The famous classic on evolution that revolutionized the course of science. Darwin's theory that species derive from other species by a gradual evolutionary process and that the average age level of each species is heightened by the "survival of the fittest" stirred popular debate of his time to a fever pitch. "Next to the Bible, no work has been quite as influential."--Ashley Montagu. SourceThe concentration in this discussion would be on the words of Darwin himself. We would want to know, not what folks are saying about evolution, but what he said himself. By the time we finished, we would understand his theory as he presented it. It would be done in a manner similar to the one we have been using in Durant's Story of Civilization -- in other words, we act as if we are sitting around together in someone's living room, have just read together a specific paragraph and then react in whatever way we wish. We would not be overly regimented.--Robby
Online text is available here:"On the Origin of Species."
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Robby
"Even slow-breeding man has doubled in twenty-five years, and at this rate, in less than a thousand years, there would literally not be standing-room for his progeny.
"Linnaeus has calculated that if an annual plant produced only two seeds- and there is no plant so unproductive as this- and their seedlings next year produced two, and so on, then in twenty years there should be a million plants.
"The elephant is reckoned the slowest breeder of all known animals, and I have taken some pains to estimate its probable minimum rate of natural increase. It will be safest to assume that it begins breeding when thirty years old, and goes on breeding till ninety years old, bringing forth six young in the interval, and surviving till one hundred years old.
"If this be so, after a period of from 740 to 750 years there would be nearly nineteen million elephants alive, descended from the first pair.
Robby
When I was a boy in the Twenties, there were about 2 billion people on earth. Now there are over 6 billion people.
Robby
I think we are beginning to understand what Darwin is pointing out -- whether it be human beings, elephants, plants, or insects.
Robby
What do you see, Kleo, as the mathematical differences between geometric and exponetial increase? I am a psychologist, not a statistician or mathematician, so someone more trained that I (perhaps yourself?) might help us to use Malthusian equations. It is my belief, however, (unless someone here corrects me) that the general thoughts as presented by Darwin is enough to give us the idea.
Links are wonderful, even if giving the wrong information. It stimulates our back and forth participation. We can always call attention to an error. We are all serious in wanting to know more about Darwin and his theory but we are a light discussion group here, not a university class.
I don't believe that Bubble was implying that war was the "only" check on population. She is aware that there are plagues, tsunamis, etc. etc. She is very active in Story of Civilization and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she wasn't thinking about what we have learned there when she made that comment.
The reminder to Subscribe didn't come from me but from PatWest who handles some of the technical aspects of Senior Net.
Robby
"But we have better evidence on this subject than mere theoretical calculations, namely, the numerous recorded cases of the astonishingly rapid increase of various animals in a state of nature, when circumstances have been favourable to them during two or three following seasons.
"Still more striking is the evidence from our domestic animals of many kinds which have run wild in several parts of the world. If the statements of the rate of increase of slow-breeding cattle and horses in South America, and latterly in Australia, had not been well authenticated, they would have been incredible.
"So it is with plants. Cases could be given of introduced plants which have become common throughout whole islands in a period of less than ten years. Several of the plants, such as the cardoon and a tall thistle, which are now the commonest over the whole plains of La Plata, clothing square leagues of surface almost to the exclusion of every other plant, have been introduced from Europe. There are plants which now range in India, as I hear from Dr. Falconer, from Cape Comorin to the Himalaya, which have been imported from America since its discovery.
"In such cases, and endless others could be given, no one supposes that the fertility of the animals or plants has been suddenly and temporarily increased in any sensible degree. The obvious explanation is that the conditions of life have been highly favourable -- that there has consequently been less destruction of the old and young -- and that nearly all the young have been enabled to breed.
"Their geometrical ratio of increase, the result of which never fails to be surprising, simply explains their extraordinarily rapid increase and wide diffusion in their new homes."
Darwin asks that we go past working on "theoretical calculations" and instead examine numerous cases of various animals and plants in a state of nature when circumstances were favorable to them. He cites domestic animals and plants which were transported from one continent to another and have run wild. He believes it ridiculous that their sudden increase was due to an increased fertility. Instead, he believes that their extraordinarily rapid increase (a geometical ratio) -- the diminished destruction of the old and young -- was due to highly favorable conditions of life. As I interpret it, a cooperative environment. In my mind at the moment are the rabbits that had been transported to Australia and apparently got out of hand.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Hence we may confidently assert, that all plants and animals are tending to increase at a geometrical ratio -- that all would rapidly stock every station in which they could anyhow exist -- and that this geometrical tendency to increase must be checked by destruction at some period of life.
"Our familiarity with the larger domestic animals tends, I think, to mislead us. We see no great destruction falling on them, but we do not keep in mind that thousands are annually slaughtered for food, and that in a state of nature an equal number would have somehow to be disposed of.
"The only difference between organisms which annually produce eggs or seeds by the thousand -- and those which produce extremely few -- is, that the slow-breeders would require a few more years to people -- under favourable conditions -- a whole district, let it be ever so large.
"The condor lays a couple of eggs and the ostrich a score, and yet in the same country the condor may be the more numerous of the two.
"The Fulmar petrel lays but one egg, yet it is believed to be the most numerous bird in the world.
"One fly deposits hundreds of eggs, and another, like the hippobosca, a single one. But this difference does not determine how many individuals of the two species can be supported in a district.
"A large number of eggs is of some importance to those species which depend on a fluctuating amount of food, for it allows them rapidly to increase in number. The real importance of a large number of eggs or seeds is to make up for much destruction at some period of life.
"This period in the great majority of cases is an early one. If an animal can in any way protect its own eggs or young, a small number may be produced, and yet the average stock be fully kept up. But if many eggs or young are destroyed, many must be produced, or the species will become extinct.
"It would suffice to keep up the full number of a tree, which lived on an average for a thousand years, if a single seed were produced once in a thousand years -- supposing that this seed were never destroyed -- and could be ensured to germinate in a fitting place.
"In all cases, the average number of any animal or plant depends only indirectly on the number of its eggs or seeds."
Darwin gives many examples to back up his theory that "if many young are destroyed, many must be produced, or the species will become extinct." I think here of the human species. Centuries ago families were larger to compensate for early deaths from various reasons. Nowadays in developed nations the percentage of deaths is smaller and families are now smaller. In some developing nations families are still large to compensate for disease and other causes of death. Darwin is helping us here to understand that wild animals and plants follow the same course.
Robby
"That each lives by a struggle at some period of its life. That heavy destruction inevitably falls either on the young or old, during each generation or at recurrent intervals.
"Lighten any cheek, mitigate the destruction ever so little, and the number of the species will almost instantaneously increase to any amount."
"EVERY single organic being" includes Homo Sapiens. As far as this "old" being is concerned, I concentrate on fruit and vegetables, walk almost daily, and get a decent night's sleep. I can't help the increase any more (I don't think I can!) but I can sure fight my destruction to the best of my ability.
Robby
"Look at the most vigorous species. By as much as it swarms in numbers, by so much will it tend to increase still further.
"We know not exactly what the checks are even in a single instance. Nor will this surprise any one who reflects how ignorant we are on this head -- even in regard to mankind -- although so incomparably better known than any other animal.
"This subject of the checks to increase has been ably treated by several authors, and I hope in a future work to discuss it at considerable length, more especially in regard to the feral animals of South America.
"Here I will make only a few remarks, just to recall to the reader's mind some of the chief points.
"Eggs or very young animals seem generally to suffer most. But this is not invariably the case.
"With plants there is a vast destruction of seeds, but, from some observations which I have made, it appears that the seedlings suffer most from germinating in ground already thickly stocked with other plants.
"Seedlings, also, are destroyed in vast numbers by various enemies. For instance, on a piece of ground three feet long and two wide, dug and cleared, and where there could be no choking from other plants, I marked all the seedlings of our native weeds as they came up, and out of 357 no less than 295 were destroyed, chiefly by slugs and insects.
"If turf which has long been mown -- and the case would be the same with turf closely browsed by quadrupeds -- be let to grow, the more vigorous plants gradually kill the less vigorous, though fully grown plants.
"Thus out of twenty species growing on a little plot of mown turf (three feet by four) nine species perished, from the other species being allowed to grow up freely."
Careful, children. They're out to kill you!
Robby
"Very frequently it is not the obtaining food, but the serving as prey to other animals, which determines the average numbers of a species. Thus, there seems to be little doubt that the stock of partridges, grouse, and hares on any large estate depends chiefly on the destruction of vermin.
"If not one head of game were shot during the next twenty years in England, and, at the same time, if no vermin were destroyed, there would, in all probability, be less game than at present, although hundreds of thousands of game animals are now annually shot.
"On the other hand, in some cases, as with the elephant, none are destroyed by beasts of prey. Even the tiger in India most rarely dares to attack a young elephant protected by its dam."
Your comments, please?
Robby
Robby
Robby
"I estimated (chiefly from the greatly reduced numbers of nests in the spring) that the winter of 1854-5 destroyed four-fifths of the birds in my own grounds. This is a tremendous destruction, when we remember that ten per cent is an extraordinarily severe mortality from epidemics with man.
"The action of climate seems at first sight to be quite independent of the struggle for existence.
"But in so far as climate chiefly acts in reducing food, it brings on the most severe struggle between the individuals, whether of the same or of distinct species, which subsist on the same kind of food. Even when climate, for instance, extreme cold, acts directly, it will be the least vigorous individuals, or those which have got least food through the advancing winter, which will suffer most.
"When we travel from south to north, or from a damp region to a dry, we invariably see some species gradually getting rarer and rarer, and finally disappearing. The change of climate being conspicuous, we are tempted to attribute the whole effect to its direct action.
"This is a false view. We forget that each species, even where it most abounds, is constantly suffering enormous destruction at some period of its life, from enemies or from competitors for the same place and food.
"If these enemies or competitors be in the least degree favoured by any slight change of climate, they will increase in numbers. As each area is already fully stocked with inhabitants, the other species must decrease.
"When we travel southward and see a species decreasing in numbers, we may feel sure that the cause lies quite as much in other species being favoured, as in this one being hurt. So it is when we travel northward, but in a somewhat lesser degree. The number of species of all kinds, and therefore of competitors, decreases northwards. Hence in going northwards, or in ascending a mountain, we far oftener meet with stunted forms, due to the directly injurious action of climate, than we do in proceeding southwards or in descending a mountain.
"When we reach the arctic regions, or snowcapped summits, or absolute deserts, the struggle for life is almost exclusively with the elements.
"That climate acts in main part indirectly by favouring other species, we clearly see in the prodigious number of plants which in our gardens can perfectly well endure our climate, but which never become naturalised, for they cannot compete with our native plants nor resist destruction by our native animals."
Darwin is beginning to speak in a manner I can understand. How about you folks?
Robby
Robby
Robby
Robby
Robby
"But even some of these so-called epidemics appear to be due to parasitic worms, which have from some cause, possibly in part through facility of diffusion amongst the crowded animals, been disproportionally favoured. Here comes in a sort of struggle between the parasite and its prey.
"On the other hand, in many cases, a large stock of individuals of the same species, relatively to the numbers of its enemies, is absolutely necessary for its preservation.
"Thus we can easily raise plenty of corn and rape-seed, &c., in our fields, because the seeds are in great excess compared with the number of birds which feed on them. Nor can the birds, though having a super-abundance of food at this one season, increase in number proportionally to the supply of seed, as their numbers are checked during the winter. Any one who has tried, knows how troublesome it is to get seed from a few wheat or other such plants in a garden. I have in this case lost every single seed.
"This view of the necessity of a large stock of the same species for its preservation, explains, I believe, some singular facts in nature, such as that of very rare plants being sometimes extremely abundant, in the few spots where they do exist -- and that of some social plants being social, that is abounding in individuals, even on the extreme verge of their range.
"In such cases, we may believe, that a plant could exist only where the conditions of its life were so favourable that many could exist together, and thus save the species from utter destruction.
"I should add that the good effects of intercrossing, and the ill effects of close interbreeding, no doubt come into play in many of these cases; but I will not here enlarge on this subject."
Any comments about this paragraph?
Robby
Current events, yes -- but refraining from naming political figures or parties and refraining from putting a religious slant on what we are reading.
We also want to refrain from knowledge that Darwin didn't have at the time. For example:-I have often seen articles about DNA or genes in the news and they related to evolution but I did not post them because Darwin never heard of DNA.
Robby
INTERESTING talk today. You know, when this discussion first started I got mad at KLEO for jumping on ROBBY, it seemed to me, and tallking about the edition of this book we should read. That was a non-issue, I thought, and I wanted to get on with it.
Of course, it was not a non-issue. Darwin couldn't make up his mind, and he had reason for that.
But I'm jumping ahead of myself . It didn't take long for me to realize that KLEO was sounding just as my former husband had. He took his Ph.D. in Inorganic Chemistry at Brown and did work in Cryogenic Physics at Duke University,and more at Harvard. To this day does scientific work in his mid-70's.
He had a different way of thinking from mine. Trouble was, he was convinced that it was superior. "Marilyn," he used to say, "you're too personal and emotional. You put yourself and all you know in everything." During the many years we were married I realized that the "all you know" was what hindered me. If I were to understand the hard things, and the things my artistically, musically, creative-in-those-areas self had to put what I didn't know into the way I thought and everything else.
I had trouble with Solid Geometry in high school, and a tutor was hired to keep me on the High Honor Roll. There was a scholarship to an expensive college pending, and I had to "make the grade."
Algebra had been easy for me; it was like a language. In contrast geometry seemed dull. Trig was okay, but Solid Geometry? Forget it.
Somehow this old lady tutor made a door open in my mind. She made me "see" things differently and made me think differently. This has happened a few times in my life, but the old arty me always barges in and closes that fine door, or obscures the view.
I see here in this discussion a chance to open it a little again, so decided mostly to listen and learn. From KLEO, who with her knowledge and experience is nudging my memory about an open door again, and from all of you whose comments make me think.
Yes, I think I must be altered to understand what little I can of Darwin. I had to alter my thinking when we began the Story of Civilization discussion. These discussions are going on at an extremely painful time of my life when "to be or not to be" has been in the forefront of my mind. Don't kid yourself about "will to live".
It's been a time of changes and of a major physical move for me. There's a lot going on in this what's-the-number? chapter of my life. Maybe a few of the doors of my mind that I've allowed slowly to shut, will open again and when the time comes for me to play that last cadenza, or put that final fleck of paint on a painting that, like all of my others, will never be finished in my mind, I will have begun to see a bit of light.
I've told my family there are lot of books I have to write, a lot of things I have to finish and learn. In a way, this is how a scientist thinks. Any kind of help from any quarter in this last lap or two will be accepted and appreciated.
Mal
I don't consider anyone here an expert regardless of the amount of grad training and regardless of the letters after the name. And that includes myself.
We are a group of interested friends sitting around in our living room, each with our own expertise, and with that expertise we can use logic regardless of our scientific background.
I dislike intensely the word "expert" or its implication.
Let us refrain from mentioning each other's names except in complimentary form.
Robby
Robby
Pax vobiscum! Peace be with you ... with all of us, actually.
"I will give only a single instance, which, though a simple one, interested me.
"In Staffordshire, on the estate of a relation, where I had ample means of investigation, there was a large and extremely barren heath, which had never been touched by the hand of man. Several hundred acres of exactly the same nature had been enclosed twenty-five years previously and planted with Scotch fir.
"The change in the native vegetation of the planted part of the heath was most remarkable, more than is generally seen in passing from one quite different soil to another. Not only the proportional numbers of the heath-plants were wholly changed, but twelve species of plants (not counting grasses and carices) flourished in the plantations, which could not be found on the heath.
"The effect on the insects must have been still greater, for six insectivorous birds were very common in the plantations, which were not to be seen on the heath. The heath was frequented by two or three distinct insectivorous birds.
"Here we see how potent has been the effect of the introduction of a single tree, nothing whatever else having been done, with the exception of the land having been enclosed, so that cattle could not enter.
"But how important an element enclosure is, I plainly saw near Farnham, in Surrey. Here there are extensive heaths, with a few clumps of old Scotch firs on the distant hilltops. Within the last ten years large spaces have been enclosed, and self-sown firs are now springing up in multitudes, so close together that all cannot live.
"When I ascertained that these young trees had not been sown or planted, I was so much surprised at their numbers that I went to several points of view, whence I could examine hundreds of acres of the unenclosed heath. Literally I could not see a single Scotch fir, except the old planted clumps.
"But on looking closely between the stems of the heath, I found a multitude of seedlings and little trees which had been perpetually browsed down by the cattle. In one square yard, at a point some hundred yards distant from one of the old clumps, I counted thirty-two little trees. One of them, with twenty-six rings of growth, had, during many years, tried to raise its head above the stems of the heath, and had failed.
"No wonder that, as soon as the land was enclosed, it became thickly clothed with vigorously growing young firs.
"Yet the heath was so extremely barren and so extensive that no one would ever have imagined that cattle would have so closely and effectually searched it for food."
Your comments, please?
Robby
"Perhaps Paraguay offers the most curious instance of this. Here neither cattle nor horses nor dogs have ever run wild, though they swarm southward and northward in a feral state.
"Azara and Rengger have shown that this is caused by the greater number in Paraguay of a certain fly, which lays its eggs in the navels of these animals when first born. The increase of these flies, numerous as they are, must be habitually checked by some means, probably by other parasitic insects.
"Hence, if certain insectivorous birds were to decrease in Paraguay, the parasitic insects would probably increase. This would lessen the number of the navel-frequenting flies- then cattle and horses would become feral, and this would certainly greatly alter -- as indeed I have observed in parts of South America -- the vegetation. This again would largely affect the insects -- and this, as we have just seen in Staffordshire, the insectivorous birds -- and so onwards in ever-increasing circles of complexity.
"Not that under nature the relations will ever be as simple as this. Battle within battle must be continually recurring with varying success. Yet in the long run the forces are so nicely balanced, that the face of nature remains for long periods of time uniform, though assuredly the merest trifle would give the victory to one organic being over another.
"Nevertheless, so profound is our ignorance, and so high our presumption, that we marvel when we hear of the extinction of an organic being. As we do not see the cause, we invoke cataclysms to desolate the world, or invent laws on the duration of the forms of life!"
An interesting relationship in Paraguay. 1 - No cattle and horses run feral. 1 - If insect-eating birds were to decrease Altering the vegetation -- would affect the insects -- which would then affect the insect-eating birds -- etc. etc. in a constant circle. Darwin calls it a "battle within a battle" generally nicely balanced but a slight change could affect the whole situation wherein one organism would win out over the other.
2 - Due to a fly which lays its eggs in the navels of these animals.
3 - Other parasitic insects check these flies.
2 - Parasitic insects would increase
3 - Navel-frequenting flies would lessen
4 - Cattle and horses would become feral and
5 - This would alter the vegetation.
Robby
Robby
"I shall hereafter have occasion to show that the exotic Lobelia fulgens is never visited in my garden by insects -- and consequently, from its peculiar structure, never sets a seed.
"Nearly all our orchidaceous plants absolutely require the visits of insects to remove their pollen-masses and thus to fertilise them. I find from experiments that bumble-bees are almost indispensable to the fertilisation of the heartsease (Viola tricolor), for other bees do not visit this flower.
"I have also found that the visits of bees are necessary for the fertilisation of some kinds of clover. For instance, 90 heads of Dutch clover (Trifolium repens) yielded 2,290 seeds, but 20 other heads protected from bees produced not one. Again, 100 heads of red clover (T. pratense) produced 2,700 seeds, but the same number of protected heads produced not a single seed. Bumble-bees alone visit red clover, as other bees cannot reach the nectar.
"It has been suggested that moths may fertilise the clovers. I doubt whether they could do so in the case of the red clover, from their weight not being sufficient to depress the wing petals.
"Hence we may infer as highly probable that, if the whole genus of bumble-bees became extinct or very rare in England, the heartsease and red clover would become very rare, or wholly disappear.
"The number of bumble-bees in any district depends in a great measure upon the number of field-mice, which destroy their combs and nests. Col. Newman, who has long attended to the habits of bumble-bees, believes that "more than two-thirds of them are thus destroyed all over England."
"The number of mice is largely dependent, as every one knows, on the number of cats. Col. Newman says, "Near villages and small towns I have found the nests of bumble-bees more numerous than elsewhere, which I attribute to the number of cats that destroy the mice." Hence it is quite credible that the presence of a feline animal in large numbers in a district might determine, through the intervention first of mice and then of bees, the frequency of certain flowers in that district!"
Throughout this paragraph the term "humble-bees" was used and I changed it with the belief that the typist had made a typo. Maybe I was wrong and that, indeed in England a couple of centuries ago they referred to them as humble-bees. Any comments about this paragraph?
Robby
Yes, Robbie ~
Humble bees are bumble bees.
Some old British novels also mentioned them, it's not a typo!
Aside from that, any reaction to Darwin's remarks?
Robby
Robby
Robby
Robby
"But all will concur in determining the average number or even the existence of the species.
"In some cases it can be shown that widely-different checks act on the same species in different districts. When we look at the plants and bushes clothing an entangled bank, we are tempted to attribute their proportional numbers and kinds to what we call chance.
"But how false a view is this! Every one has heard that when an American forest is cut down a very different vegetation springs up. But it has been observed that ancient Indian ruins in the southern United States, which must formerly have been cleared of trees, now display the same beautiful diversity and proportion of kinds as in the surrounding virgin forest.
"What a struggle must have gone on during long centuries between the several kinds of trees each annually scattering its seeds by the thousand -- what war between insect and insect- between insects, snails, and other animals with birds and beasts of prey -- all striving to increase, all feeding on each other, or on the trees, their seeds and seedlings, or on the other plants which first clothed the ground and thus checked the growth of the trees!
"Throw up a handful of feathers, and all fall to the ground according to definite laws. But how simple is the problem where each shall fall compared to that of the action and reaction of the innumerable plants and animals which have determined -- in the course of centuries -- the proportional numbers and kinds of trees now growing on the old Indian ruins!"
Once again - let me see if I have this. Darwin says that every single species has something or other which checks it (holds it back or destroys it). This might happen at different ages of the organism. Or it might happen during certain seasons. And when something happens to a particular species, we might, Darwin says, attribute this to chance. But he is very firm in saying that this is not so. He sees any destruction of a species as having been the result of a struggle -- a struggle (at least in the case of certain trees) that probably lasted for centuries. The trees on one hand scattering around thousands of seeds. The insects feeding on the trees and they, in turn, being eaten by other insects, animals, and birds. Darwin's conclusion is that the current kinds and numbers of trees and other organisms is determined by "the action and reaction of the innumerable plants and animals." Speak up, folks. What are your thoughts on this matter?
Robby
"This is likewise sometimes the case with those which may be strictly said to struggle with each other for existence, as in the case of locusts and grass-feeding quadrupeds.
"But the struggle will almost invariably be most severe between the individuals of the same species, for they frequent the same districts, require the same food, and are exposed to the same dangers.
"In the case of varieties of the same species, the struggle will generally be almost equally severe, and we sometimes see the contest soon decided. For instance, if several varieties of wheat be sown together -- and the mixed seed be resown -- some of the varieties which best suit the soil or climate, or are naturally the most fertile, will beat the others and so yield more seed -- and will consequently in a few years supplant the other varieties.
"To keep up a mixed stock of even such extremely close varieties as the variously-coloured sweet peas, they must be each year harvested separately -- and the seed then mixed in due proportion -- otherwise the weaker kinds will steadily decrease in number and disappear.
"So again with the varieties of sheep. It has been asserted that certain mountain-varieties will starve out other mountain-varieties, so that they cannot be kept together.
"The same result has followed from keeping together different varieties of the medicinal leech.
"It may even be doubted whether the varieties of any of our domestic plants or animals have so exactly the same strength, habits, and constitution -- that the original proportions of a mixed stock (crossing being prevented) could be kept up for half-a-dozen generations -- if they were allowed to struggle together, in the same manner as beings in a state of nature, and if the seed or young were not annually preserved in due proportion."
"The struggle will almost invariably be most severe between the individuals of the same species. They frequent the same districts, require the same food, and are exposed to the same dangers." If I can extrapolate a bit, I wonder if this is why we get along better with dogs and horses than we sometimes do with ourselves. "I want what you've got. You have what belongs to me."
Robby
It should be more and more fun as we move along.
Robby
"We see this in the recent extension over parts of the United States of one species of swallow having caused the decrease of another species.
"The recent increase of the missel-thrush in parts of Scotland has caused the decrease of the song-thrush.
"How frequently we hear of one species of rat taking the place of another species under the most different climates!
"In Russia the small Asiatic cockroach has everywhere driven before it its great congener.
"In Australia the imported hive-bee is rapidly exterminating the small, stingless native bee.
"One species of charlock has been known to supplant another species -- and so in other cases.
"We can dimly see why the competition should be most severe between allied forms, which fill nearly the same place in the economy of nature; but probably in no one case could we precisely say why one species has been victorious over another in the great battle of life."
I find it difficult not to think of homo sapiens as Darwin speaks of the "great battle of life" between members of the same species. "The struggle is severe." But we are a "thinking" species and the cockroach is not. I need to be careful in drawing analogies.
Robby
Robby
Robby ~
Please let's stay away from Homo sapiens, here. Yes, you are indeed very careful in drawing analogies, and your summaries are very helpful.
The sentence from Darwin can be read as the foundation of the discipline called Ecology, having
the same word root as Economics.
Suppose there are only a fixed about of resources for similar species to share, or to use up. When resources (food or nesting space, for example) are in short supply, either due to geography (an island, for example) or due to climate change, only the most "fit" species will triumph. Nature red in tooth and claw...
Here's a link to Ecology:
Ecology
"This is obvious in the structure of the teeth and talons of the tiger -- and in that of the legs and claws of the parasite which clings to the hair on the tiger's body.
"But in the beautifully plumed seed of the dandelion, and in the flattened and fringed legs of the water-beetle, the relation seems at first confined to the elements of air and water.
"Yet the advantage of plumed seeds no doubt stands in the closest relation to the land being already thickly clothed with other plants -- so that the seeds may be widely distributed and fall on unoccupied ground.
"In the water-beetle, the structure of its legs, so well adapted for diving, allows it to compete with other aquatic insects -- to hunt for its own prey -- and to escape serving as prey to other animals."
Interesting. "The structure of every organic being is related to that of all the other organic beings with which it comes into competition." Hm-m-m. I need to think about that a bit.
Robby
"But from the strong growth of young plants produced from such seeds -- as peas and beans, when sown in the midst of long grass -- it may be suspected that the chief use of the nutriment in the seed is to favour the growth of the seedlings, whilst struggling with other plants growing vigorously all around.
"Look at a plant in the midst of its range. Why does it not double or quadruple its numbers?
"We know that it can perfectly well withstand a little more heat or cold, dampness or dryness. Elsewhere it ranges into slightly hotter or colder, damper or drier districts.
"In this case we can clearly see that if we wish in imagination to give the plant the power of increasing in number, we should have to give it some advantage over its competitors, or over the animals which prey on it.
"On the confines of its geographical range, a change of constitution with respect to climate would clearly be an advantage to our plant. But we have reason to believe that only a few plants or animals range so far, that they are destroyed exclusively by the rigour of the climate.
"Not until we reach the extreme confines of life, in the Arctic regions or on the borders of an utter desert, will competition cease. The land may be extremely cold or dry, yet there will be competition between some few species, or between the individuals of the same species, for the warmest or dampest spots."
OK. I get that. The nutrient within the seed helps the seedling which is trying to "beat out" the other plants near it. It needs strength, not only to grow, but to "fight" its competitors. Elementary?
Robby
Robby
"If its average numbers are to increase in its new home, we should have to modify it in a different way to what we should have had to do in its native country. We should have to give it some advantage over a different set of competitors or enemies.
"It is good thus to try in imagination to give to any one species an advantage over another. Probably in no single instance should we know what to do.
"This ought to convince us of our ignorance on the mutual relations of all organic beings -- a conviction as necessary as it is difficult to acquire.
"All that we can do, is to keep steadily in mind that each organic being is striving to increase in a geometrical ratio. Each at some period of its life, during some season of the year, during each generation or at intervals, has to struggle for life and to suffer great destruction.
"When we reflect on this struggle, we may console ourselves with the full belief, that the war of nature is not incessant -- that no fear is felt -- that death is generally prompt -- and that the vigorous, the healthy, and the happy survive and multiply."
These are the final paragraphs of Chapter Three. Before going on to Chapter Four I would appreciate some comments about this chapter which, you may recall, is entitled "Struggle for Existence."
Robby
It depends upon the definition of the word "strive." Isn't the blade of grass that pushes up through the concrete sidewalk "striving" even though there may be no conscious awareness that it is doing so? It is fighting against all obstacles.
Robby
"Can the principle of selection, which we have seen is so potent in the hands of man, apply under nature? I think we shall see that it can act most efficiently.
"Let the endless number of slight variations and individual differences occurring in our domestic productions -- and, in a lesser degree, in those under nature -- be borne in mind -- as well as the strength of the hereditary tendency.
"Under domestication, it may be truly said that the whole organisation becomes in some degree plastic.
"But the variability, which we almost universally meet with in our domestic productions, is not directly produced, as Hooker and Asa Gray have well remarked, by man. He can neither originate varieties, nor prevent their occurrence. He can preserve and accumulate such as do occur.
"Unintentionally he exposes organic beings to new and changing conditions of life, and variability ensues. But similar changes of conditions might and do occur under nature.
"Let it also be borne in mind how infinitely complex and close-fitting are the mutual relations of all organic beings to each other and to their physical conditions of life -- and consequently what infinitely varied diversities of structure might be of use to each being under changing conditions of life.
"Can it, then, be thought improbable -- seeing that variations useful to man have undoubtedly occurred -- that other variations useful in some way to each being in the great and complex battle of life, should occur in the course of many successive generations?
"If such do occur, can we doubt (remembering that many more individuals are born than can possibly survive) that individuals having any advantage, however slight, over others, would have the best chance of surviving and of procreating their kind?
"On the other hand, we may feel sure that any variation in the least degree injurious would be rigidly destroyed.
"This preservation of favourable individual differences and variations, and the destruction of those which are injurious, I have called Natural Selection, or the Survival of the Fittest.
"Variations neither useful nor injurious would not be affected by natural selection, and would be left either a fluctuating element -- as perhaps we see in certain polymorphic species -- or would ultimately become fixed, owing to the nature of the organism and the nature of the conditions."
Now we come to the term known and repeated often by the general populace without their knowing what it truly means -- Survival of the Fittest. Let me see if I understand what Darwin is saying. We must first remember, he says, what we have learned about the "struggle for existence." Having done that, he says, let us keep in mind what we learned in earlier chapters about Man being able to select particular traits in plants and animals. In these selections by Man there are endless number of variations and individual differences. This also happens, he says, under Nature. He calls the whole organization "plastic." I'm not quite sure what he means by that. What ever power Man may have, he emphasizes, Man can not originate varieties or prevent their occurrence. He can only take what Nature gives him and preserve and accummulate these. Without realizing what he is doing, he can expose these organisms to new environments and then variability occurs. Nature also does this, Darwin says. He speaks of the relationships between all organic beings, calling these relationships "infinitely complex and close fitting." He speaks of the changing environments and their effect on the organisms. Darwin then theorizes -- if Man can produce organisms which it deems "useful," can not Nature also do the same thing over a long number of generations? Because (he spoke of this earlier and quoted Malthus) more individuals are born than can survive, then those individuals with any sort of advantage, no matter how slight, have the best chance of surviving and procreating. Those without such advantages would die. He calls this procedure "Natural Selection" or "Survival of the Fittest." How do you folks understand what Darwin is telling us here?
Robby
Robby
"No one objects to agriculturists speaking of the potent effects of man's selection. In this case the individual differences given by nature, which man for some object selects, must of necessity first occur.
"Others have objected that the term selection implies conscious choice in the animals which become modified. It has even been urged that, as plants have no volition, natural selection is not applicable to them!
"In the literal sense of the word, no doubt, natural selection is a false term. But who ever objected to chemists speaking of the elective affinities of the various elements? Yet an acid cannot strictly be said to elect the base with which it in preference combines.
"It has been said that I speak of natural selection as an active power or Deity. But who objects to an author speaking of the attraction of gravity as ruling the movements of the planets?
"Every one knows what is meant and is implied by such metaphorical expressions -- and they are almost necessary for brevity.
"So again it is difficult to avoid personifying the word Nature. I mean by Nature, only the aggregate action and product of many natural laws -- and by laws the sequence of events as ascertained by us.
"With a little familiarity such superficial objections will be forgotten."
Darwin asks us here not to be too literal. He says we know exactly what he is talking about. He is speaking metaphorically. He knows that plants don't consciously "select." He knows there is no such person as Nature. So perhaps in the sense that Darwin speaks, blades of grass do "strive" to push up through the cement.
Robby
Robby
"The proportional numbers of its inhabitants will almost immediately undergo a change, and some species will probably become extinct.
"We may conclude, from what we have seen of the intimate and complex manner in which the inhabitants of each country are bound together, that any change in the numerical proportions of the inhabitants, independently of the change of climate itself, would seriously affect the others.
"If the country were open on its borders, new forms would certainly immigrate, and this would likewise seriously disturb the relations of some of the former inhabitants.
"Let it be remembered how powerful the influence of a single introduced tree or mammal has been shown to be.
"In the case of an island, or of a country partly surrounded by barriers, into which new and better adapted forms could not freely enter, we should then have places in the economy of nature which would assuredly be better filled up, if some of the original inhabitants were in some manner modified.
"Had the area been open to immigration, these same places would have been seized on by intruders. In such cases, slight modifications -- which in any way favoured the individuals of any species, by better adapting them to their altered conditions -- would tend to be preserved. Natural selection would have free scope for the work of improvement."
Darwin here is trying to explain to us how "natural selection" works. He gives as an example a country in which the climate becomes hotter or colder. This, he says, would affect the plants. Those plants which could adapt (Plant A)would then have a proportional higher population than those (Plant which had trouble adapting. Some species would die. Because, he says, there would now be many more "A" plants than "B" plants, this would affect the relationship between "A" and "B". Because there are now many less "B" plants, the seeds from alien plants (Plant C) might enter the nation and find it easier to propagate. The presence of plant C - the newcomer - would now affect the A-B relationship. Darwin asks us to remember from previous chapters how strong is the influence of one single plant or animal entering the area. If, however, there is some sort of barrier wherein an alien plant or animal cannot enter, then because the climate had caused the decrease of Plant B, native plants would have filled the gap. What are your thoughts, folks? Am I going in the right direction? As I write this, I am thinking of the National Forests in the West where wolves and bisons are being brought back or being affected in one way or another by Man. I don't know what I hit to make that face come up. I never did that before.
Robby
Robby
"In the foregoing cases the conditions have changed, and this would manifestly be favourable to natural selection, by affording a better chance of the occurrence of profitable variations.
"Unless such occur, natural selection can do nothing. Under the term of "variations," it must never be forgotten that mere individual differences are included.
"As man can produce a great result with his domestic animals and plants by adding up in any given direction individual differences, so could natural selection, but far more easily from having incomparably longer time for action.
"Nor do I believe that any great physical change, as of climate, or any unusual degree of isolation to check immigration, is necessary in order that new and unoccupied places should be left, for natural selection to fill up by improving some of the varying inhabitants. As all the inhabitants of each country are struggling together with nicely balanced forces, extremely slight modifications in the structure or habits of one species would often give it an advantage over others.
"Still further modifications of the same kind would often still further increase the advantage, as long as the species continued under the same conditions of life and profited by similar means of subsistence and defence.
"No country can be named in which all the native inhabitants are now so perfectly adapted to each other and to the physical conditions under which they live, that none of them could be still better adapted or improved. In all countries, the natives have been so far conquered by naturalised productions, that they have allowed some foreigners to take firm possession of the land. And as foreigners have thus in every country beaten some of the natives, we may safely conclude that the natives might have been modified with advantage, so as to have better resisted the intruders."
Keep in mind, folks, that I am not an expert on this subject. I am only passing along to you what I am understanding Darwin to be saying. I could be wrong. Throw your thoughts in here. A Discussion Leader can only facilitate if there is a group to "lead." To begin with, Darwin reminds us that in Chapter One he told us that if the environment (climate for example, or the presence of sea lions) changes, then there is increased vaiability in the native species. The changes might be beneficial or harmful. In Scrawler's case, the change was harmful to the salmon in terms of their numbers. Darwin makes a comparison. He says that Man can make changes in his livestock or plants in the direction in which he wants them to go. Natural Selection can do the same but it takes a much longer time (centuries? eons?) for this to happen. He doesn't believe that any great physical change (climate for example) is necessary for Nature to "improve" the wild animals or plants. He reminds us that all the inhabitants are constantly "struggling" for life with each other. Any change to the nicely balance force could give an advantage or disadvantage to any of the species or individual variations. Darwin can not think of a single country where any animal or plant could not be improved. He says that in all countries the local plants (he calls them natives) have allowed strange plants (he calls them foreigners) to take possession of the land. And because these foreigners have "beaten" some of the natives, the natives might have been changed to the point where they were able to resist the foreigners. I think of that advertisement decades ago about the "hunk" who takes the girl away from the "90 pound weakling." The presence of this hunk causes the weakling to follow the advice of Charles Atlas, he builds up his muscles, and gets the girl back. Tell me, people, do I have this correct? And "hellos" by lurkers are always welcome.
Robby
Over 20 people in Senior Net indicated they wanted to hold a discussion like ours because they wanted to go to the source -- that is, learn what Darwin had actually said, not what some people said that others had said that their friends had said that the media said. The approach taken by the media and by many people across the nation is more titillating, more emotional, and more fun to discuss than Darwin's logical approach.
But here we are. I, for one, want to be able to say a month or so from now that I know what Darwin was really saying -- what he meant by natural selection and survival of the fittest. Right now we are discussing plants and animals but all of us know in the back of our minds that when he uses the term "organisms," that humans are organisms -- that his principles may apply to us.
I realize that we may have lost some of the 20+ people originally interested but I don't know how many.
I want to also thank those of you here for refraining from making remarks that have a religious slant. This has helped us to look at the topic with unbiased eyes.
Be assured that I will continue as long as a significant number of you want me to.
Robby
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Man can act only on external and visible characters: Nature, if I may be allowed to personify the natural preservation or survival of the fittest, cares nothing for appearances, except in so far as they are useful to any being.
"She can act on every internal organ, on every shade of constitutional difference, on the whole machinery of life.
"Man selects only for his own good -- nature only for that of the being which she tends. Every selected character is fully exercised by her, as is implied by the fact of their selection.
"Man keeps the natives of many climates in the same country.
"He seldom exercises each selected character in some peculiar and fitting manner. He feeds a long and a short beaked pigeon on the same food. He does not exercise a long-backed or long-legged quadruped in any peculiar manner. He exposes sheep with long and short wool to the same climate.
"He does not allow the most vigorous males to struggle for the females.
"He does not rigidly destroy all inferior animals, but protects during each varying season -- as far as lies in his power -- all his productions.
"He often begins his selection by some half-monstrous form -- or at least by some modification prominent enough to catch the eye or to be plainly useful to him.
"Under nature, the slightest differences of structure or constitution may well turn the nicely balanced scale in the struggle for life, and so be preserved.
"How fleeting are the wishes and efforts of man! how short his time! and consequently how poor will be his results, compared with those accumulated by Nature during whole geological periods!
"Can we wonder, then, that Nature's productions should be far "truer" in character than man's productions -- that they should be infinitely better adapted to the most complex conditions of life -- and should plainly bear the stamp of far higher workmanship?"
Come on, folks. Help me out here. This is what I understand Darwin is saying. Man is methodical in breeding his animals and plants in working toward what he wants. However, he is making these changes not realizing that he is gradually changing future generations. Darwin calls that "unconscious selection." Darwin personifies Nature and says that "she" does the same thing except that Man works only on what he sees, i.e. the external appearances of the organisms. Nature only cares for what is useful to that particular being, external appearances being unimportant. "She" acts on every single aspect of the organism, seen or unseen. Man changes the organisms he is breeding for HIS benefit. Nature changes the organisms for THEIR own benefit. Man tends to keep the animals or plants he is breeding in the same area. Therefore the climate remains primarily the same and he feeds them with the same food. He does not allow the male and female animals to follow their usual wild tendencies. He protects what he has bred, not allowing them to die as they might in the wild. Man does this within his lifetime or in a period of years or generations. Nature is not rushing but has thousands, if not millions, of years to cause "her" changes. Because Nature takes a much longer period of time to make these changes, the changes are of a better quality. Nature has time to perfect what is best for the organism. Your thoughts, please?
