Jackie; Ginny and you and I, as well as Larry, I think Ed and possibly Ros. have all expressed an interest in this book. Ginny has noted that she thinks Ros even has a copy of the O.E.D.

It seems relatively short and probably quite bizarre. I'm anxiously looking forward to this discussion.

Best

LJ

LJ: In addition to being the greatest reference work of all time, this was the first true English dictionary. Which I'm sure we will all learn more about. Lucky Ros to possess her own copy! Also, I read where Mel Gibson has optioned this story. I wonder which character he will play...

The book is easy to read. I can see why Mel Gibson is interested in the "story". Each chapter is introduced with an entry from the OED, with the complete etymology of the word, followed by the definition. "Murder" takes up nearly a whole page! I work in Mental Health, as a clerk, but I observe and learn. We do not appreciate what advances Medicine has made until we see a tragedy played out to its inevitable end, a tragedy which could be alleviated today with a single prescription. Of course, you may argue, where would the OED be today without Dr. Minor's help. Who knows?

While waiting for my plane in NYC I wandered through a book store and saw this. It looks very interesting and will get it and read in time for the discussion. Also bought a book "MIDWIVES" which someone had recommended and started on it. Perhaps someone else has read it? It contains background material on birthing at home (old myths and methods).

Ella: Welcome. glad you are joining us. This book has me enthralled. It is a real page turner.

Midwives got a good review from a co-worker, she is an RN. She will lend it to me when her family is through with it. There is a new PB mystery series about a midwife in Revolutionary times. The first one was very good.

Is "The Profesor and the Madman" available thru B&N or Amazon online?Soft cover? W.

Walter: It is on the NY Times list, #6 I think. I bought mine, hardback, over the counter; B&N discounts the NY Times list books 30% (OTC) -- it was around $18 or $16.

Walter, (WALTER!!!! Now I know what our Walter looks like!! And Lorraine!! What super fun, will tell more about YOU when your picture comes up!! hahahahhaha) But just in case you all are dying in suspense, our Walter is tall handsome, and super nice. What a great guy! And I loved Lorraine, she's got a marvelous sense of humor, and is pretty, they are both fabulous. AND their daughter, Barbara, who is gorgeous, will be coming in to OUR BOOKS soon, as she's not happy with those groups on the Washington Post, naturally she'll prefer ours! So it was a great day all around. Walter has, in addition, volunteered to be our own personal Publisher's Clearing House, so he'll plan to mail out any sweats or goods you desire to buy, he loved the experience so much at the Luncheon! I will never forget the look on his face as we were leaving the Luncheon, there he was all ready with Lorraine and Rex and Irene for a nice night on the town, happily making for the door when one of us spotted the humongo box of heavy SN stuff remaining on table. "Walter," I whined, you ARE going to take this with, aren't you?"

He looked at it with the same affection you feel for a scorpion, gulped, and bravely said, "Sure!"

Bless his heart. I bet the waitresses thought he was a little strange with his box in tow! hhahahahahahahaha

The coat check girls at the Tavern on the Green wanted a sweat shirt, I did enjoy shlepping mine all over town, too. Such fun. The sweats got to go to the Tavern and then to Ragtime! Educated sweats!!

ANYWAY, I clicked on Larry's little box at the top after B&N told me twice there was no such book and voila! $15.60 so I thought that was a pretty good price and ordered one, too.

Ginny

Anyone need a SeniorNet Tee shirt? I've got a whole garage full! (...a little SN-NYC Book Group humor!)

JACKIE; Thanx for the tip...I picked up a copy of "The Professor..." and "Longitude" last nite at the local B&N and I'm already half way thru "Professor". Excellent choice!

I first heard about this book from an NPR discussion with Mr. Winchester. I love words so I went to the bookstore for it. This was the week Before it came out on the NY Times list, so no one knew what I was talking about. I ordered 3 copies and 2 will be Christmas gifts. To date that bookstore has sold only 3 copies of the book. I'm glad to have found this site!

Welcome, Steve Goepp!!! We're glad you've found this site, too!!!

