Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society - by Shaffer & Barrows

[FlaJean]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

The year is 1946.  Juliet Aston, a writer looking for her next book subject, finds herself "gloomier than she ever was during the war."  Quite out of the blue she finds her subject, one  that will change her life, with the arrival of a letter from a member of a book club in Guernsey, a British Channel island occupied by the Nazis during the war.

Discussion Schedule: Feb. 1-7   *Letters -- January 8, 1946 - March 1, 1946 Feb. 8-14    *Letters -- March 2, 1946 - May 13, 1946 Feb. 15-21   *Letters -- May 14, 1946 - July 15, 1946 Feb. 22-28     *Letters -- July 17, 1946 - Sept. 17, 1946

Feb. 22-28    Letters -- July 17, 1946 - Sept. 17, 1946

 
1. What did you think of this novel made up entirely of letters as a means of telling a story? Did it work for you?  Did the characters come alive through this means of expression?
 
2.  What historical facts concerning World War II  did you discover?  Can fiction sometimes make historic events more understandable or does it distort the facts?

3. Do you  believe that books have the power to lift people out of the most trying circumstances?

4.  Juliet sees Dawsey Adams as Charles Lamb.  Did she ever see him as Jane Austen's Mr. Rochester or Mr.Darcy? Are these men at all alike? How was Dawsey different from  other men Juliet had known?

5. What effect did Remy Girard's arrival  on the scene after the war have on the members of the literary society?  What was Juliet's reaction to her coming?  Why did Remy decide to leave?

6. Why do you think Isola's grandmother's letters from Oscar Wilde about cats were included in this story?

7. When did you first suspect that  Juliet and Dawsey might become romantically involved?  What part did Isola play in making the match?
 
8. Why do you think the authors decided to end the book with Isola's "Detection Notes"?  Did they add an element to the story that could not have been achieved in letters?

9.  What does a reader’s taste in books say about his or her personality?
Which characters'  literary opinions are most like your own? Did you have a favorite?

10. Do you agree with Isola that “reading good books ruins you for enjoying bad one"?
Are there some "good books"  you intend to read as a result of this book discussion?

Related Links: Author's Biography; Visit Guernsey ;   A history of Guernsey during the German Occupation 1940 - 1941 ; Charles Lamb - Selected Essays ; the letters of Seneca; Annie Barrows Responds to Readers

Discussion Leaders:  JoanP and Pedln

Good morning, FlaJean - I'm curious to hear your husband's response to the book?  Did he have the emotional moments that you did

Yes, but no tears.

[mabel1015j]

I'm sorry that i wrote Dorsey instead of D'Arcy - fibro fog had sat in, but i guess the accent i tho't about was sort of Irish/Scottish Dawsey - Darcy - leaving out the strong "r" sound, thinking of the New England accent here in the states,  and i was pronouncing "sey" as "see," as "c". Interesting to hear from Annie about the J.A. connection.

I don't have my book any more, so it's hard for me to go back and remember my tho'ts as i was reading, but i'm still enjoying your comments.

Barbara - nice memories of the SN journey. Even for us who have come to SN/SL/SF later it is nice to hear.   .............jean

[PatH]

Was it PatH, who was going to supply us with some answers she was posing to Annie, and was waiting til the end so as not to spoil anything? 

No, it wasn't me.  I don't have the courage to write authors.

[JudeS]

Re Oscar Wilde..  He wrote two books of fairy tales "A House of Pomegranates" and "The Happy prince and Other T ales."
Anyone who wishes to enter his magical world has only to enter his name plus the words fairy tales and then press on one of the titles to read  it (in an artistic script  no less).

In another web article ,"Oscar Wilde's Fairy Tales " by Prof. Clifton Snider he says that "Wildes Fairy Tales "signalled the advent of his greatest creative period".

In GLPPPS I loved the scene with the little girl crying and Wilde's caring response.

Fairy Tales are a non-rational approach to human life. So Isola's  quirky responses in the end save the day as in the moment she catches Billie Bee because  "her Duplicitous Bump was as big as a goose egg".

Isola also sees herself as Miss Marple (she of Agatha Christie Fame). Another one of my favorite literary characters.

This book has been a memory evoking orgy for me.
 Thanks to all who suggested it and voted for it.

Jude

[bellamarie]

Oh sorry PatH, I did find the post I was looking for.

Laura,  #249 on: February 14, 2009, 06:35:55 AM
I have been lurking, waiting to jump in with Annie’s comments.  Most of them are pertinent to the whole book, so you will have to wait a bit longer on most of them.

Maybe Laura, will return with the comments from Annie, she was waiting to share with us.

[lucky]

There are two ways of looking at the inclusion of Isola's grandmother's letters from Oscar Wilde.  Perhaps the author wanted to include Wilde because of her fondness for his writings.  The authors have included a number of writers so why not Oscar Wilde?  But I see it in another light.  The thought has occurred to me that there is  symbolism at work here.  I think the cruel destruction of the cat represents the German's attempt to destroy the British people and drive  them into the sea.  The Battle of Britain was particularly vicious but  English military superiority won out.  The man in the coach to me represents Churchill who saved Britain.  Solange, nee Muffin, represents the Free French, England's only ally at the time, until the Fall of France. 

