Robby

But east-west was a different matter, and countless dreadful shipwrecks resulted because they didn't know where they were. Along comes some (before Sobel) forgotten clock-tinkerer who said, in effect, "Hey, if you know the time in Greenwich, and you know the time where you are (determined by the Sun's highest position, noon), then you can figure how far east or west you are from Greenwich."

A problem was that the clocks of the time used pendulums, and of course pendulums are useless on a pitching sea. So how do you determine what time it is in Greenwich?

A good yarn, and true! Wish I had known of it when I was at Greenwich, where I think there are examples of the tinkerer's work.

It was said that he, all alone and often dismissed as a crackpot, solved one of the great problems of his time.

In #568 at the Non-fiction General site, I expressed frustration at the slow pace at which public libraries come up with books slated for discussion here. I'm not willing to buy a pig in a poke. Hope to join you, but that's doubtful.

Also, I happen to be an atheist, which for me may complicate matters further regarding this nun and her father.

I do miss library card files; all you needed to know in order to find or reserve a book was on one little card. No searching, clicking, etc.

I often don't go downtown in our Chicago suburb for a week or two. Today I went twice--the first time for the bank and library, where couldn't find the Galileo call number. The second time, I went to the eye doctor, then (armed with call number) decided to head for the library to try again for Galileo. But this time I didn't have my library card because (to order a hold from my home computer), I had taken it out of my wallet. Some days are like that.

I'm also dealing with a computer that's only a week old. But I've had something nearly identical for two years, so it shouldn't be a problem. So far it isn't, but the printer is. They're not on speaking terms.

The year 1564 was a very good one. Shakespeare was born about two months after Galileo.

I had no idea that Galileo invented so many things.  He was granted a patent on an irrigation device (pg. 22).     In the course of teaching military architecture and fortification to private students, he invented his first commercial scientific instrument in 1597, called the geometric and military compass.  (Picture on page 27.)  He refined the "spyglass" thus inventing the telescope and the rest, as they say "is history!"

This poor soul was thankful to his creator while he attained the height of his glory.   He gained favor with the Pope, Bishops and Cardinals.  He was held in high esteem by mathmaticians and inventors as he debated  and reinforced his arguments.   Still, it was felt that he trespassed on "holy ground."

I was very impressed with his education and election to the Lyncean Academy.

All sorts of questions come to mind. If the standards of the day made her unmarriageable, was a convent the only alternative? If she was anywhere nearly as bright as the author says, could she not teach, perhaps at a girls' school. Or were women not allowed to teach, and girls not considered worthy of being taught?

Was Virginia asked what she thought about going into a convent, or was she simply told? Was Galileo just trying to get rid of her and her sister? (I don't blame our author for not delving into these questions, most of whose answers are unknowable.)

Interesting that she, in a life of poverty and seclusion, sends letters consoling him when ill health or dark clouds descend.

IMHO, the author has done an outstandinfg job portraying and presenting to us Galileo, the man - the inventor, the genius; his times, the conflicts, the awesome power of the Catholic Church and the terrors of the Inquisition, and all of that interspersed with those old-fashioned-sounding, reverent, adoring letters from his eldest daughter. I think Dava Sobel was positively ingenious in conveying to us Galileo's story and his legacy for mankind, in plain readable language, but framed and complemented by the letters of Maria Celeste. I believe this is of enormous significance - it amounts to a centuries-delayed acknowledgement of and admiration for a daughter, a nun, invisible for all practical purposes ----- in other words, only a woman.

If I may say, we should not compare the style of Mary Celeste's letters to our own or our parents' conventions--- we really can't. Rather, let's think back to, say, the Pilgrims here in Massachusetts in 1620 and wonder how many women there were even able to (or had the time to) write --- let alone letters of such depth beyond the quotidian ?

Given the times, what other choice did Galileo have than to put his illegitimate daughters into a convent ? One can't help wonder, of course, whether he realized what that confinement really meant. Nor are we latter-day readers all that sure whether the second daughter, Livia/Arcangela, took to the cloistered life as well as Maria Celeste appaers to have done.

