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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/hdghogcvr.jpg) | "Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -
"Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1836659,00.html)
The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence from a world she finds meaningless. The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.
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Discussion Schedule:
April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble ~ pgs.17-27
April 4-10 ~ Camellias ~ pgs.31-129
April 11-14 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-166
April 15-19 ~ Summer Rain ~ pgs.173-238
April 20-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315
April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325
Final Thoughts | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/DavidTroodG460.jpg)
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Topics for Pre-discussion
1. What do you know of hedgehogs and their habits? Do you see anything "elegant" about these critters?
2. Can you find information about this first-time author? We could use a link if you can copy it here.
3. This has been called a "philosophical fable"? Intimidated? What is your knowledge of philosophy?
4. How difficult must it be to have one's first novel immediately become an international best seller?
5. What is a "concierge"? Wouldn't you love this job in a posh Parisian neighborhood?
Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Eloise (eloisede@sympatico.ca )
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Welcome, everyone!
So happy you are planning to join us. We are expecting great things in the discussion of this little novel that has caused such an International uproar, earning so many top awards, astonishing for a first-time author. Exciting, really.
Some psychotherapists in France have perscribed the book for their patients. That says something about the power of this book!
As we wait for folks to gather and to locate the book, let's try to get to know one another a bit - and to find out more about this unknown author. I find the writing fascinating and wonder about her inspiration for the story.
I'll admit to being intimidated about the philosophical references...but can understand that some knowledge will be useful in understanding the nuances of the story. Not that one can't enjoy the novel glossing over the references, but it will be such a more meaningful experience if we don't just ignore them. I'm hoping to learn something from the book - and from you!
Again, welcome everyone. Bienvenue!
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Bonjour! I have read this book twice because the first time too many things escaped me and I wanted to dig into it more in depth and each time it told me something different.
Did you ever wish to know who lived behind the tall doors of elegant apartment buildings along the tree lined boulevards in Paris? In The Elegance of the Hedgehog we are about to find out. It is a book about class. High class, low class, and the class in between where there are those who belong to both classes in a surprising and engaging way. It is a book you will remember long after you have read it because it brings to light many things that are often left unsaid in society that needs to be pointed out. Don't miss this little gem you will love it I am sure.
Welcome to all participants, I am glad that you will be joining us in The Elegance of the Hedgehog discussion .
Éloïse
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Hello Joan p and Eloise,
I have been waiting for this discussion to open. I am really looking forward to this book discussion.
I have started reading the book, although I am have not gotten very far in it. Since it is available only in paperback and no large print, I am sure that I will be slow reading it.
I have always been fascinated with hedgehogs. I really do not know much about them though. I just know that we do not have them in this country. I think they are so cute . So so much for my knowledge of hedgehogs.
I am hoping to learn alot in this discussion.
Joan G
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Joan G. Bienvenue chère amie. I am so happy that you will be joining us, you who has gone to France more often than anyone I know, I look forward to your posts.
I wonder why there are no hedgehog here, does anyone know?
Today I bought the French version to give to my daughter Isabelle who wants to read it when she goes for her vacation.
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Hi ladies! I will be joining you for this discussion. I'll be reading as we go, so I don't plan to start the book for a couple of weeks yet.
I was surprised to read that there are no hedgehogs in the U.S. I remember them vividly from when we lived in England for 18 months. My son attended preschool there, and they "studied" hedgehogs.
I know nothing about philosophy, so I will have much to learn in that regard.
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No Hedgehogs?? I have seen them in pet stores and the zoo..People in the dog world talk of how to get the spines out of nosy dogs.. So there must be some version of them in the states.. I have the book.. have not started it, but will try and wait until we start.
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Hello Laura and Steph, welcome to our discussion, how wonderful to have you on board.
As we progress, we will find out several things about this strange title. I will certainly be interested in reading all the information coming out of this discussion. I realized that I had never seen a hedgehog in my life. Are you sure Steph that the critter you saw in a pet store was not a porcupine? I have lived in the city all my life so I am not familiar with pets as we never had even a dog in our house.
Please continue to come in and share your knowledge.
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Good morning Folks.
The Hedgehog is not found in the United States or anywhere in North America unless it is in a pet store or someone has it as a pet. However it is illegal to own a hedgehog in some parts of the United States.
To read about Hedgehogs click the following link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog.
I have been interested in them from reading about them in English books and from seeing pictures and figurines of them when I was traveling in England.
One of the things that attracts me to this book is trying to discover why Hedgehog is in the title.
Joan Grimes
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Right Joan G. and Steph, so there are hedgehogs in the US but they are in pet stores, as household pets or in a zoo. I am learning something. Tell us more will you because then we will find out why the author entitled the book The Elegance of the Hedgehog. I am dying to know.
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Eloise,
I collect hedgehog figurines and you probably don't remember that I bought one when we had the books gathering at the Isle of Palms, SC. I went into Charleston. with some of the group and I found it at the market there. I don't think you went with us. If I remember correctly you stayed at the house to do some cooking. So you did not see my hedgehog because I had it mailed to my home .It was so big that I would not have been able to carry it on to the plane. I named it Charlie Boyd and it sits on the hearth in my living room. I bought it for my sun room but have never put it there.
Here is a link to click on to see my hedgehog. http://joanmgrimes.com/seniorlearn/charlieboyd..jpg
Joan G
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Oh! Joan, no I didn't see your hedgehog unfortunately and you even gave it the name Charlie Boyd. How absolutely touching, you had just lost your husband. :(
Hôtels particuliers (http://images.google.ca/images?hl=fr&q=hotels+particuliers+in+paris&btnG=Recherche+d%27images&gbv=2)
Click on any one of those links and it gives us an idea of where the characters in the book were living.
Paris counts about 400 hôtels particuliers. Veritable small palaces including courtyards with splendid gardens in the heart of Paris. It is useless to mention the price, we can guess that it is not for everybody’s pocketbook. “Hôtels Particuliers” might exist since the middle ages, be perfectly integrated in the city. Hôtels particuliers are what makes people dream or pretend that they are living there. (my translation)
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Here is information on the author, which includes a reading group guide, an author interview, and a link to her website (which is in French). I am not going to look at much of this until after I have completed the book for fear of spoilers.
http://www.europaeditions.com/author.php?Id=48 (http://www.europaeditions.com/author.php?Id=48)
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Thanks for bringing this site to our attention, Laura. You bring up an important point regarding "spoilers" -
This is probably a good time to remind everyone that some of us have read the book, others have not. This is a book that is great to reread, any number of times - as Eloise says. But it is important to remember that for many, this is the first time. It would be helpful when you post here in this prediscussion if you indicate whether you have read the book or not.
I read the book in January - and knew then that I wanted the opportunity to discuss it with you. Then came Guernsey Literary Society and by the time I turned to Hedgehog, it was no where to be found. I tore the house apart. I don't often lose a book for more than a day, but this one I LOST. I began to think of those who came through my door since January, wondering if I had lent it out. When I sent out a group email, my sons wrote back that they had never heard of it. Youngest son wrote:
I picture a hedgehog in a robe and slippers reading by moonlight with Beethoven in the background.
Now that's elegant! Joan G, your little Charlie Boyd is adorable. I'm not quite sure I'd call him "elegant" however. But what does "elegant" mean exactly?
How do you imagine a hedgehog? We know now that we don't see them in the US. I had imagined a groundhog.