Robby
"We see nothing of these slow changes in progress, until the hand of time has marked the lapse of ages, and then so imperfect is our view into long-past geological ages, that we see only that the forms of life are now different from what they formerly were.
"In order that any great amount of modification should be effected in a species, a variety when once formed must again -- perhaps after a long interval of time -- vary or present individual differences of the same favourable nature as before.
"These must be again preserved, and so onwards step by step. Seeing that individual differences of the same kind perpetually recur, this can hardly be considered as an unwarrantable assumption.
"But whether it is true, we can judge only by seeing how far the hypothesis accords with and explains the general phenomena of nature.
"On the other hand, the ordinary belief that the amount of possible variation is a strictly limited quantity is likewise a simple assumption."
Let us keep in mind that Darwin admits he is speaking metaphorically. He tells us of Nature's "hand." He says that Nature is on the job every day, every hour, every minute -- examining every single organsim in detail of whatever type throughout the entire world -- rejecting those that are not useful to the organism itself, and strengthening those that are beneficial Because Nature lives longer than we do and makes these changes over eons of time, we in the small length of our lives do not notice these changes. We perhaps notice some big changes but not the very small changes between them. If I understand correctly what Darwin then says, he tells us that when a favorable change occurs in an organism, that favorable change must re-occur again and again so as to be a new "permanent" part of the organism.
Robby
That is a profound question. We berate ourselves for using our "intelligence" to change the world for our benefit. But if wolves do what is best for wolves, lions do what is best for lions, wasps do what is best for wasps,and oak trees do what is best for oak trees, then aren't we doing what Nature has decreed we should do?
Perhaps there is no such thing as good or bad -- that Nature has no moral code.
Robby
"When we see leaf-eating insects green -- and bark-feeders mottled-grey -- the alpine ptarmigan white in winter -- the red grouse the colour of heather -- we must believe that these tints are of service to these birds and insects in preserving them from danger.
"Grouse, if not destroyed at some period of their lives, would increase in countless numbers. They are known to suffer largely from birds of prey. Hawks are guided by eyesight to their prey- so much so, that on parts of the Continent persons are warned not to keep white pigeons, as being the most liable to destruction.
"Hence natural selection might be effective in giving the proper colour to each kind of grouse, and in keeping that colour, when once acquired, true and constant.
"Nor ought we to think that the occasional destruction of an animal of any particular colour would produce little effect. We should remember how essential it is in a flock of white sheep to destroy a lamb with the faintest trace of black.
"We have seen how the colour of the hogs, which feed on the "paint-root" in Virginia, determines whether they shall live or die.
"In plants, the down on the fruit and the colour of the flesh are considered by botanists as characters of the most trifling importance. Yet we hear from an excellent horticulturist, Downing, that in the United States, smooth-skinned fruits suffer far more from a beetle, a Curculio, than those with down -- that purple plums suffer far more from a certain disease than yellow plums -- whereas another disease attacks yellow-fleshed peaches far more than those with other coloured flesh.
"If, with all the aids of art, these slight differences make a great difference in cultivating the several varieties, assuredly, in a state of nature -- where the trees would have to struggle with other trees, and with a host of enemies -- such differences would effectually settle which variety, whether a smooth or downy, a yellow or purple fleshed fruit, should succeed."
I believe this paragraph speaks for itself.
Robby
"It is also necessary to bear in mind that, owing to the law of correlation, when one part varies, and the variations are accumulated through natural selection, other modifications, often of the most unexpected nature, will ensue."
This must have driven early breeders crazy. They bred for color, for instance, and the offspring had the color they wanted but also an unwanted physical defect.
Robby
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"If it profit a plant to have its seeds more and more widely disseminated by the wind, I can see no greater difficulty in this being effected through natural selection, than in the cotton-planter increasing and improving by selection the down in the pods on his cotton-trees.
"Natural selection may modify and adapt the larva of an insect to a score of contingencies, wholly different from those which concern the mature insect. These modifications may affect, through correlation, the structure of the adult.
"So, conversely, modifications in the adult may affect the structure of the larva. In all cases natural selection will ensure that they shall not be injurious: for if they were so, the species would become extinct."
Please work along with me on this, folks. Here is what I am understanding. Breeders have found that variations in their animals and plants occur at certain times of the organism's life. These variations, he says, seem to appear in the offspring at the very same time of life. He asks us to look at various examples he gives us -- the silkworm caterpillar and cocoon stages -- the stage when the color of the down of chicks changes -- the period during adulthood when the horns of sheep and cattle grow. Nature accumulates the variations which are beneficial to the organism and causes the offspring to have the same benefits, also at the same period in the offspring's life as the parent's was. When Nature sees that the plant benefits by having its seeds distributed by the wind, then Nature increases and improves the amount of down on the pods -- acting, if you will, as a breeder would. Whatever changes Nature makes or modifies, it always does this in a manner to improve the organism. If it did not do so, the species, in its battle against other organisms, would die. And yes, I know I am speaking metaphorically of Nature just as Darwin does.
Robby
Robby
What you call "nature" does not accumulate only variations which are beneficial. So-called "nature" also accumulates variations which might be, eventually, disadvantageous to a species. Such variations
might not manifest themselves right away, in only a few generations.
Nor is Darwin's supposition that variations occur in the "same period" a widely accepted fact, IMO. But once again, he was making an educated guess at what was going on, since it would be decades before anyone
would begin to understand that genes are expressed at different times in the life of any organism.
Here's a link to the term gene expression:
gene expression
p.s. I was away for a long weekend, but will be trying to participate again.
If Darwin personifies (anthropomorphizes) Nature as he did in a previous paragraph (see below), then I am in good company. As he indicates, sometimes that makes it just a bit easier to understand even though we know deep within us that there is no Mother Nature. As he said:-"Let's forget such superficial objections."
Darwin said the following:-
"Others have objected that the term selection implies conscious choice in the animals which become modified. It has even been urged that, as plants have no volition, natural selection is not applicable to them!
"In the literal sense of the word, no doubt, natural selection is a false term. But who ever objected to chemists speaking of the elective affinities of the various elements? Yet an acid cannot strictly be said to elect the base with which it in preference combines.
"It has been said that I speak of natural selection as an active power or Deity. But who objects to an author speaking of the attraction of gravity as ruling the movements of the planets?
"Every one knows what is meant and is implied by such metaphorical expressions -- and they are almost necessary for brevity.
"So again it is difficult to avoid personifying the word Nature. I mean by Nature, only the aggregate action and product of many natural laws -- and by laws the sequence of events as ascertained by us.
"With a little familiarity such superficial objections will be forgotten."
"In social animals it will adapt the structure of each individual for the benefit of the whole community, if the community profits by the selected change.
"What natural selection cannot do, is to modify the structure of one species, without giving it any advantage, for the good Of another species. Though statements to this effect may be found in works of natural history, I cannot find one case which will bear investigation.
"A structure used only once in an animal's life, if of high importance to it, might be modified to any extent by natural selection. For instance, the great jaws possessed by certain insects, used exclusively for opening the cocoon- or the hard tip to the beak of unhatched birds, used for breaking the egg.
"It has been asserted, that of the best short-beaked tumbler-pigeons a greater number perish in the egg than are able to get out of it so that fanciers assist in the act of hatching.
"Now if nature had to make the beak of a full-grown pigeon very short for the bird's own advantage, the process of modification would be very slow. There would be simultaneously the most rigorous selection of all the young birds within the egg, which had the most powerful and hardest beaks, for all with weak beaks would inevitably perish. More delicate and more easily broken shells might be selected, the thickness of the shell being known to vary like every other structure."
I'm having trouble. Can you people help me with understanding this?
Robby
Robby
"For instance a vast number of eggs or seeds are annually devoured, and these could be modified through natural selection only if they varied in some manner which protected them from their enemies. Yet many of these eggs or seeds would perhaps, if not destroyed, have yielded individuals better adapted to their conditions of life than any of these which happened to survive.
"So again a vast number of mature animals and plants, whether or not they be the best adapted to their conditions, must be annually destroyed by accidental causes -- which would not be in the least degree mitigated by certain changes of structure or constitution which would in other ways be beneficial to the species.
"But let the destruction of the adults be ever so heavy -- if the number which can exist in any district be not wholly kept down by such causes,- or again let the destruction of eggs or seeds be so great that only a hundredth or a thousandth part are developed -- yet of those which do survive, the best adapted individuals, supposing that there is any variability in favourable direction, will tend to propagate their kind in larger numbers than the less well adapted.
"If the numbers be wholly kept down by the causes just indicated, as will often have been the case, natural selection will be powerless in certain beneficial directions. But this is no valid objection to its efficiency at other times and in other ways. We are far from having any reason to suppose that many species ever undergo modification and improvement at the same time in the same area."
Darwin reminds us that in the course of change much life is destroyed -- e.g. life in the form of eggs and seeds -- eaten or broken. Some of these eggs or seeds might have been more fit to become adults than those which remained but we have no way of knowing as they were destroyed. But he adds that no matter what percentage are destroyed, of those that remain the best adapted individuals will be the ones that create offspring. So Nature is held back, so to speak, because it can only work on those organisms that survive from accidental death.
Robby
"Thus it is rendered possible for the two sexes to be modified through natural selection in relation to different habits of life, as is sometimes the case -- or for one sex to be modified in relation to the other sex, as commonly occurs.
"This leads me to say a few words on what I have called Sexual Selection. This form of selection depends, not on a struggle for existence in relation to other organic beings or to external conditions, but on a struggle between the individuals of one sex -- generally the males -- for the possession of the other sex. The result is not death to the unsuccessful competitor, but few or no offspring.
"Sexual selection is, therefore, less rigorous than natural selection.
"Generally, the most vigorous males, those which are best fitted for their places in nature, will leave most progeny. But in many cases, victory depends not so much on general vigor, as on having special weapons, confined to the male sex.
"A hornless stag or spurless cock would have a poor chance of leaving numerous offspring. Sexual selection, by always allowing the victor to breed, might surely give indomitable courage -- length to the spur -- and strength to the wing to strike in the spurred leg -- in nearly the same manner as does the brutal cockfighter by the careful selection of his best cocks.
"How low in the scale of nature the law of battle descends, I know not. Male alligators have been described as fighting, bellowing, and whirling round, like Indians in a war-dance, for the possession of the females. Male salmons have been observed fighting all day long. Male stagbeetles sometimes bear wounds from the huge mandibles of other males. The males of certain hymenopterous insects have been frequently seen by that inimitable observer M. Fabre, fighting for a particular female who sits by, an apparently unconcerned beholder of the struggle, and then retires with the conqueror.
"The war is, perhaps, severest between the males of polygamous animals, and these seem oftenest provided with special weapons.
"The males of carnivorous animals are already well armed -- though to them and to others, special means of defence may be given through means of sexual selection -- as the mane of the lion, and the hooked jaw to the male salmon.
"The shield may be as important for victory, as the sword or spear."
Darwin is easily understood in this paragraph and I look forward to numerous comments from participants here. I found especially important the last sentence indicating that good defense is as important as offense in winning the female. And how about that phrase about "a particular female who sits by, an apparently unconcerned beholder of the struggle." Your thoughts?
Robby
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Robby
The part I don't know is whether good singing is equal to a male who is stronger or braver or ... who can say? But the entire species might benefit from an enhancement of the genes for excellent singing, as it could enable better, more successful mating throughout the species, as females "perk up" to hear a male bird sing.
Does this make sense?
"Amongst birds, the contest is often of a more peaceful character.
"All those who have attended to the subject believe that there is the severest rivalry between the males of many species to attract, by singing, the females.
"The rock-thrush of Guiana, birds of paradise, and some others, congregate. Successive males display with the most elaborate care, and show off in the best manner, their gorgeous plumage. They likewise perform strange antics before the females, which, standing by as spectators, at last choose the most attractive partner.
"Those who have closely attended to birds in confinement well know that they often take individual preferences and dislikes. Thus Sir R. Heron has described how a pied peacock was eminently attractive to all his hen birds.
"I cannot here enter on the necessary details. But if man can in a short time give beauty and an elegant carriage to his bantams, according to his standard of beauty, I can see no good reason to doubt that female birds -- by selecting, during thousands of generations, the most melodious or beautiful males, according to their standard of beauty -- might produce a marked effect.
"Some well-known laws -- with respect to the plumage of male and female birds, in comparison with the plumage of the young -- can partly be explained through the action of sexual selection on variations occurring at different ages, and transmitted to the males alone or to both sexes at corresponding ages. I have not space here to enter on this subject."
Any way you slice it, the females hold the veto power.
Robby
"Yet, I would not wish to attribute all sexual differences to this agency. We see in our domestic animals peculiarities arising and becoming attached to the male sex, which apparently have not been augmented through selection by man.
"The tuft of hair on the breast of the wild turkey-cock cannot be of any use, and it is doubtful whether it can be ornamental in the eyes of the female bird. Indeed, had the tuft appeared under domestication, it would have been called a monstrosity."
How does Darwin know that this tuft of hair is not of any use?
Robby
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I think everyone else is sleeping.
Robby
"Let us take the case of a wolf, which preys on various animals, securing some by craft, some by strength, and some by fleetness.
"Let us suppose that the fleetest prey, a deer for instance, had from any change in the country increased in numbers -- or that other prey had decreased in numbers, during that season of the year when the wolf was hardest pressed for food.
"Under such circumstances the swiftest and slimmest wolves would have the best chance of surviving and so be preserved or selected -- provided always that they retained strength to master their prey at this or some other period of the year, when they were compelled to prey on other animals.
"I can see no more reason to doubt that this would be the result, than that man should be able to improve the fleetness of his greyhounds by careful and methodical selection, or by that kind of unconscious selection which follows from each man trying to keep the best dogs without any thought of modifying the breed.
"I may add, that, according to Mr. Pierce, there are two varieties of the wolf inhabiting the Catskill Mountains, in the United States -- one with a light greyhound-like form, which pursues deer -- and the other more bulky, with shorter legs, which more frequently attacks the shepherd's flocks."
I believe that Darwin is once again comparing Nature with Man. If Man can improve the fleetness of his greyhounds generation by generation, then Nature can do it with wolves generation by generation. The wolf with the shorter legs, he says, doesn't bother with the deer but preys on the slower sheep.
Robby
Robby
"In former editions of this work I sometimes spoke as if this latter alternative had frequently occurred.
"I saw the great importance of individual differences, and this led me fully to discuss the results of unconscious selection by man, which depends on the preservation of all the more or less valuable individuals, and on the destruction of the worst.
"I saw, also, that the preservation in a state of nature of any occasional deviation of structure, such as a monstrosity, would be a rare event -- and that, if at first preserved, it would generally be lost by subsequent intercrossing with ordinary individuals.
"Nevertheless, until reading an able and valuable article in the North British Review (1867), I did not appreciate how rarely single variations, whether slight or strongly-marked, could be. perpetuated. The author takes the case of a pair of animals, producing during their lifetime two hundred offspring, of which, from various causes of destruction, only two on an average survive to procreate their kind.
"This is rather an extreme estimate for most of the higher animals, but by no means so for many of the lower organisms.
"He then shows that if a single individual were born, which varied in some manner -- giving it twice as good a chance of life as that of the other individuals -- yet the chances would be strongly against its survival.
"Supposing it to survive and to breed, and that half its young inherited the favourable variation -- still, as the reviewer goes on to show, the young would have only a slightly better chance of surviving and breeding. This chance would go on decreasing in the succeeding generations.
"The justice of these remarks cannot, I think, be disputed. If, for instance, a bird of some kind could procure its food more easily by having its beak curved -- and if one were born with its beak strongly curved, and which consequently flourished -- nevertheless there would be a very poor chance of this one individual perpetuating its kind to the exclusion of the common form.
"There can hardly be a doubt, judging by what we see taking place under domestication, that this result would follow from the preservation during many generations of a large number of individuals with more or less strongly curved beaks, and from the destruction of a still larger number with the straightest beaks."
If I can over-simplify here, I believe Darwin is saying that in Nature destruction is commonplace -- that, in fact, that more organisms are destroyed than survive. This being so, he says, the odds of one specific individual difference surviving and breeding are infinitestimal.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"In such cases, if the varying individual did not actually transmit to its offspring its newly-acquired character, it would undoubtedly transmit to them -- as long as the existing conditions remained the same -- a still stronger tendency to vary in the same manner.
"There can also be little doubt that the tendency to vary in the same manner has often been so strong that all the individuals of the same species have been similarly modified without the aid of any form of selection.
"Only a third, fifth, or tenth part of the individuals may have been thus affected, of which fact several instances could be given.
"Thus Graba estimates that about one-fifth of the guillemots in the Faroe Islands consist of a variety so well marked, that it was formerly ranked as a distinct species under the name of Uria lacrymans.
"In cases of this kind, if the variation were of a beneficial nature, the original form would soon be supplanted by the modified form, through the survival of the fittest."
Darwin tells us here (I believe) that when major variations occur, the parent often transmits either the variation to its offspring or at least a "tendency" to vary in that manner. He even sees entire groups of organisms in the same species changing in this manner. (This seems like a big jump in logic to me.) Darwin calls these changes "newly-acquired characters." I'm trying to think of the name of the man in the Soviet Union who spoke of the passing along of newly acquired characters to offspring, and he was roundly derided. If my mother taught me to be a good reader, can that newly acquired character be passed along to my children?
Robby
Robby
Robby
"But it may be here remarked that most animals and plants keep to their proper homes, and do not needlessly wander about. We see this even with migratory birds, which almost always return to the same spot.
"Consequently each newly-formed variety would generally be at first local, as seems to be the common rule with varieties in a state of nature. So that similarly modified individuals would soon exist in a small body together, and would often breed together.
"If the new variety were successful in its battle for life, it would slowly spread from a central district, competing with and conquering the unchanged individuals on the margins of an ever-increasing circle."
I believe this is fairly clear.
Robby
Robby
"Certain plants excrete sweet juice, apparently for the sake of eliminating something injurious from the sap. This is effected, for instance, by glands at the base of the stipules in some Leguminosae and at the backs of the leaves of the common laurel.
"This juice, though small in quantity, is greedily sought by insects. But their visits do not in any way benefit the plant.
"Now, let us suppose that the juice or nectar was excreted from the inside of the flowers of a certain number of plants of any species. Insects in seeking the nectar would get dusted with pollen, and would often transport it from one flower to another.
"The flowers of two distinct individuals of the same species would thus get crossed; and the act of crossing, as can be fully proved, gives rise to vigorous seedlings which consequently would have the best chance of flourishing and surviving
"The plants which produced flowers with the largest glands or nectaries, excreting most nectar, would oftenest be visited by insects, and would oftenest be crossed -- and so in the long run would gain the upper hand and form a local variety.
"The flowers, also, which had their stamens and pistils placed, in relation to the size and habits of the particular insects which visited them -- so as to favour in any degree the transportal of the pollen -- would likewise be favoured.
"We might have taken the case of insects visiting flowers for the sake of collecting pollen instead of nectar, As pollen is formed for the sole purpose of fertilisation, its destruction appears to be a simple loss to the plant. Yet if a little pollen were carried, at first occasionally and then habitually, by the pollen-devouring insects from flower to flower, and a cross thus effected -- although nine-tenths of the pollen were destroyed it might still be a great gain to the plant to be thus robbed.
"The individuals which produced more and more pollen, and had larger anthers, would be selected."
So more is better? Any comments about cross-fertilization?
Robby
Robby
"That they do this effectually, I could easily show by many striking facts.
"I will give only one, as likewise illustrating one step in the separation of the sexes of plants. Some holly-trees bear only male flowers, which have four stamens producing a rather small quantity of pollen, and a rudimentary pistil. Other holly-trees bear only female flowers. These have a full-sized pistil, and four stamens with shrivelled anthers, in which not a grain of pollen can be detected.
"Having found a female tree exactly sixty yards from a male tree, I put the stigmas of twenty flowers, taken from different branches, under the microscope. On all, without exception, there were a few pollen grains, and on some a profusion.
"As the wind had set for several days from the female to the male tree, the pollen could not thus have been carried. The weather had been cold and boisterous, and therefore not favourable to bees. Nevertheless every female flower which I examined had been effectually fertilised by the bees, which had flown from tree to tree in search of nectar.
"But to return to our imaginary case -- as soon as the plant had been rendered so highly attractive to insects that pollen was regularly carried from flower to flower, another process might commence.
"No naturalist doubts the advantage of what has been called the "physiological division of labour". Hence we may believe that it would be advantageous to a plant to produce stamens alone in one flower or on one whole plant, and pistils alone in another flower or on another plant.
"In plants under culture and placed under new conditions of life, sometimes the male organs and sometimes the female organs become more or less impotent. Now if we suppose this to occur in ever so slight a degree under nature -- then, as pollen is already carried regularly from flower to flower -- and as a more complete separation of the sexes of our plant would be advantageous on the principle of the division of labour -- individuals with this tendency more and more increased, would be continually favoured or selected, until at last a complete separation of the sexes might be effected.
"It would take up too much space to show the various steps, through dimorphism and other means, by which the separation of the sexes in plants of various kinds is apparently now in progress. I may add that some of the species of holly in North America, are, according to Asa Gray, in an exactly intermediate condition, or, as he expresses it, are more or less dioeciously polygamous."
Anyone want to help me here explaining how plants separated into sexes and the advantage of this?
Robby
Robby
"Let us now turn to the nectar-feeding insects. We may suppose the plant, of which we have been slowly increasing the nectar by continued selection, to be a common plant -- that certain insects depended in main part on its nectar for food.
"I could give many facts showing how anxious bees are to save time -- for instance, their habit of cutting holes and sucking the nectar at the bases of certain flowers -- which, with a very little more trouble, they can enter by the mouth.
"Bearing such facts in mind, it may be believed that under certain circumstances individual differences in the curvature or length of the proboscis -- too slight to be appreciated by us -- might profit a bee or other insect.
"Certain individuals would be able to obtain their food more quickly than others. Thus the communities to which they belonged would flourish and throw off many swarms inheriting the same peculiarities.
"The tubes of the corolla of the common red and incarnate clovers (Trifolium pratense and incarnatum) do not on a hasty glance appear to differ in length. Yet the hive-bee can easily suck the nectar out of the incarnate clover, but not out of the common red clover, which is visited by humble-bees alone.
"Whole fields of red clover offer in vain an abundant supply of precious nectar to the hive-bee.
"That this nectar is much liked by the hive-bee is certain. I have repeatedly seen, but only in the autumn, many hive-bees sucking the flowers through holes bitten in the base of the tube by humble-bees.
"The difference in the length of the corolla in the two kinds of clover, which determines the visits of the hive-bee, must be very trifling. I have been assured that when red clover has been mown, the flowers of the second crop are somewhat smaller, and that these are visited by many hive-bees.
"I do not know whether this statement is accurate -- nor whether another published statement can be trusted -- namely, that the Ligurian bee which is generally considered a mere variety of the common hive-bee, and which freely crosses with it, is able to reach and suck the nectar of the red clover.
"In a country where this kind of clover abounded, it might be a great advantage to the hive-bee to have a slightly longer or differently constructed proboscis.
"On the other hand, as the fertility of this clover absolutely depends on bees visiting the flowers, if humble-bees were to become rare in any country, it might be a great advantage to the plant to have a, shorter or more deeply divided corolla, so that the hive-bees should be enabled to suck its flowers.
"Thus I can understand how a flower and a bee might slowly become -- either simultaneously or one after the other -- modified and adapted to each other in the most perfect manner, by the continued preservation of all the individuals which presented slight deviations of structure mutually favourable to each other."
I believe that Darwin's last sentence tells the whole story. The earlier part of the paragraph gives facts to back it up. He is saying, if I understand correctly, that the clover and the bees work together as a team, so to speak, and that each organism changes over the generations to adapt to each other. The shape of the flower's corolla changes to make it easier for the bee to obtain the nectar and the length or shape of the bee's "tongue" also changes over generations for the same reason. Makes sense?
Robby
Robby
"But we now seldom hear the agencies which we see still at work, spoken of as trifling or insignificant, when used in explaining the excavation of the deepest valleys or the formation of long lines of inland cliffs.
"Natural selection acts only by the preservation and accumulation of small inherited modifications, each profitable to the preserved being.
"As modern geology has almost banished such views as the excavation of a great valley by a single diluvial wave, so will natural selection banish the belief of the continued creation of new organic beings, or of any great and sudden modification in their structure."
Darwin here compares his theory with certain geologic theories. He tells us that geologists used to think that deep valleys were carved out suddenly by giant waves but they have changed their thinking. They now believe that these valleys were carved out ever so slowly much in the same way that the Grand Canyon was slowly carved out by the Colorado River. Just as rocks evolve, he tells us, so living organisms evolve in the very same minute step by step over the eons. He calls this Natural Selection.
Robby
"In the case of animals and plants with separated sexes, it is of course obvious that two individuals must always (with the exception of the curious and not well-understood cases of parthenogenesis) unite for each birth.
"But in the case of hermaphrodites this is far from obvious. Nevertheless there is reason to believe that with all hermaphrodites two individuals, either occasionally or habitually, concur for the reproduction of their kind.
"This view was long ago doubtfully suggested by Sprengel, Knight and Kolreuter. We shall presently see its importance. But I must here treat the subject with extreme brevity, though I have the materials prepared for an ample discussion.
"All vertebrate animals, all insects, and some other large groups of animals, pair for each birth. Modern research has much diminished the number of supposed hermaphrodites, and of real hermaphrodites a large number pair -- that is, two individuals regularly unite for reproduction, which is all that concerns us.
"But still there are many hermaphrodite animals which certainly do not habitually pair, and a vast majority of plants are hermaphrodites.
"What reason, it may be asked, is there for supposing in these cases that two individuals ever concur in reproduction? As it is impossible here to enter on details, I must trust to some general considerations alone."
To help us here, let us link to some definitions.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"On the other hand, that close interbreeding diminishes vigour and fertility -- that these facts alone incline me to believe that it is a general law of nature that no organic being fertilises itself for a perpetuity of generations.
"But that a cross with another individual is occasionally- perhaps at long intervals of time- indispensable."
Darwin gives us such long sentences! But let us break this down. The large number of experiments he did showed the following:-- 1 - A cross between different varieties gives vigor and fertility to the offspring. Any thoughts about close interbreeding?
2 - A cross between individuals of the same variety (but another strain) also gives vigor and fertility.
3 - Close interbreeding diminishes vigor and fertility.
4 - Darwin therefore concludes that no organism fertilizes itself for a long line of generations.
5 - He also concludes that a cross with another individual over a long period of time is indispensable.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Every hybridizer knows how unfavourable exposure to wet is to the fertilisation of a flower, yet what a multitude of flowers have their anthers and stigmas fully exposed to the weather!
"If an occasional cross be indispensable -- notwithstanding that the plant's own anthers and pistil stand so near each other as almost to insure self-fertilisation -- the fullest freedom for the entrance of pollen from another individual will explain the above state of exposure of the organs.
"Many flowers, on the other hand, have their organs of fructification closely enclosed, as in the great papilionaceous or pea-family. These almost invariably present beautiful and curious adaptations in relation to the visits of insects.
"So necessary are the visits of bees to many papilionaceous flowers, that their fertility is greatly diminished if these visits be prevented. It is scarcely possible for insects to fly from flower and flower, and not to carry pollen from one to the other, to the great good of the plant.
"Insects act like a camel-hair pencil, and it is sufficient to ensure fertilisation, just to touch with the same brush the anthers of one flower and then the stigma of another. But it must not be supposed that bees would thus produce a multitude of hybrids between distinct species.
"If a plant's own pollen and that from another species are placed on the same stigma, the former is so prepotent that it invariably and completely destroys, as has been shown by Gartner, the influence of the foreign pollen."
Will someone help me to understand this?
Robby
One would assume that plants like peas, or others which require insects for cross-pollination, did not evolve until insects had also come into being. However, I don't have a reference for this.
It looks like Darwin's contemporary did experiments by trying to cross-pollinate plants, with a brush or similar tool, and found out that species of plants that were dissimilar did not successfully cross.
Is that your understanding of this paragraph?
Robby
"No doubt it is useful for this end. But the agency of insects is often required to cause the stamens to spring forward, as Kolreuter has shown to be the case with the barberry.
"In this very genus, which seems to have a special contrivance for self-fertilisation, it is well known that -- if closely allied forms or varieties are planted near each other -- it is hardly possible to raise pure seedlings, so largely do they naturally cross.
"In numerous other cases -- far from self-fertilisation being favoured -- there are special contrivances which effectually prevent the stigma receiving pollen from its own flower -- as I could show from the works of Sprengel and others, as well as from my own observations.
"For instance, in Lobelia fulgens, there is a really beautiful and elaborate contrivance by which all the infinitely numerous pollen-granules are swept out of the conjoined anthers of each flower, before the stigma of that individual flower is ready to receive them.
"As this flower is never visited, at least in my garden, by insects, it never sets a seed, though by placing pollen from one flower on the stigma of another, I raise plenty of seedlings.
"Another species of Lobelia which is visited by bees, seeds freely in my garden. In very many other cases, though, there is no special mechanical contrivance to prevent the stigma receiving pollen from the same flower.
"Yet, as Sprengel, and more recently Hildebrand, and others, have shown, and as I can confirm, either the anthers burst before the stigma is ready for fertilisation, or the stigma is ready before the pollen of that flower is ready.
"These so-named dichogamous plants have in fact separated sexes, and must habitually be crossed.
"So it is with the reciprocally dimorphic and trimorphic plants previously alluded to.
"How strange are these facts! How strange that the pollen and stigmatic surface of the same flower, though placed so close together, as if for the very purpose of self-fertilisation, should be in so many cases mutually useless to each other!
"How simply are these facts explained on the view of an occasional cross with a distinct individual being advantageous or indispensable!"
Let me see if I have this correct. The stamens are the male organs. The pistil is the female organ. I have no idea what the stigma are. The stamens often suddenly spring toward the pistil. (How male can you get?) However, Darwin says, the action of insects (bees for instance?) is often needed to get the stamens to do their springing. One would think, he says, that with the stamens and pistil being so close together that self-fertilization would take place. But not so. There are mechanical "contrivances" which prevent the stigma from receiving pollen from its own flower. One of the mechanical "contrivances" "sweeps out" the pollen before the stigma is ready to receive it. In Darwin's garden no insects ever visit this flower so it never sets a seed. On the other hand, when Darwin placed the pollen from another flower on the stigma of the original flower, there were plenty of seedings. There are some flowers, according to Darwin, which do not have contrivances which sweep the pollen away but the anthers burst before the stigma is ready or the stigma is ready before the pollen is ready. And so while such plants which have both male and female organs within each plant, nevertheless they must be crossed with another plant. In effect, the male organ and the female organ within the same plant are useless to each other. How strange, comments Darwin!
Robby
I guess it is the sticky part of the female organ (pistil) which holds onto the pollen.
Do you think the Senior Net "powers that be" are going to banish us for our pornographic messages? Steady as you go, folks.
Robby
I guess the anther is the portion of the male organ (stamen) which produces pollen.
As we read this, does it strike any of you how similar are the reproductive organs of plants and mammals, for instance?
Robby
Sort of like a man who is "ready" and a woman who is "ready" (if you get my drift) but somehow don't walk on the same street at the same time.
Isn't that sad about that poor plant?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen
The saddest are "it might have been."
Robby
Robby
Robby
"For instance, I raised 233 seedling cabbages from some plants of different varieties growing near each other, and of these only 78 were true to their kind, and some even of these were not perfectly true.
"Yet the pistil of each cabbage-flower is surrounded not only by its own six stamens but by those of the many other flowers on the same plant. And the pollen of each flower readily gets on its own stigma without insect agency. I have found that plants carefully protected from insects produce the full number of pods.
"How, then, comes it that such a vast number of the seedlings are mongrelized? It must arise from the pollen of a distinct variety having a prepotent effect over the flower's own pollen -- and that this is part of the general law of good being derived from the intercrossing of distinct individuals of the same species.
"When distinct species are crossed the case is reversed, for a plant's own pollen is almost always prepotent over foreign pollen.
"To this subject we shall return in a future chapter."
Can it be, as Darwin thinks, that the pollen of a different plant can be more powerful than the pollen of the plant itself, and therefore fertilize it? Do you agree with Darwin that "this is part of the general law of good being?"
Robby
"I believe this objection to be valid, but that nature has largely provided against it by giving to trees a strong tendency to bear flowers with separated sexes.
"When the sexes are separated, although the male and female flowers may be produced on the same tree, pollen must be regularly carried from flower to flower. This will give a better chance of pollen being occasionally carried from tree to tree.
"That trees belonging to all Orders have their sexes more often separated than other plants, I find to be the case in this country.
"At my request Dr. Hooker tabulated the trees of New Zealand, and Dr. Asa Gray those of the United States. The result was as I anticipated.
"On the other hand, Dr. Hooker informs me that the rule does not hold good in Australia but if most of the Australian trees are dichogamous, the same result would follow as if they bore flowers with separated sexes.
I have made these few remarks on trees simply to call attention to the subject."
I believe that Darwin is briefly telling us here that trees contain both male and female flowers. I hadn't known that.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"As yet I have not found a single terrestrial animal which can fertilise itself.
"This remarkable fact -- which offers so strong a contrast with terrestrial plants -- is intelligible on the view of an occasional cross being indispensable. For owing to the nature of the fertilising element there are no means -- analogous to the action of insects and of the wind with plants -- by which an occasional cross could be effected with terrestrial animals without the concurrence of two individuals.
"Of aquatic animals, there are many self-fertilizing hermaphrodites. But here the currents of water offer an obvious means for an occasional cross.
"As in the case of flowers, I have as yet failed -- after consultation with one of the highest authorities, namely, Professor Huxley -- to discover a single hermaphrodite animal with the organs of reproduction so perfectly enclosed that access from without, and the occasional influence of a distinct individual, can be shown to be physically impossible.
"Cirripedes long appeared to me to present, under this point of view, a case of great difficulty. But I have been enabled, by a fortunate chance, to prove that two individuals, though both are self-fertilising hermaphrodites, do sometimes cross."
I'm not sure here but I believe that Darwin has said that his examination of land animals indicates that their sex organs are such that the two animals must touch. One can not rely on, for example, wind or water currents.
Robby
"But if, in fact, all hermaphrodites do occasionally intercross, the difference between them and unisexual species is, as far as function is concerned, very small.
From these several considerations and from the many special facts which I have collected -- but which I am unable here to give -- it appears that with animals and plants an occasional intercross between distinct individuals is a very general, if not universal, law of nature."
Any comments here?
Robby
Robby
"A great amount of variability -- under which term individual differences are always included -- will evidently be favourable. A large number of individuals -- by giving a better chance within any given period for the appearance of profitable variations -- will compensate for a lesser amount of variability in each individual, and is, I believe, a highly important element of success.
"Though Nature grants long periods of time for the work of natural selection, she does not grant an indefinite period. As all organic beings are striving to seize on each place in the economy of nature, if any one species does not become modified and improved in a corresponding degree with its competitors, it will be exterminated.
"Unless favourable variations be inherited by some at least of the offspring, nothing can be effected by natural selection.
"The tendency to reversion may often check or prevent the work. But as this tendency has not prevented man from forming by selection numerous domestic races, why should it prevail against natural selection?"
Very interesting. Nature is patient only to a degree. Every organism, and I understand what he is telling us -- EVERY organism -- is struggling for life against every other organism. In this battle the more variability there is, the better the chance for survival. Numbers are important. Variability among large numbers of individuals wins out over variability within one individual. In these large numbers, as I understand it, there are more chances for variability which improves the organism. And, if I understand correctly, if there is no improvement, that trait does not remain within the individual. There MUST be improvement. What I don't understand is how does Nature define improvement or success? Any thoughts here?
Robby
As for improvement meaning "strength," Mal, there are varying meanings of strength. Doesn't the strongest buck with the largest antlers often lose because they tangle him up? What did you have in mind?
Robby
Robby
"But when many men, without intending to alter the breed, have a nearly common standard of perfection -- and all try to procure and breed from the best animals -- improvement surely but slowly follows from this unconscious process of selection -- notwithstanding that there is no separation of selected individuals.
"Thus it will be under nature. Within a confined area -- with some place in the natural polity not perfectly occupied -- all the individuals varying in the right direction, though in different degrees, will tend to be preserved.
"But if the area be large, its several districts will almost certainly present different conditions of life. Then, if the same species undergoes modification in different districts, the newly-formed varieties will intercross on the confines of each.
"But we shall see in the sixth chapter that intermediate varieties, inhabiting intermediate districts, will in the long run generally be supplanted by one of the adjoining varieties. Intercrossing will chiefly affect those animals which unite for each birth and wander much, and which do not breed at a very quick rate.
"Hence with animals of this nature -- for instance, birds -- varieties will generally be confined to separated countries. This I find to be the case.
"With hermaphrodite organisms which cross only occasionally -- and likewise with animals which unite for each birth, but which wander little and can increase at a rapid rate -- a new and improved variety might be quickly formed on any one spot, and might there maintain itself in a body and afterwards spread, so that the individuals of the new variety would chiefly cross together.
"On this principle, nurserymen always prefer saving seed from a large body of plants, as the chance of intercrossing is thus lessened."
I think I need some help here. How do you people "translate" this?
Robby
Robby
"I can bring forward a considerable body of facts showing that within the same area, two varieties of the same animal may long remain distinct -- from haunting different stations -- from breeding at slightly different seasons -- or from the individuals of each variety preferring to pair together."
Another example of the environment affecting breeding -- different locations or different times of the year. I am interested, however, in their having "preferences" as to their mate. Are we anthropomorphizing (what a word!) here or are we agreeing that Nature is completely without emotion and what we call preference has a very scientific reason?
Robby
Robby
"It will obviously thus act far more efficiently with those animals which unite for each birth. But, as already stated, we have reason to believe that occasional intercrosses take place with all animals and plants.
"Even if these take place only at long intervals of time -- the young thus produced will gain so much in vigour and fertility over the offspring from long-continued self-fertilisation, that they will have a better chance of surviving and propagating their kind. Thus in the long run the influence of crosses, even at rare intervals, will be great.
"With respect to organic beings extremely low in the scale -- which do not propagate sexually, nor conjugate, and which cannot possibly intercross -- uniformity of character can be retained by them under the same conditions of life, only through the principle of inheritance, and through natural selection which will destroy any individuals departing from the proper type.
"If the conditions of life change and the form undergoes modification, uniformity of character can be given to the modified offspring, solely by natural selection preserving similar favourable variations."
There's something here I don't understand. Darwin says that intercrossing keeps the individuals true and uniform in character. But I would think that sexual activity within the same plant would do the same -- that there is no outside interference. Any thoughts here? In any event he goes on to say that intercrossing takes place with ALL animals and plants. Offspring from self-fertilization do not produce offspring as vigorous and fertile as those from intercrossing, he says. Those offspring from intercrossing therefore have a better chance of surviving and reproducing. Those organisms low on the scale (I would imagine he is thinking perhaps of worms) which are hemaphroditic, they keep their vigor and individuality through the "principle of inheritance" (whatever that is) and through Natural Selection which destroys those organisms which are not true to form. If the environment changes, Darwin says, and this modifies the organism, then Natural Selection protects those with the greatest ability to survive and reproduce. Please help me with this paragraph, people.
Robby
Robby
IMO, mental illness is not measureable in non-human animals.
What does everyone else think?
Robby ~
I cannot follow your latest question about intercrossing in plants.
Many species of food-plants remain stable and productive for hundreds of years without any
so-called crossing being done.
