I'm in! May I clap the erasers? Cathie

Sign me up. I used to teach high school English and I was an insurance company corporate trainer in retirement plans and investment basics for a number of years. I love Frank McCourt and would like to see what he has to say about teaching.

Ginny,

Your story made me laugh. My first laugh for this Monday morning. I did read the first few lines of "Teacher Man" on Amazon. I loved it. I am in the ring refusing to be intimidated by all the schoolteachers and professors surrounding me here.

I have been a student and a mother of students and a husband of a student. I can hardly remember yesterday. I hope to remember someone or something to add to the discussion. You know my memory. It's about as long as a six inch ruler.

I love the comments of Scootz and Marni in discussions too. I know when the others gather this will make another memorable discussion. I don't want to miss it. I did read "Up the Downstair Case" years ago. I loved it. I started "Angela's Ashes." I cried. I had to stop reading. I will definitely finish it.

Will I get the chance to learn what teacher's talk about in the teacher's lounge??? My lips are

I always said I wanted to write a book once I stopped teaching. I would call it PERSPECTIVE. I taught school for 12 years and had no children of my own. I quit when I had my son and then "I" was on the other side of that conference table! What a difference!! You might be interested to know that those weeks of conferences were the absolute worst for many of us. Extremely stressful indeed, walking on eggshells, being tactful, while needing to be truthful. A real tightrope walk.

Oh, yeah, I could tell you what teachers talk about in the lounge. They're no different than everyone else and we shouldn't expect them to be. I'm puzzled as to why we do expect that. These days, they do seem to be having trouble staying away (sexually) from their students.

Scootz,

That's a story in itself. I hear so much about that sort of thing happening. I don't remember teachers having intimate relationships with their students in earlier days. Maybe the explanation is that our society is more open about what happens in the classroom or out of the classroom.

When I grew up, I didn't think of schoolteachers as like everybody else. I thought my teachers lived in a special world apart from my world. I never thought of my teacher as raking leaves, worrying about her children as students. I just never gave teachers a "real" life. They were so special to me. It's like they drove off from school and lived on another planet.

I don't know if children today think of their teachers in that "special" way. Are our children and grandchildren more enlightened and think an adult is just an adult going to work like every body else?

They're holding Teacher Man for me at the library. Can't wait.

I'm a former teacher, my mother was a teacher, my aunt was a teacher, We had teacher talk every night at the dinner table -- my poor uncle, who was not a teacher.

Lots of tales, but first I remember my nephews when they were very small and learned that Nana and Aunt Vi were teachers -- "but but but YOU'RE PEOPLE!!!"

Hats, come to the Teachers' Lounge at lunchtime. You'll probably find one lone blushing male staff member beating a hasty retreat.

I have been trying to read the book but have not been successful at reading it yet. But who knows maybe I will read it before the discussion. My Dr son and his wife both loved the book. They were amazed when I said I was trying to get through it.

Joan Grimes

I'll be here, Ginny. I've been waiting for this as I loved the book.

I'm on the WL at the library for one of their two copies. [I spent a total of some 36 years as a teacher/librarian in public schools/public university so am anxious to see McCourt's experiences.] I also remember vividly my one or two outstanding teachers from high school...and one who was a disgrace to the profession...what a lazy, arrogant man he was...even to high school juniors!

jane

Count me in!
I just jumped to a used-book link and ordered a copy. The paperback will not be out in time, I just found out, so ordered a hardback.
I taught at various high school and college levels for many years, so I might have some
war stories to add to the ragout!
Ginny ~ your post about the teacher's conference really brought back memories. Nothing as unplanned as that ever happened to me, but I sure was nervous going to "parent" conferences for almost 20 years, as my oldest and youngest daughters are ten years apart in age.
Boy, was I glad when my "baby" got to 12th grade and those were over!

Since I've already read Teacher Man, I'd love to find out what others think of the book. I've already read Frank McCourt's first book (Angela's Ashes), but haven't read 'Tis yet.

I went to school to be a teacher and taught for three years in grammar school before starting my family. It's become such a difficult position these days with all the conflict going on in the schools.

Looking forward to reading what others thought of Teacher Man.

Nancy

Hello, I'm new to Seniornet and looking forward to joining the discussion. I am not a teacher, but I do private tutoring and have done some training. And of course, I've had many teachers over the years.

Hi Ginny,The book is on the piano bench waiting to be opened. I taught for 34 years and hope to be able to join in occassionally. My schedule since retirement is NOT 7;50 am until 3:45 pm.,but,thankfully, rather erratic. Ell

Just wanted to say hello and welocme you as a newbie. I'm rather new myself. Just completed my first book group here and it was awesome. Hope to get to know you better in this group.

Cathie

Have read Angela's Ashes, but not Teacher Man, so am looking forward to it. McCourt did a wonderful job in Ashes, and I'm curious to see how he describes his experiences as a teacher. Hope it isn't quite as bleak as Ashes was.

I've never taught, but certainly have opinions about how children should be taught, and spent much time teaching my own children in an informal way as they were growing up. I had two OUTSTANDING teachers, one I adored, and one I hated but who taught me more than I can ever say.

Both teachers were in grammar school when we lived in Canada. I was an immigrant kid and couldn't speak a single word of English, and even though I was supposed to be in third grade, I was put back into second grade which had a teacher who spoke a tiny bit of German, so she could help me when I got totally lost. After I mastered the language I jumped from second grade into fifth and caught up again with my age group.

Anyhow, this was shortly after WWII and emotions were still running very high about the war. My second-grade teacher was Jewish and she had every reason not to be helpful to me and my brother (which is something I did not realize at the time). But she turned out to be one of my personal angels. While I struggled with the language she discovered I had artistic talent, so she would invite me to do art work and special projects on the side blackboard while I just listened and absorbed, with individual help from her in the little bit of German she knew when I'd get stuck. She encouraged my artistic side and thus integrated me into the social life of the school, and praised me endlessly. She was never impatient with us, was enthusiastic about teaching, and understood children and their fragile self-images, and she knew how to keep discipline in her classrooms without being dictatorial.

