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| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/3cupstea/3cupsofteacvr.jpg) |
Three Cups of Tea
by
Greg Mortenson & David Oliver Relin
Three Cups of Tea is an inspirational story of one man's efforts to address poverty, educate girls, and overcome cultural divides. This book won the 2007 Kiriyama Prize for nonfiction revealing the enormous obstacles inherent in becoming such "family." ~ Bookmarks Magazine
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"The first time that you share tea with a Balti, you are a stranger" a villager tells our author. "The second time, you are an honored guest. The third time you become family." ~ Three Cups of Tea
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Three Cups of Tea -- Homepage..... (http://www.threecupsoftea.com/)
Ignorance -- the Real Enemy..... (http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=22471)
Synopsis and Biography..... (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Three-Cups-of-Tea/Greg-Mortenson/e/9780143038252/?itm=1) | . | Three Cups of Tea is currently #1 on both
the Washington Post and the
NY Times Non-Fiction Best Seller lists. |
Discussion Leaders: Andy(ALF43) (WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM), JoanK (jkraft@socal.rr.com) & Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net)
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"Welcome to SeniorLearn's discussion of the award winning true story Three Cups of Tea, the most extraordinary humanitarian mission of our time. Greg Mortenson, the co-author of this book shares his story of how a mountain climb resulted in a humanitarian effort which has resulted in the construction of about 80 schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
Read with us and discuss your thoughts. Let us know if you agree with the author who believes:
"Fighting terrorism is based in fear, but promoting peace is based in hope."
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The word is out. Every year 200 to 300 names are nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize (and not leaked for 50 years), but those in the know say that Greg Mortenson’s book about one man’s effort to build peace, Three Cups of Tea, has officially been nominated for this prize. What an exciting time to read this book
In a recent Reuters interview, Mortenson explains why he feels it is so important to educate girls.
"The way to curb population growth is female literacy. When girls learn to read and write in impoverished areas they teach their mothers to do so. When girls learn to read, you will see mothers unfold the newspaper... and ask the girls to read to them. This is the first time women can get accurate information about what is going on in the world."
Join us in May as we read and discuss Three Cups of Tea, and if your small grandchildren are nearby, read to them the children’s version of Mortenson’s book, Listen to the Wind. There is also a young adult version of the same title.
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This is going to be really exciting. I've started the book, and had to force myself to put it down. Come and join what I think will be a really GREAT discussion. In a time of worry and anxiety, we need to hear how one person, with nothing but his own strength of purpose, can spread hope.
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OK, I'm in.
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JOAN - I'm delighted to see that Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea has been proposed, since I certainly enjoyed it and the recent discussion about his adventures with our local Library, which asked me to talk about Afghan culture in connection with the book. There were fascinating points which the various BookEnds members took away after completing the book - and which they shared eagerly with each other (and me) - thus enabling us to have a broad sense of what "spoke" to each reader. And when the readers learned the cultural meaning of the book's title, they broke out in applause. I recommend the book with enthusiasm as it is truly an opportunity to see how one man's initial efforts made a huge difference in an unknown (to the Westerner) world region. For those posters who might like to introduce children and/or youth to the topic, Mortenson's Listen to the Wind is a delightful selection.
Here is a link to the several editions of Mortenson's tales about his adventures in Central Asia.
NOTE: Listen to the Wind is especially appropriate for children to learn about the rural village in Pakistan and perhaps to consider how best to relate to and understand the children of those villages. It has also served in our community to interest youngsters to contribute their pennies to projects designed for the village children.
Mortensen's Tales (https://www.discountbooksale.com/store/productslist.aspx?ProdID=131&ec=1&sort=3&AWTrck=1035649422&searchAuthor=Mortenson+Greg&gclid=CKy85vKZsJkCFQFqxwodeGLtIw)
Mahlia
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PATH: great to see you here! MAHLIA: we will rely on your knowledge of Afganistan to help us understand this adventure. Your posts always light up any discussion you're in.
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It will be MY pleasure to join in the discussion and learn about the impressions of others about Mortenson's efforts to bring about a better understanding of the region, while sharing some of his own unique experiences.
At the moment, I am listening in the background to a marvelous PBS program - "Cantors" - which among its selections features the Jewish traditional music of the Middle East. As I sign along with some of the verses, I am reminded of the wonderful stories I learned as a child.
The Diaspora was world-wide, so many traditions (including music) include regional and local hints of the populations - some Jewish, others not. I recall humming and singing some of the verses to a couple of similar songs when I was in Iran many years ago. That little bit of vanity on my part led me to meet two marvelous Persian Jewish families.
Mahlia
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JOAN - Here is the CBS News link to an interview with author Greg Mortenson in which he explains how/why he was persuaded to write Three Cups of Tea. Reading the book AND listening to his interview gives one a more complete understanding of why he was persuaded to write of his experiences in Central Asia. Perhaps you may want to add this link to the Proposed discussion site.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/04/sunday/main4697362.shtml
Mahlia
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Have ordered the book.
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MAHLIA- THANK YOU! That interview is very impressive, isn't it? A legacy of peace for the children has begun. I think that we should link that CBS interview at the top Pat.
Thanks again.
kidsal- I am delighted that you will be joining us. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors. This should be an interesting discussion.
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Kidsal, PatH, and Mahlia, so glad you'll be joining us.
And Mahlia, thank you for the link to that interview. It's good to have one so recent. And so interesting -- I didn't know he was an ER nurse.
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Here's one more link to an interesting report on Afghan culture from The New Hours with Jim Lehrer. One of their female reporters has been in country talking to Afghan women of varying backgrounds, as well as school girls who are not afraid to step forward and let it be known that they want/need an education and plan to get the very best they can. Some of the comments about females in Afghan culture are heart breaking, but unfortunately true.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june09/afghanwomen_03-20.html
If anyone works with local libraries, it would be an excellent opportunity while the Mortenson discussion takes shape here to suggest that the Libraries (especially the children and youth sections) feature Mortenson's books and create opportunities for American kids to learn about and possibly help the Afghan youth. Just a suggestion, but I know of several in our area which have done so with great interest on the parts of the kids, who shared the info with their school classes. I've even encouraged Scouts to get involved in this topic as one of their international commitments.
Mahlia
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thanks for the great links, PERSIAN. We'll get them into the heading.
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Count me in! I'll pick up the book this week. I've been reading "A Short Walk in the Hindu Kush" by Eric Newby to get a feel for the Afghan countryside. That was written back in 1958 so it's definitely not contemporary but the terrain, of course, does not change and it doesn't hurt to have some historical perspective on anything we do. I also suspect that things don't change too much for the folks in the hinterlands from one year to the next.
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Welcome. JOANR! I think you'll like this book a lot.
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It looks like Gregg Mortenson has accomplished a task I would have considered almost impossible-that of building schools for girls under the noses of the Taliban and he has built not one school but 78 schools with ten more under construction. The man is a giant and I hope the Swedes recognize the accomplishment. If he has a Nobel Mortenson will attract much more financial support.
I came across a little book the other day compiled by a man named I.M. Kunna. It is a book in catechetic format designed for western Islamic women. Question #35: What is the best position Islam prefers for women? Answer: Housewives. Q 81: Who has the right to divorce? A: Men, because women are sensational. Q 93: What are the husband's right from a wife? A: Obedience, conservation of his money, dignity and patience if poor. Q151: What is Islam's direction toward dower? (Dower is the price paid for woman) A. The less, the better. Q 211: What is the penalty of a married adulterer, in Islam? A: Stoning to death. Q 237: What was the first cause of the corruption of the children of Israel? A: Women.
This looks like a discussion I am going to enjoy.
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Oh Justin, there you are! I was hoping my link wouldn't self destruct.
Sadly, as you have noted, the world is still most dire for many Islamic women.
We will enjoy your insight in this discussion. Welcome aboard!
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great, Justin. Glad to see you.
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JoanR and Justin, terrific that you're joining us. And everyone is bringing along such interesting information. This is going to be a great discussion.
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For those who might be interested, ABC Anchor Charles Gibson announced tonight that Greg Mortenson's interview about his experiences in Afghanistan will be included in tomorrow evening's (Friday, March 27) news segment "Making a Difference."
JUSTIN - May I ask the title of the book by I. M. Kunna to which you refer?
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Mahlia- at what time will that be aired?
Does C.Gibson have a nightly show? I never watch TV early but will Teevoo it for later viewing.
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ALF - The ABC evening news program which I watch nightly is aired at 6:30 p.m. Check your daily TV news listing or the ABC online site to see the schedule for your local time.
