Well, LJ, here you are!! All set up and ready to go! Will you be starting with Child ?

I must say I have never read an autobiography which had so much to say about Adolph Hitler that wasn't about Hitler.

Now, what was your take on this strange thing?

Ginny

Well, For want of a better approach, lets try 50 pages a week. For openers, can anybody tell us about the connection between James Joyce and Hitler/Nazis, and the background of Joyce's execution?

O'Toole and I may have been born in the same month and year, and at times I can understand his allusions to Hitler and Mussolini, but for the most part they seem extraneous (to me). I think perhaps we must consider the possibility that there was considerable Pro-Nazi sentiment in England at the time (were it not for Wallace Simpson, the King might have been a Nazi)

My third major question is whether one ascribes to the philosophy that "The act is not criminal unless the mind is criminal" (P.50)

Best

LJ

There are now two ways to get to this discussion. From Ginny's post #132 in upcoming discussions under American Sphinx. Two other clickables go only to an old upcoming discussions file, These are under "Biography Book Club" and under "Coming Attractions."

Best

LJ

LJ: the one in Biography is fixed and am going to fix the other: everyone can still get in by perusing the Table of Contents of the B&L. I will request a banner about it asap.

Ginny

So far, all but one are working. That "Front Page" is so fragmented that its hard to explain which one ISN'T working, but its the "Up-coming" selections two blocks to the right of the "Bio Autobio" block. I think you're on the right track.

Best

LJ

I'll apologize for introducing a digression so early in the day. BUT:

On the assumption that American Sphinx readers might also be tuning in to this biography, I wanted to post the fact that anyone who wants to replicate part of the magnificent gardens at Monticello can now purchase seeds of the historic flowers through the Thomas Jefferson Center for Historic Plants. In the Michigan area, one of the most important nurseries is carrying them and I suspect this is true for other metropolitan areas as well.

We visited Monticello in the 1960's and what I remember most about the outdoor plantings are the marvelous scents, not so much of the flowers as of the herb gardens, and most of all, the boxwood hedges. I discovered that boxwood is like catnip for me - it just about makes me drunk and I sniff at it until I get an allergic reaction. I've tried to grow it here but it doesn't flourish in Michigan winters. But I can still (having a very sensitive sniff-memory) close my eyes and feel the humid sunlight at Monticello and smell the unique fragrance that's like the world's most delicious vegetable soup cooking in the sun.

The gardens have been reconstructed and are more fully developed than they were when we visited them

Now, on with O'Toole.

Ros

Might as well digress. I strongly suspect that I'm the only one who has read or who plans to read these two books. (Wonder what happened to the ladies who recommended them).

Best

LJ

No, now, I've read the Apprentice almost all the way thru, enjoyed his facility with words, loved his starting with the house, loved the reminiscences. He writes like he looks, and have seen him on a TV ad lately for CBS: he's kind of a will o the whisp.

Now, the child is another matter entirely. Never "got" the Hitler thing, don't understand why his childhood should be so intricately enmeshed with recollections or mentions of Hitler. I'm learning stuff, but it's distracting.

Love boxwoods and brick: the smells are really intoxicating and nostalgic for me. I bought some of George Washington's ivy on a trip to Mount Vernon once and it has taken over everything. Every time somebody wants to cut it, I scream, NO NO that's George Wahington's IVY!!

No one but me is impressed....hahahahahahah

Ginny

Ginny, I'm impressed with the Ivy, but like you, not with the books. Of the 50 or so books I've read in the past year these are two of the worst.

As you point out, there is an inordinate amount of Hitler Vignettes in "The Child" much of it surprisingly empathetic. The experiences in a "Book-makeing" family are definitely "Pedestrian" (Mine are MUCH better).

The Apprentice was slightly useful for it's description of the Acting School, but I daresay the average well educated American High School student has had more interesting experiences and could write about them with considerably greater facility.

The reviewers of these books were probably well paid to lead us astray (And may well NOT even have read the books) I'm especially disappointed with McCort's recommendation and will studiously ignore any future recommendations by Alan Ryan of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Any thing from "People", Charles Champlin of of the Los Angeles Times Book Review, and Rhonda Koenig of New York Magazine.

WORSE STILL in "The Apprentice" there is ABSOLUTELY NO LEGEND whatsoever for the photographic illustrations.

Dull story, poorly written and even less well edited.

Best

LJ

Ginny and LJ,

What about moving on to the David Niven books. I have actually read both of them and must say I enjoyed them. I will have to rely on my memory when we discuss them since they were interlibrary loans so won't be able to get my hands on them again.

Larry

I'm almost half way through the Niven, and I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of dispensing with the O'Toole books.

Lets give anyone else who has an opinion an opportunity to agree or disagree, or for that matter to simply comment. And, lets give me an opportunity to finish reading the Niven. Some of the others also like to read ahead. These should be readily available in the public libraries and are worthy of a plan to spend six weeks in discussion. (At least a month)

Niven apparantly kept a rather detailed diary and is a self-confessed "Name-Dropper", but he had the experiences, surprising objective ability or even humility, and intelligence to make this a very worth-while read.

In spite of being British, he was NOT a pervert and during the second world war showed some genuine backbone.

I'm still fumeing about reviewers who are clearly not competant judges of literature being quoted as "Hype" for junk, and I'm astonished that McCort allowed himself to be misused in this manner.

