That Old Cape Magic by Richard Russo ~ November Book Club Online

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That Old Cape Magic          by Richard  Russo

From Bookmarks magazine:
Following Bridge of Sighs—a national best seller hailed by The Boston Globe as “an astounding achievement” and “a masterpiece”—Richard Russo gives us the story of a marriage, and of all the other ties that bind, from parents and in-laws to children and the promises of youth.
 The storytelling is flawless throughout, moments of great comedy and even hilarity alternating with others of rueful understanding and heart-stopping sadness, and its ending is at once surprising, uplifting and unlike anything this Pulitzer Prize winner has ever written.


From The Washington Post
Every year, Jack Griffin's parents would drive from the Midwest, where they were both unhappy-to-miserable college professors, to spend two weeks in a rented cottage somewhere on the beautiful island of Cape Cod, Mass., and as they crossed the Sagamore Bridge they would, as if on cue, begin to sing "That Old Cape Magic," their altered version of "That Old Black Magic."

Questions for Chapters 1 - 3

1. What were your first thoughts as you began reading this book?
Is it different in some way from what you might have expected - less sunny, despite the glorious ambiance - more serious?

2. After reading the first three chapters (52 pages), what is your impression of Griffin, the narrator?
He does acknowledge his "petulance" in the very first paragraph of Chapter One  but seems reluctant to apologize to Joy, his wife.  

3. Do you think the appearance of Griffin's mother in the first chapter, "A Finer Place", is essential  by way  of an explanation (if one were neded)  for Griffin's behavior?

4. Were you amused or appalled reading Griffin's revelations of his parents' professional and personal lives?

Discussion Leader: Traude  

Traude will be along shortly to open "That Old Cape Magic by Richard Russo ~ November Book Club Online."

[CallieOK]

x marks my spot.

[Babi]

Just locating a seat 'til Traude arrives.

[straudetwo]

Good morning!  Greetings to CallieOK and Babi, the early birds. Thank you.
Now that we have regained the hour we "lost" in the spring, things are, one feels, where they should be.

So, what do we think, what can we say, about this book?  
The tale is told by the narrator, who's also the main protagonist.  
It is his perspective of events and his quotes of what other characters said.  
Is the narrator trustworthy? Reliable?
For now we may as well consider Griffin to be reliable.

(Some of you may remember that a  few years ago we had occasion to question exactly the same point in a memorable discussion of Kashuo Ishiguro's The Remains of the Day, made into a beautiful film.)

At this point in our story Griffin's malaise and palpable dissatisfaction are the focus.

[salan]

Hello-I'm here and waiting for the discussions to begin.  I'll be checking in periodically to read comments (and perhaps add my own).
Sally

[jane]

I'm here also and eager to see others' take on this family (?) of characters.


jane

[Gumtree]

I'm here too - willing, if not quite ready. I'm just off to reread those first few chapters so I wont give away any spoilers. I'll be back in the morning - my morning.

[ginny]

Gulp.  Well in the interest of starting something off I'll start, tho it's  kind of hard to even start, isn't it? I don't know what this book is about, which will  be obvious from this post, despite having finished it and now rereading it. That makes it difficult to talk. What IS it about, do you think?

I love Traude's questions in the heading:


1. What were your first thoughts as you began reading this book?
Is it different in some way from what you might have expected - less sunny, despite the glorious ambiance - more serious?

My first thoughts were what an exceedingly pretentious, unpleasant pair his parents were and why is he so obsessed with them at…is it 57?

He's going to the wedding of his daughter's friend, without his wife tho she's following, which  is carefully explained, the family dynamics here are swirling and hard to follow, seems to be two or is it three  parallel spheres  of existence: now the past Mid F'….ing West and the loss of dreams by this exceedingly bitter mother (or so I see her, that retirement speech at the university…what on earth is wrong with the woman? She's in a "second rate institution…as are the vast majority of our students, as are we." Page 20).

I can't figure out who the woman blames for being second rate. Herself? Don't think so.  And it seems her son has picked up some of the traits tho I sense he's fighting it, he wants one career, his wife thinks not…

I can't figure out what "The  Cape"  really meant to his parents?

As if happiness were a  place? (page 16) but when they get there out come the  Real Estate Guides, Couldn't Afford it Wouldn't Have it as a Gift.

What do you call this type of approach to life?

I love to read the real estate guides wherever I travel and do some vicarious If I Won the Lottery dreaming, so I was somewhat surprised to see I'm not the only one, but so much BITTERNESS here! So much!

"A house here was part of their long-range, two-part plan to escape the Mid…f…ing West. First they would find real jobs back  East, where they'd locate a suitable apartment to rent. This would allow them to save money for a house on the Cape, where they'd spend summers and holidays and the occasional long weekend, until of course they retired---early if they could swing it---and lived on there full- time, reading and writing op-eds and, who knew. Maybe even trying their hand at a  novel."

So would we say the Cape represented the pathway to a good life?  Dreams fulfilled? But it soon with the Wouldn't Have it as a Gift stuff resolved itself into more bitterness.

So they lived in dreams and bitter reality. That sarcasm she used, at 85 with her son: "You remember books, right? Bound objects? Lots and lots of pages? Print that goes all the way out to the margins?" (page 17)

That triumph she felt when his father didn't even make it to the  Cape the whole time.

The CAPE looms large here, in an eerie parallel maybe of his mother's voice on the phone and his father's semi slient one in the trunk, the CAPE is the third passenger, but why?



