Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
To Consider 1. Putting Lincoln to one side, which of the men (the rivals) would you most like to meet and why? Which (if you were a woman) would you most likely marry and why? Start a business with? 2. What one quality do each of these men have in common, including Lincoln? Is that quality necessary for any person who enters politics? 3. Seward said he discovered “politics was the important and engrossing business of the country.” Does it still seem that way to you? How important is it to have a two-party system in our government? 4. Lincoln had a very strong desire to “engrave his name in history” and believed that” ideas of a person’s worth are tied to the way others perceive him.” Do you believe this? Is this contradictory to the belief in yourself and your own worth? Your religious faith? 5. Lincoln had a “strained” relationship with his father. Is there a possibility that Lincoln was inspired to become a better man, a more educated man, one with a future because of his father? 6. At an early age, Lincoln lost two of the women he most needed and loved - his mother and sister. What affect did this have on the boy, if any? 7. Can ambition ruin a marriage? Does a wife influence her husband? Is it necessary to be married to have a political future? 8. Were you surprised at the passion in the letters quoted in the book? |
I found out lately that at the same time that the US was argueing about slavery, Russia was going through the same thing to free the serfs (who were in effect slaves). They were able to do so peacably.
JoanK
Chase......His friendship with Stanton (who plays a big part in Civil War politics) is curious; they wrote very loving letters to each other, one of which from Stanton says "let me take you by the hand, throw my arm around you, say I love you."
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
March 8 - Chapters 4-7 March 15 -Chapters 8-11 March 22 - Chapters 12-15 | ......... | March 29 - Chapters 16-19 April 5 - Chapters 20-23 April 12 - Chapters 24 -26 |
To Consider in Chapters 4-7 1. What compromises did each of the four men make with his beliefs in order to further his political career? 2. Was the Civil War inevitable? Can you imagine any way the disagreement over slavery could have been resolved peacefully? 3. What were the strengths and weaknesses of each man as a potential presidential candidate? 4. President Obama is very conscious of the heritage of Lincoln. Do you see any parallels between the issues described in the book and those facing Obama now? 5. Some of the anti-slavery faction believed that if slavery were confined to its existing boundaries, economic and historic forces would eventually cause it to disappear in the South. Could this have happened? How? 6. The Northwest Ordinance of 1787; The Missouri Compromise (1820); The Wilmot Proviso; The Compromise of 1850; The Kansas-Nebraska Act; The Dred Scott Decision; The Lecompton Constitution. These were milestones in the tug-of-war between slavery and anti-slavery factions. What did each of them do? 7. What were the political attitudes of the candidates’ wives? Did they play any part in the campaign? 8. How was Lincoln’s campaign for the presidential nomination more clever than those of his rivals? 9. What effect did Lincoln’s Cooper Union speech have? |
?[/color] And i agree w/ Lincoln that we feel good about ourselves if others seem to approve of the things we say and do.
There was also the question of political control in the new territories. Were we going to have more slave-states, or more non-slave-states in our federal gov't? The idea of control became even bigger than the idea of slavery itself. I'm sure you all had discussions in your high school history classes about "states rights." You may have even been taught -especially if you were in a southern state - that the Civil War was all about states rights. So, the spin was that the war is about the states vs the federal gov't - not about that unspeakable issue of slavery.
(Are you reading about the presidential convention yet?)...............................jean
Every description you read of Lincoln describes him in coarse and ill-fitting clothes. Why didn't Mary, who spent hundreds of dollars on her own clothes, see to it that her husband, the senator, and later president, be better clothed?That's a good question. Some people have the knack of looking ill-dressed no matter what. Maybe Lincoln was one of them.
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
| March 15 -Chapters 8-11 March 22 - Chapters 12-15 | ......... | March 29 - Chapters 16-19 April 5 - Chapters 20-23 April 12 - Chapters 24 -26 |
To Consider in Chapters 8-11 1. Why Chicago for the Republican convention of 1860? 2. The Republicans gathered to nominate their candidate for the presidency of the United States. What actions did Lincoln take to win the nomination? Was it his leadership, publicity, friends, managers, committees, what plans were used? 3. Do you see indications that Obama used some of the same strategies that Lincoln used for the nomination? 4. Consider the reaction of the Southern politicians. Why did the Democratic Convention in Charleston, S. Carolina end in chaos? 5. What effect did the Democrats’ nomination of Douglas have upon the eventual election of the president, if any? 6. Newspapers played a major role in the opinion of the people and the election of politicians in the 18th and 19th centuries and beyond. Do newspapers, or the printed word, have any future today? 7. Seven states unanimously decided to secede from the union upon Lincoln’s election. Consider their grievances against the Union and consider why the North was taken by surprise!. 8.What was Lincoln’s own view of a slave? Had he had any personal experience with slavery? 9. Was there any possible way that the war could have been avoided in your opinion? Discussion Leaders: Ella (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net) |
On page 125, Lincoln makes reference to Haman. I find that remark very interesting. It attests to Lincoln’s voracious reading and his extensive knowledge of the Old Testament, for the name Haman is not that well known outside of Jewish history.
