Moon's a Balloon/Bring on the Empty Horses ~ David Export

Well today is the day to begin discussion of these autobiographical books by David Niven.

It will facilitate discussion if we approach them at the rate of about 100 pages a week, thus those who would like to review of even read them for the first time will not be pushed too much and those who've recently completed them can re-review at a comfortable pace. I picked up my copy of the dual selection for $7. Mr Niven makes no bones about his progenitors, not affecting any royal parentage, but it does sound as though his father was a respectable military person. His (David's) early years were dominated by Nessie, a voluptuous Picadilly prostitute who at seventeen took the fourteen year old David "Under Her wing.

I'm anxious to hear whether any of you has chosen to read these little collections with us and to hear any of your initial comments.

Best

P.S. Don't expect a list of questions to be laid out for you. Just tell us what YOU think about as the story unfolds. He covers the same years that most of us have covered, but he knew all the people we wished we had known.

LJ - I loved both of these books and will be reading all the posts. Just have too much on my plate right now to engage in this discussion. Niven was one of my favorite actors back in those good old days when one had to leave the house and physically go to the movies! His "Around the World in ___" what was it anyway? The mind is moving slowly this morning. But am sure it was a classic.

One fellow I would loved to have met - but what could I have said to him if I had? "Loved your movies?" Stupid stuff, like that!

Around the world in EIGHTY DAYS, Ella

Best

Well, Ella, I'm sure you'd have acquitted yourself better than I did hte last time I was within shouting distance of a celebrity!

When we were touring Washington with some Sunday School children when Jimmy Carter was President, we got on that subway? on which the Congressmen go to lunch, and as we were waiting to get ON, OFF stepped Ted Kennedy.

I'm a staunch Republican, have never thought much of the Kennedys, but went absolutely ballistic: (MUCH better looking in person, looks thinner, too) was struck speechless, and he smiled and was passing on when I found my voice and screamed out to the others and the rest of the known world who hadn't seen him: "LOOK LOOK!!! The President's Brother!!"

Are you sure you want to be seen with me in NYC??

Ginny

Ginny - you always make me laugh! Yes, in NYC just yell out any old thing to any old body, we'll all laugh.

The closest I ever got to a celebrity was when we were in the Virgin Islands and we had taken a tour of St. John's. We ate lunch in that very, very exclusive (and the only) hotel on the place, belonging still to the Rockefeller bunch. As we were strolling along a path I looked up and coming toward us was Alan Alda in shorts and swinging a tennis racket! I was so very bashful, struck dumb I was! I sorta hung my head and after he went by I turned and just stood there watching him! No laughs there! Always loved him in "Mash" - he has very bow legs but wouldn't mind them at all on him (my husband does, too, by the way)

Well, HE is NYC!! In ART, the new Broadway production! Can you get us backstage passes since you've gandered at his legs?

GAGS

LJ, I have read both of these books but am going to have to rely on my memory as these were libary books. I thought Niven had a very hard life as a child and seems to have had a very difficult time with his step-father. He seemed to speak well of his Mother but had little to say that was positive, as I remember, about the step-father.

I guess my only brush with a celebrity occurred back in 1962 or 1963 when my wife and I were eating in a restruant in Topeka, Kansas and this couple passed by us on their way out of the place. I thought it was Robert Young and probably his wife and when we left I asked the cashier who said I was correct. The thing I remember was that Young looked old and his wife had these high-heeled shoes of many colors and a lovely mink coat.

Larry

Larry, Ginny, Ella: Its great to see youall here. I "Did" NYC in my younger years. There's nothing there but the Musea and Broadway shows and I understand the latter ain't what they used to be. I'd realy love to go and spend a whole week in Hoving's haunts.

Larry, You're right. Actually it seems that his early years were punctuated by "Dikensian" experiences and a less than close family. Thank goodness for the Picadilly Prostitute.

Best

LJ, There didn't seem to be much family direction in his young life. Guess he got a lot of his "worldly knowledge" from the street. One of the things that stood out throughout the books is that when Niven made a friend it was basically for life. I sort of have an image of him in my mind that is similar to Peter Lawford, who always seemed to be the friend who was always available.