At one point, we were considering using this graphic -
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/hedgehog1.gif)
But isn't he scampering too fast? Don't you think a hedgehog would just lumber along? Maybe not? I don't know my hedgehogs, obviously.
And what do we know of our author - Is she an expert in hedgehogs? A Naturalist? A nature lover? All we really know from Laura's site is that she lives in Japan. And that her husband is quite an artist. Do you feel the need to learn more about her before we begin?
Just be sure to follow Laura's advice - be careful when you are searching, you don't want to spoil anything for yourself, or for first-time readers...and there is a real danger of doing so at the end. If you've read the book, follow the discussion schedule in the heading closely so that you do not go ahead.
This promises to be a hugely rewarding discussion!
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How wonderful to discover the prediscussion!
Re question #2. Muriel Barbery, the author of "Elegance of the Hedgehog", is a French philosophy professor and novelist, born in Morocco, now living in Japan. Her first book was "Une gourmandise", written a few years ago, which is now being translated into English due to the spectacular success of "Elegance ..." in Europe and, obviously, in this country.
Re question#1, like Éloïse, I too wondered about 'hedgehog' vs. porcupine, and I can see the difference. But in the end it may not matter. What the two have in common are the quills which are their shield and make them invulnerable.
Re question # 5. It's surprising how easily the French term "concierge" has been adopted in the last few years. Concierges have become a fixture in the best hotels in this country and are a familiar sight also in luxury apartment houses. They have a vital role and many duties and responsibilities. Without them there at the ready, an edifice might collapse, heaven forfend! ;)
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I have the book and have read a little of it.
It is interesting. --- But I'll hold off reading more and will follow the schedule.
I thought a hedgehog was a porcupine, so already I have learned something new.
I just figured putting hedgehog in the title meant someone "prickly" who kept people at a distance. I am looking forward to learning more philosophy.
This is going to be an interesting discussion. I was pleased to see this pre-discussion.
Evelyn
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Traude and EvelynMC, welcome to you. We are going to have a wonderful discussion I know. l am looking forward to learn from your knowledge.
Here is the Online Dictionary's definition of the word Elegance.
ELEGANCE
Refinement, grace and beauty in movement, appearance, or manners.
Tasteful opulence in form, decoration, or presentation.
Restraint and grace of style.
Scientific exactness and precision.
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Thanks Eloise & JoanP for hosting this discussion. I'm looking forward to learning heaps from everyone. I have already read the book but will take care to stick to the schedule and not let any spoilers out.
My knowledge of philosophy is virtually non existent so that aspect will be a major learning curve for me.
We don't have hedgehogs in Australia. The nearest here is the Echidna, aka the Spiny Anteater. It is said to resemble both the hedgehog and the porcupine but has no connection to either of those. The Echidna and another Aussie icon, the Platypus, are the only surviving monotremes - mammals that lay eggs - they are very primitive and represent a link between reptiles and the more advanced mammals. The Echidnas are also found in Papua/New Guinea.
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The few hedgehogs I have seen are dainty delicate creatures with beautiful colors. I have assumed that the elegance referred to a real one since they are really quite different from our porcupines.. and of course the spines removed from our dogs are from porcupines..
Ah, Joan, I remember now you buying the hedgehog..
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Top o' the morning to all Irish - and those who wish you were! ;D
Gum, are you wearing green? Do you celebrate St. Patrick's Day in AU? Aren't there lots of Irishmen there? So happy you will be joining us. I've made a note that you have read the book - and are looking forward to learning something about the philosophical allusions in the book.
Weren't you all excited to learn that the author, Muriel Barbery, is or at least has been a philosophy professor? We're in good hands, I would think. Thank you for that bit of information, Traude. And welcome to the group!
Don't you wonder now about the connection between philosophy and hedgehogs?
Evelyn, I've learned too - that those porcupine-looking spikes are not stiff - and that they stay attached to its body when frightened, Steph, unlike a porcupine. I'm wondering about the little fellow up in the heading next to the reading schedule. He looks as if he's hiding, doesn't he? Is he frightened, I wonder...or is this just how he rests?
I suppose our real question is the connection between elegance and hedgehogs. From Eloise's definitions of "elegance" - I don't see elegance yet - though Steph and JoanG might argue - their "dainty, delicate colors" etc.
Are you familiar with Beatrix Potter's hedgehog - "Mrs. Tiggy-winkle"?
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Top o' the morning to all Irish - and those who wish you were! ;D
Gum, are you wearing green? Do you celebrate St. Patrick's Day in AU? Aren't there lots of Irishmen there?
Do we ever !- St Patrick's Day is an institution here - on Tv News tonight the Prime Minister was shown addressing a large gathering of folk celebrating the wearing of the green - he made several references to the Guiness Stout - can't stand the stuff myself.
There are not so many Irishmen here but a large proportion of the population has Irish blood somewhere along the line including yours truly -my gt grandfather and his father-in-law, my Gt Gt gr Father both came from Ireland in mid 1800s- but that's going back a little now. Well, you did ask ;D
I think the hedgehogs curl themselves up in something like a ball as protection from danger - the echidna certainly does.
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Joan P, Beatrix Potters little hedgehog is where I first heard of hedgehogs and developed my love for them. That made me start to look for them when I went to England. I love Mrs. Tiggy-winkle.
I think the one you have in the heading is rolled up. They roll up to protect themselves. When they roll up their quills stick out to protect them.
Steph, I thought you might remeber when I bought my Charlie Boyd.
Joan G
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Happy St. Patrick’s day to all of you who claim Irish ancestors. Two daughters of mine married Irishmen, and are they ever Irish both of them. One of them lives right here below me.
No JoanP, I don’t see the resemblance at all yet, but we might see one later on in the book. Let’s keep our eyes open.
Gumtree, My knowledge of philosophy is virtually non existent so that aspect will be a major learning curve for me
Although I am ignorant about academic philosophy, I am quite sure that we all have acquired some in our long life as I have been able to observe on SeniorNet and here in Seniorlearn with participants who have an education level higher than I can ever hope to have. Yet it doesn’t daunt me one bit to try to understand the philosophy in the book. Am I cheeky, or just dumb? Let’s not compare ourselves with famous philosophers shall we and we will be fine. I can't wait to see what you will all say about this book. It gave me shivers when I read it.
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Eloise- Do not sell yourself short.
You are a very wise woman who listens and observes others. That would be the philosopher in you.
I have read in the past few years many logical, brilliant,and thoughtful posts of yours that emanate warm convictions and reasoning.
What else do philophers do?
You see life as a learning curve and that is more important than the "academia."
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Alf, thanks but you are exagerating. Most of the time I wonder what I can say that makes sense.
I know that several of you have been to France, Paris to be specific where the action is taking place, so please feel free to share your impressions of what it was like if you care to.
It is not often that we see a "concierge" in apartment buildings here. I researched trying to find an equivalent and it said a concierge is a caretaker but somehow I don't think they do quite the same thing. What do you think?
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I'm in. Haven't read the book: it's on order.
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I hope to join you if my name comes up on the reserve list in time.
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I have read any number of books that talk of the concierge in France. Sometimes they are portrayed as cranky old ladies, dressed in black and always present as you enter and leave your rooms. Other times as sympathetic older ladies who help the confused young lovers.. Never any young ladies, I note.
I am one of those who has been in Paris a number of times and in the last few years, in river trips and trains all over France. I love the river trips north, they portray a France that is like my early dreams of it. All pastels and flowers and small villages with markets..