Nasty person.  She calls, his father calls from the trunk, what does she think she's doing, why is she doing it?

No I don't see any bright promise here at all. Unless he can rise triumphant. Do we care enough about him so far to hope that? I think so, I do anyway, I hope he can make a mature resolution but he, also, is headed for the "Cape."

 But I can't figure out what I do see, so far, in the first 52 pages, is he running from his parents, desperate to dump dad and get rid of mom's calls? Trying to find the strength?

I hate to say it but in the first 50 pages, to me, the mother is the strongest (albeit the most unpleasant) character so far and she's only on the phone.

And now,  in the last of the first 52 pages we have ...is it a parallel thing going on in the  Great Truro accord?

Like Gum, I need to reread.  I can't figure out what Griffin sees in the Cape, either. Lots to ponder here.


 And also, this little thing keeps creeping in: is it funny, do you think? Or possibly intended as funny?

[jane]

1. What were your first thoughts as you began reading this book?
Is it different in some way from what you might have expected - less sunny, despite the glorious ambiance - more serious?

Sad is how I felt --very sad for this man

2. After reading the first three chapters (52 pages), what is your impression of Griffin, the narrator?
He does acknowledge his "petulance" in the very first paragraph of Chapter One  but seems reluctant to apologize to Joy, his wife.

 

I was mystified by what had happened between Jack and Joy to cause him to leave a day early without her, to sound (p.42) as if they're no longer close/intimate.   It sounded as if something huge had caused a fight.

It's hard to understand how any child could know what intimacy/family love should be with that pair of biological providers who gave him life. I can't think of them as "parents"...the "father" is an inept, womanizing bore and the "mother" is a snob and a bitch and, to my view, they both hugely overrate their own intellectual abilities.

[ginny]

I have to keep thinking of an 85 year old woman. Why, do you think, does she keep  calling him?

[straudetwo]

Well put, Ginny, Thank you.

No wonder Griffin high-tailed it out of the Midwest to put distance between him and his parents!  
An appallingly tactless mother, in my view.  (I've known women like that.  They were always right -or so they thought.)  The philandering father is hardly much better.  How could this pair not have marked their only offspring?  

Griffin charted his own course for LA  and, at least in the beginning, seemed happy with it.  He wanted nothing to do with the "standards" and values his parents so firmly believed in. But how could he not be scarred?  Had the exposure to these values gone deeper than he realized?  He has been suffering from sleeplessness and  worried that he was becoming like his father, who had a difficulty making up his mind.
Why has he carried his father's urn in the trunk of his car for nearly a year ?  There's something macabre about this, I believe, and unfunny.

We are plunged  headlong into the middle of the narrator's crisis and,  before we can speculate on the causes, we are told the history of this small unhappy family.  Surely that's one underlying cause of Griffin's current crisis.  Yet is it possible that Griffin has inherited his mother's selfish trait?

The Cape is probably a character in the story, as you said, Ginny.  A kind of Shangri La, an unattainable peak, an aspiration. To me, the parents' shenanigans are not funny, and I, too, see lots of bitterness and sarcasm.  The story is very different from anything  by Russo I've read before.  This one is more personal and, in fact, has led people to believe it is autobiographical.  Some basic issues are universal, though.

"Marriage and family have changed in the last thirty years", the author confirmed  in a short interview during the first Boston Book Festival in October, "... there's no doubt in my mind.  We're living longer, and we have to nurse our grievances longer..."

We are given an interesting glimpse into the life of script writers who, according to Griffin, are often broke between "crappy" assignments. The language is salty and glib.  The author is fond of  the phrase "a couple of" and, unfortunately,  omits the "of" on several occasions.  It is an all too frequent, lamentable omission against which I campaigned (in vain) in our old Writers Exchange group on SN.

Russo is marvelous with flashbacks and spot-on  :)characterizations. That's why the mother infuriates us so much.  So far, Griffin is a dark figure, not what we'd call simpatico. Joy, the wife, appears almost saintly by comparison and Laura is lovely.

Happiness or the search for it is another thread of the theme, I believe.

[winsummm]

I  read a sample on my kindle and decided that I not only didn't like the writing but also the protagonist. So, I wiped it off and proceeded to others.  I take samples of anything that looks interesting and they are usually at least three chapters long. I'm getting fussier with the freedom to do that.  I'm currently into the darwin conspiracy" which I like very much.

since mid march I have read over sixty books on the kindle and uncounted samples since I delete them after reading them.  Other books are kept at Amazon in my archive forever as well as I know, but maybe not.

claire

[pedln]

Remember the deluge of self-help books that came out in the 60’s and 70’s?  Games People Play?  Seems to be some game playing here  -- and conditions – “I’ll say I’ll go, and if she says I’ll cancel my meeting, (which she won’t) then I won’t go.”  The real estate books – just a game. William and Mary know nothing will come of it.  Mother Mary knows she’s not going to like the next retirement place any more than the one she’s in, but she’ll play that game of “next one, next year, will be better.”

So they lived in dreams and bitter reality.

  You’ve nailed it there, Ginny.  They dream of someday being happy, and the bitter reality is it ain’t gonna happen.

page 17 – “His mother had made him a stationary target, and this was the result.”  Does this mean he’s stuck, he just takes whatever s_ _ _ comes along?

4. Were you amused or appalled reading Griffin's revelations of his parents' professional and personal lives?

Definitely not amused. As Jane has alreay remarked, You feel “very sad for this man.”