Going back to Niven's childhood, his schooling experiences seem to have been less than satisfactory, particularly the experience with the master who was so cruel to him. He must have been a disciplinary problem in all of the schools. Wonder how much of that was directly attributable to his lack of home life and a starvation for attention.

Larry

I must rise to the defense of children who are considered "Disciplinary Problems" in their earlier school years. Most schools are geared to VERY average students. Youngsters who are above average intellectually, physically or emotionally often are considered "Behavior Problems". The "System" and its enforcers see no difference between the above average and the below average students. Both are "Problems". The Military is quite similar.

Best

LJ, I certainly agree with you concerning the "problem child". One of the things I really detest is the leveling of things to the lowest denominator. However, regarding Niven, he was expelled from several schools so would suppose there was an attitude surrounding him that he fit that title.

Throughout his life he seems to have sort of drifted into things, including the military life and then the world of Hollywood. He must have been a very likeable person as so many people seem to have taken him "under their wings" as we will see as the discussion progresses.

Larry

Yes, He seems to have gone through life, "Tongue in Cheek"

Best

Niven's description of the Naval Exams is rather humorous, and it seems that Nessie introduced him to all he would ever need to know about the "Human Condition" and made him "Street wise" without the necessity of having the personal experiences usually requisite for that sort of education.

His introduction to "Army Life" and earliest experiences with performing probably were as important a contribution to the development of a natural talent as anything else in his carreer.

I had the distinct impression that Nessie was not only a lover, but also a sister and a Mother to him. I thought it odd that he should comment at the age of 18 that he had finally grown to love and appreciate his Mother.

Best

OK LJ - I'm here now also! I love this book. Was anyone besides me rather shocked to discover that this quite elegant and urbane acting hollywood star was at one time unattractive - even fat? But I notice that he always seemed to have a way with words. Susan

Hi SUSAN. You're the only relative I have who can read more than one book at a time. You will have a real "Ball" with this one. Niven writes well and has had a BIG bundle of experiences. Your Mom and Dad would have appreciated this story even more than we can and I'll bet you've heard them talk about some of the characters and events Niven refers to. Of course he was more a contemporary of ours but I'm older than you and he is older than I.

Best

hi Lj Klien .He was my age about [David nivian]He was also a country man of mine,love and loved all he does.Gladys

Gladys, Good to have you with us. As a "Britisher", what do you think of his experiences in the "Highland Light Infantry"???

Best

Well, His assignment to the Highlands light infantry suggests he'd have done well to take a lesson from "Brer Fox" and asked Not to be assigned to the unit he most wanted.

I found a point of contact on pg 62 in his leave taking. I agree, its best to turn the doorknob and leave.

And the Cricket Match on Pg 77-78 was a visual image right out of "GUNGA DIN"

Best

LJ - I was surprised by the "leaving" and the fact that they lost rack of each other. And maybe I'm surprised because I wouldn't just turn the doorknob. It might be a gender thing. another fun visual for me was the "crossing" and meeting americans en masse. My experience in England taught me that they like us but are amazed by our noisy gregariousness. Niven seems to have appreciated it but I haven't gotten into his New York experience yet. susan

Susan

I'm surprised that you refer to our noisy gregariousness when after being in England recently, I remarked that the English sure like to talk a lot! Maybe my mood at the time was weird. But I always seem to notice the many conversations going on whenever we go there.

I still have not received my copy of these books although the bookstore where I ordered them has supposedly mailed. Must have use the old ponies instead of the young ones! Hahaha!

I just got mine, and will join you all for Empty Horses, as I can't hope to catch up, but peeked in at the mailbox, and it looks great!

Ginny

Am reading the posts right along and remembering! Of the two books, I thought "The Moon" book was best - so Ginny you must read it! Later, if not now.

Ella, I agree with you that the Balloon book was better than the Horses book, although I enjoyed both of them. Niven had such a varied and interesting life and knew so many famous people.

Larry

I've noticed your comments about which book is "Better". I found them to be two different approaches to similar material. The first book (Moon) is indeed more "Biographical" but the second is filled with supplimentary Vignettets which stand on their own as well as add to the preceeding biographical material. I don't think its a case of better but a difference in approach. Back to the "Moon", When they returned from their military "Siberia" and were only very briefly ensconced in new (Archaic) quarters, the sudden "Inspection" produced a "Keystone Kops" episode that rivals "Taps for Private Tussy" and would make a great movie itself.