[pedln]

The thought has occurred to me that there is  symbolism at work here.  I think the cruel destruction of the cat represents the German's attempt to destroy the British people and drive  them into the sea.

  from  lucky

Wow, Lucky, you may well be right.  None of us really know the authors’ intent about that, but it certainly could be, and that’s a very astute observation.  Good for you.

Jude, thank you for all the glimpses of Oscar Wilde.  I am following your advice and have found fairy tales to click on – availabe to read online.  This site below lists several that are available online.  I think I'll try The Selfish Giant.  I've heard the name, but that's about all.

Fairy Tales by OFOFWW


Jean, don’t worry about  Dorsey/D’Arcy.   Anyone who made the connection did well.

I think we’re all probably in agreement that Isola is a wonderful quirky fascinating character, and may even be the one the authors liked best.  And we’ve called her many different names – court jester, odd man out, good friend, and so forth.  Does anyone see her as child-like?  I don’t mean anything childish or derogatory, more like having qualities of children – she’s full of wonder at the things around her,  she’s enthusiastic, she’s not afraid to try new things, nor does she shy away from things she doesn’t understand. And she’s outspoken in her likes and dislikes.  Now I've got todo some rereading -- why does Jude -- or was it Gum -- say that Sidney is the only one who appreciates her.

[Babi]

PEDLN, thanks for the OFOFWW link. It looks lovely. I've marked it so I can go back and explore it at my leisure.  And I like your view of Isola as retaining her childlike interest in the world.
 Of her "Observations",  I especially enjoyed Juliet's remarkable cure for hiccups. You don’t just drink a glass of water, you have it poured down your throat. “You stomp your foot when you are close to drowning, and your friend takes the glass away. It works every time -a miracle-no more hiccups.”    I wonder if anyone ever drowned from that cure? 

At last, Juliet ‘seizes the day’. ‘Goaded by a piece of rock’, as Isola puts it.  Remember how that paperweight was one of the few items saved from the burning of her apartment in London? How precious that one remaining memento must have been, the crystal paperweight with Carpe Diem carved on it, that had belonged to her Father.  How appropriate an inscription the author chose here….’Seize the day’.  One simply never knows what tomorrow will bring.

[bellamarie]

I received a response from Annie Barrows, and would like to share it.  I am happy she was able to shed light on our questions, regarding the ending.  Most of our book discussions, have never had the pleasure of the author's own thoughts and words written directly to us, to help us with the insights into their writing.  I am thrilled, Annie took the time to answer all our questions, and share her essay with us.  I am so grateful, and will cherish her emails.  Hopefully, Laura or Joan will have more to share.
 
Dear Marie--
 
You were right. Isola's Detection Notes exist because the information about the culmination of the Juliet Dawsey plot couldn't be conveyed in any other way, unless Juliet wrote a giant letter after the fact, which would be (a) unlikely and (b) a lot less fun.
 
The Oscar Wilde episode is mostly there because Mary Ann adored Oscar Wilde.
 
I don't think that the focus did shift from Juliet to Isola. Isola becomes the narrator for a while, but only in order to relate what happens to Juliet. Nothing actually happens to Isola after the Oscar Wilde episode.
 
The ending may have a similarity to Lady Susan. I don't know because I've never read Lady Susan. Jane Austen if, of course, an inspiration throughout.
 
I think it's always fun to look for symbols and strands of meaning in books--it makes the experience of reading richer--but I assure you, our intention was to create an enjoyable book about a little-known episode of WWII that also served the function of touting some of our favorite books. Wherever you find your pleasure, we're all for it.
 
Best,
Annie____________________________
 
For me, Annie has provided the last pieces of the puzzle, I personally felt I needed to close out this book. Actually, I think I found the pieces, and she confirmed they fit. I had a wonderful time discussing this book with all of you.  I am delighted to have had, the opportunity to learn about all the classical writers and their works, Mary Ann shared with us, in this wonderful book, and those everyone else provided. This book introduced to me, and gave me the desire to read Austen, Lamb, Morley, the Bronte's sisters, Seneca,  Elizabeth van Amin, Oscar Wilde, etc. etc.  It has opened up my literary awareness, beyond boundaries, I could ever imagine.  It made me laugh out loud, it made me cry, it made me angry, it frustrated me, it made me sad, and it made me more sensitive to the, sufferings and strength of the people of the Channel Islands during the German Occupation.  I nearly failed History class in High school because dates, times, places and events seemed so boring to me. If only, history could be taught, as Mary Ann presented it in Guernsey. I loved the characters, and even though, I may never travel to Guernsey Island, I feel a part of Guernsey, will exist in me forever.  I think Mary Ann has spoiled me, and I fear I may never be able to sit and read a mundane book ever again.  I feel I found a friend in the co-author, Annie Barrows, and will look forward to her adult novel.  In the meantime, I am ordering Jane Austen's collection for myself and Annie Barrows, Ivy & Bean, children's books to share with my three  adorable little grand daughters. I will giggle when each of them ask me questions, that show they are allowing their minds to think beyond the words on the pages, but, there will be a point where I will say, "okay, now let's get back to the story so we can enjoy this wonderful book."  As Annie stated, " Wherever you find your pleasure, we're all for it."