[jane]

Well said, Traude, Ginny, and Pedln.

Claire...sorry your reading of the excerpt didn't appeal. It's, for me, the first current / new novel I've truly enjoyed in a long, long time.  It seemed more honest, more appealing, more "real" in its characters than much of what I consider to be highly overdone, very pseudoliterary garbage that's put out as "literature" today.

jane

[straudetwo]

Hello, Claire.  Wonderful to see you!  I thought of you just this morning (telepathy again!)  and am sorry not to have been in touch. There seems hardly time for anything these days; too many things are left undone, especially correspondence.
Sigh.

Kindle must be a great comfort to you; it saves time and is gentler on your eyes. I'm happy for you.
I'm glad you came in to say how you feel about this book.  All responses are welcome and valued.  
Not all books please all readers, that's a given.   This one is rather abstract and Griffin is not an attractive character. But I've embarked on this journey and hope to be able to see it through.  (And I will contact you, as soon as I can.)

Thank you for posting.
Best, T

[straudetwo]

Pedln and Jane,  thank you both for your post.

Pedln, I fully concur with what you said. We should pity Griffin - but not too much.  He does a good job of that himself .
  
Early on it is clear that Griffin is the "authority" in the marriage, and not only linguistically when he objects to Joy's mixed metaphors.  In the last paragraph on p. 4 he declares, firmly,
 " Worse,  Joy preferred to watch movies on DWD rather than in the theater as they were meant to be seen ..."  Says who??? My way or the highway ??

Jane,  it takes courage, I believe, to lay open a marriage so publicly; such honesty is to be admired - especially at an age when appearances matter more than ever.  I have no doubt that some memories are the author's own,  and why not?  Fo example, riding in the car with his parents, hanging over the backseat, trying to catch the gist of their conversation, unbelted. What a lovely detail!

We need to look also at the mother's nickname for her second husband, a philosopher named Bart, as  "Bartleby".  Was she referring to  Bartleby the Scrivener, Melville's veiled complaint that Moby Dick wasn't selling better?
Another small reward?   

What we have here, I believe, is a sober reflection on  an utterly failed marriage (Griffin's parents') and an endangered one = his own.  What we have to discover, jointly with the narrator, when and how the fissure in Griffin's marriage came about.  Especially since all signals were auspicious,  when he relished being emancipated from his parents - and they still hover in the background.  
What we need to know more about is the time Griffin and Joy, and then Laura, spent in LA.  There's no full answer to that in chapters 1-3.

At this point in our story we know
that Laura will be in the wedding of her California friend Kelsey, which will take place on the Cape;  
that Griffin has driven ahead alone, carrying with him the portfolios of his students to grade or correct.  
He stops on the road (and, let me tell you,  some n the Cape do not have shoulders!) to take a call from his mother.
The narrator's account of it is instructive:  we learn that he has shouldered part of the cost of his mother's stay in the facility for the elderly. A good son, in that regard.  Isn't he?
Who could possibly blame him for keeping Joy and Laura away from his overbearing tactless mother?  

And yet we wonder.  We are hearing one side only.

That reminds me. A lifetime ago we had a petty but festering dispute in our all-girls high school (no co-ed then). Our wise Latin professor, a wonderful teacher whom we called affectionately "Meyerle"  (little Meyer)  settled it once and for all with the quote Audiatur et altera pars
= hear also the other part.   A lesson worth learning,  I've never forgotten it.

Thankyou for being here with me.  Our being together here is vital and a wonderful opportunity to exchange views.  I believe that we do not have to LIKE a  book (even though LIKING helps   ) to have a good discussion.  

 

[salan]

I think the Cape symbolizes the "something else", the perfect spot that will bring them the happiness and contentment they seek.  Some people never find  "the perfect spot" because they are sure that someone or some place else will bring them the contentment they seek.  Griffin also seems determined to sabotage his own happiness.  Why?  Does he feel he doesn't deserve to be happy?  Why did he go to the Cape without Joy, even tho he really wanted to be travelling with her?

It is obvious from the beginning that his family was really disfunctional.  Why did G feel more resentment for Joy's parents (Harve & Jill) than he did for his own?  Was it because it forced him to realize how self-centered and disinterested (in him) his parents really were?

Griffin hasn't found the "perfect" spot to bury his father's ashes.  He subconsciously is not ready to release his father and won't be until he comes to some resolution about his feelings.

This book is not as light as I thought it was going to be; and I do not find it humorous--just slightly sad.  I have never been a fan of dark comedy.  Is that what this book is?   Wow!  Russo is great at creating characters that you really get to know in a few short pages, isn't he?

Griffin is reliable as a narrator because this is his story as he sees it "warts and all".

Straude, how long do we stay on the first 53 pages?  Just wondering.

Sally

[straudetwo]

Sally, many thanks for your post and the good questions.

While we do have a well-proven pattern, or format, for these monthly discussions - because guidelines are necessary in every endeavor - there has to be room for an exception for a different kind of book.
That is what we have here : the evolving story of a family; in-laws;  crises (yes, plural); the elusive search for happiness; unearned enittlement;  and, yes again, hope.  This is one coherent narrative and desrves to be discussed as such - as a whole.  No division could do the job, in my humble opinion

By all means,   let's go on to Chapter 4, if participants are willing,  because it is important:   it was the spark for this book.

[jane]

Sally....your first paragraph in your post says exactly what I thought also.  I think you're  reading my mind!   