She was a single woman, never married, with a withered right hand, who had to learn to do everything over again with her left hand, including drawing. She would have special tea parties at her home for those girls in her class who were good students, with gorgeous china cups and English scones, We felt so special and lady-like, and I was always invited.

I loved her, and we corresponded for years, until the day she passed away. She traveled extensively, and since she was an artist herself, she made sketches of most of the places she visited and sent them to me, while I described my life as a wife and mother and a reader of books. I have her sketches to this day and treasure them, and to this day I keep her in my prayers as one of those special people who was incredibly kind and encouraging to me when she didn't have to be---an angel in disguise.

The other teacher was an English teacher, also in Canada, but in the 5th grade. She was "veddy veddy" British and had a real problem with a shy little German girl in her classroom. She was sometimes ultra-derogatory, at one point, when I made some sort of minor error, even saying to me in front of the whole class, "You Germans started all the trouble over there and now you're here starting trouble again". I remember breaking into sobs, pushing her aside as she tried to stop me, and running all the way home to fling myself into my mother's arms with my broken heart, not really understanding why she didn't like me. My mother went to see the principal about it, and he apologized on her behalf. She must have been given a lecture about her behavior because she never hassled me again, but we never liked each other. The feeling was mutual.

But here is the amazing part: Her enthusiasm for the English language was so wonderful and so catching, and she taught so well, that in fifth grade I not only learned about Shakespeare and Sir Walter Scott and other English authors, but also how to diagram any sentence and use correct grammar, and she taught handwriting that was clear and legible. We may never have liked each other, but she was a GREAT TEACHER. She knew how to get her subject across to those of us who were even moderately receptive, and her keen interest in the English language was catching whether one wanted to learn or not.

So when my children had teachers they did not particularly like and complained about them, I would tell them the story about Miss G and me, and explain to them that there are things to be learned even from people one does not particularly care for, and unless the teacher was truly useless or abusive (only in one instance), I made them sit out the semester and deal with it.

There, those are my teacher stories. These two ladies stand out in my mind as the BEST there ever were.

I've never been a teacher, but I did read his first two books and enjoyed them very much and would like to join this discussion.

Sierrarose,

Thank you so much for sharing your stories. Your whole post is very heartfelt and moving.

Oh, the memories ... here is one that does not have to do with book-learning...

In fourth grade, Mrs. D. was a warm and loving teacher.
I was somewhat of the teachers' pet, perhaps.
I remember just before Christmas vacation, she opened a book to read to us and could not "go on" ....
It was some book I can't exactly remember, maybe "The Little Angel"
She asked me to do the reading that day.

Months later, we (I did, by asking, I guess) found out she had lost a baby a few years earlier... (tears here) ...
That may have been the first time in my (little) life that I found out that adults did not have
total control of their lives. Or maybe her mourning just taught me what a special woman she was.

I remember my kindergarten teacher. When the girls came into the classroom, she always noticed our dresses. I remember the word "stunning." I had never heard that word. I knew it meant my dress was especially lovely. Unfortunately, I can still see her face. I can't remember her name. I can remember our group photograph too. She was a very kind lady. I think she was gifted to teach small children. This is because she made us feel so special.

I remember my kindergarten teacher's name. It was Mrs. Coin. If I had forgotten her name, I would have felt terrible guilt.

Thanks for the welcome Ginny and sorry to hear about your teacher story. I hear this all too often and coincidentally, I tutor math. Most of my students are in high school, but I do get adults going back to college. Many of them have had a bad experience in math and are convinced they aren’t able to do math, which is never true. They just didn’t learn the skills. I could go on and on about this subject, so I will stop for now.

Hello Cathie and thank you for the welcome. I’m glad to know someone else who is relatively new. Your enthusiasm about the book discussion is inspiring!

My favorite teacher was not in any classroom, but lived next door when I was growing up in the Chicago area. She organized hikes, canoe trips and horseback riding for the kids in the neighborhood. Before that, my only exposure to these types of activities was in books. She taught me to sew and let me use her sewing machine. She engaged us in craft projects, cooking, and showed us how to change diapers on a baby. I would not have had any of these experiences until I was much older if it had not been for this neighbor. She was truly an angel in my life.

I requested the book from the library and hope to have it soon.

I love reading your memories and the memories of the other posters. My first horror story, maybe the worse one, it happened in third grade. I couldn't catch on to making my "W" look beautiful in cursive writing. This one day my third grade teacher, Mrs. Weinrach, came down my aisle and stopped at my desk. It must have been the worse "W" she had ever seen in her teaching life. While bent over my paper with my pencil, trying very hard I thought, she slammed me on my back. WoW! It was so painful. Tears immediately came to my eyes. Maybe I was embarrassed too. After all, all of my classmates sat at their desks. When she gave me the open slap on the back, other heads lifted. I became the main focus. In my mind, I thought their "W's" must have been totally perfect. That "W" ruined my whole day and maybe the rest of the week too.

I can't remember anything else about Mrs. Weinrach accept the "W" fiasco. I think after that experience she treated me nicely. She promoted me to fourth grade. Still, the awful day of the "W" lives in my head like an elephant.

Ginny,

Somewhere in your post you made me laugh. I did, thanks to Mrs. Weinrach, I guess, learn to write a great "W." It's odd I couldn't make that "W." I loved reading and writing. I hated, hated arithmetic. Like you, I loved the times table. I may forget everything else but I can remember my times table.

Geometry??? Oh horrible! I only remember the Isosceles Triange. I know it has two equal sides. That is all I got out of Geometry. My teacher kept blinking. He wore contact lenses. I don't know if they were hurting him or falling out. All day he fiddled with those contact lenses. The class was a riot. No one could stop giggling under their sleeve. I can't remember his name.

My fourth grade teacher was a man who played the guitar. I had a crush on him, so I made all sorts of efforts to impress him. He was so accepting of all his students.

The other teacher I remember is my chemistry teacher in high school - also a man. He was gentle, but firm. He understood his students and tried to convey his love of chemistry to them. I never did well, but I've never forgotten Mr. Gilmore.

I feel so bad when I read of the literacy problem we're facing these days. I've always wanted to join Literacy Volunteers and help these people learn to read. Don't have the stamina anymore.