I would like to thank the moderators, I think they had some interesting questions and insights. My only regret, is I wish we would have taken more time to share the really funny parts of the book Mary Ann and Annie provided, to help the readers and characters, get through the difficult times of the Occupation. I have so many side notes in my book with smiley faces, where I laughed right out loud. There are a few days left of the discussion, plenty of time to share the humor. For me, I find today, the observance of Ash Wednesday, the beginning of my journey to, as my good friend Sr. Myra says,  "grow more in grace and holiness", a good day to say, good bye, and turn my focus toward my Bible study class, I have so neglected.  I wish you all well, and look forward to future discussions with you.  Gumtree, I loved bumping into you in the night, and my prayers will remain with you and your fellow Australians. 
As Mary Ann's last words in the book were, I too shall end with, "Praise the Lord!"
 
P.S. Annie does not recommend the Potato Peel Pie, she says, " It tastes like paste! "

[JoanP]

 So much to talk about today!  (Yes, there is still plenty of time to talk about what tickled us - especially Isola's hilarious antics in the closing scenes.)
Babi, you have been great about sharing your favorites.  Of all of us, you seem to have appreciated the humor.  Have you had the chance to try Isola's hiccup remedy, yet?  Would love to relive Isola-isms again - if you would all share your favorites - the parts you underlined.  Some were laugh-out loud, some were really so wry, you had to think for a minute.  Doesn't it feel as if the authors have chosen to end the book on a humorous, hilarious note, rather than leave us with a real, predictable romantic fairy-tale ending - actually the kind of romance ending Isola liked to read!  Were there any other characters who brought this lightness to the story?

Gum, I was interested in your comments on Oscar Wilde...I really don't think that the purpose of including the cat letters was to show off the authors' knowledge - but we have to really dig to understand the part they played in the story.
I searched for a good long time to see if he had written any children's' tales about cats - (none that I could find - Jude did you see any?)  - There  were countless references to  his affinity to cats - His Cat-Toast theory seems to have started it, but I can't be sure.

  Oscar Wilde's Cat-Toast Device

I don't recommend you spend any time trying to figure this out, but just know that it involves a cat with nine lives, suspended between two slices of buttered toast.  If you remember, Granny Pheen's Muffin was drowned because she licked her father's butter dish.

Pedln, when you wrote of the Morgan Library's recent acquisition of O. Wilde's correspondence - I wondered just how many more of his letters have yet to surface.  It really isn't too far-fetched that this prolific letter writer - who loved to write stories, loved cats and loved children - and as Jude points out, he was on Guernsey at the time.  I missed that! 

- Lucky,  the parallel you drew - Germany, trying to drown the cat - the British survival, realizing more than one life...good thinking.  And then there was little Kit, who  had experienced the loss of her mother - the example of Solange with a full intersesting life ahead... what a remarkable story of hope for the future!

Let's watch and share Isola's antics - and let's also consider her "Private, not to be read, even after death Detection notes."
What I loved about her careful notes - (aside from the dates on which she observed nothing!) was the fact that her powers of observation had totally failed to produce the clues she needed to persuade Remy to stay on Guernsey because Dawsey loved her!

Jean, I promise to correct the Darcy spelling in the Interview in the heading - just as soon as Laura gets here and we add the latest comments from Annie Barrows.    You nailed the connection between the two when none of the rest of us did!

I have a question for those of you who were unhappy with the ending.  How would you like to have seen the story end?

[pedln]

JoanP, as far as this book is concerned I will no longer believe in coincidence.  Mary Ann Shaffer was a marvel – just so sly and smart, really clever.  She had to have known about that Cat-Toast device  (which I will again try to access after I get my broadband sometime this week) – suspended between buttered toast.  Granny’s cat licking the butter dish --  glory be!

What have we missed?        

Babi, you have a knack for picking out pertinent comments and scenes.

At last, Juliet ‘seizes the day’. ‘Goaded by a piece of rock’, as Isola puts it.

How many Isolaisms have we found?  And when did Juliet first mention the “rock?”  Early on, sometime.

[Laura]

I'm here to post the rest of Annie's comments from the B&N discussion.  I think I will do a question a post, so here comes a string of posts!


Who was your favorite character of the Literary Society?
 
________________________________________
Annie:  Hmm.Characters really are like your children--you love them all, even when they misbehave. However, I have to admit that I'm especially fond of Clovis Fossey because he is a true lover of poetry. But I also love Booker, and Isola, and Thompson Stubbins and Will Thisbee and . . . you see the problem. If I was able to attend one meeting, though, I think I would choose one in which Dawsey spoke--I can imagine how everyone would lean forward to hear him, because he talks so little, and I can imagine how much he would care about his book. I adore Dawsey.

[Laura]

Why did you decide to add Mark into the mix?   

Annie:  Mark does serve the purpose of making Juliet understand who she truly is and what she truly values, and he throws the Islanders into high relief, with his sense of entitlement, his demands, and his terse messages. Also, to be honest, he plays such a large role because he was such fun to write--and because he allowed me to write the date in the proper order for once!