Isn't it simply unbelievable, unfair, not to mention ironic, that Vincenzio, illegitimate just like his sisters, was legitimized by fiat from the archduke of Tuscany ---obviously solely because he was a male child ?

Still, as much outrage as we might feel at this time, we might consider what other possible choice a girl born of the middle classes had at that time, in Italy or anywhere in Europe.

And as impatient as we may be, let's not forget that there was a time right here in this country when higher education was thought to be bad, even dangerous for women !

From all we know and read, Galileo certainly was of an upper class family, but his (or anyone else's) illegitimate offspring were in a much more uncertain, even precarious social position at that time-- in other words, a hard lot to deal with.

I am glad the internet has given voice (or space) to the renowned Swiss historian and critic Jacob Burckhardt (1818-97), who was a Professor in Basel and author of "Kultur der Renaissance in Italien" (Culture of the Renaissance in Italy); "Griechische Kulturgeschichte (A Greek Cultural History), and "Weltgeschichtliche Betrachtungen" (freely translated by yours truly as 'Reflections on World History').

But I suppose devout Catholics like Galileo and his daughters might consider life in a convent desirable. After all, it should go a long way toward assuring eternal life in paradise.

As you noted, the author, Sobel, has a great talent for seeking out and telling us about previously-neglected people in history. I read her brilliant "Longitude" (can anyone imagine a duller title?) about the ingenious nerd who developed a way (at a time when clocks supposedly needed pendulums) to keep track of time on a pitching sea. His name was Harrison (not sure of first name!) and for years he was widely dismissed as a crackpot.

He solved one of the great scientific problems of his time: How to determine longitude at sea. Previously, countless ships and lives were lost because captains didn't know where they were.

Robby

Robby

"I believe that the intention of Holy Writ was to persuade men of the truths necessary for salvation," Galileo continued his letter to Castelli, "such as neither science nor any other means could render credible, but only the voice of the Holy Spirit. But I do not think it necessary to believe that the same God who gave us our senses, our speech, our intellect, would have put aside the use of these, to teach us instead such things as with their help we could find out for ourselves, particularly in the case of these sciences of which there is not the smallest mention in the Scriptures; and, above all, in astronomy, of which so little notice is taken that the names of none of the planets are mentioned. Surely if the intention of the sacred scribes had been to teach the people astronomy, they would not have passed over the subject so completely."

In fact, the purest Italian is spoken in Tuscany (nella Toscana, as the region is known), purest because it is free from any regional dialect. It is no accident that several language schools for foreigners were founded in and around Florence (Firenze, in Italian) after World War II. The daughter of one of my old friends in Washington heads one of them.

Another famous son of Tuscany was of course Dante Alighieri (1265-1321), author of The Divine Comedy. He wrote it in Italian, and that is significant.

Sorry, I don't mean to digress.

The man was a genius. With the numerous 'indispositions' he had it is astounding what he was able to accomplish -- the multi-page correspondence, the meticulous drawings and notes; the research and the experiments. It is mind-boggling.

As do nearly all the rest of us! I see no problem there. Nor, I think, do you.

Nellie, I agree with you that Maria Celeste is every bit as worthy of admiration as Galileo, her father. She was indeed a chip of the old block while the other two children, Livia/Arcangela and Vincenzio, were not, from all indications. Maria Celeste was obviously a gifted writer and every bit as expressive as her father, whose ear she clearly had. I believe Galileo and Maria Celeste were very much alike in temperament.

Maria Celeste's deep, abiding faith was comparable to her father's unshakable reliance on the accuracy of his scientific findings --- even though he ultimately, inevitably ran afoul of the much feared Inquisition -- despite all his eloquence and tact (and after cooling his heels and biding his time too !)