Nancy

Mippy, that must have been "The Littlest Angel." What a sad story. How brave of your teacher to even attempt to read it. I think it shows she cared for her class very much and wanted to share a wonderful story with them, even though it was difficult for her.

Hats, I can sympathize about the "w" and every other letter.

My mother was widowed and went back to teaching when I was 8. Most all of her close friends were teachers, and they came to our house frequently to visit. And of course this meant that my mother knew my elementary school teachers very well. In those days I was just barely passing penmanship, and my mother said, "if you ever got a superior in penmanship I'd stand on my head." So, big mouth told her teacher, and my mother had to live up to her words at the teachers' last day of school get together.

These women, most of them unmarried, cared deeply about their students, and they were always lovely to me. My mother's school was in a district that drew children from the well-to-do and also from the exact opposite spectrum. This was pre-head start days, but the first grade teacher saw a need for many children to have more help. So she and another teacher ran a little school for these needy children in the summer between kindergarten and first grade -- their own time, their own money.

Recently I was reading a biography of a female reporter who in the 50's and 60's had the unusual, for that era, assignment of being a foreign correspondent; the editors of newspapers believed that education was a woman's job; teaching was a career for women and the plum jobs in journalism went to men.

Wasn't that true when we were young? How many male teachers did you have and what did they teach? My only male teacher in high school was for algebra and he frightened me terribly; the whole subject frightened me.

For HS (9-12) I had male teachers for English 10, geometry, algebra, U.S. History, Health, Government, typing, biology, chemistry, English 11, world history, and maybe one or two more that I can't think of at the moment.

jane

Ella ~ It is interesting to look back on whether our teachers were male or female:
In contrast to Jane, in HS (10-12) I had male teachers for geometry, algebra, Government, biology, and world history; the math teachers were among the best in the school;
chemistry was taught by a terrific woman, who was a role model for me, as I considered becoming a scientist or a doctor (scientist prevailed).
I had women for all my English classes, although I think there were men in that department.
I had women for French and other misc. subjects.
My most influential teacher was Mr. F, the band and orchestra director; I spent most of my spare time
in HS upstairs in the band room with my best friends. Marching band was my "sport" in HS.

In the early 60s my English teacher, Mr. Pelton asked us to write an essay on the pros and cons of wives working outside of the home. Since this discussion was going on at my house as well as many of my friend's houses I was well versed on the subject and wrote my essay in favor of housewives returning to the work place. I found out that Mr. Pelton's wife wanted to go back to work and that's why he gave the assignment and I felt certain that since I'd taken her position that I was going to flunk English and have to repeat it during summer in order to graduate. Well, to make short story even shorter, not only did Mr. Pelton give me an A+ on my essay, but he said that it was my essay that convinced him that his wife should return to the work place. He also told me that I had the ability to write anything I wanted. It was the first time that anyone had praised me for my craft and I took it to heart and as they say the rest is history.

Hello everyone,

I've been reading all the wonderful posts here and thought I'd chime in since I've had teachers, had children who had them, have a daughter who is one, and am one myself. O, and my father was a teacher. And my mother briefly--math.

So, the family has seen teaching from just about every perspective.

I had a math teacher in Jr. High (9th grade), Mr. T--that was what we officially called him. His last name was Trefettheren or something like that, but he made it easy and instructed us to call him Mr. T. He was very popular as in "You got Mr. T for math? You're lucky!"

Mr. T was the first teacher I ever had who was physically intimidating. I found what he did funny, but there may have been others in the class who were scared.

Mr. T frequently (once or twice a class) threw eraser or chalk at a student (mostly boys) who didn't get an answer. Some of them caught the eraser but none dared throw it back. He was a large man and had some kind of limp but an eagle eye. During that whole year, he never missed his target, never missed hitting said student on the chest, never hurt a student. And it did set the whole class laughing. He taught Algebra which I came to love.

He'd probably be incarcerated now for child abuse.

My very first teacher--kindergarten--was Miss Polkinghorn. She had been teaching about 100 years when I got her (white hair, back in a neat bun) and was superb with little ones. We all loved her.

~Maryal

Hats, did you ever consider that your teacher was so unreasonable about your "Ws" because her last name started with that letter? Sort of a hypersensitivity about seeing it mutilated? (just kidding )

I don't think I ever had any really bad teachers. Most of them were just average, just like in any other job. Even most doctors are average. Every once in a while a brilliant one comes along, and he/she is a treasure. Each of my children did have one really BAD teacher, and I took them out of those classes.

I really do not understand why it so often happens these days that teachers get sexually involved with students. To me that is the ultimate betrayal of a child. Even if the child is flirtatious because of a crush, they have to feel safe in practicing their budding sexuality without being invaded by a responsible adult. All the male teachers I had knew how to handle that and drew a firm boundary no matter how "cute" we thought he was or how flirtatious the girls were.

But I think teachers have a harder time these days than they ever did before. There is so much lack of discipline in the home, poor manners, and disrespect for authority that I wonder how any of them can keep any sort of order in a classroom. Add to that one grammar school teacher I know who had so many immigrant children in her classes (eleven different languages in one class alone) that I have no idea how she taught anything at all.

Sierrarose, All of these years and I never made the connection. Your excused, Mrs. Weinrach. That is very interesting.

I can't recall any of my grade school teachers really. I had both good and bad ones in high school. The bad ones were bad because they had no control over the class and so nothing got done, the kids took advantage, etc.,etc.

I had four years of French and just adored my French teacher, though she was very stern. Miss Culhane, her name was. After French I, she allowed NO ENGLISH in class. Boy oh boy, you learned how to speak fast- and well, too. We all had to do an oral presentation on a French artist- totally speaking in French. I did Toulouse Lautrec and I still recall details of his life.

I had several English teachers that I adored- Miss Santoro, Mr. Curtin, Mr. McGrath. I loved English so much that I would have been very unhappy with a poor teacher. Luckily, that never happened.

In college, I can only recall fond feelings about a few. One was my Kiddy Lit professor . She was elderly, but so sweet and so enthusiastic. We all had to make a diorama of a famous nursery rhyme and present it to the class. Some of the guys did very funny ones.

I had a few sociology profs that I liked very well and who really made the class interesting.

