Author Topic: Moonstone, The by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online  (Read 56147 times)

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #360 on: May 06, 2013, 05:29:51 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

The Moonstone
Wilkie Collins


 In T.S. Eliot called The Moonstone "the first and greatest English detective novel." Told from the standpoint of several, very different, very British characters, it is the funny, irreverent, dramatic, romantic, very British story of the theft of an Indian jewel taken from the eye of an idol and then stolen again from a very British country house by mysterious Indians. Come and join us: I'll bet you can't guess "whodunit" and what they did!
  
 Discussion Schedule:
April 15-21: Through section XI in Gabriel Betteredge's narrativeo
April 21-25:   Betteredge's narrative, up to THE END OF THE FIRST PERIOD
April 26-May 1: SECOND PERIOD: first two narratives:Miss Clack and Mr. Bruff
May 2-6: the first part of Franklin Blake's narrative, through Chapter VII, ending with "I saw her, and heard her, no more".
May 7-11: Franklin Blake's narrative, Chapter VIII to end, all of Ezra Jennings' Narrative.

Related Links::Gutenberg electronic text

For Your Consideration
May 7-11: The rest of Franklin Blake's narrative, and all of Ezra Jennings' narrative.


1. Events in this section involve several points of medical science, all accepted as true in Collins’ time.  Which ones are still accepted today?  Does this matter for our enjoyment of the story?

2. Even in their first, casual encounters, Ezra Jennings and Franklin Blake each find the other interesting, hard to forget.  Why would there be such an attraction?

3. Jennings is the latest in a series of characters who are wholly or partly not English in their origin or thoughts.  How does Collins use these traits?

4. Has Collins effectively blended suspense, pathos, and humor in this section?

5. Inspector Cuff has been proven wrong. What is Collins' view of the detective? What is yours?

6. We now know who took the moonstone, but the mystery is not solved. Where do you think the moonstone is and how did it get there?  

DISCUSSION LEADERS: JoanK &  PatH



JudeS

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #361 on: May 06, 2013, 05:38:36 PM »
I'm ready to get to the end.
My thoughts are mean ones.
Collins got paid by the installment. The longer he dragged the story out the longer he got paid for his weekly chapters.
I am ready to get off this roller coster and onto something else.
That doesn't mean I am not enjoying the book , but enough is enough.
I am ready to finish the book but not the discussion.

JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #362 on: May 06, 2013, 05:54:13 PM »
Do we agree that Wilkie C set out to write a mystery - rather than a romance, as the title indicates?  I see a big difference between Dickens' tales and what Collins is attempting here.  He  has set has set out to keep us guessing, looking under every rock for that diamond.  While "fleshing" out his characters, expounding on human nature, he's also providing clues to the mystery.

 I am quite amused by the way he points his finger at each new character, and then backs away as we find that character likeable after all.  A matter of first impressions being off the mark. Ezra Jennings seemed real suspicious at first, but after the negative "gipsy description"  I knew he'd turn out to be a good guy...before Collins actually presented his narrative.  I'm at the point where I'm wondering why Betteredge and Bruff are both in league against him.  These two I trust and they don't trust EJ.  Wilkie has his work cut out for him - proving the instincts of both of these men to be wrong...as well as proving that Rachel didn't see what she claims she did.
 
I don't  "hate" any of the characters.  Godfrey Ablewhite is not likable, probably won't be until the end...but I feel sorry for him the same way I feel about Miss Clack.  These aren't bad guys.  Neither are the Indians.  They are attempting to retrieve the diamond for a noble reason.  I don't know what will happen to the diamond...my hope is that it goes back to India with them.

I'm looking forward to an explanation why Sergeant Cuff was so certain that nobody stole the diamond.  DId he think that Rachel has it?  If not, what did he think happened to it.  This was the man who knew everything, the last we saw him.