[Laura]

Did you know from the beginning the outcome for Elizabeth? Did you ever think of changing it? It probably had to be the way it was to make the story more poignant, but you must have become attached to her. Was that a difficult decision to make?
________________________________________
Annie:  It was the most difficult part of writing the book, both for Mary Ann and for me. We wanted Elizabeth to live, just like everyone else, but to write that happy ending would have been dishonest. Guernsey is a World War Two story, and the truth of the war was death and death and death.There were certainly some surprise escapes and triumphs, but the far larger reality was irrational, unjust, impassive destruction. We hated it, but we had to do it.

[Laura]

This is my own comment on how I felt about the letter format.

The book being composed of letters made me feel like I was back in time, when people really did communicate this way.  I liked having to piece together things, based on what was in different letters.  I especially liked reading what information and what tone the letters took, depending on who they were coming from and who they were to.  I also liked seeing the relationships evolve as the letters contain more and more personal information and take on more familiar rather than formal tones.
 
I did find myself making use of the dates and the note at the top of the letter as to who it was from with every letter.

[Laura]

Were all the characters invented from the onset or did they come along as the novel progressed?
________________________________________

Annie:  Juliet and Elizabeth were always the center of the story, and the other major characters came in very early. Many of the later arrivals were those folks on the Island who wrote to Juliet about their wartime experiences--Sally Ann Frobisher and Micah Daniels, for example. Many characters grew enormously in importance as we went on.

[Laura]

Although I may have missed it I noticed not a single letter was written FROM Sophie.  I've been discussing various theories with some friends (I have a particularly far out theory) and we were wondering if you or anybody would be willing to comment.
________________________________________
Annie:  Aha! A close reader! I'd love to hear your theories, and they're probably more interesting than the truth, which is that Sophie's voice, as we imagined it, was too close to Juliet's--same age, same education, similar life experience. Also, I think one of the fabulous characteristics of novels written in letters is what's NOT there. That way the reader is goaded into working for us.

[Laura]

Annie's comment on the form of the novel.

Annie:  I think the problem with most epistolery novels is too few narrators. It's very difficult to believe in a story that's told through forty-page letters by one character (who writes forty-page letters, much less forty-page letters complete with dialogue, descriptions, and background?). I believe the solution is not to bag the epistolery novel, but to have so many characters that no single one is responsible for all the story-telling. I have to say, it was tremendous fun to tell a story through so many voices. Each one gives the story a separate little charge, and each one has his or her own quirks and ideas. I don't know how I'm going to return to regular narrative again.

[Laura]

How come Mr. Fox never joined the Literary Society?  You do not mention him after he closes the book store.  I hoped he had not encountered ill fate.
________________________________________
 
Annie:  Well, that's an interesting question. I didn't actually come up with a fate for Mr. Fox, but let's make one now. I would hate for him to come to an unfortunate end, so no arrests or death in prison or anything malign. Here's what comes to mind. 1. Mr. Fox IS a member of the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society (not all the members write letters, e.g., Jonas Skeeter) and is constantly telling the rest of the members not to break the binding, dog-ear the pages, or write in the margins. 2. Mr. Fox became so enraged when he learned that books were being burnt for fuel during the Occupation that he set sail for the island of Herm with the remnants of his collection and now lives in a dugout on that unpopulated island. He lives to a vast old age and throws rocks at picnickers who visit the island.  Any other ideas, anyone?

[Laura]

Why was Mr. Dilwyn chosen as Kit's guardian?  There is very little mention of him in any of the letters.  My thinking is that he might have been the Island barrister.
________________________________________
Annie:  Mr. Dilwyn isn't exactly Kit's guardian; he's the trustee of Sir Ambrose's estate, to which Kit is heir. Elizabeth left no designated guardian for Kit, and that's why she was raised by Amelia, Dawsey, and Isola in turn, but Mr. Dilwyn, as trustee for the estate of a minor, would have some authority over her living arrangements. Mr. Dilwyn is a banker, rather than a barrister, but he's also a generally prominent and trusted figure.

[Laura]

Kit and Juliet are a beautiful match being that Juliet has such insight of the challenges Kit has faced (and maybe will face as she matures) regarding losing her parents. Additionally, Juliet and Kit have many similarities in character and disposition. Was the little girl developed while the book was being written or was she planned to be a character before the actual book writing began? Please explain the idea behind developing the character of Kit.
________________________________________
Annie:  Kit was part of the earliest concept of the book. From a plot perspective, she serves as evidence of Elizabeth's life and her relationship with Christian. Perhaps Kit is, in some ways, the letter that Elizabeth never wrote. But aside from plot, I think Mary Ann included Kit because she just loved children. My mother believes that Mary Ann based Kit on my younger daughter (and it's true that they both decline spinach in the same way). Juliet has a natural sympathy with children--witness Dominic--but she and Kit are a special match.

[Steph]

 I liked the book, loved Isola.. thought Kit interesting, but a bit doubtful for a child.. Juliet.. I would guess I just never warmed up to her the way others did. I loved Elizabeth, but she was definitely doomed from the start. Juliet and Elizabeth could not co exist on the island..

