Ann - we are online now! Come in, come in!

If anyone looking at this is interested, please "SIGN IN." If we get a few participants we can start the discussion early in August.

Stahl gives us a fresh look at politics, feminism, affirmative action, careers for women, mothers working, plus an inside look at the White House years from President Nixon through President Bush.

You will enjoy this book!

Ella, I should have this book waiting for me at the library by the first of next week. I always enjoy reading at events and people that I have known about. Will try to join the discussion if I can get some of the book read.

Larry

Good Larry - that's exactly what Stahl writes about. Each chapter covers the years of a president from Nixon through Bush and in each are her own experiences, not only as a reporter for CBS and a White House press correspondent, but her own life experiences.

Adding to that, it was a time when we began to see women as news reporters for the first time.

Some of those inside stories are fascinating!

OK, Ella, here I be!! Finally have my copy from the Bexley library! I haven't started it but the synopsis sounds interesting. I am always interested in the inside stories. Enjoyed Katherine Graham's book immensely so am looking forward to this one. Do you think she had a harder time than the gal who was fired because she got too fat and old? She has a program on PBS but I can't think of her name. She had quite a story to tell,too.

Don't know that lady Ann, but am not surprised! Stahl talks about this aspect of TV news also.

Here we have Mike Wallace on 60 minutes who is what? In his 70's and do you think they would have a 70-year old lady on? Hahaaaa!

But Stahl is not young either. She starts her book out with this sentence: "I was born at the age of 30." But she mentions her age during certain periods (we'll figure it out). Darn it, she looks very good for whatever age she is, doesn't she? The kind of lady I admire, stays thin and beautiful! AGRRRRRR!

ANN - LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND:

LESLEY STAHL WEB SITE

And I just figured out her age to be 58 years old! Well! (unless my math skills aren't up to snuff, isn't that what you get?) She's much to be admired!

And another one:

Lesley Stahl

She'll give a speech to us for around 5-10K and upwards I see! How long do we want her to come for and what size is the audience! Hahaaa In my next life, I'm going to do something wonderful so I can talk about it endlessly foreverafter and get paid for it!!! Way to Go!

Ella, the other journalist is Linda Ellerbee! Finally, my memory got in gear! LOL! I believe that she also has written a book. Will look it up at B&N.

Will go look at the other sites later today.

I petitioned the library to get a copy of Reporting Live . I'll have to wait and see if they do.

Good Pat - if we get Larry, you, Ann and I, think maybe we have the seeds of a discussion group - do you think?

I like to read, but I'm not too good at discussing.. I guess my reading is geared for escape.. But I did like "Seasons of Her Life", I thought I'd like this one.

I'll be here if I can find the book and you don't start too soon! I'll be lurking in any event. Don't usually go for books of this type but I like Leslie Stahl. I liked Linda Ellerbee too and read her book but it's been ages ago. Was it called And So It Goes or something like that?

Jeryn: We'll wait! No hurry about anything. And it will so easy to break our discussion into readable parts, 5 chapters - five presidents- one a week or something like that.

Pat - please post your thoughts as you read along. Everyone has opinions or questions for the group and this one is provocative!

Did you know, for instance, that she dated Bob Dole at one time? It was partly due to this relationship that led her to the conclusion tha Nixon was covering up.

I like her on 60 minutes also, I don't remember her in her early career on the Morning News though, do you?

I just know her from 60 minutes and haven't watched that in a long time. I liked the show most of the time; just got out of the habit. Could it be because of THIS tube I'm staring at???! Hahahaha!

Did anyone see Booknotes on C-Span Sunday evening? Dan Rather was interviewed by Brian Lamb, and although he isn't my favorite news commentator, I liked him very much.

He (along with all the biggies in TV News) has written a book entitled "Deadlines and Datelines."

Brian was trying to get under his skin a bit, asking Rather why he was chosen to take Walter Cronkite's place, when a number of others were hoping to get the spot, but Rather handled that very well.

Lesley Stahl talks about this in her book and also gives us her opinions of all the stars of television news.

Ella, I did see the BookNotes that had Dan Rather on. It appears that all of the top news anchors must have had to write a book this past year as Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings both had very successful books.

I did think it was interesting that she had dated Bob Dole and Woodward at the time of Watergate. Her mother is also quite a character. This should present and interesting topic for some discussion.

Larry

Hi Larry - Peter Jennings wrote one? I know of Brokaw's, of course. Why do you suppose they are all coming out with them? Doubt if their careers are over - Rather wants to continue his - When Brian asked him what he would like to do, he said have an hour-long news program across the time zones. It might fly - what do you think?

I was somewhat surprised that Rather implied CNN had a smaller audience that the big 3. Were you?

You have started reading the book I see!! Cheating a little aren't you???? It IS a good read and that mother-daughter relationship is certainly a bit different-

NOTICE! TO ALL INTERESTED PARTIES!! WE ARE STARTING THE DISCUSSION OF THIS BOOK AUGUST 5th. GET YOUR BOOK AND COME EXPLORE LESLEY STAHL'S WORLD!

Yes, she always ended her show with--And So It Goes.---She had a great wit I think, but too ironic for most.--Her career has been up and down, up and down, mostly because she was very quick to say what she really thought.--I admire her, and wish she could be seen ,--or heard, or read,---more often.--

Hi Putney,

Welcome to our little book discussion. You are new to me but maybe not the others. Welcome anyway. I think that Linda Ellerbee has a children's program on PBS or she did last year. I am trying to start reading this Leslie Stahl book but have been down with a bad cold but do intend to start soon. This afternoon, in fact. Hope you enjoy the book and will comment here often. It sounds like a winner.

Went online this evening and found that the Cuyahoga County Public Library has this book. Finally. My quest is over! I reserved a copy but can't tell how long it may take to actually get it in my hot little hands. But I'm along, even if only for the ride!

I'm looking forward to this discussion because, as I wrote to Ella, Lesley and I were college classmates - totally appropos of nothing, I wonder why her face doesn't reflect her 58 years as mine does!!

Maybe her book will reveal her secret, Maida! Face lifts, daily massages, who knows!

WELCOME MAIDA AND JERYN

Maida, now we know how old you are, but Jeryn and I are older. In fact, I'm the oldest here, at 71 years old, and Jeryn just had her 65th birthday. Who cares, huh!

How does LS stay so young looking? Money, money, time and trouble. I think to keep her job, which she loves, she has to maintain that figure and face!

Yes, she obviously has LOTS of energy - and, I think, is proud of her appearance. In college she was always well dress altho I'm sure that she schlepped around in a trench coat (always over pajammas or nightie), bare feet in Weejun loafers - used to attend classes this way - no men, so most of us didn't care. Lesley's mother watched her like a hawk and was openly critical of her daughter's hair, dress, glasses, makeup, etc. Of course facelifts! Surely more than one to have that smooth neck (I could just wring it) and the wide open eyes - no puffiness or bags there. On camera she's always made up - those cosmeticians (sp?) can do wonders I'm told.

The cosmetologists and surgeons probably have done wonders for her, but who kept that slim figure. Diet, exercise - what? Do you suppose the woman eats anything at all besides rabbit food?

I'll bet she has an unusually high metabolism, belongs to a gym (or has personal trainer) and lives mainly on fruits. Since she mentions it so often in the book, I suspect that her appearance means everything to her - and it's her livelihood also - all that competition with the much younger beauties in the business. I've met Diane Sawyer too - she's equally beautiful but in a softer way. Lesley is hard-edged! Connie Chung is just plain cute as a button and so tiny!! These women just naturally have the most beautiful skin.

Maida Gosh, we'll have loads to talk about when the others get their books and we start the book on August 5th.

Speaking of Connie Chung, though, the commercials she and Dan Rather did for their ill-fated dual anchor spots were awful! How could either of them have approved!

Just fruit? I could do that better if I was not married to a guy who likes his meat and potatoes. I cook it, eat it.

Dear Ella and friends,

How nice to hear that you are going to start discussing a book I read an enjoyed just last month. Now I don't have to try to get it from the library. I just have to try to remember what I read.

You know...when one has SCS, better known as Senior Citizen Syndrome, one remembers something, maybe. I do remember however that I liked the book immensely. She and her friends have a very nice support group, and I love that about women.

As far as her looks go.......she looks fabulous, and I think it is combination of vanity, hard work, plastic surgery and the smarts. And, am I jealous.

By the way...I would guess that I am the oldest one here since I will be 72 this month. Now try and top that!!

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Sorry, I may be older... I'll be 72 this month also, I know I am much older looking.

I've always been a great admirer of Ms. Stahl and have not missed many 60 Minutes programs.

I have not been able to participate in any of your book discussions because I'm always in the middle of one or two other books. How do you gals organize your reading so that you can keep up? Well, I may have you all beat....I am a young 75.... But you all sound like you're in your 40's!!!

Hey, this is great!

Hi Fran - You'll remember once we start discussing the book - just forget (Hahahaaa!) that SCS business for now. So glad you will be with us.

Pat - We have the same tastes I think - I've always admired LS - and the whole gang at 60 minutes.

Let's all forget this age business right now - not a thing we can do about it except pretend we're younger.

Welcome Gail - We are going to take this book a chapter at a time and the first chapter is a short one - so do join us! Even if you read just 2-3 pages, you can keep up daily. I have three books I'm reading at the moment - one for bedtime, one I pick up at lunch or whenever during the day (the Stahl book), and I'm participating in the Good War discussion. Some people watch TV, I read, am a bookworm.

It's more fun in a discussion I think, if we all just read a chapter at a time. If we try to read the whole book, you forget little things that caught your attention the first time. Do all of you agree?

OOOOOOh, ladies! I amazed and shocked by these outbursts of jealously of this oh so pretty woman!! Meoooooow!! Well, if truth came to shove, I too am jealous!! She looks so good and I am just average. Her mother was no slouch either, picture is in the book. You know that they show Barbara WAWA through a veil or cheesecloth plus some special lighting. Its a TV camera man trick to dissapate the lines. A "factoid" revealed to me by my sister-in-law who knows these weird things!! Tee Hee!

Welcome to all the new people and lets get started tomorrow!! But, first, I have to get to the beauty salon in the morning and have my hair cut and styled for the opening day!! Hahaha! See ya'll in the morning!

Still waiting on the book, but I'll be faithfully lurking and hope to join in whenever.

Jeryn, I found the book read quickly. This is one complex lady. I am looking forward to the discussion getting started tomorrow.

Larry

I try to get some reading in before I go to bed, early in the morning while having breakfast, and then at lunchtime.

I too love to read, and have found now that the place I do my best reading is on an airplane. While on the cruise or touring I have too many distractions, but while on the airplane if I am not eating I am reading.

Let's see.....should I have my hair done tomorrow? No, I'll wait until Friday. Wait until I post a new photo of the new Fran. I decided to go from fake blonde to my natural color. It turned out to be gray....what a surprise , and so far I don't hate it.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

I have a few questions about the book and Leslie Stahl.

1. Would she have been who she is without her mother's pushing?

2. What prompted her to go for journalism in the first place?

3. Do you feel that you have a different slant on Watergate since reading her account? Or, does it read about the same as Katherine Graham's or Dan Rather's?

Fran - Gosh, how often do you fly and how long are your flights? As for hair coloring, I have, don't anymore, may again - off and on. Do you suppose on LS's days off she looks as gorgeous, hair coloring and all, as she does on Sunday evenings? Nah, no one could keep that up.

Ann - Good questions! I'm going to put those up top to keep in mind as we read this book.

I'm not much further than the first page, which held my attention. In fact the very first line: I was born on my 30th birthday. In that one sentence LS destroys all the psychologists theories of those early years being the formative ones - leaving us to wonder what she was like growing up, her friendships, parents, family life - wouldn't you like to know just a little bit? I wouldn't start a book that way - would you?

But then I thought possibly these years in which she wrote the book were either her most interesting or she thought we, the readers, would think so.

At any rate, we learn in the first paragraph, her two most admired males are Charles Kuralt - who could spin a story out of tidbits - and her father, who was patient, respectful and gentle. Does she say anything about females she admires? No, but we do learn about Dolly, her mother, and we keep learning about Dolly, her mother, throughout the book. Does she admire Dolly? Does she love her? Is this a good mother/daughter relationship.

I didn't mean to go on so long on the very first day, but this is such an interesting book and there is a lot about LS underneath it all that we can dig out, besides the obvious stories we have read about through the years.

It was obvious to me that LS was and probably still is a driven person. At the same time she comes across in this book as a very insecure person. This was evidenced to me by the constant checking with Dolly, not a normal course of action for a mature adult. She was obviously successful to be a network correspondent on television and especially when she became a White House reporter. She was tough as she probably had to be to survive in that environment, especially in her early years. At the same time it seems that may have been just a facade when you consider how she interacted with her husband and daughter and her relationship with Dolly. What a complex person.

I really doubt that LS would have been as successful without her Mother pushing and yet she obviously is a very talented and capable person so she might have done fine on her own.

I seem to have missed any explanation of why she choose journalism. Did she say in the book? I wonder if she was on her college newspaper staff? Guess all of that is a part of the life she had before she was "born at 30".

As far as having a different slant on Watergate and on Nixon, I have read quite a few books written by people having knowledge about that situation. Each one brings some unique observations and LS certainly was in a place to have an eye witness perspective. I was thinking this morning that the news anchors, like Rather, would see and learn of so much more than could ever be broadcast. LS in working in the White House and developing sources throughout the Government also gave her a unique view of things.

Larry

Larry - Why do you think she started her book at the age of 30? Is there something in her childhood perhaps that she does not want to reveal to the public? Could this be the reason for the "insecurity" you sensed as you read the book?

I think as we read along, perhaps she has given us more clues than she would like.

