The Monon RR ran behind our home in Indy and the suburban depot was right down the street. We were thrilled as children to tour the newest diesel engine that they had acquired. It was on display for us to go through for a day or two. Very exciting! We also were constantly putting pennies on the tracks to see them smashed by a train. Not the safest thing to do, but for us, exciting! Didn't take much to entertain us back then! LOL!

Got to www.sacbee.com to read the article.

Is the book in paperback yet?

I've lost SN's "What If" classification. Anybody know what major heading it may be under? (Disregard: It's IF under Lifestyles.)

Sentimentalists may enjoy my "puppy love" post under Arts and Entertainment, Pop Music Memory Lane. Best wishes.

Ginny, we both know that I hate responsibility! I have sent this site to another friend who sounds like williewoody. He has such large set up in his basement that when there is a convention here in Ohio, they come to visit his trains. He has 5 boys and one girl who have helped him over the years. They all love trains.

Robby

jbowl35, you can get the audio on Amazon.com for a very reasonable price. I saw it there yesterday. Also, our local library has it so maybe yours does,too. We use the library audio tapes frequently while on trips, so know how nice they are to hear.

Go to sacbee.com, scroll down until it shows the last 7 days, click on tuesday then scroll to "Section; Voices."

The Bee has a nationwide reputation as an excellent newspaper and wins many awards. The Sacramento Union went out of business because it was extremely right wing. As an example, at one time Richard Scaife invested in it.

I e-mailed Weintraub and told him about this board's discussion. Maybe he's lurking???

Perhaps this message doesn't belong here but I was deeply offended by the hatred of the Bee in message #31.

I was a Bee paper boy in the 1930s and have been a proud subscriber ever since. It continues to win many jounalistic awards.

Wow! Will Weintraub respond?

This could get interesting.

But perhaps my greatest memories are of my childhood when I would spend time down at the depot. The job of Stan, the Station Master, was not only to sell tickets but to stoke the iron pot bellied coal stove in the waiting room. We boys woulds spend easily an hour watching him grab the Morse key between two fingers and thumb and send messages to other station masters. There was a 200-yard long fence separating the east bound from the west bound tracks. The station was on the east-bound side and in the morning those commuters who were headed west toward New York City were able to cross because a gate opening had been built. When the steam engine blew its whistle two miles before arriving at Islip, a man in a small shack way down at the end of the fence would turn a wheel which pulled a wire closing the gate and would then hold up a "stop" sign preventing cars from crossing near his shack. Primitive, but it worked.

In those days there were no superhighways and, therefore, no heavy truck transportation. Most freight was carried in railroad freight cars. Islip had a freight station and another thrill as I gre older was watching the steam engine shunt cars back and forth on different sidings. I never got over watching an engine give a car a gigantic push, then back away and let the car roll on and on and on of its own weight until it hit the end of the parked train and automtically coupled. Engineers liked boys and would always give us a friendly wave.

Robby

I don't think I ever got over the thrill of watching and listening to a steam locomotive. I went to sleep at night with the sound of the whistle in my ears and woke up in the morning to the sound of the long-short-long-long as the early commuter train approached the crossing. On Saturays when I was older, I would watch the trains arriving -- the sound of the bell signaling the arrival, the hiss of the steam as the locomotive slowed, the squeal of the brake shoes on the rails. Then after the passengers embarked and disembarked, the sound of the bell again warning of an impending movement, the fast skidding of the wheels accompanied by the fast chug-chug-chug sound if it was a long train, the view of the sweating fireman as he shoved extra coal into the firebox and then the grin on the engineer's face as he waved to me and pulled the whistle cord. I can see why so many boys have been hypnotized into becoming railroad men.

Robby

Changing trains in Germany is a snap. Platforms are designed in such a way that the train you need to transfer to will be standing immediately across the platform from the train in which you arrive. Since most German-Rail trains are configured the same--first class cars in the front, second -class cars in the rear, you merely cross the platform to find the same type of accommodations on the connecting train.

The new ICE2s have even more leg room, electronic destination indicatiors on the outside of the train cars, digital display seat reservation units above the seats, electronic 220V sockets for laptop computers, increased facilities for the disabled, and one car has a family compartment.

Munich's Railway Station--the Hauptbanhof is actually a city within a city. It even has its own hotel. In addition to the regular rail-station services, all you need do is descend one level on any one of the stations's many escalators to discover a veritable city of shops, ranging from bakeries, beer stubes, fruit stands, and supermarkets, as well as the subway entrances to many of Munich's department stores. This shopping colossus extends from the Hauptbanhof all the way to Karlsplatz-Stachus-more than one quarter of a mile.

"Our Post colleague, Civil War buff Hank Burchard, is among the alert readers who recently discovered a serious historical error in Stephen Ambrose's latest blockbuster, "Nothing Like It in the World: The Men Who Built the Transcontinental Railroad 1863-1869." On Page 292, the superstar historian writes that "George B. McClellan's uncoded orders were captured by the Confederates before the Battle of Antietam, giving Robert E. Lee a chance to read them." It turns out that Ambrose got it exactly backward: It was the Union army that captured Lee's orders. A chastened Ambrose told us his foul-up will be fixed for the next edition of the book, which has already been through nine printings. "I have no idea why I made this mistake," he said. "I am embarrassed to the tips of my toes."

Isn't this fun sharing all these bits and pieces??

Am just getting started with the book as I will like reading ahead a little and then going back to discuss. I am also taking the B&N University course on this title but so far am not too impressed. They do have some great clickables!

I'm thankfull there has been some change in our society.

But wonder about republicans.

From a 77 yr old honkie.

About a dozen years ago we took the chunnel train from London to Paris. As I recall, it's about a 3 hour ride and you're under water only about 20 minutes. Most of the time you're crossing northern France to get to Paris.

We figured we'll never do it again, so let's go first class, which we did. Got served a nice lunch, with wine. We arrived in more-or-less central Paris, with just a brief taxi ride to our hotel.

On the train, our assigned seats faced backward, which I hate. The car was half-empty, so we switched to forward-facing seats. Maybe 15-18 years ago we took a train from Oslo to Stockholm. Our only reason for taking a train rather than a plane was to see the countryside. Our seats not only faced backward, we had no window, and all the other seats were taken. Worse yet, there were drunken young people raising noisy hell.

Earlier, I told the conductor we wanted to go to Stockholm, and he told us where to get off and change trains. When we got to that place, it was out in the country, growing dark, and deserted. I said, "We aren't getting off here". Our train's destination was Stockholm. Perhaps the conductor didn't understand English.

He makes the point that there are no living witnesses to the endeavor, so "I couldn't do any interviewing". Of course, he means of eyewitnesses; he did a lot of interviewing of railroad historians, buffs, etc.

In the Introduction, an interesting observation by (ex-Union general) Grenville Dodge that the railroad could not have been built without Civil War veterans and their experience. "It was the war", says Ambrose, "that taught them to think big, how to organize grand projects, how to persevere". That thought had not occurred to me.

Why is America no longer a world leader in passenger railroad transit? Obvious answers include the vastness of our continent and the invention of the automobile and airplane. If we're going short distances, we typically drive. For longer distances or if we're in a hurry, we fly.

Many places in Europe and elsewhere were laid out before the automobile was invented. So when you drive to your destination, the streets may be barely wide enough to accommodate one car, and there's no place to park. The obvious answer: Take the train.

We do seem to have one good passenger train, the Acela between Boston and New York (speaking of places where there's no place to park!). It averages close to 80 m.p.h. (very slow by Japanese standards). When a derailment occurs, as it will, publicity will surely be abundant. (Auto manufacturers and airlines buy lots of advertising in the media. Railroads virtually none.)

On Ambrose's use of the term "argonaut": It seems to me an indefensible affectation. My newer dictionary, no slouch, does not list it. The older one, a tome weighing maybe 10 pounds, has this as its second definition (after the Greek mythological Jason and the argonauts): "One in search of something, esp. of something dangerous and rewarding; an adventurer".

Just found this: Bottom of p. 45.

Laselburn, are you saying that you were an antique even in 1940? LOL!