[Laura]

Annie, would you comment on how and why the journal format was used?  Thanks.
________________________________________
Annie:  The only other way for the climax to play out would be in a letter (or letters) from Juliet to Sidney or Sophie, and I think this would have mired us right smack in the middle of the episistolery problem. It's just not natural for someone in the throes of love to sit down and write a twenty-page letter telling how it all shook down. There was no precedent--or rationale--for the members of the Society to write to one another, and for one of them to do so would again have been counter-intuitive. It didn't seem to us that consistency of format was terrifically important. So the solution was to switch to the journal, and who better to rely upon than Isola, who is utterly likely to be in the center of the action and utterly unlikely to interpret the action correctly. Plus, I have to admit, Isola's voice is a pleasure to write.

[pedln]

Oh Laura, thank you, thank you, thank you.  What a delightful treat to read all your questions and Annie Barrows answers that you have so thoughtfully shared with us.

I want to go back and reread and comment, but if I don't get into my swim suit and off to the Fitness Center this minute I will end up saying, "nuts to it," and stay home and become an unbendable metal rod.  So, later.

But how lovely of you, and of Annie.  Fantastic.

[BarbStAubrey]

 Yes, Fantastic - loved how humor was inserted even while answering questions about the characters. Mr. Fox on a deserted Island thowing things at tourists - I love it...

Along those lines is there, or was there and I missed it, an actual recipe for the Potato Peel Pie - I am imagining a sort of Shepherd's pie since they had all those potatoes along with veggies from their garden, cooked in sea water, minus the meat since we know neither meat or fish was available and the potato peels used as a crust.

[EvelynMC]

As I think I mentioned before, I read this book in its entirety last Aug or Sept and read it again as we discussed it. I thought it was a very thoughtful, well written book.  I enjoyed the humor and was very concerned for all these islanders as the story unfolded and we learned about the German occupation.

I always liked Juliet, she was giddy and I think somewhat of a free spirit.  But she really cared about the islanders and as she got to know them through their letters she just had to meet them.  And I felt that I had to meet them too.

I pictured Dawsey as physically different.  She said he was small and very thin but strong, I guess she meant wiry.  I pictured him as bigger, but of course after the deprivations of the war, everyone was too thin.

I liked Dawsey from the beginning.  Sending her the flowers which were her favorites, laying in the hayloft reading the book of poetry.  He was a kind and sensitive man. 

I was hoping they would get together and make a home for Kit, and they did.

It was a lovely story of people coming together, dealing with, and overcoming adversity and falling in love along the way. I enjoyed this book very much.

Thank you JoanP and Pedlin for leading the discussion.

I'm sorry I didn't contribute more, but everyone had so much to say...I just didn't know what I could add.  As I take part  in more book discussions, perhaps I'll be able to add more. In the meantime, I guess I'm a lurker.

Evelyn

[BarbStAubrey]

A few thoughts I cannot let go by - Elizabeth's death and the change in the characters and voice of the story after her death.

I have read how within our literary DNA are symbolic meanings - just as we all know without words that red is a sign to stop while green is go forward and a red and white striped pole says a Barbar practices his trade on that site -  I have two books filled with the symbolic meaning of expression - the ceremony written that pictures Elizabeth's death grabbed me and this is what I learned.

The Poplar tee is a tree of the waters depicting the Elysian Fields.

An allee of poplar trees is like an arbor over a walkway and therefore symbolic of a passage which depicts the change from one plane to another, from this world to the next transcended by mind and spirit.

Kneeling is a generative force showing strength depicting homage to a superior, supplication , submission and inferiority.

The head which can be transfered to reading the head bumps - but for Elizabeth she was shot in the back of her head. - the head along with the heart is the chief member of the body, the seat of life-force and the soul with its power. It denotes wisdom; mind; control; rule. The head is the seat of both intelligence and folly and is the first object of both honour and dishonour: the crown of glory and wreath of victory are placed on the head, but so are the ashes of mourning and penitence, the fool's cap and the coals of fire. In consecration and dedication the head is crowned or shaven. There is more written and many cultures as well as religions have additional symbolisms for the head.

And so that is the image of Elizabeth we have at the climax of the story -

While reading a story, the theme might not be that obvious at first. Many people confuse the theme with the subject of the story, but a theme is more abstract than the subject. The theme of a story is the idea that holds the story together. In essence, a theme is the main idea or some type of lesson or message that the author wants to convey to the reader. http://classiclit.about.com/od/bytheme1/ht/aa_identitheme.htm

there are other links that agree with the how we find a theme - we are told to look how the protagonist changes - and there is the big question --- if this is a story about Elizabeth then her change is her death - before her death we see little change in the stories of how she lived her life.

I am thinking the protagonist is Juliet - what is the change and where in the story does it occur - Before Elizabeth's death is revealed Juliet is a breezy witty writer reacting to life like a ball being hit in a racket ball court. She continues with  her headlong impulses, writing full of wit even after she comes to Guernsey.

I see the change to a less confident, questioning who Dawsey is really, caring about Kit, quiet and warm picnic on the beach - she seems more solid without the breezy nature and need for independence that she adapted after the death of her parents. I think the climax for Juliet was when Kit came flying in, raised her skirt a quarter of an inch and kissed her kneecap.

Symbolism again, a Child embodies potentialities, possibilities of the future, simplicity, innocence, and a higher transformation of the  individuality reborn into perfection.