What did you guys think ?

Best

Will those of you who read the Jefferson book kindly inform me if he had any special affinity for peaches? I know he was an avid gardener and grower. Need to know about peaches??

Or strawberries.

Thanks,

Ginny

Don't recall peaches and Strawberries, but he did criticize tobacco and corn as "Hard on the land"

Best

Don't recall him talking specifically about any crops, but remember he was not a great gardener according to the author. He didn't know or understand the techniques of good farming.

Really? I remember being at Monticello and their making a big point of his importation of this variety and that variety, I remember being very impressed. Will call Monticello later today and see if I can find out anything more....he NEEDS to like strawberries or peaches!

ahhahahahahah

Ginny

LJ, What was your take on the financial situation of Niven's Mother and Stepfather? He seems to have been able to get into several private schools (which I think in England are called public schools)and to have entry into the military regiment. I just don't have a feel for what family background and financial support was required for his activities. He certainly didn't live at home very much.

Larry

That's a good point, Larry. First I got the idea that Niven resented his father's dieing in battle ans never did care much for his stepfathjer. In fact the stepfather was pictured as somewhat of a "Skinflint". They lived comfortably if not necessarily lavishly, and upon her demise there was apparantly a small estate left by the mother to be shared by the children.

I got the impression that Niven never expected otherwise than to make it in life "On his own", and indeed with the depression as a backdrop, he did exceedingly well.

Best

With so many realy exceptional books under discussion, its hard to keep up with all of them, but I think we can forge a head with the next 100 pages (Through p 192) during the coming week (Thru May 11th)

I thought his first sojourn in the U.S. in the wild and crazed youth culture of the roaring twenties would have made F. Scott Fitzgerald sound ultraconservative.

His meeting of the Kings was colorful at least. i.e. The King of England, and Doug Fairbanks, the king of Hollywood.

His abrupt termination of his military carreer by resignation was also humerous. It was a conservative group. Imagine the adjutant who was sacked for marrying an actress --- Madeline Carroll.

I thought his acquaintance with a girl who smoked cigars and wore a monacle was an interesting prelude to a carreer as a wholesale liquor salesman

He was realy lucky to get to know Elsa Maxwell, and I loved her comment "You should go to Hollywood. Nobody out there knows how to speak English except Ronald Coleman.

Nuff fer now

Best

I was really impressed that Niven could come to the US and find immediate lodging and friendship with the upper classes. He seemed to have been accepted and supported during that time. Expect this speaks of his unique personality and the type of person he was to be around. He must have been a very unjudgmental type of person who just took everyone at face value and adjusted to the situation.

Larry

I just popped in for a look around. I read these books AGES ago and no longer have them, but Larry's last post reminded me of one of the funniest passages regarding Niven's introduction to the Hollywood group. It was a letter of introduction from somebody in England to Fred Astaire. Apparently Fred's wife, name unremembered, has a terrible problem saying her r's. When Niven showed up at their door bearing his letter of introduction, she shouted up the stairs to Astaire, "Fwed, Fwed, dawing, there's a pefwectly dweadful man to see you." I'm certain Niven's version is MUCH funnier. I remember laughing out loud so many times while reading these books. What a remarkable man he was.

Thanks, LJ for bringing these books to everyone's attention.

How did youall like that bit when He was taken aboard the "Bounty" replica from the British warship and earned the reputation of makeing his Hollywood debut by sea?

Best

LJ, Would that be considered appearance over substance? I found his descriptions of the activities of "extras" in the movies enlightening. It sounded like there was a definite caste system in place and that some of them had figured out how to beat the system.

(Hope this isn't ahead of the current cut-off for commenting. Since I no longer have the books I am having to rely on some of the things I remember from the books.)

Larry

LARRY, there are so few of us in this onr that you can feel free to comment about anything at any time.

You're definitely right about the "Caste" system, Some of the methods of "Useing" or getting around it were indeed ingenious.

