Adichie! Welcome! As you can see, we are all delighted that you can join us! As you can see in the heading, (scroll up to the first post at the top of each page,) we've included a DISCUSSION SCHEDULE and will provide some topics for discussion as well as relevant links -
You'll find a link to a BookTV video on CSPAN in which Hodson Woodard describes his book, A Brave Vessel. This book contains a letter written by one William Strachey who survived a tempest on a journey to the new world in the early seventeenth century. Shakespeare used this description of the storm and the passengers' struggle for survival in his The Tempest.
Strachey's letter was well known back in Shakespeare's time. It was included in a five volume travel book - published in 1625 under the title Purchas His Pilgrims. The Folger Library possesses a copy of this rare book. http://www.folger.edu/eduPrimSrcDtl.cfm?psid=167
(http://www.folger.edu/images/collection/014452W4.jpg)
Though Woodward was not the first to discover this letter, scholars have studied it for centuries, he certainly captures the reader's attention with this readable account in A Brave Vessel.
Barbara...that is an eye-opener! If Shakespeare's own brother-in-law voyaged to the Virginia coast in 1605 and 1608, he had more than a passing interest in these settlements and the struggles involved!
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Please post below if you can join us on October 1. :D
October Book Club Online
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/tempest/tempestgraphic.jpg) | The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play, was written in 1611 in the final period of his career. The play is not really a comedy, but combines elements of tragedy with comedy, a tragicomedy.
Shakespeare set the play on an unnamed island in an unidentified age. In it, he portrays an aging magician, Prospero, who has been living in exile with his young daughter on a remote island for the past twelve years.
Over the course of a single day, Prospero uses his magic to whip up a tempest to shipwreck the men responsible for his banishment. He then proceeds to dazzle and dismay the survivors (and the audience) with his art as he orchestrates his triumphant return home where he plans to retire in peace.
For a lot of audiences and literary scholars, Prospero seems like a stand-in in for Shakespeare, who spent a lifetime dazzling audiences before retiring in 1611, shortly after The Tempest was completed. Its epilogue seems to be a final and fond farewell to the stage.
When Prospero (after giving up the art of magic he's spent a lifetime perfecting) appears alone before the audience he confesses, "Now my charms are all o'erthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own," we can't help but wonder of Shakespeare is speaking through this character here. From multiple sources, including Shakespearean Criticism, Gale Cengage |
Discussion Schedule
| Act I |
October 1~7 |
| Act II |
October 8~14 |
| Act III |
October 15~21 |
| Act IV |
October 22~28 |
| Act V |
October 29~Nov.4 |
Relevant links: BookTV: Hobson Woodward: A Brave Vessel (http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/288623-1)
DLs: Barb (augere@ix.netcom.com), JoanK (joankraft13@yahoo.com), JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net), Marcie (marciei@aol.com),
Doesn't everybody have a 'Compleat Shakespeare'?
Mine was published in 1926. I can't resist posting the first paragraph from the book's preface:
'The present edition of Shakespeare's Works has been prepared in the belief that world events of the past ten years have rendered almost imperative a revaluation of his plays. Ideas which have long lain buried under established institutions and accepted beliefs have suddenly been shocked into the open, with the result that we are now facing the facts of life with a frankness unknown to Christendom since the days of the Elizabethans. Indeed it would not be surprising to find that with the violent changes in men's thoughts following the World War a large part of the Shakesperian criticism of the past has become obselete.'
Haha. No doubt all the criticism done by women since then have made those men's criticism obselete. I can't remember when I bought my 'Comleat'. Back in my younger years, of course. And I paid 2.50 for it. And yes, I've found some airy bubbles in it. All those sweet nothings I stole from him.
My paper complete Shakespeare is so old, the paper tears if you look at it. And the print!! My eyes were a lot better back then.
But I got it for almost nothing on the Kindle, as Lorac says. On the kindle, the better a book is, the less it costs.
Now I have to decide whether to pay $12.95 for "A Brave Vessal"
I just wanted to mention I like the comparison of Prospero to Shakespeare himself in
the quote in the heading. Prospero 'dazzling and dismaying' the survivors before
retiring in triumph does seem a perfect analogy to Shakespeare writing one more great
play before retiring.