I've sent you some information that I hope will help you find your way around to some of our other discussions and folders as well as here in Books and Literature - we have almost 300 topics so there's bound to be something of interest!

Steve!! Welcome, Welcome!

You are so right about the Professor book, what a thoughtful gift giver you are, too... I imagine everybody wants to get on your gift list!

We have a financial planner nearby whose last name is Goepper...pronounced "gepper." That's very close to the spelling of your name. Is it Dutch?

I got my copy yesterday and was surprised at how short the book is. I guess I thought it would be 900 pages long, since the OED is such a monster....

Am looking forward to the book discussion, am so glad you've decided to join us, and hope to hear lots more from you in the future!

Ginny

Steve: Welcome. Glad to have you. We are reading nuts here, I keep putting more books on my list, can't read fast enough to keep up. Just joking, as I'm sure you can tell, but look over the other fiction and non-fiction titles on our list.

Simon Winchester provides us with titles of other books about the OED, and about lexicography.

Hi All; Happy New Year to everyone!

I know I'm premature with this post, but I just finished "The Professor.." and wanted to alert any skeptics out there that the book is a lot better than the title suggests.A very worthwhile read...and short too!

See you online...

Walter: My sentiments, exactly. Simon Winchester is a very compassionate, intellectual writer. A very good read. Glad to have you with us.

I'm just now starting this one: Can you imagine the meeting of the three strangers; Dr Murray, the editor, Dr Minor, the inmate (Not present), and the "Governor" of the Lunatic Asylum.?

Best

LJ

LJ: That must have been quite a scene. Where I work, the old County Hospital, has the Medi-Cal psych patients. The State pays only for Acute days, so they are in and out within 1 - 5 days. Dr. Minor's stay was, what, 40 years? The difference modern medicine can make.

LJ & JL: With today's medication,Dr.Minor too, would have been out of the hospital in a year or two only to spend the rest of his life on parole,sleeping in a cardboard shipping crate outside Penn Station and we wouldn't have the Oxford English Dictionary!

Walter: That puts things in perspective. I had thought of the waste of his life. His incarceration prevented him from the joys of freedom, of sleeping in a box, etc. Thanks, I feel better now. The OED probably would have been completed without him, but it would have been the poorer. I'm not a fatalist, but the permutations of What If ... So many unique events in the chain of circumstance.

My son-in-law gave me a copy of "The Professor and the Madman" recently since he thought it was a terrific book. I'm almost half way through it now and am enjoying it immensely.

As a previous long-time editor I was interested in the typography of the book. There's a note about it on the bottom of the back title page. (Monotype Bell for the text, Clarendon for the extracts and Times Roman for the dictionary entries.) I'd like to know where the line illustrations sprinkled throughout the book come from.

My wife, Charlotte, is a dictionary person. There's at least one in just about every room in the house plus Webster's Third International Unabridged and Oxford Compact (2 volumes with magnifier) English Dictionary in the kitchen.

Ginny and Walter: A big hello to you both. It was great meeting you at the luncheon in New York.

Milt

Hello right back at you, Milt, wasn't it great?? I can see you as I type and Walter, that was SO much fun, we'll just have to do another one. What a great time, I did SO enjoy meeting everyone! Have still not come down from the clouds.

I'm so glad to see you all here, too, and look forward to your insights into this great book!

Ginny

THIS is a perfectly marvelous book! It is delightful. I love the illustrations, the way the book is presented, the way it's written. It's obvious the author is a true book lover, has anyone tried to contact him? He's wonderful!

Ginny

Ginny: Great idea. I'll look him up.

Am going to reserve it hopefully today at the Library, this is DOCTOR DAY AT OUR HOUSE. My husband hasn't been feeling well, so off he goes and I had a longstanding appt.

Well, Ella, now I hope everything's all right ewith you all!

Oh good, Jackie, please do! What fun, I saw him on television and he's very interesting.

