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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online ~ Starting March 3
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* Is most of your driving travel on the Interstates today?
* Are the backroads still drawn in blue on maps?
* When was the last time you drove on one?
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
March 3-7 Eastward (Part One)
Relevant Links:
Read Blue Highways Online (opening chapters) (http://nomadism.org/pdf/bluehigh.pdf);
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
Quotes noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 3-7 Part One Eastward
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
1. How much time did it take Bill Trogdon to get on the road from the time he lost his teaching job in Missouri? How well prepared was he? What did his packing list reveal about the kind of trip he was planning?
2. Have you ever taken an extended road trip? Will you tell us about it? How much preparation went into it? How did your trip differ from the author's? Were you trying to avoid the Interstates?
3. Least Heat-Moon, Eddie Short Leaf...Osage Indian names. What do you know of the Osage Indians living in Missouri. Least Heat-Moon says he's making the trip to find his roots. Do you think need a purpose if you plan to be on the road for a long time?
4. Is it at all clear why Heat-Moon chose this particular route? (See the interactive map (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm) of his trip. Why did he head East from Missouri? Why the circular route, avoiding the mid-section of the country? If you were to start out today, what direction, what route would you take?
5. Part One chronicles the Eastern route he followed the first week of his trip. This MAP (http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/4_bhr_p9_8_1x5--_Blue_Highways_mapIMG_3241_copy_2.jpg) might be easier to follow - since he backtracked, went out of his way by 45 miles, to find a place called Nameless, TN. What does this tell about his planned route?
6. Let's keep a list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal. (Just post your favorites and we'll add them to a list.)
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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Isn't this a perfect time for an imaginary (or real) road trip, with William Least Heat-Moon...as he heads his old truck east from Colombia, Mo, looking for spring. His wife had recently left him, and he has just been let go from his position as a professor of English at the University of Missouri. Was he going TO somewhere, or running FROM somewhere when he began his trip?
"I can't say, over the miles, that I had learned what I had wanted to know because I hadn't known what I wanted to know. But I did learn what I didn't know I wanted to know...."
Most libraries have a few copies of this book; you should find it available. Even if you are not interested in the book at this time, we look forward to your comments on the Osage Least Heat-Moon's travel journal, which may trigger your own memories of road trips in the past. We can use the book as a jumping-off point for such a travel discussion. Please do plan to join in!
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What a bummer. He completely missed Pennsylvania. In fact, he avoided most of the interior states.
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Fry, it sounds as if you've looked over the route map-
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
He made the quick decision to leave home when he lost his teaching position...home was in Columbia, Mo. I'm looking forward to learning how much planning went into that trip. I don't get the idea he knew where he was going when he set out.
I wouldn't feel too badly about PA. Most of the stops he didn't visit for more than a day, if that. Some he didn't even get out of the car. Had you heard of Least Heat-Moon when the book first came out? An unforgettable name, no?
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I have the book and am ready to do some armchair travelling.
Sally
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Great...looking forward to this, Sally, Fry Better than being out on the road this time of year. Can't believe the kids are going in two hours late here this morning...not even an inch of snow fell last night. Maybe it's slippery.
A question - does anyone have an old Rand McNally map with "blue" highways? I wonder when they stopped printing them blue...
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I hope to participate. I read the book when it first came out. I have a copy from the library and will try to read parts of it again.
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What an unusual name this author has.!! I have travelled a few Blue Highways 2001 and two later visits and enjoyed this book. Not being an American I found my large map of USA that hangs on my wall very helpful. Many interesting anecdotes he tells us of and there was a map of the route he travelled at the end of my edition on kindle and of course there is a huge amount of country not traversed by him. Icould find some of the Highways marked in blue on maps. Felt I had had to 'plough' my way to the end of Wives and Daughters so enjoyed this totally different story.
Will look forward to reading the discussions from March 1st.
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nlhome - happy to hear that you plan to join us. It will be interesting to hear your reaction to the book after having read it when it first came out.
And waafer, welcome! We'll look forward the hearing of your US road trips. Have you noticed the link to the interactive map of Least Heat-Moon's trip?
The author's name is quite interesting...he went by William Trogdon while teaching, right before the trip - "Along the journey, Trogdon re-examined his Osage roots and changed his name to that Indian name given by him at birth—William Least Heat Moon—not in rejection of his Anglo heritage, but rather as a celebration of both ancestries."
A friend of his, a Chippewa, wrote after reading the book, "Bill Trogdon, (his Anglo name); (his background is Anglo and Osage) —left on the trip, and Least Heat Moon came back."
How are you doing with Wives and Daughters, waafer? Still at the plow? :D
It certainly is a long book. Glad you are sticking with it.
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I'd like to join this group also. I am in the mood for some vicarious armchair traveling, have been cooped up by the weather too long. It looks wonderful. Never heard of half the places. I wonder if we'll find the "real" Kardashian less America.
The paperback is a very satisfying thing, nicely presented, kind of rough paper. Love it.
Am also thrilled to see the way the "chapters" are presented. Chapter 1 is one page and chapters 2 and 3 are a half page each. THIS I can do. hhahaaa
Am so looking forward to this!
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Ginny - great! Welcome! Welcome! "Vicarious armchair traveling!" As I read the opening chapters, I can't help but think how different it would be - for me - to travel alone as Least Heat-Moon is doing. I don't think I've ever travelled alone, but can see where it would be quite a different experience. I'm sure YOU will fill in some interesting experiences - which could not have taken place with husband at your elbow. I'm thinking of the conversations that would take place if travelling alone...
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I'll check in from time to time - although probably without the book.
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All right, Maryz! Bring your road atlas - if you have one! :D
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X I have the book. Not sure I'll read each and every word - but I'll enjoy reading the thoughts and impressions here of the different areas he travels through.
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I remember when Blue Highways came out back in the 1980’s.. And I remember talking about it with my dentist. His comment was "don't you think it's a bathroom book?" meaning that it was something to pick up and put down, but not a book to really get into. At the time I found it to be of little appeal.
Now it appeals to me more than it did when it first came out. At least the first 9 pages?/chapters? do. My library has the book. I hope it comes with an index. Now that I’ve travelled a little more, driven a few more byways, have read a few more books with interesting settings, I know that I at least want to look at it again -- to see some old familiar spots and no doubt find some new ones.
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A "bathroom book" now that's an idea, Pedln! In our house the "World Almanac" is the bathroom book of choice. :D
But I like the idea of picking and choosing chapters from this book...for those of us who are not about to commit to reading each and every word. There is plenty here to talk about...and opportunity to share similar experiences we find in the book. Remembering that the book was written in 1978...I suspect to find much has changed over the years out on the road. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe change has passed right over the people we'll meet in the out of the way towns on the little- travelled roads.
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Now that I've started reading, I find I'm really enjoying the book. I can't seem to limit myself to just a few chapters at a time, though.
It seems to me that each section of the book divides easily into "regional" discussions and the author is fairly clear about saying when he moves out of one region into another. It will be interesting to compare the differences along the "blue highways".
When was the last time you drove on one?
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
A few years ago, three friends and I went on several "blue highway" trips around Oklahoma. I do have pictures and I think some of them will fit into the discussion. How do I share them - when the time comes?
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Ooh, Callie, would love to see some of the photos! Are they digital...or paper prints?
I'm finding the book much more engaging than expected.
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This sounds like a lot of fun. Can't wait to see your pictures, Callie.
I have always meant to read this book after one of my good friends, mother of eight, read it right after it was published (in the 80's), when her children were in middle school and high school, and she said it was such a good book and she thought I would like it. So, I will be here on March 1st right after we see Mary(sister) off to her home in NC.
We just finished watching the most incredible closing of the Olympics. What a peace filled program. Just gorgeous with classical music and ballet dancers and floating sail boats and so much more. Hate to see another olympics close. But I was up this morning in time to see the last hockey game played and I am tired. Goodnight, all! :D :D
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Joan, I think I have the pictures on a cd - but I can scan the prints if necessary.
Please understand they aren't of any areas mentioned in the book - but, after we read descriptions of some of the places mentioned in the book, I think you might all enjoy them.
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Annie, happy to hear you'll be joining us. We had to miss the closing ceremonies...peace-filled, you say! Remembering the threats of violence before the games started, I'd say Russia did an outstanding job, from start to finish. It cost plenty - I see in this morning's paper that it was the most expensive Olympics in history. I hope the investment in Sochi pays off in the future.
Callie, if you can get the pix on CD, the next question - can you load them into Photobucket, Picasa or a similar site? If not, could you email them to me?
ps Annie, your friend, that mother of eight, was probably ready for a vicarious travel experience! ;)
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Joanp,Yes, it was not only peace filled but peaceful with a Russion reporter who lived in Chicago, the last time I had seen him (his name escapes me, maybe Posner or Poslner, have seen him before) interpreting each presentation of the arts and naming some of the writers that weren't mentioned on the stage. Especially pointing out how much ballet, classical musical, writing and painting means so much to the Russians. He also explained that this whole program was to let the world know that Russia has always been a very cultured country. You really need to see it and I think its being repeated on NBC.com/olympics or something like that. ;) It seemed like South Korea used the same folks,who designed the Russian theme, might have also designed S.K's . We were mesmerized for several hours. I don't remember seeing anything like this in the earlier closings.
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When are we going to get the reading schedule? Only 2 more days in this month!
Sally
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Oops. Sorry Sally! Busy winding up with Wives and Daughters. Mrs. Glaskell is slow to unravel her story...and it didn't help that she died before she finished writing it.
Will put up the schedule in five minutes!
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We're going to have to postpone the start of this discussion until Monday morning, March 3. Blame the limited 28 days in February. There was a domino effect on the whole schedule. More time for you to pack for the trip, right?
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I got the book from the library, and I'll be along for the ride. I like that map.
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Found it at Half Price book store - the cover looks different than the one in the heading but it is the same author. Hope this is not another route 66 tribute but we shall see what we shall see.
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I just got the book from the library, and am happy to see that there is an index. Haven't started reading yet. But I love that map, too, PatH. And already I'm wondering why he didn't include the Great River Road, coming out of Missouri. It's very blue.
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I was so pleased to find the map of his travels and after reading the book wondered how he could have missed so much BUT think he was escaping and just took really low Blue Highways. I agree "how could he have missed he Great River Road- From Terre Haute we drove over to stay a couple of days in Alton when we had read that the Eagles were down that way(think it was January) and after driving thru the Perre Marquette National Park we found we were able to book for a Road train the next day that took us into Bushland and we were able to observe the nEagles in their nests. Seems when it freezes up North they come down the Mississippi where they can fish for food.
From the Great River Road we took a short side turn into Elsa and found a beautiful church sitting there in a small village, just the setting for a good camera shot. Further on was a small town Grafton and will always remember 'Fish Inn' and the fish meal we had there. Further North we turned East but that is another story as we were going to Springfield Ill.
By travelling the Blue Highways, it meant we could stop and enjoy things along the way. I could not find all the Blue Highways on my wall map but maybe the numbers have been altered. Although I have read the book- am going to read it and follow the discussion.
In my travels every time we crossed the Mississippi I always asked my wonderful driver to 'STOP" so I could observe it all.
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I've started reading, but am still a little bummed that he apparently didn't see any of PA. Why mention New Freedom, PA in the intro if he didn't see any of PA? The map doesn't show him anywhere near New Freedom. Nevertheless, the book makes for very interesting reading.
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Somewhere - either in the book - or maybe in an interview since the book was published, he must have explained what he was thinking when he drew up his itinerary, don't you think? Keep your eyes open!
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I got the book on kindle and started reading it last night. I see I read much too far: he has me hooked.
My husband and I on Sunday used to drive the little farm roads near where we lived in Maryland. Our challenge was "to get lost". Of course, the more we did it, the harder it was to get lost, since we knew the roads better and better.
Our vacation planning went like this: "lets go North this time." The best time I remember on vacation was once when we stopped for a cup of coffee and wound up staying three days.
But we didn't get to talking to people the way LHM does. Now, when I go places with my son, Dan, he stops and talks to everyone.
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Good morning! We're getting socked in with yet another winter storm - enough ice and now snow to close the Fed. Government and all schools (again!) a perfect day to stay inside with you and William Least Heat-Moon's travel journal...(which is really so much more than that, isn't it?) I'd love to keep a list here of the bits of philosophical observations he's included in the book. Do you think he wrote them as he travelled - or after, during the editing process.
Let's get started! Where to begin? The correct answer- wherever you wish! This week we'll consider the preparation for such a trip- and the first week on the road.
Would you say that the author began this trip to get away from something - or to find something new? JoanK, your "lost weekends" sound like such carefree FUN!
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JoanP,
Here's the link to author interview in 2011. Really worth reading. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=0)
The following is a partial quote of Moon's from the interview. "when life gets this way or that way, and we’re not really happy with it, what do we do? Put a kit bag over one shoulder and head out for the road because that’s where solutions might lie. Somewhere out there is an answer to why a life is as it is."
I am just taking my sweet ole' time reading this book. It just reads that way. I looked at my highway atlas for the roads and because its fairly new, there are no blue highways BUT there are red highways. Found, with the help of my handy hand-held magnifying glass, some of the numbers that he used. Since I am from Indiana and live in Ohio, I found his path through those states. At the time, he was sort of shadowing I-64 on those old roads that most of us have been on before the super highways were built. Sometimes, I thought he misnamed some towns but there they are under my glass. I am now off to look up a town that seems misplaced in NC. Or I am lost. He taught English, right? Well, his remarks show his talent for writing and quoting the English language. Back later!
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JoanK,
I may be reading too far ahead also and although I am taking my time reading the book, I keep going back to it often, to reread a paragraph or a quote that strikes my fancy. I think I might start leaving post-its on those pages that strike my fancy so that I am not rereading too much to find what I want to keep in my head.
You and your husband must have had a great time on those old roads. And, your son, sounds like one of my sons, when it comes to taking the time to speak with a person about what is going on. I think he picked it up from me and his great grandfather(yes, he knew him). We always said that Granpa never met a stranger. And, I am the same.
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Annie, that's quite an interesting link - the difference between a traveller and tourist. Will get that link into the heading for easy reference...
Please do share those quotes that "strike your fancy." IMO they are what make this so much more than a travelogue.
You bring up an important point about going ahead on the road. This may work, once we get started, but right now, it will only add to confusion and may discourage those coming in to the site for the first time as we set out. Will add your link to the heading and will keep the discussion schedule up to date so you know where we are...this week, starting east from Missouri. Will copy the heading from the top of this page - in case you missed it.
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* Is most of your driving travel on the Interstates today?
* Are the backroads still drawn in blue on maps?
* When was the last time you drove on one?
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
|
Discussion Schedule:
March 3-7 Eastward (Part One)
Relevant Links:
Read Blue Highways Online (opening chapters) (http://nomadism.org/pdf/bluehigh.pdf);
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html) | (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif)
|
Some Topics for Discussion
March 3-7 Part One Eastward
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
1. How much time did it take Bill Trogdon to get on the road from the time he lost his teaching job in Missouri? How well prepared was he? What did his packing list reveal about the kind of trip he was planning?
2. Have you ever taken an extended road trip? Will you tell us about it? How much preparation went into it? How did your trip differ from the author's? Were you trying to avoid the Interstates?
3. Least Heat-Moon, Eddie Short Leaf...Osage Indian names. What do you know of the Osage Indians living in Missouri. Least Heat-Moon says he's making the trip to find his roots. Do you think need a purpose if you plan to be on the road for a long time?
4. Is it at all clear why Heat-Moon chose this particular route? (See the interactive map (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm) of his trip. Why did he head East from Missouri? Why the circular route, avoiding the mid-section of the country? If you were to start out today, what direction, what route would you take?
5. Part One chronicles the Eastern route he followed the first week of his trip. This MAP (http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/4_bhr_p9_8_1x5--_Blue_Highways_mapIMG_3241_copy_2.jpg) might be easier to follow - since he backtracked, went out of his way by 45 miles, to find a place called Nameless, TN. What does this tell about his planned route?
6. Let's keep a list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal. (Just post your favorites and we'll add them.)
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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Re #2: We took a 3 1/2 month trip in 1998, pulling a travel trailer, going from Chattanooga to California to the eastern end of the Alaska Highway to Alaska, on the ferries back to Vancouver Island, across the northern tier of states, and back home. We drove over 16,000 miles. The first leg to California was pretty much structured, but after that, it was free-form except for having to deal with ferry reservations toward the end.
We also went cross-country in 2003, mostly following the Lewis and Clark trail, then coming back on a more southerly route - also with the travel trailer - again, with no set itinerary.
Way too much information to get into at one time, but I'll chime in from time to time, and will be happy to answer any questions. We did the first trip after having the trailer for only a couple of months and taking two weekend trips locally. We had no problems - I guess sometimes good fortune looks out for idiots.
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Drove the ALCAN Highway three times -- first to take a job in Anchorage -- 2nd and 3rd trip to Lower 48 to Las Vegas. These were the days when the ALCAN was a gravel road except through the towns (each about 400 miles apart -- a good days drive on a gravel road. Had a convertible!! Many trips across USA.
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My reading doesn't go as fast as I would have thought. I'm looking up each town on my TripleA maps. A lot of them are there, usually with a population of a few thousand. The highways are grey, though. And I have to look up the weird words. A bindlestiff is a hobo, especially one who carries his clothes in a bundle (or bindle). A froe is a cleaving tool with the handle at right angles to the blade, used for splitting cask staves and shingles from a block.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe)
So far my favorite remark is "Life doesn't happen along interstates. It's against the law."
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A good one, PatH! Sounds like a wry comment Least Heat-Moon would make, doesn't it? Don't you feel you are getting to know the man after reading just a few chapters? Still a lot of unanswered questions, though.
The list of favorite quotes has been added to the relevant links in the heading, thanks to Marcie.
Where do you think the "weird words" come from? Maybe Missouri-speak?
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online ~ Starting March 3
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
|
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas)
Relevant Links:
Read Blue Highways Online (opening chapters) (http://nomadism.org/pdf/bluehigh.pdf);
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 3-7 Part One Eastward
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
1. How much time did it take Bill Trogdon to get on the road from the time he lost his teaching job in Missouri? How well prepared was he? What did his packing list reveal about the kind of trip he was planning?
2. Have you ever taken an extended road trip? Will you tell us about it? How much preparation went into it? How did your trip differ from the author's? Were you trying to avoid the Interstates?
3. Least Heat-Moon, Eddie Short Leaf...Osage Indian names. What do you know of the Osage Indians living in Missouri. Least Heat-Moon says he's making the trip to find his roots. Do you think need a purpose if you plan to be on the road for a long time?
4. Is it at all clear why Heat-Moon chose this particular route? (See the interactive map (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm) of his trip. Why did he head East from Missouri? Why the circular route, avoiding the mid-section of the country? If you were to start out today, what direction, what route would you take?
5. Part One chronicles the Eastern route he followed the first week of his trip. This MAP (http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/4_bhr_p9_8_1x5--_Blue_Highways_mapIMG_3241_copy_2.jpg) might be easier to follow - since he backtracked, went out of his way by 45 miles, to find a place called Nameless, TN. What does this tell about his planned route?
6. Let's keep a list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal. (Just post your favorites and we'll add them to a list.)
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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Maryz, Kidsal! That's a whole lot of driving! I've questions for you. Kidsal, were you driving alone all that way in that little convertible of yours? Maryz, you sound as if you had company. Don't you think it would make a big difference driving such a distance alone?
I found a picture of Least Heat-Moon's van and a note saying that he purchased it in 1975. (This trip was not until 1978, so he knew how it handled.) I can't imagine you with that trailer on the back of your car, Mary. Wasn't it difficult to maneuver? You didn't have it very long before you set out. Did you ever get tired of it after thousands of miles. I'll bet you stopped in motels now and then during those 3.5 months! Do you have any photos of it?
Here's Least-Heat Moon's van - named it Ghost Dancing. (I don't know why.) He lived in it for three months...
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLU6HylAWSecbPdSruWTJ0_RuKwhO0_j618PkLszgnkhw5_Z96)
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John and I went on the trip. He drove about 2/3 of the time, me the other third. Pulling the trailer was definitely a learning experience. We had a Ford F-350 auto-transmission truck, pulling a 27' trailer. In California, we were at a family reunion at a state park, but the rest of the time we stayed in the trailer. We certainly ate out many times. There were no digital cameras then, and we were mostly taking slides, so I don't have any photos available.
On the way to CA, we had planned for a hiking Elderhostel for John do to at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. We parked the trailer in the campground at the North Rim, and I stayed there (with the truck, so I could wander around the park) while he did his hiking and stayed with the group.
We rarely drove more than 4-5 hours a day. When we drove the Highway, it was all paved (except for the areas of road construction), and there was gas available at about 50-75 mile intervals, so much easier than when Kidsal drove it. We had been advised to "drive on the top half of your tank", i.e., fill up at the first opportunity when the tank was down to half-full. Our truck had two 18-gallon tanks, so when we switched over, we stopped soon to fill up the depleted one. We took two spare tires for the truck and one for the trailer, and never used any of them. The only mishap we had was a tiny windshield ding, which we got on a paved road, driving about 25 mph. We got that fixed at the next stop, paid for by our car insurance.
We were concerned about too much enforced togetherness, but actually didn't have any arguments or harsh words until we were about 3 hours from home.
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My mother was with me on my trips to Alaska and back -- Buick LeSabre Convertible -- was planning on a job in California instead of Alaska. Was surprised we didn't see much wildlife on the way -- but did smell a bear. Camped out one night -- hate camping. A lot of traffic on the road -- mainly trucks. We were lucky we didn't get a broken windshield as many do because of the gravel being kicked up by passing vehicles. Was in Anchorage for eleven years and got to see a great deal of it due to my job. But no highways - but interesting bush plane rides.
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Maryz, I'm still laughing...3.5 months on the road together and only three hours from home when you had words! I think my husband and I would not have been on such good behaviour for so long in the car together all those hours - months. He would have been stressed with that trailer on the back too!
Our William Least Heat-Moon travelled alone for the same length of time. I've been wondering whether it would be more difficult to travell a distance with someone, as you and kidsal did - or alone as he did. I don't think I could have done it alone. (Anniementioned this morning that a woman could not make such a trip alone - and she thinks it's not fair!) Least Heat-Moon says something in the openng chapters about all the driving and battling with his Cherokee wife - the "Indian Wars" he called them. He was probably better suited to traveling solo.
I noticed several things he packed in his gear box - a satchel of notebooks, pens, a microcassette recorder; 2 Nikon F2 35mm cameras and five lenses. It was the microcassette recorder that really got my attention. What did he attend to do with the recorder? It seems he set out to document his trip. Did you take notes, pictures on your trips? Did you make scrapbooks of the places you saw?
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Those of you who are out on the road already, following Ghost Dancing on the eastward route - Where do you think he's going? Does he seem to have a destination in mind? Where are you at this point?
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The problem I'm going to have is my bad memory. I've already forgotten what towns he went through. I'll have to take notes, which I don't usually have to do.
I'm a little nervous about what he's going to say about my home town (Washington D.C.) I can see from the "list of states that he goes through it, but I'm afraid it's not his kind of place, and I'm already defensive, imagining what he might say.
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I was very much interested in what he had to say about the horses' bones and the water supply being rich in calcium and phosphorous. Here I just thought the horse industry just kind of happened around a good quantity of nice pastureland and the phenomena of "birds of a feather flocking together" mentality.
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FRY, where are you? Kentucky, maybe? When did you become interested in horses? Horses' bones? Need some context here this morning! :D State? Route?
Some of you mention an Atlas. I wonder how many are following the route with a Rand McNally map?
JoanK - Don't worry so much! We won't be back to the east coast till the very end of the trip - and who knows, by that time DC might be Mr. Trogdon's kind of town! ;)
Did you find his route a bit confusing when looking on the Interactive map? I did. It seems he left Columbia, Mo - drove east (looking for Spring?) and then headed back out of his way, looking for a place called NAMELESS. When he came home, he followed a similar east-west route back to MO.
This map makes it a bit clearer -
(http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/4_bhr_p9_8_1x5--_Blue_Highways_mapIMG_3241_copy_2.jpg)
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I'm in Chattanooga, TN. I've never been to Nameless, TN, but I looked on google maps. The area where it is is very sparsely settled and rugged. Poor soil, so no good farming...just "hard" country.
I've been through Ninety-Six, SC. Our daughter lives near there. Her kids went to school in Due West, SC, which is right down the road from Honea Path, Ware Shoals, etc. Real "blue road" places.
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Yes, I forgot to mention Kentucky. I was quite a horse nut in my younger days. Learned to ride English saddle, but then we moved to an area where the stables all taught Western (or at least the ones my parents found). Parents didn't want to drive me the whole way back to the stable I had taken lessons, and I didn't want to learn Western, so that ended most of my riding days. (Snooty of me, I know) I spent my high school years watching my school friends ride in the local horse shows, and went to the polo matches held on Max Hempt's farm. Max used to be very heavy into Standardbred Harness racing. He along with the Horseshoe Farms in Hanover were big names in that venue. My friends in HS were mostly farm kids who had horses of their own. If you don't live on a farm, stabling a horse is expensive, as are the vet and feed bills. The lessons couldn't have been all that cheap for my parents, so I doubt they minded not having that expense after we moved.
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Horses bones--what he meant was that the limestone soil provided horses an unusually good supply of the minerals needed for strong bones--I'm not sure whether in the grass or the water or both. This is an issue for racehorses, who are more slender than workhorses, and put a lot of strain on their bones. So that combined with the very suitable climate would make Kentucky a natural for racehorse breeding.
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This is fun reading everyone's comments about where they are and where they've been. Then I'm kind of like PatH, getting hung up on the map and looking up the towns.
Sally, good to see you here. I've been near your town in Wyoming, even tried to stay there one night, but all the motels were full up, and I wondered why. Guess you get a lot of people in the summer. (That was my one and only cross country trip from Mo to Seattle, nine years ago.) Now all this conversation is getting me in a mind to go somewhere again.
Frybabe, I wonder why Least didn't go to Pennsyvania. Some 60 years ago I went with my best friend and her parents from Wisconsin to Pennsylvania and north. We were two 13-year-olds just enthralled with the Amish farms, the barns, the hex signs. And music nerd that I was, I was so excited that we were going to see Fred Waring's place at Shawnee on Delaware.
JoanP, I've never heard those strange words. Not MO-speak here, at least not Mississippi River speak.
That road he took across Illinois -- I-64 -- was very new back then and has been my road of choice for years, when driving east. Beats the heck out of that truck route I-70.
Sallie, back in the 1950's, maybe 60's, our neighbors drove from Wisconsin into Alaska, and they were told to take a trailor-full (not a mobile home) of tires.
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Frybabe, we were posting at the same time. I'm pretty fuzzy-minded on the difference between English and Western; would you care to enlighten me?
The froe seems to be a widespread term, though I'd never heard of it. If you like tools, it's worth looking at that Wikipedia link. It seems like a nifty, well-thought-out device for a specific problem--cutting slices of wood of even thickness, especially if your aim isn't good enough with an axe.
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Oh, the horses! And such interesting posts! I am having lunch with a friend and she has arrived so will post later!
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Pat H, a picture is worth a thousand words, so they say:
http://horsesrock166.hubpages.com/hub/English-Horseback-Riding-Vs-Western-Horseback-Riding
English is for what I'd call leisure riding, also for thoroughbred horse racing, jumping, fox hunting.
Western is a work saddle, as seen in numerous cowboy movies and rodeos, and cattle and horse roundups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YStl1sUzIN4 Calf roping. The first 38 seconds are sufficient.
Notice that the rope is tied to the horn on the saddle. The horse and man are a team. The horse's, job is to get the roper close enough to the calf for him to throw and then once the calf is roped, the horse must hold the rope taut while the rider ties the calf. This rodeo event has its roots in the ranch roundups to catch and brand new calves. But you all knew that.
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Frybabe,
Those links that you left are so interesting but I strongly disagree with the first author when she says
" To conclude, english and western riding styles are very different.''
That is not true! I first rode English while taking lessons at the age of 41 (I was also taking flying lessons that the same time). After I got a feel for the English, a friend offered to let me and my 12 yr old son ride her Western styled (trained?) horses after supper every night for the whole summer. Never had any problem switching back and forth from English and Western. I did both, regularly. I also also rode a barrel horse during that time and it tried to get rid of me, on the wall of the paddock. Not an experience I want to repeat!
I did love riding and was fortunate that my daughter was into horses up to the top of her head! She worked to earn enough money to buy her own horse and because the horse was only 1yr when she bought her, Barb spent that first year, just getting acquainted with her love, never riding her. She was stabled about a half mile from us and everyday Barb had to feed the horse before going to school. After supper, more feeding and stall cleaning was there to do. Due to the fact that she needed money to feed the animal, she continued to work. Her boarding charge was $10 a month but she had to pay for and provide hay and feed. We paid the boarding fee. Later that year, her best friend and she, were offered free board at a large private stable belonging to another friends parents, if they would take care of the other horses, belonging to the family. The girls got up every morning, to feed those horses (now numbering 9 with the parent's horses included) and to put them out to pasture. After dinner, every night, they returned to bring in the 9 and to clean stalls and feed and water. And both of us mothers became the girls' "gofers"! Both of the girls were into jumping and horse shows which is a lot of work for everyone involved including us moms. The girls both rode English.
But, I was going to say, about the book and me, I live in Columbus, Ohio and I was in the Kentucky chapter when I posted. Am now too far ahead and will slow down a bit.
We used to live closer to Columbus but in a different zip code and the very differently named town called Blacklick, which was out in the country. I have no idea of why it was named that but my luncheon buddy still lives there, and she wondered if it had anything to with deers and salt licks? I just know that the horse mill was located about 2 miles from home and that I was often asked to pick up feed for the girls' horses.
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My husband and daughters got into basket-making at one time. They used a froe to split the reeds or oak used in basket-making.
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Here is a pic of a 'froe'.
https://www.lehmans.com/p-686-lehmans-own-old-fashioned-froe.aspx
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Pedln, I think we're all wondering at the chosen route. Sometimes I feel he's just driving around looking for odd-sounding names, wanting to know more about how they got these names. Bug, Kentucky was one of the names I remember. I read in an interview that one of his favorites, if not his favorite story was how Namesless, Tenn. got its name. I think you'll enjoy that one, Maryz - He left his Kentucky route to go out of his way to Tenn., just to talk to people in Nameless to learn about the name.
Got so excited following him through Kentucky, actually found Kentucky 53, while looking for Shelbyville - an interesting place to stop. It seems that most of the places he stops are restaurants or cafes - when hungry for local cuisine or conversation/information. I can understand that. In Shelbyville, he stopped at Claudia Saunders Dinner House (http://www.yelp.com/biz/claudia-sanders-dinner-house-shelbyville). Claudia is Colonel Saunder's sister. Place is still open - don't know if Claudia is there...but I noted the restaurant just in case I find myself in the neighborhood. :D
I wasn't able to find Tenn. 42 on the Kentucky map though - but did find the town of Livingston on his way to to Nameless...
Tiny city - As of the census[4] of 2000, there were 228 people, 104 households, and 63 families residing in the city. I wonder how many there were in 1978 when Heat-Moon stopped to chat.
Here's one more cafe in Kentucky - here he got the directions to Nameless. The City Cafe in Gainsboro, TN. The waitress here thinks he needs a dog to keep him company. He disagrees. Needs to talk to people, not dogs...
Do you recognize this town, MaryZ? I don't think the City Cafe (http://bluehighways.wikispaces.com/14) is still open, but it was an interesting stop...you'll see the five calendar ratings in this link. :D
(http://bluehighways.wikispaces.com/file/view/vfiles20939.jpg/33391969/334x349/vfiles20939.jpg)
JoanK, are you finding these cities in your memory bank? (My memory is as bad as yours - I confess, I'm writing them down.) I'll bet you won't forget Nameless once we find it... I'll bet your noticing the different birds he's noting -
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Re eating while travelling: When going through small towns, we've learned to stop at a café on (or within a block of) the town square. Or a place that's named "City Café" or "Ninety-Six Café" (whatever the name of the small town might be). And order the special of the day, or ask the waitress for her favorite thing. Then enjoy your meal and eavesdrop on the conversations of the regulars. Fabulous!
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City folk like me know almost nothing about horses. I do have a friend who loves horses -- she has a t-shirt that reads "horse riding is the art of keeping the horse between you and the ground."
I'm glad to know the difference between English and Western saddles. Thanks, FRY for that clear description of the saddle and horse's role in calf roping. Rodeos are broadcast on TV here in LA, and I watch them. It's a new world to Eastern city me. I like to understand it as much as I can.
Is a barrel horse, one that's trained to do the barrel racing? I can only imagine how much skill that takes.
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JoanP, the City Café link is wonderful! Thank you for providing a source of information about the entire book! I have bookmarked it for future reference.
Some would advise stopping at a diner where there are a lot of trucks in the parking lot. I don't know that I would suggest that if they're all semis, but pick-ups often indicate a café where the local guys meet for morning coffee and conversation. That doesn't necessarily mean great food, though. I wouldn't recommend either of the diners in my home town in southeastern Oklahoma.
I realize this road trip is an escape from unhappy times in Least Moon's life but the tone of his writing reminds me of an old "Wee Pals" cartoon I have on my "social comment" board. One character is walking with his head down and his hands in his pockets as he comments, "I don't mind facing reality once in a while, but when it's every day, it gets to be a drag."
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Joan, we haven't been to Gainsboro, TN, but we may have to look for it. I LOVE the calendar ratings. The food is usually just plain, good food, but a large part of the charm is the ambience. We have heard more wonderful things - stories we've told for years - listening to the local conversation, or just chatting up the wait persons and/or cooks and/or proprietors.
Our daughter has a friend who has just built a house in a horse-friendly retirement/vacation community just outside of Jamestown, TN. This is one of those very small towns - there's a non-super WalMart and a hardware store, but not much else. She moved there from the Washington, DC, suburbs, so it's quite a shock to her system. We've visited once, and will go again. We'll check out some of the eateries.
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I have just left Nameless & am on the road!
Sally
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I am about where you are Salan, just drove by Oak Ridge.
George and I spent many a lunch/dinner at diners. We just loved the atmosphere and the food generally good and plentiful. Diner waitresses were always good with the back and forth banter of the regulars, which of course included us. One of our favorite diners in the Allentown area eventually went out of business after the off track betting parlor was built across the wide street. The powers that be reconfigured the roadway, putting in barriers so that people could not make a left hand turn into the diner parking lot. That and the fact that the owner liked to gamble, so I suspect that also was a factor.
Adoannie, I don't think boarding fees around here were ever that low. Those few people I knew who had to board did cut their costs by mucking their horse stall and feeding the horse themselves. One or two who took lessons at the same stable as me paid for their lessons by mucking, feeding and exercising the stable horses. The stable owner was pretty ambitious for herself and her better riders in the hunting and jumping competitions. After I left, I kept track of one or two of them who entered competitions in national competitions. The owner herself went on to sell her stable and later married into the RJ Reynolds family. After that, I lost track.
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Maryz, Frybabe... we loved stopping at the local hangouts too! And asking for the special of the day. When Mary referred to "eavesdropping" on the locals' conversations...I was reminded of how much we enjoyed the regional differences in as we went through different states. At the same time I was having these fond memories, I couldn't help but be envious Least Half-Moon's ability to strike up conversations with the locals. Sometimes I think you have to be travelling alone - or maybe you have to be more outgoing than we were.. DId feel more like eavesdroppers than a participant in the banter as you did, Fry. :D
"I wouldn't recommend either of the diners in my home town in southeastern Oklahoma." Callie, have noted that struck stops don't necessary mean good food. Where DO you recommend we stop when we get there?
Isn't anyone going to tell MaryZ about Nameless, TN? She's having a hard time finding it in her Atlas?
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I don't remember where Least-Heat Moon heard of Nameless, but he was willing to drive out of his way to get there - just because of the name. Or lack thereof. It seems it was all word of mouth - From Gainesboro, he was told to go down Shepardsville Rd...(there is no such place as Shepardsville)
"I was looking for an unnumbered road named after a non-existant town to a place called Nameless nobody was sure existed."
Is how he came up with this route? Following whims and odd-sounding place names? I don't know if I could do this. No, I know I wouldn't - I'd have to have a destination - though I do believe the the journey is more important than the destination. I think. Now I'm confused!