My love for trains comes from a family of railway employees. My ggrandfather was a roundhouse worker as a blacksmith and he invented a spike puller for his company, Lake Erie and Western, but never applied for a patent. Of couse, someone else did because they were used everywhere.

Back to this question as to route. I wonder if the Lewis and Clarke expedition results had something to do with the route chosen also? The shortest route wasn't the best route except that it would have made an even bigger port of New Orleans and brought a lot of money to the south. Already, Atlanta was a railway center and still is today. Isn't that why Sherman burned Atlanta?

On Lincoln's ability to pick Glenville Dodge's brain, Dodge said, "He shelled my woods completely and got all the information I'd collected". Lincoln, like a very recent President, seems to be a "quick study" who can compartmentalize his brain. That is, he could shut out slavery and the other issues of the day and concentrate entirely, when necessary, on something like railroad matters. (It is pointed out later that railroads were always second on Lincoln's mind, behind slavery.)

At age 22, Lincoln was a strong advocate for railroads, but had never seen one!

Rather feisty of him to sue his client, the Illinois Central, and win. Apparently the IC thought enough of him to retain him as their lawyer anyway? That point is not clear to me.

On the necessary engineering (p. 25). We tend to think of building the transcontinental railway as a gigantic task of laying track, blasting tunnels, etc. (The book's cover sleeve encourages this notion.) But the engines and cars themselves had to be redesigned, almost reinvented, and then tested for reliability, before or while track was being laid.

Yet, what about the people born circa 1840, who won (or lost) the Civil War, endured economic privation, and went on to build, under hardships we can never imagine, the railroad we are discussing and a good share of the American society we live in? Can anyone consider them less than contenders for the title, "greatest" generation? You, maybe. Not me.

It will make the book more interesting, if you have the bucks and time, to ride AMTRAK's California Zephyr. You don't have to go all the way from to San Francisco to Chicago.

But the section from Sacramento to Reno over the Sierra is outstanding!

From Salt Lake City to Denver is also awsome.

Wife and I also love the one o'night Sacramento to Grand Junction, CO trip. But at our age we need a bedroom.

Try it. You will like it.

After the war I think there was more to it than the degree of construction difficulty and initial construction cost. I don’t know how detailed the 1865 economic studies were, but I suspect that even if the post civil war alternate routes had been subject to today’s economic evaluations using the 1865 input conditions, the Platte river route would have won.

Answering another question. "What is a 4-4-0? " That is the wheel alignment of the steam locomotive of the period. In other words, four large driving wheels preceded by a pilot truck of four wheels, with no other wheels under the cab of the engine. The picture on the front dust cover portrays this better than I can explain. This particular style of steam locomotive became known as an American Type.

I think the real purpose (not Eisenhower's necessarily) was to provide a massive amount of work for roadbuilders and generate a massive appetite for cars. In other words, money.

Ginny: I began trying to edit the heading on my #99 immediately after posting, well within the 30 minute limit. But it wouldn't work. Perhaps the heading was just too long?

Henry mentions a long drive over the great plains, with few gas stations, in the '60s. I was driving in the middle of South Dakota one night, low on gas, couldn't find a filling station. Finally had to park in some little town, adjacent to a gas station, and go to sleep until the station opened next morning.

We took Amtrak from Chicago to San Francisco about 10 years ago. If I had it to do over, I'd fly to Denver and take Amtrak to S.F. Not much scenery in Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska.

I am dissappointed with the Barnes and Noble class but will persist as I always expect things to get better.

I did just read about Brunnel who was the son of a French engineer who migrated to the US, couldn't find enough engineering challenges here so went to England. He and his son are well known in England for bridges and trains, I believe.

I am so thrilled to be reading some of the expert historical opinions here. I am like Ginny, in that my interest is that I love trains and their history. I don't own models, or a collection of books on the subject, but I do enjoy remembering what I heard as a child.

We took a trip last summer on the Rocky Moutaineer and VIA, across Canada, and now I see three trips here mentioned that I definitely want to attempt.

If my memory serves me right: Crocker founded Crocker National Bank in SF, Huntingdon had much to do with banking and also the Huntington Library in LA, Stanford, of course, the university and Mark Hopkins probably did other things but all that I can think of is the Mark Hopkins Hotel in SF. After doing a little reading about Mark Hopkins, I find that his money came from the railroads that he helped to finance. The hotel was built on the old Hopkins property, probably after he died.

Now, most of you may already know this, but quite frankly, I needed a reminder which is geared to high schoolers since that's the last time I heard it, in a Physics class.

Now I have to get back to re-reading the rest of chaps. 1 and 2.

It was a wood burner with a quaint funnel stack with 40” drivers of Baldwin make packing approximately 150 HP. In bold white letters “Corpus Christi” was embossed on its tender.

In reading the links that I put up, I have come across mucho info on the Chinese. Velly interesting, as Charlie Chan would say!

Ambrose said, "...it must be doubted that ever before had such a desirable place" (California) "been so isolated" (page 53). I quickly thought of Hawaii, but I wonder if New York to Hawaii would have been any farther? If I'm reading my atlas right, Hawaii is about 20 degrees north latitude, California about 35. If you have to go around the horn, might Hawaii even be closer to New York than California is?

At that time, well before the interstates, driving from Minneapolis to Chicago was miserable: Lots of Wisconsin hills where you couldn't see ahead well enough to pass slow-poke drivers, scads of Wisconsin small towns where the U.S. highways invariably ran slowly down the main street of each town, where local merchants surely hoped you would stop and spend money. No wonder that most people, even those who owned a car, chose to travel by streamliner!

Then, alas, came the interstates. In Congress, Senators from every state, and representatives from most districts, had vocal constituents who had a serious financial interest in building the interstates. Road builders in every state. Auto manufacturers and dealers in every state and district. Oil companies. Those who supply all the things that cars require: tires, batteries, you name it. I don't see any way the building of the interstates could have been avoided politically, though I regretted it then and I regret it now.

You're right. Check out his neat little essay, "The legacy of the Middle Ages in the American Wild West," in Speculum XL (1965), 191-202. He says a Ms illumination of the 14th century shows the kind of strap suspension that James Gould put on the stagecoaches he built for the Butterfield Overland Mail."

It's amazing that just 150 years ago, it was not unusual for someone without formal training in some field to excel at it.

Harold, am wildly interested in the Kipling, never heard of it and think it would be a wonderful companion piece, please let us know if you find it, wonderful research!!

OK, so are we saying here that we think this a popular history? I'll tell you, I have a bit of trouble with the narrative flow, myself.

Just listened to a story about my Morrow relatives first Christmas in Rankin, IL where the railroad that they worked for(Lake Erie and Western(later the Nickelplate), moved its roundhouse in the early 1900's. A nice descripton of how the roundhouse worked by my uncle who made this tape for me back in 1978. Sniff, sniff, too much nostalgia!! But I loved it! This man was a wonderful storyteller.

We watched that PBS program on the Liners and really enjoyed it. I think some of those liners must have gone to Canada as we were on one with the vista cars and its wonderful. Came straight across Canada on it.

As to the freight companies owning the track, this is true in Canada also and we sat on a side track for two of the freight trains to pass but I didn't mind.

One of the things wrong with our Amtrak is that the track is not very well maintained. Without going into this whole story, we spent a couple of hours on the east coast Amtrak in '78, wallowing along at 75MPH, SCARY!! Now, I see where they have introduced a hi-speed train somewhere along the that same corrider and I am wondering if the tracks are any better.

I think one of the wonders is the transporting of all those engines, track, other supplies around the horn. How much could one ship carry?

My gosh, I can listen to Willie Nelson but not the other two! Pooh!

Casey Jones and fireman J.W.McKinnie pose with Casey's beloved XXX (hiding the numbers for those of you who want to guess) No. 638 in 1898, fresh out of the shops in Water Valley, Mississippi. the following year, Casey, while pulling the Cannonball with another Illinois Centeral locomotive, rode to his legendary doom?

You got me, I would pick that one, it's the WHEELS you're supposed to be looking at, sharp eyed Ann! hahahahaa

I dunno, that number is very clear in this photo in the book and it's HUGE??

What do you think? They better not mess with US! hahahaha

ginny

But only in passing are we told that the airplane and automobile were gaining popularity and that the government was allocating truly massive amounts of money to the building of airports and interstate highways.