OR here's a link to the ABC station - click on World News to watch the program online if you prefer.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN
Mahlia
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thank you Mahlia- I am ON it.
We are very pleased that you will be with us in our discussion. Your views and your experiences are grand.
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NOTE: I just modified my post from a moment ago to include the link to the World News Evening Program.
I, too, am looking forward to this discussion.
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thank you Mahlia, I have it on to be recorded.
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Mortenson was person of the week on ABC Nightly News tonight.
Here's the link.......
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/PersonOfWeek/story?id=7188954
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Mahlia: The book title is "Miscellaneous Questions and Answers for the Muslim Women." The publisher is Darussalam of Riyadh, Houston, and Lahore pub date is December 1996. It is catalogued in King Fahd National Library Data.
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I watched Person of The Week last night. It's an amazing and inspiring story. He has given his heart to teaching the students in those schools. He sees the importance of girls receiving an education.
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I stopped in to see if I might be interested and I AM so I guess I will go to B&N and get the book I am so HAPPY my vision has been returned and I can READ again..I think of all the books I have read over the years and there were only a few whose names I forgot that were not worth the time..this one really seems to be one I dont want to miss... ;D
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I'm happy to say my library has "Three Cups of Tea". I definitely plan on joining in for this discussion. Looking forward to it...
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Babi, you and I are old timers discussing books together, aren't we? I always love it when you give me a run for my money in our discussions- you keep me on my toes and always add so much to a story. Welcome- now hop on over to your library and get your book!
Anna- I can't begin to tell you how good your post makes me feel. I am just over joyed that your vision has returned. I can't imagine anything in the world worse than me not being aboe to read. I am looking forward to your participation in Three Cups of Tea.
Hello there Hats- It is good to see you once again out here on our boards. Greg Mortenson is quite the guy, isn't he? Imagine coming down from the world's 2nd highest mountain a broken man and accomplishing what he did?
This is an awesome story. I've been doing some research on these mountain climbers- I can not imagine anyone wanting to summit these peaks but hey-- different strokes, right? Will you be reading along with us on this story. We would love to have you join in.
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Anna, Babi, Hats! Hoorah! We're going to have fun.
I'm one of those people who are always reading mountain climbing books. But somehow, I haven't read one about K2. If one of you know a good one, let me know.
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three cups is about people living in the mountains of pakistan which is very appropriate for us these days. It really helps me to understand the news lately. I loved the book and will come along with all of you since there is so much in there that one could keep reading it over and over.
I was going to pass it on to my daughter but it is really a keeper so will share with all of you instead.
claire
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Winsummm- hold on to that book for just a bit longer, we would like you to join us.
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When I checked out B&N they has several editions some for younger readers and some others some of the copies were more costly than I want to pay .please let me know which edition you are using and I will check with my library ...I have to say the comments posted made me want to really read and discuss.....
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Anna, I believe that each one of those books has a different name. We are reading Three Cups of Tea, One Man's Mission to Promote Peace. One school at a time.
The other two books are children's stories, one for the young adult and one for children younger.
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David brooks has some interesting things to say today about the people of Afghanistan. They are apparently a different breed from those we have come to know in Iraq. Both populations are Islamic and guided by Sharia and the Qu'ran but the people's response to these guides are less stringent in Afghanistan and the village people feel constrained by Taliban rule. One large problem facing any one who seeks stability in this country is that of the poppy and the poppy farmer.
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Saturday, I found out by accident that the Discovery Channel was airing "Disaster on K2". I was in time to see the end. It was about a climbing expedition, where a number of people died. It was a reconstruction, so I don't know for sure that the mountain shots they showed were actually from the regeon, but they certainly reinforced Mortensen's comments about the beauty and terror of the mountains in the region.
Look for it: Discovery usually repeats it's programs.
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Oh I like the Discovery channel Joan, too but I didn't see that one listed. I will check my Teevo list and see if it's going to be repeated.
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| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/3cupstea/3cupsofteacvr.jpg) |
Three Cups of Tea
by
Greg Mortenson & David Oliver Relin
Three Cups of Tea is an inspirational story of one man's efforts to address poverty, educate girls, and overcome cultural divides. This book won the 2007 Kiriyama Prize for nonfiction revealing the enormous obstacles inherent in becoming such "family." ~ Bookmarks Magazine
______________
"The first time that you share tea with a Balti, you are a stranger" a villager tells our author. "The second time, you are an honored guest. The third time you become family." ~ Three Cups of Tea
|
Three Cups of Tea -- Homepage..... (http://www.threecupsoftea.com/)
Ignorance -- the Real Enemy..... (http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=22471)
Synopsis and Biography..... (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Three-Cups-of-Tea/Greg-Mortenson/e/9780143038252/?itm=1) | . | Three Cups of Tea is currently #1 on both
the Washington Post and the
NY Times Non-Fiction Best Seller lists. |
Discussion Leaders: Andy(ALF43) (WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM), JoanK (jkraft@socal.rr.com) & Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net)
Indeed the numerous tribal groups in Afghanistan are significantly different from the residents of Iraq - note that although Iraq is a majority Islamic country, there have are also orthodox Christian communities, as well as Jewish residents.
Here is a link to the various tribal communities in Afghanistan, each with its own customs (reaching back over centuries) and languages. Many of the tribes are multilingual, as you might expect since their ancestors were often dependent on the numerous Caravans traversing the Middle East and on into Central Asia. Although the majority of Afghans are Muslim, their individual (and regional) tribal customs also play a major role in their adherence (or not) to Islam.
Note also that although Afghans adhere to Islam, they are NOT Arabs (just as Persians are not Arabs, although many are Muslims) and should not be confused ethnically with the Arabs of other nearby regions.
http://www.cal.org/co/afghan/apeop.html
Mahlia
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No, I think it's gone forever. I just can not imagine any one wanting to climb a "killer"mountain like K2. It is massive in size and numerous unsuccessful attempts have been made on it by various expeditions, including many American expeditions.
Good Lord, read this account (http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BWgNYrdvUSc-zBaK6zQWLrv2SDInoy3X_-uDRC8CNtwHAuAIQARgBIML5pgQoBDgAUMKvh4IHYMm2sofco9wQoAHzn_L-A7IBE3d3dy5uZXc3d29uZGVycy5jb226AQoxMjB4NjAwX2FzyAEB2gFAaHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXc3d29uZGVycy5jb20vbmF0dXJlL2VuL25vbWluZWVzL2FzaWEvYy9LMk1vdW50YWluL4ACAcgC98C2CagDAcgDB-gD6wboA7sD6AOMAvUDAAAABJgEAA&num=1&sig=AGiWqtwFXDddJX3MI6Du_t9xBy7_Uv2EhA&client=ca-pub-0373605937242416&adurl=http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200311/200311_mountains_1.html&nm=5) and shiver with me. Is anyone here, joining us, a dedicated mountain climber or know anyone who is?
It frankly scares the hell out of me.
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I'm not a mountain climber, but I'm a dedicated reader of books about mountain climbing. I'm waiting to comment too much until the discussion (we don't want to get discussed out before the discussion), but I can't resist some comments here, which I may repeat later.
I think you either "understand" why they do it, or you don't. I put "understand" in quotes, because I don't mean intellectual understanding, but a feeling: "Oh yes!". I had a long discussion with a friend about this once. she was reading books, trying to understand and couldn't. I leant her my copy of a film made of climbing Everest. I knew when she got to the top (via the film), and looked around, she would either feel it or not (she didn't). No one who tries to explain it really can.
The most popular (and very good) book written about Everest is "Into Thin Air". The best mountaineering book I've ever read for getting into the head of the climber is one that Anna, Jonathan, and I discussed a couple of years ago, by a climber in South America who fell down a crevasse, was left for dead, and literally crawled to safety. I'll haver to come back with the name.
Mortenson was incredibly lucky to have survived. The fact that he threw up all the way up his first climb of Kilimanjaro showed that he was liable to one of the worst enemies of climbers, altitude sickness. It seems that that was his problem coming down K2 --only incredible luck saved him.
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I must be one of those people then Joan. I read "Into Thin Air", enjoyed the story, enjoyed the plot but just did not GET IT, as you say. It defies logic to me.
Irregardless of the beauty, the splendor or the majesty of the mountain it doesn't call me to climb over it. I much prefer to see it on Natl. Geographic channel.
I am more capable of homicide than suicide and no matter how grand, to me it is a suicidal mission.