Best

I thought the starting salary of $2.50 a day was impressively small (About $15.00 by today's standards)

David's real start was apparantly facilitated by people he'd met prerviously like Doug Fairbanks, but his real breakthrough was the contract with Goldwyn. One wonders if Goldwyn was realy that perceptive because Niven is actually very modest in his description of his own talent, but the question is resolved in the story of the filming of "Prisoner of Zenda" when he demonstrates innate acting ability beyond question.

The penchant Niven shows for name dropping is enjoyable especially Errol Flynn (My childhood hero) and Jeanette MacDonald (With whom I once had Dinner "A deaux"). The interdigitation of these book club texts is underlined by the Hurst and Marion Davies connections at thae castle which we know so well from reading the bio of Francis Marion (Without Lying Down)

For the coming week lets move on to PP 200-300

Best

LJ, I am still somewhat amazed that Niven seems to be able to move into the movie society so easily and seemed to be accepted by many of the big stars. I thought the stories he told about Ronald Coleman were interesting (although that may be in the other book). It sounds like he had quite a relationship with Errol Flynn and must have never seen a bottle that he didn't like.

While he didn't dwell on it, he certainly experienced a tragic loss when he wife died. He does seem to have been quite a remarkable person.

Larry

LJ: You liked Errol Flynn? Must be a male thing - he was never a hero to me! And what is a dinner "a deaux?" Perhaps I've had one and never knew it? hahaha But even though they were silly movies, I liked the Jeannette MacDonald ones - can't think of the guy's name, Nelson?? somebody.

Larry - I've always remembered Niven's describing his wife's death - a foolish game they were playing!! How dreadful for him, and everyone there! Life plays some very stupid tricks at times and difficult to understand.

Am sorry I'm not reading along with you, have my hands full with so much else right now!

1. Nelson Eddy. "Give me some men who are stout hearted men...."

2. "Dinner a deaux" I don't spell well in English and not at ALL in French. It means a Dinner alone for two.

3. Those swashbuckling dueling scenes and swinging from ropes were a stimulus to all boys who went to the saturday matinees for ten cents (They raised it to eleven cents when tax was added). That was before we even understood what "In like Flynn" meant

4. Larry, I think Niven met a few people with the right connections early on and then lucked out in hollywood useing them as a springboard. He must have had a lot of obvious talent. His accent served him well. He must certainly have been a "Bon Vivant" with a mind, and was apparantly NOT a "Screaming Queen". Combine these assets with a modicum of good fortune and you've got a "Superstar"

Best

It is a deux. Deux is the word for two in French.

Joan

Hello. I have been reading the posts about David Nivens' books and they are interesting.

He wrote a wonderful line about Trubshawe in the Highland Light Infantry: "He really tried hard to become a good soldier, but fate usually arranged to drop a banana peel for him to step on." It would seem also that Niven often dropped banana peels for himself to slip on, beginning with his school days. How about when he was trying to get a job in Hollywood, had been there four weeks already, with only a 10-day visitor's visa and no work permit!

He never really criticizes anyone. In an autobiography which requires dredging up all one's memories and experiences, this seems remarkable. Except he did show a dislike for his stepfather.

Loma, I think you have hit upon a very important point in terms of Niven's writing. He just seemed to accept everybody exactly as they were and had little bad to say about anyone. That is probably a key as to why he was so well liked by so many people. He must have been both a good listener and a good conversationlist.

Larry

Clearly he was also a good "Leader" as demonstrated with his experiences in the "A Squadron" and his later liason assignment also speaks to his diplomatic abilities.

I was a bit taken aback by his reference to his son as "The little boy", but that may just be British reserve. The passage on Pg 242 when his young son comments while looking at a star "I can see Mommie's eye" What a Tear-Jerker!!

Best

I think he must have been a good listener and I'll bet he kept a diary or journal because he has such good recall for detail. Maybe that's what helped him with his acting career also. I can imagine him quietly watching a real-life scene, filing it away like a writer would do and dredging it up for some characterization later on.

Susan, You're absolutely correct. He admits openly to being a name dropper and we all (even you young folks) are fortunate that he is/was and that he kept such detailed notes.

I hadn't realized (or remembered) his key role in "Masterpiece Theatre", "Zane Grey stories", "The Rifleman" and "Wanted Dead Or Alive".