This is what I'd written in my response to questions 3 & 4:

3. Do you think the appearance of Griffin's mother in the first chapter, "A Finer Place", is essential  by way  of an explanation (if one were neded)  for Griffin's behavior?

Yes, yes, yes.  He's had no attention, love, caring, nurturing from this woman who gave birth to him.

4. Were you amused or appalled reading Griffin's revelations of his parents' professional and personal lives?

Appalled and sad that two people could both find endless excuses for their own problems. It's always "the place," "the lack of money,"or "the current lover"  summed up on p. 16 where she apparently believed that "happiness was a place."  I've known people who were always sure if they just took another job somewhere else, their problems would be fixed. They never were, of course, any more than they were for this miserable couple...since the "problems" moved right with them since their behaviors/personality/character WERE the problems.

jane

[bellamarie]

Hmmm...I have to say these first three chapters are a bit boring and borish.  Griffin has no substance just like his parents, wife and daughter.  These type of people I tend to avoid, because while they think they are above the rest, and name drop their ivy league education, vacation spots etc. they are empty in life.  In these chapters I find NO true emotions or connections.  Joy's family is descriibed as a happy normal middle American family, yet why do I get the impression she is not?  Griffin seems to have married a woman much like his mother, and he has become his dreaded fear his father.  Gee if I had to describe this book so far I would have to say its....Much ado about nothin.

I truly am trying to give it a fair chance to intrigue me, interest me, entertain me, or even excite me, but I must say it has not started off to do anything but bore me.  I actually found myself dosing off to sleep many times while reading these pages and then rereading what I forgot because I was not the least bit interested to learn much more about these characters.  I am a very happy, positive person and although I had a childhood that would make Griffin's seem like Christmas morning, I can honestly say I made the decision to not follow the pattern I was raised in.

If the Cape is indeed much like Griffin describes it as, I have been completely disappointed in wanting to go visit it.  So far black it is....I'm not so sure I see any magic at all.  Sorry everyone I don't mean to be a downer or a party pooper, but this is a depressing book and I have a feeling it may not get much better with a divorce and death lurking.  EEEKKK  how much can we go through to get to a possible happy ending.  And if there is a happy ending how believeable will it be?  Not that every story needs or must have a happy ending but I would hope something is worth looking forward to in this book.

[winsummm]

the perfect spot is inside and as a surviver of a failed marriage I don't want to experience those feelings and attitudes again.  the sample gave me a dose of that and it was more than enough.

[Gumtree]

My goodness - so many great posts already. This book has definitely stirred up plenty of reactions.

In the early stages I had moments of recognition simply because for a start my real name is Joy - and then, like our character Joy, I come from a large family - lots of siblings, inlaws, aunts, uncles, cousins... whereas my DH is not only an only child but has few cousins who lived at a distance. So, especially in the early years of our marriage he had no understanding of the relaxed family atmosphere and banter apparent during family-get-togethers - the 'in' jokes, family stories etc.
Oddly enough, DH would always tune in to his favourite music on the drive home while I was often silent as we readjusted to 'our life' where we were both happy to be. It took DH quite a while to adjust to my family get togethers but he managed fine and soon began to give and take in a like manner. He shows no visible scars.

As Ginny suggests, I think the book was meant to be funny but there is a serious and possibly tragic undertone which overshadows any humour that may be there - dark though it may be.

 I find Jack to be rather bitter and resentful of Joy's family and their hold over her. He seems also resentful of his LA friend and partner who is still writing those screenplays. He is angry with his own parents - well, who wouldn't be! The sarcasm, snobbishness and  sheer bitchiness evident in the mother is almost unbelievable. Above ll Jack is angry with himself for reasons that are not clear yet.

Cape Cod is a Shangrila.

[ginny]

Sometimes you have to entertain negative thoughts about a book and/ or read a book which s not all sunshine and flowers, sort of soldier thru, to find out what the author is saying, what point he's making here, and then to decide if it's worth it and he achieved it. I do think this IS done for a purpose, but so far I can't figure out what?

I don't know what, or who, at this point, it's about, and so I don't know where to focus my allegiances, and that's a strange feeling. Somewhat like being in a car, burdened by the need to do something with the baggage we all have,  driving to a destination but uncertain when i get there what I'll do.

If you back off from it a bit and look at it carefully it's ludicrous. The plot is ludicrous.  Traude mentioned that he's paying for his mother's care, the good son? He must be trying to be a good son, taking those abusive calls, trying to find (and not succeeding, even with dead ashes) closure.  What's going on with him and his father's ashes? Why can't he  be straight with her?

Pedln mentions conditions, IF you do this THEN I'll do that, and game playing. I truly think  Russo is trying to do something bold here, I don't think this is a sloppy causal book. Is it autobiographical?  Is Griffin Every Man in middle age?

Gum mentions "he sarcasm, snobbishness and  sheer bitchiness evident in the mother is almost unbelievable." Yes, almost an over the top characterization  and so is the ashes in the trunk, that's what makes me think this is intended as good humored if not funny (think of it as a movie,  kind of a Little Miss Sunshine or perhaps Chevy Chase in Vacation), beaten down but well meaning son, a symbol for all middle aged sons,   has not only the  carping mother on the phone he's got the father in the trunk).....is this a grown up Portnoy, tryiing to finally...finally....what? WHAT? That's the issue with me, and Sally caught something I missed:   hit it on the head.