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WEll, I have been to France more times than I can tell you.For many years I have not missed a year going to France at least once and many times I have been more than once. I love France. I always spend some time in Paris but really love the French countryside. It really is a beautiful country but we are not talking about all that are we. We are talking about Paris. The concierge is traditional in France. But I am not going to really go into that because we are not yet to the discussing the book.
In the Springtime Paris is so beautiful...There are so many beautiful trees blooming, such as cherry trees, etc. The Spring flowers are just gorgeous. It is truly beautiful with all the signs of Spring among the beautiful old buildings. Whenever I am sad and lonely a trip to Paris always makes me feel so much better. I have described it as letting Paris enfold me in its arms and comfort me. I do have that feeling when I arrive there.
People always ask me if I have friends or family there. The answer is no. My friend is Paris.
I suppose I could go on forever about Paris , Eloise, but I am not going to do that.
I am going to read some more of the book today. Yesterday I did not have much time to read but will do so today.
Joan Grimes
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Good morning, JoanG. We're looking forward to hearing more of your concierge stories.
JoanK, Jackie (Mrssherlock)...Welcome! So glad you plan to join us. Jackie, my library "hold list" is quite long. I've got my fingers crossed that you will be able to get your hands on this popular book.
My first memory of a concierge was in 1964 when studying in France for a month in the summer. The concierge was sort of a house mother, or so I thought at the time. She always seemed to appear from nowhere as I went in and out of the building. It felt weird - I thought she was watching me all the time - and was possibly communicating with my father...
Many years later in a resident hotel, while visiting a friend, I experienced the exact same feeling. The concierge wasn't like the person you see behind a desk in a hotel, clearly visible, waiting to give directions or tend to some request...but always coming from somewhere at the exact moment I entered or left the building.
I wonder now if that's not part of the job description - to make sure the guest or resident knew that I was on duty - just in case needed.
I still think I'd like the job...if it came with free rent! And if I didn't have to do windows - or cleaning ...or laundry! And if I had a day off now and then. Oh, and I wouldn't want to wear black, either, Steph! Maybe black is what widows wear in France...I don't ever recall a husband living with the concierge...
I found a bit of interesting information on Beatrix Potter's Mrs. Tiggy Winkle, JoanG. I see you are quite familiar with her.
Mrs Tiggy-winkle is a small, round twinkly-eyed washerwoman; but has prickles under her cap and does the laundry for some surprising customers, including Peter Rabbit and Squirrel Nutkin!
(http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/powdermonki/eBay_Images/Books/Thumbnails/Books_017.jpg) (http://www.azubee.com/images/p/potter/emblem-tb.jpg)
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Oh Joan P,
Isn't Mrs Tiggly Winkle adorable? I just love her. She is quite prickly isn't she?
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Steph: I am one of those who has been in Paris a number of times and in the last few years, in river trips and trains all over France. I love the river trips north, they portray a France that is like my early dreams of it. All pastels and flowers and small villages with markets..
Lovely description.
JoanP. I still think I'd like the job...if it came with free rent! And if I didn't have to do windows - or cleaning ...or laundry! And if I had a day off now and then. Oh, and I wouldn't want to wear black, either, Steph! Maybe black is what widows wear in France...I don't ever recall a husband living with the concierge...
Not me, but on the other hand if I had ‘free’ rent in the center of Paris with some ‘free’ time I might just do it. I doubt that concierges do other people’s laundry. My sister married a Frenchman from Bretagne after the war and he expected her to wear black, but at one point she discarded the black, cut her long hair and I have never seen her wear it again. I don't think women still wear black when they are widowed though, but it's only a guess.
Jackie? Welcome, I am so glad you are joining us. I saw Hedgehog on the Amazon web site at $13.
The Miss Potter movie is so great. I love to watch it every time it is sown on PBS
Joan G, I love this: In the Springtime Paris is so beautiful...There are so many beautiful trees blooming, such as cherry trees, etc. The Spring flowers are just gorgeous. It is truly beautiful with all the signs of Spring among the beautiful old buildings. Whenever I am sad and lonely a trip to Paris always makes me feel so much better. I have described it as letting Paris enfold me in its arms and comfort me. I do have that feeling when I arrive there.
It so well describe your attachment to France.
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I can't believe my book came already: I just ordered it a couple of days ago.
It certainly doesn't start out as if Paris is enfolding these people. I've only been in Paris once. It was December, and it rained the whole time. So I have rather dreary memories of it. We then went through the French countyside, which I loved.
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JoanK,
I was describing my personal relationship with Paris. Of course that feeling that I have about Paris has nothing to do with the book.
Joan Grimes
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About concierges.
The eldest daughter of our former neighbors, who's the age of my son, became a concierge in Boston at the Westin Copley Plaza Hotel. She came out to greet us when we arrived there the night my son's class celebrated their graduation from Boston College.
I should have said concierge services are available in big notels, albeit not in a "loge" or cubicle close to the entrance, but rather behind the scenes, more commonly known as "Housekeeping". It is the Reception watches over those who enter and leave.
I can understand how Éloïse and JoanG feel about Paris. They are not alone. That's the way I feel not only about the "city of light", but about Rome, la città eterna, and Venice, la Serenissima, among others. They are more a state of mind, of course.
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Here are a dozen photos of Muriel Barbery at a book signing event in a library
http://litoteentete.blogspot.com/2007/01/photos-de-la-rencontre-avec-muriel_16.html
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Éloïse, Wonderful! Thank you. Funny, too. First one plate with a piece of cake, the cake slowly getting smaller; the big stack of books getting smaller; in the end two cake plates, both empty; all books sold; then the a gift for the author from the editor. Was it the first book-signing, I wonder?
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Looks like I'll be getting my book soon. 2 are available in the remote libraries, jsut have to wait til they email me. Hooray!
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Eloise - Wonderful photos - lots of different moods shown - tell me why I expected Muriel to be a much older woman with short grey hair and glasses :P
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When I lived in Israel I got to know the Hedgehog . Kids who live in the country collect the quills.. The Hebrew for Hedgehog is 'KIPOD' and Kippy Kipod is a favorite childhood character in that country. Along with its cousins The Brown Hare and the Indian Crested Porcupine it is the most common roadkill because of its nocturnal lifestyle.
In fact this animal is so ubiquitous in Israel that a well known Blog about the country is called "The Hedgehog.'
I bought the book but have not read it and plan to follow the schedule posted. This is usually hard for me but I.ve found that the unexpected happens and I'm forced to weave the plot differently in my head. When I read a book through, the warp and weft of the plot become whole cloth and I don't think about the way it is put together.
Looking forward to speaking to you when I return from a visit to family in S.CA ten days from tomorrow.
Jude
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/hdghogcvr.jpg) | "Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -
"Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1836659,00.html)
The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence from a world she finds meaningless. The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.
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Discussion Schedule:
April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble ~ pgs.17-27
April 4-10 ~ Camellias ~ pgs.31-129
April 11-14 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-166
April 15-19 ~ Summer Rain ~ pgs.173-238
April 20-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315
April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325
Final Thoughts | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/DavidTroodG460.jpg)
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Topics for Pre-discussion
1. What do you know of hedgehogs and their habits? Do you see anything "elegant" about these critters?
2. Can you find information about this first-time author? We could use a link if you can copy it here.
3. This has been called a "philosophical fable"? Intimidated? What is your knowledge of philosophy?
4. How difficult must it be to have one's first novel immediately become an international best seller?
5. What is a "concierge"? Wouldn't you love this job in a posh Parisian neighborhood?
Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Eloise (eloisede@sympatico.ca )
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Good morning, Jude - and welcome! Your travel schedule will work perfectly with ours...we will certainly look for you in ten days.