JoanK I do not think you will be disappointed reading The Brave Vessel but if you read at all from a book why not get it used from Amazon - even with the 3.99 shipping many of the hardback resales are only cents as compared to dollars - it is a book chuck full of eye openers to the times, to the voyage, to human nature, to Shakespeare, how he wrote, what he did to assure success, and an overall of life in the very early seventeenth century both in London as well as the very first plantations of English in the Americas.
Hehe - Lorac coming to class with your cotton ball beard - what a memory your mother must have of your youth - hilarious.
OK folks has anyone ever read how they prepared branches to use as today we use a toothbrush - I Remember as a kid most men sat whittling - and if nothing else it was just shaving the bark off a stick and putting a sharp point on the one end - is that what they did and used the branch on their teeth much like a pick or did they cut into the end making it look like a broom or whisk and brush the teeth - or did they just bite on the end of the branch with out any whittling - The Brave Vessel said among their personal items to bring on board should be a collection of small Rosemary wood to use on their teeth - no how were these small bits of wood used - has anyone read anything that could give a hint...?
I always wondered about George Washington's wooden false teeth and now reading about Rosemary wood used to clean teeth and in the past having read the same about Dogwood branches the wooden teeth do not seem as far fetched - it must all be in the choice of wood.
JoanK, I just picked up my copy from local Library down the street. The book is copyrighted 2009 - my copy has several copies. Yours might too. Cheaper than used. :D
Barb - maybe the rosemary wood was used for tasty toothpicks? Did they even have toothbrushes back in those days?
evidently not - according to the list of essentials for each sailing to Jamestown they were to pack "a linen pouch of" oh I did not read it correctly till just now as I typed this out "powdered rosemary wood for a toothbrush" - ah ha - so whatever they used to brush their teeth the "powdered rosemary wood " must have been like the old fashioned tooth powder we used to buy in a can that was shaken into our hand and we scooped it up with a toothbrush.
I understood from other books I've read about colonial America that there were no toothbrushes and they spoke of using Dogwood branches for toothbrushes - now I have to wonder if I mis-read those books but there was more than one book that included that tidbit.
This sounds good however, in Europe the earliest written use of a toothbrush happened after our time with this early group leaving for the Americas - not to say though that the toothbrush could have been available earlier and no one wrote about it.
The first bristle toothbrush was invented in China during the Tang Dynasty (619–907) and used hog bristle. In 1223, Japanese Zen master Dōgen Kigen recorded on Shōbōgenzō that he saw monks in China clean their teeth with brushes made of horse-tail hairs attached to an ox-bone handle. The bristle toothbrush spread to Europe, brought back from China to Europe by travelers. It was adopted in Europe during the 17th century. Many mass-produced toothbrushes, made with horse or boar bristle, were imported to England from China until the mid-20th century.
The earliest identified use of the word toothbrush in English was in the autobiography of Anthony Wood, who wrote in 1690 that he had bought a toothbrush from J. Barre
Here from another site is a tidbit of info
early forms of the toothbrush have been in existence since 3000 BC. Ancient civilizations used a "chew stick," which was a thin twig with a frayed end. These 'chew sticks' were rubbed against the teeth.
Yes,the stick with the frayed end and various powders is what I remember being described. I will keep my OralB electric,thank you!
I think people are going to need an annotated version such as the Folger edition. I have been reading the play as I will be away most of Oct., and the language is quite difficult compared to other plays (needless to say the Folgers are very good for them too, would not read the plays any other way).
Thanks for the Tip Dana - although I too have the proverbial all encompassing heavy book that includes all the plays I decided to spring for a Folger's copy - my copy has one side of a double page with modern spelling and punctuation for the original text on the other page. I just know we will be so pleased to hear from you any of the bits you find that will help us understand what we are reading.
Ok more curiosity aside from the care of teeth and under arm deodorant ;) Interesting - never having visited Bermuda I was never curious about its early history - it appears there was a second account written by Sylvester Jordain, also aboard the Sea Venture -
I was fascinated reading this online account that so follow what we read in The Brave Vessel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bermuda
It looks like Christopher Newport was the captain and vice admiral of all three ships and aboard the Sea Venture but Somers had taken the helm and so he was the decision maker that led the ship to Bermuda - did you read after his death when he body was returned to England it was placed in a barrel and pickled - ah ya yah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Newport
Here is some information on THomas Jefferson's toothbrush
http://www.history.org/history/teaching/enewsletter/may03/iotm.cfm
Here you are, the answer to your questions.