Railroads did not commit suicide. They were murdered. True, given their public-be-damned attitude in their early years, perhaps they deserved to be murdered.

But I don't think the show was balanced at all.

The other supurb thing that makes this story come alive is the extensive newspaper research which colors in the text in the absence of diaries and other publications! Yes, yes, there are lots of names tossed of in these first chapters....but their roles become clearer as you go along in the book and it is easy to flip back and connect them as you go along. This was a huge undertaking, it needs a huge cast of characters. So far, the ones to really watch are Dodge, Crocker and Judah...and Lincoln of course. They have been given starring roles!

...a few more thoughts on these first chapters, and I want to read your posts too! Be right back!

Ginny, I have checked and rechecked those sites and I still think that those names were all applied to Casey Jones's engine at one time or another. By the way, I couldn't get your clickable to work. I don't think that the Wabash Cannonball is about that particular train. Something else to search about! LOL!!

Yes, Ginny, Mr Judah was amazingly focused. I can't believe his obsession which made him try to find a better route for the RR's. Do we have anyone in the world to compare to him today? Well, maybe. They are few and far between. We have idea men with engineers at their disposal to attempt to build what the idea men propose. But, that's just not the same. Maybe it was "in the air" of that time of our country. There was nothing we couldn't do.

Before the automatic air brake became standard, railroad brakemen scrambled across freight car roofs to apply mechanical brakes manually upon whistle-signaled commands from the engineer.

This dangerous occupation required men to be on the ladders and roofs of swaying, jerking cars, frequently in terrible conditions for extended periods of time.

Designed by Alexander Mitchell and built at the Baldwin Works in 1866, its name was applied to the wheel arrangement, and the Consolidation because the most ubiquitous steam locomotive in the United States.

First manufactured in 1837 in Philadelphia, it was widely used for both passenger and freight service, and was so common that in 1870, 85 percent of the U.S. locomotives were of that type; 20,000 were built between 1840 and 1890.

The first Pacific type configuration was built by the Vulcan Iron Works in Wilks-Barre , Pennsylvania in 1886. The earliest "classic" was built in 1901 by the Baldwin Works for export to New Zealand (New Zealand "Q" Class). In 1902 some were built for the Missouri Pacific and it is not know which of these two orders christened the type "Pacific."

The first Prairies were built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1885 and many others were built for the American Midwest, hence the name. This type never achieved wide popularity in the U.S., but was popular with the logging and branch lines. The final American Pairie was built in 1910, but the wheel arrangement remained popular on many Eastern European lines iand in Britain. No 4771 Green Arrow is preserved at the National Railway Museum, in York, England.

I could find no indication by Ambrose that they purchased this land so does that mean that their road would be built on the railroad right of way that they hoped Judah would managed to obtain from the government?

2-8-0 "saddle tank" engine, designed for helper service up the seitchback in Raton Pass in 1878. It was named for "Uncle Dick" Wootton, an ornery character who controlled a toll road near the pass and cooperated in the building of the tunnel that eliminate the need for his namesake locomotive.

MORMON WAR. -- We give a large portion of our paper to-day to the contents of an extra, issued at the request of the Governor, by the Missouri Watchman, containing the evidence on which he has ordered out the troops. We had several reports from that quarter yesterday. -- The most authentic is, that a skirmish had occurred between the Mormons and citizens near the line of Ray county, in which ten of the citizens were killed and a number taken prisoners. This is but rumor, however, and may or may not be true. There are so many reports it is almost impossible to know what to believe or what to reject. -- Missouri Republican of November 2d.

One angry passenger protested that not a single passenger traveling by train in the United States "has not been annoyed, and either had his flesh or clothing burnt."

An unobstructed draft was necessary for good steaming; an effective spark arrester necessarily obstructed the draft.

The answer lay in the bonnet stack with it's distinctive funnel shape, named for the wire screen or netting arched over it's top.The funnel-shaped outer casting, more than 5 feet in diameter at the top is a hopper for holding cinders.

Invented in 1831, it became one of the most distinctive features of the nineteen century American locomotive. By the 1890s they were abandoned for inside smoke box designs.

Hey losalbern, if you hadn't raised the question we never would've known. And I too often wondered the purpose of them. Thanks.

Last night I fell asleep in front of the TV. I woke up during the news and there was a report of a freight train out west that had been blown over by the wind...over on its side! A large train too! Today I searched the papers and see nothing. Did I dream this? Is it windy where you are? It is in the East. How about out west?

I am amazed at the information that is here in our lowly site about the history of trains, in general. I feel that I am getting an education just reading the posts.

You are welcome, lasel! I have such fun searching for this wonderful right here on the net. I never cease to be thrilled at the links to the world that we all have, right from our homes! Talk about fast transportaion!

I have always been interested in what we will do when we finally wake up to our need for the return of trains, streetcars and trolleys to replace the bad air made by our cars, the crowds of road raged souls, trying to get to their destination. I actually enjoyed the underground in England and the subway in New York and intend, to follow that up, with the metro in D,C. Seems like you learn some patience and planning ahead from using public transportation.

Ginny asked about arrogant, insolent Southern members of Congress. I think it's only fair that we leave Jesse Helms and Phil Gramm (just two of many) out of our discussion. Not that Southern pols have a monopoly on those qualities.

Ginny also asked about switchbacks, and I didn't notice an answer. When you drive up Mount Hood, Pike's Peak, or any other major mountain, you don't go straight up the side; not even a Jeep (despite their ads) could do that. You go left, right, left, right, breaking the climb into little increments that your vehicle can handle. Railroads do the same. That's my understanding of switchbacks.

In her #141, I believe Ginny mentioned 6 years for the railroad, start to finish. That seems to be true of the construction period, but the planning, politicking, money-raising began several years earlier.

I am wondering why Judah and others, traveling to and from the east coast to California, didn't travel overland by horse(s) rather than sail to Panama? Surely it would be quicker. Too much desert? Too dangerous because of indians?

Why do the Sierra Nevadas get so much attention (so far) and the Rockies so little? Surely the Rockies were no piece of cake.

On tunnels: The clickable in Ann's #115 is sensational. I printed out the whole 8 pages. First page shows two parallel tunnels! One for east and one for west? Hadn't they heard of sidings, where one train can get out of the other's way? Or couldn't they communicate well enough to avoid head-ons?

I have other thoughts and questions, but this is enough for now.

I just figured out the tunnel picture! It's a stereoscope or stereopticon (or whatever they called those things we used to look through 50 years ago)! The two pictures are identical! It's all one tunnel! The rock formations and colors are identical in both!

The word "draw" has 29 definitions in my paperback dictionary, 26 as verbs, 3 as nouns. I suspect Judah had the first definition in mind when he said, "We have drawn the elephant. Now let us see if we can harness him": to cause to move in a particular direction by or as if by pulling.

A "coupler must be capable of not only pulling the next car and all the following cars, but also of pushing on a backing train, being coupled and uncoupled, and withstanding the stresses of the impacts of buffing and slack action (the tendencies of cars to bang together or jerk apart). The infamous Link and Pin Couplers maimed many early railroaders. The brakeman's hazardous job was to guide the chain link into the slot in the adjacent car as the locomotive moved slowly. The invention of the automatic knuckle coupler made this occupational hazard a thing of the past." ( The Encyclopedia of Trains and Locomotives)

Ginny,

I believe that non-articulated means no breaks in the whole engine and it looks like that engine didn't have the wheels that are on the American trains that give it the ability to turn without the cab turning. I saw your train encyclopedia at B&N last week and had to slap my hand and not buy it! Did you see the one on stations, roundhouses, and something else? To die for!

This discussion has become the most interesting on the B&L Site except for deToque's tome!

I loved Johnny Cash's song about dying. Especially the bit about seeing the bad guys in hell! He does some good stuff!

Cow-catcher: (U.S.)
An apparatus fixed in front of a locomotive engine, to remove straying cattle or other obstructions from the rails in front of a train.