With my vertigo, I should make out very well, climbing. :'(
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One of my sons-in-law is a climber. He started out as a rock climber, graduated to ice, and then on to the big stuff! He has climbed in the US and Canadian Rockies, Alaska and several years ago Tibet. Scares the livin' daylights out of me but he loves it. The last 2 years now that he is in his 60's, he has been doing marathons and has finished very creditably in 2 Iron Man marathons.Actually I guess he does anything that's strenuous and pits an individual against himself - he is a professor by profession. All the rest of the family are mainly spectators!
JoanK - Have you read "A Short Walk in the Hindu Kush"?
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Well Joan, more power to you and your daughter. That would scare the "bee-jeebers" out of me. Did you look at that link above?
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JoanR: no, I haven't. Is it good?
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I think you'd like it.
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During my recent quick trip to Savannah, GA to welcome my son and his family to their new post at Ft. Stewart, he mentioned that although they were thrilled to be back in the USA after 2 1/2 years stationed in Germany, they would miss the opportunities to "climb those beautiful mountains." During his most recent posting in Germany (before knee surgery last Summer) and an earlier one in the early '80's, David had several marvelous opportunities to climb mountains, take long hikes through some beautiful valleys in Austria and enjoy the natural beauty of the many areas of Europe. Although he is no longer able to participate in such rigorous exercise, he enjoys the memories of those wonderful adventures and encourages his son and daughter to "follow in his footsteps."
My son also mentioned - again - his enormous thanks to all the "family of posters" from the former SN discussions, who prayed for he and his soldiers while they were deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and as he undertook new responsibilities in his former post in Germany. His new responsibilities in the USA include continuing to prepare Chaplains to counsel with their soldiers who will most certainly be deployed again in the Spring. So to those former SN posters who now post on this delightful site, many thanks from "Chaps."
Mahlia
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JoanK, I remember reading Into Thin Air, then seeing a production of it on TV, and then later a similar production at the IMAX Theater at the St. Louis Science Museum. The book talked about the 'ice stairs' or 'ice ladders', a very treacherous area the climbers had to face not only going up, but also coming down. When I saw them in the IMAX production I couldn't imagine how someone could do them TWICE, let alone once.
When my oldest daughter moved to the Pacific Northwest she immediately started taking mountain climbing classes, and later, preparations for climbing Mt. Ranier. My comment to her was "I don't want to know when you go up. Just tell me when you get back down." JoanR, I can't imagine someone like your daughter going through that over and over again.
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Life is full of challenges without one having to invent risky ventures. I am one who does not understand why people choose to climb mountains. My grandson and his Dad both seem to enjoy rock climbing and before the divorce my daughter also participated. I can get enough thrills just crossing the street in San Francisco on a busy afternoon. Reading the grisly excerpt provided on K2 is enough to satisfy my interest in the subject.
If this book were only about climbing challenges, I wouldn't bother to read it or talk about it. My driving interest in the book derives from it's real challenge- ie; successfully constructing a school for girls in Taliban country. One should not expect uniformity in human attitudes but I am amazed by the response from the fathers of daughters in this village. They want a school to educate their daughters. Incredible.
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I suppose the challenge is what it's all about. Pitting yourself against difficulties, and literally 'coming out on top'. You have the reward of seeing
sights most people never see, as well as the self-confidence that comes
from succeeding at a demanding challenge.
Not that I would care to try it. The ides of "ice steps" is quite enough to discourage me, thank you. I can't even successfully maneuver iced up porch steps!
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Babi- that is SO true and so funny.
Yep, that's why I read. It's called vicarious living at its best.
Persian- I'm so hapy that Chaps is home safe and sound. I know what a relief that is.
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Heck Justin just getting up in the morning can prove to be a risky adventure, can't it?
And if that weren't enough, turn on the "politicos" or the (not) worthy news broadcasts.
Life is full of challenges without one having to invent risky ventures.
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"Yep, that's why I read. It's called vicarious living at its best".
"Heck Justin just getting up in the morning can prove to be a risky adventure, can't it?"
You guys hit the nail on the head!!
You're right, too, Justin -- building schools for girls!!?! Amazing.
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If we keep up this charming banter, by May 1, we'll be on our third cup of tea.
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If not before.
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ALF - thanks! Yes indeed, it is a relief to have my son and his family back in the USA. He has been reading Three Cups of Tea and told me recently that it "truthfully depicts the region, the people and the desperate need of the children" in Afghanistan. He and some of his soldiers (and their families in the USA) identified many different ways to help the local communities with which they interacted during Chaps' deployment several years ago. While in-country, he spoke with several village elders, as well as the fathers of numerous children and youth. When he returned to the USA, Chaps' teenage son and some of his friends undertook to continue to send educational materials . . . . and still do so today. The need is great!
Mahlia
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Mahlia; Perhaps we should try to put some educational care packages together for Afghan children. Can you recommend some appropriate items for inclusion and a mechanism for getting the stuff into the right hands?
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If you're interested, here is a news item reflecting the current situation in Afghanistan. (I have forgotten how to insert a short title for the long address. Can someone tell me again?)
news story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04/04/nato.summit/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)
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Babi- I will try.
before you enter the http part which IS the url you must put [url = ]
Don't leave any spaces like I just did.
copy the url next (that's the http thingey and then close it with another bracket [/url ]
If you want to add your own words, instead of that big long http thing that comes up, you can. Add your own words such as "click here" before you close it with the url. like this-- check it out by hitting the modify button above.
CLICK HERE (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04/04/nato.summit/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)
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JUSTIN - Thanks for inquiring about how to contribute. Here is a link to the Central Asia Institute, which Greg Mortenson founded. Click on the title Projects and you'll have an idea of what is going on with the planning for the range of needs.
https://www.ikat.org/
ANY type of educational supplies - pencils, notebooks, backpacks (or smaller satchels for the youngest children), coloring items (colored pencils, crayons, small sized paint kits (including brushes), chalk, erasers, small stand-alone blackboards (the kind which can be propped up against a couple of books on a table or window ledge) - would be welcome. Since it's more feasible to ship sizable packs, community groups usually get together and either contribute funds or purchase, pack and ship supplies.
The Pennies for Peace project is an excellent opportunity for American children and youth to band together to collect pennies (and, of course, other coins) for the children in Central Asia. This type of collection can be in conjunction with a bake sale, a yard sale or any other type of sale with the proceeds designated to the Asian children and their needs. OR the donors can simply bring their jars, cans, socks full of pennies to a designated site, where the coins will be counted. Click on the Pennies for Peace title at Mortenson's site and you'll find more info about this program.
Depending on where you live (and your interest in dealing with the military), you might contact a nearby post and inquire if they have a program which would allow folks to collect and contribute either supplies or donations for the Asian children. Some of the military posts are VERY active via their families - especially those who have had members serve in earlier deployments or are overseas now. In the latter category, the contributions would be sent by military families at home to their relatives who are overseas right now (usually along with tons of cookies and other snacks for the soldiers). Upon arrival overseas, the gifts for the soldiers are immediately distributed; the contributions for the Asian children are handed over to
Squad leaders for distribution to Elders (and with their permission directly to children) while on patrol. Some patrols do NOT interact with local residents (depending on their mission), while others do frequently.
The idea of contributing to the Asian children (and how best to do so) is really a matter of what YOU want to do; how often, how much, and whether you want to undertake to set up a donation/receivership site OR just write a check. Everyone has their own comfort level and time restrictions. Some grandparents get their grands involved - often several school classes.
Some VFW, Masons or other clubs establish their own collection/shipping enterprises. But whatever is done - contributions or hands-on organization - is truly much appreciated. If one has NOT personally witnessed the enormous levels of poverty and illiteracy, it is hard to imagine. But once those circumstances become clear, folks tend to be enormously generous and encourage others to be also.
And you might check with various community organizations or churches, synagogues, mosques and temples to inquire if they have programs already launched to which you could contribute.
Mahlia
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Thanks, Mahlia. I'll repeat this discussion when we are reading the book: perhaps people will want to do something jointly or individually.
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That's an absolutely fascinating link, Mahlia. While it was loading I was wondering why it was called ikat rather than CAI for Central Asia Institute, and then there was the question and the answer -- a name symbolizing the strength, beauty, and resilience of the Central Asia communities. I was especially interested in the publication Journey of Hope, that documents Mortenson's work, and was saddened to learn of the untimely death of its photographer, Deirdre Eitel.
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Resilience is indeed the key description of the Central Asian communities. One of my former students from the University of Maryland came to China while I was a visiting professor in Chongqing. During our "catch-up" conversation, she mentioned that she had also planned to travel in a group to the Northern and border regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan. When we both returned to UM and happened to meet again, this "typical" college student was a changed young lady. And she has been deeply involved in volunteer work for children in Central Asia ever since.