I think that the Apex of Niven's carreer came with the role he played in "Around the World In 80 Days"

I can certainly identify with the byplay between Niven and Noel Coward when Niven says he's reached the age when all of his friends are dieing and Coward replies, "I'm delighted if mine last through Luncheon"

Best

LJ, I remember that David Niven was a part of a production company with Charles Boyer and I think it was Ida Lupino and one other person. Believe it was called "Four Star". Between the Niven book and the Katherine Graham book we are doing in a History Discussion we are getting a lot of famous names dropped. Guess that is about as close to famous people as I am likely to come and suppose that is why I enjoy reading books like these.

Larry

Besides the qualities he must have had that are already mentioned, the fact that he played tennis and polo and liked sailing and fishing was an advantage.

Yes, perhaps he did keep calendars or a journal, though he never alluded to it. Otherwise how could he be so clear on when so many things had happened years before? One thing that helped is that he seems to have been a story-teller. That is a person who is capable of summing up an event, telling it interestingly, with a little punch or ending line. For a person with this character trait, it does help fix the event in his own memory. A few times in the book I thought the editor ought to have left a blank line after one of them, for instance, after the Form Square story on page 116 in the hard-cover book. Other places it does have a space after, as on p. 345 after the story of his photo still being on Goldwyn’s piano.

He married twice. It must have been a change in life-style, according to some of his accounts before. He was attracted to both wives by their great beauty, and married in a hurry -- was it 17 days after meeting the first, and 10 days after meeting the second? Yet both were happy marriages. One day he wondered how it was possible for one man to have so much; a few days later Primmie died from a fall and somehow his anguish is shown in that last paragraph line: “She was only twenty-five.”

Toward the end of this segment there is an extensive indictment of the modern changes that rocked Hollywood as Television became its major competitor. The changes in both personalities and environment. It seems to me that the Nivens weren't the only ones leaving Hollywood for safer, quieter pastures.

He also, not too subtly comments upon the lack of appreciation of the employers for the true dedication of their actors (and actresses)

A few delightful (and often dangerous) tales close out this book, and I'm sure that those of you who haven't read the second book have the feeling that you've heard it all so why go on??.

I'm here to tell you that "BRING ON THE EMPTY HORSES" is written from a different perspective with inside tales of many of Hollywood's greats. Whereas The first volume is biographical, the second is written about people and is delightful.

More about that next week.

Best

I am so glad to hear about his first book. I've ordered ""The Moon..." a couple of places, one said it was on the way, then recanted. I have "...Horses" and will go ahead and read it without having read the first one. It sounds like, eventhough I've missed part of his childhood, reading the second one won't really matter that much.

HOLD IT! HOLD IT! RIGHT HERE!

LJ - YOU HAD LUNCH ALONE WITH JEANNETTE MACDONALD? DO YOU THINK YOU CAN JUST SAY THAT AND THEN GO ON CASUALLY TALKING OF THIS AND THAT??

I want more details. Where, when, how, stuff like that!!! Was it a date? How thrilling! I thought she was lovely, with that long hair of her's.

DO TELL!!!

I thought you'd never ask. (I think I've told the story before).

It was a midnight dinner for two following her performance of the "Merry Widow" at the Irquois Park Amphitheatre in Louisville. I was a teen and she was in her sixties. She ate only Asparagus salad, and I ate steak. She was a very gracious lady and we talked mostly about music.

The background makes it much less dramatic. She ate (As did most performers coming thru Louisville in those days) at my Father's restaurant and he made the arrangements. I was working in a summer camp at the time and we set it up for my day off.

It turned out that that was her last tour. She began having transient cerebral ischemic attacks somewhere in the west as she was approaching Calif. (I think in Texas) and although she lived for a while, she was never well again.

Best

I'd never heard that story before! Just like a man to remember what you ate! Nothing about how lovely she was, what a great voice, if you like trills (and it's not nice to talk about ladies in their sixties!), just that she was gracious. Don't you remember what you talked about at all? Of course, you were a teen - were you somewhat embarrassed about the whole thing? Did you plan a topic of conversation? Did your Dad come by to check it out? Asparagus salad?? Well, I was on the tail end of her movies, and nobody liked her but me, but when she and Nelson Eddy sang together I thought it was the most romantic thing!!