A Kiss is a token of good will; peace; sealing a pact; good faith; fellowship;  reconciliation; affection. We know from Elizabeth's symbolism that a knee is the generative force; vitality; strength.

I think that Juliet was hiding her real strength under her breezey witticisms after she sealed up with the death of her parents. If the death of her parents had no meaning to her character then why include it.

As to Isola taking on the importance after Elizabeth's death - I think the ping pong between Elizabeth and Juliet moved the story along till Elizabeth's death and then we are left with a maturing Juliet without a counter character - who of the Literary society could finish the story -  Isola tells us Dawsey became more quiet - Eben is an old man - readers would not have put up with listening to Adelaide and so who else to move the story forward. Reading the heads and therefore the souls of the islanders was a brilliant bit of theatre that made her in my mind a voodoo princes.

The end to me shows Juliet re-capturing her spirit of going forward without fear that seemed lost as she dithered over how Dawsey thought of her - she was heading that way when we read how while telling off Mark she brings up Charles Lamb.

[straudetwo]

There is so much to respond to - even the responses call for answers - and so little time!
This discussion has been tremendous; we have scrutinized every possible aspect and literary references. In Juliet's letter to Sophie of September 7, 1946,  a small leather book  of Rilke's poetry is referred to, a gift for Eliabeth from Christian.  Was that mentioned?  Have I missed it?

Like Barbara, I saw humor in the book, not the rip-roaring variety of course, but a bit of levity, which can be such a godsend. The energetic Isola provided a good part of it - a marvelously drawn character - and she becomes the catalyst for the happy ending.  How did you feel about the timing?

Frankly, Juliet did not grow on me. I too found her "giddy" (as someone described her earlier) and rather self-absorbed, too,  at least until she met little Kit.

IMHO we have no choice but to accept the book as it is written. It is futile to speculate how much Annie Barrows added  to or omitted from the original manuscript.  In her Acknowledgement Annie says "Susan's strength of vision was essential in making the book what it wanted to be ..."

Epistolary novels are not necessarily and not always written by different characters.  An excellent example was written by Jane Gardam, a British author in her early eighties, who is the same age as Anita Brookner but, alas,  not nearly as well known in this country  The book o which I am referring is "Queen of the Tambourine", an epistolary novel written by one person (who's a bit odd) to her neighbor, who never answers. It was a fantastic read for me. I won't divulge any details so as not to spoil it for anyone interested to read it.

From all we have seen, the Channel Islands certainly look like a part of paradise. Victor Hugo must have thought so. He spent nineteen years of voluntary exile there, first on Jersey, then on Guernsey, where he wrote "Les Misérables".



 

[Babi]

I don't think we have been giving Dawsey enough credit.  Remember that he is the 'go-to' guy among this group of friends.  When there is a problem, everyone heaves a sigh of relief when Dawsey shows up. Dawsey can always take care of it.  He is obviously intelligent, capable, and a natural leader. We seem to consider him a mismatch for Juliet because he is an Islander and she is from sophisticated London.  'Sophistication' has never been all that important a trait to me.

I would like to offer this commentary, from Seneca’s letter on “Maxims”.   His correspondent had asked him to include in each of his letters ‘selected sayings of our outstanding teachers’.   He refused, replying that “You may recognize unevenness in a work when attention is attracted by what raises above the level”.
 He considered that an intelligent, well-educated adult should be ‘producing bons mots, not quoting them.’   I particularly appreciated these lines:  “The men who made the old paths are not our suzerains but our pioneers.  Truth is open to all; it has not been pre-empted.  Much of it is left for future generations.”

[pedln]

Laura, the answers you received from Annie Barrows are a treasure trove of information.  We are just so fortunate to have this.  I am impressed with how the authors endeavored to remain true to all the various aspects of the story, how they paid attention to the fine print– for example, not having any letters from Sophie because  her voice was so similar to Juliet’s.  And using the journal format in the end because having islanders writing to one another  was simply off base.  (They've convinced me that sometimes you have to move out of format to make the story progress correctly.)

Thinking about Elizabeth, Juliet, and Kit – they are all orphaned at a relatively young age, their upbringing is not typical – they are allowed a great deal of freedom, can choose their own paths. So many similarities between the three of them.

Barbara, you have given us much to think about and ponder

I think the climax for Juliet was when Kit came flying in, raised her skirt a quarter of an inch and kissed her kneecap.

  from Barbara

That was lovely, wasn’t it.  And I liked when she patted Juliet’s face until she woke up, then gave her her box of treasures.  Showing such trust.

Traudeee,  Queen of the Tambourine sounds interesting.  Now that y ou mention in,  an epistolary written by one person offers up a lot of interesting possibillities.

I think the reason I like this format so much is that one gets acquainted with the characters quickly. Everyone cuts right to the chase; they don’t put in a lot of erroneous stuff.  What’s there is there for reason.

Babi, Dawsey is the practical one.  While everyone else is greeting the newcomer, he’s making sure her bags are on the the right cart.  He tries to keep a tipsy Booker quiet, and then gets him home.  As you say, everyone depends on him.  I thought it interesting that he had all these Juliet momentos, but was really not doing anything to push forward his cause.  She had to propose, didn’t she.