Ginny

Jackie - I don't believe this at all! Why is this book so popular? Is it because it has a madman in the title and people are curious? I reserved it at my Library and I was 36th on the list (they own 25 copies), so I says to meself, I says, I'll buy it! So I went to Barnes & Noble, ordered the book correctly I thought, but I could never get to the "verification" page, it kept coming back to order form and I kept pondering and pondering and finally gave up. I have emailed B&N twice asking for confirmation of my order - do they never answer? What kind of bookstore are we advertising on Seniornet anyway! And there's no place to tell them I'm a member of Seniornet so we can get the 7% discount.

Disgusted! Now I don't know whether to get in the car and go buy it or not! Will one come in the mail?

Ella, I provided some information on using the Bookstore in another discussion where you had posted. It would appear that if you didn't get a confirmation e-mail that your order probably did get processed. When I have ordered off the Internet, I immediately get a confirmation e-mail with the details. Did it just yesterday on Shopping.com where I bought some cds for my daughter's birthday.

Larry

Ella, I don't understand the problem, but our B&N site has a customer contact email and you can write them and they do answer back. I just ordered one today and it worked for me (don't you HATE for somebody to say that?) Can you write and tell me what went wrong?

Giny

Ella; I've had the same experience as Larry Hanna when ordering online.I usually buy books from Amazon.com and,immediatly after placing an order,I'm deluged with verifications.Looks like your order didn't get thru. Try getting back online to B&N to re-order.

GINNY; Just reminded my friend yesterday about those St.Paddy's Day tix!

I, similarly, have never had any difficulty with Amazon. I enjoyed the book very much and am looking forward to the discussion,<P?> Best

LJ

Ella: One of the points we will be discussing is the reason for its popularity. I have my own beliefs about that, did I read that Mel Gibson has an option on this story? But, knowing this crowd, there will be as many different, interesting, intelligent opinions as there are participants. Winchester tells a good story; how he does it, well, you'll see for yourself. Good luck in obtaining your copy, I look forward to your thoughts and opinions. So pleased you will join us. This promises to be a very lively exchange.

Well Murphy's Law was written in stone just for me!

But I did it last night and very successfully, so thank you all for your help. I received immediate confirmation from B&N. Have no idea what I did wrong the first time.

Jackie - yes, we'll have a fun time - am looking forward to it with such good companions.

Jackie; What role has Mel Gibson been mentioned for in "Madman"? I can't see him fitting in anywhere in this story.

Walter: It was just one of those Hollywood gossip things. He may be planning on producing it. Or directing it. Didn't he do one or the other in Braveheart?

Jackie, I think Mel Gibson produced and also starred in "Bravehart". Thought it was a good movie. I think I could visualize him in the role of the Madman with those eyes. Think it would make quite a dramatic role.

Completed reading this book last evening and am looking forward to the discussion in a couple of days.

Larry

Received my book in the mail today but have been too busy to do much other than to open the package. Excited about reading it, looks very good!

Walter: Drama there certainly was in Dr. Minor's life. Tragedy. Not much joy, I would guess.

I have emailed Simon Winchester and asked him to visit us. I (semi-) warned him that we may (hahahaha) have questions to ask him as our discussion progresses. He has written several books, and they look quite interesting. One is about a journey in the American US, the "heartland".

We saw Mel Gibson as Hamlet many years ago and we were very pleasantly suprised at his performance,so I guess Dr.Minor wouldn't be too difficult for him.

I found it indeed strange that on reserving this book our Main Library had bought 25 copies and yet I was 36th on the list (a long waiting list), but on reserving "Seasons of Her Life" - the Madeline Albright book, our Main Library had bought only 14 copies of it and I can get one immediately.

What does this suggest about the reading public?

What does "Lubricious" mean ?

Best

LJ

What does this suggest about the reading public? Well, they're both biographical material, but one is astounding! I mean the OED, that paragon of libraries, actually written in part by a madman?

It starts brilliantly, one can see the movie, the facts are almost unbelievable.

How many of us have SEEN an OED?? Your local university library will have one, it may be the abridged version, but you should go look at it, you'll be stunned. Look up any word and see for yourself.

Here's their web site: O.E.D. and here's their Word of the Day for today, January 31: "rattling" Word of the Day

I find the book to be a bibilophile's dream: every nuance of its presentation is marvelous. The endpapers, the illustrations, I love it but am not thru so will yield the floor to those who are!