Thanks for the memory!

I tried to post further comment, but the Gremlins are attacking in force.

Best

These vignettes and "Bitty Biographical" sketches bring back memories of the great days of Hollywood for most of us who remember when "Route 66" was a regular radio program, and when traffic on that highway was essentially all East to West. Its worthy of note that only in the past ten years have I begun regularly meeting people who are FROM California.

Remember that Niven first went west on a ship thru the Panama Canal, later with a major Highway travel became easier, and he outlines the early years of transcontinental flight which was literally the "Death" of some great names that he knew and we "Knew of".

Even I (A relative youngster) remember "The Silver Fleet" twin engine passenger planes that we went to the airport to sit on bleachers and watch with excitement. Many of us can probably remember a flight across country in a two engine rattletrap which at the time was "Top of the Line" WOW what a difference just a few years makes.

Niven remembers Marlene Dietrich's first appearance in slacks. I didn't remember that as the start of a fad, but I do recall a time when women in pants were a novelty.

Come reminisce with us. D.W. Griffeth was a Kentuckian, Victor Mature was a Louisvillian, My Mother used to swim in meets with Johnny Weismiller (Lakeside Swim Club) in an old quarry where someone would have to preceede the girls to warn the boys that they were coming because the boys were apt to "Skinny-Dip" (As was my generation at the same lake- at night)

In this first hundred pages of "BRING ON THE EMPTY HORSES" tell us what YOU remember.

I got my copy of this "Double" book from Bibliofind for only $8.00

Best

I remember swimming in a quarry or watching others - I was never a very good swimmer. Wonder if that quarry is still there? Never had any brothers or knew any young boys who went skinny dipping, but am sure they did somewhere. I remember Victor Mature in the movies - he had those flaring nostrils - somewhat like a horse, I thought.

I remember when it seems everybody had flat tires constantly and I once rode in an old car you had to crank - although they were leaving the scene when I was young.

I thought Katharine Hepburn was the first woman in Hollywood who set the style wearing pants.

I also will always remember taking a ride in a yellow convertible with a rumble seat in the back - owned by an elderly lady who lived across the street. When I was about 19 she put the car up for sale for $500 and I wanted to buy it so badly, it was adorable and very little mileage on it. Was dating my husband at the time and he liked it, too, but being ever practical he said we wouldn't be able to get parts for it, we had no garage to store it in, and found out she sold it to a college student. This must have been 1949 or so.

Don't have the book, LJ, but read it some years ago. What else is in it. I'm reading all the posts!

World War II is a subject David Niven seems to have written about very well, and I was impressed. He covers it as it affected him personally and also gives a clear general background. It was rather surprising that he had such a time getting into the service.

One interesting/amusing story he told was after the Americans and Free French entered Paris August 25, 1944. Niven had to deliver papers to an American colonel there, his jeep was waylaid and he wound up pedaling a borrowed woman’s bicycle down the length of the Champs-Elysees “probably the first British soldier the French of Paris had seen for five years.”

After all he had seen England suffer, and the other countries, and the slave labor camps and concentration camps in Germany, he wrote a sentence that was rather uniquely constructed but very telling: “Hitler had started the whole horrible shambles, but looking at the places where his chickens had come home to roost, I watched the miserable survivors picking around in the ruins of their towns and was unable to raise a glimmer of a gloat.”

On the next page, he tells an extremely poignant story after the war is over of meeting 2 men in a farm cart on a country road, one of the men being a German general on his way home.

Worth reading again.

EUREKA, I FOUND IT. I'VE HAD TROUBLE FINDING "THE MOON...", I WAS ON JURY DUTY AND HAD 2 HOURS TO KILL SO I WENT TO A USED BOOK STORE AND FOUND IT AND BOUGHT IT FOR , READY FOR THIS? I BOUGHT IT FOR 43 CENTS. HAHA! NOW I JUST HAVE TO CATCH UP TO YOU ALL. CONNIE

Victor Mature was the subject of a recent "Where Are They Now" column in the Boston Herald. The article said that he wouldn't do ANY of his stunts and always used a double - Mayer or DeMille (can't find the darn article!) called him a coward. When he was interviewed recently he cheerfully admitted he never took any chances, he said, "I wouldn't go up wet steps"! He's 84 now and living very comfortably, apparently did very well financially.