Sally!! Good heavens, yes, nearly jumped out of my chair: Why did G feel more resentment for Joy's parents (Harve & Jill) than he did for his own?  Was it because it forced him to realize how self-centered and disinterested (in him) his parents really were?

Or could it be something else? That's fabulous, Sally, I missed it entirely, I think I got swept up in his passive aggressive (or do we think that's what it is?) reaction to everything?

Man with a Load of  Sorrows, literally. Are we supposd to like him? Identify with him? He's not an ax murderer after all.

Gum mentions  the return after a big family gathering, to their regular life. There's a normal life,  and then there's the one in the car with mom harping on the phone, demanding a visit (ostensibly to take her library books).

Am I the only one who sees her as wanting attention, respect, AND love?

Griffin has  his father's ashes in the car and his mother haunting him on the phone, and he keeps enduring. I cannot figure out what the mother is after: attention? Love? That criticism she does  makes me think, perversely, that perhaps she wants to finally be appreciated, by somebody. For her....ah.....high aspirations and education? For what? She wants to finally succeed, I think. They all do.

Traude says she thinks the quest for happiness is a theme, I hope I've paraphrased that correctly. Quest, they're all on a quest, but what for, that's the issue, do they even know? Could this be one of those books where it's evident to the reader but not the players what's going on?

I hope not because I can't figure out for myself, what IS going on.

I think Griffin wants his father to succeed, too. He wants to make it all right, why them first instead of himself?

She still has privileges, you know, in the library, she's writing a book.

As Jane said, they take their own misery with them, Griffin takes his in phone calls and the car trunk. But he could shuck that off.

I can't get a handle on any of them, yet, so I don't know who to focus on, like Gum's family reunion (I'm an only child, so is  Griffin, big families are incomprehensible to me).  Is it because they're not well written, they are not fully fleshed out or realized,  or is it because it's early days yet, or could it be that there's another reason? If so he's a heck of a writer.

 I also found my attention wandering when reading, I'm not sure why, it's an easy quick read. Maybe he is pushing some buttons and I have to go off and deal with my own issues  first?

I think this is an ambitious book, I hope to find out from your own thoughts, for myself, as a reader, if he achieved that ambition  or if, like what appears to be the majority of his characters so far, he does not.

[salan]

Straude-What pages comprise chapter 4?  When I read this book last month I wrote page numbers beside my notes, but not chapter numbers.
I can see where this book would be hard to divide into a format.  It really lends itself to reading and discussing it as a whole, doesn't it?
Ginny-I think the fact that Griffin is travelling with his father's ashes, his mother on the cell phone and his thoughts is symbolic of all the "baggage" he has been carrying around from some time.  Some people just can't get beyond their past.  I think Griffin's mother is totally self-absorbed and that she is determined to be the center of attention.  She is a strong character that demands your attention. 
These first few chapters set the tone of the book.  I don't know if Russo meant it to be funny, but if so, then Russo must have a warped sense of humor.
Bella, I agree that this book is depressing.  I didn't find it boring--just borish.  For my pleasure reading (which is most of what I read), I prefer reading about people I can identify with.  However, I do push myself to read some books that are not in my "comfort" range.  This is one of those books.  Some of the best discussions in my reading group have come from books that I did not particularly enjoy reading.  So far, this looks good!
Sally

[Babi]

Okay, the Griffins are egoistic snobs,  terrible parents, and thoroughly
unpleasant people. GINNY was asking what the Cape meant to them. I get the impression that it serves the purpose of a possibility for a happier future, which they really don't want to put to the test. So they keep hunting...and rejecting.
  Appalled is my choice, TRAUDE. Even if the author was trying for humor, there is simply too much bitterness for the Griffins to be funny.

 Joy's family is more normal, certainly a loving family, and their quirks more humorous. I confess to a wince at the 'Jane,June,Joy' name game. )  Okay,, they are a happy family, they enjoy one another’s company.  I’d enjoy their company, too. But I definitely cringe at "Jilly-billy'!
  Griffin is partially rejecting his parents and their values by keeping them
separated from Joy and Laura.  He can't wholly escape them himself;
that would make him a bad son.  I think he resents Joy's family partly because they are so much nicer than his own, partly because of the
snobbishness his parents implanted in him, and partly because Joy won't
cut them off the way he has done his parents.  Unreasonable, as he
recognizes himself, but that doesn't change his feelings.

[jane]

I may  be alone here, but I find Joy's family very "normal"...yep, even the kids names all beginning with the same letter. I've seen that happen a lot here in the midwest...even in families with 7 kids or so. [From my point of view, it's better than some of the names I see people hanging on their offspring these days   ]  I think Jack is uncomfortable with them because they are the antithesis of what his own "three-some grouping"...I can't call the Griffins a "family" because that word entails love, nurturing and caring and there was none of that amongst the three of them that I can see at this point."  I don't mind the Jilly-billy...I think it was an affectionate nickname that perhaps came from a childhood nickname.  

I also don't see that this is intended to be funny...it's not a Chevy Chase thing to me...it's a sad commentary on a man at midlife who was raised with no love, support, bonding, encouragement, praise from those who should have given it.  I wonder what sorts of families those two came from?  I don't recall reading anything and see nothing in my notes.  Jack, I think, is looking for a place to put the ashes that's comfortable...and for his "father" there was never such a place. How is Jack supposed to find it for him now?

