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Talking Heads
"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/talkingheads.jpg)
A two week forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.
Our Third Selection is: Do Not Go Gentle: The Feisty Man's Guide to Aging Anything But Gracefully (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Last-Page-Do-Not-Go-Gentle.html) by Roy Rowan.
Smithsonian Magazine April 2009:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Last-Page-Do-Not-Go-Gentle.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/rockingchairpool.jpg)
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you was?"--Satchel Paige
Discussion Leader: Ginny (gvinesc@gmail.com)
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Welcome to our newest op ed discussion, Talking Heads #3, Do Not Go Gentle. This riff on Dylan Thomas appears in this month's Smithsonian Magazine, and is subtitled The Feisty Man's Guide to Aging Anything But Gracefully.
It's a short one page article half taken up with a photo. I wonder what your take on him is? No fool like an old fool? The old goat? Do you applaud him or think he needs to grow up? Or how do you see him, and it?
And what about the issues he raises?
What does the statement "when I am an old woman I shall wear purple"
mean?
Do you know the next lines to the poem which start Do Not Go Gentle by Dylan Thomas? Do you agree with them?
When do the doors start closing in life? What age?
And finally in the words of Satchel Paige: "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you was?"
I have thought about that question continually since I first read it two weeks ago. I am still thinking about it, what would you say? What are some of the external things which begin to make us "old," other than our own aging?
In short what are YOUR opinions on this article and the points it raises?
The floor is now open for your thoughts.
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Ginny what an appropriate subject for all of us hereon Senior Learn I always loved Ralph Waldo Emerson's take of age. 'The age of a woman doesn't mean a thing because the best tunes are played on the oldest of fiddles." (paraphrased, xcse me Mr RWE.)
Bill always says not to complain of getting old because it beats the he** out of the alternative. :o
The subject of age seems very appropriate for me today as I just received a call from my oldest friend. We grew up together, back to back (fences)and her mom had a stroke this morning. She is 93 and had been well right up until today.
When the good Lord says "come fourth, he does not mean 5th."
You had better be ready to meet your maker.
When Joanie and I were in 5th grade , her mom became pregnant with her last child, who is now 50'ish. We were embarrased that she was SOOOO old and pregnant.
Age is truly in the eye of the beholder.
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Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Dylan Thomas Page
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What does the statement "when I am an old woman I shall wear purple" mean?
I have loved this poem since I first heard it in the late 1980s. Our daughters made me an embroidered wall hanging with the first lines of the poem - and it still hangs on the wall in our house. To me, it means that when a woman is "old", she no longer had to be bound by unnecessary strictures and customs. I've always been pretty much a nonconformist, so this suited me to a "T". It also reminded me very much of my mother.
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I love the purple poem and the Do not go gentle as well. I have always sort of walked and danced to my own drummer, but find as I get older, I also get a little further from my age groups. I would guess that reading is one of the reasons. Not sure I see his point. If you offer me a seat on a bus or train, I will take it in a minute.. But I will also give up my seat to a pregnant lady or someone with a baby or even someone who simply looks way too tired. Courtesy strikes me as that answer.
Women when their children grow up and out change in many ways. We ( or at least our generation of women) were carefully trained to be nurturers. Our mothers rarely worked. I did not work when my children were young. Now my daughter in law would not consider not working. Women change.. and its good. So I am not going gentle, but exercising, complaining and doing it my way. I marvel at my husband. His hobby for the past 10 years is that when he feels strongly about something.. He writes a letter to the editor or an email to the politician. Our sons were not amused. They are both in state and county positions, but he told them, they would just have to cope. Now they seem to be proud and our younger one has also taken up writing to the editor.. Of course he is conservative and we are liberal, so it gets sort of funny.. But good for us all.
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Steph, love your attitude. And we DO have an attitude. I loved reading about your husband and his letter writing. Just before I came to SeniorLearn this morning, I sent a letter to the editor of our paper. Our paper has a column in the Sunday paper called "Rants". The letters must be 25 words or less, and they are published unsigned (although you have to give them your name, address, etc. when you send it in). I also send in longer signed letters fairly frequently. Been doing it forever.
This is a long and on-going tradition in our family. Our youngest grandchild (Sarah is 20, finishing her sophomore year in college) is a political science major, going into law, and wants to write legislation. She's just been elected to the college Senate for her Junior class. And her role models are her 73-year-old grandmother (me ;D) and her 89-year-old great-great aunt (my mother's youngest sister). Not only that, but we are "honored" by symbols in her latest (2nd and I hope last) tattoo. :D I'm extremely proud and humbled by her feelings for me. And delighted that the generations of rabble-rousing female keep on coming.