I've put a clickable in the heading that is on the 60 minutes Website - she's as gorgeous as ever on this one, if not more so!

Ella, I felt she said her life started at 30 because that was when she became involved with CBS News and her career really took off. I got the impression that she came from a well-to-do family so that money probably was never a factor and that her appearance was always important to her. She also recognized that appearance was a vital factor on television, especially for women at the time she entered the work force. Found it interesting that she made several comments about wearing high heel shoes and spraying her hair so much. Guess she had to be ready to be on camera all the time.

Larry

I do admire Leslie Stahl, and being a very vain person myself I can understand always wanting to look your best. Especially with the job she has it is most important.

As a sometime professional photographer I can't tell you how important having a good photographer is to making a good face and figure into a great face and figure. And for her age she looks great.

I think Dolly was the big influence in her life, and certainly did steer her in the direction of success. Many mothers just allow their children to plod along finding their way in this world. I had the opinion that Dolly did more than that, and now I am wondering why I wasn't more that kind of mother. Probably too lazy.

I'm going to try to get the book out of the library once again so I can follow along with you.

Since our children are both on the West Coast we fly out that way a lot, and that makes for good reading time.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Fran - Yes, do get your copy back so we can discuss it thoroughly, so very many little things I want to ask all of you. You were a photographer once? In your own business or freelance?

Do you agree with Dolly that "good-looking people do better in life." Are we talking here about television or just any job anywhere? I certainly agree we should all look our best, but genetics play a part in our lives (and money) and we all cannot be beautiful.

LS says ".....being beautiful, had the effect of making people think I was brainless." I think a lot of men felt that way about Marilyn Monroe didn't they? Beautiful and dumb! And loved her for it, too, I might add.

Larry - LS probably did come from a wealthy family, but that does not necessarily guarantee self-confidence or the traits needed to face the public. Just out of curosity, from a male perspective, would you rather listen to your news from a beautiful female or a good-looking male or does it make a difference?

Who do all of you watch for your news? And why? I'm going to take a little survey here about this news business, female vs. male, beauty vs. ordinary.

I loved this book. Which is saying a lot, since I muttered throughout about how poorly it was written. Every other chapter I'd let go of thinking it was poorly written, then I'd get bogged down in what read like endless details of daily political goings-on that had little to do with Stahl. What kept me reading, however, was the intrigue of her evolution, personally and in her employment, and the clear, straight forward "reporting" style throughout. I was soooo disappointed that she gave us so little of her personal life---a paragraph here and there---but very glad she wrote quite openly about the difficulties of being a woman in the television journalism profession.

It's clear that this book is mostly about her professional life and that she deliberately put age boundaries around that, but how disappointing. I wanted to know more. As so many writers will admit, however, they are not willing to write about other parts of their lives while certain family members are still alive. I wonder if that is why the book begins at age 30 and why the personal sections are so short.

About prior musings on Dolly, her mother, I almost feel that LS made it not because of pressure from her mother, but in spite of it. That her successes may have had little to do with the mother who could------well, I was about to write something about LS's pregnancy and realized that some readers may not be that far along in the book. Just remember that I frowned on something her mother did during that time. Throughout the book, also, LS keeps refering to the "big fights" with her mother, the constant criticism---don't wear your glasses, cut your hair, where did you get THAT dress. As Leslie Stahl weans herself away from her mother, I see her as maturing and getting rid of a weight. I frankly wonder what LS might have done if she'd had a loving, supportive mother.

Many of you seem perplexed by Lesley's relationship with her mother. For what it's worth, Dolly is an extreme example of a good Jewish mother - one who was fortunate to have a daughter who was bright, beautiful and, like Dolly herself, driven. Much as most of us would rather not admit, physically attractive people do seem to get ahead. The ability to look beyond a person's appearance is, I think, something that only comes with maturity.

I'm almost positive that Lesley majored in Art History at Wheaton (I in English Literature/European History). There was no communications major back then when this college was all women and the studies were pretty intense. Although we often partied on weekends, most of us worked our butts off during the week. In 1963 the job market for women was limited compared to what's out there now. Lesley may have had trouble finding much of anything - and, as we know, settled for television news in Boston. Many women could say that their lives began when real opportunity opened for them - when at last a "calling" of sorts becomes available. At 30 it dawned on Lesley that she really could make a go of television news AND put some physical distance between her and Dolly although she continued to rely on Dolly's advice on just about everything.

Lesley comes from Swampscott, Massachusetts. This is a very wealthy town on the north shore - near Salem and Marblehead. I suspect that Lesley's parents were very comfortable. Even in those days Wheaton was an expensive place to study and I don't recall Lesley ever working at one of the self-help (financial) jobs within the college community. Somewhere I have the little freshman directory for our class and will post her 1959 high school photo for all of you providing I can locate it.

Wonderful, Maida! So neat that you KNEW her when, as it were! I'm reading all the posts and will be reading this book as soon as the library makes it available!

Meanwhile, a comment about peoples' good looks--or lack thereof--in the news media. I like LS on "60 Minutes" but my alltime favorite newscaster was David Brinkley. I haven't really cottoned to another since he retired, in fact, rarely watch daily newscasts now and prefer to read my news in the paper. Good looks, to me, obviously has little to do with a person's ability to deliver news!

Well, I avoid watching or reading any news except in my weekly news magazine. I just got tired of it all back in the Watergate days and realized that it was not straight reporting but the reporter's slant on things.

When I was in school, I considered journalism for a major but an editor of our local paper spoke to our class and informed us that nothing that is printed is completely true and the only thing you could believe were the sports scores and the only other thing worth reading were the funnies. I guess I began to see what he was talking about as I grew older. Even tone of voice in straight reporting can influence people watching or listening. A reporter's feeling about a certain news item is bound to come through.

As to Leslie Stahl's mother, I think that women of that generation had many similar thoughts about their daughters. Wanting them to push the envelope of women. Be on the cutting edge. And, to them, looks were part of that success. I found it very interesting that LS discusses her inclination to flirt to get her way with her bosses and how she finally realized that wasn't a good or honest way to get things done.

readerdoc One thing she did accomplish in writing this book is just what you pointed out - "…… she wrote quite openly about the difficulties of being a woman in the television journalism profession." Do you think she could be considered a role model for young women coming after her?

In her early years, which she has written about in this first chapter, she illustrates her persistence when she ignores such jibes as David Brinkley telling her she would never make it in journalism. "You're a pretty blonde, you should stay in New York and have fun" he said.

Particularly interesting is the fact that she obtained her job through Affirmative Action - at a time when the networks were looking for minorities to hire; you may remember they hired Connie Chung, Bernard Shaw and LS and they had Asian, Black and women all included. All of them, I believe, are still doing well in TV and I like Bernard Shaw particularly - he's just so cool and calm all the time.

Your statement that "I almost feel that LS made it not because of pressure from her mother, but in spite of it" is very astute. Do you feel this is why she made so many references to her mother?

Maida Perhaps I should have heard of Wheaton College, but I haven't; where is it and is it coed now? Has LS been back to give speeches or has she received an honorary degree? It still seems strange to write a book and tell so little of your early life and what formed your character. However we can certainly agree with you that

"Many women could say that their lives began when real opportunity opened for them - when at last a "calling" of sorts becomes available. At 30 it dawned on Lesley that she really could make a go of television news AND put some physical distance between her and Dolly although she continued to rely on Dolly's advice on just about everything.

Maida and readerdoc: Who is your favorite newscaster on TV?

.

JERYN AND ANN We were all posting together! So neither of you watches an evening newscaster?

I find that very interesting and wonder if that is a trend? If so, all this hullaboolu over getting the anchor spots on the evening news is just that! We have the big 3 of the moment, Brokaw, Jennings and Rather getting older and there is talk of who will replace them.

Ella,

Wheaton has been around since before Mt. Holyoke and both colleges were founded by Mary Lyons. Wheaton, when I went there, was considered on the east coast to be one of the seven little sisters to Smith, Radcliffe, etc. Connecticut College, Skidmore were two other little sister schools. Wheaton was entirely female until sometime in the late 1970's or early 1980's when, for financial reasons, is went co-ed. That's when many of us stopped our annual bequests. Lesley was on the Board of Trustees the last time I checked.

Favorite broadcaster? I still miss Huntley Brinkley! I have a dim view of most of the current flock, especially the big three - Jennings, Brokaw and Rather - egos are too inflated. I get most of my news on NPR and from The New York Times, Boston Globe. Rarely watch television. Gaucher is another of the little sisters - Wheaton is in Norton, Mass..

Maida! Ann! Two more of us who watch little, if any, television--news or otherwise! Who has time with all the great books in this world and THIS tube to watch! A good newspaper is more than adequate for me. And I agree with your lecturer, the funnies are the best part! A true art form; I read them all and there are two pages of them in the Plain Dealer!

I must admit I am a Newsaholic. I have been since the days of the Kefauver Hearings on Television, which might have been on as early as 1951, and I was stuck at home with my first bambino. Then came the McCarthy Hearings, and I was certainly glued to the set then. This was real life right in my own living room.

One of the reasons I don't spend more time reading is because of The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal plus many of the news shows on television which I tape, and then check out to see which stories are worth watching.

I like things that are true, and have much more patience with a true story, which may not be well written than a work of fiction that is well different.

If I had given it any thought before I jumped into marriage and motherhood I would have loved to have been a journalist.

I think my parents were also newsaholics because every night when we sat down to dinner the radio would go on, and I think it was HV Kaltenborn (?) or Lowell Thomas that they would listen to through dinner.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Got my first taste of news when I was very little and living with my grandparents and my mother - Harry (dad who never allowed me to call him "dad") was off fighting in Europe. EVERY night the entire house had to sit silently while JJ (who didn't allow me to call him "grandfather or anything else for that matter) listened to Lowell Thomas. All those evenings taught me that news is vitally important but television today carries only snippets - designed to be understood by someone with a third grade reading level. Locally our television news beats any unfortunate event (e.g. murder, rape, violent death) to death - who has time for all of that garbage?

Maida - Have you noticed that LS also does not call her parents Mom and Dad - it's Dolly and Lou with LS. Was it a fad at the time?

On page 39 LS tells of an incident where LS wanted to go to Bermuda with current boyfriend (later husband), Lou said no and LS states "if my mother had said that, I'd have been on the next plane to Bermuda" - which tells us a lot about that relationship. Apparently she never grows out of this rebellion towards Mom and yet wanting her approval desperately. There's a name for this behavior, but it doesn't come to me.

Yes, we all are intrigued by LS putting all these "Dolly-mother" references in the book. Is her mother still living I wonder? What did her father do? Were there any other children in the family? As readerdoc said we want to know more about her family, not just the constant phone calls!

We do have some insider stories in this first chapter - one very sad one was about President Nixon taking Pat to dinner at a restaurant shortly before his resignation and the lady being so GRATEFUL, if you can imagine that!!!! Mrs. Nixon turned to LS and Helen Thomas and said "Isn't he wonderful. ....All the pressure he's under and he took the time to take me out." And her eyes teared up.

I'm sure LS had to hold her tongue, maybe swallow it, but she related her thoughts about all this president had put his and his children through, that dinner was the very least he could do, and further tells us that Nixon hardly ever addressed his wife or looked at her during the many dinners at the White House.

I know there are books about the Nixons where Pat is mentioned - perhaps there is a book on Pat, I don't know. Does anyone? I remember that shortly after he resigned she had a stroke.

Fran - Like you, I like the news and remember being glued to TV during McCarthy, Watergate eras, JFK's assassination, etc. We watch Brokaw during our evening meal, but prefer CNN news to any other. I think we are divided right down the middle on my little survey, although like several of you I abhor the violence I see and feel there's way too much emphasis on it by the media.

I must admit I am rather addicted to the news and watch a lot of the programs. I really don't care whether the news is being reported by a man or a woman if I feel they are competent.

LS did have a brother that she discusses later in the book. Maida, sure appreciate the additional insights you have offered about her family and Wheaton.

Larry

I am ready to read the next chapter? Anyone else? I actually have not started yet which is hard for me to do. The book is calling, calling! Started another book (library discussion book) to ward off temptation. When can we go on, Ms Ella? Are you ready?

I must admit to missing Walter Cronkite. And to watching Jim Lehner(sp?) on PBS-TV once in awhile. They do go deeper into the news that they cover. Also, I listen to NPR news once in while when I am cooking as I am a big radio fan.

No,no, Ann, let's give this chapter a bit more time as Jeryn hasn't got her book yet, perhaps someone else? I have more questions yet on this chapter to ask - we just started this on Thursday.

Larry - I still have 2 chapters at the end of the book to finish, decided while I was reading the book to open this discussion and not to finish until the group does, so didn't know about the brother and won't until we get there. How about her parents living? Anything? If her mother is living, I wonder how she would feel about these references to her.

I don't know if Dolly is still living but if she is I'd bet that she's terribly proud of her little girl - having LS get ahead was what it was all about, wasn't it? Live through one's child/ There is a brother - more about him, as Larry mentioned, later. For the most part I feel that Lesley treated most of the presidents fairly - and she certainly saw far more of them than we mortals. I remember meeting Nixon and immediately disliking his appearance - and his inability to make eye contact when shaking hands - bad form!!

Maida - I agreed with most of LS's assessments of the presidents also, particularly Nixon; however, there is an article in today's paper about Nixon, aside from bringing the worst scandal ever to the presidency, he did shape foreign policy that continues to this day.

LS states, correctly, I think"

"Watergate changed journalism forever. It introduced an era of reporting through anonymous sources. It ushered in a swarm-around-em mentality where reporters and cameramen hounded people; it was undignified, lacked decorum and reduced our standing with the public."