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No wonder you didn't stay long, in Nameless, Sally - very little to see, besides Thurmond Watt's General store - and it's closed. There Least Half-Moon satisfied his curiosity about the name. There was a small settlement - The population was only 90 - (who knows what it is today?) They had applied for a Post Office...but the settlement had no name - couldn't agree one one either. One man walked out of the meeting and said the place is "nameless" and would just have to stay that way. And it did! Nameless, TN
So why isn't it on the map? From what I can see, Watt's General Store has closed (his son turned it into a museum of sorts - some call it an antique store)... and guess what? The PO is gone too!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Nameless-jackson-co-tn1.jpg)
"The old J.T. Watts General Store, now a museum, will be open for visitors, who will be able to enjoy a soft drink or eat a Moon Pie or a baloney and cheese sandwich in remembrance of the past." A Happening in Nameless, TN (http://blogs.knoxnews.com/humphrey/2011/05/a-happening-in-nameless-tn.html)
This is addictive - finding all sorts of information on Nameless, but must get back on the road. Can't help but posting one more photo of JT Watts - and his son on the porch of the General Store:
(http://www.ajlambert.com/cem_virt/jtwatts.jpg)
I guess we won't find good honest food at good prices here. I bet we won't even find a McDonald's franchise either! I take it back - if you did stop in to the store, you'd find they are giving away baloney and cheese sandwiches...probably on white bread!
I'm going to try to catch up with you all in Oakridge.
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It must've been somebody else. I did find Nameless, TN, on google maps. It's in the area between Crossville, TN, and the KY border.
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DId feel more like eavesdroppers than a participant in the banter as you did, Fry
JoanP, we were often a part of the conversation, and always where the local diners were concerned.
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JoanP, this group won't get to Oklahoma. It's not on the route. :)
However, if we were going through my hometown, I'd recommend either the Diner at the north end of town or the Truck Stop at the south end for breakfast or pie/coffee. Not sure the locals would visit like the ones in the book, though. They're friendly to "outsiders" but not prone to give out personal information.
Earlier on, I posted that I have some pictures of interesting places on Blue Highways in Oklahoma and you suggested I send them to you for posting. May I still do that?
I like the way Least-Moon is elaborating on one story in different areas. I'm sure he visited with more people along the way.
I'm just past Morristown TN - where he considered turning west and going home on the Interstate, which would be a one-day trip. It has taken him a week to get to Morristown.
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Fry, you must have fit right in! Callie, please do send on your photos. That would be great! A question about that truck stop on the south end of town - do they consider YOU a local? ;)
Maryz - you found Nameless by googling, right? Not on a map? A paper map? a Rand McNally map? Maybe the population has increased since the General Store has turned into a Community Center?
Callie's in Morristown - we're still in TN, right? Easter, black starlings, a pall of snow. One week into the trip - it's either been raining or snowing the whole way. Some of it is what he refers to as "white knuckle driving."
I guess I'd reconsider too...Why didn't he decide to go home? He says, "a man becomes what he does." Deep. Let's add that to our list of Heat-Moonisms.
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I've read this book before, shortly after it came out, and am reading it more closely now. I have to get it back to the library, so I am far ahead on this journey.
What comes to mind is that once behind the wheel, my tendency is to keep going, same with my husband, so we have to plan ahead on our trips to make a point of stopping, or we don't do it and then look back and wish we had. Never have we regretted a stop. I get the sense from the author that sometimes inertia just kept him behind the steering wheel.
Our trips are often just 3-6 hours, and often because of the destination we need to use the two-lane highways or county roads because of where we live and where we are going. (And to avoid rush hour in some places). We try to take rustic roads when we see them, now that we're retired and not in a hurry to keep to a schedule.
Mr. Heat Moon didn't get through the midsection of the country, so he missed traveling down the Mississippi River. The Great River Road, the portions we've traveled so far, can take a long time to go down, lots of little places to stop. We have a lot of it to go yet, and that's on my list.
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Sounds like something I'd like, too, nlhome! Will put the Great River Road on my "bucket list." I'd love to go with you! My husband, sad to say, is a "gotta-get-there" kind of traveler. Point A to Point B by a pre-planned time. Although he does schedule stops he's read about. And if I holler to stop and look at something, he'll usually do that - reluctantly. :D
Least Heat-Moon quotes his father, Heat Moon -
"Any traveler who misses the journey misses about all he's going to get. A man becomes his attentions."
I think he's learned a lot from his father. Can we talk about his father? Heat-Moon, an Osage name. His brother is also a Heat-Moon. Are you at all confused about the author's name.(s) his father have an Osage name as well as the Trogdon name? In this first section, the author says he left MO as Bill Trogdon - came back as Least-Heat Moon. Do you know anything about the Osage Indians living in western Missouri? Do they live together, or have they assimilated? ( I'm wondering about the name of William Least Heat-Moon Trogdon's Cherokee wife's name.)
ps...just glanced at my bookcover and see that the author's name is "William Least Heat Moon" - no Trogdon at the end... Wonder what that means...
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I am not confused at all about the two different names. I think the author describes them very well in his intro. I've forgotten what his wife's name is already - will have to look when I pick the book up again.
I have two thoughts regarding Trogdon not being used on the cover. The first is rather commercial, which is that the editors may have thought the Osage name would sell better. The other is that with all of the crumby things that happened to Least Heat Moon, he may have had some notion of reconnecting with his heritage. I see no signs, though, that he actively was seeking out Native American sites on his travels. I think the travel itself may have a healing quality to it. There were times, especially on nice days, when I headed for work I seriously wanted to just keep going on the interstate rather than turn off towards work.
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Late to the party -- I found Nameless on my trusty old Microsoft Roads map, my travelling bible. It's there just off of Dry Creek Ford Road and Shepardville Hywy. (microsoft actually found it for me -- it finds things invisible to the naked eye.)
JoanP, nlhome, if you go the Great River Road you want to be sure to stop at Elsah's Landing (in Elsah) to heat. Great soup. You'll find a Christian Science college there -- Principia College.
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I think that earlier, a fella he was speaking with along the road, said that, JoanP,but its a good quote. This trip is sometimes hard to follow even with the map as he does seem to go back and forth while traveling on what he calls his circle of the country and life.
JoanP, I was telling Ralph about our book and its author and he said, "Why would anyone travel without making reservations?"
But we had a "stop here" incident yesterday, right in our own hometown. When I saw a little corner tavern just south of the university medical buildings at OSU that offered food and said, "We ought to try that place!", my husband (also a gotta-get-there man) made a u-turn back to the tavern (shocking moment!) where we had a delightful time talking about the place with our waitress,who was also the bartender. She told us about their mixed of patrons. Construction workers from OSU(that's Ohio State, Callie ;) ) come for lunch plus some of the students from the college but mostly, its a family tavern(30 yrs old) visited by people who live in neighborhood. They were all decorated and ready for St.Patrick's day on the 17th and their food was delicious. We had Philly Cheesesteaks and french fried onions. It was a bit dark in there but I got out my little Led flashlight so we could read the menu. They had many tv's on the sports channels but not loud, and a new kind of juke box which we asked about. It was outlined in blue Led lighting surrounding a huge touchscreen used for choosing one's favorite tunes. And an ATM right next to it. Wish I had thought of taking a few pictures with my cell phone. There was a pool table back in its own special corner, and a game table in its own corner. Can't think of the name of the game, maybe air hockey. Needless to say, the place was not as small as it seemed from the outside. So now we have something new to talk about. And that's always a plus when one had been married for over 60 years. ;D
nlhome I like the way you are enjoying your retirement! Seeing the other side of life, off the grid of super highways. Sounds like your trips are like Least Heat Moon's but in little increments.
Is anyone here ready to follow his path of many years ago? Would you drive down that road and walk to his great, great grandfather's gravesite? Hmmmmm!
I am just starting into Morristown.
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JoanP, it would take an entire essay to explore the attitude of my hometown toward those of us who went away after high school - and didn't move back!
However, I have always had family and friend connections there - and have gone/still go often enough to remind them who I am. :) Of course, there are fewer of my contemporaries left.
One of my relatives, who grew up in Jacksonville FL, married a navy man from St. Ansgar, Iowa. After he was discharged, they made their home in St. Ansgar - where his family all lived. His brothers had all married local girls. After 45 years of raising a family and being active in the community, my relative was still referred to as "the wife from Away".
AdoAnnie, you were ahead of me with the OSU i.d. :D I was just about ready to comment. Stillwater, where Oklahoma State University is located, has a few diners with that kind of atmosphere, too.
My husband was a "point A to point B' traveler, also. I did get him off the beaten path a few times - but he didn't enjoy it. My sons, OTOH, love to take time to explore while traveling. Their dad died before they were able to do this with their wives and I often wonder what he would think about the places they go and the way they look at the trips.
Heat-Moon/Trogdon seems to be focusing on a certain type (maybe stereotype) of places and people for his longer stories. I wonder if this will change as he gets farther west.
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I am travelling on to the next session. I am enjoying the journey and find it an easy read.
Sally
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online ~ Starting March 3
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
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This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas)
Relevant Links:
Read Blue Highways Online (opening chapters) (http://nomadism.org/pdf/bluehigh.pdf);
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
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Some Topics for Discussion
March 8-11 Part Two East by Southeast
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
Also, let's continue to keep a list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal.
(Just post your favorites and we'll add them to a list.)
1. When he reached North Carolina, Heat Moon "realizes he has been retracing the migration of his white-blooded clan from North Carolina to Missouri." Does this suggest his choice of this route to you?
2. Have you ever set out to trace your ancestry? Were you successful? Do you think this was William Least Heat-Moon's intent? He did carry that photo of a tombstone in his pocket? Did he learn anything at all about his ancestral grandfather who migrated to Missouri?
3. Do you find his vocabulary usage, visual pictures, character depiction, becoming more colorful as he moves further into North Carolina? Can you share any examples?
4. Were you aware of the extent of Dickens' travels in the US? Why would he stop in Manteo? What was the significance of Fort Raleigh on Manteo? Do you know of the Croatan mystery?
5. North Carolina Highway 264 - stands of loblolly (?), fishing towns, Bath, New Bern - and into the Deep South.
Nothing open on a Friday night. Do you think those teenagers will stay in Wallace or migrate to a bigger town?
6. South Carolina 34 - Are there any signs of Reconstruction along this roadway besides Heath-Moon's description of the remnants of the reconstructed south - sharecroppers cabins, artesian wells. And fields of kudzu?
7. Do you think the "Old Ninety Six," astride the Cherokee Path and its trove of relics, can survive in federal hands? - What was the significance of this trail? Is Least Half-Moon finding what he has been seeking?
8. Rt. 72 "Land of Coke Cola" to North Georgia - (Did you stop at Swamp Guinea's Fish Lodge? Did you learn the meaning of the name?)
Would Heat Moon have stopped at the Trappist Monastery of the Holy Spirit if not for the cross on the water tower he spotted from the road in Conyers GA on Rte. 2? Can you imagine Least Heat-Moon a monk?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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My husband is of the other kind - he hates to be bound by a schedule. Even when we have a finite amount of time to get from point A to point B, we rarely reserve ahead. We have dear friends that we never travel with. He's one who not only wants to know where he's going to stay that night, he plans where he's going to eat dinner. Definitely not our kind of traveling. ::)
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Me, again.
I have just read - and printed out - the interview between Phil Caputo and Least-Moon. Interesting observations. I plan to see if "The Longest Road" is available at my library.
Another book I think would make a good "companion read" to this discussion is "Roads" by Larry McMurtry. He explored the Interstates in 1999 by flying to the "outmost point" of a particular Interstate, renting a car and driving back to his (then) home in Archer City, Texas. Interesting to compare his observations with Least-Moons; some of them are similar.
I need to amend my comments about chatting up people in rural diners, stores, etc. Those of you who have commented on conversations with waitresses are correct - and I think individuals such as Least-Moon wrote about are more willing to visit about themselves than, say, a table of "locals" who are engrossed in their own conversation.
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Maryz - can you hear Annie and me - fighting to swap husbands with you! ;)
"- Heat-Moon/Trogdon seems to be focusing on a certain type (maybe stereotype) of places and people for his longer stories."Callie
b]Callie[/b], when I read some of these longer observations I wonder how he remembers all the details...right down to the local slang and accent. Then I remember some of the things he packed for the trip...
1 satchel of notebooks, pens, road atlas, and a microcassette recorder; 2 Nikon F2 35mm cameras and five lenses;
Do you think he had a book in mind when he began this trip?
Now that you mention it, it seems that he is chatting with individuals, rather than entering into conversations with a table full of locals.
What type interests him? You may have put your finger on it when you suggested that he's looking for stereotypes of each region. (I like the way he's including the birds and the trees in each area too. What's a catalpa?)
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"I see no signs, though, that he actively was seeking out Native American sites on his travels." Fry
He did say at the onset that he's looking for his roots. Annie asks if you'd drive down that road and walk to his great, great grandfather's gravesite? So, if not his Native American roots, then maybe he's looking to learn more about the Trogdon side of the family?
Do you think he grew up among the Osage in MO? If so, he might know very little about the Trogdon side of his family.(Fry, I didn't mean to say that the author ever revealed the name of the Cherokee wife...was just wondering what her name would be if married to William Least Heat Moon Trogdon...)
Morristown - and don't skip Jonesborough, before we leave TN. That town has an interesting history. Then we'll catch up with Sally in the Carolinas tomorrow. Have you been to Jonesborough, Maryz? Looks like what I imagine many little towns in TN to look like?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Jonesborough-historic-dist1.jpg)
ps Do we have a clue yet as to what made him choose to travel around the perimeter of the country, avoiding the interior?
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JoanP - sorry, not interesting in trading. I've had him for about 57+ years, and I'd hate to have to break in another one. :D
Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa) to read about a catalpa tree. They're really messy trees to have in your yard, with big leaves and long seed pods to have to deal with.
I'm sorry to say we've not been to Jonesborough, TN. They have a long history of story-telling, and a story-telling convention every year. Click here (http://www.historicjonesborough.com/) for more about that town.
We have, however, been to Rugby, TN. Click here. (http://www.historicrugby.org/) It was a long time ago, though. Fascinating story about its founding.
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JoanP - sorry, not interesting in trading. I've had him for about 57+ years, and I'd hate to have to break in another one. :D
Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa) to read about a catalpa tree. They're really messy trees to have in your yard, with big leaves and long seed pods to have to deal with.
I'm sorry to say we've not been to Jonesborough, TN. They have a long history of story-telling, and a story-telling convention every year. Click here (http://www.historicjonesborough.com/) for more about that town.
We have, however, been to Rugby, TN. Click here. (http://www.historicrugby.org/) It was a long time ago, though. Fascinating story about its founding.
Least Heat-Moon didn't stop there.
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From a Wikipedia biography of William Least-Moon: "born of English-Irish-Osage ancestry in Kansas City MO. Earned a BA, MA, and Doctorate in English at the University of Missouri, as well as a Bachelor's in photojournalism. Member of Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity.
Lives in Rocheport MO, on the Missouri river 10 miles west of Columbia (location of Univ. of MO)
Here's a link to the Osage tribal history http://www.osagetribe.com/historicpreservation/info_sub_page.aspx?subpage_id=14 (http://www.osagetribe.com/historicpreservation/info_sub_page.aspx?subpage_id=14) Scroll through to see their migration history.
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Maryz asked, do you think he had a book in mind when he began this trip? With this background, I suspect he always travels with equipment for taking notes and pictures that could lead to a book.
Annie asked if we would travel down a country road to locate a grave. Absolutely!!!! Even though my husband was generally a "Point A to Point B" traveler, he was also interested in genealogy and we took several trips that concentrated on searching for ancestral graves. Had he lived into retirement years, I feel sure we would have continued to do that.
How would you describe the type of people he has written about so far? Hicks? Dumb? Uncultured? Or do you see wisdom and an understanding of the human condition?
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JoanP posted the quote I was going to post. But I carried it on:
"A man becomes his attentions. His observations and curiosity, they make and remake him." Do you think that's true?
Here's another "New ways of seeing can disclose new things....Do new things make for new ways of seeing?"
Here is a paradox: Heat-Moon is all about seeing new things, finding new ways of seeing. And yet he celebrates to old couple who have happily lived in the same place, running the same grocery store, their whole lives. (Of course, he also celebrates the man who is building a boat to satisfy his dream of sailing away).
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"What type interests him?" I'd bet he chose which interviews he included and which he didn't. I feel he shows us people who are content with their lives sharply contrasted with those that aren't. The ones that are content so far consist in people who are like the blue highways, living in an older culture. The discontented are those in the modern culture (the engineer) or who wish they were (the bored teenagers with nothing to do).
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Since I read the book covers, I was pretty sure that he was going to see something different using the blue highways, instead of the freeways, but with his background, an English professor w/doctorate plus a degree in Photo Journalism, I just took it for granted that he was going to collect whatever came up, even using the tape recorder. I believe he mentions that it took him 3 months to make the trip and four years in a library, to write the book. I wonder if he was still living in his Ghost ???????. A homeless man with a bed of his own available every night. Maybe he parked in the library parking lot?? Hahahaha
It sounds like he was very respectful toward the people he interviewed and I think he chose what he thought would interest the readers and that they might become fans of his writing. I think any author would does the same thing.
I thought I asked if you would travel down a road to see your gggrandtfather's grave, meaning, "Would you(as a single woman) travel at dusk down that road which was a loooong walk in the woods, knowing that you would be walking back in the dark? In a territory that you knew little to nothing about??" Not me, don't think so!
I have been working on genealogy for about 30 years and I take a good look around before I investigate any unknown cemetery.
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AdoAnnie, I probably misread your question. No, I wouldn't walk into any woods alone at dusk for any reason.
I suspect there are a lot of tales that he didn't use in this book. I like the way he picks one for the story focus.
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Don't miss MaryZ's link to Rugby!!
I think we need to make plans to go to MaryZ's hometown and make a day trip or better yet, stay in one or two of the B&B's for a night or two in Rugby.. Anyone else getting their traveling genes up and ready to leave today? Don't miss Rugby. And afterward, we will see the towns that MaryZ does know about and she will be our leader! We must wait for Rugby to open its historical village after March 10, I think.
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Come on down!
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Pedlin, I think we must have passed close to Elsah, if not through it, on our way south last summer. I'll have to put it in our itinerary for our next trip.
My cousin, a woman my age, and I were in North Dakota a few years ago, looking for our great grandmother's grave and for our grandmother's childhood home. It was dusk, and we certainly would have taken the opportunity to walk out to the grave - but it was the year of much much rain (2008) and a tree blocked our way on the country road, so we weren't able to get to the grave or the homestead. Don't know if we'll ever get the chance again - we were certainly off the beaten track.
My husband and I are great talkers when we are in our local coffee shop and when we are on the road. We've had some wonderful conversations. About a year and a half ago, when he and our daughter-in-law and granddaughter were traveling to Georgia to welcome our son home from Afghanistan, they stopped in a restaurant in Indiana. The waitress was friendly and they chatted and told her why they were making the trip - dinner was on the restaurant that night. I don't remember the name, but he has it in his computer and we also got a Christmas card from the owner, because my husband sent a letter to the newspaper down there, thanking the restaurant for being so kind.
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What a heart warming story, NL! There are good people no matter where one goes! :) :)
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So far, we have evites to Rugby, TN, (as long as we don't flirt with MaryZ's husband), and the Great River Road - with lunch reservations at Elsah's. Not bad after the first leg of the journey. I'm really enjoying your stories too as we move along the road. Thanks for the picture of the Catalpa tree, MaryZ. I've never seen anything like them.
"It sounds like he was very respectful toward the people he interviewed."
Annie Yes, he does - and the people he's meeting are not as highly educated as he is. In return, they are curious about him, including him in their private lives. He must not be threatening or condescending in any way.
"I feel he shows us people who are content with their lives sharply contrasted with those that aren't." JoanK
I've noticed that too, Joan. A question for you - does the author feel the same contentment with his own life?
You asked if we think this is true - "A man becomes his attentions. His observations and curiosity, they make and remake him." Maybe this is part of the healing process - maybe he will come home as content as these people he meets along the road.
Sometimes it's hard to understand living in such remote places - though they all seem to crave, and receive the social interactions where they are. Most of the contented people we have met are older folks - I have read ahead, and wonder about those teenagers he meets in Wallace, North Carolina will feel that way, ever!
Are you ready to head into NC? I've lost all track of time since Easter. Did you notice the carloads of families heading to the beach? I spotted beach balls crammed in with the kids...
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JoanP: " does the author feel the same contentment with his own life?" Clearly not -- it has fallen apart, his marriage and job (possibly his career as a teacher, given the competition for academic jobs) both gone. He's looking to figure out how to live his own life.
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He talks about being in the Piedmont. The term seems to be used widely in North Carolina. But I became familiar with the term in Maryland, through a book written by the son of Arthur Godfrey (who he refers to in the boo k as a Piedmont farmer, but some of us remember as a radio/TV personality).
I couldn't find the old book I had, but kindle has an updated edition "Field Guide to the Piedmont" by Michael Godfrey. The Piedmont is a strip of land running in a loose S south from New York to Alabama, 25 miles wide at its narrowest (in D.C.), a hundred miles wide in Georgia and Alabama. It's with goes from the fall line (for example Great Falls) West to the mountains. You can tell if you're in the Piedmont if the land is rolling and the soil is red clay with lots of rocks.
The line between the Piedmont (red clay soil) and the coastal plain (sandy soil) runs right through the middle of DC, and up Georgia Avenue in Maryland. You can tell when you cross it, because the land gets flatter and the vegetation changes color. The grass is literally greener in the Piedmont, and social class follows, with the poshest areas all in the Piedmont.
I grew up with that vibrant green vegetation, and trees elsewhere never look right to me. I was fascinated to learn that it's all based on what's under the earth, and what happened to the land (an ancient mountain chain) millennia ago.
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The term "piedmont" is commonly used in Virginia and the Carolinas, not so much in Georgia or Alabama.
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Well, I lived in Georgia for many years, in northwest Atlanta suburbs, where the land rolls and the soil is red clay and full of rocks. So, I believe that I must have lived in the Piedmont area of Georgia. We had a hard time getting used to the soil but we learned that if the right things were planted and encouraged with proper watering and good fertilizer, most things would grow and grow and grow! And there's nothing greener than what grows well in the red, rock filled soil of some parts of our country, especially in Georgia.
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I'm probably a little ahead, since we haven't talked about his Outer Banks jaunt, but before I forget, I wanted to list these websites for Ninety Six, SC. Since the park ranger talked about the future development of the Star Fort, I wanted to see just what they did with it since Least Heat Moon visited it. The first has a nice little video, the second is a history of Ninety Six in the 1700s.
http://www.townofninetysixsc.com/
http://www.carolana.com/SC/Towns/Ninety_Six_SC.html
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Thank you for those links, Frybabe. That's an area I have longed to visit but have not been - and now, will not be - able to do.
He's moving across a big area very rapidly! Of course, he has a long way to go!
I haven't quite formed an opinion about his choices about whom/what he will include in his narrative.
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Callie, I thought for a while there that Least Heat Moon might have set out on this journey to learn more about his white ancesters. He wrote about the "blurred photograph" of the first immigrant, William Trogdon's tombstone....said he grew up determined to find that tombstone someday. Now he learns that the grave is underwater - and that the original stone had been moved to a nearby museum. Two things surprised me about this North Carolina visit. He learns that William Trogdon was shot - and then buried by his SONS right there where he fell. I get the feeling that he knows more about those sons than he's telling us. If he knew nothing more, wouldn't he have spent more time looking for this branch of the Trogdon famly and their offspring there in North Carolina?
The other thing - he's told that the original tombstone had been moved to a nearby museum...and yet he doesn't stick around long enough to find that tombstone he grew up thinking about. Did you think that was a bit odd. I know if I'd come such a distance, and this was my destination, I'd do some research while I was there. In fact, I have done it - would love to do more.
I'm think beginning to understand why he has chosen this circular route, rather than take an east-west trip across the mid-section of the country. Need to think about it some more.
I'm wondering about his choices of the characters he chose to include too. I'm curious to see if there is a thread that is stitching their stories together. I'm ready to believe that he's not looking for any more Trogdons in North Carolina - that after the death of William Trogdon, the whole clan got out of their - migrating to MO.
In North Carolina, he learns his ancestral grandfather was shot and killed for no apparent reason by Colonel Daniel Fanning (http://www.nchistoricsites.org/horsesho/dfanning.htm)...Maybe he's here to find out WHY it happened, rather than to find the original tombstone?
Here's some background on Daniel Fanning:
He moved to the Pee Dee area of South Carolina when he was about 19 and eventually became an Indian trader, becoming acquainted with both the Catawba and Cherokee. At some point near the beginning of the Revolution, he claimed a group of Whigs attacked and robbed him, resulting in him becoming a rabid Tory (loyalist to the British Crown).
Throughout the Revolution, Fanning wreaked havoc upon his Patriot adversaries, joining with both the British and Cherokee in his exploits in South Carolina. Whig forces captured him repeatedly and he escaped just as often.
By 1781 he had made his way back into North Carolina, following Lord Cornwallis’ troops. He set up camp near Cox’s Mill on the Deep River in present-day Randolph County, launching repeated attacks on area Whigs. The hostilities in central North Carolina as a result of clashes between Fanning’s Loyalists and area Patriots resulted in a bitter and violent backcountry civil war. Colonel Daniel Fanning (http://www.nchistoricsites.org/horsesho/dfanning.htm)
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Maybe Daniel Fanning's motivation for the killing ties in to the North/South Carolina stories - the disappearance of the first settlement on Roanoke Island and the and then Old Ninety Six which sits astride the Cherokee Trail. (We're almost there, Fry.) Thanks for the links - will put them into the heading.
All these wars, or struggles over land - with innocent people getting killed. Is this the history, the story of William Least Heat Moon's roots that he has set out to understand?
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JoanP
Least Heat Moon's grandfather was shot because he was helping the Patriots??, I think. Here's a link to the Cherokee Path.
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Old_Cherokee_Path
I am liking where LHM is traveling. (in Georgia for me) I've heard but not seen the Trappist Monastery but know of it in Conyers. In that part of the trip, I am really enjoying his thoughts on the Thomas Merton book, "Seven Story Mountain".
I am in the wrong place in my reading, aren't I? Sorry about that!
Frybabe,the links are so informative.
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Here's a quote from the interview which I linked earlier. It just seems to be one answer of why WLHM took off to circle America in the '80's after losing his job and his wife.
WILLIAM LEAST HEAT-MOON: My theory is it comes from the historic fact we are all from the other side of the planet. I know there are American Indian tribes that deny that, but I think archaeology and anthropology show that all of the so-called Native American tribes did indeed come from the Eastern Hemisphere. We’re all the descendants of travelers. And with the exception of people of African descent, virtually all of our ancestors came here wanting to find better territory. I think it’s genetic memory functioning — when life gets this way or that way, and we’re not really happy with it, what do we do? Put a kit bag over one shoulder and head out for the road because that’s where solutions might lie. Somewhere out there is an answer to why a life is as it is"
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I am surprised no one has said anything about the Outer Banks. Surely someone has been there (not me).
I got a kick out of his encounter with Brenda the waitress. I guess the place was an exception to his calendar rule.
Adoannie, I like the map you found. I stopped reading, temporarily, in the middle of the Trappist Monastery. I wanted to finish my taxes. Ah yes, wasn't that the spark one of the reasons for the Revolutionary War?
Back to the monastery, do you get the impression that LHM was not exactly comfortable in that environment? It didn't stop him from hanging around though. The meals he described there were a little startling, not the amount, but the food combinations.
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Oh, my! I have discovered how to follow Least-Moon's daily travels via the satellite picture on the Map Quest "get directions" route. I may never get anything else accomplished during the rest of this discussion!!!! :D
Following the route on South Carolina 34, there appear to be quite a few developed areas and what look like large rural homes.
What is your definition of "reconstruction"?
Re: sharecropper cabins, Least-Moon says, "Only on humanitarian grounds can a traveler approve the nationally standardized boxes replacing them."
Does he have a romanticized view of "the old days"?
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Does he have a romanticized view of "the old days"?
Not sure, Callie. Maybe not so much a romanticized view but more of a dislike for the new bulldozing over the old without regard or respect?
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Frybabe, The sharecropper cabins shown if you scroll down through these pictures look very much like ones I've seen in the Mississippi Delta area. Why would anyone not want to move into something better - even if it is a " standardized box?
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/a_f/brown/photos.htm (http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/a_f/brown/photos.htm)
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Frybabe, yes, the Outer Banks -- I went with my daughter and her partner from Nag's Head down to Okracoke. Cape Hatteras. It's been a few years. Wonderful beaches, and thankfully not all developed. I loved the lighthouses. We drove down, but were on a boat for part of the journey. I can't remember if it was a ferry or if we had to leave the car someplace. I drove back to Nag's Head and the girls rode their bikes. Kind of barren, as I recall. Not a lot of activity along that narrow stretch.
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Oh, we cannot skip over the Outer Banks!. We're turning into 'gotta-get-there drivers. The Outer Banks of North Carolina has been our vacation spot for years and years! Where did you and the girls stay, Pedln? Kitty Hawk? Nag's Head? Or in the more developed areas up by Duck?
Besides climbing those mountainous sand dunes, one of our favorite vacation things to do was to drive over to Manteo for the outdoor production of "The Lost Colony." Our kids learned the story before they could talk!
What happened in Manteo is so important to our history - to the relationship between the native Americans and the colonists! I think this is the reason Heat Moon - "Wm" - included the story in this book. Here's more on the play, The Lost Colony
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Colony_%28play%29).
There's so much more - I've got to get to gym class - but hope you haven't driven off by the time I get back.
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Oh Outer Banks, we spent our honeymoon (part of it) on Outer Banks and I still remember one really neat lighthouse. We went all up the East Coast for some reason.
I am LOVING the memories you all have put here. This is a unique and very special discussion, just look what we're learning about some of our readers we've never known before. Love it!
We were of that era, tho, weren't we? "See the USA in your Chevrolet, America is asking you to call."
I can still hear Dinah Shore singing it. And we did, didn't we? With no air conditioning. Remember those strange net sort of seat ....cushions you could put in the car so you wouldn't stick to the seat in the heat?
And NOW who is doing it? Retirees! And living in their cars, sleeping in Wal Marts, 60 Minutes did a big show on it recently. Why?
Frybabe, that saddle looks like an old Stubben Siegfried I have up in the barn. Wonderful saddle, you almost could not fall out of it if you tried.
And Ninety Six!! I live 50 miles from Ninety Six and have never been there. Isn't that always the way? What wonderful links, too, I've learned a lot about it.
How interesting this country is. You don't need to go to England to find interesting quaint people and places, we're quaint right here. That's why Charles Kuralt did so well with his pieces.
And Roanoak Island. I used to have a quote memorized about the Scuppernong and I've half forgotten it, but it was written by Sir Walter Raleigh's report back, something like In 1615 we rounded Roanoak Island, and the smell was as sweet as if we had been in any garden, and grapes grew abundantly, even climbing up to the tallest trees, and we think the like is not to be found...That, apparently, was the first mention of the Scuppernong grape, which was originally found there. The original Mother Vine is (so far as I know) still alive in Manteo. Didn't Andy Griffith live in Manteo? Or does he?
I'm way behind you in the reading. I was sideswiped by the blindstiff which LHM was taken for by the man in Grayville. Don't you love how he faithfully (?) records these conversations as if he's looking for a truth, any truth, to get his bearings?
And Ghost Dancing! Just like today, living in the car.
Did anybody notice the vade mecum? I haven't seen that in years. Leaves of Grass and Black Elk Speaks for him. Wouldn't be for me.
It made me wonder what MY vade mecum would be? IF you had to take an in print book: no e-Books. Vade from the same root as Vadis in the expression Quo Vadis, Domine? Meaning go, and mecum: with me, what your (almost literally) Go To Book is? What book YOU consider important enough to pack on a road trip? Something comforting, is that why he picked a book of poetry and one of...what? Biography?
I love that expression. Go with me: my "vade mecum."
I get the feeling he's on a quest.
4. Were you aware of the extent of Dickens' travels in the US? Oh gosh, yes, his remarks upon touring the US and his book American Notes nearly started a war hahahaha
From the BBC, fascinating article, the entire article and his remarks might make some of you angry: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17017791
On his first visit to America in 1842, English novelist Charles Dickens was greeted like a modern rock star. But the trip soon turned sour, as Simon Watts reports.
On Valentine's Day, 1842, New York hosted one of the grandest events the city had ever seen - a ball in honour of the English novelist Charles Dickens.
Dickens was only 30, but works such as Oliver Twist and the Pickwick Papers had already made him the most famous writer in the world.
The cream of New York society hired the grandest venue in the city - the Park Theatre - and decorated it with wreaths and paintings in honour of the illustrious visitor.
There was even a bust of Dickens hanging from one of the theatre balconies, with an eagle appearing to soar over his head.
Dickens and his wife, Catherine, danced most of the night in the company of around 3,000 guests.
"If I should live to grow old," the novelist told a dinner the following night, "the scenes of this and other evenings will shine as brightly to my dull eyes 50 years hence as now".
But a visit which had started so well quickly turned into a bitter dispute, known as the "Quarrel with America"....more
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"I get the feeling he's on a quest."
Ginny! So good to see you here. Was hoping to meet up with you in South Carolina (what's a loblolly tree?) but this is a really pleasant surprise to see you here in Manteo. I agree with you - Least Heat Moon seems to be on a quest - which wasn't really clear to him when he started out, I don't think.
About "The Lost Colony" - the story of the disappearance of the first colony in the New World...Manteo, the birthplace of the first baby to be born here - do you remember the name of the little one?
I think that when Heat Moon returned, he researched the early attempts to colonize the area. Turns out, the story in the Lost Colony that portrayed the war-like Indians who wiped out the poor defenseless colonists was probably not an whole story. Heat Moon tells how the colonists depended on the Indians for survival, how natives greeted them, smiling, of joy and kindness -tells of how Sir Walter Raleigh's cousin, Sir Robert Greenville - saw them as savages, burned their village, shot them, beheaded them...
Heat Moon writes that England learned nothing from the Spanish mistakes pillaging the New World.
Manteo today is like a Disney beach town...looks like a restored Elizabethan village. not a place you go to find out more about the past. Of course, the colonists never returned here - went on to Jamestown instead...where the Indians, well, that's for another day.
(They have a neat Christmas shop - very popular in July! ;))
But
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Interesting that you should ask that, My DIL just told me recently the difference in Loblolly and other pine trees:
From: http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/loblolly_pine.htm
(http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/Plants/Loblolly%20Pine/pinea1.gif)
Loblolly Pines are large trees, growing up to 100 feet tall. Along with Eastern White Pine and Virginia Pine, it is one of our most common pine trees. The easiest way to tell them apart is to count the needles. Loblolly Pines have clusters of three needles, Virginia Pines have clusters of two, and Eastern White Pines have clusters of five.
Loblolly Pines grow in forests and fields. In fields, they are a pioneer tree, meaning they are one of the first trees to grow.
The trunks of Loblolly Pines can be up to three feet wide. The bark is thick, scaly, and dark grey. Underneath are brown layers.
Leaves are needles, in clusters of three, with each one being about six or seven inches long. Needles stay green all year.
It appears that Andy Griffith has died, I do seem to remember it now, and his widow applied for a permit to tear down his coastal house on Manteo, this was last March I think and I don't know what happened to any of it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2013/03/21/tearing-down-any-griffiths-n-c-coastal-home-should-anyone-care/
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A nice little cottage in Manteo. I've heard it was/is a Sears house -
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdfeQLdcdrGVJLLlYfsOtMQ0oMfB3Pn_b3QpjsqMuW5eF5A-Q9)
He was born in Mount Airy, N.C., in 1926. He got his first break in 1944 when he landed a small part in "The Lost Colony," the outdoor drama that is still performed on Roanoke Island on the Outer Banks, and he returned for several summers until he worked his way up to playing Sir Walter Raleigh. Later, when he came into some money, he bought a home on Manteo and spent quite a bit of time there.
Andy Griffith -
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Yes, Ginny, I saw vade mecum. I just love coming across Latin phrases when reading.
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And I love noticing the different birds and the trees as he moves from one region to the next, Fry. Thanks for the loblolly info, Ginny! Not quite as dramatic as the catalpa, but lovely. Do they grow near you? Did I understand that you live quite near Old Ninety Six where Heat Moon first noticed them??
I can't imagine Charles Dickens in Manteo. This just doesn't compute!
I looked up that 1942 American tour of his and found this:
"At the time of his first visit in 1842, Dickens had finished his fifth novel, BARNABY RUDGE, and was a spectacularly famous novelist. He had heard and read extraordinary things about the United States of America, and wanted to see it and form his own judgments. He traveled by steamship with his wife Catherine, leaving their four children behind in England.