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I'm not the ranting or 'raging' type ...though I have written letters to the editor and to politicians. Not to mention people who tried to 'rip me off'!
We naturally resent some of the restrictions our body places on us as we grow older, but complaining about it isn't going to help. Better to do what I can to make myself as healthy and comfortable as possible, and accept the inevitable as gracefully as possible. Perhaps my confidence that this
life is not all there is gives me a different viewpoint from Dylan Thomas'. (A great poem, nevertheless.)
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Mark
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The Dylan Thomas poem is an old and treasured favorite of mine. I am sometimes startled to discover that someone that I assumed was older than I am, turns out to be younger. I am now 71.. But there is a certain type of person who I suspect was born old..has old attitudes and always sort of fades. I have opinions. Right.. wrong... who knows. But they are mine and I will carry them to the end. I also feel that fighting is the way to stay alive. We recently lost an old friend. He was 80, was diagnosed with lung cancer, refused all treatment.... died in 45 days.. The doctor said, he could have lived at least another year if he had just done something.
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Perhaps it was the form of treatment that decided your friend, STEPH. Cancer treatments can leave one feeling so constantly sick and weak. I don't think I would care for another year of life if it was going to be spent being miserable.
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MaryZ, you’re the only person I know to be honored by a tatoo. That’s wonderful. ::)
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this whole business of aging, but number one is that until they’re definitely in harm’s way, folks should be able to make their own decisions and live their lives without comment or criticism from others. If someone wants to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by, so be it. (Our president has said he likes sitting a a café with a glass of wine, watching people walk by.) Just let me have a book or Sudoku or a crossword puzzle at the same time.
I had a friend in her nineties who lived alone in her house. She began to get forgetful, lost her driving privileges, got confused, but wanted to stay in her house. Her niece became her guardian and she had home health during the day. Someone said, ‘she could burn the house down.’ My answer, “so?” Eventually she fell and broke her hip and was in a nursing home until she got pneumonia and had to go to the hospital. She said she wasn’t going back to the nursing home, and she didn’t. She died in the hospital.
Another friend just moved away to live in a retirement condo near her daughter. She stopped by recently and said she felt she’d made the right decision. But it was her decision. Every time I visit someone in the retirement center here, which is quite lovely although the apartments are small, I think, ”I’m so glad I don’t live here.” Some years ago I was travelling with some folks who liver there. Everyone knows who uses rubber sheets and who doesn’t. That lack of privacy is a bit much for me.
I recently saw two of my daughters and we were skirting about the issue of aging, medicare, etc. (They are both public health professionals). And I asked Judy, “If I begin repeating myself a lot, you would tell me, wouldn’t you?” And her answer, “Tell you you’re losing it? No way.!”
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The line in the Dylan poem " When I am an old woman I will wear purple" brought to mind something. In the ancient world purple was only worn by royalty since the mollusk from which it was obtained was difficult to come by. Wearing purple for the elderly can refer to their wisdom. In ancient societies ( and I assume in less technologically societies than ours) the elderly are still venerated. They have in a sense become "royal". The elderly in our society are not venerated for many reasons. We are an overmedicated society and whatever wisdom an elderly person can impart is eradicated either by side effects of medication or Alzheimer's. I often wonder if Alzheimer's is not caused by all the side effects of the medications that the elderly consume. In simpler times such things did not exist and the elderly were considered founts of wisdom and knowledge and deservingly wore "purple."
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This subject is one that we all live with. When I forget something, I used to get angry at myself but it happens too often now. My MD insists that I don't have the big A but I can't help wondering. My horizons have shrunk some since I rarely set long range goals but my interest is high in current affairs. I sent an email to The White House! Not rage but not complacence either. Due to heredity I have not wrinkled much and my arthritis has not disfigured my hands as it has my sister's so I don't look old. Stimulating the mind, taking up new interests, travel, enjoying the arts, these have been my life-long pattern not a gradual sinking into apathy. And purple, how apt, it says "Look at me!" Not for me the modest black dress but purple, coral, emerald flowers, lively prints, that's how to dress and who gives a **** if it is not what one sees in Vogue.
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Lucky, the poem by Jenny Josephs is called Warning, and part of it goes like this.
WARNING
When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn't go and doesn't suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we've no money for butter.
I shall sit down on the pavement when I'm tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick the flowers in other people's gardens . . .
The ending of the poem pleases its readers when the woman says . . .
But maybe I ought to practice a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.
The point is not about wearing regal purple, but of wearing "purple with a red hat that doesn't go". It's about breaking the old taboo of never wearing purple and red together - about not having to conform to arbitrary rules as we age.
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Enjoying the comments. Want to read more. So...marking my place.
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The poem of course is what started the red hat societies. I dont belong.. Simply not a good joiner, but they do seem to have fun and I have a number of friends who do belong.