I'm enjoying the ride...really don't want to rush to the end of the line just to get to the end of the line.  Maybe it's because I haven't read this before.  I can see where those who have seen all the sights before are eager to get off the train.  Can't we spend just a few more days reading/discussing this experiment section, or are we to start talking about the solution  today - before everyone has finished?

JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #363 on: May 06, 2013, 06:16:08 PM »
Am I the only one here who doesn't like Franklin Blake? Why do we tolorate him living off everyone else's money? And why do all the women think they have to clean up his messes?

JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #364 on: May 06, 2013, 06:17:10 PM »
JoanP: we definately need to discuss the experiment!

Frybabe

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #365 on: May 06, 2013, 06:58:27 PM »
JoanK, I thought FB inherited a bunch of money at some point in the book. I guess a lot of youngsters (gals included because occupations for them was still frowned upon) from rich families sponged off their parents for quite some time. I don't recall once any mention of FB gaining an occupation. At least Godfrey involved himself in charity work. Even so, he seems to be occupied in trying to marry into wealthier family money.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #366 on: May 06, 2013, 07:10:02 PM »
What confuses me about Ezra is the description of his hair - in one part it is described as black on top and all white around the sides and then someplace it says he is piebald which to me means he has no hair on top and thought maybe it is his dark skin that is the big contrast between what hair he has - in fact the picture I get of that makes him feel less threatening - the other two colored or all and no color hair makes him seem like a threat and why is Franklin giving him so much information - so far I am back in his lab/office after he went his way on the road to meet a patient and Franklin impatiently waits for him putting off the meeting with Betteredge.

When I flip characters men for women all I see is there is no man who is made to appear as flibberty gibbet reacting slightly hysterical as Rachel and no man is tied to his poverty with no way of changing his circumstances as Drusilla and no man, even the gardener as low man on the totem pole, would see a physical impediment as side tracking him from acceptance or a future nor any man whose role in life is limited to sitting around on chairs as the elder mothers in the story - and so I see Collins simply writing women characters as powerless caricatures of the day - I do not see any of these women similar to Caddy Jellyby/Turveydrop or Mrs. Bagnet  - I guess we could see similarities between Miss Clack and Mrs. Jellyby

You really opened up my eyes Jude to how shallow the bad guys are described and yet, I wonder does that mean they are really not so bad and we are simply trying to figure out who really is the bad guy so that giving the bad guy a full description would give away the mystery.

I do like how Dickens gives us every kind of character in his stories so that he is not limiting all the women to lightweights with no power dependent upon the men and using their feminine wiles to get what they want.  However, Collins is brilliant to have the hero now suspect as the villain.  

I wonder why the three areas of England - does the setting of these three areas have any cross over to the story - the place in the country - London - Brighton. I can see a play on words with Brighton ironically the location for the raging Applewhite but why do they keep flitting off to London during the story?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Frybabe

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #367 on: May 06, 2013, 07:20:10 PM »
I've seen one or two men who had black hair on the sides and a white stripe through the middle, but that may have been on TV. I am more used to seeing men with hair one color and beards another.

Zulema

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #368 on: May 06, 2013, 09:17:36 PM »
To reply to you, Joan K, I did not feel sorry for either Ezra or Rosanna, they are characters in a novel put there for the writer's purpose.  I sympathized with Jennings because he is thoughtful and informed yet repels people by his appearance.  Rosanna is malformed but since she is a servant girl, I don't think people are repelled by her malformation and limp to the same degree. I somehow have not felt any sympathy for her actions, including her attempt to cover up for Franklin.  Collins having her acquire the material for the (fancy) nightgown, sewing it  (where did she learn this?), devising a secure hiding place and instructions, then writing a long explanatory letter (in the best English) seem to me far-fetched on Collins's part.  It is a clever device to completely undo Franklin's sense of self and give himself over to Betteredge but not quite.  Betteredge is against the experiment because it upsets his sense of order and convention.  With Bruff it is more a question of logic and facts.  Collins had to wind up the novel, and the solving of a mystery to the satisfaction of its readers is to this day a difficult proposition.