Robby
"In a confined or isolated area, if not very large, the organic and inorganic conditions of life will generally be almost uniform. Natural selection will tend to modify all the varying individuals of the same species in the same manner.
"Intercrossing with the inhabitants of the surrounding districts will, also, be thus prevented.
"Moritz Wagner has lately published an interesting essay on this subject, and has shown that the service rendered by isolation in preventing crosses between newly-formed varieties is probably greater even than I supposed. But from reasons already assigned I can by no means agree with this naturalist, that migration and isolation are necessary elements for the formation of new species.
"The importance of isolation is likewise great in preventing, after any physical change in the conditions, such as of climate, elevation of the land, &c., the immigration of better adapted organisms.
"Thus new places in the natural economy of the district will be left open to be filled up by the modification of the old inhabitants.
"Lastly, isolation will give time for a new variety to be improved at a slow rate. This may sometimes be of much importance.
"If, however, an isolated area be very small, either from being surrounded by barriers, or from having very peculiar physical conditions, the total number of the inhabitants will be small. This will retard the production of new species through natural selection, by decreasing the chances of favourable variations arising."
When Darwin talks of a confined or isolated area, I think of a greenhouse where, if it kept under sterile conditions, there is no way for cross breeding. As he says, the conditions of life (environment) will be almost uniform -- same temperature, same controlled light, etc. I believe he is saying that Nature also, in certain areas of the planet, keeps the same temperature or amount of light. Darwin does not agree with Wagner's contention that isolation is necessary to form a new species. Migration? I'm not sure what they are referring to here. When talking about larger isolated areas, I think of Australia. Darwin says that isolation prevents better adapted organisms to enter. I find myself getting a bit confused with paragraph. It's early in the morning. I need to pause and think this over. What are your thoughts, folks?
Robby
"I state this because it has been erroneously asserted that the element of time has been assumed by me to play an all-important part in modifying species, as if all the forms of life were necessarily undergoing change through some innate law.
"Lapse of time is only so far important -- and its importance in this respect is great -- that it gives a better chance of beneficial variations arising and of their being selected, accumulated, and fixed.
"It likewise tends to increase the direct action of the physical conditions of life, in relation to the constitution of each organism."
This paragraph speaks for itself.
Robby
When Darwin speaks here of time I assume he is taking the LONG LONG view -- centuries, millennia, and even more.
Robby
"Hence an oceanic island at first sight seems to have been highly favourable for the production of new species.
"But we may thus deceive ourselves. To ascertain whether small isolated area, or a large open area like a continent has been most favourable for the production of new organic forms, we ought to make the comparison within equal times. This we are incapable of doing."
I don't see what he is getting at here. What about Australia?
Robby
"Throughout a great and open area, not only will there be a better chance of favourable variations, arising from the large number of individuals of the same species there supported -- but the conditions of life are much more complex from the large number of already existing species.
"If some of these many species become modified and improved, others will have to be improved in a corresponding degree, or they will be exterminated.
"Each new form, also, as soon as it has been much improved, will be able to spread over the open and continuous area, and will thus come into competition with many other forms.
"Moreover, great areas, though now continuous, will often, owing to former oscillations of level, have existed in a broken condition.
"The good effects of isolation will generally, to a certain extent, have concurred.
"Finally, I conclude that, although small isolated areas have been in some respects highly favourable for the production of new species, yet that the course of modification will generally have been more rapid on large areas. What is more important, that the new forms produced on large areas -- which already have been victorious over many competitors -- will be those that will spread most widely, and will give rise to the greatest number of new varieties and species.
"They will thus play a more important part in the changing history of the organic world."
As I understand it, a larger area is more conducive to producing species which can endure and spread. In a large and open area, Darwin says, there are a greater number of individuals of the same species and therefore a greater opportunity for individuals to vary. If some species become improved, he says, others had just better improve of they will not survive. Again, it's the story of survival through competition. Darwin concludes that organisms modify faster in large open areas and new varieties and species will come into existence.
Your comments, please?
Robby
I think that by "geographical area" Darwin means something as small as a garden and as large as a continent.
Robby
"For instance, the fact of the productions of the smaller continent of Australia now yielding before those of the larger Europaeo-Asiatic area.
"Thus, also, it is that continental productions have everywhere become so largely naturalised on islands.
"On a small island, the race for life will have been less severe, and there will have been less modification and less extermination. Hence, we can understand how it is that the flora of Madeira, according to Oswald Heer, resembles to a certain extent the extinct tertiary flora of Europe.
"All fresh-water basins, taken together, make a small area compared with that of the sea or of the land. Consequently, the competition between fresh-water productions will have been less severe than elsewhere. New forms will have been then more slowly produced, and old forms more slowly exterminated.
"And it is in fresh-water basins that we find seven genera of Ganoid fishes, remnants of a once preponderant order. In fresh water we find some of the most anomalous forms now known in the world as the Ornithorhynchus and Lepidosiren which, like fossils, connect to a certain extent orders at present widely sundered in the natural scale.
"These anomalous forms may be called living fossils. They have endured to the present day, from having inhabited a confined area, and from having been exposed to less varied, and therefore less severe, competition."
This paragraph seems to follow Darwin's constant referral to the "race for life." He points out that smaller geographical areas (Australia) give up in the race for life to larger geographical areas (Asia.) If the area is big (Asia) the race is severe. If the area is small (a small island) the race is more gentle and there is less modifying and less death. But nevertheless, the race continues. Darwin compares all the fresh water rivers, lakes, etc. in the world with the salt water oceans and the large land masses. The fresh water areas total up to be small in comparison. Therefore the struggle for life is less severe and modifications and deaths in fresh water areas are slower. We find there, he says, organisms which seem to have lived for eons.
Robby
Robby
"I conclude that for terrestrial productions a large continental area -- which has undergone many oscillations of level -- will have been the most favourable for the production of many new forms of life -- fitted to endure for a long time and to spread widely.
"Whilst the area existed as a continent, the inhabitants will have been numerous in individuals and kinds, and will have been subjected to severe competition.
"When converted by subsidence into large separate islands, there will still have existed many individuals of the same species on each island. Intercrossing on the confines of the range of each new species will have been checked. After physical changes of any kind, immigration will have been prevented, so that new places in the polity of each island will have had to be filled up by the modification of the old inhabitants.
"Time will have been allowed for the varieties in each to become well modified and perfected.
"When, by renewed elevation, the islands were reconverted into a continental area, there will again have been very severe competition. The most favoured or improved varieties will have been enabled to spread. There will have been much extinction of the less improved forms.
"The relative proportional numbers of the various inhabitants of the reunited continent will again have been changed. Again there will have been a fair field for natural selection to improve still further the inhabitants, and thus to produce new species."
If I get this, Darwin is bringing geology into the picture. He is saying that the shifts of the continents over the millennia have an effect on the organisms living in them. When there is a large continent, he says, the situation is wonderful for producing new forms of life -- that because the environment on this continent fairly stable, that these new forms of organisms spread widely and last for eons. They were interbreeding but at the same time, they were competing with each other for their very life. The continent may at some time been broken up into many small islands. Each island, of course, would have had the same organism as the other islands because they were all previously a part of the large continent. But now interbreeding which originally could have taken place on a large continent was now impossible with the areas of water between the islands. As Darwin put it, "immigration would have been prevented." Where new areas would have been in the past filled up with the "immigration" of new organisms, now modifications of those organims present filled up these areas. Again eons pass and these modifications become more "perfect." If, through some geolotical upheaval, these islands all became again the part of a larger land mass, then competition again took place and the newer modifications of each of the former islands fought for life against the modifications that had taken place on the other islands. Those modifications which had not been improved sufficiently, died. Due to the geological changes, the relative amount of organisms to others had also been changed. How does this sound, folks? Make sense?
Robby
Robby
"It can act only when there are places in the natural polity of a district which can be better occupied by the modification of some of its existing inhabitants. The occurrence of such places will often depend on physical changes -- which generally take place very slowly -- and on the immigration of better adapted forms being prevented.
"As some few of the old inhabitants become modified, the mutual relations of others will often be disturbed. This will create new places, ready to be filled up by better adapted forms, but all this will take place very slowly.
"Although the individuals of the same species differ in some slight degree from each other, it would often be long before differences of the right nature in various parts of the organisation might occur. The result would often be greatly retarded by free intercrossing.
"Many will exclaim that these several causes are amply sufficient to neutralise the power of natural selection. I do not believe so. But I do believe that natural selection will generally act very slowly -- only at long intervals of time, and only on a few of the inhabitants of the same region. I further believe that these slow, intermittent results accord well with what geology tells us of the rate and manner at which the inhabitants of the world have changed."
Darwin is quite clear here. He emphasizes the slowness of Natural Selection. And I guess we all realize that when he says "slow," he means SL-O-O-OW!!
Robby
In your link, Mal, David Barash says:
"We owe a great deal — indeed, literally everything — to evolution, and yet never have so many said and written so much about something they understood so poorly."
And that, very simply, is why I brought this discussion group into existence. And I am so thankful that many of you keep its lifeblood flowing.
Robby
Robby
This final paragraph in this section speaks for itself."
Robby
"Natural selection acts solely through the preservation of variations in some way advantageous, which consequently endure.
"Owing to the high geometrical rate of increase of all organic beings, each area is already fully stocked with inhabitants. It follows from this, that as the favoured forms increase in number, so, generally, will the less favoured decrease and become rare.
"Rarity, as geology tells us, is the precursor to extinction. We can see that any form which is represented by few individuals will run a good chance of utter extinction -- during great fluctuations in the nature of the seasons -- or from a temporary increase in the number of its enemies.
"But we may go further than this. As new forms are produced, unless we admit that specific forms can go on indefinitely increasing in number, many old forms must become extinct. That the number of specific forms has not indefinitely increased, geology plainly tells us. We shall presently attempt to show why it is that the number of species throughout the world has not become immeasurably great."
Again, as I follow this, Nature makes it a point to "select" changes which are beneficial to the organism. These "stronger" organisms, therefore, last longer and multiply, at the same time "forcing out" the weaker ones which become rare. Rarity, Darwin (or what he has learned from geology) tells us leads to death -- death, that is, of the species. This makes me think of the constant effort around the world to "save" those species (pandas? spotted owl? elephants?) which are rare. But what I am seeing here is sort of a battle between evolution and Man. Evolution wants to go on its merry way creating and destroying species and we have suddently come to believe that we are in charge.
Robby
Robby
Are we good?
Robby
"We have seen that the species which are most numerous in individuals have the best chance of producing favourable variations within any given period.
"We have evidence of this, in the facts stated in the second chapter showing that it is the common and diffused or dominant species which offer the greatest number of recorded varieties.
"Hence, rare species will be less quickly modified or improved within any given period; they will consequently be beaten in the race for life by the modified and improved descendants of the commoner species."
So the more individuals within a species, the greater the number of favorable variations. Where there are not that many varieties, they die. Right?
Robby
Any comments from anyone here on Post 350?
Robby
This may not strictly conform to the rules of probability.
The species which are the most numerous might have the highest probability of having any kind of variation, positive or negative or neutral.
As an example, variations might be neutral, with respect to survival, but might be observed by another (neutral) species.
For instance, a butterfly could have individuals with different wing patterns. A person, as a neutral observer, could draw or photograph this interesting variation. Other butterflies might ignore it.
The flip-side, of course, is other butterflies could (+) love it or they could (-) dislike the new pattern.
The (+) or the (-) variation might affect whether that individual butterfly finds a mate.
IMO, there is an equal probability of (+) or (-) or neutral.
Over time, the (-) ones would, of course, have a lower chance of survival.
What does everyone else think?
Robby: Sorry to be here so seldom ... slammed by volunteer work as well as Latin this past week!
"The forms which stand in closest competition with those undergoing modification and improvement will naturally suffer most.
"And we have seen in the chapter on the Struggle for Existence that it is the most closely-allied forms -- varieties of the same species, and species of the same genus or of related genera -- which, from having nearly the same structure, constitution, and habits, generally come into the severest competition with each other.
"Consequently, each new variety or species, during the progress of its formation, will generally press hardest on its nearest kindred -- and tend to exterminate them.
"We see the same process of extermination amongst our domesticated productions, through the selection of improved forms by man. Many curious instances could be given showing how quickly new breeds of cattle, sheep, and other animals, and varieties of flowers, take the place of older and inferior kinds.
"In Yorkshire, it is historically known that the ancient black cattle were displaced by the long-horns, and that these "were swept away by the shorthorns" (I quote the words of an agricultural writer) "as if by some murderous pestilence."
Darwin is now telling us, I believe, that the creation of new species force the older species into becoming more rare or even becoming extinct. And such extinction, he says, happens to those species which find themselves close in structure and habits to the stronger ones which are improving. The most severe competition (struggle for life) takes place between species which are closest to each other. As I read this, I ask myself, are humans struggling the most against other humans in this world or is our struggle primarily against birds or lizards. Many of us of the human species appear to be doing our best to exterminate other humans.
Robby
Robby
I know that Darwin is speaking about plants and animals but we are ever ever so gradually moving in our thoughts toward the "higher animal," aren't we?
Robby
"In the first place, varieties, even strongly-marked ones, though having somewhat of the character of species -- as is shown by the hopeless doubts in many cases how to rank them -- yet certainly differ far less from each other than do good and distinct species.
"Nevertheless, according to my view, varieties are species in the process of formation -- or are, as I have called them, incipient species.
"How, then, does the lesser difference between varieties become augmented into the greater difference between species? That this does habitually happen, we must infer from most of the innumerable species throughout nature presenting well-marked differences.
"Whereas varieties, the supposed prototypes and parents of future well-marked species, present slight and ill-defined differences. Mere chance, as we may call it, might cause one variety to differ in some character from its parents -- and the offspring of this variety again to differ from its parent in the very same character and in a greater degree.
"But this alone would never account for so habitual and large a degree of difference as that between the species of the same genus."
This entire paragraph is a question, so to speak. Darwin wonders and starts off by pointing out that varieties differ less from each other than species differ from each other. At the same time he emphasizes that varieties are "species" in the process of being formed (incipient species). Now comes his question. How is it that the minor differences between varieties develop into the major differences between species? He observes that this regularly happens. All through nature he sees distinct differences between species. At the same time he observes different varieties and the differences between them are not that marked. It could just be chance, he says. A "child" could by chance have a different characteristic from its "parent" and this child could have its own child with the same difference only more so. Darwin is not satisfied with this answer. He sees large differences between species.
Robby
Darwin would not have discussed human extinction!
What is that expression? all holds barred? whatever?
If you bring up human competition, it tempts me to bring up DNA analysis!
But I won't.
If the temptation is there and if the comments about humans seem to fit into the current paragraph we are reading, let us choose our words carefully.
Robby
Robby
"We shall here find something analogous. It will be admitted that the production of races so different as short-horn and Hereford cattle -- race and cart horses -- the several breeds of pigeons, &c. -- could never have been effected by the mere chance accumulation of similar variations during many successive generations.
"In practice, a fancier is, for instance, struck by a pigeon having a slightly shorter beak. Another fancier is struck by a pigeon having a rather longer beak.
"On the acknowledged principle that "fanciers do not and will not admire a medium standard, but like extremes," they both go on (as has actually occurred with the sub-breeds of the tumbler-pigeon) choosing and breeding from birds with longer and longer beaks, or with shorter and shorter beaks.
"Again, we may suppose that at an early period of history, the men of one nation or district required swifter horses, whilst those of another required stronger and bulkier horses. The early differences would be very slight. But, in the course of time from the continued selection of swifter horses in the one case, and of stronger ones in the other, the differences would become greater, and would be noted as forming two sub-breeds.
"Ultimately, after the lapse of centuries, these sub-breeds would become converted into two well-established and distinct breeds. As the differences became greater, the inferior animals with intermediate characters, being neither swift nor very strong, would not have been used for, breeding, and will thus have tended to disappear.
"Here, then, we see in man's productions the action of what may be called the principle of divergence, causing differences, at first barely appreciable, steadily to increase, and the breeds to diverge in character, both from each other and from their common parent."
In trying to understand what Nature does in relation to Divergence, Darwin goes back to examining what plant and animal breeders do. All of us here remember how he made it a point, not only to talk with pigeon fanciers, but to breed pigeons himself. He found that pigeon breeders, for example, liked to breed extreme traits so as to separate them from other pigeons. These breeders knew what they were doing. Centuries ago, Darwin says, breeders were doing this with horses, choosing either the swifter horses or the stronger horses, depending on the needs of the different tribes. The descendents of these horses were also bred for speed or strength and over a period time became "sub-breeds." Ultimately, after centuries -- or even millennia -- distinct breeds arose. Those horses which were not particularly swift or strong were not used for breeding and ultimately died out. Darwin defines what happened over this period of time as the Principle of Divergence. The various horses ultimately not only ended up differing from each other but from their common parent.
Robby
"I believe it can and does apply most efficiently (though it was a long time before I saw how) -- from the simple circumstance that the more diversified the descendants from any one species become in structure, constitution, and habits -- by so much will they be better enabled to seize on many and widely diversified places in the polity of nature, and so be enabled to increase in numbers."
The more diversified species become, the more they are able to use different kinds of environment -- and thereby increase their numbers. Right?
Robby
"Take the case of a carnivorous quadruped, of which the number that can be supported in any country has long ago arrived at its full average. If its natural power of increase be allowed to act, it can succeed in increasing -- the country not undergoing any change in conditions -- only by its varying descendants seizing on places at present occupied by other animals -- some of them, for instance, being enabled to feed on new kinds of prey, either dead or alive; some inhabiting new stations, climbing trees, frequenting water, and some perhaps becoming less carnivorous.
"The more diversified in habits and structure the descendants of our carnivorous animals become, the more places they will be enabled to occupy.
"What applies to one animal will apply throughout all time to all animals- that is, if they vary- for otherwise natural selection can effect nothing.
"So it will be with plants. It has been experimentally proved, that if a plot of ground be sown with one species of grass, and a similar plot be sown with several distinct genera of grasses, a greater number of plants and a greater weight of dry herbage can be raised in the latter than in the former case. The same has been found to hold good when one variety and several mixed varieties of wheat have been sown on equal spaces of ground.
"Hence, if any one species of grass were to go on varying, and the varieties were continually selected which differed from each other in the same manner -- though in a very slight degree, as do the distinct species and genera of grasses -- a greater number of individual plants of this species, including its modified descendants, would succeed in living on the same piece of ground.
"And we know that each species and each variety of grass is annually sowing almost countless seeds; and is thus striving, as it may be said, to the utmost to increase in number.
"Consequently, in the course of many thousand generations, the most distinct varieties of any one species of grass would have the best chance of succeeding and of increasing in numbers -- thus of supplanting the less distinct varieties.
"Varieties, when rendered very distinct from each other, take the rank of species."
Let me see if I have this correct. If a territory is highly populated with a particular organism this organism can increase only if it intrudes upon other areas with its own organisms. The descendents of this "intruder" may have to change its habits, e.g. learning to climb trees, eat different kinds of food, etc. And the more these descendants learn to change their habits, the greater territory they will be able to inhabit. Darwin says this is true for both plants and animals. He goes on to say that these descendants which continue to change, and therefore thrive, gradually develop into different varieties and that these varieties ultimately become specific species. Any comments, folks?
Robby
"In an extremely small area, especially if freely open to immigration -- and where the contest between individual and individual must be very severe -- we always find great diversity in its inhabitants.
"For instance, I found that a piece of turf, three feet by four in size, which had been exposed for many years to exactly the same conditions, supported twenty species of plants. These belonged to eighteen genera and to eight orders, which shows how much these plants differed from each other.
"So it is with the plants and insects on small and uniform islets -- also in small ponds of fresh water.
"Farmers find that they can raise most food by a rotation of plants belonging to the most different orders. Nature follows what may be called a simultaneous rotation. Most of the animals and plants which live close round any small piece of ground, could live on it -- supposing its nature not to be in any way peculiar) -- and may be said to be striving to the utmost to live there. But, it is seen, that where they come into the closest competition, the advantages of diversification of structure, with the accompanying differences of habit and constitution, determine that the inhabitants, which thus jostle each other most closely, shall, as a general rule, belong to what we call different genera and orders."
If I catch this correctly, where different varieties of organisms are pressed up against each other -- small ponds or small lots for example -- and where the struggle for life is therefore great, the inhabitants tend to diversity. In other words, they became different from each other. Darwin speaks of a rotation of plants which leads to greater harvest. The common term "rotation of crops" refers, I believe, to farmers planting corn one year and then peas on the same land the following year. He says that Nature does the same thing but I can't understand what he means by this.
Robby
Robby
"It might have been expected that the plants which would succeed in becoming naturalised in any land would generally have been closely allied to the indigenes. These are commonly looked at as specially created and adapted for their own country.
"It might also, perhaps, have been expected that naturalised plants would have belonged to a few groups more especially adapted to certain stations in their new homes.
"But the case is very different.
"Alph. de Candolle has well remarked, in his great and admirable work, that floras gain by naturalisation -- proportionally with the number of the native genera and species -- far more in new genera than in new species.
"To give a single instance. In the last edition of Dr. Asa Gray's Manual of the Flora of the Northern United States, 260 naturalized plants are enumerated, and these belong to 162 genera.
"We thus see that these naturalised plants are of a highly diversified nature. They differ, moreover, to a large extent, from the indigenes, for out of the 162 naturalised genera, no less than 100 genera are not there indigenous.
"Thus a large proportional addition is made to the genera now living in the United States."
Comments?
Robby
"Charles' grandfather, Erasmus, a successful and wealthy physician in the 18th century, wrote the book, Zoonomia (Laws of Life), which portrays a pantheistic world in which all life and species evolved. Erasmus' close friend, industrialist Josiah Wedgwood I, embraced Unitarian theology. Erasmus' son and Charles' father, Robert Darwin, also a wealthy physician, probably an atheist, married Susannah Wedgwood. Other marriage ties between the two families followed. Not surprisingly, Darwin males generally were freethinkers, following the Unitarian, pantheistic and atheistic views of their principal sires."
Few of us seem to find anything to post, either, as perhaps we don't want to question Darwin's theories.
Also, I find nothing to say about naturalization of plants; I'm not exactly lurking, I'm just waiting to go on.
If you'll forgive my talking like a psychologist, I believe firmly that every single word said in this discussion -- both from Darwin and from our own comments -- sinks into our brains even if we don't understand them at the moment.
I believe that as we approach the end of the book, all these thoughts will come together in a pattern in our minds and Darwin's conclusions will make sense
and we'll say
Robby
Robby
"We may at least infer that diversification of structure, amounting to new generic differences, would be profitable to them.
"The advantage of diversification of structure in the inhabitants of the same region is, in fact, the same as that of the physiological division of labour in the organs of the same individual body- a subject so well elucidated by Milne Edwards.
"No physiologist doubts that a stomach adapted to digest vegetable matter alone, or flesh alone, draws most nutriment from these substances.
"So in the general economy of any land, the more widely and perfectly the animals and plants are diversified for different habits of life, so will a greater number of individuals be capable of there supporting themselves.
"A set of animals, with their organisation but little diversified, could hardly compete with a set more perfectly diversified in structure.
"It may be doubted, for instance, whether the Australian marsupials, which are divided into groups differing but little from each other -- and feebly representing, as Mr. Waterhouse and others have remarked, our carnivorous, ruminant, and rodent mammals -- could successfully compete with these well-developed orders. In the Australian mammals, we see the process of diversification in an early and incomplete stage of development."
The word which comes to my mind in this paragraph is "compromise." I draw an analogy of two people marrying but each person having his/her own individual characteristics. In order for the marriage to be fairly happy, each person needs to change a bit. Consider an Englishman in the 16th/17th century who marries a Native American woman. In marrying the Indigene, the Englishman becomes "naturalized" -- changes -- diversifies. The "Indian" woman modifies -- changes, difersifies -- her characteristics. Darwin draws upon physiology to create an analogy. A long-time vegetarian draws the most nutrient from vegetables. He/she is adapted to that. But if he decides to add meat to his diet, his stomach modifies to the point where he can also draw nourishment from meat. If I may generalize, people who are overly rigid, who refuse to change their habits in any fashion, find it difficult to support themselves in society. Diversifying ones attitude and behavior leads to easier survival. So it is, Darwin says, with plants and animals. Are my analogies way off base, folks? What do you think?
Robby
MALLYLEE said, "Darwin assumes that an ecosystem ( anachronistic word I know) contains species that co-operate like the organs in an individual's body co-operate to the mutual advantage of the whole."
An on-line dictionary gives:
1. A weed is a plant considered undesirable, unattractive, or troublesome,
especially one growing where it is not wanted, as in a garden.
2. Rank growth of such plants.
I'd suggest that weeds are not particularly more diverse, but are more hardy, more tenacious, as well as more annoying. They may be more fit to survive than whatever plant a gardener chooses to cultivate.
Robby
Well, hey, this little piece I wrote was prompted by Darwin's Origin of Species. It's a holiday weekend, so I'm taking the liberty of posting it here. It's not long. Don't get scared.
WADING TALES from McMICHAELS CREEK
There was a rumor going around that the sparkles came from slivers of a star the wind pushed down on a midsummer night. How they got in the joyful little pond at the end of McMichaels Creek had been thoroughly discussed, but nobody came up with an answer. I really don’t think anybody wanted to. It was a magical mystery that shouldn’t be touched with the glittery wand of education or a ten foot pole.
Winter after winter, summer after summer, fall after fall, McMichaels Creek struggled toward spring, the favorite time of all. By the time all the ice creaked away and the pure white water dazzled its way among the rocks down the mountain to the rippling looking glass, every living creature was ready to think about starting a family and settling down.
If settling down meant building a nest or shelter of some kind and working from dawn to nightfall finding food to satisfy a demanding and hungry family, so the species would continue, nobody thought about that. It was just what they did, the way they lived, and nobody complained.
There was sickness, of course, from time to time. Some up and died; others lived. It is survival of the fittest at McMichaels Creek, and that is proven out every day.
The denizens of the stream and its banks didn’t think about that, either. They lived their lives doing what they’d been put there to do. Through sun and rain, snow and sleet, unbearable heat, way below freezing cold, they uncomplainingly did what they’d always done, and the stream flowed away year after year, generation after generation. That was what life was all about, and McMichaels Creek was life’s greatest and best representation. The golden forsythia rambling up and down the hills winked down at the water as if to say, “You do a good job, just like the rest of us do.”
When a terrible drought ended, the springs that fed McMichaels sent the water rushing down the stream, and animals and birds became rejuvenated by the heaven-sent water. If the stream overflowed its banks and mighty floods came, after it was over the survivors went about their business and started all over again.
This was life on McMichaels Creek. It is life, demanding, monotonous, repetitious, same thing over and over, not questioning why or asking how, just living day by day, as McMichaels Creek is witness to the pattern of life and death and rejuvenation and life again with every year that passed by.
The days are golden. The days are black. They are there to be used wisely and enjoyed in all of their easy, difficult, painful, pain-free, tearful, smiling, joyous varieties.
Marilyn Freeman
All rights reserved
© 2006
Here's More Wading Tales from McMichaels Creek
Thaddeus was old and gnarled and crookedy from the day he was born. As a child he spent his time at the bend in the creek. You know, the one halfway up the mountain where the sun shines through the trees and the creek curves around the stand of white birches that's been there forever, it seems. Taddy looked for creatures in need that he could help, and along the way he picked up as many feathers as the bag slung over his shoulders could hold.
Among the hale and hardy fellows he met there was Paddledy Wrigglewhyte, the oldest trout in the stream. Those less strong than Paddledy received much of Tad’s attention. One, Frog Franklin, was always cold. The solution to Frog’s problem was hard to find until one cloudy day in November Taddy’s thinking cleared and he covered his friend’s shivering frame with feathers.
“Nice and warm?” he asked.
“Sure am,” Franklin replied. “You’re a pal, Thaddeus, a friend in need doing good deeds.”
Taddy thought about it when he went home to the cottage he lived in that overlooked the creek. Nothing he did was special, as far as he could see. Doing good deeds seemed natural to him. He pulled up the featherbed he had made from an old canvas sack and some of the feathers he stored, rolled over, snored once and was fast asleep.
It was the day he saved the blind water rat from tumbling down the rapids that was the unusual one. He discovered that Ratty wasn’t really blind. His poor eyes were inflamed and infected, that’s all.
In his usual way, he bathed Ratty’s eyes with fresh water from the creek, and then made a poultice of feathers, feverfew and mint which he applied to the troubled area. The day after, Ratty was better, and seemed to be back on the road to good health. When he approached Taddy creekside as he splinted a squirrel’s broken leg with branches lined with soft feathers, he said, “Thanks a lot, Buddy. I never thought I’d see your face again.”
“It was nothin’,” said Taddy, walking away to find another fellow in need.
It was windy that night with a strange light in the sky somehow. Taddy made sure all of his windows were bolted, that the door was tightly latched, and that his feather collection was well-wrapped and tied down. Then he lay on his bed and fell into a fitful sleep.
It must have been around two when thunder shook the rooftop and a flash of light briefly filled the room. “Thaddeus,” a voice said, “this is God here to tell you I made you a saint.”
“Wh-wh-what?” said Taddy, convinced he was dreaming or starting to hallucinate. Must be the stew he ate for supper upset him somehow.
“Saint McMichaels,” God continued. “That’s your name from now on. You’ll be the Patron Saint of Feathers the rest of your mortal life.”
“Patron Saint of Feathers?” Taddy said, fully awake now. Maybe it wasn’t a dream, after all. “Where are you? Let me see your face, so I know you’re not pulling my leg.”
“Oh, no,” God’s voice said. “Nobody sees this face. You’ll just have to take my word for it, son.”
Taddy sat bolt upright and searched the shadows for a glimpse of God. In the process he realized the hump at the bottom of his neck didn’t hurt so much, and the constant little headache that had hovered behind his eyes, for most of his life, was gone.
“Hmm,” he murmured.
“What did you say, Taddy? Speak up so this spirit can hear what you say.”
“I’m just wondering what my duties as Patron Saint of Feathers could be."
“Same as always,” God replied. “Keep your nose to the grindstone, pick up feathers, help the poor and the halt and those in need, and you’ll be fine.”
“That’s it?” Taddy asked, astonished.
“Don’t take much to be a saint,” God answered.
In the crack of a second Thaddeus realized God was gone. Surely he’d been dreaming. Who in the world would ever make him the Patron Saint of Feathers?
He turned on the lamp beside his bed and looked around. Nothing had changed, not a single thing. Wait. What was that over by the door?
He got out of bed, stooped over and picked up the most glorious feather he’d ever seen. It was every color of the rainbow and tipped with gold. Taddy stood there a second; then he heard a soft laugh.
Marilyn Freeman
All rights reserved
© 2006
Robby
"Now let us see how this principle of benefit being derived from divergence of character, combined with the principles of natural selection and of extinction, tends to act."
Robby
Robby
"Let A to L represent the species of a genus large in its own country.
"These species are supposed to resemble each other in unequal degrees -- as is so generally the case in nature -- and as is represented in the diagram by the letters standing at unequal distances.
"I have said a large genus -- because as we saw in the second chapter -- on an average more species vary in large genera than in small genera. The varying species of the large genera present a greater number of varieties.
"We have, also, seen that the species -- which are the commonest and the most widely diffused -- vary more than do the rare and restricted species.
"Let (A) be a common, widely-diffused, and varying species, belonging to a genus large in its own country. The branching and diverging lines of unequal lengths proceeding from (A), may represent its varying offspring.
"The variations are supposed to be extremely slight, but of the most diversified nature. They are not supposed all to appear simultaneously, but often after long intervals of time -- nor are they an supposed to endure for equal periods.
"Only those variations which are in some way profitable will be preserved or naturally selected.
"Here the importance of the principle of benefit derived from divergence of character comes in. This will generally lead to the most different or divergent variations -- represented by the outer lines -- being preserved and accumulated by natural selection.
"When a line reaches one of the horizontal lines, and is there marked by a small numbered letter, a sufficient amount of variation is supposed to have been accumulated to form it into a fairly well-marked variety, such as would be thought worthy of record in a systematic work."
Let us not overcomplicate this. In this new section Darwin is emphasizing the importance of Divergence and its effect on the descendents of the various organisms. At the bottom of the diagram are letters representing species. Letters "G" and "H" are very close together so these two species appear almost alike. Letters "C" and "D" are apart so these two species have similarities but not too many. Let us follow Species "A." This species varies in many ways and is found all over the place. We can see from the lines running upward from "A" that as each generation has descendents, they spread out widely, although the differences from generation to generation may not be too great. As we follow up the lines, decades, centuries may be passing. Changes are slow. As we look upward from the letter "A", we see a V-shape design. But as we look at each generation from horizontal line to horizontal line and examine the little boxes, we see the same V-shape emanating from each box. This is the diversification to which Darwin refers (I believe). If the gradual changes occurring in the organisms benefitted them, the changes would continue and move on to the descendants. If there was no benefit, the organism would die. The lines of uneven length show those organisms which died or lived for varying lengths of time. Every now and then the line moving upward reaches a horizontal line. That is Darwin's way of saying that the organism is so structured that naturalists now label it a variety or species. What do you think, people?
Robby
"After a thousand generations, species (A) is supposed to have produced two fairly well-marked varieties, namely a1 and m1.
"These two varieties will generally still be exposed to the same conditions which made their parents variable, and the tendency to variability is in itself hereditary. Consequently they will likewise tend to vary, and commonly in nearly the same manner as did their parents.
"Moreover, these two varieties, being only slightly modified forms, will tend to inherit those advantages which made their parent (A) more numerous than most of the other inhabitants of the same country.
"They will also partake of those more general advantages which made the genus to which the parent-species belonged, a large genus in its own country.
"And all these circumstances are favourable to the production of new varieties."
Once again Darwin reminds us that these changes take place SL0-O-O-WLY. In his diagram just one interval between two horizontal lines represents perhaps a thousand generations. If we are talking about let's say that perennial plant in your garden, then we may be talking about a thousand years. And that's only one horizontal line. Now count the number of horizontal lines and we may begin to get the idea. Now let's put our finger on letter (species) "A" and follow it up just one horizontal line. After perhaps a thousand generations it has produced a1 and m1 which he calls two fairly well-marked varieties. Assuming that these two varieties are living in the same type of environment as their ancestor a thousand generations before, and following their tendency to vary which they inherited, they also will vary. Because they were only "slightly modified" having passed through only a thousand generations, they have inherited the same strong survival tendencies that their ancestor had and will continue to propagate. Now new varieties will come into existence as shown in the V-design which emanates upward from a1 and m1 -- getting ready to go another thousand generations. All in agreement here?
Robby
"And after this interval, variety a1 is supposed in the diagram to have produced variety a2, which will, owing to the principle of divergence, differ more from (A) than did variety a1.
"Variety m1 is supposed to have produced two varieties, namely m2 and s2, differing from each other, and more considerably from their common parent (A).
"We may continue the process by similar steps for any length of time -- some of the varieties, after each thousand generations, producing only a single variety, but in a more and more modified condition -- some producing two or three varieties -- and some failing to produce any. Thus the varieties or modified descendants of the common parent (A), will generally go on increasing in number and diverging in character.
"In the diagram the process is represented up to the ten-thousandth generation, and under a condensed and simplified form up to the fourteen-thousandth generation."
Based on the theory of Divergence, Species "A" leads to variety "a1" which is a bit different, then to variety "a2" which is even more different, and so on. Some of these varieties may reproduce to form the same variety but in a more modified condition. Other varieties may become different varieties and other varieties may die. In other words, as I understand it, as generation follows generation the numbers of the organisms increase but also simultaneously change in character.
Robby
Robby
"And after this interval, variety a1 is supposed in the diagram to have produced variety a2, which will, owing to the principle of divergence, differ more from (A) than did variety a1.
"Variety m1 is supposed to have produced two varieties, namely m2 and s2, differing from each other, and more considerably from their common parent (A).
"We may continue the process by similar steps for any length of time -- some of the varieties, after each thousand generations, producing only a single variety, but in a more and more modified condition -- some producing two or three varieties, and some failing to produce any.
"Thus the varieties or modified descendants of the common parent (A), will generally go on increasing in number and diverging in character. In the diagram the process is represented up to the ten-thousandth generation, and under a condensed and simplified form up to the fourteen-thousandth generation."
Very simply, I believe Darwin is emphasizing here that organisms don't go on generation after generation producing offspring exactly like themselves. Instead Divergence is the name of the game. And divergence in differing ways -- i.e. the same variety with modifications -- or actually different varieties -- or even past that to varieties which get to a point where naturalists call them different species. "Change" on and on and on and on for generation after generation after generation. In the process, however, organisms without productive change can die.
Robby
"It is far more probable that each form remains for long periods unaltered, and then again undergoes modification.
"Nor do I suppose that the most divergent varieties are invariably preserved. A medium form may often long endure, and may or may not produce more than one modified descendant.
"For natural selection will always act according to the nature of the places which are either unoccupied or not perfectly occupied by other beings. This will depend on infinitely complex relations.
"But as a general rule, the more diversified in structure the descendants from any one species can be rendered, the more places they will be enabled to seize on -- and the more their modified progeny will increase.
"In our diagram the line of succession is broken at regular intervals by small numbered letters marking the successive forms which have become sufficiently distinct to be recorded as varieties. These breaks are imaginary, and might have been inserted anywhere, after intervals long enough to allow the accumulation of a considerable amount of divergent variation."
The diagram, Darwin tells us, is merely to help us to understand the process of Divergence of Character. Life, he emphasizes, is not as simple as the diagram would imply. Generations may go by without any change occurring in the organism's descendants. And just because a modification may help the organism at times, at other times it could also lead to extinction. The environment, as he told us earlier, may make a difference. Is there an area where the modified organism can thrive? Are there other organisms also fighting for their own life which prevent this organism from thriving or even living? Life is tenuous and not as certain as the diagram might imply. Your comments please?
Robby
Sorry to have so few comments, but exam week in Latin is taking all my energy. I'll get a "note" from Ginny.
"This is represented in the diagram by the several divergent branches proceeding from (A).
"The modified offspring from the later and more highly improved branches in the lines of descent, will, it is probable, often take the place of, and so destroy, the earlier and less improved branches.
"This is represented in the diagram by some of the lower branches not reaching to the upper horizontal lines.
"In some cases no doubt the process of modification will be confined to a single line of descent. The number of modified descendants will not be increased although the amount of divergent modification may have been augmented.
"This case would be represented in the diagram, if all the lines proceeding from (A) were removed, excepting that from a1 to a10.
"In the same way the English race-horse and English pointer have apparently both gone on slowly diverging in character from their original stocks, without either having given off any fresh branches or races."
I see this paragraph as merely emphasizing what was said in previous paragraphs. Because the descendents grow in the same environment and have other advantages that their ancestors had, they will thrive and reproduce. He does point out that those descendents which are modified and are stronger thereby often replace (in other words destroy) other descendents which did not receive the beneficial modifications. Cousins replacing cousins? Some organisms don't diverge but merely modify certain characteristics, e.g. English race horse and English pointer. What are your thoughts, people?
Robby
"If we suppose the amount of change between each horizontal line in our diagram to be excessively small, these three forms may still be only well-marked varieties.
"But we have only to suppose the steps in the process of modification to be more numerous or greater in amount, to convert these three forms into well-defined or at least into doubtful species.
"Thus the diagram illustrates the steps by which the small differences distinguishing varieties are increased into the larger differences distinguishing species.
"By continuing the same process for a greater number of generations --as shown in the diagram in a condensed and simplified manner -- we get eight species, marked by the letters between a14 and m14, all descended from (A).
"Thus, as I believe, species are multiplied and genera are formed."
Let us not worry about the diagram at this point. In Darwin's opinion, the difference between a variety and a species is purely subjective. It is what naturalists say it is. Small differences distinguish varieties. Larger differences distinguish species (either well-defined or doubtful.) And again he emphasizes that these differences occurred after thousands and thousands and thousands of generations. At that point one ancient species could have modified into any number of newer species, all differing in various ways. I'll bet that his thinking in this direction must have driven the people of that era nuts!
