Tomorrow is kick-off on this book. I hope there are at least a couple of you out there you are reading, or have read this book. So much of it was a surprise for me, particularly the situation with the pygmies and the almost pre-historic world that they, and the other tribes, live in.

So, let me know who's out there, and thank you LJ, very much, for recommending this book.

Katie

One of the advantages of reading a book a month or so before the discussion, then going back through it is to realize what one has continued to revisit over time from the book.<> As this one starts off we're stimulated by the thought of prehistoric monsters and the like which is not realy the main interest in the text but rather a fabric upon which the story unfolds.

Rather, we begin with what seems like a quaint primitive attitude toward witchcraft, amulets and fetishes; and this is a thread that subtly permeates the story and gives us occasion to analyze (along with the author). Ultimately we perceive that this primitive "supersticiousness" is a human trait which is present in all cultures and virtually all people; much like the common cold, an affliction (or crutch) which can easily, indeed almost imperceptibly, be "Caught" and which influences our comfort and feeling of well-being (security) either briefly or perhaps permanantly as the future unfolds.

Best

LJ

It is quite interesting to me, to read the definition of animism(here in the heading)--and the outline of this book. I haven't read it yet, but will.--The whole subject is one that has fascinated me for many many years.--I have just finished the first two books of Philip Pullmans trilogy.-- A wonderful "fantasy",--that delves into the subject of "souls"--Am looking forward to this discussion..!

Welcome Putney! If you read this book, and I certainly hope you do, you will be fascinated by "animism in action," as well as by the author's response to it when placed in an environment where both people and things are considered to have supernatural powers. It's also interesting to see that in the CIA factbook (see link above), it is estimated that about half of the people in the Congo are still considered animists, and about half are Christian. The missionaries have been hard at work. In fact, when I was researching animism online, some of the best information was on Christian sites (mostly Catholic), that explained how one could best explain Christianity to an animist by drawing parallels between the two beliefs.

Our hero's first encounter with a feticheuse has less to do with animism, however, than it does with family counseling coupled with, perhaps, a little old-fashioned pyschic power. I loved that part when their driver told Lary and Redmond about how the feticheuse got rid of his daughter's boyfriend by putting a spell on the couple. He hastened to add that the couple MUST know about the spell or it wouldn't work. Suggestion can be powerful.

And LJ,you are right on when you say that it isn't until you've finished the book and had time to reflect a bit upon it, that you realize that the book is not about finding a dinosaur, or adventure, or risking your life. It's far more about finding yourself risking your mind.

Did anyone find it interesting that 1) O'Hanlon embarked upon this journey with a man he hadn't seen in 10 years, and 2) that that man had once had multiple sclerosis which is exacerbated by heat and stress, yet he chose to go on this extremely hot and stressful trip? Both seem a bit chancey to me, though I'm so glad Lary was there because he added lots of insight and humor to this journey.

The role of the French is another subject altogether, and I hope we get around to discussing that.

Katie

I had every intention of reading this book. The review in amazon.com is fascinating. But what with my lack of time and the other three books I'm reading, it just didn't happen. No Mercy is lying on my bedside table untouched. So I'll just lurk in the background and maybe jump in later if I get part of it read. Have fun!

Marge, thanks for checking in. You will enjoy this book when you do have time to read it. And the writing is wonderful.

Katie

Hi All; Just started reading "No Mercy" and I'm having a problem getting into it.However,I really enjoyed O'Hanlons description of life of pygmy chimps in Chapt.6 (pgs.49-51).

I'm anxious to read your comments!

P.24 "Gorillas never stare at each other. It's a threat" This is a most cogent observation. It applies to dogs too unless they are one's intimate pet (I almost bought the turf one time for staring into the eyes of a Great Dane) and in many human situations similarly direct prolonged eye contact is both challenging and/or aggressive. When one of my daughter's first went to New York my initial words of caution were NEVER look anybody in the eye. On the street if its not a threat, it represents a "Come-on". How different this is from the admonitions we've given and received to "Stand up straight and look the person to whom you are speaking firmly in the eyes" Actually, the is a situation where verbal interaction is mitigating the situation.

I'm quite certain that the experts on Body-Language have written volumes on this subject. Its not just a simple observation. We've all intentionally caught people by the eye, and at time if firm eye contact can be established it might be even life saving.

Of course we've all also looked into eyes where there was nobody home.

Best

LJ

LJ - a person I knew once made the mistake of trying to connect with a German Shepard by looking deeply into it's eyes. He got bit on the nose, the fool.