And to answer another comment,  we are supposed to like Franklin within the book's context.  He is a young man of great integrity above all, and the descendant of another, we mustn't forget.

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #369 on: May 06, 2013, 11:16:57 PM »
We're missing someone.  Scottieluvr/Pamela, have you given up on us, or are you just taking a break?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #370 on: May 07, 2013, 09:11:49 AM »
I cannot find where Jennings is introduced to us - is he Indian - that is what I thought and how did he hook up as Dr. Candy's assistant? This is why I am not so sure about reading on the kindle - it is so hard for me to backtrack to find things especially since there are no page numbers but whatever this other monster number is 5000 something. And then telling me how many minutes left - what is that all about - do they even know how fast or slow I read? Well neither here nor there at this point I am not buying the book but I will know better the next time. And so that is why I am asking for help to explain further Jennings. He does seem helpful to Franklin and yes, I thought I read that Franklin had from an Aunt received a sizable inheritance either while he was in Europe or just before he left for Europe.

Interesting that we have opium featured - was not this the drug of choice for Sherlock Holmes - reading here both Collins and Dickinson - and didn't we read Sherlock Holmes in the past 2 years - all three authors touch on the important social issues of the day. Jane Austin wrote earlier in the century however, little has changed in the way wealth worked and its importance is still paramount, the missionary zeal for men and women and the pompous in the church is used to describe characters similar to the work of Anthony Trollope in his Barchester Chronicles. The importance of the law in which Dickinson shows how debouched the system that a Sherlock Holmes could only exist if the police and legal system were wanting - and now we have the issue of opium that I do not remember Dickinson including as an issue but we have it as a feature by Collins and Arthur Canon Doyle. And what is amazing to me looking at the dates while all this is going on in England we are fighting the most devastating war with the highest number of dead in our history of wars followed by the continuous push taking over Indian lands. 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #371 on: May 07, 2013, 09:28:52 AM »
Quote
" I do not remember Dickinson including opium as an issue" Barbara

Barb...I'm thinking that you are referring to Charles Dickens here?  Opium, Laudanum was an accepted drug for pain to ease pain at this time.  Both Dickens and Collins suffered from gout... I don't remember if Dickens became addicted to and abused opium, but do remember the part OPIUM played in his last novel...the Mystery of Edwin Drood.  I remember from the details of the the choirmaster's addiction that Charles Dickens was quite familiar with this addiction.  It known at the time that Wilkie Collins shared this addiction.

Just found this... 
Quote
"Charles Dickens -The author of A Tale of Two Cities and A Christmas Carol was addicted to opium for many years and used the drug heavily right up to the time of his death (by massive stroke)." 


Quote
"Opium was regularly prescribed for medical reasons by Collins's doctor, Frank Beard, as a pain killer and sedative - never for mere gratification.  Despite various attempts to give up the habit, using hypnosis by John Elliotson in 1863 and morphia by injection in 1869, Collins took increasingly large doses 'by the tablespoon' until in later life he became totally dependent."
 http://www.wilkie-collins.info/wilkie_collins_opium.htm




JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #372 on: May 07, 2013, 10:01:10 AM »
I'm looking for the first introduction of Ezra Jennings into the plot.  In the beginning of Chapter IX in Franklin Blake's narrative -  I believe this is the first time Franklin comes face to face with Jennings - following his visit with Mr. Candy on his teturn to Yorkshire.   I remember being suspicious of Jennings the minute I read that he took over for Mr. Candy after Mr. Candy became ill the night of Rachel's birthday dinner.  The poor man cannot remember what it was he wanted to tell Franklin about that night...