Robby
Robby
"In the diagram I have assumed that a second species (I) has produced, by analogous steps, after ten thousand generations, either two well-marked varieties (w10 and z10) or two species -- according to the amount of change supposed to be represented between the horizontal lines.
"After fourteen thousand generations, six new species, marked by the letters n14 to z14, are supposed to have. been produced.
"In any genus, the species which are already very different in character from each other, will generally tend to produce the greatest number of modified descendants.
"These will have the best chance of seizing on new and widely different places in the polity of nature. Hence in the diagram I have chosen the extreme species (A) -- and the nearly extreme species (I) -- as those which have largely varied, and have given rise to new varieties and species.
"The other nine species (marked by capital letters) of our original genus, may for long but unequal periods continue to transmit unaltered descendants. This is shown in the diagram by the dotted lines unequally prolonged upwards."
Let us not spend much time here. We are not trying to be scientists so we don't have to follow Darwin's diagram in order to get his drift. He is estimating (give an eon or two) that after 14,000 generations, one species would have modified into six species.
Robby
Robby
So let us continue.
Robby
"As in each fully stocked country natural selection necessarily acts by the selected form having some advantage in the struggle for life over other forms, there will be a constant tendency in the improved descendants of any one species to supplant and exterminate in each stage of descent their predecessors and their original progenitor.
"For it should be remembered that the competition will generally be most severe between those forms which are most nearly related to each other in habits, constitution, and structure.
"Hence all the intermediate forms between the earlier and later states -- that is between the less and more improved states of the same species, as well as the original parent-species itself -- will generally tend to become extinct.
"So it probably will be with many whole collateral lines of descent, which will be conquered by later and improved lines.
"If, however, the modified offspring of a species get into some distinct country, or become quickly adapted to some quite new station -- in which offspring and progenitor do not come into competition -- both may continue to exist."
Darwin reminds us that the form of change that continues down through the descendants usually has some advantage to the organsim as it struggles for life or it wouldn't live. That makes sense, doesn't it? So therefore the "stronger" descendants (whatever stronger means) take the place of the weaker ones. In this sense, the weaker ones die. The stronger ones reproduce but the weaker ones do not because they are dead. Darwin says that the greatest competition exists between organisms that are "nearly related to each other in habits, constitution, and structure." That makes sense too, doesn't it? One deer competes with another for the leaves. One bird competes with another for the insects. The deer doesn't give a hoot about the insects or the bird for the leaves. If I understand Darwin correctly, if the descendants of a particular bird began to prefer only ants and another descendant began to prefer only worms, they would not compete with each other, would gradually become two different varieties, and would survive and reproduce.
Robby
Robby
"These two species (A) and (I) were also supposed to be very common and widely diffused species, so that they must originally have had some advantage over most of the other species of the genus.
"Their modified descendants -- fourteen in number at the fourteen-thousandth generation -- will probably have inherited some of the same advantages. They have also been modified and improved in a diversified manner at each stage of descent, so as to have become adapted to many related places in the natural economy of their country.
"It seems, therefore, extremely probable that they will have taken the places of -- and thus exterminated -- not only their parents (A) and (I), but likewise some of the original species which were most nearly related to their parents.
"Hence very few of the original species will have transmitted offspring to the fourteen-thousandth generation.
"We may suppose that only one, (F), of the two species (E and F) which were least closely related to the other nine original species, has transmitted descendants to this late stage of descent."
If I may over-simplify -- over thousands of generations, these descendants would have modified and modified and modified to the extent where they are now comfortable in a new environment. They will obviously have take the place of their ancestors and in a sense we may say they "killed" them. New species now exist. Old species will have died. Yes?
Robby
"Owing to the divergent tendency of natural selection, the extreme amount of difference in character between species a14 and z14 will be much greater than that between the most distinct of the original eleven species.
"The new species, moreover, will be allied to each other in a widely different manner. Of the eight descendants from (A) the three marked a14, q14, p14, will be nearly related from having recently branched off from a10; b14, and f14 -- from having diverged at an earlier period from a1, will be in some degree distinct from the three first-named species -- and lastly, o14, e14, and m14, will be nearly related one to the other -- but, from having diverged at the first commencement of the process of modification, will be widely different from the other five species, and may constitute a sub-genus or a distinct genus."
Without bothering to look at the chart -- if any of us are -- we follow Darwin's logic that new species come from old species. That the longer the elapse of time, the greater the difference. Comments, anyone?
Robby
Robby
"But as the original species (I) differed largely from (A), standing nearly at the extreme end of the original genus, the six descendants from (I) will -- owing to inheritance alone -- differ considerably from the eight descendants from (A).
"The two groups, moreover, are supposed to have gone on diverging in different directions. The intermediate species, also -- and this is a very important consideration -- which connected the original species (A) and (I), have all become, excepting (F), extinct, and have left no descendants.
"Hence the six new species descended from (I), and the eight descendants from (A), will have to be ranked as very distinct genera, or even as distinct sub-families.
"Thus it is, as I believe, that two or more genera are produced -- by descent with modification -- from two or more species of the same genus.
"And the two or more parent-species are supposed to be descended from some one species of an earlier genus.
"In our diagram, this is indicated by the broken lines, beneath the capital letters, converging in sub-branches downwards towards a single point. This point represents a species, the supposed progenitor of our several new sub-genera and genera."
These comments re-inforce what Darwin has been teaching us. We're all experts now, right?
Robby
"In this case, its affinities to the other fourteen new species will be of a curious and circuitous nature.
"Being descended from a form which stood between the parent-species (A) and (I) -- now supposed to be extinct and unknown -- it will be in some degree intermediate in character between the two groups descended from these two species.
"But as these two groups have gone on diverging in character from the type of their parents, the new species (F14) will not be directly intermediate between them, but rather between types of the two groups. Every naturalist will be able to call such cases before his mind.
In the diagram, each horizontal line has hitherto been supposed to represent a thousand generations, but each may represent a million or more generations. It may also represent a section of the successive strata of the earth's crust including extinct remains.
"We shall, when we come to our chapter on Geology, have to refer again to this subject. I think we shall then see that the diagram throws light on the affinities of extinct beings, which -- though generally belonging to the same orders, families, or genera, with those now living -- yet are often, in some degree, intermediate in character between existing groups.
"We can understand this fact, for the extinct species lived at various remote epochs when the branching lines of descent had diverged less."
As I see it, Divergence takes place in all sorts of directions. Divergence from the ancient parent, divergence from the intermediate varieties, and divergence both from existing organisms and divergence from organisms that are extinct and not known to us. Darwin again emphasizes that he talking about long (eons) periods of time -- millions and millions of generations. And looking back that far, he calls to our attention that the earth's crust may not have been the same then as it is now. This would have made a difference to the organisms existing at that time. He titillates our interest by saying that he will soon speak more about Geology.
Robby
Robby
"If, in the diagram, we suppose the amount of change -- represented by each successive group of diverging lines to be great -- the forms marked a14 to p14, those marked b14 and f14, and those marked o14 to m14, will form three very distinct genera.
"We shall also have two very distinct genera descended from (I), differing widely from the descendants of (A). These two groups of genera will thus form two distinct families, or orders, according to the amount of divergent modification supposed to be represented in the diagram.
"The two new families, or orders, are descended from two species of the original genus, and these are supposed to be descended from some still more ancient and unknown form."
Darwin now widens the area which he believes is affected by modifications. He says that not only are new species formed, but also new genera and new families.
Robby
Robby
Robby
"This, indeed, might have been expected. As natural selection acts through one form having some advantage over other forms in the struggle for existence, it will chiefly act on those which already have some advantage.
"The largeness of any group shows that its species have inherited from a common ancestor some advantage in common. Hence, the struggle for the production of new and modified descendants will mainly lie between the larger groups which are all trying to increase in number.
"One large group will slowly conquer another large group, reduce its numbers, and thus lessen its chance of further variation and improvement. Within the same large group, the later and more highly perfected sub-groups -- from branching out and seizing on many new places in the polity of Nature -- will constantly tend to supplant and destroy the earlier and less improved sub-groups.
"Small and broken groups and sub-groups will finally disappear.
"Looking to the future, we can predict that the groups of organic beings which are now large and triumphant, and which are least broken up -- that is, which have as yet suffered least extinction -- will, for a long period, continue to increase.
"Which groups will ultimately prevail, no man can predict. We know that many groups, formerly most extensively developed, have now become extinct.
"Looking still more remotely to the future, we may predict that -- owing to the continued and steady increase of the larger groups -- a multitude of smaller groups will become utterly extinct, and leave no modified descendants. Of the species living at any one period, extremely few will transmit descendants to a remote futurity.
"I shall have to return to this subject in the chapter on Classification.
"I may add that as, according to this view, extremely few of the more ancient species have transmitted descendants to the present day, and -- as all the descendants of the same species form a class -- we can understand how it is that there exist so few classes in each main division of the animal and vegetable kingdoms.
"Although few of the most ancient species have left modified descendants yet -- at remote geological periods -- the earth may have been almost as well peopled with species of many genera, families, orders, and classes, as at the present time."
OK. Let's examine this. The species that belong to the largest genera (see Taxonomy Table in previous posting), have more varieties or about-to-become species. Those species which have the greatest advantages obviously produce more offspring. It's the old story -- the "haves" and the "have-nots." The "haves" get more. The "have-nots" lose what they have. If a group has more organisms than another group, that would indicate that it carries the various advantages and passes them on to their offspring. And so each large group competes against another large group. (The small groups already died or are in the process of doing so.) Looking toward the future, Darwin says, those large groups which are more powerful (more advantageous traits) will become even more large and powerful. To the victors belong the spoils.
Robby
Robby
"The ultimate result is that each creature tends to become more and more improved in relation to its conditions.
"This improvement inevitably leads to the gradual advancement of the organisation of the greater number of living beings throughout the world.
"But here we enter on a very intricate subject, for naturalists have not defined to each other's satisfaction what is meant by an advance in organisation. Amongst the vertebrata the degree of intellect and an approach in structure to man clearly come into play.
"It might be thought that the amount of change which the various parts and organs pass through in their development from the embryo to maturity would suffice as a standard of comparison. But there are cases -- as with certain parasitic crustaceans -- in which several parts of the structure become less perfect, so that the mature animal cannot be called higher than its larva.
"Von Baer's standard seems the most widely applicable and the best -- namely, the amount of differentiation of the parts of the same organic being -- in the adult state as I should be inclined to add -- and their specialisation for different functions. As Milne Edwards would express it, the completeness of the division of physiological labour.
"But we shall see how obscure this subject is if we look, for instance, to fishes, amongst which some naturalists rank those as highest which, like the sharks, approach nearest to amphibians.
"Other naturalists rank the common bony or teleostean fishes as the highest, inasmuch as they are most strictly fish-like and differ most from the other vertebrate classes.
"We see still more plainly the obscurity of the subject by turning to plants, amongst which the standard of intellect is of course quite excluded. Here some botanists rank those plants as highest which have every organ, as sepals, petals, stamens, and pistils, fully developed in each flower. Other botanists, probably with more truth, look at the plants which have their several organs much modified and reduced in number as the highest."
How does Natural Selection work, according to Darwin? By beneficial variations -- based on the environment -- being preserved and accumulated as each organism is reproduced. From this preservation and accumulation improvement results. Improvement leads to the structure of the organization itself being advanced. Now Darwin runs into the same philosophical questions that have hit us here. What is the definition of "advancement?" And here Darwin for the first time uses the term "man." So I will also use it. What do we mean when we say that Homo Sapiens is more advanced than Neanderthal man or an ape? Should we measure that by examining individual organs of the being, e.g. liver? lungs? brain? This doesn't work, Darwin tells us, because there are cases, e.g. parasitic crustaceans, where certain structures of the mature organism are less perfect than the offspring and is therefore not more "advanced." In the case of plants, some naturalists say that the ones in which the flower has sepals, petals, stamens, pistils more fully developed are the highest form. Other naturalists say that the plants with the more reduced organs are the highest form. So here we are, folks. Darwin and his fellow naturalists have the same problem we had right at the start. Definitions. What is a species? What is a variety? What is "advanced?" What is "highest?" What do you think?
Robby
To Byock death (or as he calls it, end-of-life) is central to the meaning and value of human life. He does not see death as the enemy.
Robby
"All physiologists admit that the specialisation of organs -- inasmuch as in this state they perform their functions better -- is an advantage to each being.
"Hence the accumulation of variations tending towards specialisation is within the scope of natural selection.
"On the other hand, we can see -- bearing in mind that all organic beings are striving to increase at a high ratio and to seize on every unoccupied or less well occupied place in the economy of nature -- that it is quite possible for natural selection gradually to fit a being to a situation in which several organs would be superfluous or useless.
"In such cases there would be retrogression in the scale of organisation.
"Whether organisation on the whole has actually advanced from the remotest geological periods to the present day will be more conveniently discussed in our chapter on Geological Succession."
Darwin defines "high organization" as the amount to which each organ in an adult being starts to differ and specialize. When he says "organ," he includes the brain. If an organ specializes, he says, it is functioning better. Therefore the being has an advantage. Natural Selection, he says, leads to the accumulattion of varieties and specialization. While all this is happening, each being is striving to live and reproduce and is occupying every "friendly" spot of land. In adapting to certain environments, some of the original organs within certain beings would become useless and would gradually disappear. He will apparently talk more about various environments when he gets to talking about Geology.
Robby
"And how is it that in each great class some forms are far more highly developed than others?
"Why have not the more highly developed forms everywhere supplanted and exterminated the lower?
"Lamarck -- who believed in an innate and inevitable tendency towards perfection in all organic beings -- seems to have felt this difficulty so strongly, that he was led to suppose that new and simple forms are continually being produced by spontaneous generation. Science has not as yet proved the truth of this belief, whatever the future may reveal.
"On our theory the continued existence of lowly organisms offers no difficulty. For natural selection, or the survival of the fittest, does not necessarily include progressive development- it only takes advantage of such variations as arise and are beneficial to each creature under its complex relations of life.
"It may be asked what advantage, as far as we can see, would it be to an infusorian animalcule- to an intestinal worm- or even to an earthworm, to be highly organised.
"If it were no advantage, these forms would be left -- by natural selection, unimproved or but little improved -- and might remain for indefinite ages in their present lowly condition.
"Geology tells us that some of the lowest forms, as the infusoria and rhizopods, have remained for an enormous period in nearly their present state.
"But to suppose that most of the many now existing low forms have not in the least advanced since the first dawn of life would be extremely rash. Every naturalist who has dissected some of the beings now ranked as very low in the scale, must have been struck with their really wondrous and beautiful organisation."
Darwin tells us that Lamarck believed that an innate power gradually moved organisms step by step progressively toward perfection. Why, then, Darwin asks, were there more and more lowly forms according to Lamarck. Lamarck's theory was that these new lowly forms were produced spontaneously. Darwin's theory does not believe in progression. As indicated in earlier paragraphs, Natural Selection takes advantage of whatever new varieties may arise and are beneficial to the organism, whatever level it may be. Darwin again refers to Geological research which has shown that some of these lowly forms have remained almost identical throughout millennia. I say "almost" because naturalists have found high forms of organization even in low forms of life.
Robby
Robby
"But mammals and fish hardly come into competition with each other. The advancement of the whole class of mammals -- or of certain members in this class -- to the highest grade would not lead to their taking the place of fishes.
"Physiologists believe that the brain must be bathed by warm blood to be highly active, and this requires aerial respiration. So that warm-blooded mammals when inhabiting the water lie under a disadvantage in having to come continually to the surface to breathe.
"With fishes, members of the shark family would not tend to supplant the lancelet. For the lancelet, as I hear from Fritz Muller, has as sole companion and competitor on the barren sandy shore of South Brazil, an anomalous annelid.
"The three lowest orders of mammals -- namely, marsupials, edentata, and rodents -- co-exist in South America in the same region with numerous monkeys, and probably interfere little with each other.
"Although organisation, on the whole, may have advanced and be still advancing throughout the world, yet the scale will always present many degrees of perfection. For the high advancement of certain whole classes -- or of certain members of each class -- does not at all necessarily lead to the extinction of those groups with which they do not enter into close competition.
"In some cases, as we shall hereafter see, lowly organised forms appear to have been preserved to the present day, from inhabiting confined or peculiar stations, where they have been subjected to less severe competition, and where their scanty numbers have retarded the chance of favourable variations arising."
If I understand this paragraph correctly, Darwin is comparing different species which have different stages of "advancement" and their ability to live together in the same environment without competing with each other. In these various cases he does not see one specie taking the place of another. Anyone here with a different interpretation?
Robby
"In some cases variations or individual differences of a favourable nature may never have arisen for natural selection to act on and accumulate.
"In no case, probably, has time sufficed for the utmost possible amount of development. In some few cases there has been what we must call retrogression of organisation.
"But the main cause lies in the fact that under very simple conditions of life a high organisation would be of no service,- possibly would be of actual disservice, as being of a more delicate nature, and more liable to be put out of order and injured."
Darwin brings up an important point here. He says that there were many possible different kinds of changes or modifications in varieties that just never occurred. There was no opportunity for Nature to select (Natural Selection), Life is a crap shoot. He also emphasizes the importance of time. Maybe no change has occurred because "only" a million years have gone by. Maybe in another million (or so) years a new variety might have come into existence. He speaks also of "retrogression of organization." If I understand that correctly, that means that something that was fairly highly developed changed back into a more primary organization. Under the concept of "survival of the fittest," that would mean to me that the primary form was more beneficial. Your thoughts on this?
Robby
"Mr. Herbert Spencer would probably answer that -- as soon as simple unicellular organism came by growth or division to be compounded of several cells -- or became attached to any supporting surface -- his law "that homologous units of any order become differentiated in proportion as their relations to incident forces" would come into action.
"But as we have no facts to guide us, speculation on the subject is almost useless.
"It is, however, an error to suppose that there would be no struggle for existence -- and, consequently, no natural selection until many forms had been produced.
"Variations in a single species inhabiting an isolated station might be beneficial. Thus the whole mass of individuals might be modified, or two distinct forms might arise.
"But, as I remarked towards the close of the Introduction, no one ought to feel surprise at much remaining as yet unexplained on the origin of species. Make due allowance for our profound ignorance on the mutual relations of the inhabitants of the world at the present time, and still more so during past ages."
Darwin is now beginning to ask the type of questions that may have upset the population of his period. He talks about the "first dawn of time." He says that all organic beings at that time had just the "simplest structure." That, of course, goes against believers of various religions. But he continues on with that premise and as there must always be a premise introducing an "argument," we will follow along with his. Wondering what could have been the first steps in advancement from a simple cell, or how it could have taken place, Darwin merely says that speculation is useless as we have no facts about life at that time. He says, however, that even if all the organisms at that time were just one-celled, there still would have been changes and a "struggle for existence." Environments would have been different and variations would have come into existence to meet the needs of the environments. Thus even the one-celled organisms would have ended up being different. Or a certain new variety would have gradually have become radically different from the others and, in effect, have become a new specie. All this being possibly so, he warns us to be cautious and remind ourselves that not only do we know little about relationships between organisms currently in existence, but obviously much much less about organisms that existed "way back there" and are no longer with us.
Robby
Robby
At the dawn of life (dawn of light, was an interesting interpretation)
molecules may have joined together into the building blocks of life.
These "blocks" may have been proto-proteins, proto-RNA, and proto-DNA.
(I hope mentioning RNA is allowed; we've mentioned DNA several times)
Different proto-cells may have been functional as cells, more or less at the same
time, with different configurations of the building blocks,
and the proto-cells may not all have been successful in dividing into many cells.
There is a further step, evolving from a single-celled organism into a multi-cellular organism, but that is too far away from this paragraph of Darwin's to elaborate on at this time.
Robby ~ Does the above address your question?
Robby
"If two species -- belonging to two distinct though allied genera -- had both produced a large number of new and divergent forms, it is conceivable that these might approach each other so closely that they would have all to be classed under the same genus. Thus the descendants of two distinct genera would converge into one.
"But it would in most cases be extremely rash to attribute to convergence a close and general similarity of structure in the modified descendants of widely distinct forms.
"The shape of a crystal is determined solely by the molecular forces. It is not surprising that dissimilar substances should sometimes assume the same form.
"With organic beings we should bear in mind that the form of each depends on an infinitude of complex relations -- namely on the variations which have arisen -- these being due to causes far too intricate to be followed out on the nature of the variations which have been preserved or selected.
"This depends on the surrounding physical conditions, and in a still higher degree on the surrounding organisms with which each being has come into competition.
"Lastly, on inheritance (in itself a fluctuating element) from innumerable progenitors, all of which have had their forms determined through equally complex relations.
"It is incredible that the descendants of two organisms -- which had originally differed in a marked manner -- should ever afterwards converge so closely as to lead to a near approach to identity throughout their whole organisation.
"If this had occurred, we should meet with the same form, independently of genetic connection, recurring in widely separated geological formations. The balance of evidence is opposed to any such an admission."
If I understand correctly, Darwin in the past has spoken of "divergence", i.e. organisms becoming different. Now he speaks of "convergence, i.e. different organisms appearing to be similar. It is possible, he says, that two species could appear so similar that they might be considered one specie. Biological organisms, he says, are complex. Items which should be taken into consideration are inheritance, environment, and the "battle for life" between the organisms. This complexity being so, it is highly unlikely that two organims would end up being almost identical. As I read that, I think of fingerprints. I am told that there are no two absolutely alike.
Robby
Robby
"As far as mere inorganic conditions are concerned, it seems probable that a sufficient number of species would soon become adapted to all considerable diversities of heat, moisture, &c..
"But I fully admit that the mutual relations of organic beings are more important. As the number of species in any country goes on increasing, the organic conditions of life must become more and more complex.
"Consequently there seems at first sight no limit to the amount of profitable diversification of structure, and therefore no limit to the number of species which might be produced.
"We do not know that even the most prolific area is fully stocked with specific forms. At the Cape of Good Hope and in Australia, which support such an astonishing number of species, many European plants have become naturalised.
"But geology shows us, that from an early part of the tertiary period the number of species of shells and that from the middle part of this same period the number of mammals, has not greatly or at all increased.
"What then checks an indefinite increase in the number of species? The amount of life (I do not mean the number of specific forms) supported on an area must have a limit, depending so largely as it does on physical conditions.
"Therefore, if an area be inhabited by very many species, each or nearly each species will be represented by few individuals; and such species will be liable to extermination from accidental fluctuations in the nature of the seasons or in the number of their enemies.
"The process of extermination in such cases would be rapid, whereas the production of new species must always be slow.
"Imagine the extreme case of as many species as individuals in England, and the first severe winter or very dry summer would exterminate thousands on thousands of species.
"Rare species -- and each species will become rare if the number of species in any country becomes indefinitely increased -- will, on the principle often explained, present within a given period few favourable variations. Consequently, the process of giving birth to new specific forms would thus be retarded.
"When any species becomes very rare, close interbreeding will help to exterminate it. Authors have thought that this comes into play in accounting for the deterioration of the aurochs in Lithuania, of red deer in Scotland, and of bears in Norway, &e.
"Lastly, and this I am inclined to think is the most important element -- a dominant species, which has already beaten many competitors in its own home, will tend to spread and supplant many others. Alph. de Candolle has shown that those species which spread widely, tend generally to spread very widely. Consequently, they will tend to supplant and exterminate several species in several areas, and thus check the inordinate increase of specific forms throughout the world.
"Dr. Hooker has recently shown that in the S.E. corner of Australia -- where, apparently, there are many invaders from different quarters of the globe -- the endemic Australian species have been greatly reduced in number. How much weight to attribute to these several considerations I will not pretend to say; but conjointly they must limit in each country the tendency to an indefinite augmentation of specific forms."
Darwin, if I understand this correctly, believes that most species would be able to adapt to just about every type of environment. However, he considers the relationships between organisms more important than the relationship between an organism and the environment. As species developed, diversified, amd became more complex, they would become stronger in their ability to survive. It would seem, Darwin then says, that theoretically there is no limit to the number of species. In areas where there appear to be a prolific number of different species, there could be even more. He asks, then, what is it that checks the constant indefinite increase of species? A particular environment can support only so many different species. Each of these species would have only a few individual organisms representing it. The answer, he says, is "geology." In the struggle for life, where there are only a few individuals representing specific species, death would come rapidly from heat, extreme cold, lack of moisture, etc. Rare species would become even more rare. At the same time, the increase in the number of species arrives slowly. Darwin adds that interbreeding among rare species hastens the death of the species. I don't understand that. Of interest (to me) is his statement that species which are dominant (stronger than other species) become even stronger and take over more territory. The strong become stronger and spread more widely and the weak become weaker and usually die. There's a story here somewhere.
Robby
"But if variations useful to any organic being ever do occur, assuredly individuals thus characterised will have the best chance of being preserved in the struggle for life. From the strong principle of inheritance, these will tend to produce offspring similarly characterised.
"This principle of preservation, or the survival of the fittest, I have called Natural Selection.
"It leads to the improvement of each creature in relation to its organic and inorganic conditions of life, and consequently, in most cases, to what must be regarded as an advance in organisation.
"Nevertheless, low and simple forms will long endure if well fitted for their simple conditions of life."
All right. What has Darwin been saying in this past chapter? He is saying, in my interpretation, that every part of every structure of an organism continues to tend toward individual differences. He also says that organisms increase on a rapid geometrical basis and therefore there is an ongoing struggle for life. He therefore concludes that a percentage of these differences (variations) would be of benefit to the organisms. This would be so because of the complexity of the many kinds of relationships -- the relations of the different beings to each other in terms of their structure, their constitution, their habits, etc. -- and the relations of the different beings to their many different kinds of environments -- the heat, the cold, the moisture, the dryness, etc. Those beings that have developed variations of benefit to themselves would naturally be the ones which survive in the ongoing "struggle for life." Following the Principle of Inheritance, these beneficial variations would pass down to the offspring. Darwin calls this Natural Selection. It leads to the improvement of each organism in many ways including the "advancement" of the various structures of the organism. Although low and simple organisms may not seem advanced, they often do continue to survive through the millennia because they are suited to their particular environment. What are your thoughts, folks?
Robby
" 'Within each of us — our skeletons, our behavior, and deep within our DNA — lurks our distant past. Make the relevant comparisons and we find that our hands resemble fossil fish fins, our heads are organized like long-extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genomes look and function like those of worms and bacteria. We unlock our history as we understand more about our DNA, as we compare ourselves to animals living and dead, and as we discover new fossils from around the world. With all of this history in our bodies, we are most definitely not designed 'intelligently.' Our chances of developing certain cancers, hernias, bad backs, injured knees, and even hiccups are the result of the history that we share with fish, worms, and clams."Shubin startled the world on March 31 with the announcement in the journal Science of the discovery of Tiktaalik, ' mosaic of primitive fish and derived amphibian' His moment of realization occurred while digging fish bones out of rocks on a snowy July afternoon.
" 'We live in an age of discovery where the classic stories of evolution have become the focus of vigorous new approaches from genetics and developmental biology. Breakthroughs in genetics are beginning to tell us how bodies are built, in essence giving insights into the recipe that builds animals from a single celled egg. Couple these breakthroughs with the remarkable fossil discoveries of the past decade, and we have opportunity to present a new worldview of the human body.'
" 'While studying 380 million year old rocks in Ellesmere Island, at a latitude of 80 North, I was uncovering one of the key transitional stages in the shift from fish to land living animal. Everybody knows that fish swim with fins and animals that walk on land have legs. I was in the Arctic to learn how this shift happened. The fish I was uncovering had a wrist and fingers. A fish with wrists and fingers? I was immediately struck that this fossil reveals a very deep branch of my evolutionary tree. This is the origin of my wrists and fingers. Huddled in the tent during prolonged Arctic storms, it occurred to me that 3.5 billion years in the history of life are embedded in my own body. ' "
MORE: Neil Shubin's comments about evolution
To re-emphasize: not all variations trend toward improvement of a given species. Some variations make the species less fit. Variation is a random process.
I'm sure Darwin said that somewhere; This is a big problem, IMO, of reading paragraph by paragraph, when trying to find a previous quotation.
Here's a brief synopsis of an article from the Tuesday Boston Globe, which I cannot find on-line; it's there, somewhere ...
The Tropics Teem with Diverse Life
"Why is life so diverse in the tropics? ... [it's] almost boundless in its variety,
but ... toward the poles ... it gets less varied."
A study was done by scientists from the Univ. of Auckland, NZ, which found that tropical plants had accumulated more changes than those in temperate zones.
Species appear to evolve more quickly in warm climates than in cold ones.
Published in PNAS, May 2006; this is one of the most respected peer-reviewed publications.
I interpret that to mean what you said. He implied that at times random variations occurred that were useful. The implication is that other times they were not an improvement.
Robby
"Amongst many animals, sexual selection will have given its aid to ordinary selection, by assuring to the most vigorous and best adapted males the greatest number of offspring.
"Sexual selection will also give characters useful to the males alone, in their struggles or rivalry with other males; and these characters will be transmitted to one sex or to both sexes, according to the form of inheritance which prevails."
I would consider this paragraph exceedingly important. As I am understanding it, any biological organism in any form or at any stage of its development can change and through the process of natural selection can survive or die. Those males who survive over other males will pass on their survival traits not only to male offspring but to female offspring as well. A brief paragraph but a powerful one.
Robby
"But we have already seen how it entails extinction. How largely extinction has acted in the world's history, geology plainly declares.
"Natural selection also leads to divergence of character. The more organic beings diverge in structure, habits, and constitution, by so much the more can a large number be supported on the area. We see proof by looking to the inhabitants of any small spot, and to the productions naturalised in foreign lands.
"Therefore, during the modification of the descendants of any one species, and during the incessant struggle of all species to increase in numbers, the more diversified the descendants become, the better will be their chance of success in the battle for life.
"Thus the small differences distinguishing varieties of the same species, steadily tend to increase, till they equal the greater differences between species of the same genus, or even of distinct genera."
Darwin calls our attention to the fact that geological excavations have shown us that there were many organisms alive eons ago which are now extinct. Very simply -- different species of plants and animals live and plants and animals die. He also calls our attention to the different kinds of varities which existed and that apparently divergence enabled these organisms to thrive. I like his phrase "the incessant struggle of all species to increase in numbers" followed by "diversification of descendants." There is no doubt that the human population on this planet is increasing. And as we look at the red, brown, white, black and in-between color of the faces, we see diversification. Any comments?
Robby
"These tend to transmit to their modified offspring that superiority which now makes them dominant in their own countries. Natural selection, as has just been remarked, leads to divergence of character and to much extinction of the less improved and intermediate forms of life.
"On these principles, the nature of the affinities, and the generally well-defined distinctions between the innumerable organic beings in each class throughout the world, may be explained.
"It is a truly wonderful fact- the wonder of which we are apt to overlook from familiarity- that all animals and all plants throughout all time and space should be related to each other in groups, subordinate to groups -- in the manner which we everywhere behold -- namely, varieties of the same species most closely related -- species of the same genus less closely and unequally related -- forming sections and sub-genera, species of distinct genera much less closely related -- and genera related in different degrees, forming sub-families, families, orders, sub-classes and classes.
"The several subordinate groups in any class cannot be ranked in a single file -- but seem clustered round points, and these round other points -- and so on in almost endless cycles.
"If species had been independently created, no explanation would have been possible of this kind of classification.
"It is explained through inheritance and the complex action of natural selection, entailing extinction and divergence of character, as we have seen illustrated in the diagram."
Darwin is nearing the end of the chapter and is summarizing what we have already learned from him. Natural Selection, he tells us, leads to divergence and to the death of those species which did not inherit superior traits. Using his chart, he showed us that these various species and varieties are related to each other. And now Darwin makes the claim that many people find difficult or impossible to believe. That there could be no explanation of the relationship of the different species or varieties if, as stated in Genesis, species had been independently created. Now that the chapter is being summarized, what thoughts do you people have?
Robby
I recommend (yea, urge!) everyone here to read it. It helps us to better understand what Darwin is telling us.
Robby
Robby
"The green and budding twigs may represent existing species.
"Those produced during former years may represent the long succession of extinct species.
"At each period of growth all the growing twigs have tried to branch out on all sides, and to overtop and kill the surrounding twigs and branches. In the same manner species and groups of species have at all times overmastered other species in the great battle for life.
"The limbs, divided into great branches, and these into lesser and lesser branches, were themselves once, when the tree was young, budding twigs. This connection of the former and present buds by ramifying branches may well represent the classification of all extinct and living species in groups subordinate to groups.
"Of the many twigs which flourished when the tree was a mere bush, only two or three, now grown into great branches, yet survive and bear the other branches. So with the species which lived during long-past geological periods very few have left living and modified descendants.
"From the first growth of the tree, many a limb and branch has decayed and dropped off. These fallen branches of various sizes may represent those whole orders, families, and genera which have now no living representatives, and which are known to us only in a fossil state.
"As we here and there see a thin straggling branch springing from a fork low down in a tree, and which by some chance has been favoured and is still alive on its summit, so we occasionally see an animal like the Ornithorhynchus or Lepidosiren, which in some small degree connects by its affinities to large branches of life, and which has apparently been saved from fatal competition by having inhabited a protected station.
"As buds give rise by growth to fresh buds, and these, if vigorous, branch out and overtop on all sides many a feebler branch -- so by generation I believe it has been with the great Tree of Life, which fills with its dead and broken branches the crust of the earth, and covers the surface with its everbranching and beautiful ramifications."
I don't believe I need to interpret the simile of a tree. As we bring this chapter to an end and prepare for the next chapter, tell us where you stand regarding Natural Selection and Survival of the Fittest.
Robby
Robby
Robby
Laws of Variation
"This, of course, is a wholly incorrect expression, but it serves to acknowledge plainly our ignorance of the cause of each particular variation.
"Some authors believe it to be as much the function of the reproductive system to produce individual differences -- or slight deviations of structure -- as to make the child like its parents.
"But the fact of variations and monstrosities occurring much more frequently under domestication than under nature -- and the greater variability of species having wider ranges than of those with restricted ranges -- lead to the conclusion that variability is generally related to the conditions of life to which each species has been exposed during several successive generations.
"In the first chapter I attempted to show that changed conditions act in two ways -- directly on the whole organisation or on certain parts alone -- and indirectly through the reproductive system.
"In all cases there are two factors -- the nature of the organism, which is much the most important of the two -- and the nature of the conditions.
"The direct action of changed conditions leads to definite or indefinite results. In the latter case the organisation seems to become plastic, and we have much fluctuating variability. In the former case the nature of the organism is such that it yields readily -- when subjected to certain conditions -- and all, or nearly all the individuals become modified in the same way."
Darwin admits that earlier he said that variations were due to chance. He has since come to the conclusion that this is not so. In fact, he adds, we don't know why each variation come into being. Some naturalists, he says, believe that the reproductive system of each organism not only has to do with causing the offspring to look like its parents but also has to do with the variations that come into existence. Darwin differs. He looks at the plants and animals under domestication. Under cultivation, he says, there are greater numbers of variations. He attributes this to the environment of a garden, for example, being different from the environment in nature. Plants change generation after generation in a well-kept garden which is so different from nature. It's the old nature vs nurture argument. Which is more important when discussing changes that occur in plants and animals? Darwin places his money on the internal structure of the organism which reacts to the environment. I may have messed this all up. What do you people think?
Robby
"There is reason to believe that in the course of time the effects have been greater than can be proved by clear evidence.
"But we may safely conclude that the innumerable complex co-adaptations of structure, which we see throughout nature between various organic beings, cannot be attributed simply to such action.
"In the following cases the conditions seem to have produced some slight definite effect.
"E. Forbes asserts that shells at their southern limit -- and when living in shallow water -- are more brightly coloured than those of the same species from further north or from a greater depth. But this certainly does not always hold good.
"Mr. Gould believes that birds of the same species are more brightly coloured under a clear atmosphere, than when living near the coast or on islands.
"Wollaston is convinced that residence near the sea affects the colours of insects.
"Moquin-Tandon gives a list of plants which, when growing near the sea-shore, have their leaves in some degree fleshy, though not elsewhere fleshy.
"These slightly varying organisms are interesting in as far as they present characters analogous to those possessed by the species which are confined to similar conditions."
Darwin is not sure just how much effect the environment has on various organisms. However, he tends to believe that there is a strong effect. He gives various examples but at the moment they seem, to him, to be circumstantial evidence.
Robby
"Again, innumerable instances are known to every naturalist, of species keeping true, or not varying at all, although living under the most opposite climates.
"Such considerations as these incline me to lay less weight on the direct action of the surrounding conditions, than on a tendency to vary, due to causes of which we are quite ignorant.
"In one sense the conditions of life may be said -- not only to cause variability, either directly or indirectly, but likewise to include natural selection -- for the conditions determine whether this or that variety shall survive.
"But when man is the selecting agent, we clearly see that the two elements of change are distinct. Variability is in some manner excited, but it is the will of man which accumulates the variations in certain directions.
"It is this latter agency which answers to the survival of the fittest under nature."
I'm not sure so help me here. Darwin is telling us that all sorts of results can happen. The same flower, for example, from the same variety can find itself in an entirely different environment and continue exactly as before. On the other hand, in the same environment different varieties arise. And there are occasions where a flower in both hot and cold or wet and dry environments still continuing true to itself. This leads Darwin to placing less emphasis on the environment than on other causes of which he pleads ignorance. (DNA?) He does acknowledge that the environment may have much to do with whether an organism lives or dies. And this is definitely true in nature. But he sees the influence of man as important in moving organisms in certain directions. Yes? No?
Robby
Mallylee:-An excellent example of the influence of the environment. If Darwin only knew how the meaning of the term environment would expand.
Robby
"Under free nature, we have no standard of comparison, by which to judge of the effects of long-continued use or disuse. We know not the parent-forms. But many animals possess structures which can be best explained by the effects of disuse.
"As Professor Owen has remarked, there is no greater anomaly in nature than a bird that cannot fly; yet there are several in this state. The logger-headed duck of South America can only flap along the surface of the water -- and has its wings in nearly the same condition as the domestic Aylesbury duck. It is a remarkable fact that the young birds, according to Mr. Cunningham, can fly, while the adults have lost this power.
"As the larger ground-feeding birds seldom take flight except to escape danger, it is probable that the nearly wingless condition of several birds -- now inhabiting or which lately inhabited several oceanic islands, tenanted by no beast of prey -- has been caused by disuse.
"The ostrich indeed inhabits continents, and is exposed to danger from which it cannot escape by flight -- but it can defend itself by kicking its enemies, as efficiently as many quadrupeds.
"We may believe that the progenitor of the ostrich genus had habits like those of the bustard -- and that, as the size and weight of its body were increased during successive generations, its legs were used more, and its wings less -- until they became incapable of flight."
Darwin reminds us that if various organs in a body are not used, they they gradually lose their ability to function. I imagine that the appendix is an example. Surgeons routinely remove the appendix if they happen to be working on that part of the body. It is useless. I have no idea what the appendix originally did. We have no idea because the gradual change from functional to non-functional was changed in nature over a period of eons. We have no way to measure. But in the case of domestic animals, Darwin says, we are able to measure. We remember from Chapter One how man could change pigeons over a comparatively short period of time. Darwin quotes Owen as finding it extraordinary that an organism would develop wings and not be able to fly. The apparent conclusion was that it could originally fly but again over a period of eons use the wings less and less. Practically every one knows the expression "Use it or lose it." I wonder how many people who know that expression realize that they are talking in evolutionary terms.
Robby
And no matter what the progress
Or what may yet be proved
The simple facts of life are such
They cannot be removed.
You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by.
And when two lovers woo
They still say, "I love you."
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As time goes by.
Moonlight and love songs
Never out of date.
Hearts full of passion
Jealousy and hate.
Woman needs man
And man must have his mate
That no one can deny.
It's still the same old story
A fight for love and glory
A case of do or die.
The world will always welcome lovers
As time goes by.
"In the Onites apelles the tarsi are so habitually lost, that the insect has been described as not having them.
"In some other genera they are present, but in a rudimentary condition.
"In the Ateuchus, or sacred beetle of the Egyptians, they are totally deficient.
"The evidence that accidental mutilations can be inherited is at present not decisive. But the remarkable cases observed by Brown-Sequard in guinea-pigs, of the inherited effects of operations, should make us cautious in denying this tendency.