The hardships of cloistered nuns, especially of the Poor Clares as described in "our" book, are unimaginable at this day and age. I was raised in a predominantly Catholic region but we were not Catholic. So I knew all about processions, holy days and saints, how to greet a priest when you met one in the street, and, later, from the history of the Middle Ages about the importance of the monasteries as seats of knowledge.

Then I went to Assisi, in the region of Umbria, and saw the tiny room, just a cell really, in which St. Francis had lived. It was stifling in the September heat, the bed merely a small box as for a child. People were smaller at his time, I was told. This experience was an epiphany for me.

But specifically to the point, the last sentence on page 44,, the author says : Fully 50 percent of the daughters of Florentine patrician families spent at least part of their lives within convent walls. and on to the top of page 45 :

Galileo's sisters had eventually left the convent for holy matrimony, but he probably foresaw no such future for his daugthers because of the condition of their birth. Indeed, THE CONDITIONS OF THEIR BIRTH - illegitimacy. One wonders whether this erudite man, justly admired for his multiple talents and astonishing discoveries, ever had the slighest twinge of guilt for having consigned his daughters to life in the convent, particularly one as harsh as the Poor Clares, which they could never leave. Or whether he felt any guilt later when he made his (successful) entreaties to the duke to have the son legitimized ? But there we have it; the girls were shut in the convent, the male legitimized. A double standard ? You bet it is. But a reality nonetheless.

As infuriating as it is, the double standard still existed when I was in Italy. People would gush over a newborn male ("un maschio", they cried --that's pronounced 'maskio') more than they would over a girl -- and what does that say ? Aren't there contemporary parallels even(China, India ?)

As is plain from her letters, Maria Celeste was resilient, resourceful, and strong of character, which can hardly be said of Galileo's second daughter, Livia, renamed Arcangela. That one had recurrent problems with unspecified ailments and dark moods (we might call depressions now). As far as is known, she never wrote to her father. Is it remotely possible that she resented him for putting her into a convent at such a tender age ? We will never know, of course,

It was no coincidence that Galileo's father would send him to the monastery for advanced instruction, because that's precisely where knowledge resided from the Middle Ages, in the monasteries.

The father withdrew the son after Galileo had become a novice hoping to become a monk himself (pg 17). Vincenzio took him home, blaming an inflammation in the youth's eyes that required medical attention. Galileo was still a "youth". The author goes on to say that money more likely decided the issue. ---

Suor Maria Celeste, musically talented like most members of her family, also directed the choir from time to time and taught the novices how to sing Gregorian chant. In her capacity as the convent's apothecary, she assisted the visiting doctor, fabricated remedies in pill or tonic form, and nursed the sick nuns in the infirmary, where Suor Arcangela often occupied a bed. Although Suor Maria Celeste, who spoke for both of them in her letters, never directly accused Suor Arcangela of malingering, she sometimes alluded to a hysterical component in her sister's complaints. The younger daughter's moodiness and taciturnity may have characterized her nature from childhood. Or the traits may have developed in reaction to cloistered life, which had been her father's choice and not her own.

Women were subordinated to men at that time- and not only in Italy - those were the facts. The men fought constant, countless wars; the women kept the home fires burning and nurtured the children. In fact, the 30-year war (which is mentioned in our book) raged across large parts of Europe from 1618 to 1648, in Galileo's lifetime. Italy was not involved. By the time of the Westphalian Peace Treaty in 1648, Galileo had been dead for 6 years.

The life of Catholic Sisters has changed, as Betty pointed out. Few wear the habit any more; conditions are not as rigid as they once were, except possibly in Italy and in Switzerland. Remember, the Swiss Guards in their traditional medieval garb ? They have been entrusted with guarding the Pope for centuries.

The role of Catholic religious women has gradually expanded, especially in this country. In the next town over there is also an Episcopal convent, where I went once on a Saturday retreat. The Mother House is in Boston. The Sisters are reclusive and still wear a habit - in marked contrast to their Catholic sisters in another nearby town, who easily blend in the local communities in which and for which they work tirelessly.