1838 Railway Mag. Mar. 185 This machine is used..in the United States, and is termed a 'cow or horse catcher'. 1853 Rep. Comm. Patents 1852 (U.S.) I. 64 Cow-catcher. 1861 G. F. BERKELEY Sportsm. W. Prairies iv. 60 The cow-catcher is a strong iron fence, or set of bars, springing out from the engine in front of both fore wheels. 1884 Philada. Times No. 3041. 2 Cow-catchers for street cars.

HELPER: Additional "helper" locomotives are added to freight trains (must be still going on??) to help them over the mountains, giving this railroad town the name Helper (just like Rambler said). Local coal is plentiful enough to supply the U.S. for 300 years....

On the eastern end of the tunnel, to the left of the train, is Donner Lake. it was here that the Donner Party, led by George and Jacob Donner, was stranded.

These 89 Illinois settlers were en route to California when they were trapped in a snowstorm near the western shore of the lake.

After many attempts to escape, all but 47 of the pioneers died of starvation. Those who did survive had resorted to cannibalism.

I don't think there's bus service to those destinations either. We took taxis, which are quite reasonable in D.C. Footweary, we even took a taxi from the White House to our hotel, which was only four blocks away!

The Metro does provide good service to Arlington National Cemetery and, I think, the Smithsonian and many other tourist attractions.

No tales, Ginny on the brakeman's job. I just discovered this fact while listening to my "Uncle Bill" tapes.

I am afraid I just spent the better part of the afternoon at B&N reading those other two books, Ginny. Saw the engine #638 that was indeed, Casey Jones' special engine for pulling freight trains. When he had to do the passenger train, he was switched to the Cannonball that crashed. I looked at the build of the engines and they are definitely similar but their numbers are different. Then, I read the history of #638. Too much info! BUUUUUUT, I fell into the Encyclopedia and couldn't remove myself so it is now residing here in the computer room. I am a sucker for special encyclopedias. I ammmmmm so weak!!

I can't find any explanation of the "articulated locomotives" but the ones that I saw pictures of didn't have those front wheel trucks either. So what does "articulated" mean. In my dictionary, meaning #12 says, to unite by a joint or joints. I was thinking of a catapillar! So, does that mean the coal car which seems to be connected to the engine by a "joint" means that the locomotive is articulated? Got me!

Judah was a born genius at publicity, at pushing projects, at persuasiveness, At Anna’s suggestion, he made the room into the Pacific Railroad Museum, displaying maps, diagrams, surveys, reports, and other data, as well as her collection and paintings. He had it complete by January 14, 1860, and from then until he left for California a half a year later he was in his words, “constantly engaged in endeavoring to further the passage of a Pacific Railroad bill.”

To meet the special needs of heavy freight traffic in some countries, notably the United States, greater tractive effort was obtained by using two separate engine units under a common boiler. The front engine was articulated, or hinge-connected to the frame of the rear engine, so that the very large locomotive could negotiate curves. The articulated locomotive was originally a Swiss invention, with the first built in 1888. The largest ever built was the Union Pacific's Big Boy, used in mountain freight service in the western United States. Big Boy weighed more than 600 short tons, including the tender. It could exert 135,400 pounds of tractive force and developed more than 6,000 horsepower at 70 mile/h.

Famous and Well Known Articulated Steam Locomotives
Railroad Line Wheel Arrangement Class Road Numbers Quantity

Norfolk & Western 2-6-6-4 A 1200-1242 43
Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 CSA, 4664 3800-3839, 3950-3964, 3930-3999 105
Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-6 H-8 1600-1659 60
Northern Pacific 2-8-8-4 Z-5 5000-5011 12
Southern Pacific 2-8-8-4 AC-9 3800-3811 12
Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range 2-8-8-4 M-3,4 220-237 18
Baltimore & Ohio 2-8-8-4 EM-1 7600-7629 30
Southern Pacific 4-8-8-2 AC-4-12 4100-4294 195
Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 4884-1,2 4000-4024 25


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Harold, T. Judah is such a fascinating character in all of this...would you agree the most??? This had escaped me~

"Judah was appointed as Secretary to the Senate Pacific Railroad Committee This gave him an official status as an officer of the senate committee working on the legislation."

What a lobbyist! I'd want him on my side, any day! I like to hear that he is still appreciated today...Faith's local elementary school bears his name...

Look forward to hearing of Kipling's experience to get the feel of what the first train journies must have been like! Thanks so much for all of this, Harold!

thank you so much for that very expansive explanation of "articulated". I was going to look it up here today but husband has decided to take the day off so I won't be able to get to the desk until later. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Harold

I am looking forward to Kipling's journey description. It will be interesting to see what he liked and disliked about train travel in the US.

"...you left out the most important step that would make the skies friendlier and ease the congestion: constructing high-speed rail systems to serve the needs currently met by short airline flights of only a few hundred miles. We don't need to build more airports and add runways. A short trip between urban centers (say, Chicago and Detroit) on high-speed rail would be as fast as or faster than a short-haul plane flight. Let's put our tax money into a transportation system that would be faster, more efficient, better for the environment and less affected by the weather than airline travel."

As a Chicagoan, I can attest that other rail routes may be worth upgrading: Chicago to St. Louis, Chicago to Indianapolis. I think Chicago to Milwaukee already has high speed rail service. (The distance is only 90 miles.) It can take close to an hour just to get from downtown Chicago to O'Hare airport on the el(evated)/subway, longer sometimes by taxi.

Rambler, what a unique idea! Trains to large airports! LOL! It will happen but probably not in my lifetime! Amtrak has just initiated a high speed train from Boston to New York, I believe. What a treat! In Atlanta, one can travel from any station that Marta serves to the Airport. It is very popular as it saves parking fees when you are going on a long trip. They can be very steep. In Chicago, this can also be accomplished and I believe that Robby did that last year when we went to Chicago with the Seniornet group. I am not sure of the Metro in DC or the subway in NYC.

I have just started on the 4th chapter but will get back here sometime tomorrow. Husband Ralph has taken 4 days off from work so he can finish his remodeling of the basement. He's the White Tornado!! I hate to think of what he could do if he were a well man! Tee Hee!!

Eastward then to Montana I took my way for the Yellowstone National Park, called in the guide-books “Wonderland.” But the real Wonderland began on the train. We were a merry crew. One gentleman announced his intention of paying no fare and grappled the conductor, who neatly cross-buttocked him trough a double plate-glass window. His head was cut open in four or five places. A doctor on the train hastily stitched up the biggest gash and he was dropped at a wayside station, spurting blood at every hair- a scarlet and ghastly site. The conductor guessed that he would die, and volunteered the information that there was no profit in monkeyng with the North Pacific Railway. (Chapter VII, Pages 76-77).

We stopped at Pasco Junction, and a man told me that it was the Queen City of the Prairie. I wish Americans didn’t tell such useless lies. I counted fourteen or fifteen frame houses and a portion of a road that showed like a bruise on the untouched surface of the blue sage, running away and away up to the setting sun. (Chapter VII, Page 77).

There was a row in our car toward morning, a man having managed to get querulously drunk in the night. Up rose a Cornishman with a red head full of strategy, and strapped the obstreperous one smiling largely as he did so, and a delicate little woman in a far bunk watched the fray and called the drunken man a “dammed hog,” which he certainly was, though she needn’t have put it quite so coarsely. (Chapter VII, Page 77).

Later we laid our bones down to crossing the Rockies. An American train can climb up the side of a house if need be, but it is not pleasant to sit in it. We clomb till we struck violent cold and an Indian reservation. And the noble savage came to look at us. He was a Flathead and unlovely. Most Americans are charmingly frank about the Indian. “Let us get rid of him as soon as possible,” they say. “We have no use for him.” Some of the men I meet have the notion that we in India are exterminating the native in the same fashion, and I have been asked to fix a date for the final extinguishments of the Arian. I answer that it will be a long business. (Chapter VII, Pages 77 – 78)

But this is beside the manner, which is the Stampede Tunnel- our actual point of crossing the Rockies. Thank Heaven, I need never take that tunnel again! It is about two miles long, and in effect is nothing more than a gallery of a mine shored with timber and lighted with electric lamps. Black darkness would be preferable, for the lamps just reveal the rough cutting of the rocks, and that is very rough indeed. The train crawls through, brakes down, and you can hear the water and little bits of stone falling on the roof of the car. Then you pray, pray fervently, and the air gets stiller, and you dare not take your unwilling eyes off the timber shoring, lest a prop should fall for lack of your moral support. (Chapter VII, Page 78).