Mahlia
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Thanks, ALF. I'll seen if I've got it right the next time I want to use a link. If not, I'll be back. ;)
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KABUL, Afghanistan — President Hamid Karzai ordered a review on Saturday of a new law that has been criticized internationally for introducing Taliban-era restrictions on women and sanctioning marital rape.
Robert Nickelsberg/Getty Images/ New York Times
President Hamid Karzai addressed concerns about a new family law during a news conference in Kabul on Saturday.
The president defended the law, which concerns family law for the Shiite minority, and said Western news media reports were misinformed. Nevertheless, he said his justice minister would review it and make amendments if the law was found to contravene the Constitution and the freedoms that it guarantees.
“The Western media have either mistranslated or taken incorrect information and then published it,” Mr. Karzai said at a news briefing in the presidential palace on Saturday. “If there is anything in contradiction with our Constitution or Shariah, or freedoms granted by the Constitution, we will take action in close consultation with the clerics of the country.”
If changes are needed, he said, the bill would be sent back to Parliament.
Human rights officials have criticized the law, in particular for the restrictions it places on when a woman can leave her house, and for stating the circumstances in which she has to have sex with her husband.
A Shiite woman would be allowed to leave home only “for a legitimate purpose,” which the law does not define. The law also says, “Unless the wife is ill, the wife is bound to give a positive response to the sexual desires of her husband.” Critics have said that provision legalizes marital rape.
The law also outlines rules on divorce, child custody and marriage, all in ways that discriminate against women, said Soraya Sobhrang, commissioner for women’s rights at the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission.
While the law applies only to Shiites, who represent approximately 10 percent of the population, its passage could influence a proposed family law for the Sunni majority and a draft law on violence against women, Ms. Sobhrang said. “This opens the way for more discrimination,” she said.
Mr. Karzai signed the law last week after a vote in Parliament last month, Ms. Sobhrang said, adding that she had seen a copy of the law with his signature.
However, the presidential spokesman, Homayun Hamidzada, would not confirm that the president had signed the law and said only that the he was still reviewing it.
Mr. Karzai’s decision to review the law came after a storm of criticism in recent days. Canada called in the Afghan ambassador for an explanation, and NATO’s secretary general questioned why the alliance was sending men and women to fight in Afghanistan when discrimination against women was condoned by law.
Asked about the law at a news conference in Strasbourg, France, on Saturday, President Obama called it “abhorrent.”
“We think that it is very important for us to be sensitive to local culture,” he said, “but we also think that there are certain basic principles that all nations should uphold, and respect for women and respect for their freedom and integrity is an important principle.”
Also on Saturday, Italy’s defense minister said Italy was considering a temporary withdrawal of the women serving in its force in Afghanistan to protest the law, Reuters reported.
The United Nations high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, said the law represented a “huge step in the wrong direction.”
“For a new law in 2009 to target women in this way is extraordinary, reprehensible and reminiscent of the decrees made by the Taliban regime in Afghanistan in the 1990s,” Ms. Pillay said in a statement posted on her agency’s Web site. “This is another clear indication that the human rights situation in Afghanistan is getting worse, not better.”
In addition to the clauses on when women may leave the home and must submit to their husbands, Ms. Pillay said she was concerned about a section that forbids women from working or receiving education without their husband‘s permission.
Ms. Sobhrang, who has been working on the issue for the last two years, said women’s groups and the human rights commissions had worked with Parliament to introduce amendments but then the law was suddenly pushed through with only three amendments. The bill as originally drawn up by Shiite clerics barred a woman from leaving the house without her husband’s permission, she said. The parliamentary judicial commission amended that provision to say that a woman could leave the house “for a legitimate purpose.”
Mr. Karzai cited that provision in a news conference on Saturday, pointing out that the final version of the law did not ban a woman from leaving her house. But Ms. Sobhrang said even as amended the law contravened the Constitution, which recognizes equal rights for men and women. The term “for a legitimate purpose” was open to interpretation, she added.
She said Mr. Karzai had supported women’s rights in the past but seemed to have given that up in recent months. Some Western officials have speculated that he signed the law to win the support of conservative Shiite clerics in coming presidential elections.
Yet the leading cleric behind the Family Law, Sheik Muhammad Asif Mohseni, complained last week that he was dissatisfied with the amendments that Parliament had made to his original draft. Speaking on his own television channel, Tamadun Television, he objected to the introduction of a legal age for marriage, “16 for women and 18 for men,” saying that people should be able to decide for themselves.
Human rights officials consider raising the marriage age a critical step toward ending the common practice of forced marriages and the marriage of young girls.
Another amendment gave women longer custody of young children in the case of divorce. In the original draft, women could have custody of a son until he was 2 years old, and a daughter until she was 7. The amended version raises the ages to 7 for boys and 9 for girls.
Ms. Sobhrang criticized both versions for not taking into account the interests and desires of the children.
It looks to me as though the good folks of Afghanistan are still at it. Americans may curb the abusive power of the Taliban but the problem is really in the Koran and the people's submission to it's dictums and to the mullahs who interpret the Koran. What good are schools for girls if the doors are closed and locked?
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While the law applies only to Shiites,
I cannot imagine a national law that only applies to a minority section of the population. That is discrimination in itself. I can only suppose they are attempting to write 'family' laws that reflect the beliefs and customs of particular groups, but that most certainly opens the door to further discriminatory laws.
I think, JUSTIN, that the problem does not lie so much in the Koran, as in
particular interpretations reflecting a groups own cultural mores and traditions.
The Koran actually gave women a good deal more in the way of rights, control and power than they had had before.
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Babi: It is certainly true that variation in emphasis occurs depending upon cultural history and traditions but the essential element that commands men to rule over women lies in the sura 4:34. If a husband merely thinks his wife is going to disobey him he is instructed by this sura to beat her. How severely he beats her may depend upon custom or cultural heritage but the essential command cannot be denied. Members of the Wahabi tribe may beat her to death while those in Korphe may be more lenient but suspected disobedience is punishable by beating the woman.
The question of what rights a woman was accorded prior to the advent of Islam is moot really. We just don't know. I don't suppose a woman's life was ever completely free of male restriction. It is a work in progress.
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When I was in college I worked for an engineering professor during the summer. He was so proud and wished I could meet his son who was going to climb K2. His son was killed on K2 and his body was not found for many years. I imagine his father was no longer alive when they recovered his son's body.
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That is so sad.
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JUSTIN - indeed the Holy Qu'ran does indicate in Sura 34 (English translation) that "Men are the protection and maintainers of women . . ." and continues to state that ". . . the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard. These early sentences are in reference to women protecting and looking after the possessions of men (household, property, reputation, etc) in the men's absence.
The Arabic word which causes so much dispute in at least 20 English language interpretations of the Holy Qu'ran is "daraba," which has been translated to mean a variety of acts. For example, "beat, hit, strike, scourge, chastise, flog, make an example of and tap lightly (to show displeasure)."
I recall reading an article in The New York Times several years ago about an Iranian/American woman who was translating the holy book. She came across the above variances in her research and wondered how could there be encouragement to "beat" women when the Prophet Muhammad never beat women. Nor encouraged other men to beat their wives or daughters or any female relations. In the article, a renowned Islamic scholar stated that he believed the word had been "mistranslated" during the centuries, since his understanding from his own research and many years living and working in the Gulf region among very religious Muslims was that the references was one of "tribal background" which the Prophet Muhammad did NOT condone and by the 10th century, the custom of physical retaliation against women was no longer part of the local (Gulf Arab) culture.
Another reference to the meaning of the Arabic word "daraba" was noted in Edward William Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon, a 3,064-page volume from the 19th century. In that text, the definition of "daraba" was "to go away" or "separate from." In the 21st century, it means to "send away."
Thus, indeed, there are many instances where or cultural (tribal) customs, as well as different branches of Islam (coupled with country-wide customs) AND the level of male pride indicate different responses to behavior. But then that is true NOT only in Islam, but world-wide in many cultures. In my personal experiences, I have often been reminded that my interpretation of a word, phrase or understanding of a local custom may NOT be totally correct.
BABI - you make an excellent point in reminding us that women of the earlier period - especially in the time of the Prophet Muhammad and via his own personal treatment of women in his family - often gave women much more power to make their own decisions, follow through, speak for themselves, undertake business ventures and make decisions for their families without the fear of physical abuse.