So, the hedgehog is "ubiquitous" in Israel...like squirrels perhaps? And children collect the quills... the quills (http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/quills.shtml) rather than their elegance) are what I find fascinating about the hedgehog right now. We are told they are not like the quills of the porcupine, and yet in this site you can see that the hedgehog can use them to kill snakes!
The little fellow wrapped in quills in the heading does so as protection? When he is frightened? Hmmm, Is our concierge frightened of something? I'm surely going to be watchful for that when we get into the story.
Eloise, thank you for those photos of the author at her book signings. Gum - the photos don't match up with the philosophy professor image, do they? (are you disappointed?) From the book publisher, we learn that Ms. Barbery will be in the US for a mini book tour in April - but only CA and New York. I think she will be in Albany for a conference. Do we have anyone from upstate NY or San Francisco here? As Elegance of the Hedgehog climbs in the New York Times Bestseller List - March (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/books/bestseller/bestpapertradefiction.html?_r=1)
perhaps she will extend the book tour while she is here!
ps - JoanK, that was quick service. I'm glad you have your book in hand. Jackie, I hope that your library hold list is not as long as ours is here in Arlington. I'm #82 on the list! (I did buy my own copy...) Will keep fingers crossed for you!
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Did you ever see a more elegant heading? I think it is absolutely perfect. We can thank Joan P and Pat who designed it. They did an exceptional job of balance and style. The book cover is classy and the first paragraph on the right explains but doesn't reveal and the second paragraph leaves you wanting to know what has made this book so popular. Thank you Joan P and Pat for your fine work on this heading you are both so artistic I am sure it will draw many more people to the discussion.
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Eloise,
I am certainly wondering what has made this book so popular...I will admit that so far I haven't found anything that has really captured me in this book. I do keep plugging on because it is set in Paris. Of course what attracted me in the first place was the Hedgehog title. I will keep trying to find what there is to attract so many people to it.
The heading of the discussion is really quite elegant.
Joan Grimes
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Many authors dream of getting their books onto best-seller lists, but few pull it off with the panache of French writer Muriel Barbery. Her second novel, The Elegance of the Hedgehog, has been at or near the top of France's sales charts for 102 straight weeks since its September 2006 publication. It has been translated into a half-dozen languages and is being adapted for film. In South Korea and Italy, the book has generated the same sort of enthusiasm and devotion that made it a publishing phenomenon in France. Now, with the release of an English translation on Sept. 7, Elegance is pursuing a goal that has proved devilishly elusive for modern French novelists: success in the U.S. and Britain. Barbery acknowledges the challenge. "But given what the book has done elsewhere thus far, I guess I'm willing to believe anything is possible," she says. "It has been like a dream." underlining is mine
This is taken from the Times link in the heading. I don't utually agree with the gushing written about a popular book, but I have to make an exception for this one. It's not like other books where the locale and the character's culture make it hard to translate and be understood in other languages, this one is universal. There is a reason why it is so popular in the US and Britain. It is popular because Barbery has the key to undress people's facade and reaveal what's at the core of individuals.
I don't know if the author's Philosophy Professorship has anything to do with the quality of her writing, but, but, wait, I don't want to say too much before people start reading it.
Please continue reading it Joan, and I think you will agree later on that there is something special here. Don't read it too fast, wait for us, we haven't started it yet. We still have 10 days before we start for good.
Meantime for those who are undecided, do get this book, you won't be required to read it 3 times like I did.
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Éloïse, I too saw that review, but attracted me originally was the Washington Post review by Michael Dirda. That's when I set out to get the book and proposed it to the local group.
The proposal was accepted in good faith. What happened at our discussion is not the issue, of course.
I bought the book and it is well marked (!). On the cover is a pre-teen girl. Cold this be a hint that there are two main characters?
Since the schedule has been laid out it is not a spoiler to mention the chapter on grammar. I may be forgiven for my curiosity, but this is my field and I'dLOVE
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an iunwanted interruption here.
To continue.
...I'd love to see the French words Muriel used for the grammatical inaccuracies, because surely the translation could only be an approximation. There is much more to say about this when the time comes.
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Traude, I am afraid that I'd better not post in French here in case somebody would not understand it and we will be discussing the English version, but I will email you a paragraph in both languages if it would please you.
There is always something lost in translation as we know, but I still believe that this book will provide us with a lively discussion that I am sure we will all enjoy.
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Éloïse, no, no, of course we don't need the French examples of inaccuracy here. Absolutely not. I am sorry, this is much too early to even mention this.
But since foreign languages, linguistics, translating and interpreting are my métier, I wondered what French verb forms that were objected to and how Alison Anderson rendered them in her English translation. My apologies for bringing this up; after all, we are only in the pre-discussion.
It is not a burning issue for anybody but me :) and I have considered ordering the book from Schoenhof's Foreign Language Book Store in Cambridge, Mass. I know from long experience that they have absolutely everything :)
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Oh , I would love to read the whole book in French, Eloise. I would probably enjoy it more in French. I think I will see if I can find a copy in French somewhere on the Internet and order it.
Joan Grimes
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Hi - looking forward to the read -
There is a reason why it is so popular in the US and Britain. It is popular because Barbery has the key to undress people's facade and reveal what's at the core of individuals
Muriel Barbery may have the ability to reveal what is at the core of the human heart and soul but with sentences like these in casual response to a gift says to me she lives, thinks and breathes a way of expressing the common with joy, delight, innocent, courageous intuitiveness.
Touchée, coulée. Je fonds devant ce cadeau qui me touche beaucoup. [Touched, run. I melt in front of this gift, which touches me much.]
And how would we describe a hedgehog - based on the story of Lucy by Beatrix Potter, Brian Jacques's book series, Redwall and Kenneth Grahame's Wind in the Willows -
In accordance with the kindly Badger's injunctions, the two tired animals came down to breakfast very late next morning, and found a bright fire burning in the kitchen, and two young hedgehogs sitting on a bench at the table, eating oatmeal porridge out of wooden bowls. The hedgehogs dropped their spoons, rose to their feet, and ducked their heads respectfully as the two entered.
'There, sit down, sit down,' said the Rat pleasantly, 'and go on with your porridge. Where have you youngsters come from? Lost your way in the snow, I suppose?'
The hedgehog/character expresses their common everyday life within a story with joy, delight, innocent, courageous intuitiveness. And yet, when we see a live hedgehog they are protectively covered in inch long stiff spines and (in relationship to their body) they have long legs. They usually move slowly but can run up to 6 feet a second.
As a result of the reference to the Hedgehog in both literature and in nature [yes, pet stores] I'm expecting the young girl on the cover to be a private person who is prickly on the outside while soft and endearing in her heart; who goes into her young life with courage and intuitiveness rather than as the smooth sophisticate who knows and does the socially correct like a well trained Beauceron or the popular Lab. This is not a young girl who will blend into the stonework but who will, in all her innocence, courageously walk into our hearts with all her spines in view. That is what I am expecting - we shall see what we shall see.