I was listening to yarns in the smoking compartment of the Pullman, all the way to Helena, and with very few exceptions each had for its point, violent, brutal, and ruffianly murder- murder by fraud and the craft of the savage- murder unavenged by the law, or at the most by an outbreak of fresh lawlessness. ……….. One man in particular distinguished himself by holding up to admiration the exploits of some cowboys of his acquaintance, and their skill in the use of the revolver. ……….. Each tale of horror wound up with “and that sort of man he was,” as who should say: “Go and do likewise.” Remember that the shootings, the cuttings, and the stabbings were not the outcome of any species of legitimate warfare; the heroes were not forced to fight for their lives. Far from it. The brawls were bred by liquor in which they assisted- in saloons and gambling-hells they were wont to “pull their guns” on a man, and in the vast majority of cases without provocation. The tales sickened me, but taught one thing. A man who carries a pistol may be put down as a coward- a person to be shut out from every decent mess and club, and gathering of civilized folks. There is neither chivalry nor romance in the weapon, for all that American authors have seen fit to write. I would I could make you understand the full measure of contempt which certain aspects of Western life have inspired me. (Chapter VII, Pages 78 – 79)

One contemporary reviewer claimed that Kipling arrived in San Francisco equipped with keen powers of observation, numerous clever and original tricks of expression and a genuine prejudice against anything American.

When we arrive at O'Hare, we get on the el and ride to the first stop. It's nearer our home and there's always a lineup of taxis. At O'Hare, you may wait a long time for a suburban taxi to arrive.

Wow, Kipling just told it like it was. The ruffians who rode the trains seemed to be quite articulate. I liked his description of the his fellow passengers and hope to find this book for a read. Different strokes for different folks!

I read the 4th chapter last night and found it to be very revealing when it came to the first trust in American. Just the beginning, wasn't it?

two separate engine units under a common boiler. The front engine was articulated, or hinge-connected to the frame of the rear engine, so that the very large locomotive could negotiate curves.

I thought the perfection of rapid transit had been reached. We traveled at least eighteen miles an hour when at full speed, and mde the whole distance averaging as much as twelve miles an hour. This seemed like annihilating space.--Grant

"On November 4, 1864 Linclon approved the first hundred miles of the permanent location of the tracks...as directed by the bill, he set the gauge at four feet eight and a half inches, the so-called 'standard gauge,' urged on him by Eastern railroaders."

Was that the thinking of Lincoln and other northerners?

 

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The man who dreamt up Credit Mobilier was pretty slick. If the railroad had never been finished, his company would still have received money from the government subsidies. By having the railroad hire his company, send the money(which they received from the government) to his construction company where it was sent on to Credit Mobilier which didn't really exist. So the taxpayers money(the government subsidies) went to the stock holders in the railroad. I think this is right! Anyone else there who can explain this better?

I believe that I left something out of my understanding of the Credit Mobilier. It was the sale of stock involved. I really don't understand that part, Ginny! Unless, the stockholders on receiving monies for construction, could purchase stock at lower price and then resell it for more? Ughhhhhh! Is there a test later? I hope not!

Why is it that so many people posed for photographs back then with their hands in their coats? Did they all have angina?

In reference to the class that I was taking at Barnes&Noble University, the posters there did not like the book and found it wanting in the historical genre. There is another book that they used for reference which I am looking for right now.

"he (Lincoln) said (to some congressmen) that he would hurry it up so that when he retired from the presidency he could take a trip over it, it would be the proudest thing of his life that he had signed the bill in aid of its construction."

The American Locomotive Company built 88 of these large freight locomotives for the Union Pacific starting in 1926. The 'Nines' as they were called on the UP proved to be remarkably versatile engines.

This is a three-cylinder locomotive; the third cylinder is wedged in the center of the steam chest between the two conventional cylinders. This extra cylinder drove an eccentric in the axle of the second pair of drivers for smoother application of power to the rails.

Originally, the fourth set of drivers were flangeless (for rounding tight curves) but this proved unnecessary. These engines (#9000 was the first built) hauled 120-car trains across the flatlands of Nebraska at 50 mph with comparative ease, their overall efficiency besting the Mallets they replaced by some 80% !

Brunel lost his biggest parliamentary battle for the adoption of seven-foot railway tracks, in the famous Battle of the Gauges in 1846. Most British lines were four feet, eight and one half inches wide simply because that had been the width of mine carts for which the first rails were laid. Brunel and Daniel Gooch proved that trains ran faster and more comfortably on rails seven feet apart. But they were out numbered by lines using the conventional width. Today we are still riding on the mine cart gauge.

The Engineer sailed in genuine Brunel style with his wife, son and personal physician, a reference library, a carriage load of scientific instruments and three hundred weight of hams, tongues, soap and candles. During a Mediterranean mistral the doctor was moaning in his bunk below while the invalid was braced on the careening paddle box measuring the Beaufort force of the storm and the roll of the steamer. (Dugan, John, “The Great Iron Ship,” P36).

and another Train Blues

I would like to hear from our railroad buffs on this matter.

Despite the clearly established standard gauge of 4 feet 8 1/2 inches, Brunel disregarded all warnings and advice and insisted on a broad gauge of 7 feet for the Great Western. Even in 1835, it was becoming obvious that the various rail lines spreading through out Great Britain would eventually need to be knitted together into a connecting system, and the proposed broad gauge of the GWR would put it at a disadvantage. Initial construction costs would be higher for both right of way and rolling stock as well.

Brunel prevailed on the matter of gauge , however, and also pursued a fetish for easy grades, further causing construction difficulties….The Great Western system ultimately included 600 miles of broad gauge track, 230 miles of mixed gauge, and 420 miles of narrow gauge.

Brunel's vision was in question as this mixture of gauges proved to be a serious handicap. Shippers signed petitions requesting standardization because wide gauge goods wagons were rarely filled and were therefore uneconomical to use. The GWR began to convert to standard gauge in 1868 and finished in 1892, thus ending the battle of the gauges in Great Britain.

All over the world, different countries experimented with different gauges. Aa individual rail lines began to merge and connect into transportation systems, however, connecting lined of differing gauges were at a competitive disadvantage. Cargo had to be unloaded (usually by hand) from the cars of one gauge to the cars of another. Passengers had to disembark from their trains, often in the middle of the night, and reboard the next train. This was both inconvenient and costly.

In England, a gauge differential between broad and standard gauge at Gloucester inspired a popular expression, "Lost at Gloucester," which became the universal explanation of anything mislaid on the British rail system.

Ella called last night and they are home safe. Dick came down with pneumonia and spent a night in the hospital but is better now. They arrived on Tuesday night. He has a Monday appointment with his doctor.

JoanP, the last photo is a fantastic example of the articulated lomotive. Very defined, I believe!

I am in the middle of Chapter V and find it just so dry that I had to quit reading for awhile.

(I wanted you to see it as the duchess has it. When I put it into my files the graphics don't go.)

Louise, I wish that I could listen to your wonderful music but I only get RealAudio in my MAC.

Harold, would I be looking south or a little south east if I were the photographer?

"Judah spoke of the Central Pacific as 'my railroad,' but it wasn't, any more than the railroads back east he had built or the Scramento Valley Railroad were his..." ( did I just spy a grammar error on Dr. Ambrose's part?)

"He had thought of it, dreamed of it, laid out the line for it, gone to Washington to convince the Congress and the Persident to get behind it. He had invited in the men who financed it. But it wasn't his."

……. Harold don't you DARE tell till I get in here, ;;;;;

Probably the confusion is that there isn't any hinged boiler -- what pivots is separate frames each with sets of wheels and cylinders.

In one design, there is a short frame with one set of wheels and cylinders hinged to a second longer frame with a second set of wheels and cylinders, also supporting the boiler and cab. This is illustrated at the bottom of pages 16-17 of the "Eyewitness Book: Trains" published by Knopf.