"Hence it will perhaps be safest to look at the entire absence of the anterior tarsi in Ateuchus, and their rudimentary condition in some other genera, not as cases of inherited mutilations, but as due to the effects of long-continued disuse. For as many dung-feeding beetles are generally found with their tarsi lost, this must happen early in life. Therefore the tarsi cannot be of much importance or be much used by these insects."
Darwin is cautious about saying that mutilations can be inherited. He is still open to accepting this. Better to think in terms of various organs not being used over extended periods of time. And again -- "use it or lose it."
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Mr. Wollaston has discovered the remarkable fact that 200 beetles, out of the 550 species (but more are now known) inhabiting Madeira, are so far deficient in wings that they cannot fly. That, of the twenty-nine endemic genera, no less than twenty-three have all their species in this condition!
"Several facts, namely, that beetles in many parts of the world are frequently blown to sea and perish. That the beetles in Madeira, as observed by Mr. Wollaston, lie much concealed, until the wind lulls and the sun shines.
"That the proportion of wingless beetles is larger on the exposed Desertas than in Madeira itself.
"Especially the extraordinary fact, so strongly insisted on by Mr. Wollaston, that certain large groups of beetles -- elsewhere excessively numerous, which absolutely require the use of their wings -- are here almost entirely absent.
"These several considerations make me believe that the wingless condition of so many Madeira beetles is mainly due to the action of natural selection, combined probably with disuse.
"For during many successive generations each individual beetle which flew least, either from its wings having been ever so little less perfectly developed or from indolent habit, will have had the best chance of surviving from not being blown out to sea. On the other hand, those beetles which most readily took to flight would oftenest have been blown to sea, and thus destroyed."
Natural Selection plus disuse of certain organs? What do you folks, think?
Robby
"For when a new insect first arrived on the island, the tendency of natural selection to enlarge or to reduce the wings, would depend on whether a greater number of individuals were saved by successfully battling with the winds -- or by giving up the attempt and rarely or never flying.
"As with mariners shipwrecked near a coast, it would have been better for the good swimmers if they had been able to swim still further, whereas it would have been better for the bad swimmers if they had not been able to swim at all and had stuck to the wreck."
Each to his own method of survival.
Robby
"This state of the eyes is probably due to gradual reduction from disuse, but aided perhaps by natural selection.
"In South America, a burrowing rodent, the tucotuco, or Ctenomys, is even more subterranean in its habits than the mole. I was assured by a Spaniard, who had often caught them, that they were frequently blind.
"One which I kept alive was certainly in this condition, the cause, as appeared on dissection, having been inflammation of the nictitating membrane. As frequent inflammation of the eyes must be injurious to any animal -- and as eyes are certainly not necessary to animals having subterranean habits -- a reduction in their size, with the adhesion of the eyelids and growth of fur over them, might in such case be an advantage. If so, natural selection would aid the effects of disuse.
"It is well known that several animals, belonging to the most different classes, which inhabit the caves of Carniola and of Kentucky, are blind. In some of the crabs the foot-stalk for the eye remains, though the eye is gone -- the stand for the telescope is there, though the telescope with its glasses has been lost.
"As it is difficult to imagine that eyes, though useless, could be in any way injurious to animals living in darkness, their loss may be attributed to disuse.
"In one of the blind animals, namely, the cave-rat (Noetoma), two of which were captured by Professor Silliman at above half a mile distance from the mouth of the cave -- and therefore not in the profoundest depths -- the eyes were lustrous and of large size. These animals, as I am informed by Professor Silliman, after having been exposed for about a month to a graduated light, acquired a dim perception of objects."
Interesting how, in the case of the cave rat, eyes which were "blind" due to disuse, gradually could see light from increasing use. Works in both directions. Your comments on this paragraph, please?
Robby
Robby
"So that -- in accordance with the old view of the blind animals having been separately created for the American and European caverns -- very close similarity in their organisation and affinities might have been expected.
"This is certainly not the case if we look at the two whole faunas.
"With respect to the insects alone, Schiodte has remarked, "We are accordingly prevented from considering the entire phenomenon in any other light than something purely local -- and the similarity which is exhibited in a few forms between the Mammoth cave (in Kentucky) and the caves in Carniola -- otherwise than as a very plain expression of that analogy which subsists generally between the fauna of Europe and of North America."
"On my view we must suppose that American animals, having in most cases ordinary powers of vision, slowly migrated by successive generations from the outer world into the deeper and deeper recesses of the Kentucky caves, as did European animals into the caves of Europe.
"We have some evidence of this gradation of habit.
"As Schiodte remarks, 'We accordingly look upon the subterranean faunas as small ramifications which have penetrated into the earth from the geographically limited faunas of the adjacent tracts -- and which, as they extended themselves into darkness, have been accommodated to surrounding circumstances. Animals not far remote from ordinary forms, prepare the transition from light to darkness. Next follow those that are constructed for twilight; and, last of all, those destined for total darkness, and whose formation is quite peculiar.'
"These remarks of Schiodte's it should be understood, apply not to the same, but to distinct species.
"By the time that an animal had reached -- after numberless generations -- the deepest recesses, disuse will on this view have more or less perfectly obliterated its eyes. Natural selection will often have effected other changes, such as an increase in the length of the antennae or palpi, as a compensation for blindness.
"Notwithstanding such modifications, we might expect still to see in the cave-animals of America, affinities to the other inhabitants of that continent -- and in those of Europe to the inhabitants of the European continent.
"And this is the case with some of the American cave-animals, as I hear from Professor Dana. Some, of the European cave insects are very closely allied to those of the surrounding country. It would be difficult to give any rational explanation of the affinities of the blind cave-animals to the other inhabitants of the two continents on the ordinary view of their independent creation.
"That several of the inhabitants of the caves of the Old and New Worlds should be closely related, we might expect from the well-known relationship of most of their other productions. As a blind species of Bathyscia is found in abundance on shady rocks far from caves, the loss of vision in the cave-species of this one genus has probably had no relation to its dark habitation.
"It is natural that an insect already deprived of vision should readily become adapted to dark caverns. Another blind genus (Anophthaimus) offers this remarkable peculiarity, that the species, as Mr. Murray observes, have not as yet been found anywhere except in caves.
"Yet those which inhabit the several eaves of Europe and America are distinct. It is possible that the progenitors of these several species, whilst they were furnished with eyes, may formerly have ranged over both continents -- and then have become extinct -- excepting in their present secluded abodes.
"Far from feeling surprise that some of the cave-animals should be very anomalous -- as Agassiz has remarked in regard to the blind fish, the Amblyopsis, and as is the case with blind Proteus with reference to the reptiles of Europe -- I am only surprised that more wrecks of ancient life have not been preserved, owing to the less severe competition to which the scanty inhabitants of these dark abodes will have been exposed."
Help me, folks. How do you "translate" or "interpret" this?
Robby
Robby
"As it is extremely common for distinct species belonging to the same genus to inhabit hot and cold countries -- if it be true that all the species of the same genus are descended from a single parent-form, acclimatisation must be readily effected during a long course of descent.
"It is notorious that each species is adapted to the climate of its own home. Species from an arctic or even from a temperate region cannot endure a tropical climate, or conversely. So again, many succulent plants cannot endure a damp climate.
"But the degree of adaptation of species to the climates under which they live is often overrated. We may infer this from our frequent inability to predict whether or not an imported plant will endure our climate -- and from the number of plants and animals brought from different countries which are here perfectly healthy.
"We have reason to believe that species in a state of nature are closely limited in their ranges by the competition of other organic beings quite as much as, or more than, by adaptation to particular climates. But whether or not this adaptation is in most cases very close, we have evidence with some few plants, of their becoming -- to a certain extent -- naturally habituated to different temperatures.
"They become acclimatised.
"Thus the pines and rhododendrons -- raised from seed collected by Dr. Hooker from the same species growing at different heights on the Himalaya -- were found to possess in this country different constitutional powers of resisting cold.
"Mr. Thwaites informs me that he has observed similar facts in Ceylon. Analogous observations have been made by Mr. H. C. Watson on European species of plants brought from the Azores to England. I could give other cases.
"In regard to animals, several authentic instances could be adduced of species having largely extended -- within historical times -- their range from warmer to cooler latitudes -- and conversely.
"But we do not positively know that these animals were strictly adapted to their native climate, though in all ordinary cases we assume such to be the case. Nor do we know that they have subsequently become specially acclimatised to their new homes, so as to be better fitted for them than they were at first."
Let's see if I have this straight. Specific types of plants tend to follow the same procedures (habits) -- flower at the same time -- close their petals or leaves at the same time -- require the same amount of rain to germinate the seeds. As the millennia passed, the climate had a definite effect on the plants. The plants adapted themselves to a specific climate. If they are taken to a climate which is entirely different, they sometimes die. I insert the word "sometimes" because Darwin says there are cases where the plant continues to thrive even in a different type of climate. We never know if this is going to happen or not. What happens in these cases, he says, is that the plant becomes acclimatized to the new and different climate. They develop what he calls "constitutional powers." He believes the same is true of animals but is not sure.
Robby
Robby
"The common and extraordinary capacity in our domestic animals of not only withstanding the most different climates, but of being perfectly fertile (a far severer test) under them, may be used as an argument that a large proportion of other animals now in a state of nature could easily be brought to bear widely different climates.
"We must not, however, push the foregoing argument too far, on account of the probable origin of some of our domestic animals from several wild stocks. The blood, for instance, of a tropical and arctic wolf may perhaps be mingled in our domestic breeds.
"The rat and mouse cannot be considered as domestic animals, but they have been transported by man to many parts of the world, and now have a far wider range than any other rodent. They live under the cold climate of Faroe in the north and of the Falklands in the south, and on many an island in the torrid zones.
"Hence adaptation to any special climate may be looked at as a quality readily grafted on an innate wide flexibility of constitution, common to most animals.
"On this view, the capacity of enduring the most different climates by man himself and by his domestic animals -- and the fact of the extinct elephant and rhinoceros having formerly endured a glacial climate, whereas the living species are now all tropical or sub-tropical in their habits -- ought not to be looked at as anomalies, but as examples of a very common flexibility of constitution, brought, under peculiar circumstances, into action."
Here is what I get. Uncivilized man domesticaled some animals because it was found that they bred easily under confinement. Many of these domesticated animals can withstand different kinds of climate. One could therefore say, according to Darwin, that many other animals living in nature could also learn how to withstand different climates. He adds that we be cautious about this. He cites examples of arctic wolves and tropical wolves being able to breed with dogs. Rats and mice can be found everywhere. He adds that elephants and rhinoceroseseses (I stutter) used to live in cold climates. He attributes this to what he calls the flexibility of the constitutions of the various organisms.
Robby
"That habit or custom has some influence, I must believe, both from analogy and from the incessant advice given in agricultural works, even in the ancient encyclopaedias of China -- to be very cautious in transporting animals from one district to another.
"And as it is not likely that man should have succeeded in selecting so many breeds and sub-breeds with constitutions specially fitted for their own districts, the result must, I think, be due to habit.
"On the other hand, natural selection would inevitably tend to preserve those individuals which were born with constitutions best adapted to any country which they inhabited.
"In treatises on many kinds of cultivated plants, certain varieties are said to withstand certain climates better than others. This is strikingly shown in works on fruit-trees published in the United States, in which certain varieties are habitually recommended for the northern and others for the southern States. As most of these varieties are of recent origin, they cannot owe their constitutional differences to habit. The case of the Jerusalem artichoke -- which is never propagated in England by seed, and of which consequently new varieties have not been produced -- has even been advanced, as proving that acclimatisation cannot be effected, for it is now as tender as ever it was! The case, also, of the kidney-bean has been often cited for a similar purpose, and with much greater weight. Until someone will sow, during a score of generations, his kidney-beans so early that a very large proportion are destroyed by frost -- and then collect seed from the few survivors, with care to prevent accidental crosses -- and then again get seed from these seedlings, with the same precautions -- the experiment cannot be said to have been tried.
"Nor let it be supposed that differences in the constitution of seedling kidney-beans never appear, for an account has been published how much more hardy some seedlings are than others. Of this fact I have myself observed striking instances.
"On the whole, we may conclude that habit, or use and disuse, have, in some cases, played a considerable part in the modification of the constitution and structure -- but that the effects have often been largely combined with, and sometimes overmastered by -- the natural selection of innate variations."
Darwin gives examples of what he calls plant changes due to Natural Selection, not "habit."
Robby
"That habit or custom has some influence, I must believe -- both from analogy and from the incessant advice given in agricultural works, even in the ancient encyclopaedias of China -- to be very cautious in transporting animals from one district to another.
"And as it is not likely that man should have succeeded in selecting so many breeds and sub-breeds with constitutions specially fitted for their own districts, the result must, I think, be due to habit.
"On the other hand, natural selection would inevitably tend to preserve those individuals which were born with constitutions best adapted to any country which they inhabited.
"In treatises on many kinds of cultivated plants, certain varieties are said to withstand certain climates better than others. This is strikingly shown in works on fruit-trees published in the United States -- in which certain varieties are habitually recommended for the northern and others for the southern States. As most of these varieties are of recent origin, they cannot owe their constitutional differences to habit.
"The case of the Jerusalem artichoke -- which is never propagated in England by seed, and of which consequently new varieties have not been produced -- has even been advanced, as proving that acclimatisation cannot be effected. It is now as tender as ever it was!
"The case, also, of the kidney-bean has been often cited for a similar purpose, and with much greater weight. Until someone will sow, during a score of generations, his kidney-beans so early that a very large proportion are destroyed by frost -- and then collect seed from the few survivors, with care to prevent accidental crosses -- and then again get seed from these seedlings, with the same precautions -- the experiment cannot be said to have been tried.
"Nor let it be supposed that differences in the constitution of seedling kidney-beans never appear. An account has been published how much more hardy some seedlings are than others. Of this fact I have myself observed striking instances.
On the whole, we may conclude that habit -- or use and disuse -- have, in some cases, played a considerable part in the modification of the constitution and structure. The effects have often been largely combined with, and sometimes overmastered by, the natural selection of innate variations."
If I get this correctly, Darwin is saying the Natural Selection has more effect than use vs disuse.
Robby
"This is a very important subject, most imperfectly understood. No doubt wholly different classes of facts may be here easily confounded together.
"We shall presently see that simple inheritance often gives the false appearance of correlation.
"One of the most obvious real cases is, that variations of structure arising in the young or larvae naturally tend to affect the structure of the mature animal.
"The several parts of the body which are homologous -- and which, at an early embryonic period, are identical in structure -- and which are necessarily exposed to similar conditions, seem eminently liable to vary in a like manner.
"We see this in the right and left sides of the body varying in the same manner -- in the front and hind legs -- and even in the jaws and limbs, varying together. The lower jaw is believed by some anatomists to be homologous with the limbs.
"These tendencies, I do not doubt, may be mastered more or less completely by natural selection. Thus a family of stags once existed with an antler only on one side. If this had been of any great use to the breed, it might probably have been rendered permanent by selection."
I believe that Darwin is telling us that when one organ or part of the body is changed in some way, that the entire body adapts through change of some sort. The analogy that comes to my mind is family dynamics. If only one member of the family changes -- starts drinking, recovers from alcoholism, becomes depressed, etc. etc. -- that other family members do not remain the same but adapt accordingly. These changes in the entire structure tend to pass down to the offspring.
Robby
However, I was not emphasizing so much that, as pointing out that just one part changing (organ within a body, member within a family) can affect the entire structure. This is what Marriage and Family Counselors call "family dynamics."
Robby
"Hard parts seem to affect the form of adjoining soft parts. It is believed by some authors that with birds the diversity in the shape of the pelvis causes the remarkable diversity in the shape of their kidneys.
"Others believe that the shape of the pelvis in the human mother influences by pressure the shape of the head of the child.
"In snakes, according to Schlegel, the form of the body and the manner of swallowing determine the position and form of several of the most important viscera."
The dictionary tells us that the term "homologous" in biological use means "having the same evolutionary origin but serving different functions, e.g. the wing of a bat and the arm of a man." Darwin tells us that homologous parts tend to cohere, meaning sticking together and resisting separation. He gives as an example, the sticking of petals together. He adds that hard parts affect nearby soft parts, an example being the shape of the human mother's pelvis affecting the shape of the head of the child. I'm sure we'll have some comments here.
Robby
"Isidore Geoffroy St-Hilaire has forcibly remarked that certain malconformations frequently, and that others rarely, co-exist, without our being able assign any reason.
"What can be more singular than the relation in cats between complete whiteness and blue eyes with deafness -- or between the tortoise-shell colour and the female sex -- or in pigeons between their feathered feet and skin betwixt the outer toes -- or between the presence of more or less down on the young pigeon when first hatched, with the future colour of its plumage.
"Or, again, the relation between the hair and teeth in the naked Turkish dog, though here no doubt homology comes into play?
"With respect to this latter case of correlation, I think it can hardly be accidental -- that the two orders of mammals which are most abnormal in their dermal covering, viz., Cetacea (whales) and Edentata (armadilloes, scaly ant-eaters, &c.,) are likewise on the whole the most abnormal in their teeth.
"But there are so many exceptions to this rule, as Mr. Mivart has remarked, that it has little value."
Any comments about correlation in different variations?
Robby
Robby
"Every one is familiar with the difference between the ray and central florets of, for instance, the daisy. This difference is often accompanied with the partial or complete abortion of the reproductive organs.
"But in some of these plants, the seeds also differ in shape and sculpture. These differences have sometimes been attributed to the pressure of the involuera on the florets, or to their mutual pressure. The shape of the seeds in the ray-florets of some Compositae countenances this idea.
"But with the Umbelliferae, it is by no means, as Dr. Hooker informs me, the species with the densest heads which most frequently differ in their inner and outer flowers.
"It might have been thought that the development of the ray-petals by drawing nourishment from the reproductive organs causes their abortion. But this can hardly be the sole cause, for in some Compositae the seeds of the outer and inner florets differ -- without any difference in the corolla.
"Possibly these several differences may be connected with the different flow of nutriment towards the central and external flowers. We know, at least, that with irregular flowers, those nearest to the axis are most subject to peloria, that is to become abnormally symmetrical.
"I may add -- as an instance of this fact, and as a striking case of correlation -- that in many pelargoniums, the two upper petals in the central flower of the truss often lose their patches of darker colour. When this occurs, the adherent nectary is quite aborted -- the central flower thus becoming peloric or regular.
"When the colour is absent from only one of the two upper petals, the nectary is not quite aborted but is much shortened."
Most of us here, certainly including myself, are not botanists. Speaking for myself, I will ignore the various Latin names of the different flowers. What Darwin is doing here, as I understand it, is showing the difference between the outer and inner flowers of specific plants. As he says, we are all acquainted with the daisy. We see the difference between the small florets which make up the inner yellow "sun" and the larger white petals. What he is telling us (and I didn't know this) is that often they have no reproductive organs. One theory was that the petals drew nourishment from the reproductive organs. But of course, some of them must have reproductive organs or daisies would go out of existence. Any horticulturists here? With the exception of Bubble and Mallylee, is there anyone at all here?
Robby
Robby
Robby
And I suspect that even those who say they don't understand are gathering more info than they believe. None of us expects to become a Darwin.
Robby
Sterile "daisies" are like sterile animals: intervention, presumably by human horticulturalists, have created sterile crosses, which cannot form seed.
I do have some college background in botany, so ask away.
And Robby, do feel better ... your leadership is invaluable!
My absence in this group is actually horticulturally connected --
it's the time of year to plant the garden at Cape Cod (MA) and I've been so worn
out from spending hours in my garden, that my time on-line has been curtailed.
"But with respect to the seeds, it seems impossible that their differences in shape, which are not always correlated with any difference in the corolla, can be in any way beneficial. Yet in the Umbelliferae these differences are of such apparent importance-- the seeds being sometimes orthospermous in the exterior flowers and coelospermous in the central flowers -- that the elder De Candolle founded his main divisions in the order on such characters.
"Hence modifications of structure -- viewed by systematists as of high value -- may be wholly due to the laws of variation and correlation, without being -- as far as we can judge -- of the slightest service to the species."
Any thoughts here?
Robby
Robby
"An ancient progenitor may have acquired through natural selection some one modification in structure -- and, after thousands of generations, some other and independent modification -- and these two modifications -- having been transmitted to a whole group of descendants with diverse habits -- would naturally be thought to be in some necessary manner correlated.
"Some other correlations are apparently due to the manner in which natural selection can alone act.
"For instance, Alph. de Candolle has remarked that winged seeds are never found in fruits which do not open. I should explain this rule by the impossibility of seeds gradually becoming winged through natural selection, unless the capsules were open. In this case alone could the seeds -- which were a little better adapted to be wafted by the wind -- gain an advantage over others less well fitted for wide dispersal."
I need some help here. Darwin has been trying to explain "correlated variation" to us. Here he is saying that we see some structures and think they are examples of correlated variation whereas they are simply due to "inheritance." I don't quite get this.
Robby
Robby
"I think this holds true to a certain extent with our domestic productions. If nourishment flows to one part or organ in excess, it rarely flows, at least in excess, to another part. Thus it is difficult to get a cow to give much milk and to fatten readily.
"The same varieties of the cabbage do not yield abundant and nutritious foliage and a copious supply of oil-bearing seeds. When the seeds in our fruits become atrophied, the fruit itself gains largely in size and quality.
"In our poultry, a large tuft of feathers on the head is generally accompanied by a diminished comb -- and a large beard by diminished wattles.
"With species in a state of nature it can hardly be maintained that the law is of universal application. But many good observers, more especially botanists, believe in its truth.
"I will not, however, here give any instances, for I see hardly any way of distinguishing between the effects -- on the one hand, of a part being largely developed through natural selection and another and adjoining part being reduced by this same process or by disuse -- and on the other hand the actual withdrawal of nutriment from one part owing to the excess of growth in another and adjoining part."
A chicken is either great for meat or else for egg laying? A dog is either strong or a fast runner? A man is either brainy or an Atlas? Something doesn't seem quite right here.
Robby
"It is hopeless to attempt to convince any one of the truth of the above proposition without giving the long array of facts which I have collected, and which cannot possibly be here introduced. I can only state my conviction that it is a rule of high generality.
"I am aware of several causes of error, but I hope that I have made due allowance for them.
"It should be understood that the rule by no means applies to any part, however unusually developed, unless it be unusually developed in one species or in a few species in comparison with the same part in many closely allied species. Thus, the wing of a bat is a most abnormal structure in the class of mammals, but the rule would not apply here, because the whole group of bats possesses wings. It would apply only if some one species had wings developed in a remarkable manner in comparison with the other species of the same genus.
"The rule applies very strongly in the case of secondary sexual characters, when displayed in any unusual manner. The term, secondary sexual characters, used by Hunter, relates to characters which are attached to one sex, but are not directly connected with the act of reproduction. The rule applies to males and females -- but more rarely to the females, as they seldom offer remarkable secondary sexual characters.
"The rule being so plainly applicable in the case of secondary sexual characters may be due to the great variability of these characters -- whether or not displayed in any unusual manner -- of which fact I think there can be little doubt.
"But that our rule is not confined to secondary sexual characters is clearly shown in the case of hermaphrodite cirripedes.
"I particularly attended to Mr. Waterhouse's remark, whilst investigating this Order, and I am fully convinced that the rule almost always holds good.
"I shall, in a future work, give a list of all the more remarkable cases. I will here give only one, as it illustrates the rule in its largest application.
"The opereular valves of sessile cirripedes (rock barnacles) are, in every sense of the word, very important structures. They differ extremely little even in distinct genera.
"But in the several species of one genus, Pyrgoma, these valves present a marvelous amount of diversification. The homologous valves in the different species being sometimes wholly unlike in shape -- and the amount of variation in the individuals of the same species is so great -- that it is no exaggeration to state that the varieties of the same species differ more from each other in the characters derived from these important organs, than do the species belonging to other distinct genera."
Most of this paragraph is giving evidence for what Darwin has found to be true. I'm still not sure what is the "Rule."
Robby
"I have particularly attended to them.. The rule certainly seems to hold good in this class.
"I cannot make out that it applies to plants, and this would have seriously shaken my belief in its truth, had not the great variability in plants made it particularly difficult to compare their relative degrees of variability.
"When we see any part or organ developed in a remarkable degree or manner in a species, the fair presumption is that it is of high importance to that species. Nevertheless it is in this case eminently liable to variation.
"Why should this be so? On the view that each species has been independently created, with all its parts as we now see them, I can see no explanation. But on the view that groups of species are descended from some other species -- and have been modified through natural selection -- I think we can obtain some light.
"First let me make some preliminary remarks. If, in our domestic animals, any part or the whole animal be neglected -- and no selection be applied -- that part (for instance, the comb in the Dorking fowl) or the whole breed will cease to have a uniform character. The breed may be said to be degenerating.
"In rudimentary organs -- and in those which have been but little specialised for any particular purpose, and perhaps in polymorphic groups -- we see a nearly parallel case. In such cases natural selection either has not or cannot have come into full play, and thus the organisation is left in a fluctuating condition.
"But what here more particularly concerns us is -- that those points in our domestic animals, which at the present time are undergoing rapid change by continued selection -- are also eminently liable to variation.
"Look at the individuals of the same breed of the pigeon. See what a prodigious amount of difference there is in the beaks of tumblers, in the beaks and wattle of carriers, in the carriage and tail of fantails, &c., these being the points now mainly attended to by English fanciers.
"Even in the same sub-breed, as in that of the short-faced tumbler, it is notoriously difficult to breed nearly perfect birds, many departing widely from the standard. There may truly be said to be a constant struggle going on between -- on the one hand, the tendency to reversion to a less perfect state, as well as an innate tendency to new variations -- and, on the other hand, the power of steady selection to keep the breed true.
"In the long run selection gains the day, and we do not expect to fail so completely as to breed a bird as coarse as a common tumbler pigeon from a good short-faced strain.
"As long as selection is rapidly going on, much variability in the parts undergoing modification may always be expected."
Darwin is telling us, I believe, that Natural Selection tends to win out over the tendency to reversion.
Robby
"This period will seldom be remote in any extreme degree, as species rarely endure for more than one geological period.
"An extraordinary amount of modification implies an unusually large and long-continued amount of variability -- which has continually been accumulated by natural selection for the benefit of the species.
"But as the variability of the extraordinarily developed part or organ has been so great and long-continued within a period not excessively remote, we might, as a general rule, still expect to find more variability in such parts than in other parts of the organisation which have remained for a much longer period nearly constant.
"This, I am convinced, is the case.
"That the struggle between natural selection on the one hand, and the tendency to reversion and variability on the other hand, will in the course of time cease. That the most abnormally developed organs may be made constant, I see no reason to doubt.
"Hence, when an organ -- however abnormal it may be -- has been transmitted in approximately the same condition to many modified descendants -- as in the case of the wing of the bat -- it must have existed, according to our theory, for an immense period in nearly the same state. Thus it has come not to be more variable than any other structure.
"It is only in those cases in which the modification has been comparatively recent and extraordinarily great that we ought to find the generative variability, as it may be called, still present in a high degree.
"For in this case the variability will seldom as yet have been fixed by the continued selection of the individuals varying in the required manner and degree -- and by the continued rejection of those tending to revert to a former and less modified condition."
Let me see if I have this. Darwin says that parts (organs) in the individual which have changed underwent many many modifications over the millennia. And these changes, he says, occurred through natural selection because they were to the benefit of the organism. However, he adds, there is always a tendency to revert to the original structure of the organism. Nevertheless, he believes that if this modification remains for a long long period of time, the tendency to revert ceases and Natural Selection has "won."
Robby
"It is notorious that specific characters are more variable than generic.
"To explain by a simple example what is meant -- if in a large genus of plants some species had blue flowers and some had red -- the colour would be only a specific character -- and no one would be surprised at one of the blue species varying into red, or conversely. But if all the species had blue flowers, the colour would become a generic character, and its variation would be a more unusual circumstance.
"I have chosen this example because the explanation which most naturalists would advance is not here applicable -- namely, that specific characters are more variable than generic -- because they are taken from parts of less physiological importance than those commonly used for classing genera.
"I believe this explanation is partly, yet only indirectly, true. I shall, however, have to return to this point in the chapter on Classification.
"It would be almost superfluous to adduce evidence in support of the statement -- that ordinary specific characters are more variable than generic.
"But with respect to important characters I have repeatedly noticed in works on natural history, that when an author remarks with surprise that some important organ or part -- which is generally very constant throughout a large group of species -- differs considerably in closely-allied species, it is often variable in the individuals of the same species.
"And this fact shows that a character -- which is generally of generic value, when it sinks in value and becomes only of specific value -- often becomes variable, though its physiological importance may remain the same.
"Something of the same kind applies to monstrosities. At least Isidore Geoffroy St-Hilaire apparently entertains no doubt that the more an organ normally differs in the different species of the same group, the more subject it is to anomalies in the individuals."
Any horticulturists here to help us understand this?
Robby
"On the ordinary view of each species having been independently created, why should that part of the structure -- which differs from the same part in other independently-created species of the same genus -- be more variable than those parts which are closely alike in the several species?
"I do not see that any explanation can be given.
"But on the view that species are only strongly marked and fixed varieties, we might expect often to find them still continuing to vary in those parts of their structure which have varied within a moderately recent period -- and which have thus come to differ.
"Or to state the case in another manner:- the points in which all the species of a genus resemble each other -- and in which they differ from allied genera -- are called generic characters. These characters may be attributed to inheritance from a common progenitor. It can rarely have happened that natural selection will have modified several distinct species -- fitted to more or less widely-different habits -- in exactly the same manner. As these so-called generic characters have been inherited from before the period when the several species first branched off from their common progenitor -- and subsequently have not varied or come to differ in any degree, or only in a slight degree -- it is not probable that they should vary at the present day.
"On the other hand, the points in which species differ from other species of the same genus are called specific characters. As these specific characters have varied and come to differ since the period when the species branched off from a common progenitor, it is probable that they should still often be in some degree variable,- at least more variable than those parts of the organisation which have for a very long period remained constant."
Darwin is now coming up with ideas that obviously bothered those people believing in the Biblical story that each species was created individually. He describes a species as a "srongly marked and fixed variety." And that parts of their structure continue to vary. He then looks at it from another perspective saying that where there are similar structures in different species, that this is so because they all come from a common ancestor. He cannot see where Natural Selection would have caused similar changes in individually created species in exactly the same manner.
Robby
"I think it will be admitted by naturalists, without my entering on details, that secondary sexual characters are highly variable.
"It will also be admitted that species of the same group differ from each other more widely in their secondary sexual characters, than in other parts of their organisation.
"Compare, for instance, the amount of difference between the males of gallinaceous birds -- in which secondary sexual characters are strongly displayed -- with the amount of difference between the females.
"The cause of the original variability of these characters is not manifest.
"But we can see why they should not have been rendered as constant and uniform as others. They are accumulated by sexual selection -- which is less rigid in its action than ordinary selection, as it does not entail death -- but only gives fewer off-spring to the less favoured males.
"Whatever the cause may be of the variability of secondary sexual characters -- as they are highly variable -- sexual selection will have had a wide scope for action -- and may thus have succeeded in giving to the species of the same group a greater amount of difference in these than in other respects."
Your comments, please?
Robby
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Of this fact I will give in illustration the two first instances which happen to stand on my list. As the differences in these cases are of a very unusual nature, the relation can hardly be accidental.
"The same number of joints in the tarsi is a character common to very large groups of beetles. In the Engidoe, as Westwood has remarked, the number varies greatly. The number likewise differs in the two sexes of the same species.
"Again in the fossorial hymenoptera, the neuration of the wings is a character of the highest importance, because common to large groups. But in certain genera the neuration differs in the different species, and likewise in the two sexes of the same species.
"Sir J. Lubbock has recently remarked, that several minute crustaceans offer excellent illustrations of this law. 'In Pontella, for instance, the sexual characters are afforded mainly by the anterior antennae and by the fifth pair of legs: the specific differences also are principally given by these organs.'
"This relation has a clear meaning on my view. I look at all the species of the same genus as having as certainly descended from a common progenitor -- as have the two sexes of any one species.
"Consequently, whatever part of the structure of the common progenitor -- or of its early descendants -- became variable, variations of this part would -- it is highly probable -- be taken advantage of by natural and sexual selection -- in order to fit the several species to their several places in the economy of nature -- and likewise to fit the two sexes of the same species to each other -- or to fit the males to struggle with other males for the possession of the females."
I don't understand the various biological terms but Darwin's last sentence seems to sum it up. I believe tha Darwin is saying that Natural Selection takes advantage of any variation in order to help the two sexes interrelate with each other.
Robby
"All being mainly due to the species of the same group being the descendants of common progenitor, from whom they have inherited much in common -- to parts which have recently and largely varied being more likely still to go on varying than parts which have long been inherited and have not varied -- to natural selection having more or less completely, according to the lapse of time, overmastered the tendency to reversion and to further variability -- to sexual selection being less rigid than ordinary selection,- and to variations in the same parts having been accumulated by natural and sexual selection, and having been thus adapted for secondary sexual, and for ordinary purposes."
I got lost in that first sentence. It is a loo-loo. And the second is not much better. Anyone want to help me separate all those dependent clauses?
Robby
I'll be back later but am going out for a while to flaunt my crest.
Robby
"A Variety of one Species often assumes a Character proper to an Allied Species -- or reverts to some of the Characters of an early Progenitor.
"These propositions will be most readily understood by looking to our domestic races. The most distinct breeds of the pigeon -- in countries widely apart -- present sub-varieties with reversed feathers on the head, and with feathers on the feet,- characters not possessed by the aboriginal rock-pigeon.
"These then are analogous variations in two or more distinct races.
"The frequent presence of fourteen or even sixteen tail-feathers in the pouter may be considered as a variation representing the normal structure of another race, the fan-tail.
"I presume that no one will doubt that all such analogous variations are due to the several races of the pigeon having inherited from a common parent the same constitution and tendency to variation, when acted on by similar unknown influences.
"In the vegetable kingdom we have a case of analogous variation, in the enlarged stems -- or as commonly called roots -- of the Swedish turnip and Rutabaga, plants which several botanists rank as varieties produced by cultivation from a common parent.
"If this be not so, the case will then be one of analogous variation in two so-called distinct species. To these a third may be added, namely, the common turnip.
"According to the ordinary view of each species having been independently created, we should have to attribute this similarity in the enlarged stems of these three plants, not to the vera causa of community of descent -- and a consequent tendency to vary in a like manner -- but to three separate yet closely related acts of creation. Many similar cases of analogous variation have been observed by Naudin in the great gourd-family, and by various authors in our cereals.
"Similar cases occurring with insects under natural conditions have lately been discussed with much ability by Mr. Walsh, who has grouped them under his law of Equable Variability."
Again Darwin asks us to follow the logic -- if we can -- of the Biblical description of organisms being separate acts of creation. He gives us examples of plants which appear to be closely related to other species -- or closely similar to the ancestors of the plants. He sees different sub-breeds of pigeon as having come from the original rock pigeon. He sees the turnip and the rutabaga as having a common parent. He finds their similarity as being incomprehensible if they had been individually created.
Robby
"As all these marks are characteristic of the parent rock-pigeon, I presume that no one will doubt that this is a case of reversion, and not of a new yet analogous variation appearing in the several breeds.
"We may, I think, confidently come to this conclusion, because, as we have seen, these coloured marks are eminently liable to appear in the crossed offspring of two distinct and differently coloured breeds. In this case there is nothing in the external conditions of life to cause the reappearance of the slaty-blue, with the several marks, beyond the influence of the mere act of crossing on the laws of inheritance."
We have all seen pigeons in various cities and almost all of them seem the same -- slaty-blue with two black bars on the wings, white loins, a bar at the end of the tail. Shall we all agree with Darwin that this is a case of reversion, reflecting constant interbreeding and not an effect of the environment? Also of interest is the fact that we see these pigeons rarely in the countryside but instead in cities where there are many flat surfaces reminiscent of the rocks of the original Rock Pigeon.
Robby
Robby
"But when a breed has been crossed only once by some other breed, the offspring occasionally show for many generations a tendency to revert in character to the foreign breed- some say, for a dozen or even a score of generations.
"After twelve generations, the proportion of blood, to use a common expression, from one ancestor, is only 1 in 2048. Yet, as we see, it is generally believed that a tendency to reversion is retained by this remnant of foreign blood.
"In a breed which has not been crossed -- but in which both parents have lost some character which their progenitor possessed -- the tendency, whether strong or weak, to reproduce the lost character might -- as was formerly remarked, for all that we can see to the contrary -- be transmitted for almost any number of generations.
"When a character which has been lost in a breed, reappears after a great number of generations, the most probable hypothesis is -- not that one individual suddenly takes after an ancestor removed by some hundred generations -- but that in each successive generation the character in question has been lying latent, and at last -- under unknown favourable conditions -- is developed.
"With the barb-pigeon, for instance, which very rarely produces a blue bird, it is probable that there is a latent tendency in each generation to produce blue plumage.
"The abstract improbability of such a tendency being transmitted through a vast number of generations, is not greater than that of quite useless or rudimentary organs being similarly transmitted.
"A mere tendency to produce a rudiment is indeed sometimes thus inherited."
Reversion -- a most interesting topic. As Darwin puts it, "the character in question has been lying latent."
Robby
I thought reversion was due to two recessive genes coming together.
Robby
However, it is very difficult to say what reversion actually is without any reference to modern genetics. That is one reason I have been staying out of this discussion recently.
Robby
"But characters exclusively due to analogous variation would probably be of an unimportant nature. The preservation of all functionally important characters will have been determined through natural selection, in accordance with the different habits of the species.
"It might further be expected that the species of the same genus would occasionally exhibit reversions to long lost characters.
"As, however, we do not know the common ancestors of any natural group, we cannot distinguish between reversionary and analogous characters.
"If, for instance, we did not know that the parent rock-pigeon was not feather-footed or turn-crowned, we could not have told, whether such characters in our domestic breeds were reversions or only analogous variations. We might have inferred that the blue colour was a case of reversion from the number of the markings, which are correlated with this tint, and which would not probably have all appeared together from simple variation.
"More especially we might have inferred this, from the blue colour and the several marks so often appearing when differently coloured breeds are crossed.
"Hence, although under nature it must generally be left doubtful, what cases are reversions to formerly existing characters, and what are new but analogous variations -- yet we ought, on our theory, sometimes to find the varying offspring of a species assuming characters which are already present in other members of the same group.
"This undoubtedly is the case."
Lots of inferring going on here. Darwin acknowledges that it is a theory.
Robby
"A considerable catalogue, also, could be given of forms intermediate between two other forms, which themselves can only doubtfully be ranked as species. This shows, unless all these closely allied forms be considered as independently created species, that they have in varying assumed some of the characters of the others.
"But the best evidence of analogous variations is afforded by parts or organs which are generally constant in character -- but which occasionally vary so as to resemble, in some degree, the same part or organ in an allied species.
"I have collected a long list of such cases. But here, as before, I lie under the great disadvantage of not being able to give them.
"I can only repeat that such cases certainly occur, and seem to me very remarkable."
What I am catching here is that Darwin sees so many similarities that he finds it difficulty to separate specie from specie or between the varieties which lead to the species. Is that what you folks see?
Robby
Robby
"It is a case almost certainly of reversion. The ass sometimes has very distinct transverse bars on its legs, like those on the legs of the zebra. It has been asserted that these are plainest in the foal, and, from inquiries which I have made, I believe this to be true.
"The stripe on the shoulder is sometimes double, and is very variable in length and outline. A white ass, but not an albino, has been described without either spinal or shoulder stripe. These stripes are sometimes very obscure, or actually quite lost, in dark-coloured asses.
"The koulan of Pallas is said to have been seen with a double shoulder-stripe. Mr. Blyth has seen a specimen of the hemionus with a distinct shoulder-stripe, though it properly has none. I have been informed by Colonel Poole that the foals of this species are generally striped on the legs, and faintly on the shoulder.
"The quagga, though so plainly barred like a zebra over the body, is without bars on the legs; but Dr. Gray has figured one specimen with very distinct zebra-like bars on the hocks."