Evelyn, I’m so glad that you joined this discussions.  We welcome your comments and you did just fine.  As for being a lurker, I think there’s a bit of that in all of us.

More later, but I'm off to the Stars and Stripes Museum in Bloomfield, MO -- checking it out for a future Red Hats trip.

What were some of your favorite parts.  Hard to choose, there were so many.

[Laura]

Here's my favorite part, from the very end of the book:

Juliet said, "A lot of men don't keep mementos, Isola.  Don't want keepsakes.  That doesn't necessarily mean a thing.  What on earth were you looking for?"
 
"Evidence, like Miss Marple does.  But no, not even a picture of her.  There's lots of pictures of you and Kit, and several of you by yourself.  One of you wrapped up in that lace curtain, being a Dead Bride.  He's kept all your letters tied up in hat blue hair ribbon --- the one you thought you'd lost.  I know he wrote Remy at the hospice, and she must have written him back --- but no, nary a letter from Remy.  Not even her handkerchief --- oh, he found one of yours.  You might want it back, it's a pretty thing."

I found myself wanting to laugh at the absurdity of the situation, to cry with joy over Dawsey loving Juliet, to strangle Isola for her meddling stupidity, and to shout hooray for a happy ending all at the same time when I read this passage.

[straudetwo]

Oh yes, the book contains many wise and memorable remarks, some expressed in the voices Society members in talking about their chosen book. Take Augustus about the "The Canterbury Tales", for example.  All of Juliet's correspondents are vividly drawn, absolutely believable, and some are funny - like Isola. Juliet (and the authors of the book) have a flair for sketching people to perfection with a few quick strokes. That is true, I believe,  especially for the depiction of Mark and Dawsey.

What interested me was not so much whom Juliet would eventually marry, but the story of the GLAPPP Society itself,  a story about man's inhumanity to man, about the suffering to which innocents are subjected in wartime; about human resilience and perseverance in desperate circumstances; about the miracle of unexpected kindness- even love; about hope, and about healing.  Moreover I believe that Juliet was not only a healer but she herself was  healed, and who could ask for more?

I don't know whether Rilke's poetry was mentioned, but since the reference is in the book, I'd like to pick it up.  Rainer Maria Rilke (1875-1926), is considered one of the finest German poets and prose writers of the 20th century.  LikeFranz Kafka, twelve years his junior,  Rilke was born in Prague, which was then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.   Rilke anthologies are available on the net, superbly translated.
(It as not uncommon at that time to give a son the second name of "Maria".)

[BarbStAubrey]

Ahhh  Yes!!!

Juliet was not only a healer but she herself was healed, and who could ask for more?

That I think is the underlining theme - it is the arc of Juliet - from the first pages as she describes meringue served at a London luncheon - to the last page - Dawsey demanding her immediate attention after Juliet suggests marriage is only the beginning not the end. Along the way I see Juliet has opened herself for the vulnerabilities of receiving and giving love.

And the other theme that you hit the nail on the head

a story about man's inhumanity to man, about the suffering to which innocents are subjected in wartime; about human resilience and perseverance in desperate circumstances; about the miracle of unexpected kindness- even love; about hope, and about healing.

Perfect - I am at peace - that nails it for me - thankyou   

[Gumtree]

Yes, as ever, Traude's eloquence captures the essence.

I'm one of those who prefer to read a book without necessarily knowing anything about the author or what he/she intended by writing about it. I know that, as in this discussion, such knowledge amplifies the text but I always come back to the fact that a book is a work of art and any work of art must stand alone. The reader/viewer/listener must first see it for itself - but naturally a  good book leads one to explore further possibilities during subsequent readings and on occasion, during the first.

Whilst it was great to have Annie Barrows' input (and I'm grateful to those who pursued and shared that information ) I really feel that Annie's responses, while interesting in themselves, were not important to the story otherwise the authors would have included that matter in the text. I know that all sounds too black and white but fundamentally that's how I feel about it.

I'm sure just about everything has been raised and discussed in different ways already but there is one little matter which I don't think came up -

Did anyone consider that Elizabeth may have been Dawsey's first love (unrequited). He could well have worshipped from afar - certainly he wasn't given to expressing his feelings even to Juliet - despite collecting mementos. Elizabeth and Dawsey were of an age and he would have seen her  each time she came to the island while she was growing up. When Dawsey saw Elizabeth and Christian together for the first time he quickly moved away because he could see how it was with them. I wondered whether he was cut to the quick. Dawsey, of all people, would not be one to tell anyone how he felt about it.
 Then along comes Juliet, who in many ways is very like Elizabeth - lively, impulsive, caring, and searching for someone to love, a family and a home...I'm not suggesting that Juliet was second best but just that at some stage Dawsey could well have had a 'thing' for Elizabeth.

As for Juliet, apart from falling for Dawsey (and we've got to remember that there's no accounting for that attraction) she  also succumbed to the beauty of Guernsey and I don't doubt she would be happy living on Dawsey's farm, writing her books, caring for Kit and no doubt raising her own children - after all, she was a farmer's daughter but since leaving school she  has lived in London. How her soul must have yearned for the countryside.