LS writes about this "stalking" in several places in the book and, obviously, doesn't like it anymore than the subjects, but to keep up with the pack she must be as tough as they.

I wonder how long the public, or the subjects, will continue to endure this behaviour on the part of the press? Do you think it is here to stay? No one certainly approves of it and it is just too disgusting to watch the horde of reporters yelling and pushing their way to a celebrity, particularly when it is a death - as we witnessed lately in JFK's Jr. death and the two sisters. I thought it was dreadful the way the media handled that. Is there anything we, the public, can do to stop this? Do we want to stop it? Are we that hungry for these details that TV needs to devote a whole week to this kind of thing?

Princess Di's death was, in part, due to this factor, Jackie Kennedy had to move out of the country because of it,etc., etc.

There are several opinions of Stahl's I disagree with, however, one being that she liked Sam Donaldson, a man I've never been able to watch on TV. I, too, like many of you here liked David Brinkley and his Sunday morning news show, but I couldn't watch Sam, his hairpiece and his stupid remarks. I thought he was overbearing!

Has anyone read G. Gordon Liddy's book "WILL." I read it as soon as it came out and was fascinated and somewhat horrified at the man. He's something else, as they say.

Now I must mention this diet that LS and her husband lost weight on - the CABBAGE SOUP DIET. Has anyone ever heard of this? I've never tasted cabbage soup before and I want to know if anyone knows how to make it?

Dear Ella,

I've known people on the Cabbage Soup diet, and it does work for a while. I'll try and track it down for you later. If I can find it I'll post it.

I saw L.S. last night on 60 minutes. It was a old piece on how it easy it was to take a two hour class in Florida to obtain a license to carry a gun. It showed her license with her birthdate. December 1941 I think.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Dec. 1941, huh? That makes her exactly one month younger than I am - is that why she still looks gorgeous? Heeee.

I don't like Donaldson either - too smarmy, nasty and rude. Yes, I think that the press reaction to any awful event is here to stay. We have become an immediate society - NOW, NOW, NOW. People, as a whole, don't read as they used to - why bother when one can see the news captured on television in one minute segments? And, because people don't read as they used to, creativity and immagination are suffering. Why imagine Di's death when one can practically see it happen on TV? Our society has become so nuclear that we don't connect with others as we did in years past. Television makes that connection for us without our having to compromise ourselves IN PERSON. I'm not sure why so many relish the gory details, the DAYS of exhaustive coverage from OJ to John, Jr.. I object to the deification of celebrities and think that today's press encourages it. Enough - it's still before dawn - my thinking cap works better later in the day.

Well, I don't have the book yet... but I can add my concurrence regarding TV and reporting. I don't like the hounding of "celebrities" either. Don't understand why they do it--does anyone really watch that stuff? Not me...

I rarely watch TV but in deference to this discussion, I did watch 60 minutes [most of it] the other night. Nice segment Stahl did showing the opposing viewpoints on the carrying of concealed guns. Seems to me anyone who wants to carry a gun should have to not only have a license but have to pass a pretty stringent test on its use, much the same way one gains a drivers' license.

DIET CABBAGE SOUP

1 small to medium sized head of cabbage, washed & chopped 4 stalks celery, cut into bite-size pieces 1 large onion, chopped 2 green peppers, chopped 3 carrots sliced in rounds fresh or frozen spinach (optional) 7 or 8 sliced mushrooms or small can chopped or sliced mushrooms) 2 chicken or beef buillion cubes Pepper (optional) 2 lbs. fresh Roma tomatoes, chopped (or 1 large can whole tomatoes) 2 - 3 qts. Water (add more during cooking as needed)

Bring water to a boil in large pot and add all ingredients. Season with salt, peper and/or Seasonall (but not too much as you're using salty boullion cubes). Cover with lid and reduce heat to "medium" and simmer for 15 minutes. Reduce to "low" setting and simmer for another 15 minutes, or until vegetables are done to your liking. Allow to cool. Put up the remaining Cabbage Soup in individual freezer bags or small plastic serving bowls and freeze for later use. Be prepared! This soup works like a diuretic, and you'll be visiting the bathroom often. You will notice you will take off some weight right away and feel better, too. You can eat this soup any time of the day or evening to stave off hunger. If you eat only the soup for a few days, you'll be amazed at the results. Cabbage Soup is very nutritious and satisfying, plus it takes great! Enjoy!

I admire Leslie Stahl's journalism more than her dietary advice...

Here's a link to the Cabbage Soup Diet Ella!

I like this one from Weight Watchers!!!

Cabbage Soup

Makes 4 servings

2 ounces long-grain rice
1 tablespoon + 1 teaspoon olive oil
2 garlic cloves, slivered
1 cup thinly sliced carrot
1/2 cup diced green bell pepper
4 cups thinly sliced cabbage
1 teaspoon firmly packed light or dark brown sugar
1 1/2 cups crushed tomatoes (no salt added)
8 ounces drained cooked red beans
3/4 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons minced fresh dill
1 tablespoon balsamic or red wine vinegar
2 tablespoons nonfat sour cream



In small saucepan, bring 3/4 cup water to a boil; add rice. Reduce heat to low; simmer, covered, 12-15 minutes, until rice is tender and all liquid is absorbed. Remove from heat; set aside.

In large saucepan or Dutch oven, heat oil; add garlic. Cook over medium-high heat, stirring constantly, 1 minute, until fragrant. Stir in carrot and bell pepper; cook, stirring frequently, 5 minutes, until peppers are softened. Add cabbage and sugar; cook, stirring frequently, 4 minutes, until cabbage is softened.

Add tomatoes, beans, salt and 2 1/2 cups water to vegetable mixture; bring liquid to a boil. Stir in cooked rice; return liquid to a boil. Reduce heat to low; simmer, stirring occasionally, 5 minutes, until mixture is heated through and flavors are blended. Stir in dill and vinegar.

Divide cabbage mixture among 4 soup bowls; top each portion with 1 1/2 teaspoons sour cream.



SERVING (1 3/4 CUPS) PROVIDES: 1 Fat, 3 1/2 Vegetables, 1 Protein, 1/2 Bread, 10 Optional Calories.



PER SERVING: 226 Calories, 5 g Total Fat, 1 g Saturated Fat, 0 mg Cholesterol, 589 mg Sodium, 38 g Total Carbohydrate, 6 g Dietary Fiber, 9 g Protein, 107 mg Calcium .

Recipe from Weight Watchers New 365 Day Menu Cookbook

I think that this mob mentality type of reporting is here to stay. There is tremendous competition among the news reporters and great interest is getting "face time" on television. Add to this the desire of celebrities for publicity (most have publicist) and even the desire of politicians for publicity you have a ready made situation.

I hadn't realized that most sound bites are not limited to about 9 seconds. No wonder we are such a "well educated" society with all this indepth reporting about the events of the day!

I have always rather liked Sam Donaldson and David Brinkley. I also usually watch Tom Brokaw on the evening news. The more I hear about the spinning of the news that goes on the more I want to see reporters be very tough in their questions. In some ways they are the barrier between keeping and losing of our freedoms since the possibility of exposure is a major deterent and a good reason for officials to do right. What really concerns me is the apparent bias of many reporters who seem to take the press releases at face value and are too lazy to do their own investigative reporting.

When I was working in Washington, D.C., some years ago had a call from a staffer for Jack Anderson inquiring about something. I didn't enjoy the experience and was concerned that my name was going to appear in the newspaper the next day. Fortunately it didn't.

Larry

FRAN, MAIDA, JERYN AND LARRY - Thanks so much for your comments! It seem we all agree that the press has gone too far in their coverage of events but , at the same time, we are powerless to halt this assault, other than to be a few that do not want it. How many times have we heard that the media give people what they want? They are forever taking polls so someone is watching if we're not!

To answer Ann's question, I didn't learn anything new about Watergate or Nixon, but I learned a great deal about LS, perhaps more than she would like us to know? No, I doubt that, this is a good reporter and I think she wrote what she wanted to, so to summarize before we go on to the second chapter:

She's tough (had to be in the world of male reporters), persistent, successful, obsessed with her job and her appearance, doesn't hesitate to go to shrink if the need arises, insecure as shown by her constant need of mother's approval, happily married with one daughter, and, although not a feminist in the true sense, is very sympathetic to women's issues.

Have I been fair? What have I left out?

Thanks so much Charles and Pat for the Cabbage Soup Recipes! Having gained a few unwanted lbs, I'm starting on it today - anybody want to join me?

If LS is to be believed, Mr Cater really depended on Mrs Carter backing him up in his decisions. I read his book and he really didn't reveal this point. In fact, I must go back to that book and look up some of the events that LS reports.

I would have to disagree that Watergate started all this live coverage as we all remember that the first live event was Kennedy's death and the shooting of the perpetrator right there in front of our very eyes. We became so besotted with instant news that the reporters must have thought that we needed it all the time. I have never been a watcher of Sam D. either just because I preferred for a time, David Brinkley and also, Tom Brokaw. I became really sick of Dan Rather during the Watergate scandal as I was awakened every morning by him and his slathering about Nixon. He did go after the man with a vengeance. Or at least, it seemed that way then. And, I never thought to change my alarm radio station! I just got up and shut him off. Now its just part of the reporting scene to be nasty and always hinting at more of a story. Of course, LS had to become like "them" to get ahead in her career. What a way to make a livelihood. Not my cup of tea! I do watch "60 Minutes" if something they are doing interests me. Try to catch the intro or look at the cable lineup on the screen to see what they are doing that evening. Most of this summer has been repeats.

Oh, Yeah, Ann?? I know what you mean ( the restroom syndrome), but Stahl kept her job, will keep you informed. I made the soup this morning (enough for a hog party, whew!), and the whole house smells just delicious! Tastes good, too!

Ann - you said something about "hinting at another story" - does it irritate you as it does me that the news broadcasters do that thing constantly - imitating the Baptist preacher who first announced what his sermon was going to be, then gave the sermon, and then summarized it. A lot of that "hinting at what's coming" is so unnecessary!

Cannot understand why Stahl COMPLETELY LEFT OUT THE FORDS in her book. Betty Ford, particularly, was one of my alltime favorite first ladies, she spoke her mind, regardless of the consequences - loved her!

Ella, I think LS gave us the answer to your question about why she left out the Fords. On page 49 of the book she said "I went back to Washington to be a general assignment correspondent. Gerald Ford was president. It was a boring time. We all missed the Trick."

Wouldn't a little boredom from the White House be refreshing rather than having to have the photo ops and spinning of events like today.

Larry

Larry - Yes, indeed, it would!

What would the reporters talk about then?

Have you wondered, at times, if the TV set (reporters?) is responsible for all the skirmishes we have had over the last few years? The pictures that are on the news of horror, starvation, violence going on in other countries start (the government?)the ball rolling in the direction of helping in our way these conflicted folks. I'm thinking of Haiti, Ruwanda, Bosnia just to name a few and I wonder if we have made a difference?

We all want to be informed, but not tooooo informed!! Sometimes the message is not what we want to hear, and I think we tend to blame the messenger.

This is a job, and if they do not report the news, all the news, many people will just turn to another channel. What I personally don't like is how the Evening News has become a series of very short stories, that many times have nothing to do with the day's news. That is why I enjoy reading the New York Times. There I think you get the whole story, and many of them.

About the Cabbage Diet....I realized just before I clicked on here that I was going to check it out, and I did. There are a few sites dedicated to warning you that the diet is dangerous. Especially if that is all you eat for a long time. They also stated that while it burns fat fast it is too difficult to stay on.

But...I agree it does smell delicious. I am salivating already just thinking about it.

I may be able to get a copy of LS book once again at my library. I put a hold on it, and I am the only one now. So, I will keep my fingers crossed.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

It seems to me that competition is 95% of the deal for reporters whether they be a LS or some new cub on a small town paper. The hunt for newsworthy items and being the first to break some snippet of a story seems to be what keeps all of them on their toes - why LS and others stake out the houses of supposedly important people, follow celebrities, etc. When something major occurs, e.g. John Jr.'s unfortunate death, the news hounds spend days not only covering the actual event but dredging up every tiny scrap of information about the person/event. Are we supposed to be aghast to find out that John Jr. was kind to little children and small animals?

Perhaps the difference between the Nixon and Ford administrations was so pronounced that the latter was deemed boring. I agree that Betty Ford is quite a lady; I hold her in high esteem for opening up a dialogue about breast cancer and women who abuse addictive substances.

I have no objection to the news media covering events and informing us of what is happening in the world. However, in the last few months we have seen the around the clock coverage of events long after there was really nothing to talk about. The JFK Jr. plane crash and the high school shootings I felt were perfect examples of where a periodic update would have kept the public informed whereas the 24 hour coverage, almost to the exclusion of everything else, is just so excessive. We recently had lightning strike an apartment building in Atlanta and one of the local stations kept their helecopter hovered over the fire and showed the building burning down for about 3 hours. Excessive, I think so.

Maida, I don't remember the Ford Administration as being so boring. Maybe it was take for the reporters because they didn't come up with much in the way of scandal. I agree with you that Betty Ford was and is a very fine lady who has made her mark.

Larry

Another moment on the Carters, I did look at his book but its the one on aging gracefully and he really didn't mention much about Presidency except to exclaim surprise that he was out of a job so quick. He is a very interesting and compassionate man. Lives in Plains,GA and commutes 120 miles to Emory University as a professor there, several times a week. I led a group that visited his presidential library and we all found it fascinating. Learned much about what happens to the families who live in the White House. Mr Carter and his wife are avid health concious people and to keep up with their busy schedules they run daily and ride their bicycles frequently,too. I can't imagine running at any age since it makes my insides jiggle! But, there they are, in their seventies, ggrandparents, out there in their shorts and that hot Georgia sun running almost daily. I remember when Carter was running for president that friends of ours from Georgia said please don't vote for him, he had about ruined the state of Georgia, as govenor. I do believe that the man was just in the wrong position at the right time. He might have fared better as Secretary of State with his many talents as a peacemaker. Who knows?

