Post by: BooksAdmin on June 01, 2012, 01:45:03 AM
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
CAN YOU JOIN US HERE ON FRIDAY, JUNE 15?
RUN by Ann Patchett
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/run/run cover.jpg) | Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families, a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago, have a connection. "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser) And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children." Patchett beautifully weaves together seemingly disparate lives to show how intimately humans can connect. |
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About the Author: Ann Patchett was born in Los Angeles, California and moved to Nashville, Tennessee when she was six, where she continues to live. Patchett said she loves her home in Nashville with her doctor husband and dog.  She owns and runs Parnassus Books, an independent bookstore in Nashville.
Her fourth novel, Bel Canto, published in 2002, won both the Orange Prize and the PEN/Faulkner Award. In 2006 she was the editor of the anthology series of the Best American Short Stories. Run, her fifth novel, was published in 2007. In 2011 State of Wonder, shortlisted for the prestigious Orange Award, was published. |
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Discussion Schedule: June 15~17 Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 |
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net),
Post by: JoanP on June 01, 2012, 08:51:10 AM
Run is a fascinating novel, with very different messages. Is it about families, blended families - or as Ms. Patchett herself says, is it about politics? Or both? I read an interview in which she revealed that she had begun the novel's setting in Paterson, N.J. - but like John Updike, she abandonned that idea and moved her cast of characters to Boston, Mass. I imagine Boston politics to provide more interest than Paterson's. (said by this true Jersey girl, born and bred.)
Another interesting note - the entire story plays out in a twenty four hour period. I'm told it's a real page turner - difficult to put down. This may have an impact on our reading/discussion schedule. Have any of you read this book already?
Please leave a note here if you think you can join us in mid-June. I've been reading reviews and really look forward to hearing different viewpoints...as we discuss this follow-up to Bel Canto. I find the author herself to be a fascinating character.
Everyone is welcome, old friends and new!
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 02, 2012, 02:15:43 PM
Who else is joining in? You don't want to miss this.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 02, 2012, 06:29:17 PM
Jean
Post by: JoanP on June 02, 2012, 06:29:57 PM
Jean - you came in as I was typing - and yes, it will be fun to have you in the discussion - you are signed up! Welcome - both of you!
Post by: Babi on June 03, 2012, 08:18:03 AM
through it this time, to refresh my memory. But there are parts I'll happily read again
for the sheer pleasure of it.
Post by: Steph on June 03, 2012, 08:21:20 AM
Post by: ALF43 on June 03, 2012, 10:28:12 AM
Now I've got to go buy this book so I will have it on hand to refer to. I've missed you ladies and this should prove an interesting read to share.
Post by: ANNIE on June 03, 2012, 10:44:14 AM
Post by: Tomereader1 on June 03, 2012, 12:20:48 PM
Post by: JoanP on June 03, 2012, 01:45:11 PM
I've yet to pick up my copy of the book from the Library. I'm thinking that we will be able to discuss this book in less than a month - it's not a lengthy book and I'm told the entire story takes place in a 24 hour period.
I find Ann Patchett herself and interesting character. A writer who owns her own bookstore! If you're ever in Nashville, see if you can find it - Parnassus Books, it's called. It just opened this past November. A small independent bookstore is a rarity these days - especially one that is just opening. Here's one link to the store -
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142413792/ann-patchett-opens-parnassus-books-in-nashville
Post by: serenesheila on June 03, 2012, 07:06:42 PM
Sheila
Post by: Babi on June 04, 2012, 08:12:48 AM
a busy June. We should be able to discuss it in less than a month, I would think,
JOAN.
Post by: Steph on June 04, 2012, 08:50:26 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 04, 2012, 09:32:39 AM
Quote
"She writes such different stuff. Each one is a stand alone.. I love that"Steph, don't you wonder where the widely different ideas for her novels come from? I was always taught in writing courses - write what you know.
Bel Canto - a Japanese opera singer, a South American terrorist/hostage taking...based on an actual event in Peru. - State of Wonder - set in the Amazon rain forest, a research scientist sent to Brazil to locate the remains of her deceased lab mate — who had been sent into the rain forest months earlier to find another employee who has been working to unlock the secret to the prolonged fertility of an isolated Amazonian tribe.
And now, Run, a former Boston major, who is dealing with a poor black family, victims of a traffic accident duirng one of those Massachusetts snowstorms.
Don't you wonder where she gets the ideas for her fiction? Maybe this is what sets Ann Patchett apart - you never know what her next story witll be. No forumlaic writing here. No sequels either...
This will be a fun discussion, I am sure.
Post by: kidsal on June 05, 2012, 07:48:40 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 05, 2012, 07:52:46 AM
Post by: Steph on June 05, 2012, 10:00:02 AM
Post by: mabel1015j on June 05, 2012, 04:23:42 PM
Jean
Post by: JoanP on June 06, 2012, 08:41:34 AM
Bel Canto Jun-2001
The Magician's Assistant Oct-1997
The Patron Saint of Liars Sep-1996
Run Oct-2007
State of Wonder Jun-2011
Jean, glad you were able to pick up the book so quickly. She's a popular author, but Run is not the latest, so I don't think we'll have trouble getting finding library copies.
Post by: marjifay on June 06, 2012, 09:56:54 PM
I'm in Chapter 2 where the two boys are hurrying to meet their dad for a Jesse Jackson speech. I can't imagine attending a speech by Jackson, as I can never understand a word he says. A local talk show host in LA does a silly segment every so often called "What the H_ll Did Jesse Jackson Say?" He plays a sentence spoken by Jackson and prople try to guess what he is saying.
I'm wondering why the author made their adopted children black. The wife is a red-headed Irish lady. Is her husband black?
Onward...
Marj
Post by: Steph on June 07, 2012, 08:44:11 AM
Post by: marjifay on June 07, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
Marj
Post by: JoanP on June 07, 2012, 11:52:36 AM
Let's all try to remember that some have not started the book yet - and that the discussion is set to begin a week from Friday - on JUNE 15. I'm going to put that in bigger letters in the heading to avoid confusion. Be sure to write down your questions/observations if you have already begun the book!
Post by: marjifay on June 07, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
Marj
Post by: JoanP on June 07, 2012, 03:47:14 PM
Don't go far away - it's almost the 15th!
Post by: mabel1015j on June 07, 2012, 03:53:47 PM
Jean
Post by: Steph on June 08, 2012, 08:29:44 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 08, 2012, 08:47:43 AM
Hope you'll think about it.
Post by: marcie on June 08, 2012, 11:03:02 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 09, 2012, 08:05:07 AM
I just came across this news from the Book Expo convention two days ago in New York -
"Author Ann Patchett won the award for Most Engaging Author at this year's BookExpo America convention"
You can read more about her acceptance speech here - in which she had "some choice words for book giant Amazon when she accepted the award: http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2012/0607/Ann-Patchett-calls-out-Amazon
Post by: Steph on June 09, 2012, 08:45:54 AM
I just bought Patchetts newest yesterday. I wanted to have it on hand, since I do like her so much.
Post by: bookad on June 09, 2012, 05:36:09 PM
have not heard of this author...am intrigued ...our 'Orillia' library has just moved into its new facilities and so I have put a hold on this book the large print copy (large print books have not been unboxed yet)... always interested in finding new authors to read...so please include me in this discussion
Deb
Post by: kidsal on June 10, 2012, 09:00:16 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 10, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
ps. Steph - If your memory is anything like mine, I bet you'd find a lot more in a rereading of Dickens than you did 50 years ago...and a different perspective too.
Post by: Steph on June 11, 2012, 08:36:18 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 11, 2012, 08:37:56 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 12, 2012, 08:03:31 AM
Discussion Schedule:
June 15~17 Chapters 1-3
June 18~20 Chapters 4-6
Post by: Babi on June 12, 2012, 08:57:24 AM
classical Greek dramas that all took place in one day. Any parallels there, do you think/
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 12, 2012, 10:25:44 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 12, 2012, 10:28:50 AM
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Everyone is welcome
RUN by Ann Patchett
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/run/run cover.jpg) | Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection. "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser) And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children." |
*********************************************************************************
| About the Author: Ann Patchett was born in Los Angeles, California and moved to Nashville, Tennessee when she was six, where she continues to live. Patchett said she loves her home in Nashville with her doctor husband and dog. She owns and runs Parnassus Books, an independent bookstore in Nashville.
|
| Discussion Schedule: June 15~17Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 |
Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 17
June 15 - 17
Chapter 1
1. Why do you think the author starts the novel with the story of the statue of Mary and who should inherit it?
2. Have you had similar experiences with family heirlooms following the death of a family member? Do you know an easy way to resolve such a situation? Could Doyle have resolved the situation himself, without the intervention of a third party?
Chapter 2
1. Do you fault Doyle for trying to instill his own values and interests in his sons? Do you think the boys' upbringing would have been much different, had Bernadette lived? Does Uncle Sullivan provide a needed balance in their lives? What do you see of the relationship between Doyle and his brother-in-law?
2. Sullivan seems to be introduced as the black sheep of the family, a lost cause. How do you see him? Why has Doyle detached himself from his first-born son? Do you see any similarities between him and the two younger boys?
Chapter 3
1. Do you think anyone, (but a mother) would jump in front of a fast-moving car to save someone else? Would you? Do you notice a subtle change in Tip after the incident, or is it just the medication?
2. Did the reader know that Tennessee was the boys' mother before Doyle, Tip and Teddy did? Did Teddy know of their relationship when he insisted they couldn't leave Kenya at the hospital, even as Doyle worried about a kidnapping charge? Do you understand Doyle's concerns?
Chapter 4
1. Was it surprising that the boys had never asked Doyle about their birth mother after Bernadette died? Was Doyle prepared to answer them if they had? Do you think he knows who she is?
2. What is Doyle's reaction to Kenya's revelation? Do you think he'll want DNA testing or does he know she's who she says she is?
Chapter 5
1. What was Doyle's relationship with Sullivan just before Bernadette died? How old was he when she died?. Do you see similarities between Sullivan and the two younger boys?
2. Is The Voyage of the Beagle an actual book - by Charles Darwin? Why did it appeal to the boys as a bedtime story? How might it be relevant here?
Chapter 6
1. Can you blame Teddy for believing Father Sullivan cured those two women and can save his mother's life? What seems to have caused Father Sullivan's loss of faith and belief in the afterlife - that his mother was waiting for him in heaven? How does he explain the the healing of these two women if not a miracle?
2 . How was Sullivan able to open up to Tennessee about why he left Boston and Doyle's lie after the accidentl? Is it possible that his father wasn't lying and that he wasn't driving the car the night Natalie died? Has Tennessee been as forthcoming in answering Sullivan's questions as he has been with her?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net),
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 12, 2012, 10:35:41 AM
Do the rest of you browse in bookstores? Of course, age does limit one's ability to drive distances or even to drive. Thank goodness for libraries.
Post by: marjifay on June 12, 2012, 01:55:50 PM
Yes, Ella, thank goodness for libraries (I can order online and my son picks them up for me). And thank goodness for online bookstores like Amazon -- altho' they make it too easy to buy books!
Marj
Post by: JoanP on June 12, 2012, 07:21:29 PM
I imagine she's experiencing the power of Amazon right now?
Marjifay, I don't think Ann P. is selling used books- I'm going to check out Parnassus bookstore now.
Post by: JoanP on June 12, 2012, 07:29:37 PM
About
An Independent Bookstore for Independent People
Description
Mission Statement:
Mt. Parnassus in Greek mythology is the home of literature, learning and music. We will be Nashville’s Parnassus by providing a refuge for Nashvillians of all ages who share in the love of the written word. We will partner with and support local writers and artists, businesses and institutions. We will strive to bring readers the best books in literature, non-fiction, children’s books, local interest and the arts in both printed and digital formats. We will provide venues for writers to connect with readers, and readers to connect with books. By doing this we hope to complement and add to the rich cultural character of the Athens of the South.