I've been thinking about this in terms of having been the teacher. I did not enjoy teaching. I would call myself an introvert, not an extrovert, even though I love talking and interacting with people. Teaching was not something I was naturally comfortable with. I think I was born in the wrong era. I went into the field because I was taught that there were only several careers for a woman. Teaching seemed the most palatable.

I was not born to be a teacher. I think you have to be born to be a teacher. Some people are just naturally gifted that way - are gregarious, creative, are self-confident, enjoy kids, think out of the box.

I was always nervous speaking in front of people and I always lacked self-confidence. I always felt terrible if I didn't know the answer to a student's question. I always felt exhausted at the end of the day. And I hated correcting papers. Oh, that was so boring! Night after night. I tried to find another job and couldn't get one. I taught for 7 years. My students probably learned, but I'm sure I didn't light anyone's fire.

Eventually, I got a job as a case manager handling the administration of group retirement plans for an insurance company. It was right up my alley. Someone else might have hated it. But I found I loved doing research, solving account problems, finding answers, and helping people on the phone. I became manager of a wonderful group handling 401(k) plans. I loved it!

Funny how things work out. I ended up combining teaching and my work with retirement plans. I was offered a job designing online courses in retirement plans and investment basics. It was the best job I ever had. Fun! It utilized my special skills and my love of research and I could be creative and fun without putting on a performance in the line of fire.

There are so many people out there who land in a job by chance or necessity. So many people are in the wrong job and are stuck in a rut. Wouldn't it be so wonderful if we all found a job that was just perfect for our personalities and skills!

This came in an email this morning - it's interesting to think about.

"What would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?" - Unknown

I FINALLY was able to get Teacher Man @ our library. After having read his Angela's Ashes and loved it was anxious to read this one. Teacher Man deals almost exclusively w/his years of teaching and does not delve into his family life, which I would have liked to know about. My daughter's friend (we are in Louisiana) is a displaced New Yorker who was taught by McCourt at Stuyvesant High in N.Y., which was (or is) at the TOP of the educational ladder. I know this friend is VERY educated (lawyer) but moved down South because he just did not wish to have his children reared in N. Y. JOY

Marni, I liked your story. It's a good reminder that when I feel stuck there are so many options out there. And interesting that the case manager job was a stepping stone to the work you most enjoyed! Sometimes I wait for something that looks ideal, rather than considering it just another step along the path.

Ginny, Being new to the group, I'm not sure how this discussion works. Will we start the discussion on July 1 as if most people have read the entire book or will the discussion be in segments?

Hi, Joy! Welcome....and Welcome to Caren, too.

Ginny's out and about running around for some weekend entertaining that she's doing, so I'll try to answer your question until she gets here.

Caren: The normal procedure here is to begin the actual discussion of the book on the date stated..i.e., July 1 for Teacher Man . Ginny will put up a discussion schedule...and those are the pages and/or chapters that will be discussed, usually in one week segments. You can, of course, read the entire book or read along with the discussion schedule, but we try to limit what's discussed within a stated timeframe to the chapters/pages that will be announced in advance in the header of the discussion.

I hope that helps and answers your question.

jane

Welcome, Welcome Deems!!! I missed your post, this software does that. Everybody remember PRINTER FRIENDLY in the top right hand of your page, click on it and you can see better the last 100 or so posts in happy conversation! Welcome!!!!!!!!

Eraser throwing is a lot better than slapping. I have a feeling tho you are right and none of this happens today, we were somewhat harshly treated in "the old days," but nothing like the famous One Room Schoolhouses, have you all read about THOSE? Maybe we should get come historical perspective here on Eduction thru the years!

Welcome!

Welcome Joy! We are delighted to see you here also! Would you mind contacting your friend and asking her to ask her daughter what it really was like to be in one of his classes? He's presenting quite a startling innovative approach, will you ask how it was received? Welcome!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Jane for helping out yesterday, the giant grill which is my husband's birthday present for our family gathering tomorrow took ages to get ON the truck where it still resides till our children can get it off. Who KNEW they had a half day on Fridays? Who KNEW?

hahah Hats, you're going to have to get a scanner now and show us your W! Mine looks like two capital U's not a problem, is yours all spiky? Show us your W (mail it to me) and I'll show you all my F, and we will really go back down memory lane! Hahaha (It IS memory lane for me, I almost never write anything in hand anymore).

I think we need a Times Table Club, I don’t think they teach it any more, can you imagine? What is wrong with it?

Alberlaine, (me too with the Chemistry, and the teacher's passion for it, see below) Mippy, (so poignant) Pedln, (hahaa your mother had to stand on her head, love it) , Scrawler and Mr. Pelton, wonderful story, Deems and the original Mr. T, haahaa, Scootz with your French Connection, it's amazing how much we remember when challenged!

We had native French teachers and one of them absolutely hated me, I took 4 years of high school French but I have to give the woman credit. When I do go to France I CAN make myself understood, it's amazing what pops out, I don't care how many language tapes you take. The Parisians want you to speak French and so you have to stumble thru it, pitifully but she has actually helped me on several occasions when, to my great shock I found qu'est-ce que c'est que cela boiling out, but pronounced colloquially, which did get their respectful attention, which does help. Yet I did not admire French, can't imagine Jacqueline Kennedy preferring it in her old age, but she must have been MUCH more fluent than I could ever dream of, probably had French nannies or something. I found the further you went INTO French (I minored in it) the worse and more illogical it got. The Italians are much more laid back.

Marni what a neat post, I think your talents are under utilized here on SN ,we must do something about that!

And thank you for your memories of teachers and for raising the issue, Ella, of male teachers in the classroom. I don't believe we had one male teacher in any class I had in high school. If we did I don't remember one. I do remember a Chemistry teacher tho, she had been transferred to the area from Berkeley where she was on the faculty, a rare PhD in the high school classroom in those days, when her husband, a research scientist, took a post nearby. She taught us one semester of organic and one of inorganic chemistry. The poor woman is probably still talking about her experience. I mean, on my part you talk about slap and go, I had no earthly idea at ALL what she was saying. None. Absolutely zero. I admired her passion for organic chemistry, but the rest of the course was an absolute disaster. I guess she had to grade on a curve. It was like being in a foggy dream.