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Before I start my busy day I just wanted to say that I bought my French version of the book at Chapters Book store in Montreal and I believe Chapters is American based. I am sure you could get it online.
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Bonjour, tout le monde! Happy Sunday morning!
Oho - you have noticed - (so has the editor in chief of theUS version of The Elegance of the Hedgehog) - our selection of the international edition book cover! He wrote and even sent the gif for the US edition, which is probably more familiar to you all.
(http://www.portifex.com/ReadingMatter/Archive/Covers/Hedgehog.jpg)
Eloise and I took a vote and thought the international cover was more "elegant." Another reason for the choice - I felt the U.S. edition cover spotlights the 12 year old Paloma as the protagonist of the story - when personally, I don't think that's at all true. We can discuss this in April.
Admittedly, we have two narrators.
Barbara, we are delighted to hear that you will be joining us - and I am marking you as one who has not yet read the book. Welcome!
"I'm expecting the young girl on the cover to be a private person who is prickly on the outside while soft and endearing in her heart."
We will certainly be looking to see if this is true as the story unfolds, Barb.
Do you suppose that we have two hedgehogs wrapped in prickly spines for protection from, from what?? The world? Society?
Barbara, quoting the Time magazine article -
Elegance is pursuing a goal that has proved devilishly elusive for modern French novelists: success in the U.S. and Britain
There are many levels on which each of us will respond to this book. I'm curious about its success in the U.S. - right now #10 on the New York Times Paperback Best Seller list. Philosophical fiction - how very French, delving into the meaning of life. This novel does so on a very personal level. I bet that it reaches each of us in a different way, no matter where we live. JoanG - will be interested in your response when the discussion gets underway!
Interesting comments about variations in translation - and grammar usage too, Traudee. Does grammar usage reveal something about social class? So happy you and JoanG are going to be in a position to compare Barbery's French and English , Eloise.
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JoanP, in answer to your last question: No. IMHO proper grammar does not bespeak social class but rather a solid basic education.
It bothers me to I hear somebody say (and I have) "I shouldn't have DID this" or "He must have WENT the other way". Ohhhhhhhhhh.
Still, I brought it up prematurely and I apologize.
But yes, we do have two narrators, and the younger of them is pictured on the cover of the Europa edition - so this is not a spoiler. :D
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JoanP, Straude: I'm amazed to hear that language usage does not bespeak social class. It certainly does in England, and less obviously in the US. I can't believe that it doesn't in France. What do you say, Eloise?
Jude: when and where did you live in Israel? I lived in beer Sheva from 1963 to 66. We have another member (Bubble) who lives in Natanya.
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JoanP, Straude: I'm amazed to hear that language usage does not bespeak social class. It certainly does in England, and less obviously in the US. I can't believe that it doesn't in France. What do you say, Eloise?
JoanK, if you don't mind I prefer not to give an opinion about this subject until we have started reading the book because you would probably find that you are both right, in a way. - language is a tool and it's not only grammar that sends a message in every class of society. This book is going to shock you as it shocked me. Not morally mind you because it is very proper but shocking on other fronts. I think that this is why it has become so popular.
I better wait. I want to start at the beginning following the schedule, it will be much nicer because we will be more able to understand what the author means to say if we don't jump ahead. I guarantee that you will all benefit from reading this book.
Those who have read it like me could pretend that they are reading it for the first time and post what they really think and pretend that the action is taking place in your city or your area.
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We have a dear french friend who would argue that language in France is definitely indicative of socil class. He used to mutter a lot when he visited with us and listened to the french around him in Paris. He does not live there, but will come and visit when we do.
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My high school French teach, though from Belgium, proudly claimed to teach us to speak with a Parisian accent.
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Oh dear! Maybe that is why my copy of the Elegance of the Hedgehog has not arrived yet. I ordered it the same day that I ordered Three Cups of Tea and I am already 13 chapters into that story.
Is it because it has to come from France, Eloise??? ::)
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Alf, I don't think it comes from France, I got my two versions at Chapters in Montreal from the shelf. They have it at Amazon I see in Google. Perhaps it's back order, I don't know. I had to wait for my French version from the library three weeks. They can't keep up with the demand.
Judy, I believe everybody likes to listen to Parisian French. They make it a point of speaking correctly and clearly, I love to listen to it and try to detect different accents from people on the street when I go there.
Lately I saw a movie of the life of Josephine Baker, an African American who became a star in Paris in the 1950s and she sang and spoke with the most delicious French/American accent. Do you remember that song? J'ai Deux Amours Mon pays et Paris.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHrOV8YorHI
Hi! Barbara, so nice that you are joining us. Do you have the book?
I talked about Elegance of the Hedgehog at my book club today and none of the women had read it yet but they said they will after I said we were going to discuss it.
I am already in the comparing mode of the two versions and I can assure you that the translator Alison Anderson went to great lengths to transate the meaning of the original Fench text, but it's a big task.
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eloise, you are sweet and such a lady. I was only teasing aout the book coming from France. I still don't know why it has not arrived. Perhaps today!!
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ALF: I'm ahead now in both Three Cups of Tea and Hedgehog. So different, but they're both hard to put down.
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Great Joan, you'll be already with questions AND answers. ;D
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When the new books were proposed I chose this one and purchased a copy..I haven't started yet as I had cataract surgery Feb 10th , It was a huge success and tonight I found the book because I want to discuss it ..I had no idea what it was about but the title appealed to me..this will be the first book I have read since my vision was restored...so I know I need to return to the schedule and see what chapters or whatever are required to start...after reading everyone's opinions if I didn't have something else I must do this evening I WOULD start NOW...it will be with a peculiar kind of joy to be reading again AND discussing it .....Bon nuit did I remember that correctly ..we lived in France for two years , just 60 miles from Paris I was not a linguist ( my husband did remember his High School French though) and while we saw as much of France as we could ,. Paris was near and there was so much to see...and of course the Louvre was my fave especially when I saw Winged Vicrtory at Thamathrace Gee that looks wrong .. but they had a copy at the Art Museum and everytime I went (often ) I would stand entranced never dreaming one day I would see the real thing WOW a very special event for a small girl from the midwest ....see you later
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Ah, Anna, Welcome! Bienvenue! We are delighted to have you join us - your first book to read since your successful surgery. We are honored! Don't worry reading it now - we aren't beginning to discuss the book until April... ;)
I believe our French author - and our concierge herself must have spent much time admiring the Winged Victory of Samothrace in the Louvre - she is indeed elegant!
(http://www.artchive.com/artchive/g/greek/thumb/winged_victory_louvre.jpg)
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A quick question - will you try this link and tell me whether you can hear anything? Not sure how many compters can receive sound...You need to click the title in the little screen on the right - and wait a few seconds...
Gustav Mahler - Symphony #6 (http://www.last.fm/music/Gustav+Mahler/_/Symphony+No.+6%2C+2.+Scherzo.+Wuchtig)
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I can hear it JoanP.
BTW, The book has really grabbed me now... I really like it.
Joan Grimes
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I could not hear it, but have heard many other things on my computer.
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Is this our Anna who will be with us to discuss The Elegance of the Hedgehog? As JoanP said this is quite an honour from a lady who dwells in poetry almost exclusively. I am very happy about that and I remember that you mentioned to me you lived in France with your husband, you and Joan G can tell us so much about France. Did you every see a concierge while you were there? Because I am sure that when you stayed in France they still had many of them around.