Post by: marcie on June 13, 2012, 12:01:26 AM
Post by: Steph on June 13, 2012, 08:47:16 AM
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 14, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
MARJ, sorry about the osteo, what is the pill supposedly to heal bone loss; my doctor wants me to take it. My health problems due to age are increasing also. It is the reason I recently moved into a retirement community - at the moment I am renting an apartment but it is connected to stepdowns and I am promised care for the rest of my life. It's strange, but a good feeling nevertheless.
One of the books I got at the used bookstore was TAFT by Ann Patchett. A strange, disconnected, book; another book which features a race situation - a common theme for authors.s
Perhaps it is just my opinion but I think as time goes on, and well after my death, race will no longer be such a problem in America.
Post by: JoanP on June 14, 2012, 05:01:50 PM
Ella, Taft sounds a bit like Run, doesn't it? Where does Ann P. get these names from? You're reading Taft - is this a character in the book - named after Howard Taft? In Run, we meet Tip and Teddy...which is more than enough odd names for one book in my opinion - but then we have Kenya and Tennessee too. I havn't read enough yet to read where these two names come from. Do you think Tip and Teddy are the boys' legal names - or are they nicknames, given to them by their politico father?
Then there are the race issues, the death of a parent, children left to reconstruct the missing parent. I'm sure we are each finding something of interest in Run. One question I'd like to address once we get into the book - how you view this story - is it mainly about families, how children pull themselves together and go on when a parent dies - or is it about interracial families - or, as the author has said, about politics?
Bright and early tomorrow morning - I hope to meet you here!
Post by: bookad on June 14, 2012, 07:01:39 PM
just got my book from the library, ready for the beginning of the read...looks like an interesting book, especially following the above discussion I am intrigued
I asked my husband if our route to Fort Myers could go thru Nashville...and it looks like that can be an option...I love small book stores ...we have one here in Orillia, Ontario, called Maticore...
it'll be interesting to go to that bookstore after reading Ann's book...will look forward to it, though that will be in late October or early November
Deb
Post by: Babi on June 15, 2012, 08:26:57 AM
change since we were young is monumental. We've gone from 'back of the bus' to President
of the United States! Not to mention an extremely popular First Lady.
To me, "Run" seems to be primarily about families...what makes a family, how greatly
differing personalities can meld, and the need of the younger generation to find their
own path, despite the hopes and dreams of Dad or Mom.
Post by: Steph on June 15, 2012, 08:38:36 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 15, 2012, 08:52:34 AM
I agree, I think the story is primarily about families - though I can see where race comes into it. Not so sure about the political aspect, but then, I've only read the first half of the book. Perhaps it comes into play later, as Ann Patchett, in an interview, sees the book's central idea is about political responsibility.
Deb, I'm so happy that you will represent us at the author's bookstore in Nashville! Be sure to share your experience with us? This discussion will be in the Archives by then, but you can always drop by SeniorLearn's Library. How long will you be Fort Myers? We make an annual pilgrimmage there - husband plays in a November softball tournament. I always look forward to a week on Ft. Myers Beach before the games begin.
Post by: JoanP on June 15, 2012, 09:06:56 AM
Beginning the book with the question of inheritance - and the rights of the first-born, the author seems to be bringing up a clash between the conventional traditional rules and change from the old ways of doing things.
Why do you think she began the book with the story of the statue of Mary and her importance to the Doyle family?
Post by: ALF43 on June 15, 2012, 09:34:36 AM
Anyway, I think in the long run we will find that Kenya is the key to our story. I love the idea of multi generational and multi racial, although when it comes to families, what is the difference?
My granddaughter just attended her first prom, at 16, with a young, black man. I cringe to think what my father, who was very bigoted would think of his great-grand daughter dancing with a black boy.
He used to say that in 50 yrs. everyone will be gray and I hope that is so. At least noone will be pointing any fingers, casting aspersions. I remember arguing with him that my black class mate in nursing school was whiter on the inside than he was. Oh brother- now I hang my head in shame to think I spoke that way to him.
I love what Babi pointed out, "we've gonefrom back of the bus to Presidentof the US."
Bernadette's statue and its proper entitlement sets up our story as we learn of the statue's origin. Do you think that the statue had anything to do with the good luck bestowed on the young newly weds? After all, it was stolen, even if it did bear an uncanny resemblance to Doreen Clark's face!
Post by: ANNIE on June 15, 2012, 09:43:04 AM
As to whether I guessed that Kenya and her mother were related to the boys, it never occurred to me.
I liked the way Doyle raised the boys. He certainly gave many different ways to mature by introducing them to his love of politics and the ocean.
As to Sullivan, he really comes across as unpopular with his father due to his problems with drink and drugs but then we see that he is not quite as first presented.
For me the book is about a family and its relation to the world.
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 15, 2012, 09:56:58 AM
Somewhere Doyle thinks how ironic it is that he spent thousands of dollars for a good education for one of the boys and he spends all his time in the basement studying and filing away fish in jars. How many of us have thought similarly.
Hello to all of you - good friends! I've read the posts.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 15, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
BTW, i'm not from Mass so maybe i'm not enamoured enough w/ Democratic politicians from there, but really? Would someone give their kid the name Tip in honor if Tip O'Neill? What was Tip O'Neill's actual first name? Can you imagine this poor kid having to explain why his name is Tip all his life, and especially as an adult? I know some parents have been cruel when bestowing names on their children. I hope she expounds on those names somewhere in the story.
I can't figure out the title yet. So far the only potential connection to "Run" is Kenya's talent at it. ALF, my dgt had a friend named Kenya in high school.
Also can't yet figure out the statue angle, except maybe the sisters will use the racial angle against the boys getting it, but that could have been the arguement w/ any adopted boys.
I don't fault Doyle for trying to instill his values in his children, don't we all do that? Isn't that a job of parents? And sometimes we have to push, especially w/ teenage/college age children. Not constantly, but sometimes children need to be DIRECTED. :)
Lots of questions, answers still to come, i hope.
Jean
Post by: marcie on June 15, 2012, 08:08:50 PM
Jean. Tip O'Neill's full name was Thomas Phillip "Tip" O'Neill.
Post by: ANNIE on June 15, 2012, 09:33:01 PM
I never connected "Tip" with Tip O'Neil but this is Boston so who do we think "Teddy" is named after? Hahahaha!
Post by: JoanP on June 15, 2012, 09:52:21 PM
I'm with you, I'm looking for some sort of explanation for the names in the story. Kenya and Tennessee. Tip and Teddy? Even Bernard and Bernadette. I did look up "Tip" as Teddy is obvious. Marcie, I looked up Tip O'Neill's name - Thomas Phillip O'Nei, as you say...Thought Tip was an elision of Thomas and Phillip...but read further that he was a baseball fan...nick-named for "a baseball player, James Edward O'Neill of the old St. Louis Browns, who had the knack of hitting foul tips until the pitcher walked him. So Mr. O'Neill's boyhood friends gave him the name."
No real clue there as to why the Doyle boys were so named. But when you put the two names together, two Irish politicians...and the Irishman, Bernard Doyle, former mayor of Boston - Boston liberals all, fighting for the working man. Maybe there will be more on the political aspects of the story as we go along. Bernard and Bernadette must have given these boys Irish nicknames for a reason don't you think? Probably AFTER Teddy was adopted - but I'm just guessing.
Post by: JoanP on June 15, 2012, 09:52:45 PM
Since the statue was introduced first, let's consider its significance of that for a bit. You describe it as a "catchy way to draw us into the book," Jean. I wonder if it will continue to be important to the story. Annie wonders if Kenya will end up inheriting the statue. Now there's a thought.
Funny, isn't it - a redhaired Mary? I've seen brunettes and blonds, but never red-haired blue eyed Marys. Doreen's husband was so taken with the likeness to Doreen - that he stole it! Doreen loved it - because she looked so much like herself. Her greanddaughter loved it, because everyone said she looked like Doreen - and the statue. Her little boys loved it because it looked like Bernadette - the only mother they knew.- Is the statue supposed to go to the one who most closely resembles it? Is it supposed to stay in Doreen Clark's own blood line?
Andy, do you remember how many knew that statue had been stolen? Did Bernadette tell her husband? Who will tell the boys when the time comes? I don't see how good luck would follow ta family whose history is based on lies. Doreen had a hard time with this, too...and yet family members coveted it. Did Bernadette's sister know the story when she tried to get Doyle to give it to her? She felt entitled, didn't she? Why did Doyle stand up to her - how did he get her to back off?
Ella, you always pick up on the funniest things...Bernadette praying to stop praying! I'm going to go back and read that section again.
Post by: marjifay on June 16, 2012, 12:33:45 AM
I'm not sure why the book started with the story of the stolen statue.
I'm still wondering why Patchett made the two boys black. Was it to show the contrast between a rich and poor family. As tho' black people are poor? Isn't that a stereotype?
This book was a bit better than her State of Wonder which was a DNF for me. I haven't read Bel Canto which everyone seems to think is very good.
Marj
Post by: Steph on June 16, 2012, 08:29:08 AM
Post by: Babi on June 16, 2012, 09:23:00 AM
to cats, others to squirrels. The description fits both when they're excited and ready for
action. So of course, in referring to people, it means they are excited and ready to go.
As to the significance of the story of the statue, that will surely become clearer as
the story develops. Interesting point about the 'red-haired' Mary. But then, it was an Irish-made statue. We know there have been black statues of the Virgin as well. It's natural enough, isn't
it, that different ethnic artists would want to create an image their people could relate to and imagine as empathizing and understanding them?
It appears that Bernadette's family were very supportive of her adoption of the boys,
JEAN. They could reasonably object, tho', that the statue has always passed on to a daughter.
We definitely do instill our values into our children...for better or worse. Haven't we always thought, when we hear a child say revealing things, that we 'know where that came from'? As for career choices, I never pointed any of my children in a particular direction. I was far too fascinated by watching them grow and develop their own interests.
Post by: ALF43 on June 16, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
I can't really blame the father for being a tad upset at Tip for holing himself up into the Dept. of Ichtyology. The guy even forgot to wear a coat, he was so involved with his fish. YUK! all that education and he becomes an introvert studying the life cycles of different species of fish. I'm with the old man on that one(even if he did taket he blame for Tip's original interest in fish.)
I love this statement: " Would the country lay down its foreign wars, its need for health care and education, in order to turn its collective gaze to the splendors of the cod?' That cracked me up- the only lol sentence I've find, so far.
It's heart warming that Teddy's bond with Sullivan and the Roman Church was so strong .
Yes, Patchett makes it clear, early on, that this is a story about politics. I didn't realize that "being a Democrat" necessitated a responsibility. That is why Doyle continued to drag his two, loyal sons toward "the cause of leadership."
Off to the lake for two days for sun and fun. Enjoy your father's day weekend.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 16, 2012, 05:39:04 PM
If some of this story is to focus on race, i wish she had given us more story on that issue. I have my doubts if, in Boston, or almost anywhere else in the country, the whole family would have been supportive of the adoption. She seems to glide over some parts of the "race" story with idealism. It would be wonderful if that would happen everywhere, but i doubt that it would. Adoption is a choice, i'm sure there would be arguements about how difficult it would be to raise two Black boys - perhaps with all good intentions, but an arguement just the same. I know many people are more accepting today about family members marrying inter-religiously or inter-racially then when i got married, but those extended family members don't have a choice of having that spouse in the family altho they may have something to say to the family member before the wedding.
Maybe she wanted a "small" story, but i think it might have been more interesting to add some incidents/events where race is a bigger and more realistic part of the Doyle's lives. Of course, our whole country has a huge problem discussing racial issues and tends to avoid those discussions, so maybe that's the issue we are seeing here. It would be ironic, Patchett quietly showing the issue of Americans not dealing with racial issues by not dealing with the ravial issues of the protagonists in her story!!! ???