I do agree with Maida that these people are just doing their jobs but how about a little accountability? And, quit hinting that there is more here than meets the eye. Watching the news has become more like watching Entertainment Tonight.

Having just eaten my stalk of celery and tomato slices for breakfast, I'm feeling very thin already! Strange diet, but intend to stay with it a week at least! Guaranteed to lose 5 lbs. - I hope!! Soup for lunch and dinner - I think the trick here is not to linger at the table very long, you keep thinking of all the good things you wish you were eating.

Fran - Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the "evening news has become a series of very short stories." Rather like turning the pages of a magazine isn't it? I've almost forgotten how Walter Cronkite delivered the news - and you would all agree with me that he was one of the best, wouldn't you? There is just this burst, and I do mean explosive burst, of the news - meant to shake you up and pay attention! The music, and then comes the fireworks, put together just like a show.

Maida - "Perhaps the difference between the Nixon and Ford administrations was so pronounced that the latter was deemed boring."

I'm sure you've hit the nail here! We couldn't have stood much more excitement than we did with Nixon and his gang and when Ford came along with his "pardon" and his quiet demeanor, it must have seemed like a field of sheep after the wolf has had his fill. I don't remember anything that President Ford did in office - I remember the reporters talking of his stumbling - was it off a plane? But Betty Ford was exceptional I think and her establishment of the Betty Ford Clinic for addiction, etc. is a wonderful achievement.

Larry - what do you remember of the Ford Administration? "a periodic update would have kept the public informed whereas the 24 hour coverage, almost to the exclusion of everything else, is just so excessive"

Excessive is so precisely the right word. Why? Perhaps they feel that people just tune in at certain times of the day because they keep repeating the "facts" over and over again. I'd love to ask just one of them why this pounding at such a time. I wonder if the media act like this in other countries?

Ann - You were living in Georgia at the time of the Carter presidency? Did you hear many negative comments? You said " when Carter was running for president that friends of ours from Georgia said please don't vote for him, he had about ruined the state of Georgia, as govenor." His fiscal policies obviously were poor. Yet he is purportedly a very intelligent and learned man - and since his retirement we have heard nothing but good things about the man.

However, LS has hardly one good word for him - phrases such as "failing as a president" - "incompetent " - "weak and ineffectual" - she even had this to say, "Jimmy Carter had a thin voice……unimposing stature....seemed compelled to demonstrate that he and the young southerners he had brought with him weren't the yahoos the columnists were saying they were....he would show them. And he didn't, in LS's opinion.

Hey Ella! Share here about your weight loss! ;o)

Ella, I guess I don't remember much about the Ford administration other than his pardoning Nixon and defending it on the basis that the country needed to end that sorry episode.

Carter went to Washington as an outsider and brought outsiders with him that didn't seem to understand much about how things get done in Washington in a political sense. If you can't sell your ideas and get support from the other politicians you are not going to be successful. Think Carter was too decent to use the FBI files to be sure the politicians did what he wanted. He is apparently a very intelligent man.

In case you didn't hear, Carter and his wife were both presented with the Medal of Freedom this week by President Clinton.

The senior adult Sunday School class from our church recently made a bus trip to Plains and attended Jimmy Carter's Sunday School class. A similar trip was made last year and apparently this is quite common here in Georgia.

Larry

I think that President Carter has made one of the very best ex presidents. He and Rosalyn are really to be admired. I know that his defeat must have been a terrible blow to both of them, but they have proved themselves outstanding citizens.

About President Ford...I do remember one thing he did. I don't think it was too successful though. He had a program called W I N. And it stood for....Whip Inflation Now. I remembered it because I collect buttons....political type buttons, and I remember seeing that recently.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

I agree with all of you on Jimmy Carter. He was, at the time, underrated, but in his later years has literally become a man of the world. No one has mentioned his considerable work on Habitat for Humanity - certainly a worthwhile cause.

Is it okay to post a photo in this discussion? I, after hours of searching, unearthed my freshman directory from Wheaton and so have a small picture of LS - her high school graduation photo I'm sure - that's what we all used. I'll post it if it's okay.

Maida, if you will e-mail that photo to me I will put it up in the heading of this discussion after putting the photo up on the SN server. That will assure that it will load quickly.

Fran, I do remember the W I N program.

Maida, the Habitat for Humanity is very visible here in Georgia. In fact, our church provided all of the money and the labor to build a house for a lady and her two children. They did it in 6 Saturday of work after extensive organizational efforts. Our church is planning on contributing the cost and building a second home this year. Certainly the involvement of the Carter's has helped the organization get attention and promoted its fine mission to help people get their own homes. My wife is involved with a quilters group in our church and they made a special quilt for the family of the first house and are now working to complete another quilt for this next family.

Larry

An hour long interview of Leslie Stahl is on Lifetime channel today, the 13th. 3:00 PM central---I think. Check the time to be sure. I saw her on Larry King promoting this book several weeks ago and was vaguely disappointed. Maybe today's interview will add to the picture. Betty G. (readerdoc)

Storm delayed but will be so welcome when it arrives!

Oh, yes, Maida we want to see that picture - please send it to Larry! And I'm going to watch LS being interviewed this pm. She always so unflappable I think - never have seen her lose her "cool."

Here are a few quotes for those who do not have the book:

Several of you have mentioned Carter as an outsider and bringing his southern friends with him to the White house. Here's what LS says in regard to this:

For Carter, playing the outsider game was more than a political miscalculation; it was an imperative. Perhaps it came from a southerner's insecurity, but he just had to prove he could do the job on his own. He seemed compelled to demonstrate that he and the young southerners he had brought with him weren't the yahoos the columnists were saying they were. He would show them. And he would show the press, which, like so many of his predecessors, he had come to see as an army arrayed against him.

Do any of you see any resemblance to our current southern president?

As to the question do reporters or the press influence policy here are a couple of incidents that LS has talked about:

In 1977 The New York Times had called it "Cronkite Diplomacy" when Egypt's Anwar Sadat told Walter in a TV interview that he was willing to meet with Israel's Menachem Begin without any preconditions. Within hours Cronkite had Begin on the air, inviting Sadat to Jerusalem.

Of course, that time all turned out well, but --------? And another during the Iran hostage crisis:

Over the next several weeks the networks fed the American people a diet of Iranian demonstrators chanting anti-American slogans and burning effigies of Jimmy Carter. Critics charged that our coverage intensified the crisis and prolonged the hostages' captivity. But in the beginning the White House encouraged our approach……..President Carter's ratings went up. And up…….The more the Iranians attacked Carter and called him the Great Satan, the more his stature grew. What Carter didn't grasp was that his strategy of keeping the story on the front page would increase the value of the hostages to their captors.

And one astute observation by LS:

TV pictures are, by the nature of the medium, "hot"; they spark emotional responses. There is no question that the pictures from Tehran and the intensity of our coverage narrowed the president's options………It was difficult to balance our responsibilities; to give the public all the information we had, not to censor ourselves, and yet not to inflame, not to do harm.

Does the president use the press? Yes, of course, he does. I think they will use any means to stay in the good graces of the public, don't you? Should he? I don't know.

I know all politicians do - come any election time I sigh and sigh because it is so difficult to get a straight story and to vote. Newsmagazines and newspapers can do a good job, but are often slanted. How do you decide?

It is difficult to decide for whom to vote often, and in particular when neither candidate is offering a program that you can enthusiastically support. I do try to be well informed. And for that I need to know the candidate's track record, read both the liberal and conservative press, watch the candidate on television, and then make up my mind.

As you can see by the above....the press plays a very important part in my decision, and over the years I think they do a good job. I would rather be oversaturated than have less information.

The big problem for me, often times, is whether to vote for either candidate, or to vote for a third candidate that doesn't stand a chance, but is putting forth an agenda that I can support.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Maida, thanks for the picture.

Larry

Yes, Ella, we were living in Atlanta when Carter was president,but in 1980 only. My husband was involved in the redesigning of a plane to rescue the hostages. If I took him to work, I had to drop him off at the main gate of the plant. He was not allowed to tell us where the group worked. We all referred to it as "the grey hole" in reference to the company's well known "black hole" which is in California. The pictures of the failure of the plane and its crash were on TV a few years ago and that's when my husband told us about what he had been doing. He was kidded quite a lot during the 6 or 8 months that the secret program went on but the funniest thing that happened was when I was in the beauty salon and the lady cutting my hair told me what she "knew" was going on at the company while she preceded to lay out the whole program. And,although I didn't know it at the time, she was right!!! You can't keep a secret anywhere!!

Regarding Mr Carter, I just think he was a good man who was not very political. From what LS says, we can see that he didn't want to make any decisions by group opinion but only on his own. And, his cabinet was just not up to it. He has done the Habitat for Humanity program a world of good. Really brought it to the forefront and so many good things have been accomplished in his name. Our company and our church both helped to build many homes in our area of Atlanta, Marietta, and you will be glad to know that the women of that area joined together to build one by themselves. Quite a nice little house and the lady who was going to buy it was thrilled that her sisters had been so successful.

If I remember, Larry, don't the owners get a special loan deal to purchase these homes? It is such a great program. And, they don't start the house until the purchaser has signed a loan agreement which means a real check into their ability to make the payments. Probably one of the most sensible programs to help the poor that we have ever come up with. In this country, pride of ownership, of our own home, is a big deal and means so much to all of us. I understand there are similar building programs going on in foreign countries which are connected to Habitat for Humanity.

Back to the Carters, they are always busy helping people in Georgia and we have a lot to thank them for when it comes to giving America a good image. Especially after looking at the present presidency. We do appreciate morality in this country. Must be our puritan background. And, I still think that if you are immoral in your private life, you will be immoral in your dealings in your public life. And, I am not talking about "SEX"!! Its your attitude and how you effect other people's reaction to your leadership. Just call me Wm Bennet!!

Ann, a very nice post above and I agree with you on the issue of morality. Perhaps Carter was the person we needed at the time even if he was not terribly successful as a president. He inherited many tough problems including run away inflation, as I recall. It was in 1980 that we moved to Atlanta for the first time and had to buy a home with a 14 or 15 percent mortgage rate. The hostage crisis in Iran was a terrible burden for Carter.

I think you are right on the habitat houses. I know that the family getting the house has to put in so much sweat equity as the house is being built and they do have to pay for the house. Carter's celebrity has done a lot to attract attention to this very worthwhile program.

I have a feeling that reporters become very jaded concerning the people they cover day by day. The picture she paints of the presidents is certainly somewhat different than the public image their handlers project. Reagan is a great example.

Larry

Thank you so much Maida for that picture! Her hair style is so different and her face much fuller than today! Of course, it would be - she's a bit older (trying not to say a thing about her age considering you are the same, HA!). And I know you look every bit as good as she!

Watched the interview Lifetime did yesterday afternoon and although we learned a bit about her early years, most of the program, of course, was on her career life and it is all in the book. Linda Ellerbee wrote the script or had screen credits, Cokie Roberts was the narrator, love to see women's programs by women!

Just before we go on to the Reagan years, there is just one other item that I remembered from reading these two chapters. A couple of times LS has said that in times of prosperity no incumbent president has been put out of office - she named the second time that Nixon was elected even though his administration was undergoing pressure from the press, and then in this chapter LS blamed Carter's loss of the election on the economy.

And then recently a good economy and a president being re-elected, despite scandal - in very prosperous times. I had never put the two together before - the economy and the election. Perhaps all of you had; I wonder if going back in history this has always been true. Do you really believe the president himself or his chosen cabinet has this much power to effect the economy?

I'm not sure that politics account for much when the country is, on the whole, feeling good about itself. Our economy is sound (thank Alan Greenspan), unemployment is down, the stock market soars to new heights almost daily and crime is way down! I think that the "people" let Clinton get away with what he did because most didn't really care one way or another. The country seems to focus more on the politicians when things are quite so hunky dory - and then we want some important person with important save the country ideas to be the president. Carter was probably the last totally decent man we've had as president but he couldn't fight the public sentiment that he was too much of a loner - and he certainly wasn't a save the country kind of man. Then, of course, Ronald Reagan came along - he had all of that born actor's charisma, he gave wonderfully comfy speeches, he looked grandfatherly (trustworthy, rspectable and experienced) and when he spoke it was with such authority and humor that Americans seemed to just fall for the whole ball of wax.

I have enjoyed LS's take on all of these men and their retinues/wives/cabinet and judicial appointees. Perhaps she and I see the overall affect these men have/had from a perspective of growing up during the late 40's and 50's - only to have just about all of our dictums, assumptions and even values seemingly negated by the wild and crazy 60's. Those years were heady for us - we were in our 20's and all of a sudden it seemed as though we were given carte blanche to let it all hang out. When young parents come to school and ask me when and why our society has become what it is I tell them that the 60's happened - in retrospect, all hell broke loose and we haven't been the same since.

I think I told you that I had read LS book as soon as it came out. Well, lucky me....I was able to pick it up at the library today, so I can really discuss it with the book in front of me to review.

That is one of the beauties of having a terrible memory. I feel as if I hadn't read the book before at all. It's the same thing with television shows and movies. Sometimes I think it is curse, and other times a blessing.

My husband George is reading the latest Bob Woodward book called "Shadow", and Woodward's main theses is that none of the Presidents after Nixon learned the lesson of the Nixon presidency.....that the crime is less important than the coverup. At any rate he thinks that Carter made two big mistakes. One in his staff of young Georgians with no Washington experience, and two with his inability to ask members of congress for help.