Ginny

Thanksd for the "Clickable" Ginny. It takes a password to look up a word. I guess this is a "Pay for View" site.

Best

LJ

LJ: It shouldn't? Are you sure? Perhaps they want you to sign in on the HOme Page??? I haven't paid anything??

GAGS

Speaking of unusual words...In the first 10 pages of "Madman" I came across these,all of which sent me to the dictionary: louche,gyre,wen,cosh.

WALTER!! I'm so glad to see you again, how are you! Isn't it fine to have to look up a word from time to time? Jackie had WRITTEN ME about those links I put up earlier, but I didn't see her letter! So I'll put them in the heading, tho you should have access, too, Jackie, and I'l see that you do right now!

Ginny

Ginny: Thanks for putting in those clickables for me. The OED site is beautiful, isn't it? Apparently OED is available on CD-ROM. The book begins is a very cinematic way. One can easily envision the Victorian trains tation, the carriage, the long drive, the stately mansion, etc. However, when I look at the endpapers, nothing about Broadmoor looks to me like anyone's home. Those of you who have traveled to Britain, have you ever been to/seen Broadmoor? Also, isn't Sandhurst where the British West Point is located? Doesn't Prince Charles have a place at Sandhurst?

About the movie(?), Dr. Minor's life was rife with drama.

The first attempt to reach Simon Winchester by email failed. The message was not deliverable. I will make another attempt through the publisher. Get your questions ready.

LJ: IWhat does it mean? I couldn't get "into" definitions without a password.

I'm into the book and it is fascinating - will love the discussion, but I rather resent our (and probably most) library only buying 14 copies of a book about our first female Secretary of State, and yet they had bought 25 copies of this one.

Walter - I looked up wen and sty (although I thought the latter must have something to do with a pigsty!

Interesting that this book mentions all the deserters from the Civil War - remember COLD MOUNTAIN - what's his name was a deserter! I've read it before but it still is shocking to hear the numbers of dead and most dying because of the poor medicine and facilities.

You mean LJ actually has to look up a word?

Why was this author allowed to see these official records that have been locked up for a century? I'm wondering if they are available to all now?

Ella; "Madman" has been on the NY Times bestseller list for the past 18 weeks which might explain why your librarian ordered 25 copies.

Well. I knew "Wen" and "Sty", but I couldn't get into definitions either without a password, but Ginny seems to have a "Magic Touch"

Best

LJ

P.S.

After reading this and "Royal Blood", I'm more convinced than ever that English spelling is silly and should be modernized. Teddy Roosevelt had the right idea.

All "C" sounds should be "K" and when "C" is an "S" it should be "S", but I won't go on with this diatribe.

Best

LJ

The 's' and 'k' is a good idea, but might lead to complications. Komplikations. Sent for scent. Reseived (i before e except after s??). No wonder English is so complex!

I was rather disappointed at the crime that Minor committed.I expected it to be proportionate to Jack the Ripper but it was just a plain old shooting.By todays standards,it would have made six lines on page 30 of the dailies. How far we've come!

Is it still true in England that the bobbies don't carry guns and that the citizens are not allowed to bear arms? Ginny - you've been there recently - did you notice the bobbies? Always thought their uniforms so different - dare I say darling? Wonder what our NRA has to say about gun crimes in England?

Interesting where we got the word "bedlam" isn't it? And we use it for anything today, ex. My house is a bedlam today! And I had never thought of the word "lunatic" as having anything to do with the moon, although it should have been obvious, I suppose.

I wonder if Minor's "shaming obsession with sexuality" had anything to do with his parents' evangelical religion and mission in life. I do believe this type of religion can be harmful to many young people, such a shame. He was 29 years old, I believe, when he graduated from Yale Medical, but never married or had a serious relationship? Odd, perhaps

Does a mind snap in a period of a couple of years - even though they were very traumatic to this genteel and gentle-minded fellow? That branding alone would be the death of me, whether I were the victim or the administrator; however, I'm wondering if today we know the cause of paranoia? Could it be inherited or caused by life's experiences in youth on, or is it caused by a traumatic experience such as this? Or all three? I do believe we can treat mental disease today better than the 19th century; however, are we still in the dark as to causes?