JoanP. I can hear Mahler’s music Joan. Thank you for the link to the The Winged Victory of Samothrace, it seems to be as famous as Michaelangelo’s David, I have often wondered what her head would have looked like. I have been to the Louvre only once and it is so big that you have to concentrate on one area at a time, but I spent more time in the Musée d’Orsey with the Impressionsts.
Joan G. I am glad that the book is starting to ‘grab’ you, when I started reading it I felt the same.
Only 5 days before we start, I can’t wait.
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Yes, Joan, Gustav's "gusty" music comes forth.
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I can hear it. I had trouble turning it off, though.
I remember from my one trip to the Louvre stanmding and staring at the Winged Victory forever. Do you remember that old movie where Audrey Hepburn was running down the steps with the Winged Vicory behind her?
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I remember being startled at David.He is truly an amazing statue. Inside of course, but I think that he has to be. I love the Louvre and the old post office ( impressioists??) We do a different section of the louvre each time and are slowly working our way around. Last time, we joined a docent and she talked about only French painters of a certain period.. Way too many religous art, but she was interesting.. All in English yet. I adore the old post office. The architect truly did a wonderful rendition of a museum and the animal statues outside are wonderful. I have a picture of me and the
Rhino..
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I always go to the Louvre when I go to Paris...I think I have seen all of the permanent collection more than once.
However the Louvre always has some new exhibition that is there for a limited time. So there is always something that I have not seen. I have seen some really wonderful exhibitions there.
The D'Orsay is one of my favorite places in the world with so many impressionist there along with Millet's the Gleaners which I love all displayed in that wonderful old train station, a marvel of wonderful architecture. I really love that place. Oh I love Paris. Click to hear the music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_yN1R2b5M.
I also spend time in L'Orangerie where I love to spend hours in front of Monet's Water Lilies. There are so many impressionist painting there . Then there is the Musee Marmottan which is also a place to see more of Monet's Water Lilies along with other wonderful impressionist works. Of course these museums all have visiting exhibitions too that are so interesting.
If your taste is in Asian Art , The Guimet Museum is another fascinating place in Paris.
there are so many that you are never at a loss for art to look at. All of these museums have web sites also. You can look at them right here on the internet if you so desire. Of course a trip to Paris is preferable.
I have really gone on about the museums but Art is one of my obsessions.
Links to some of the mentioned museums. Just clik on each one to visit http://www.guimet.fr/-English]Musee Guimet (http://www.guimet.fr/-English-)
http://www.musee-orangerie.fr/]L'Orangerie (http://www.musee-orangerie.fr/)
http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/home.html]Musee D'Orsay (http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/home.html)
http://www.marmottan.com/uk/claude_monet/index.asp]Musee Marmottan (http://www.marmottan.com/uk/claude_monet/index.asp)
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/commun/home.jsp?bmLocale=en] Louvre (http://www.louvre.fr/llv/commun/home.jsp?bmLocale=en)
Joan Grimes
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It was good to hear that you are beginning to enjoy the book, again, JoanG. I hope the rest of you heard what Joan said earlier. There are some rough patches - in which the professor of philosophy weighs in - DON'T Be Discouraged...keep reading - it will be more than worth it - the sun will shine again!
Wonderful links, JoanG. I could spend all day getting lost in the museums - and always love Frank singing of Paris...and Chicago too...
JoanK...you couldn't turn off the Mahler link - that's funny- but not a bad thing, is it? Try this one - it plays for 10 minutes...hopefully Laura can hear it - or see it -
Strains of Gustav Mahler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jNmy-pBqz0&feature=related)
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Joan P, I did not mean to go off the deep end with museums but when I get started on them I have a hard time stopping. I just discovered that the Louvre site has past exhibitions. This will be a time killer for me since my favorite exhibition of all time at the Louvre was the Ingres exhibition and now I can go to the site and spend more time.
I will shut up now. :D
Joan Grimes
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Don't shut up Joan G. these are wonderful links to the famous museums. I just saw n the Orangerie museum link why they named Blue Period Picasso's paintings of that time. We can spend hours browsing through in each link. One thing I liked was the dark paint on the walls bringing out the best qualities of each painting. Our museums here all have light colored walls with sometimes inadequate sombre lighting.
It's good to listen to Mahler while we are on the computer JoanP and even only for 10 minutes.
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I saw the movie version of "The DeVinci Code", even though I didn't like the book, because I thought with a background of the Louvre, how bad could it be? I found out!! They filmed it in the dark, with only flshes of faces showing. Except for a 2 second shot of the DewVinci anatomy drawing, you couldn't see a thing except the floor. What a waste!
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Oh my goodness -- with those websites, who needs Hollywood! If you don't see me for a couple of days, you know I'm browsing through them.
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JoanP, I could hear Strains of Gustav Mahler. Computers have too many idiosyncrasies!
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May I quickly respond to JoanK's # 76 about The DaVinci Code .
I did not like the book either because it contains inaccuracies, beginning with the title.
The famous Renaissance man was born illegitimate in the small hamlet of Vinci in Tuscany
and was (until Dan Brown's book came out) known in the world as LEONARDO.
Da Vinci is NOT a last name and means, simply, from Vinci; (da) = from).
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/hdghogcvr.jpg) | "Prickly and popular novel on class and culture" -
"Central to the book's appeal is the compelling voice of its main character, Renée Michel, a 54-year-old Paris apartment-building concierge who struggles to hide her self-taught erudition and cultivation from snobby, rich tenants. She disdains their élitist notions of class and social order, but she knows the residents would be outraged at discovering what a deep grasp the hired help has of art and learning. So Renée masks her intellect behind the persona expected of her lowly station." Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1836659,00.html)
The second narrator in the book is the precocious 12 year old daughter of one of the tenants, who hides her intelligence from a world she finds meaningless. The two characters neatly mirror one another in a philosophical tale of contrasts which succeeds in resolving some issues of life and death.
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Discussion Schedule:
April 1-3 ~ Marx Preamble pgs.17-27 Discussion Topics (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/weekonehedgehogquestions.html)
April 4-10 ~ Camellias ~ pgs.31-129
April 11-14 ~ On Grammar ~ pgs.133-166
April 15-19 ~ Summer Rain ~ pgs.173-238
April 20-26 ~ Paloma ~ pgs. 241-315
April 27 ~ My Camellias ~ pgs. 316-325
Final Thoughts | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hdghog/DavidTroodG460.jpg)
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Topics for Pre-discussion
1. What do you know of hedgehogs and their habits? Do you see anything "elegant" about these critters?
2. Can you find information about this first-time author? We could use a link if you can copy it here.
3. This has been called a "philosophical fable"? Intimidated? What is your knowledge of philosophy?
4. How difficult must it be to have one's first novel immediately become an international best seller?
5. What is a "concierge"? Wouldn't you love this job in a posh Parisian neighborhood?
Relevant Links:
French-English Dictionary (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/);
Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Eloise (eloisede@sympatico.ca )
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Five more days...have you started to read the book? It's so hard to come in here and not start talking about it!!!
LauraD, tis good to know that you can hear Mahler now. Imagine sitting way back in your loge, TV blaring out in the front room, but you snug and cozy reading your favorite book, listening to Mahler...
Uh, oh...I've got to get out of here. It's getting so near. How is your library hold list moving, Jackie?
One thing you might want to do - if you are just starting out - Make a list of some of the unfamiliar words you come across. This is such a well-written book, I'm sure it is going to stretch us in many ways, vocabulary being just one of them.