Those who have read the book know that at the time O'Hanlon was in the Congo, it was a Marxist state, at least in name. While O'Hanlon and Schaffer are still in Brazzeville, waiting to take a boat up river, their driver Nicolas, the same man who took them to the feticheuse, says this after stating that a young man had been killed in a fight:

Modern Life - this is the problem. That's what I blame. That's where the problem lies. In the villagge where I grew up none of this would have happened. Our life - it was lived all together. My father had two wives and I had four brothers and five sisters. The young men went hunting and whatever they caught they shared with everyone. Food was free. Manioc was free. There were no diseases. The central house was the school and also the palace of justice, the court. That is where the old men talked over the problems of the village and where they taught the children our stories, the history of our people, how to live. Life in the village when I was a child - that was the only true Communism, the real life in common. The air was fresh. There were no lorries. There was no money. Fish was free. And the feticheur-if you broke a leg he would break and chicken's leg and both legs would heal at the same time. I saw it with my own eyes. In the city, nowadays, that is no longer possible. I have never heard of it.

The paper African societies (see link above) talks about the disruption in village life with the introduction of money. I imagine it's an old story all over Africa.

Wasn't the part where the young gorilla bit Redso's ears (page 25) well done?

Katie

The author's attraction to the young chimps and apes is even more firmly impressed on us later when he literally becomes the parent of one.

I enjoyed the description of the children's game on P47 . We once had a commercial product called "Ooh-Wah-Ree" which clearly was the same game. I'd like to get another one to play with my grandchildren.

There is such a wealth of Natural History scattered throughou the book that its impossible to comment on everything.

I naver managed to get past the "Bird Study" merit badge when I was younger, but the frequent references to and comments upon birdlife throughout the book make me wish I knew more about the subject

Best

LJ

I was indeed intrigued by the upriver boat trip on the "Floating Village". There was a Geographic Special or a similar production last year describing a trip into the interior of a South American country. Did any of you see it?, I wonder if there are many others like these.

Best

LJ

LJ - I enjoyed the description of the boat and passengers too. Third class, second class....but it was the cockroaches in the first class cabin beds that would have sent me packing. I would have raced off that boat and headed for home:

Lary had the bottom right-hand corner of his mattress half out of its box-base. There came the sound of finger-nails on wood, the acrid smell of a deep litter chicken-shed; cockroaches, the size of shrews, cascaded over the lip of the box, fell to the floor, righted themselves,and scuttered to safety in all directions across the linoleum.

How big IS a shrew anyway?

A shrew is the smallest of the mammals, about half the size of a mouse and in most other particulars grossly resembling a mouse. It gets its reputation from being agressively defensive whenever cornered. It'll stand and fight an elephant if need be.

Cockroaches are probably the most ubiquitous of creratures, and as you know are prominant throughout this story. Having lived in the caribbean as well as in the inner city I've learned that cockroaches in heavily infested areas can be controlled within any given area by the generous sprinkling of Boric Acid along ALL walls and projections throughout a house or living space. Unfortunately, this doesn't work well in basements or in any below ground areas (They live in the ground and are especially fond of dampness), and in "Old" houses they thrive on the paste in the wall paper. I have seen fortunes spent on fancy boric acid preparations, smoke bombs and the like but plain Boric Acid if generously and very thoroughly applied works like a charm. We live in the woods, but sprinkle it about once a year and almost NEVER see a roach.

Our travelers are beset by all sorts of vermin as they travel in this primitive land

Best

LJ

Talk about "Non-Fiction": "so he's drowned"..... "This is the best governed country in Africa, our people are the best educated. There is no war, no famine, , but its still Africa......If you make a fuss like that everytime someone dies, my friend, you won't last"

Some of the "Natural History" was fascinating and I'd haver wanted a great deal more detail. The Crab Domes were well done, but the fish like "Le capitaine" would have benefitted from more information."The most feared fish in the river" deserves at least a National Geographic special.

Interesting social commentary on the "Colobus" "As if everyone half fancied everyone else. This makes fighting impossible. There are no reports of bite scars on Colobus skins". Material for meditation on the "Human condition"

Did anyone fully appreciate the fantisies about Pepi II and pygmies?? and counterposed to the reality that the travelers were truly terrorized for days at a time. If one has the facitity to project oneself into the narrative situations, its a dramatically exciting story.

Best

LJ

For anyone who has this book, but who has just been too busy to follow along, the two page analysis of Pygmy philosophy on 152-3 is worth reading the whole book.

Lary's close encounter with the poison arrow on p.159 reminds us that many of our modern "Miracle" drugs came from these primitive peoples. Anectine which paralyses the myo-neural junctions and is used extensively in anesthesiology is a derivitave of "Arrow poison"

P 164. A moonshine still in the African jungle. Just like those I've seen here in the Kentucky hills. Wow, half the world away, and just like home.

The "I.Q." discussion at the end of chapter 20 reminded me of a friend who once rermarked, "L.J. If we are so G....D.... smart, how come we ain't rich"

Are there realy more Astrologers than priests, in France???And are Ants realy one third of the entire biomass in a rainforest. Just think about it

Best

LJ

I've been away from the computer for a few days, but was delighted to come back and read LJ's interesting observations.