I like the attitude of the poem. Always have.
Actually with our friend with lung cancer, the hospice tried to make him understand that what would be done would simply be to ease his breathing and make him more comfortable, But he wasnt having any.. Sad..
We had a dear dear friend who had pulmonary problems, serious ones caused by Lupus.. No matter how sick she was or how housebound with the oxygen, she planned, designed, had built and decorated a new house and lived triumphantly in it for just over a year with a caretaker and her cats.. When you came to visit, you were allowed to tell her of everything outside and never mention the wheel chair, the oxygen or the dying.. I want to be as brave as she was.
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Hi Maryz
I feel so foolish. For some reason I confused that line about wearing purple with the Dylan poem published above. I am indeed familiar with the poem about wearing purple and I think it is wonderful. That poem has given rise to many women's groups wearing purple and wearing red hats. I think they call themselves the Red Hat Society. I often see groups of them in local restaurants and other gathering places. In fact my sister bought me a purple outfit and my daughter bought me a red hat. I have yet to wear them.
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I painted a self-portrait in 1990 as part of my senior project (I was a late-bloomer and graduated from college that spring). I had recently heard that poem and, although I didn't actually have the garments, I painted myself with a purple shirt and a red hat. I still love the piece and it hangs in our living room. ::)
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Way to go, late-bloomer. :-* Congratulations. I'd love to see the picture, and I'll bet others would too. That must be a wonderful conversation starter for people who come to your house for the first time. Why don't you take a picture of it and post it here?
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I think Alzheimer's existed in 'simpler times', LUCKY. Only then they just called it senility.
Your idea about 'royal purple' for the elderly is nice. I wonder, tho', if it isn't
simply that the lady always liked purple but didn't think it appropriate for some reason. But when she is old, she will wear it simply becuase she likes it. If you can't do what pleases you in the later years of your life, when can you?
Oh, yeah! Just read MARYZ's post. That's what I'm talking about!
JACKIE, I don't get mad when my brain gets laggard. I just shake my head in
resignation....and then slap myself on the side of the head! ;)
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pedln, I'll get a photo of it, and make it my avatar.
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What an interesting discussion.
I love the poetry.
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I love bothof those poems but don't take them to heart. I'm adjusting my life style because at 81 I have too, but I'm still me. My new Kindle helps a lot with mobility and books as well as storage. I have five book cases full of books so it is nice that the kindle doesn't make more for me to store. I've just read seven in the three weeks that I have it. . .birthday gift from my daughter.
The young me liked to read too. Hated being interrupted or having to turn the lights out and go to bed while reading. Did the flashlight under the covers for a while, but it wasn't comfortable.
so my various physical problems make me cut down on activities, but that can happen to young people too. I had a friend whose arthritis started when she was sixteen and then there are accidents and illneses. Good health is not guaranteed, but a continuing interest in the ways of the world can be.
I haven't painted for six months and am considering letting it go since I don't see things the way I used too. And anyway as of now, I'd rather :-* read.
claire
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Hmm, I would think you might want to paint the difference in how you see things now. I am not an artist,, but a craftsman. The nice thing about my baskets and crewel work is I can design, but dont have to worry if it looks like the article, I had in mind.
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This is so interesting, thank you all for these thoughts and the two poems. My mother would NOT allow me to wear purple as a child. I always wondered what it was about it which was special. :)
What do you think of his wanting the young woman not to offer a seat (since that makes him "old,") but wanting to notice him as a handsome interesting man?
What is he actually asking? Is it something we all ask as litle by little we're overlooked or possibly dismissed by society as a whole as we age? Is it an image thing? Appearances? the new SuperGrandma and Grandpa?
Is it possible for us to look like Loretta Youngs or Clark Gables up into our 80s and 90s? Maybe we should ask is it desirable? We, due to the media's influence, are in danger of becoming an appearance oriented society, what happens to those of us who are not going under the knife to look younger or try to?
Did you know that 43 percent of all 6-8 year old girls in the US wear lipstick or lip gloss? Where does that leave the old grannies and grampas who LOOK their age? Is this piece ABOUT looking your age, or what is it about?
And finally "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you was?"
I keep thinking about that one. How old do you feel?
Super discussion!
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Steph, I don't paint realistically (nor does Winsum/Claire). I may use something "real" as a starting point, but my paintings now are mostly abstract or non-objective. So I rarely have anything in mind when I start out. I love it, though, when the viewer sees something from his/her own mind and experience.
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I think it is sad, GINNY, when vanity causes people to demand repeated surgeries until there is so little available tissue left, they wind up looking like stiff mummies. What an ironic end to the demand for beauty.