Re:Post # 53..causes of mental illness..I believe that most current thinking has to do with brain chemistry inbalance. Many of the newer drugs (especially anti-depressants)are rather successful in correcting the inbalances. It's possible that a lot of mental disorders in Minors time were the result of environmental factors(heavy metal residue in the diet) or venereal disease (syphllis). Are we better off today in treating mental illness?? I don't know,because a lot of people that should be institutionalized are now homeless on the streets,because many of the facilities have been closed because of budgetary cut backs..Do yo think that Minor could make the same contributions today if he had to live on these mean streets?

That's a good point, Ed!~ Paranoid tendencies do also tend to run in families, and so it's hard to say whether nurture or nature, so the brain chemistry is a good explanation.

I don't know whether bobbies carry guns, Ella, but the police surrounding Buckingham Palace sure do! I was out early one morning about 5 with jet lag just walking and came up on St. James's Palace where the Queen Mother lives, (didn't know that on that visit) and the entire place was surrounded by camoflague wearing machine gun toting persons who took a great interest in my presence. Stupid me thought something was up and actually moved closer to rubberneck. It was ME that was the attraction! Then I walked on over to Buckingham Palace where the guys with the tall black hats had been replaced by the same machine toting militia. Sobering, it really is, as Walter says how far we have come. But what can you do with all the real nuts running around??

Another thing you notice straighaway is the lack of any trash can or waste basket in any terminal or public meeting place (bombs).

I, too, was a bit startled by the "crime," but it does appear that Dr. Minor had more problems than were first apparent?

I was also surprised that his well to do family apparently bailed on him and didn't help with the trial?

Ginny

I guess I've seen too many English films, but I've always considered the Brits far more civilized than most and this story really underscores that thought.I was impressed with the quick disposition of Minor's case,his sentence (Lock him up til the Queen decides to let him loose!) and the relative comfort of his lodgings at Broadmoor.Of course I'm also forgetting about all the other poor souls that wasted away in "Bedlam" that didn't enjoy private quarters.

Walter: The swift conclusion of the trial seemed veddy English. I haven't had a chance to consult with the professionals I work with, but Dr. Minor's illness and treatment in these times will be posted shortly. (I did say that I work in Acute Psychiatric Services, didn' I?) Still no luck with email to Simon Winchester. My next try will be on England's WWW.

Reading on the OED site that the second edition will be online at the end of 1999, and the invitation for contributions to the third edition, made me think of the cumbersome method they were using for the first edition. Did anyone understand that business of the cubbyholes? I am easily confused and that made no sense to me.

Jackie: No, I didn't know you worked there - that's going to be so interesting what you tell us about Minor's treatment today.

But hey, I haven't finished reading the book yet, I'm just poking at it when I get the time and the inclination. Wasn't the history of dictionaries interesting? I'd love to see Samuel Johnson's dictionary (pg.89) - "bound in rich brown leather, the paper is thick and creamy, the print impressed deep into the weave." And "charmed by the quaint elegance of the definitions." How about the title of that one by Bailey (pg.88)? It was compiled for the "Entertainment of the Curious " (I fit that one), and for "Information of the Ignorant" (also fit) and for the benefit of young students, Artificers (who are they?) etc. That has to be the longest title of a book ever and the spelling is also quaint - "antient" and "us'd"

We use The American Heritage Dictionary, simply because it sits in the bookcase where we can reach it handily. I'm sure there are old ones packed away somewhere - can't even remember where we got this one. It certainly makes one appreciate our modern dictionaries doesn't it?

I just noticed that "Longitude" was going to be discussed coming in March - that's a coincidence isn't it - or was it inspired by this book? We saw the C-span interview of the author and thought it was very interesting. She had been to England to do her research and saw all the clocks there - I'll be there to discuss that book with others.