The Episcopal Church is part of the Anglican Communion "founded" by a defiant Henry VIII. when the pope refused to grant him a divorce from his first wife, Catherine of Aragon. Henry "split" and went merrily on to marry 5 more wives, the sixth of whom (Catherine Parr) actually outlived him. Well, the Episcopal Church DOES ordinate women priests, and we have had Suffragan Bishop Barbara Harris in the Boston diocese for a decade. Our Bishop Shaw is a monk. By contrast, the Catholic Church still does not allow women to assume priestly duties, i.e. celebrate Mass or distribute the Eucharist.

I apologize for the digression. Let's get back to Galileo, the remarkable man, and his equally remarkable eldest daughter.

P.S. Nellie, I noticed your post while making corrections in mine. Your points are very well taken. More soon.

That war was fought for religious as well as political reasons: land foremost among them. It is not necessary to go into the wars between the Danes and the Swedes. Suffice it to say that by the time of the Thirty-Years' War Sweden had become a hereditary monarchy; the clergy was subordinated to the state. The Lutheran faith had been established in the 1520s.

King Gustav II of the house of Vasa actively intervened in the Thirty-Years' War as an ally of France and is known to have traversed Germany with his armies as far south as Bavaria. He was killed in 1632 in the battle of Lützen (the subject of Schiller's drama WALLENSTEIN). Gustav's daughter Christina (1626-1689) was crowned queen in 1644. Ten years later she abdicated and moved to Rome where she lived out her life as a devout Catholic, which was of enormous importance then in view of the fact that her father and grandfather had been champions of Protestantism. Greta Garbo (fittingly) portrayed the enigmatic queen on the screen.

Even though Italy was spared that war, I thought the turmoil of the times was worth mentioning/imagining. Thank you for your indulgence.

Whatever Suor Maria Celeste's request, Galileo never failed to fulfill it, precipitating a flood of appreciation in return. Suor Maria Celeste's word for the loving indulgence that characterized her father's attentiveness--amorevolezza--appears more than twenty times in her 124 surviving letters, thanking him for some recent act of thoughtfulness or generosity toward herself, her sister, or someone else in the convent. Thus, all the while that Galileo was inventing modern physics, teaching mathematics to princes, discovering new phenomena among the planets, publishing science books for the general public, and defending his bold theories against establishment enemies, he was also buying thread for Suor Luisa, choosing organ music for Mother Achillea, shipping gifts of food, and supplying his homegrown citrus fruits, wine, and rosemary leaves for the kitchen and apothecary at San Matteo.

But in addition to that, Galileo was apparently unable to refuse his relatives, notably his brother, who wrote in 1627 from Munich and "invited" his wife and 5 of their 8 children to visit Galileo in Florence for an "unspecified length of time". The children "would be an amusement for you and a comfort to her" (!) (page 157). Anna Chiara arrived in due time with ALL of the children; "little rabblerousers", Suor Maria Celeste called them. One wonders who cooked for them and who cleaned. They stayed for almost a year, we read.

It appears that Maria Celeste was blessed with a more resilient temperament than her sister and by nature more cheerful. And it is easy enough to conclude that Arcangela did NOT make "the best" of her situation, did NOT become reconciled with the inevitable. Vincenzio similarly was not a prize- at least not initially. One wonders why the 21-year old had such "a bitter hatred of the clerical state". Alas, we won't ever know for sure. (read on --)

There is no doubt that Maria Celeste loved, admired and even worshipped her father (perhaps in the extreme ?). That is undeniable on the basis of her letters. I must say I cringed at the obsequiousness, the flattery; the poor young woman was clearly uncomfortable having to ask for money time and again, and she said as much. But she did succeed in her pleas: Galileo did come through every time. I agree with Betty, she knew how to "handle" him. But I don't mean that in a derogatory sense at all; rather, she did what was necessary for survival, and not hers alone.Yes, she was resilient.

From all we read we know she had an abiding faith, she was principled = she wanted things in the convent done "the right" way. Methodical, we would call it today, punctilious, and by gum why not ? More power to her, I say.