Any comments?
Robby
Robby
"Transverse bars on the legs are not rare in duns, mouse-duns, and in one instance in a chestnut a faint shoulder-stripe may sometimes be seen in duns. I have seen a trace in a bay horse.
"My son made a careful examination and sketch for me of a dun Belgian cart-horse with a double stripe on each shoulder and with leg-stripes. I have myself seen a dun Devonshire pony, and a small dun Welsh pony has been carefully described to me, both with three parallel stripes on each shoulder."
Comments about horses?
Robby
"The spine is always striped. The legs are generally barred. The shoulder-stripe, which is sometimes double and sometimes treble, is common. The side of the face, moreover, is sometimes striped.
"The stripes are often plainest in the foal and sometimes quite disappear in old horses.
"Colonel Poole has seen both gray and bay kattywar horses striped when first foaled. I have also reason to suspect -- from information given me by Mr. W. W. Edwards -- that with the English race-horse the spinal stripe is much commoner in the foal than in the fullgrown animal.
"I have myself recently bred a foal from a bay mare (offspring of a Turkoman horse and a Flemish mare) by a bay English race-horse. This foal when a week old was marked on its hinder quarters and on its forehead with numerous, very narrow, dark, zebra-like bars, and its legs were feebly striped. All the stripes soon disappeared completely.
"Without here entering on further details, I may state that I have collected cases of leg and shoulder stripes in horses of very different breeds in various countries from Britain to eastern China -- and from Norway in the north to the Malay Archipelago in the south.
"In all parts of the world these stripes occur far oftenest in duns and mouse-duns. By the term dun a large range of colour is included, from one between brown and black to a close approach to cream-colour."
This paragraph speaks for itself. Any comments?
Robby
"But this view may be safely rejected. It is highly improbable that the heavy Belgian cart-horse, Welsh ponies, Norwegian cobs, the lanky kattywar race, &c., inhabiting the most distant parts of the world, should all have been crossed with one supposed aboriginal stock.
"Now let us turn to the effects of crossing the several species of the horse-genus.
"Rollin asserts, that the common mule from the ass and horse is particularly apt to have bars on its legs. According to Mr. Gosse, in certain parts of the United States about nine out of ten mules have striped legs.
"I once saw a mule with its legs so much striped that any one might have thought that it was a hybrid-zebra. Mr. W. C. Martin, in his excellent treatise on the horse, has given a figure of a similar mule.
"In four coloured drawings, which I have seen -- of hybrids between the ass and zebra -- the legs were much more plainly barred than the rest of the body. In one of them there was a double shoulder-stripe.
"In Lord Morton's famous hybrid -- from a chestnut mare and male quagga -- the hybrid, and even the pure offspring subsequently produced from the same mare by a black Arabian sire, were much more plainly barred across the legs than is even the pure quagga.
"Lastly, and this is another most remarkable case, a hybrid has been figured by Dr. Gray (and he informs me that he knows of a second case) from the ass and the hemionus. This hybrid -- though the ass only occasionally has stripes on its legs and the hemionus has none and has not even a shoulder-stripe -- nevertheless had all four legs barred, and had three short shoulder-stripes, like those on the dun Devonshire and Welsh ponies, and even had some zebra-like stripes on the sides of its face.
"With respect to this last fact, I was so convinced that not even a stripe of colour appears from what is commonly called chance -- that I was led solely from the occurrence of the face-stripes on this hybrid from the ass and hemionus to ask Colonel Poole whether such face-stripes ever occurred in the eminently striped kattywar breed of horses -- and was, as we have seen, answered in the affirmative."
This paragraph gives examples. Any comments?
Robby
"We see several distinct species of the horse-genus becoming, by simple variation, striped on the legs like a zebra, or striped on the shoulders like an ass.
"In the horse we see this tendency strong whenever a dun tint appears- a tint which approaches to that of the general colouring of the other species of the genus. The appearance of the stripes is not accompanied by any change of form or by any other new character.
"We see this tendency to become striped most strongly displayed in hybrids from between several of the most distinct species.
"Now observe the case of the several breeds of pigeons. They are descended from a pigeon -- including two or three sub-species or geographical races -- of bluish colour, with certain bars and other marks. When any breed assumes by simple variation a bluish tint, these bars and other marks invariably reappear -- but without any other change of form or character.
"When the oldest and truest breeds of various colours are crossed, we see a strong tendency for the blue tint and bars and marks to reappear in the mongrels.
"I have stated that the most probable hypothesis to account for the reappearance of very ancient characters, is -- that there is a tendency in the young of each successive generation to produce the long-lost character. That this tendency -- from unknown causes -- sometimes prevails. And we have just seen that in several species of the horse-genus the stripes are either plainer or appear more commonly in the young than in the old.
"Call the breeds of pigeons, some of which have bred true for centuries, species. How exactly parallel is the case with that of the species of the horse-genus!
"For myself, I venture confidently to look back thousands on thousands of generations. I see an animal striped like a zebra, but perhaps otherwise very differently constructed, the common parent of our domestic horse -- whether or not it be descended from one or more wild stocks -- of the ass, the hemionus, quagga, and zebra."
Darwin asks -- "What are we to say to these several facts? What do you think?
Robby
Robby
"Not in one case out of a hundred can we pretend to assign any reason why this or that part has varied. But whenever we have the means of instituting a comparison -- the same laws appear to have acted in producing the lesser differences between varieties of the same species -- and the greater differences between species of the same genus.
"Changed conditions generally induce mere fluctuating variability. Sometimes they cause direct and definite effects. These may become strongly marked in the course of time, though we have not sufficient evidence on this head.
"Habit in producing constitutional peculiarities and use in strengthening and disuse in weakening and diminishing organs, appear in many cases to have been potent in their effects.
"Homologous parts tend to vary in the same manner. Homologous parts tend to cohere.
"Modifications in hard parts and in external parts sometimes affect softer and internal parts.
"When one part is largely developed, perhaps it tends to draw nourishment from the adjoining parts. Every part of the structure which can be saved without detriment will be saved.
"Changes of structure at an early age may affect parts subsequently developed. Many cases of correlated variation, the nature of which we are unable to understand, undoubtedly occur.
"Multiple parts are variable in number and in structure, perhaps arising from such parts not having been closely specialised for any particular function. Their modifications have not been closely checked by natural selection.
"It follows probably from this same cause, that organic beings low in the scale are more variable than those standing higher in the scale -- and which have their whole organisation more specialised.
"Rudimentary organs, from being useless, are not regulated by natural selection, and hence are variable.
"Specific characters -- that is, the characters which have come to differ since the several species of the same genus branched off from a common parent -- are more variable than generic characters -- or those which have long been inherited, and have not differed from this same period.
"In these remarks we have referred to special parts or organs being still variable, because they have recently varied and thus come to differ. We have also seen in the second chapter that the same principle applies to the whole individual. In a district where many species of a genus are found- that is, where there has been much former variation and differentiation -- or where the manufactory of new specific forms has been actively at work -- in that district and amongst these species, we now find, on an average, most varieties.
"Secondary sexual characters are highly variable, and such characters differ much in the species of the same group.
"Variability in the same parts of the organisation has generally been taken advantage of in giving secondary sexual differences to the two sexes of the same species, and specific differences to the several species of the same genus.
"Any part or organ developed to an extraordinary size or in an extraordinary manner -- in comparison with the same part or organ in the allied species -- must have gone through an extraordinary amount of modification since the genus arose.
"Thus we can understand why it should often still be variable in a much higher degree than other parts. Variation is a long-continued and slow process.
"Natural selection will in such cases not as yet have had time to overcome the tendency to further variability and to reversion to a less modified state.
"But when a species with any extraordinarily-developed organ has become the parent of many modified descendants -- which on our view must be a very slow process, requiring long lapse of time -- in this case, natural selection has succeeded in giving a fixed character to the organ -- in however extraordinary a manner it may have been developed.
"Species inheriting nearly the same constitution from a common parent -- and exposed to similar influences -- naturally tend to present analogous variations, or these same species may occasionally revert to some of the characters of their ancient progenitors.
"Although new and important modifications may not arise from reversion and analogous variation, such modifications will add to the beautiful and harmonious diversity of nature."
Darwin speaks like a good naturalist or a good scientist. He acknowledges that he is ignorant about many things. Almost every research conclusion ends with the comment: "More research is suggested." But he does see certain bits of evidence happening over and over again and comes to the conclusion that there must be a meaning here somewhere. "He points out that every part which can be saved without detriment is saved. "He points out that structures which are changed when the organism is young affects later development. "He points out that organisms lower in the scale become more easily variable. He points out that secondary sexual characteristics are highly variable. He ends by saying that variable is a long-continued and slow process. Perhaps this, more than anything else, is his message. What he is telling us in a few minutes takes thousands if not millions of years.
Robby
"Whatever the cause may be of each slight difference between the offspring and their parents- and a cause for each must exist- we have reason to believe that it is the steady accumulation of beneficial differences which has given rise to all the more important modifications of structure in relation to the habits of each species.
What is your reaction to this chapter which was entitled "Laws of Variation."
Robby
Difficulties of the Theory
"Some of them are so serious that to this day I can hardly reflect on them without being in some degree staggered. To the best of my judgment, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to the theory.
"These difficulties and objections may be classed under the following heads:- First, why, if species have descended from other species by fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?
"Secondly, is it possible that an animal having, for instance, the structure and habits of a bat, could have been formed by the modification of some other animal with widely different habits and structure? Can we believe that natural selection could produce, on the one hand, an organ of trifling importance, such as the tail of a giraffe, which serves as a fly-flapper, and, on the other hand, an organ so wonderful as the eye?
"Thirdly, can instincts be acquired and modified through natural selection? What shall we say to the instinct which leads the bee to make cells, and which has practically anticipated the discoveries of profound mathematicians?
"Fourthly, how can we account for species, when crossed, being sterile and producing sterile offspring, whereas, when varieties are crossed, their fertility is unimpaired? The two first heads will here be discussed; some miscellaneous objections in the following chapter; Instinct and Hybridism in the two succeeding chapters."
We will pause a bit to read this section as it is explained in detail in the following paragraphs.
Robby
"Thus extinction and natural selection go hand in hand.
"Hence, if we look at each species as descended from some unknown form, both the parent and all the transitional varieties will generally have been exterminated by the very process of the formation and perfection of the new form.
"But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?
"It will be more convenient to discuss this question in the chapter on the Imperfection of the Geological Record. I will here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed.
"The crust of the earth is a vast museum. But the natural connections have been imperfectly made, and only at long intervals of time."
This is the way I understand this. Natural selection chooses only those variations which benefit the organism. Because the previous variation was less beneficial, it died. As Darwin says: "Extinction and Natural Selection go hand in hand." As we look at a specific specie, we realize that its ancestor was less developed, but we have no example of that because it died. However, he says, it would seem that there should be somewhere the fossils of these ancestors. Why, then, don't we find them? Darwin answers his own question by stating that the planet (thinking of it as a museum) is vast and the period of time over which these variations changed occurred in millions of years. The odds, therefore, are small that we should find them.
Robby
I had always been taught that Darwin believed that natural selection benefits the species. An individual plant or animals does not matter in natural selection. Organism (singular) is used by most biologists to mean
one plant or one animal.
Are we on the same wave length here?
Robby
"Let us take a simple case. In travelling from north to south over a continent, we generally meet at successive intervals with closely allied or representative species, evidently filling nearly the same place in the natural economy of the land.
"These representative species often meet and interlock. As the one becomes rarer and rarer, the other becomes more and more frequent, till the one replaces the other.
"But if we compare these species where they intermingle, they are generally as absolutely distinct from each other in every detail of structure as are specimens taken from the metropolis inhabited by each.
"By my theory these allied species are descended from a common parent. During the process of modification, each has become adapted to the conditions of life of its own region, and has supplanted and exterminated its original parent-form and all the transitional varieties between its past and present states.
"Hence we ought not to expect at the present time to meet with numerous transitional varieties in each region -- though they must have existed there -- and may be embedded there in a fossil condition.
"But in the intermediate region, having intermediate conditions of life, why do we not now find closely-linking intermediate varieties? This difficulty for a long time quite confounded me. But I think it can be in large part explained."
Any comments here?
Robby
A specie has a slight change (variety) which then has a further change (another variety) and on and on over time until someone calls them a new specie.
Robby
"Geology would lead us to believe that most continents have been broken up into islands even during the later tertiary periods. In such islands distinct species might have been separately formed without the possibility of intermediate varieties existing in the intermediate zones.
"By changes in the form of the land and of climate, marine areas now continuous must often have existed within recent times in a far less continuous and uniform condition than at present.
"But I will pass over this way of escaping from the difficulty. I believe that many perfectly defined species have been formed on strictly continuous areas.
"Although I do not doubt that the formerly broken condition of areas now continuous, has played an important part in the formation of new species, more especially with freely-crossing and wandering animals."
I can see where more and more Darwin is going to get us into the field of geology.
Robby
"Hence the neutral territory between two representative species is generally narrow in comparison with the territory proper to each.
"We see the same fact in ascending mountains, and sometimes it is quite remarkable how abruptly -- as Alph. de Candolle has observed -- a common alpine species disappears.
"The same fact has been noticed by E. Forbes in sounding the depths of the sea with the dredge.
"To those who look at climate and the physical conditions of life as the all-important elements of distribution, these facts ought to cause surprise, as climate and height or depth graduate away insensibly.
"But when we bear in mind that almost every species -- even in its metropolis -- would increase immensely in numbers, were it not for other competing species. Nearly all either prey on or serve as prey for others. Each organic being is either directly or indirectly related in the most important manner to other organic beings.
"We see that the range of the inhabitants of any country by no means exclusively depends on insensibly changing physical conditions, but in a large part on the presence of other species -- on which it lives, or by which it is destroyed -- or with which it comes into competition.
"As these species are already defined objects, not blending one into another by insensible gradations, the range of any one species -- depending as does on the range of others -- will tend to be sharply defined.
"Moreover, each species on the confines of its range, where it exists in lessened numbers, will -- during fluctuations in the number of its enemies or of its prey, or in the nature of the seasons -- be extremely liable to utter extermination. Thus its geographical range will come to be still more sharply defined."
Let me see if I get this. There are large territories where the same specie exists. One territory might have one kind of specie, another territory another kind of specie. The "neutral" spaces between the territories are much smaller than the large specie territories. Darwin adds that the numbers of distinct species, e.g. wolves and deer that continue to exist depend on competing species which either prey upon them or themselves become prey. Those species which are on the periphery of its territory, e.g. those deer which stray from the herd, are more susceptible to being killed. This, then, defines more exactly where the main herd is, i.e. where their territory is.
Robby
"Professor Adam Sedgwick was the Woodwardian Professor of Geology at Cambridge University ... one of the most renowned geologists in all of England. Darwin was introduced to Sedgwick by Henslow during his third year at Cambridge after Darwin expressed an interest in exploring the Canary Islands. In spring of ... 1831 Darwin attended many of Sedgwick's geology lectures and ... found them most enjoyable. Seeing that a knowledge of field geology would benefit Darwin on his Canary Island excursion, Sedgwick and Darwin went on a geological tour of North Wales during the summer of 1831. The knowledge Darwin gained from Sedgwick turned out to be of invaluable use during his voyage around the world on the Beagle.
Here's the link: Darwin's Life
"If we take a varying species inhabiting a very large area, we shall have to adapt two varieties to two large areas, and a third variety to a narrow intermediate zone.
"The intermediate variety, consequently, will exist in lesser numbers from inhabiting a narrow and lesser area. Practically, as far as I can make out, this rule holds good with varieties in a state of nature.
"I have met with striking instances of the rule in the case of varieties intermediate between well-marked varieties in the genus Balanus.
"It would appear from information given me by Mr. Watson, Dr. Asa Gray, and Mr. Wollaston, that generally, when varieties intermediate between two other forms occur, they are much rarer numerically than the forms which they connect.
"Now, if we may trust these facts and inferences -- and conclude that varieties linking two other varieties together generally have existed in lesser numbers than the forms which they connect -- then we can understand why intermediate varieties should not endure for very long periods -- why, as a general rule, they should be exterminated and disappear, sooner than the forms which they originally linked together."
Darwin starts off with the comment that varieties do not differ substantially from species. (After all, they are merely intermediate organsims between species.) He asks us to paint a picture in our heads. Here are two large areas with each one supporting a variety. In between them is a narrow area also supporting a variety. Because the third variety has a smaller area, there are less of them. However, this third variety in a sense links the other two. And because there are less of them, they die faster and we do not see them many eons later.
Robby
"But it is a far more important consideration -- that during the process of further modification, by which two varieties are supposed to be converted and perfected into two distinct species -- the two which exist in larger numbers, from inhabiting larger areas, will have a great advantage over the intermediate variety -- which exists in smaller numbers in a narrow and intermediate zone.
"For forms existing in larger numbers will have a better chance, within any given period, of presenting further favourable variations for natural selection to seize on, than will the rarer forms which exist in lesser numbers.
"Hence, the more common forms, in the race for life, will tend to beat and supplant the less common forms. These will be more slowly modified and improved.
"It is the same principle which, as I believe, accounts for the common species in each country presenting on an average a greater number of well-marked varieties than do the rarer species.
"I may illustrate what I mean by supposing three varieties of sheep to be kept -- one adapted to an extensive mountainous region -- a second to a comparatively narrow, hilly tract -- and a third to the wide plains at the base. The inhabitants are all trying with equal steadiness and skill to improve their stocks by selection.
"The chances in this case will be strongly in favour of the great holders on the mountains or on the plains, improving their breeds more quickly than the small holders on the intermediate narrow, hilly tract.
"Consequently the improved mountain or plain breed will soon take the place of the less improved hill breed. Thus the two breeds, which originally existed in greater numbers, will come into close contact with each other, without the interposition of the supplanted, intermediate hill variety."
What I understand is that if there are less of a particular variety, they will be more easily exterminated. Darwin gives as an example two large areas, mountains and plains, each with large numbers of a variety of sheep. In between is a small hilly area with less numbers of sheep. The larger numbers of the mountain or plains sheep will gradually improve and the lesser numbers of the hilly sheep will gradually die. There being no more hill sheep, the mountain and plains sheep will come in contact with each other.
Robby
"First, because new varieties are very slowly formed, for variation is a slow process.
"Natural selection can do nothing until favourable individual differences or variations occur -- and until a place in the natural polity of the country can be better filled by some modification of some one or more of its inhabitants.
"And such new places will depend on slow changes of climate -- or on the occasional immigration of new inhabitants -- and, probably, in a still more important degree, on some of the old inhabitants becoming slowly modified, with the new forms thus produced -- and the old ones acting and reacting on each other.
"So that, in any one region and at any one time, we ought to see only a few species presenting slight modifications of structure in some degree permanent. This assuredly we do see."
Darwin is telling us, I believe, that there is no doubt when a variation becomes a specie.
Robby
"Many forms, more especially amongst the classes which unite for each birth and wander much, may have separately been rendered sufficiently distinct to rank as representative species.
"In this, case, intermediate varieties between the several representative species and their common parent, must formerly have existed within each isolated portion of the land.
"But these links during the process of natural selection will have been supplanted and exterminated, so that they will no longer be found in a living state."
Comments?
Robby
"These intermediate varieties will, from reasons already assigned -- namely from what we know of the actual distribution of closely allied or representative species, and likewise of acknowledged varieties -- exist in the intermediate zones in lesser numbers than the varieties which they tend to connect.
"From this cause alone the intermediate varieties will be liable to accidental extermination; and during the process of further modification through natural selection.
"They will almost certainly be beaten and supplanted by the forms which they connect. For these from existing in greater numbers will, in the aggregate, present more varieties, and thus be further improved through natural selection and gain further advantages."
What I get from this is, very simply, the less number of organisms there are, the more likely the variety will die. Yes? No?
Robby
Robby
"It would be easy to show that there now exist carnivorous animals presenting close intermediate grades from strictly terrestrial to aquatic habits. As each exists by a struggle for life, it is clear that each must be well adapted to its place in nature.
"Look at the Mustela vision of North America, which has webbed feet, and which resembles an otter in its fur, short legs, and form of tail. During the summer this animal dives for and preys on fish, but during the long winter it leaves the frozen waters, and preys, like other pole-cats, on mice and land animals.
"If a different case had been taken, and it had been asked how an insectivorous quadruped could possibly have been converted into a flying bat, the question would have been far more difficult to answer. Yet I think such difficulties have little weight.
Any comments on organisms which are both aquatic and terrestrial?
Robby
"Here we have the finest gradation from animals with their tails only slightly flattened -- and from others, as Sir J. Richardson has remarked, with the posterior part of their bodies rather wide and with the skin on their flanks rather full -- to the so-called flying squirrels. Flying squirrels have their limbs and even the base of the tail united by a broad expanse of skin, which serves as a parachute and allows them to glide through the air to an astonishing distance from tree to tree.
"We cannot doubt that each structure is of use to each kind of squirrel in its own country, by enabling it to escape birds or beasts of prey -- to collect food more quickly -- or, as there is reason to believe, to lessen the danger from occasional falls.
"But it does not follow from this fact that the structure of each squirrel is the best that it is possible to conceive under all possible conditions.
"Let the climate and vegetation change, let other competing rodents or new beasts of prey immigrate, or old ones become modified, and all analogy would lead us to believe that some at least of the squirrels would decrease in numbers or become exterminated, unless they also become modified and improved in structure in a corresponding manner.
"Therefore, I can see no difficulty, more especially under changing conditions of life, in the continued preservation of individuals with fuller and fuller flank membranes -- each modification being useful, each being propagated, until -- by the accumulated effects of this process of natural selection -- a perfect so-called flying squirrel was produced."
I believe that Darwin is saying here that changes which are beneficial continue through the process of natural selection.
Robby
"An extremely wide flank membrane stretches from the corners of the jaw to the tail, and includes the limbs with the elongated fingers. This flank-membrane is furnished with an extensor muscle.
"Although no graduated links of structure -- fitted for gliding through the air -- now connect the Galeopithecus with the other Insectivora, yet there is no difficulty in supposing that such links formerly existed -- and that each was developed in the same manner as with the less perfectly gliding squirrels -- each grade of structure having been useful to its possessor.
"Nor can I see any insuperable difficulty in further believing that the membrane connected fingers and fore-arm of the Galeopithecus might have been greatly lengthened by natural selection. This, as far as the organs of flight are concerned, would have converted the animal into a bat.
"In certain bats in which the wing-membrane extends from the top of the shoulder to the tail and includes the hind-legs, we perhaps see traces of an apparatus originally fitted for gliding through the air rather than for flight."
Comments, please?
Robby
"Yet the structure of each of these birds is good for it, under the conditions of life to which it is exposed, for each has to live by a struggle.
"But it is not necessarily the best possible under all possible conditions. It must not be inferred from these remarks that any of the grades of wing-structure here alluded to -- which perhaps may all be the result of disuse -- indicate the steps by which birds actually acquired their perfect power of flight. But they serve to show what diversified means of transition are at least possible.
"Seeing that a few members of such water-breathing classes as the Crustacea and Mollusca are adapted to live on the land -- and seeing that we have flying birds and mammals -- flying insects of the most diversified types -- and formerly had flying reptiles, it is conceivable that flying-fish, which now glide far through the air, slightly rising and turning by the aid of their fluttering fins, might have been modified into perfectly winged animals.
"If this had been effected, who would have ever imagined that in an early transitional state they had been the inhabitants of the open ocean, and had used their incipient organs of flight exclusively, as far as we know, to escape being devoured by other fish?"
When we think about it, there are some amazing creatures on this planet. The key phrase, as I see it, that Darwin uses is that these "odd" modifications come about due to "the conditions of life to which it is exposed." Environment is apparently extremely important. And now - consider the fact that global warming which is caused by human beings is changing the environment. How will this affect the creatures of today as the hundreds and thousands of years pass?
Robby
"Furthermore, we may conclude that transitional states between structures fitted for very different habits of life will rarely have been developed at an early period in great numbers and under many subordinate forms.
"Thus, to return to our imaginary illustration of the flying-fish -- it does not seem probable that fishes capable of true flight would have been developed under many subordinate forms, for taking prey of many kinds in many ways, on the land and in the water -- until their organs of flight had come to a high stage of perfection, so as to have given them a decided advantage over other animals in the battle for life.
"Hence the chance of discovering species with transitional grades of structure in a fossil condition will always be less, from their having existed in lesser numbers, than in the case of species with fully developed structures."
If I get this, Darwin is saying that natural selection constantly leads organisms to greater and greater perfection. Because there are smaller amounts of transitional periods as they lead toward perfection, there would be less fossils for us to find. Yes? No?
Robby
"In either case it would be easy for natural selection to adapt the structure of the animal to its changed habits, or exclusively to one of its several habits.
"It is, however, difficult to decide, and immaterial for us, whether habits generally change first and structure afterwards -- or whether slight modifications of structure lead to changed habits -- both probably often occurring almost simultaneously.
"Of cases of changed habits it will suffice merely to allude to that of the many British insects which now feed on exotic plants, or exclusively on artificial substances.
"Of diversified habits innumerable instances could be given. I have often watched a tyrant flycatcher (Saurophagus sulphuratus) in South America, hovering over one spot and then proceeding to another, like a kestrel -- and at other times standing stationary on the margin of water, and then dashing into it like a kingfisher at a fish.
"In our own country the larger titmouse (Parus major) may be seen climbing branches, almost like a creeper. It sometimes, like a shrike, kills small birds by blows on the head. I have many times seen and heard it hammering the seeds of the yew on a branch, and thus breaking them like a nuthatch.
"In North America the black bear was seen by Hearne swimming for hours with widely open mouth, thus catching, almost like a whale, insects in the water."
What changes first -- habits or structure?
Robby
"And such instances occur in nature.
"Can a more striking instance of adaptation be given than that of a woodpecker for climbing trees and seizing insects in the chinks of the bark? Yet in North America there are woodpeckers which feed largely on fruit, and others with elongated wings which chase insects on the wing.
"On the plains of La Plata, where hardly a tree grows, there is a woodpecker (Colaptes campestris) which has two toes before and two behind, a long pointed tongue, pointed tail-feathers, sufficiently stiff to support the bird in a vertical position on a post, but not so stiff as in the typical woodpeckers, and a straight strong beak.
"The beak, however, is not so straight or so strong as in the typical woodpeckers, but it is strong enough to bore into wood. Hence this Colaptes in all the essential parts of its structure is a woodpecker. Even in such trifling characters as the colouring, the harsh tone of the voice, and undulatory flight, its close blood-relationship to our common woodpecker is plainly declared.
"Yet, as I can assert, not only from my own observation, but from those of the accurate Azara, in certain large districts it does not climb trees, and it makes its nest in holes in banks!
"In certain other districts, however, this same woodpecker, as Mr. Hudson states, frequents trees, and bores holes in the trunk for its nest.
"I may mention as another illustration of the varied habits of this genus, that a Mexican Colaptes has been described by De Saussure as boring holes into hard wood in order to lay up a store of acorns."
Comments, please?
Robby
"What can be plainer than that the webbed feet of ducks and geese are formed for swimming? Yet there are upland geese with webbed feet which rarely go near the water.
"No one except Audubon has seen the frigate-bird, which has all its four toes webbed, alight on the surface of the ocean.
"On the other hand, grebes and coots are eminently aquatic, although their toes are only bordered by membrane.
"What seems plainer than that the long toes, not furnished with membrane, of the Grallatores are formed for walking over swamps and floating plants? The water-hen and landrail are members of this order, yet the first is nearly as aquatic as the coot, and the second nearly as terrestrial as the quail or partridge.
"In such cases, and many others could be given, habits have changed without a corresponding change of structure.
"The webbed feet of the upland goose may be said to have become almost rudimentary in function, though not in structure. In the frigate-bird, the deeply scooped membrane between the toes shows that structure has begun to change."
Do the habits of animals change even while their structure remains the same? Could that be true for human beings?
Robby
"But this seems to me only re-stating the fact in dignified language.
"He who believes in the struggle for existence and in the principle of natural selection, will acknowledge that every organic being is constantly endeavouring to increase in numbers. If any one being varies ever so little -- either in habits or structure, and thus gains an advantage over some other inhabitant of the same country -- it will seize on the place of that inhabitant, however different that may be from its own place.
"Hence it will cause him no surprise that there should be geese and frigatebirds with webbed feet, living on the dry land and rarely alighting on the water -- that there should be long-toed corncrakes, living in meadows instead of in swamps -- that there should be woodpeckers where hardly a tree grows -- that there should be diving thrushes and diving Hymenoptera, and petrels with the habits of auks."
Darwin is treading on dangerous ground here, isn't he?
Robby
"When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false. The old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science.
"Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist -- each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certainly the case -- if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life -- then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection -- though insuperable by our imagination -- should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
"How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself originated. But I may remark that -- as some of the lowest organisms, in which nerves cannot be detected -- are capable of perceiving light, it does not seem impossible that certain sensitive elements in their sarcode should become aggregated and developed into nerves, endowed with this special sensibility."
What does your reason tell you?
Robby
"But this is scarcely ever possible, and we are forced to look to other species and genera of the same group -- that is to the collateral descendants from the same parent-form -- in order to see what gradations are possible -- and for the chance of some gradations having been transmitted in an unaltered or little altered condition.
"But the state of the same organ in distinct classes may incidentally throw light on the steps by which it has been perfected.
The simplest organ which can be called an eye consists of an optic nerve, surrounded by pigment-cells, and covered by translucent skin, but without any lens or other refractive body.
"We may, however, according to M. Jourdain, descend even a step lower and find aggregates of pigment-cells -- apparently serving as organs of vision, without any nerves -- and resting merely on sarcodic tissue.
"Eyes of the above simple nature are not capable of distinct vision, and serve only to distinguish light from darkness.
"In certain star-fishes, small depressions in the layer of pigment which surrounds the nerve are filled, as described by the author just quoted, with transparent gelatinous matter, projecting with a convex surface, like the cornea in the higher animals. He suggests that this serves not to form an image, but only to concentrate the luminous rays and render their perception more easy.
"In this concentration of the rays we gain the first and by far the most important step towards the formation of a true, picture-forming eye. We have only to place the naked extremity of the optic nerve -- which in some of the lower animals lies deeply buried in the body -- and in some near the surface, at the right distance from the concentrating apparatus, and an image will be formed on it."
Any comments about the eye?
Robby
"With insects it is now known that the numerous facets on the cornea of their great compound eyes form true lenses, and that the cones include curiously modified nervous filaments.
"But these organs in the Articulata are so much diversified that Muller formerly made three main classes with seven subdivisions, besides a fourth main class of aggregated simple eyes.
"When we reflect on these facts -- here given much too briefly, with respect to the wide, diversified, and graduated range of structure in the eyes of the lower animals -- and when we bear in mind how small the number of all living forms must be in comparison with those which have become extinct -- the difficulty ceases to be very great in believing that natural selection may have converted the simple apparatus of an optic nerve -- coated with pigment and invested by transparent membrane -- into an optical instrument as perfect as is possessed by any member of the articulate class."
Anyone interested in the eye?
Robby
"He ought to admit that a structure even as perfect as an eagle's eye might thus be formed, although in this case he does not know the transitional states.
"It has been objected that in order to modify the eye and still preserve it as a perfect instrument, many changes would have to be effected simultaneously, which, it is assumed, could not be done through natural selection. But as I have attempted to show in my work on the variation of domestic animals, it is not necessary to suppose that the modifications were all simultaneous, if they were extremely slight and gradual.
"Different kinds of modification would, also, serve for the same general purpose: as Mr. Wallace has remarked, "if a lens has too short or too long a focus, it may be amended either by an alteration of curvature, or an alteration of density. If the curvature be irregular, and the rays do not converge to a point, then any increased regularity of curvature will be an improvement.
"So the contraction of the iris and the muscular movements of the eye are neither of them essential to vision, but only improvements which might have been added and perfected at any stage of the construction of the instrument."
"Within the highest division of the animal kingdom -- namely, the Vertebrata -- we can start from an eye so simple, that it consists -- as in the lancelet -- of a little sack of transparent skin, furnished with a nerve and lined with pigment, but destitute of any other apparatus.
"In fishes and reptiles, as Owen has remarked, "the range of gradations of dioptric structures is very great."
"It is a significant fact that even in man -- according to the high authority of Virchow -- the beautiful crystalline lens is formed in the embryo by an accumulation of epidermic cells, lying in a sack-like fold of the skin. The vitreous body is formed from embryonic sub-cutaneous tissue.
"To arrive, however, at a just conclusion regarding the formation of the eye, with all its marvellous yet not absolutely perfect characters, it is indispensable that the reason should conquer the imagination. I have felt the difficulty far too keenly to be surprised at others hesitating to extend the principle of natural selection to so startling a length."
In this paragraph Darwin is quizzing the reader. He is asking: "Can you now doubt that no matter how complicated the structure of an organism may be, that it can come into being through natural selection?" Any disbelievers or doubters here?
Robby
"We know that this instrument has been perfected by the long-continued efforts of the highest human intellects; and we naturally infer that the eye has been formed by a somewhat analogous process. But may not this inference be presumptuous?
"Have we any right to assume that the Creator works by intellectual powers like those of man? If we must compare the eye to an optical instrument, we ought in imagination to take a thick layer of transparent tissue -- with spaces filled with fluid -- and with a nerve sensitive to light beneath -- and then suppose every part of this layer to be continually changing slowly in density -- so as to separate into layers of different densities and thicknesses -- placed at different distances from each other -- and with the surfaces of each layer slowly changing in form.
"Further we must suppose that there is a power, represented by natural selection or the survival of the fittest -- always intently watching each slight alteration in the transparent layers -- and carefully preserving each which, under varied circumstances, in any way or in any degree, tends to produce a distincter image.
"We must suppose each new state of the instrument to be multiplied by the million -- each to be preserved until a better one is produced, and then the old ones to be all destroyed.
"In living bodies, variation will cause the slight alterations -- generation will multiply them almost infinitely -- and natural selection will pick out with unerring skill each improvement.
"Let this process go on for millions of years -- and during each year on millions of individuals of many kinds. May we not believe that a living optical instrument might thus be formed as superior to one of glass, as the works of the Creator are to those of man?"
What are your thoughts about this?
Robby
I hope that those of you still with us (even lurkers!) will add a comment or two, and I urge everyone to continue to pretend that we are living in the time of Darwin and know nothing about genes, DNA, or anything else from the 20th-21st century.
When I return, we will begin Darwin's next section which is "Modes of Transition."
Robby
"Surprising as it may seem, there was little sustained opposition to Darwin's book (The Origin of Species) on the grounds that it directly challenged the account of creation in Genesis. Learned biblical study since the Enlightenment had encouraged Christians increasingly to regard the early stories as potent metaphors rather than literal accounts. The real challenge of Darwinism for Victorians was that it turned life into an amoral chaos displaying no evidence of a divine authority or any sense of purpose or design."
Original spin
Robby
"No doubt many organs exist of which we do not know the transitional grades, more especially if we look to much-isolated species, round which, according to the theory, there has been much extinction.
"Or again, if we take an organ common to all the members of a class -- for in this latter case the organ must have been originally formed at a remote period, since which all the many members of the class have been developed. In order to discover the early transitional grades through which the organ has passed, we should have to look to very ancient ancestral forms, long since become extinct."
Darwin is convinced that complex organs must have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications. How about you folks? Agree? Disagree? Any lurkers here?
Robby
"Numerous cases could be given amongst the lower animals of the same organ performing at the same time wholly distinct functions.
"Thus in the larva of the dragon-fly and in the fish Cobitis the alimentary canal respires, digests, and excretes.
"In the Hydra, the animal may be turned inside out, and the exterior surface will then digest and the stomach respire.
"In such cases natural selection might specialise -- if any advantage were thus gained -- the whole or part of an organ, which had previously performed two functions, for one function alone -- and thus by insensible steps greatly change its nature.
"Many plants are known which regularly produce at the same time differently constructed flowers. If such plants were to produce one kind alone, a great change would be effected with comparative suddenness in the character of the species.
It is, however, probable that the two sorts of flowers borne by the same plant were originally differentiated by finely graduated steps, which may still be followed in some few cases."
This is amazing when you think of it. Any organ could change its function to a function entirely different if it were to the benefit of the organism. Naturally this would occur in impercetable steps over thousands/millions of years. I think of the brain, for instance. If part of the left hemisphere of the brain is injured in a very young infant, sometimes parts of the right hemisphere which ordinarily don't handle such functions, take over that responsibility.
Robby
"To give one instance,- there are fish with gills or branchiae that breathe the air dissolved in the water -- at the same time that they breathe free air in their swimbladders -- this latter organ being divided by highly vascular partitions and having a ductus pneumaticus for the supply of air.
"To give another instance from the vegetable kingdom -- plants climb by three distinct means, by spirally twining, by clasping a support with their sensitive tendrils, and by the emission of aerial rootlets.
"These three means are usually found in distinct groups. But some few species exhibit two of the means, or even all three, combined in the same individual.
"In all such cases one of the two organs might readily be modified and perfected so as to perform all the work, being aided during the progress of modification by the other organ. Then this other organ might be modified for some other and quite distinct purpose, or be wholly obliterated."
I wonder if the two different hemispheres of the brain are an example of two distinct organs -- and they are distinct -- performing the same function. Then there are two kidneys and two lungs. What do you people think?
Robby
"The swimbladder has, also, been worked in as an accessory to the auditory organs of certain fishes. All physiologists admit that the swimbladder is homologous, or "ideally similar" in position and structure with the lungs of the higher vertebrate animals.
"Hence there is no reason to doubt that the swimbladder has actually been converted into lungs, or an organ used exclusively for respiration.
"According to this view it may be inferred that all vertebrate animals with true lungs are descended by ordinary generation from an ancient and unknown prototype, which was furnished with a floating apparatus or swimbladder.
"We can thus, as I infer from Owen's interesting description of these parts, understand the strange fact that every particle of food and drink and which we swallow has to pass over the orifice of the trachea -- with some risk of falling into the lungs -- notwithstanding the beautiful contrivance by which the glottis is closed.
"In the higher Vertebrate the branchiae have wholly disappeared- but in the embryo the slits on the sides of the neck and the loop-like course of the arteries still mark their former position.
"But it is conceivable that the now utterly lost branchiae might have been gradually worked in by natural selection for some distinct purpose. For instance, Landois has shown that the wings of insects are developed from the tracheae.
"It is therefore highly probable that in this great class organs which once served for respiration have been actually converted into organs for flight."
Absolutely amazing! An organ originally constructed for one purpose may be converted into a widely different purpose. An organ that originally helped an organism to float now helps it to breathe. Or an organ that originally helped an organism to breathe now helps it to fly. Humans, after millennia of modifications, are descended from blowfish??
Robby
"Pedunculated cirripedes have two minute folds of skin -- called by me the ovigerous frena -- which serve, through the means of a sticky secretion, to retain the eggs until they are hatched within the sack.
"These cirripedes have no branchiae, the whole surface of the body and of the sack, together with the small frena, serving for respiration.
"The Balanidae or sessile cirripedes, on the other hand, have no ovigerous frena, the eggs lying loose at the bottom of the sack, within the well-enclosed shell. But they have -- in the same relative position with the frena -- large, much-folded membranes, which freely communicate with the circulatory lacunae of the sack and body -- and which have been considered by all naturalists to act as branchiae.
"Now I think no one will dispute that the ovigerous frena in the one family are strictly homologous with the branchiae of the other family. Indeed, they graduate into each other.
"Therefore it need not be doubted that the two little folds of skin, which originally served as ovigerous frena -- but which, likewise, very slightly aided in the act of respiration -- have been gradually converted by natural selection into branchiae simply through an increase in their size and the obliteration of their adhesive glands.
"If all pedunculated cirripedes had become extinct, and they have suffered far more extinction than have sessile cirripedes, who would ever have imagined that the branchiae in this latter family had originally existed as organs for preventing the ova from being washed out of the sack?"
An organism where the whole surface of the body serves for respiration?