Post by: mynioga on June 16, 2012, 07:17:36 PM
Post by: ANNIE on June 16, 2012, 08:07:58 PM
Post by: JoanP on June 16, 2012, 11:19:59 PM
Jean, I got the feeling that Bernadette's family was happy and supportive of her wishes to have another child. These are Irish Catholics - one child was not the norm. I wonder how Sullivan took the repeated attempts and disappointment before the first baby was adopted. I think the Doyles would have been happy with that baby - with Tip, but then the mother wanted them to take the younger child - and so they did.
I went back and reread the opening chapter to get a sense of how the family had accepted the boys. I thought it was telling when they came to the Doyle's house shortly after Bernadette's death to collect the statue, which they felt belonged to Bernadette's niece - "because the statue always goes to a daughter." When Doyle responded that "it has in the past but it isn't a law. It can go to a son for one generation and everyone will survive."
The two women, the aunts knew that Doyle didn't mean Sullivan, his oldest son.
He meant the other ones, the "little boys" ...And why should two adopted sons, two black adopted sons, own the statue..." The italics are the author's. Do you get the feeling that that is their main objection - or the fact that they are boys, adopted boys? What is the point Ann Patchett is making with this issue?
It's a good thing the aunts accepted Uncle Sullivan's viewpoint - Tip and Teddy were able to keep the statue - which meant so much to them.
I've had some experience with the distribution of family heirlooms following my father's death.{My mother died when I was very young.} It was just assumed by my four younger siblings that the real heirlooms were to be mine - my mother's engagement ring, the old Family Bible, family history recorded inside.. I'm not sure where these should go after I'm gone. Years later, I learn that my sister had always wanted the family pictures...newspaper clippings, obituaries, my mother's artwork - all stored at my house.
I can't see my guys fighting over these things, but how do I decide which of my siblings to pass them on to? I understand Doyle's point in this case - but in general, the old way seems to be an easy place to start. How do you handle this sort of thing?
Thanks for the explanation, Babi - wish I could say I was "bushtailed" first thing in the morning. :D
Post by: marcie on June 17, 2012, 12:01:28 AM
He meant the other ones, the "little boys" ...And why should two adopted sons, two black adopted sons, own the statue..."
And you say: The italics are the author's. Do you get the feeling that that is their main objection - or the fact that they are boys, adopted boys? What is the point Ann Patchett is making with this issue?
I think that their main objection is gender. The statue is supposed to go to a girl.... and a girl that looks like the statue. Perhaps that is why the italics. The inheritors-to-be are not Irish girls and on top of it, they are black boys. Black boys do not look like a red-headed statue.
I agree that there is not a lot of racial tension in the book. It seems to me that the author was trying to focus on similarities, rather than race-differences, although she does include differences.
Post by: Babi on June 17, 2012, 09:40:36 AM
that the race issues were less noticeable in their lives. Tip and Teddy would not have had
the same experiences Kenya did, certainly.
Quote
The two women, the aunts knew that Doyle didn't mean Sullivan, his oldest son.JOANP, how did you come to that conclusion? I don't remember anything that suggested Doyle was referring only to the two adopted boys in his remarks about the statue. It would be rather strange, if he did. All the boys were still quite young when Bernadette died.
The aunts, of course, could have felt it would be wrong for the statue to..in their eyes..
leave the family.
I am enjoying becoming 're-acquainted' with the family. Tip is the scientist, an ichthyologist. He is enthralled with marine life and works at the Museum of Comparative Zoology. Teddy is the people person, the empathetic one, concerned for the happiness and well-being of those around him. And Sullivan, complex, troubled, and perhaps entering a 'sea change'.
Uncle Sullivan, retired aging priest, firmly believed by many to be a saint and able to heal,
to his considerable distress. Yet he pities those who come, he cannot refuse to pray for them,
and sometimes...well, they claim he has healed them.
Bernard Doyle wants at least one of his sons to follow him into politics. He as been taking
them to hear lectures and speeches on political topics since they were old enough to sit through
one. “They were practically legends of patience in certain circles, sitting quietly in their white
shirts at dinner tables full of adults, occasionally offering up a single insightful and utterly
charming question.”
Post by: Steph on June 17, 2012, 10:05:02 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 17, 2012, 10:43:45 AM
The title could refer to both forms of running.
Babi - I was quoting the book - page 2 in the hardcover edition - "they knew that Doyle didn't mean for the family's one heirloom to pass to Sullivan, his oldest son." Funny, if it was supposed to go to the one who most resembled the statue, I remember reading that Sullivan bore a striking resemblance to Bernadette - the red hair, the blue eyes...
That could have been Doyle's arguement, the resemblance to his first born child - but it wasn't. He wanted to keep it because the "little" boys were attached to it.
Another interesting quote that tells us something about Doyle's strong personality - "I own it now and so I'm the one who gets to decide. Bernadette's children are as entitled to their family legacy as any other Sullivan children." I wonder what would have happened if Uncle Sullivan had favored the aunts' position...
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 17, 2012, 11:51:53 AM
What an interesting discussion this is turning out to be!
JOANP asked about family heirlooms - "but how do I decide which of my siblings to pass them on to?" I think you will know as time goies on which of the children show the most interest in family history; at least that is the way it has been in my family. Just recently my sister in AZ asked me for the copy of our mother's family history that is recorded in Tyler County Court House, W.VA. Well, I stored it in a plastic tub in my small storage basement area reserved for tenants in my retirement community. Now I will do a hard search for it. Why didn't she decide this earlier? It is because of a "fracking" interest we have in mineral rights inherited. Complicated, OH!
JEAN commented on the racial problem in America. "Of course, our whole country has a huge problem discussing racial issues and tends to avoid those discussions."
I agree and I think we at times gloss over this by stating that the situation is better than it was before the Civil Rights Act. It is still a big problem for all of us in America - I don't know how we can make it better.
Ann Patchett constantly in these first chapters mentions the black/white issue; the adoption - black/white attendants in the hospital, etc.
JESSE JACKSON, I do remember. I am with the boys, I thought he was boring to listen to, but he was a leader, a role model for young African Americans. And the Rainbow Coalition did bring awareness to the plight of African Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson
Post by: marjifay on June 17, 2012, 11:57:48 AM
That's how I felt about the story. What was the point in having the two adopted boys be black? It was pointed out often that they were black, but so what? Would the story have been any different if they were not black? I thought she was going to make some point, but it never seemed to me to be made.
There were some other things about the story, later on, that to me made no sense either.., i.e. Uncle Sullivan's mysterious "power," and Kenya's real mother.
Marj
Post by: ANNIE on June 17, 2012, 03:40:11 PM
Personally, I did not find the adoption of two black little boys offputting. Bernadette was so happy to have them and evidently her husband, the councilman and later mayor of Boston, was delighted also. Didn't I read of him wishing that they had adopted Kenya also as that would have given Bernadette such pleasure. They would have finally had a girl!
How do we know that Sullivan, the oldest and the one who looks the most like his mother won't get the statue? We do get a snatch of identification with his earlier years and how good he was with boys. Their color didn't come into the his story then? He considers them his brothers. I think there is more to hear about Sullivan in this book.
Post by: bookad on June 17, 2012, 10:48:10 PM
have not read anything by this author before & quite often have a hard time when reading a fiction book keeping my interest up
--but this book grabbed me...so many things to find out down the road....Sullivan & what got him into trouble, Kenya & her exposure to this family over the years, but only from a distance from across the street--the statue being brought back into the story & the relatives who feel it belongs elsewhere in the family-(mentioned at the beginning of the book & left out till the end of chapter 4 at least)
it seems we certainly wouldn't be enlightened about the scandal of the elder son till later in the book & ?? did the adoption cause a bit of scandal of its own; adopting outside the ethnic group of the family!!!???
Quote
After so many years people had forgotten about the adoptions and the death of his wife and the scandal surrounding his oldest son.pg 40 ch 2
though Ann Patchett really hasn't brought much into the book about the issue of a family adopting children of another ethnic background, she certainly in the paragraph below manages to make sure we are aware of a colour difference being noted.....
Quote
The ambulance driver was a black man with some island accent. Of the two men who worked on her mother, one was white and one was black. All three of the policeman were white men. The white ambulance attendant snapped a white plastic collar around her mother's neck, while the black ambulance attendant belted her legs.pg 60 ch3
why the use of the name
Quote
Sacajawea[/b]--wasn't she the Indian woman who led Lewis & Clark across the continent?---& her name came into play following Kenya tracking the snow from the steps the house so the boys and their father would be able to access the stairs better.--I guess she is leading the men into the unknown relationship she and her mother have with them!!!!????
I skimmed a rereading of the first 4 chapters and am game to continue...fortunately its the 17th & I guess we move to the next couple of chapters, though it was hard for me to stop & I guess I read chapter 4 ahead of schedule
Deb
Post by: mabel1015j on June 17, 2012, 11:09:02 PM
Jean
Post by: JoanP on June 18, 2012, 08:11:40 AM
Quote
"... though Ann Patchett really hasn't brought much into the book about the issue of a family adopting children of another ethnic background, she certainly in the paragraph below manages to make sure we are aware of a colour difference being noted."
Deb, I think you may be describing Ann Patchett's style with this observation. She's not going to tell us much about what her characters are thinking - or even what she, as the author, thinks of them. She makes the reader observe what they are doing, what they are saying - their actions speak for them. We're not going to get explanations or interpretations from Ms. Patchett.
I love these discussions - you all bring up things that I have read over without questionning - like Sacajawea. I think I read it as a term, acceptable slang, not a name -
Marjifay, stick with us - I have so much confidence in Ann Patchett's writing that when we are through with a close examination of what she has written, all will become clear. Clearer, at least. :D Admittedly, she's left many unanswered questions. Let's see how she does. If things still don't make sense to you, we can make a list for Deb to deliver to the bookstore in Nashville - how's that?
You ask an interesting question... "What was the point in having the two adopted boys be black? It was pointed out often that they were black, but so what? Would the story have been any different if they were not black?" Let's keep it in miind as we read.
Jean, I'm off to reread to find the "Sacajawea" reference in context - and refill the coffee cup. Will be right back.
Post by: JoanP on June 18, 2012, 08:15:10 AM
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Everyone is welcome
RUN by Ann Patchett
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/run/run cover.jpg) | Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection. "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser) And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children." |
*********************************************************************************
| About the Author: Ann Patchett was born in Los Angeles, California and moved to Nashville, Tennessee when she was six, where she continues to live. Patchett said she loves her home in Nashville with her doctor husband and dog. She owns and runs Parnassus Books, an independent bookstore in Nashville.
|
| Discussion Schedule: June 15~17Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 June 21-24 Chapters 7-9 June 25-26 Chapters 10 June 27-30 Chapter 11 and final thoughts |
Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 26
June 15 - 26
Chapter 1
1. Why do you think the author starts the novel with the story of the statue of Mary and who should inherit it?
2. Have you had similar experiences with family heirlooms following the death of a family member? Do you know an easy way to resolve such a situation? Could Doyle have resolved the situation himself, without the intervention of a third party?
Chapter 2
1. Do you fault Doyle for trying to instill his own values and interests in his sons? Do you think the boys' upbringing would have been much different, had Bernadette lived? Does Uncle Sullivan provide a needed balance in their lives? What do you see of the relationship between Doyle and his brother-in-law?
2. Sullivan seems to be introduced as the black sheep of the family, a lost cause. How do you see him? Why has Doyle detached himself from his first-born son? Do you see any similarities between him and the two younger boys?
Chapter 3
1. Do you think anyone, (but a mother) would jump in front of a fast-moving car to save someone else? Would you? Do you notice a subtle change in Tip after the incident, or is it just the medication?
2. Did the reader know that Tennessee was the boys' mother before Doyle, Tip and Teddy did? Did Teddy know of their relationship when he insisted they couldn't leave Kenya at the hospital, even as Doyle worried about a kidnapping charge? Do you understand Doyle's concerns?
Chapter 4
1. Was it surprising that the boys had never asked Doyle about their birth mother after Bernadette died? Was Doyle prepared to answer them if they had? Don't you think he knows the name of the birth mother?