Actually I agree with Stahl, and think it was the economy, and the Reagan candidacy. Reagan was so appealing compared to just about every other candidate. Did anyone really listen to what he said??? Or care?

Do we start on the next chapter now? At last I can be in sync.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Maida - Yes, that is so true! "I think that the "people" let Clinton get away with what he did because most didn't really care one way or another.

Times were good, everybody was happy and they ignored - whether rightly or wrongly - Clinton's behavior.

As we get into the Reagan years, it is the president that is lackadaiscal so much of the time.

Have you noticed how much space LS has devoted to Reagan in her book? Could it be that this was her favorite among the others, or she was enchanted with him and Nancy? Why so much about these two?

Yes, indeed, we could go on and on about the 60's couldn't we? It changed so many lives!

Fran Am so happy you got the book and can follow along with some of us that have it! THANK YOU SO MUCH! I DO APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST AND EVERYONE'S INTEREST IN THE DISCUSSION.

And so (pg.119) - starting right at the beginning of the Reagan chapter, LS has this to say:

Newspaper and magazines such as TIME and NEWSWEEK usually change their White House reporters when a new president comes to town; the networks do so some of the time.

Why? Isn't a good reporter always a good reporter? Obviously, they thought LS was as she retained her job.

At least I think it was Maida who posted the photo of LS taken from her college year book.

Like so many of us......she has gotten more attractive over the years.

Big Smile..........

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Fran: There is a critical article in the Time Sunday Magazine 9 Aug 15) about Bob Woodward and his new book..Your husband might enjoy the article.

Also,recommend seeing the new movie Dick. It's a howl & a hoot..wonderful satire.

Ella, I would expect that the change of reporters in the WhiteHouse with the change of Administration probably has to do with getting worn out. I got tired just reading about the schedule and travel that LS had to do. Early mornings to late at night, travel and wait but always alert to go on camera. The pressure of writing and interviewing and then making the presentation on television. Certainly not an easy job, although it appears that LS, Sam Donaldson and Helen Thomas have thrived on the grind. I guess they see a lot of history made and develop a lot of contacts.

Larry

Larry - LS went to extremes at times in details didn't she? How in the world did she remember all that in order to write it? Did she keep a daily dairy or does she have a phenomenal memory?

It would be very smart if all people in the public would and could keep a daily dairy - I imagine a great many do, considering all the books that come out about different aspects of presidents, celebrities, wars, just to name a few.

Did you watch Booknotes last night Larry? That story Elizabeth Norman tells in her book "WE BAND OF ANGELS" is an unknown tale of WWII - I'm going to buy the book for my daughter who is an Army Reserve Nurse and was called to active duty in the Gulf War.

I'll be back later today!

Ah, yes, Larry, I too was exhausted by from reading of all the traveling and being ready to go on the air and having things go wrong at the last minute. For a long time, I didn't realize that people like LS wrote their own copy. Just thought they read it, I guess. What a heavy responsibility to have.

Ella, I think that many people must be keeping some kind of diary when you look at the plethora of titles offered today in the biography section of the bookstores.

I am on page 157 and thought that I was behind everyone so I will wait for y'all to catch up with me.

Ella, I didn't see that BookNotes. Sorry I missed it.

One of the things I learned from this book is that each reporter seems to have a producer working with them. I also wonder if LS kept a diary, but wouldn't be surprised. At least she would have access to the archives of CBS News, which must be extensive, and probably has kept all of her own written news pieces.

Larry

I hurriedly went through all the Notes in the back of the book, which are mainly articles from magazines - certainly they don't tell where she was, who she was with, the conversation, the incident, etc. She must have kept a diary.

Ann I'm past you! Getting ready to discuss Reagan's view of women, etc. Glad he's out of office!

Fran - Are you still with us?

Maida - Has your school started? What and where do you teach?

Gail - Are you out there?

Come in and give us your opinion of the Reagan Administration, Nancy (Oh, boy, wait until we get into that subject!!!!), his family, his views, his forgetfulness.

HELLO!

readerdoc?

Need everyone's ideas about this chapter and the above!

Ella,

I recently read We Band of Angels and can't recommend it enough. It's one helluva story. Interestingly enough one of the women mentioned and pictured lived, at the time, in Hampton, NH where I now live. I tried to track her down both at the library and historical society - her name was Rita Palmer. Perhaps I'll try the town records when I find the time.

School begins for us on Aug. 30 - my free time is nearly over, for once I return to work I must rise at 4:45 and commute an hour each way to my seven and a half hour work day. I confess that I'm rapidly getting too old for this crazy routine and long for retirement - in 2001. I have promised myself to check on SN early in the AM and after school when I can - so talk on - I'm "listening"!!

Maida: I'll look for you in the early morning. I too, get up at 5:00 AM, but I'm an hour behind you... And i don't have to commute. It's just 2 blocks to the school where I do the computers.

I did start to read the chapter about LS and the Reagan administration. What can I say? He was an actor who was elected President of the United States, or as LS has taught me POTUS. I must be really dense, but for the longest time I just didn't get it.

By the way Ed. We both read the article in the magazine section of yesterday's NY Times about the Woodward book. I am using it to compare what LS thought, and what he thought.

I think he tried his best. I think he didn't like details and left too much for the men around him to work out, and then he would sign off on it. His relationship with Nancy was obviously more important to him that his relationship with his own children.

I am not comfortable talking about him now because he is so ill, and I feel so sorry for Nancy as caregiver.

If Bob Woodward is correct Lawrence Walsh, the special prosecutor concerning the Iran/Contra deal, was ready to indict Reagan after he left office, and went out to California to have him testify. Reagan just couldn't remember anything, and Walsh did not think he was faking. But he spoke to him later on a different subject, and Reagan remembered everything about that. I think that is the way that awful disease goes.

He was not served well by the men who reported to him, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he either did not know anything about Iran/Contra, but signed off on it, or knew about it, but then forgot. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I love to read about LS family, and how her daughter was so independent, and her husband was such a great father. Lucky Leslie!!

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Maida - That's a good enough recommendation for me - I'm buying the book. I told more about it in the Good War discussion we are having about WWII. I had not remembered, if I ever knew, that MacArthur deserted his troops in the Philippines; while they were surrendering to the Japanese, he was receiving a Medal of Honor in Australia. However, the nurses who endured 4 years of horror, filth and disease did not express bitterness over MacArthur's escape (for lack of a better word) - they were just so grateful to come out of there alive.

A 2-hour commute - Mercy, that's hard on you and your car. WOW! We'll just aall celebrate your retirement in 2001 with you! By any chance can you take a weekend off in November and fly to Chicago for our Second Annual Gathering of the "bookies?" We would love to meet you! Here is where you can get all the information you need: (I'm always recruiting - smile! if you already know all this!)

Chicago - 1999 Book Groups

Hi Pat! Are you following along with us? Reading the book? If you are, for heavens' sake do answer some of the questions above? Pat knows secrets about sending out beautiful emails with all kinds of graphics and fonts - lovely things. She's doing our newsletters plus for our November Gathering!

Larry - I don't know how I put those lines around the questions in the heading? Did I do it somehow or did you come in and do I? Really like them and want to know how they are done. I was just astonished to see them!

Fran Yes, POTUS - that took me a few minutes also! Must be shorthand with the reporters, would imagine they have loads of them, and LS slipped that in there without letting her readers know what she was talking about!

I can understand your responsiveness to President Reagan and his wife at this time of their lives. Obviously LS had no problem with this; presidents are fair game whether alive, ill or dead. When you seek the highest office in the land you open up your life and everyone around you to the most terrible scrutiny imaginable. And now Hillary wants to do that all over again!!! Wouldn't you think she would want a few quiet years in between.

As for the actor in the man, I recall LS likening his staff to a studio - he had the producer, director, screenwriter in place and he could relax and just recite the lines. However, I have one place marked in the book where she says:

There's no question Nancy Reagan ran the studio, and did so more as time went by. In "Affairs of State, about first couples, the historian Gil Troy argues that first ladies tradionally reach for power when their husbands are weak. Ronald Reagan certainly was that throughout the 1983 recession...... a first lady in that circumstance will be resented if not reviled, because in our system of democracy there is a reflexive resistance to any unelected force that tries to exercise control.

Other places in the book LS refers to Reagan's weaknesses. Personally, I never thought too much of him as a president. He never seemed to be a strong leader, although I liked watching and listening to him - such charm and good looks! I remember seeing him in movies when young and perhaps that is why I didn't see him as a leader of the free world. Seeing the two of them, Nancy and Ronnie, was watching a true love story.

His ex-wife, Jane Wyman, was never recalled by anyone. Their daughter Maureen seemed a remarkable person to me - does anyone know anything at all about Jane Wyman - did she ever remarry? Have any more children? I remember her very well in the movies also.

I'll be gone all day tomorrow, but see all of you later in the week!

A VERY WARM THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!

Fran Didn't mean to sound as if you were not invited - Hahahaaa! Do come.

Everyone on Seniornet is welcome, whether they read books with us or not. Bring your husbands, friends, daughters, sons with you for a grand ole time in the Windy City come November.

Last year in NYC 5 of us brought our daughters! That was fun! We have a group mother/daughter picture which I treasure.

Ella, there was a missing quotation mark at the end of the url for the 60 minute website. I fixed it.

I have always admired President Reagan, even though I know he had many faults and was certainly staged in most of his presentations. He apparently held certain views and didn't waver from them. I have always felt he was the type of leader needed as he seemed to instill confidence and a great love for the United States. I have always expected that if he signed off on some of the covert actions he was probably just told to sign and did as he didn't like to get involved in the details. The LS books certainly reveals a lot about his lack of attention that his handlers didn't let the public see very often. Remember him always reading off the of 5x7 cards.

Larry

Well, LS did prove to herself that sometimes Reagan was sharper than they thought. She was impressed with the speech with all the changes and additions pencilled in.He seemed to be bored with it at times though.

I thought Reagan carried the country back into being patriotic and having pride in being an American. And, I don't think we noticed that he was acting, at the time. I can remember someone commenting after he was shot, that he probably was having trouble getting over the anesthetic, that when you are older and you have surgery, it takes longer to get over it.

I heard on the radio yesterday that already the officials in D.C. are discussing what they will do when he dies. They have plans to have lay in state in the Rotunda of the Congress and to bury him at Arlington. Seems he is really not doing well now. I do feel bad for Nancy. That is such a hard way to go.

Ann, did you see the two-part interview that Tom Brokaw did with Nancy Reagan on the news last week? It sure looks like this is taking a big toll on Nancy as well. She seemed rather melancoly, as could be expected under the circumstances. She spoke of how cruel some people have been to her.

Since we have several living ex-presidents, I expect there are a lot of plans already made for their passing and what will be done.

Larry

How I wish I could join all of you in Chicago! I've read all the info that you have provided and think it would just be a dream trip. Someone please raise a glass in my absence!!!

Reagan won himself much clout (and the NH Primary) when he slammed his hand down during a debate in Nashua (NH) and said, firmly, "Mr. Green, I PAID for this microphone!" We loved him on the spot for taking such a firm (and I'm sure spontaneous) stand with the media. He did, I think, have flashes of what most of us want POTUS to be - in control, firm, kindly and intelligent. LS's stories about his gradual retreat from the man we thought we knew was sad for me, but I was sure that something was amiss each time I saw loyal Nancy cue him when he spoke publically.

Are any of you really surprised that Hilary wants more of the same? I'm not. She's one tough cookie.

Maida, no chance for you in Chicago? Would kill to meet you!!

Ginny

I AM in the minority here, as I did not think he was a strong president although he was charming, who could dispute that?

LS published this book this year so obviously she's tougher than we are - who find it difficult to find fault with a dying man. It may take some years before the definitive work on Reagan's presidency.

However, there is one point that I think we can make; hopefully without besmirching the man's reputation. LS gives many instances of his attitude towards women in the book and I do think he tried to change, but it must be difficult for any man raised in our generation. He brought Elizabeth Dole into his Cabinet as transportation secretary and former Massachusetts Congresswoman Margaret Heckler as secretary of health and human services.

I think it would be fun for all of us to go off on an adventure of our own the rest of this week, before we get into the Bush presidency.

All of you have an assignment! Let's go on the internet and see what interesting tidbits we can find on the following women!

Barbara Bush
Geraldine Ferraro
Maureen Reagan
Madeline Albright

Any that you want to add? Are you all game if you have time? And if you don't have time, just give your opinion.

I saw Geraldine Ferraro in person while she was campaigning and she was a terrific personality! I skipped work a half-day and went to a breakfast where she was introduced by our awful first lady at the time - Dagmar Celeste. Ferraro had everyone there eating out of her hand, she was so clearly sincere, confident and in control. I felt like I could sit down and talk to her at a table - so unlike what I feel about Hillary Clinton. I believe I read in LS's book that she was rooting for her also; that she felt as if Geraldine was speaking for women everywhere!

I feel the same way about Barbara Bush - do any of you? There are certain women you feel comfortable with right away - frank, honest and they speak their mind!

And then that very strong-minded Madeline Albright, who came to our OSU - my hometown - for a town meeting and was heckled by all the students so terribly; but the lady handled the situation very well.

I think you have all been very kind to Reagan. I am not that charitable. The news that we actually heard was so limited, and Lesley Stahl confirms thoughts that I've always had about the fact that Ed Meese and Nancy ran the country.

Reagan was a very personable person. After all he was trained to be charming. But I don't think he had the vaguest notion how to go about being president. I'm sure he wanted the best for the country, but he was so controlled by Ed Meece and Nancy, that his own ideas were changed to fit their own ideas.