KIDSAL - It is hard to imagine the grief the Father experienced, yet at the same time we can respect the intense interest and commitment which allowed his son to make the commitment to climb K2 and his Father's pride in him.
Mahlia
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Clearly your translation of the Qu'ran is different from mine. I have the Dawood translation and it is quite specific in it's description of punishment. It is unquestionably the current practice to flog women who get out of line. There were two incidents in recent weeks alone. One involved a seventy year old woman and another, a beating of a younger woman, was captured on tape and run on the evening news.
If your translation differs from mine, as substantially as you indicate, one of the translations represents a deviation from the standard text and I think, it would be at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Qu'ran as it has reached us today is the perfect, timeless, an unchanging "Word of God."
There is an evident timidity on the part of scholars to deal with the historical Qu'ran. The Sal Rushdie case engenders fear in the community and in the last twenty-five years the Yemeni fragments have lain under lock and key. Gerder Puin restored those fragments to readable form and so far as I know only two scholars have been given access. Puin thought that the documents could be dated as far back as the seventh century. They are reluctant to publish more for fear they will lose access because so many Muslims believe that everything between the two covers is just God's unaltered word.
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Those who wish to believe the Christian Bible is the 'infallible' word of God face the same dilemma. There are variations in the translations that have come down over the years. People and their works are unquestionably 'fallible'.
Persian covered the subject pretty thoroughly, but I will go ahead and add my two cents. I found the scripture you mention, JUSTIN. I thought I would copy the portion that applies. The explanatory parenthetical words are part of the text in my copy.
"As to those women on whose part ye fear
disloyalty and ill-conduct,
admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds,
(and last) beat them (lightly)....
Certainly, in these days, we deplore violence against women/wives of any kind. In all fairness, tho', we should remember that within Christian populations men could also beat their wives and/or abuse them in other ways. In some places they had no legal or financial rights whatsoever. Society as a whole has vastly improved since those days. As you say, it's a work in progress.
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JUSTIN - The English language translation of the Holy Qu'ran (including extensive footnotes) which I have was translated by the late Ustadh ABDULLAH YUSUF ALI, printed with approval by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques (King Fahd ibn Abdul Aziz, at that time the Deputy Prime Minister) with authorization from the General Presidency of the Departments of Islamic Researches, Ifta, Call and Guidance to undertake the responsibility of assuring that the published text was as true to the original as possible. My copy was presented to me by the former Saudi Arabian Ambassador in Washington DC, when I served as the former Cultural Liaison Officer at the Egyptian Embassy there.
Certainly in this edition (as in all editions of translated work), there are nuances that simply cannot be translated 100% correctly into the contemporary Western English language with which we are familiar today. However, as an American of multi-faith family heritage, I have often discussed with Muslims of both genders from various world regions (and various levels of education and faith commitment) their understanding of the treatment of women by men. In the majority of responses, men have simply replied that "women are the core of our families;"
"the hand that rocks the cradle is the center of our world; and among my own family - my husband is Egyptian - "if we men abuse women, we will be prevented from entering Heaven."
In rural global regions, where I have traveled (the Middle East particularly), rural tribal women indeed "rule the world" of the small communities. I have witnessed their influence personally.
And in discussing the topic in small family gatherings, the women have laughed uproariously, while the men have smiled quietly. In discussing the topic with only women's groups, these illiterate women have assured me that "in the mainstream" their men do NOT abuse them.
Just as in any community world-wide, there are deviants who are abusive - to each other, to children and youth, and to those whom they deem threatening or not acceptable. Sometimes, emotional and mental disorders also play a role in deviant or abusive behavior.
In the time of the Prophet Muhammad - just as in the earlier time of Jesus and the Jewish tribes - the cultural behavior was much different than what we in the 21st century are accustomed to. The deviations of behavior then were outrageous, just as they would be now, especially between the genders. Yet the Prophet Muhammad taught - and insisted - that women were to be respected and not abused. His own behavior towards the women of his family showed that clearly.
In contemporary times, there continues to be abberations of acceptable behavior on many communities. I recall reading a few months ago about a Muslim couple - in the NE I think - where the husband killed the wife. These were modern, successful business people, who had immigrated to the USA and worked hard to establish their own business. Yet the husband not only abused, but murdered his wife. There have been several other occasions reported in the media over the years where what I call "male pride" took upper stage and women in a family were abused and killed - one I recall was a young woman who had fallen in love without her father's approval. She ran away from home; the father searched for her, found her and killed her. To him, he took the correct action, according to "his culture" - not his religion, but his culture.
In my own interactions with Islamic communities, individuals and their faith leaders, some of the men are absurdly (to my way of thinking) orthodox, refusing to speak to me directly, look at me, or shake my hand (which is common in introductions in the Gulf countries). Others - even those of advanced age - are much more engaging. There seems to be a lot of personal initiative (as well as education and world awareness), involved in the differences I've witnessed and experienced personally.
BABI - you've made an excellent point: We are ALL a work in progress.
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Malia: Your background in the Middle East will do wonders for this conversation when we get started on Mortenson. It is hard to wait for the discussion to begin.
I must assume that your translation is based on the authorized version established during the caliphate of Uthman in roughly 644-656. It was written in kufic script, of course, with no vowels or diacritical points. The text , as I understand it, simply ran together with one word following another and for this reason variants tend to be recognized by muslims as of equal authority. To this day this version is regarded by believers as the authoritative word of God. In fact it is God who speaks in most surahs. There are exceptions, of course.
The Dawood translation first appeared in 1956 in England in a Penguin edition and has subsequently sold over a million copies. In making the translation the author has closely followed the commentaries of Al-Zamakhshari, Al-Baidawi and Al-Jalalayn. You have probably used this work either as a text in your comparative religion classes or as a reference long before receiving your gift from the minister.
The Dawood translation that I have is much more severe in 4:34 than you and Babi have reported. Let me quote so you can feel the power of this passage.
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you take no further action against them."
Clearly, that is a much stronger message than either of you have reported.
The problem that I see is that males see that message as a command and do as God tells them. I am more than willing to grant that it is some males and not all males who respond as strongly as the deviants we have recently seen in the newspapers. However, the passage is justification for the actions of the religious police who punish women who fail to cover up sufficiently. Similar messages can be found in the OT and NT and some Christian males of fundamental persuasion rule at home with an iron hand and their wives are persuaded to comply.
Why am I making such a point of this? When a man abuses a woman in the US he knows he is doing wrong. If he doesn't, he soon finds himself in jail and his errors are clearly explained to him. He may do it again and often does but he has no authorization from a religion to rely on for justification (except fundamental Christians). On the other hand, in Islamic countries, a man feels he is allowed to discipline his wife and that if she gets out of line and he does nothing about it, he is not much of a man to his friends and family. I argue that the problem is not with the males but with the Qu'ran. Without 4:34 religious justification would go away and abusive males could be convinced of the error of their ways. If we are ever to end the abuse of women we must start somewhere and the Qu'ran and the Bible are good places to start.
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Mahlia, the "work in progress" comment was Justin's. I was just referring back to what he had said.
BTW, I am greatly enjoying the posts from both of you. It's a pleasure to read the 'conversation'.
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JUSTIN - you are absolutely correct that the Holy Qu'ran and the Bible are "good places to start" in efforts to eliminate the abuse of women, yet it is also essential that traditional cultures be understood more thoroughly so that those efforts are NOT sidetracked needlessly.
For example, I read recently that Islam is NOT well understood in the USA and that many individuals who responded to the poll did "not know one Muslim." That may sound unusual in our multicultural country, but I was reminded of my travels in China, where I often was stared at by rural people who had obviously never seen an American. But as I continued to travel, several of my Chinese students (who often served as interpreters for me in the vast countryside) explained that the surprise in seeing me was NOT just that I was an American (since the villagers didn't know my nationality), but the paleness of my skin, the light blue color and (non-Asian) shape of my eyes, as well as my "purposeful" stride.
It was interesting to me that whereas numerous Middle Eastern Muslims (men and women) would not engage in conversation with me, the Chinese Muslims whom I met and conversed with (often in my very poor Chinese, which made them laugh often) had no qualms about talking with me, answering my questions and sharing their tea - often even 3 cups!