Collins makes us aware of Jenning's striking appearance...namely  his "parti-coloured" or later described as  "piebald" hair.  I'd never associated piebald with humans...horses, dogs, maybe  - Jennings' hair was black on top and white on the sides.  This seems to suggest mixed blood - implied that he was a social outcast, because of this... "foreign." It is suggested he came from the colonies.  We are to assume he is "Indian."  His appearance seems to be the main reason people shy away from him.   He's  the doctor now, and soon we learn he is suffering from some unspecified disease or illness...and also is addicted to laudanum - just like the author!  

 

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #373 on: May 07, 2013, 10:08:20 AM »
hhhu - that means an intake of breath - yes Dickens - got carried away and did not check the spell check - ah so - anyhow I had no idea that Collins himself was addicted - seems to be a normal rather than as today we give this addiction all sorts of cultural opinions. Had not read the Mystery of Edwin Drood although I saw the TV Brit version and did not know that the use of opium was included in the story  - I just think it is fascinating to see through reading the issues of the day and by comparing several authors writing during the same time in history including the same issues in their stories I can't help but imagine they were touching on the issues of the day. And more amazing is that at this time we in the states are reading Longfellow, Hawthorn, Emerson, Whitman, Twain, Harte and Alcott - who present a very different picture of life.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #374 on: May 07, 2013, 10:09:40 AM »
Loose ends: Barb, while Franklin Blake was abroad after the theft of the Moonstone, his father died, leaving him a considerable estate.  Before then, he had a reasonable income (allowance, I assume) which he managed to overspend.

Yes, JoanP, I'm pretty sure that the first time Franklin gets to converse with Ezra Jennings is at the end of his visit to Mr. Candy.  But he has seen Jennings several times before--once when Jennings looks in on Betteredge to give him the weekly list of sick people in the town who could use a gift of medicinal wine, once at the railway station.  Each time, Blake is unaccountably struck by Jennings, and somehow fascinated.

We never learn what the non-English half of Jennings is.  He says he was born in one of the colonies.  "my father was English, but my mother..."  He breaks off here.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #375 on: May 07, 2013, 10:16:36 AM »
ah so thanks both JoanP and PatH for filling in Jennings and how he is introduced to us. And so it was the Dad's death - What an amazing bit of research Jennings accomplishes giving Franklin a key to what Dr. Candy could not remember but what he said while he was ill. I was glued to that whole bit.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #376 on: May 07, 2013, 11:17:52 AM »
We had a very good discussion of Dickens' Edwin Drood here.  Indeed, one of the main characters, John Jasper, is an opium addict.  The book opens with a scene in an opium den, and since it's told from the point of view of Jasper's delusions, it takes a while to figure out what on earth is going on, unless you are a Sherlock Holmes fan.  If you are, you recognize a very similar scene from one of the short stories.  Holmes wasn't an opium addict.  Cocaine was his thing.

Collins said in an introduction to the book that he wrote Miss Clack's narrative while taking huge amounts of opium for a very painful bout of gout.  He knew the effects of the drug very well, and his description of Ezra Jennings' struggles are assumed to be semi-autobiographical.

All this was legal, and accepted medical practice at the time.  It seems to have taken a long time for people to realize just how dangerous the drug can be.

JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #377 on: May 07, 2013, 02:47:06 PM »
BARB:  "And more amazing is that at this time we in the states are reading Longfellow, Hawthorn, Emerson, Whitman, Twain, Harte and Alcott - who present a very different picture of life."

What a fascinating point! Another universe! what accounts for the difference, do you all think?

JudeS

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #378 on: May 07, 2013, 05:56:22 PM »
JoanK
What accounts for the difference between the American and the British authors?

Just off the top of my head I would say two things:
1) England is an old country with many traditions, much history and Royalty( born to their positions).
     America is a young country just beginning to make traditions and its history is very recent. It is trying to be a real Democracy without Royalty and inherited titles.

2)England is a small country surrounded by water. It is civilized and settled everywhere.It's new frontiers are countries which it conquers.
    America is a large country. At the time much unsettled or in the throes of being settled. For the most part the people (and authors) look inward toward their growing country for meaning and adventure and struggle (Indian wars, Civil War etc.).