In educating myself about Ahlzeimers, the counselor pointed out that people in the field felt that Reagan was showing early symptoms in the latter part of his term.. Stahl seems to point out some of those incidents.

I don't think I better start on Nancy.

I don't mean to be such a goody two shoes about the Reagan presidency just because he is so ill now. I agree with the two of you. He did not represent my views at all, and long before he told the American people that he was suffering from Alzheimers he never seemed to be able to handle anything that was off the cuff, rather than scripted.

I did see that interview last week with Nancy Reagan and Tom Brokaw, and it was so sad. As Larry commented she looked so forlorn and definitely much older than she ever was before. I am sure that losing her Ronnie will be a terrible blow to her.

On page 127 LS writes about his use of Voodoo economics where he predicted that his massive tax cuts would not necessitate major cuts in government cuts in federal programs or services. When they later did, and he met with the Black Caucus and mayors directly affected by these cuts his manner "lullabyed them". Quite a difference from Jimmy Carter who never had that grace.

By the way....I had signed up for the Chicago Book Club Meeting, and then was reminded of an impending cruise so had to cancel. Sorry about that for sooo many reasons. All of them having to do with the friends I've made on Seniornet.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Fran... I was so hoping that I would get a chance to meet you in Chicago... Another time?

I have always admired the way that Barbara Bush has conducted herself. She is one classy lady. Really enjoyed reading her book after they left the White House. As I recall she spoke ill of no one but know she must have had many times she would have liked to do so. Hard to believe anyone could be so petty to order someone never to wear a red dress.

I thought the Geraldine Ferraro was treated very poorly as she ran and have wondered why she didn't get back into politics.

Really don't know very much about the other two so will be interested in information that others may have on them.

Rather frightening to think of Reagan making decisions involving nuclear warfare and negotiating with the Russians. In addition to Nancy and Meese, I have always felt that Jim Baker was the power behind the throne.

Larry

Larry

Ella, are you cheating again? Hahahaha! I know you read Allbright's book and thought it was great. I am ambivalent when it comes to her. I have heard from the males around here that the leaders of the free world do not want to sit down with her at a conference which just makes me crazy! Yesterday, she was discussing her clothing style or something at a conference and I thought what goes on here? Can you imagine a male doing that?

I thought that Geraldine Ferraro did run again for a state position. I did like her a lot but knew that she couldn't win. Also, I like the governor of New Jersey, what is her name?

Barbara Bush has been a credit to the country.But, she didn't rock any boats, did she?

Larry, I didn't see Brokaw's program with Nancy but would have been interested in what she had to say.

I think the economy rides on its own tracks and when a president claims he had something to do with it, I find that a bit hard to swallow. If he weren't there the same thing would have happened, its an up and down matter. All tied to the world's economy, not just our country's. 'Nuff said, I think!

Maida and Fran, So sorry we won't meet you in Chicago but maybe next time and there is one. I think we are going to England in the spring and to Boston in the following fall or winter. So, please put it on your calendar

I have scanned a photo and sent it to Larry for posting if he sees fit. It's a treasured reminder for me because just a couple of months after it was taken I was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer - my pain level in the photo was considerable.

Spent part of a morning with Barbara Bush - just the two of us and a driver - we were in transit from one NH city to another and I was invited to be her companion for the trip! I was floored and felt speechless - can any of you imagine me speechless? Anyway, we were each provided with a bag lunch which we ate with our shoes off and feet tucked up on the seat. I had no grandchildren then but recall her speaking lovingly of hers. She laughed about the rigors of campaigning and expressed anger over the national press and what she considered unfair treatment of some issue at the time. She laughs easily, wasn't at all stiff or pretentious - we were really two old broads out for a drive in extraordinary circumstances.

I, too, thought that Ferraro was terrific - liked her frank and forthwith manner - as well as her sense of humor. As I mentioned before, I don't even want to consider Hilary who I see as dangerously clever, rapacious, humorless and driven. I couldn't relate to her for a minute. Met Nancy too - she really is tiny - and she was nervous and gave an embarrassingly poor speech on her husband's behalf. She probably improved over the White House years. No question that she, Meese and Baker had most of the power.

I have a feeling that Barbara Bush had more influence behind the scenes than will ever be told. Unlike our current First Lady, who seems to think she is a co-President, Barbara seemed pleased to let her husband have the spotlight, while being there to help him.

Maida, it appears that your experience with Mrs. Bush confirms that what you see is what she is. That must have been a very nice experience for you.

Larry

Boy, Maida, you're something else! LOOK at all these people you've met! I haven't met any celebrity at all, nor politician, well, I take that back, I met Hoving, and he's always going to be a star in my book!!

My ONE experience with celebrity occurred when some in our church ladies group took a trip to Washington, D.C. When getting off the subway from the cafeteria under the....is it the House? I spotted Ted Kennedy (this was light years ago: when Jimmy Carter was President).

He was surprisingly handsome in person and smiled kindly and I began to wave my arms and raised my voice to attract the other ladies' attention, and I'm sorry to say, hollered out for the entire Western World to absorb: "Look! Look!! The President's Brother!!"

Kennedy laughed and went on, but they all missed him, looking for Billy Carter.

Celebrities are not my strong suit.

Ginny

Me that is....But first, let it be known that my stories cannot top Maida's. Not anywhere near.

Many years ago my Mother was in a wheel chair, and very elderly, and I heard of this bus trip to Washington, D.C. for handicapped people in wheelchairs, and thought it would be an interesting trip for both of us. The only requirement was that the person in the wheelchair have a pusher. That was me.

Well, imagine my surprise when the bus drove right into the White House grounds, and everyone had a special tour. Then we ate in the Senate Dining Room, and while waiting for the bus to pick us up we were near the elevators, and occassionaly we could see someone famous getting off the elevators.

At one point the elevator door opened, and out walked Ted Kennedy. Instead of just smiling, and going on his way, like the other people did....He strode right over to the group in the wheelchairs, asked them how they were, and shook each person's hand. He was so kind and sensitive to the needs of others. I was impressed.

I wonder if the stark difference between Nancy and Barbara is what got Nancy in trouble. Everybody loved Barbara....She was us. A little overweight, and very human. Nancy looked as if all she ate was celery, and didn't seem to care much about her stepson Michael's son, who was Ronnie's grandson. For shame!! Quite a contrast between Nancy and Barbara!!

As far as Geraldine Ferraro goes....I thought she was very bright, and would make a good Vice President, but most people weren't ready for a woman just one step away from the Presidency. And her husband had some kind of shady dealings that had to be explained away.

Unlike all of you.....I am an admirer of Hillary Clinton, and hope that she does become a Senator from New York.

I think I told you earlier that I am a news junkie, and one year .... the year of George McGovern.... I was a delegate to the Democratic National Convention. I was a photographer then, and all I did on the floor of the convention in Miami, when I could, was to take photos of the newspeople. I'll have to check the scrapbook, and see if I captured L.S. I think I did. I know I have Mike Wallace, Ed Bradley, Harry Reasoner, and others. They were all very cooperative about posing, as was Marlo Thomas, another delegate.

Sorry to have taken up so much space.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Oh, I loved all those stories! Thank you so much for sharing them! Meeting celebrities - you are all too much!

Please, scan all those pictures - MAIDA AND FRAN - and send them to Larry to put in our heading! What fun!

Back later for more!

We are a microcosm on Seniornet of opinions on politicians, economics, and the like and have often wondered why the pollsters of America have never discovered us!

I just love these stories!

And I LOVE that script, Miss Ella, going to put it in one of our headings here!

Ginny

We mustn't ignore Maureen altogether - the little I've seen of her I truly liked. Do you think we have seen the last of her in public life?

Didn't we love the picture LS drew of the two of them romping around on a water bed in a motel near Camp David where LS had gone to interview MR? LS has this to add:

Maureen, an adviser to her father's campaign on women's issues, was a spirited interview, sassy and therefore great theater. She wouldn't take any guff from me, simply refusing to follow a line of questioning she didn't like.

LS further states:

Maureen, an avowed and dedicated feminist, was living in the white House, and while there is little evidence she was able to change her father's mind any more than anyone else had been able to change it, she had more success with Nancy. In time the onetime Dragon Lady and her stepdaughter would become kindred spirits.

LS was a very spirited woman herself - I laughed out loud when she was describing her problems with Larry Speakes at a White House Press Conference and she said: "I could have slapped him."

Did anyone else get bored with all the Iran-Contra business?

Checking out a few pages I had marked for comment in this chapter was one taping LS made with Patrick Buchanan - is he still in the running for the presidency? Do you think he stands a chance?

Here is Buchanan answering a question on his view of women:

I don't think they're endowed by human nature with the singleness of drive, the singleness of purpose, the fierce ambition to succeed, to succeed above anything in the competitive world of Western capitalizm along with men. And for women there is an honorable and honored exit from the marketplace. There is a way you can drop out and become wife, mother, build a family as it were.

If I were his mother, I would have slapped him!

Good old Pat is still very much in the running - too bad he's not running out of the country. The man is certifiably scary - what a throwback he would be if elected. Never fear, he won't be!!

Patti Davis has an article in the current issue of More Magazine - a new one devoted to the woman over 40 - but from what I've seen this woman over 40 is about 41, drop dead gorgeous, talented, creative, perfectly coiffed and dressed - oh, and rich. P. Davis (not the woman I described) is now 47!! I remember her as being difficult.

No L.S. in the scrapbook. I think I saw the photo of the group from CBS, and my mind told me I had one just like it. Hardly!!!

From that convention I do have Bella Abzug, Germaine Greer, Ralph Abernathy, Colonel Sanders, Jesse Jackson, Birch Bayer, Muriel Humprey, and the very attractive Gloria Steinham. She is the only one there that I thought was rude. I started to speak to her, and she not only ignored me, but whirled right around so she didn't have to face me. I was not a happy person. And the nicest person was Shirley Chisholm. Do you remember her? She was a black cogresswoman trying to run from New York.

As you can see I am very interested in politics.....still. And I am particularly interested in how this drug thing with George Bush is going to work out. I think his refusing to speak about it is admirable, and I am glad he is standing up to the press. He has already said that when he was young he was foolish, and that was then, and now is now. I hope he sticks to his guns.

Of course I probably won't support him, but that would have to do with his position on issues, not that he refused to cooperate with the press. How do you people feel about that?

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

My friend and I visited the candidates rooms hoping to pick up some free eats, and make them think they had a chance of receiving our votes. That wasn't very ethical because actually we were already committed to George McGovern.

I, too, appreciate George W.'s stand on the drug issue. It's high time someone took the collective press down a peg or two!!

Fran and Maida, I agree completely with your statements about George W. Bush. I see he has now said there has been nothing since he was 28 and I feel he is right to refuse to elaborate further. Where is the relevance of what he did when he was young. Personally I don't think someone with no life experiences and mistakes would make a very good president. It is a shame we now seem to think the person serving us has to be more than human, because none of us are and we all probably have some things in our past we would not care to talk about. However, with regard to Bush I believe the press will continue to hound him until the election. Sad situation.

Larry

Fran - Colonel Sanders??? Mercy! I do recognize all the other names you mentioned - even Shirley Chisholm.

Oh, methinks the press will be after them all in time! Bush is just a taste of it as he seems to be out in front - money-wise at any rate. It's early in the game, just wait.

The press does go overboard, but rather that than a restricted press - what can we do about them - they need fodder for the mill!

Were all of you surprised at the way in which LS talked about flirting? It mildly shocked me - I just had not thought about adults speaking in those terms. Remember early in the book she had gone to a psychologist over being involved with sharing a man with another woman? And he pointed out ways in which she flirted? Later, she was afraid she was losing the ability to "flirt" as she calls it?

What do you make of this?

I think there are just some women who are really good at flirting, without it really meaning anything in particular. It is sort of a friendly "I find you interesting" type of conversation. She was, and is, attractive, and it is a certain way of approaching people. I guess it didn't bother me at all. There are some women I know who are good at flirting with men, without making them uneasy, and they also know how to be best friends with women.

I guess I am defending her because I used to be like that, but now with my advancing years.....not quite!!!

See you on Monday.....Weekending in Washington, D.C. of all places. One of our California kids has been there this week, and this is our chance to visit. I'll let you know if I see anyone you would be interested in.

Perhaps if we stayed at the Hays Adams, the Mayflower, or the Willard hotels, but not the Capitol Hilton.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Fran, Ella---I find Leslie Stahl's description of herself as a flirt to be a surface level awareness of how she approached the world. She may not have realized how average she was in this, how socialized women were at that time (and to some extend still are) to be deferential, to be seen as "happy" ("smile, dear" said to women), to show an interest when "he's" talking, to not interrupt, to hold back one's own opinions, to be coy instead of authentic, to put one's needs second to men's, to be always prepared to meet "the one" (make-up, hair, body preparations). The stereotype of a flirt---batting the eyelashes, looking up adorably into his eyes, etc., etc., is just the volume knob turned up one notch from the normal, everyday position of all women then---a position of tuning into the needs of those in power--over your lives. In the studies of abuse of women, by the way, it is pointed out that the need to tune into the whims, needs of men was a life-saving technique. Similar behavior would be found in all powerful-powerless relationships, i.e., the relationship of slaves to their owners. One of my all time pet peeves is to hear someone say (to me or to others), "Why the long face? Smile, honey." I'm sure Leslie Stahl heard mixed messages her whole career--told not to smile so she'd appear to be a serious professional, but probably was reinforced to be pleasant, non-confrontational, a "real" woman off-camera.