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I always take the seat I am offered in public transport because I want to encourage young people who are considerate and kind. On the other hand my brother who is a year older never takes the seat he is offered, claiming he is getting off soon. At 83 he still wants to look young enough stay standing.
I think we attach too much importance trying to look younger by artificial means. To stay healthy and fit enough to walk a mile or more a day is all that’s needed. 65 is much too young to retire and forced retirement will make a person age faster. Work is what keeps the mind and the body healthy I think.
So many of my contemporaries have given up and let themselves disintegrate during what they facetiously call their "golden years." And for some reason they seem to take pride in enumerating their ailments in what some wag called "organ recitals."
So many people just retired develop illnesses. I recommend my kids never to retire and work until the end. Like Picasso and Casals
It's not as if our bodies bear visible proof of our years like a tree's cambial rings or a male elk's antlers. And I'm not convinced that I really am all that old.
Hahaha. Young people would contest that if he asked them. To a 20 something 40 and over is old, so what does it matter?
We, due to the media's influence, are in danger of becoming an appearance oriented society
I think that has happened already Ginny.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
But anger and rage ages you. Although sometimes I indulge in rightful anger, it lets the steam out.
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Well, I took a picture of my painting, and tried to put it in my profile. But all I succeeded in doing was deleting the photo that I had there. I'm still working on it though. ???
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I must confess that contrary to Eloise, we have retired fairly early and are enjoying a whole new second life.. We take classes, go to a folk school at least once a year and learn new skills. We have volunteered in all sorts of situations to learn new things. We bought an rv and are exploring all of the US year after year.. I laugh since I really believe we are busier in retirement than we were when we worked.
Our sons marvel and both insist that they are making lists as they grow older in the things they want to do and be when they retire.
Retirement for us meant a new type of life. No more 9-5....
I do believe that the expectations of how you look as you age are off putting. My husband had to have extensive surgery on one side of his face and ear due to a mixture of skin cancers. He had maybe half an ear and a sunken place in front where the parotid gland was.. He was very self conscious at first, but now he understands that most people in real life simply dont care.. or even notice.. It gave him new spirit and he tries hard to help people who are undergoing the same types of surgeries.
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The kind of retirement I meant was one from a career that can be very draining for most people Steph. I don't think you are retired at all by what you have undertaken to do with your time. That's what I have done, I retired from a boring and necessary job at 62 and took on more meaningful activities plus going back to studies that I had always wanted to do.
Now though all the learning I get and want comes from Seniors & Friends previously from SeniorNet. I travel every year and I live above my youngest daughter's family which keeps me very busy. So far my life is very full and rewarding on all fronts and I am grateful for that.
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Steph: Your husband's medical woes must have been very stressful. One advantage of old age is that it is better to live long than not. Another is knowing that everyone has their own scars, some visible some not not. To me that is the point of "Purple", giving up on the shallow rules which may have limited our choices in past years. Another way of saying it is: Life is short, eat dessert first.
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I envy you your lifestyle, STEPH, but I'm very glad you and Eloise are able to enjoy that kind of freedom. I wholly understand about people not taking notice
of disfigurements. I well remember the first time I met a young youth Pastor who had burn scar covering haf his face. I was shocked and startledon that first view, but I quickly adjusted. In no time at all, I didn't even notice the scarring, but only what an exceptionally fine young man he was.
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I agree that the first time you meet someone who has an obvious disfigurement, you remark, but as you get to know them it disappears. We raced sailboats for many years. Both of our sons did as well. When they were teens, we met another racer who had only one arm.. Norm raced a singlehanded boat. drove his rv and generally lived like everyone else.. I remember going to a regatta and there was someone who had not raced before. They saw Norm and then mentioned to our sons and some others that it seemed dangerous to them, that he raced with one arm.. They looked at the new people with amazement.. They had honestly never considered the one arm. They just knew he was good at racing and was their friend.
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Being disabled always seemed to me to be worse than death. Until I worked with disabled adults where they were being taught independent living. There were whole bodied by paralyzed adults, one from a skydiving accident another from a football injury, some were blind, some were suffering from MS, some had congenital deficiencies, i saw first hand that life is precious and that whatever burdens we have, we all have burdens. Some visible, some not.
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My husband once expressed a similar sentiment, JACKIE. We were walking downtown and passed a man with no legs, pushing himself along on a wooden
platform on wheels. Bill said, "I'd rather die than live like that."
I turned on him and got in his face. Told him he was as much as saying that
his entire life was only worth as much as his legs. He was taken aback, but he I could see he understood what I was saying. He changed his thinking in that respect.
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As I age, my health declines. I have mutiple, chronic health problems. Mentally, I feel as if I am in my early 40s. Physically I range from my actual age of almost 75, to about 90. It all depends upon my health status. Even on my oldest days, though, I have no desire to rage. I hope to go gently into whatever comes next.