The powerful articulated Beyer-Garratt type locomotive later used in countries in Africa, as wellas India, Australia and Britain.The front of the Beyer-Garratt engine showing a separate power unit

 

Wait for the Wagon  

R. Bishop Buckley  
Chorus: 
Wait for the wagon, 
Wait for the wagon, 
Wait for the wagon, 
And we'Il all take a ride.  
1. Will you come with me, my Phyllis dear, 
To yon blue mountain free ? 
Where the blossoms smell the sweetest, 
Come rove along with me. 
Chorus:  

It's every Sunday morning, 
When I am by your side, 
We'll jump into the wagon 
And all take a ride. 
Chorus:  

2. Where the river runs like silver 
And the birds they sing so sweet, 
I have a cabin, Phyllis, 
And something good to eat;  

Come listen to my story, 
It will relieve my heart; 
So jump into the wagon, 
And off we will start. 
Chorus:  

3. Do you believe, my Phyllis, dear, 
Old Mike, with all this wealth, 
Can make you half so happy 
As I, with youth and health?  

We'Il have a little farm, 
A horse, a pig and a cow; 
And you will mind the dairy, 
While I do guide the plough. 
Chorus:  

4. Your lips are red as poppies, 
Your hair so slick and neat, 
All braided up with dahlias, 
And hollyhocks so sweet.  
It's ev'ry Sunday morning, 
When I am by your side, 
We'Il jump into the wagon, 
And all take a ride. 
Chorus:  

5. Together, on life's journey, 
We'll travel till we stop, 
And if we have no trouble, 
We'll reach the happy top;  

Then come with me, sweet Phyllis, 
My dear, my lovely bride, 
We'Il jump into the wagon, 
And all take a ride. 
Chorus:  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
1. Our wagon's plenty big enough; 
It's running gear is good. 
'Tis stuffed with cotton round its sides 
And made of Southern wood.  
Chorus: 
Wait for the wagon, 
The new Jeff Davis wagon. 
The South is our wagon, 
And we'll all take a ride.  

2. Carolina is the driver, 
With Georgia by her side. 
Virginia will hold our flag up, 
And we'll all take a ride. 
Chorus: 

I still have a problem with this site. It loads the header, completely, very fast, 2 seconds or less. Then it slows to a halt and just keeps trying to load but never makes it. I have to click on the location bar several times at the end of the URL to get it to load completely. Still happening!

Back to the rail gauge, I wanted to tell you all the story that we read while in London in the early '90's. Seems that when France got done building their side of the Chunnel and England finished their's, they discovered that they didn't have the same track gauge so couldn't hook up. It was a major mess!

Ginny, I have that other book being held at the library and I will pick it up today. See ya later!

PS: Tell me something, Historians? What is the most important thing about history? Is it knowing that something happened or why it happened or what caused it to happen? Do you need to know all three, can you ever know all three and how important is it to try?

I looked into finding more on Judah in the "Empire Builders" book and they pretty much say the same thing that Ambrose says about Judah. The author comments that there is no written record as to what Judah intended to do. Just hints from his letters to others that he was planning to take over the railroad.

Having been acquainted with people like Judah, I would say that he became obsessed with his railroad and when things didn't go the way he expected them to go, he wanted the people who were not doing things the way that he thought they should be done, to leave, to get out of the RR business. Of course, they were trying to make a killing in building the roads and charging a toll to use them plus starting the Credit Moblier but they did use their own money down to the last penny. Venture capitolists, they were and, not the first.

Did you know that Whitney, from the East, was related to the inventor of the cotton gin. Fifth cousins, no less.

The absence of fences along many of the early tracks made it essential to protect the front of a locomotive, which could easily be derailed by large animals such as buffalo. A cowcatcher pushed the animal aside. With the help of bells, whistles, and large headlights, collisions were kept to a minimum.

In 1830, Tom Thumb, a small experimental locomotive, made its first run on the 13 mile completed section of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. Tom Thumb also entered into a celebrated race, seen in this illustration, with a horse-drawn train. The horse won.

Did you make a change to the heading? Again, today, I am having trouble loading this site. Long delays or just not loading past the header without reload or clicking on the location. Wha hoppened?

I still stick with my view of Judah of being obsessed with "his railroad". So what, if he was obsessed, it doesn't make any difference because he had the good of the railroad building in his mind. When someone like that is "stonewalled", as he was, they often think their project is going to go down the tubes if they don't make a change in the management.

I still stick with my view of Judah of being obsessed with "his railroad". So what, if he was obsessed, it doesn't make any difference because he had the good of the railroad building in his mind. When someone like that is "stonewalled", as he was, they often think their project is going to go down the tubes if they don't make a change in the management.

Often the big surprise that happens when producing something is that what you had planned to make the focal point of the entire work becomes altogether marginal. It takes a funny kind of brave humility to take a backseat and let the work proceed in its own direction. ---Jeff Shapiro

A friend loaned me an old paper back entitled "The Big Four" by Oscar Lewis. After reading the chapters about Judah and his relationship with the 4, I have concluded that I was incorrect to give the 4 too much credit for the development of the CP line. They were driven by profit motive where Judah's obsession dealt mainly with the good of the nation.

If Lincoln could have invented a better showcase for the raw power of wage-earning labor, compared to anything done by slave labor, nothing in the US then could have touched it.

Wonderful comment on the times. Everyone seems to have been so excited by the building of this line and the telegraph kept the people back home in D.C. apprised of every move that was made.

Can you imagine standing on your own property and hearing someone, outside of your family, tell you that you don't own the land, the US government does. Lets see, couldn't that happen to any of us? Eminent domain? Seems the government could have acted in a more civilized way, but they considered the Indian population trespassers here in America. And, they did sign and break many treaties with the Indians. Yes, Ginny, this is a touchy subject.

Isn't the 2 per cent grade the same thing as when you put a roof on a house with a rise? For every foot you go forward, you can only rise so many inches from the flat area? I must ask the engineer in the family.

I tried to read all of the 40 pages put in here by Miss Ginny about Judah but just couldn't get through them. He was so focused and sure of his project that no one was going to stop him, That's what I call real enthusiasm! And doesn't it take that steadfast belief in a project to get it accomplished?

You mentioned somewhere back a day or two that there were no maps but in looking at a wonderful book that I stole from my mom, I found some maps for the people who were trying to get to the West and elsewhere. I will include just a piece of one along with some commentary from the mapster, in an email to you. This book is so big, titled "Historical Atlas of the United States" it is published by the National Geographic Society. I need a handcart to carry it around the house and upstairs.

What the 2% means is that as they lay the rails from point A to Point B(based on 100 feet of track and going from left to right), the angle of the track rise from A to B cannot be more than 2%. Its a reverse right triangle with the 90 degree corner being on your right. Have I confused you some more? LOL!

Having visited both the Biltmore and Hearst Castle several times, I found the Hearst Castle the more interesting but the grounds that the Biltmore sits with the gardens are just too gorgeous. That whole area of North Carolina is special! Can't wait to return for a visit on our way thru to Fripp Island.

Ginny,

If you copy the picture that I sent you of the map leave the writing in,(if you can read it) as it explains the map and the times the people were living in pretty well.

Did anyone else use the links from the site that Ginny gave us about the Rock Island Line? The owner of the site is a real train buff and goes to all train get togethers and photographs them. What a collection! Much fun to peruse!!

ROCK ISLAND LINE
(Huddie Ledbetter)
JOHNNY CASH (Sun, recorded 1957)


Now this here is the story about the Rock Island Line
Well, the Rock Island Line she runs down into New Orleans
There's a big toll-gate down there
And you know when you got certain things on board
When you go through the toll-gate
Well, you don't have to pay the man no toll
Well, a traindriver, he pulled up to the toll-gate
And the man hollered nicely what all he had on board
And he said:

I got live stock, I got live stock
I got cows, I got pigs, I got sheep
I got mules, I got all live stock
Well, they said, you're all right boy
You don't have to pay no toll
You just go right on through
So, he went on through the toll-gate
And as he went through...
He started pickin' up a little bit of speed
Pickin' up a little bit of steam
He got on through and he turned to look back at the man And he said:
Well, I fooled you, I fooled you
I got pig iron, I got pig iron
I got all pig iron

Down the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride
Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line

Oh, cloudy in the west and it looks like rain
Around the curve comes a passenger train
Northbound train on a southbound track
He's already leaving, but he won't be back

Well the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride
Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line

Oh, I may be right and I may be wrong
But you're gonna miss me when I'm gone
Well the engineer said before he died
There are two more drinks that he'd like to try
The doctor said, what could they be
A hot cup of coffee and a cold glass of tea

Well the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride

Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line



(Original blues version by LEADBELLY (Capitol 15628, 1949)

---

And here is a site which tells the history of the Rock Island Line



(Don't suppose anybody happens to know who Huddie Ledbetter is?)