And here we are, in the 21st century, wondering how this brilliant man, whose discoveries revolutionized scientific thinking, could have been so blind to, and so totally oblivious of, his daughters' frame of mind, and of what HE had done by consigning them to the convent. As I asked before, is it possible he felt - well, if not actually guilty,at least a little uncomfortable ? There were other convents nearby; why did it have to be with the barefoot Poor Clares?

And here is this adoring, respectful daughter, bleaching collars, sewing, doing needlework and such for him without complaint, asking for more, in fact; even re-writing his work in beautiful calligraphy, and asking for more of that, too ---- There is no doubt the young woman had talent and intellectual capacity; why, she was called upon to COMPOSE (not only to writer over) letters for the Abess.

I wish we knew more of Galileo as a young man BEFORE he became renowned, BEFORE his writing and daily doings were worthy of being recorded. What about the children's mother ? Yes we know her name. Yes we know she married later. But how old was SHE ? She was Venetian, it seems. He was 36 when Maria Celeste, the oldest, was born, no longer an impetuous youth !

Nellie, it was class -, is what it was, then-- and for centuries thereafter. The NAME of the family, also its ranking among comparable peers, is what counted and opened doors. Men did not marry below their class; women rarely married "up", but it did happen, for example in the case of Lola Montez (please check this one out; I promise you it's worth it). In some cases so-called "morganatic" marriages were sanctioned between a member of the nobility and a commoner (especially when she was beautiful). But by and large, the barrier could not be crossed.

One more thing : I believe father and daughter shared a commendable trait : integrity in their respective pursuits. He believed in the truth of his scientific knowledge (*) just as fervently as she believed in the Church and her duties. The author could not have found a more approprite subtitle : A Historical Memoir of Science, Faith and Love .

(*) we will see how that turned out.

However, I think our modern 20th and 21st century modus vivendi differs from Galileo's time and the following centuries. THEN there was class distinction among the SAME ethnic populace .

NOW we have increasing numbers of immigrants to this country from other cultures and different ethnic backgrounds.

Essentially we are concerned with a different century and a different locale.

The immigrants are no exception in this quest for material possessions. But not all of them have done well. In the northern part of my state, Massachusetts, large numbers of Cambodians, Vietnamese and Thais were resettled after the Vietnam conflict. Many remain unacculturated, unable to understand our society. The crime rate is high and poverty prevalent.

In Galileo's time and long thereafter it was the patrician background that counted; money was not then the force it is today. I also agree with you that Galileo was essentially a good compassionate man. He knew the conventions of his day and he handled the illegitimacy of his children as best he could at that time.

Bellosguardo MeriJo, il guardo and lo sguardo mean "view"; and 'Bellosguardo' means 'beautiful view', as you know. If there are negative connotations attached to 'lo sguardo', they they were possibly regional and must have been added later. Please share further informtion on this. I will in turn quote one of the most inspiring poems I know, L'Infinito , Canto XII from Le poesie di Giacomo Leopardi where that word occurs.

Thank you

My love for language and history sometimes gets the better of me. Sorry.

The current chaplain attending San Matteo exemplified the crowd of uneducated, unethical clerics who infiltrated ecclesiastical ranks at almost every level in seventeenth century Italy, making a mockery of religious life wherever they came to roost.

Dava Sobel has done a magnificent job, and I look forward to the discussion of the next two chapters of the book.

With the benefit of hindsight and the help of the psychologists among us we might come to consider Suor Maria Celeste's fate and the role she played in a different light.

And yes, I agree that Maria Celeste herself was not "approached" in this manner; frankly, I don't think any erring uneducated priest (as she called them) would have tried. She was too much a person of respect and authority. Nor would she have tolerated it.

We are reading a historical memoir and are being shown as intimate a portrait as is possible after 400 years of a man who forever changed, even revolutionized, perceptions of the entire planetary system.