I suspect they thought Cape Cod was 'Eden'/Shagra-La because it's all they knew. They were "EASTERNERS"  from  Cornell and Yale...and I wonder if they fit the stereotype of Easterners who think the world ends at the Hudson River...and everything beyond it is a black hole. [as in the MidF....West]. They would have come to know at Cornell and Yale that the rich and elite go to CC...and so that must be where happiness is.  In reality, of course, neither has a clue what "happiness" is, apparently.  

I wonder what they spent their $$ on?  They never had enough, never saved a dime, apparently,  and yet both were professors.

jane

[straudetwo]

Sally, just a brief answer to your question  ...  cleaning in progress here.

Chapter  4 covers pages 53-67, "The Summer of the Brownings." . The time when Griffin made friends with Peter and Peter's family one summer.  The sadness there is inescapable.

Will get back to your wonderful posts as soon as I can.

[pedln]

I also found my attention wandering when reading, I'm not sure why, it's an easy quick read. Maybe he is pushing some buttons and I have to go off and deal with my own issues  first?

  Ginny

This pretty well holds my attention, but now that I’m about half-way through the book I find I have to back off, go somewhere else – maybe to Iceland – for a while. Perhaps it because there is so much depression and negatavism.

Interesting points being made here about families, Gum’s especially, about trying or not trying to understand them.  In mine there was only my  brother and me, but a raft of aunts, uncles, cousins, and nothing was more fun than a family reunion – I still remember the pillowcase I made and everyone, even the uncles had to embroider on it.  What would Jack have thought about that?  Worse than board games?  I was shocked when first engaged, to find that in my fiancee’s family there were aunts and uncles who did not get along, did not speak to one another.  Perhaps I was unduly sheltered, but I had never heard of discord among my relatives.

I wonder what they spent their $$ on?  They never had enough, never saved a dime, apparently,  and yet both were professors.

Good question, Jane.  I’ve been wondering how Jack paid for college, film school.  Don’t tell me his parents had set up a savings account just for him!

[Gumtree]

I agree with Jane that siblings  names beginning with the same letter are not unusual in the least. Twins very often bear very similar names - June & Judith - or James and John  - the J is very catching isn't it. An uncle of mine named his four sons with the initials J.E which were also his own. He was a good businessman and I discovered that he did it to vex the Taxation Dept.  What taxman could unravel which document related to which J.E.  Needless to say, that uncle was not a blood relation 

Was  Mother's (I can't think of her as Mary) retirement speech [page 20] perhaps the moment when she finally faced and actually admitted the truth of her academic career not being what she and her husband had dreamed it ( and his too), might have been. After all they were bright enough - both scholarship winners.

I wish I could think of something nice to say about you people and this university, I really do. But the truth we dare not utter is that ours is a distinctly second-rate institution, as are the vast majority of our students, as are we

Her words appear to be an indictment of the state of university education in The F.... Midwest. I'm left wondering whether it is a fair assessment and whether Russo was making a serious point about mediocrity. Are the vast majority of students and their professors second rate?

The contempt in which Mother holds you people -her colleagues - students and more importantly, herself,  is palpable. She is a disillusioned, disappointed and perhaps despairing woman.

[countrymm]

I'm enjoying the book.  I'm 65 and grew up in Massachusetts so I can relate to the Griffin family striving to get into the best schools, teach at the best colleges and retire to a beautiful place on Cape Cod.....accomplishments that perhaps validate that you tried hard and made the most of your abilities.  It may seem shallow to many readers, but those were the goals inculcated in us at the time.  I can remember longing for college acceptance, a fine first job, and a future of accomplishment.  Does this help anyone out there?

[ginny]

countryemm, welcome! So glad to see you again.

Yes, that's the way it was in old New Jersey too, and Pennsylvania. You aimed high. You in fact where going to be the next ambassador and make a difference.

So...are we saying that nobody in MA ever  grew beyond that? IS there in fact life beyond that?

Have you ever known anybody as bitter as the mother here for less reason?

Such good points here, such good points you're all making.

[bellamarie]

Oh dear I am laughing out loud at these posts.  First off, I am one of those mothers who name their children with all the same letter, Julie, Joseph and Jeremy to go with my husband's first initial being J for Joe.  We are a very close knit family with five grand children among the two sons and we celebrate with extended family for days on end.  I am wore out just from a week of celebrating Halloween.  I come from a very large Italian family with my grandmother having thirteen children, and then they all had children and there are six girls and one boy in my immediate family. When all of our husbands experienced our family get togethers they learned to go sit in the living room and watch sports while we all sat in the kitchen drinking coffee and cackling like a hen farm.  My brother in law who was not at all close to his mother and father or two brothers always cracked jokes about us.  He said we all talk at the same time and some how manage to hear everything everyone is saying and comment to everything said.  lolol  He said we were the typical Italian family with hands a flying and mouths that never quit.

My husband comes from a family of four girls and two boys, and his mother and father were not the loving, talkative type and so when we drove home from my families get togethers he and I talked the whole way home about everything from who cheated at cards to who ate the last piece of cake.  lol  When we drove home from his family gatherings which were few and far between, it was silent.  We felt like there was nothing exciting to share.  They were snobbish and condescending and his mother had a way of making him feel like he did not achieve enough in life, because he did not become a priest or an accountant, her dreams.  So we made our family today all about fun and joy.  The Brownings in chapter four is our family!