2. What is Doyle's reaction to Kenya's revelation? Do you think he'll want DNA testing or does he already know who she says she is?
Chapter 5
1. What was Doyle's relationship with Sullivan just before Bernadette died? How old was he when she died?. Do you see similarities between Sullivan and the two younger boys?
2. Is The Voyage of the Beagle an actual book - by Charles Darwin? Why did it appeal to the boys as a bedtime story? How might it be relevant here?
Chapter 6
1. Can you blame Teddy for believing Father Sullivan cured those two women and can save his mother's life? What seems to have caused Father Sullivan's loss of faith and belief in the afterlife - that his mother was waiting for him in heaven? How does he explain the the healing of these two women if not a miracle?
2 . How was Sullivan able to open up to Tennessee about why he left Boston and Doyle's lie after the accidentl? Is it possible that his father wasn't lying and that he wasn't driving the car the night Natalie died? Has Tennessee been as forthcoming in answering Sullivan's questions as he has been with her?
Chapter 7
1. "But how do you give up running?" "What do you like other than fish?" How does Tip respond to Kenya's questions? What made him give up the things he used to like?
2. How does Doyle react when he learns where Kenya and Tennessee have been living for so many years? "There was an old white guy crying in her living room." What brings Doyle to tears when he sees where the girl has been living?
Chapter 8
1. Do you think that Kenya's 'mother' imagines the conversation in the hospital with Tennessee Alice Moser after surgery or do you think it really happened? She had been heavily sedated. What do we learn from this conversation? Do you think Kenya should ever be given this information?
2. Do you understand now why Tennessee gave up Tip shortly after giving up Teddy? Does she have any concerns about their being adopted by a white family? What were her feelings when they were raised in a motherless home?
Chapter 9
1 Doyle had molded the boys to be "high-strung little do-gooders." Why does Tip conclude that Kenya had grown up with Doyle's curriculum? Does she have the same problem Tip expressed with pushing out the poor and the blacks to gentrify the homes on Tremont St.?
2. As a child, what do we learn about Tip's thoughts of the mother who gave him away? What does he think of her now after watching Kenya? What is it about the child that causes him to rethink choices he's made?
Chapter 10.
1. Do you find Patchett explaining more the differences between Teddy and Tip than their similarities? And Kenya, is she more alike these two than she is different? Is this intentional?
2. Do you think Sullivan's life, or his career path would have been any different today had the car accident not occurred? Why would Kenya's sudden appearance make a dfference in his relationship with his father?
3. Why has Tennessee concealed her true identity from Kenya? Is this important to Patchett's story? What was the cause of Teddy's rage at Sullivan's comment that the woman in the hospital bed was not Sullivan's mother?
4. Why is it important to Teddy to bring Uncle Sullivan to the hospital? Why does Fr. Sullivan want to go? What exactly do you see happen when he recognizes Tennessee and places his hand on her leg? Does he really believe he can heal her?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net),
Post by: Babi on June 18, 2012, 08:56:51 AM
their mother, and the statue that looked like her was a great comfort to them. That would
certainly be reason enough for me to refuse to give it up.
When I first started this re-read I just planned to skim it to refresh my memory. It
hasn't worked that way. I find myself reading on and on, with the same delight I felt
on the first time.
How was Sullivan able to open up to Tennessee about why he left Boston and Doyle's lie after the accident? Good question, and we can only speculate. I think Sullivan has reached
a point where he has to deal with the past. Tennesse is 'safe'. He can speak to her both because she cares, and because she has no associations with the events in his past, no
preconceptions. It must be a tremendous relief to him to get these things said.
Post by: Steph on June 18, 2012, 09:01:59 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 18, 2012, 09:24:51 AM
I managed to locate the Sacajawea reference in Chapter 4 - and like you, Babi, found myself rereading the first four chapters again - with great interest - and surprise at how much I'd forgotten.
Tip uttered "Sacajawea" as he attempted to manipulate his crutches on the steps in the snow. There may be more to Patchett's use of the name here, but I read it again as just an expression without any great significance. The Doyle boys don't seem to cuss, do they - even when talking to one another privately? Another example of how well brought up they are?
But maybe the use of the name here is significant...as Deb interpreted it.
Let's move on to the next three chapters today, - but feel quite free to relate back to the first three - We really haven't said much about the Sullivans - Father Sullivan and his nephew, named for him. These chapters build on what has been introduced in the first three.
I just noticed the last sentence at the end of Chapter 3 as we move on to the next chapter - Kenya's question - "Don't you ever wonder about your mother?"
Do you think it is at all surprising that the boys had never asked Doyle about their birth mother before or especially after Bernadette died? Was Doyle prepared for that moment? Do you assume that Doyle knows the name of the woman - "Moser"?
Post by: Babi on June 19, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
Kenya' footstep in the snow, a pathway made for him, to Lewis and Clark following in the
footsteps of their Indian guide.
Patchett is indeed a master at showing us her characters. Look at her perfect insights into Tip and Teddy. “Tip could be pinned into place by an idea. Set him on the floor with a picture book and he would stay until the book was finished. Set him on the floor with a can of Lincoln Logs and he would stay until he’d built himself a woody Taj Mahal.
“Teddy, on the other hand, was more like a cloud. The slightest breath of wind could send
him in the hall closet to hunt up a tennis racquet he hadn’t seen in years, or out to the mailbox
on the corner to see it the time for the pickup had changed even though he had nothing to mail.
It wasn’t that he refused to do the homework or even that he coldn’t manage it, it was just that
other things caught his attention, and anything that had Teddy’s attention had all of him.”
Know any people like that?
John Sullivan. Somewhere along the line Teddy’s love for his mother had become his love for Father Sullivan, and his love for Father Sullivan became his love for God. And his namesake,
Sullivan Doyle. What has Sullivan been doing? So far, the book gives the impression that he is something of a scapegrace, usually in trouble. There are indications he had to leave Africa in a bit of a hurry. Yet, there is a reference to “the various AIDS clinics he supplied.” And he has no trouble at all focusing on Kenya and her needs, accepting her freely. I suspect there is more
to Sullivan than appears at first glance.
Post by: Steph on June 19, 2012, 08:43:58 AM
Post by: mabel1015j on June 19, 2012, 12:11:32 PM
Jean
Post by: JoanP on June 19, 2012, 05:36:00 PM
I liked Sullivan too, Steph - and agree there is more to him than we're told - or we wouldn't like him so much. In my mind, he's exotic looking - that red hair, blue blue eyes - and that deep tan- unusual for an Irishman with this coloring. And can talk to anyone, around anyone.
So what happened to him when his mother died? How old was he...can you do the math? When did his father give up on trying to form his character as he did the other two?
Apparently, there was much of his father that rubbed off on Sullivan - even without Doyle taking an interest in him. What is Patchett saying here?
Sullivan is not really the blacksheep, is he? - pardon the pun. ;)
Why did he leave Africa in such a hurry - He fled, didn't he? Did you understand what he was doing - why he told Tennessee he was stealing? What was he really doing?
Post by: ALF43 on June 19, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
Perhaps it was due to the reference to the AIDS clinic that I automatically felt he was either involved in drug paraphenalia of perhaps was stealing anti-viral meds and administering it to those who had been refused treatment. Great pick up on Sacajawea comment. I thought it was a polite cuss word.
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 19, 2012, 07:38:15 PM
After meeting Kenya and seeing Tennessee in the hospital, all of them have thoughts or beliefs that Tennessee is their mother; even Doyle, who is afraid she might take back the two young boys he so dearly loves. Perhaps because she and Kenya have "spied" near the house so often? They all have seen her, felt her presence?
If that the reason Tip and Teddy never attempted to find their real mother. I haven't finished reading the book yet, but I have read enough to believe that Tennesse is the mother but haven't read her side of the story yet. She is on her way to surgery.
Post by: bookad on June 19, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
Quote
It was skimming. He simply took a little bit off the top of everything he had to make more for someone else. He could turn twenty vials into twenty-one. Then he could turn ten into eleven. Then five into six. It was a kind of mathematical genius. In a a country where the demand exceeded the supply by hundreds of thousands of vials he was saving lives and making money hand over fist, and then spending it fist over hand, pumping the fruits of his labor directly back into the fruitless economy. In that light it wasn`t even wrong. It was an expansive redistribution.ch 6 pg 198
Sullivan Doyle
I`m not sure I like this young man. How does he know that in skimming from the vials he is not jeopardizing the treatment for each individual receiving the medication. He seems devious. He rationalizes his behaviour with concern for Africa and it`s poverty
Deb
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 19, 2012, 07:41:53 PM
Post by: mabel1015j on June 19, 2012, 08:37:19 PM
He was 11 when his mother died, if i remember correctly. It sounds like Doyle was never fond if Sullivan and he also is rationalizing that he "stood by Sullivan, even if S would never acknowledge it. He had been an imperfect father to an imperfect son and as far as he was concerned they were even" pg 97. Before that he says " once Bernadette was gone and S did his best to destroy everything that wasn't already lost, (????) it was all Doyle could do not to write him off." i would say S was irresponsible - not appearing when he said he would for Christmas and then appearing out of the blue - but maybe i wouldn't be too concerned about coming home to that house if i had been considered the bad seed of the family.
But even before his Mother died S seems to have been a bully, taking the baby out, baiting children to say something about his mother "getting" a black baby and then "that cazy Irish boy (would) unleash himself like a hurricane upon another child." pg 102. Altho, he was rather putting up a good offense to preempt the defense he would have had to make of his mother or his Black brothers.
Being in an interracial family or group can add burdens to children's having to add another layer of figuring out who they are and at what point they have to, or should, explain the circumstances. It's always there in the back of the mind that some of the people you are in contact with are not going to like your situation, and if they don't know it, when should you tell. Or if someone makes a comment, which times do i speak up, or when do i ignore it......you must learn to pick your battles. It appears that at times S had decided to fight, even igniting the fight and as an adult he appears to "move away" from the battle.
So far my favorite person is Kenya - of course, we've seen no flaws in her yet. :)
Post by: ALF43 on June 19, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
Everything seems way too orchestrated to me. HowTennessee was just in close enough proximity to push him out of harm's way, just doesn't gel with me. I've not read ahead but why would this mother worship her boys from afar and still relate their importance to her only daughter? I know she knew the boys were better off but still this kid's only 11 yrs. old. How long had she been stalking them and no one ever noticed her presence, over all of those years?
Too convenient.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 19, 2012, 09:20:52 PM
Jean
Post by: ALF43 on June 20, 2012, 07:43:33 AM
I guess you're right Mabel, it's fiction NOT serendipity.
Post by: Babi on June 20, 2012, 08:41:23 AM
There personalities, tho', are very dissimilar. As to Sullivan and the younger boys, I
think we need to know more about to Sullivan to answer that one. Yes, he definitely 'fled'
Africa, and I believe we will learn more about that as the story proceeds. Something better
is emerging here. I like the way Ann Patchett lets events and information evolve as they
do in real life.
JEAN, I think you make a very good point with the idea of Sullivan 'pre-empting' the
defense of his Mother and and the two young ones he had grown so fond of. I think Sullivan
understands people and know how to relate to them.
I don't think is was 'convenient' at all, ALF. With Tennessee keeping such close tabs
on her boys as they grew up, I'm surprised there was no contact sooner. Tennessee was
very careful to keep a low profile. If Tip hadn't stepped in front of that car, they
might never have met.
Speaking of Tennessee, have you ever read a better description of someone coming back to awareness, slowly, after major trauma or surgery. The reader is right there with Tennessee Moser, fully participating in her gradual re-awakening, her confusion, the pain, the seemingly constant and unwelcome interventions of the staff.
Post by: Steph on June 20, 2012, 08:55:44 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 20, 2012, 09:43:48 AM
Quote
"I like the way Ann Patchett lets events and information evolve as theyExactly, Babi! It's as if we are eavesdropping into the conversations, picking up our information from what we overhear.
do in real life."