Though we may have reservations (and feel justified anger) about the consignment of Galileo's daughters to a convent, and though Galileo's scientific explanations may appear to some a bit too technical, we must appreciate this book because it gives us a well-researched look into the life (or what is known about it) of a justly famous person, a man who was not so different from his non-famous brethren, then or now. Let's follow the thread of the narrative to the coclusion.

From the window of the room Galileo chose for his study, he could see the Convent of San Matteo just a stone's throw away, downhill to the left of the vineyard.

Poverty remained a central tenet of the Rule, rendering all Poor Clares dependent on alms. Suor Maria Celeste perforce appealed frequently to her father for financial help, though she found this duty embarrassing.

Antoinette's point about the title is well taken. In fact, the reader can justly infer from the title that the narrative is about the daughter of the famous man, at least as much about her as about him, if not more so. But that's not what we have here,is it ? I hasten to add that this is not meant to be a complaint or criticism.

The narrative is uneven (for want of a better word) simply because much more is known about the father than the daughter. The author herself said in the interview to which we were given a link (thank you again) that she was surprised to learn that Galileo HAD a daughter (much less two daughters and a son).

Early on I said here that the author uses an ingenious angle by introducing the daughter, revealing to the reader the human side of the great man, giving her a well-earned, if belated, recognition of a life spent wthout complaint behind cloistered walls.

It is only natural that we look at the lives of Galileo and his daughter from our perspective, and how could we do anything else ? After four centuries, profound societal changes have taken place, and at least in the western world women have made considerable progress since. But let's stop to consider how long it took Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton to get their message across, and compare that with the status of women depicted in the works of Edith Wharton (notably The House of Mirth) !

Betty, I agree with you and I daresay that, though no one can be sure, our random speculations on Galileo and his daughter have the ring of truth. Furthermore, it is certainly possible to gauge Suor Maria Celeste's personality from her letters :

From all appearances she adjusted to life in the convent much better than her sister Arcangela (of whom, regrettably, we never learn more than that she had continuous unspecified maladies, and that Suor Maria Celeste at one point came short of hinting in a letter to the father that Aracangela was malingering). Maria Celeste gave of herself unstintingly, she was the resident pharmacist and a tireless fundraiser, wrote long, regular missives to her father, was his staunch supporter, copied in flawless calligraphy papers for Galileo's Dialogues, composed (!) and wrote letters for the abbess (!!), did countless good deeds large and small for everybody, including members of the extended family, notably her brother's children. Her life was full, perhaps too much so, considering the state of her own health, of which we learn rather late in the day.

From the very beginning I have had a problem, as some of you did, with the fact that the girls where shipped off to San Matteo at too early an age to have understood what it meant to be cloistered. For life. We know that it was common for upper class (!) Catholic girls of the time to enter a convent for education and later emerge to get married. That was true for someone in Galileo's own extended family; alas, we are not told whether she was in fact at San Matteo. For illegitimate girls it may well have been the only solution. But why did it have to be San Matteo ?

The book gives us the background of the foundress of the Poor Clares and quotes some of the order's rules. There is no question the rules and practices were strict and restrictive (a grate between the nuns and any visitors, e.g.). But Suor Maria Celeste eagerly embraced and followed them without (apparently) ever rebelling (we are not sure how Suor Arcangela felt). Maria Celeste was meticulous, conscientious, punctilious - that is plain from her letters - so of course she would mention a flagrant contravention of rules and practices, such as the liberties taken or attempted by not properly-trained (uneducated, she called them) priests who came to San Matteo to deliver the Eucharist e.g. But one cannot help wonder whether the (educated) friars Maria Celeste called for would have been any different.

Regarding Maria Celeste's letters to her father : I have commented before on my impression of the reverential, adoring, effusive, almost obsequious tone of the quoted letters. It is the merit of Dava Sobel to have provided the first translation into English of those letters, and we have to trust her. No doubt there was filial love, devotion and mutual dependence. Indeed, as MeriJo already said, Italian families have always been especially loving and cohesive.