This is not a full answer but I think it has many kernels of truth.
     

BarbStAubrey

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #379 on: May 07, 2013, 06:47:56 PM »
Yes, Jude without "Royalty, a real Democracy" in all things including how a man is measured and how if he is not wealthy through an inheritance there is no blot but only opportunity.

To further your thought about the newness of America I am remembering when we read The Brave Vessel in preparation for reading Shakespeare's Tempest we learned how because of the Reformation, which represented for England a sense of freedom from the past, its constrictions and traditions, this had folks believing in a 'Golden Age' with the 'New' World representing the secluded, unspoiled place where the Golden Age would flower. During the time of Dickens and Collins we had just experienced a national horror however, most of the west was still being settled with America reminded of its closeness to the land and the ever expanded sense of great opportunity for self determination - really an extension of the Golden Age which is the cauldron dipped into by the American authors during this time in history.

Come to think of it not only would the story be a reaction to what happened in India but the Opium wars were going on at this time with England and China during the early war 1839-42 and the later war including all western nations represented in China 1856 -60 - I did not realize till I just read that Opium was grown in India and the first Opium war was about England wanting more tea using opium in trade. And so more sublet connections in the Moonstone with India and Opium.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

salan

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #380 on: May 08, 2013, 05:53:33 AM »
Jude S., I am also ready to be finished with this book.  I have about 30 pages left & will finish today.  In my opinion, the book has gone on a little too long.
Sally

JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #381 on: May 08, 2013, 08:49:51 AM »
Even when you're finished, Sally, we'd like to hear what you think of the book - besides the fact that Mr. Collins has gone on "a little too long." ;)  I'm interested to know if you - or anyone understands what Path has observed -  Blake is drawn  to Jennings from the beginning.  What does he find so fascinating about him?  Granted he looks different.  Is it his soft dark eyes?  How does Collins explain this mutual attraction?  

Zulema pointed out that we are supposed to like Franklin Blake - "a man of great integrity."  I'm not so sure about his integrity.  He did, at great personal risk, bring the diamond back to Yorkshire, but the picture of him I got from the beginning was that of an irresponsible spendthrift... - though very likable.  Everyone likes him, in spite of his shortcomings...including Jennings, apparently.  But what is it that draws Franklin likes  Jennings?  It seems that Mr. Candy saw something in Jennings too. He took him on as his assistant when no one else would hire him.   This was a  sympathy, a trust,  that Betteredge and Bruff did not share.



JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #382 on: May 08, 2013, 01:58:48 PM »
Great points, Jude and Barbara. I had never thought before in terms of comparing the literature of different countries at the same time in history, but it brings up all kinds of points.

It occurs to me that Betteridge represents an older generation's ideas, and Franklin (in some ways) the new generation, with all his foreign ideas and influences. He (the "new" generation) is attracted to the foreign and strange, and Betteridge (the old generation) suspicious of the same.

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #383 on: May 08, 2013, 08:34:47 PM »
It looks like everyone has already finished off the book, or is ready to.  Let's take about another day to talk about this section, through Ezra Jennings' experiment and its outcome, then add on the remainder of the book.

Zulema

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #384 on: May 08, 2013, 09:27:27 PM »
I guess I shouldn't say much more today about the plot.  Wait for tomorrow.  By "integrity" I mean how Franklin Blake relates to other people, his truthfulness, his lack of malice, his honorable dealings with his fellowmen and women; and I think he senses the same qualities in Jennings, and he is right in doing so.

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #385 on: May 08, 2013, 09:40:49 PM »
In his preface Collins says
"In some of my former novels, the object proposed has been to trace the influence of circumstances upon character.  In the present story I have reversed the process.  The attempt made here is to trace the influence of character on circumstances.  The conduct pursued, under a sudden emergency, by a young girl, supplies the foundation on which I have built this book."