I love the purple woman! For many years I was intent upon conforming. What a waste of time and energy. Today, I enjoy staying in my pajamas most days. Winter brings out my sweatsuits. Summer, it's shorts. In my earlier years I would not wear shorts. Today, I am about 40 lbs. overweight. But, as Popeye always said: "I yam, who I yam". Comfort dictates what I wear.
One of my health situations involves a lot of back pain. I have a ruptured disc at L5, which impinges my Sciatic nerve. I also was diagnosed with Lumbar Stenosis. Pain runs from my buttocks, down to my ankles. I have a lot of pain when walking. I have learned to pace myself. I use a cane., and do a little at a time. Fortunately, I love to read, watch movies, and use my computer. Even if I never leave home, except to see the dr., the world is still open to me. Most of the time, I focus on what is good about my life, not what is missing.
I have really enjoyed all of your comments on this topic. I am so happy to have these discussions.
Sheila
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Been one of those weekends. My husband is a total Tiger fan, so he was engrossed in the match. I dont like golf not to play or watch.. I spent it reading a new Wally Lamb.. Too long a book, but it is excellent..
I keep fighting the good fight on aging. I got a Wi for Christmas and then the Wi fit attachments. I go to the gym three days a week, do the Wi fit three days and walk each and every day for 30-40 minutes. Actually the walking is as much for myhead as body. I found many years ago that a good walk before dawn for me is like a drug. I come home refreshed, skin rosy, breathing much better. I guess I am some form of a walking addict. At least a few days a week, I also listen to audio tape books and some days the radio. Depends on my mood..
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SHEILA, I was considerably more than 40 pounds overweight, and couldn't
seem to budge it. I remember praying, 'Lord, help me get this off! Whatever
it takes!' Be careful what you pray for! Due to health problems, If have
lost so much weight my bones are prominent, my skin loose, and people go
out of their way to assist me when I am out and about.
Okay, Lord, I did ask for it! :-\
No wonder you look so great in that photo, STEPH. More power to you.
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Talking Heads
"It occurred to me that nothing is more interesting than opinion when opinion is interesting..."
Herbert Bayard Swope, creator of the Op-Ed page.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/talkingheads.jpg)
A two week forum for opinions on anything in print: magazines, newspaper articles, online: bring your ideas and let's discuss.
Our Third Selection is: Do Not Go Gentle: The Feisty Man's Guide to Aging Anything But Gracefully (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Last-Page-Do-Not-Go-Gentle.html) by Roy Rowan.
Smithsonian Magazine April 2009:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Last-Page-Do-Not-Go-Gentle.html
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/graphics/rockingchairpool.jpg)
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you was?"--Satchel Paige
Discussion Leader: Ginny (gvinesc@gmail.com)
The story brought to mind the first time someone opened a door for me. It was not a gentleman but a young lady and obviously she did it because of my age. It happens frequently now. I am deferred to because of age, it is understandable. I look all of 80 years of age; one cannot disguise age in my opinion.
I do agree with the author of the story that "as for enjoying life........ it's a matter of doing the things I've always done. More slowly, for sure, but more thoughtfully too, often mixing reminiscences with the job at hand."
Yes, the reminiscences come very frequently and, at first, I rejected them. Now I wait for them and live in them for a little while.
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Thank you Babi. Right now I admit to being very puzzled and upset. My doctors office called late yesterday afternoon and said they had gotten a report from my mammogram from last week and the hospital will be calling me for more pictures of the right boob.. They were very matter of fact,but I confess that I am upset.. These were digital mammos.. Which is supposed to mean they know they got good pictures. So.. is something wrong.. Why did the hospital not call me.. I sit puzzled. Should I call the hospital?? The doctors office said if the hospital had not gotten back to me by Friday to call them, but should I wait.. I do not like this particular problem at all.
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Steph, of course you're concerned. That's too long to wait, IMHO - and I've been there. Go ahead and call the hospital and set up your appointment now. Plus call your doctor. It may be nothing - just a glitch on the x-ray - it does happen. But you need to know. E-mail me, if you like. I'd also suggest checking in to the Bosom Buddies discussion on Seniors & Friends (in the Medical Corner).
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STEPH, it is standard protocol for a hospital or lab to notify the doctors of results, and allow the doctor to contact and confer with the patient. It may be something, or it may simply be a shadow they're not sure about. In any case,
MARYZ is right; the sooner you clear it up the better. Otherwise you will just worry and fret.
Any time I have a problem, I can't stand being uncertain. I want to know what I'm dealing with ASAP. Then I can deal with it. I had a breast tumor, a small one. Taken care of, no further problems.