A bientôt - talk to you soon!
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Five more days...have you started to read the book? It's so hard to come in here and not start talking about it!!!
LauraD, tis good to know that you can hear Mahler now. Imagine sitting way back in your loge, TV blaring out in the front room, but you snug and cozy reading your favorite book, listening to Mahler...
Uh, oh...I've got to get out of here. It's getting so near. How is your library hold list moving, Jackie?
One thing you might want to do - if you are just starting out - Make a list of some of the unfamiliar words you come across. This is such a well-written book, I'm sure it is going to stretch us in many ways, vocabulary being just one of them.
A bientôt - talk to you soon!
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We're getting close to lift off now !
I have just copied the schedule and noticed that the pagination in my copy is slightly different from that shown - my copy is likely to be simply a different edition published for sale in the antipodes - The Section Headings are the same of course - just thought you might like to know....
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Well I love the talk about museums My best friend and I used to go to the St Louis Museum as often as we could .. in nice weather we would take fresh fruit and sit on the grass and just look at the building when we were finished I remember when we were in Paris at the Mona Lisa they had a barrier of brass posts with a velvet rope to keep people away and this one man (wont call him a gentelman) went around it and touched the painting..What was he trying to prove?And all the Venus de Milo's...wish I were there right now..will check the web sites you posted Joan and know I will enjoy that I have visited the several museums in the past ...via the internet and when people ask what I do on the computer I tell them I VISIT FAMOUS PLACES
I started the book and in fact have had a bit of trouble putting it down I am not going to finish it until we reach that point here but it is tempting...
We always stayed at a small hotel a couple of blocks from the Champs we had a balcony and those wonderful robes and I don't know I recall someone who was in charge to welcome us and make sure we had everything we needed but we went to Europe in 53 and returned to the states in 57 .. I do recall leaving Germany after two years when my husband was reassigned to France and it was night time when all of the sudden out of the darkness we could see the lights of Paris ..I have to admit I was breathless to think we would be living in France for two years and Paris was only 60 miles from the base !!!! I feel breathless just remembering ...
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Anna, that sounds like a real hardship post - Paris, for six months! I so envy you - in hindsight! Tell us, do you have any art, art history background - or do you enjoy art - purely on your own terms?
It is with relief I hear you say you are having difficulty putting the book down. My concern is that some may become overwhelmed at the philosophical references - fearing that our author , professor of philosophy, assumes too much of us. Please, don't forget - our concierge is self-taught, not confined at all by educational viewpoints of the philosophers. You will be relieved to hear her discredit the great minds, shooting down their pronouncements as she reaches her own conclusions. Just remember this and you will be rewarded, I am sure.
Gum, it is good to know that the page numbers vary in different editions of the book. Does it help to have the titles of the starting chapters in the heading? Do you think we ought to put in the title of the start AND the ending chapters - or do you think what is there is enough?
Thanks for noting this!
Main Entry: an·ti·pode
Pronunciation: \ˈan-tə-ˌpōd\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural an·tip·o·des \an-ˈti-pə-ˌdēz\
Etymology: Middle English antipodes, plural, persons dwelling at opposite points on the globe, from Latin, from Greek, from plural of antipod-, antipous with feet opposite, from anti- + pod-, pous foot — more at foot
Date: 1549
1 : the parts of the earth diametrically opposite —usually used in plural —often used of Australia and New Zealand as contrasted to the western hemisphere
2 : the exact opposite or contrary
— an·tip·o·de·an \(ˌ)an-ˌti-pə-ˈdē-ən\ adjective or noun
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True Da is from, but so is Van and Von and a lot of other beginnings to surnames. As a genealogist, you must realize that last names are a relatively recent developement. Many last names indicate what someone did way back when.. Miller,Bush,Forest,Sawyer..
I read the first part and now I am beginning to wonder if I want to read the book. Sigh.. Oh well, I will give it my best try.
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I will give it my best try. Steph
Your best try - no author could ask for more! I'm sure you will find much to like, Steph. It is a challenge, yes, but lots of rewards along the way. I have to add here, that though you are not ugly, fat and stooped, I think you are very much like Renée - a voracious reader and a freethinker. I do hope you stay with it!
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I have a slave driver in another discussion :o BUT I have my copy and have read to page 100 thus far. I like it! I like it. I am happy to consider what you have written above here Joan :
Please, don't forget - our concierge is self-taught, not confined at all by educational viewpoints of the philosophers. You will be relieved to hear her discredit the great minds, shooting down their pronouncements as she reaches her own conclusions.
I was reading along , wading throug the philosophy saying "yeah, yeah" and neer thought about what you said. You are right she discredits some of the greatest. I love it. This should lend to a wonderful discussion. There is no bettr way to begin Philosophy 101 than thru the eyes of a disgruntled philosopher.
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Steph, we all start this way with this book, sort of a bit, shall we say blah, but this time I had to continue because there were so many unanswered questions about what went on in this lady's (concierge) mind and of course I was curious about what kind of people lived in those posh 'hôtels particuliers' and I wasn't sorry I continued because it's afterwards that you can't put it down.
Alf, Philosophy 101 than thru the eyes of a disgruntled philosopher. yes mam. Lots goes on that no one would suspect in that setting.
I talked about the book to my soon-to-be 18 yr old grand daughter. It would be right down her ally.
Only 4 days to go.
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Éloïse and JoanP, perhaps we should not forget that part of this book seems to be a deliberate send-up - and not only of class.
Furthermore, not all philosophical references - with the possible exception of phenomenology - require separate individual research, for there would hardly be time, but at least one literary reference turns out to be very important indeed.
:)
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JoanP I can't see that it would be necessary to change the heading because of differing pagination - the Section Headings are surely sufficient....
For some reason you caught my funny bone with the definition of antipodes ;D In the past I have often come across the word in all sorts of books and always in relation to Australia and New Zealand -and naturally it was often coupled with the phrase 'the ends of the earth' . When I was a child antipodes was used frequently enough in common parlance and printed matter but that frequency is not the case today. Amazing that we (the antipodeans) don't use the word to signify UK or USA... or Europe either. I guess the reason for that is that for so long our pioneer settlers regarded the UK particularly and also Europe as 'home' and certainly not as 'the ends of the earth' so using the word in relation to the 'old world' had the wrong connotations for them. I think this is true for recent immigrants too - but fourth generation Aussies like yours truly regard the antipodes as 'home'
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JOanP- One time we read a book ??? and I can not for the life of me recall which one, but you made a French dictionary link for us to refer to when needed. Do you remember that? I hate to take time out of your discussion trying to figure ask continually what a word means.
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Hopefully by April 1, our pc will be fixed and I will not be on the laptop. It is much easier to read the messages on the big screen. I have the book upstairs next to the computer, but may try to keep reading a bit more. Thus far, I am not overfond of the concierge..
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http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
Alf, these days for the translation I am doing, I like this translation site. You can put a string of words, or just one word. Mind you they are not 100% accurate for a word in a certain context that could mean something different.
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Alf,
A year or two ago we discussed Stendhal's The Red and the Black = Le Rouge et le Noir[/b].
Could this be the one you thought of?
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Thanks for the link, Eloise. I'm unable to get it to work, however. Will you test it before we put it in the heading?
It's not the French that's got me thumbing my dictionary - it's the English vocabulary! I wonder antipodeans are experiencing the same?