The only things we know about Sullivan come from his own tough self-assessment. Life has been hard on him - ever since the little boys have come into his life. The boys have had it easy - love, attention and every opportunity. Piano lessons, education... But Sullivan had such an adjustment to make, which he might have done had Bernadette lived, don't you think? Jean points out he was having adjustment problems before she died - but his mother was helping him through it while she lived.
Jean, you always force me to go back and reread to be sure of what I read the first time. Tennessee asked Sullivan two questions - questions that no one has asked him - why did he leave Africa and return now - and why did he leave Boston when he did.
On rereading his answers to her questions - I've got two questions for Sullivan. How do you know that Natalie was not driving the car? Ella, have you ever considered that Doyle was not lying as you assume he was? You chose not to believe him. So did everyone else. His career was over...he wasn't reelected, his plans to run for governor were over. What if he gave it all up by telling the truth?
The other question - and I think it's important because it says a lot about Sullivan's character. Why was he "skimming" - "stealing" as he tells Tennessee. Why was he watering down the scarce anti-retroviral drug dosages in Africa in order to produce a bit more than would have been available had he not? Deb, the author let us know, through Sullivan, that "Tip was not the only one in the family with a grasp of basic science - it was perfectly clear to him that they allow for a certain amount of waste in each dosage"... maybe it was not as dangerous as it sounded on first reading?
ps Andy, I removed your extra-quote post for you...by pressing the "remove" button next to the "modify" button...
Post by: ANNIE on June 20, 2012, 12:26:55 PM
Sullivan assumed that he was driving and in the next paragraph he explains why:
"I always drove. She would have been sleeping. If it was dark and we were in the car, then Natalie was sleeping. There was a story that I was sick that night or I'd had too much to drink and she was taking me home."
Evidently the press chose to challenge the Mayor when he claimed that Natalie was driving. His faithful PD chose not to change the story but for some reason, the public chose to believe the press. (Have we never heard that the media is runs the world?) Fair and balanced? Haha!
You pose an interesting question, JoanP, "Do we believe that Doyle was telling the truth from the beginning and let his dreams of climbing the ladder of politics to save Sullivan, his first son??" [/b]
I spent yesterday rereading the from Chap 1 to Chap 6. There so many things that I didn't remember reading before.
I do agree with the fact that the book takes place in Boston, a big busy city and that maybe Tennesee and Kenya weren't noticed by the Doyles but, there is another reason hinted at here. And that is because they are black.
There are hints in all over the beginning chapters concerning that possibility. And of course, I can only find one now. I think its been all the teaching of how to act by Tennessee. Remembering one here: "Don't stare at objects! People will think you are going to steal it." She is constantly saying this kind of thing while raising Kenya.
Quote
I think you may be describing Ann Patchett's style with this observation. She's not going to tell us much about what her characters are thinking - or even what she, as the author, thinks of them. She makes the reader observe what they are doing, what they are saying - their actions speak for them. We're not going to get explanations or interpretations from Ms. Patchett.
JoanP, maybe that's why we are reading and rereading chapters and paragraphs and sentences now. The author's every word must be considered. :D
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Post by: bookad on June 20, 2012, 02:14:14 PM
....also Sullivan joked that all the money he made by having created more medication vials.... he was in a fashion helping the economy by putting that money back into the economy by all his purchases.
interesting that he ended up in the country where the boys ancestor`s came from though
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 20, 2012, 10:48:00 PM
Perhaps he is depressed. Old age, the inability to be of any use to anyone. As for the healing of the women, he didn't believe he had anything to do with it - "if he was right and God showed his face to the living then it was the surgeons to whom we should offer our novenas."
Don't you think we all lose our faith at times in our lives, we question.
Post by: Steph on June 21, 2012, 08:38:28 AM
Post by: Babi on June 21, 2012, 08:47:15 AM
to offer the child the easy manner, the hugs and kiss she so badly needs. I can’t really fault Tip
and Teddy too much at this point, tho’. They are having to deal with the shock of discovering
their birth mother has been watching them all these years. And what are her motives? They
adored Bernadette and are not happy with this intrusion, tho’ they are trying to be very generous
and helpful with Kenya.
To Kenya...”It was Sullivan’s ease she found so mesmerizing, the way he told the truth about everything, even if it meant showing himself in a poor light.” Sullivan is, I think, undergoing his own 'sea change’ in this story.
John Sullivan, priest, is so real, so human, and all the more a saint for not believing
for a minute that he is. An old man most of us can relate to, don’t you think. “Little Johnny
Sullivan, the fastest Catholic boy the South End had ever seen, climber of trees and chain link
fences.....now weighed out the benefits and perils of walking five feet across the linoleum and wisely decided against it.” We can all relate to that, can't we?
Steadfastly denying the claims that his touch or his prayers had healed anyone! He didn’t even pray for healing, he prayed for their peace. When the bishop came to the nursing home’to inquire as to the report of a disappearing neck cancer , Father John could only say is ‘How do I know where it went? It’s not as if I had it in my chair.”
Post by: ANNIE on June 21, 2012, 10:40:20 AM
I also can't picture the boys as black and found my mind pictures them as white. Is there something wrong with my brain?? I actually have to remember they are black and then re-picture them. Maybe not as the little boys but as the grown men they have become.
Post by: JoanP on June 21, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
He left Africa in a hurry - but there are no signs that he was prosperous. He left with nothing but his computer and very few articles of clothing. He admits that he was making money by "skimming" - but the question needs an answer, I think. WHat was he doing with the money?
Do you remember the author's State of Wonder - nother of Patchett's novels that deals with pharmacology. She does a lot of research for her novels...also spends time in Africa, the Amazon... She names the drug that Sullivan was diluting - Retrovir. I looked it up, it's real, not fiction. There are Google articles on the dosage amounts - and how they will vary according to the HIV patient - amounts for children, for pregnant women, how ill the patients. I get the feeling that she knows what she's talking about when she refers to this drug.
So the question is - was Sullivan behaving wrecklessly? His conscience doesn't seem to bother him about this- although we are told he has trouble sleeping...
”
Quote
It was Sullivan’s ease she found so mesmerizing, the way he told the truth about everything, even if it meant showing himself in a poor light.”
Babi, a good point - and only seems to emphasize the question - does this man who is so forthcoming with the truth likely to be putting the lives of so many sick people in jeopardy for profit?
Will be right back - You bring up so many good points...though I think we are still asking more questions than finding answers!
Post by: JoanP on June 21, 2012, 12:08:29 PM
I've been wondering about Ann Patchett's knowledge of Boston - and Catholicism. Whether she researched so thoroughly that we don't question that she knows what she is talking about. This morning I did some research and found this interview in the London Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3667169/Intimate-portraits.html) that answers many of the questions we've had about this author. The interview took place just after Run was published. I'll just quote the part about "miracles" - but you'll want to read more, I'm sure:
"Her parents divorced, and when she was six she and her sister were taken to Nashville with their mother
Patchett suggests another reason for her early resolve to be a writer. Between the ages of six and 18 she attended a Roman Catholic girls' school in Nashville,
She says that Catholicism, her father's faith, nourished her imagination. 'I grew up with the vocabulary of miracles. Water turns into wine every single Sunday and the bread turns into flesh. I like the idea of living in that world, where you think those possibilities are real. It teaches you to see outside of what you can actually see.'"
Patchett suggests another reason for her early resolve to be a writer. Between the ages of six and 18 she attended a Roman Catholic girls' school in Nashville,
She says that Catholicism, her father's faith, nourished her imagination. 'I grew up with the vocabulary of miracles. Water turns into wine every single Sunday and the bread turns into flesh. I like the idea of living in that world, where you think those possibilities are real. It teaches you to see outside of what you can actually see.'"
"John Sullivan, priest, is so real, so human, and all the more a saint for not believing for a minute that he is." Babi - I love this! The poor man - he has no where to go, this is his home, but he finds no peace because of the growing publicity. Even young Teddy is convinced- not only that he has cured these women, but that he can cure his mother if he will just to the hospital and lay his hand on her. How can he deny Teddy's request?
Post by: JoanP on June 21, 2012, 12:11:31 PM
Quote
"I also can't picture the boys as black and found my mind pictures them as white."Annie, I don't think there is anything wrong with your mind, but DO think that Ann Patchett has accomplished what she set out to do...
Reread Chapter 8 - the "conversation" - I think you'll get that mental image of Tennessee if you do.
Post by: Babi on June 22, 2012, 08:27:42 AM
notice the color of their skin, or the scar on their face, or any of the other little things that were
so noticeable when they were strangers? Patchett is making us see all these different people
as individuals, as personalities, and we forget the differences.
A quick sidebar. The quick trip to the Moser apartment to pick up clothes for Kenya revives memories for Bernard. Don’t you all remember the church spaghetti suppers? And the fish fries? Or the pancake breakfasts? And of course, the pot luck dinners, where every matron in the church brought one of her best dishes. Catholic, Methodist, charismatic, whatever!
What did you think of Tennessee’s opinions of Bernard Doyle? Though she had never even spoken with him, he was closely observed over years. “She could tell his moods were
consistent for the most part and that he was fair.” He demonstrated in small ways his tenderness and love for the adopted boys. “He never pandered to the boys, he wasn’t trying to make them into friends instead of sons, but he was proud of them......and they had grown up in the light of his pride.” All in all, a man I’d like and be glad to know.
Post by: Steph on June 22, 2012, 09:13:42 AM
Post by: Ella Gibbons on June 22, 2012, 10:18:16 AM
Post by: ANNIE on June 22, 2012, 11:13:44 AM
Joanp, I did reread chap 8 and could only find that Tennessee was tall, 3 sizes bigger than the ghost Tennessee, had lighter skin.
The only description of her face was the one given after the car hit her when she had an awful cut on her forehead.
I am sure glad that I am not the only one who pictured the boys as white.
Post by: bookad on June 22, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
Deb
Post by: JoanP on June 22, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
I am in thé car on my cell- keyboard too small - more later!
Post by: bookad on June 22, 2012, 01:22:59 PM
do not follow instructions well I guess
but thanks for the reminder
Post by: Steph on June 23, 2012, 08:37:09 AM
Father Sullivan is interesting to me. He is so upset about the women and their miracles.. He seems to actualy be embarassed.
Post by: Babi on June 23, 2012, 08:44:03 AM
end of life, to recognize more clearly it's beauty and meaning. He had not lost faith
in God, he simply a few things differently.
My favorite part of the book, the run. I swear, I felt as uplifted and free reading this as if I
were running myself. For a while, I ran all over the campus with my roommate, until the dorm
mother ‘suggested’ that was unladylike and we should stop. I certainly was no racer, but I
loved the freedom of running. Kenya was fantastic. “They were no longer waiting to see how fast she could go. Now they wanted to see how long it would be before she crashed, and if that was what they were waiting for they might as well sit down and get comfortable.”
You know, the one part of this book I don’t like was the extraneous twist to the plot, of
discovering the Kenya is not really this woman’s daughter. She is the mother of the boys,
but Kenya was the child of her best friend...the real 'Tennessee Moser’. So Kenya is not
really the boy’s sister. What was the point of all this? No one ever learns that fact; it has
no impact on the plot. Why include it? If Kenya had learned of it she would have been
devastated.
Post by: marjifay on June 23, 2012, 01:22:02 PM
I guess I read too many detective novels, where if something odd is casually mentioned, you can be fairly sure it is a clue will be explained later on in the story.
And what about the title, "Run." Altho I liked the part where Kenya ran, it was at the end of the book, almost as an afterthought. Did the theme of running have anything to do with the main story? Couldn't it just as well have been titled, "Doyle's Family." Or, how about
"Doyle's Black Family"? lol.