He found much of America charming and appealing, especially in his first weeks. The Atlantic crossing was extremely uncomfortable; Dickens found his stateroom small and cramped, and, like most of the passengers, he suffered from seasickness. Arriving in Boston on January 22, 1842, he spent most of the next two weeks there, then went on to explore more of New England, visiting Worcester, Hartford, and New Haven.
He spent the latter half of February and the first week of March in New York City, and then proceeded to Pennsylvania, Washington, D.C., and Maryland. In April he visited Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, and New York, and in May he toured Niagara Falls, Toronto, Ontario, and Montreal, returning to New York in June and departing for England on June 7, 1842. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/dickens/life_journeys.html
No mention of Manteo. Will keep looking. Maybe he didn't have a speaking engagement in Manteo, but was interested in seeing where England's first attempt to colonize the New World took place.
Here's a question for you - We're getting ready to vote for the April group discussion. Would you be interested in reading Dickens' American Notes (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/675/675-h/675-h.htm) - a travelogue, detailing his trip to North America from January to June, 1842.? Or do you think we will have enough traveling for a while when we get back to MO with Least Heat Moon?
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Sharecroppers cabins. If you've read "Now Let Us Praise Famous Men", James Agee describes these cabins: no, I don't romanticize them.
We spent one vacation on the Outer Banks, and loved it. But I always remember my neighbor: she had had triplets, giving her 5 children under the age of eight. She was overwhelmed. Her husband, thinking to help, arranged for them to take a vacation on the Outer Banks. So she packed up all the equipment needed for the 5 kids, exhausted they drove down there, and unpacked all the equipment and kids again. They had just finished, and were taking a breath when someone banged on the door. "You can't stay, You have to leave. There's a hurricane coming!" So they packed up everything again, drove back, and unpacked everything."
"I'll never go on a vacation again" she said. "It's too exhausting".
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast) ~ Mississippi, Alabama, Louisisana
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 15-17 PART FOUR Texas, New Mexico
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
Let's continue the list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal. (Just post your favorites and we'll add them to a list.)
Part FOUR ~ South by Southwast
1. Where do you say the East ends and the West begins? How does Least Heat Moon react to the openness, the emptiness, the solitude of the West?
2. Highway 21 "The bison laid the route, a nation would follow." Can you locate it on a map?
3. Why did Least Heat Moon pull off the route to Dime Box, Texas - a small town with only two streets? What did he learn in Claud Tyler's barber shop about change in Dime Box?
4. The only Apache Least Heat Moon ever talked to. "The old blood still showed." What impression does the limping WWII Navy vet who is hitch-hiking 500 miles across Texas to see sick brother, make on LHM?
5. Highway 29 west of Pecos River - no towns, no plants, nada. "Men go into deserts to lose themselves." Is this why Least Heat Moon chose this route? Solitude?
6. Fort Stockton - Mexican cafe - one table, a Chicano, an Indian, a Negro. "What a litany of grievances this table could recite." And yet they break bread together here, unlike in the Deep South!
7. Manhattan Cafe, Deming, New Mexico Two bars: the Central, English, the Western, Spanish. Were you not surprised that Least Heat Moon chose the Western? Does a language barrier divide them?
8. Virginia Breen, owner of the Desert Den Bar & Filling Station - "we 've got a nice town, what's left of us." How can she be content in this remote place, "the end of things, down this way"?
9. Do you understand what Least Heat Moon meant when he said it was the 4th time he crossed the Continental Divide that day?
10. What did you think of "the Boss," the voice in the darkness that night in Cave Creek, Arizona? Was this all a dream? Did the Boss mirror Least Heat Moon's preoccupation with his own problems?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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One paragraph at the end of Chap 8 really made me sit up and wonder how many of us has heard the history of Roanoke, Manteo, Virginia Dare??
"The highway wound into the dark trees again as it traversed the very place where the English colonies disappeared where the English, the last group leaving behind America's
mystery word---Croatoan--carved in a stockade timber. Roanoke Island gave a shadowy sense of an older time that Plymouth Rock, surrounded, dwarfed, and protected in stone and steel, has lost. A man told me, "Out on Roanoke, you can "feel" the beginning."
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Life has intervened, so I'm not up on the reading, and my comments may be irrelevant, but here goes. Virginia Dare was a name from my childhood, but she wasn't the first child born to european parents on this continent. As far as we know, that honor belongs to Snorri Thorfinnsson, born sometime between 1004 and 1013 in the ill-fated Norse colony in Vinland. His parents escaped in time, and he later became a major figure in the Christianization of Iceland, and several of his descendants were bishops.
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Annie...a little more on the Croatans:
"The Croatan lived in current Dare County, an area encompassing the Alligator River, Croatan Sound, Roanoke Island, and parts of the Outer Banks, including Hatteras Island. Now extinct as a tribe, they were one of the Carolina Algonquian peoples, numerous at the time of English encounter in the 16th century
It is possible that some of the survivors of the Lost Colony of Roanoke may have joined the Croatan. Governor White finally reached Roanoke Island on August 18, 1590, three years after he had last seen them in Virginia, but he found his colony had been long deserted. The buildings had collapsed and "the houses taken down". The few clues about the colonists whereabouts included the letters "CRO" carved into a tree, and the word "CROATOAN" carved on a post of the fort."
Who knows - little Virginia Dare may have lived after all! We do know that she was never heard of again - many believed the Croatan caused the colony to flee, with only time to carve "Croatoan" on the post - and they were unable to survive beyond the fort.
Pat - remember the jingle? "Say it again, Virginia Dare" I think it was an ad for wine, Bruce thinks syrup.
Snorri Thorfinnsson, huh? How did you know that? Saving it for the next time you're on a quiz show?
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Trying to catch up with y'all this morning, speeding into the "Deep South" for breakfast at the Deluxe Cafe in Darlington, South Carolina -
The Deluxe Cafe (http://books.google.com/books?id=WaaI4g1rWe4C&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=deluxe+cafe+darlington+SC+blue+highways&source=bl&ots=WTvvvOOkxW&sig=JqgiuCER0x59bmYj6x4OOF2PG2I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9SMfU6q9MtDOkQenk4CQBw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false) Doesn't it look welcoming? - Heat Moon had expected a warm friendly Southern greeting by a grandmotherly type, but instead got surly Brenda- Yes, the breakfast comes with grits and all...if you "ast for it."
The Cafe is still there - just remember to ask for what you see listed on the menu... ;)
We need Ginny back here (once the Latin exam is over) to describe what we might see on the Old Ninety Six today - compared to what Least Heat Moon saw back in 1975.
LHM writes that he sees the remnants of the old sharecroppers cabins still standing - I gather they weren't inhabited, but Fry writes of the "nationally standardized boxes replacing them"...Fry, have I got it right? Can these be seen from the road along side the old sharecroppers' cabins? I wonder what happened to those jobs?
"Only on humanitarian grounds can a traveler approve the nationally standardized boxes replacing them." - Fry -
Was this: (http://www.carolana.com/SC/Towns/Images/Ninety_Six_SC.jpg)
supposed to replace this?
(http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/a_f/brown/images/share6.jpg)
The Old Ninety Six - sits astride the Old Cherokee path -
(https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/images/a/a9/Old_Cherokee_Path.png)
The ranger fears that once the parkland is turned over to the Feds, it will be paved over to protect it from the hordes of visitors. Do you understand that LHM agrees with him, but has a dislike for the new bulldozing over the old without regard or respect, as Fry sees it? How do you pave over With respect for the past? Is respect for other cultures an underlying theme here? What are your feelings about this? The path, the remnants of the cabins? Should they be preserved out of respect or is their time past?
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JoanP, re: the replacements for sharecropper shanties....When I was following his route on the Google map satellite pictures, I saw several places where there were "cookie cutter" houses (similar to the ones built in the early 50's in "planned neighborhoods"). I thought he was referring to something like that, not another wooden structure out by itself.
(I found the race track on the satellite picture, too.)
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Callie...please tell me what you are doing to see these places. I do have access to Google maps... So you can see the Race Track? Didn't you need an address or just the name of the race track? I'll bet you couldn't find Swamp Guinea's Fish Lodge on your map - read that it closed shortly after Least Heat Moon drove through...reopened somewhere nearby though.
But the Trappist Monastery still stands. Can you see the monastery from the road? The water tower that caught LHM's attention?
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4393685418_7f67735623_m.jpg)
At the Monastery website (http://"http://www.trappist.net/plan-your-visit), I found this invitation:
Have you ever just wanted to get away from it all? If so, the Monastery is the perfect place for you to escape to. Surround yourself in the Monastery’s natural beauty where you can rest, reflect, relax and learn about the monastic life. You are welcome to join us whenever you’d like
At every stop, LHM seems to learn something, another piece of the puzzle he's trying to solve on his journey. Fry, did you really think he was uncomfortable here. What do you think he got from this stop along the way? Obviously it was important to him..devoted a lot of time and ink...
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JoanP, I was actually on Map Quest when I saw the race track. All of the following is a satellite view - not a street view.
I asked for directions from Darlington to Ninety Six and chose the options: Shortest Distance, No Highways, No Tolls.
I clicked Satellite (in the top right hand corner of the map). That brought up a picture with the route marked in purple. Lucky that it was Highway 34.
I used the + - lines at the right hand side to bring the image in closer and used the directional arrows (just above the + -) to click along the purple marked route (Highway 34). This is a VERY slow process.
Just west of Darlington I spotted a big oval area and brought it in as close as possible. It wasn't identified as the race track - but was the only thing I saw along the route that looked like a possibility.
At Ninety Six, I backed up the view and saw "Ninety Six National Historical Site" south of the town of Ninety Six. Rte 248 was on its left and I zoomed in to what looked like a Visitors Center.
I did this same thing asking for directions from Conyers, GA to The Monastary. Turns out that address is 2625 Highway 2125SW. (The directions said "if you reach The Monastary of the Holy Ghost, you've gone 0.1 miles too far". It's labeled on the map but there's a very short road just north of there.
This is a Google Maps link to the street view:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2625+Georgia+212/@33.582528,-84.068513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sg9m0URHzIsyu3FjB0NSyzQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88f44dc974b0fc4d:0xb98a1971decb86e0!6m1!1e1 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/2625+Georgia+212/@33.582528,-84.068513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sg9m0URHzIsyu3FjB0NSyzQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88f44dc974b0fc4d:0xb98a1971decb86e0!6m1!1e1)
I suspect it's the building you can see through the trees.
Use the circular arrow to move in a panoramic view and get an idea of what the countryside looks like.
TMI? Sorry 'bout that! ;D I'm way ahead in the reading - so I'm off to see what else I can find....
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OMT: http://www.trappist.net/ (http://www.trappist.net/) Monastery of the Holy Spirit, Conyers, GA
O.K., I'll stop now. :D
Sleep well, everyone and have pleasant dreams
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The monastery is certainly different than I pictured it. So modern looking.
Yes, JoanP, I did think he communicated a certain ill-defined discomfort. As I start (and I only just started) the next section, his seems to have had something of a revelation(?) or insight, a feeling of loss for the quiet, simple, peaceful, faithful place he just left - a mind shift of a sort, or a recognition of something within him, long ignored or suppressed, a kinship to those seeking an inner peace maybe. He does seem to gravitate to a simpler life, and/or of solitude. Perhaps the monastery visit helped in his emotional healing process over his divorce and job loss. The discomfort I read into his earlier comments may have been his unconscious (or conscious a times?) efforts to avoid emotional turmoil. Does that make any sense? I think I've been in that emotional situation once or twice.
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Goodness, Callie! I rode along Route 212 and can almost see the monastery from the road! You're right - it is addictive! You are also right - it is slooow going. I think the others have left us in the dust! Where are you in the reading? You say you are way ahead...
'a feeling of loss for the quiet, simple, peaceful, faithful place he just left' Frybabe, yes, it makes a lot of sense!
When Least Heat Moon left the monastery, he wrote, "Coming here is a call to be quiet. When I go quiet I stop hearing myself and start hearing the world outside me." That seems to be exactly what he did!
It's a good thing he had this time of peace and rest - after which he wrote - "that evening in Talapoosa County was to change the direction of the journey." What do you think he meant?
Where is everyone? Have you already sailed through Alabama, Mississippie, Louisiana or just beginning? I'm going to admit I'm eager to pass through this part of the country - find it depressing. Right now I'm asking myself why. How about you? Have you ever spent much time in any of these southern-most states? I've only been to New Orleans ~ as a tourist, I'll admit. Never did get to know the people as Least Heat Moon did in the short time he was there...
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I'm on the Natchez Trail Parkway at the moment.
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Didn't realize we're starting Pert 3 today. Off to read it.
Ocean lover that I am, I can't believe he was that near the ocean, and didn't go there. But he seems to be more interested in people than in nature. That makes sense, if he's looking for people who have figured out how to live this crazy life of ours. Some people figure it out in nature, other elsewhere. The Trappist monastery was certainly an important experience for him.
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Joan, I've actually finished the book - but I'm re-reading the sections to look for details as the discussion goes along .
My late husband was from the northern part of Mississippi but what we're reading about the southern part doesn't sound all that much different. I've been on part of the Natchez Trace at the northern end.
The Choctaws were "removed" to the part of Indian Territory (Oklahoma) where I grew up.
Links to the Choctaw Nation (MS and OK) http://www.choctaw.org/aboutMBCI/history/ (http://www.choctaw.org/aboutMBCI/history/) and
http://www.choctawnation.com/history/ (http://www.choctawnation.com/history/)
Most of the white settlers came into that area from Appalachia - many after the Civil War.
"The Mercy Seat" by Rilla Askew is about some of them. She is from southeastern Oklahoma.
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Selma will not be an easy stop, Joan...but you MUST meet James Walker. I forget, are you reading on Kindle? If you have a book, there are photos grouped together in the middle do the book...James Walker's picture is there.
Oops, I missed your posts, Callie and Fry - glad you are with us on this rocky road.
So that's where the Choctaw went when they had to leave Mississippi!. I'm going to read your link now -thanks!
ps I 'm hoping Wim Heat Moon meets up with a Choctaw or two in OK!
pps Callie, can you channel the Natchez Trace Parkway? I understand it's a new road now.
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Well, now because I was forgetting some of what I read, I started back in the Monastery and am now behind where I was (good grief)! So am sort of reading the book all over again!
Selma was disappointing since the citizens told him nothing had really changed! I felt so so sorry for the Vietnam Nam vet who had hoped that by learning a job in the service, he would be able to find a job when he was discharged and that was not going to happen. I hope things are better now.
I will now search for ya'll wherever you are.
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Annie...you're in Alabama...so are we. I know how you felt to hear, "ain't nothin changed."
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Yea! I got my reply button back. Post from The Library:
For some odd reason, I am missing the reply button in the Blue Highways discussion. I wanted to know what ever happened to James Walker of Selma. I got my answer. In Blue Highways Revisited, it states that he died in 2000 at age 46 of an aneurism. http://books.google.com/books?id=WaaI4g1rWe4C&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=James+Walker+Selma+AL&source=bl&ots=WTvvxKOfxY&sig=O-u-58bJjeXvUfAC605ZAFLG_e0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BJMhU-P5FaGR0AHW7YDwCg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=James%20Walker%20Selma%20AL&f=false Scroll around and look at the photos, etc. I noticed that his log pages had more than actually got into the book, like the diagram of the Sandy Creek Resevoir. Oh, and the picture of the grave stone we wondered about. The sons were making a statement, for sure.
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Good morning, Fry!
Wonderful photos! Thank you! Just to put that site into context, the pictures were not taken by Least Heat Moon, but several years later and published in a volume called Blue Highways Revisited. From Amazon:
In 1978, William Least Heat-Moon made a 14,000-mile journey on the back roads of America, visiting 38 states along the way. In 1982, the popular Blue Highways, which chronicled his adventures, was published. Three decades later, Edgar Ailor III and his son, Edgar IV, retraced and photographed Heat-Moon’s route, culminating in Blue Highways Revisited, released for publication on the thirtieth anniversary of Blue Highways. A foreword by Heat-Moon notes, “The photographs, often with amazing accuracy, capture my verbal images and the spirit of the book. Taking the journey again through these pictures, I have been intrigued and even somewhat reassured that America is changing not quite so fast as we often believe. The photographs, happily, reveal a recognizable continuity – but for how much longer who can say – and I'm glad the Ailors have recorded so many places and people from Blue Highways while they are yet with us.
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"Taking the journey again through these pictures, I have been intrigued and even somewhat reassured that America is changing not quite so fast as we often believe." Least Heat Moon
Funny, I had been feeling so low when I went to bed after reading of Heat Moon's encounters in the South - how nothing had really changed since the marches, Voting Rights, etc...the racial prejudice and bigotry...
When I woke up, I had a different perspective - realized time had passed since LHMoon's book was published, that there was reason to hope conditions would improve after reading James Walker's plans and determination to get an education - and oh, Barbara Pierre in St. Martinsville, in Louisiana - the same thing, didn't you love her! Didn't you know things were going to change, despite the town gossips?
Change was coming...it was just takes time. It still is and will be...
The funny thing was coming to this realization, this perspective...and then reading that James Walker did in fact get his education, had a wife and children, became a children's guidance counselor..
And then to read Heat Moon's forward to Blue Highways Revisited decades later:
"Taking the journey again through these pictures, I have been intrigued and even somewhat reassured that America is changing not quite so fast as we often believe." Least Heat Moon
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If you're reading the book, you may have a photo section in the middle...pictures of James Walker in Selma and Barbara Pierre in St. Martinsville, LA. Don 't miss them!
Those photos were taken by Least Heat Moon on his trip.
(http://englischlehrer.de/texts/images/selma_1.jpg)
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Oh I love that Blue Highways Revisited, thank you, Frybabe, and it's allowed me to catch up to where I think you are. It's a quick way to catch up and not miss anything.
I went to college in the south in 1961, and I think it's quite heartening to see the changes since then. I also think that it's important to preserve the oral history as it were and what was the situation then, so people growing up today can see a difference. If, in fact, there really IS one. Recent revelations about a popular cook's perspectives have raised that issue. Again. Everybody loved the Help, everybody loved saying to themselves well of course I wouldn't be like the (bad) people depicted; this is just another chapter.
But at the same time, he's only a tourist, driving through. You can't judge anything or anybody by the offhand observations of people you encounter, (tho most people do, and form their opinions of that area forever frozen based on the 15 minute stop)...as you drive through a place, there may be (and always is) another side or perspective. And certainly not everybody on either side of the fence in an issue can be firmly put in one camp, either.
I like this statement: "The photographs, happily, reveal a recognizable continuity – but for how much longer who can say –" A recognizable continuity, what an interesting thing to say. Continuity may be one thing lacking to us in 2014.
I love the Revisited book and the photos. I am most struck by the cottonwood tree in Texas (you can really catch up fast) and the fact anybody would take a photo of it or think it was meaningful enough TO take a photo of and cut down every year. I think I need the book Revisited.
I would like to know exactly where we are, that is the page (if paperback) or chapter or? What city in Alabama? Selma?
There's another real change happening in America, which is exemplified by what we think of as "quaintness" of some of the photos, it's quaint now, it wasn't then. Along with regional dialects in speech and pronunciation, we're possibly losing some of that individuality as time progresses. Is that a good or bad thing, one wonders. Is it good we all sound like TV announcers? Is the "recognizable continuity" good or bad? So many issues this book brings up, not all instantly (a la 2014) solvable.
This has become somewhat addictive, I notice in the map above the "Old South Carolina State Road" appears to run smack thru my area. I can find no reference to it, today, that is, which road it might have been, they say the original route here is unsure. But there is a road which runs to Asheville through Spartanburg to Union a mile and a half from me, and there are old plantations out here, some quite fine, and of course Glenn Springs, the church of which remains, a famous spa resort town of the 1900's. Here's the colorful history of Glenn Springs, SC: http://library.sc.edu/blogs/newspaper/2011/08/09/glenn-springs-south-carolina/.
Some people, when they travel, (I think all travel is a quest) are looking hard for something meaningful, and take every word from the mouth of strangers as omens or more. Oracles maybe. SOMETIMES in some circumstances, they may also just be the musings of somebody having a bad day or heartburn. This reminds me of Studs Terkel, interviewing "the common man," tho how common each man is, I guess, is debatable.
I would like to start the book over, in fact, and probably will, this week, tho it seems a book to savor slowly and think about. You kind of want to read 3 pages and put it down and think about it.
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Hey Ginny! It's so good to see you here - you add so much already!
A few quick comments on your post - without getting into the specifics -
"it seems a book to savor slowly and think about. You kind of want to read 3 pages and put it down and think about it"
Hahaha, that's exactly why Pedln's dentist referred to this book as a "bathroom book!
"I LOVE those photos. They are a perfect compliment to the book."
Are you referring to the photos in the center of the paper copy of the book - or those from the link Frybabe posted, which were taken three decades later by Edgar Ailor III and his son, Edgar IV, who retraced and photographed Heat-Moon’s route, culminating in Blue Highways Revisited?
"I would like to know exactly where we are, that is the page (if paperback) or chapter or? What city in Alabama? Selma?"
Since we're not travelling in a convoy - stopping at the same places, we are taking the books by the different PARTS. Right now we are in Part 3 - which includes Chapters 1-14 - that covers Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana - That said, all comments are welcome, wherever you stop your car!
ps Trying very hard to stick to the schedule and dates in the heading whenever you are feeling lost.
I'll copy the schedule from the heading for you -
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast) ~ Mississippi, Alabama, Louisisana
Part Four ~ March 15-16(South by Southwest)Texas, New Mexico
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Oh yes, I did see that in the heading, thank you. What I could not figure out, being behind, and thinking these chunks were a hundred or so pages each was where you were exactly, Missisippi, Alabama, and Louisiana to me cover a good bit of territory.
Now I see it's only 36 pages, I expect that won't be an issue.
I was referring to the splendid photos in Frybabe's link to the Blue Highways Revisited book which I have ordered, the photos are very evocative.
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I had hoped the library had Blue Highways Revisited, but it doesn't. I would have loved to do both books at the same time.
Right now, I am just done with the gumbo and about ready to hit the road again. The dialect was difficult to understand in spots.
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Frybabe, I was able to order Revisited just now and my library has 8 copies with only 1 available. Hmmm, I wonder if those 7 copies are being read by one of our library's book disscusion groups. Wish you lived near here, I could get you a copy and send it over. But that is probably not such a good idea. I'm thinking that I also want my own copy so will look in 2nd hand book sites here online.
Ginny, As JoanP says, its great to have you on board!! I agree with your statements above. I truly want to reread this book and Revisited together. I might look to see if I can get a used BH's in hard copy. What I really need are more books to store on my TBR stack, which is already pilled up to the ceiling. But what the heck, what else do I have to do??? :D :D And like you, I want to read slowy and think about it more. BUUUUUUT!!! We do have to continue driving along his route, at his speed(50mph?, traveling only from 8am to 5pm, he's only traveling 45 mile a day) and try to do so in 31 days.
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Joan, several posts back, you asked if Least-Moon went through Oklahoma and if I could "channel" the Natchez Trace Parkway.
Least-Moon's route across Texas was about 115 miles south of the Oklahoma border.
The best I could do with "The Trace" was a satellite picture that, unfortunately, covered the roadway with a purple line. I don't have any addresses along the way to use for "street views".
I don't know if anyone else is from the west/southwest part of the country - but I'll be very interested in your comments about his travels through Texas.
I agree with his comments about where the West begins - and the main differences between West and East.
I mapped his route across Texas but the link to Map Quest won't open to that page. He traveled more than 900 miles from Carthage, TX to the first town he mentions in New Mexico.
As a comparison, the 900 miles he'd traveled before he entered Texas covered four states ( part of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana).
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Frybaby, I lost my reply button, also. I wonder why?? Anyway, I've had to stop for road construction (had to finish my taxes & take info to CPA) and now I am on a detour (need to finish my ftf book club book. I am enjoying the journey and can't wait to get back on track.
Sally
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Ginny - I enjoyed reading the link on the Glen Springs Hotel. I've never been to a spa, or experienced the healing water of natural springs. Came close once in Glenwood Springs in CO - but had no bathing suit on that trip.
I was about to suggest we all gather there - until I read to the end of the article to see that the hotel burned down to the ground in the 40's. Too bad!
Least Heat Moon wrote of the natural springs and artesian wells in SC. Are they everywhere? Sweet water, I think he called it...
Sally, sorry about the glitch earlier - where are you on the road? Back in the Trappist Retreat House, enjoying the natural springs, on the Natchez Trace...or way up front in Texas, keeping Callie & Frybabe company?
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Least Heat Moon wrote of the "sad history" of the Choctaw, forced to leave Mississippi forever..."sad, not because of the influx of settlers - after all, Indians had encroached upon each other for thousands of years. It's a sad history because of the shabby way the new people dealt with tribal Americans."
So, when he reached Selma, and listened to James Walker and Charles Davis, his attention shifts to the current problems of the oppressed minorities? Does it sound as if he has not experienced - or witnessed racial prejudice back in Columbia, MO? Did he think the marches thirteen years ago had changed things in the South before he got there - and learned differently? And now is saddened to learn that nothing had changed?
Fry - you've had enough of the good times - and the Cajuns in Louisiana (http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~jmeaux/cajun.html)? I sensed that underneath all those good times, they were making the best of a bad situation since their means of earning a living had been taken from them when Army Corps of Engineers ruined the bayou-fishing. I wonder how they are doing today? How are they living - Have their numbers diminished? Reminds me of how the Indians were displaced from their hunting grounds. Can't see Cajuns moving elsewhere, can you?
Just found this - "Over the years, many Cajuns and Creoles also migrated to the Beaumont and Port Arthur area of Southeast Texas, in especially large numbers as they followed oil-related jobs in the 1970s and 1980s, when oil companies moved jobs from Louisiana to Texas. However, the city of Lafayette is referred to as "The Heart of Acadiana" because of its location, and it is a major center of Cajun-Creole culture.
Looks like we could be following them into Texas, Fry! Maybe we'll find more mouth-watering gumbo in Texas?
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Look...this is from an interview with LHM - he's talking about Barbara Pierre from St. Martinsville! I loved this strong woman...
"Least Heat-Moon: I guess it's been three years since I've talked with her, but Barbara Pierre is still in St. Martinville. She's not been able to get back and complete her formal college education. She's still fighting the battles of racism in that little town, still suffering from it, still, quite apparently, scarred by these fights and battles, but still not giving in.
DB: When you met her the first time, did you have a sense that she was somehow further along her road than you were yours? That she had gone out and come back and made her peace with other people.
Least Heat-Moon: Yes, she had. She was another instructor for me on the trip, even though she was slightly younger than I was. She had been to where I was headed. She had gone out and come back. She'd been up north, to Norristown, Pennsylvania, suffered there, and then she came back home and decided to fight it out. I understand it even more now than I did then-after working onPrairyErth and really getting to know people in a small town, how difficult it is, day after day, to fight those battles. It's one thing to fight with strangers, it's another thing to fight with your neighbors. By fighting, I'm not talking about physically fighting, I'm talking about, "We don't see eye to eye on this, so we're going to have to live with these tensions, our separate views."
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That's very interesting. I loved her too. Does "Blue Highways Revisited" talk about her later life?
People like me who were "given" the opportunity for an education forget how rare that is in the world.
She has discovered the library, and has to fight for even this opportunity. With all the complaints I often have about our Public Libraries, I would fight to keep them available to all people!
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JoanK- I read that when the Blue Highways Revisited author tried to locate Barbara Pierre when in St. Martinsville, two women in a convenience store told him she died in 2004. That's all he wrote...
I wonder if anyone ever tried to contact her daughter when on these return visits. Remember how determined Barbara was to get an education for this little girl? I'll bet she did. About how old do you think she would she be now?
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"Blue Highways Revisited" is available in my local library. As soon as I have an opportunity to get there, I plan to check it out.
JoanP, I've "stopped" in the Texas Hill Country near Fredricksburg (one of my favorite areas) to wait for everyone to catch up. :D
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On the way to Texas this morning - determined to catch up with you, Callie! I understand that some are still enjoying the $4.50 special back at Swamp Guinea's Fish Lodge in North Georgia. (Do you believe for a minute the name means absolutely nothing?).
Please feel free to comment on anything at all from these earlier chapters. We're covering quite a bit of territory - without hearing from you! Should we be worried about you?
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Where have you always considered the dividing line between East and West? Where Heat Moon crosses the Brazos River into Texas is quite a dramatic change in scenery! I've never driven this route west, never visited this part of the country. Will admit the openness, the emptiness makes me uncomfortable. It would frighten me to be driving alone into the desert and the Texas hills. Maybe it's because it is unfamiliar territory - a fear of the unknown?
What makes this one of your favorite areas, Callie?
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The one thing that stands out for me from our discussion so far is that we all live in areas where there is fascinating history and character and nature available off the 4-lane, and many times we have often been unaware or just don't appreciate it. Sometimes just sitting in a local restaurant during tourist season is an education for me, listening to and sometimes participating in conversations about what people are looking for or looking at. And on a good day, I can head out and find new things close to home, things that move my thoughts in a different direction. Perspective changes, even on a short quest, sometimes.
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JoanP, thank you for the concern but there's no need to worry about me. I've been busy with things "in the real world" and haven't had time to do much "exploring" of the country through which our author is traveling.
I did think I should back off a bit with the links and maps because I sense that most of the participants are concentrating on the socio-economic aspects of his travels. I don't do as well with that kind of conversation as I do with the geographical/historical aspects.
You mentioned not feeling comfortable in wide open spaces. Although I've traveled extensively - both in the USA and Europe, I've lived all of my life in the Oklahoma/Texas panhandle/Colorado area. So I feel claustrophobic in big cities where the buildings are very close together.
I don't think I could ever happily live in, for instance, an apartment in an Eastern metropolitan area.
The "Hill Country" of Texas (where Fredricksburg is) is a beautiful wooded area with rivers and lakes. I took my granddaughter to an Intergenerational Elderhostel in that area. I love the .
Browse the links in this web site to get an idea of the area. http://www.visitfredericksburgtx.com/ (http://www.visitfredericksburgtx.com/) and this lengthy article about the German settlement there http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/hff03 (http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/hff03)
The eastern part of Texas/Oklahoma and western part of Arkansas/Missouri are heavily wooded and humid. I-35 is approximately the dividing line between that kind of physical geography and what most people think of as "the West".
More later.....
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I take back what I said about LHM not being interested in nature. he gives a correct species name for every bird he mentions. (almost unheard of in writing). I seem to remember that he took along a Peterson field guide to birds. As a birder, I love to think of him stopping to look up the name of birds he saw (presumably, if he couldn't find it, he didn't mention it).
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Funny, mentioning getting claustrophobic in cities. I get claustrophobic in wide open areas. There's probably a different name for it, but it's a similar feeling.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
|
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast) ~ Mississippi, Alabama, Louisisana
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Part Five ~ March 18-19(West by Southwest)Arizona, Utah, Nevada
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 15-17 PART FOUR Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
Let's bring in our own experiences and observations whenever possible.
Let's continue the list of Least Heat-Moon's philosophical observations, which make this so much more than a travel journal. (Just post your favorites and we'll add them to a list.)
Part FOUR ~ South by Southwast
1. Where do you say the East ends and the West begins? How does Least Heat Moon react to the openness, the emptiness, the solitude of the West?
2. Highway 21 "The bison laid the route, a nation would follow." Can you locate it on a map?
3. Why did Least Heat Moon pull off the route to Dime Box, Texas - a small town with only two streets? What did he learn in Claud Tyler's barber shop about change in Dime Box?
4. The only Apache Least Heat Moon ever talked to. "The old blood still showed." What impression does the limping WWII Navy vet who is hitch-hiking 500 miles across Texas to see sick brother, make on LHM?
5. Highway 29 west of Pecos River - no towns, no plants, nada. "Men go into deserts to lose themselves." Is this why Least Heat Moon chose this route? Solitude?
6. Fort Stockton - Mexican cafe - one table, a Chicano, an Indian, a Negro. "What a litany of grievances this table could recite." And yet they break bread together here, unlike in the Deep South!
7. Manhattan Cafe, Deming, New Mexico Two bars: the Central, English, the Western, Spanish. Were you not surprised that Least Heat Moon chose the Western? Does a language barrier divide them?
8. Virginia Breen, owner of the Desert Den Bar & Filling Station - "we 've got a nice town, what's left of us." How can she be content in this remote place, "the end of things, down this way"?
9. Do you understand what Least Heat Moon meant when he said it was the 4th time he crossed the Continental Divide that day?
10. What did you think of "the Boss," the voice in the darkness that night in Cave Creek, Arizona? Was this all a dream? Did the Boss mirror Least Heat Moon's preoccupation with his own problems?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
From Sally: Dined at Swamp Guinea's Fish Lodge, & dined with the Monks & and am now moving on. I'm a little behind most of you; but will catch up in time.
Sally
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I have Blue Highways Revisited, now, and it's intended as a companion to the original Blue Highways. I think you can get the exact same thing from the link Fry gave here a while back.
But the note from the author of this book is quite interesting. He talks about how the images might not match the seasons in the original because Heat- Moon undertook the trip in 3 months of continuous travel lasting 82 days from the firest day of srping to about the first day of summer.
They broke it up over several years.
Then they say "Heat-Moon has allowed us to photograph pages from his original logbook written on the journey as well as several early manuscript pages, his Olympia typewriter used to write the first several drafts, Ghost Dancing, and more. Discussions with him about these archival images add insight into the travels and the writing of Blue Highways that only the perspective of the author could provide.
Heat-Moon says this about the author: "Ed and I talked often about both my trip and the writing of Blue Highways so that his Revisited contains significant information never before published, details I believe readers today will find pertinent and sometimes amusing. His reportage is accurate and it corrects a few fouled assumptions that heave circulated for some time.
I wonder what the "fouled assumptions" are in the original? I am interested to compare them now.
It's a huge gigantic book and heavy, so the webstite is perfect for reading it also. I like the quotes are accompanied by references to the original text (B.H).
The whole thing is wonderful.
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I see by the heading we're now in 4 but I just read 3, and now am going to look at the photos that seem to pertain.
My first reaction to 3 was that perhaps if he'd stay out of bars and avoid drunks he wouldn't have heard the same things, but then again, I expect somebody could argue with that.
I think he should go back, now that it's 2014, and do it again, maybe avoid bars, talk to a lot of people, and see what he sees now. It's been, what, 36 years? That's not that long a time, I wonder if he'd see anything different. Maybe he should wait till it hits 50 years.
He's in a LOT of bars. At least he is, in 3.
I thought the history of the Chocktaw was interesting. I had never heard that. More injustice. And he's been unjustly treated, by his former wife, and fired at his job, he's ... well, I need to read on and not make assumptions.
I think he's got the accents dead on, however, and dialect is hard to write. When the characters in his book speak in their various dialects, you can almost hear them: he's really got it down. On to 4!!
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Just catching up with the Revisited photos: Father Patrick Duffy has certainly changed, in appearance, it's fascinating. He had a super story about driving a motorcycle into France, and not knowing any French, and so "I was silently praying, 'Help me communicate with the attendant," when I remembered the prayer, 'Hail Mary, full of grace,' and extracted the Latin word 'full,' and pointed to the tank. The attendant immediately understood--my prayer was answered."
Love it.
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JoanK... some days ago when you commented about Least Heat Moon's lack of interest in nature, in the flora and fauna along the route - I almost spoke up - but decided to give you time to notice the birds, the flowers and especially the trees. I'm so glad you did! He does so much more than drive down the road staring at the highway as he moves from town to town, doesn't he? He's only driving 4-5 hours a day - When not on the road he's either strolling the monastery gardens - or hiking along the Natchez Trace - or in the bars and cafes as Sally will testify! :D Lots of fried food in the south, Sally - you'd better be careful - though I've had my share of the catfish!
Callie - I can understand your feelings about the Eastern cities where we all live in such close proximity...but can you understand how we feel when we suddenly find ourselves in such unfamiliar open terrain - and the strange fauna able to exist here. Including snakes where he has stopped for the night? If you are unfamiliar with them, how do you know which are dangerous, which are not?
I'm sensing that Least Heat Moon is lonely as he makes his way west - unable to find the friendly cafes or hotel bars he likes to connect with the natives in the area. We'll have to wait till Dime Box, I think.
Ginny, will count on your Blue Highways Revisited commentary to fill in the gaps...wonderful addition to the discussion!
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Oh, Joan, I certainly do understand why you would feel uncomfortable in such wide open spaces! I don't like driving them by myself!
Most people who aren't familiar with local snakes just assume they're all dangerous!!! However, it's very rare to run into one as he did.