It was delightful to meet all the characters - so diverse, so real and so interesting in themselves. Isola stands out. Her bird, Zenobia brought to mind that one Charlotte Bronte's characters was named Zenobia and that she too, like Isola's bird, 'had a jealous nature'.
The introduction Mary Ann Schaffer's favourite authors to explore their characteristics was a great touch but underlying all of this is the story of Guernsey and its people, their deprivation and travail during the Occupation and the courage and resilience they showed in the face of adversity.

I loved the book - so many facets and so many layers to explore now   as the whim takes me. - Rilke for instance - I have only ever read a few of his poems and that so long ago it's hard to remember them but I rather think there was a certain elegance about them. Maybe I'll look for a volume of his work at the library.

[BarbStAubrey]

there's no accounting for that attraction

Thinking about it - it was probably in front of us the whole time - since Childhood Juliet, after her parents died, did not have what Dawsey offered - a solid, quite strength that would be there for her and as you say allows her to live in the country again as she did when she lived with Sophie and Sidney.

And yes, I agree - having an author's input is grand but it does not substitute for the reader's work to find the metaphors, the allusions and symbolism within a story that ultimately leads to the theme - that which is under the plot and tells us what is the purpose of the place, characters, actions, symbols, metaphors. By taking the time to understand how to read Literature for a few books makes it a natural extension of our reading any book.
To me it is like enjoying a garden - you can sit and have a glass of wine and enjoy the color and look of the garden or you can walk along enjoying not only the overall ambiance but by knowing the growing habits of the plants you can admire the skill that was used to include various plants and train various plants or prune an espalier. To know the symbolic meaning of plants is to know the message from the gardener. To know the names of herbs can allow you to find how the herbs can assist our health and tastes in cooking.

Because we know the growing habits of the plants we can know what to expect the garden's care will require and when the garden will peak, what plants will have to be replaced and what plants will reseed themselves. To really appreciate the work of a gardener is to know the plants the gardener is using to create the ambiance we so enjoyed with that glass of wine or glass of iced tea.

[Babi]

I see I am not the only one who feels STRAUDE expressed our feelings perfectly.  "...about human resilience and perseverance in desperate circumstances; about the miracle of unexpected kindness- even love; about hope, and about healing."  This, to me, is what made this book so moving and so enjoyable.
  I am so glad to have read this book and to have been able to talk about it with others.  Thank you so much, Pedln and JoanP.

[Gumtree]

I really didn't realise how close we are to the end of this discussion. Already it is the 28th so I must say a big

Thank You to Pedln and JoanP

Thanks for hosting:

GLPPPS  - FIRST BOOK OF THE MONTH ON THE NEW SITE

[/b]

Loved it !

GUM

[JoanP]

Thank you, Gum& Babi - but I know I can speak for Pedln, the pleasure was all ours!  We enjoyed the book on so many levels, but your input was what made the discussion so rewarding.

Gum, Barbara - I hear what you are saying about author input.  We want to learn from this experience.  It is "grand" to learn of the authors' intent, research, etc, but perhaps we need to wait until we have all read - and discussed the book first.  The same thing goes for inviting an author into one of our discussions.

As Barbara says, it is "the reader's job to find the metaphors, the allusions and symbolism within a story that ultimately leads to the theme"...and I think as a group, we come to the realization of the theme during the discussion. 

There are some of us  who enjoyed reading the book for the story, without delving into the symbolism, metaphors, etc., but as you say, it is the more abstract, underlying theme that holds the story together. 
I feel that through this discussion, we reached a consensus of the underlying theme, so well summarized by Traudee.

From some of Annie Barrow's comments, I enjoy the realization that perhaps we are seeing more in the story than even the authors fully realized.  The two of them did such a good job depicting the characters that we now see them as real people, with pasts and motivations...Gum, I think it is very possible that Dawsey and Elizabeth had once been an item before the war.  Do you think the authors had this in mind  in their frequent allusions to Pride and Prejudice?  Annie Barrows answered Jean's question that "Dawsey's name is related to Mr. Darcy's"  Did you notice that Mr. Darcy's love interest in P&P is Elizabeth Bennett?
So many interesting items posted here yesterday.  I can't wait to get to them, but must get to "gym" class today as I've missed far to many.
GUM, we  do have two or  more whole days - and I'm looking forward to more of your eye-opening comments!

Carpe diem!

[mabel1015j]

Such eloquence from you all..............thank you for your tho'ts and analysis...........thank you Joan and Pedln for hosting us. These discussion are like having tea w/ friends who have similar interests...........so i'm brewing up some English tea in honor of Juliet and her friends...................and waiting for the next book and discussion.........actually i'm going to Ella's house for Team of Rivals..................loved it, thank you all again................jean

[JudeS]

Dear Pedlin and JoanP,

I will end with this quote from Christopher Morley from "The Haunted Bookshop""

"There is no such thing as a good book.  A book is good only when it meets some human hunger or refutes some human error.  A book that is good for me would very likely be punk for you....There is no one so grateful as the man to whom you have just given the book his soul needed and he never knew it."

I don't remember where  I found this quote. Was it in this book? However it seemed an appropriate place and time for it.

See you with the Hedgehog in hand.

Jude