Here's another word - from the book jacket - our concierge is an "autodidact" - where did this word come from? Are you familiar with the word - the mot du jour?
Steph, I'm smiling at your comment about not liking the concierge - right after I got finished saying that she reminded me of you! :D
I am aware that many of you have started to read the book...and are trying to keep mum until Wednesday when we officially begin. I'd like to know what you think of the idea of getting up a page of discussion questions and linking it to the dates when they will be discussed. They wouldn't be visible unless you clicked the link. That way, you could keep them in mind while reading the pages and wouldn't have to go back when the discussion starts. What do you think?IF we do that - you'd have to promise not to start discussing the book, or the chapters until we all do on the stated dates. My question - would you, could you do that?
We've never done this before - supplied the topics for discussion before the discussion begins - BUT I'm thinking this might be helpful when discussing this book.
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JoanP
If I may, it might be useful to prepare our own glossary. :)It would certainly save time IMHO.
There's a 'stunner' on the first page of the Preamble that sent me to the dictionary.
"autodidact(n.)" is derived from the Greek. The Montessori Method, for example, is considered 'autodidactic(al)" (adj.)
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JoanP, I can open the link from my computer.
I think the best way to access it is to Google the word "Translation" and the first link is babelfish.yahoo.com
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El, I can click the link you provided - it opens, I click on French - English, type in a word, enter it and nothing happens. I just tried it again with the same result.
Maybe we'd better take this to the workroom. I think we can find another site if this isn't resoled.
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It works for me Eloise and Joan. I just typed in a French word, clicked translation to english and there it was. Thank you Eloise.
Traude- you are correct! You win the award. It was Le Rouge et le Noir that Joan provided the French dictionary for. Or was it Maryal? I don't remember, honestly.
We've never done this before - supplied the topics for discussion before the discussion begins - BUT I'm thinking this might be helpful when discussing this book.
Joan, i love that idea. We could talk about a thousand things without directly relating to the novel itself. I think it lends for a more interesting read when you first read the questions prior to the story. It makes one take pause with a grand epiphany of "AHA!! I think I understand the question now."
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When you are in babelfish.com you find the languages French - English and when that's up, type your word - or copyh the word - in the message box and click on the word "translate". A new page opens up with two boxes, Top box is the English word bottom box the French word you wanted translated.
Once I put in a string of words, it worked beautifully. Another time it didn't work at all because I guess the robot ;D doing this didn't understand.
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Well, there's a vote of one to put out the questions for the first discussion...Andy, I'm going to do it now - put them up in the chart right next to the dates, so that you can only see the questions if you cliick the link. Everyone must promise not to start discussing the book until April 1 though - concerned for those who haven't begun the book. We'll be closing this pre-discussion site and opening a new one on the first...April Fool's Day, isn't it?
Eloise, the link now works ;D I've put it in the heading...
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What a weekend this is. I had my 4 daughters and a 3 grown grands with one of their friend and my gg daughter last night for dinner, some of them stayed overnight and now I'am going out to dinner. Tomorrow I will be home and will be able to concentrate on Hedgehog more.
I think you have a great idea here Joan about the quesitons. Thank you for putting up the translation link.
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JoanP : I think it's a good idea to put up the questions at this stage - only a couple of days to go....this antipodean had no trouble with autodidact assigning it the meaning of self-educated -but now you've raised it I'll have to check it out in the Dictionary - there are other words in Hedgehog which gave me pause to consider.
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Good idea to put the questions in the heading ahead of time, but under a link. People can read and ponder their thoughts on the questions, and then begin the next section of reading without the future reading tainting their thoughts on the prior section.
Hope that makes sense!
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Just as a side here!
My dad used to have "a word a day" for me when I came downstairs in the morning. He made me first guess at the meaning by dissecting the word's prefix or suffix, etc. before I was allowed to look it up in the dictionary.
One morning he was not at home and he left a sentence that went something like this.
H.Charles Travis (my dad's name) is an "autodidact!"
Isn't that something - and here I have the word staring me in the face 50 yrs. later.
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When I read that word "Autodidact" it immediately made me think of my mother, she mentioned it when talking about herself Alf. Our French newspapers often quote it.
The link "translation" in the heading doesn't work for me right now and I was wondering how it worked for you all. It takes me to a totally different site.
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Eloise- I don't think it is unusual for people of our parent's generation to become "autodidacts" do you? The emphasis on schooling was much different then than it is today.
My dad was an avid reader and truly enjoyed just thumbing thru reference books. In those day I suppose if one wished to become knowledgable they had to teach themselves.
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I'm so curious to get the book and follow your discussion along. On the lib waiting list.
www.thefreedictionary.com is a good link to put on your desktop or at the top of your favorites for word definitions that aren't of another language.
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Welcome, welcome MarjV. I hope you can get the book soon to join in our discussion. We enjoy having you joining us.
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The translation link works well, try it, you will see. Thanks JoanP for fixing it, I forgot to mention it after it was fixed.
If a translation doesn't seem to fit the text, just ask. I heard today about how the web translates. It looks for words or a string on words anywhere on the world wide web and copies it verbatim regardless of the context and it doesn't always fit the content well, but it gives you a good idea.
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JoanP: I printed out the questions and will have them as I re-read the pages for April 1. I think it is a good idea to have the q's ahead of time, as we read.
I have enjoyed this book, so far. I agree the concierge does come across as an old curmudgeon, but my interest is aroused. I definitely am hooked and wonder where this story is going. This is going to be enjoyable.
Evelyn
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Good morning, MarjV - Welcome to our group, to Paris, home of elegance - and hedgehogs! Thanks for providing a link to an ENGLISH dictionary. I was just telling Eloise that we will be needing an ENGLISH-ENLISH dictionary more than FRENCH-ENGLISH! ;D Our author has quite an extensive vocabulary on her, doesn't she? I love the challenge.
Andy, that's a sweet memory of your father challenging you with a word-a-day. And with "autodidact" too. I suppose there are different levels of "autodidacting" - is it a verb too, do you think? I mean, our concierge may have taught herself from a young child, or maybe she didn't get to high school - or beyond. To me, that will be interesting to learn. When we get to the new discussion, we will have to have a growing "glossary" as Traudee has suggested.
Hopefully your library hold list will move quickly, Marj. Have you heard anything, Jackie? Is there any way to know where you stand on the wait list? I do hope you both stay with us until your names come up.
Evelyn, I'm glad you find the book engaging and the questions useful. You don't have to limit yourself to them, however. Your own observations are what make these conversations hum!
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My interest has been piqued, I couldn't leave now even though the book isn't here yet. There are five holds on five copies, several waiting on hold shelves, and no indication of where I am on the list. Soon.
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I ordered a used book through Amazon but never received it - so am waiting for my second request.
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Jacquie and Kidsal, this book is so cheap, it's only $12. here at Chapters. Amazon said that the US gets next day delivery, I don't know if it's for new books or for used ones. I buy used books too at Amazon who emailed me to say it takes about 10 to 15 days to arrive in Canada.
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Kidsal, we're rooting for you. Hopefully the book will arrive in the next few days. Don't go away, we need our Antipodeans' viewpoints!
At some time this evening, Pat will come tiptoeing in here to shut down this prediscussion to open the new - and we can actually talk about the book. She might bump into you, Gum!
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You are invited to move to the new discussion of The Elegance of the Hedgehog (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=398.0)
This discussion will be read-only.