Thank you for telling me how to post an Oklahoma "Blue Road" picture. This one is of the general store in the tiny southern Oklahoma town of Gene Autry - renamed after that western movie star bought a ranch nearby. Three friends and I went in after we had visited the Singing Cowboy museum nearby.
Does anyone know what the "Yard Bird" on the menu is?
Look for the "Smoked Road Kill" ad on the hanging sign. We didn't ask about that one!!!!
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/calliegenreauthrygeneralstoreok.jpg)
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Callie, can you tell us where you live in Oklahoma? In the southeren part near Texas? The photo you posted above is taken in Octavia, Oklahoma. I googled Octavia and see it is located 344 miles from Dime Box.
Here's a link that will show you the distance between Dime Box, Tx (A), where Least Heat Moon visited, and got the best haircut ever - and Octavia, OK where Callie took some of these pictures -
the distance between Dime Box, Tx (A)and Octavia, OK (B) (http://www.distance-cities.com/distance-smithville-ok-to-dime-box-tx) 372.02 miles by car
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Joan, I may have mislabeled the pictures in our correspondence. The other building is in Octavia. I managed to delete my second attempt at posting a picture and have to start over!
I live just north of Oklahoma City. It's 208 miles from here to Octavia and 408.75 miles to Dime Box. However, I-35 South from OKC to Austin is a nightmare to drive because of constant construction and traffic snarls around Dallas and going through Austin.
Will try again.
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This general store is in Octavia (population "Several"). Octavia is in the Ouachita Mountains in far southeastern Oklahoma, which is very much like Heat-Moon's description of Arkansas - except for the mountains. The store closed a few years after we were there. In the newspaper article about the closing, the description of the owner is accurate. Babcock holds court from a chair behind the counter, sometimes propping a foot up on the counter. A beat-up cowboy hat sits atop his head;his wrists are weighted with heavy copper chain bracelets, which he says help his arthritis. "I don't know why you can't just swallow a penny every day and have it do the same thing", he said.. He grew up not too far north of Octavia and built the store himself.
Everything you could imagine was for sale here - and a few things you wouldn't imagine!
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/calliebabcoksoctaviook.jpg)
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One more: This is my friend talking to Rupert Cogburn a few miles south of Octavia. (We immediately thought of the John Wayne character "Rooster Cogburn") We were on our way to the Lodge in Beavers Bend State Park when we saw all the little tin houses with roosters perched on top and stopped to ask about them.
They are fighting roosters! Apparently, in that part of the state, it wasn't illegal to raise fighting roosters but it was - and is - illegal to conduct a fight. A couple of men came to talk to Rupert while we were there - but they didn't tell us what they were discussing. ;) We also met Miss Molly, the hen who gets the roosters in fighting mode.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/callieok.jpg)
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Well, let's try the Kindle again.
When I looked up Fredericksburg I eventually found a pix of the Old Nimitz Hotel. It is now the Museum of the Pacific War. You can still see the ship shape of part of the building. Sorry I can't post the link right now.
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WOW! The site let me post from my Kindle this time.
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Corned beef is simmering, Irish Soda bread is cooling! Smells great - until I start the cabbage. Then the little ones will start to complain!
Callie, love the photos, they give the real feeling for the place. I'd hoped for a minute, until I read that she was your friend, that you had included a photo of :D!
Fry, we'll be along shortly to see your photo of the Nimitz - and talk about its importance. But first -
We'll need to make a stop in Dime Box...it was important to Least Heat Moon - for the simple reason he got to talk to the people! (Though he says he wanted to learn how it got its name - I think his question was just an excuse to chat, don't you?) That seems to be what he lives for - the stories of the lives of the people he's meeting. The cafes and diners are prime spots - like Ovcarik's Cafe in Dime Box - turned out to be a four calendar cafe! I've heard the ham and beans are to die for - with hot peppers! Don't miss it, even though a bit off the beaten path! LHM is looking for answers - though sometimes not sure if he's getting them. What did he learn from Claud Tyler in Dime Box - a town with only two streets where he watched a sycamore grow, for example? Do you think he stops in the small towns like this because there are few people - and they won't be too busy to talk to him? I'm noticing that there is a Czech population here - Did you find this at all surprising?
(http://myfilthyminddotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/007-main-street-dime-box.jpg?w=600&h=378)
Why did Least Heat Moon pull off the route to Dime Box, Texas - a small town with only two streets?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXNNs2MWfP0CMzUhBkVusKwkH5Ahaq0vOT6vRsI8I6T7ulHHVY)
Claud Tyler's barber shop
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Callie's photo of the Babcock place in Octavia, OK sounds a lot like the Otto Kolmeter hardware store LHM described in Fredericksburg. I'd love to go there one day - Did Babcock's carry graniteware, Callie? I love that stuff! Kolmeter's was said to have been erected by German settlers there - as soon as the Comanches left. So there's a Czech and German population down there too!
Fry, we'll be along shortly to see your photo of the Nimitz Hotel in Fredericksburg - and talk about its importance.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend, everyone! We're expecting snow tonight - through the night and into tomorrow. Grandkids are ecstatic. I suppose the tulips, daffodils...and Cherry Blossoms can withstand one more storm! :D
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O.K., Joan - how's this? :)
I think WHM is intrigued by unusual town names and does realize that people in the small diners, etc. will have both time and inclination to visit.
Generally speaking, people in this part of the country are more open to conversation and interested in how/why someone from another area happens to be in their vicinity.
He will be covering a lot more territory in the next several states because he will be able to drive faster and farther between stops.
Edit: just now saw your additional post, Joan. I don't remember specifically what Babcock's carried. As I recall, there were no "sections" as such; everything was piled on counters, shelves, etc. There may have been a system - but it wasn't obvious.
I was looking for homemade sorghum molasses (which I found) and didn't browse through the entire store.
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Look...this used to be Otto Kolmeter's hardware store...isn't it cute? In the photo the White elephant Tavern - but the last time we looked - a German import boutique...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/242_E_Main_Fredricksburg.JPG/450px-242_E_Main_Fredricksburg.JPG)
Next time you're in Fredericksburg, check it out for us, Callie? Hardware store, tavern or import boutique~ Look for the carved elephant above the door...
So your answer - both the unusual names attract him - and the fact that they are small towns with unhurried people. I guess the unusual names provide easy conversation topics...
Love the photo - do people tell you you look like your friend?
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I doubt I'll ever get to Fredricksburg or The Hill Country again. Sadly, I'm no longer able to do "walking around" type of travel.
My friend and I have a few similarities but no one has ever said we look alike.
The terrain begins to change between Fredericksburg and Fort Stockton. There are fewer trees and the driving distances are longer
On the "blue road", he didn't go through any towns in the approximately 142 miles between El Dorado and Fort Stockton.
If you drove 142 miles in any direction from your town, how many towns would you go through and how much traffic would there be?
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Here we go, the Nimitz Hotel. Use the Panaramio feature; it's easier than scrolling down the page.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Fredericksburg+TX+Nimitz+Hotel&client=firefox-a&hs=NKg&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=JywmU6LgOcSd0gHZs4CIAQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1190&bih=676&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XErVUWyMIxDHhM%253A%3BdRu_OW-GXfr5XM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.panoramio.com%252Fphotos%252Flarge%252F42265588.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.panoramio.com%252Fphoto%252F42265588%3B1024%3B768
Good heavens, what a huge site link address!
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What a neat web site, Frybabe. Thank you for sharing it.
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I am in Louisiana now. I am finding it interesting as we lived in Baton Rouge for 9 years. When we first moved there, we went to a crawfish festival in Breaux Bridge & it almost ruined eating crawfish for me. There was a lot of drinking, dancing on the tops of cars, loud Cajun music and people sucking yellow goo looking stuff out of the heads of crawfish! This was in 1975. Fortunately, I got over my aversion to crawfish & really learned to appreciate the folks in Louisiana. Lots of good memories of those years! I can't wait to get to the next leg of my trip as I live just 39 miles from Fredericksburg & will be familiar with the territory he is travelling.
Sally
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Sally, I'm so glad to see someone else from this part of the country! Looking forward to your comments as he travels to/through/past your area.
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I agree, Callie - we are so fortunate to have someone from the Fredericksburg area in our convoy through Texas! Were you aware before we started out that Least Heat Moon had stopped in Fredericksburg, Sally?
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A crawfIsh question for you- did you ever learn what that yellow goo might be? I'm not sure I'd have eaten them without knowing. I remember a crayfish paella in Spain not so long ago. They were so dry and crunchy, I wasn't sure | was supposed to be eating them or brushing them to the side of my bowl- which I finally did. But the yellow goo you and LHM mentioned?
As you leave Louisiana and head into what LHM considers the emptiness, the loneliness of Texas, do you sense he was depressed, or low, rather than content with the welcome solitude? Remember he stayed with his cousin in Shreveport right before he left Louisiana for Texas - and commented that there was no letter from his wife. Does this sound as if he had expected or hoped to hear from her?
Especially when he crossed the Pesos River on Highway 29 and found nothingness - no towns, no plants, he wrote, "Men go into deserts to lose themselves." Is this why Least Heat Moon chose this route? Solitude? Who thinks he sounds depressed?
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I think he's sounded depressed ever since he left Missouri!
I wonder if he had previously traveled to/through any of the areas along his route for this trip. Did he plan his route because he knew what kind of country he would be travelling through?
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Yes, JoanP, he indicates that he is lonely in the wide open spaces of Texas.
Fredricksburg is very popular now and is supported by all the tourists that come to see what's for sale in the many shops plus eat in a good restaurant, of which, I understand, there are quite a few. My friend who lived there in the '80's said their trip to the town started out with enjoying the Bluebell fields along the way. Very beautiful and impressive.
When we lived in Austin, in the '50's, no one spoke of Fredricksburg as the place to visit! But we had retired neighbors who had farmed in the area. Raised their kids out there also. They said the area was mostly owned by German farmers. Grew up in homes where German was their main language. My grandfather made friends with Granpa Nauert,(our neighbor) and when they got together, they found that their German languages were slightly different. My grandfather spoke "high" German which was different from Granpa Nauert's German. But close enough for them to compare the pronunciation of same words. My grandfather had learned his German when he was in the seminary in St Louis. I still own his German class book.
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Callie, I think the trip was at least partially planned. Some of the places he visited, though, I believe he saw the names on the map and wanted to see what was there. I guess the names seemed unusual or strange to him. It reminds me of the old song, The Bear Went Over the Mountain (to see what he could see).
I thought he seemed of two minds at during the trip. On the one hand, he seemed depressed or lonesome. On the other, he seemed to invite the solitude. Standing out in the middle of the wide open at night must put a different perspective on things. I've seen pictures of the night sky and the crags below it from that area. It looks like you could almost reach up and touch the Milky Way. Spectacular. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQg5J1sCdPI
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I thought he wanted the solitude and the time for introspection. He has some major changes in his life to contemplate.
I had to finish the book last night - could not renew it - I've enjoyed the whole trip, although I admit some of the introspection didn't hold my interest.
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I've also finished the book and will have to check it in by the end of the week.
The hard-cover was published in 1983. I have the paperback edition, published in 1999. In it, WLHM added an Afterword, dated May, 1999. His comments there give more detail about how and why he chose his route - but also somewhat shaded my opinion and attitude toward his mind-set along the way.
Joan, do you prefer those of us who have the 1999 edition wait to make comments on the Afterword?
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In an aside I love the wide open spaces, just love them. That drive from San Antonio to New Mexico blew my mind. No phone transmission, just the wide open sky.
I loved Illinois, those beautiful farms. What a magnificent country this is, so different.
Right now our trees are in full bloom of spring, everything is white (the Bradford pears). I don't care what anybody says about a Bradford pear and yes they stink but they are absolutely gorgeous, broken in two or not. The forsythia and quince are blooming here, I wouldn't live anywhere else but when I go out to the mid west or the west, I just LOVE the wide open spaces and start dreaming of 1000 acre farms hahahaa.
I'm kind of like the old cowboy song: Don't Fence Me in.
Loved the Gene Autry store and the general store, we have several like that here, fascinating.
Gene Autry certainly did well for himself, didn't he?
Loving the book: he's definitely taken the road less traveled, hasn't he?
Robert Frost: (this is what I think every time I open the book):
1. The Road Not Taken
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
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"It looks like you could almost reach up and touch the Milky Way. Spectacular."
Just finished a fascinating book "the End of Night" about how our use of electric lights is making the night sky invisible in more and more places. It claims 80 percent of the people born now will never see the Milky Way. How long has it been since you have seen the Milky Way at night. For me, not since I lived in the Israeli desert in the 1960s. Here in the LA area, I'm lucky if I can see three stars on a clear night. As a child, even living in a big city, I could see hundreds.
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I take it back -- the sky over Israel was a Southern (below the equator) sky, and I don't remember if the Milky Way was visable. I just remember I'd never seen so many stars looking so close in my life.
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We had friends from England visiting us and we took them out to our ranch (about 12 miles from our house). My husband cooked steaks out on the grill, put potatoes in the coals and grilled onions & garlic. They brought wine & a bouquet of wildflowers that she had picked along the road. It was a beautiful clear night & you could see every star in the sky. We sang "Deep in the Heart of Texas" and other campfire songs. This couple have travelled all over the world & have stayed in first class accommodation & eaten at 5 star restaurants and yet they still talk about their trip to Texas & our ranch outing as one of the main highlights of their many travels. We have always thought our part of Texas is beautiful; but seeing it from their eyes put a whole new prospective on it.
Sally
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Oh Sally...that sounds wonderful- magical! I don't remember Least Heat Moon sharing such a time with anyone as he made his way across Texas, do you? Maybe because he's traveling alone, doesn't have friends here, like you!
He did have some moments alone under the stars...
JoanK - when we visit my husband's brother in Apple Valley, the high desert of CA, we
do see the stars that you and Sally are talking about. You 're so right about the electricity from so many towns and cities in close proximity, obliterating the stars.
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Callie, nlholme, I hope, we all hope, that because you've had to return your library books, you will continue to join us on the road! You add so much! We would be lost without you! You must be enjoying meeting other readers like Sally as we cross borders to different regions... Please don't go. It would be different if you both hadn't read the book.
Callie, I 've been thinking about your question regarding Least Heat Moon 's 1999 Afterword in which he explains why he took this particular route. I checked my paperback copyrighted 1982 - it 's not there. I've been enjoying trying to figure that out from what he's written in BH. It's one thing to learn from Blue Highways Revisited what has become of people we've already met...but we're only half way through with Least Heat Moon. I think I'd like to put off your kind offer until we've come to the end of the journey - to see how close we come to figuring him out. Another reason to ask you to stay on the road with us!
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reason he chose this route came from Frost, Ginny - I sense, as others here have expressed,a he needs solitude, but needs to get a different perspective from talking to people...hard to do in big cities.
"...took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Lucky you - Spring! We had 8 inches of snow last night. Schools closed yet again. Federal Gov. too... This is ridiculous!
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Callie, you asked an interesting question -
I wonder if he had previously traveled to/through any of the areas along his route for this trip. Did he plan his route because he knew what kind of country he would be travelling through?
What do you think? I was surprised at the visit to his cousin in Louisiana. Had he visited her before?
Frybabe thinks he partially planned the trip - and then deviated a bit for some interesting side trips...but he stuck to the circular route as planned?
And Fry and Annie sense his depression, which is perhaps relieved when he is alone. But there is still the loneliness and the need to talk to people.
Annie- so interesting about the German farmers in Texas. I wonder when they first arrived here.
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A question to sleep on- do you think this man is getting anything from this trip so far, any new perspective after listening to Claud Tyler, that barber in Dime Box...or Virginia Breen, the remote saloon filling statïon owner on Highway 81 in New Mexico...Or how about the guy in the Stetson at Cave Creek, Arizona, who seemed to appear out of nowhere?
Is Least Heat Moon learning anything from these conversations that might make a difference in his life when he gets back to Missouri? Or is it too early to say?
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Oh, Joan, I don't intend to leave the discussion at all at all <she said in her best Irish brogue/Oklahoma drawl>. I've taken notes on some things along the rest of his trip - just may not be able to remember details.
I agree that comments on the Afterword in the 1999 edition should wait.
Apparently, the driving distance between Kansas City, MO (where he grew up) and Shreveport is about 9 hours. If his cousins' are originally from the Kansas City area, he may have seen them through the years,
Before I return the book, I want to see if he makes any comments that indicate he's gaining insight from the conversations along the way. Somehow, I feel he isn't trying to learn anything - just observing and writing about lifestyles that are probably quite different from those of his readers - and, maybe, his own as a youngster.
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Has anyone gotten to the Chicuahua Mountains yet?
The episode at Cave Creek struck me. I went through a similar thing after I moved back here, leaving George in Allentown. I too was depressed by the events in my life at that point. When I got back here I tried reconnecting with two friends who also got divorced within a few years of me. I was in the process of learning to live on my own (which I had never down before) and move on from past events. It turns out, that my two friends hadn't. They were both still caught up in the venomous attitudes and accusations from actions years ago. One had caught her husband cheating on her and the other was being abused. The first was living with her former in-laws; she was enduring constant criticism of how she was raising their grandchildren and said the in-laws were reading her mail. I wondered why she when to live wondered why she was living with them in the first place rather than staying put or moving back to her hometown. The second, even though she had remarried, seemed to still worry over her ex and make excuses for his behavior. The most I remember her saying about her new husband was that I would like him because he liked to read. Here I was trying to pull myself up; here they were dragging me back down.
Okay, that was a bit long winded but you can see the similarities between them and the fellow LM met at Cave Creek. Cave Creek has an interesting history. I was a bit disappointed that LM did not mention the are is very big on birding. http://www.birdandhike.com/Bird/Favorite/Az/Portal/_Portal.htm I saw some great bird photos on other sites, but this one give an overview of various areas and some nice general pix.
Map: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=200170088072207293959.0004a6765ac967c64920f&msa=0&dg=feature
Now I have to go recheck to see if he says which hair raising Forest Road he took to get across the mountains.
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"Before I return the book, I want to see if he makes any comments that indicate he's gaining insight from the conversations along the way. Somehow, I feel he isn't trying to learn anything." Callie
Maybe it's just me, Callie. Maybe you're right - he set out trying to escape the mess in Missouri, not trying to learn anything. But as he listens to each of these folks living lives very different from his own, I can't think he's not making connections to his own life. Some of his observations were quite subtle.
The contrast between the inane, empty (disappointing) conversation on killing cats over in Ovcarik's cafe, where it appeared nothing was happening worth talking about in Dime Box - and then hearing Claud Tyler's memories of Dime Box...LHM sensed that CHANGE was happening here - though a slow process...like watching a Sycamore tree grow out front. Change is possible, it just takes time.
Very subtle. Maybe too subtle. Maybe it will become important as he moves on. Maybe not. :D
I hope everyone gets to the Chicuahua Mountains soon. I think the meeting with "The Boss," was a huge eye-opener for LHM! Nothing subtle about the impact this guy in the big Stetson hat had on him. Thanks for sharing your story, Fry. I think Least Heat Moon had similar feelings as you did as he listened to the man's unending complaints and regrets. Don't you think he learned something from this, something that would affect his own life?
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Fry - Thanks for the bird watching site - In it, I spotted this map - and see Portal. LHM wrote that he saw a small wooden sign that said "Portal" and "Paradise." He was surprised...he'd never heard of the Chicuahuas...so it's likely he's never heard of Portal and the bird reservation before either. He wrote that "Portal consisted of a few rock buildings - and not a human in sight."
(http://www.birdandhike.com/Bird/Favorite/Az/Portal/maps/Chiri_Mts_Area_Map.jpg)
I see this nice cafe there too - maybe it's not that old, but it looks it, doesn't it?(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jDSW3fG4_Ng/Sb8vbV0Mn_I/AAAAAAAA-UM/_U6wiZ0bsNs/s400/DSC_0061.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1300509714853)
On the same map, you can see the Onion Saddle Road too...another harrowing time - "LHM described this road as a single rutted lane...no place to turn around as he went higher...higher." After he got back down - he got on the Interstate, e took it to Phoenix...seems to have been in a hurry to leave Cave Creek behind!
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I just traveled the scary road with no signs or indicators of where he was. Wow!
Frybabe, thanks for the links to the Chiricahuas. My goodness, I was so surprised that the area around Portal has visitors from around the world. And the number of different species of birds that they come to see is unbelievable. One can have a guide there for leading you to the best places for birding. I wonder where the closest airport is? :D :D And could we rent a car to get to Portal and the Chiricahuas? The Portal Peak Lodge suggests that you make reservations early as they fill up fast during the spring when birders come in. The PPLodge is described as "A Gemstone Set in a Treasure". There's also Myrtle Kraft Cottages where the views from the private cottage porches is breathtaking!
So, here's a link to Myrtle Kraft Library and its history. From reading it, I think she was a teacher in the school? http://www.portalrodeo.com/myrtle-kraft-library.html (http://www.portalrodeo.com/myrtle-kraft-library.html)
While I was searching for Myrtle, I found a retirement center in San Simon, AZ named Myrtle Kraft Cottage.
I think LHM is getting some good and some useless stories. Especially the guy in the ten-gallon hat. I found LHM's reaction to him as interesting. His recording the man's speech and then replaying it. Finding the man to be so self centered that he wasn't learning anything while coming to Portal Peak Canyon on a regular basis. Just watching the stars would be a life changing moment. And he didn't notice them! He often carried his bag of troubles up to the peak but never left them there.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25(West by Northwest) ~ Oregon
Part V West by Southwest
1. Least Half Moon pulled into Heber at sunset, hoping for an old hotel with bar - people with good stories. Only motels in Heber - "no focus for the eye and soul where townspeople and tourists meet." How important is such a focus for you when you travel - a mix of tourists and townspeople?
2. Interstate 44, used to be Rt. 66. Have you ever been near Holbrook. Arizona on Rt. 66, or to the Navaho reservation, which covers most of the northeastern corner of Arizona? Did US government really believe all that land was worthless? Is it?
3. Did Least Have Moon find any conversation with the Hopi elders, whose territory is located in the center of the Navajo lands there? He's encouraged when he hears all the children in the Hopi Cultural Center speaking English....
4. Into Utah - "Roads might be impassable during winter months." It was May! Did you ever find detours or road closing when in high mountains? Back down to Cedar City, he met a Hopi Indian student at breakfast in Southern Utah State- Kendrick Fritz. Did you wonder what prompted him to ask this student about prejudice against Indians here. Do you remember his reply?
5. "A true journey, no matter how long the journey takes, has no end." Can you explain what he meant by this? Maybe he means the road just keeps changing, without ending?
6..Remember Laurie Chealander in the cafe-bar-filling station in Frenchman, Nevada, population 4? The place is located on a fault line, at the edge of a navy. bombing test site, miles from the nearest source of supplies. Do you understand how she finds a home here, why she wants to stay?
"No gas within 80 miles." Sees no one. Millions of stars. Finally some dying mining towns - Did you find them all depressing? - Ely, Austin? LHM says he liked Austin. Do you remember why?
7. Dismal weather on State 70 over Sierrra Nevadas to CA, with "a vague sense of moving away from some things and towards others." What do you think he meant by this?
8. After a harrowing night in the mountains, and then after his meeting at a deserted campsite with Bill Watkins and his wife, ole what's-her-face, he writes, he writes "the journey would change." What do you think he meant by this?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) |
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Joan, I have never been good at analyzing the "meaning behind the words" in books. That's why I like these discussions with those who are more aware of them. When someone calls something to my attention, I often reread and have an "Aha" moment.
Other than a memory of hearing coyotes at night while visiting an aunt in Tucson when I was 5 - and having driven between Tucson and Phoenix on I-10 several years ago , I'm not familiar with this particular area. However, I have traveled a lot through other parts of TX, CO, NM and AZ that are similar as to space and distance between towns.
We often drove from our home in the CO mountains to visit family in Amarillo - usually leaving after school,. We wound our way down to I-25, then to Raton, NM and east to Dalhart TX across an "empty" area of ranches and ancient volcanoes. By this time, it was dark and going through this area was like being under a black kettle with millions of little twinkling lights above us and from horizon to horizon. (of course, my husband would never stop and let me star-gaze - and I didn't get to visit a volcano site until I went to CO with my son/grandchildren!!)
From Dalhart, we always took a "blue road" shortcut into Amarillo. Just past the tiny town of Channing, we topped a certain rise and suddenly saw lights stretching from Borger - Amarillo - Vega in a semi-circle around the edge of the horizon. We were at least 30 - 40 miles from all of these towns.
Oh, and it was an 8-9 hour trip!
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Callie, the thing about trying to interpret what the author is thinking or the meaning behind a thing is that I (we?) often get it wrong. It is like looking at a painting or listening to music. I imagine (especially music) what it represents and when I read the what the artist actually had in mind - well, there is often a big difference.
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I'm jealous of the birding site. I bet LHM didn't know about it (I didn't either). I like to think of him as new to this, struggling, as we all did, to figure out what he's seeing. The books are arranged by biological classification, so you have to know what bird it is in order to look up what bird it is. We all went through that frustration.
Later, you learn family resemblances, and eventually know the birds you haven't seen by heart. (Then you get old and start to forget!)
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I'm behind, as usual. Hope to reach the mountains today.
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"The thing about trying to interpret what the author is thinking or the meaning behind a thing is that I (we?) often get it wrong. Frybabe
OK, I'll agree with you, Fry. There are different ways to interpret what an author has written - and sometimes we get it wrong. The exchange with the guy in the ten gallon hat is a good example - as Annie wrote-
" LHM is getting some good and some useless stories. Especially the guy in the ten-gallon hat. Finding the man to be so self centered that he wasn't learning anything while coming to Portal Peak Canyon on a regular basis."
Personally, I felt "The Boss," (the guy in the hat) provided LHM with some very useful insights into himself - These are his own words, NOT my own interpretation. I hope you'll let me know if you disagree that this was a meaningful, a useful conversation - not for the Boss, who was "wallowing in crises," but for Least Heat Moon.
After hearing an account of LHM's journey,
The Boss: "Your little spree sounds nice until you go back."
LHM: "Don't have to go back who I was."
The Boss: "Can you get out of it?"
LHM: "I'll find out. Maybe experience is like a globe - you can't go the wrong way if you travel far enough...a little spree can give people a chance to accept changes in a man."
Heavens, I'm copying more than I intended...and still not sure I'm convincing you that these conversations along the road seem to have a common theme - "CHANGE" I think the possibility of change is slipping into Least Heat Moon's subconsciousness. But you're thinking that's just my interpretation...and I guess you're right! :D
One last quote from the very last chapter of Part Four before we move on to Tucson and the way to California... Least Heat Moon tells us he's been thinking of The Boss and Cave Creek - and then - ""By last light, I came into the city named after the bird forever reborn from the ashes of what it had been."
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Before we move on to Part V - a this message is for you, Callie - I though it was interesting to read that you have spent time on Interstate 10. Just got finished looking at the Rand McNally with my husband - in an effort to answer that question # 9 you puzzled over earlier -
Do you understand what Least Heat Moon meant when he said it was the 4th time he crossed the Continental Divide that day?
The Continental Divide is a really curvy line in New Mexico - curving around what, I don't know - the Hachitas, maybe? On the New Mexico page in the Atlas, down in the southwestern corner, between J-1 and J-2, Bruce ran his finger on I-10 or the old Highway 70 along the Continental Divide between Deming and Lordburg.... Wouldn't want to be traveling those curves in an Econoline van! Don't know if that helps explain how LHM crossed it four times...husband counted out loud each time he would have crossed ... ;)
JoanK , don't get lost in the mountains - above all, don't take any roads with warnings about the roads in winter. Even if we're nearing April. You'll see what happened to Least Heat Moon! We'll be looking for you in our rear view mirror.
ps Keep an eye out for that elusive enigma bird!
Onward!
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Joan, The New Mexico map in my atlas shows the continental divide in New Mexico. What he calls "blue road 9 in the Hatchet Mountains" crosses the continental divide several times between Hachita and Animas. From Wikipedia:
"State Road 9 (NM 9) is a 109.154-mile (175.666 km) long state road in the U.S. state of New Mexico. The highway spans Hidalgo, Grant, and Luna counties from NM 80 to CR A003 at the Doña Ana county line. (this describes the opposite direction from LHM's route).
...A few miles east of Animas, the road again climbs and crosses the Continental Divide the first of three times. … Continuing east, the road crosses the Continental Divide twice in less than 2 miles (3 km), then descends to the Hachita Valley. (to) the small village of Hachita,"
This is where he saw the sidewinder in the sand. Maybe he went across the divide while he was walking in the scrub.
Those of you who participated on the old Senior Net site may remember the Bashes that were held in various parts of the country. The I-10 drive was to a Bash in Tucson. The OKC friend who also went wanted to visit her granddaughter in Phoenix so we flew into there and drove to Tucson. The group went to Sabino Canyon, the DeGrazia art gallery, Mission San Xavier del Bac - and to Nogales, Old Mexico. Lots of fun!
On another visit to Phoenix, my friends took me to Tortilla Flat, which is in the Superstition Mountains. We had lunch in the saloon, where the wallpaper is real dollar bills and the bar stools are saddles.
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Just stopping in to say that I will be gone for 2 or 3 days as the doctor puts in a pacemaker plus do an AV ablation. My A-fib is getting out of control causing my heart to beat too slow. This procedure can be a big help for that problem. I am picturing the best results.
JoanP, I did have second thoughts about LHM and his friend in the "tall hat". The more I thought about the whole incident, I began to see that by cogitating on what "tall hat" had to say, LHM does see where he doesn't want to go on his journey . Doesn't want to be bogged down by the past. So, he learned a lesson there.
I have really been taken in by the sights and silence of the desert. He does such wonderful things with words about the mountains, snakes, cacti and the Indians. And fires, smoke and clouds. What a history lesson he gives us about the Hopi and the Navaho tribes and their differences in their beliefs. I will be rereading this whole section tomorrow while I am awaiting my releasee from the hospital.
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Thinking good thoughts for you tomorrow, adoannie.
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Adding my good thoughts for you, adoannie. My son had an ablation 25 years ago for Wolffe-Parikinson-White syndrome.
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{{{HUGS}}}, Ann, I hope you'll be climbing mountains this weekend. :)
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My best wishes, Annie, for a successful procedure. (I don't know what an AV ablation is).
I'd like to move on from "the Boss" but one more thing occurred to me. He and LHM are going through stages of grief (you don't have to lose someone through death to go through this process). Here is a brief summary of the stages(some lists only have five stages, this one has seven): http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html Some people get stuck in one or another longer than others. I think you can see where LHM is and where "the Boss" is. It appears that "the Boss" is stuck in Anger. It looks like LHM is transitioning between #4 and #5.
I stopped at Phoenix for a day or two, but have just left on the jog north and east.
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Good points, Frybabe - and ones I hadn't thought of. I'll go back and reread to pick up the clues.
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Just coming into Phoenix. I did get stuck in the mountains with LHM. Interesting that of all the things to be scared of, he was scared of bears! We all have our own brave and fearful spots, don't we?
Boss Hat was a real lesson, wasn't he? We all know people like him -- stuck and resentful of something or someone in the past, often decades past! Some even look for things to resent, and hoard them, like treasures. But I think LHM learned more from him than anyone.
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Yay! I'm able to keep the library book for two more weeks. So I won't have to guess what is being referred to along the rest of the way.
We'll have to read fast to get back to Columbia, MO by the end of the month!!!!
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Spent the morning going through annual medical tests...everyone searching for something wrong... Now the wait!
Annie, girl, you sound as if you'll be back with us soon, heart ticking at the proper number of beats, good as new, ready to get back on the road in another day or two. Tell you what we can do. Let's cut the engines - give Ghost Dancing a break - and extend our tour of the blue highways a bit longer to give Annie (and the Lollygaggers) a chance to catch up. :D Plenty to see right here in Arizona!
Frybabe - good catch! Both Least Heat Moon and Boss are grieving - one has just lost his job, his wife - the other feels stuck with his. I remember the first time I read of their meeting. It was as if the Boss stepped from a dream, the way he appeared from nowhere, without a sound. Didn't Heat Moon hear him when he drove up? I didn't understand that. Then, as the Boss continued to whine and complain about his luck, his life, I thought surely it was a dream - that Half Moon had fallen asleep - and that in his dream, the whiner, the complainer was a reflection of himself. (Weren't these two the same age- about 40?) And he wasn't happy with the guy in the mirror!
So, you see them at different stages of grieving...maybe by the end of his journey Heat Moon will have moved along to recovery. We've all concluded he's depressed, but as he comes through deserts and mountains, perhaps he will find the inner strength needed to pull himself out of it.
Callie, glad you've got your book for a while longer! How did you manage that? I do remember those SeniorNet bashes out west. So you were there - in Phoenix and Tucson! Least Heat Moon didn't stay in Phoenix long, just long enough for gas...too crowded?
Do you have a Rand McNally handy? I've been enjoying tracing his route today out of Phoenix, JoanK. Are you coming? I see Tortilla Flat, Callie, but didn't stop. What did you find there?
North on 87 to Payson, stopping at an old log hotel there, saw a map where someone had marked an old Hopi reservation and decided on the spot to check it out. Takes 260 to get there, stops at Heber, hoping for an old hotel, with a small bar..people - good stories!
How long has it been since he's had good conversation?
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A slowdown would help me--every time I think I'm almost caught up, we move on, and the things I think of to say come too late.
I've just started the first 3-week renewal, and I get another one.
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I'm on my last renewal.
LHM sure likes to stop at bars, and he often had a six-pack with him. I hope he didn't end up with a drinking problem. Bars and diners/local cafes are probably the consistantly best places to find people to talk to who have interesting life stories to tell.
I've gotten to the Navajo and Hopi Reservations and will stop there to check out the land, buildings and culture. One of my former co-workers is part Navajo. She's been out several times to visit. She has relatives in the area.
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I thought I had renewed as many times as possible - but, apparently, I had one more available...for two weeks.
Tortilla Flat was "touristy" and nothing at all like the John Steinbeck novel or the movie based on the novel. From the web site:
Tortilla Flat is an authentic remnant of an old west town, nestled in the midst of the Tonto National Forest, in the Superstition Mountain Range. Tortilla Flat started out as a stagecoach stop in 1904 and neither fire nor flood has been able to take away this historic stop along the Historic Apache Trail.
The book/movie:
Above the town of Monterey on the California coast lies the shabby district of Tortilla Flat, inhabited by a loose gang of jobless locals of Mexican-Indian-Spanish-Caucasian descent (who typically claim pure Spanish blood).
The central character Danny inherits two houses from his grandfather where he and his friends go to live. Danny's house, and Danny's friends, Steinbeck compares to the Round Table, and the Knights of the Round Table. Most of the action is set in the time of Steinbeck's own late teenage and young adult years, shortly after World War I.
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Erata: I take it back, my former co-worker is partly Peublo Indian, not Navajo. Sometimes the memory sucks.
Anyhow, I hit the jackpot with maps and such for the Navajo/Hope Reservation:
https://www.google.com/search?q=navajo+reservation&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1190&bih=676&tbm=isch&imgil=OqZSsDb5euQlCM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRecWTs8bSCcRNzc3MIbvcoeMjOI3t4SxKpM4mKV4TKO84SyEzcyg%253B1900%253B1563%253B9rCZl2qkV0BTwM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ihs.gov%25252Fnavajo%25252F&source=iu&usg=__flSVEx_QDTI84JZx6FBkRFLSkCQ%3D&sa=X&ei=lusqU5_1K8KKqgH494C4DQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=5-IfXchO5CjV2M%253A%3BkXPn5iba_X-sMM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nhmu.utah.edu%252Fsites%252Fdefault%252Ffiles%252Fattachments%252FNavajo%252520Reservation%252520Map.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nhmu.utah.edu%252Fboneuponnativevoices%3B1300%3B800
Holey Moley, another huge link name.
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Okay PatH - for you and others who are still in the desert dust, we have decided to extend our time with Blue Highways until April 12 - and then start the April Book Club Online in mid April! Please, please don't hesitate to make observations from the rear of our convoy. We are hoping for that!
In the meantime, the rest of us can find much to do in Arizona - though sadly, Least Heat Moon is not finding opportunities for conversation. If he is depressed and lonely, he certainly needs company. Even if he wasn't depressed, he must have been lonely - all those empty roads, alone.
He chose the route though - he must have chosen it for a reason. Lonely empty stretches - the solitude. I still think he should have brought a dog with him, at least!
"Bars and diners/local cafes are probably the consistantly best places to find people to talk to who have interesting life stories to tell."
Frybabe. I'll bet that's what LHM was counting on - but isn't finding. I hope he isn't more depressed than ever, before the trip is over. For some reason I believe something will lift his spirits to change his outlook...but not until he sinks even lower.