I had a friend who had a  husband that was an only son and his mother was identical to Griffin's mother.  It was revealed later his mother was inappropriate with him and he in turned repeated the behavior.  My friend was devastated when she learned this too late.  Griffin reminds me so much of my friend's husband who I cut out of my life many years ago.  I still have contact with my friend since she divorced him.

I am not finding any humor weaved into this story whatsoever, not even sick humor.  Nothing is funny about the way this family lived.  The Cape for this family was to fulfill their societal hunger each year.  It's like listening to Regis and Kelly talk about going to the Hampton's.  All about feeling like they have achieved the status quo of what they feel to be important.  For me its just plain old snobbishness and I don't care for these type of people at all.

Ginny..." Sometimes you have to entertain negative thoughts about a book and/ or read a book which s not all sunshine and flowers, sort of soldier thru, to find out what the author is saying, what point he's making here, and then to decide if it's worth it and he achieved it. "

I just don't care to muddle through the sadness, snobbery, depressing, and negativity to see if this author achieved what point he is making.  I don't see Griffin as a typical middle age male.  My husband is 60 yrs old and he loves life, wakes up every day and hugs and kisses me and says Good morning.  Does he have bad days, sure but does he carry around a laden cross to the tune of whoa is me, no.  If it weren't for the Browning family I would have given up on this book.  I don't waste too much time with these type of books.  I don't need sunshine and flowers to read, but I don't choose to take what precious little time I have in a day for the enjoyment of reading to set the book down and feel incredibly sad.  So, in saying that, I will see if it gets any better.  But like I mentioned with a death and divorce still to come.....it ain't looking good.  Pardon my grammar.

[bellamarie]

countrymm......With all due respect ....I think in most places throughout the country and world the same values you speak of are instilled in families, and many have achieved these goals in spite of living outside of the eastern snobbery that is taking place in this book.  The people in the East do not have a monopoly on fine schools, vacation spots etc.  Here in midwestern F--ing Ohio we aspire to the same hard work, best schools and success in life.  Eliticism is everywhere, and its a group of people in society who for some reason feel they are entitled more so than others.  The Griffins in my mind, have not achieved the successes in life that really matters, and that is why they are so miserable.

[serenesheila]

Interesting posts.  I am an only child.  With two emotionally unavailable parents.  I identify with Jack Griffin.  I spent my childhood, alone and ignored.  So, large families are an unknown quantity.  I had four children myself.  As I had always wanted to be part of a large family.  My first husband had three siblings, but wanted no contact with them.  That was a disappointment for me.

I am finding the book negative and depressing.  But, I am hoping for inprovment in following chapters.  I am also wondering what attracted Joy to Jack?  I also wonder how he paid for college?  Joy seems more normal, to me.  I do not understand why Laura has always so feared that her parents would divorce.  Lots of questions, and so far, not so many answers.

On to Chapter 4.
Sheila

[straudetwo]

We've had some eloquent reactions,  and I hasten to respond.
All posts are welcome and will be acknowledged.
As I've said before,  it would be unreasonable to expect everyone to like each and every book that is chosen here.

Nor should we feel compelled to participate if something makes us uncomfortable. As Jane has said, there's nothing wrong with laying a book aside, never to be looked at again.  We have a perfect right to do so because life is short.  If we find nothing palatable in a book, we might as well put it away.

We might have to make our peace with the fact that not every book entertains, or is designed to entertain. Not every book "grabs" us.  There is no discernible plot in That Old Cape Magic. As I see it this is a (perhaps desperate) attempt by the narrator to find a way out of a crisis which may possibly be of his own making - or else inevitable because of his genetic makeup.  These are the musings of an introvert and the echo of painful memories.  Our approach may of necessity be one of analysis, rather than criticism.

When reading a book it has never occurred to me to take the characters or their actions and compare them to my own life.  Why get all worked up, especially if there are significant dissimilarities?
And why, Bellamarie, would one refuse to visit the site described in a book, simply because a couple of characters (notably Griffin's parents) acts reprehensibly?  Also, what is a man of substance, and why is Griffin not one?

Life was never a rose garden. More often than not it is predetermined by where and to whom we are born, where we are raised and educated. That also determines from what camp or profession we choose our friends.   In this country we are proud of our  egalitarian classless society,   but is it?  In England and continental Europe class is, and always has been, a distinct line of demarcation.

Gumtree, Russo himself has been a screen writer and a teacher. It is certainly possible that in this book he is trying to address our system of public versus private education.  He also compares the life of a teacher with that of a screen writer.  Sid and Tommy have some interesting things to say when he goes back East. Griffin maintains contact through the decades.

I agree with what has been said about families and how children influence the dynamics. It is obvious that Griffin, deprived of a loving home and caring parents, craved attention so much that he begrudged Joy the family visits.   Was it jealousy?  Just like his mother's,  who kept tabs on the father long after they were divorced,  continuing  a virtual embrace that suffocated them both? !

I already said  that I do not like and have never appreciated the use of four letter words in conversation  It was simply not done.   Yet there are untold numbers of people who do so every day with impunity, a former president among them.  Years ago I asked Mal Freeman, then head of the online Writers Exchange Program,
 "Do people really talk like this in their homes?"
"Yes, they do," she answered.  

The banter between Griffin an Tommy strikes me as sophomoric and crude. The liberal sprinkling of the f-word in the text is annoying. Lastly,  I'm not sure I subscribe to the wholesale condemnation of "Snobs in the East".
 
