I will take the plunge and post the first message here! I have bought this book, read the first story, or is it an essay? I thought essay when I was reading it but the header above calls them "stories"?

Hello? Anyone home?!?

Is there a starting date? Or a guess?

I don't think a date has been set. It will give everyone a chance to get the book and read a bit of it.

I see this book listed in the "active file" now? Don't I?? You'd never know by the lack of activity here! Is ANYONE out there reading this book? Going to read it?

I've read the "foreward" and the first two essays. Waiting patiently for someone to discuss them with...

I think I get it. Everyone is afraid to post here for fear they’ll be tapped to Lead the Discussion!

I don’t want to lead but I’m not afraid. I just want a Discussion! If ANYONE out there is reading this book... tell you what; novel idea: Let’s just discuss it without a leader! Just please show yourself if you are reading this book or want to read this book.

Someone? Anyone??

Welllllllllll, why don’t I start. Maybe that will break the ice. Hahahaha!

I’ve read the first two essays and the Foreward. First, the Foreward: the author seems only to wish to convey her feelings about a singularly ugly picture which she has chosen as the cover for this book. She sees a depth of feeling—loneliness, despair even—in this old lady that, frankly, takes some imagination, if you ask me. I still don’t like the picture. Is the author making this up or did she have some real knowledge of this picture?

There.

Has anyone else read the Foreward?

Jeryn--Ok, you're on. I've had my copy forever, wondering when we'd start. I'm in the mood for this one, so why don't I read half or so tomorrow (uh, today, it's AM already) and I'll check back with some first impressions. We'll co-lead our 2 selves, then if others show up, we'll multi-lead, or whatever. See you soon....Betty

WHAT?? WHAT?? hahahaahaha A FIRST!! Co Lead?? Starting right up?? Talk about a discussion dying to be born!

READERDOC!! Does this MEAN you are joining our ranks of Discussion Leaders? YAY YAY YAY~

WEll done, our Jeryn!

Now Ladies, when do you want this to start??

YAY!

Ginny

Ginny. You lurker, you. (Can't sneak anything past YOU.) We were just minding our own business over here in the corner with our 2 little books. (You won't be so thrilled with me later today, once you check other messages.) Betty

Ah, Betty, I don't scare that easily, I saw your message, thought it was fabulous! hahahahahaa

Please, both of you, write Pat W and Larry and give them the schedule! Ask Pat W to start "spreading the news!!" Have a beginning date! Go for it!!

Ginny

Ginny... We're NOT leading! We're DISCUSSING!!! Unscheduled and unfettered!

Oh, Betty, you're going to read Half the Book??? In ONE day? I'll never keep up! I'll give it my best shot, but but but...

Well put, Jeryn. A round table here, with any number of chairs.

Well, I'm hooked. I read the first 6 short stories and can tell that no matter how short (one is 6 pages) or focused each separate story is, the simplicity is only the first level. Some rich thoughts on age---not old age or any specific age per se---just the road of age. The going forward that is happening or has happened.

I am enjoying how M.F.K. (Mary Frances Kennedy) Fisher writes. There is an old world feel to these stories. First story published in 1964, then the collection in 1983, so the writing is contemporary, not old. Ten of the fifteen stories were first published in The New Yorker, so her work is known. The foreward is so interesting that it almost stands as the first story, but it's the true telling of how she collected bits and pieces of information on age during her life in preparation for a book of the same subject, how she found and treasured an old portrait of Ursula von Ott in which she saw (mysteriously) the answers to her/our fascination with age/wisdom.

A FEW THOUGHTS ON FIRST 6 STORIES, FOLLOWED BY DISCUSSION OF ONLY THE FIRST STORY---

The first story, Moment of Wisdom, 6 pages long, is so different from what one might expect a story with this title to be. It is the unsuspected moment of quick tears--always unexpected--that she identifies as moments of wisdom. In the first paragraph she tells us she's not talking about the eyes filling with tears, which happens often, and on pg. 19, she tells us it is not the "helpless weeping and sobbing" after hearing Churchill's or Roosevelt's speeches. "But the slow, large tears that spill from the eye, flowing like unblown rain according to the laws of gravity and desolation--these are the real tears, I think. They are the ones that have been simmered, boiled, sieved, filtered past all anger and into the realm of acceptive serenity."

As a young girl, this happened to her at a moment of sharp, acute empathy for a tired, tiny, frail religious book salesman who came to her family's door, asking for her grandmother.

2nd story "Answer in the Affirmative" is about a woman's disgust with her 40 year old body, then a memory from childhood when something happened to make her feel beautiful and a revisiting at 40 of something from that memory.

Skip to 4th and 5th stories, two of my favorites. Maybe by now I've adjusted to the comfortable rhythm of Fisher's writing or something about these 2 moved me. Anyway, by this point, as I do in any collection of stories, I begin to accept that the reading is good, that one story here and there will really mean something to me. I am willing to keep reading to get to these gems. "The Unswept Emptiness" is a beautiful story. It reminded me of countless times in my own life when my neediness and inward pain momentarily kept me from looking up at someone else's similar condition. And when I did look up, the perspective of my own troubles changed.

5th story--"Another Love Story" I can't wait to discuss this one. I loved it. A newly divorced mother with 2 children move in with her elderly father. Things are good. The father dies. Most of the story takes place just after the funeral during a week long trip the mother and daughters take to a small coastal fishing village, where the daughters are taught to fish by a elderly drifter.

It occurs to me that a lot of these stories are coming of age stories, but not of the teenage brand. Mid life and beyond.

Oh, by the way, all those boxes of information on aging the author collected during her life? She threw them all away. And then wrote her stories.

Jeryn, what about discussing the foreward and first story? Anyway, here goes.

I loved reading about this painted leather portrait that she hung over her desk all those years. And of her commitment to writing about aging. My life has not been that singularly directed. I've been fortunate in a kind of renewing inspiration--but always for a slightly different direction each time. No life long vision. There have been physical things, though--books, actually--that served as explosions of inspiration (One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest and Unfinished Business) that took on unexplanable dearness to me, sustained me, even. A place in Colorado and one other in Florida have had that same long dearness/inspiration.

I really love the part about throwing away her boxes of notes. I wonder if she meant that the things she had learned had become a part of her. Or if she recognized that wisdom or age cannot be reduced to a collection of OTHERS' discoveries, that they must come from a more central place within her. I want to go back and read what she says on this.

The first very short story on slow fat tears that come unexpectedly... That her first episode happened as a young girl is surprising. She writes that those moments will happen only a few times in life. I take it that these tears are not the ONLY moments of WISDOM in life. Given the story of the frail salesman, maybe this is the first moment this young girl is truly able to "see." To see beyond one's own self interest (interest in self) to the needs of others. A first moment of selfless truth.

But...he picks the rose and then she cries. A frail, dusty old man refuses a drink of water, but notices beauty. Is it his dedication that she sees? Has he picked a rose for her grandmother? Maybe she doesn't know what it is about that moment that captures her. How then is that wisdom? I could use some help here. Must we see what she sees?

So, Jeryn, think we can find a few others to join in? Have some ideas on how many/few stories to roughly plan on? I feel ready to go at a steady pace to get to stories 4,5,6. Those 3 will help us feel committed to the whole book.

Betty, may I call you Betty? You have written your feelings for these "stories" so beautifully, I am tempted to junk what I had prepared offline! Seriously, let's just let things happen here...I'm not LEADING this discussion. I'll not plan a schedule. I don't have time to read ahead--in fact, I'm already behind! Let's just share our reactions, compare notes, move on and if anyone wishes to join in, WELCOME!!! How's that sound?

And now here are my thoughts on the first three episodes-stories-what ARE these things?!?

I don’t believe they are stories nor essays either, after all. They are more in the nature of memoirs. She is relating her own life experiences. The first three, at least, are of brief but significant encounters she has had with old people, with death, even.

“Moment of Wisdom” relates a brief encounter with an old man she found so pathetic, even as a young girl, that unbidden, surprise tears welled from her eyes. I found this to be a testament to her sympathetic heart and a moment with which I could empathize. Tears spring to ones’ eyes unexpectedly at the strangest things! However, that an old man, pathetic but proud, should stimulate such a reaction is no great surprise except that it was a moment of truth for a 12-year old.

I did not find much of interest in “Answer in the Affirmative”. I think most of us women, when much younger, have suffered the admiration or attention, of some much older man to whom we really didn’t want a closer relationship! I suppose, when one is older and feeling frumpy, such a memory could raise the spirit?! Is that what this is about?

“The Weather Within" is a longer narrative of an unexpected, inconvenient encounter with death, the death of a stranger. I felt such concern for the effect it all might have on those two little girls! And failed completely to understand her ending. Why would the deceased lady’s sister have any feeling other than gratitude for her help?

Betty, I am not quite as enthralled with this woman's writing as you are. Some of her reactions seem inappropriate... specifically, the last three paragraphs in "The Weather Within". Is she revealing, unwittingly, some innate fear of death? I would have thought she would take pains to sympathize and explain to her two young daughters, rather than the impatience shown. And I did not at all understand why she thought Miss Pettigrew, the deceased woman's sister, would hate her for being one of the last off the ship? Help me here!

Betty... I will keep up with you as best I can. My speed is about one chapter per day, right now. Will try to speed that up next week. Today and tomorrow, gotta babysit! Hey! It only takes two to have a discussion! Table IS round, though...

Jeryn -- Hey, this looks strangely like a discussion. You talk, then I talk, then you again....

I agree on the first 3 stories/memoir pieces---except maybe as groundwork for a thread of premise on wisdom which we may discover as we go along.

Ah, yes, the old "he didn't mean you any harm" myth of old man and young girl. "Affirmative" story. In a generous mood the day I read it, I was able to attribute her almost total denial of the harmful nature of this episode to the uninformed, unenlightened time this must have taken place--and possibly even when she was 40. How old is this writer? I should find out. (My understanding comes from remembering my own non-person adult phase in my 20's when I was pitifully uninformed.)

I'm anxious to go on to pieces 4,5,6. Since this is such a loose discussion, anyone who comes in ANY TIME--please feel free to make comments on the foreward and on the first 3 pieces, even if we are somewhere else in the book. Since I have not read much further, who knows, we may often refer back to tone or subject or connections to the first of the book. It will, of course, be interesting to see how these 15 pieces hang together on the subject of age.

Piece 4. "The Unswept Emptiness" There seems plenty here to linger over a while. A tone of longing through this piece. WWII must have just ended. Matey's husband has been gone years and is at present dealing with "red tape" of a discharge, maybe somewhere overseas. The familiar wax man with his sample case of floor and furniture waxes comes up the dusty road toward her house and at first Matey joins her very young daughter and the barking dogs in their excitment in having a visitor. Matey keeps reminding herself that it has actually been five years since the wax man has come, even though she still thinks of him as the annual salesman.