It sounds as if he'd have been disappointed in Tortilla Flat, Callie - and Payson - and then Heber, where he was looking for people...a mix of travelers and locals. Heck, he'd have settled for locals...but can't find them anywhere!
Did LHM make a stop in Holbrook? I remember he mentioned it, but not if he stopped. I know he stopped in Tuba on the Hopi Reservation...
Thanks for the jackpot link to the Navajo reservation, Frybabe. Let's talk about how the Navajo came by all this land.
Have you ever visited this part of the country? The closest we ever got was Holbrook, the Painted Desert, when traveling Rts. 66 two different times. I got all excited when I saw his route shared Rte. 66 in these parts. I have a few photos...will co get them to share with you.
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10 miles from Holbrook and our night in those tepees, we stopped at this trading post - quite touristy...I bought little granddaugher a pair of Indian mocassins.
(http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-arizona/JackRabbitTradingPost-400.jpg)
Jack Rabbit Trading Post
Two years later, on a return trip, we stopped again at the Jack Rabbit - can you believe I brought back the mocassins which had been too small for Lindsay after the first trip. They let me trade them in for this silver, turquoise, coral necklace, made by the Navajos. I have it on right now. They told me it was to bring harmony.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/navajo%20necklace.jpg)
Navajo necklace
The tepees - made from cement, I think, a typical Rt.66 tourist attraction. Like staying in a tomb. Pitch dark, the only window had a big air conditioner unit mounted in the space - no other people in the "park" - and the manager told us he wouldn't be there at night - if we wanted coffee in the morning, the Safeway down the road opened at 7 am! It was fun, in an odd way. I wouldn't have done it alone! :D The cars you see parked beside each unit were classic 50's cars - adding to the illusion of a ghost town...
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/Holbrookteepees_001.jpg)
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We've traveled in the Four Corners states many times, and love the area. The teepees are really funny - definitely not from the southwest Indians. Those are the plains Indians. As a way to learn a lot about the country and the Navajo and Hopi peoples, read Tony Hillerman's mysteries. He's a great storyteller, and the country is always a primary character in his stories. The Navajo always considered him a great friend because he was so honest and truthful in his story telling. And his geography (roads, towns, etc.) is always spot on.
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Hmmm, when I enlarged the sign in the bottom picture, I see they called them "wigwams"... Now you've got me wondering if my precious Navajo necklace is genuine Navajo, Maryz! :D
What is the difference between a tepee and a wigwam. I thought the tepee was for travel...these look like my idea of a tepee!
Apparently LHM didn't think much of Holbrook either...copied this out of the Interactive map link in the heading-
"Holbrook used to be a tough town where boys from the Hash Knife cattle outfit cut loose. Now, astride I-44 (once route 66), Holbrook was a tourist stop for women with Instamatics and men with metal detectors; no longer was the big business cattle, but rather rocks and gems."
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"Holbrook used to be a tough town where boys from the Hash Knife cattle outfit cut loose. Now, astride I-44 (once route 66), Holbrook was a tourist stop for women with Instamatics and men with metal detectors; no longer was the big business cattle, but rather rocks and gems."
Back to the real world as opposed to more "romantic notions" in his mind?
I'm not too surprised that he didn't find anyone willing to engage in conversation on the Reservation. I doubt there are very many "outsiders" traveling the route he took
His description of the Hopi doesn't sound like people who would be willing to "open up" to strangers.
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We drove route 66 in 1957 on our way to spend a summer in New Mexico.
I'm either behind or ahead. read last night to the middle of Nevada. Where am I supposed to be?
I love Tony Hillerman's mysteries about two Navaho policemen! And MaryZ has it right: "the country is always a primary character in his stories." If you want the feel of that country, there's no better way.
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Old Route 66 goes through the town where I live.
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I, also, am in the middle of Nevada. I had to stop & get out my travel journals and relive our trips to the Grand Canyon, 4 corners area, Holbrook, Winslow, Painted Desert, Petrified Forest, Sedona, parts of old rte 66, Monument Valley, etc. My late husband loved to travel west & reading these journals; I travelled with him again. Half the fun of travelling with him was our journey along the way! Oh, how I miss him!
Sally
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Sally, the missing doesn't ever stop, does it.
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{{{Sally}}}...I was looking through scrapbooks at photos of our trips west on Rt. 66 - and thinking that someday, I'd be sharing those memories - with myself. Life is bittersweet, isn't it? We were fortunate for the travel...and the memories.
Callie - Elk City? Clinton? Oklahoma City?
Joank- you're right where you're supposed to be if it we had stayed on schedule. We've slowed for a few days, waiting for the others to catch us. Nevada is a little too far ahead at this point. You skipped Utah and also the student Least Heat Moon questioned about whether he has experienced prejudice - against Indians! I thought that was interesting following the cool treatment Heat Moon had received on the Hopi reservation in Arizona...were they ignoring Heat Moon because he was not one of them? Was it a language barrier? Their children were all speaking English...
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Joan, Oklahoma City, Edmond (right through downtown).
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I didn't skip the interview with the Hopi, but wanted to quote from it and didn't have my book. A very spiritual and thoughtful man, especially given how young he was.
Here is a quote (not from the Hopi). John le Carre "Nothing ever bridged the gulf betwwen the man who went and the man who stayed behind." Le Carre is talking about death, but do you think LHM is talking about something else?
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And you were there in 2004, Callie? We could have met - had lunch at the County Line Barbeque place - over on N.63rd? Or do you recommend something cosier? Bruce remembers the beef brisket. I don't remember what I ate. Do remember the moving memorial and the oil rigs on the lawn of the capitol.
A quick stop in Utah - and THEN on to Nevada.
Though the scenery was beautiful in both places, I don't have fond memories of Utah - or Nevada? Perhaps it was because there weren't likable people in either place - and because Least Heat Moon wasn't finding satisfactory conversation. He's lonely, and that snow/ice n Utah almost did him in. It was May, wasn't it? He almost froze to death in his sleeping bag, unable to turn his van back down the mountain.
JoanK - I don't remember much of that conversation with young Kendrick Fritz - except that he was a Hopi Indian. Was it because of this that Least Heat Moon asked him if whites were prejudiced against Indians? I thought it a strange question to ask an Indian boy - and don't remember his answer. Does anyone? I just remember that the Hopis on the reservation wouldn't talk to LHM.
Do you think Least Heat Moon looks like a white man - or like an Osage Indian? I've seen photos somewhere, will try to find it now. Here's one of many of the white haired LHM in his 70's. No younger photos yet -
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/295204_373212856042991_1731139524_n.jpg)...(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpb7lgWXJY5IYsT5EPPlm1KzAgRrfRLT9ngt3xVVe8GTZtxaiP)
Here's another - young Bill Trogdon photos - difficult to find:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRfiUgGXeCLp6ZM-Y75zbqaOB7hlrcSirIwjYH-4cJ0Tz_Vzur)
ps JoanK - I just now see your addition to your post - the quote from John LeCarre - "Nothing ever bridged the gulf betwwen the man who went and the man who stayed behind." Does he mean the man who went is forever changed, the gulf is so wide?
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Joan, oh, my, yes, I was here in 2004; I've been here since 1977!!!! And I don't live all that far from where County Line BBQ was on 63rd. Sadly, it closed and is now an Italian restaurant. Did you go to the National Museum of Western Heritage "next door"?
It wasn't in the mountains, but in March of 1972 ( before CBs, cell phones and GPS systems), family and I (plus our Filipino exchange student) were stranded for almost 18 hours by a huge snowbank on a "blue highway" between Trinidad CO and Springfield CO. We and some other cars were trying to take an alternate route to Amarillo because Raton Pass was closed by the snow.
The experience sounds like a dime-store novel but all made it safely. It was the one experience of his year with us that our exchange student never talked about!!
We were a minority on our street in Leadville. I "walked the walk" with my dear, sweet Hispanic neighbor the day she discovered she was the "token Spanish-surnamed" member of a school committee and was not expected to contribute anything useful. When I asked if she had experienced other indications of prejudice, she said, "Individually - but not in general."
When I was in high school (in the Choctaw Nation/Oklahoma), some sisters moved to town from a northern state. Once, when we were downtown, they asked me to show them an Indian. I had a hard time finding anyone who looked "Indian" enough to convince them. Mixed-bloods don't always fit the expectation.
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Callie-who knows, we might have been sitting at adjacent tables! I think we missed that museum - guess we should have, huh? Every place we visit, we find more reasons for returning!
Good to hear you survived you night in the snow bank...with your whole family +
Exchange student? Which would be worse- marooned in a car full of kids...or alone, no one in the world knowing where you are?
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I thought this was interesting -found it while looking to see if young
Kendrick Fritz was able to achieve his goal of becoming a doctor-
"In Blue Highways, when LHM stops in Cedar City he gets some breakfast at the campus of Southern Utah State College. While eating, he strikes up In Blue Highways, when LHM stops in Cedar City he gets some breakfast at the campus of Southern Utah State College. While eating, he strikes up a conversation with a Hopi man named Kendrick Fritz who is studying medicine and who wants eventually to go back to the Hopi homeland to help his people.In an interview with Artful Dodge, LHM says that there were three interviews that were most important to him. One was at the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Georgia with Brother Patrick. We have already been there on our literary journey. One is with a person we have yet to meet. His interview with Kendrick Fritz was another of the three interviews that he felt most important. I think that it was because the whole idea of how journeys fit into our lives came into focus for him.
Source:
http://littourati.squarespace.com/main_page/tag/kendrick-f conversation with a Hopi man named Kendrick Fritz who is studying medicine and who wants eventually to go back to the Hopi homeland to help his people.In an interview with Artful Dodge, LHM says that there were three interviews that were most important to him. One was at the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Georgia with Brother Patrick. We have already been there on our literary journey. One is with a person we have yet to meet. His interview with Kendrick Fritz was another of the three interviews that he felt most important. I think that it was because the whole idea of how journeys fit into our lives came into focus for him."
Source:
http://littourati.squarespace.com/main_page/tag/kendrick-fritz
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Scroll down to Kendrick Fritz's name in the article to see what he has been doing.
http://www.navajohopiobserver.com/print.asp?ArticleID=11431&SectionID=74&SubSectionID=102
IHS is Indian Health Service which is part of the US Government.
http://www.ihs.gov/
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Frybabe, thank you for the link to Kendrick Fritz. He's doing well.
Interesting to see the Clan identity after each person's name.
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:'(Yes, thank you, Fry - it is a relief to hear Kendrick Fritz has had a meaningful and satisfying career - and using it to help his people too!
I don't know about you, but I'm finding the drive through Nevada quite depressing. Maybe it's because of the remote route he has chosen, through the dying mining towns. The people all seem resigned to living here as they do. Is this a good thing?
Do any of you have ties to the place, the Nevadans? Would appreciate hearing from anyone who can eradicate the impressions LHM's account of life in Nevada has left on me?
Maybe we should talk about the "lovely" couple he met in the deserted campground before we go - Bill Watkin's, his wife, whose name escapes me - (was it even mentioned?) What do you think Least Heat Moon took from Bill's resignation to his situation? I found it depressing, but maybe there's something to be said for his method of coping.
Let's plan on crossing the border to Oregon tomorrow, hoping everyone has had the chance to experience Nevada as we have! ;)
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest) ~ Oregon
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-29 (North by Northwest) ~ Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Michigan
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 23-26 Part VI West by Northwest - California, Oregon
1. Into Oregon on US 97 at Tule Lake, on to Fort Klamath, attracted to the glow of neon to a promising wooden café.
"His type makes me nervous." What do you think the woman with the matching mopeds mean by this? How did Least Heat Moon react to this?
2. Crater Lake - "the only famous tourist attraction in Oregon." At noon, "a sea change "
How did reading Black Elk's The Sacred Pipe affect Least Heat Moon? Was it racial memory that urged him to drive 7000 miles of blue highways?
3. Does the banana slug seem to fit right in to the "blue funk" he's in? Why those calls to the Cherokee?
4. US 101 Depoe Bay - would you have choose the no-name beanery, over the Happy Harpooner? What is bottomfish? How did the local fisherman feel about overfishing here and the resulting changes?
5. Up the coast - Fort Clatsop, four volcanos, Mt. Hood...Aren't these still tourist attractions too? ("Native Oregonians could only agree which mountain was Mt. Hood.")
6. Portland, Louie's Oyster Bar ~ Communal tables, though not many customers wanted community with strangers? What did he hear from students to lighten his mood? Anything?
7. Liberty Bond, Oregon, a town that no longer exists. Why does it rate a place on his map of memorable places?
8. What was the impact of Least Heat Moon's conversation with the hang glider in Klickitat, Oregon, who describes how good it feels up there to be totally alone?
9. "To seek the high road, a man looks not deeper within - he reaches farther out." Is this how Heat Moon is going to overcome his loneliness and depression?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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A note to those bringing up the rear - We REALLY do want to hear from YOU - your impressions of what you are seeing or thinking as you take your time on the route! Also, pay attention to those signs that read "Next gas 80 miles." --- Fill up - even those signs can be misleading...
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I think people who live in remote areas like the ones in Nevada he writes about can become "resigned to their fate" because they lack opportunities to interact with others as we who live in populated areas do. Many may not be able to afford the time or expense to travel to the nearest town very often - so they only go when absolutely necessary, never casually for entertainment or social purposes.
A woman who made the Oklahoma Land Run in 1889 with her husband and homesteaded on the prairie not far from here wrote to her aunt in Missouri:
"The nearest post office is 16 miles from here and that is Oklahoma City. Ed has gone to the city today for mail but I don’t expect he will get back tonight and I will have to stay by myself.
I am lonesome, awful lonesome. No church or any place to go and no one to come here. I tell you girls, if you want to know how you feel when you are lonesome, you must move away from your friends to a new country and be by yourself nearly all day. It seems to me sometimes as if there were no one in the whole world that cared anything for me and I just couldn’t stand it any longer.”
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We watched "Nebraska" last night and it covered a family living in a small town, Hawthorne,MT, and the main characters stop to visit with his family, who are so resigned, I thought of the book and WLH describing Nevada. If you have NetFlix, its probably available there. Thought provoking movie.
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I'm spending a little time in Nevada. After Ely, LHM stops at Austin, a town he likes.
http://www.austinnevada.com/
Click on the video. I enlarged it by double clicking on it so I could see it better. Very nice presentation of Austin's history, events and scenery.
Now I am in Frenchman, near where the first underground atomic bomb test took place. What interesting stories the locals had to tell. LHM talked to the last owner of the place. The Chealanders deeded the property to the US Navy in 1985. The buildings were demolished in 1987. http://www.onlinenevada.org/articles/frenchmans-station-aka-bermond
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Frybabe, that's a wonderful video and I can see why LHM liked Austin.
(They must not have casinos and "cat houses" like some of the other remote towns do. ;)
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Welcome back, Annie so happy to learn how well the procedure went! W missed you!
Will definitely sign up for Nebraska.
Callie...heart wrenching story. That homesteader's lonely existence in the remote area broke my heart.
Frybabe, I'm glad you bring up the Chealanders. I'd been wondering about how (and it why) they hung on in Frenchman...with their three little daughters. Surely those girls when grown, will not want to stay on here!
Now we know they didn't, that the whole family left...don't you wonder where they went?
I found this in searching...but there is still a missing piece to the puzzle. -
"When I compare our trip with Heat-Moon’s about thirty years prior, the two most significant changes were in Frenchman, Nevada, and the route through West Virginia. When Heat-Moon stopped in Frenchman, the settlement consisted of a cafe-bar-motel-gas station-home with a population of four: Laurie Chealander and her husband, Chris; their two-year-old daughter, Callie; and Chris’ mother, Margaret. It was located on a remote section of US 50 and sat adjacent to a US Navy bombing range. In September 2007, as I followed Heat-Moon’s route in western Nevada, I found where Frenchman, Nevada, had once been. There were no buildings – only a few pipes rising from the ground. Examining the Frenchman photograph in Blue Highways confirmed I had found the right spot – a large gravel parking area, the shape of the distant mountains, the angle of US 50, and the “No-Trespassing-US-Navy-bombing-range” sign on the fence bordering the south side of the gravel lot. The pieces of the puzzle fit. But I was unable to locate any members of the Chealander family. Fallon and Reno directory assistance produced several leads, but none of them led me to the Chealanders. While I was eating lunch at the Frenchman site and pondering how to track down the Chealanders, two Navy fighters began to drop practice bombs just a mile or so away. In 1978, Heat-Moon was told about a plane that dropped a bomb on Highway 50 the year before, “and nearly killed some clown in a car.” The dummy bomb “just bounced up on the pavement and rolled dead.” I saw the reality of that bar story graphically reinforced. The Chealanders used to sell hats and T-shirts with the engraving, “I got bombed at Frenchman.” I had just joined the club. The US Navy removed the buildings after it purchased the property in 1986. I would finally track down Laurie Chealander in 2009. It was worth the effort. She had a wonderful story to tell since Heat-Moon’s visit in 1978." By the author of Blue Highways Revisited Edgar I Ailor III.
"I would finally track down Laurie Chealander in 2009." . Can you find her?
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So LHM liked Austin, the "Town That Died Laughing." Why? Because they believed the town was going to come back. Optimism!
Thanks for the link, Fry - Austin didn't turn into a ghost town as so many of these towns did. It has an historical designation. I read the population in 2010 was 192 - wonder how many of them are young people.
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More on Laurie Chealander and those three daughters..in Reno!
" Fallon and Reno directory assistance produced several leads, but none of them got me to the Chealanders. Internet searches provided eight possible addresses but no current phone number. I wrote a letter and explained I was mailing the same letter to all eight addresses. About a week later Laurie called me and I would fly to Reno to interview Laurie and meet her three daughters and one grandson." Edgar I Aillor III
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I am in Oregon. I've stopped for a while, while I look up my travel Journals and read up on our trip to Oregon & California. We travelled some of the same spots the author is talking about.
Sally
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Oh, I have some catching up to do. I am still in California.
Another Frenchman/Laurie article: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19861030&id=hSwrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HnIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1422,7145280
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Thanks, Fry! I can't seem to get enough of the Chealanders. They represent the dying towns we've seen as we travelled the blue roads through Nevada. I like the fact that they aren't still out there in Frenchman - that there is life after living in a ghost town. (Does anyone know why Least Heat Moon named his van, Ghost Dancing? Apropo, don't you think?...He seems to be living in a lonely little moveable ghost down, population of 1.)
Two more photos - you get an idea of how and where the Chealanders were living - in Frenchman. The photographer, Ed Ailor, drove the family back for photographs years later - of course the cafe/filling station were gone by then when he took the bottom photo - but this was the spot where it used to be.
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/Chelanders1978Frenchman.jpg)
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/chealandersphoto.jpg)
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WE do need to get moving...but I must add a memory of beautiful Lake Tahoe in Nevada...can't forget that!
Love hearing where everyone is today - Salan, stopped in Oregon looking at travel journals in California and Oregon. Fry, am looking forward to hearing what you see today in California. When I took my notes over Part VI, I seem to have skipped California completely. I plan to reread the CA route - can't imagine why I skipped the whole state!
Later!
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I thought he had surprisingly little to say about the Mt. Lassen scenery. Travelliing along the routes he took, I was unable to find several of the places he mentioned (not that I looked hard), but I did see Hat Creek and surrounds. What a delight to discover the Hat Creek Radio Observatory. It speaks to my early interest in Radio Astronomy. I had never heard of it before. While LHM talked about the birds and the lower section, I took myself off to the observatory. http://www.sri.com/research-development/specialized-facilities/hat-creek-radio-observatory
I moved on to Oregon and the banana slug this morning. I can almost feel him cringing through his mixed thoughts and remembrances, bringing back his depression for a while and an unsuccessful call to "the Cherokee".
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Has anyone got to State Route 14 in Washington yet?
Among other interesting sites, he mentions Beacon Rock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beacon_rock.jpg and Mt. Adams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mt_Adams.jpg He seems to be enjoying his drive on SR14, following some of the Lewis and Clark Expedition's trail.
LHM is about to head for Liberty Bond, another town on the map whose name intrigues him.
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Just pulling into Oregon, Fry - Breathtaking mountains, aren't they? I thought it was funny to read that even the locals weren't sure which was which...except everyone knew Mt. Hood.
Least Heat Moon, seems happy enough after his icy plunge into Hat Creek, CA...though his mood began to change after meeting Bill Watkins, wife and dog, didn't it?
He became angry when there was nothing open in Manton where he hoped to get some directions after a road closure...and when he reached Viola, not a gas station or cafe to be found. Why were they even on a map, he asked?
Hungry, he's ready for Oregon....CA 299. (He writes he's been here 15 years ago - did you see that?)
So, angry and hungry, he arrives in Fort Klamath. A neon sign, looks promising. No calendars, though.
"His type makes me nervous." What do you think that woman with the matching mopeds means by this? How did Least Heat Moon react to her comment?
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Aaak--we're on Oregon already. I'd better catch up, because I've actually been to some of the Oregon spots.
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Another non sequitur from me, but this is a philosophical book, isn't it? Or is it?
At any rate, I can't find this quote on the internet (which is nothing new for me) and had not heard it (but I don't read a lot of LeCarre) : "Nothing ever bridged the gulf between the man who went and the man who stayed behind."
But I wonder how, in what context, it was first used? Do you remember which book it was, Joan K? It certainly could apply to many things, including this book's quest. And death, as Joan K says.
The first thing I thought upon seeing it was WWII, considering the age of LeCarre, the: "What did you do in the War, Daddy?" This was a big theme of WWII, between those who "went," and those who did not.
Looking harder at the quote you can ascribe all sorts of meanings to it. I am intrigued by it.
Thank you for bringing it here, Joan K.
Super discussion.
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Where is JoanK? - last we saw her she was in Phoenix, I think. Where are you, Ginny? Pat, we need you!
I've an appointment, but am leaving this just for you, Fry. Last we heard, LHM still has yet to find the Banana slug, hiding somewhere in the back of his van...
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM2mSwHVve-syg1JKBO7Zr8dMq_2P3hV51BmhOCb6c9XzHQ9Dugg)
Banana slug in a rush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im2p165N5uQ) Click this link if you want to wach a slug move!
Does the banana slug seem to fit right in to the "blue funk" he's in? Why those calls to the Cherokee? Did his loneliness get the better of him? He tried five times to call her - and when he did...? This is the first time he's mentioned trying to contact her... though I remember his disappointment that there wasn't a letter from her at his cousin's in Shreveport, LA.
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"...this is a philosophical book, isn't it? Or is it?"
An interesting question, Ginny! I think so, but some people read it as a travel journal, reliving pleasant memories. As I move around the web, I see so many people making plans to follow Least Heat Moon's route - just to see what he saw. They aren't motivated by the issues that caused the author to want to get out of town, leaving all his disappointments behind. They are just interested in the travel experience, seeing new sights. I like hearing from people who live in or have visited the areas the author visits.
Depending on where you are in the book, you can't miss his moods, his changing mindset as he experiences loneliness, solitude, or as he converses with people who are living their lives in remote places, no matter how difficult. Least Heat Moon's is experiencing a philosophical journey.
"Nothing ever bridged the gulf between the man who went and the man who stayed behind."John Le Carre
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This is from his novel, The Looking Glass War. I can't say I've read it, so don't know the context there - Least Heat Moon sees names of places on his Oregon map - Lookingglass and Riddle... He asked "What need for a man to make a trip to Lookingglass, Oregon, when he'd been seeing his own image across the length of the country? My skewed vision was that of a man looking at himself by looking at what he looks at. "
So, what are YOU looking at now? Are you in Nevada? Oregon? Or?
Are you surprised that he even drives to Portland? I thought he was avoiding cities. Have you ever been?
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On the very first page of Chapter 1, he writes "...A man who couldn't make things go right could at least go. He could quit trying to get out of the way of life. Chuck routine. Live the real jeopardy of circumstance. It was a question of dignity."
Right after the unsuccessful call to The Cherokee from Corvallis OR, he writes, "I began fighting the fear that I was about to lose heart utterly and head back. Oh god, I could feel it coming. The old Navajos, praying for renewal of mental strength, chant "In the ways of the past may I walk." - but my chant went the other way."
After going half-way through his "circle" around the country, here he is - wishing he could go back to the way things used to be.
I know several people who have had major life changes not of their choosing - and simply cannot (or will not) emotionally let go and get on with a different way of life.
I've wondered if LHM is this way and has been seeking out people who mirror this feeling - while rejecting those who remind him of "the way it used to be". Have also wondered if he found something lacking in the people who had chosen to move to remote areas.
Re: going through Portland: He went to Ft. Clatsop at the mouth of the Columbia River. It appears he wanted to follow the river and, according to my atlas map the best way to do that was to follow State Highway 30 through Portland and then cross to Vancouver W.A.
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Excellent points, Callie...and you've explained what brings LHM to Portland. Besides looking for oysters now that he's here. :D Louie's Oyster Bar. He writes that though there were communal tables, not many wanted to speak to strangers.
And the conversation with the grabby teenagers didn't lift his spirits either. "Goodbye Portland!"
He can't return - retrace his route, go back to things the way they used to be. He's come too far, been through too much. This wasn't the first time he thought of forgetting the whole thing...remember when he came so close to taking the turn for home in the very beginning of the trip? Do you remember where he was then? I thought it was on one of those rainy days during the first week on the road.
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What keeps him going when he is losing heart? He writes of undergoing a "sea change" - and then he writes that he has started reading Black Elk's " the Sacred Pipe," in which he writes of the blue road route and the man who lives for himself, and not his people!
I 'll bet this was on his mind when he listened to those teens in Louie's, for whom "anything less than more than enough, is not enough."
I've lost the source of this...will hunt it up, because I think it clarifies what's happening with Least Heat Moon. He 'll go on, blue as he is right now-
"The reader can see in the early part of Blue Highways, Walt Whitman predominates where there’s some bitterness and certainly a great sense of loss in the narrator. But as the book goes on, and the narrator moves more into a re-emergence, a reawakening of his red background, Black Elk becomes the predominant outside spokesman. … in his Sacred Pipe, Black Elk speaks of the blue roads of a person’s life. The blue roads are those roads that are destructive to human understanding and human cooperation. They are roads that are largely travelled by people preoccupied with themselves."
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I've decided, through reading the passages in the book, that I am not real fond of Walt Whitman.
I guess you could say that choosing the title BLUE Highways was appropriate in more than one way.
Meeting up with the hang gliders and the cute chick was interesting. LHM was a bit forward with the girl; she didn't much care for it.
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I'm in Oregon and have actually driven through Oregon to almost all the places that he mentions. We drove up the coast of Oregon twice, once with my children, I've been to Portland three times, (my one continuing memory of Portland is the overpasses, after driving thru such pristine country up the coast, and then inland never expecting them: they terrified me. To this day all I remember was a city of over and underpasses, everybody driving too fast).
Oregon seems wildly beautiful and very strange. It's quite like going into another time, (I kept reciting "this is the forest primeval," drove the kids nuts, when you go up the coast road, is it #1? All the way to Seattle? I've come by train, that great train from Chicago to Seattle, around the Columbia River into Washington State, it seemed to go on forever.
I never will forget the seals (I assume they were seals), and the surfers along the coast and the strange rock formations.
There's a wonderful restaurant hanging out over the Oregon Coast where we used to like to stop, it's breathtaking scenery (I think it's some kind of motel, doesn't look like much) and they had finger bowls and sherbet to cleanse the palate between courses, the kids were mesmerized.
Interesting about Fort Stevens, the last place in the US fired on by a foreign power.
Good heavens, what a statement: in his Sacred Pipe, Black Elk speaks of the blue roads of a person’s life. The blue roads are those roads that are destructive to human understanding and human cooperation. They are roads that are largely travelled by people preoccupied with themselves."
I am not sure what kind of human understanding and cooperation you get on an interstate?
That seems different, more negative, from:
The Lakota concept that HM wrote about, " The good red road," as opposed to the "blue road," the path of one "who lives for himself rather than for his people."
The Revisited says "This is the key idea in Blue Highways and the original significance of that title, a description that has now entered the American lexicon as a term for 'back roads.'"
So here is the burden, I didn't know existed and which I don't feel, personally, of living for your "people," which apparently is expected?
So symbolically he's taking the more negative self centered road, paradoxically trying to find himself by taking what the people he meets say as...omens? Meaningful?
Looking for signs on his pilgrimage?
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Ginny, I think you're right about his taking the negative self-centered road and, frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of his self-pity!
How marvelous to have driven up the coast in Oregon. I have always wanted to drive..go by car ;)...along the Pacific coastal highway. The one chance I had was interrupted by 9/11 - which happened as we were sitting on the concourse ready to fly out of OKC to join a group in California. Obviously, we didn't - and I've never had another chance.
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Getting dizzy trying to follow Ghost Dancing after he left Portland. Did he ever go further north to Fort Clatsop, to Astoria? I remember they were mentioned, but don't remember a visit...Fond memories both, but will try to stick to LHM's blue route.
I know what you're saying about getting tired of LHM's complaints of loneliness, Callie
Fry says it all..."the title Blue Highways, appropriate in more ways than one."
Black Elk is teaching something else...counseling against such self-preoccupation. Do you see any signs that he is taking Black Elk's teaching to heart?
Do you see him making such a change on this pilgrimage, Ginny?
"I am not sure what kind of human understanding and cooperation you get on an interstate? "
I agree, this will have to occur from what he learns Off the Interstate...
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LHM seems to be at a real low point here in Oregon, or at least I hope it's a low point.
Yes, the Oregon coast is beautiful. I've been to all the places he mentions too. There are lots of seals, and my daughter, SIL, and I once saw a harbor seal giving birth. It was very quick--all over in a minute or so, and there was this cute little baby seal.
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Fry brings up the hang glider...Alba Barthol, from Klickitat, who tells Least Heat Moon, how good it feels to be totally alone up there. Alone and FREE!
Do you think this will have any effect on LHM's loneliness, Pat? I'm hoping his outlook will improve after Oregon. It's time! No more calls to the Cherokee!
Lucky you...to be watching that particular mama seal at just the right moment!
Let's tack another day on this section as it just may be a turning point!
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Do you think this will have any effect on LHM's loneliness, Pat?
Nothing seems to make him feel better for long. He'll have a moment of insight or see the poetry in something, then next paragraph he's back in his depressed fog.
Incidentally, the highway he didn't take, on the Oregon side, that goes past all the wonderful waterfalls in the Columbia River Gorge, and that he looked across at on the level of The Dalles, remarking it had covered the Oregon Trail, is now US 84, not 80N. It turns southeast, and hits 80 at Salt Lake City. I wonder when the number was changed, and why they bothered.
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Well, I'm hoping the cumulative result of these encounters along the way, will result in lasting change by the end of his travels.
Wait a minute...I just remembered something he wrote in a previous section. maybe it's important enough to collect in the list of his memorable quotes...
"A true journey, no longer how long the travel takes, has no end."
Does this help? "I-80N was generally built along the corridor of U.S. Route 30 and U.S. Route 30S, which themselves largely followed the Oregon Trail; the U.S. Route 30S designation was decommissioned in the 1970s after the freeway replacement was mostly complete. The highway was signed with the I-84 designation in 1980, when a 1977 change in guidelines took effect that discouraged highway numbers with directional suffixes."
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Well, when I noticed on my map that LHM was in Truckee and looked at the photos that are in my BH Revisited, I remembered that I had been to the Truckee for lunch back in the '90's with my DH and also went up to see the Donner memorials and then a pleasant drive around Lake Tahoe to our hotel which was on the water's edge. We were at a business meeting but were able to meet with my cousins who have a cottage on the lake. Beautiful country. And then when LHM crossed over into California, he was really seeing the gorgeous side of the U.S.
How interesting, Frybabe, that you were interested in radio telescopes. Have you see the site up in northeast WV? Green Bank, WV? We took a brief tour of the grounds. Its been there for quite a long time.
A link for you, Frybabe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radio_Astronomy_Observatory
I am reading "Revisited" plus reading LMH's story of the road. I am up in Oregon, just over the line and driving out to where we started our trip up that most luscious road US 101. I have been up from the bottom to the top of Oregon along that highway. Its where Ralph and I spent two nights in that
the Books B&B, we visited the Laughing Frog shop in a tiny town that my cousin from Corvalis told us not to miss. We stayed in a hotel/B&B on Cannon Beach(pictured in Revisited). I might have some pictures(about 300) of Oregon. I gave Pedl'n directions to a wonderful old hotel with dining room over looking the Columbia River, not too far from Multnoma Falls.
I don't find LHM depressing but mildly disappointed that he hasn't found anyone as interesting as the Chealanders. It was fun to read about Frenchman and the bar, grocery, filling station and restaurant.
In this book are the picture that LHM took and one taken in 2007 taken by author of BH Revisited.
I will be back tomorrow.
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My husband & I (along with my sil & bil) flew into Salem, OR, rented a car & drove to the Colombia River Gorge & then up to Astoria, ORE, and down the coast to San Francisco. We were on the road for 2 weeks and really saw some breathtaking scenery as well as sea lions, & a pod of whales! It was truly a memorable trip & I would love to do it again.
I am now ready to enter North by northwest. Where is everyone else???
Sally
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Me too, Sally. I took two days off before traveling on.
I finally looked up The Dalles, which I took to be the designatior for an entire area. It is, in fact, a city on the Columbia River. http://www.historicthedalles.org/
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Thanks for the link to the Dalles, Fry! I clicked HISTORY in that link -
"It also served as the end of the overland Oregon Trail beginning in 1843. Lewis & Clark camped at The Dalles twice, in 1805 and 1806. The site of the city was a major trade center for Native Americans for at least 10,000 years." They didn't let go of that land easily.
You and Sally are right - we are about to move on to North by Northwest. Tacked another day on to the schedule to give others a chance to catch up.
Since you are ready to go, why not get a start - take notes and we'll catch up with you tomorrow. Wait for us in Browning, Mont, okay? The old SeniorNet had ties with the reservation there, does anyone remember that? Least Heat Moon seems to have done lot of research on the area when he got home. While interesting, and important, I find myself eager to move through it sometimes. Do you feel that way too? I'm afraid to miss something that I'm not skipping, maybe scanning is a better word for it...
Part 7 covers a lot of territory - So does US2! LHM write, "People who equate travel with getting miles behind them love US2."
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest) ~ Oregon
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-29 (North by Northwest) ~ Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan |
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Annie - funny to see that you are following the blue route with the photos in BHRevisited. Why? Because the last we heard before your recent hospital procedure, you were looking for a used copy. Seriously considered sending you a copy...thinking you'd enjoy it while recovering. BUT you were back the next day...ready to roll, with Blue Highways Revisited in hand! The thought was there! You just move too fast!
If you scroll back through the posts, you'll see those same photos of the Chealanders when they went back to Frenchman years later...Had their picture taken where their " town" used to be. Nothing there! That's why I was surprised to look at recent RM Road Atlas and saw Frenchman still on the map! I guess that's because the Navy still has a base there? But there is no town as you'd think from looking at the Atlas.
I think he's finding conversation in Oregon...just doesn't like what he's hearing. Wait till you catch up with the hang glider.
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I think I've already been there, JoanP, but I've slept since then so will have to look it up again in "Revisited". :D :D
In using my Atlas, I found so many towns that he mentions. But, up to Oregon, where so many of us have been. Like Ft Clapsop, Astoria, the Columbia River, the Coast Guard Museum in Astoria plus we went out to see where the Columbia meets the Pacific. Wild site. It almost impossible to get the boats in and out and thru that pass. Scary! MDH took a picture of the public outhouse, out there, when I was using it. Funny funny! ;D ;D Never pass a facility where one can get more comfortable on a trip! :D :D
Am now going to look up the Dalles. We went up to Mt Hood and took a long drive up the south side of the Columbia. That's where we stopped at that old hotel that I directed Pedl'n to. Stupendous scenery. Watched the Kite Riders on the Columbia.
I have the library copy of BHRevisited. Its a HB and so is my copy of BH.
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(http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/mounthood/001.JPG)
Bruce and I in the snow on Mount Hood - Behind the Timberline Lodge. It was July! 1999
So when we read of cold and wind on the northern route, believe it! I've lost track of the month LHM is in now. I know he likes to dive into mountain lakes to bathe...if you started across the northern route, he is coming down with a cold and a fever. Does anyone keep track of the time of year is?
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(http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/4_bhr_p9_8_1x5--_Blue_Highways_mapIMG_3241_copy_2.jpg)
Funny about Liberty Bond, isn't it? It is one of the few places he includes on his map...and there's nothing there!