I will be curious to see if there are any comments ABOUT women from Lincoln in DKG's book. What was his attitude toward them.........................jean
There is a wonderful "what if..........." historical moment - if there was no Horace Greeley who held a grudge about Seward, there may have been no Pres Lincoln. It was frustrating for me that Goodwin doesn't tell us what "political slights" had ticked off Greeley............is there a footnote in the book that tells us? ......................
There is a wonderful "what if..........." historical moment - if there was no Horace Greeley who held a grudge about Seward, there may have been no Pres Lincoln. ..............jean
Lincoln was a product of his society as we all are. Douglas portrayed him as “Negro-loving agitator bent on debasing white society”, but Lincoln did not believe in equality between the races, but he believed that “there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence. He agreed with Douglas that the black man “ is not my equal in many respects- certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral and intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave o anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man.”
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
| March 15 -Chapters 8-11 March 22 - Chapters 12-15 | ......... | March 29 - Chapters 16-19 April 5 - Chapters 20-23 April 12 - Chapters 24 -26 |
To Consider in Chapters 12-15 1. Could Lincoln have avoided war by giving in to the South’s demands? 2. Do you think Lincoln was deliberately aiming for war by reinforcing Forts Sumter and Pickens? 3. How did Seward’s attitude toward Lincoln change? Why? 4. At the start of hostilities, Lincoln authorized the suspension of Habeas Corpus under limited conditions. Were you surprised? 5. What would have happened if Lee had accepted the Union Command? 6. What do you think of Mary’s redecorating and entertaining? 7. In this section we start to see the results of Lincoln’s policy of surrounding himself with rivals and men of different factions. How is it working out? 8. At the start of the war, Lincoln was plagued with a series of ineffective generals. Was this inevitable? 9. What happened in the battles so far? 10. So far, Lincoln is still insisting that the war is about preserving the Union, and not about slavery. What do you think of this? 11. Lincoln and Mary coped with their grief for Willie in very different ways. Was either preferable? Discussion Leaders: Ella (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net) JoanK's post One of the "Lincoln seminars on CSpan, it was pointed out that students of Lincoln and his days divide sharply on whether they are "pro-Mary or anti-Mary., with the pendulum swinging toward the pro-Mary. It's good to hear that point of view. Like any human being, she had good and bad qualities. We don't have to labor her as "good" or "bad". Perhaps if her diabetes had been treated, we wouldn't have these stories of wierd behavior. She was also a "shopoholic", which led to much criticism. Neither she nor the people around her understood this as an addiction. |
THE DEMOCRATS! OUR TWO-PARTY SYSTEM FAILED! THEIR CONVENTION IN SOUTH CAROLINA ENDED IN CHAOS.
WHY? What did the Dred Scott decision have to do with it? We should linger a bit here in our historic trip through history.
It occurred to me last night, watching Obama on the Leno show, what a tense period it was for both him and Lincoln, between election and inauguration. For Lincoln the country was coming apart. For Obama the American Dream was turning into a nightmare.