Various opinions have been expressed of Rachel's behavior.  Now that we know what really happened, what should Rachel have done?  She sees the man she loved steal her diamond.  She realizes that, in spite of her horror at this, she still loves him and can't bear for him to be caught.  How could she handle it?  What else could she have done?

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #386 on: May 08, 2013, 09:49:56 PM »
Zulema, we're already discussing Jennings' story, except for the final bit, so say what you like up through there.

I agree with you that Franklin sees the integrity in Jennings and responds to it.  Why does he see it when others don't?  Perhaps his education abroad and his travels make him more willing to look beyond the difference in a person to see what he's really like.  There are other bases for attraction too.

JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #387 on: May 09, 2013, 09:53:23 AM »
Would you agree that Franklin Blake is the central character of the book?   From what Wilkie has written in his Preface, as PatH just quoted, his character determines circumstances too, as much as Rachel's does, don't you think?

What might  Rachel have done?  For starters, she could have stopped Franklin in the act, as soon as she saw him take the stone.  His trance state would have been obvious and Mr. Candy would have confessed to dosing him in the morning.  But, we wouldn't have a plot then, would we? ;D

JoanK - I think you're right...Mr. Betteredge and Mr. Bruff are of another generation - capable of change though, as  we see both of them charmed by Ezra Jennings.  Poor Jennings, a terminal illness, an addiction, and now the loss of his only friend in the world.  More sympathetic a creature than Rosanna, in my opinion - both smitten by the charming Mr. Blake.

Jonathan, I meant to thank you for fixing the image in my mind, of Rosanna's scheme to lure her beloved - so close, right over the Shivering Sands where her body lay.  Collins' readers must have been swooning over this!  


JoanP

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #388 on: May 09, 2013, 09:59:42 AM »
For me, the big unanswered question - what made Sergeant Cuff so certain that the diamond was not stolen?  How did he know it was an "inside" job?  Does he know it is still in the house?
Is it?  When the experiment failed and Franklin fell asleep due to the overdose, why did they all take off for London?  Do they no longer believe it is in Franklin's room? What am I missing?

And this probably isn't important...but did any of you find it odd that the floor of Rachel's sitting room was covered with pins?  Maybe Penelope knew something about that. What did you think when you read that - anything?

Jonathan

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #389 on: May 09, 2013, 01:54:36 PM »
'How did he (Seargent Cuff) know it was an "inside" job?'

That puzzled me too, JoanP. I finally accepted the hints that Cuff himelf provided, that this was another family scandal and he was brought in for damage control. The Moonstone had been a problem in the family for fifty years. John Herncastle, the 'bad guy' in the story, was turned into the blacksheep of the family when he returned to England with the diamond. His sister refused to have the murderer in her house.

'Smitten by the charming Mr Blake.' I think that's the key to many questions in the book. Everybody liked him. Several loved him. Rosanna's love  must have captivated many readers. She's the true romantic in the book. And she tells her story with such honesty. Compare that with Miss Clack's casuitry. The thief Rosanna and the holier-than-thou Drusilla.

Franklin was Betteredge's favorite in the family.

And then there is the unusual 'attraction' between Franklin and Ezra Jenkins. I think the author sneaked a little homoerotic red herring into his plot with this attraction.

Jonathan

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #390 on: May 09, 2013, 02:02:52 PM »
Jude raised a very interesting idea when she suggested the differences between national literatures. Let's also take into account another mentioned in the book. The French novels! Still talked about. In the U.S., one must always keep in mind the Puritan attitudes that were so pervasive for so long.

Frybabe

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #391 on: May 09, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »
Question: What British colonies are likely to have produced a "gipsy complexion" on Mr. Jennings? The only ones I can think of might be Gibraltar or Malta. Cyprus became British for a while in 1878, after the book was written. Minorca was held for only a few years, 1798 to 1802. 

JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #392 on: May 09, 2013, 04:02:12 PM »
JONATHAN: it was Barb who brought up the differences in literature. It is fascinating. And then you throw the French in, how were they different? (Hmmm. What were the Italians writing? The Germans?).

I'm begining to sound like Brtteridge with his influences on Franklin Blake.


JoanK

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #393 on: May 09, 2013, 04:09:06 PM »
JOANP: so someone finally commented: after the big experiment we STILL don't know what happened to the moonstone. In the experiment, Franklin just dropped it. Where is it? In the bank? How did it get there?

Tommorrow, we read the end, and all is revealed!

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #394 on: May 09, 2013, 04:28:11 PM »
Question: What British colonies are likely to have produced a "gipsy complexion" on Mr. Jennings? The only ones I can think of might be Gibraltar or Malta. Cyprus became British for a while in 1878, after the book was written. Minorca was held for only a few years, 1798 to 1802.  
Jennings is fortyish, so he would have been born 1800 or after.  If you scroll down past 2 maps in this link, you will see a bar chart of what was part of the Empire at different times.  It could have been India, any of a number of Caribbean places, or Australia.  I had sort of assumed the Caribbean, for no good reason except there was a lot of intermarrying there, but India would fit well too.


http://www.atlasofbritempire.com/

JudeS

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #395 on: May 09, 2013, 05:46:10 PM »
Re: Jennings
I'm sure it says somewhere that he came from the Carribean Islands. I think probably Jamaica which belonged to England from 1622 to 1960 (approx.).

Joan K
  You are the one who asked about the differences between American and British Lit. during the same years.
I answered you and Barb added to my answer.

Frybabe

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #396 on: May 09, 2013, 07:36:00 PM »
I always thought of gypsies as being of Eastern European decent (Romany). That is not necessarily so according to several sources I checked. It could mean that Jennings looked Egyptian because some believed that they originated in Egypt. Today they are believed to have originated in northern India.

 The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) states a 'gipsy' is a
member of a wandering race (by themselves called Romany), of Indian origin, which first appeared in England about the beginning of the 16th c.
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) states a 'gipsy' is a
member of a wandering race (by themselves called Romany), of Indian origin, which first appeared in England about the beginning of the 16th c.

So, those who speculated Jennings could be of Indian origin may be close to the mark.
A little off the subject, but if you are interested here is what Wikipedia has to say about the Romani (Gypsy) people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Romani_people#Origin


PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #397 on: May 10, 2013, 11:25:37 AM »
The floodgates are open.  We can talk about any part of the book now.  Now doubt JoanK and I will think of some questions and put them up.

I think "gypsy complexion" was used to mean dark-skinned,  without necessarily implying gypsy origin.  I'm pleased to read that article.  So they've done genetic testing and confirmed the Indian origin of gypsies.

Zulema

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #398 on: May 10, 2013, 12:42:43 PM »
I am not sure why Collins found it necessary to kill Godfrey off.  The Indians could have easily gotten the Moonstone from him and escaped, but what would have been his punishment, if any, otherwise. I have to say I thought he was the culprit all along not for any plot clues but just looking at his character traits.  Collins makes him out to be a thorough cad.  I am glad I finally read the book, though many questions are left unanswered in it, even the silly one about Franklin's heavy cigar habit which Rachel disliked and his withdrawal symptoms that led to the possibility of the trick on him.  He is back smoking his cigars and Rachel is marrying him regardless, but Collins was probably too much in pain to worry little details.

PatH

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Re: The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins ~ April/May Book Club Online
« Reply #399 on: May 10, 2013, 02:36:12 PM »
Good for you for guessing, Zulema.  It's been so long since the first time I read the book that I'm not sure, but I don't think I did.

I wondered about the cigars too.  Since Franklin has just gone through the worst bit of giving them up, he ought to continue.  But somehow neither of the happy pair looked like they were in the mood for bothering to negotiate smoking issues.

I wonder if Collins smoked?  He seems to feel strongly about the pain of giving it up.