In a way we've seen in other stories, the woman doesn't accurately see the details of who is in front of her, at first. She is caught up in missing her husband, the embarrassment of "unswept" floors, smudges on furniture and unwashed baby hair, and, in a main line of the story, her attempts to jog her memory for the wax man's last name. A memory game she plays each time she has a visit from the wax man--and used to have such fun playing.

The longing for continuity, for loyalty and tradition is emphasized. This seems related to what's necessary to withstand the war years--a need for routine and familiarity. There is a shock, then, when she finally "sees" the deterioration of the wax man, how old and frail, how changed. Changed more than just physically by the war. Something about the sight of the mountain brings him to tears and then Matey sees him for how changed he is.

This story feels to me like a statement on the effect a war such as WWII has on the movement of life. In some ways, Matey's life is on hold, as if nothing is moving forward until her husband returns. She even thinks of the wax man as someone who comes every year, even though it has been five years. Mr. Bee, the wax man--I wonder if he fought in the war, thus his 5 year absence. Something happened to him.

At first it was strange to me that neither Mr. Bee nor Matey spoke to each other in any real way. Then I saw that they repeated the old familiar phrases of salesperson and buyer as if five years had not passed, took pleasure in the old words, roles. Pleasure in the humor of Matey's secret struggle to remember the funny name and Mr. Bee's pleasure (maybe need, not pleasure) in acting as if it was easy to bend his body down to the old salesman's one-knee-on-floor sales stance.

Like other stories, the woman's internal struggles were lightened when she was able to really see the humanity, sometimes pain in the "other." I agree with the author if she is trying highlight this ever so universal habit in us of being so busy worrying about how we are seen that we rarely look up to see. Is she relating this to aging, to moments of wisdom? The sudden awareness of "serene acceptance," as she writes in the first piece? She does speak of those tears as cleansing and as aids to seeing clearly.

I think it's wonderful that she doesn't tell us everything. Doesn't say more about the frail bible salesman picking the rose, or about the 5 year absence of the wax man who is moved by the sight of the mountain.

More but less troubling instances in this piece show this woman is less than enlightened. Don't know why it doesn't bother me more. An unusual reaction from me.

Betty

Betty! You are so good at this!! I read "The Unswept Emptiness" apparently a bit hurriedly. I didn't find the depth of meaning that you did--until I read YOUR notes above! Thank you! Now this one qualifies as a story, don't you think? Very well may be based on her real-life experience, but written like a STORY.

My reaction was more personal... took me back to when I was a young mother and somehow, there was never time to keep the house oiled and waxed to that degree of perfection one may have been brought up to expect! And the isolation of being stuck at home with your little ones most of the time. Having a visitor, even a salesperson, made a great break in the inaction! And with that rather superficial reaction, I will move on. I'll try to read another one or two this evening...

It's wonderful to compare notes like this, isn't it?! I surely enjoy reading what YOU have seen in these pieces.

you all have me hooked.. I can't wait for that book to arrive.I called the libary today. nothing.. so I will catch up with you all as fast as I can..

This is going to be a joy for me.. I am a caregiver to my mom and to my husband.. I am housebound much of the time so you all will be good for me this winter and in the coming years. I can tell from these notes that you all love this book.. just sort of crawl in side and live along with her. Thanks for being here Stratton2 Jane

Jane Stratton2! Welcome to our group! We are now three!! You will not have any trouble catching up, I bet--not with me at any rate. I am averaging ONE of these tales per day; just too much else going on in my life. I'm surprised Betty hasn't been in here today; she usually posts ahead of me.

Well, last night I did read "Another Love Story" which Betty has already discussed somewhere above. It is just precious but, here again, I believe the author HAD this experience. Even though she is changing names, I just FEEL she was the mother in the story, and in the one just before, for that matter. There's no real difference in style and emotional content that I can tell between these two stories as compared to the earlier "stories" which were obviously memoirs, even told in the first person. At any rate, they are all sweet, thought-provoking, memory-arousing "stories" told from the vantage point of a young mother--but there is always an aged person. Each story bring us a different view of "agedness" or what it might be like there. Uncanny, subtle, heart-warming. I'm getting hooked too!

Betty... where are you???

Jeryn

Maybe Betty is in the mist of Floyd.. heavens forbid.. I am in Wv and hope we are missed.. I think we will get rain and wind.. I am ready for whatever comes.

Maybe my copy of sister age will be here tomorrow.. I went out today to get supplies and picked up some great books at Wal Mart.. I always hit the book section before I shop. I have to have my fix you know?

I love essays, I enjoy looking through others eyes from a time gone by. I found the Home Town Tales and Front Porch tales today.. by Philip Gulley. they look great..

Well going to bed to read hope all is well with Betty.. Jane Stratton2

Still here, but just barely. My computer modem has decided to cough, cough, then die...every few minutes, so I have to talk fast and write one-sentence emails, etc. More later, if possible. Betty

Oh dear oh dear! Betty has computer problems and Jane is anticipating a visit from Floyd!! Well, I hope I don't lose the whole round table here! It was hard enough getting started.

I am reading "The Second Time Around" and have not yet finished it so will just check on you all tomorrow.

So far, my favorite--after the very first one--is "Another Love Story". Just so precious; those little girls setting their mother up, not really expecting anything to come of it--and nothing does. I doubt the old fellow himself expected to be taken seriously! Do you all think he was just "playing along"? A millionaire; whew! THAT part gives me pause. How could she resist?!?!

"Another Love Story" What a wonderful piece. The more I think about it, the more I see in it. How fearless children are, for one thing, and how fearful adults grow. How do we do that? By midlife, we do accumulate all these off-limit rules. It's as if following "what's proper and acceptable" gets out of hand and we end up not being able to take risks or have new experiences. And we really do work on and work on children until some of their playfulness and creativity is knocked down by all these do's and don't's we insist on--by the time they reach adulthood. Color inside the lines. Don't wear THAT. Don't talk so loud. You're too young for that. You're too old for that. They're not our kind of people. Some of our shaping of children I wonder about.

Mr. Henshaw saw this reluctance to take risks in Mrs. Allen when he took her beyond the breakers into the ocean on that wild ride. How telling it is that her children laughed themselves silly and Mrs. Allen was terrified silent. I do love what she thought, though, when the ride was over....

"Inwardly, though, she was blown empty by a giant breath, and while they stood waiting for Mr. Crenshaw to tie up the Clara she knew that she would never be the same poor, ignorant woman of an hour ago. She would be poor, all right, and she would be ignorant and she would be a woman, but never in the same ways."

Maybe the ability to risk loving is at the heart of this story. The children can do it--and not indiscriminately, either--they selected a wonderful person to begin to love. And the elderly man can do it, even though it seemed to surprise him.

More later....got to post this before computer crashes.

Betty and Jeryn

NO book today, but maybe tomorrow.. I am so looking forward to this. but I did get my wearing purple today. I ordered it from bn over the web.. they got it here so fast... now if amazon would send Sister Age I'd be up with you all shortly..

Sister Age seems like a great book.. looking for the mail tomorrow. will let you know then

sorry you are having computer problems Betty. is noting in the world as stressing as that ....

Jane Stratton2

Oh dear, I DO hope you ladies [and your computers!] are surviving the storms. I was so hoping someone ELSE would comment first on "The Second Time Around"! I found it absolutely delightful--amusing yet rich with the author's admiration for her ultimate friend, the elderly French landlady. I'm afraid I don't find any great depth or meaning here; it's just a pleasant narrative of an experience with some really different people.

Sure hope your book comes soon, Jane Stratton2. [may I call you Jane?] Just start reading and jump right in when it does. We'll be interested in WHATEVER you have to say about some of these stories, even though--maybe especially because we've read them!

Oh Betty, where are you? Sure hope the silence doesn't mean trouble!

Jeryn,

NO book yet.. I haunt the post office, I ck'd amazon.com and my book is on it's way. I have been reading "wearing purple", these ladies are awesome. the things they share are so down to earth. I am half way thru and can't wait till I get time to read another story.. and Yes, Please call me Jane..

Will ck again tomorrow at the P.O. smiles to all Jane

Book finally arrived today.. will ck it out tonight.

Jane

Hurray!! Jane's reading!! Can't wait for you to get to "Second Time Around." More later. Betty

So... I think she is writing about her own life in the forward. and I am just starting the first chapter.I will get there but.. will take me a bit of time.

This seems to be a deep book. going to take me a bit of time to think this out. but I will.lots of dark memories written here, lots of reflections too. But, is this not the point of the book? to make us reflect? am I getting this or not? if not help

Jane

You are doing juuuuust fine, Jane. Tell us your thoughts. Not to be self-conscious; nobody here but us chickens. Hahahaha.

Everyone has been so positive about these stories, but my reading of "The Lost, Strayed, Stolen" left me quite cold, I'm afraid. A departure from the others that I just can't grasp. What have I missed? Betty, have you read that one yet?

And having said, that, I think I shall just wait for you, Jane. Take your time. I've got all year! Looks as if Betty has forsaken us, anyway...

Jeryn---you crack me up. You always end your post wondering where I am. And it always works, 'cause I have to jump in when called. Where I really am....is trying to be patient, not wanting to rush ahead of a third of our group. I really do have a bunch to say on "Second Time Around," which I savored like I was eating a rich winter soup. Oh, I really liked that one. Sometimes I can't believe how much I don't know....like the attitude of Europeans toward our cocky Americans after WWII. We're about half way through the book, so don't you agree that we could slow down just a little? At least until Jane has had some reading time? This is a learning experience for me--just 3 of us (chickens) and 1 of those having to wait and wait for a book. But, hey, I'm just so glad you have it now and are here with us, Jane. I may end up liking this smaller number of a group. Betty

Thanks for being willing to wait for me.

I was watching TV last nite and wanted to see that new show

Judging Amy. cute as can be.. and before I knew it it was

morning. went to sleep in my glasses again.. Wal Mart is

going to love me.. I go back in there and tell them I need my

glasses adjusted. They know by now that I fall alseep in them

either reading or watching TV.. they smile and fix them.. have to

get them done today. so will read tonight I promise.

Love Jane

I have been reading this afternoon, I went back to the forward and I love her discription of the picture she found in the junk shop.There seems to be a link between them, maybe a common way of looking at life. The more she looks at the picture the more she finds to love about Ursula.