Interesting that he included his meeting with the pretty lady on horseback. I guess he writes about her to emphasize how lonely he is.
"The loneliness of the long distance traveler."
Annie - are you counting the number of times you see the word, "lonely" in the Oregon chapters?
The hang glider guy has a different perspective..."how good it feels to be totally alone up there where everything depends on yourself."
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There's a difference between lonely and alone. I read this book before, back when first published, and now. I got the alone part, and I could see at times he was a little lonely, but to me it was not so desolate.
Now we're getting into the part of the country I am more familiar with.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
|
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest) ~ Oregon
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-31(North by Northwest) ~ Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota,
Wisconsin, Michigan
Part EIGHT ~ April 1-2-3 (North by Northeast) ~ New York, Vermont, New Hampshire
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
March 27-29 Part VII North by North by Northwest ~ Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan
1. Conversation was more difficult in these Northern states. Most in the North were "polite, but reserved." In your experience, is this true? Least Heat Moon expresses concern that he's not learning where lives cross. Is this then, the purpose of his trip?
2. Do you think Fred Tomlins' philosophy of SIMPLICITY, his clarity of purpose, will resonate with Least Heat Moon? He knew this fighter pilot before, right? What do you know of the Snake River?
3. "I don't have your belief, your purpose," LHM tells, Arthur O. Bakke, the hitchhiker he picked up in Potlatch, Idaho. What impression did this care-free missionary make on you? On LHM?
4. What do you know of the Blackfeet in Browning, Montana? Do you sense Least Heat Moon is putting the blame for the chronic alcoholism resulting in all those steel crosses along the highway on the Blackfeet reservation, on any one group?
5. After Cutbank, (coldest place in the US) and Shelby, on desolate US2, Least Heat Moon is sick for first time on the trip; then in Backoo, North Dakota, in a town closed for Saturday, experiences his first car problems. He's in a bad way. What does he think of North Dakotans now?
6. Wisconsin Highway 35 - ticks, mosquitos..."Purpose of my trip was to be inconvenienced so I might see what would come from dislocation and disruption. Answer: severe irritability."
7. Didn't he learn something on hearing about the runaway teenager's father in Wisconsin?
What did he learn from Karl's story on the ferry into Elberta, Michigan - hanging 10" under the freight trains, thinking he was going to die?
8 "Who's the creep in my room? Tonto?" Does this mean that Least Heat Moon has the appearance of an Indian?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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"There's a difference between lonely and alone...I could see at times he was a little lonely, but to me it was not so desolate." nlhome
An excellent point. The difference between loneliness and alone. The hang glider sees "alone" as something good - even glorious - "as if everything depends on yourself." "Alone and FREE - "
Heat Moon writes that he is experiences "loneliness again"...says only the journey keeps him going, that "he was seeing into the past."
Do you get the feeling that he needs the freedom of the hang glider to leave the past behind - if he is ever to leave unhappiness and loneliness behind?
"To seek the high concord, a man looks not deeper within, he reaches farther out" - When he reaches this conclusion, I feel he is starting to get it.
Let's see if he can do this in the Northern part of the country.
Were you as surprised as I was that this section, North by Northeast - covers SO MUCH TERRITORY? Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Michigan. How much opportunity will he have to strike up conversations with the people he refers to as "polite, but reserved."
So happy you are familiar with these parts, nlhome - and look forward to your comments!
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For those bringing up the rear, we'd love to hear any observations you have noted along the way...Shall we have a contest? Who is the farthest behind on the road? :D
For those ready to roll - Idaho!
- Fred Tomlins' place in Moscow Idaho. Wonder where Least Heat Moon had met Fred, the pilot...who likes to fly over the Snake River. A quiz show question - who was the famous person to cross over the Snake...on foot?
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Well I have attempted to read along but this has been a month filled with all kind of demands - from health to family, friends and two very challenging sellers or rather I should say they are in reaction to very challenging problems with the property they want to sell.
Interesting, the first two weeks of reading was like old home week for me - I lived in Lexington Kentucky for 12 years. During those years I was very active as a trainer for the Girl Scouts and so it was usual to travel deep into those mountains as well as west towards Louisville. Wakefield had just opened up part of the the old Science Hill Inn in Shelbyville while the two sisters were still very much at home often coming out on the lawn to chat. Had not dipped down too much into Tennessee but the conversations he had on his way to Nameless were the sounds and attitudes familiar to me - We left the area for Texas in 1966 where as, he was taking is Blue Highway trip in the early 70s so there was still much the same as in my memory bank
Then my daughter lives in western North Carolina for the past dozen years or so, and a few times I would take a slow trip up to Oxford Miss and across coming east towards Hendersonville by way of Nantahala forest, through Franklin where since those trips Steph has her summer home. Then my sister lives on the Outer Banks in Corolla, which is a few miles north of Kitty Hawk and both further north than Roanoke - Then of course coming home from my daughter's through Montgomery south to Mobile and across to Houston I made my pilgrimage to St. Martinville where the tree and statue for Evangeline is 'the feature' along with the church that is in the Longfellow story. The drive south from I10 which he probably took 95 since I10 was not yet built, you finally get there over very bumpy almost unpaved roads.
Then Dime Box is on the way to Bryan, College Station where my youngest lived for 9 years - mostly Czech country with some Bohemian who all still converse among themselves in their historical language - and of course many a trip over the Fredricksburg where with all the tourist trade that has taken over, stopping at the bakery early in the morning you will hear folks still conversing in German. Back in the 70s the classes in the elementary school was all in German.
Had my share of trips to El Paso when my youngest lived there for 3 years - for me the trip over stopping always at Fort Stockton for a coffee break is one of the most dramatic and glorious landscapes I have ever seen. Then from El Paso onward into New Mexico up 25 to Albuquerque and many points in between, north to Santa Fe and on to Taos and west to El Prado where my eldest son lived, several of the reservations have a sorta town center but you often see children being left in the fields over night while the parents go into a nearby town for a dancing and yes, too much to drink - We took many a trip into eastern New Mexico often coming in at Hobbs or Clovis or Dimmit on up to I40 - Been to Carlsbad as well as most of the eastern part of New Mexico along the north into Arizona, for the Painted Desert and the Grand Canyon, loved Williams, west of Flagstaff and, of all the reservations the Hopi is one of my favorites.
Then he finally drives through a part of the country I have not seen till he gets to Oregon where again, my youngest son lived for 3 years and I would visit 4 times a year so that we visited and hiked Mt. Hood and spent time on the beaches near Seaside - earlier when my children were younger and still in school I was a national trainer for thel Girl Scouts and with another trainer from Idaho we spent a month and a half in Canada having a couple of days in Seattle then were driven north, we took a huge ferry to Victoria where we spent a day at a wonderful museum filled with native Indian artifact, then driven north to Nanaimo where we over-nighted then across to Vancouver. Later during our stay we were driven into the Northern Rockies for a couple of days.
All that bit where he drives across the northern Rockies and the Northern Plains I have not visited so that will be new for me until we get to Detroit than I am back into Northern Ohio and on into New York and it looks like the Mohawk Valley which I am remembering from my childhood - my father always wanted to hike the Mohawk trail - something about a book he read when he was a kid in the hospital after falling off a roof and breaking a leg - but he never did achieve that dream however, we drove across touching on the 1000 lake area.
Interesting how we all conserve our dollars on a road trip and unless it was a Sunday drive and even then we most often brought our own picnic. While on a long distance drive I always bring my own with a stop here and there at a Grocery store or a place where I can fill my coffee cup. I mostly overnight in a B&B - feels safer and I like the homelike atmosphere - have stayed at some motels when I traveled with others but they were seldom as curious as I was about the history of a town. I am a sucker for some little out of the way small museum that is often in a preserved cabin and in towns, there has to be a stop at their local bookstore if there is one. Best bookstore in Oxford Miss. right on the square.
I will try to catch up over this weekend especially since it appears he is driving through areas I have never visited so that i can join you on the road - still busy but a little less so and finally, although rattling at night and coughing from time to time I am breathing with no undo effort...wheee. Been a long winter...
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Great to see your post Barb. Looking forward to more. Glad you are okay, just busy.
BTW, I've crossed Lake Michigan and am on the way to "The Thumb".
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I am way behind because I returned to California for some reason or other and found a misprint in the Revisited. I kept looking for Hot Creek on my atlas until LHM finally said he did get to Hat Creek. Oh, I saw Hat Creek in the atlas. Well, you are all way ahead of me but I wanted to know if anyone had looked up Black Elk. Here's a short link that can take you other places and does explain the Sacred Pipe and Black Elk.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Black_Elk
So our chipper author is off to where? The Snake river in Idaho and where else in Montana? What happens to North Dakota and Minnesota? See you there once I have squeezed through Oregon and Washington. I have been two places in Washington. Mount St Helens and Seattle. Mount St Helens was an eye opener. They give a history up to the volcano's recent explosion and then turn down the theatre lights and open the curtains that are across the front of the the theater and you are sitting on the edge of the last big blow. Many gasps of fright!
I have a cousin who lives in Missoula, Montana but have never visited her. We do stay in touch on Facebook.
Barbara, nice to know you are getting better.
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Barb! You're back! You've had quite a winter! We're so lucky to have you back with us! And catching up with real determination! I love reliving the trip, retracing his itinerary ...and especially liked it when you said "the conversations he had on his way to Nameless were the sounds and attitudes familiar to me." I can almost hear the bored waitress talking to him. I know he had a recorder with him, but surely he wasn't using it in situations like this...
Looking forward to hearing what you, Annie, nlhome and Fry have to say about what you're reading of these northern states -
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Annie, loved reading the link on Black Elk's book, the Sacred Pipe.. We've been reading his influence on Least Heat Moon...
A few things jumped out at me...
- "Everything an Indian does is in a circle, and that is because the power of the world always works in circles, and everything tries to be round. In the old days when we were a strong and happy people, all our power came to us from the sacred hoop of the nation, and so long as the hoop was unbroken the people flourished."
Does this explain why he chose a circular trip around the US?
- "It is good to have a reminder of death before us, for it helps us to understand the impermanence of life on this earth, and this understanding may aid us in preparing for our own death."
This quote reminded me of LHM's time with the hang glider who told him why he was addicted to flying : you put everything on the line, subconsciously asking the most important question in the world, "is this the day I die?"
You're completely in the moment...not looking back, as LHM has been doing.
After reading this, I found myself asking the same question. A sobering thought...
Where are you today, Annie? I hope you don't skip Montana, but it sound like you're in North Dakota. Bruce tells me that's the one state in the lower 48 he's never visited. He's trying to "bundle" it into another trip- north of North Dakota?
Or are you back in Hat Creek ! :D
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I learned when Leslie Marmon Silko came as a visiting professor a few years ago to then Southwest Texas U which now is Texas State University and when LBJ attended it was called Southwest Texas State Normal School - anyhow back to Silko who explained that "Everything an Indian does is in a circle," and that includes time
Telling a story, everything, regardless how much we think it is in the past is spoken of in the present, as if dead relatives are right there speaking and the future the same - there is only the circle of now and all that was and will be is in the circle now - which I could only grasp as if my mind is in the now and if I think of a memory or of told history or of heard or read future events my mind is now and all those thoughts are in the now.
This may not be the way a native American would explain it but it as the closest I could come to understanding. Her books, more than Pulitzer Prize winner House Made of Dawn or any of N. Scott Momaday's books, her's are written closer to the hoop of time with characters separated by the white man's time in the now, in conversation within the story as all of a piece, within the hoop of time as if everyone is present in the same time.
I've since learned there are many cultures who think in this circular time without a past or future.
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The Palouse is a little more wavy than I thought. Impressive pix:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Palouse&client=firefox-a&hs=Bjr&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FGM1U_rdK4W4qAGC5YAQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1190&bih=675&dpr=1
I never connected the Palouse with the Appaloosa horse. The Palouse Indians are loosely related to the Nez Perce
who are closely associated with the breed. If you can find it, here is a history of the Palouse beginning with the Lewis and Clark Expedition. http://www.amazon.com/Renegade-Tribe-Palouse-Invasion-Northwest/dp/0874220270
Aside from Idaho potatoes (which I love), the only association I've had with the state, to my knowledge, was meeting an Idahoan stationed at Andrews Air Force Base. At the time was looking forward to retirement in a year or so and was excited about going back to his home state and fishing.
LHM's encounters with Arthur O. Bakke and the runaway were very interesting. I was wondering why he declined Bakke's suggestion that he travel on to N. Dakota with him when he said he liked him very much. In both cases, LHM commented that he missed the companionship when they were dropped at their destinations. He seemed terribly bored and somewhat irritated by the miles and miles of sameness in the landscape. The people he met, for the most part, though not exactly unfriendly, were not interested in conversation with a stranger either.
I got the impression he was not too impressed with Browning, MT. I just checked the Senior Net site. The Blackfeet tribe is still associated with them. Senior Net lists four other tribal initiatives opened between 2006 and 2008; I only remember the Blackfeet center. It's hard to believe I've been with our group for so long.
I wish LHM had included a few more photos with his book. Which brings me to a set of Smithsonian guides to historic places (publication date, 1989) now residing in the little Friends of the Library bookstore downstairs from my branch library. I almost bought them then and there. Too bad I didn't see them earlier in our trip. I still might go back and get them; sometimes it is just nicer to have a physical book to research then a net search.
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Fry, I was expecting he'd want to continue his conversation with Arthur Bakke too... They had so much in common - both coming from failed marriages, turning to the road (one on foot, the other wheels)...and both intensely interested in the spiritual. The one real difference I saw - when Least Heat Moon said to Bakke: "I don't have your belief, your purpose " I wondered if LHM would become more aware of this - and develop a sense of purpose before the trip is done?
"I wish LHM had included a few more photos with his book."
Yes, I was just looking at the photos he included in the center of the book I'm reading...there's one of Arthur Bakke (https://www.google.com/search?q=Arthur+O.+Bakke&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS491&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_Ik1U7STIsi0sQTOo4HoAQ&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=766) in this group. (Also a photo of his tombstone.)
After reading your post I was struck with the realization that he's included only photographs of PEOPLE...no LANDSCAPES in his book. I think he's included photos of the people who made the greatest impression on him.
I suppose he could have taken scenic shots, must have taken many more pix than he's included in Blue Highways...but I had another thought.
People come from all over the world to see GLACIER National Park. I remember going through the northern route, stopping at Glacier...listening to a man who was there from Europe to see the mountain. Because of the mist, low ceiling, you couldn't see up very far. He said he'd been hanging around for three days waiting for the sky to clear.
LHM never comments on the beauty around him, doesn't ooh and ahh over what he's seeing. Just talks about how lonely he is. Do you think he's too involved with himself, has not yet begun to reach out?
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Interesting sites on the Nez Perce and the Palouse Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Fry. Beautiful photos of the Palouse. I need to spend more time reading them. Trying to decide if LHM brings up so much of the Indian history and lore in these parts because he's researching from this point of view...or if it was because this was the Indians' land - so much of the history of the west in particular was that of the Indians...followed by their wars, or trading with fur traders, missionaries...
The reservations are the living history. Here's a gallery - the Browning Montana Blackfeet (http://www.browningmontana.com/oldgallery7.html)
Yes, yes, we did have a connection with the Blackfeet...when we were the OLD SENIORNET. I'm sure some of you remember our
SeniorNet Blackfeet BOOKS PROJECT (http://www.seniornet.org/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=308&itemid=1)
Glance over this link if you have a minute. We shipped many many books...tons, to the Early Learning Center in Browning and the Boarding school there. When the SeniorNet site crashed, never to return, all of our contacts with the Indian children went with it. I wonder what they thought?
I think the New SeniorNet (not an online site) with IBM, set up a Computer Learning Center for adults...but the childrens's book donation never got jump started again.
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JoanP, your link led me to this. What a wonderful addendum to the Arthur O. Bakke story it is.
http://elementalgypsy.com/2011/05/28/blue-highways/
PS: It looks like someone else remembered him too from the comment below the blog.
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Oh, Fry! How wonderful! You have to read it to the end, to the last paragraphs!
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Joan and Frybabe, that is an amazing link to Arthur Babbe! Imagine how many people must have gotten acquainted with him without knowing the entire story.
This has been a pleasant but very very busy week - and I'm just now at a point of having time to look at the various links about the countryside in the far Northwest.
Most of my connection with that area has been from the air. I flew into Spokane for several days' visit with my cousins. One day, we drove to Coeur D'Alene, Idaho and had a boat cruise around the big lake there.
Then I flew to Bellingham, Washington for an Elderhostel.
A visit to Mt Shasta and a private whale-watching tour around the small islands were included in that program.
Another time, I was on a tour of the western Rockies that started in Seattle, ferried to Victoria and then to Vancouver- and continued by train to Banff.
Always wanted to tour or do an Elderhostel along the Columbia River but, sadly, travel days ended before I could do so.
I did visit a friend in Jeffrey City, Wyoming. We drove to Jackson Hole for an Arts In The Parks exhibit. So I did experience the "wide open spaces" from ground level there.
Ivan Doig has written some novels set in Montana that describe that state east of the Rockies well.
Joan, I think LMH's focus on this trip was the people - and himself! - rather than the country he was traveling through. On the few times he describes the landscape, it's usually in connection with his feeling lonely, being lost and other negativities.
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Callie! You have really been around this area! Did you keep scrapbooks, photos of your travels? I'm finding it so much fun to page through albums and relive the details of past trips. I'm sure that's how Least Heat Moon felt too!
Your mention of Ivan Doig sent me back to our Archives here when we discussed his Dancing at the Rascal Fair in 2011 - Didn't we have fun with that one? I remember following up with the continuation of the trilogy. I see so many of you in that discussion...among them, Maryz, Salan, PatH - and you, Callie - your posts were on the first page I looked at. And dear Babi , her posts and her love for Ivan Doig's works still shine through!
Blackfeet territory -
(http://www.browningmontana.com/images/blackfeetnationmap.gif)
Map from our discussion of Ivan Doig's Dancing at the Rascal Fair
Memories!
Looking at my scrapbook, I see no photos of Browning. Bruce says it was raining when we went through in Sept, 2004. Doesn't recall seeing a real town, just some buildings, with no storefronts. Could be we weren't in the right place. We did see several people out - but not many. The town and the people looked very poor - and there wasn't any real placed to stop.
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I think LMH's focus on this trip was the people - and himself! - rather than the country he was traveling through. On the few times he describes the landscape, it's usually in connection with his feeling lonely, being lost and other negativities. Callie
Oh Callie, I agree. I think this is what makes his travelogue so different from others - the conversations he manages to get going with the people along the way. When we travel, we are more into the landscapes...the scenery and the landmarks. As MaryZ put it several weeks ago, we like to "eavesdrop" on conversations rather than get involved. (Unless you're adoannie, that is. :D)
Felt sorry for him following him through the northern states. More difficult to get conversation going here than elsewhere - unless you count the hitchhikers he met along the way. But he did learn from them!
He writes of the desolate Route2 - and I agree! Not many places to stop for fuel or a cup of coffee...
We were traveling east-west on the way to Glacier - (where it rained the whole time.) When you add rain to the empty road, you need company and conversation!
I don't remember Shelby, but we did stop for the night in Cut Bank. People there in the motel - and the restaurant next door (the French Quarters) were quite hospitable. (Least Half Moon would have loved it, but he didn't stop here - went on to Shelby.) They took us for tourists - which we were - everyone who stopped was going to or coming from Glacier. They tried very hard to impress us with their French menu - (they had two menus - one hot dogs and franks, the other, "gourmet" - Cajun alligator legs was one thing I remember on the menu. It was really an amusing stop...and they had a computer available in another competing motel across the street! That made me very happy after a long day on the road!
(http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/cutbank.jpg)
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After Shelby, on desolate US2, Least Heat Moon gets sick - for first time on the trip, wasn't it? And then, in Backoo, North Dakota, his fuel line goes. on Saturday - nothing open. Don't know about you...I would have been really, really down!
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Joan, yes, I have albums (photos and comments) about my 10-year Traveling Adventures. I enjoy going through them, too - 'specially when I come across a t v show about an area I've visited or a discussion like this one.
However, I have never flown over nor driven through the far northern route he takes from Washington state to the East Coast.
I think it must have been the Ivan Doig discussion that inspired me to read the rest of his books.
With my limited ability to see an author's deeper meaning, I had not been reading with an eye to what LMH may be learning. Although I'll have to turn in the book this week, I plan to spend some time seeing if I can figure that out.
Any hints for the "interpretive challenged" will be appreciated. :D
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We,too have pictures from Oregon and Washington and even a few like yours up at Mt Hood. Also, we did learn that Astoria is the oldest town west of the Mississippi.
Also, had forgotten that we vacationed in one of the national parks up in northwest Washington. Olympic NP showed us many sites from a rain forest, mountains with creeks running so fast with water of turquoise beauty, beaches with the tide pools that one takes a long time studying, looking for what it holds, the Straits of Juan de Fucca and Victoria right across from us but so far away. We stayed along one of the lakes there with my brother and SIL for a week. Lake Crescent! Saw a lady catch what they said was very large for that lake. Can't remember what it was, but she was so excited and boated around the lake holding the fish up for all to see. Another Kodak moment.
Since I have backtracked in BH, I guess I must return to Idaho, Montana. Right?? Still reading and rereading BH and enjoying all the travel stories in our discussion. Have never been to Idaho or Montana but have a cousin who lives on the Bitterroot River just south of Missoula where she and her DH have raised a family of 5 and they are now traveling about to the different western states where their children have made their homes. Of, course, like you and Bruce and Ralph and I do, visiting the grandchildren!
Looking in my atlas, I am unable to find RT 14 and wonder if its now Rt 12? 12 seems to be following LHM's travels. I like that he made the effort to stop and see Fred Tomlins in Moscow,ID. And then, Revisited found him again in Eagle Point, OR where he went after retiring. He tells of getting his master's degree in wild lands recreation management and accepting a job in Medford, OR as an outdoor recreation planner and managed outfitters on the Rogue and Klamath rivers. He retired after 34 years of federal service. He says that "Heat-Moon made that flight sound a lot more exciting than it was." I suspected the difference in opinion was one of perspective. Fred told Heat-Moon his idea of having fun, "Flying ten feet off the ground at Mach one."
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Our discussion has encouraged me to download several books by Ruben Gold Thwaites. One book is about his travels down the Rock, Fox and Wisconsin Rivers, and one about his travels down the Ohio Rivder, and the other is about Wisconsin.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/38556
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29306
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/38137
I don't know if I will read them all, but they will be handy, I am sure, when I get my hands on LHM's book, River Horse: The Logbook of a Boat Across America.
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Just in - eager to talk about some of the places - and people of Part EIGHT - don't want to skip over several important chapters in that section. SO, let's take another day and wait for comments from everyone else. I get concerned when there is no communication on the long route.
"Since I have backtracked in BH, I guess I must return to Idaho, Montana." Annie Yes, and don't forget North Dakota and Michigan
It was good hearing about Fred Tomlins' retirement - and funny that he didn't think flying over the Snake River was as big a deal as Heat Moon wrote about.
Snake River - Evel Knivel's attempt/crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llzIVDbvSAc) -
Here's a look at the new revised discussion schedule - same as in the heading...
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast~The Carolinas, Georgia)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest) ~ Oregon
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-30 (North by Northwest) ~ Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Michigan
Part EIGHT ~ March 31-April 2 (North by Northeast) ~ New York, Vermont, New Hampshire
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"I think LMH's focus on this trip was the people - and himself! - rather than the country he was traveling through. On the few times he describes the landscape, it's usually in connection with his feeling lonely, being lost and other negativities." Callie
Callie, you also wrote - "with my limited ability to see an author's deeper meaning, I had not been reading with an eye to what LMH may be learning."
I think you are doing fine, trying to figure out what he is learning - this is all subjective, isn't it? We seem to being seeing things a bit differently. Some of us don't see him as being particularly lonely. Some of us do.
I thought it was telling when he wrote: ..."The purpose of my trip was to be inconvenienced so I might see what would come from dislocation and disruption. Answer: severe irritability."
He sure has dislocated and disrupted his routine on the road. Is it my imagination - do you see the "severe irritability," even anger for the first time - as he sees what has become of the land, the towns and even the people he comes in contact with?
It was heartwarming though, when the mechanics didn't try to soak him as he expected, wasn't it?
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Fry...you might want to consider adding PrairyErth, Least Heat Moon's sequel to Blue Highways...in which he confines himself to one small county in Kansas! A departure from the sweeping picture of the country we see in Blue Highways - but perhaps, the same theme?
This new work from the author of Blue Highways ( LJ 11/1/82) is an immersion into the past, present, and future of Chase County in south central Kansas. Located in the heart of the Flint Hills, the sparsely populated area contains one of the best remaining tracts of tallgrass prairie that once covered much of the Midwest. ("PrairyErth" is an old geologic term for prairie soils). Having spent six years engaging in "participatory history," Heat-Moon creates a feel for the land and a rural way of life that seems to be dead or dying across America. Dividing his book into quadrangles, he presents a verbal map that examines the county's geological, natural, and human history. This is a fascinating book that could be improved only with the addition of an index. Highly recommended, especially for local, natural, and Western history collections.
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Before we say goodbye to Montana, I have a nice story to tell of a good friend of ours who was born on one of the Montana's ranches. He was told that Charles Russell had worked as a cowboy at their Woodward Ranch. Russell was an honored artist and story teller whose life ended as our friend, a Woodward, was being born in 1925. When we visited the Amon Carter Art Museum in Fort Worth, TX in 1980, I spent a great deal of my time reading letters from Russell and Remington, another well known artist, telling each other funny stories about their different lives. That's my story and I'm sticking' to it! I just finished reading the Montana History Book that tells about the open range ranches in Montana and Charlie Russell's influences on the other cowboys in the Boseman area.
I do remember us sending books to the Blackfoot Indians and I was in charge of the Cass Lake reservation and talked to the lady in Minnestota about what books and authors we both liked, such as, Louise Erdrich who writes for children and adults.
Now, I must toddle off to my book and read about North Dakota and Minnesota and Michigan before I join you in Michigan.Ta Ta!!
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It's in the back of my mind, JoanP, but I want to do his River Horse first.
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That's interesting, Annie. When I was in my horse phase up through high school, I loved looking at the Remington and Russell paintings. If pressed, I would have to say I liked Russell's paintings a wee more than Remington's. I didn't know they corresponded. Perhaps someone has put together a volume of their letters, I'll have to investigate.
An earlier artist I enjoy is George Catlin. When Mom passed away I retrieved the two volumes of his letters, notes and art that I had originally given to my parents (Dad especially liked his work).
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Did you get the feeling while he was driving, driving, driving through all those northern states, that he was getting desperate for conversation? I was - knowing how much he depended on people. Not too many conversations this time...but we ought to pay attention to the few that he wrote about here...the teenage runaway for example.
Fry, one thing struck me in the Publishers' Weekly description of Prairyerth - written after he finished Blue Highways - "Heat-Moon creates a feel for the land and a rural way of life that seems to be dead or dying across America." I've a feeling that he's picking up this theme in his circular travel in America.
Annie, that is a good story - do you remember reading anything about the Blackfeet or other Indians in Montana back in the 1920's? I know Remington painted many pictures of Indians
(http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!Bnubsi!CGk~$(KGrHqIH-E!Etr2s)ytZBLkrzmv-!w~~_35.JPG)
Fry - I read this about George Catlin - "No artist devoted himself more passionately to a single subject than George Catlin. ... Catlin, who is accused by some of exploiting the Indians he painted ..."
I wonder if anyone is painting the Indians on reservations today...
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Your question interested me, JoanP, so I am off on a research tangent again. Found this interesting article in Native Peoples Magazine (didn't know it existed) about Ledger Art:
http://www.nativepeoples.com/Native-Peoples/September-October-2011/Looking-Between-the-Lines/
Wikipedia has a list of Native American Artists and their tribal affiliation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Native_American_artists
Most of what I am seeing in my research of contemporary painting of Native Americans is art they themselves are doing. Contemporary/modern, whatever, not my style.
Oh heavens, we are getting sleet/ice rain. Will this winter never let go?
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My next connection is somewhat incredible and is my story of Minnesota. In following LHM's travel thru Ninnesota, I came upon a familiar town name, Bimidji, MN!
This is another story of coincidences. Back in the early 1950's, my brother Joe, and our cousin used to drive up to Bimidji in the summer when Bill had time away from the seminary where he was studying to become a priest. They went to go fishing and had a glorious time every summer. Meanwhile, my MIL's widowed sister, married a man who owned a chicken farm (this is no lie! My Aunt Grace worked for this man as his accountant,) in Indianapolis, IN. They retired to run a summer camp in BAMIDJI, MN and to live in Florida in the summer. Now, I see Bamidji on my atlas is only 12 miles down the road from Cass Lake, MN, where I was in contact with a Blackfoot Seniornet center(there's a picture somewhere, right JoanP?) As usual, my socks blew right off when I read all this. My only connection otherwise was, while attending Purdue University, we drove up there for a Thanksgiving vacation in Minneapolis,(also in the 50's), taking 4 adults and 3 kids under the age of 4. Not a good adult idea! We had taken a picnic to eat in the car which was gone before we reached Chicago! But the kids slept all night so all went pretty well.
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Sleeting, no, now it's heavy snow here too, Fry Weird to see the daffodils, forsythia and snow - again!
Annie, if you scroll back to post #291, there's a link to SeniorNet Books Projects...it says Blackfeet, but you'll see the Cass Lake address mentioned on that page. Would you believe that's the only thing left of those pages once they shut us down?
Do you think they'd answer if you wrote to see how they are doing?
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Here's a link to the collection of Remington and Russell paintings at the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum in Oklahoma City. There are also some wonderful Remington sculptures.
]http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/research/about/galleries/remingtonandrussell.aspx] (http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/research/about/galleries/remingtonandrussell.aspx)
As I read through the sections on New York and New England, I realized I have been in the areas where he travelled. It was a coach tour from Oklahoma City in 2003 and we made a huge circle from OKC - Detroit - across southern Ontario to Niagra Falls - over to Kennebunkport ME - down through the Blue Ridge Mts. to I-40 - and west to OKC. We traveled 4,759 miles through 17 states and Ontario. Our tour guide gave us a road map of each state as we went through.
Two personal highlights were meeting participants on SeniorNet in Guelph, Ontario and Hershey, PA. In Hershey, the SN group took me to lunch at a new restaurant in town......a Texas Road House! I felt right at home (although I was expecting something Amish :D )
Joan, will the URL you sent me for posting earlier pictures work for others, also - or do I need a new one for each picture?
One comment on the last discussion question for Part VII: "Does this mean LMH has the appearance of an Indian"....
Back in Chapter 3, he wrote: "A mixed blood is a contaminated man who will be trusted by neither red nor white."
Two comments from Wisconsin:
"Across the central North...people (are) polite but reserved...(at) other times, simply too taciturn to exchange the banalities and clichés necessary to find a base for conversation." I wonder what he considers "banalities and clichés"?
"I hadn't seen the Wisconsin of my blue highway preconceptions. Little is so satisfying to the traveler as realizing he missed seeing what he assumed to be in a place before he went."
This is so true about Oklahoma!!!!! Many people assume it's all flat and dusty and that everyone dresses like cowboys, plays a guitar and sings C/W music....and probably owns an oil well.
All I can say is, "C'mon out/over and see for yourself". :)
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Before we move out of the North, I'd love to know what you thought of that business man in the dorm at Central Michigan University where Heat Moon tried to spend the night- after getting permission from the RA. I can understand the man was surprised...thought he had a private room. But when he saw LHM, did you see what he said?
"Who's the creep in my room? Tonto?"
What did you think when you read that?
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I raised my eyebrows a bit JoanP. In the picture of LHM on the back bookcover, he does not look particularly NA to me. His current picture in Wikipedia doesn't either.
It does bring up a question though, did you notice how many colleges he stopped at for a meal? I wonder if he had some kind of courtesy ID that got him on campuses and into the canteens because of his former job or if people just didn't check. Actually, it would probably be easy, just park in the visitors parking and get a visitors pass (or not). I don't think campus security was as tight back then as it is now.
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I am just beginning north by northwest. I ran out of gas & and am having trouble locating a station to fill up !! The weather has been so nice (but rather windy) that I had to get plants & potting soil and work on getting my planters filled. Now I am kind of creaking along & getting ready to get in my jacuzzi to soak sore muscles. I plan on filling up & continuing the journey tomorrow!
Sally
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Callie,
We spent a whole day at the Cowboy Hall of Fame in OKC back in the 70's with our son and his wife who were stationed at the AFB in OKC. But, I don't remember if that exhibit was there or not. Sure would have enjoyed seeing it. Got some great photos, my favorite was the "End of the Trail" sculpture which came out well. Did you see the tear running down his cheek?
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JoanP, my mistake, I thought that my reservation was a Blackfoot one but no it wasn't. I see now that I was in charge of the Least Lake Ojibwe Reservation which sponsored the Least Lake Youth Program and was in Cass Lake, MN. Sorry about that!! I doubt that they would remember us since SN dumped us. I wonder if SN still sponsors those learning centers? Probably not, since they caught on to the fact that most seniors are not computer illiterate!! Hahaha!
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I thought he looked like an old hippie! And not an indian. Am I wrong?
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I am a little confused about the Blackfoot/Ojibwe. I am sure we all referred the SeniorNet program as being Blackfoot. Now we have the Ojibwe. Are these two one and the same? A reference I saw a few minutes back when doing a brief research said that the Ojibwe are related to the Blackfoot, but didn't actually say they are Blackfoot. When I Googled Blackfoot Cass Lake, I got the Ojibwe sites. Curiosity means I will have to research further later on. SeniorNet still sponsors the program at that site, as well as several other NA programs around the US.
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Good morning, Fry!
About the old, now defunct
SeniorNet Blackfeet BOOKS PROJECT (http://www.seniornet.org/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=308&itemid=1) -
Clicking this old link, still visible on-line, you will see that there were indeed three different Children's book projects going on in different parts of the country. The Cass Lake, MN project, Annie was working on - and the Browning MT project. Since we were going through the Blackfeet territory this past week, I simply referred to it as the Blackfeet Project here in this discussion.
The children's book program got started when the then-Parent SeniorNet formed a partnership with IBM to set up computer learning centers for adults on reservations. I assume these learning centers are still in operation. The Children's Book Projects that we started, to my knowledge, no longer exists. We were the only volunteers who staffed that effort. I'll check with Marcie, she'll know more, I think.
It would be interesting to hear the results of any research that you do regarding a relationship between the Ojibwe and the Blackfeet. I didn't know there was one. LHM will be meeting an old friend in the next section - who is of Objibwe and Scottish descent.
Let's wait just one more day to begin discussing that section so that Annie, Salan, and others have another chance to catch up with us!. :D We'll start Part EIGHT (North by Northeast ~ New York, Vermont, New Hampshire) tomorrow, rain or shine!
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest)
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-31(North by Northwest)
Part EIGHT ~ April 1-3 (North by Northeast) ~ NY, VT, NH
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
Recent Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
April 1-2-3 Part VIII North by Northeast ~ New York, Vermont, New Hampshire
1. Do you notice the many four and five syllable names of rivers, lakes and mountains in the Northeast area of the country? Have you visited any of these places? Is Least Heat Moon making a point by making us aware of these Indian names?
2. What did Heat Moon's old friend, Scott Chisholm (of Ojibiway and Scottish descent) and his friend, Pete Marvin/Pierangelo Masucci, have in common?
"You learn what you want to do." Can a self-made man still make it on the land today?
3. Didn't you love Filomena, Pete's Italian mother? Do we get an idea of what life has been like for women at this time? Is it fair to compare her life with those of Native American women who lived on the land?
4. "You've got wings on your feet," Scott Chisholm told Heat Moon. Did he seem surprised that LHM was leaving after spending happy evenings at his table with his family? Do you think he might be hurrying back to his own home?
5. Is Heat Moon finding opportunities to speak to the residents of small New York towns as he drives through - Lake Oneida, Rome, the Adirondacks?
6. Was he more successful finding conversation in Vermont's inns, restaurants and villages?
Where did he learn about the Norman Rockwell town of Woodstock, which was described in 1761 as "unfit for habitation, except for the Indians"? What did he learn on the Bagleys' front porch? Or at the Woodstock Inn, owned by Laurence Rockefeller?
7. "I took my broken marriage to the highway, attempted to tuck it away for 11,000 miles." He writes of stopping in Hanover, NH and overhearing two men talking about how a baby saved a marriage. Is this when he decided to phone the Cherokee about chances of getting back together? How did that go?