Best

LJ

Oh, no!! are they really that bad? Bought both the O'Toole books (used)weeks ago but haven't gotten into them yet. Now guess I won't bother, I trust the judgement of the rest of you. I'll look around and try to find Niven's. Life is too short and busy to waste time on tedious books. So much for the critics' choice!

Ginny...Have you read the biography/memoir of Monty Roberts, "The Man Who Listens to Horses?", not to be confused with the "Horse Whisperer," though that story line is based on the work he's done. I highly recommend it to anyone who loves or works with horses. His childhood reminds me of Jill Conway's, only he lived in California instead of the Australian outback, but the same hard work ethic and isolation from his peers. Jo

JO! Gosh it's good to see you again, and to hear in the Walkers you're OK!! I've missed you. You can always put those books up on the Exchange, somebody might want them.

LJ: Don't beat yourself over it, the Apprentice is sort of whimsical for a little while, not bad at all. It's his strange style and his strange way of expression, just like he talks, that probably the critics were enamored of. They weren't BAD, just strange.

Now, on the Niven, I'm only going to get one, so which should it be? Have heard a world a good about them, should I do The Moon's a Balloon? And then if I like it, I can do the other? I'm a very fast reader.

No, Jo, have heard of the Man Who Listens to Horses, but thought it was the same book as the Horse Whisperer. I have just ordered it from Barnes & Noble Online on your recommendation, so will let you know. I need all the help I can get understanding our Tobo!

So, now, what's our discussion Schedule? And which of the two books will you take first? If Larry read both of them, they must be good!

Ginny

I read both and thought the Moon one the best. Will drop by and read the posts and chime in now and then as they refresh my memory. Ginny, you do read fast - and retain it, too, you are such a marvel! You post all around so know you are reading them, WOW!

What is the Walkers?

Ella: The Walkers is a folder under Healthy Habits where we walk and then record our miles, go look, we're more than half way around the "world!" on our walks, and just got t-shirts, too, which turned out very pretty. Maybe we need some B&L tees!

Ginny

Am going to click on over there and see what you are all up to!

LJ, would you please translate the following?: "In spite of being British, he was NOT a pervert...." Thanks.

Ros

It had been such a quiet week on SENIORNET that I decided to try to stir something up. No REAL offense intended. Primarily I was referring to the false affected British accent "Some people" use (I believe Mr Niven refers to it in "The Moon is a Balloon")

Best

LJ

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THANKS!

As long as there in now a post in this folder, it seems like a good time to mention that "The Moon Is A Balloon" is next up for discussion in this folder. Those of you who have read it should be ready to review.

Anyone who would enjoy a realy good story about a versitile Man's life and the people of his "Times" and "Places" (Which in large part match the lifespan of our readership) should be reading or getting ready to read NOW.

"The Moon Is Blue" and "Bring On The Empty Horses" is two books, often published as one. It is a bit long "In Toto" but the second half is a selection of thumbnail sketches and Vignettes which amplify and mostly suppliment the Autobiographical material in the first part.

I am thoroughly enjoying (And am down to the last 150 pages) of this one, and look forward to the discussion which we should start sometime in April.

Best

LJ

LJ, I agree with you that these are very interesting books and the stories and situations he talks about involve people that most of us have at least heard about. Niven had an interesting life. Am looking forward to the discussion although will have to rely on my memory as the books were interlibrary loans and have gone back.

Larry

All right everyone out there who is reading O'toole. I read his first book about two years ago and just loved it. His phrasings were delicious and I reread many because they were so delightful. As to his Hitler discussions: I felt that he was juxtaposing his life in England at that time to that of Hitler's raids. Possible??? However, I am haveing more difficulties with his second book.

Well Connie, So far nobody else who has read these books has felt they were worth discussing, but If you wish to discuss either or both of them, I will be happy to accomodate you.

We can leave this discussion up for the two of us and go on with the Niven books on another "Frequency"

Best

LJ

Connie!! Welcome, welcome, we are so glad to see you here! I agree with you about the delicious turns of phrase: in contrast, I felt the second book was richer than the first. He writes like he talks, I think, very...what's the word? Spacey. Loved the second book, but it's tough wading, I think.

The first book left me flat, I think all the Hitlerisms were just coverups for stuff he either didn't want to talk about or can't.

Ginny

Connie, I didn't mean to be discourteous. Although I didn't "Like" either book I have read them as has Ginny and one other person (who initially recommended one of them, but who has remained VERY quiet). We can certainly talk about them and I promise not to "Flame" you.

Best

LJ

I have been very busy lately, grading papers, etc. and have not gotten back for awhile. I also had trouble logging on and I'm very excited that I've found you all again. I still haven't finished the second O'toole book; got waylaid with "Cold Mountain." I have "Bring on the Empty Horses" in my bookshelf and am happy to start in later this month. My daughter read "The Man Who Loved Horses" and absolutely loved it. Would anyone be interested in any of the Harry S. Truman books? There's one that won an award, escapes me right now which one. It's fun chatting. C.

I am reading O'Tooles book now.(The second one)Tho just barely into it, I am enjoying VERY much. His "turn of phrase" is fabulous. And I agree. I'll bet he speaks as he talks.--A couple of nights ago I watched a film on Bravo,--"Creator" with our author at his advanced youth best.

Although I've given the O'Toole books away, I have read them and would be happy to discuss them in whatever detail anyone wishes, but right now we're almost ready for the Niven books both of which I can heartily recommend.

Best

LJ

Please pardon this brief interruption...


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