And then I had an American History teacher, bless her heart. So dull, so boring, quite elderly, we thought she was crazy. Now with hindsight of being an adult it almost makes me cry. She would send Christmas cards to herself and array them on the mantle. She told us this. I don't recall if I ever sent her one, myself. Being a selfish twit of a teenager I expect I did not, I thought it odd. Shame on me, bless her heart. I hope somebody did.

So many times PERSONALITY and EGO enters the classroom in the guise of the instructor, is that all it's really about? Look at what we are remembering?

I'll save my two BEST TEACHERS of all TIME for later on, right now I'm flooded with remorse over my American History teacher.

Good point SierraRose on the current wave of teacher/ student sexual encounters, that's unthinkable to me and the recent article on Vili Falaau and Mary Letourneau is somewhat…..offputting for some reason. Yes she looks young, er? So? It's going to be interesting to me to see if that relationship manages a couple of years beyond "young love." What an example for their own children. Golly moses.

A wonderful challenge, Ella, what would you do if you knew you could not fail? I love that. I sometimes wonder what we would also do if we knew we would live to be 200 in good health and mind? I wonder on these things, they would be fun to discuss.

Caren, a super question, and answer from Jane. I've already read it but we'll essentially divide it into quarters and take only the first quarter in the first week for an in-depth look at what he's saying. We need to try (and it's often not easy) to stick to only what he covers in that time.

This is truly a great group assembling and we hope to welcome even more voices and memories: take a seat anywhere and no gum chewing! Haahaha OR do what you want: we're in the New Education now! I'm in the back left on the row near the window, myself!

Now then, what WOULD you do if you knew you could not fail? I'd write the Great American Novel.

Now then, what WOULD you do if you knew you could not fail?

Can it involve Johnny Depp?

Scootz...

I LOVE your sense of humor...hmm...you and Johnny Depp, huh????



jane

For me it would be Tony Hopkins. Especially since Scootz already has Johnny Depp.

Marni, I think we lived parallel lives. I became a teacher because I couldn't stand the sight of blood. Teacher or nurse were the only careers available to women back then. I taught for three years, then had my two children.

When I returned to the workforce, I got a part-time job helping with the payroll at the local YMCA. I learned there that I loved numbers and bookkeeping. I ended up in a business office of a research institute where my career (22 years) began as a payroll clerk, then moved to fund accounting and finally benefits. It was at this last job that I began to hold workshops for the staff, teaching them the basics of investing, saving for retirement and the difference between IRAs and 403(b)s.

In a way, I'm still teaching - I was in charge of a Brownie troop for two years and now have four grandchildren who I try to encourage to read and reason.

Nancy

Nancy: For goodness' sake! We did lead parallel lives! How interesting! Did you teach high school English by any chance?

How did you like teaching investment basics? I had to really research a lot of info for the online courses I designed - like information about bonds. I hadn't really worked much at all with bonds, and then I had to develop an Intro to Bonds course. Bonds are complicated! That was a lot of work, but I learned a lot.

Good for you for encouraging your grandchildren to read and reason!

Marni

I guess I am the only one here who went to school to the Sisters of Providence at "Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility" school. Hahahaha! They were the nuns who all were studying for higher degrees and attending university during the summers to further their knowledge of their subjects.

I had a teacher in freshman year for Health and Safety who let us listen to the World Series(radio, back then) because she loved baseball. Her summer studies focused on genetics and she taught us things about genetics. We had several nuns with higher degrees while I was in high school.

No, they were not into physical punishment on a regular basis. No rulers, no slaps. Verbal abuse and humiliation, that was their style. And, that can be worse than any physical abuse. But the worst that I ever heard was "Ann, you are just like your mother! Always arguing with your teachers!". My mom, myself and my sister all attended the same schools, all taught by the same order of nuns and many times we had the very same teachers, who by the time Mary was in school, were getting pretty crusty.

My favorites in H.S. were the journalism teacher, Sister Mel, who challenged me to write better and hired me to do the humor column for our school paper. The math lady-Sr Virginia Marie who taught algebra 1&2 plus geometry which I loved. The wonderful World History teacher- Sr Marie Virginia, who hardly ever used the book but just floated around the room telling us great stories of the worlds of antiquity and how they work!

I liked most of my teachers but some were really funny! For instance, when in sophomore English Lit, we had a nun who made us pronounce "Jacques" (jocks) as Jakes. She didn't want us giggling over the first but her choice for replacement just set us off. Sister Edith Clare, that's who she was. "Edie Clare"!! And, what were we reading? Something about the French Revolution! Title escapes me. Probably Dickens' Tale of Two Cities??? I don't know anymore!

Having all female teachers who also ran the school, right down to the financial care of it, ordering all the books and supplies, hiring the repair men, scheduling visiting 'wonders' like the lady who played the harp in the Indianspolis Symphony and who wore a gorgeous dress with a very low neckline which, of course, made us all crack up.

All of this empowered the girls who attended St Agnes Academy. And, by this time, my father had died and my mother and I ran our home together. It was a world of females and I liked it!

When I was doing some volunteer work at the college here in Columbus, Dominican College, I used to have lunch with the sisters who taught there, and what a wonderful group they were. Met one nun who had been in China when the Japanese invaded who told the most interesting but terrifying story of their escape just before the soldiers arrived. They just made it out by the skin of their teeth.

Another of the sisters who regularly ate with me, had written a book about the Holy Grail. She said she had a whole new concept of the Grail but wouldn't give it away until she heard from her editor. I wonder if the publisher that she sent it to found it good enough to give to the public. Hmmm, maybe she was the first Dan Brown?? haha!

At this same college was a nun who had something to do with the making of synthetic rubber and another who had studied treatments for polio? There was a math teacher in the college who tried to help us parents who were attempting to understand the basis for new math. This was in 1961 and she was already talking about computers taking over the world!! These women were wonderful examples of what you can do if you don't consider failure! I loved their sharing of so much knowledge. Hey, maybe I should have become one! Tee hee! But, I would have missed being a grandmother! Never!! Greatest job that I have ever had!

have reserved "Teacher Man" and will be reading along with you all. I read "Angela's Ashes" and "'Tis", both of which I enjoyed. He's a great story teller!