8. Did Heat Moon ever learn how Melvin Village got its name? What did he learn from Marion Horner Robie, the town's big cheese, and her cousin, Tom Hunter, the sugar man, still farming the original land for seven generations?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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Annie, that's very interesting - your understanding of the "Tonto" reference. Maybe he had long hair - a pony tail? I hadn't considered the idea that Heat Moon might not have had a haircut since Dime Box, TX - remember it was the best haircut he ever had. I immediately thought of that woman back in Oregon who commented in LHM's hearing - that "his type made her nervous." Could she have been referring to his unkempt appearance? Do you suppose that she too thought he looked like a "hippie"? This was the seventies. Hippies made a lot of people nervous back then, no?
Maybe, just maybe that's were both comments referring to. I assumed that they were referring to his Indian appearance. Even if they weren't, do you think Heat Moon took them as a racial slur of sorts? He spends a lot of time referring to the American Indians and their lost land as he travels across the north.
And Callie noted his sensitivity to the race issue - Back in Chapter 3, he wrote: "A mixed blood is a contaminated man who will be trusted by neither red nor white."
How did others understand it?
ps Callie - somehow I missed your last post until now. Am on the way out the door right now - will read it closely when I get in - but will say that each photo has to be entered seperately - it was no trouble uploading yours when you mailed them to me, individually.
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Annie, when you visited The Cowboy Hall of Fame, "The End of The Trail" was in a room just barely big enough to hold the huge statue.
Quoting from an Oklahoma History and Culture Encyclopedia: Between 1991 and 1997 the original facility was renovated and an additional 140,000 square feet added, bringing the museum up to 220,000 square feet.
The statue was moved to a prominent spot in the foyer of the main building and the room where it was has become a wonderful Hands-On children's area.
https://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/education/lesson-plans/Fraser/Fraser.aspx (https://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/education/lesson-plans/Fraser/Fraser.aspx)
Yes, I have seen the tear.
I agree that LMH probably looked like an unkempt hippie. He doesn't write about personal details; the only bathing he mentions is done in streams or lakes and he never mentions doing laundry. I can't find the exact reference but I think he left with less than $300.00 cash in his pocket. He must be using a credit card to buy gas!!
Neither was he in the best of moods when he stopped in the dorm!
The people who criticize him are all part of the "main-stream" world. Do you think he has a prejudice, too?
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Okay, this connection between Blackfoot and Ojibwe is giving me a headache. What with all the different names given to the same tribes/bands and all the moving around these people endured over the years. Basically, what I got is that the Blackfoot and the Ojibwe (also known as Chippewa, Saulteaux, Anishinaabe) are considered "sister" nations because of the language similarities. The Blackfoot, as I remembered from earlier readings, is a loose confederation based on those tribes that speak the same or a dialect of same language. Both languages are part of the Algonquin language system. They are mainly settled in the same Alberta, Canada and Montana.
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I didn't expect him to write about doing laundry or sweeping out the van or regular chores like washing up his dishes. Those weren't important to him or to the flow of the book. Obviously, where and what he ate and drank was, as were the people he saw and talked with and some of the sights and the birds. It was a long trip, crammed into a fairly short time, and then crammed into a book. I suspect if I made that trip, I would have picked out different views and people to write about, less with food, more with scenery. Not being a native American, I probably would have had a different perspective about some of the places he visited and the history he wrote about.
He traveled rather quickly through Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan - I enjoyed reading about that part of the trip. We've followed Highway 2 to the middle of North Dakota and then into Montana from Wisconsin. We have ties to northern Wisconsin and the north woods those trees can make the highway seem almost like a tunnel, especially at night when them seem to line the road closely.
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Fry,
Somewhere in the book, he did mention doing his laundry but I can't give a page for that. That was the only time he mentioned doing his laundry.
Callie,
Thanks so much for the link to the new room that holds "The End of the Trail."
I also remember seeing a western piece of art with a locomotive in it. We later had a puzzle almost exactly like it. Where are the Russell and Remington pieces located? Were any of the letters included?
Someone mentioned liking Catlin. I seem to remember one of the two R&R's knowing or specifically liking his art.
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Annie, it's been a long time since I've been to "The Hall" (as it's known locally) so I don't know about any R & R letters. Here's a link to the Gallery in which their paintings and sculptures are located:
http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/research/about/galleries/artofthewest.aspx#infoartwest (http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/research/about/galleries/artofthewest.aspx#infoartwest)
Several years ago, when the Frederick Remington museum in Ogdensburg, New York was renovated, a large portion of the collection was brought to Oklahoma City while the renovation was taking place. I remember going to see it but I regret that I don't really remember very many details.
nlhome: I didn't expect him to write about personal details, either, and appreciate that he didn't. :)
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Annie, that wasn't me mentioning the laundry. I also noticed a laundry mention, but only once and I think it was relatively early on.
I'm now in Vermont. Seems to me I had comments or a question regarding the NY portion of his trip, but I didn't write it down last night, so naturally, I forgot it. Sigh!
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Here's a photo of young Bill Trogdon - difficult to find -
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRfiUgGXeCLp6ZM-Y75zbqaOB7hlrcSirIwjYH-4cJ0Tz_Vzur)
I can imagine him, with his dark complexion - add some facial hair, and long hair (maybe even a pony tail) - can see either an "unkempt hippie" - OR if in a part of the country where there are still Indians, then I can see him taken as an Indian as well. We really don't know much about him, do we... except that a great great great white grandaddy made his way to Missouri, married into an Osage family there. After that, we know nothing more about his background and subsequent grandparents - except that he considered himself a "half-breed"...
"The people who criticize him are all part of the "main-stream" world. Do you think he has a prejudice, too?"
I think that's a very good question, Callie. If not "prejudice" at least a strong sensitivity, expecting the half-breed designation he has grown up with to follow him around the country-expecting prejudice when none was intended.
"Not being a native American, I probably would have had a different perspective about some of the places he visited and the history he wrote about." nlhome
Exactly! I have to say that I never met - or even saw anyone who was a Native American, until making a trip to the west and northwest, years ago. And those I met, didn't look at all as those I had seen in paintings.
Thanks for those links to museums and artists. We have a relatively new Native American museum in DC - I was there when it first opened, was not yet completed - but have heard from so many that it is worth a return trip. Have any of you ever visited? National Museum of the American Indian - Washington, DC (http://nmai.si.edu/home/)
"He traveled rather quickly through Minnesota and Wisconsin and Michigan."nlhome
I notice increasing irritability and a growing impatience as he sped through those states too. Sadness too. The only conversation I remember was that with the teenage runaway. He seemed really interested in her father and his unfulfilled dreams, I thought.
What did he miss abouut these places, nlhome? Please do share some of your memories. When is the best time of the year to visit?
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Marcie's memory is the same as mine regarding SeniorNet's connection to the Learning Centers on reservations. The only volunteer book donations were ours, the SeniorNet Books, which abruptly ended when the web site went down, never to be restored. The Learning Centers on reservations continue, but they show only sponsorship with IBM now.
The Native American Learning Centers are still listed but I don't know if the list is completely up to date. Some of the other info on the website is not. There is a list of learning centers on the SeniorNet website at http://www.seniornet.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=725&Itemid=94
It would be interesting to know how these centers are operating today.
Time to begin the North by Northeast section of the country today - New York, Vermont and New Hampshire. Maybe we'll jog your memory for your lost thought, Fry- Did it have anything to do with the fact that the friend he spends time with in New York was of Ojibiway descent?
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Did it have anything to do with the fact that the friend he spends time with in New York was of Ojibiway descent?
No, JoanP, I don't think so. I do remember the encounter he had with the local police in Woodstock (?), Vermont, though. He either has not written the whole conversation with inquisitive people and authority, or he is not at all forthcoming about his intentions. Some people he did confide in, but for the most part, especially with cops, he seems to be less than forthcoming. He only seems to state his immediate needs or interest, and rather snarkily at times, but not why he is traveling the way he is.
Which brings up a question. Did he say he planned to write a book about his travel at the beginning? I don't remember seeing it. I know he took notes and pictures along the way, but was that a habit of his in case of an opportunity (something I might expect from a photojournalist or writer) or was it a definite plan to write a book?
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Since I am trying to follow LMH in my atlas, I must say that I haven't been able to find Chesire or Canandaigua Lake. My blues are now reds using his route numbers. Well, he wasn't particularly interested in Michigan. So I followed him through Ontario and found him back in the states just north of Niagara Falls. And "Revisited" has a picture of the Hill Cumorah Monument on Rt 21. At the very top of the monument stands the angel, Moroni, the angel who Joseph Smith said delivered to him in 1827 the golden plates from which The Book of Mormon was translated.
LMH then follows Rt 31 to the Erie Canal in Lyons,NY.
The next pictures in "Revisited" are of The Cato Hotel, Cato,NY on Rt 370 and Goettel Community Part, Cato, NY on Rt 370. LHM'' next stop was at Ben and Bernies Diner off Rt 49. Here one could look out over Lake Oneida where LHM writes that many of the homes on the north shore of the lake "were losing to the North climate, an for miles it was a place of sag and dilapidation". "Revisited" says "in 2008 I saw only handsome homes along the lake."
Next stop is Fort Stanwix National Monument, Rome,NY on Rts 49 and 46. I am really glad that I checked out "Revisited" as the author says that "when LHM went through the area in 1978, urban renewal in and around made the city look like "London in 1946". "Revisited" comments, "The Fort once provided protection for the Oneida Carrying Place, the route for trade between the Atlantic and Lake Ontario. It now offers a beautiful green historical park in the heart of Rome, NY." Looks worth visiting if one is in the area.
Our daughter lives in Ithaca, NY and we visited the Seneca Falls "National Women's Hall of Fame" back in the 90's. There is so much history in the state of NY, one can travel just about anywhere there and find history and historical sites. Beautiful state.
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There is a wonderful picture of Fort Ticonderoga and Lake Champlain as seen from Mt Defiance off NY Rt 74 along with a paragraph of history of the importance of the strategic location of the Fort.
I am now off the Ticonderoga ferry and in Vermont. Back to our book.
About that pic, JoanP, I don't think LHM looks unkempt in it but he probably looked unkempt while on his journey.
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I found these web sites about the "mystics" he mentions along with Joseph Smith in New York.
Jemima Wilkinson: http://www.yatescounty.org/upload/12/historian/friend.html (http://www.yatescounty.org/upload/12/historian/friend.html)
The Fox Sisters: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-fox-sisters-and-the-rap-on-spiritualism-99663697/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-fox-sisters-and-the-rap-on-spiritualism-99663697/?no-ist)
Annie, I found Canandaigua Lake but it was labeled in teeny letters. I'm also following him in an Atlas and notice that he is using fewer blue roads as he nears the end of his journey. However, sometimes, it's because the Blue Highway blends into a red one.
Frybabe, in Chapter 5 of my edition, he shows a sketch of Ghost Dancing and lists the contents he's taking along. Included: "a satchel of notebooks, pens, road atlas and a microcassette recorder (and a) Nikon F2 35mm camera and fine lenses.".
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The hard back copy of the book I read had a full picture of him, standing, on the back of the dust jacket. He looked solid and stocky.
I think the road through the Wisconsin north woods and over toward Green Bay has a lot to offer. My memories are of trees, everywhere trees, so no long vistas. Also, there are many lakes, just as there are in Minnesota. What did he miss? - probably nothing, but perhaps he likes the open areas and the "open road" which unless a person is on the Interstate, is not so open in the far north. Some people mentioned the stops at bars - they are much closer together in Wisconsin. But he had the young girl with him, and he didn't need to stop for conversation.
The pace of the Great Lakes area and the NE is quicker, maybe than the south. I don't know. It just seemed as though he hurried more up there.
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Corrections to previous post:
Annie, I didn't find the lake in an Atlas; it was on the road map of New York State that our tour guide gave us during the New England tour.
Frybabe, he didn't take "fine" lenses; he took five (5).
Question #7 (his call to The Cherokee): Here we go again! After the phone call, he writes, "I went off looking for insight (but) all I got was desolation."
I wonder what her side of the story would be?
Is it harder for a person to emotionally let go of a spouse who leaves than it is for a person whose spouse dies? (When the ex-husband of a friend died, she said, "Now, I am a widow" - even though he had been remarried for more than 20 years)
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Here's a picture of Horseshoe Falls I took while having breakfast on the top floor of a hotel in Niagara Falls, Ontario. I thought of it when I read what LMH wrote about crossing into New York after driving 250 miles across Ontario in heavy rain: "...the Canadian sun turned the eastern cliffs orange."
(http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/calliefalls.jpg)
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Electric! Callie. Your pic would just fit right in with the "Revisited" photos. In fact, it would a very nice addition to that book.
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Annie, Canandaigua Lake is the fourth largest of the Finger Lakes. The city of Canandaiqua is at the northern end along the current route 20.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7536969,-77.2929378,11z
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Thanks, Fry! I should have recognized the name of it as one of my California drs inherited his mother's property on Canandaigua Lake and he moved his practice to that area in 1989. And, of course, since my daughter lives on Cayuga Lake, another of the Finger Lakes, I found Canandaigua. I do love that area of New York State!
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OH my what a dramatic photo of Horseshoe Falls - the falls with all its power seems dwarfed - marvelous.
Having seen several photos of the author and knowing he has and sometimes uses an English name - he not only looks like his English and Irish heritage, I bet his being hired as a professor was because he looked like other "white" men - I wonder when he started to use his Osage name - He does not sound like he has a strong relationship with his tribe - I am having a difficult time seeing him as a Native American writer in the genre of N. Scott Momaday, Leslie Marmon Silko, Charles Alexander Eastman, John Joseph Mathews 1/8th Osage, Diane Glancy, or my favorite who writes mostly poetry Jo Harjo - oh yes, I forgot Louise Erdrich - several of these writers are of mixed blood and yet, full blooded or mixed none of them use their Indian name.
Why would a guy go back a couple of generations and start to use a name that was attributed to someone in their family tree when they were named at birth with a different name. A women doing this I understand - we really do not own a name after we marry and then if divorced it is a game of dice as to what name you choose to use. Or as a writer men and women use pseudonym but this writer actually uses this Osage name as a legal name or maybe we do not have the whole story and it is useful to use this name as an author.
It is easy enough to blame the place in life he finds himself as the reason for his depressive attitudes - but then, you have to wonder which came first the chicken or the egg - I've been fighting this aspect of the book trying to finish it - the trip and many of the characters he writes about are wonderful vignettes of America showing the attitudes in various pockets of this nation but he is not a cheerful soul and he reminds me of the old saying about a howling dog - they howl at anything including the moon but never do anything more than howl - I guess driving around the nation is at least getting him out of a barcalounge in some isolated apartment.
I am not even sure I know what he hoped to achieve - he did not look into his Osage roots and so what was this all about - Never did read Jack Kerouac's On the Road which may be a prototype for this book both being nothing more than a travel book with some philosophy about life thrown in - the road being a metaphor for each of our lives and how we react in various circumstances is similar to how we react when life throws us a time like, his traveling through Montana, where loneliness was his reaction to a baron period in his life just as he reacted similarly to the baron landscape. Even more, he was the one who saw the landscape as baron - some of us are thrilled seeing all that sky and miles and miles of grasses in various shades from bleached tan, dove grey, khaki to various wine reds.
It sure fits him as he tried to skedaddle away with few folks to chat with and a flat windswept landscape - is that it - after his divorce he feels much like this scenery and his friends became as taciturn as those living in the great northwest so he skedaddled away on this road trip trying to fill his life with purpose and new however, temporary, contacts...?
Yep, William Least Heat-Moon both annoys me and is a head scratchier to me of what he is trying to achieve in his life taking this trip. Maybe there is nothing deeper than accumulating material to write this book. Whatever, his disposition is a spoiler everytime I pick up on the next phase of his travels. After a read I have to go in to my motivational blog so I can get back to thinking with a grateful heart.
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For you, Barbara. Here's the reason for the change in his name.
Born William Trogdon, in Kansas City, Mo., Least Heat-Moon found his pen name early on, when his scoutmaster father, of Osage descent, christened himself “Heat Moon,” William’s brother “Little Heat Moon” and William “Least Heat Moon.” (The hyphen, he says, came later, after he’d been addressed as “Mr. Moon” one too many times.)
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aha Pen Name - and Osage descent - thanks Ann - So it is a pseudonym - sounds like a tie to his father and some strong memories that tightens the ties between father and his two sons. But is also suggests there are not strong ties to the Osage.
I am sure I have expectations of someone who uses a Native American name that the writing will be in the genre of the writing of most First Nation authors. He really cannot write from the viewpoint of someone close to their tribal roots because it appears he had a more typical boyhood experienced by most middle class white youngsters. OK mystery cleared up - thanks again Ann
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Callie, a glorious photograph - and a glorious place, isn't it? My husband played in a Softball tournament in Ontario at Niagra Falls. We stayed in a motel with the rest of the team...supposedly with a view, but the gorge in front was so deep, we had no view. When the tournament was over, Bruce surprised me with a night in the Radisson Hotel which had a "glorious" view of the falls. I don't remember the light that you and Heat-Moon saw but do remember rainbows...more than one.
nlhome is right, the pace is quicker as he goes through the Great Lakes area and the New England states too. Is it because he finds less opportunities for conversation - or because he is in a hurry to reach home. The conversations he does have are revealing though- they tie in to the changing landscape as he notes the disappearance of the old homesteads and ways.
I took particular notice of Pete Marvin/Pierangelo Masucci, his wife and especially his mother, Filomena, Fanny - as well as old friend Scott Chisholm (of Ojibiway and Scottish descent) and his family. The fact that Heat Moon already knew Scott meant they spoke more freely to one another, don't you think?
"You learn what you want to do." Can a self-made man still make it on the land today?
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"Since I am trying to follow LMH in my atlas, I must say that I haven't been able to find Chesire or Canandaigua Lake" Callie
Just by coincidence - before reading this, Callie, I was watching this Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (3hours) (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon) in which he revealed that when he was writing Blue Highways, he envisioned the reader sitting in a chair, with a dictionary on one side, the Atlas on the other.
Barbara, it was your questions which had me searching for more on the author's background. As fun as it is reliving our old associations with the places he visits...I feel the book is turning into Heat-Moon's story - autobiographical...almost. Do you feel that way - or is it just me? He did not mean it that way! He says he wanted to write about OTHER PEOPLE.
When I found the Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (3hours) (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon) I got lost in it for the first 49 minutes and now have it paused. It is a really wonderful interview...I hope you are able to watch it.
Among the many subjects he talks about - his Native American heritage - "only a dollop of Osage Indian"...though he could not have written the book without drawing on his Osage background."
~ His motive for the trip - his life was in shambles, had doctorate, but no job, had built a house and got booted out, was "emotionally trampled down, withdrawn, egocentric...
~ He did think he might find stories when he went on the road - stories that he'd be able to sell. Had never considered a book till he got home...
Fry, in this interview he also talks about his River-Horse (http://www.amazon.com/River-Horse-Logbook-Boat-Across-America/dp/0140298606),- I know you are planning to read that in the near future.
As I said, I'm only 49 minutes into the interview and plan to watch to the end - see you back here tonight! I hope you consider watching it - at least some of it. It really is fascinating.
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Joan, I think seeing the morning light on the Falls was just a stroke of luck in that I just happened to be seated by the window while our tour group was having breakfast at the top of the hotel on the morning we left and crossed the bridge into New York.
(Do I get an award for the longest sentence in the discussion? ;D
Barb, having a Native American pen name would sell more books, too. <she said cynically>
A self-made man might be able to make it if he is willing to live a simpler existence and has a wife like Pete Marvin has!
When they moved to the vineyard country, SHE "lifted, climbed and held while Pete measured cut and drilled holes for HER to drive the nails home".
Then HE moved them to a chicken farm (more carpentry) and SHE worked along with him in a factory until HE couldn't stand it and THEY started farming full time. That didn't satisfy HIM - and now "WE play at farming". So, he says, ""...happy in retirement with garden, wild food, orchard - and "a grocery in the cellar with what (HIS WIFE) has put up." SHE also washed the barn insides every day, rides on the back of the tractor and says, "Where he go and work, I go."
SHE certainly did!!!!
I suspect she also did the laundry, the cooking and the housecleaning.
Hmmm....wonder if this attitude is what LMH unrealistically expected of the Cherokee?
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Wow, JoanP. I've bookmarked the interview for later. I'll see if I can find it on the BookTV link on my Roku. Otherwise, I will watch it on the computer later, or tomorrow.
Okay, so that is what I was wanting to know - if he had a book in mind at the beginning or took his writing materials and camera with him in case something came to mind. So he had an idea finding something, he didn't know what exactly, to write about that might bring in some income.
I am in Vermont right now. He is staying over for a few days. It amazes me that he told the cop in NY (?) he didn't want to stay at a motel, he lives in his van, but he gets to Vermont and spends money for a place there. I know he only started this trek with $300 and he made a few bucks on the Outer Banks helping load fish, but I am thinking he had access to more somewhere along the line. The gas and diner fare would have been gone by now I would think. But then, things were less expensive then, so $300 would have gone farther.
Cat has decided it is time to eat. (claws in knee, ouch! ouch!).
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I agree with you, Barb. He does seem rather self-absorbed, doesn't he? He focuses more on people than places & is always seeking conversation. He's lonely and seeks out companionship, yet the journey he chose to take was a solitary one. He seemed to seek out bars for conversation. I am surprised he didn't get into any bar fights. I have just finished north by northwest and am moving on.
Sally
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According to the inflation calculator - What cost $300 in 1972 would cost $1648.32 in 2013. Gas in 1972 was still $.36 so that today if gas had simply increased in value with inflation is should be $1.98 in 2013
His trip was 13,000 miles - from what I can find a Ford van in 1972 - we do not know how old - but using the Ford van 1971 it got 12-17 mpg. Lets say it gets 15 mpg - ;) the math is easier - that's 867 gallons using the $.36 He spent $312. on gas - coffee was still a nickle a cup however, he had some repairs on the van and back then photographs meant the cost of film and processing. The average income in 1972 was less then 10,000 a year $9,something. He may have just squeezed through if he earned another $220 so that he had a tad over $200 for food, van repair and incidentals.
Found a photo of a 1971 Ford Van - http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/CC-178-078-950.jpg
I can see why he did not want to stay in a motel in NY the cost would have been more than he could handle where as in Vermont it would probably be next to nothing. Wait found it in 1972 a Motel 8 cost $8.88
Whew JoanP 3 hours - Holy Hannah - I will attempt bits at a time however thanks for finding this - sounds like lots of answers explaining his viewpoint.
I wonder if this is the same interview - since we can read a lot faster than someone can speak I may be able to read this in far less then the 3 hours - http://artfuldodge.sites.wooster.edu/content/william-least-heat-moon
;) :o Callie I too was thinking cynical and trying to cover it with ahum 'innocent curiosity'... ah so... I think his New England work ethic is how he measured the Cherokee forgetting they were very successful farmers in the southeast before they were forced off their land where farming did not entail the hard scrubbed life of a New England farmer however, in the dry OK landscape they had very different land and weather challenges along with many other challenges.
I always admired how Cherokee villages were either a red or white village. The government and protection for anyone in a white village was predicated on peace where as a red village trained their young men for war. A medicine chief would resolve disputes between the Red Chief and White Chief should they disagree.
The idea that there were entire villages established for peaceful living within a culture that acknowledged a war like nature that is also accommodated is an amazing bit of social philosophy among those we considered an ignorant people. And yes, it all came to an end with Andrew Jackson wanted an end to the Indian wars among the Red Stick villages (war clubs painted red)and so with those Creeks and Cherokee supporting the US government a way of life was defeated in 1814.
From the written interview with Least Heat-Moon I get the impression searching for his native roots was not most important, that he was very impressed reading as a younger man Travels with Charley - He talks about loneliness - I think to me that was making a mountain out of a molehill but than, as a young wife and mother living far from my family I refused loneliness and filled my life. So the idea of giving into loneliness to me is just not living a very creative life with all there is to admire, and learn and see - In fact when I first felt so isolated I would rail how I was educated in the same way as guys who left their home each day for their work - no one prepared me for the isolation but, like most of us in the 1950s we took ourselves in hand and made our own life. And so justifying loneliness because another author of a travel book also spoke of loneliness hit me as wimpy. And no, Dime Box never became a tourist attraction as he imagined.
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Barbara, nice to know another....ummmm...skeptic? :D
Although I agree with you that the tribes who were "removed" from their ancestral homes to what became Oklahoma had many hardships and challenges, I must respectfully disagree with your comment that , in the dry OK landscape (the Cherokee) had very different land and weather challenges
The Cherokee Nation is in the northeastern corner of Oklahoma, which is very similar to their former home. This area is known as Green Country and this is the geographic description from that web site: Tumbling rivers, expansive lakes, tallgrass prairie and rolling green hills are the hallmarks of this lush region, rich in culture and verdant grandeur.
For a glimpse of early Cherokee life in Oklahoma, browse through the Adams Corner links in this website: http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/attractions/general-store/ (http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/attractions/general-store/)
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Thanks Callie - reminds me of Arkansas Ouachita area where I have been - both are similar to the Cherokee National Forest except the Smoky Mountains are the neighbors to the Cherokee National Forest - I am thinking of the many who when they arrived in OK were hoodwinked out of their land and there are many that ended up in the dryer part of the state that did not and does not seem to exist where they came from. All in all there was a great change to the culture and I was not seeing that Least Heat-Moon spoke to those changes to understand better the Cherokee in OK.
I guess we all do it - see life through our eyes based on what we have learned during our lifetime - As a professor and a writer who does as much research as he explained in the written interview and having been married to a lady from the Cherokee nation I was looking for more. More understanding and more in-depth views and more references to the Cherokee culture and mostly, more passionate interest but then he is really not researching his native American roots so I bet he made sure his book showed an evenness of curiosity as he described each encounter.
Aha that is it - he describes and has great encounters, he is curious and what I like to see is someone who is passionate about their curiosities and encounters. Come to think of it he really speaks to what he considers the quirkiness within his various encounters. But then there is this dang overlay of depression that according to the interview he seems to think is loneliness - gads I would not want to be in his skin.
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Ha! You had me going there for a minute, Barb! If that's what LHM's Econoline van looked like, I can see why he might have come across as an aging hippie!
(http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/CC-178-078-950.jpg)
Moon's was a 1975 Econoline - three years old in 1978- with worn tires and a faulty water pump. I'm not sure of the paint job - but that was definitely not the same van! :D
Here's the Interior of Ghost Dancing interior - note the boy scout locker (http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/minigalleries/bluehiways/whole.shtml)
- (http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/publishImages/Gallery-3~~element51~~578.jpg)
(http://www.bluehighwaysrevisited.net/get-attachment5_aspx.jpg)
Heat-Moon and his dad
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Definitely not the same interview, Barb. There is much more of what was on Heat-Moon's frame of mind when he wrote Blue Highways in the recent Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon), Really, you don't need to watch him for three hours...In the first 45 minutes he describes his his frame of mind when he left MO. He's more than lonely on this trip - very depressed as some of you have noted. His life he tells, was "in shambles," he was "emotionally trampled down," "withdrawn, egocentric"...
I put the link in the heading so you can take a look when time permits.
He is very forthcoming in this interview -could be he's had more time to think about it since the actual trip?
Though he still hasn't much to say about his wife...except that the marriage had fallen apart - was in shambles. It occurred to me that he might have had an agreement with her not to go into their relationship - and that might explain why he didn't include more references to her Cherokee background in this book. He does say she was of mixed blood. In the interview he tells how he sent the prepublication copies of the book to all of those interviewed, giving them the opportunity to edit what he had written. He may have done the same with the Cherokee...He does say she was stunningly beautiful... :D
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"He does seem rather self-absorbed, doesn't he? He focuses more on people than places & is always seeking conversation.
Sally, yes, I noticed the same thing in the beginning and through much of the trip --and in the interview too that LHM refers to himself as "egocentric" when he starts the trip. Actually, I think the fact that he is seeking conversation while in this depressed state - is a good thing? He seems to be listening to others, not looking for solace, but rather a reaching out to others. He could have used his old friend, Scott Chisholm as a sounding board...dwelt on his problems. Instead, he asked not to be entertained but worked his rear end off helping to build that 20 foot rock wall - in a day! My neighbors had a stone wall put across the front yard...took the guy nearly a month to do it!
All along, he seems dismayed by what has become of the land, once the white man has introduced "civilization." That would be enough to depress anyone. And the trip is almost over! But there's something in these last chapters through the New England towns - where I sense the possibility, the hope, that all change isn't bad. Which lake was it...where the homes were built, strung out, blocking beach access to the public...whereas on the opposite shore, the homes were clustered in towns, leaving the beach free to others. Change can be a good thing if people work together - and are considerate of one another. The possibility of good change seems to be introduced when people consider more than themselves. Are you noticing that? Maybe he will take this to heart?
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I read the print interview link last night. Here's what he had to say about population centers:
DB: Do you feel there are too many people clogging up the Blue Highwaysnow, trying to imitate you?
Least Heat-Moon: No, not at all. They're still largely empty of traffic, but the thing that disturbs me about them is the sprawling out of America everywhere along them. I fear our notion that we can build wherever we want. I really wish that, as we move into the countryside, we would consider clustering much more than we do. Let's not string out along the roads. Let's cluster in pockets.
DB: That does run counter, though, to the very American feeling of, as Daniel Boone said, "I want to move where I don't see the smoke from my neighbor's chimney."
Least Heat-Moon: I am a living contradiction in terms. My values will not meet there. I'm a hypocrite in that what I want for others is not what I want for myself. But just face it, that's the way it is. I want everybody else to cluster, but I want to be free to take off by myself. Nasty man.
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hahaha, Callie. I love your comment.
Least Heat-Moon: No, not at all. They're still largely empty of traffic, but the thing that disturbs me about them is the sprawling out of America everywhere along them. I fear our notion that we can build wherever we want. I really wish that, as we move into the countryside, we would consider clustering much more than we do. Let's not string out along the roads. Let's cluster in pockets.
DB: That does run counter, though, to the very American feeling of, as Daniel Boone said, "I want to move where I don't see the smoke from my neighbor's chimney."
Least Heat-Moon: I am a living contradiction in terms. My values will not meet there. I'm a hypocrite in that what I want for others is not what I want for myself. But just face it, that's the way it is. I want everybody else to cluster, but I want to be free to take off by myself. Nasty man.
That's the first thing I noticed when I went to Europe, the clustering of houses making a city, I thought it was to free up the land for farming. Why do people cluster in cities, anyway?
It's not about what HE wants, is it? The people have the same freedom he does, to do as they wish.
And what an interesting statement, Pearson, about his method of communication, too and what he might be looking for. Maybe he's one of these people who looks to tell YOU what he thinks, and doesn't actually take in the listening part at all. If that's the case why has he written down the conversations, to hope to find meaning?
I think the "conversations" he has are very interesting.
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Ginny...we've been looking down (up) the road for you... Hoping to hear your thoughts on Heat-Moon's conversation with Pete Marvin(Masucci)...his farm, his vineyard...
I saw his comments on clustering, as meaning the growing population was going to have make sacrifices, live closer together in clusters, in order to preserve open land. At the same time, as Callie just pointed out, he admits that the individual is less inclined to do this, the natural inclination is to spread out. It would take a group effort to realize that we're running out of real estate... Change is possible, but is it likely to happen?
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A factor not spoken to by the author, once west of the Mississippi water is a huge factor and in order to have enough from a well to serve a household, at least in our area west of Austin, you need an acre or more of land. The expense of land for a house is a factor that since WWII meant a significant house to warrant the best use for the land.
It was only in the twentieth century we had a national effort to dam up large rivers in order to control and channel water which allowed homes to be built in clusters creating a community but breaking that mind set of a hundred years of spreading out had been in the culture - I find as an agent it is only in the last 10 years that the typical young homebuyer is not having that discussion that often was heated about a house on 5 or at least 2 acres versus, the wife wanting to be in a subdivision. And now if folks want to move to areas within driving distance but out of town they must be able to afford at least a $400,000 house because there is no municipal water. Lenders use a ratio of land value to required house value.
If this is true here in the Austin area I cannot imagine we are the only place that lack of water is an issue and that is probably the explanation for our emotional attachment to build spread out - even back east I bet there were many homes on wells and only those communities that found a way to collect water to service a town were able to cluster buildings.
Now that would be interesting to find out the first towns that had municipal water and how they did it - was it collected - I know there are lakes that are reservoirs - did they first start by piping water from a lake - were all towns served by a reservoir - I know here we have many a town with a water tower that is water stored from a combo well and rain. And I learned when hiking in Mexico that families settled first on rivers because it is a source of water so that if you are lost always look for and follow a stream or river.
We really cannot just organize where folks live without looking at how and the expense to providing them with water and in many parts of the west electricity was not strung into rural areas till the 1930s but folks can get along successfully without electricity but they must have water. I would want more information about the age of those houses strung out on the beach versus the age of the town across the lake and how they supply water to both sets of houses - I am not ready to buy into the idea that the houses were built with the intent to block the beach from public use - it could be but I would want more information before making that conclusion.
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ah so a very respectable looking Van JoanP - I thought this was taking place a bit earlier in the 70s - but again his Boy Scout roots pop up - maybe we should be considering how the Boy Scouts in the 60s and 70s described Native Americans to get a handle on his association with his heritage ;) And what is all this with facial hair - not exactly the look of a fellow with his sur name ::)
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I thought it was interesting that Heat Moon said, somewhere, that his father called him Least Heat Moon from the time he was a Boy Scout...and the photo on his trunk is labelled Bill Trogdon, Barb. Let us know what you find if you decide to research the Boy Scouts...
photo of trunk - bottom right (http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/minigalleries/bluehiways/whole.shtml)
Meanwhile, back on the road - Heat-Moon is really good about thinking of questions to total strangers that will lead him right into the living rooms of the most knowledgable people in town - He stopped for a grinder at a snack bar in Melvin Village, New Hampshire. He probably knew most people in the village wouldn't know where the name came from. "Who is Melvin?" This question took him right to the home of 80 year old Marion Horner Robie, the town's "biggest cheese" who can answer any question about life in this village. Do you remember what she told him about change here over the years?
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
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Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eastward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest)
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-31(North by Northwest)
Part EIGHT ~ April 1-3 (North by Northeast) ~ NY, VT, NH
Part Nine ~ April 4- 9 (East by Northeast) ~ Maine, Mass., Rhode Island, Conn, NY, NJ., Del.,MD
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
Recent Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
April 4- 9 (East by Northeast) ~ Maine, Mass., Rhode Island, Conn, NY, NJ., Del.,Maryland
1. What does Heat-Moon mean when he says that TIME is not the traveler's 4th dimension on the road, CHANGE is? Do you see CHANGE as the theme from here on out? Has Kennebunkport changed in a good way over time?
2. What did Heat-Moon learn about the fish we eat while aboard the Allison E? Does he view all change bad, new regulations in the fishing industry, for example?
3. "Taking blue highways down the Northeast seaboard is not difficult, it's impossible." US 1, which followed Indian trails...now "four lanes of American lust for hideous ugliness." Does Heat-Moon view all modern development hideous and depressing?
4. How has Thames St. In Newport, RI changed since Heat-Moon's Navy days 15 years ago? What does he think of the "redevelopment for urban blight" - and what has become of his old navy base?
5. Are you familiar with the Pine Barrens of New Jersey? Why did the waitress in the diner warn him to avoid these parts in "the Middle" of the state?
6. Do you share the optimism of Roberts Roemer of Othello NJ - that man can change his future by changing his "angle of vision"? Do you think future development will grow from the past, not obliterate?
7. Delaware - breakfast at Rehobeth Beach, through Ocean City, to the Eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay and Alice Venable Middleton of Smith Island, Maryland. Did you think Heat Moon found their conversations depressing or did they leave him with some hope for the future?
8. "By seeing the futility in trying to relive the old life and the danger in trying to obliterate it, man can gain the capacity to make anew... His very form depends not on repetition, but upon variation from old patterns. It necessitates turning away from replication." Is Heat-Moon talking about himself with these conclusions?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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Hoping to hear your thoughts on Heat-Moon's conversation with Pete Marvin(Masucci)...his farm, his vineyard...
I thought it was very interesting, in fact this entire section is interesting, even down to what he told the Canadian Customs was it, when asked his purpose: "Passing."
The story of Pete and Pauline and Filomena is romantic, isn't it? It's almost like a novel. I'm glad he put them in his book. I thought Pete's thoughts on vineyards, chickens, and the dairy cows were accurate, and it's a shame really, because in that area that's a lot of land. I remember in New Jersey, the farm market was a big thing. Fresh eggs! Fresh vegetables! A real live FARMER! And here these people are living it but can't sell it for this or that reason. I found it to be true. "Go big or go home" is right.