Her inability to burn the picture tells me there is a link.I think Ursula is her deep seated resepct for the older people she knows.

When she burned her boxes of notes, they had become just a part of her so she did not need the notes anymore. She knew inside just what she was going to say in her book and, in some ways how she was going to portray these people.

She states that she has spent her life painstaking making an effort to tell about things as they are to HER.

She sees past today and into the future by studying Ursula in the picture, she sees her saddness, her knowledge of life..That she is past vanity.

I love the way she goes on to describe the picture, the stretched leather and the frame of fruitwood. The dark rich oils this picture is done in and how she thinks done by a well tutored young man full of romance and with a distain of fashion.

I enjoy the way she is looking forward to more teaching from her sister and her teacher..

And as for Chapter one, this to me is about the awakening of passion in a young lady. Tears can be from passion as well as pain. Love as well as Hate.

The music spoke to her soul. I have had that happen, what a wonderful feeling.

Speaking of her Grandmothers house, the screened porch and how they sat there for long evenings says to me that she is sad, longing for things in the past.She is in the mist of waiting for a life away from her family. She needs to reflect.

The Bible salesman may have been a one time lover of her grandmother or just an admirer. He may not have shown feelings but stopping by the pick that dusty rose says oh yes he had feelings for this lady of the house.

As she says, it is a begninning for her.

Jane

Second chapter: Answer in the Affirmative Longings for the past, for what was, for a young body and young mind and perhaps the first true feelings of passion.

She comes to terms with her body as it is and that must be truly a comforting feeling.I have yet to come to those terms.

She is happy to find that she can still feel the warm glowing feeling this older man helped her feel many long years ago. Memories like this are truly precious. She lets us know that she is at last coming to terms with her NOW life. She may have let the past go.

well onward to the next chapter.. Jane

The weather Within..

Well, I do not like this one, Death and talking of death. and Fear.

"Mrs. Marshall indeed moves as if she was ill, and that she had patient, sweet, sickening half-smirk so often found on the face of a person who is afraid and at the same time volupuuosly involved with her fear".

I belieive who ever this lady is, she is very insecure within her self and of her self.. (the writer) and the person who she is writing about. She lives her life through others. First her childern and then by being helpful to "the old Ladies." She doubts herself even as she is doing this. She is a bystander of life, much of her life and has no understanding of living in the real world.

I think this is a example of what happens to women who have no outside interest in their lives. But then,I think I get a hint that she may have been a nurse??? or a caregiver??? I am not sure.She states she has seen death three times. Could be family or maybe she was a nurse.

And Who is this women? does she have a name? so far the only name I have seen is Jane.. and she was called that my her mother in "Answer in the Affirmative".If this is the same person writing all these stories, and I think it is. Her style is very old fashioned."I saw this with familiar relief"? who would speak as this now? I love her use of words. She has a Euorpean sense of word.The spelling is different than now.

Come on gals. help me out here ...

Jeryn and Betty were are you? Jane

Jane---oh, I love how your words on the forward and first 3 stories help me remember each, as well as what I enjoyed and didn't. The 3 of us seem to be drawn to the same pieces.

Also enjoyed hearing of your repeated trips to get your glasses fixed--how funny. My sleep schedule (note the time of this post), well, isn't a schedule at all. I hurt, therefore I don't sleep, then I get used to loving the "wee" hours, then I stay up even when I don't hurt. When I move to Houston (ouch), and want to see my nephews, neices who live in the real world of day and night, I'm going to have to fix this sleep schedule.

In the "Answer Affirmative," you were able to think about the present day "coming to terms with her body" without the exploitation from the old guy in her past bothering you. I often feel burdened by the things I learned only a few years ago---now that I see things through "enlightened" lenses, it always feels burdensome. All those hundreds of times something old-school or traditional or stereotyped would be said in a meeting, and there I'd be. Do I speak up? Do I keep it to myself? Speaking up was always the more difficult choice because I was usually out there on a limb by myself. The point, though, is that I can't unlearn what I know....about exploitation of young girls. I also wonder if this really happened to this author/memoirist, if this is more than just fiction. What we understand so much better now is that young girls who were exploited (or worse) may never have a good body image, or fight to have one their whole lives.

Well, that's not what I meant to comment on.....I meant to respond to your saying you hadn't yet...come to terms with your body. What a sense of relief I always feel when I hear that others feel as I do about accepting...or loving...or coming to terms with our bodies. Given the onslaught of social pressure to value youth and skinny, flawless bodies, it's likely that most women, no matter what age, do not accept their bodies unconditionally. I can say that with my head, but it's hard to remember when I'm feeling less than.... SO, it does help some to read of a not so young woman in this story having a small moment of peaceful acceptance of who she is.

Jeryn---are you zooming ahead? Are you waiting? Where are you, Jeryn?!!! I guess she's deserted us. (

NOnononono! I am here! Never fear! Like you, Betty, thought I'd wait a bit now that Jane is reading these too. There's absolutely no hurry. I'm not going to read anymore until I see what you BOTH have to say about "The Lost, Strayed, Stolen"! And all that went before...

Jane, your comments are delightful! I'm so entertained by you both! Muuuuuch better at this sort of thing than I am! Bear with me; I sort of like these "stories", mostly, but I'm probably too busy reading for "what happens" rather than for "content."

Maybe I've just read one darn whodunit too many?! Hahahahaha!

I'm just so glad we're all here now!

Betty, are you on aol? I am glad you enjoyed my take of these chapters. I was not sure if I was not way off in left field or not. It is one thing to read a book for yourself only and quiet another thing to share your feelings, I love this. I think, well I hope, it will help me to get my throughts in line more. I tend to jump around a lot. my life is a jumble so my mind is always in a jumble.

I read the next chapter, but, I am finally getting to go to a foot ball game tonight that my oldest grandson is playing. I will freeze my behind off but hey, he is worth the effort. I will catch up with you on this last chapter later tonight. I'm almost to your favorite one. so then we will all be together???? or not? Many thanks for waiting for me to catch up.

Jane

Jeryn, So glad to see you. was afraid you got tired of waiting for the Wv Hillbillie to catch up.

I am going to post later tonight. enjoy you all. Jane

Jeryn and Betty,

I do not believe we come to terms with the older body. I for one keep saying to myself, there is a young slim good looking gal in this body somewhere. where is she, where has she gone? I am not over weight by any great number, but I am limited to what I can do now. How much I can walk, how long I can keep on the go. I think living in the stressful houshold I live in is wearing me down to a nub. and I have no engery to keep going. I read to escape. In a book I can go anywhere, be anyone and so on.. I'm sure you all know that feeling.

I have fought to get my girlish figure back for years. too many years, so now i have decided , I'm what I am and I have to live with it, but, I sure do not have to like it.

And I agree Betty bout the terrible things young girls and boys for that matter have been thru. I have been very lucky in that respect. But I know of others who have not been. And I agree that you have to go out of a limb if you are going to get some attention for this problem in the world. But it is not a very nice place to be.

The worse thing that I have had to deal with in my younger days is that I am dyslexic. I have had to fight to learn all my life. Back when I was young and in school, no one had heard of dyslexia, and you where just dumb or slow.My father worked with me until I could read and could write. I still see words backwards and numbers seem to be in reverse. I have had to struggle all my adult life to try to correct this. But I have made it, and this computer has helped so much.Spelling has always been next to impossible for me. so please over look that in my post.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off on this subject.. still upsets me when I think of all the problems I had in school.. many many years ago.

will post bout the book tomorrow...

Jane

Another Love Story 9-24-99

Why do you all think Mr Henshaw took them in the boat that last day and went so fast and did crazy thing? To test Marnie?

It is plain to see that Holly and Susan loved this man. maybe becasue he reminded them of their grand father? because he gave them the attention they were looking for? and hoped to have for their Mom?

I think I have more questions about this story than the others so far. I am not even sure I liked it. I even read it twice, just to see what I missed the first time. nothing that I can see !

so come on Jeryn and Betty, give me your take of this one... Where are you two anyway.. I am bout ready to talk bout "Second Time Around" Betty, it that not your fav so far? I am mid way through it.. so far well more of that later.

Come out Come out where ever you all are ..

Jane

I am here, Jane dear! Not too crazy about "Another Love Story" eh? Well, you're allowed! It's been my favorite so far, but that is just romantic me. I would have liked it even better if they'd married and lived happily ever after! Haha! But the ending it had seemed to suit the situation best. I thought Mr. Henshaw was just being nice because he liked them all. I thought he took them for the daring boat ride at the last to prove to Marnie that she was stronger than she thought she was, hoping perhaps to convince her to "take a chance on him" as well?

What's your take on this one, Betty? Wasn't it also a favorite with you?

Jane, which one have you liked best of those you've read so far? From your discussion before, sounded as if the first one touched you, as it did all of us. The 12-year-old girl who finds herself in a "Moment of Wisdom", crying over a pathetic but proud little old man.

Well, perhaps you are right. I think Marnie was a strong women to do all she had done.. moving with two young girls, taking care of her dying father. But he was asking her to give up nothing, just to go along as she was, right? and let him come and go as he saw fit.. maybe like a military wife she did not enjoy that throught. Being a long time military wife, I did not enjoy that part of the service either. Made me a strong person, more able to deal with the world, but it was not good for a relationship or for childern. So maybe that was the way she was thinking, that she needed a strong hand on hand for her family.

Yes, so far "A Moment in Wisdom" is my fav.

I did not like the story of the wax man because i could relate so well to her feelings of being left behind. made me have memories of a time I was not happy and was worried all the time. my husband was in Viet Nam and that was the most horrible time of my life.Two small childern, loss my beloved Father and it went on and on.

So, here I am still mid way in the Second Time Around" .. will try to get it done tonight.

Jane

I agree, Jeryn, that the wild boat ride (only wild to Marnie, the others were thrilled) was an experience designed to show her that life can be frightening and exhilarating at the same time, but the risk is worth it. She was changed by the experience--her own thoughts. That when we try something new or previously unknown, it changes us forever. So, even though she didn't accept his proposal, Marnie went back home from her trip a changed person. The story is subtly suggesting that we can get stuck mid-life, unwilling to keep growing, changing, experiencing new things.

Second Time Around. I haven't read it for days and don't have the book in front of me. Let's see if I can pull up my thoughts on it. It's about friendship. The long road to friendship, in just this case. It's about how alive she felt living with people so completely different from her. After living with Madame Duval and her house of war weary people, with all their wounds and outbursts and loyalty and insistence on sticking to the pre-war traditions (mostly for show), she said.....now, I know I can live anywhere in the world.

It's about how long it takes to sluff off the first layer effects of war. It took Madame Duval and others 5 years to relax into their bodies--they looked younger, could smile.