At Galileo's time, illegitimacy was an irreparable mark against girls, though a boy could be made legitimate, as Galaileo's son was by ducal decree upon the father's petition for such. Why ? Because he was a boy. A double standard ? You bet.

From all we know about Galileo, and not only from this book, he was a pioneer in the sciences and mathematics, a thinker, a doer, a gifted writer able to clearly express what he meant; a man who had many admirers and followers outside of Italy and is justly known and famous for his discoveries. He was kind to his extended family (a softie, we would say now) whenever called upon to help out.

But I still wonder, did it ever occur to this great man what it meant for his obviously intelligent, gifted eldest daughter to be hidden for life in a convent as harsh as one of the Poor Clares ? Was the man blind to the obvious ? Did it matter to him ? Suor Arcangela, the second daughter, is a shadowy presence in this book, and the legitimized Vincenzio seems to have "disappointed" the father at times to the point where Suor Maria Celeste took it upon herself to step in as moderator (see the later letters).

Still more nuances to be discussed.

your post brought back such happy memories for me because I love Italy with all my heart. I studied and I lived there, and for some time in Venice = La Serenissima, as the city is also called. Erica Jong wrote a book by that name, I remember.

Though this has nothing to do with the book and our discussion, may I mention that a dear friend of mine and her husband, as well as his brothers and their wives, have been on an extended trip to Italy (not their first) for family reunions in several locations, for the first time all together ! (tutti insieme).

When that was over, my friend and her husband repaired to Positano and had a ball. Positano is located on the peninsula extending into the gulf of Salerno (il golfo di Salerno), about half-way between Salerno and Amalfi, south east of Naples.

She kept me informed of all the goings-on, their incomparable culinary experiences, and the fact that they met people from Boston there (!). Small world. Today she said again "I don't want to go home". She was a bit concerned because of an announced 24-hour rail strike (called sciopero in Italian), and she is none too happy that they have to use the bus back to Rome whence they depart for home on Sunday.

Her joy transports me back in time, and I too am happy, vicariously.

Thank you for your indulgence.

Allan-Olney, Mary. The Private Life of Galileo, Compiled Principally from His Correspondence and That of His Eldest Daughter, Sister Maria Celese, London: Macmillan 1870 is the first book on the exhaustive list.

What is one to make of the implications ?

Therefore it was a surprise to learn from the link Dave gave us that in a book published in 1870, an English translation of Maria Celeste's letters (or excerpts thereof) was then extant.

The BN editors were apparently not aware of this - hence their claim that Dava Sobel was the FIRST to translate the 124 letters. That was my point, the only point.

I have said from the outset that I admire and respect the author's work and the scholarly way in which she has presented the story within the historical context, while making the book accessible and absorbing. Her chapter notes beginning on page 383, where she meticulously cited quotes and their author(s), and the translator(s) of letters as they appear in each chapter, are proof of her tremendous research, her linguistic competence and professionalism.

Even so, BN's statement that Sobel was the FIRST to translate Maria Celeste's letter into English from the original Italian does not correspond to the facts.

The information given on pp. 369-74 "In Galileo's Time" is valuable and of great interest. Note that the Index of Prohibited Books, the Index librorum prohibitorum, was not abolished until 1966 after the Second Vatican Council.

I will pop in again before we sum up and answer # 159, but may I say now how much I enjoyed our discussion here. MeriJo, I wish you the best for the completion of your refurbishing project.

As I said earlier, the author has ingeniously honored a remarkable woman who worked behind the scenes, as we would say today, in the obscurity and under the severe restrictions of a convent. But her simple life, cut short, turns out to have been a triumph.

I can "see" her giving succor to the father in his exile, virtually under house arrest, starved for intellectual conversation, not allowed visitors. And in doing so, she spent all she had, all her reserves, until none were left for herself.

Isn't it fitting that the remains of father and daughter rest together in the same sepulchre even though"even now, no inscription on Galileo's much-visited tomb in Santa Croce announces the presence of Suor Maria Celeste." (pg. 368)