Wow! Double Wow!
My book came today, and what was going to be a brief glance turned into a could-not-put-it-down afternoon!
McCourt is sure a wonderful author!
I'm sure everyone is going to enjoy this!

Mippy, that is a "good thing."

Ginny, I have read all of McCourt's books including "Teacher Man." Also read everything written by his brother Malachy (sp?) including a surprisingly scholarly small book on the origin and history of the Irish tune "Danny Boy." (I can't remember its title at the moment.)

I have concluded that I don't have much respect for Frank as a person, but there's something about his writing that keeps me coming back.

Also really liked your vignette about being called in and ordered to sit down at the little desk by your child's teacher.

Rich

No I didn't teach English in high school. I taught English, reading and math in sixth grade for three years. We were grouped in threes to teach. Other teachers taught "my" group science and social studies.

In order to teach about investments I did all sorts of research online (thank goodness for the Web). I also have an associate's degree in accounting, which helped. I never liked bonds either. Mutual funds were my main focus because that's what the staff had in their 403(b)s.

Nancy

I agree about Accounting. It seemed that some liabilities were considered assets, or was it that some assets were considered liabilities????. Everything seemed backwards. Too confusing for my poor brain.

have a wonderful trip! The "American Classical Leage National Conference" sounds very important. When you return, I hope you will tell us about it. While you are gone, I am going to check the library for the book or buy a book at a cheap price. Have a safe trip and hurry back.

If I can get the book in time, would like to join the discussion. Did read McCourts first and couldn't wait for his second. With that book though, I kind of lost respect for him as a person (like Rich7) and really didn't rush to get Teacher Man. But remembering what a good writer he is, will give it a try. Was never a teacher, but had some wonderful and a few awful teachers myself. There was 14 yrs. between our first and last child, so had many years of 'kids' teachers - again some wonderful and a few awful. There has to be a special talent that is inherent in a few people so that they become that special teacher. But then, I wonder if some personalities speak better to some children than others and what would be a remarkable teacher to one child would not be to another?

Yay, my book's in at the library!

Ginny: Have a wonderful time!

I am subscribed, and will be getting my book from the library next week. I will be at least 4 chapters into the book and ready to go as of July 1. I 'scanned' the book on an earlier library visit, and had already planned to read it. I think this is going to be a good one.

Babi

". . .is the sole purpose to impart information? Or to engage the learner in a lifelong pursuit of the subject? Or? What is the actual purpose in any teaching?"

I think imparting information is only partially what a good teacher does. The most important thing for a teacher to impart, in my mind, is teaching children HOW TO THINK LOGICALLY AND ANALYZE, and thereby be able to know where to look for information and how to connect the dots to draw their own conclusions. It is only a very RARE teacher who can actually do that, and the way the educational system is structured makes it difficult even for those teachers who do know how to do that.

But once a child learns HOW TO THINK LOGICALLY AND ANALYZE, there is almost nothing in life that will stymie him or her, and their confidence will grow because they know how to figure things out, whereas if merely learning by rote, they will be puzzled by any situation that doesn't quite fit into the fram of what they learned.

So I believe the time of education should be spent on questioning just about everything (except maybe mathematics), even those things we hold most dear, analyze them and then either decide if they are logical or if they are not. That doesn't mean illogical precepts or beliefs have to be dumped; but we should understand why we hold them.

Wondering now if that is what McCourt teaches. Haven't got the book yet, but have requested it at the library.

Hi Ginny; I am so excited about this discussion. I can't wait to read the book. I read Angela's Ashes and loved it. I cried through it. I taught school for over 25 years. I worked in Elem Ed, Adult Basic Ed., English as a Second Language, and then spent my last 13 years working with seriously disturbed children as a teacher and finally in assessment and consultation. I have had many experiences with the field of education and find this discussion fascinating. I will get the book and read it. I am looking forward to joining the discussion. I expect to learn and be challenged in my thinking. I had a particular teacher that shaped my life at the age of 25. I was a single parent on welfare without even a high school diploma. I lobbied to get accepted in a school program in spite of the fact that I had 4 children, 3 preschool age. That should have disqualified me but the support of a good welfare worked got me in. I was required to take GED classes and there I met a teacher who taught high school English and adult classes in the evening. He took an interest in me and arranged to have me tested. He then became my hero and mentor. He helped me to pass my GED, get accepted in the U of M and after finally finishing my degree, put me to work in the very program that I started in. Through the years he was there to help me make decisions and further my career. He recently retired as the director of ABE in the metro area. I was certainly not the only person that he helped, but had I not met him, I would not be the person I am today. Yes, I have many more teaching stories but that one is the best. Kawin

Kawin, Ginny will be delighted when she returns to learn that you are joining this discussion! Your story is edifying! Anyone who goes to school with four little ones at home is - a hero! When did you sleep?

You were fortunate to have had the help of that special teacher. I've got a hunch that he saw something in you too. You are probably the success story that made his job worthwhile!

Kawin ~ Welcome to the group! Your post was so uplifting! You are to be commended!

Kawin You are to be congratulated! You were fortunate to have met a teacher that gave you help, but you did it!

Thank you all. I have a great love for teaching and continue to volunteer tutor with students who need that extra help. Can't keep my nose out of it. This will be a wonderful experience. I still have much to learn.

Encore, a cable premium channel, has 2 movies available this month about music teachers - Music of the Heart with Meryl Streep and Mr. Holland's Opus with Richard Dreyfus. I enjoyed them both. Both were about inspiring music teachers, one in the inner city. Each had hoped for a music career but had to turn to teaching to make money and found they loved it.

Marni, I love both movies too. I liked Mr. Holland's Opus the best.KawinYour story is very inspiring. Thank you for sharing it.

Does anybody remember the book and movie titled "Good Morning, Miss Dove. It is a wonderful story about a teacher.

Good Morning Miss Dove

Mr. Chips

Morrie

Sir

Blackboard Jungle

Marni, thank you for helping me to remember some of the books and movies about teachers. There are so many books and movies about professors and teachers. It proves this profession will always have a great impact and influence on our lives.

Shirley McLaine in "Madame Sousatzka", about a piano teacher and her passion for teaching the piano. Very colorful eccentric character with some good insights on how to train a GREAT artist.