Most surprising to me, the author is writing about how little Americans realized what psychological damage was done to Europeans. Surprising to me because I don't think I've ever thought about the lasting effects on Europeans nor have I read anything about it, nor can I call to mind books written on the subject (which doesn't mean a thing because there certainly could be books on this without me being aware of them). The book has (thank goodness) a European sensibility, a good hard look at how unthinking a superpower could be. Remember all the sterotypes we had of "unfriendly" French people?....repeated from those who could travel for pleasure in Europe during the 1950's and 1960's, even? I'm thinking of unquestioned, unexamined sterotypes. Well, this is my first look at how some Europeans could have sustained such damage from being invaded by Nazi Germany, such lasting damage, that it could have taken a long time to trust or warm to ANY outsiders. Even proud, friendly Americans. Our more popular, maybe one-dimentional images are of the parades down Paris streets of Americans who are greeted by cheering, grateful Parisians.

What was so touching to me was the struggle to hang on to pre-war traditions of 5 course meals, "afternoons" of visiting between formerly upper class ladies---all the framework of familiarity. Even though there was (maybe) a hint of criticism in the author's descriptions of competition between these "afternoon's" bakery treats, etc., it made sense to me that they would get just this little pleasure of showing off how well they were coping, how well they were recovering...to each other. Actually, I don't think the author was making fun of or critizing. I think the author was painting a picture of desperation---especially during the scene when she goes to interview and be interviewed by the other landlady...and we read how the other landlady has been working around the clock to show this false face of old-world gentility. Inside Madame Duval's house, conversely, as long as no "afternoon" ladies were present, there was no false front. All the raw hurt, damage and chaos of war hung out everywhere. But as a group. Maybe that was part of the message--she was witness to the group being loyal to each other, no matter how awful the individual sicknesses of war. That they accepted and held each other up while the healing was going on.

Maybe I liked this story so much because there has always been a rebellious, risk-taker inside me that saved me a few times, that I could see the appeal of this place to live, a place my family would have said, "You're going to do what!!?"

Since I'm 51 (2 days ago) and use a scooter to get around in my house (neuro-muscular disorder, had since birth, 1st symptoms at age 12, no real limitations until age 35, just now really feeling limited), I proably read such a story with some wistfulness. My days of charging off to do something career-wise or education-wise (graduate school at 40) are over. Come to think of it, maybe I even identified a little with the false front of the war-worn women who struggled to keep others convinced that they were doing just fine, thank you. That letting outsiders know there were troubles, well, forget it. It also rang bells about how long it takes to let a new friend "in," how long trust takes.

Who would have ever thought a few pages of short story would have such an effect. Aren't books wonderful??

Jane---you wrote that you didn't like the story of the waxman because you could relate so well to the feelings of being left behind.

My goodness, when I relate to something or someone in a story--ESPECIALLY if it has to do with an awful time in my life, it makes me feel grateful, not so alone, validated, even understood. I WANT to know that others have come through what I have, that it didn't just happen to me. I want to know I'm not "crazy" (meaning overreacting) and I often get that message of being "average" (oh, it happened to many others) and therefore, relief, wonderful relief.

In fact, I have some kind of barometer when reading, that measures when something doesn't quite feel real, that it has been sanitized or prettied up. If it is trying too hard to cheer me, it usually misses its mark. What I want to read about are the real life struggles of regular people who have hurt, grown from the experience and figured out how to get on with their lives. In fiction as well as memoir. I have plenty issues that drag on and on (family stuff, of course) and one giant source of relief for me is to read of how others have been where I am.

Maybe that's one of the things about this book that appeals to me. As a woman in mid-life, she often presents herself as unfinished, still struggling with things like body image, coming to terms with age, etc. I like knowing I'm not the only one struggling.

Betty & Jeryn.

"The Unswept Emptiness "

This story touched a core in me that I was hoping was gone. I was young when my husband was in the military. He was in the Navy and was gone most of the time to sea. Maybe I was meant to relive this painful time in my life, thru this story.the loss of my father the being left behind, to make me realize that others were stronger than I. That it is possible to come thru this time in life and not have bad/sad feelings of it. I married the military when I married a career millitay man. Knowing this in your head and knowing it in your heart is two diffenent things.

Yes, I do want to know that others made it better than I. Thank you Betty for pointing this out to me.It has given me something to think about and to work through.

"Second Time Around"

I loved this one. I think I have finally found who this lady is that is writing these stories. I think she is writing her life story. I enjoyed that she worked so hard to gain the friendship of her landlady, and that she went back several times to visit her during the following years.

She gave us a indepth look into the lives of the way her landlady worked to have her house in order for the "Afternoons" and what it meant to her to maintain her apperances at all cost to even her health. She also gave us a inside look at how hard the maids worked to help their lady do this.

The many servings during the meal and the detail to the meal was interesting to me. The statement "that it was an always persent an overt amazement that any American could really know how to hold a teacup, how to tell the difference between the 16th and 17th century sideboards and how to say "si" instead of"oui" at the right places."

I have often wondered how people in war torn counties continue to live ,and have any quality of life after their town and countries have been destroyed.It amazes me the strenght they show to keep on and how they build a life with what is left there. We see so many counties in ruin on the TV now. How does the women feed her family, how do they find a place to sleep? and what of all they lost from this? How do they just go on?

Betty, I would enjoy writing to you privately. Ginny has my e mail address and does Jeryn.If you feel we can do this please write.If not I do understand and we can go on here as before.. I do enjoy this group.

Jane

I am still reading"The Lost,Strayed, Stolen"

Seems I have to read and think and think and read.

I finished"The Second Time Around" last nite, I really did enjoy this one.I am thinking and will post later today.

Are you ladies doing well today?

Jane

Anyone home other than me? Jane

Jane! I was not at home yesterday! Bu-sy day getting ready for and attending my only grandchild's 11th birthday shindig! A fun time but consumed the entire day!

I am so enriched by the thorough and insightful ideas BOTH you ladies are posting on this book!!! I have much enjoyed SOME of these stories but am not nearly so good at verbalizing exactly WHY as you two are. I just can't tell you how much YOUR reactions enhance MY enjoyment!! Truly. I am so pleased at your reactions to each other, as well. Isn't that just what these discussions are all about?!

As I'm getting to know each of you better through your posts, most recently yours, Betty. I am so impressed. Appears each of you have nearly insurmountable life situations which I can barely comprehend. How brave you must be! Speaking of people's survival techniques in war-torn countries; the two of you, with your very different difficulties, can teach us all something about surviving. I have tears in my eyes...

On with the book [snif]. I will plunge in and say that the last story I've read, "The Lost, Strayed, Stolen", quite left my wondering, "How did THAT get in here?!" It is just not a part of the picure, the pattern, of her life's adventures with aging and the aged person. Is it? First of all, I don't believe in ghosts and find most such stories to be just fairy tale hokum, occasionally entertaining, but always fantasy. That's why it doesn't seem to fit here. The other stories could have really happened, maybe did. This one could not. I'm ready to move on to the next one but want to wait and see what YOU both think.

Back to Second Time Around.

I enjoyed this story. The insight of days gone by and how hard the landlady tried to hold on the her dignity. Mne. Duval tried hard to be detached from her boarders as people, this interest me. Are they just a means to an end? money in her pocket to help her maintain her way of living? I think so. The ladies that want to be "the one to be" they try to out do each other in the "Afternoons" I bet there are people in High Society who can take a lesson from these ladies. You can tell from this that being in society is upmost on their mind.

The writer tells in detail the surroundings of each house. I love reading this. detail is very important. I enjoyed her way of describing the ladies who had the Vituperatons over a broken tea cup. The jealousy of Josephine over the Minet the tom cat nights out. I enjoyed reading about the second in command of the household Blanchette, she was something. She thinks she had them in a place where they can't do with out only to find she is as indespinsble as anyone else in the world. I enjoyed the discribtion of Claire, She did her work even tho she was perhaps a few short of a dollor.. and the way she left with a younger man. that was an interesing twist. perhaps to just show Blanchette that she was not all that much better than a poor maid ? Station in ones life was very important in this time of history. And maybe in some parts of Society it still is. I enjoy living in a place where we are all considered to be equal in station at least.I am too plain spoken to live in a sheltered world, I would be removed as an embasserment for sure.Well, perhaps sheltered world is not just the right words I'm trying to find. help me out here gals.

As for my trials when I was younger, well, I feel much better because I have over come this(Dyslexia) to a degree. I have pushed myself and tried to improve each day of my life since I was aware of this.There is noting I will not try to see if I can improve more. The computer is one example. I love it most I think because it is my window to the out side world. and when you make a mistake here, you can just back space and correct it. now that would be neat in life as well, but then maybe we would not learn as much or as well.Betty you are one amasing lady. Did you go to College and get your Phd? I really admire those who overcome a disability to make great strides. It is then not a disability but a Shield of Courage. We are only as disabled as we let ourselves be. I think it is wonderful. Just shows what we can do when we make up our mind to it. Mind over matter.

Enjoy this very much. Helps me to get my throughts in line(somewhat) and to share my feelings too.

Jane 9-26-99

Betty, were are you? we miss your wonderful post. I finished,"Lost,Strayed,Stolen" Like you Jeryn,I am wondering how this piece was included in this collection.

I don't know what to say about this one. so I'm waitin on the reactions of you all.

As for today, I think my Beautiful Red Dog has had a stroke, I called a vet and almost begged for them to make a house call. money no object, but she refused. Said to get the humane society to come get her and bring her in. Well, over my dead body, this is a family memeber we are talking about. She has been a loyal friend, she watched my husband during the nights after his Strokes, she would come and get me when necessary. she is not taking her final journey in the back of a humane society van. She is down, I can't get her up. So tomorrow I will call a friend to help me take her to the Vet. She seems to be in NO pain. She just lays and looks at me with those big brown eyes "like help me mom". breaks my heart into.I give her water, small amounts every hour. so she is not dehydrated. she will not eat. but she will drink. I gave her chicken soup liquid from a dropped all day.

So this is a sad day here in our home.. we will most likely lose a friend.

Jane

Jane, I'm so sorry, I wish I lived closer, I'd come over and take your dog to another vet, not that one! I wish you lived closer, MY vet would come. Shame!!

Well now it may be hopeful that she still drinks?? Now our dogs did refuse all water and food, I'd not give up hope here!!

I'm thinking of you and your Beautiful Red Dog tonight and want to hear tomorrow what the vet says. She's not, by any chance, diabetic, is she? If you (Doctor Anderson here) have any Karo syrup you might try a tablespoon full if she'd eat it, that reminds me of the seizures our old Butch used to have and he was diabetic?