My lasting disappointment with the book is her passing reference to the ten years of being "angry." She said exactly the same thing in her Lifetime interview, not really an interview but an overly produced repetition of the book. "I was angry for ten years." And that's all we know. When she began to work for 60 Minutes, and could create her own pieces and work independently, "I stopped being angry." I yearn to read the books of women who feel safe enough to write of the whole life lived, anger and all.

Fran - think there are just some women who are really good at flirting, without it really meaning anything in particular. It is sort of a friendly "I find you interesting" type of conversation.

When we were young and unmarried, we "flirted." Had fun doing it - my sister, who was a natural blonde (gorgeous hair! which just naturally seemed to attract the men)was so good at it that she embarrased me constantly. She would laugh and say I was jealous, which in some ways might have been true. However, I don't think of it as adult behavior - and you think that the men respond and are not uneasy? Must you be attractive in order to flirt? I'm out of the picture here altogether and certainly running around with the wrong crowd!!!

readerdoc - "The stereotype of a flirt---batting the eyelashes, looking up adorably into his eyes, etc., etc., is just the volume knob turned up one notch from the normal, everyday position of all women then---a position of tuning into the needs of those in power--over your lives.

Your description of a "flirt" more closely resembles mine. We used to laugh about it - how it did attract the men - like honey to the bee. They loved it. Without getting into a big discussion here of male/female relationships, I do believe a man loves submissive, flirtatious, adoring women, but certainly does not respect one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you so much for your comments! I am so enjoying this discussion! However, before we leave and get into the Bush chapter, I am just dying to find out all of your opinions of Madeline Albright. We discussed the book SEASONS OF HER LIFE sometime ago.

Is she doing a good job?

Would you like her for a friend?

Is she holding her own in the men's world of diplomacy?

Ann - You were right! I was cheating in bringing up M. Albright as, of course, she isn't mentioned in this book. Wish she were though, I'd love to know what LS thinks of her.

Maida - Have you tooled around Washington in a limo with Albright by any chance?

Fran - We are waiting to see what gossip you picked in Washington this weekend - do tell!

readerdoc - What did you think of the chapter about Bush? Many questions come to my mind - how about you? Did you like Bush?

Larry - Did you agree with LS in her views of Bush and his administration? His handling of the many crisis that came up during his term in office?

Best comment made by LS: "I'm a feminist, and for me there's nothing more feminist than being true to yourself."

I had nice e-mail from Jeanne Rinker with an attached picture of herself with Barbara Bush. I have put it up on the server so you all can see it. Just click on the following:

Jeanie Rinker with Barbara Bush

Jeanne please tell us about the event and is the gentleman in the picture your husband? Thanks for sharing the picture with us.

Larry

I liked Bush as much as anyone can like a politician. I am so tired of them continually dodging the questions put to them by reporters. Like his son refusing to answer to the drug use question. And after looking at the list of people who worked for Ford, Reagan and Bush, I come to the conclusion that they just switch hats and go on running the government. Look at our Ohio governor Taft who just switched hats with our previous govenor. One is now a senator from Ohio and the other is the govenor but they are both still there running our state and our federal government. Seems to me that the same thing was going on in the Bush presidency.

Back to the Bushes, she was a true natural lady and he was certainly likeable. But, did he lie about the Iran-Contra connection? About the hostage situation and arms agreements? I think being in the government is a dicey proposition in any case. You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Once again, from Mr Lincoln, you can please part of the people all of the time, and all of the people part of the time but not all of the people all of the time. It does seem that things are happening so fast here that we can't keep up.

Back to LS and when she was on the show where they asked her to decide which man to kill on the hostage plane or just what to do. One has no time in some situations to even give the problem enough thought. Therefore, many knee-jerk responses happen. I felt that the Gulf War crisis was one of those. Many people thought that it was just a show of our power and checking out our weapons. This may be a wrong opinion to the Gulf War but it was a popular one among Generation X'ers(GenX). They were very cynical about the whole process.

But, before that Bush had to deal with Panama and the Tiananmen Square protest and killing of the student protesters that happened when Gorbachev was there. There is just so much to deal with as the leader of this country. And, Bush's approach was to be prudent and cautious. He was not saying anything! To me, that was a mistake. There certainly couldn't have been anything wrong with commenting on these incidents.

Jeanne - Thank you so much for sharing that lovely picture!!

What was the occasion that you were visiting the White House? It is in the White House isn't it?

Both ladies look so beautiful!

Pat - Are you tuning in? Did you like Bush at all? I remember your sentiments about Reagan and there are many who agree with you.

Quoting from LS, Scotty Reston, retired New York Times columnist who had covered 10 presidents had this to say when asked his views:

Who was the smartest? Carter. Jimmy Carter was very smart and not a very good president, so that intelligence is not necessarily the test. The worst? Reagan. The worst but the nicest. The most delightful fraud we've ever had. The best? Ike. He knew it was so much easier to get into wars than to get out of them"

Ann Do your friends still feel this way? "Therefore, many knee-jerk responses happen. I felt that the Gulf War crisis was one of those. Many people thought that it was just a show of our power and checking out our weapons."

If she just wanted to show the changes wrought in the presidency by TV, she certainly accomplished that but also, she showed the many changes that TV accomplished in this country.

Ella,I don't think anyone around here has changed their minds on anything in the last 40 years. This is referred to as inflexibility. Once they decide on something, they can't seem to even consider a change of mind or heart.

But, if Germany did the same thing in the war in Spain in the 30's, why couldn't we have done it in the Gulf War? Do you remember that we watched the whole thing on TV(if we wanted to)? It was like going to the movies to some.

I don't know what Bush did for this country but show up where and when he was supposed to. I think the presidency is run by a committee of the same-o same-o, whichever party is in power.

I'd vote for Barbara in a minute... But George was a party yes man and his thoughts were whatever was popular at the time.. A rather luke-warm person... Besides he didn't like broccoli.

Changed minds in 50 years... I think I changed mine about the Clintons

As I mentioned George and I spent the weekend in Washington, and the closest I came to anyone or anything famous was that we stayed on the concierge floor next door to the Congressional Suite. As far as I know nobody was staying in it.

Madeline Albright....I like her, and I think she is holding her own in diplomatic circles. I really don't like all of her decisions, but she is probably just reflecting the President's policies.

About Bush....the father, that is....He was a very nice affable guy with a great wife, but certainly not a person who could lead us to a peaceful world, which interests me very much as I get older. The one thing I can never forget is when that poor man threw up at a state dinner in Japan. He must have a good character to ever be able to show his face again. For heavens sake....what could be more embarrassing and humiliating??? Nothing that I can think of right now.

George has just about changed my mind the more he speaks about how bad it is that George W. Bush is not answering the question about drug use as a young man. His point is that in Texas right now young men are being jailed for possessing very very little mariajuana, much less cocaine.

Unfortunately I had to take the book back to the library today so I can no longer reference it, which is a big help to me.

I loved the photo of Jeanie and Barbara Bush!! What a lovely treasure.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Thank you, Larry, for posting the photograph of me, my husband Earl and Barbara Bush. It was taken, not in the White House, but at a lovely historic residence (maintained by the state historical society) in Concord, NH during the primary. We had spent time with George and Barbara before but an official photographer was present at this particular reception and all attending got pictures taken with either Mr. or Mrs. Behind us is Judd Gregg the then governor of NH and who is now one of our US Senators. Judd and his family are old friends of ours - my dad was on Judd's dad's military staff when Hugh Gregg was the NH governor in the mid 1950's.

The picture is significant for me not because B. Bush is in it but because I was in horrific pain with, at the time, undiagnosed throat cancer. Some five months later I was found to be in advanced and terminal stage IV, given less than a five percent chance of surviving more than a month. By then I was at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston and, having absolutely nothing to lose, agreed to participate in a risky experimental research project involving new drug (chemo) therapies designed, so the docs explained, to come as close to killing me as possible. By the second month of this God-awful treatment I wished I was dead but somehow survived. Years later I found the pic and had it framed because it reminds me of my life before cancer - and because it's an interesting conversation piece.

Ella,After reading LS story of Bush's decision making policies with his friends throughout the world before the Gulf war, I had to change my opinion of what went on. I would now say that it was not a knee jerk response but a planned response with Bush making sure that he had the backing of the other main countries. I stand corrected!

I think he lost the '92 election because of Ross Perot's candidacy. Voting for Perot meant less votes for Bush and the persons who did vote for Perot probably would have voted for Bush if they no other choice. I can be wrong, don't forget. This is just my personal opinion. Right now, we have the same thing going on with pre-elevtion straw polls. My vote is going to be for Jesse!! As he said, you can write in his name.

Maida, what a great story about your recovery from cancer. You are a miracle patient. And the picture is just great! You look wonderful and not like you are in pain. Amazing!

Ann - Hello Ann! If you were sitting listening to inflexible people during the Gulf War, I was in emotional turmoil as my daughter was over there at the time as chief nurse in a mobile hospital tent caring for wounded POW's and having a scary time of it with Scuds coming over! I was petrified! All turned out well - it was a great adventure for her. However, our friends and neighbors all thought the war was being fought over oil and not one soldier's life was worth it!

It was a terrific show for the whole country - a war being televised in our living rooms! Our admiration for Dick Cheney (what is he doing now, anyone know), Powell and Stormin' Norman knew no bounds, a great team.

LS has nothing but praise for Bush during this whole war in the Gulf; he worked tirelessly to keep the coalition of nations together.

Pat - LS gives many instances where Bush was a "yes" man or a "silent" man; i.e. he made no comment during the Tiananmen Square protestors; and very unemotionally (LS said he whined) he stated he was very pleased when the Berlin Wall came down. In the understatement of the times, he said "I'm not an emotional guy" - this when all of America was watching breathlessly as the wall was torn down - actually I was in tears - joy, happiness, whatever. The end of the Cold War and Bush is just pleased! Come on! Wish Barbara would have pinched him a time or two.

Fran - About George Jr. - wonder what his father is advising him to do? If he states that he took cocaine or smoked marijuana while young, would not that be a message to the young people that it's O.K. you can sew your wild oats, do illegal drugs now and still grow up to be a governor and possibly a president? Don't know what I would advise him to do.

Even though your book is back at the Library, Fran, would still like your comments on how television has changed the presidency, the campaigns for higher offices in the land, cable TV, etc. What do you watch?

Maida - What a lovely picture of you and your husband with Barbara. And a wonderful, yes, I can say that, it's an inspiring story of your episode with cancer! Is this drug now available? It must have been a terrifying time for you and your family. We are all so happy it turned out so well.

Jeanne Maida - or is it Maida Jeanne - did you know the Bush family before he was vice-president? As the CIA director, U.N. ambassador! When is he going to write his memoirs? What is your opinion of President Bush? We all admire Barbara - THE WHOLE COUNTRY LOVED HER! - but what of her husband? Were those years difficult for his family?

I smiled when I saw the picture because LS said Barbara wore her pearls for the same reason I wear turlenecks - to hide our scrawny necks! What to do about this neck that looks exactly like a turkey gobblers?

Thanks so much for all your comments!

But we are not quite finished yet with our discussion! What is your opinion on how TV has affected the presidency? News broadcasts? Do you think there is too much, too little campaigning on the part of those running for the presidency? Should we have debates? Are we losing the good guys because they do not come across as Mr. Charm? What qualities do you want in your president? Are there any candidates who fit that bill at the present? Has cable TV affected the nation for good or evil?

Did you like Lesley Stahl's book? Rate it on a scale of 1-10, ten being the best. Did she cover the presidents fairly? (Incidentally, there is an interesting story on President Ford and Nixon in last week's TIME magazine)

Maida, you are indeed a fortunate person but it sounds like you went through terrible times. I am sure you appreciate each day of your life now as going through something like that causes us to appreciate what we almost didn't have.

I think that George Bush was not a bad President at all. He had so much background with world leaders from the UN, CIA, and being Vice-President that he knew who to contact and how to do it. That must have been a very complicated thing to hold together. With regard to China, Bush obviously knew that there wasn't anything the US could do or wanted to do.

I would rate this book as a 9 as I enjoyed reading every chapter. LS brings us insight from a unique perspective. I just show a brief speech on C-Span that Helen Thomas gave and she has a new book out covering her life in the White House. She has been there close to 40 years.

Larry

Oh, - readerdoc - I meant to make a comment on the anger than LS talked about in the book. As I remember it, somewhere she said that circumstances of life often produced depression or anger; in her case, it was anger which I thought, came from the cutbacks in personnel at CBS and undoubtedly she was overworked and feeling guilt at not spending enough time with her daughter (who sounds like a "cool" young lady to me). Too, too much, don't you think?

And then she took on that job with Kerault at night - I think it was called AMERICA TONIGHT - did anyone ever see it? Where was I? I might not have stayed up very often, but wish I had seen it at least a few times!

And I wondered at LS's failure to observe depression in her husband for so long - as she did!!!! The guy wanted to sleep all day and do nothing, for heavens sake! - but due to Mike Wallace particularly, she did get help for him. Isn't it wonderful that we can talk openly and freely about depression these days? It used to be so shameful a topic in a family - we owe that partly to Rossalyn Carter. Two of my sisters have had bouts with that terrible problem. I know others also, as I'm sure most of you have.

I liked LS's husband's phrase "AND SUDDENLY THERE WAS GOD! - I would imagine,Maida you might have felt that way, perhaps? Or your family?

Sometimes it's difficult to talk about such emotional subjects - after having lived as many years as we have, we all have experienced tragedies, deaths, illnesses - some curable, some not. It's difficult for me - and yet, I can cry anymore at the weirdest things - the flag coming down, the statue of liberty, the Berlin Wall - I'm what Bush was not - an emotional person!