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
| March 15 -Chapters 8-11 March 22 - Chapters 12-15 | ......... | March 29 - Chapters 16-19 April 5 - Chapters 20-23 April 12 - Chapters 24 -26 |
To Consider in Chapters 16-20 1. Lincoln has been criticized for firing General McClellan. Was he right to do so? Would you have waited longer for results 2. Can a President have political friends while in office? Can he have friends in the community? 3. Congress, or the Republican majority in Congress, passed the Homestead Act, the Morrill Act, the Pacific Railroad Act, and the Legal Tender bill. Were all these bills helpful to the country? What did they accomplish? 4/ What were the circumstances that forced Lincoln to issue the Emancipation Proclamation? Why did he do it at this time and what did it accomplish? 5. How did Chase, Seward and Bates react to the proclamation? 6. Lincoln’s proposal that the freed slaves form a colony in another country was outrageous. How could a man with such acuity be so wrong in his view on African Americans? 7. Newspapers were paramount in communication in the 19th and 20th centuries. Will they survive in the 21st? 8. As Lincoln said “In great contests, each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be and one must be wrong. God can not be for and against the same thing at the same time.” What are your thoughts on the subject? 9. Seward said “What is the use of growing old. You learn something of men and things but never until too late to use it.” (pg.480) What are your thoughts? 10. Seward was the scapegoat for the defeat at Fredericksburg. Why? 11. What was the purpose of the Committee of Nine? 12. What is the meaning of the phrase “fire in the rear.” 13. Of all the men Lincoln associated with, whom would you most like to get to know or read his autobiography? 14. What did Chase, Seward and Bates contribute to the war effort? Discussion Leaders: Ella (egibbons28@columbus.rr.com) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net) Saved for heading Thanks, Joan |
Remember for awhile, the nation wasn't sure where Obama was going to reside in Washington before the inauguration; I heard that a Middle Eastern businessman had booked Blair House, did you hear that also?
The house doesn't look very stately on the ouside, does it?
Stanton snubbed Lincoln, but nevertheless so impressed him that it earned him Lincoln's confidence and eventually a place in Lincoln's administration.Jonathan, that's a good example of Lincoln's rare gift of not letting personal slights get in the way and not holding grudges. Stanton's firm did pay Lincoln, though. Lincoln sent the check back, saying he hadn't done anything to earn it, but when the firm sent it again, he cashed it.
Now, when it seems imminent, with his southern senate colleagues packing up and saying goodbye, Seward becomes conciliatory and influential with Lincoln to be likewise in his inaugural address. The first attempt by Seward to determine Lincoln's course of action. Seward loved his Union as much as Lincoln, but it wasn't Seward who was about to take the oath to preserve it. An oath is a pretty grim business.(I added emphasis here by putting your sentence in bold.)
He, of course, may not have given that much tho't at the time, thinking that his priority of saving the Union was more important than following the constitutionThe fact that he wasn't following the Constitution shows how seriously Lincoln took the threat. All through the book, we have seen Lincoln regarding the Constitution as not quite sacred, but almost so, the most important document our country has, only to be changed by lawful process and to be followed scrupulously.
I am constantly amazed at how two individuals can see an event in completely different perspectives. ............ jean
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
|
Then again, there were 4,000,000 slaves waiting for freedom and liberty. It seems like an irony to be overly concerned about the unlawful imprisonment of a few Marylanders for the duration.
But do either Lincoln or any president have friendships while in office. The kind of discussion where you are free to say anything on your mind with no fear of reprisal of any sort or being quoted and if your friend disagrees, you "have at it." I don't know.I don't know either. Lincoln seems to have approached it with Seward, though. One thing that surprised me was his friendship with Cameron. Lincoln only reluctantly made Cameron Secretary of War, and had to remove him because of his inefficiency and corruption. But Lincoln generously made some face-saving concessions to Cameron, and C became "one of the most intimate and devoted of Lincoln's personal friends" (p 413). Not what you'd expect, given Cameron's principles and Lincoln's rigid honesty.
From other sources, from my high school Amer hist course - my teacher was a huge CivWar buff, so we spent most of the yr on the CW - to my watching Ken Burns series on the CW, i had the impression that McClellan's procrastination was much grtr than the impression DKG gives it in this book.
I take that quote back.....................i hadn't read about the Pennisula Campaign when i wrote that and i had forgotten that it was the PC that agenerated the most procrastination. For some reason i had remembered it to have been the campaign in northern Va.
Jonathan and Pat - i think the First Lady has often had the role of the "friend" that presidents could be open with. Apparently Mamie Eisenhower was not the least bit interested in anything political - but the Roosevelt FL's and everyone since Lady Bird, except maybe Pat Nixon, seems to have been very interested and the sounding board for the President. They were sometimes the most honest about their responses also. Mary L seems to have had a varied experience in that role. Perhaps in their young married life and at the beginning of their WHouse life when she entertained politicains and seemed to enjoy it. But once her grieve overwhelmed her, i get the sense that she was not much interested in anything. He doesn't seem to have much trouble being open w/ a couple of these guys.
Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin |
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/teamofrivals/teamcvr.jpg) | "More books about Abraham Lincoln line the shelves of libraries than about any other American. Can there be anything new to say about our 16th president? Surprisingly, the answer is yes. - ..... Doris Kearns Goodwin has written an elegant, incisive study of Lincoln......." - New York Times
|
|