You might also want to go over to the Furry Friends discussion and see if any of them have experienced this and what it might be?

We care, Jane, I'm so sorry, and now darn it all I have to get offline (lightning) but will be anxiously watching tomorrow to see what happened. She may recover spontaneously, that happens too. The drinking water is a good sign.

Much love, let us know,

Ginny

Dear Jane,

You aren't alone. We are all pulling for Red Dog! Ginny's right, drinking water is a good sign. Has she been sick? Let's hope for the best. A bright morning, a bright new day! I bet you don't get much rest tonight. Can you get a pillow and some blankets and sleep next to her? You are in our thoughts tonight...

Love,
Joan

I slept with her last nite. will do so tonight too. she is part chow and part golden reteiver. her eyes are the color of her coat, deep deep arburn. we have been throught so much together. long nights with Jack during his seizures.. She was right there to keep him safe until she could come get me. I was very upset with this vet. you can bet this will not be let go. some animal lover that can't come when I am housebound with two sick people. right?I know the owner of this hospital and will call him in the am to see why this could not be done. I don't want special treatment I just want help tonight.

I am tired and am going to go rest with her now. she is like a fur coat.. I will have to have a shower in the am. she is seading like crazy.. I gave her some gator ade. I mixed it with her water and she drank it. so maybe I'm over reacting, I sure hope so. I have not seen her not get up at all tho.

Thank you all for the post. I am very tired tonight.

Jane

Oh, Jane, Jane. I can't believe your dog can't be seen until the morning. If she gets worse tonight (wish I'd seen this and written earlier), I think I'd try almost anything. EMS, 911, the fire dept., the police department. SOMEONE is bound to love a dog as much as you love yours and would come right away. Does that vet hospital you know have an after hours emergency number? If your vet won't come, what about any other vet? Someone's heart is bound to be touched.

My 14 year old cat is in poor health, so I know some of how you must feel. I should be in the middle of my move to Houston, but I just don't think he could live through the trip, so I wait and am indecisive.

I agree it's a good sign your dog is drinking water; beyond that I don't know much about dogs. Except my cat thinks he's a dog. I've just taught him to slap my outstretched hand with his paw when I say, "Give me five."

Well, you must let us know how things are in the morning--after you get back home.

You know, I DID post yesterday and it's not here. So strange. I've never had that happen in any other folder.

Joan, my new good hearted debater friend, how did you know we had a sick dog over here in this secret corner? Betty

P.S. When we know that your dog is OK, I'm going to email you something on cats and dogs that will make you laugh.

Betty and all:

My Red Dog is still alive. She is not suffering. She can't get up and I can't pick her up. she is dead weight and must weight a good 100 plus pounds.I called the Vet Hospital early this am. Dr. told me he would come out tomorrow to put her down. This is the only Vet in the area that I know of. He is covered over.I am sure she has had a stroke. Her breathing is labored and I have her on a blanket and have a fan in the room going to give her air. She is still taking a bit of water every hr. she is NOT passing any of this water so I know she is about to pop. She is unable to get up at all. Jack and I have tried to hold her up so she may try to go but she just wants back down and makes no effort.Well, bout 2am I really did think of calling 911 but I didnt want to get laughed out of Bramwell. I have a good friend who I will call tonight to build a box for her and to dig her grave tomorrow. He would take her to hospital but we are unable to pick her up. We have to have help tomorrow to bury her I'm sure. my pet grave yard is down a hill behind my house. She will rest with my other pet friends of the past. I am giving her aspirin as the Vet told me to do each 4 hrs. I just open her mouth and stick it down her throat.

Also if I call the police department they will want to shoot her, I will not do that, she deserves more than that.She needs to go out with the diginity that she has showed thruough out her life with us. And she will.

Betty, your cat sounds like you have a great relationship with her. I know Red has to be at least 12 ro 13. she has a white nose now and her chin is also white.Our son gave Red to us and he is having a hard time coming to terms that she is leaving us. We as a family love pets very much, they are part of us and will always be part of us. as much as this hurts I know I will just do it again and again.What is life with out a pet? they are there for you and ask no more than a bit of food and a lot of love.

I have read a bit too. I sat up with her last nite and read to her a bit. she loved it.

These last two stories in this book .. well what can I say? I read with joy the plans that Professor Revenant made for his friends to visit him. The detail and the food and the wine and so on. Then did I get a surprise. He is dead and so are his friends. So, what is going on here gals? I read and re read that last page, I throught,Jane you have to have misread this . LOL, well guess not.

I am on the oldest man now. I hope this is not another one of the strange stories of the last two..

I tried to get on eariler today but it was down. So I decided to keep on trying and got it this last time. must have been doing some work here or something.

Many Thanks for the love and friendship and the words of comfort during this trying time.

Will keep you updated as things go along.

Jane

Jane, Ah, how sad. They are a part of us, our lives, just as you said, so coming into and out of our lives are just a part of it. I'm not very grown-up about it, though. Can't imagine giving up my time with Pookie, but will take a page from your experience and just go through it when it comes, glad to have had so long with him. Whatever help you need, go ahead and call fire dept or whatever. It's unlikely someone who has loved a pet will laugh---and if they do, who cares what they think. Think of yourself, please, and what you need.

I'll see if I can't focus on some reading tonight. With my sister-in-law losing all her hair this week (breast cancer) and hearing about your sad task, it's hard to enjoy---but probably like you, I let reading take me away from present day reality, so maybe I can read tonight.

Be tuned into whatever YOU need tomorrow--and let us know. You've got all our email addresses, so write to whoever and whenever. By the way, I am ALWAYS up, so time doesn't matter. Betty

Jane: Sorry to hear that Red Dog will have to be put down. But that is the most humane thing... It's almost as bad as a death in the family.. Being a retired farmer, we always got too close to our farm animals, and when an old horse or cow would die, it devastated me. But there was a new animal to love and care for, and the new babies were fun to raise.

Oh my - I lurked here last thursday evening and found the discussion facinating. When I got back into town yesterday I visited the book store all evening into the night reading and trying out new books. Even ate my supper in the book store and among the books that I broused and read a few chapters desided to buy Sister Age so that I could add my two cents.

Well lo and behold I learn that there had been a tragedy in Stratton2s life. The loss of a loving, loyal, helpful being. How isolating the professionals of today make us feel. Their focus as care givers seem to be more with the science of matter rather then, caring, honoring the virtues that are the soul of a being, that should be acknowledged with dignity.

Jane, I'm SO sorry about Red Dog. Oooooh it is sad to lose such a friend, a member of the immediate family. Yes, the medical industry, both human and animal, is just that any more--an industry. Most disappointing. It is a humane thing to do to help the doggie just go to sleep. Thank heavens we have this service available for our animals. It is hard but you have our love and caring, at any rate.

And this sadness brought out a few lurkers, I see! Welcome Joan P, Pat W, Ginny, and Barbara! And so glad to hear you are joining us, Barbara.

I, too, read the second "ghost" story and found it just as disappointing as the one before. Betty, we'll be most interested to hear YOUR reaction!

I want to Thank you all for the kind words. My dear friend Red Dog has been loved by us for a long time. Yes, that makes it all the harder to see her go, but I do not believe in delaying her passing for my own sake. But I am richer by far for having a friend like her in my life.She has shown me that pets know us deeper than we sometimes know our selves. They have a insite that is amazing. They know who to trust and who to be a bit leary of.

Again Thanks and much love to you all Jane

Hello, Jane and all,

I know you'll excuse me if I drag my feet on looking at the next story. I was hoping we could stay put for a moment and say something about loss or coping or friendship or our pets. So many of the stories touch on loss, then we have it happen in real life to Jane. So, if you'll indulge me, there were two things that came to mind tonight about loving pets.

One was what a dog taught me about my father. He was never able to show much connection to his children and, in fact, was quite cruel to all of us. Many, many years later, though, I watched with fascination to see this man show tenderness and real concern for his dog. Years of it. And some gradual, awkward changes toward his children. What I learned was that he was able to love, and who knows why he didn't know how earlier.

The next is such an unserious story, I hesitate to tell it now. But in thinking about how pets bring joy....and of Pookie, my cat, so old with so many painful joints that are off limits to touching. Anyway, lately, when I hold and cuddle him, I hold him cradled up high, right on my collar bone, under my chin, all curled into that turkey-shaped ball. A few weeks ago, just as I was going to sleep--on my back, covers up, waiting for Pookie to come settle beside my knees with his chin on my knees--long habit--something else took place. This heavy old cat (but still with quirky young personality) walked up my body (ouch, ouch, ouch) to my chest-collar bone area and stood still. I pretended to be asleep, curious about what he was up to. He set about pulling, tugging and scrunching with his head--the covers. He worked on first one shoulder area, then the other to get the quilt off my shoulders. Then he sat down in his familiar spot on my collar bone....but only for a second before he stood back up again. By this time, the pain from his poking paws was awful and my being tickled at his determination was getting harder to hold in. But I waited to see what he'd do next. (He still thought I was asleep.) He started butting my chin with his head, just how he does when he's doing what we call "hug-hugs." But this was no hug-hug. These were serious butts on one side of my face---and then I got it. My chin was in his way. So, I let my chin be pushed waaay over to the side. Then he plunked himself down, furry body right on my neck/collar bone, legs and tail hanging off one shoulder, legs outstretched on the other side with his chin on the other shoulder. As tickled as I was, the shift from quilt to furry cover felt pretty good. That's the last I remember, anyway, because I fell asleep with him there.

Maybe not today, Jane, but when you're in the mood, I'd like to hear more about Red Dog. Some favorite things, or goofy things, or what you're going to miss. Or maybe that's too private---whatever you're in the mood to tell. Jeryn, Barbara, Ginny, Joan, Pat, all, any beloved pets? and stories? that would help Jane feel she's among "serious" pet lovers? (The kind, as I was, that when Pookie was a baby/teenager and afraid of the vacuum cleaner, I would push it turned off, making the loud sound myself, getting increasingly louder and louder day after day until the real thing no longer frightened him. I told that once to a non-pet person and was met with a blank stare.)

Ok, I'll go read....Betty

I like cat stories... But I've never owned a cat... The cats around me have owned me and I have been a faithful companion.

But when we moved from the farm and Charlie developed severe allergies, the cats could not make the move, so now we are without pets. The Siamese that guards the farmhouse now hisses at me when I come. He knows I don't live there.

Oh, how sad. Jane just emailed and asked that I pass along that just a little while ago, Red Dog died peacefully. Only a few minutes before, she had written that the night had been a nightmare, with Red Dog vomiting and bleeding, and with numerous calls to the vet---who had not come yet. Don't know any more details.