Guess I'd rate Lesley's book either an eight or a nine. I think that she did a good job telling her story but left too many unanswered questions - why the relationship with Dolly, the anger, not noticing her husband's despair - and most surprising to those of us who knew her way back when, why no mention AT ALL of her childhood/college years. I think that the woman I've become had good solid roots in my uprbringing but she states that she was born at the age of 30. This puzzles me.

George Bush's lack of emotionalism seems homey and familiar to me, for I was raised in good old unemotional New England - stoicism, stiff upper lip - Tears and "carrying on" of any sort were much frowned upon in my immediate family and to this day few of us would dream of spontaneous hugging. Not proud of this - it's just the way it is. I supposed that's why I appreciate young George's attitude toward the press about possible drug use when younger - it's no one's business. Who among us didn't do some mighty stupid things when we were young and foolish? I certainly did but I believe that experience is the greatest teacher - and I wouldn't dare to judge another unless my life was 100% perfect - completely beyond scrutiny - but, if that were the case, what a bore I'd be!!

Thanks for all your kind words about the cancer - it was character building if nothing else, and, yes, I do appreciate every day. The experience taught me how to fight back but, I have to admit that as a result I have far less patience with whiners, complainers, criticizers - people who won't help themselves drive me right over the edge.

No, we didn't know the Bush family before his first election run - but guess we felt as though we did as they summered in Maine and many of our political friends had known them for years.

I would rate the book an 8. I enjoyed it enormously, but like Maida, I too felt cheated that she left out any information about her childhood, and started at age 30. Perhaps it was because the book is called "Reporting Live", and that is when she started that.

Maida...You are one brave woman. What a horrendous thing to go through, and how beautiful you look as you are in pain. When I am in pain, I look as if I am dying. I am not that good New England stock that you are. We are all glad you went for that experimental treatment, and that you are with us today!!

I think that television has changed the way we view the candidates because depending upon how much money they have available the commercials just go on and on. If only some day they could really do something about the lobbying and financial aid received from special interests. There is no way that any officers of the United States is going to be able to stand up for what he or she truly believes if they are in debt to special interests. It has become very scary.

I always used to watch both the Republican and Democratic conventions gavel to gavel, and was very interested in all of the side interviews by the media. Then when I attended the McGovern convention as a delegate it was completely different. I was in shock at how little I knew and how little I heard because we were on the convention floor, and I was not watching the television news commentators. Someone said that watching it on television was like looking in a bakery store window, and seeing all the varieties of cakes and breads, while being there was like being in the middle of a custard pie. You couldn't see the whole picture.

Thanks Ella and everyone for a great discussion. I've loved and appreciated everyone's comments.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Maida---regarding LS's younger days before 30, she stated in the Lifetime program that she has no memory whatsoever of high school, just blank, she said, mysteriously. I think she said, "I suppose that means something." As autobiographies go, this one is closer to a rating of 5, from my perspective. What she wrote is fine; what she left out is telling.

Referring to Maida's description of personality traits in New Englanders, Tom Brokaw in his best-selling book says this in his chapter on President Bush: "For a man who spent so much of his life in the public arena, President Bush was curiously inarticulate about those defining moments (drifting in the ocean after his plane was shot down)." And later: "By his own admission George Bush is not a reflective man. It may have to do with his mother's constant counsel not to draw attention to yourself."

New Englanders do have the reputation of being cold and difficult to know, one wonders how Bush ever got elected to any position.

Horning in as one who has not read the book (MAIDA how marvelous you look and are!!) I would say that some of the reasons George Bush got elected were his outstanding qualifications, his obvious goodness, his great taste in wives, and the general feeling he gives you of competence. Looked all over for a Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Bush bumper sticker, but couldn't find one. The strong silent quiet type is not anathema to me. Lots of people are capable and not glib. I like Bush. I love that glider stuff he's doing, love the man, would, in fact, if presented with a slate of Nixon, Ford, Regan, Carter, Clinton and Bush, vote for him again in a skinny minute!

Sorry, but I admire the man.

Ginny

Thanks GINNY - for that opinion!

What do you think of the son? What should he do about the drug question?

Many of the presidential candidates have web pages - a first, isn't it, in campaigns?

Here is George Bush:

George W. Bush for President

In reading the comments about New Englanders I recall my grandmother's favorite expression - I heard it DAILY! FOOLS' NAMES AND FOOLS' FACES ALWAYS APPEAR IN PUBLIC PLACES. She would have had a royal fit if she knew I had married a politician - and a Republican at that. She was a fierce and loyal Democrat and a true blue Yankee.

Love that one, Maida! When I think of all the presidents we've had from New England who never listened to their grandmothers!!

This web site is very interesting - The National Museum of American History, featuring photographs of the Nixon years - and, appearing in the very first photo, the subject of the last few weeks - LESLEY STAHL! A much younger Stahl.

National Musem of American History

Note on the one of Jeb MaGruder, the photographer Maroon, says he arrived at the White House right after the Watergate break-in and jokingly said "You guys will do anything for a little publicity."

I'm not giving the book quite as high a rating as some of you for several reasons. It was tedious to read in parts of all the traveling and places she was in and, furthermore, although this was her "take" on the years she was engaged as a reporter, and the book's title "REPORTING LIVE" certainly tells the reader of her intent, I think she went halfway toward a memoir or a bio in telling us about her personal life.

It should be one way or the other, I feel. Either a straight autobiography or strictly the life of a reporter. I'm giving the book a 6. Our library system, a huge one including probably about 16-18 branches, only bought one copy of this book. I don't know how libraries decide how many copies to buy - they have some system of knowing supply/demand, but that is an indication to me that LS's book has not been widely received.

Do any of you know how libraries make such decisions?

Ella, I believe that they look at the best seller list in Publishers' Weekly and choose their books that way. The term "Best sellers" refers to the books ordered by bookstores, not by readers. I get the impression that they established a "wait and see" attitude with this one.

I liked the book and actually enjoyed her referrals to her family which put some perspective on that time in her life. This was not an autobiography as it started when she was 30 and ended when she went to 60 Minutes which as you know, is a magazine show.

I do agree with her that TV news has changed from hard news to personalities. As I mentioned, in the beginning of this discussion, I think most news reporting has become like watching Entertainment Tonight. The only hard news seems to be the local programs and maybe, Dan Rather.

While you were reading this book, were you able to place where you were in the dates mentioned? Kind of a personal thing with me. But an interesting exercise. Not only where were you but what were you doing and how did you feel? Can you remember? She must have a whole lot of note books filled with her days, mustn't she? Or is her memory better than mine? Probably the latter.

About the library, Miss Ella, I had to go to another system to get my book as you took the only one our system owned. Tsk, tsk, tsk! Anyway, the other system is smaller and they had only one copy also.Are we ready to do another one yet? Or just joining in the discussions already there?

Ella and Ann, As far as I know that was the first book written by LS and therefore she had no prior selling history. It is also a public affairs type book without the scandal elements you get in a lot of the books in the last few years that have sold reasonably well.

I think our library system also had only one or two copies, but know that after the initial period of circulation they weed excess copies out of the system to save shelf life and just have copies in one or two branches. Am sure computers have made it much easier for the libraries to manage their collection. Last year when I went to the library in the area where I grew up I really enjoyed walking the shelves as I don't think they had ever thrown away a fiction book. You could look at an author's whole series of book, including the Erle Stanley Gardner "Perry Mason" books that I read so faithfully as a teenager. You don't see those, and many others in our bigger libraries. The emphasis here seems to be on just current authors.

Larry

Ann - did you read and discuss Katharine Graham's autobio with us? I know Larry did - it was some time ago - but when I think back to that book and this one, there is just no way I could give LS's book a 9. Of course, Graham probably had the whole staff of the Washington Post helping her write the darn thing, but it did win a Pulitizer Prize and was just one of the best in that category I've ever read.

Larry, I do remember fondly going to our small town library growing up and seeing every book an author ever wrote on the shelves. That day is gone, but a better one has taken its place I believe with the advent of the Main Library system with all its branches and computers to reserve anything you could possibly want.

I've said this so many times - so why do I keep repeating it? - perhaps trying to get someone to agree with me? Videos and audios do not belong in libraries!! They are not books and I see patrons coming in and out with armloads of movies, not a book is to be seen!

Ann - do you want to partner up with another one? How about We Band of Angels that was mentioned above? Maida's read it and hopefully could contribute to our conversation. I just picked up a copy in our Library (which has several copies available) and am also buying a copy (have it ordered from B&N online), so you could use that one. I bought it for my daughter but she won't know you've read it or care, she'll eventually get it!

Anyone else interested? Larry - shall we post it in Coming Attractions and see if we get any interest?

Thank you so much for leading the discussion on the LS book. You did a great job, and made it wonderfully interesting for all of us. It is so much more interesting to read a book and have some friends to discuss it with.

I would like to discuss We Band of Angels very much. I have had it on reserve at our public library for well over a month, and I think everyone else has also. I'll check it out tonight, and see where I am on the list.

I would like to mention that I believe our library doesn't buy that many books. I think they rent them from McMillan, or some one else. They buy only lasting books, or what they might consider important books. They would never buy LS book. I guess they rent, and then when they give it back they don't pay very much.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

It's been some time since I read it, but We Band of Angels would be a great book to discuss.

Gee, Fran, that's something that I have never heard of a library doing. Renting their books. Sounds like a different idea!

Yes, Ella, I would be interested in reading We Band of Angels. I think we should be mentioning it soon as some of the readers in Good War talked about it, also. I am looking for it in Audio for my sister as she has ADD and has much difficulty reading a book for any length of time. But, she has listened to "The Good War" and really enjoyed it. Her father and her aunt were both in that war and she is a nurse. So, I will be looking hard in B&N for that book.

Obviously, I dissagree about the audios and videos being in the library. I think whatever it takes to help a person read, watch or listen to an author's offerings should be made available to the people who need to find a different way to read and enjoy books.

Thanks to all of you who help make a discussion interesting - and, I do love the fact that people feel comfortable in disagreeing - about anything at all.

The art of conversation lies in the ability to disagree without being disagreeable! So true!

I'll ask Larry to post the book WE BAND OF ANGELS in the Coming Attractions and shall we say September 10th? We do have that author/book discussion that most of us want to participate in, but we can read two - can't we?????

I read 2 chapters in the B.O.A. book last night and looked at the pictures - I will be crying all through this book! The pictures of those elderly ladies saluting their fallen comrades in a cemetery just did me in!

Ella, If I can get the book from the library I will see if I can get it read and participate in the discussion. Here is a link to the book on B&N that provides a good description: "We Band of Angels: The Untold Story of American Nurses Trapped on Bataan by the Japanese" by Elizabeth M. Norman. I will set up the new discussion shortly. Just put a hold on an available copy of the book at my library so should get it next week.

I guess I have to disagree with you also Ella, on recorded books. While my wife also loves to read books, for the last year and perhaps two years, she has listened to probably 200 books on tape while she plays games on her computer, sews, sometimes while working in the kitchen, or doing other things. Our library system has an extensive collection, including new best sellers, classics, and books of all types. We have also enjoyed listening to books on tape while making long car trips as it helps pass the time. I also know that a lot of people listen to these books on tape while waiting in slow traffic.

On the Katherine Graham book, if I recall the interview I saw Brian Lamb have with her, she said she had written the book on her own. She is a very intelligent and well educated lady.

I didn't know that Libraries could rent books either. Interesting concept.

Larry

Thanks Larry. This question relates to the book somewhat, but I must find out about the Phillipines before WWII. On the islands at that time, there were Chinese, Japanese and Phillipinos all living together . Can anybody tell me was it an independent entity? What role did the U.S. play there? Did it belong to us perchance as a territory as Puerto Rica is today?

Does anyone know the history of these islands?

Ella: Here is a link to Philippine History 101 ...

http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~flip/history.html

Drat! I never did get this book!! I've enjoyed lurking immensely and when this book finally lands in my hands, I may even read it. Thanks, Ella and Ann for a fine job.

Dear friends,

Last night I checked the library by way of the computer, and found that there are 10 holds on We Band of Angels, but I am now # 2 which is great. I am hoping to receive it by the 10th.

I just finished White Oleander that they are starting in the BookClub Online, and now have to hurry to finish the Castle book. Can't think of the exact name. Dodie Smith's book. That one is being read for our local little book club group.

I guess you do understand that the library rents the books to lend to us at no charge. Don't want you to misunderstand. Sometimes I am not clear about that.

I like Books on Tape, but am not in the car that much. Usually just short errands around town. But my daughter Susie has no time to read now, and a very long commute. Well over an hour on a good day.....so she loves them, and gets them from her library. She does have to pay something if they are new books on tape.

Speak to you soon.....Love, Fran

Since I have about an hour commute to work each way I would be lost without the books on tape from our library. The books that I particularly wish to savor I read and listen to the rest. I've been known to just make the school bell because I sat too long in my car waiting for a good mystery to conclude.

The couple of times I've listened to a tape on the car radio on a long trip I fell asleep at the wheel - almost - as my brain is accustomed to doing this while reading, and apparently, while listening to books! A bit dangerous, so I quit that! Similar to Fran, I just drive around town on errands for the most part.

Pat - thanks so much for that! I've read some of it - HEY - SHALL WE MAKE THAT REQUIRED READING FOR OUR NEXT BOOK - BAND OF ANGELS??? Hahaha! All the teachers out there - aren't you just dying to make up test questions from that history lesson?

Have you ever heard of the Sedition Act passed by Congress shortly after we defeated the Spaniards in the Phillipines and then paid $20 million for the islands? Hard to believe we ever passed an act like that?

Larry - thanks for putting up that page! I'm going to go have a look - am into the 6th chapter and you won't be able to put this book down once you start reading. Who among us think they could have such courage? I don't imagine we will ever know, hope we will never have to find out!