All over Italy, at least wherever I've gone by train in the last 25 years, from the top of the country to almost Sicily, the Italians have at least a couple of vines and a garden outside their homes, no matter where the home is, or how big it is, whatever. . I was somewhat shocked when, in going to the Villa Arianna, to find an entire sort of mini farm behind row houses in a city. There were pigs and chickens, trees and a small patch of garden and of course grapes, always a couple of grape vines. It sounds so romantic, but as he found, it's very hard to make a profit.
I thought what he was saying was true. He does have a lot of "s---- on XXX" expressions but he's tried a lot of things.
(What, by the way, is cardoon?)
I also marveled at the stone wall, they laid 20 feet. In one day. I loved the idea that the stones were a test of friendship (or character) and that they had an urging in the rocks to be put in just so....as if they were alive.
I have to wonder, skeptic that I am, how that wall held out. I haven't gotten to that in the Revisited book yet. I would suspect it did not, for some reason.
I loved the bit about "It was hot and tent caterpillars warmed the ground like the Chinese army and bees hummed in the horse chestnut blossoms."
I love that picture; that's good writing. Those magnificent old horse chestnuts, also gone, pretty much. I remember them from Pennsylvania, they were unbelievable.
This is a nice section full of surprising people. I am not sure why I am enjoying it as I am, but it seems somehow more familiar than the western bars and sections. But then again, it would.
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Actually I DID just this minute find the stone wall on page 209 of the Revisited book. Of course I have no idea what it looked like then. It appears to have done some sliding which I think would be expected. Not sure where the actual "wall" is, but it's a slope of stones, right enough.
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Ginny I think cardoon has to do with part of an artichokes - never saw artichoke growing - Have you? I did not know they grew so far north - I always thought of artichoke as coming from Southern California.
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Barb, there's a globe artichoke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artichoke), and a jerusalem artichoke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_artichoke). Maybe he means a different kind.
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Aha we have always called the one that looks like a daisy Sunchoke and it is the tuber that grows underground that we eat. I never associated it with an artichoke and yet, the name ends the same - interesting how we learn things - my friend has steamed the globe artichoke and she showed me how to dip the ends in melted butter - maybe I thought it grew only in California because that is where she lived for many years.
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Glad you asked what a cardoon is Ginny; I wanted to look it up, but forgot.
Pix: https://www.google.com/search?q=cardoon&client=firefox-a&hs=Upi&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-I8-U5uYL-rfsATk84GwBg&ved=0CKYBEIke&biw=1167&bih=673&dpr=1
It belongs to the artichoke family, but looks more like a thistle.
I think the whole section is interesting (don't forget to stop for some Maple Syruping). And the next section is interesting too. I just hitched a ride on a fishing boat. The description reminds me of Deadliest Catch and Dana Stabenow's descriptions of the fishing and crabbing industry in Alaska.
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Fry, I'm looking forward to the next section too. The east coast is my stomping ground, and I'm finding so many familiar sights here...and some that I was not aware of too. - Like the huge tract of land - the Pine Barrens in New Jersey! (I grew up in New Jersey! How did I miss that?)
Before we pull out of New Hampshire, though, I'd like to pick your memories to be sure I understood what bits of wisdom Heath-Moon picked up from Mrs. Robie, her elderly friend and her cousin, the maple syrup man in Melvin Village. Don't you get the feeling that he's storing their stories in the back of his mind (or on his tape recorder) to help him make sense of his life once he gets back to Missouri?
His excuse for visiting Miss Robie was to learn who Melvin was. But he was attempting to learn more about the village...and the people who lived there...the oldtimers especially - and what they thought of the changes that have taken place in their quiet little village. I really didn't expect what they had to say...wonder if you were too?
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Interesting, Frybabe. I'd never heard of a cardoon. And, of course, an artichoke is a member of the thistle family.
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Maryz - you are all reminding me of what Heat-Moon said in one of his interviews... as he was writing this book, he pictured the reader sitting in a chair with an Atlas on one hand...and a dictionary on the other. I'll bet "cardoon" was one of the words he thought we'd look up -BUT I'll bet he didn't think we'd all be sitting at the computer looking up the words and finding pictures of artichokes - cardoons. ;)
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Well, I have finished the book and listened to the 3hr interview and liked both. Although, I began to find LHM rather boring in parts of the interview. I do believe that although he didn't describe clearly about his "breakdown" in the book, he really became clearer about it in the interview. Also, one of his callers had seen the monk from Conyers,GA out in New Mexico and spoken with him (just two weeks ago, the man said). In "Revisited" that's where that author found him.
LHM tells Connie??????, that his wife who is Catholic asked him one night as they sat on their deck outside how he could get along without going to church. He responded by gazing over the countryside and saying that nature was his religion. I would add that people and their interesting lives are his religion also.
So, he has written 4 books and is considering writing a novel. Says he has the story to tell. One that he made up! Since the interview is from 2005 0r 2007, maybe we should be looking for his novel.
We love to add an artichoke to our meals now and then. They are easy to prepare and one puts out small dishes of melted butter and sour cream for dipping. Hmmmmm, good! I seem to remember a whole area of California just south of San Francisco, down past silicon valley lies.
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I was up 'til 5am this morning finishing our f2f book, "Still Alice". I did like the way it ended immensely. So, now I know that any one can be tested for the gene of alszimers.
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Well, it doesn't look like a novel has materialized yet. His Last two books, published last year I believe, are. Here, There, Elsewhere: Stories from the Road and An Osage Journey to Europe 1827-1830: Three French Accounts.
I went looking for a website page or blog, but only came up with a Facebook page where a note says that an administrator gets all the comments and then passes them on to LHM. He supposedly reads everyone. My impression of him along the way is that he is a rather private type of person about himself. It appears that he remains so, even though he does do interviews and book signings. On the other hand, continuing with the theme of old ways of doing things passing, perhaps he is one of those writers (there are still a few around) who doesn't like to use computers.
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When he is being interviewed he says that he hand writes several versions of what he wants to tell and then uses his computer to write the best one and send it to his editor.
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I appreciate all that information on the "cardoon, " I had no idea!
Funny on how local things are pronounced, I love the discussion in the book on how Chichester and Puget Sound are pronounced. Love the Indian names of the towns he mentions.
I remember being in a class once here in SC and the professor asked if there were anybody from PA in the class and he was delighted. He said he'd always wanted to know how Schuylkill was pronounced. It looked so poetic to him and he had wondered, (this was before the Internet) and he had tried out several different iterations of it.
Since I was born in Philadelphia, I naturally know how it's pronounced, but he didn't believe me! hahahaha And he was disappointed at the harsh sound of it. He was a lovely man, one of the best teachers I ever had.
That's a good chapter in this book, too, Section 6 page 364 in the paperback.
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A quote from LHM: I love his description of the people he meets.
Eating in a restaurant called Pat's, he said of his waitress. She wore threads of wrinkles like Chantilly lace over her forehead and spoke her English in, rounded Cajun measures. As she cleared the table, she says, "Did they eat lovely like mortal sin?" and winked a lacy eyelid.
She also tells him that the Cajun population is dying out. "Us, we're the last. But, when I was a girl on our schoolyard when they open the day with raisin' Old Glory, we sing the Marseillaise--we thought it was America's song
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He does have a way with words...with very few words, provides a picture of a woman I'd recognize if I ran into her in any Jersey diner ...or even if I didn't, I recognize her
"The waitress, with a grudge of a face and a golden chain cutting into a puffy ankle, complained her way around."
Oops! - forgot the rest of the paragraph...and it's important -
"The waitress, with a grudge of a face and a golden chain cutting into a puffy ankle, complained her way around. Everyone seemed to like her, although she had no good tidings for anybody."
Concerned that LHM looked as if he hadn't slept that night, really concerned that he intended to drive into "the Middle." of the state. How many times do I hear that when I tell people I grew up in New Jersey. There is no Middle. It all looks like the Jersey Turnpike or the Jersey shore.
"You're a nice boy. Go to Atlantic City. But for godsakes, don't go to no middle." The Pineys breed like flies in there. Live like animals."
Heat-Moon writes - "It was almost an axiom that anyone who lived off the main highway was an animal that bred like flies."
Of course he went anyway. I don't know how I ever missed the Pine Barrens - - its size equal to the Grand Canyon National Park! But I did.
I wonder what this area is like today - or thirty years later is it described in Blue Highways revisited?
The place I really intend to get to is Ye Greate Street in Othello and Greenwich! Today I'm going to try the google map...and see whether any of those old houses can be seen - are still standing.
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When we flew one of our nieces back to NJ in the 70', we were surprised at the trees in the northern part of the state. And I have a neighbor who moved here from NJ and he also commented on the forest in northern NJ. My brother who lived in Cherry Hill had much to say about the great hiking in the forest in the southern part of NJ. So, where were you living??
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I had to check the book in yesterday - and discovered that "Blue Highways Revisited" may no longer even be in the system. Since it wasn't on the shelf in my branch - although the catalog had said it was - and wasn't in the "to be shelved" area,
two librarians were busily trying to find out why when I left.
I'll enjoy reading other comments and hope I took enough notes to remember a few details.
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I just started another Louise Penny book today. "How The Light Gets In" with Inspector Gamache.
I read the "The Beautiful Mystery" by Penny last month. Its a very good mystery about an abbey out in the middle of nowhere and where a murder has occurred. The description the abbey and monks matches the one in the Trappist abbey in Conyers, GA and LMH's visit. His monks sang in Plainsong and in Penny's book, they sang Gregorian chant. In fact the Gregorian chant and someone's huge ego brings the case to a close. Faced each other in the church the same. Tried to remain silent.
Thomas Merton was a Trappist monk. Remember Seven Story Mountain??
"Revisited" is just a real pleasure to read and see the wonderful places in living color that LHM saw in 1978. Hope your library finds that book, Callie.
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I just checked the on-line catalog and it now indicates that my library's copy of "Blue Highways Revisited" is loaned. However, two other branches have copies - supposedly "on the shelf" - so I've put a reserve on it.
It may have been checked out from my branch earlier in the day I went to look for it.
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One of my favorite...no, probably my very favorite character Heat-Moon met on the route was Miz Alice Venable Middleton out on Smith Island, MD Unfortunately she passed away even before Blue Highways was published - so of course the Ailors weren't able to retrace Heat-Moon's time with her. But did they return to Smith Island? Did they go to any of the small towns on the East Coast - or the big ones?
Heat-Moon practically flew down the coast from Maine to Maryland, didn't he? Was it because those states are so close together? So many tourists in those towns, starting with Kennebunkport. He didn't have much opportunity to talk to the "natives" - those who knew the history of the towns and could talk about the changes they had experienced in their lifetime. Maybe he encountered the tourists because he visited the coastal towns where tourists came to vacation.
I liked it better when he went to the Middle where the tourists feared to tread. I'll bet the Ailors in Blue Highways Revisited found Greenwich/Othello NJ much the same as it was thirty years ago - especially since so many of the houses were designated Historical Landmarks. I did try to follow Ye Grande Street between Greenwich and Othello on the Google Map, Callie You're right - it was time-consuming, but I was able to see quite a few of the old homes from the road.
I also found this Historic Greenwich website (http://www.historicgreenwichnj.org/). It doesn't look like much -not a place newcomers would seek out and then change the villages to suit their needs, does it?
Annie - I guess you'd say my town of Cranford in Union County NJ was - "in the Middle," though only 40 minutes from NYC, (a small town - with trees!) - a place with a sense of community - where people knew who you were...where the librarian would collar you as you were checking out and scold you because your brother's books were overdue!
Cranford, NJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cranford_twp_nj_039.png)
In my experience the rapid growth and development really occurred in the beach towns - Ocean City, MD, the Outer Banks. It's difficult to find natives when we vacation in the Outer Banks now. I've often thought it would be quite an experience to spend a winter there - when all the tourists are gone.
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I believe LHM mentioned that he was surprised at how fast he went down the coast. I didn't realize that Long Island is bigger than Rhode Island, something I will check on. LHM was disappointed that his old Navy haunts had disappeared, not only the hangouts, but the yard as well. Typical government, the paint was barely dried on the new, high bridge that allowed for the carriers when the carrier base was reassigned elsewhere. I don't think I came across as many comments about being lonely or angry or depressed on this leg, just some disappointment that "progress" bulldozed over old and in some cases, historic places.
I am just coming up on the Pine Barrens now. I knew it existed, but didn't know where it was.
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Yup, Long Island is larger. In fact it is the largest island in the US at 1,401 square miles. Rhode Island is 1,214 square miles.
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Didn't Heat-Moon say he thought Long Island should be a state, Fry? My sister lives there...I'll see what the Islanders think. :D
A recurring theme seems to be: nothing is the same as it was in the past. To change is necessary for survival - But, the past cannot not be completely obliterated either. The present is built on the past, the future is being built right now on the present.
Sure, LHM was disappointed that his old haunts had disappeared - and the navy yard too..but the navy presence lives on in Newport -
Naval Station Newport,RI (https://www.facebook.com/NAVSTANewport)
A neighbor, a navy man was about to retire from the Navy...really looking forward to it. He wanted to be a handyman...loved to fix things. A great neighbor to have, right?
Something happened to those plans along the way...he was named Admiral and sent to command the War College in Newport!
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Backing up the coast to Kennebunkport,ME for a moment... - had to laugh at Heat-Moon's description of this quaint and picturesque old shipbuilding, fishing town. The whole thing had me laughing. This was 1978, right? You really can't blame the touristy changes on George Bush, can you? :D
I thought the coffee mug souvenirs with the "Made in Japan" stickers was funny. I wonder if Ed Ailor checked those mugs 30 years later when he went through. Where do you guess they came from? Why the change?
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I have been on my own road trip of sorts this week, so have not been able to read the discussion for several days.
I think part of the speed of travel in the north and east is the congestion: more people, and even in less populated areas, still people and towns are closer together than out in south west and south. Also, at least to me, people in the south just don't move as quickly as in the north and east. The pace is less hurried. So I had the sense that his travels adjusted to the pace.
I had to laugh about the cardoons. When we lived in southern California back in the early 70's, we had artichokes in our yard but didn't know what they were so considered them ornamentals along with the bird of paradise plants. Years later we realized what we had wasted.
Right now we are in Georgia and planning our trip home with an eye to the weather and a hope to take more time and avoid the interstates. Our trip south was on limited time. We bought a new road atlas so we could get a more complete picture of our route and now we'd like to see some of those towns we missed on the way down. Like many of those in the book, the names of the towns intrigue us.
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Stop in Chattanooga on your way north, nlhome. The rain is supposed to continue through tomorrow morning, and keep moving north. Maybe you can slow down enough that you don't catch up to it.
I'm sure you could get in touch with Steph via e-mail, but I'll keep you posted with any information I get.
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Not sure where everyone is - last night I went from Philly to Greenwich Delaware - just fascinated with the story and the community activism Roemer, a withit kind of guy explained, who was a part of a controversy, how best to use and preserve the town's history -
I think as you say nilhome, the speed of the activity and large population of the Northeast kept him moving. Where Delaware is on the cusp and has the slower pace of some of the "middle" not only the Middles of NJ but the middle of the Northeast. Even in this more southern culture of Delaware there is still a crispness and let's-get-things-done-Now along with what comes across as an attitude that there are marching bands behind everyone's ears. I think this pace is also good for him - taking a swim in an isolated river/stream may be lovely, poetic, however, he wrote the story of Greenwich and the nearby shore as confidently as Robert Roemer explained it and spoke with the command of himself that I saw in the photo - that association seemed to affect Least Heat-Moon so that during that section he was not whinny.
Loved Bob Roemer's outpouring on change, fee will, and I laughed outloud at his bottom line using Tertullian and the absurdity that finally settled for awhile the controversy if Jesus was man or God or both - not settled till the split between the east and west however, for 100s of years the determination pushed from Rome was that Jesus is both God and man, because, according to Tertullian it was too absurd not to be believed -
I did not know the Quakers were/are about property and preserving - during the early settlements buying land from the Indians - then it appears we have the Presbyterians to thank for being a leader in setting up free schools. I know here in Austin we have the German's to thank for the same free school approach - interesting couple of units or chapters.
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Barb - you're right. I don't see him whining...complaining about how lonely he is...haven't seen it for some time now. Sometimes he's irritable when he doesn't find things the way he expected them...but there's a difference between that sort of complaining.
When I read about Roberts Roemer, I thought back to those tombstones he was reading with his lunch in Holliston Mass. (Cemeteries seem to be a favorite stopping place) ...One stood out - that of a Minuteman who died in 1757:
"As you are, now so once was I.
Prepare for death and follow me."
After reading this, Heat-Moon comments that he is not ready to die...and states "the rule of the blue road: the highway side to where you've been is better marked than the one to where you're going
..."
Hmm...I lost my point - oh, was thinking of Rob Roemer... an optimist, an activist, a believer in change, as you pointed out. Back in the cemetery, Heat-Moon cited Henry Miller: "Our destination is never a place, but rather a new way of looking at things."
We've seen Roemer's way ...Do you see changes in Heat-Moon's way of looking at things? His angle of vision shifting a bit?
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New Atlas! Small towns! Good for you, nlhome - avoid those Interstates if you really want to see the country! Couldn't agree with you more about the congestion in the towns and cities of the Northeast...and the brisk pace too. You've got to get off the Interstates~
My DIL grew up in Lewes, Delaware - a small village on the Chesapeake, not too far from Rehobeth, on the Atlantic. There's a ferry you can ride across to Cape May, New Jersey...another great place to spend time, to vacation. But you've got to get off the highways to find these places!
Maryz...that welcome mat is inviting!
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Any time, JoanP (assuming we're in town, of course ::) ).
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I am thinking about the comment (was it Alice Venable Middleton or Roberts Roemer?) about building the future upon the past rather then destroying the past and building the future over it. We see through history man's efforts to destroy the past to build over it rather that using the past as a building block - prime example in modern times was Mao Tse-tung and the revolution that sought to obliterate thousands of years of history. It worked in some ways to modernize society, but in the end the people are looking back and reconnecting with their glorious past. The Incas and Aztecs, I don't think, were as lucky.
Finished the book last night. He really sped past the states on his leg West and towards home. LHM seems to have finally come to peace with himself and is ready to begin anew.
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I'm so excited to talk about Heat-Moon's time on Smith Island with Alice Venable Middleton - thought their meeting was climactic in a way. This woman seems to have made the strongest impression on him - clarified his thinking on the importance of the past on the present, the present on the future...as you noted, Fry, building the future upon the past, rather than destroying the past to build over it.
I remember thinking as I read about her, he could have ended the book right there, as far as I was concerned.
In one of his interviews he spoke of Alice and her importance to him...also said he had apologized to her for the photo he used in the book. Said he had taken several pictures of her...in which she was smiling. Should have used one of them in hindsight, but at the time, thought the one he selected best described her grit and determination. (I'll have to check that interview to be sure these were the exact words he used.)
Edit - checked the interview - the exact words he used to describe Alice - "indomitable" - "could stand up to anyone." He added that she was none too happy with the one he selected, with good reason. "She was not a scowling type of person. This was one choice he would have liked to take back. (He mailed her the smiling pictures.)
Have you ever heard of Smith Island, MD? I would love it if you all would motor through the island again - the Alice chapter - Part Nine, Chapter 14, so we might focus together on the impact of this amazing woman! Many words of wisdom here - perhaps the reason he was able to arrive home in peace, Fry
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He missed a good part of Indiana and focused on the Harmony story which was interesting piece of history. But, he missed another monastery experience in southern Indiana which would have been interesting to compare. Forget the name of it.
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AdoAnnie, two of our daughters go to knitting/weaving/fiber weekends several times a year at a southern Indiana monastery. I don't know the name, either, but I'll bet it's the same place.
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I think the name of the monastery you might be speaking of is St Meinrads Monastery run by the Benedictine Monks. Link:http://www.saintmeinrad.edu/the-monastery/history/ (http://www.saintmeinrad.edu/the-monastery/history/)
But, there is also a Sisters of Providence property in that same area. Its named St Mary of the Woods and has an interesting history. So, maybe your daughters might go there? Another
link:http://spsmw.org (http://spsmw.org)
link to their church:http://spsmw.org/providence-center/attractions/church-of-the-immaculate-conception/ (http://spsmw.org/providence-center/attractions/church-of-the-immaculate-conception/)
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I think you're right AdoAnnie - it's probably the St. Mary of the Woods place. They love going there.
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Can't let this discussion come to an end without spending some time on Heat-Moon's time with Alice Middleton. They were important to the author, providing him with the clarity he needed for the return trip home.
What was it about Alice that so impressed the author?
~ She was an octogenarian, who "made life something you don't want to miss."
~ She was an educator in the true sense of the word:
"Learning rules is not an education."
"Only place to get an education - the school of thought."
"Education is thinking and thinking is looking for yourself and seeing what's there."
~ She lived her whole life on Smith Island, but never felt limited - thought of the island as "land surrounded by water."
~ Recognizes the hardest thing about living on the island is "having the gumption to live different and the sense to let everybody else live different."
For me, the difficult part was when the two walked to the end of the island to realize that there was no place, but on the island to discard all of the junk, the broken appliances, etc.. There are no repair shops on the island. No place else to discard. "This was the end of the assembly line."
Alice tells Heat Moon there is not enough space to hide junk. "Get used to living beside trash," she told him - "it's the way of things."
So what is it that Least Heat-Moon learned from this remarkable woman living beside trash on Smith Island?
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Heat-Moon wastes no time visiting the sights, or even talking to people as he travels westward towards home, Annie. How did you understand that? Once he left Miz Alice in Smith Island, his need to be on the road seems to have diminished. Why the rush to get home? No more need for quiet reflection in a monastery or retreat house? Desire to organize all the material and recordings of the places he's been, the people he's met - before he forgets the insights he has acquired on the road? Has he decided yet to get working on a book?
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
March Book Club Online
Blue Highways - a Journey into America
by William Least Heat-Moon
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluecover.jpg) |
This should be FUN! Whether you decide to read and discuss William Least Heat-Moon's classic 1978 travel account or share your own memories of the "blue highways" of America, you will probably leave winter doldrums behind - in your driveway. Heat-Moon coined the term to refer to small, forgotten, out-of-the-way roads connecting rural America (which were drawn in blue on the old style Rand McNally road atlas).
The book chronicles the author's 13,000-mile journey and the people he meets along the way, as he steers clear of cities and interstates, avoiding fast food and exploring local American culture. His book was on the NY Times’ best seller list for 42 weeks in 1982-83, and its title became a cultural code word for a journey of introspection and discovery.
Some questions we'll explore:
* What's left of the country stores and cafes on the old blue highways?
* Do you have photographs?
|
Discussion Schedule:
Part One ~ March 3-7 (Eaustward)
Part Two ~ March 8-11 (East by Southeast)
Part Three ~ March 12-13-14 (South by Southeast)
Part Four ~ March 15-16-17(South by Southwest)
Part Five ~ March 18-19-20(West by Southwest)
Part SIX ~ March 23-24-25-26(West by Northwest)
Part SEVEN ~ March 27-28-31(North by Northwest)
Part EIGHT ~ April 1-3 (North by Northeast)
Part Nine ~ April 4- 9 (East by Northeast)
Part TEN ~ April 10-14(Westward) ~ MD, VA, WVA,
OH, IN, Ill, MO
Relevant Links:
Least Heat Moon's route map (interactive) (http://littourati.squarespace.com/storage/moon-files/moon_map.htm)
Interview with Least Heat-Moon "Be a Traveller, not a Tourist" (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/travel/a-conversation-between-philip-caputo-and-william-least-heat-moon.html?_r=1&)
Recent Interview with William Heat-Moon on Book TV (http://www.c-span.org/video/?187711-1/depth-william-least-heatmoon)
QUOTES noted from Blue Highways (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluehighwaysquotes.html)
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bluehighways/bluemap.gif) |
Some Topics for Discussion
April 10-14 (Westward) ~ Md, VA, WVA, OH, IN, Ill, MO
1. Least Heat-Moon wastes no time visiting the sights or even talking to people on the road, as he travels westward towards home. How did you understand that?
2. Do you remember the old full service gas stations? Does Heat-Moon's memory of Vern's Service Station of his youth indicate a nostalgic wish to return to the old ways of doing things?
3. Spotsylvania, VA, where the Battle of the Bloody Angle was fought in which 13,000 men were lost in savage combat in one square mile - why did Heat-Moon refer to this area as "the bluest of the back roads?" Does he believe this road will probably be traveled again? Has man learned the futility of war?
4. How did Heat-Moon sum up what he had accomplished in his season on the blue highways?
Does the expression, "moments of glimpsed clarity" pretty well describe his journey?
5. Has the question of his choice of a circular route been answered in the words of Black Elk?
6. Buckhannon, WVA, "beautiful country, despite hills clobbered with broken appliances and automobile fragments". Shades of Smith Island's repository of junk? What had he learned from Miz Alice about this very thing?
7. Sutton, WVA - "everything here nearing an end." Can you see where the Secretary of
State wrote Heat-Moon a letter of complaint after the book was published, banning him from ever returning to the state of West Virginia?
8. "I can't say I learned what I wanted to know, because I hadn't known what I wanted to know. But I did learn what I didn't know I wanted to know." Your thoughts on this?
Contact: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net)
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I wrote down some comments that LMH made after he left Smith Island and headed toward Annapolis. These probably aren't direct quotes:
After the storm on Tilghman Island: "Black Elk heard Great Voices in thunderstorms. I head Heyokas, who do things foolishly backwards.
"On his blue road, Black Elk heard voices from the clouds. I heard men who knew about stumbling because they had stumbled.
"Like any man of ordinary cut, I heard human voices that showed the power...to see again and revise the "Looking glass Syndrome". (Insight?)
"Ego - that excessive looking inward, had its way in the Indian Wars (his marriage) and now the old life with the Cherokee was lost. But what was not lost was the chance "to make over"...to remake is (a man's) potential, his hope.
(Acceptance?)
"By seeing the futility in trying to live the old life and the danger in trying to obliterate it, man can gain the capacity to make anew. His very form depends on variation from old patterns - not repetition".
To which I say....."AMEN!!!!"
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Callie, you take good notes! I think you nailed it with these passages! He recognizes for the first time in the book that his marriage is over...one of the reasons he had started the journey? Escape? But there is now hope to reshape his future, to realize his potential by recognizing the reasons that marriage didn't work. Ego, excessive looking inward, preoccupation with himself.
Out of curiosity, I did a little research (a lot)- felt the need to know if he followed through with insights gained before he headed westward home-
First this:
http://www.nndb.com/people/668/000055503/
Father: Ralph G. Trogdon (lawyer)
Mother: Maurine Davis
Wife: Lezlie (div. 1978)
Wife: Linda Keown (teacher)
Then this undated interview with Heat-Moon and Hank Nuwer-
LEAST HEAT MOON: ... I met Miss Alice on Smith Island, Maryland, which is an island in the middle of Chesapeake Bay. The trip was virtually over by then. I was beginning to realize ever so faintly that what I was looking for in this angle of vision were the connections that hold a human being to a context greater than himself—connections that hold the present to the past and suggest that the present and past will be part of the future. In many ways she incisively put together connections for me in whatever we talked about. She felt that to miss the connections was simply to be blind, and all you had to do was open your eyes and see how the past prevailed in so many ways.
NUWER: You’re remarried now. When did you meet your wife, Linda?
LEAST HEAT MOON: I met her some time after I came back [from the trip] and married a couple of years ago.
Blue Highways publication date - 1982.
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I liken LHM's seeming rush to get home to how I feel when I get close to the end of a book. At some point I get in a hurry to know what happens at the end, resulting in a day (or night) of straight out reading until it is done.
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Fry, I know what you mean! When LHM left Smith Island and wrote:
"I met Miss Alice on Smith Island, Maryland, which is an island in the middle of Chesapeake Bay. The trip was virtually over by then."
- I knew that he had what he wanted from the trip! The rest was...confirmation! Let's spend a day or two with the final section, Ten - and hope that everyone comes together for a last campfire and maybe a smoked chub sandwich?
ps I checked...the Island Belle (http://www.totalmike.com/2011/05/smith-island-ferry-schedule-out-of.html) still takes you out to Smith Island...though Miss Alice won't be there to show you around...
(http://www.visitsmithisland.com/images/ferry.jpg)
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Joan: I think I mentioned a long time ago that I was reading a 1999 edition of "Blue Highways" that had added Author's Comments . I don't think anyone else said they had read the edition with this section.
In it, LMH tells what he did after he got home and what happened in his life up to 1983, when "Blue Highways" finally appeared in print.
You asked me not to comment until we had finished reading the book.
I made extensive notes about it, too. Please let me know if/when you would like for me to share them.
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Let's do it, Callie! We're heading home now. Can't think of a better time. I was worried for a minute...thought you were going to say you took that book back to the library. Relieved to remember you are a great notetaker!
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Callie, I had the same book but I have returned it along with "Still Alice" which my f2f group seemed to like.
You know, I am wondering if Ms Alice sort of wrapped up his trip around the states with her wonderful remark of: "When one lives on an island, one lives their own life and let the other folks on the island who do the same thing." A rough paraphrase on my part! :D
Something that I was reading a while back dealt with remembering we can't throw away the past and just try to live better because the past is why we are the person we are today.
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What happened next:
When LMH returned home "about the first day of summer", he went looking for a job that would allow him to turn the notes he took on the trip into a book.
Three and a half years later, he had had two jobs (one as a "drudge" in the county courthouse and then just a weekend job on the loading dock of the local newspaper) - and had written three unsatisfactory drafts of "Blue Highways".
Two months after he returned, he and the Cherokee "amicably parted" and he met someone else. "Although we too later went different ways, again amicably, she stood by me during those lean years and helped carry me and the book to the end. Yet one day, even she said...."It's too hard on me - please don't talk anymore about 'a certain forthcoming book'. It's not forthcoming."
However, the book was eventually accepted and was published by January, 1983. "By that time, I had rewritten it eight times and cut it from an 800 page manuscript to 500 pages."
That spring he felt secure enough to quit his job on the loading dock.
Then he thanks the readers for "accompanying" him on his journeys and says "...I can at last answer two questions that may have arisen as you read "Blue Highways."
"What did the people I met along the way, the ones I show in the book, think of it?
...I can tell you their responses were virtually one. Although they were hardly enchanted with my depiction of them,...they liked being a "character". To me, from the beginning, they were full of character in all its meaning and I regret that it's only now I realize I should have told them they were the best professors I ever knew, for they opened the way, the high way.
"Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the banana slug."
/s/ William Least Heat-Moon
Columbia, Missouri
May 1999
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Interesting to know a bit more about his thinking and how his next years went. I enjoyed the reread of this book.
One of the questions asked about the full service gas stations and what his memories of "Vern's" meant. There is a lot of nostalgia connected with gas stations, I think. The old full service ones were stops along the way, places to get gas and a bit of news. There's a book in Wisconsin called "Fill'er Up The Glory Days of Wisconsin Gas Stations." It's a bit of the past that we won't get back, and perhaps that was what brought it to mind for him. (I have a certain amount of nostalgia because my Dad had such a station, and that was my first job - pumping gas and washing windshields and chatting with the customers.)
Part of our journey back from Georgia to Wisconsin was on a stretch of Highway 4 in Illinois which is part of the old Route 66.
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Finished the book. The end was kind of a let down. I'm not sure if he accomplished what he set out to do.
Sally
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I am wondering if Ms Alice sort of wrapped up his trip." Annie
Annie, I agree with you! Sally, if you consider chapter NINE the ending, the last chapter then becomes anti-climactic - and the let-down is understandable. Maybe you can describe what you had hoped for? I don't think he was about to describe his reunion with the Cherokee on his return...but he could have at least included the fact that he hadn't found the yellow slug when cleaning out his van! :D
It it wasn't for Callie's notes, I don't think we'd ever have learned that!
Callie - in another interview, I read that after those 8 rejections, he realized that he hadn't included his Osage roots - and rewrote the book from that point of view. After three submissions of that version, a publisher finally accepted it - and it sold out immediately! NY Times Best Seller list!
nlhome - every time I return to my home state - New Jersey- I am reminded of the old-time full service stations. Did you know it is against the law in NJ to pump your own gas? Maybe someone here knows why?
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I wonder about your reaction when you read his summation of his time on the blue highway:
"I can't say I learned what I wanted to know, because I hadn't known what I wanted to know. But I did learn what I didn't know I wanted to know."
Almost a riddle, isn't it?
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Ok he does not say as much but I think the answers he was looking for is why - why am I here - what is my purpose - what makes me happy and how do I find happiness etc. etc. - the kind of questions that goes with a crisis of change that happens at various times in our lives. Some folks ignore the wind battering on their emotions and brain while others seek without knowing what it is they are seeking other than some direction. Some find it in books others therapy some hole up in a retreat of sorts and some travel - William Least... traveled the back roads of America while meeting people that allowed him to see up close various alternative lifestyles as well as, what made them tick.
I do not know that there is a single focused answer when this kind of introspection is taken on - my experience is I usually come full circle with a few edges filed off and find again, the confidence to pick up and live fully after I had chosen a focus from my bag. A bag that I thought needed to be filled with new tricks. I end up re-learning we are enough and have all the tricks we need - that is what I think William least figured out but did not feel the results or set the focus for us to see whatever was his success. He just wanted to get home and get started. Not with the emotional charge of a hurricane but rather still tentative and thankfully without the dark cloud that had been hanging over his head for most of his trip. An almost Taoist or Buddhist view that says to stop projecting in the past or future and do what is in front of you. For this author in front of him was to safely drive home where he would review his experiences while setting it out for a book. With no brain storming about organizing and writing his book he drove home paying attention to what was in front of him, the road, his vehicle and the needs of his body.
I am not convinced he started out for the sole purpose of writing a book however, when he looked in his bag of tricks he realized there lay a talent that could give him purpose not only for the trip but for his life that could replace the identity and purpose he had while a professor - because we all learn what earns us money in not our identity however, some find their identity in their work that happens to earn them money. I see William Least feeling ok with himself as a writer and he needed money so that this became his new parachute as in the book What Color is My Parachute.
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Thank you for your thoughtful response to the author's comment, Barbara. You said some things that I really think the author would agree with -
"William Least... traveled the back roads of America while meeting people that allowed him to see up close various alternative lifestyles as well as, what made them tick."
Various alternative life styles...from Brother Patrick Duffy living out his solitary life in prayer and reflection in a monastery, to the Chealanders, living in remote Frenchman with no neighbors or food store anywhere near. Or James Walker in Selma, with all of the racial tension there. These people had no thought of escaping on to the blue highways. They had found themselves - their present, right where they were.
"He just wanted to get home and get started. Not with the emotional charge of a hurricane but rather still tentative and thankfully without the dark cloud that had been hanging over his head for most of his trip. An almost Taoist or Buddhist view that says to stop projecting in the past or future and do what is in front of you."
This seems to sum up the lesson Heat-Moon learned on the road. I think others go on the road, see the sights, but don't get to know the people along the way. Maybe it isn't possible for everyone to put himself/herself out there as he did...but the inspiration is there - to step outside our comfort zones - to find out who we really are.
Heat-Moon writes tells us in one of his interviews that he wrote down addresses of those he met along the road - and mailed them copies of his book. Some were unhappy with what he wrote, but most were thrilled to see themselves - in the context of their lives. Hopefully they got as much out of the book as the author did. I know I did. I learned a lot from you all, as well. Hope to meet you on a blue highway some day! :D
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"The journey not the arrival matters." T.S.Eliot
"The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land.” – G. K. Chesterton
“Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights; it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living.” – Miriam Beard
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.” – Marcel Proust
At this point in his life, Heat-Moon had been a teacher, a teacher of literature, obvious from the number of literary allusions throughout Blue Highways.
As you pointed out, Barbara, he returned from his journey with this book in mind, which would lead to a career as a writer.
I've certainly enjoyed our time on the road together in the Ford Econoline, hope you did too. Let's plan another adventure in the very near future!
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Joan, Thanks for leading us on this journey & being patient with the stragglers (including myself). I appreciate your leadership & direction. All-in-all, this was a good journey!
Sally
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I'm just finishing "Blue Highways Revisited" and remembering the travels with this group. Thank you for a most enjoyable journey.
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My library doesn't have "Revisited". I just requested LHM's River Horse. Perhaps he will include a few of the canals that are still navigable here in the Mid-Atlantic area.
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You've all been great travel companions...especially the stragglers who got the Blue Highways message..."Slow down." "Take the back roads."
This discussion may be over, but the road goes on, the journey continues. Hope to meet you all again soon!
This discussion will be available in the SeniorLearn Archives.