Marj
Post by: JoanP on June 23, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
I'm incline to believe that Tennessee is delirious, hallucinating following her surgery. Her friend, the real Tennessee Moser is on her mind - for good reason. I'd think we'd all be concerned if we thought there was a possibility of dying without revealing to the child her true identity. On the other hand, the real Tennessee has died too. Do you think that this Tennessee owes Kenya an explanation?
Babi, I can think of one reason why Ann Patchett may have included this "twist" - but want to see what others think before I say it. I think she's saying something about what makes a family. Is it blood ties - or something else?
Post by: JoanP on June 23, 2012, 05:54:47 PM
We still have a few more chapters to go. While I agree with you, the main reason for the title seems to be the act of "running"...the author raises more questions about where one is running, or running from. I'm thinking of Tip ...and Teddy...and Kenya. I guess we know what Sullivan is running. The question is - will he ever stop and live his life?
Since we have some time to go before the end of this two week discussion, let's slow down and discuss Chapter 10 separately from the final chapter, which is sort of an epilogue.
I've tweaked the schedule a bit to reflect this change. Of course you can always look back at previous chapters to post anything that you think reflects what Ann Patchett was trying to convey with this novel.
Thanks everyone - you've been great!
Post by: JoanP on June 23, 2012, 05:58:11 PM
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Everyone is welcome
RUN by Ann Patchett
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/run/run cover.jpg) | Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection. "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser) And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children." |
*********************************************************************************
| Discussion Schedule: June 15~17Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 June 21-24 Chapters 7-9 June 25-26 Chapters 10 June 27-30 Chapter 11 and final thoughts |
Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 30
Chapter 11 and Final Thoughts
June 15 - 30
Chapter 11 and Final Thoughts
1. Father Sullivan played a pivotal role in deciding the statue's owner and dividing the family. Did he continue to play a significant role in the book? What would the book have looked like without him?
2. Understandable that Teddy would feel guilt and the need to do penance for both Tennessee's death and his uncle's collapse, but why did Tip feel so much guilt that he went to Med school for his penance? What made him decide to go back to ichthyology on his graduation day?
3. Did Tip expect that Doyle would give him the statue for a graduation present? How did you react to his decision to bestow the heirloom statue on Kenya, a girl who has literally shared nothing with his former wife, Bernadette? Do you think he made the same decision his wife would have made?
4. Towards the end of the story we see images of four mothers (including the Virgin Mary) on Kenya's dresser. What is the author saying about women and mothers to have them all there together?
5. The boys kept finding similarities in their "sister" Kenya – when the fact was…she wasn't related at all. Even Doyle was noticing the physical similarities….were they seeing it because of suggestion?
6. Did you squirm at the idea that Kenya will never know that Tennessee was not her mother or did this lack of information fit in with Ann Patchett's purpose? What is she saying about nature and nurture here?
7. What is the author's underlying message here? Is she presenting a new definition of family, a commentary on socioeconomics or something totally different?
8. Run includes several incidences of doubling—two brothers who get adopted, two mothers who die, two men named Sullivan, two Tennessee Alice Mosers, two accidents involving hospital stays. What is the effect of seeing similar characters and events repeated over the course of the book?
9. Of the many characters in Run, which did you feel most connected to on an emotional level? How do you explain that connection?
10. Are you satisfied with how the author tied up the issues of race, family, parental responsibilities? What would you want changed or delved in to with greater depth?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net),
Post by: marjifay on June 23, 2012, 10:04:19 PM
Year, Joan, I think you're right-- that's what the author was trying to convey about Doyle's thinking as a lawyer. Would have helped if she'd written something like, "but that's just the lawyer in Doyle's head speaking." I guess I like things in black and white. Perhaps that why I don't care much for most poetry. lol.
I'm not so sure about Doyle not being one to lie. Didn't he tell people that Natalie (think that was her name), and not Sullivan was the driver of the car in which Natalie was killed?
Marj
Post by: marcie on June 24, 2012, 12:06:14 AM
Bernadette WAS the mother of the two black boys. That's how they felt about her.
Tennessee Moser's friend who raised her baby, Kenya, WAS the mother of Kenya.
Post by: Babi on June 24, 2012, 08:53:09 AM
There is Doyle trying to persuade one of his sons to enter politics and 'run' for office.
There is Sullivan, on the run from his past, until he can come to terms with it.
I love that summation of Patchett's: "Sullivan is obviously not going to be the
fulfillment of Doyle’s political dreams. Tip was never going to pull his head out
of the aquarium long enough to vote, much less run, and Teddy , Teddy had all the
political acumen of a Koala.”
Another insight into Sullivan. “This business of coming back to take your little part in the play you would never again be the star of was simply more than anyone should have to bear.” Much as he loved the little boys, he was no longer the star of his world.
Interesting thought, JOANP. I'm looking forward to your conclusions on that. I'd
like to think there was a purpose in that 'twist'. It occurs to me, though, that the
police would not necessarily have to lie about what they found. If both driver and
passenger were flung from the car, depending on where and how they landed, it might
not have been clear who was driving.
Post by: Steph on June 24, 2012, 09:48:01 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 24, 2012, 10:13:37 AM
Do you see any hope that Sullivan will find his way, without his father, without facing the truth?
As we read about Tip and Tedd, I'm seeing the same lack of real communication between father and sons. Marcie, do you see the story more about "mothering" than fathering? No matter how much time and attention Doyle gave to his sons, they didn't take the place of a mother.
Is Patchett saying something about the difference between mother-love and father-love? I'm asking this for personal reasons, having lost my own mother at a young age (7) with four younger siblings, we never had a stepmother - or an aunt, or any mother substitute - though my father, like Doyle, did his best.
When Kenya comes into the Doyles' home- during this brief 24 hour period, she seems to introduce something that has been missing. I'm trying to figure out what it is about her that makes all of them seem to take a second look as to how they are living their lives.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 24, 2012, 11:36:33 AM
. P uses short phrasing and questions to give us Kenya's excitement and awe.
But what was the long paragraph on pg 240 about the "cold" about?
I think the Tennessees conversation was delirium, a dream, but then, i'm an agnostic about an afterlife.
I don't like most of the characters of the story - in terms of wanting them for friends - other then Kenya. The men are boring, cold, silent and self-absorbed. Kenya brings them enthusiasm and emotion and another way to see the world. Isn't that what our grandchildren do for all of us?
Tip's surprise that Kenya does not know about Thoreau the way he does and his recognition that K's life has been very different from his is brilliant. I would start every semester with my students saying "each of you has had different experiences in your life and therefore has different knowledge and information in your computer brains. Don't let your mind say to yourself or to another 'you don't know that!?! Boy are you dumb/unsophisticated/illiterate (pick a negative word) ' Knowledge has little to do w/ stupidity or superiority. It has to do w/ what you have been exposed to in your life, sometimes by your choices, but often because of choices made by someone else."
Tip learns a great lesson that opens his mind to other possibilities.
It is a great lesson to the reader about the importance of diversity. If all the people around us are all reading, seeing, hearing, talking about and experiencing the same things we have a very narrow world and a narrow frame for understanding the world. Having to see different people's worlds helps us understand people and situations beyond our little box. Diverse classrooms and workplaces make us be in contact w/ people who have done, seen, experienced a different life than we have and therefore they have a different knowledge base in their brains then we do. That doesn't make them stupid, it makes them different. That's a plus, not a negative. They expand our world and our way of seeing the world, if we let them
Post by: Babi on June 25, 2012, 08:53:14 AM
themselves alert to the needs of others. Tip is wholly absorbed in his work, which
could certainly be boring to everyone else around him. I don't think he's uncaring;
just not very demonstrative. Also, somewhat resentful of his father's constant
attempts to interest him in politics.
I do admire your introductory speech to you students. You made a very important point,
right up front. I can remember when my children first met a youngster who had great
difficulties in learning. My son was somewhat scornful, until I pointed out to him
that this boy had to work ten times as hard as they did for everything he learned, and
he deserved far more credit for all that he did learn. After that, they behaved toward
him with much more respect and friendliness.
JOAN, I suspect any household that suddenly included a unknown 'sister', with a
very different background, and introducing another 'mother' into their awareness,
is bound to force some review of their own outlook on life.
Then, the death of that birth mother, and the death of John Sullivan, resulted in feelings of guilt
in the two young men that changed their career decisions. Teddy's interest in people and concern for them makes him popular in the political arena. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
And Tip resolves to give up his beloved fish and become a doctor. A decision which makes him
utterly miserable, and I was glad when he decided not to continue down that road.
Post by: Steph on June 25, 2012, 09:01:01 AM
Post by: marjifay on June 25, 2012, 12:09:58 PM
I really like that, Jean. David Foster Wallace gave a great commencement address to some college students that you might find interesting. He talks about how people tend to operate on their default setting, the unthinking self. You can find it by googling "David Foster Wallace's Kenyon Commencent Speech, 2005." I liked it so much that I have decided to read some of Wallace's work. (He was an award winning author and English Professor at Pomona College, CA. Sadly, he killed himself not long ago at age 46 after suffering from years of depression.)
Marj
Post by: ANNIE on June 25, 2012, 12:39:11 PM
One of my favorite parts of the book starts on pg.221 when Kenya and Tip go to the Museum of Comparative Zoology on Harvard's campus. Her unexpected interest in fishes surprised Tip but first he had to succumb to her Girl Scout care for his hyerthermia. She is such a nice surprise for Tip. I loved the way she arranged a way for them to peruse the lab with Tip riding in his chair and trying to keep the leg's chair going in the same direction and putting the fish jars back where they belonged. Didn't he promise to take her to Brazil with him when he went to search for more undiscovered fish?
Post by: JoanP on June 25, 2012, 03:14:29 PM
It was difficult to read your posts at the end of each day and to try to post back using only the iPad keyboard, so will try to catch up some today. I missed you all!
Post by: JoanP on June 25, 2012, 03:33:47 PM
I'm wondering now about your thoughts about Fr. Sullivan and how those two women were "healed."
Post by: JoanP on June 25, 2012, 04:03:25 PM
Kenya has been cold, really cold and tense since the previous night, crouching with her mother in the snow after the accident...cold in the hospital, cold in the Doyles' third floor bedroom, cold back in her own apartment when she picked up her things. Now she's freezing in her little jacket as she walks painfully slow with Tip on his crutches. Can't you just feel her relief when she hits the track and begins to run -
"Anger and sadness and a since of injustice that was bigger than ony one thing that had happened stoked an enormous fire in her chest and that fire kept her heart vibrant and hot and alive..."
Running is her passion - filling a need. Tip is there watching her, remembering how he used to run. Why has he stopped? Teddy was a runner too. Aside from that, do Tip and Teddy seem to have much in common?
Do you find Patchett explaining more the differences between Teddy and Tip than their similarities? And Kenya, is she more alike these two than she is different? Is this intentional on Patchett's part?
Annie, the two of them in the Harvard campus museum was quite moving wasn't it? Especially when Tip is surprised that Kenya is asking him questions that no one else ever has. She's impressed with his knowledge (no one else is) and impressed with the size of the museum's collection of fishes. As he is.
Back in a bit - it's good to be home.
Post by: bookad on June 25, 2012, 09:18:49 PM
Deb
Post by: Steph on June 26, 2012, 08:15:49 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 26, 2012, 08:52:56 AM
I wondered why I never heard of it..Good for you in locating a copy, Deb. I'm going to check our library today.
Quote
"Patchett wants you to discover what you think of what she writes. She does not explain.. She expects you to run along with her."
Love the way you put that, Steph! :D. I'm "running" right along with her much of the time, but really need to hear what you thought has happened in the hospital room with Fr. Sullivan when he touches Tennessee's leg? I thought he was going to die then, too, Babi- but what actually happened? Was Patchett being amiguous here, or were we to believe that he experienced someting akin to a miracle?
Post by: Babi on June 26, 2012, 09:35:01 AM
decision to go to medical school, as a sort of atonement. I was so relieved when he
returned to his first love, the fishes. Kenya was a constant surprise; so multi-faceted.