More....

ROCK ISLAND LINE
(Huddie Ledbetter)
JOHNNY CASH (Sun, recorded 1957)


Now this here is the story about the Rock Island Line
Well, the Rock Island Line she runs down into New Orleans
There's a big toll-gate down there
And you know when you got certain things on board
When you go through the toll-gate
Well, you don't have to pay the man no toll
Well, a traindriver, he pulled up to the toll-gate
And the man hollered nicely what all he had on board
And he said:

I got live stock, I got live stock
I got cows, I got pigs, I got sheep
I got mules, I got all live stock
Well, they said, you're all right boy
You don't have to pay no toll
You just go right on through
So, he went on through the toll-gate
And as he went through...
He started pickin' up a little bit of speed
Pickin' up a little bit of steam
He got on through and he turned to look back at the man And he said:
Well, I fooled you, I fooled you
I got pig iron, I got pig iron
I got all pig iron

Down the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride
Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line

Oh, cloudy in the west and it looks like rain
Around the curve comes a passenger train
Northbound train on a southbound track
He's already leaving, but he won't be back

Well the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride
Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line

Oh, I may be right and I may be wrong
But you're gonna miss me when I'm gone
Well the engineer said before he died
There are two more drinks that he'd like to try
The doctor said, what could they be
A hot cup of coffee and a cold glass of tea

Well the Rock Island Line, she's a might good road
Rock Island Line it's the road to ride

Rock Island Line is a mighty good road
Well if you ride it you gotta ride it like you find it
Get your ticket at the station for the Rock Island Line



(Original blues version by LEADBELLY (Capitol 15628, 1949)

---

And here is a site which tells the history of the Rock Island Line



(Don't suppose anybody happens to know who Huddie Ledbetter is?)

More....

I am so glad that you copied the upper print here as I thought it was just plain fun to read. Thanks!

I belong to the Ohio Historical Society and they publish one of the nicest magazines titled TIMELINE. This month has a very long article about the two Ohio engineers or contractors who worked on the Transcontinental. Lots of pictures although we have probably seen most of them. When we get to the Casement brothers, I will see if I can glean anymore info from this article. They were the contractors who prepared the beds for the track, I believe.

Try it.

One thing that I think I did read years ago, was that the British were the ones who addicted the Chinese to opium by paying for Chinese tea with opium. Anyone else know about that?

Missing Chinese Workers

Ginny, I found an article about the Chinese hanging in baskets but so far no historian can verify the baskets. For one thing the cliffs are not straight enough for hanging a basket over and the picture that we see everywhere is one that is used so often but was taken in China. Here's the article. Baskets?

The Signal Tower played an important role in safe railroad travel.

In the early days, trains were prevented from crashing into each other by running only at specific intervals.

People waving flags or batons signalled to the trains when it was safe to move on.

When a train had to change direction at a junction, the switches were manually operated.

The invention of the electric telegraph in the 1850's enabled towermen to send meassages to other signal towers along the lines.

This development led to each train being separated by a space interval, called a block. Signals and switches for each block were mechanically controlled from the signal tower.

The illustration shows a British Signal Tower with 40 levers in it's frame for operating signals and switches. The bell at the upper right sends coded messages (in the US Morse code was used) to other signal towers.

The red levers shown here are for stop and are pulled into the OFF or CLEAR position.

The blue levers are for locks on switches, the black levers control the switches themselves, and the white levers are spare.

Other instruments on top are "block instruments" which indicate to the towerman whetehr the line in either direction is empty or occupied by a train.

That thing looks like a heck of a lot of work for anybody to deal with, doesn't it?

---

Compare the Modern Dispatcher's Computer Office on which the strangest looking things are the wheels of the rolling chairs?

Altho very different in appearance from the old Signal Tower, signalling is still based on the BLOCK system. This modern system covers the tracks in many miles in each direction. A large screen in light green above the computers shows the switches and signals and the location aof all trains. Push-button controls activate signals and operate switches using electric motors.

Ginny

That picture of the second signal desk was very strange until I figured out what I was looking at. Looked like an arch on a bridge or over a river. Then, I spotted the spider legs of the chairs. Hahahaha!

The high-speed rail project is a forward-looking venture that could be crucial to our long-term economic prospects.

I understood that the horses would only go along the side, as was done with the canal boats.

"In the spring of 1853 Casement, 24 and already an experienced railroad

> builder, obtained a contract to ballast tracks for the Lake Shore RR. Ballast, > a layer of crushed stone or other material placed between and under the > crossties, provides a foundation and drainage for the tract. Crushed stone was > used on the best-built railroads, but many lines ie.Union Pacific, to save > money or speed initial construction, substituted gravel, cinders, or even dirt.

> " >Ginny

That's wonderful! I didn't know that they could be separated. Thanks much!

I saw that wreck on CNN when it happened. Fortunately, no one was killed(or maybe 2?) but many were taken to the hospitals. And, you are right, it just disappeared from the news scene. But isn't that what always happens? I thought it was an Amtrak train so I misunderstood.

Like Ginny, I read the article in US News about Amtrak's financial woes and their request for $30M for studying faster trains on top of the $28M they have already received since their beginnings in 1971. Where does it stop? I feel that we didn't have the confidence in saving our passenger trains way back and now we are trying to recover them as Europe has done. The train system there was never retired.

I am still having trouble loading this site. Many reloads required. Any ideas?

Isn't it a bit ironic that it was our tax dollars that rebuilt their railway system to a state of excellance far greater than our own and yet ours were allowed to just go to pot for lack of funds?

Faith, I thought that Amtrak would make it also as a passenger entity and am much disappointed that they are going downhill. The RR in Canada, VIA, seems to be doing well. Service is wonderful when you go across the country. The trains are not new and show wear. We had our own compartment with toilet and washbowl. And, we spent quite a lot of time in the observation car, playing games and reading. Very relaxing. When you read the Amtrak ads for passenger service, they sound quite nice,too. And, their travel magazine is well done. I have been looking into doing a trip here. You can see what all they offer on the internet site for Amtrak.

When you take a RR trip, short or long, what line are you taking? Is Amtrak our only passenger service? I rode the train out of Virginia City, a tourist train ride, but beautiful. I love that area of the country. My granddaughter is planning a move to Tahoe after graduation and I want to be able to tell her about the trains and their routes. She wants to be able to get to SF sometime while there. I assume that the train is still available.

The Donner Pass, in the Sierra, can get more than 200 inches of snow. In 1952, the City of San Francisco, the tracks having been cleared by a rotary plow, set out on the "same route surveyed by Theodore Judah some ninety years earlier."

There were no sheds and the blizzard conditions soon enveloped the train whose three Alco PA diesel electric engines could not free it.

A steam locomotive and rotary plow was dispatched from Norden but every attempt to free the train proved futile. Here is a very dramatic shot of the front of the stranded train The City of San Francisco snowbound

Winds were blowing in excess of 40 mph and snow continued to fall. A relief train came forward with an "army of men and shovels," but they were incapable of making significant progress despite their valiant efforts: it was just snowing too hard. Soon the train's steam generator, which provided heat to the passenger car, had to be shut down, and food supplies began to run low. As the snow continued to fall, it became impossible to reach the stranded train. A second rotary train had stalled. The engineer of a third rotary train had been killed in a derailment when his plow encountered a snow slide.

Brave men, in snowshoes killed overland from Cisco and Nyac to bring supplies to the crew and passengers.

Finally the storm ended, three days later, and the passengers were able to escape. A path was cleared along side the train and down to US Highway 40, which had been closed. The passengers were transported away but it would be three more days before they could free the train.