I thought this was a most interesting book and that it is interesting to contemplate whether the OED would be the same without Dr. Minor's contributions. I feel there is little doubt that there would still have been the OED since the editor was a most unique individual. The sheer weight and volumne of the little slips of paper that were submitted and the organizational skills required to be able to access what was needed when needed is pretty overwhelming.

I am still not certain I have a good understanding of how all of the usages were identified beyond reading the books. I also wondered where the words were derived in the first place to be put in the books. I suppose it is like it is today in that someone uses or misuses a word and a new meaning, pronunciation, or usage is started, picked up and thus gets into usage.

I was really startled to read of the special priviledges that Dr. Minor was allowed right down to the metal lined floor.

Larry

Jackie; "Cubbyholes"...please refresh me.What page?

Although Dr.Minor had a tremendous influence on the development of the OED,I think we'd all agree that the dictionary would have found it's way into print even if he were not involved...for better or worse.I think the driving force behind the whole thing was Dr.Murray,without whom Minor would have never been discovered and the OED might not have made it.

What an extraordinary fellow HE was!

Walter: I mispoke, should have said pigeonholes. One reference is on page 150, where the description of the new Scriptorium mentions 1,029 pigeonholes. What astounds me: the sheer physical bulk of the slips of paper which list the references. I have become too used to my computer's data base capabilities that I can barely deal with pieces of paper anymore.

Could have sworn there were a couple of posts up there that have disappeared, but I finished the book this afternoon and,Walter - yes,I quite agree. The book is Minor and his tragic life, with asides of history, dictionaries, mental illness and the like. The poor fellow, so delusional that it caused an otherwise intelligent man to mutilate his body in such a terrible fashion. And he lived to be 85 ( long lifed indeed) no doubt helped by the fact that he had no access to alcohol or other bad habits (such as venereal disease) prevalent at the time, and, also I would think, simple diet and exercise.

This tale of woe is probably the reason the book is on the best seller list, do you think? In my humble opinion, it is nowhere near the caliber of "Seasons of Her Life" - which has no insanity or tale of mutilation to sensationalize it and cause the libraries to buy excessive copies - and as this is where I began, time for me to end it.

You might want to look at the last word on page 225 - it's been much in the news lately!

Ella; I've been looking for 2 posts that seem to have disappeared.Glad to hear that you noticed it too.Now I know I'm not going crazy!

Yes Ella/Jackie, In addition to the interesting material about the English language, this is a classic study or case history of a Paranoid Schizophrenic.

Best

LJ

Jackie; I can only assume that the "cubbyholes" mentioned on page 150 were for storing the incoming paper work from those people in the field who were sending in definitions.

Here's a question that occured to me. With all the words submitted by Dr.Minor...30,000 or more? If a lexicographer took a close look at the OED do you think he'd be able to identify the the definitions submitted by Minor?

Are there other types of schizophrenics?

It would be interesting to list the various types of mental illnesses as we know them today. There is the bi-polar disorder (manic-depressive) - the above - what other do we know?

Would the common everyday depression, something like the weeds in a garden, have differing types?

You can readily see I'm not up to par on this, but with Jackie in the field she is - maybe we'll get enlightened?

Yes, and that was also a very exciting question by Walter and I wonder what the answer is? Would be neat to try to pick out Minor's submissions!

Ginny

We have a copy of the DSM-IV in the office. This is the official listing and definition of each of the recognized diagnoses used in the mental health field. I will copy out for you some of the more interesting ones. I can tell you that a simple list takes up 10 or 12 pages (trade paperback size). One that I see most often is "296" Depressive Disorder. This is broken down into several sub diagnoses, such as, recurrent vs. single episode; psychotic; not psychotic; not specific, etc. Bi-polar is very convoluted. That one I will list in full tomorrow.

Mercy Jackie - I had no idea, but I should have known as anything in the medical field is so complicated. Please don't go to a lot of trouble over it, I was thinking there were probably about 12 or so and you could just list the common layman's terms for them.

Walter - I would have no idea as to identifying Minor's submissions over all the others - there were so very many volunteers doing it also. A lexicographer? Wonder what the job field looks like for that?