And another one which Ginny especially might like is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109340/ called, "The Browning Version" of a classics professor in an English prep school. Albert Finney did one of the most TERRIFIC acting jobs I have ever seen in this one. It's a quiet movie and every nuance of emotion is portrayed in the way Finney's uses his face. I can't believe he didn't win every award on the planet for this one.

Kawin, welcome. You say you were fortunate --I'd say you were very brave and now your students are lucky to have such a courageous teacher.

Re: the movies. Lovely to be reminded of them again, I think Ive seen just about all, but I didn't know there was a movie of "Miss Dove." Sierra, the ones you mention are definitely worth seeing more than once. And then there is "Dead Poets Society" with Robin Williams. Also, was the book "UP the Down Staircase" ever made into a movie?

was the book "UP the Down Staircase" ever made into a movie?

I think so. Wasn't Sandy Dennis is that one?

Has anyone mentioned "The Dead Poets' Society"?

Yes, I think it was mentioned in the post just before my last one.(85 by pedl) But we don't mind if you mention it again- it bears repeating. Great flick!

Scootz--Thanks. I'm sad to report that I read pedln's post and missed seeing that movie. I've got to slow down with the reading thing.

Sandy Dennis? Isn't she the one in the TV ads, always sitting in the middle of a field eating "Wheat Thins?"

pedln, Now, you've got me there! It is her in that movie though, I checked it out at imdb.

I got my book today and have already read a couple of chapters. I am interested already. His writing style is different, a bit disjointed, but it catches my attention.

I'm not up on the movies although I have enjoyed some of them. What was the one with Sean Connery? Then there was The Man Without a Face. I can't remember who played in that one although I can see his face. I've always been a sucker for teacher stories. I have many more I can share as do most teachers.

The student I tutor had tried to pass her english, reading and written language test that must be passed before she can graduate. We worked all year on her skills and she retook the test in April and passed. We danced around the house when she told me. That is all the reward a teacher needs, to know one has made a difference in a childs life.

Kawin

Just reading this pre discussion is a treat - I've read Amgelas Ashes so I guess I'll come along for Teacher Man though where I'll find enough time is quite beyond me. I'm not a teacher but during my retirement have tutored over 50's just for fun and once upon a time, I spent a term as a governess on a sheep station in the outback but that was long ago in my half forgotten youth. It was an interesting experience as station life was and still is quite different from the everyday city style. today they can more easily fly in and fly out whenever they choose

SierraRose is right - Madame Sousatzka was a great film and could be my favourite Shirley Maclaine. Who was the author?

There was a Browning Version made before the one with Albert Finney. I believe the earlier one was played by Michael Redgrave.

Going way-way-way back (1940s)? I seem to recall seeing Robert Donat in Goodbye Mr Chips. Donat was a very versatile actor and did character parts as well as playing leading man role but his real forte was for comedy - his 'The Flying Shuttle' lifted morale during the war (but wasn't about a teacher man).

...there is a big article in our DMN today about a reprint of a book entitled STONER by native Texan John Williams. It comes out today and I think I'll pick up a copy on my next trip to B&N.

Has anyone heard of this book? It originally came out in 1965, but stood in the "shadow of his other works, including AUGUSTUS, co-winner of the National Book Award". It sounds very good, and is small, under 300 pages. New York Review Books is reprinting it as part of their classic reprint series.

Here is the info on it:

STONER

A couple of old titles have come into my mind today -

The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie - later filmed with Maggie Smith in the lead

The classic and gentle stories in te 'Miss Read' series often centred on an English village and its school

Charlotte Bronte's 'The Professor' and 'Villette' are early examples of 'teacher' novels.

HiGumtree, I read "Villette," by Charlotte Bronte. I had forgotten all about that one. I am glad you mentioned. it.

My Freshman English teacher, Mr. Benzinger, had to be the one person I can attribute my love of reading to. I had never read any books to speak of as a child, since I was raised in a home that had no books that I can remember, except the Bible. This particular teacher had us read H.G. Wells, "The Time Machine" and I was amazed at how interested I was in discussing this in class. Mr. Benzinger got tired of me being the only student who had done the daily reading lesson and the only student raising my hand, to answer his questions. He gave me a B+ every quarter on my report card. I strived to get an A, and could not understand what more was expected to receive it. My final report card I had an A+. I asked him what had I done differently to finally get that grade. He told me nothing, he felt I deserved it all along but was afraid I would loose my interest and excitement if he gave it to me sooner. He told me I should one day write books, because he saw something in me, that he had not seen in many students. I have many rough drafts of children's books I intend to submit someday. I have shared this love of books with my three grand daughters. Each summer I have my eldest grand daughter sit with me and write a short story. She is ten years old now and has quite the imagination. I taught computers in a private school for 15 years, because I love teaching children. Once I began having grandchildren, I decided to open my in home day care, and we have quite the collection of children's books for story time, from, Karen Beaumont, David Shannon, C.M. Rubin, etc. My second grand daughter's favorite is, "I Aint Gonna Paint No More" by Karen Beaumont, because I told her the little one in the book reminds me of her. I am hoping all of you who join in this discussion will be an inspiration to me and will motivate me to finally finish and submit my first book for publication. I just know from reading all your stories this is going to be a fun course. I look forward to sharing this discussion time, and what better topic then about Teachers!

BELLEMARIE, I hope you do get around to submitting those book drafts. We would be so pleased to have another published author on SeniorNet.

Babi

Ginny's question intrigued me. It was:

". . .is the sole purpose to impart information? Or to engage the learner in a lifelong pursuit of the subject? Or? What is the actual purpose in any teaching?"

"I think imparting information is only partially what a good teacher does. The most important thing for a teacher to impart, in my mind, is teaching children HOW TO THINK LOGICALLY AND ANALYZE, and thereby be able to know where to look for information and how to connect the dots to draw their own conclusions. It is only a very RARE teacher who can actually do that, and the way the educational system is structured makes it difficult even for those teachers who do know how to do that.". . . . snip . . .

I agree totally with your answer. The teachers that DIDN'T influence me were those who simply taught information. I learned best when I was encouraged to find out why. I always tried to be that kind of teacher.