I read "Moon . . ." quite a while ago, enjoyed it very much, fascinating gentleman. Liked the "tidbit" that Peter Ustinov was his "batman"!

Eileen

There are fascinating stories here about personages and legends like sam Goldwyn, Prince Mike Romanoff, Edgar Bergan, Ronald Coleman, David Selznik, Doug Fairbanks, Charlie Chaplin, typical starlets, Bogie and others.

If anyone would care to comment upon, or discuss, any of these colorful personages of this bygone era this week is your chance to contribute

I, for one, am delighted that I've had the opportunity to read these truly delightful books, but as is so often the case most of us simply don't have the time to "Catch up" on some of the realy great reading we've missed over the years

Lets finish out the month and "Call it a book" Its a good solid niner.

Best

LJ, Good plan. I agree that these books were very enjoyable to read and to get insights into some of the many celebrities that Niven apparently knew very well. I thought his story about Clark Gable was particularly interesting (hope I am remembering the correct star). He liked to fish and get out in the wild. After reading most of these stories, I wondered if any of the stars every took a sober breath. It seemed that heavy drinking was the goal of each day. It is a wonder they were able to work.

I also enjoyed the stories related to the Heart castle and Niven's friendship with the son.

The second book had stories within the story dealing with particular personalities. Ronald Coleman must have been quite a character.

Larry

Larry, I think the pervading alcoholic haze of the industry persisted and even spilled over into the public arena, viz, Judy Garland and Dean Martin, and later actors like Brooks.

Best

LJ, I really wonder if the situation has changed much with the Hollywood crowd, although the drug may have changed.

Larry

Bring On the Empty Horses was written several years after The Moon's a Balloon but it seems a bit mellower. The Moon's seemed intended to start as well as end with a shocker. Bringing in Nessie at the beginning paragraph really seemed unnecessary and contrived.

Sorting out the people he knew into chapters in the Empty Horses was well done. He admired Clark Gable, "the king". It is interesting that he did not enlarge on Gable's frustration with Marilyn Monroe not being on time or knowing her lines, which the media at the time had made so much of & claimed was the cause of Gable's attack and death. The Bogart-Bacall relationship, the friendship with Fred Astaire & his wife, the rather sad ending of the W. R. Hearst story, all are interesting.

Yes, bright Hollywood did/does have dark sides. But Niven in general told of many more positive things.

By the way, The Moon's book was dedicated to Kira Kanuphyladafodilos (this name almost ends with the word daffodil). Did I miss who she was?

LOMA, I confess that I completely missed the dedication. It sounds like a greek play on words, to me.

Best

mY FATHER WENT TO SCHOOL WITHDAVIDNIVENE(ETON) AND THEY BOTH JOINED UP TOGETHER AT THE BEGINNING OF wORLD wAR 2. tHEY WERE IMMEDIATELY STATIONED IN A CHILDREN'S ORPHANAGE, THEY BOTH WERE OVER SIX FOOT TALL, AND THE CHILDRENS JOHNS AND BATH TUBS WERE MADE FOR KINDERGARTEN KIDS!! nEEDLESS TO SAY, THEY BOTH HAD GREAT SENSES OF HUMOUR.

Siri, Thanks for sharing that tidbit with us. Do you have any others concerning Niven and your Father? If so, I am sure we would be very interested.

Larry

yES, Larry, my father and David loved the good life,, the best food and, not the least, the best wines.!!!l

It was clear from reading the Niven books that he liked the good life and did enjoy the spirits as did most of his friends. I think he would have been a very interesting person to know.

Larry

If we're now discussing Empty Horses I'd like to say that I really enjoyed reading the part about Clark Gable, who DID seem a real "man's man." Remember when they used to say that about him? Now I guess we can see why.

I also waited in vain for the bits about Monroe's lateness, was horrified to hear Gable gained so much in such a short time in Italy, oh dear. I can see that Niven was a loyal friend.

Ginny