I've met Muslim tribesmen from the vast Western regions of China who would not otherwise have paid any attention to me whatsoever until they learned I could ride bareback thanks to the training offered to me many years ago by a wonderful Oglala Sioux elder (the grandfather of one of the students I tutored in Montana). So for me, traditional local cultural habits have always played a major role in the way I have been treated by people throughout the world who are much different than I am. And in the past few years I have found that to be especially true here in the American South to which I relocated from the metropolitan Washington DC area after a 30 year residency. The latter is very much a "work in progress," but I seldom now hear the once regularly posed question "WHERE are you from?" Now our big challenge is to get people to stop thinking my husband is Latino or Hispanic (and speaking to him in Spanish when in public), when indeed he is Egyptian.
Another local challenge for residents and elected officials in our area (20 miles NE of Charlotte, NC) is to better understand the variables of gangs and gang-warfare. Recent published stats indicate that there are more than 300,000 people of Latino and/or Hispanic heritage living within the State. Recently, the local police departments worked with TV stations to produce a special on GANGS in the area, especially those involved in drugs and sex slavery operations.
The published responses in local print and on area TV news programs indicated - again - that local residents were for the most part uninformed about the history of gangs, why they are involved in these heinous acts and how to curtail them.
Additionally, recent TV news programs and a soon-to-be-shown special on the lack of border security with Mexico further enhance the lack of wide-spread public understanding about the role of "male dominant" cultural behavior and female dependency. Recently, one local man, originally from Mexico, who was arrested in the local area, insisted that the young women (often in their early to mid teens), whom he transported and treated as sex slaves, prostrate themselves daily in front of a statue of St. Muerte (the Saint of Death). If they didn't he abused them further, before sending them to "clients" who would abuse them for hours.
AGAIN - culture, greed and male dominance come heavily into this heinous situation, as well as drugs and poverty.
RE the various translations of the Holy Qu'ran - yes, I am familiar with the Dawood edition and it has been useful in many instances. The quotation you mentioned is indeed the "orthodox" version and there are undeniably believers who adhere to that version. My hope is that as we progress through the discussion of Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea, the posters here will gain new insight into how the efforts of one person (originally), enhanced by others who joined in contributing to his education projects (and continue to do so) can contribute to changing the world for the better, one step at a time. And if our children and youth take the time "to listen to the wind," they, too can learn the positives about other people quite different from themselves, while at the same time helping to reduce the abuse of both genders in all world regions.
Mahlia
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This is a wonderful discussion, giving us a chance to learn about cultures that I and most Americans, understand little. Although I know a number of Muslims, not with a degree of closeness that would allow me to explore such issues.
Growing up in Washington DC, I went to school with children of many different backgrounds. In graduate school, many of my fellow students were from Iran, and when I lived in Israel, I had friends from all over the world. I have always considered these experiences a blessing: each encounter with a different culture has increased and deepened my sense of my own. That doesn't mean that I agree with or adopt everything I hear. But it does make me realize how many different ways humans can view their world. And sometimes it even helps me find a better way.
Sociologists have a phrase:" a fish cannot see the water it swims in: it is only by getting out of the water and looking back, can it see that the water is there. We don't see our own culture: the many assumptions that we take for granted, until we meet people whose assumptions are different. Then we see ourselves more clearly: the good, the bad, and the indifferent.
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JOAN- how true it is that we learn so much about ourselves by interacting with people from other cultures and "stretching our minds." Indeed, it is not necessary to accept for oneself all that is learned from others, but it is always interesting and gives an overview to how others think of themselves and the world.
I can appreciate your early experiences in Washington DC. I lived and worked in Maryland and the metropolitan Washington area for more than 35 years and the diversity among my neighbors, colleagues, students, academic, USG and diplomatic colleagues and the communities in general was a marvelous learning experience. Although my son left the area in 1982, he still thinks of Montgomery County, MD as "home."
I, too, had opportunities to meet many Iranians during my service at the University of Maryland and during Summer teaching sessions at American and George Washington Universities. Several of the students I met at the University of Tehran in the mid-70's subsequently studied in Washington. And of course there has been a large Iranian population in Northern Virginia for many years. I was always intrigued that so many of the Iranian students, visiting faculty and a few Ministerial officials whom I met were from varied backgrounds: Persian, Circasian, Turkish and Middle Eastern Jews, as well as Western European and North American. Truly a blend of cultures and customs.
Indeed this discussion should be an interesting experience, once the core topic of Three Cups of Tea gets underway. I'm looking forward to it!
Mahlia
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| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/3cupstea/3cupsofteacvr.jpg) |
Three Cups of Tea
by
Greg Mortenson & David Oliver Relin
Three Cups of Tea is an inspirational story of one man's efforts to address poverty, educate girls, and overcome cultural divides. This book won the 2007 Kiriyama Prize for nonfiction revealing the enormous obstacles inherent in becoming such "family." ~ Bookmarks Magazine
______________
"The first time that you share tea with a Balti, you are a stranger" a villager tells our author. "The second time, you are an honored guest. The third time you become family." ~ Three Cups of Tea
|
Three Cups of Tea -- Homepage..... (http://www.threecupsoftea.com/)
Ignorance -- the Real Enemy..... (http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=22471)
Synopsis and Biography..... (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Three-Cups-of-Tea/Greg-Mortenson/e/9780143038252/?itm=1) | . | Three Cups of Tea is currently #1 on both
the Washington Post and the
NY Times Non-Fiction Best Seller lists. |
Discussion Leaders: Andy(ALF43) (WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM), JoanK (jkraft@socal.rr.com) & Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net)
Ladies: The problem of male dominance and female dependence appeared to be under some control in the US as we left the twentieth century behind. Women were attacking the glass ceiling in industry, they were appointed to the Supreme Court as Justices and to Presidential cabinets at Secretarial level, they were branching out into fields other than Education and Nursing, demanding equal pay for equal work, and advancing to middle management positions in business while supervising men. Women appeared to be gaining in relevance in our society on very many fronts. The number of freshman women at some universities were exceeding the number of freshman men..
You have come a long way, baby and a rough road lies ahead.
The next generation and those that follow must continue the social advance that women have achieved. Educate your girls and encourage them to support themselves, to be self sufficient, to be married as an equal partner, and to take pride in knowing how to make a living. Encourage them to talk with males in social conversation on an equal basis. The advance started in Saratoga, New York in the mid nineteenth century must continue.
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And so it shall!
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Malia: I just noticed your photo and was reminded of Shahrazad. Your costume is appropriate for one sharing in our tales of the Arabian Nights.
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The photo accompanying my posts is a reconfiguration done by the enormously talented late Lady Z (Zinia, who created the former Mountain Home site at SN). She worked with a Now Ruz (New Year) card I received from friends in Iran many years ago and replaced the facial features on the original card with a photo of me. Another version of her "creation" with photos and original costumes can be seen at the Mountain Home site under the heading Aunties and Uncles. Mine is the one named "Auntie Mahlia" (obviously), using the same costume, but in a different position. The card was written to Mahliheh (the full Persian name by which my Iranian friends know me, but shortened to Mahlia, which is easier for non-Farsi speakers to pronounce).
On the card, the artist has depicted a Persian woman overlooking her garden. Her clothes depict what would have been commonly worn by women of well-to-do families in earlier centuries. The delicacy of her skin indicates a truly Persian (not Arab) woman.
Mahlia
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I never knew all that, Mahlia; I've just enjoyed the exotic picture. I'm glad
Justin mentioned it and got the background. Would I be right in guessing that your Persian relatives/friends picked the name Mahliheh as being the
closest they could come to 'Molly'?
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MAHLIA: I wish we had known each other when we both lived in Montgomery County. I, too, briefly taught at Maryland and American Universities as a graduate student. Perhaps we passed each other on the quad.
In any case, in this book, we have a unique opportunity to meet people from remote villages that I, at least, would never be able to meet in real life. Ah, the power of books!!
And those of you who haven't yet, share this experience again in our "Read Around the World" discussion. We periodically chose a book from another part of the world to read. "Three Cups" does not technically qualify, since we choose books whose authors were born in the country invoved, but is in the spirit of the discussion.
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BABI - I'm not really sure how the nickname Mahlia came to be used instead of my birth name.
I recall many, many years ago when I registered for a Farsi language class at the Middle East Institute in Washington DC that the Instructor read my birth name and turned to me and called me Mahlia. When I traveled and taught in Iran in the mid-70's, I would be introduced by my birth name and invariably people - colleagues at university, students, new friends, etc. - would call me Khanom (Lady) Mahlia. Later, when I had Persian students in my own classes in the USA, they knew my birth name, but also called me by my nickname, as did colleagues in the diplomatic community with whom I worked. In Arabic, the double L in my birth name is awkward for some native speakers, but that is not a problem in Farsi.