JOANP, I do hope Dad put up a tent for the outdoor party. And a chair by the cotton
candy machine...not too close. I'm amazed you were able to do that. I can get tired
just tromping around a dept. store.
Actually, I though John Sullivan had died that day, too, but apparently he lived for a while
longer. My impression from the events of that day was that when he touched Tennessee to
pray for her, he knew she was dying. The strain caused him to collapse for a short while, but
as soon as he recovered he tried to send Teddy to alert the doctor that Tennesse needed
immediate help. But Teddy was so absobed in his guilt over his uncle's collapse that he
couldn't understand what he was saying. He assumed the old mand was confused and just kept insisting that he rest. By the time John Sullivan made him understand, it was already too late
to save Tennessee. All of which, of course, contribued to the huge sense of guilt that turned
him away from his old plans and into politics.
A final observation..
“Politics, just at the moment that Teddy had finally picked it up, had ceased to be his father’s driving interest. He had Kenya’s spring meets now, her fall meets, her state championships.” Is this a pattern for Bernard Doyle? When Sullivan disappointed, he turned his attention to the boys. When they no longer needed his 'steering’ of their careers, he found an outlet for his supervisory energies in Kenya. He needs to be involved; he needs to be a director. That’s not a bad thing, but I wonder how he will cope when no one needs his support and 'help' any more.
Post by: Steph on June 27, 2012, 08:13:35 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 27, 2012, 08:21:08 AM
No Babi - no trees and no tent for shelter. Though the cotton candy machine was hot, there was a breeze and the looks on the faces of those little kids they watched me fluff up the confection made it all bearable. I felt like their fairy godmother or something. Two hours in the sun - no shade, no sunscreen and no sunburn either! That was a miracle of sorts, wasn't it?
Quote
"My impression from the events of that day was that when he touched Tennessee to
pray for her, he knew she was dying."
OKay, I understand that Fr. Sullivan was overcome with the surprise and the joy of meeting Tennessee again and really wanted to give her some comfort. But how did he know she was dying? I remember reading that he wanted Teddy to find her doctor so that he could "cut out" whatever was inside her. How did he know that? I also remember that he realized at that moment that he really had "helped" the two women who claimed he had cured them. Obviously he doesn't believe he can cure Tennessee - that's why he wanted a doctor to see her. But what do you think Ann Patchett intended for us to think happened at that moment?
Post by: JoanP on June 27, 2012, 08:38:44 AM
I was thinking about what Babi wrote yesterday about Doyle's need to direct and wondering how he would cope when no one needs his "help" any more...Ann Patchett has really made these characters come alive, hasn't she? At first I was seeing them as stereotypes and was willing to accept that, but here we are talking about how they will do in the future, after we have closed the book and there is no longer a novelist writing the story.
I want to know about Sullivan. Do you think he will find his way? Remember when he said that he hated coming home, how tired he was of his family? He swore he'd only come back every ten years or so - and stay in a hotel when he did. Well, he's still home four years later. That implies that he's changed too.
Was it you, Marjifay who said a while back that you could not relate to any of these characters? Or was it Jean, who didn't like anyone except Kenya? I don't think they were very likeable either. Even Ann Patchett seemed to dislike them as they were. But do you still feel this way, or do you see a change in them that makes you reconsider?
Post by: JoanP on June 27, 2012, 08:52:59 AM
In the back of the paperback edition there are several questions for consideration - I've chosen a few of them to add to our questions in the heading at the top of this page. You may find them interesting.
The first one on the list got my attention, because we were left in the hospital room thinking that Father Sullivan was dying...the poor man, it would have been easier for him if he had. Why do you think Ann Patchett let him live? He is the character in the book that I can relate to - on several levels -
Here's the question - it really made me think of his role in the book:
Quote
"1. Father Sullivan played a pivotal role in deciding the statue's owner and dividing the family. Did he continue to play a significant role in the book? What would the book have looked like without him? "
What would the book have looked like without him?
Post by: Babi on June 27, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
passage. I did not find it surprising that John Sullivan could do that, though of
course most of us could not. I have become wholly convinced over my years that we
have minds that are capable of far more than we realize at present. Once we get over
our 'practical' mind-sets as to what is possible and what is not, I predict we will
blossom in a remarkable way.
Actually, I like all of them. They were real, they were individuals. I didn't find
it hard to accept each of them as they were, and each one of them grew and developed
throughout the events of this story.
Post by: mabel1015j on June 27, 2012, 12:50:49 PM
I may have missed it, but i'm not sure how different the story would be w/out John Sullivan. I'm not seeing that if that character wasn't in he book it would have made much difference to anyone but Teddy. I'm waiting for all of you opinions on that.
All in all i think the premise of the story had great possibilities, the elements she presents in the first 50 pages had the promise of great drama and conflict and insight..........i was very dsappointed. I was left wanting more depth. STEPH, i like your concept of Patchett's writing, i guess i want more from the writer, more flushing out of the story. Having us "run along w/ her" works o.k. when i'm reading w/ a book group where i can hear others analysis of the story. I still thought it left the story a little thin. I'd like to read the sequel. :D
Post by: ANNIE on June 27, 2012, 12:59:37 PM
I agree with you completely. The characters all had their part to play in the lives of their families and our author did a great job keeping them busy and much in our minds as she presented a dysfunctional family that I can certainly connect with. As aren't most families dysfunctional in some way or other??
As to what would the book look or read like without the Irish Uncle Sullivan?
Don't we all have relatives who play a bigger part in the life of a family than others? Our author didn't dwell on the aunts who wanted the statue but chose to make us aware of Father Sullivan. He was the peacemaker and possible miracle worker in the Doyle and Moser families.
I read an article somewhere that claims when the human race finally realizes how little of our brain is developed, they will realize that the body can heal itself if we just develop our brain further. Quite a premise. Hmmm, maybe?
Post by: Steph on June 28, 2012, 08:34:06 AM
Post by: JoanP on June 28, 2012, 10:37:39 AM
Maybe if we consider the story in terms of the 24 hour period in which the story takes place, we get more of an idea of just how much happened. Rather than find the plot "thin" we may have to consider whether it is believable that so much happened during this short period. Did this child, no matter how exceptional, beautiful and swift, really have the power to bring about so much change in all of the adults with whom she came into contact?
Father Sullivan's role in the story - how important was he? How different would the story have been without him? Annie describes him as "the peacemaker" - but when you think back to the dispute over Bernadette's family heirloom, there was no longer peace in the extended family. Fr. Sullivan did not insert himself in the argument - he was called upon to make the decision, after which the aunts are no longer heard from. They were not present in the lives of their sister's boys as they grew up in a home without a mother or a woman's presence, though the statue looked over them...
Do you remember whose idea it was for the feeble priest to brave the snowstorm to come to the hospital? It was Teddy's, wasn't it? He wants Fr. Sullivan to heal the woman he now knows is his mother. (Would Teddy have done this, had he not known she was his mother? I guess that's another story - one that we would have to write ourselves.)
Quote
9. Of the many characters in Run, which did you feel most connected to on an emotional level? How do you explain that connection?
I'm going to choose Father Sullivan...because he doesn't realize his power, his power to heal, his power to bring people together - realizing too late that he might have done more good while he lived. Isn't that something we all fear - that we aren't doing enough with our lives while we are still able?
Post by: ANNIE on June 28, 2012, 07:25:43 PM
Post by: Babi on June 29, 2012, 08:51:00 AM
simply a matter of meeting Kenya for the first time, I doubt she would have made that much of an imprint. But it must have shaken them all up a great deal to discover the boys birth mother had been so close all those years, and that this child was a sister who had a very different life. Yes, I think all of them would find those 24-hour events made a definite change in their lives.
You ask how important was Father Sullivan's role. Yet he is the character you feel
most connected with. How much would be missing from the book if he was not there?
Between him, Teddy and Kenya herself, I don't know if I could choose my favorite.
As to 'connected', Father Sullivan and Teddy are so much alike in character that I
feel I can choose them both.
Post by: JoanP on June 29, 2012, 09:29:49 AM
From the git go - that very first night, the boys kept finding similarities in their "sister" – when the fact was…she wasn't related at all. Even Doyle was noticing the physical similarities….were they seeing it because of suggestion? Would they have noted these similarities if she hadn't told them Tennessee was Teddy and Tip's mother?
Did you squirm at the idea that Kenya will never know that Tennessee was not her mother or did this lack of information fit in with Ann Patchett's purpose? What is she really saying about nature and nurture here?
Babi - interesting that you see Teddy and Father Sullivan alike. Do you see differences between the two? What would Father Sullivan have said to you if you told him that?
Post by: Steph on June 29, 2012, 10:04:03 AM
Post by: mabel1015j on June 29, 2012, 12:15:07 PM
Joan asks -Maybe if we consider the story in terms of the 24 hour period in which the story takes place, we get more of an idea of just how much happened. Rather than find the plot "thin" we may have to consider whether it is believable that so much happened during this short period. Did this child, no matter how exceptional, beautiful and swift, really have the power to bring about so much change in all of the adults with whom she came into contact?
I guess my question to Patchett would be "why did you place the story in a 24 hr period?" joan is right, that may be my problem w/ the story, thinking it too "thin".
Jean
Post by: ANNIE on June 29, 2012, 03:36:57 PM
Hmmm, even when she runs at the Harvard track, we don't get a picture of her.
So all that she has for us comparing to Tip and Teddy, is her slimness and her height. Do you suppose Kenya had the same father that the boys had? That would be Ebee and he sounds like he would have skedaddled as soon as he saw that baby.
When Tennessee Alice Moser appears to and talks to the boys' mother, they talk about how much Kenya looks and acts like this ghost, Tennessee. But they don't mention the girl's height which she didn't get from her mother who was very short compared to her friend, Tenessee.?
Post by: JoanP on June 29, 2012, 06:10:31 PM
Q: Why did you decide to compress the action of this novel into twenty-four hours, an exceedingly short period of time by novel standards?
A: For all of the characters in the book this car accident set in motion a series of life-changing events. They were all so overwhelmed by what was happening that I never found a point at which I could take a break from the action and say, "Three days later . . . " Because Sullivan has jet lag and Tennessee is in the hospital, their sense of time is shaken up. It meant that at least one of the characters was awake through the entire 24 hour period. By switching the point of view from person to person I could keep the story going around the clock.
This is fiction and it is a good story - but do you think something like this could happen in real life? Could one action trigger so many changes and realizations? All I can think is that the car accident started something during the 24 hour period that followed - when it came out that Tennessee is the boys' mother - every thing else happened gradually in the years that followed. One shocking incident can set later events in motion...
Post by: JoanP on June 29, 2012, 06:32:45 PM
It sounds as if you are saying that you see no real physical resemblance, but that Kenya shares the same passions {running} and interests {music, fish} as the boys. Does this mean that you are coming down on the side of "nature" as opposed to "nurture"? Does anyone think that Tennessee was nurturing, was teaching Kenya to love the same things she knew the boys loved?
What do you think Ann Patchett was telling us here?
Post by: marcie on June 30, 2012, 01:15:01 AM
I can't find my copy of the book right now (I have to find that library book!!) but I was wondering if anyone else felt a sense of dread near the end of the book when Kenya was running in the parking lot and a car pulled out or there was some movement with a car (wish I could find the book!). It made me think that Kenya was going to be hit by the car. I was wondering if the author included that bit of tension on purpose. Did anyone else read it that way?
Post by: Steph on June 30, 2012, 08:42:07 AM
Post by: Babi on June 30, 2012, 09:41:18 AM
and I'm sure it is because both of them cared for other people. They were kindred souls,
regardless of the differences in dna. The one time Teddy failed to heed what John
Sullvian said was entirely due to his fear for his Uncle and his guilt over having
exposed him to danger. He could think of nothing else.
The business about 'Tennessee' not being Kenya's mother is the one part of this
story that, to me, does not fit at all. Everyone noticed the physical resemblance. As
I said before, what earthly purpose did this digression serve? I would like to hear
Patchett's explanation on that.
