Well, here we are today in our first day of discussion of Call Me Anna and I've not been able to get into SeniorNet itself for almost 24 hours, so let's wing this a bit till we all get up to speed.

We've all heard about the "child star," and how awful a life that is.

As I read this book, I had many conflicting thoughts.

I guess my first thought is: What on earth was the MATTER with her mother? What was she thinking of? What kind of mother is this??

Your thoughts?

Ginny

I had a lot of mixed feelings and unanswered questions in the begining and as the book progressed. It was "Interesting" throughout, but most of my questions were at best only partially clarified with rather open-ended answers.

Best

LJ

It appeared to me that Patty Duke has really been a victim most of her life. Think it just indicates that the outside appearance of people in the public eye is often much different from the reality of their life situations.

I had never heard of the Rosses. I wondered as I read the book how many other child stars were as manipulated and controlled as was Anna. Considering her behavior as she grew up it is a wonder that she ever found any work.

What misery her mental illness has caused her in her life.

I have always felt her work was excellent and will watch movies or series that she is in because I have felt that they usually represented quality work.

Larry

Larry, You are such a tender-hearted soul, but I grew up "Down-town" and have some inbred reservations about taking autobiography at face value.

There is no doubt of her acting ability, and I'm certain you are correct in assuming that she was taken advantage of, but aren't we all ?

Just for the sake of arguement, let's ask: Where would she have been without the Rosses ? Were the expenses of her training and currying as well as her upkeep not of significant value ?, Wasn't the income supporting her Mother too ? Did she do any better managing her own affairs ? (Did she even do as well ?)

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LJ

It looks like it's a trio of us here, and I think this is a great opportunity to really talk about this type of book.

For instance, do celebrity biographies have anything at all to say to us?

Why read one?

I love Patty Duke and appreciate her talent. She is a gorgeous woman.

Yet as I read this, I kept having more questions than anwswers.

If this had been YOUR life, would you have written this book?

What are we to get out of it?

I don't know enough about this manic depressive thing or schizoid symptoms to know, but when did she get medication and what disease does she have?

And as far as the Rosses go, why did she need them at all? How did they become attracted or attached to her in the first place? Surely they weren't there at her birth?

Help!

Ginny

Ginny, There's nothing wrong with the genre. Some of them are good and some leave us with a lot of foggy questions and foggier answers. An example of a realy GOOD one was the David Nivin duo. One of the things that made it so good was his extensive lifetime notes and acquaintance with so many well known and interesting people. Add this to his natural sense of humor and writing ability, and you have a GOOD autobiography.

CALL ME ANNA is definitely not a three dimensional story; in fact its more one dimensional than anything else. The questions about her supposed mental illness are never clearly answered and in fact never clearly stated. From this story no reliable diagnosis could be made, and it often takes very little to achieve a pretty clear diagnosis, e.g. "Into The Wild"

So far as her husbands are concerned, except for the one "Fly-by-night" wedding, the men in her life are presented with surprising ambivalance.

I simply think that here we have one side of a probably very complex story. It IS interesting, but not realy convincing. It reminds me of a friend who having read an autobiography of Armand Hammer then having read his Biography, discovered two different people.

Best

LJ

LJ!! I didn't see this post, there must be something wrong with the software somewhere, so sorry.

Well, in the David Niven, 1) he was a good writer, and 2) he had lots of amusing anecdotes to say about the famous and 3) he was a person who would never say a negative word about a friend.

I remember in high school that the quickest way to be popular was to have a good word for everybody, no strong opinions, and to be everybody's friend.

I guess Bill Clinton, in a way, reflects how to be popular, just say whatever everybody wants to hear....kind of "love the one you're with..." sort of philosophy.

I'm wondering seriously if we want to have many more celeb bios? Now the Dean Martin Frank Sinatra Rat Pack thing in on tv tonight, and there's a new movie of Dean Martin coming out, because everybody, I guess, can't believe he WAS so shallow?

Must be more to the man?

Personally, I do believe that an actor, now not speaking of Dean Martin, who was primarily a singer, but an actor, who makes his living from pretending to be something he's not, somewhere has a deep feeling of inadequacy more than most people. Elsewise why pretend?

For all the horror of Patty Duke's situation, she's continued in Show Business. Why not be an economist or banker?

And her children are entering it, too. And I hate to say it, but she DID seem a little Ross like there at one point. She'd probably hate me for saying it, but I found myself saying, "uh oh, what's THIS?"