So, today is a tough one. Or maybe one of relief, I don't know. I'm sure she'll fill us in when she can.

So, to decrease the spotlight on Jane while she catches her breath, and even after she does, this would be a good place for some tender, or silly, or sad or funny pet memories. So, if she feels like telling us more about this special creature, she'll know she's among those who never tire of hearing of these furry family members. (At the moment, I'm stretching waaay over this territorial furball sitting in my lap to reach the keyboard. Comfortable it's not but comforting, always.)

Goodness. So many are affected by this. I've had several emails this afternoon, mostly from those who haven't posted before in this section, saying how bad they feel, but feel too awkward to write, or don't know what to say. Actually, I think most of us don't know what to say, unless you already feel close enough to email Jane directly. Feeling awkward is often the reaction when someone has a loss. Boy, do I know. I often cover up awkwardness and don't-know-what-to-say with wordiness. Sometimes I talk on and on, hoping no one figures out how inadequate I feel at times like this.

The only thing I know that is comforting is to speak from your own experience--when you've had a loss, when you've loved a pet...that makes the loneliness of loss not quite so acute. I think several have been doing that directly to Jane.

Don't know why, but I keep thinking of the author's first story and her "tears of new wisdom," when the frail old man picks the rose. I have absolutely no idea why that keeps coming to mind, don't even see the connection. Maybe I'm just too sad today and can't think. Betty

Oh Betty, you are so eloquent! It is a gift; treasure it. I am like the rest... hard to know what to say to poor Jane as she suffers through this hard time. I am just saddened to pieces to think the vet could not come through for her.

We have always been "cat people" and I have lost five really dear ones over my adult lifetime. The last was my all time favorite dear cat, "Buster", who had to be put to sleep in December 1995. He was at least 19 years old, had lost half his body weight, and had been in "the nursing home" for a month when I finally consented to have it done. I wrote a poem about Buster...

Here's to sweet Buster, no longer around;
He's gone to kitty Happy Hunting Ground.
We miss his quick purr,
His soft orange fur--
And just hope where he's gone, chipmunks abound!

And now I think I will go read too.

First and formost I want to thank you all for your love and great letters today. and for those who do not know what to say, just knowing there are those who are touched by My RED DOG and her love for us and us for her is very much enough. Thanks you very much, one and all.

My Red was given to me by our son. He had rescured her from death from a family who was going to have her put down because, their childern would not care for her as they promised. So Christopher found out from a member of his Band. He went to the house and knocked on the door and ask for RED. That day we were given the most wonderful ball of red fur, she had eyes the same color has her coat. She was deep rust/amber color. He came over here and showed her off. he was married at the time so, he was being nice to share his gift. I told him that day, I will have that pup someday. Red did not like his wife and would not eat, I think she was mean to her. and she was getting so thin, I ask for her. Christopher walked her over as he just lived across the way. She has been here for about 7 years.

So began a love affair with a gentle soul, who ask nothing more than a hug and a dish of water and food. she just wound her way into all our hearts that first day. of course I was already a goner:)

My husband has had 4 major strokes. from those strokes he suffered very bad seizures. She took it upon herself to become his Angel. She was in his room every second of every day unless she went out to the bathroom. If at nite Jack has a seizure, and I for some reason didn't hear him, she would make sure he was in a safe positon if he had fallen in the floor, and then she would come get me. When I heard her I knew she needed my help. She would roll him on his side and turn him over in a place that would be safe for her to leave him to come get me. She was amazing.When I bought Jack home from the Hosptial after he started walking after 7 years she was the first one out the door and into his lap. She was so thrilled to have her friend back home. If jack was eating she was eating. she was a pig. she loved the good food(which I know we shouldn't have given her) but I do not think it really hurt her. and she would beg for food from him and not dare ask me. she knew who to beg from. She had him wrapped around her toe nail.

I have many more great memories of my dear friend. I wish you all the gift of the love of an animal who really becomes a deep friend. who you can love and talk to and she will not tell Red and I had many of these talks.

Today I have received many calls from family and friends who knew she was sick. I have also made new friends through her. I think she was a true Angel. She brings out the best in us she sure taught me the meaning of trust and love from a pet.Maybe this was her destiny to bring love to the world and show us the way of communication, to be able to share the love we had/have for our animal friend/family.

So ,lets share our memories. they can only help us and make us happy. True love and sharing does this, be it from a pet or a family member. and my pets always become instant family members.

I am ready to share with you all. I have seen her at peace and know as I said she is resting among our other family pets. I bet they are having a good ole gap session down there saying. well, did Jane do this for you? did she rub your tummy when you rolled over?Tell me all bout Jane and how she was when she was younger and has she learned to do better by her pets? I can hear them now.:)She is more understanding of our needs now? can she see into our souls now? has she learned the important lesson we were sent to teach her? I thnk I have and I'm proud to share it with one and all.

With that I will say good nite. I have been up for ever it seems and I'm beat to a nub.

I appreciate you all, you can never know just how much I treasure you all. Jane

PS Betty Red Dog Loved to smell a rose. maybe that is why you are thinking of that today. she was a flower lover. I will make sure she is surrounded by them. Jane

Oh Jane! Can anyone's eyes be dry after reading that?! I think not! It is soooooo sad to lose a beloved pet. Many among us have travelled that road. Our hearts ache all over again for you. What a dog! What a valued pet!! Thank you for sharing...

Well, I held it together, Jeryn, until I got to the dogs talking to each other, comparing notes. But I was grinning while crying. There is a writer in you, Jane.

The two "ghost stories," as someone called them (Lost, Stolen.., The Reunion) were fictionalized exercises in guessing/hoping/wondering about what comes next after death. The author seems to be trying out different scenarios of afterlife. They both had a tone of hope, as in hoping it will be some version of her stories. All that interacting with people still alive. Unfinished business not so permanent. A few extra chances.

I enjoyed the dogs talking to each other more than the two stories.

Many thanks for the kind words again.

Today has been just a bit eaiser. I do find myself looking for RedDog, and then I realize she is gone.Mercy what a time we have had.

Today a dear friend who is a stroke support group and who by the way had earlier this year a double lung transplant, came to stay with Jack and Mom to give me time alone. It could not have come at a better time than today. It has been raining all day long. The wind is very strong too.Paula had written to me a few weeks ago saying she was going to be in this area today, and she wanted me to make an appointment with a friend or a hair dresser(she must have known I needed a perm) so I called my hair dresser, and she had a opening today. soooo I was here about 2 hrs with Paula and then went to get a perm. what a treat to be among these crazy women to share their lives stories at a hair shop. I bet I was more relaxed after 30 minutes than I have been in months. so I have a new perm tonight and not one minutes too soon I may say. Jack and Paula played cards while I was gone and she beat him good. Mom came down and watched her soaps. So this was a good day. Paula came in with a box, in it she had a pot roast, taters, carrots and onions in a rich brown gravy, rolls and fresh kale, also a choclate cake. yummie I did pig out after the perm.

She left when I got home she is from Norfork, Va and was meeting some friends in Roanoke, Va for dinner tonight.

I again thank you all for the support during this time..

I guess I am back to reading now. so, after this what are we reading? I have some suggestions..... "Lost Highways"by Curtiss Ann Matlock or "A Home at the end of the world" by Micheal Cunningham... I have them both but if you all have others to read or this has already been decided I'm fine with what ever you all decide.

This group is sure a sanity saver for this ole gal. Love Jane

Wow. What a women--this Paula. What a friend. And perfect timing. Wish you had this day away every week---or do you have something similar once a week? Betty

Hello Betty and Jeryn,

Boy, it is getting cold here in Wv now, our furnace was on most of the nite and some today. Jeryn said in her note once she was ready to gather her grapes, hope it is warmer there to do that. Do you sell the grapes or do you make your wine, jellies or what do you all do?

Yes, Paula is a wonderful lady.and No ,I do not get out each week, but I do go to the local post office every day and chat with the lady there. Gets me out and I enjoy her.You know, small town ,small town post office and big time yacking

Today a good friend came down to watch mom so Jack and I could get out for a couple of hours. we went out to eat and to Wal Mart, big day but was nice. The trees are turning here and are beautiful. So we drove along and looked and enjoyed them. Teresa who stayed with mom is a child hood friend, she married the boy I grew up with across the street so, we are very close.

Have a good evening, I am trying to wade thru "the oldest man", not getting too much from it so far.

Love Jane

Well, Betty, sounds as if you were a bit turned off by the "ghost" stories too! I have not read any more after those two--will have to get on it tonight.

Ah, Jane, so glad you have a friend like Paula thinking of you like that. I took note of your suggestions for other books to read. I think this discussion is an offshoot of the "BY Women..." folder but, hey, ANYONE can suggest a book to read! Oh, say, it was our intrepid B&L leader, Ginny, who has a grape farm or something, in South Carolina. All we have here in NE Ohio is lots of falling leaves right now!

"See" you both tomorrow...

So Ginny, you have the grape vineyard? that is right, I have been so mixed up and confused this week I am lucky to know my name..

So Ginny, what are you all making with your grapes.. some yummie wine or some yummie jelly?

Today I went to WalMart, I hit the book section first. I found some good ones. one is called "Choice" by Abigail Reed. the back of the book tells that it is bout three women who make choices in their life and how it affects them and their families all the rest of their lives. interesting huh? it will take me the rest of my life to read all the books in this house. well, actually I may need another life to accomplish that job.

My bed room is full of books. wall to wall books. some I have read and some I have hoarded to read later. I give the ones I read to the VA hospital for the employees and the vets. I also take some to our postmaster, she and I talk bout them then. I have a great friend in MA who gets some of my books too. She has a daughter and they fight over them when I mail them to them. I love it.

Well good nite my friends. I need my bed.

Jane

FINALLY back in here, so sorry, Jane, about Red Dog, it's a real loss, isn't it, took me years to get over our old Butch's passing away, they're real friends.

Yes, c'est moi with the grapes, I thought for a moment there our Jeryn was out in the vineyards, too! We sell the grapes and people make what they like from them, I make a lot of jelly and am off today to the State Fair to enter, why, I don't know, as I don't seem to have any likely winners, but it's habit, I guess.

Remember the Miss Clara character on the old Andy Griffith show? In Mayberry? Remember the "kerosene cucumbers" episode? (That is Don Knott's favorite episode). Anyway, Clara Edwards lives and you're talking to her. Don't use scrapbooks, tho.

hahahahaha

Nothing turning here but my hair.