Too lengthy to quote here, but Dr. Minor was Schizophrenic, Paranoid type. Onset typical, auditory hallucinations typical. He had difficulty in forming relationships (no kidding!). His sexual fantasies may have been diagnosed as Paraphillia, which also includes sadism, masochism, voyeurism, as well as his symptomatic obsessing about sex. The care he received at Broadmoor may have been better than the treatment he would receive today; highly structured, free of the necessity of interfacing with others, satisfying intellectual occupation.

Ella you made a very interesting point regarding the last word on page 225. I had the very same thought. I was VERY surprised to have read it -- not very PC.

After reading the book I think the most interesting question that remains unanswered is the cause of schizophrenia (pg 212) "was there ever an indentifiable happening, ... is it truly causeless, a part of the very being of some unfortunate individuals?". I do remember reading somewhere or hearing somewhere, maybe from the movie Sybil (sp?) that when a person has something so traumatic happen to them their personality actually splits to block this out as a defense mechanism.

Barb,

I too have often wondered about that word, and as a simple rule I don't use words that I wonder about. This particular word is certainly, officially, devoid of any hostile connotation, but its derivation is not in doubt so --- as you say, its NOT P.C.

Other words are useful on a regional basis. For example, in the Caribbean the word "Pickney" meaning child, is NOT "Color coded", but up here in the states it is.

One is occasionally hard pressed to be sure of what IS proper. To some ears the word "Black" is offensive.

Best

LJ

Barb: One difference between psychosis and neurosis, in addition to the effects produced, is the derivation. Psychosis produces very visible differences in the brain. CAT scans (Are they the ones which are in colors?) show distinct patterns for different types of psychosis: Obsessive-Compulsives, Schizophrenics, Bi-Polars, etc. Neuroses do not show up in brain scans. If the cause of psychosis is physical, whatever its derivation, then there can be a "fix": chemicals. There are meds for OCD, Bi-Polar, etc., and they can and do alleviate the symptoms. Dr. Minor's sexual problems may well have resulted from his childhood. The conflict between his puritanical, missionary parents and the sexually uninhibited neighbors can produce neuroses. At least, that is my understanding.

My wife and I were in NYC for a few days and we popped into the main branch of the Public Library to take a look at the OED. I think there were 20+ volumes and browsing it was a fascinating experience.

I still have a problem understanding how Dr.Minor could research a word so thoroughly as to tell that it first appeared in print in 1292 (implead) or 1594 (hidalgo).Can you imagine what he would have done if he were online?

Dad in response to your question of how Dr. Minor could so thoroughly research a word ... well that is all he had to do for 20 years! He would do almost nothing at Broadmoor except engulf himself in the world of his books, their writings and their words. The book also said that one book might take him 3 months to complete in the kind of detail he was doing.

Let me point out that my comments about Dr. Minor's condition are based on my observations from working in a mental health environment. I AM NOT A PSYCHIATRIST, A PHYSICIAN, A NURSE, or any other professional in the healing field. These are my own opinions, and nothing more.

DAD??? BARB??? Is that YOU?? From NYC?? I have been looking all alertly all along for Barbara WALTERS!! Well, HELLO there and WELCOME aboard, I think my last welcome post to Barbara JENKINS got lost in our crash, but by jingo here's another one to Barbara WALTERS/JENKINS!!!

Did you look into the NYC folder today? In the heading? hahahahahahaa

Make Mr. Walter tell us about his movie career!

When you think about it, think of the untapped brain power lying fallow in prisons today?

Ginny

Hellooooooo!!! Is anybody out there?

Is that you, Walter? I'm here, you're here, that makes two. What can I do for you?

I see both of you and I'm here - 3 and counting. But what are we doing?

It is my understanding that we have basically finished this book discussion. However, these discussions remain open to comment, even when we move them to the Archives. So anyone can contribute to the discussion at any time.

If you are thinking of reading this book, I know that I found it interesting and it was a fairly quick read.

Larry

A few times at the beginning of the book the author mentioned Guy Fawkes ... can anyone enlighten me as to who he was?