The pygmies are fascinating. I was surprised that the first European to actually lay eyes on the pygmies was a Frenchman (who also described the gorilla for the first time) who launched an expedition inland in 1985 - it seems much too recent.

There's a picture of O'Hanlon and their pygmy guide, Muko, at the end of chapter 13. He's a handsome man, with a very developed upper body, completely normally proportioned, but stands below O'Hanlon's shoulder - possibly four foot six. From pygmy to Watusi to Samoan to Scandinavian - what a variety of appearances we come in.

And the picture of the pygmy child with the disfiguring condition called yaws is very sad.

The people in the story, as individuals, are also fascinating. The tense and uncomfortable atmosphere at Marcellin's parent's house was an experience that all of us have had an unwittingly being invited into a house where there "is a deep family problem that needs to be discussed."

Katie

This is a good time to summarize the "Fetish" motif in the book which was indeed the way the tale began.

Lary begins a discussion of sorcery of which both he and Redmond are contemptuous. Then on P192 they (redmond) indict Islam, Christianity and Sorcery as three peas in a pod. Through the remainder of the story Redmond (Almost silently) demonstrates his human nature by using the very superstitions to which he so fervently resists becoming addicted.

A most intrigueing study in the way the mind of this beast we call Man works.

Then, at the end of Chap 23 as the haze formed into a Pygmy, the comment "Those legends, I thought, the stories about the little people, the dwarfs of the forest who can make themselves invisable, the Egyptian reports of 2000 B.C., They're TRUE!" Best

LJ

There's more to comprehending fetishes and stimulating commentary in the area of theophilosophy as we move thru chapter 24, then in chapter 25 we have this bizarre episode which seems to be a combination of fantasy, hypnogogic hallucinations, dreams and a fugue state, all of which we are led to believe is due to a combination of the local alcoholic beverage and tropical "Ganga". Sounds more like Mushrooms and/or LSD to me, but one must allow for literary license.

Best

LJ

LJ, remember the part in Trespassers on the Roof of the World when the poor Tibetan soldiers were massacred by the guns of the British because they were convinced that the monks had given them divine protection from bullets? Same thing happens in Chapter 24 to the Banda who thought they were protected by their fetish, the Congoala.

Redmond's experience while high on ganga certainly does seem psychedelic. I wonder if the author truly remembered this experience verbatim, or is there a great deal of license going on here. It seems very unlikely that he could remember a hallucenation that vividly.

Lary's depression at the failure of the dugouts to show up seems so odd. Why on earth did he agree to go on this trip? He seems to be hating every single moment - as most people would. Doesn't O'Hanlon seem to be incredibly unconscious of the discomfort, filth and awful food? ("Incredible" in the sense of not credible?)

Katie

Lary's comment "Its not always been fun....in fact I'm not sure it's ever been fun...and I've never been so frightened in my whole life, but...."

That summarizes it. A fabulously interesting and indeed, stimulating story, but I'm glad I wasn't there and wouldn't want to go. I'll settle for participating vicariously.

And what do all you readers out there think about that African Village run entirely by WOMEN ???

And AIDS in Africa where it originated, and where in some countries the seropositivity rate is as high as 50%, is said to be "A white American Capitalist disease". Of course here, in the U.S., the religious right thinks it all started with Bill and Monica.

Best

LJ

Following several more pages of (I think) brilliant prose there are several pages at the end of Chapter 32 referring to Bruce Chatwin. Much of that material is of interest to those of us who've read "Conversations With Maurie" and the Australian adventure story about the DREAMTIME.

Best

LJ

You're absolutely right, LJ, about the wonderful writing in Chapter 32. From Marcellin's breakdown to the Giant Gambian rat that fell on Redmond, it's a riviting piece of work. I enjoyed the references to Chatwin too, and got a little insight into what he was like as a friend and travel companion.

It's clear that Marcellin is very afraid of the Boha men, Vicki and Doubla. They love to hunt gorilla and don't show him the respect the people other villages did. And Doubla's preoccupation with the gun Nze carries is frightening. Still Redmond, seems so unconcerned.

Katie

Katie, Its been a delightful book, well worth reading and filled with pearls of natural history and philosophy as well as politics and anthropology.

As we tie this one up (And as our time will be focused on the Supreme Court books) I'd like to comment on the fact that "Mokele Mbembe" turns out to be the least important subject covered except that I enjoyed the camping trip to the shores of the lake, and as with the rest of the trip I'm glad to be reading about it rather than doing it.

One sentence struck me as important (quoting Freud) "If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence of success..." "He'll conquer the world. Still, how many men can say that? And anyway, who in their right mind wants to conquer the world?"

The story of his parenting and adopting the Chimp was a tale all its own about which an entire book might well have been written. I can't comment except to marvel at his dedication. This puts him in a very small class of people, including only Jane Goodall, the Author, and possibly "Daktari"

Best

LJ