Ginny

Hello All,

Have been reading, I read"The oldest man" well, what to say? I think it reflects the relationship between families. the respect and the horror of seeing a parent grow old. A lot of insight in this piece.

I did and I didn't enjoy it. strange mixture of feelings for me to be sure.

So, share what you all got from it and how if made you feel?

Jane 10-2-99

A question answered.

I wonder if Ms Mack is dead all way thru this story. She seems to be unseen by her friends and family.

and then she talks to the Rats, either she is very lonely or she is insane. I do not know.( if she is alive at all )

Of course I could have completely missed the point of this one too. I read it twice to see if I could come up with something different, but didn't.

Jane 10-2-99

I haven't read "A Question Answered" yet, Jane, but I did read "The Oldest Man" and found it delightful. I like this author best when she seems to be writing from her own personal experience. The "memoir" style just seems to appeal to me more than the "stories". I found no deep or hidden meanings in it, just the pleasure taken when people who like each other spend some time visiting, especially in a pleasureful setting.

If "A Question Answered" is going to be another "ghost story", I'll just speed through it.

Jeryn--I agree. The essays from her real life appeal most (or at least those pieces that are more obvious to us from her life--they may all relate in various ways).

The oldest man was delightful. In some ways through her writing, I think she is saying that we are missing something if we do not enjoy people much older than ourselves. She's in midlife and giving us glimpses of people much older than herself. And in ways that are different from the old, stereotyped views of older people. They seem whole and interesting and fully alive.

My reading is slowing down---I confess I'm caught up in reading "A Hope in the Unseen." Need to finish this one, though, in the next day or two. I'm excited about "Pears on a Willow Tree." Will you two be reading that, too? I sure hope so. Betty

I love to read your throughts on this book. they make me go back and reread the story and think it over again.

What is "Pears on a Willow Tree"? i will try to find it.. I am hooked on this group to be sure. who wrote it? I will ck it out .

And I agree that she is showing us how to grow old gently. And I agree that the older generation has a lot to teach the younger ones. The extended family of the older days was not such a bad way to live. It gave the young a taste of the older and the older a way to stay young.

I am going to take the family to see our son tomorrow and to have a long drive to see the changing leaves in our area..they are wonderful. Fall is my favortie time of year because of the color. But then I say that about winter and spring and summer too.

Winter here is so cold and so beautiful.The Snow is so pure looking.

Spring has a promise and summer is awesome with color of the promise that has been full blown.

Good nite Jane

I found the Pears on the apple tree, ordered it just now. so will be in that discussion too. Looks like it will be wonderful. I also ordered the one about the intercity.I think it will be great too.

Rain here in Wv today, it rained alllll nite long too.

I read a few stories last nite. Diplomatic, Retired.

I like this one. I believe he is still in the state of importance here. He can't get over having a big job and being important. Also, could this Mrs Glenn be the young lady who he had commited to the insane asylum along with her husband?

Jane 10=4=99

I meant Pears on a willow tree.

Jane

I have almost finished "Sister Age"

I have enjoyed the last few stories there.. very much in fact. The "Mrs. Teeters' Tomato Jar" was a beautiful story. I could almost see the color of that jar and the surrounding sands that held it for many years.Her way of telling about the desert rats made me smile. sure knew a way to a mans heart.. thru his stomach. I enjoyed reading about Arnold and his friendship with Mrs.Teeters. How he gave her the jar and what it meant to her. Her salt rising biscuits made my mouth water, and just thinking of those men who had not had hot bread for so long and how they found her to eat how much she meant to them and how she enjoyed doing for them.

Jane

Hello Jane. I have finished all but the "Afterword" and it is proving more interesting than the last few stories! I agree "Mrs. Teeter's Tomato Jar" was rather charming, especially compared to the lady with her rats and the lady who ate straaaaange things! Ewwww! I mean, what IS the point?

These stories have been quite up and then down as far as I'm concerned. Would you agree? It would be well-nigh impossible to rate this book on a scale of 1 to 10 [Best=10] because the stories themselves range from 1 to, oh maybe 8. My opinion. What do you think?

I think we've lost Betty to some other discussion. I bet she lost interest!

Forgive me if you know this already. To do the Pear...Willow Tree discussion, click on the underlined Books & Literature at the lower part of this discussion, then when you get to that page, click on the book graphic OR the discussion in the list.

Jeryn always knows how to push my buttons. Tonight's reading is in Sister Age, so I can share these stories you like. And, yes, I've been reading...A Hope in the Unseen...and Pears on a Willow Tree....and the new Faulkner biography (for Absalom book)....AND just got Possession and will start it in a few days. Waaaaay too much.

Betty

It is so easy to put too much on one's plate when it comes to books! I find myself reading several books at a time anymore, just as a matter of course. Never used to do that.

How would YOU rate Sister Age, Betty, now that we are nearly done? Do read the "Afterword" everyone. It says a lot and says it well.

And I think we are about ready to move on? To bigger and better things, said she, hopefully.

I think I agree, between a 7 or a 8 to rate this book.

I will find the discussion on Pears....Willow Tree. I hope it arrives for the week end reading.

I find it very hard to read more than one book at a time. maybe I get so engrossed in one that it is hard for me to switch gears.

I have gone to the site of Pears, what a great book that seems to be. and a first one too. Very insightful and interesting. I loved the old world way of cooking and the gathering of the ladies in the kitchens and the men( or lack there of in this book) in the living room or on the front porch.

Jane

Well, I couldn't be more satisfied...that I read the rest of the essays/stories, if anything, just to get to the Afterward, which I found very moving, even disturbing. Disturbing in that she hit close to home with some of my own wish-it-could-be's.

First, though, a thought or two on the last pieces. In "A Question Answered," Eileen Oliver Mack (Mrs. Mack) is upset because people are forgetting her name. Without spending time trying to decide if this is really a story of her own mental deterioration, just this one thing---people forgetting your name---stands (for me) as one of so many ways that older people are dismissed, left out, not counted. It wasn't that many years ago that I realized that young waiters/waitresses and grocery clerks began to look at me in a different way. They were looking but not connecting. I remember joking with someone close to my mid-life age in line at a grocery store, only to look up to see a grocery clerk looking at us with impatience and what I can only think of as distance.

Sometimes I pull a dirty trick if I'm in a crunch and it's crucial that someone wake up and connect with me (such as a nurse who is not paying attention to something that could be dangerous for me---or during a business arrangement when I realize that I've been discounted/talked down to because I'm in a wheelchair). I insist that they call me Dr. Gregory. Now, what a sad state of affairs this is because even when I had patients, I insisted on them using my first name (I'm a true feminist and want egalitarian relationships everywhere--even in our round table discussion here.) But, sometimes, when I'm angry at someone's glazed over eyes--as if they don't see me--I use whatever I have to to be seen.

"Diplomatic, Retired"...wow, I suppose this revolves around guilt and shame over his treacherous (murderous?) activities---the tears on his face at the end. I wonder if the woman listening to him (who is missing her husband at the mental institution) is the one that he had "taken care of." This reads like Hitchcock.

Mrs. Teeters' Tomato Jar. Oh, yes, I agree with both of you. This is the best of the last stories. I actually got goosebumps at the thought of the jar's being left right there in the desert sun after her last served meal of thick tomato soup and crumbled biscuits. Left there so long it turned violet. I have a thing for old anything, but especially the idea of place. An old building, where I can imagine the goings on a hundred, two hundred years ago. I enjoyed how she told the story, too, with only a few facts and the rest imagination.

"A Kitchen Allegory". Oh, God, this hits too close to home. All the times that my mother wanted so badly to feed us, to just see us, and not understanding how hard that was, is.

"A Delayed Meeting." This may be her most complex story, touching on very layered issues of family differences, difficulties. (Son-in-law hates her cheerfulness.) To some extent, we all have these negotiations of who likes who, who connects with who in a family. A very personal message from the author comes through of loneliness, even betrayal. I read the ending as the death of her and her son-in-law in the fire---to be joined in heaven by the daughter later. The author's wish, maybe? That these differences will all work out in heaven? I feel so crunched for time, wish we could spend a while on just this story---but I do want to hear from both of you on your impressions of this one, though.

"Notes on a Necessary Pact" What..Is..This? She lost me somewhere in the middle, or I just gave up. The one small part that did resonate, and deeply: IV. The Question. The question is what you so want to ask someone who in minutes will be gone from you forever, but for good/terrible reasons, you don't ask. This is so well written. It's a plea for us to ask our questions NOW. To understand how fleeting this short flame of life is. Know each other, the author begs us.

AFTERWARD

Thank you, Jeryn and Jane, for nudging me forward to this. It was worth going through these not-as-appreciated stories at the end. Some of her predictions in the Afterward did not come true for "end of the century"--communal bathing, all babies cared for by the state, ghetto-small housing----in fact, there has been a surge to leave "city" life and to recapture some of the forgotten, slower ways of "country life," a return to "country" decor and handmade crafts (quilts, etc.). (She published this in 1983--at the height of the "me" '80's.)

However, I think most of what she wrote is still on target. The worst of it, she says, is..."Who has children who accept not only their necessary parents but their grandparents as an intrinsic part of life?" Her thoughts on the housing changes at the close of WWII is interesting, and I don't know enough to agree or disagree with her theory. I'm sure other factors are involved, too. Mobility of the American family is a big factor. The car. Our highway system. People left home and kept leaving home, all of them searching for a better life, a better job, another new start??? So many things.

All in all, I thoroughly liked about half of the stories in this book, but for some reason, I'm very satisfied with the whole reading experience. I've read that people who only read novels or one-subject non-fiction are really missing some excellent writing and I guess that includes me. I have short story collections on my shelves that have never been opened. Maybe I'll go hunt down one of them to put in my to-read stack.

The next to last paragraph in the Afterward was worth reading the whole book to get to. It nearly broke my heart...that she would have rubbed oil on her grandmother if she'd been asked...and she would let a child ask HER now, "if there were one nearby." So, maybe she has written this book to a daughter or two, to the grandchildren who are not nearby, or to their children of the future who may eventually get the point. It makes me want to call some people.

Well, I am finished with this book. I read the Afterward and it gave me goosebumps too. I think I enjoyed this book a lot. I had my favorites. One was"Mrs.Teeters Tomato Jar", I loved the detail of the color of the jar and the surrounding sands. I have visited the desert so I can picture the sands and that jar just barely sticking up so one can find it after all the years it had been hidden in the sand.

'Diplomatic, Retired." I agree that maybe this was the young lady he had "taken care of" in his past. No wonder he had tears running down his face. He had enough to be sorry for, to be sure.