I'm not sure whether it's the childhood so much or just Show Business itself which creates such problems. A lot of people can't handle fame or success, and you can see why sometimes. I just read where, is it John Madden, whom I do enjoy, has just signed a $32 million dollar contract for the next few years. $32 million. Something is wrong when anybody associated with athletics is making that kind of money. I like Madden, and applaud his being that valuable, but all the salaries for athletes and show biz types are skewed, it seems to me, and I think we're feeding that with our interest, and when I finish the Dino I may not read another celeb bio. (Except that I just bought the expose on ice skating, so here we go again).

Ginny

Hahahahha! Ella has just informed me that nobody can post here except the hosts, and that's why we three are chatting entre nous!

Now, I hope more people can get in and will get in and say what they think about this book and celeb bios in general.

Ginny

I keep trying to analyze what's missing in this story. It would devolve down to an assumption that she hasn't had a very interesting life, but I suspect that a "Biographer" would have come up with a whole nother story.

Best

LJ

There - you fixed it, Ginny, and I hope you do get others interested. As I said in the Library, I skimmed this book once upon a time for what she had to say about Lithium and her manic-depression.

I've about given up on celeb's bios; very few of them are interesting. David Niven's was an exception and I remember enjoying Michael Caine's. But for the most part they are boring and not worth the time. Did like K. Graham's book, but she would not qualify as a celeb I don't think.

Read a review in today's paper about a new biography (which are usually better than autobios) by Ken Cuthbertson on the life of Emily "Mickey" Hahn who wrote 52 books, fiction and nonfiction, on subjects ranging from Chinese politics to animal communication. Hahn schmoozed with Dorothy Parker, hung out at D.H.Lawrence's ranch in N.M. and took her infant daughter for a checkup by Dr. Benjamin Spock; she earned a degree in mining engineering at the Univ. of Wisconsin, the first woman to ever accomplish that feat, etc. She also wrote for awhile for The New Yorker.

Think I'll look up that book.

I'm about 100 pages into the "DINO" book. His biographer is somewhat "Florid" and the language often is "Vernacular" (Modern?), but certainly no effort is apparant to make him a "Lovable" character.

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LJ

LJ: That's about where I stopped. Is there any reason to keep on with this one? It seems we have exhausted the Anna and I fear for the Dino.

Let's have a vote here, I know we keep doing this, but let's vote: how many want to read Dino (I know, I know we talked about this, but we're NOT talking in here??)

So is ANNA dead??

Ginny

The only reason to continue Anna is because we've read it and would NOT recommend it to others.

The Dino might be of interest to someone who emulates or is excited by successful trash. After 200 pages, I still haven't found any "Redeeming Social Value" in his life. It IS a shame because the biographer is quite an articulate and indeed thorough writer who deserves better for his efforts than the subject he has chosen.

We seem to be suffering a drop similar to the world Stock Markets.

Best

LJ

Ginny & LJ, I have the Dino book out of the library (for the second time) and still haven't read a page of it. I would agree to take a pass on it. I did read the Anna book but have nothing else to write about regarding it so would also vote that we declare this discussion completed and retire it to the archives.

Larry

From my viewpoint, you have made a wise decision. I vote for forgetting celebrities for awhile - we ordinary people are much more interesting, haha.

OK, so it's a wash, this one and the Dino. Who was it who was going to rejoin us for the Dino? Want to write her, if I can.

The TITAN, about Rockefeller, would be a better one when it gets into paperback, I think. Walter read it and said it was great.

Ginny

Titans, Robber Barons and Captains of Industry are much the same Ilk as celebrities. I should think a good biography of someone with a story of contribution to history or society rather than to his/her own aggrandizement would be much more graciously received.

Consider "Admiral of the Amazon" the story of John Randolph Tucker, his confederate colleagues, and Peru, by David P. Werlich. OR

"William Wallace Brave Heart" by James Mackay. OR EVEN

"In The Forests of the Night" by John Simpson (This one is more True Adventure), being the story of a Peruvian trek and encounters with terrorism, Drug-Running, and Military Oppression.

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LJ

I may just be reacting to those 200 pages of Dino or a Bio of J. Paul Getty I read a while back. I'll get over it.

Best

LJ

hahahhaha, Well, I guess we can say that neither of us was entranced with the Dino, LJ! hahahahah.

When you have to force yourself to turn the page, you know you're in deep trouble.

But we are such a society of celeb watchers. I think the press doesn't help much, nor the news.

Poor Dino sure didn't look like much as far as I read it.

Ginny