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Steph- I know exactly how you feel and how panicked this can make you. CALL and keep us posted!!!
Ella I look all of 80 years of age; one cannot disguise age in my opinion.
That is SO untrue. You do not look even close to 80.
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Steph: I hope that you ahve called by now. Like Babi, I can deal with things when I know what's what. We're with you, girl!
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Steph -- call, and know that we're all with you.
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You are all so right. I just got scared. My mother died of cancer and it tends to panic me. I called and tomorrow at 9:30 will have the return for more views. I have never had a recall, but many years ago, I found a lump and went totally nuts. My Mother was dying of cancer, my aunt had just died of cancer and I find a lump.. Not a pretty picture. I finally went into the doctors. He took one look and feel and said.." No.. no, it is a cyst.. if they hurt and swell, they are not cancer" I just collapsed in the office. He was such a very very kind man. He sat and listened to me and calmed me down.. My husband has been so ill off and on for the past year and I just thought maybe we were in the other end, but possibly not. Darn.. But all of you have helped me face what I need to know.
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Oh, ALF, you're sweet! But I know that the best way to tell a woman's age is when she's not around. hahaaaaa
A few advantages to aging: (oh, yeah?)
You'll never have to do it again.
All the things you couldn't have when you were young you no longer want.
You get a wonderful new friend whom you see a lot of - the druggist.
Every time you grow a year older so do all your friends.
The younger generation keeps getting younger.
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Responding to Satchel Page's remark I would reply that if I didn't know how old I was I would say I was 32, unless there was a mirror around and I happened to catch a glimpse.
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Steph, I sympathize with you. I have a long history of flunking mammograms, and it used to freak me out, since I have a family history of vulnerability. BUT: A: the best thing you can do for yourself is to settle the question as soon as possible, and B: most of these dubious results are just glitches, and turn out to be nothing. Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with you, and I hope all will be well.
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Off at 9:30 for the more views. They told me I would be there for up to two hours, since they must be read by the expert before I can leave. Amazing how hospitals, doctors and test stuff is always for the convenience of the doctors isnt it.
I love my WII.. When I do the daily body test, it gives you an actual age each day by how you did on the days tests.. Some days I am 25. I am always younger than my actual age.. NOw to stay away from mirrors the rest of the day.. Hmm.
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Good morning! I have just discovered this board and read all the messages AND THOROUGHLY enjoyed it!
Re: the mammograms------I had breast CA in 1999, had a lumpectomy followed by
radiation. When the mammo was taken that showed the suspicious area, I was notified
by the hospital (after about a week), NOT the doctor that had referred me for the mammo.
Now, when I get my yearly mammo, I demand that they are read by the radiologist before
I leave so that I will have results immediately. Last year my yearly mammogram showed
calcifications, (which "threw me into a tizzy") and the radiologist suggested a re-mammo
in 6 months, which I did, and the result was satisfactory.
Steph: You mention CA (your husband) in the parotid gland area----I had CA -also in 1999-
of the parotid gland, so I can sympathize with your husband on that. However, I had no
significant scarring.
I love this board!!!!! :-*
Joy
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Back home safe and sound. Due to a lovely policy in the hospital. They did the return views ( whew, the extra views hurt really bad), then an ultra sound. Then a wonderful woman came in. The Radiologist. She said it was teeny cysts,, nothing to concern me and released me for a year. Oh wow.. such a fright and all is well.
Yes, my husband had surgery for the parotid tumor. He has all of his facial nerves intact. The radiation however did in the salivary glands on one side and now the others have stopped working as well. Very hard to eat.. Everything is too dry to swallow. He works hard at it, but it does not get easier.
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WONDERFUL NEWS!!! Steph! I know you're so relieved.
As Joy knows, my cousin was treated at MDAnderson last year for a salivary gland tumor. He underwent chemo and radiation, which shrank the tumor to nothing, so no major surgery was necessary. In October, he was pronounced tumor-free and to come back only in six months, etc. He didn't lose his hair, but did lose a lot of weight - which he really needed to lose. He just sent around a recent photo, and he looks GREAT! Good things do happen sometime.
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The younger generation keeps getting younger.