Since I had to cancel the Amtrak Starlight reservations that we had for going to Seattle a few years, I am glad to see that it is still available.

Ginny, should we be planning a train trip for B&L some year? What a hoot! We could all get on at our own stations(or closest one).

That snow chewer-upper was really ingenious, wasn't it?

A profile of the complicated life of Edward Sheriff Curtis who spent 30 years of his career attempting to record every Native American tribe in the West.

His goal was to reveal how they lived prior to their contact with the white man.

This special tells of the many struggles he went through to achieve his goals, which untimately cost him his financial security, family, and health.

Which tribe of Indians was considered the fiercest in the old west? Was it the Sioux? Or the Apache? Or neither one?

It's the perfect way to describe the experience offered by the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad!

Our restored early 20th century rolling stock steams through the mountains of Western Maryland on a stunning 32 mile round trip between Cumberland and Frostburg from May through December.

The trip covers a 1,300 foot change in elevation. You'll see tunnels and bridges and catch glimpses of scenery hidden for decades. More than three hundred years of American history are tied together by a ribbon of steel that thrills riders of all ages.

This web site is designed to invite you, your family and friends to come to Allegany County and discover a quality vacation, beginning with Mountain Thunder. Here are some web site highlights that may help you make your plans.

Ginny, I saw that picture of the tunnel somewhere else. Was it in the California Museum site?

I clicked on the Summit Tunnel up above in the header and then found this page that is very interesting. Summit Tunnel

The problem with these pics is no ID but somewhere in that folder there are some Appleton photos just like these but identified at the bottom in fine print. Here they are, at the bottom of this page: Tunnel Photos with Descriptions

There is an interesting article by a Robert Harris, titled, The Pacific Railroad-Unopened. Atlantic Monthly--1869

Ginny, that schedule seems fine to me. I am operating without the book but certainly have much to read in the clickables.

Ginny, that schedule seems fine to me. I am operating without the book but certainly have much to read in the clickables.

He took them to the end of the track and "took great pains on this trip to post them thoroughly about everything connected with the UP."

Durant at the end of the trip, was "bold enough to take the floor..." he attacked Dodge (p. 443) ...telling Grant that and the others that Dodge had selected extravagant routes, wasted precious time and money on useless surveys, ignored the sound judgment of Silas Seymour...had neglected his congressional duties, and more."

Grant turned to Dodge. "What will you do about it?" he asked.

"Just this," Dodge answered. "If Durant, or anybody connected with the UP, or anybody connected with the government, changes my lines, I'll quit the road."

Thanks, Ginny, for keeping me abreast of the book. Side by Side! This is a new part of history for me. I went looking for a listing of train wrecks and unexpectedly came across a listing of train expressions and their explanations. Here 'tis: Railroad Lingo

Isn't the word, "deadhead" still used to describe a non-paying passenger or employee who is riding free? Seems like that is what they call them on the airlines, the buses and the trains.

In June of 1961 we drove from NY to CA with 4 kids in a VW bus to visit family, stopping at points of interest along the way.

In Utah, we got into swim suits and entered the Great Salt Lake. In about two or three minutes our nine year old daughter yelled to her 10 year old sister; "hey Terry, does the water make your buhgina burn?" Nearby adults howled.

Yes, you can float, and at various times even while in a sitting posistion. At that time they had fresh water showers so one could wash off the caked salt. We still smile over it.

Born and raised in Vallejo, CA our family camped in South Lake Tahoe in the 30s. It took us 7 to 8 hrs for the trip; now an hr to 2 hrs. Recall one time watching an Indian family,a woman and 3 or 4 children, eat a meal while sitting on the ground and dipping into a basket for food with their hands. Now the thought of interfering like this embarrasses me.

Well there is hope that eventually we do learn.

That same trip from Sac to Truckee in 1927 over old hwy 40 a lot of it still gravel at the top of the summit, took my family about six h ours and lots of turning the car around and backing up to make the grade. Train trip from Sac to Reno was an overnighter even in the 40's, approx. 7 hours. as I remember.We thought nothing of it in the old days. That was just how long it took.

Thanks for the info on the Ohio Central Railroad. My husband and I will be looking into that ride from here to Massilon and maybe Detroit.

Ginny,

Did you post or put in the header the trains of Africa? Sounds intriguing!

Who of the posters, way back in the beginning of this discussion, mentioned having traveled on a train through Colorado or was it Nevada? Anyway, I would like to know where to look on the net for info on those kinds of trips. Anyone????

By the by, I found the Ohio Central Railroad's net site with a full schedule presented. See: Ohio Central RR

Steam locomotives still operate regular passenger and freight services in parts of Asia....then it goes on to talk about revivals of interest all over the world where enthusiasts have brought back the steam excursion.

In the late 1970's Zimbzbwe Railways refurbished a number of their British built Beyer-Garratt steam locomotives. This was due to the plentiful supply of Zimbabwe coal, and the desire to be independent of expensive imported oil used to fuel diesel locomotives. For this reason , Zimbabwe has attracted railroad enthusiasts from all over the world, to see and photograph some of the most powerful working steam locomotives in existence.

The building of new steam locomotives in China only ceased tat the end of the 1980's. Railroads form the backbone of public transportation in China, where steam locomotives are still used routinely. At the beginning of 1990 !! there were some 7,000 steam locomotives compared with 4,700 diesel and 1,200 electric.

Relatively few lines in India and Pakistan are run especially with tourists in mind. But the wide range of steam trains still operating there, such as this 70 year old British built tank locomotive, attract many enthusiasts from all over the world.

Ginny, we are posting on top of each other! LOL!

This locomotive was built in Britain in 1909 for use in Tasmania. It was the first of a new type of articulated (composed of segments) locomotive, designed for use on lines with sharp curves. Powerful locomotives of thie type were made up of two steam power units pivoted at either end of the main frame, which carries the boiler and cab.

Here's a site about Beyer-Garratt locomotives built for Tasmania. Beyer-Garrett

Here's a brief bit about the Australian connection:

Technology in Australia 1788-1988

The Garratt Locomotive

In a quest for more power - usually pulling power or tractive effort rather than horsepower - from a single locomotive over indifferent track, overseas railway engineers had by 1900 already developed a variety of articulated multi 'engine' locomotives drawing steam from one boiler. The British Fairlie, continental Meyer, and continental/U.S. Mallet were the most common. In 1907 Herbert Garratt, the N.S.W. Railways' Inspecting Engineer in London, proposed a new form of 3 piece articulated locomotive.

It had a central frame, a conventional boiler and a single cab slung between two end 'engine' units, each with one set of cylinders, wheels and motion; both engine units had water tanks and that adjoining the cab, a fuel bunker as well.

Garratt was an Australian and it would be nice to claim that he fully recognised the major breakthrough in steam locomotive technology that his arrangement permitted, but it seems that he did not. The big advantage of the Garratt is that it permits use of a boiler dimensioned up to the full cross section of the loading gauge, with a firebox and grate unconstrained by wheels. The engine units were fully able to exploit this boiler with the locomotive weight spread over a long, flexible, multi axle wheel base. This made possible a powerful, high tractive effort, good riding locomotive eminently suitable for Australia's light track and weak bridges, but these features were not exploited in Garratt's first engine. It was a very small narrow gauge engine on two 2 axle bogies, with its cylinders inboard and arrange for compound expansion according to the prevailing fashion of the time. It was built for the 600 mm gauge Dundas Tramway in N.E. Tasmania in 1909 and, after long service and several changes of hands, is preserved in the Railway Museum at York, England.[7]

The Garratt concept was taken up, developed and aggressively marketed not by Australia, but by Beyer Peacock, the famous British locomotive building firm. Early Australian applications were in Tasmania (including 8-cylinder double Atlantic (4-4-2+2-4-4) express engines) and in W.A. both on 1067 mm gauge and before the First World War, and later in Victoria, Queensland, S.A. and finally N.S.W. The concept was sold to railways on every continent except North America and reached its fullest potential in Africa with very powerful and fast (2500 kW at 130 km/h) double Pacifics (4-6-2+2-6-4) in Algeria, and double Northerns (4-8-4+4-8-4) in East Africa and N.S.W. for freight service.