Mahlia
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Sounds like destiny to me, Mahlia. 8)
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I have been reading all the posts with suppressed excitement, awaiting the start of discussion about "Three Cups of Tea". Bring it on !!!
I even followed the trail to Mahlia's "Aunty page", and for anyone who would like to see it, here it is : - http://www.geocities.com/flyingaunties/mhscraps5.html (http://www.geocities.com/flyingaunties/mhscraps5.html)
Brian.
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Brian, thank you for providing that link. I think that would have been a hard one to find. And if you want to see all the aunties and uncles, visit here. You'lll surely see more than one familiar face.
Aunties and Uncles (http://www.geocities.com/flyingaunties/auscraps.html)
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It was good to see those names and faces again. So many of those sweet people haven't made their way over to SeniorLearn, and it is truly a loss.
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Just knowing that we'll soon be discussing this book, I think, has put all of us on the alert for news about the area where it takes place. This evening the Lehrer newshour had a segment about polio and the countries where this dreadful disease is still a big problem. The focus was on Nigeria, where there has been an increase over the past few years. But polio is also endemic in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Much of the problem in Nigeria is due to ignorance and lack of education, and it is apparently becoming more under control in the other three countries, but it is still a big concern and very disconcerting to know that it could be wiped out and as yet, is not.
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I agree, Pedlin. The AP published an item today with dateline Kandahar, Afghanistan about the killing of a women's rights advocate. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the killing. Gunmen killed Sitara Achakzai, who spent years in Germany while the Taliban ruled her homeland. She had just returned home to continue the fight for women's equality.
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PEDLN - I, too, watched the same news program this evening. You may recall that it was also mentioned (and somewhat elaborated upon) that for many years the ignorance about polio prevention in Africa included the dismal information that the inoculations which were provided for the children was a form of "poison" which would make the children infertile and thus a "clear threat" by the West again Islam and its adherents. This was also a problem farther to the East in the Asian regions which were home to many Muslims. And since so many people in both regions were (and continue to be) illiterate, major portions of the populations believed their radical leaders who preyed upon their ignorance. The photo in tonight's program which featured the father, mother and small son - all who struggled with polio - was absolutely heart breaking!
After I retired from a major university in Maryland, I worked alongside many wonderful Africans at USAID's Africa Bureau in Washington DC. We often talked among ourselves about how best to help their countrymen and women. Almost always, the reply from my African colleagues was "help our children - NO, help us to help our children in years to come, especially with education!" Several of these wonderful colleagues talked with me personally, often mentioning their tribal affiliations and the illnesses (and paralysis) suffered by relatives. And almost always their voices changed to whispers as the conversations came to an end and they spoke seemingly to themselves: "I should have done more."
JUSTIN - yes, indeed, the news about the death of Sitara Achakzai was deeply sorrowful. She (along with many other Afghan women who have lived abroad for years in Europe, the USA and other world regions) have been adamant to return to their home countries to help other women. And although Khanom Sitara's personal efforts have been abruptly halted due to her heinous murder, there are numerous other committed Afghan women (well educated, some wealthy with strongly supportive husbands and other male relatives) who will most assuredly "walk in her footsteps and carry her beacon."
The death of Khanom Sitara is truly tragic, when one considers how her willingness to help others could have been such an enormous boost forward, but one must always - absolutely always! - remember that there are other courageous women who will follow. Afghanistan is an ancient land, it's people and customs do not change as rapidly as in the West, but the seeds of change have already been planted and nurtured (even as the outrageous evil acts continue). And it is that forward thinking that is the best memorial to Khanom Sitara.
Mahlia
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Mahlia: I am sure you are right. There must be more such women who will pick up the banner and carry it awhile. Bhutta was such a woman. But they must be rare by the very nature of the culture. The job calls for a single woman, probably educated, and with ample resources or a woman who has rapport with her husband on the issue.
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Indeed, women with this type of deep commitment are rare, but they are in the world. I recall another news program a few weeks ago where the interviewer spoke with several young girls (about the age of late middle school students or perhaps early high school). Although they wore head scarves, their faces were not covered, so they certainly must have been outside of their own home environment. At the end of the interview, one of the girls smiled broadly and said "when I grow up I AM GOING TO BE PRESIDENT OF MY COUNTRY!" Her eyes shone brightly and her smile became ever broader. With that kind of enthusiasm, I am heartened for these young girls in the future, although they most certainly will walk alongside sadness as they progress forward.
Mahlia
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You folks rock!
WOW, what a discussion you have provided for us here- each and everyone of you have added substantial information noteworthy of a good discussion (soon to follow.)
I am always so impressed how individual tenets are examined and analyzed without any rancor from our group. Whether it is the principles of the Holy Qu'ran or the Holy Bible we each hold our individual opinions and wish to respectfully share them with others as well as carefully consider a different view. As these discussions progress, many times several points become severe and intense but our posters opine and partake without any enmity or malice. I am proud to be a part of this.
Persian has hit the nail on the head with this quote.
My hope is that as we progress through the discussion of Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea, the posters here will gain new insight into how the efforts of one person (originally), enhanced by others who joined in contributing to his education projects (and continue to do so) can contribute to changing the world for the better, one step at a time. And if our children and youth take the time "to listen to the wind," they, too can learn the positives about other people quite different from themselves, while at the same time helping to reduce the abuse of both genders in all world regions.
You also mentioned about deep commitments of women around the world.
Since 2003, In Ghana, West Africa, two American women are helping their local counterparts build businesses, helping hundreds of women increase their incomes and find markets for their products.
These gals were peace corps volunteers in the '90's and they founded Women In Progress which provides assistance with everything from creating a business plan to managing the day-to-day operations.
These women also launched an online marketplace (Global Mama.org) to help their female entrepreneurs.
Human Rights take a great commitment, I agree but it takes moxie too. One needs courage to move ahead, courage to speak out against unspeakable atrocities. Eve Ensler was the author of the play The Vagina Monologues and founder of V-Day which works to stop violence against women in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC.)
Though the conflict in the DRC ended in 2002 the sexual violence has continued, with militia groups vying to control natural resources. Last fall, with help from V-Day and UNICEF thousands of women organized in protest, agreeing to speak at public meetings and tell their stories in front of govt. officials. A central part of Enslers campaign is to build a "safe house", inclusive with leadership classes, career skills and counseling. she believes that the women, themselves are part of the solution. This is surely is one step at a time as we each try to make sense of our times. It has been said that Humanity evolves through a series of unfolding stages."
The flow is from "me to 'us" to "all of us."
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ALF - it was interesting to read your mention of Eve Ensler, who also endorsed an excellent book about Afghan women entitled Women for Afghan Women, edited by Sunita Mehta, co-founder of the organization of the same name. One of the contributors to this book is the Afghan wife of an American former colleague of mine at USAID, who has worked tirelessly for years to improve the condition of women and girls in Afghanistan. She and I often discussed various aspects of the Afghan culture when I lived in the metropolitan Washington DC area.
I thought of her again recently as I recalled that in addition to the many women (Afghan and Western) who continue to work to improve conditions for their gender in Afghanistan, there are also Afghan women from Pashtun, Hazara and Tajik tribal backgrounds (and fairly well educated), who believe that they are NOT overly threatened by the majority male customs of how to treat women. Their sense is that the Western world simply does NOT understand that many Afghan women prefer to be "shielded" in their families and in public. I've frequently recalled some of these women, especially in light of the continued abuse and murder of their sisters who have spoken out publicly on behalf of their gender at great risk to themselves. Doing so prompted me to read some of the articles at the Women for Afghan Women site, which offer a range of information about the topic.
Mahlia
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Oh wow, here it is afternoon and I’m still in my pj’s. Last time that happened the doorbell rang. Blame it all on Three Cups of Tea and Google Earth. If you haven’t downloaded that fantastci program, do it now. (Now that I have DSL and no longer have to rely on dial-up, I’m having a ball with some of these huge files).
This morning’s activities all started with a Wall Street Journal article about the U.S. attempting to block radio stations and web sites used as recruitment tools by the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Being enamoured with maps I had to see where and Google Earth brings it all up in satellite views. Then there are wonderful photos to look at. Talk about rugged territory.
There’s a bit of a learning curve here, but it’s well worth it. I was going to provide a link, but thunderstorms are heading here and I’m shutting down. Just Google “Google earth” and you’ll find it.
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Rats! Not only did I learn that my library's copy of "Three Cups of Tea" was an audio (I'm deaf now!), but that they no longer have it. Apparently it was checked out and never returned.