Isn't that the truth. I have become aware that the little persons I think of as mere babies are getting older all the time! :'(
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A perfect day for me to stop by I have enjoyed reading everyones posts GREAT ONES and all I agree with ..yesterday my dear friend and companion for 9 years memorial service was held and today his daughter and husband left for home and my oldest daughter and her husband did likewise My other children who live locally have always been there for me so I am blessed many times over.. The poem do not go gently was used on his card at the funeral home...it was my choice and his daughter loved it because we both agreed he was a Fighting Irish man and had fought the good fight. the pain of his death and suffering was not what hurt as much as the failure of a local hospital who sent him home a day before we were able to admit him to a VA hospital for help >>>there was no help but medicine to relieve his pain and allow him finally take his last sleep...My husband died in 1994 and God and he sent two special men who had lost their spouses to give me companionship and the the one who just died GOD sent because had he not come here he would have died nine years ago from problems that were ignored in his home state .. Bypass surgery and chemo for lymphoma and a determination to survive gave him the the extra years and his family became mine and joined my family in helping him.. they had him for the extra years and those years gave me a purpose . there were times when I wept when I was cooking some special meal for him ..not because I had to to cook for him but because I had someone to cook for... My children are asking once again what I will do now at 81 ...I told the what I have always done .. Live until I die. Seniornet saved me when my husband died, and poetry did the same...it has been the one constant support ..encouraged me to classes at the local University . And while I no longer hear the poetry my groups reads they hear mine and make me welcome when we read at Barnes and Nobles and at a local coffee shop each month < my house looks like a disaster but I havent cared about that For me housekeeping is a chore.. Living for is being here , writing and reading poetry, writing stories , and essays, reading every book I can , pampering the birds in my backyard, taking care of two large Golden Retriviers , making my own clothes and clothes for my oldest daughter who became legally blind just before her 40th birthday .she will be 58 this septembe and she has never stop living...her circle of friends take her places when her husband cant. She had been president of the Woman;s Group . serves on the state board for the handicapped and has web site for the county where she lives.. and does so much you wonder how She gives me credit for giving her the ability to keep living , accepting what life has offered and has the same determintion that she was going to LIVE until she dies.. the other poem I am fond of is Death be not proud for we believe as the poet did ...when we leave here we will go where death does not exist....for years I lied about my age and said I was 22.. and frankly that is the age I feel I do not recognize the face in the mirror and whenever I go somewhere and look into a mirror I wonder who is that looking back at me I tell people I have magic mirrors in my home In fact there have been times when someone showed me picture of me taken at some event and I dont recognize myself I know that cant be me .. Perhaps I am delusional but "You can't help getting older, but you don't have to get old" this line has always been mine......I thought it original to me but found out George Burns said it ...so OKAY GEORGE I AGREE>> thank you for having this discussion .. it is the beginning of what I need ..courage to go on ., and I feel GOD Led me here when turned on my computer to relax a bit before I have to start working on getting on with my life BUT I FEEL BLESSED A THOUSAND TIMES OVER FOR THE SPECIAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHARED IT WITH ME>.
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Steph: I am DELIGHTED to hear of your good results!!!!! Only someone who has been in
that situation knows the anxiety you go through. Sorta like the elation I felt when I got
the news that the breast CA was not in the lymph nodes :-*
Joy
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Oh! dearest Anna, I am so sad to hear the news. Please accept my deepest sympathy at your loss. Please, email me or call me whenever you have time to turn around. I am glad that your family is close by for you at this time when you especially need them. Take good care of yourself, it's important that you stay healthy.
I love you my friend.
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Anna, what shines through your post is what a wonderful blessing you have been to so many people. It's amazing to think of how much good you have done in the world.
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Anna, I am so very sorry to hear your news. I remember you from the beach. You are a born nurturer.. Lots of bean soup and joy as I remember.
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I think PatH said it best for me, ANNA. Thank you for taking the time to share your post with us. It's a pleasure to have met you years ago, and to have you with us here.
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Do not go gentle..... I have been thinking of my mother.
She had colon cancer, survived three years, but knew for the last year, that she would not survive. The last few months she changed.. She planned in great death her funeral.. picked the hymns, wrote down where she wanted things to go.. All in all it was like she was closing. I did not handle this well, since I was still fighting.. She died quite peacefully. Now I think I understand that she had made her goodbyes.. Even if that horrible person she was living with, would not let us have any of her posessions , except for her clothes.. Never never move in with someone and take your stuff without clearly labeling all of it with written instructions with your attorney. It was a horrible experience. The only person, I have ever wholeheartedly hated. He brought his new girl friend to the funeral. I came as close as I ever have to attacking another human being.
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Oh, STEPH, what a terrible experience. I wanted to slug the guy, just reading about it. How can people be so cold?!
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He was a terrifying cunning old guy. Mom was in a line of older sick women who he lived with, took a lot of money from and then watched them die. He tried a bunch of tricks in her last weeks, but I had arrived and alerted our attorney and he thwarted most of the schemes.. A truly awful man. He sold most of our family stuff at an auction in the last six months of her life. We never even knew. My cousin and I tried t retrieve her stuff, but he called the law and the police were not on his side, but said other than clothing and jewelry, we could not remove anything. We went ahead that day and took any family pictures off the walls..and her dog..besides the clothing. He said he had a sale for the dog and I came close to spitting in his face. My husband held me back and the policeman said he knew that the dog was Miss Veras dog and I should take it. A bad time in my life for sure.