Robby
Robby
"This has lately been insisted on by Prof. Cope and others in the United States. It is now known that some animals are capable of reproduction at a very early age, before they have acquired their perfect characters. If this power became thoroughly well developed in a species, it seems probable that the adult stage of development would sooner or later be lost. In this case, especially if the larva differed much from the mature form, the character of the species would be greatly changed and degraded.
"Again, not a few animals, after arriving at maturity, go on changing in character during nearly their whole lives. With mammals, for instance, the form of the skull is often much altered with age, of which Dr. Murie has given some striking instances with seals.
"Every one knows how the horns of stags become more and more branched, and the plumes of some birds become more finely developed, as they grow older.
"Prof. Cope states that the teeth of certain lizards change much in shape with advancing years.
"With crustaceans not only many trivial, but some important parts assume a new character, as recorded by Fritz Muller, after maturity.
"In all such cases,- and many could be given,- if the age for reproduction were retarded, the character of the species, at least in its adult state, would be modified.
"Nor is it improbable that the previous and earlier stages of development would in some cases be hurried through and finally lost.
"Whether species have often or ever been modified through this comparatively sudden mode of transition, I can form no opinion; but if this has occurred, it is probable that the differences between the young and the mature, and between the mature and the old, were primordially acquired by graduated steps."
Has the period of reproduction in human beings been accelerated? Do girls appear to arrive at puberty earlier than a generation or two ago? Does this mean, as Darwin implies, that they have "acquired their perfect characters?" How do you see this affecting, if at all, those people who have arrived at maturity?
Robby
"One of the most serious is that of neuter insects, which are often differently constructed from either the males or fertile females. This case will be treated of in the next chapter.
"The electric organs of fishes offer another case of special difficulty. It is impossible to conceive by what steps these wondrous organs have been produced. But this is not surprising. We do not even know of what use they are.
"In the Gymnotus and torpedo they no doubt serve as powerful means of defence, and perhaps for securing prey. Yet in the ray, as observed by Matteucci, an analogous organ in the tail manifests but little electricity, even when the animal is greatly irritated. So little, that it can hardly be of any use for the above purposes.
"Moreover, in the ray, besides the organ just referred to, there is -- as Dr. R. McDonnell has shown -- another organ near the head -- not known to be electrical -- but which appears to be the real homologue of the electric battery in the torpedo.
"It is generally admitted that there exists between these organs and ordinary muscle a close analogy -- in intimate structure -- in the distribution of the nerves -- and in the manner in which they are acted on by various reagents.
"It should, also, be especially observed that muscular contraction is accompanied by an electrical discharge; and -- as Dr. Radcliffe insists -- in the electrical apparatus of the torpedo during rest, there would seem be a charge in every respect like that which is met with in muscle and nerve during rest.
"The discharge of the torpedo, instead of being peculiar, may be only another form of the discharge which depends upon the action of muscle and motor nerve.
"Beyond this we cannot at present go in the way of explanation. As we know so little about the uses of these organs -- and as we know nothing about the habits and structure of the progenitors of the existing electric fishes -- it would be extremely bold to maintain that no serviceable transitions are possible by which these organs might have been gradually developed."
Darwin is admitting difficulty in figuring out how electric organs came into existence. Any ideas?
Robby
"They occur in about a dozen kinds of fish, of which several are widely remote in their affinities.
"When the same organ is found in several members of the same class, especially if in members having very different habits of life, we may generally attribute its presence to inheritance from a common ancestor -- and its absence in some of the members to loss through disuse or natural selection.
"If the electric organs had been inherited from some one ancient progenitor, we might have expected that all electric fishes would have been specially related to each other.
"This is far from the case.
"Nor does geology at all lead to the belief that most fishes formerly possessed electric organs, which their modified descendants have now lost.
"But when we look at the subject more closely, we find in the several fishes provided with electric organs, that these are situated in different parts of the body. They differ in construction, as in the arrangement of the plates, and -- according to Pacini -- in the process or means by which the electricity is excited-- and lastly, in being supplied with nerves proceeding from different sources.
"This is perhaps the most important of all the differences.
"In the several fishes furnished with electric organs, these cannot be considered as homologous, but only as analogous in function. Consequently there is no reason to suppose that they have been inherited from a common progenitor. Had this been the case they would have closely resembled each other in all respects.
"Thus the difficulty of an organ -- apparently the same, arising in several remotely allied species, disappears -- leaving only the lesser yet still great difficulty. Namely, by what graduated steps these organs have been developed in each separate group of fishes."
We have a mystery to solve.
Robby
"Other similar cases could be given. For instance in plants, the very curious contrivance of a mass of pollen-grains -- borne on a foot-stalk with an adhesive gland -- is apparently the same in Orchis and Asclepias,- genera almost as remote as is possible amongst flowering plants.
"But here again the parts are not homologous. In all cases of beings -- far removed from each other in the scale of organisation, which are furnished with similar and peculiar organs -- it will be found that although the general appearance and function of the organs may be the same, yet fundamental differences between them can always be detected.
"For instance, the eyes of cephalopods or cuttle-fish and of vertebrate animals appear wonderfully alike. In such widely sundered groups no part of this resemblance can be due to inheritance from a common progenitor.
"Mr. Mivart has advanced this case as one of special difficulty, but I am unable to see the force of his argument.
"An organ for vision must be formed of transparent tissue, and must include some sort of lens for throwing an image at the back of a darkened chamber. Beyond this superficial resemblance, there is hardly any real similarity between the eyes of cuttle-fish and vertebrates, as may be seen by consulting Hensen's admirable memoir on these organs in the Cephalopoda.
"It is impossible for me here to enter on details, but I may specify a few of the points of difference.
"The crystalline lens in the higher cuttle-fish consists of two parts, placed one behind the other like two lenses, both having a very different structure and disposition to what occurs in the vertebrata. The retina is wholly different -- with an actual inversion of the elemental parts -- and with a large nervous ganglion included within the membranes of the eye.
"The relations of the muscles are as different as it is possible to conceive, and so in other points.
"Hence it is not a little difficult to decide how far even the same terms ought to be employed in describing the eyes of the Cephalopoda and Vertebrata.
"It is, of course, open to any one to deny that the eye in either case could have been developed through the natural selection of successive slight variations. If this be admitted in the one case, it is clearly possible in the other. Fundamental differences of structure in the visual organs of two groups might have been anticipated, in accordance with this view of their manner of formation.
"As two men have sometimes independently hit on the same invention, so in the several foregoing cases it appears that natural selection -- working for the good of each being, and taking advantage of all favourable variations -- has produced similar organs, as far as function is concerned, in distinct organic beings, which owe none of their structure in common to inheritance from a common progenitor."
Eniirely different organims, not from the same ancestors, yet having similar organs?
Robby
"Several families of crustaceans include a few species, possessing an air-breathing apparatus and fitted to live out of the water.
"In two of these families, which were more especially examined by Muller and which are nearly related to each other, the species agree most closely in all important characters -- namely, in their sense organs -- circulating system -- in the position of the tufts of hair within their complex stomachs -- and lastly in the whole structure of the water-breathing branchiae, even to the microscopical hooks by which they are cleansed.
"Hence it might have been expected that in the few species belonging to both families which live on the land, the equally important air-breathing apparatus would have been the same.
"Why should this one apparatus, given for the same purpose, have been made to differ, whilst all the other important organs were closely similar or rather identical?"
Once again, an organ which appears different but serves the same purpose as those which did not differ.
Robby
"But as the vast majority of the species in the above two families -- as well as most other crustaceans -- are aquatic in their habits, it is improbable in the highest degree, that their common progenitor should have been adapted for breathing air was thus led carefully to examine the apparatus in the air-breathing species.
"He found it to differ in each in several important points -- as in the position of the orifices -- in the manner in which they are opened and closed -- and in some accessory details.
"Now such differences are intelligible -- and might even have been expected -- on the supposition that species belonging to distinct families had slowly become adapted to live more and more out of water, and to breathe the air. These species, from belonging to distinct families, would have differed to a certain extent and in accordance with the principle that the nature of each variation depends on two factors -- viz., the nature of the organism and that of the surrounding conditions -- their variability assuredly would not have been exactly the same.
"Consequently natural selection would have had different materials or variations to work on, in order to arrive at the same functional result. The structures thus acquired would almost necessarily have differed.
"On the hypothesis of separate acts of creation the whole case remains unintelligible. This line of argument seems to have had great weight in leading Fritz Muller to accept the views maintained by me in this volume."
Once again Darwin finds "separate acts of creation" by a Creator being without logic.
Robby
Robby
"He shows that there are parasitic mites (Acaridae), belonging to distinct sub-families and families, which are furnished with hair-claspers. These organs must have been independently developed, as they could not have been inherited from a common progenitor. In the several groups they are formed by the modification of the fore-legs -- of the hind-legs -- of the maxillae or lips -- and of appendages on the under side of the hind part of the body.
"In the foregoing cases, we see the same end gained and the same function performed, in beings not at all or only remotely allied -- by organs in appearance, though not in development -- closely similar.
"On the other hand, it is a common rule throughout nature that the same end should be gained -- even sometimes in the case of closely-related beings -- by the most diversified means.
"How differently constructed is the feathered wing of a bird and the membrane-covered wing of a bat. Still more so the four wings of a butterfly, the two wings of a fly, and the two wings with the elytra of a beetle.
"Bivalve shells are made to open and shut, but on what a number of patterns is the hinge constructed --from the long row of neatly interlocking teeth in a Nucula to the simple ligament of a Mussel!
"Seeds are disseminated by their minuteness -- by their capsule being converted into a light balloon-like envelope -- by being embedded in pulp or flesh, formed of the most diverse parts -- and rendered nutritious, as well as conspicuously coloured, so as to attract and be devoured by birds -- by having hooks and grapnels of many kinds and serrated arms, so as to adhere to the fur of quadrupeds -- and by being furnished with wings and plumes, as different in shape as they are elegant in structure, so as to be wafted by every breeze.
"I will give one other instance. This subject of the same end being gained by the most diversified means well deserves attention.
"Some authors maintain that organic beings have been formed in many ways for the sake of mere variety, almost like toys in a shop. Such a view of nature is incredible.
"With plants having separated sexes, and with those in which, though hermaphrodites, the pollen does not spontaneously fall on the stigma, some aid is necessary for their fertilisation.
"With several kinds this is effected by the pollen-grains -- which are light and incoherent -- being blown by the wind through mere chance on to the stigma. This is the simplest plan which can well be conceived.
"An almost equally simple, though very different, plan occurs in many plants in which a symmetrical flower secretes a few drops of nectar, and is consequently visited by insects. These carry the pollen from the anthers to the stigma."
Darwin gives example after example showing that Natural Selection may arrive at the same end through amazingly different ways. As Darwin says:- "The same end being gained by the most diversified means."
Robby
Robby
"The nectar may be stored in variously shaped receptacles -- with the stamens and pistils modified in many ways, sometimes forming trap-like contrivances -- and sometimes capable of neatly adapted movements through irritability or elasticity.
"From such structures we may advance till we come to such a case of extraordinary adaptation as that lately described by Dr. Cruger in the Coryanthes.
"This orchid has part of its labellum or lower lip hollowed out into a great bucket, into which drops of almost pure water continually fall from two secreting horns which stand above it. When the bucket is half full, the water overflows by a spout on one side.
"The basal part of the labellum stands over the bucket, and is itself hollowed out into a sort of chamber with two lateral entrances. Within this chamber there are curious fleshy ridges.
"The most ingenious man, if he had not witnessed what takes place, could never have imagined what purpose all these parts serve. But Dr. Cruger saw crowds of large humble-bees visiting the gigantic flowers of this orchid -- not in order to suck nectar -- but to gnaw off the ridges within the chamber above the bucket.
"In doing this they frequently pushed each other into the bucket, and their wings being thus wetted they could not fly away, but were compelled to crawl out through the passage formed by the spout or overflow.
"Dr. Cruger saw a "continual procession" of bees thus crawling out of their involuntary bath. The passage is narrow, and is roofed over by the column, so that a bee, in forcing its way out, first rubs its back against the viscid stigma and then against the viscid glands of the pollen-masses. The pollen-masses are thus glued to the back of the bee which first happens to crawl out through the passage of a lately expanded flower, and are thus carried away.
"Dr. Cruger sent me a flower in spirits of wine, with a bee which he had killed before it had quite crawled out with a pollen-mass still fastened to its back.
"When the bee, thus provided, flies to another flower -- or to the same flower a second time, and is pushed by its comrades into the bucket and then crawls out by the passage -- the pollen-mass necessarily comes first into contact with the viscid stigma, and adheres to it, and the flower is fertilised.
"Now at last we see the full use of every part of the flower -- of the water-secreting horns -- of the bucket half full of water, which prevents the bees from flying away, and forces them to crawl out through the spout -- and rub against the properly placed viscid pollen-masses and the viscid stigma."
This is absolutely amazing! Read it in detail.
Robby
"Bees visit these flowers, like those of the Coryanthes, in order to gnaw the labellum.
"In doing this they inevitably touch a long, tapering, sensitive projection, or, as I have called it, the antenna. This antenna, when touched, transmits a sensation or vibration to a certain membrane which is instantly ruptured. This sets free a spring by which the pollen-mass is shot forth -- like an arrow, in the right direction -- and adheres by its viscid extremity to the back of the bee.
"The pollen-mass of the male plant (for the sexes are separate in this orchid) is thus carried to the flower of the female plant where it is brought into contact with the stigma -- which is viscid enough to break certain elastic threads -- and retaining the pollen, fertilisation is effected."
Anyone here acquainted with Rube Goldberg?
Robby
Robby
"The answer no doubt is, as already remarked -- that when two forms vary, which already differ from each other in some slight degree -- the variability will not be of the same exact nature. Consequently the results obtained through natural selection for the same general purpose will not be the same.
"We should also bear in mind that every highly developed organism has passed through many changes. Each modified structure tends to be inherited. Each modification will not readily be quite lost, but may be again and again further altered.
"Hence the structure of each part of each species -- for whatever purpose it may serve -- is the sum of many inherited changes, through which the species has passed during its successive adaptations to changed habits and conditions of life."
If I am understanding Darwin correctly, he is telling us that change can occur in any direction. Nature is trying out thousands (millions?) of ways. Any result can occur. And not only that but that each change is passed down to the "child." And that each of these changes can occur in all sorts of directions. I guess a "Rube Goldberg" type of result, when you think of it, is not that improbable.
Robby
"It certainly is true -- that new organs appearing as if created for some special purpose, rarely or never appear in any being -- as indeed is shown by that old, but somewhat exaggerated, canon in natural history of "Natura non facit saltum."
"We meet with this admission in the writings of almost every experienced naturalist -- or as Milne Edwards has well expressed it -- Nature is prodigal in variety, but niggard in innovation.
"Why, on the theory of Creation, should there be so much variety and so little real novelty?
"Why should all the parts and organs of many independent beings, each supposed to have been separately created for its proper place in nature, be so commonly linked together by graduated steps?
"Why should not Nature take a sudden leap from structure to structure?
"On the theory of natural selection, we can clearly understand why she should not. Natural selection acts only by taking advantage of slight successive variations. She can never take a great and sudden leap, but must advance by short and sure, though slow steps."
Now Darwin is dragging out his big guns. He quotes a phrase used regularly in Natural History -- "Natura non facit saltum" (Nature does not make leaps). He is challenging people to show the illogical thinking behind the development of his theory. We have come to the end of the section in this chapter entitled "Special Difficulties of the Theory of Natural Selection." Speak up, participants and lurkers.
Robby
"In a former chapter I have given instances of very trifling characters -- such as the down on fruit and the colour of its flesh, the colour of the skin and hair of quadrupeds -- which, from being correlated with constitutional differences or from determining the attacks of insects, might assuredly be acted on by natural selection.
"The tail of the giraffe looks like an artificially constructed fly-flapper. It seems at first incredible that this could have been adapted for its present purpose by successive slight modifications, each better and better fitted, for so trifling an object as to drive away flies.
"Yet we should pause before being too positive even in this case. We know that the distribution and existence of cattle and other animals in South America absolutely depend on their power of resisting the attacks of insects. Individuals which could by any means defend themselves from these small enemies, would be able to range into new pastures and thus gain a great advantage.
"It is not that the larger quadrupeds are actually destroyed (except in some rare cases) by flies. They are incessantly harassed and their strength reduced, so that they are more subject to disease, or not so well enabled in a coming dearth to search for food, or to escape from beasts of prey."
Apparently what appears insignificant on the surface may be anything but. I wonder what "insignificant" organs or parts thereof can be found on a human being.
Robby
Robby
"Seeing how important an organ of locomotion the tail is in most aquatic animals, its general presence and use for many purposes in so many land animals -- which in their lungs or modified swimbladders betray their aquatic origin -- may perhaps be thus accounted for.
"A well-developed tail having been formed in an aquatic animal, it might subsequently come to be worked in for all sorts of purposes -- as a fly-flapper -- an organ of prehension -- or as an aid in turning, as in the case of the dog -- though the aid in this latter respect must be slight, for the hare, with hardly any tail, can double still more quickly."
So I assume, as modifications occur down the millennia, that almost any organ can end up doing almost anything. Police use heavy flashlights as weapons and a book can become a door stop.
Robby
Robby
"We must by no means overlook the effects of the definite action of changed conditions of life -- of so-called spontaneous variations, which seem to depend in a quite subordinate degree on the nature of the conditions -- of the tendency to reversion to long-lost characters -- of the complex laws of growth, such as of correlation, compensation -- of the pressure of one part on another, &c. -- and finally of sexual selection, by which characters of use to one sex are often gained and then transmitted more or less perfectly to the other sex -- though of no use to this sex.
"But structures thus indirectly gained, although at first of no advantage to a species, may subsequently have been taken advantage of by its modified descendants, under new conditions of life and newly acquired habits."
Your comments, please?
Robby
"Consequently that it was a character of importance, and had been acquired through natural selection. As it is, the colour is probably in chief part due to sexual selection.
"A trailing palm in the Malay Archipelago climbs the loftiest trees by the aid of exquisitely constructed hooks clustered around the ends of the branches, and this contrivance, no doubt, is of the highest service to the plant.
"But as we see nearly similar hooks on many trees which are not climbers -- and which, as there is reason to believe from the distribution of the thorn-bearing species in Africa and South America -- serve as a defence against browsing quadrupeds -- so the spikes on the palm may at first have been developed for this object, and subsequently have been improved and taken advantage of by the plant -- as it underwent further modification and became a climber.
"The naked skin on the head of a vulture is generally considered as a direct adaptation for wallowing in putridity -- and so it may be -- or it may possibly be due to the direct action of putrid matter.
"We should be very cautious in drawing any such inference, when we see that the skin on the head of the clean-feeding male turkey is likewise naked.
"The sutures in the skull of young mammals have been advanced as a beautiful adaptation for aiding parturition -- and no doubt they facilitate -- or may be indispensable for this act. But as sutures occur in the skulls of young birds and reptiles, which have only to escape from a broken egg, we may infer that this structure has arisen from the laws of growth -- and has been taken advantage of in the parturition of the higher animals."
Darwin warns us not to automatically assume anything.
Robby
Robby
"Animals kept by savages in different countries often have to struggle for their own subsistence, and are exposed to a certain extent to natural selection, and individuals with slightly different constitutions would succeed best under different climates.
"With cattle susceptibility to the attacks of flies is correlated with colour, as is the liability to be poisoned by certain plants. Even colour would be thus subjected to the action of natural selection.
"Some observers are convinced that a damp climate affects the growth of the hair, and that with the hair the horns are correlated.
"Mountain breeds always differ from lowland breeds. A mountainous country would probably affect the hind limbs from exercising them more, and possibly even the form of the pelvis. By the law of homologous variation, the front limbs and the head would probably be affected.
"The shape, also, of the pelvis might affect by pressure the shape of certain parts of the young in the womb. The laborious breathing necessary in high regions tends -- as we have good reason to believe -- to increase the size of the chest. Again correlation would come into play.
"The effects of lessened exercise together with abundant food on the whole organisation is probably still more important. This -- as H. von Nathusius has lately shown in his excellent treatise -- is apparently one chief cause of the great modification which the breeds of swine have undergone.
"But we are far too ignorant to speculate on the relative importance of the several known and unknown causes of variation. I have made these remarks only to show that, if we are unable to account for the characteristic differences of our several domestic breeds -- which nevertheless are generally admitted to have arisen through ordinary generation from one or a few parent-stocks -- we ought not to lay too much stress on our ignorance of the precise cause of the slight analogous differences between true species."
Darwin speaks of "the effects of lessened exercise together with abundant food." Scientists are becoming concerned about the resultant obesity from the lessened exercise and abundant food in developed nations. If this continues for centuries, I wonder what effect it will have on the organization of homo sapiens.
Robby
What we are doing here is reading Darwin's book, paragraph by paragraph. Each posting is one paragraph of Darwin's book. The words are his, not mine. My words are in red.
Ignore the fact that my postings are sometimes four or five paragraphs. In his book they were one paragraph. I divide it up for easy reading.
Robby
I speak of lack of luxury of time. We began January 1st of this year and yet, despite our informal way of going at it, have only completed 5 1/2 chapters out of 15.
Many participants here are also participants in the discussion group "The Story of Civilization." There we are nearing the end of only the fourth (out of eleven) volumes and are nearing the end of five years of discussion. This gives you an idea of the passage of time.
I will continue to post one of Darwin's paragraphs each day (occasionlly two) and we will all try to understand how species originated as best we can. Speaking for myself, I think I understand the theory much better than I did when we started 7 1/2 months ago.
Comments here by other participants are always welcome.
Robby
Let us move on to the words of Darwin.
Robby
"They believe that many structures have been created for the sake of beauty, to delight man or the Creator -- but this latter point is beyond the scope of scientific discussion -- or for the sake of mere variety, a view already discussed.
"Such doctrines, if true, would be absolutely fatal to my theory. I fully admit that many structures are now of no direct use to their possessors -- and may never have been of any use to their progenitors.
"But this does not prove that they were formed solely for beauty or variety. No doubt the definite action of changed conditions -- and the various causes of modifications, lately specified -- have all produced an effect -- probably a great effect -- independently of any advantage thus gained.
"But a still more important consideration is that the chief part of the organisation of every living creature is due to inheritance. Consequently, though each being assuredly is well fitted for its place in nature, many structures have now no very close and direct relation to present habits of life.
"Thus, we can hardly believe that the webbed feet of the upland goose or of the frigate-bird are of special use to these birds. We cannot believe that the similar bones in the arm of the monkey -- in the fore-leg of the horse -- in the wing of the bat -- and in the flipper of the seal -- are of special use to these animals.
"We may safely attribute these structures to inheritance. But webbed feet no doubt were as useful to the progenitor of the upland goose and of the frigate-bird, as they now are to the most aquatic of living birds. So we may believe that the progenitor of the seal did not possess a flipper, but a foot with five toes fitted for walking or grasping. We may further venture to believe that the several bones in the limbs of the monkey, horse, and bat, were originally developed -- on the principle of utility -- probably through the reduction of more numerous bones in the fin of some ancient fish-like progenitor of the whole class.
"It is scarcely possible to decide how much allowance ought to be made for such causes of change -- as the definite action of external conditions, so-called spontaneous variations -- and the complex laws of growth.
"With these important exceptions, we may conclude that the structure of every living creature either now is, or was formerly, of some direct or indirect use to its possessor."
Any reactions to Darwin's conclusion that the structure of every living creature formerly had some use?
Robby
Robby
Thank you, Mallylee.
Robby
"The foregoing remarks lead me to say a few words on the protest lately made by some naturalists, against the utilitarian doctrine that every detail of structure has been produced for the good of its possessor.
"They believe that many structures have been created for the sake of beauty, to delight man or the Creator -- but this latter point is beyond the scope of scientific discussion -- or for the sake of mere variety, a view already discussed.
"Such doctrines, if true, would be absolutely fatal to my theory. I fully admit that many structures are now of no direct use to their possessors -- and may never have been of any use to their progenitors.
"But this does not prove that they were formed solely for beauty or variety. No doubt the definite action of changed conditions -- and the various causes of modifications, lately specified -- have all produced an effect -- probably a great effect -- independently of any advantage thus gained.
"But a still more important consideration is that the chief part of the organisation of every living creature is due to inheritance. Consequently, though each being assuredly is well fitted for its place in nature, many structures have now no very close and direct relation to present habits of life.
"Thus, we can hardly believe that the webbed feet of the upland goose or of the frigate-bird are of special use to these birds. We cannot believe that the similar bones in the arm of the monkey -- in the fore-leg of the horse -- in the wing of the bat -- and in the flipper of the seal -- are of special use to these animals.
"We may safely attribute these structures to inheritance. But webbed feet no doubt were as useful to the progenitor of the upland goose and of the frigate-bird, as they now are to the most aquatic of living birds. So we may believe that the progenitor of the seal did not possess a flipper, but a foot with five toes fitted for walking or grasping. We may further venture to believe that the several bones in the limbs of the monkey, horse, and bat, were originally developed -- on the principle of utility -- probably through the reduction of more numerous bones in the fin of some ancient fish-like progenitor of the whole class.
"It is scarcely possible to decide how much allowance ought to be made for such causes of change -- as the definite action of external conditions, so-called spontaneous variations -- and the complex laws of growth.
"With these important exceptions, we may conclude that the structure of every living creature either now is, or was formerly, of some direct or indirect use to its possessor."
Any reactions to Darwin's conclusion that the structure of every living creature formerly had some use?
Robby
However, we agreed at the start that we would try to imagine that we lived at the time of Darwin and would move along with him in the book we are currently reading. Speaking for myself, after we finish this book I would like to continue with further info about evolution that would relate to the question you are asking.
Robby
"That the idea of what is beautiful, is not innate or unalterable.
"We see this, for instance, in the men of different races admiring an entirely different standard of beauty in their women. If beautiful objects had been created solely for man's gratification, it ought to be shown that before man appeared, there was less beauty on the face of the earth than since he came on the stage.
"Were the beautiful volute and cone shells of the Eocene epoch, and the gracefully sculptured ammonites of the Secondary period, created that man might ages afterwards admire them in his cabinet?
"Few objects are more beautiful than the minute siliceous cases of the diatomaceae. Were these created that they might be examined and admired under the higher powers of the microscope? The beauty in this latter case, and in many others, is apparently wholly due to symmetry of growth.
"Flowers rank amongst the most beautiful productions of nature. They have been rendered conspicuous in contrast with the green leaves -- and in consequence at the same time beautiful -- so that they may be easily observed by insects. I have come to this conclusion from finding it an invariable rule that when a flower is fertilised by the wind it never has a gaily-coloured corolla.
"Several plants habitually produce two kinds of flowers -- one kind open and coloured so as to attract insects -- the other closed, not coloured, destitute of nectar, and never visited by insects.
"Hence we may conclude that, if insects had not been developed on the face of the earth, our plants would not have been decked with beautiful flowers -- but would have produced only such poor flowers as we see on our fir, oak, nut and ash trees, on grasses, spinach, docks, and nettles, which are all fertilised through the agency of the wind.
"A similar line of argument holds good with fruits -- that a ripe strawberry or cherry is as pleasing to the eye as to the palate. That the gaily-coloured fruit of the spindle-wood tree and the scarlet berries of the holly are beautiful objects will be admitted by every one.
"But this beauty serves merely as a guide to birds and beasts, in order that the fruit may be devoured and the matured seeds disseminated.
"I infer that this is the case from having as yet found no exception to the rule that seeds are always thus disseminated when embedded within a fruit of any kind (that is within a fleshy or pulpy envelope), if it be coloured of any brilliant tint, or rendered conspicuous by being white or black."
Is beautiy in the eye of the beholder -- whether the beholder be humans, insects, or hungry animals? I am wondering if what we are attracted to is automatically called beautiful. And is that so because we are merely following the "rules" of evolution.
Robby
"So it is with the music of birds. We may infer from all this that a nearly similar taste for beautiful colours and for musical sounds runs through a large part of the animal kingdom.
"When the female is as beautifully coloured as the male, which is not rarely the case with birds and butterflies, the cause apparently lies in the colours acquired through sexual selection having been transmitted to both sexes, instead of to the males alone.
"How the sense of beauty in its simplest form -- that is, the reception of a peculiar kind of pleasure from certain colours, forms, and sounds -- was first developed in the mind of man and of the lower animals, is a very obscure subject.
"The same sort of difficulty is presented, if we enquire how it is that certain flavours and odours give pleasure, and others displeasure.
"Habit in all these cases appears to have come to a certain extent into play. But there must be some fundamental cause in the constitution of the nervous system in each species."
In other words, if I understand Darwin correctly, organisms are "hard wired" to be attracted to certain colors, forms, odors, and sounds. So we think we are rationally choosing our mate? Ha!!
Robby
Robby
"But natural selection can and does often produce structures for the direct injury of other animals -- as we see in the fang of the adder -- and in the ovipositor of the ichneumon, by which its eggs are deposited in the living bodies of other insects.
"If it could be proved that any part of the structure of any one species had been formed for the exclusive good of another species, it would annihilate my theory, for such could not have been produced through natural selection. Although many statements may be found in works on natural history to this effect, I cannot find even one which seems to me of any weight.
"It is admitted that the rattlesnake has a poison-fang for its own defence, and for the destruction of its prey. Some authors suppose that at the same time it is furnished with a rattle for its own injury, namely, to warn its prey. I would almost as soon believe that the cat curls the end of its tail when preparing to spring, in order to warn the doomed mouse.
"It is a much more probable view that the rattlesnake uses its rattle, the cobra expands its frill, and the puff-adder swells whilst hissing so loudly and harshly, in order to alarm the many birds and beasts which are known to attack even the most venomous species.
"Snakes act on the same principle which makes the hen ruffle her feathers and expand her wings when a dog approaches her chickens.
"I have not space here to enlarge on the many ways by which animals endeavour to frighten away their enemies."
This speaks for itself.
Robby
"No organ will be formed, as Paley has remarked, for the purpose of causing pain or for doing an injury to its possessor.
"If a fair balance be struck between the good and evil caused by each part, each will be found on the whole advantageous.
"After the lapse of time, under changing conditions of life, if any part comes to be injurious, it will be modified. If it be not so, the being Will become extinct as myriads have become extinct.
"Natural selection tends only to make each organic being as perfect as, or slightly more perfect than, the other inhabitants of the same country with which it comes into competition.
"And we see that this is the standard of perfection attained under nature. The endemic productions of New Zealand, for instance, are perfect when compared with another. But they are now rapidly yielding before the advancing legions of plants and animals introduced from Europe.
"Natural selection will not produce absolute perfection, nor do we always meet, as far as we can judge, with this high standard under nature.
"The correction for the aberration of light is said by Muller not to be perfect even in that most perfect organ, the human eye.
"Helmholtz, whose judgment no one will dispute, after describing in the strongest terms the wonderful powers of the human eye, adds these remarkable words:-- 'That which we have discovered in the way of inexactness and imperfection in the optical machine and in the image on the retina, is as nothing in comparison with the incongruities which we have just come across in the domain of the sensations. One might say that nature has taken delight in accumulating contradictions in order to remove all foundation from the theory of a pre-existing harmony between the external and internal worlds.'
"If our reason leads us to admire with enthusiasm a multitude of inimitable contrivances in nature, this same reason tells us -- though we may easily err on both sides -- that some other contrivances are less perfect.
"Can we consider the sting of the bee as perfect, which, when used against many kinds of enemies, cannot be withdrawn, owing to the backward serratures, and thus inevitably causes the death of the insect by tearing out its viscera?"
So are human beings gradually becoming more "perfect" despite the various roads leading to imperfection?
Robby
Robby
"If we look at the sting of the bee, as having existed in a remote progenitor, as a boring and serrated instrument -- like that in so many members of the same great order, and which has since been modified but not perfected for its present purpose -- with the poison originally adapted for some other object, such as to produce galls, since intensified -- we can perhaps understand how it is that the use of the sting should so often cause the insect's own death.
"If on the whole the power of stinging be useful to the social community, it will fulfil all the requirements of natural selection, though it may cause the death of some few members.
"If we admire the truly wonderful power of scent by which the males of many insects find their females, can we admire the production for this single purpose of thousands of drones -- which are utterly useless to the community for any other purpose -- and which are ultimately slaughtered by their industrious and sterile sisters?
"It may be difficult, but we ought to admire the savage instinctive hatred of the queen-bee, which urges her to destroy the young queens, her daughters, as soon as they are born, or to perish herself in the combat.
"Undoubtedly this is for the good of the community. Maternal love or maternal hatred -- though the latter fortunately is most rare -- is all the same to the inexorable principle of natural selection.
"If we admire the several ingenious contrivances, by which orchids and many other plants are fertilised through insect agency, can we consider as equally perfect the elaboration of dense clouds of pollen by our fir trees, so that a few granules may be wafted by chance on to the ovules?"
Darwin asks us to look at natural selection from the point of view of a community rather than an individual. Does at times the death or one organism aid in the survival of the community? Can a "savage instinctive hatred" be beneficial to the group at large? How is it, throughout history, that many incipient kings kill their brothers and sons?
Robby
"Many of them are serious. But I think that in the discussion light has been thrown on several facts, which on the belief of independent acts of creation are utterly obscure.
"We have seen that species at any one period are not indefinitely variable -- and are not linked together by a multitude of intermediate gradations -- partly because the process of natural selection is always very slow -- and at any one time acts only on a few forms.
"Partly because the very process of natural selection implies the continual supplanting and extinction of preceding and intermediate gradations.
"Closely allied species -- now living on a continuous area -- must often have been formed when the area was not continuous -- and when the conditions of life did not insensibly graduate away from one part to another.
"When two varieties are formed in two districts of a continuous area, an intermediate variety will often be formed, fitted for an intermediate zone. But from reasons assigned, the intermediate variety will usually exist in lesser numbers than the two forms which it connects.
"Consequently the two latter -- during the course of further modification, from existing in greater numbers -- will have a great advantage over the less numerous intermediate variety, and will thus generally succeed in supplanting and exterminating it.
"We have seen in this chapter how cautious we should be in concluding that the most different habits of life could not graduate into each other -- that a bat, for instance, could not have been formed by natural selection from an animal which at first only glided through the air.
"We have seen that a species under new conditions of life may change its habits. It may have diversified habits, with some very unlike those of its nearest congeners.
"Hence we can understand -- bearing in mind that each organic being is trying to live wherever it can live -- how it has arisen that there are upland geese with webbed feet -- ground woodpeckers -- diving thrushes -- and petrels with the habits of auks."
Darwin reminds us that the process of Natural Selection is very very slow. That Natural Selection means that organisms come to life and die. That the greater number wins out over the lesser number. That organisms which do not appear related to each other at all could very well be if we examine their parts carefully.
Robby
Robby, you posted above:
How is it, throughout history, that many incipient kings kill their brothers and sons?
You are asking about kings killing brothers (for example, in Hamlet?), not to mention regicide by princes.
I assume your question did not mean a dog killing his brother, the king of the dogs, or a
lion prince killing the king of the lions.
You obviously meant human kings.
However, as a participant, I am not allowed to mention human evolution.
Thus, for several weeks, I have been reading, but not posting.
Please continue to post.
Robby
"In the cases in which we know of no intermediate or transitional states, we should be extremely cautious in concluding that none can have existed, for the metamorphoses of many organs show what wonderful changes in function are at least possible.
"For instance, a swimbladder has apparently been converted into an air-breathing lung. The same organ having performed simultaneously very different functions, and then having been in part or in whole specialised for one function -- and two distinct organs having performed at the same time the same function, the one having been perfected whilst aided by the other -- must often have largely facilitated transitions."
As I understand this, Darwin is saying that often in the past there may have been transitional stages of which we know nothing. We see one variety. Then we see another variety which appears very different. We come to the conclusion that they are separate and that one has no connection with the other.
Robby
"But when such organs are closely examined, essential differences in their structure can almost always be detected. This naturally follows from the principle of natural selection.
"On the other hand, the common rule throughout nature is infinite diversity of structure for gaining the same end. This again naturally follows from the same great principle.
"In many cases we are far too ignorant to be enabled to assert that a part or organ is so unimportant for the welfare of a species -- that modifications in its structure could not have been slowly accumulated by means of natural selection.
"In many other cases, modifications are probably the direct result of the laws of variation or of growth, independently of any good having been thus gained. But even such structures have often, as we may feel assured, been subsequently taken advantage of -- and still further modified -- for the good of species under new conditions of life.
"We may, also, believe that a part formerly of high importance has frequently been retained -- as the tail of an aquatic animal by its terrestrial descendants -- though it has become of such small importance that it could not, in its present state, have been acquired by means of natural selection."
Any comments about Darwin's statement that "the common rule throughout nature is infinite diversity of structure for gaining the same end?" Do all roads lead to Rome?
Robby
"It may well produce parts, organs, and excretions highly useful or even indispensable -- or again highly injurious to another species -- but in all cases at the same time useful to the possessor.
"In each well-stocked country natural selection acts through the competition of the inhabitants -- and consequently leads to success in the battle for life -- only in accordance with the standard of that particular country. Hence the inhabitants of one country -- generally the smaller one -- often yield to the inhabitants of another and generally the larger country.
"In the larger country there will have existed more individuals and more diversified forms. The competition will have been severer, and thus the standard of perfection will have been rendered higher.
"Natural selection will not necessarily lead to absolute perfection; nor, as far as we can judge by our limited faculties, can absolute perfection be everywhere predicated.
"On the theory of natural selection we can clearly understand the full meaning of that old canon in natural history, "Natura non facit saltum."
"This canon, if we look to the present inhabitants alone of the world, is not strictly correct. But if we include all those of past times, whether known or unknown, it must on this theory be strictly true."
Your comments, please?
Robby
"By unity of type is meant that fundamental agreement in structure which we see in organic beings of the same class, and which is quite independent of their habits of life. On my theory, unity of type is explained by unity of descent.
"The expression of conditions of existence, so often insisted on by the illustrious Cuvier, is fully embraced by the principle of natural selection. For natural selection acts by either now adapting the varying parts of each being to its organic and inorganic conditions of life -- or by having adapted them during past periods of time -- the adaptations being aided in many cases by the increased use or disuse of parts, being affected by the direct action of the external conditions of life -- and subjected in all cases to the several laws of growth and variation.
"Hence, in fact, the law of the Conditions of Existence is the higher law; as it includes, through the inheritance of former variations and adaptations, that of Unity of Type."
This is the last paragraph in Chapter Six on the "Difficulties of the Theory." Any Comments?
Robby
Miscellaneous Objections to the Theory of Natural Selection
"But it would be useless to discuss all of them. Many have been made by writers who have not taken the trouble to understand the subject. Thus a distinguished German naturalist has asserted that the weakest part of my theory is, that I consider all organic beings as imperfect.
"What I have really said is, that all are not as perfect as they might have been in relation to their conditions. This is shown to be the case by so many native forms in many quarters of the world having yielded their places to intruding foreigners.
"Nor can organic beings, even if they were at any one time perfectly adapted to their conditions of life, have remained so -- when their conditions changed -- unless they themselves likewise changed.
"No one will dispute that the physical conditions of each country, as well as the numbers and kinds of its inhabitants, have undergone many mutations."
"Many have been made by writers who have not taken the trouble to understand the subject." This is true a century or more later. Just read some of the articles about evolution in newspapers and magazines. When we finish reading this book and move onto later books related to this subject, it will be interesting to read the comments of the new participants who have not read this original book by Darwin.
Robby
"That he who believes in natural selection "must arrange his genealogical tree" in such a manner that all the descendants have longer lives than their progenitors!
"Cannot our critic conceive that a biennial plant or one of the lower animals might range into a cold climate and perish there every winter -- yet, owing to advantages gained through natural selection, survive from year to year by means of its seeds or ova?
"Mr. E. Ray Lankester has recently discussed this subject, and he concludes -- as far as its extreme complexity allows him to form a judgment -- that longevity is generally related to the standard of each species in the scale of organisation -- as well as to the amount of expenditure in reproduction and in general activity.
"And these conditions have, it is probable, been largely determined through natural selection."