"A Kitchen Allegory." This sure does hit home with me too. I have had famly who would cook to have us over just to have someone young and active around.

"A Delayled Meeting." I had to go back and reread this one again. I think she and her son in law are dead and her daughter was taken in the ambulance.Alice was truly a misplaced person. she had only her daughter and her son in law and she was a very lonely needy person. Needey in the way the older become when they are alone so much. needing company and some one to talk to.

"Notes on a Necessary Pact.: well, seems to me she is going back and hitting the high spots of her stories.. right? or wrong? She was asking the Question of what do you want from life and did you get it.maybe?

Again this says what I tell my childern in regards to their dad. He is dying of cancer, so say what you need to say NOW do not have regrets later because you had a hard time saying the words. If you can't say them, write to him. but, Say it NOW.This book has made me even more aware of how short time is and how fast it goes.

I have really enjoyed this first book in the group. I Thank You all for putting up with this Hillibillie. You make my days so much better.

I am going to start Pears in a Willow Tree tonight. it arrived this afternoon. I went to the site on here and it is going to be a great book, one I will not want to end I think. Books become my friends, I do not want them to end, they need to be here and talk to me and let me know what is going on in their lives more and more.

Until We meet again.

Jane

Well, it was a real pleasure discussing this book with the two of you. Two special ladies. What a trio we made! A doctor with a gift of literary analysis, a hillbillie with a mission, and an artist with attitude! Well, it was fun. And I just knew you both would like the Afterword. Pithy. Poignant. As Betty says, worth the book to get to it.

We shall meet again.

A doctor with a gift of literary analysis, a hillbillie with a mission, and an artist with attitude! Well, it was fun.

This was some mixture. and I wish I knew what mission I am on.. To learn and read and understand I think.. maybe to write someday. oh, I should live so long.

If an author has to feel passionate about every word they write, how do they survive it? I has to take a big piece of you each time you let a book go.. to say it is finished.

I too, have enjoyed knowing you ladies. Was a real treat to be indroduced to you via the internet. Lets do meet again soon.

Jane

Jane, dear... I'm sure we'll meet often discussing other books in other "folders". I notice you are already active in the Pears...Willow Tree discussion! I'm lurking there, trying to decide if I want to read the book, or just "listen."

I interpreted your devoted care of your mother and of your husband as your "mission". May it reward you and not be a "mission impossible." Which is what I called our rescue of my parents when they grew old and ill and had to be moved lock, stock, and barrel from San Diego, CA back to Columbus, Ohio! Later that year [1987], they both died--in the SAME week but of different, unrelated illnesses. So I have GREAT sympathy for what you must be going through.

Jane---may I ever so lovingly disagree with you on the completion of a book "taking a piece of you" and how hard it is to say goodbye to it. I learned a while back that the hardest goodbyes happen when you don't want to give up something. Someone suggested to me that I just take it along with me when I leave....as part of who I am. So, now I think of the experience....in this case, a book....being part of me, that I don't leave it behind. Betty

Well I never could catch up to y'all - I have a different take on what I have read so far and will share tomorrow night at least what my take is on what I have read. I'm here in SC and just got to my daughter's about 2 hours ago. I was without email and access to the net since yesterday morning. When I called Netcom/Nescape something about fiber optics being cut by some earth moving project that prevented most of Texas and Lousiana from having access thru Netcom/Netscape.

Then I really thought I would read and catch up on the plane - well all these trips over and this time I sit next to the most facinating young man that is half Japanese and half Italian. He had visited Japan, his mother's homeland this last summer. Just facinating - and on the flight from Atlanta to Greenville sat between two guys very pro Clemson - one a prof in the Bio engineering dept who was a part of a nationaly acclaimed grant that created the artificial hip. Also, a young man graduate in computer engineering 2 years back. Needless to say no reading.

Would like to share my can of worms and tomorrow night my daughter will be out of town and the boys will be a bed.

Oh goody Barbara! Another county to hear from!! I am looking forward to your "take" on this little book. What luck you had in your travels to be seated next to such interesting people! I always seem to get a bore or someone who wants to just read as much as I do! Hahahaha!

Oh Betty, that is just the sort of thing I've been saying! You CAN take it with you!! You take your whole self with you! Leaving only the memories--which may or may not be at all like what you hope!

Good Evening ladies.

And I agree that I never forget a book that I have read. It becomes a part of me forever and colors my future and how I relate to other from that day on.

But, I meant if you author a book it must be very hard to send it out into the world, much like it is your childern.

And thank you so much for explaining my mission. I agree that is one I will complete with love and devotion.. I have days when I think I can't do this one more day alone but I do and I will.

We went to Beckly Wv to the VA today. The turnpike is beautiful. Trees are turning and the colors are something to see. Oranges, Reds Yellows and Rust with some greens thrown in. I love this state for all its beauty.

I left my book home by mistake to day and I was lost. the one I had in the Durango I had finished .. so I have to replinsh my supply of in case reading ..in case I forget the one I am reading at the time..

Love to all Jane

Well here goes - I have only completed the first 6 stories and so far I am feeling rather annoyed with MFK Fisher. If age is her sister so far all those of a 'certain age' are described as 'less then' - more as someone to invoke feelings of compassion. Even the grand accomplishment for Mme. Duval is written in a way that is judging her and MFK is not approvoing of her use of energy. There are no powerful Sister Age characters. And even the voice that I assume is the voice of MFK is not powerful, much to my real uncomfort. I realize we are reading about life in the 1940s through early 1960s and maybe that is the problem for me, that I do not like to revisit this time when woman had so little power to take care of themselves and their children.

I would like to share the sentences that popped out at me - my impressions that gave me so many uncomfortable feelings.

Moment of Wisdom I realize this is written from the eyes of a child but the friend of the Grandmother, now deceased, is descriped as:

His voice is thin...His hands were too shaky and weak to open his satchel...said goodbye in a very gentle voice, and walked back down the long driveway to the county road and then south, thinking God knows what hopeless thoughts...the tiny old man, dry as a ditch weed, was past all that...walk slowly out to the road and turn down past the ditches and stop for a moment b a scraggly rosebush. And the feeling that sums up the story is:
If I could only give him something, I think. If I could tell him something true.

In one breath sounds like she wishes she could live up to the old man's recognition of beauty and his wisdom to continue regardless of age to value bearty in the ditches of life but, also sounds condencending, like she must nurture or take care of this poor pathetic frail old man. I guess the use of youth to foil wisdom was saying more to me that MFK was more comfortable with youth then Sister Age. This may have to do with my own feelings that I am very comfortable with Sister Age and shake my head often as I observe young adults wasting their time and investing their feelings on the crass. This story seems to be sending the message; become frail and marginal and then we can influence the young to notice the wisdom of acknowledging the beauty of this world.

Answer in the Affirmative!!!???? She let him make love to her!!!!???? Come on - can you just picture the reverse. Suppose a woman came into a home and inappropriatly touched a man present in his own home - or, could you just imagine this happening to you or your daughter - shoot. Now as a symbol of age touching youth and then revisiting when middle aged while visiting a mother who had also been touched by age, OK - but I would be more comfortable with another analagy then a man touching, without verbal permission, the body of a girl as a titilating sexual act. This sculpture language reminded me of how it was alright to provocetivly discuss womans bodies and appear to be covering the sexual overtones by using artistic references. And then she writes:

standing passively there before my mother...I felt strong and fresh

standing passively...felt strong?? OK, I could expect to read that line of thinking from a male author but a female author, saying passivity made her female character feel strong and fresh - good grief, no wonder we were opened to so much abuse.

Then after being blown away with disgust I read in the next The Weather Within this little marvel!

I loathed a man who before and after almost every meal would stop and lightly fondle them, murmuring of his own daughter in a subtly lascivious and self-rightous way<God help the daughter,if God was ever around or cared>...with them I held my breath. Perhaps my revolt was deeper than theirs-or, at least, wearier-for I could see a thousand such impositions in the years ahead of them, whereas for them it was probably the first time they had ever had to sit politely throught such behavior because they were in a public room and would not kick or spit.

This lack of power to protect your own children takes all the energy out of me and my tears well but, tears of rage not untaped wisdom.

This story continues to explore her lack of power as she is really incompetent in her efforts to affectively help the dying old lady and resorts to disparreging racist remarks about the Doctor.

Again, I see little joy, respect, admiration for age or death as she protects her children from knowing or participating in the grief process that goes with loss. Again, the remaining old lady is written about as if she is incompetent and helpless to handle the emergency of her sick and dying friend much less, the death and burial of her friend. If age is a sister then I was expecting more filiel affection shown for the characters of age.

In The Unswept Emptiness I also identified with the solitude years. Not because my husband was away but these were the years (the 50s) when you were the good corperate wife, silently interviewed before every promotion and since I was married to a development engineer he worked 6 days and nights leaving the house at 7: in the morning and returning at about 11: at night. So zonked on Saturday he veged in front of the TV and on Saturday slept and slept as I took the children to this or that event, mostly afternoon concerts at U of K. When they were babies I too remember being in a fog and not remembering who and what. And in this story I did like the way the loss of ability and business was captured as an outcome of age. Liked the symbolism of the snow white mountain in the distance but why the weeping? And, she only can indentify her strength and happiness, being well-beloved as, youth in comparison to sister age.

The whole thing inAnother Love Story made no sense to me at all. Why could he only offer to help her children by marrying her? And we only learn to be more capable or identify our strength by being scared. Again, why would you let someone have so much control that you wouldn't protest in a scary situation.

Whoops - gotta go, boys are needing lunch and the morning has gone - will finish my thoughts later. I realize, Fisher is a well known writer and this was written during a time when woman 'put up' with a lot of this and age was not respected either. So my comments may be more about the times and that is getting in the way of my enjoying these stories. She does put her thoughts down crisply and cleanly - I do like her ability to write a story with visual impact.

Now cut out all that shyness, Barbara, and tell us how you REALLY feel. (As Ginny would say....AhaHaHaHaHa.)

Do you have any idea how much I love your voice? Here I am over in my corner, alternately trying to modulate my impatience with various books, even participants (none here or none lately), then feeling calmer and trying to ferret out the good stuff from our readings (for the moment not letting anything dampen my spirit), then POW, something will hit me full in the face and I CANNOT be quiet about it, which always leads to feeling alone out there on a long, thin, floppy branch. But not when you're around. Betty

Amen, Betty! I think our more verbally affluent Barbara has come right down to it. Now I know why I was not much impressed with this little book taken as a whole. Left me feeling cheated. Sister Age indeed! I had greater expectations from such a title than to see Age denigrated, kicked around, and laughed at! NOT what one hopes for from such a title...