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I'm so glad that policeman was able to save the dog for you, STEPH. I'm sure
they hated not being able to do more for you. It's also very fortunate that your mother had an attorney that you could alert, and you were able to do that. It does occur to me...I'm an optimist...that once the police were aware of this guy and his activities, they may well have made life more difficult for him.
One can only hope.
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Small towns.. He already had another elderly girl friend and sure enough, she also had cancer. I swear that he used to sit in doctors offices and look for them. We never knew where and when they met. He just suddenly appeared. I knew he was weird when she said he did not get social security. I told her that was impossible, but she always believed him. I think he simply did not want her to know his real name.
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Apparently some of the predators find their prey by attending therapy group sessions, STEPH. I can see how it would not be hard at all to sit in the waiting room of some cancer specialist and identify an elderly patient. They would even learn the name when the nurse called the patient in.
How I despise these human leeches, both male and female. Bah!
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I spent a lot of time and effort making sure that he got a lot of notoriety in the little town.. Told all my friends before I left to go home. Wrote letters to the editor of the local paper on how to keep your aging parent safe.. Notified via our attorney anyone we could prove had bought her family items. Got all of my cousins ( I have 10 ) involved. We made his life moderately uncomfortable..
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Good for you! I'm all for forgiveness, but not for allowing the culprit to
continue doing harm.
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Am I right? Is it time for a new topic? Could it maybe be about
Twitter. Friends keep urging me to join and I am baffled by the whole thing.. Surely there might be a current article about it. Seems to be everywhere. I have a friend who joined strictly to be able to give her elected politicians a jab periodically.
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I have no idea what a 'Twitter' is. Enlighten me, please.
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Yes it is time for a new topic and I have one waiting, but there's a slight hang up, if we can't get it up on Monday Twitter will appear in its place and if we can, (waiting for artist's jpeg for the heading) then we'll do Twitter after the next one.
Let's wait and discuss it then, great suggestion. I'm sure half of the country wondered, tuning in to Larry King to see Susan Boyle, what on earth P Diddy and Ashton Kutcher (husband of Demi Moore) were talking about. Tweet tweet.
Good one!
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OK, we're about to leave this topic, but I have to post something about a personal model, my great-great grandmother. She was born in 1806, and a clipping from the Cincinnati Enquirer in 1899 describing her 70th wedding anniversary says "It is not an uncommon thing to see Mrs. Brown mount a horse and ride away as gaily as a girl of 16 and she walks as erect and as smartly as any girl". She died a few years later from the pneumonia she caught while stacking firewood in the middle of winter.
My 2 attempts at horseback riding were a draw (horse 1, me 1) and my posture has never been erect, but I'm good at the cantankerous independence that leads you to stack firewood in the middle of winter, and that's how I want to go.
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Babi.. Twitter is a short method of communicating.. www.twitter.com will show you what is happening.
I am up for any sort of new topic.. I do love this discussion. We do not wring everything out twice or three times.. I like the short forms.
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Okay, STEPH. Thanks for the definition. I'll be thinking about a possible topic and post here if something grabs me. :P
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Pat, the image will forever remain in my imagination. What a heart-warming farewell to the current op/ed topic.
Stacking firewood in her nineties. In the middle of winter. Setting things up for a cheery, comforting blaze in the fireplace. What a way to go. How poetic. And that was long, long before Dylan Thomas and his panic-stricken angst.
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I find myself unable to care in the least about P. Diddy or Demi Moore's husband. (yawn) Sorry. I do need to learn more about Twitter, tho', to allay
some of my ignorance in that area.
Here's a magazine article (The New York Times Magazine) that I found
interesting, since it's about books vs. on-line for kids learning to read. I
suspect the author's nostalgia had a great deal to do with her opinions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/magazine/01wwln-medium-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Feb.%201,%202009%20+%20%22Click%20and%20Jane%22&st=cse
(Jane told me how to turn that long address into a clickable word. I should
have written it down, knowing what a short memory I have now.)
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The only advantage I could see online for people learning to read is the instant correction, you could obtain on the web. Classrooms are often chaotic with too many children to help them all at once. I know our granddaughter did much better at Sylvan for learning to read. It was the one on one stuff that helped her the most.
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I have loved the discussion here, thank you all for your unique and wonderful posts.
Our next topic for two weeks, Topic #4, is one dear to our hearts, who has not been guilty of this one? hahaha
Come on over and give us your thoughts: the floor is now open to hear YOUR point of view!
Just click here , we're looking for YOU!
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=456.msg20517#msg20517