"It has been argued that, as none of the animals and plants of Egypt, of which we know anything, have changed during the last three or four thousand years, so probably have none in any part of the world.
"But, as Mr. G. H. Lewes has remarked, this line of argument proves too much. The ancient domestic races figured on the Egyptian monuments, or embalmed, are closely similar or even identical with those now living -- yet all naturalists admit that such races have been produced through the modification of their original types.
"The many animals which have remained unchanged since the commencement of the glacial period, would have been an incomparably stronger case. These have been exposed to great changes of climate and have migrated over great distances.
"In Egypt, during the last several thousand years, the conditions of life, as far as we know, have remained absolutely uniform. The fact of little or no modification having been effected since the glacial period would have been of some avail against those who believe in an innate and necessary law of development. But is powerless against the doctrine of natural selection or the survival of the fittest -- which implies that when variations or individual differences of a beneficial nature happen to arise, these will be preserved -- but this will be effected only under certain favourable circumstances."
Comments, please?
Robby
More and more as I read this book I am realizing the emphasis that Darwin placed on environment.
Robby
I think many of us agreed at the start that his 19th century way of writing was often the obstacles but that his logic was extremely simple if we only took the time to follow his path of thinking.
Robby
"If both have become fitted for slightly different habits of life or conditions, they might live together.
"And if we lay on one side polymorphic species -- in which the variability seems to be of a peculiar nature, and all mere temporary variations, such as size, albinism, &c. -- the more permanent varieties are generally found, as far as I can discover, inhabiting distinct stations -- such as high land or low land, dry or moist districts.
"Moreover, in the case of animals which wander much about and cross freely, their varieties seem to be generally confined to distinct regions.
"Bronn also insists that distinct species never differ from each other in single characters, but in many parts.
"He asks, how it always comes that many parts of the organisation should have been modified at the same time through variation and natural selection.
"But there is no necessity for supposing that all the parts of any being have been simultaneously modified. The most striking modifications, excellently adapted for some purpose, might, as was formerly remarked, be acquired by successive variations -- if slight, first in one part and then in another. As they would be transmitted all together, they would appear to us as if they had been simultaneously developed.
"The best answer, however, to the above objection is afforded by those domestic races which have been modified -- chiefly through man's power of selection -- for some special purpose.
"Look at the race and dray horse, or at the greyhound and mastiff. Their whole frames and even their mental characteristics have been modified. If we could trace each step in the history of their transformation -- and the latter steps can be traced -- we should not see great and simultaneous changes, but first one part and then another slightly modified and improved.
"Even when selection has been applied by man to some one character alone -- of which our cultivated plants offer the best instances -- it will invariably be found that although this one part -- whether it be the flower, fruit, or leaves, has been greatly changed -- almost all the other parts have been slightly modified.
"This may be attributed partly to the principle of correlated growth, and partly to so-called spontaneous variation."
If I catch the above, Darwin is again emphasizing the importance of the environment. We don't find polar bears in the tropics. As for modifications, he says that they occur one at a time, not all the modifications at once. I find it interesting that Darwin sees mental characteristics, eg the greyhound, as having been modified by "man's power of selection."
Robby
"Bronn adduces the length of the ears and tails in the different species of hares and mice -- the complex folds of enamel in the teeth of many animals -- and a multitude of analogous cases.
"With respect to plants, this subject has been discussed by Nageli in an admirable essay. He admits that natural selection has effected much, but he insists that the families of plants differ chiefly from each other in morphological characters, which appear to be quite unimportant for the welfare of the species.
"He consequently believes in an innate tendency towards progressive and more perfect development. He specifies the arrangement of the cells in the tissues -- and of the leaves on the axis -- as cases in which natural selection could not have acted. To these may be added the numerical divisions in the parts of the flower -- the position of the ovules -- the shape of the seed -- when not of any use for dissemination, &c.
"There is much force in the above objection.
"Nevertheless, we ought, in the first place, to be extremely cautious in pretending to decide what structures now are, or have formerly been, use to each species.
"In the second place, it should always be borne in mind that when part is modified, so will be other parts, through certain dimly seen causes, such as an increased or diminished flow of nutriment to a part -- mutual pressure -- an early developed part affecting one subsequently developed, and so forth -- as well as through other causes which lead to the many mysterious cases of correlation, which we do not in the least understand.
"These agencies may be all grouped together -- for the sake of brevity -- under the expression of the laws of growth.
"In the third place, we have to allow for the direct and definite action of changed conditions of life -- and for so-called spontaneous variations -- in which the nature of the conditions apparently plays a quite subordinate part.
"Bud-variations, such as the appearance of a moss-rose on a common rose -- or of a nectarine on a peach tree -- offer good instances of spontaneous variations. But even in these cases -- if we bear in mind the power of a minute drop of poison in producing complex galls -- we ought not to feel too sure that the above variations are not the effect of some local change in the nature of the sap -- due to some change in the conditions.
"There must be some efficient cause for each slight individual difference, as well as for more strongly marked variations which occasionally arise.
"If the unknown cause were to act persistently, it is almost certain that all the individuals of the species would be similarly modified."
Your comments on these paragraphs, please?
Robby
"But it is impossible to attribute to this cause the innumerable structures which are so well adapted to the habits of life of each species.
"I can no more believe in this than that the well-adapted form of a race-horse or greyhound -- which before the principle of selection by man was well understood, excited so much surprise in the minds of the older naturalists -- can thus be explained.
"It may be worth while to illustrate some of the foregoing remarks.
"With respect to the assumed inutility of various parts and organs, it is hardly necessary to observe that even in the higher and best-known animals many structures exist -- which are so highly developed that no one doubts that they are of importance -- yet their use has not been, or has only recently been, ascertained.
"As Bronn gives the length of the ears and tail in the several species of mice as instances, though trifling ones, of differences in structure which can be of no special use, I may mention that, according to Dr. Schobl, the external ears of the common mouse are supplied in an extraordinary manner with nerves, so that they no doubt serve as tactile organs.
"Hence the length of the ears can hardly be quite unimportant.
"We shall, also, presently see that the tail is a highly useful prehensile organ to some of the species. Its use would be much influenced by its length."
As I understand this, Darwin is saying that every single organ in every species either has an important function now or that its precursor had an important function. Nothing existed without reason.
Robby
Where do you gather that last thought?
Darwin seems to say a lot of organs may exist, but there may not be a reason we see them?
Or perhaps there is not a reason.
Do you yourself, not Darwin, believe nothing exists without reason?
I sure don't. Did Darwin?
Does this sound more like a matter of philosophy, not of science?
I am open to hear other thoughts.
Robby
"But they are now known to be of the highest importance for the fertilisation of the species through the aid of insects, and have probably been gained through natural selection.
"No one until lately would have imagined that in dimorphic and trimorphic plants the different lengths of the stamens and pistils -- and their arrangement -- could have been of any service, but now we know this to be the case.
"In certain whole groups of plants the ovules stand erect. In others they are suspended. Within the same ovarium of some few plants, one ovule holds the former and a second ovule the latter position.
"These positions seem at first purely morphological, or of no physiological signification. But Dr. Hooker informs me that within the same ovarium, the upper ovules alone in some cases, and in other cases the lower ones alone are fertilised. He suggests that this probably depends on the direction in which the pollen-tubes enter the ovarium.
"If so, the position of the ovules -- even when one is erect and the other suspended within the same ovarium -- would follow from the selection of any slight deviations in position which favoured their fertilisation, and the production of seed."
Any comments on this paragraph?
Robby
"These two kinds of flowers sometimes differ wonderfully in structure, yet may be seen to graduate into each other on the same plant.
"The ordinary and open flowers can be intercrossed. The benefits which certainly are derived from this process are thus secured.
"The closed and imperfect flowers are, however, manifestly of high importance, as they yield with the utmost safety a large stock of seed, with the expenditure of wonderfully little pollen.
"The two kinds of flowers often differ much, as just stated, in structure. The petals in the imperfect flowers almost always consist of mere rudiments, and the pollen-grains are reduced in diameter.
"In Ononis columnae five of the alternate stamens are rudimentary. In some species of Viola three stamens are in this state, two retaining their proper function, but being of very small size.
"In six out of thirty of the closed flowers in an Indian violet -- name unknown, for the plants have never produced with me perfect flowers -- the sepals are reduced from the normal number of five to three.
"In one section of the Malpighiaceae the closed flowers, according to A. de Jussieu, are still further modified. The five stamens which stand opposite to the sepals are all aborted, sixth stamen standing opposite to a petal being alone developed.
"This stamen is not present in the ordinary flowers of these species. The style is aborted. The ovaria are reduced from three to two.
"Now although natural selection may well have had the power to prevent some of the flowers from expanding -- and to reduce the amount of pollen, when rendered by the closure of the flowers superfluous -- yet hardly any of the above special modifications can have been thus determined -- but must have followed from the laws of growth -- including the functional inactivity of parts -- during the progress of the reduction of the pollen and the closure of the flowers."
Any horticulturalists here?
Robby
Off subject: Robbie, I'll be at the Oct conference on Sat, so perhaps we'll have a chance to meet!
Robby
"In the Spanish chestnut, and in certain fir-trees, the angles of divergence of the leaves differ, according to Schacht, in the nearly horizontal and in the upright branches.
"In the common rue and some other plants, one flower -- usually the central or terminal one -- opens first, and has five sepals and petals, and five divisions to the ovarium. All the other flowers on the plant are tetramerous.
"In the British Adoxa the uppermost flower generally has two calyx-lobes with the other organs tetramerous, whilst the surrounding flowers generally have three calyx-lobes with the other organs pentamerous.
"In many Compositae and Umbelliferae -- and in some other plants -- the circumferential flowers have their corollas much more developed than those of the centre. This seems often connected with the abortion of the reproductive organs.
"It is a more curious fact, previously referred to, that the achenes or seeds of the circumference and centre sometimes differ greatly in form, colour, and other characters.
"In Carthamus and some other Compositae the central achenes alone are furnished with a pappus. In Hyoseris the same head yields achenes of three different forms.
"In certain Umbelliferae the exterior seeds, according to Tausch, are orthospermous, and the central one coelospermous. This is a character which was considered by De Candolle to be in other species of the highest systematic importance.
"Prof. Braun mentions a Fumariaceous genus, in which the flowers in the lower part of the spike bear oval, ribbed, one-seeded nutlets -- and in the upper part of the spike, lanceolate, two-valved, and two-seeded siliques.
"In these several cases -- with the exception of that of the well developed rayflorets, which are of service in making the flowers conspicuous to insects -- natural selection cannot, as far as we can judge, have come into play -- or only in a quite subordinate manner.
"All these modifications follow from the relative position and inter-action of the parts. It can hardly be doubted that if all the flowers and leaves on the same plant had been subjected to the same external and internal condition -- as are the flowers and leaves in certain positions -- all would have been modified in the same manner."
I haven't the slightest understanding of all those botanical terms but I think he is giving some examples where the different locations of various organs on the plant determine their function. Yes? No?
Robby
Robby
"As these variations seem of no special use to the plants, they cannot have been influenced by natural selection.
"Of their cause we are quite ignorant. We cannot even attribute them, as in the last class of cases, to any proximate agency, such as relative position.
"I will give only a few instances. It is so common to observe on the same plant, flowers indifferently tetramerous, pentamerous, &c., that I need not give examples. But as numerical variations are comparatively rare when the parts are few, I may mention that, according to De Candolle, the flowers of Papaver bracteatum offer either two sepals with four petals (which is the common type with poppies), or three sepals with six petals.
"The manner in which the petals are folded in the bud is in most groups a very constant morphological character. Professor Asa Gray states that with some species of Mimulus, the aestivation is almost as frequently that of the Rhinanthideae as of the Antirrhinideae, to which latter tribe the genus belongs.
"Auguste de Saint-Hilaire gives the following cases -- the genus Zanthoxylon belongs to a division of the Rutacese with a single ovary, but in some species flowers may be found on the same plant -- and even in the same panicle, with either one or two ovaries.
"In Helianthemum the capsule has been described as unilocular or trilocular; and in H. mutabile, "Une lame, plus ou moins large, s'etend entre le pericarpe et le placenta."
"In the flowers of Saponaria officinalis, Dr. Masters has observed instances of both marginal and free central placentation.
"Lastly, Saint-Hilaire found towards the southern extreme of the range of Gomphia oleaeformis two forms which he did not at first doubt were distinct species, but he subsequently saw them growing on the same bush.
"He then adds, "Voila donc dans un meme individu des loges et un style qui se rattachent tantot a un axe verticale et tantot a un gynobase."
As usual, I am ignorant when it comes to horticultural terms and Bubble will help us to translate the French. However -- this surprises me. Darwin says: "As these variations seem of no special use to the plants, they cannot have been influenced by natural selection." I thought that every variation was influenced by natural selection. Isn't he contradicting everything he has been telling us so far?
Robby
Robby
In other words, Nature selects (natural selection) but it has to have something to select from. Changes are made through mutation and Nature says: "I like this because it benefits the plant. I don't like that because it is not beneficial."
I realize I am anthropomorphizing Nature but you get what I mean.
If there were never any mutations -- if everything was static -- there would be no natural selection and life would be exactly as it was millions of years ago.
Robby
So all sorts of mutations are occuring and Nature is having one heck of a job trying to figure out what is the most beneficial for the plants.
Robby
"But with respect to Nageli's doctrine of an innate tendency towards perfection or progressive development, can it be said in the case of these strongly pronounced variations -- that the plants have been caught in the act of progressing towards a higher state of development?
"On the contrary, I should infer from the mere fact of the parts in question differing or varying greatly on the same plant -- that such modifications were of extremely small importance to the plants themselves -- of whatever importance they may generally be to us for our classifications.
"The acquisition of a useless part can hardly be said to raise an organism in the natural scale. In the case of the imperfect, closed flowers above described -- if any new principle has to be invoked -- it must be one of retrogression rather than of progression.
"So it must be with many parasitic and degraded animals.
"We are ignorant of the exciting cause of the above specified modifications. But if the unknown cause were to act almost uniformly for a length of time, we may infer that the result would be almost uniform.
"In this case all the individuals of the species would be modified in the same manner."
Any comments?
Robby
"A structure which has been developed through long-continued selection -- when it ceases to be of service to a species -- generally becomes variable, as we see with rudimentary organs. For it will no longer be regulated by this same power of selection.
"But when -- from the nature of the organism and of the conditions, modifications have been induced which are unimportant for the welfare of the species -- they may be -- and apparently often have been -- transmitted in nearly the same state to numerous, otherwise modified, descendants.
"It cannot have been of much importance to the greater number of mammals, birds, or reptiles, whether they were clothed with hair, feathers, or scales. Yet hair has been transmitted to almost all mammals, feathers to all birds, and scales to all true reptiles.
"A structure -- whatever it may be, which is common to many allied forms -- is ranked by us as of high systematic importance -- and consequently is often assumed to be of high vital importance to the species. Thus -- as I am inclined to believe -- differences, which we consider as important -- such as the arrangement of the leaves, the divisions of the flower or of the ovarium, the position of the ovules, &c. -- first appeared in many cases as fluctuating variations, which sooner or later became constant through the nature of the organism and of the surrounding conditions -- as well as through the intercrossing of distinct individuals -- but not through natural selection.
"As these morphological characters do not affect the welfare of the species, any slight deviations in them could not have been governed or accumulated through this latter agency.
"It is a strange result which we thus arrive at -- namely that characters of slight vital importance to the species, are the most important to the systematist. But, as we shall hereafter see when we treat of the genetic principle of classification, this is by no means so paradoxical as it may at first appear."
Anyone here want to unscramble this?
Robby
Robby
"The best definition which has ever been given of a high standard of organisation, is the degree to which the parts have been specialised or differentiated. Natural selection tends towards this end. The parts are thus enabled to perform their functions more efficiently.
"A distinguished zoologist, Mr. St. George Mivart, has recently collected all the objections which have ever been advanced by myself and others against the theory of natural selection, as propounded by Mr. Wallace and myself -- and has illustrated them with admirable art and force.
"When thus marshalled, they make a formidable array. As it forms no part of Mr. Mivart's plan to give the various facts and considerations opposed to his conclusions, no slight effort of reason and memory is left to the reader, who may wish to weigh the evidence on both sides.
"When discussing special cases, Mr. Mivart passes over the effects of the increased use and disuse of parts, which I have always maintained to be highly important -- and have treated in my Variation under Domestication at greater length than, as I believe, any other writer.
"He likewise often assumes that I attribute nothing to variation, independently of natural selection, whereas in the work just referred to I have collected a greater number of well-established cases than can be found in any other work known to me.
"My judgment may not be trustworthy -- but after reading with care Mr. Mivart's book, and comparing each section with what I have said on the same head -- I never before felt so strongly convinced of the general truth of the conclusions here arrived at, subject, of course, in so intricate a subject, to much partial error."
If I am following this, Darwin says that constant natural selection leads to "innate tendencies." Natural selection leads toward specialization and differentiation. This, in turn, leads to a high standard of organization. The organism therefore performs more efficiently. Darwin goes on to say that, in his opinion, the use and/or disuse of parts in the organism is extremely important. He used, as examples, the various animals that Man has domesticated.
Robby
Robby
"The one new point which appears to have struck many readers is, "that natural selection is incompetent to account for the incipient stages of useful structures."
"This subject is intimately connected with that of the gradation of characters -- often accompanied by a change of function -- for instance, the conversion of a swimbladder into lungs -- points which were discussed in the last chapter under two headings.
"Nevertheless, I will here consider in some detail several of the cases advanced by Mr. Mivart, selecting those which are the most illustrative, as want of space prevents me from considering all.
"The giraffe, by its lofty stature, much elongated neck, fore-legs, head and tongue, has its whole frame beautifully adapted for browsing on the higher branches of trees.
"It can thus obtain food beyond the reach of the other Ungulata or hoofed animals inhabiting the same country; and this must be a great advantage to it during dearths.
"The Niata cattle in S. America show us how small a difference in structure may make, during such periods, a great difference in preserving an animal's life.
"These cattle can browse as well as others on grass, but from the projection of the lower jaw they cannot -- during the often recurrent droughts -- browse on the twigs of trees, reeds, &c., to which food the common cattle and horses are then driven. At these times the Niatas perish, if not fed by their owners.
"Before coming to Mr. Mivart's objections, it may be well to explain once again how natural selection will act in all ordinary cases.
"Man has modified some of his animals -- without necessarily having attended to special points of structure -- by simply preserving and breeding from the fleetest individuals, as with the race-horse and greyhound -- or as with the game-cock, by breeding from the victorious birds.
"So under nature with the nascent giraffe the individuals which were the highest browsers, and were able during dearths to reach even an inch or two above the others, will often have been preserved. They will have roamed over the whole country in search of food.
"That the individuals of the same species often differ slightly in the relative lengths of all their parts may be seen in many works of natural history, in which careful measurements are given. These slight proportional differences -- due to the laws of growth and variation -- are not of the slightest use or importance to most species.
"But it will have been otherwise with the nascent giraffe, considering its probable habits of life. For those individuals which had some one part or several parts of their bodies rather more elongated than usual, would generally have survived. These will have intercrossed and left offspring -- either inheriting the same bodily peculiarities, or with a tendency to vary again in the same manner -- whilst the individuals, less favoured in the same respects, will have been the most liable to perish."
I think Darwin is saying that even the slightest different in structure can determine if a species survives -- e.g. the length of the giraffe's neck. The man with the longest legs escapes the lion?
Robby
"Natural selection will preserve and thus separate all the superior individuals -- allowing them freely to intercross -- and will destroy all the inferior individuals.
"By this process long-continued, which exactly corresponds with what I have called unconscious selection by man -- combined no doubt in a most important manner with the inherited effects of the increased use of parts -- it seems to me almost certain that an ordinary hoofed quadruped might be converted into a giraffe.
"To this conclusion Mr. Mivart brings forward two objections.
"One is that the increased size of the body would obviously require an increased supply of food, and he considers it as "very problematical whether the disadvantages thence arising would not -- in times of scarcity -- more than counterbalance the advantages."
"But as the giraffe does actually exist in large numbers in S. Africa -- and as some of the largest antelopes in the world, taller than an ox, abound there -- why should we doubt that, as far as size is concerned, intermediate gradations could formerly have existed there, subjected as now to severe dearths.
"Assuredly their being able to reach, at each stage of increased size, to a supply of food, left untouched by the other hoofed quadrupeds of the country, would have been of some advantage to the nascent giraffe.
"Nor must we overlook the fact, that increased bulk would act as a protection against almost all beasts of prey excepting the lion. Against this animal, its tall neck -- and the taller the better -- would, as Mr. Chauncey Wright has remarked, serve as a watch-tower.
"It is from this cause, as Sir S. Baker remarks, that no animal is more difficult to stalk than the giraffe. This animal also uses its long neck as a means of offence or defence, by violently swinging his head armed with stump-like horns.
"The preservation of each species can rarely be determined by any one advantage, but by the union of all, great and small."
Your comments, please?
Robby
"Or, again, why has not any member of the group acquired a long proboscis?
"With respect to S. Africa, which was formerly inhabited by numerous herds of the giraffe, the answer is not difficult, and can best be given by an illustration. In every meadow in England in which trees grow, we see the lower branches trimmed or planed to an exact level by the browsing of the horses or cattle; and what advantage would it be, for instance, to sheep, if kept there, to acquire slightly longer necks?
"In every district some one kind of animal will almost certainly be able to browse higher than the others. It is almost equally certain that this one kind alone could have its neck elongated for this purpose, through natural selection and the effects of increased use.
"In S. Africa the competition for browsing on the higher branches of the acacias and other trees must be between giraffe and giraffe, and not with the other ungulate animals.
"Why, in other quarters of the world, various animals belonging to this same order have not acquired either an elongated neck or a proboscis, cannot be distinctly answered. It is as unreasonable to expect a distinct answer to such a question, as why some event in the history of mankind did not occur in one country, whilst it did in another.
"We are ignorant with respect to the conditions which determine the numbers and range of each species. We cannot even conjecture what changes of structure would be favourable to its increase in some new country.
"We can, however, see in a general manner that various causes might have interfered with the development of a long neck or proboscis. To reach the foliage at a considerable height -- without climbing, for which hoofed animals are singularly ill-constructed -- implies greatly increased bulk of body.
"We know that some areas support singularly few large quadrupeds, for instance S. America, though it is so luxuriant. S. Africa abounds with them to an unparalleled degree. Why this should be so, we do not know; nor why the later tertiary periods should have been so much more favourable for their existence than the present time.
Whatever the causes may have been, we can see that certain districts and times would have been much more favourable than others for the development of so large a quadruped as the giraffe."
Any thoughts as to why this is so?
Robby
"Although every part of the body varies slightly, it does not follow that the necessary parts should always vary in the right direction and to the right degree. With the different species of our domesticated animals we know that the parts vary in a different manner and degree -- and that some species are much more variable than others.
"Even if the fitting variations did arise, it does not follow that natural selection would be able to act on them, and produce a structure which apparently would be beneficial to the species.
"For instance, if the number of individuals existing in a country is determined chiefly through destruction by beasts of prey,- by external or internal parasites, &c. -- as seems often to be the case, then natural selection will be able to do little, or will be greatly retarded, in modifying any particular structure for obtaining food.
"Lastly, natural selection is a slow process, and the same favourable conditions must long endure in order that any marked effect should thus be produced.
"Except by assigning such general and vague reasons, we cannot explain why -- in many quarters of the world -- hoofed quadrupeds have not acquired much elongated necks or other means for browsing on the higher branches of trees."
Everyone in agreement?
Robby
Robby
"In each case various causes -- besides the general ones just indicated -- have probably interfered with the acquisition through natural selection of structures, which it is thought would be beneficial to certain species.
"One writer asks, why has not the ostrich acquired the power of flight? But a moment's reflection will show what an enormous supply of food would be necessary to give to this bird of the desert force to move its huge body through the air.
"Oceanic islands are inhabited by bats and seals, but by no terrestrial mammals. Yet as some of these bats are peculiar species, they must have long inhabited their present homes. Therefore Sir C. Lyell asks, and assigns certain reasons in answer, why have not seals and bats given birth on such islands to forms fitted to live on the land?
"But seals would necessarily be first converted into terrestrial carnivorous animals of considerable size, and bats into terrestrial insectivorous animals. For the former there would be no prey. For the bats ground-insects would serve as food, but these would already be largely preyed on by the reptiles or birds, which first colonise and abound on most oceanic islands.
"Gradations of structure, with each stage beneficial to a changing species, will be favoured only under certain peculiar conditions.
"A strictly terrestrial animal, by occasionally hunting for food in shallow water, then in streams or lakes, might at last be converted into an animal so thoroughly aquatic as to brave the open ocean. But seals would not find on oceanic islands the conditions favourable to their gradual reconversion into a terrestrial form.
"Bats, as formerly shown, probably acquired their wings by at first gliding through the air from tree to tree -- like the so-called flying squirrels, for the sake of escaping from their enemies -- or for avoiding falls. But when the power of true flight had once been acquired, it would never be reconverted back, at least for the above purposes, into the less efficient power of gliding through the air.
"Bats might, indeed, like many birds, have had their wings greatly reduced in size, or completely lost, through disuse. But in this case it would be necessary that they should first have acquired the power of running quickly on the ground -- by the aid of their hind legs alone -- so as to compete with birds or other ground animals. For such a change a bat seems singularly ill-fitted.
"These conjectural remarks have been made merely to show that a transition of structure -- with each step beneficial -- is a highly complex affair. There is nothing strange in a transition not having occurred in any particular case."
What are your thoughts here?
Robby
"Why have not apes acquired the intellectual powers of man?
"Various causes could be assigned. As they are conjectural, and their relative probability cannot be weighed, it would be useless to give them.
"A definite answer to the latter question ought not to be expected, seeing that no one can solve the simpler problem why -- of two races of savages -- one has risen higher in the scale of civilisation than the other. This apparently implies increased brain-power.
"We will return to Mr. Mivart's other objections.
"Insects often resemble for the sake of protection various objects, such as green or decayed leaves, dead twigs, bits of lichen, flowers, spines, excrement of birds, and living insects. To this latter point I shall hereafter recur.
"The resemblance is often wonderfully close, and is not confined to colour, but extends to form, and even to the manner in which the insects hold themselves. The caterpillars which project motionless like dead twigs from the bushes on which they feed, offer an excellent instance of a resemblance of this kind. The cases of the imitation of such objects as the excrement of birds, are rare and exceptional.
"On this head, Mr. Mivart remarks, "As, according to Mr. Darwin's theory, there is a constant tendency to indefinite variation -- and as the minute incipient variations will be in all directions -- they must tend to neutralise each other -- and at first to form such unstable modifications that it is difficult, if not impossible, to see how such indefinite oscillations of infinitesimal beginnings can ever build up a sufficiently appreciable resemblance to a leaf, bamboo, or other object -- for Natural Selection to seize upon and perpetuate."
Darwin, at least at this point, refuses to conjecture why apes have not acquired the mental powers of man, Anyone here want to take that leap?
Robby
Robby
Robby
"Nor is this at all improbable, considering the almost infinite number of surrounding objects and the diversity in form and colour of the hosts of insects which exist.
"As some rude resemblance is necessary for the first start, we can understand how it is that the larger and higher animals do not -- with the exception, as far as I know, of one fish -- resemble for the sake of protection special objects, but only the surface which commonly surrounds them, and this chiefly in colour.
"Assuming that an insect originally happened to resemble in some degree a dead twig or a decayed leaf, and that it varied slightly in many ways, then all the variations which rendered the insect at all more like any such object, and thus favoured its escape, would be preserved. Other variations would be neglected and ultimately lost. If they rendered the insect at all less like the imitated object, they would be eliminated.
"There would indeed be force in Mr. Mivart's objection, if we were to attempt to account for the above resemblances, independently of natural selection, through mere fluctuating variability. As the case stands there is none.
"Nor can I see any force in Mr. Mivart's difficulty with respect to "the last touches of perfection in the mimicry" -- as in the case given by Mr. Wallace, of a walking-stick insect (Ceroxylus laceratus) -- which resembles "a stick grown over by a creeping moss or jungermannia."
"So close was this resemblance, that a native Dyak maintained that the foliaceous excrescences were really moss.
"Insects are preyed on by birds and other enemies, whose sight is probably sharper than ours. Every grade in resemblance which aided an insect to escape notice or detection, would tend towards its preservation. The more perfect the resemblance so much the better for the insect.
"Considering the nature of the differences between the species in the group which includes the above Ceroxylus, there is nothing improbable in this insect having varied in the irregularities on its surface, and in these having become more or less green-coloured.
"In every group the characters which differ in the several species are the most apt to vary. The generic characters, or those common to all the species, are the most constant."
Darwin says that the larger and higher animals do not resemble for the sake of protection special objects -- but only the surface which surrounds them. Do you folks agree with that?
Robby
Robby
"The baleen consists of a row, on each side of the upper jaw, of about 300 plates or laminae, which stand close together transversely to the longer axis of the mouth. Within the main row there are some subsidiary rows.
"The extremities and inner margins of all the plates are frayed into stiff bristles, which clothe the whole gigantic palate, and serve to strain or sift the water, and thus to secure the minute prey on which these great animals subsist.
"The middle and longest lamina in the Greenland whale is ten, twelve, or even fifteen feet in length. In the different species of cetaceans there are gradations in length -- the middle lamina being in one species, according to Scoresby, four feet -- in another three -- in another eighteen inches -- and in the Balaenoptera rostrata only about nine inches in length.
"The quality of the whale-bone also differs in the different species.
"With respect to the baleen, Mr. Mivart remarks that if it "had once attained such a size and development as to be at all useful, then its preservation and augmentation within serviceable limits would be promoted by natural selection alone.
"But how to obtain the beginning of such useful development?" In answer, it may be asked, why should not the early progenitors of the whales with baleen have possessed a mouth constructed something like the lamellated beak of a duck?
"Ducks, like whales, subsist by sifting the mud and water. The family has sometimes been called Criblatores, or sifters.
"I hope that I may not be misconstrued into saying that the progenitors of whales did actually possess mouths lamellated like the beak of a duck.
"I wish only to show that this is not incredible, and that the immense plates of baleen in the Greenland whale might have been developed from such lamellae by finely graduated steps, each of service to its possessor."
As we continue to read Darwin, I'm almost coming to the conclusion that anything is possible!
Robby
"They arise from the palate, and are attached by flexible membrane to the sides of the mandible. Those standing towards the middle are the longest, being about one-third of an inch in length, and they project .14 of an inch beneath the edge.
"At their bases there is a short subsidiary row of obliquely transverse lamellae.
"In these several respects they resemble the plates of baleen in the mouth of a whale. But towards the extremity of the beak they differ much, as they project inwards, instead of straight downwards.
"The entire head of the shoveller, though incomparably less bulky, is about one-eighteenth of the length of the head of a moderately large Balaenoptera rostrata, in which species the baleen is only nine inches long.
"If we were to make the head of the shoveller as long as that of the Balaenoptera, the lamellae would be six inches in length -- that is, two-thirds of the length of the baleen in this species of whale. The lower mandible of the shoveller-duck is furnished with lamellae of equal length with those above, but finer.
"In being thus furnished it differs conspicuously from the lower jaw of a whale, which is destitute of baleen. On the other hand the extremities of these lower lamellae are frayed into fine bristly points, so that they thus curiously resemble the plates of baleen.
"In the genus Prion, a member of the distinct family of the petrels, the upper mandible alone is furnished with lamellae, which are well developed and project beneath the margin; so that the beak of this bird resembles in this respect the mouth of a whale.
"From the highly developed structure of the shoveller's beak we may proceed -- as I have learnt from information and specimens sent to me by Mr. Salvin -- without any great break, as far as fitness for sifting is concerned, through the beak of the Merganetta armata, and in some respects through that of the Aix sponsa, to the beak of the common duck.
"In this latter species, the lamellae are much coarser than in the shoveller, and are firmly attached to the sides of the mandible. They are only about 50 in number on each side, and do not project at all beneath the margin.
"They are square-topped, and are edged with translucent hardish tissue, as if for crushing food. The edges of the lower mandible are crossed by numerous fine ridges, which project very little.
"Although the beak is thus very inferior as a sifter to that of the shoveller, yet this bird, as every one knows, constantly uses it for this purpose. There are other species, as I hear from Mr. Salvin, in which the lamellae are considerably less developed than in the common duck.
"I do not know whether they use their beaks for sifting the water."
I know nothing about ducks and whales and don't intend to study to the point of Darwin's knowledge so I'll take his word for it that -- believe it or not -- there are similarites in the structures of whales and ducks.
Robby
"But the lamellae are not so numerous, nor so distinct from each other, nor do they project so much inwards. Yet this goose, as I am informed by Mr. E. Bartlett, "uses its bill like a duck by throwing the water out at the corners."
"Its chief food, however, is grass, which it crops like the common goose.
"In this latter bird, the lamellae of the upper mandible are much coarser than in the common duck, almost confluent, about 27 in number on each side, and terminating upwards in teeth-like knobs. The palate is also covered with hard rounded knobs. The edges of the lower mandible are serrated with teeth much more prominent, coarser, and sharper than in the duck.
"The common goose does not sift the water, but uses its beak exclusively for tearing or cutting herbage, for which purpose it is so well fitted, that it can crop grass closer than almost any other animal. There are other species of geese, as I hear from Mr. Bartlett, in which the lamellae are less developed than in the common goose.
"We thus see that a member of the duck family, with a beak constructed like that of the common goose and adapted solely for grazing, or even a member with a beak having less well-developed lamellae, might be converted by small changes into a species like the Egyptian goose -- this into one like the common duck -- and, lastly, into one like the shoveller, provided with a beak almost exclusively adapted for sifting the water. For this bird could hardly use any part of its beak, except the hooked tip, for seizing or tearing solid food.
"The beak of a goose, as I may add, might also be converted by small changes into one provided with prominent, recurved teeth, like those of the merganser (a member of the same family), serving for the widely different purpose of securing live fish."
Darwin says that "a member of the duck family might be converted by small changes into a species like a goose." In other words, one species can be changed into another.
Robby
"Mr. Mivart asks: "Is it conceivable that the young of any animal was ever saved from destruction by accidentally sucking a drop of scarcely nutritious fluid from an accidentally hypertrophied cutaneous gland of its mother? And even if one was so, what chance was there of the perpetuation of such a variation?"
"But the case is not here put fairly. It is admitted by most evolutionists that mammals are descended from a marsupial form. If so, the mammary glands will have been at first developed within the marsupial sack.
"In the case of the fish (Hippocampus) the eggs are hatched, and the young are reared for a time, within a sack of this nature. An American naturalist, Mr. Lockwood, believes from what he has seen of the development of the young, that they are nourished by a secretion from the cutaneous glands of the sack.
"Now with the early progenitors of mammals, almost before they deserved to be thus designated, is it not at least possible that the young might have been similarly nourished? And in this case, the individuals which secreted a fluid -- in some degree or manner the most nutritious, so as to partake of the nature of milk -- would in the long run have reared a larger number of well-nourished offspring, than would the individuals which secreted a poorer fluid.
"Thus the cutaneous glands, which are the homologues of the mammary glands, would have been improved or rendered more effective. It accords with the widely extended principle of specialisation -- that the glands over a certain space of the sack should have become more highly developed than the remainder -- and they would then have formed a breast -- but at first without a nipple as we see in the Ornithorhynchus, at the base of the mammalian series.
"Through what agency the glands over a certain space became more highly specialised than the others, I will not pretend to decide, whether in part through compensation of growth, the effects of use, or of natural selection.
"The development of the mammary glands would have been of no service, and could not have been effected through natural selection, unless the young at the same time were able to partake of the secretion.
"There is no greater difficulty in understanding how young mammals have instinctively learnt to suck the breast, than in understanding how unhatched chickens have learnt to break the egg-shell by tapping against it with their specially adapted beaks -- or how a few hours after leaving the shell they have learnt to pick up grains of food.
"In such cases the most probable solution seems to be, that the habit was at first acquired by practice at a more advanced age, and afterwards transmitted to the offspring at an earlier age.
"But the young kangaroo is said not to suck, only to cling to the nipple of its mother, who has the power of injecting milk into the mouth of her helpless, half-formed offspring. On this head,
"Mr. Mivart remarks: "Did no special provision exist, the young one must infallibly be choked by the intrusion of the milk into the windpipe. But there is a special provision. The larynx is so elongated that it rises up into the posterior end of the nasal passage, and is thus enabled to give free entrance to the air for the lungs, while the milk passes harmlessly on each side of this elongated larynx, and so safely attains the gullet behind it."
"Mr. Mivart then asks how did natural selection remove in the adult kangaroo -- and in most other mammals on the assumption that they are descended from a marsupial form) -- "this at least perfectly innocent and harmless structure?"
"It may be suggested in answer that the voice, which is certainly of high importance to many animals, could hardly have been used with full force as long as the larynx entered the nasal passage. Professor Flower has suggested to me that this structure would have greatly interfered with an animal swallowing solid food."
Women's breasts evolving from the sac of male seahorses?
Robby
Robby
"The Echinodermata (star-fishes, sea-urchins, &c.) are furnished with remarkable organs, called pedicellariae, which consist, when well developed, of a tridactyle forceps- that is, of one formed of three serrated arms, neatly fitting together and placed on the summit of a flexible stem, moved by muscles.
"These forceps can firmly seize hold of any object. Alexander Agassiz has seen an Echinus or sea-urchin rapidly passing particles of excrement from forceps to forceps down certain lines of its body, in order that its shell should not be fouled.
"But there is no doubt that besides removing dirt of all kinds, they subserve other functions; and one of these apparently is defence.
"With respect to these organs, Mr. Mivart, as on so many previous occasions, asks: "What would be the utility of the first rudimentary beginnings of such structures. How could such incipient buddings have ever preserved the life of a single Echinus?"
"He adds, "Not even the sudden development of the snapping action could have been beneficial without the freely moveable stalk, nor could the latter have been efficient without the snapping jaws. Yet no minute merely indefinite variations could simultaneously evolve these complex co-ordinations of structure. To deny this seems to do no less than to affirm a startling paradox."
"Paradoxical as this may appear to Mr. Mivart, tridactyle forcepses -- immovably fixed at the base, but capable of a snapping action -- certainly exist on some starfishes. This is intelligible if they serve, at least in part, as a means of defence.
"Mr. Agassiz, to whose great kindness I am indebted for much information on the subject, informs me that there are other star-fishes, in which one of the three arms of the forceps is reduced to a support for the other two -- and again, other genera in which the third arm is completely lost.
"In Echinoneus, the shell is described by M. Perrier as bearing two kinds of pedicellariae, one resembling those of Echinus, and the other those of Spatangus. Such cases are always interesting as affording the means of apparently sudden transitions, through the abortion of one of the two states of an organ."
Any comments about these starfishes?
Robby
"It cannot be denied that such abrupt and great changes of structure are widely different from those which most species apparently have undergone.
"He will further be compelled to believe that many structures beautifully adapted to all the other parts of the same creature and to the surrounding conditions, have been suddenly produced; and of such complex and wonderful co-adaptations. He will not be able to assign a shadow of an explanation.
"He will be forced to admit that these great and sudden transformations have left no trace of their action on the embryo. To admit all this is, as it seems to me, to enter into the realms of miracle, and to leave those of Science.
Darwin is very clear here.
Robby
Instinct
"I may here premise that I have nothing to do with the origin of the mental powers, any more than I have with that of life itself. We are concerned only with the diversities of instinct and of the other mental faculties in animals of the same class.
"I will not attempt any definition of instinct.
"It would be easy to show that several distinct mental actions are commonly embraced by this term. But every one understands what is meant, when it is said that instinct impels the cuckoo to migrate and to lay her eggs in other birds' nests.
"An action, which we ourselves require experience to enable us to perform -- when performed by an animal, more especially by a very young one, without experience -- and when performed by many individuals in the same way, without their knowing for what purpose it is performed -- is usually said to be instinctive.
"But I could show that none of these characters are universal. A little dose of judgment or reason, as Pierre Huber expresses it, often comes into play, even with animals low in the scale of nature."
This chapter should be fun!
Robby