Re The Truro Accord  
They wed in Truro on the Cape although Joy would have much preferred  to get married at her family's vacation home in Maine.   Griffin had prevailed.  
Now, as Laura mentioned Truro on the phone he couldn't remember the recent connection. Then he recalled that Joy made the suggestion of taking a trip to Truro after the wedding to see the inn where they had honeymooned, if it was still there. They could spend a day or two, she'd said,  it'd be romantic ...  
Would they?

Is it too late?
Is the bond too frayed to be mended?

Almost forgot : Thank you, Countrymm, for your post.  I know exactly what you mean. Good to see you.

[PatH]

So far, I'm finding the book pretty funny as well as serious.  It's full of little digs like "...once you'd packed a bag in front of a woman there was no possibility of unpacking, or of not going and taking the damn bag with you."

Griffin's mother's telephone demands are so awful they're amusing too.  And her retirement speech, although pathetic and rude, is funny too.

What an awful family, though.  It's a wonder Griffin managed to have any sort of normal marriage at all (though it seems to be rocky now) with the model he had before him.  How could he know anything about loving relationships?

[pedln]

With all due respect ....I think in most places throughout the country and world the same values you speak of are instilled in families, and many have achieved these goals in spite of living outside of the eastern snobbery that is taking place in this book.  The people in the East do not have a monopoly on fine schools, vacation spots etc.  Here in midwestern F--ing Ohio we aspire to the same hard work, best schools and success in life.  Eliticism is everywhere, and its a group of people in society who for some reason feel they are entitled more so than others.  The Griffins in my mind, have not achieved the successes in life that really matters, and that is why they are so miserable.

Well said, Bellamarie.  I know, this is fiction and these are obnoxious characters, but if you've ever been on the other end of that snobbery, the fiction still rankles a bit.  Someone once suggested to me that it would be more proper for me to say "awnt" instead of "ant."  I told him to go park his car.    

Her words appear to be an indictment of the state of university education in The F.... Midwest. I'm left wondering whether it is a fair assessment and whether Russo was making a serious point about mediocrity. Are the vast majority of students and their professors second rate?

Gumtree

Hopefully not, Gum. Is he in a position to make judgement on 70 to 80% of academia?  I think his point is more about the attutudes of people/professors who are unhappy in their work, in life.

When reading a book it has never occurred to me to take the characters or their actions and compare them to my own life.  Why get all worked up, especially if there are significant dissimilarities?

Traude

REally, Traude?  Do you compare them to other peoples lives?  To characters in other books?  Thinking back to high school literature courses we were taught to look for universal truths.  I would find it impossible not to compare fictional characters in one book to those in another or to people I know or to things in my own life.  Years ago, going through a time of upheavel, friends were recommending this self-help book and that self-help, but I agreed more with the one who said, just read a good novel.

[PatH]

I seldom see more than tiny bits of myself or my own family in books like this one, and that's the case here too, but Russo is doing a very good job of making me see these people.  I've got more to say, but I'm getting sleepy, so I think I'll go read chapter 4 in bed.

[straudetwo]

Sheila, 
Thank you for posting. 
This is not a happy book.  But it is, I believe, a faithful presentation of what can happen in life. There always is cause and effect,  consequences of actions, culpability assigned or denied. Rarely are we given second chances. And even if we are so lucky, how many last?  Why then aren't we more caring longer into  a marriage?

Interestingly enough, at the reading in Sandwich on August 15 the author read only from Part I.  Only when I began reading the book did I discover the sadness.   
Is this perhaps a cautionary tale, I wonder ?

The author was asked during the interview in Boston in October whether the book is autobiographical. He answered  (merely) that he is an only child; his wife has siblings.
She was with him in Sandwich  on August 15 at the supper al fresco in back of the book store that arranged for their visit, and later at the reading to a much larger audience.  He lives in Maine, he told us.

His Bridge of Sighs is set partly in Venice and  it would have been interesting to know about Russo's own heritage.  He did not bring it up, and it would have been too personal a question to ask.

In onne of the flashbacks we read that everybody was in love with Joy who was "beautiful and genuine, something rare in LA,  and she had chosen him".  We know Griffin had at least one summer job when he as in HS. That's where he learned about "half plumb".  He may have had other jobs and saved  the wages.   Perhaps he worked while he attended film school.  And Joy had a job.

[salan]

Oh my, oh my--such interesting comments from all of you!  I am filled with "manic loquaciousness" (a phrase I borrowed from a book I recently read).  My mind is swirling with thoughts and responses to all of your observations.

1.  Straude, I think we given 2nd chances all the time.  We simply don't see them or chose not to take them.  We are not given a complete "do-over", but we are given a chance to respond differently.
2.  Many colleges give special scholarships to children of professors.  Maybe that is how Griffin attended. 
3.   Snobishness is not regional.  I grew up in a small town in Texas.  There was definitely a right and wrong side of the tracks (literally, since a train ran through our town) and figuratively.  People on the "wrong" side were looked down on and expected to behave badly frequently bringing about a self fulfilling prophecy.  There were those, however, who brought themselves out of it in spite of the circumstances.  Which brings me to the next thought.
4.  I think a man of substance is one who can rise above his circumstances and quit blaming someone else for his problems.
5.  After reading this book, I thought back to other books Russo has written.  They all feature disfunctional families-which makes me think that his writings may be somewhat autobiographical.  I read somewhere that a good writer writes about what he knows.

After reading this book, I am going to take a long break from Russo.  Too, depressing and tiring!

Sally