My favorite "teacher" story/movie: To Sir, With Love starring Sidney Poitier.

Nancy

When you talked about the Wheat Thin commercial in Post#90, I could see the woman in the field chewing a Wheat Thin too. I couldn't remember her name. I went to Google. Her name is Sandy Duncan.

Wheat Thins

Teaching is so important. It is due more than a passing thought or two. I feel that the purpose of teaching goes through changes. What or how to teach is never constant. As the population changes and the history of the population alters, the how and what must change too.

I remember reading "Up from Slavery" by Booker T. Washington. He talked about teaching methods used for people just coming out of slavery or close to that time. Throughout American History the teaching purposes for Afro-Americans have changed. As the people began to read, write and count, these same people began to fight for the chance to vote. Then, a teacher's purpose became one of teaching about why American Politics is important. Without the ability to read and write how could a person vote? How could their world possibly change?

Because of teachers and professors who have known how to remain open to change for their teaching purposes the Afro-American is proud of many famous men and women like Benjamin Banneker, Phillis Wheatley and George Washington Carver, Charlotte Forten and many other people.

Charlotte Forten

George Washington Carver

Booker T. Washington

American Teachers have used strong and different purposes for the immigrants, the Polish, Irish,etc. who came to Ellis Island. Now, there are new ideas needed for the teaching of the Hispanic population. This is only to show the powerful mind of a teacher. A teacher is ready and able to meet people from all walks of life and introduce these people to the wonderful world of learning.

I feel humbled, as a student, to honor the beautiful nature of teachers. Teachers have the wonderful gift of seeing beyond color and seeing the mind as colorless. Teachers want students to bloom and use all of their talents. I am certainly grateful to all my teachers in the past.

Please do submit your manuscripts to a publisher. Even though it's difficult and often discouraging to get published, keep trying---for Mr. Benzinger, if not for yourself!

Bellamarie,thank you for your story. I agree with Sierrarose. Your story is wonderful. I definitely think you could write great stories in whatever genre you chose. You have inspired me to look at a copy of "The Time Machine" by H. G. Wells. I am glad you wrote about Mr. Benzinger here.

Bellemarie, welcome to our SeniorNet discussions! This one promises to be a memorable first for you and you will bring much to the table with your personal experience! Welcome, welcome, welcome!

Bellemarie, welcome to SeniorNet. What a wonderful story. I do hope you are published one day.

Hats -- You're a good researcher. Thanks for the "wheat thins" answer.

When Hats was talking about Charlotte Forten, she reminded me of another woman, Mary Mcleod Bethune , who had a long history as an African American educator as well as other civic endeavors and government positions. She was also a friend of Eleanor Roosevelt.

Pedln,thank you for listing Mary McLeod Bethune. I immediately about her. Then, someway didn't write about her or put a link to her name. Some people have said Eleanor Roosevelt and Mary Bethune resembled each other physically. They did have a close relationship. Thank you for the clickable.

I can't access BOOK NOOK today, nor can I access my normal page with all the book discussions listed. Am I the only one? I am putting this here in TECAHER since I could get in here through a back way. What's up?

Book Nook works for me

jane, "---The Book Nook: A Meeting Place for Readers-- Everyone is Welcome!" #, 18 May 2006 2:00 pm

Scootz: I had that happen last night about 12:30 a.m. This morning it worked for me.

marni- yes, apparently I wasn't the only one. A few of us experienced this.

I'm in. Finally got my book, and can't wait to read it.

Three more days! Doing your countdown, Ginny?

Babi

Ginny is coming around the mountain! Ginny is coming home. Yippee!

Babi, I have my book. Now I need to start my chapters. I haven't subscribed either. There is so much to do around here, do with pleasure.

I'm definitely subscribed, HATS. I started "Teacher Man", read the prologue, and I'm already hooked! The man is a delight.

Babi

Babi, that's great! I am glad to hear it. I will start it today.

I have read the first 4 chapters with interest. I am primed for the discussion. I will be out of town for the 4th but intend to take my computer to stay hooked in to the discussion.

My daughter-in-law is a teacher, so is my niece. I am surrounded by them. It must be that likes attract. We have some very interesting discussions in our family. McCourt's book will be one of our topics.

See you soon

I just picked up my book. The Prologue just took me away and into Frank McCourt's life as a teacher. I can't wait to turn each page.

Already in chapter one there are two latin words, "Mea culpa." Those two words have spooked me. I think those two words appeared in another discussion. Some kind person gave the translation. I have forgotten the translation. This is starting the chapters. So, I will stop and wait until tomorrow.

One more thing. This book is really making me laugh, so far.

Mea culpa means I take the blame or blame me; the English culpable is from that Latin root.
The on-line dictionary gives: Deserving of blame or censure as being wrong, evil, improper, or injurious; blameworthy.

Mippy, thank you.

I didn't know you started this discussion the first of June!!! I"ve been very busy and have just run in and out of SN this last month, so today i tho't let me hop in here and see if they've begun Teacher Man and WOWOWOWOWOW! Ginny always gets things going in a big way.........ok........ok, let me calm down.......I'll catch up. But i will still be running in and out.....My son and fiancee will be here Sunday and Weds my Hub and i will be on the road to Georgia for a week, so i'll try to get in as often as i can because i know this is going to be a HOOT!!!. I'll get the book tomorrow at the library. If i ask questions you've already talked about, forgive me. I'll try to get everything read up to this point, but, i'm grading essay exams!!!..........so be patient w/ me.......i need lots of empathy to do that job, LOL......love you all, teachers, parents, students.......jean

I'm off to watch the Bill MOyers show on Faith and Reason.......he's interviewing Mary Gordon..........is there a discussion on SN on this show?...........jean

The actual discussion of the book does not begin until tomorrow. This has only been a PRE-discussion, talking about teaching in general and about our individual memories of teachers who had an impact on us when we were young.

Grading essay exams??? They still give essay exams??? Actually that's good to hear. I used to love essay exams---honestly!!! When all the others would groan I would rake my memory for every little fact I could recall and put them together in a logical order---and would relish writing an essay. But then, I always was sort of an odd duck. I can, however, imagine that to grade them would be incredibly time consuming.

Again, welcome. The discussion should be fun.