I've placed a request for an interlibrary loan, so I should have a copy in my hands in plenty of time for the discussion. Meanwhile, I cool my irritation by reflecting that there may be a perfectly good explanation for the missing item.
It doesn't necessarily mean that someone is a thoughtless boob. >:(
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BABI: good for you! You're a better woman than I -- I'd have gone with the thoughtless boob.
For those of you who prefer audio books, Three Cups would make a good one. It reads along well.
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Now ladies, you both know that the Lord especially watches over people who tend to lose things -- like keys, books, hats, etc. So this poor person has checked out the book and now she/he can't remember where it is. We had a teacher like that -- always loosing her keys, of which as a dept. chair she had many. When the loudpseaker would announce, "a set of keys has been turned into the office," everyone would nod, mmmm mmmm. JW's done it again. But she needed two guardian angels when she lost a diamond ring. The ad in the paper read "Lost, a ring, lost in the vicinity of the city." (Now our city is small, but not THAT small.) It was eventually found in her golf bag.
And hopefully, Babi, Tea Cups will turn up as well.
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Here's the site where you can download Google Earth. It's really super, but as said before, you need to play with a little bit.
Here -- to download Google Earth (http://earth.google.com/)
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The first four paragraphs of this article from the Canadian Medical Association Journal give another view of the problem of how to help women in Afghanistan.
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/180/8/896?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT (http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/180/8/896?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT)
The entire article should be available - - - if I have done it right.
Brian
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BRIAN, this is a form of blindness that has always hindered efforts to improve health care, as well as many other plans of those who want to be helpful. We know that certain things will improve some peoples lot, and try to impose them without any awareness or consideration of centuries of local custom. Then we are frustrated that our good advice is largely ignored.
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Excellant article, Brian. I'm hoping this discussion will help us at least with our cultural blindness.
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This is an excellent time to undertake a discussion about an area of the world which is not widely understood culturally (and there are several distinct cultures in Afghanistan, of which posters may NOT be aware), nor in many cases acceptable to the West. The political and military news which is featured almost daily on Western TV gives only a glimpse of the country, its diverse regions and population. As is the case in any global region where the people and their customs are significantly different than the Western world, there is much to learn, appreciate for their age-old values and speak out about on the world stage whenever gender or child abuse is a strong component of the culture.
I'm confident that the posters in this discussion will bring not only their interest in Mortenson's books, his efforts to keep a promise to the Afghan villagers, a deeper understand of how/why he learned to "listen to the wind" and, perhaps, how some of us might follow in his footsteps in ways and with people that strike our own hearts. As I've learned personally - and I'm sure many others have, too - once we can learn and understand differences (NOT necessarily accept them for ourselves, but at least become aware of them) there are always ways to help if we wish to do so.
Mahlia
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There is a television personality who travels the world as a professional tourist. I am not sure about his name. However, he recently did a show about his travels in Iran. He introduced us to Iranians who were just folks. Not aggressive, culturally different, yes, but just people like us. The message was quite clear. Iranians are one thing, religious and governmental people are quite another. Shows like these can raise our consciouness of a decent but culturally different people who want to be friendly with others. Clearly, not all Iranians are as aggressive as the Prime Minister and the Ayatollah.
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I strongly suspect that all people who arrive at ranks like Prime Minister and Ayatollah, in any country, tend to have aggressive personalities. I suppose you must be to be an effective leader, but there is definitely a downside.
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Yet another view from Afghanistan : -
(from BBC today - April 26th, 2009)
Then there is Zarlasht Hafeez, a female Pashto poet who has published a collection called
"Waiting for Peace". Her lines read:
"The sorrow and grief, these black evenings,
Eyes full of tears and times full of sadness,
These burnt hearts, the killing of youths,
These unfulfilled expectations and unmet hopes of brides,
With a hatred for war, I call time and again,
I wait for peace for the grief-stricken Pashtuns"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8008754.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8008754.stm)
Brian.
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(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45563000/jpg/_45563470_womansday226x170.jpg)
The Afghan president says that he wants to honour women's rights,
(From the same source)
Brian.
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Wonderful! The world of poetry again shows us the hearts of people. At one level, people are so different, at another, the same. We need to find a way to respect both those aspects.
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As we speak, Pat is working on putting up some questions for our discussion.
We need not restrict ourseves to these but they are worthy of consideration.
Have any of you EVER met a man like Mortenson?
Thank you Brian for bringing that poem here. It is filled with gloom and anguish lessened only in a small degree with hope.
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I've been thinking about people I might have known who were like Mortenson, and I have not been successful in finding one exhibiting the sustained altruism we see in him. There have been some, who on the spur of the moment have responded to a call for help and others who have sought out people in need to offer help. Frontier doctors have been quite unselfish in traveling to remote places to help those in need for limited periods of time. Some lawyers offer pro bono services to folks in need. But for sustained altruism I have not encountered an an equal to Mortenson.
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CNN has an ongoing section where people can send them the names of people they consider heroes because of their contributions. They then pick a yearly hero. It is amazing how many people are giving of their time and money to projects they have created around the world.
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Sallie, I'm glad you mentioned the CNN Heroes. I have not been watching that, but you have certainly reminded us that there are many who share their time and their gifts.
Do I know anyone like Mortenson? No, not really. But I do know people who have tried to make service to others a way of life. And one who stands out in my mind is a local dentist here, Dr. Dan Cotner, now in his 80’s. He’s been a practicing dentist since 1949 and has participated in 19 dental volunteer trips to 11 countries, including Pakistan. The first was in 1968, when he loaded up his family and some borrowed dental equipment for the drive to Guatemala.He taught the indigenous people to perform tooth extractions, which he considers his most worthwhile project ever. He’s also a music man, has played trombone in the local municipal band for 66 years, and has been organist for his church for 39 years. He resembles Mortenson not in his deeds, but in the way he has spent his life sharing his talents and skills.
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Kidsal, although I'm certain my name will never make that list, I do believe that most of us do what little we can do daily for mankind.
Like Justin, I've thought and thought about that question and can not pinpoint any personal heroes in my past that are akin to Mortenson. Without a doubt, Doctors without borders might be a consideration.
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My former family doctor in Maryland for more than 25 years participated in many volunteer programs in Africa and the Middle East, whereby he spent his vacation time (little that he had) on Mission trips to small impoverished villages in those two world regions. His wife (a nurse) usually accompanied him and together they gathered donated equipment and supplies each year to respond to the needs of the villages they visited. When they had their tax fellow work with them each year, they ALWAYS made sure that they increased the amount of funds they allocated for donations for their Missions. I've seen pictures of some of the people they worked with and the photos (proudly posted on the office walls in Maryland) show children who progressed to teenage years and then to adulthood. Now many of them are married and have their own families.
Several years ago, when my husband and I relocated to Concord, NC (about 20 miles NE of Charlotte), I searched for an Opthamologist. I subsequently became the patient of a man (very similar to my former Maryland doctor) who has committed his time, talent and treasure for many years to enormously poor villages in Africa. The two colleagues who often accompanied him have in recent years switched their professional volunteer efforts to Mexico, so my local Opthamologist has taken on that global region in addition to his continued annual trips to Africa.
I have been extremely fortunate to know each man and learn first hand about their various experiences in some of the poorest regions in the world. I have heard the joy in their voices when they've spoken about their experiences. Or when each year they return to villages which they visited previously and former patients come to greet them. It has truly been a delight for me to learn some of their stories, see the photos and share in the delight of knowing how meaningful the visits have been not only to the villagers, but also to these two fine American men who have committed themselves to volunteer their professional talents.
Not all of us have the training, resources or opportunity to "go forth" like Greg Mortenson or the men mentioned above, but we surely have opportunities within our communities to draw on our own talents and experiences to help one another. As we read through Three Cups of Tea perhaps we will even be encouraged to take some extended footsteps and share our talents.
Mahlia
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You can see the last three years of CNN heroes, or vote for one in 2009 at:
http://www.cnn.com/heroes
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I hadn't thought of him before, but I too knew a doctor who spent a great deal of his time practicing in Africa. From what I could gather, he would stay there until he had to come back home and earn enough money to go back to
Africa. He was one of a family of doctors, so he had the support of his family while away, and always a practice he could join on his return.
I have not heard from my library yet on my request for an inter-library loan for the Mortenson book. I'm getting a bit worried; I usually get a pretty quick response on these inter-library loans.
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The new discussion of Three Cups of Tea is open.
Join Andrea, JoanK and Pedln.
Three Cups of Tea ~ Mortenson & Relin ~ May 1st ~ Book Club Online (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=465.0)