It appears we all have a question or two we'd like to have Patchett explain. :)
Post by: mabel1015j on June 30, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
Jean
Post by: Steph on July 01, 2012, 09:42:19 AM
Post by: JoanP on July 01, 2012, 11:09:38 AM
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Everyone is welcome
RUN by Ann Patchett
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/run/run cover.jpg) | Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm. It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons, whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection. "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family. It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser) And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition, Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics. The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children." |
*********************************************************************************
| Discussion Schedule: June 15~17Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 June 21-24 Chapters 7-9 June 25-26 Chapters 10 June 27-30 Chapter 11 and final thoughts |
Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 30
Chapter 11 and Final Thoughts
June 15 - 30
Chapter 11 and Final Thoughts
1. Father Sullivan played a pivotal role in deciding the statue's owner and dividing the family. Did he continue to play a significant role in the book? What would the book have looked like without him?
2. Understandable that Teddy would feel guilt and the need to do penance for both Tennessee's death and his uncle's collapse, but why did Tip feel so much guilt that he went to Med school for his penance? What made him decide to go back to ichthyology on his graduation day?
3. Did Tip expect that Doyle would give him the statue for a graduation present? How did you react to his decision to bestow the heirloom statue on Kenya, a girl who has literally shared nothing with his former wife, Bernadette? Do you think he made the same decision his wife would have made?
4. Towards the end of the story we see images of four mothers (including the Virgin Mary) on Kenya's dresser. What is the author saying about women and mothers to have them all there together?
5. The boys kept finding similarities in their "sister" Kenya – when the fact was…she wasn't related at all. Even Doyle was noticing the physical similarities….were they seeing it because of suggestion?
6. Did you squirm at the idea that Kenya will never know that Tennessee was not her mother or did this lack of information fit in with Ann Patchett's purpose? What is she saying about nature and nurture here?
7. What is the author's underlying message here? Is she presenting a new definition of family, a commentary on socioeconomics or something totally different?
8. Run includes several incidences of doubling—two brothers who get adopted, two mothers who die, two men named Sullivan, two Tennessee Alice Mosers, two accidents involving hospital stays. What is the effect of seeing similar characters and events repeated over the course of the book?
9. Of the many characters in Run, which did you feel most connected to on an emotional level? How do you explain that connection?
10. Are you satisfied with how the author tied up the issues of race, family, parental responsibilities? What would you want changed or delved in to with greater depth?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net),
Post by: JoanP on July 01, 2012, 12:28:24 PM
Let's try to finish up this discussion, tie up loose ends and then prepare a list of questions for the author for Deb to take down to the Parnassas book store in Nashville in September. I think we all have some questions we'd like her to address. If she consents, maybe we can reopen this discussion here in Seniorlearn - and invite her to join us. What do you think of that?
Maybe you have been reading of the devastating storms that have been causing so much damage from the midwest to the Washington Metro area and then up the East Coast during the last few days. I've just learned these storms have a name - "derecho" and produce destruction very much like tornadoes. The noise of the wind, 70-80 mph - not really howling, but sounding more like a locomotive coming right at you - sustained wind for hours, as everything in its path flew around while sustained lightening lit up the whole yard as if it was the middle of the day - this was at 10:30 at night. I never saw anything like this - and hope never again.
We watched grand old oak trees over 150 years old swaying in the back yard as if they were reeds of grass. Many in the neighborhood came down, taking out power lines. traffic lights... They just announced that there are still 42,000 households here in Arlington without power -- without air conditionning and the temp is heading right back up to 100 degrees again today.
To add to the loss of power, the land line telephone went out. That has NEVER happened, but it did yesterday and the day before.
Imagine my surprise when I went to use the cell phone - only to learn that the ATT tower was also out and was unable to make or receive any calls on that.
Even when the power was eventually restored, still couldn't connect to the Internet because Verizon was out too - that meant the router that connects to the NET was not available either - even though the power was on.
We felt isolated until son drove over to see how we were doing - (he couldn't call) to see if we needed to come to his house to cool off. By that time, our power was back. His son, my nine year old grandson, had been at his first cub scout camp out - three hours away - in a rather flimsy little tent. They had herded the kids into the mess hall for some protection from the storm - and then, when the wind and rain stopped, since there was so much destruction in the campsite, they started driving them home - at about 3 am. You should hear this kid's stories! He had a great time. The rest of us were worried sick and unable to make any contact with the camp or with one another to hear if the storm hit that far to the west. It had.
It's selfish to complain -so many lost so much - there were 18 lives lost, cars crushed by falling trees - one poor woman asleep in her house as a tree crashed through the roof.
I hope you are all safe and sound this morning. Back to the book, to make up for the lost time during the last two days...I've a few more questions for you.
Post by: JoanP on July 01, 2012, 12:56:24 PM
Marcie, your post reminded me of how I felt watching Kenya running in the parking lot when that car pulled out - I dreaded that Patchett was going to take Kenya from the story at that point, and leave the Doyles struggling to understand what had happened, returning to their former lives. Yes, I believe the author included that bit of tension on purpose! What do you think she achieved by suggesting Kenya might die at that point? (Have you found your library book yet?)
Post by: JoanP on July 01, 2012, 01:10:10 PM
Quote
" The business about 'Tennessee' not being Kenya's mother is the one part of this story that, to me, does not fit at all. Everyone noticed the physical resemblance. As I said before, what earthly purpose did this digression serve?" Babi
Quote
"I really believe that Patchett led us down the garden path with resemblences and then finding that Kenya is not in fact related to the boys at all." Steph
It seems that Babi and Steph are making the same point, asking the same question - Can any of you think of a possible answer explanation for this? Does it have something to do with Patchett's premise that a mother is not the one who gave you birth, but the mother who raised and nurtured you - which "Tennessee2 certainly did... Is that what she's trying to drive home with this introduction of a new mother? Tennessee2 was a much Kenya's mother as Bernadette was the mother to the two boys, no matter who birthed them.
But what is she saying of the relationship between the three boys and Kenya? None of them are blood-related to one another or to Sullivan and Doyle. Does this mean anything? Wait - Teddy and Tip are blood brothers - or ? Do they have the same father?
Post by: mabel1015j on July 01, 2012, 07:07:18 PM
for you and your family.
Post by: ANNIE on July 01, 2012, 10:49:08 PM
Post by: JoanP on July 02, 2012, 09:47:52 AM
What did you think of Doyle...he seems to be the one character that we can criticize. Patchett seems to cast him in a negative way, although we can all sympathize with him for the loss of his wife and the effort of raising the three boys. I'm still not clear about how the book's central idea— is "that of how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life," as the author explained in an interview. Here's what she said in an Interview regarding political responsibility - and Doyle...
Quote
Q: Can you describe how the book's central idea— that of how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life—first came to you?
A: I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility. I wonder about the idea of being so privileged that a person as smart as Tip would want to spend his days in the basement of a museum or someone as kind as Teddy wouldn't get farther than his uncle's room in a nursing home. Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? Doyle has very clear ideas about this, both for himself and for his sons, but when he's asked to take in a stranger (and a pretty appealing little stranger at that) he doesn't want to do it. These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with.
Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children.
What do you think? I'm trying to put together a list of the questions you'd like to include for Ann Patchett. Please do post whatever comes to mind.
Post by: JoanP on July 02, 2012, 09:52:15 AM
Run includes several incidences of doubling—two brothers who get adopted, two mothers who die, two men named Sullivan, two Tennessee Alice Mosers, two accidents involving hospital stays. What is the effect of seeing similar characters and events repeated over the course of the book? Can you understand Patchett's reason for the doubling?
Post by: ANNIE on July 02, 2012, 11:28:05 AM
So you also were without power? What never occurred to me was to take my computer with me when we left for the hotel. They had wifi!
I have no idea about the two's of the author. Just a gimmick? No, it seems she had a reason for each idea she presented to us. I am going to reccommend this book to my f2f group which meets this afternoon. We just finished "On Agate Hill" by Lee Smith.
Thanks for leading this short but sweet discussion and
now onto Great Expectations!![/b]
Post by: marcie on July 02, 2012, 05:55:44 PM
One more, I promise, this is the last question I have for you while you are still on the line...are you still on the line, or have you moved over to Great Expectations? :D
Run includes several incidences of doubling—two brothers who get adopted, two mothers who die, two men named Sullivan, two Tennessee Alice Mosers, two accidents involving hospital stays. What is the effect of seeing similar characters and events repeated over the course of the book? Can you understand Patchett's reason for the doubling?
JoanP, I'm not sure about the reasons for doubling the characters. I think that device made me pay a bit more attention to them and compare and contrast the characteristics of the doubles. Somehow doubling made the story feel richer.
Post by: JoanP on July 05, 2012, 09:53:21 AM
Quote
"I think that device made me pay a bit more attention to them and compare and contrast the characteristics of the doubles."
Marcie, your comment made me think of the doubling in a new way - and when I compared a contrasted each of the pairs, I realized that the pairs were quite different, though to the world, alike.
Tip and Teddy were twin brothers, sharing the same gene pool, and yet very different in their interests and values. Both of their "mothers" have died, yet it is Bernadette whose loss they mourn. Not their birth mother, but the one who "mothered" them from infancy, the only mother they do. Two women by the name of Tennessee - friends with a lot in common, except only one of them, is apparently a "mother", Kenya's mother. Kenya mourns the death of Tennessee, not her birth mother, but the one who mothered her. Two men named Sullivan...related by genetics and appearance, and yet so completely different -
And then there are the two accidents in the snowstorm, that determine the course of events, and the future for the entire "family."
It's been a good discussion - thanks to all of you who contributed in so many ways. I think we have some good questions to put in our letter to Ann Patchett, though I must say, you have answered many of them in your thoughtful posts!
We'll let you all know in the Library if Ann Patchett replies to our questions about this interesting book.
Post by: bookad on July 06, 2012, 07:26:04 AM
bit of off topic as I intended to post this to the 'Run' discussion but missed my opportunity as the site is not open
life has been a bit hectic with a week trip to Ottawa, and my other obligations upon arriving home
intend to go to Nashville this fall on our way to North Fort Myers and look up the book store Ann P has--really enjoy book stores so looking forward to this and hope to meet the author there
my thoughts on the book
-this book left my mind working overtime
-kept having to remind myself this book only encompassed 24 hours--so much action and reaction--made it very interesting.....found a bit let down by not being given insights into character's background and reasons for their behaviour (but then again life is not all cut and dry and often we don't know where someone's actions stem from, even if we are enlightened by their telling us..ego slants are often a factor with self pats on the back I would suppose)
'felt great empathy with Tip and his passion for a field of study (such intense interest, that I wish I had during my employment years)--am glad he was eventually able to come to grips with how his father regarded his future (totally outside his interests) and follow a path closer to his interests...working life is so many years to not have one's heart into a career (if such a career is possible) to me would be a very sad situation {my father whom I looked up to for so many years persuaded me to enter a career away from my passion of working with animals; then turned his back on me in his last years of life-which took me a good time to get over thinking of all those years working in a field I felt unsuited for; but needing to try and make him proud of me} c'est la vive!
--from reply 154--JoanP--interesting idea that Tennessee would consciously or subconsciously move Kenya toward the interests of her brothers--I could see that from the way T. was so determined to continue to follow her boys lives and keep them in view so to speak...though it is kind of creepy to visualize someone always around the corner and being unaware of outside total interests in all one's actions...creepy!
--from reply 155-marcia--I too found myself holding my breath not sure what a car pulling so close to someone was up about...
--I heard about the storm damage and wondered who might be in the midst of the turmoil the weather has caused...saw on our news some hydro men/women from Ontario & Quebec were down helping...its wonderful when we can support each other across the borders--hope you are all well and the storm did no major damage in your lives---what crazy weather patterns this planet has been having; but wonder if we are somewhat a fault for the changes to our planet's structure
enough said
it was a good read
and thank to our hosts
Deb