Instructions
1 Find a twig that is roughly 3 to 5 mm in diameter. The twig should also be pliable and bendable, indicating that the branch is alive and healthy. If it snaps right off the tree, then the branch is most likely dead . You should discard it as it will crumble in your mouth rather than helping to remove plaque. If you are in an area where black birch, also known as sweet birch, grows, use fresh twigs from its branches; they have a mint-like flavor. Native Americans used black birch twigs to help clean their teeth and freshen their breath.
2 Bite and chew the end of the twig, separating the woody, fibrous material inside the bark. Continue chewing for a couple of minutes.
3. Use the frayed end of the twig as a toothbrush. Use the other end as a pick to clean out the spaces between your teeth and gum lines.
4 Wrap a section of cloth or part of a handkerchief around your finger and scrub your teeth using circular motions.
5 Swish fresh clean water around in your mouth vigorously several times a day to help with cleaning your teeth and dislodging any remaining plaque or food particles between your teeth. If you have salt, use warm saltwater to swish and gargle to prevent further contamination and infection.
Tip
Vegetables such as carrots, celery and cucumbers act like natural toothbrushes because of their abrasiveness.
I would think the English used Rosemary for the same reasons the native Americans used black birch.
Fabulous - Wow you really found the how - I still have not tried it with all the Rosemary growing around my house but it is on my list of things to do - I need to get out there and trim - what started out as small delightful bushes 4 years ago are now full blown hedges that took over where I used to plant some annuals and Lambs Ears that the deer ate - so now there is no area of bark peeking around separate plants but solid Rosemary surrounding a few Cactus that recovered from that awful 3 days of freeze we had two years ago.
I think it is time I looked into the book JoanP mentioned last week that was also a support for Shakespeare when he wrote The Tempest - in the past I only read excerpts and to do it justice I cannot imagine devoting only a few days but a few days is better than none at all - so onward to search my shelves - I know I have a copy of Virgil's Aeneid here someplace.
I too have an old and yellowing copy of the Compleat Works of S.
The intro is quite interesting. It was written by Ernest Barker from Cambridge.
I will quote one paragraph since it, above all the others (37 pages) made me think about the times these plays were written. For me the times are the frame and the play is the picture in the frame. I hope others find it interesting.
"The main monuments to his genius all belong to the years which followed the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588.
Now an age of turbulence is too busy for any great measure of reflection. It is too much occupied by the effort of living and steering through the storm. Reflection--and the poetry of reflection--comes with the lull, 'taking it's origin', as Wordsworth said 'from emotion recollected in tranquility'.The great plays and poems of Shakespeare, written in the twenty years between 1592 and the end of 1611 belong to the lull when emotion can be recollected in tranquility."
JUDE: what a great quote. His great works " belong to the lull when emotion can be recollected in tranquility."
I used to be irritated that manufacturers sometimes put mint flavoring on their tooth picks or toothbrushes. But I see there is a historical basis for it, going back to the Indians. I'll remember that, next time I floss.
I ended up buying an annotated version of just The Tempest ($0.99) for Kindle. Kind of wish I hadn't. It is SO annotated that there is hardly a word without a note,and it is quite crowded and distracting,as the annotatations are in blue. I can't get the sense of a full line without 3 or so readings.
Everybody needs help with the language of 400 years ago, but to have everything spelled out for one is not helpful at all. One misses all the fun of guesssing at the author's meaning. It was probably half the fun even for the theater patrons in Shakespeare's day, enjoying his verbal wizardry. That's the key: looking for the sense in the verse.
A very interesting quote, Jude. Amazing what this genius imagined in his moments of tranquility. Defeating the Spanish on the seas in 1588 was certainly a defining moment for England. Jamestown was established a few years later, and even Shakespeare caught the spirit, and true English patriotism was born.
Time to brush my teeth. George Washington's wooden teeth. Does anyone know which wood was used?
Come to think of it, I believe it was a mighty storm that demolished much of the Spanish fleet. Perhaps it was the English witches who should get the credit. And they add so much to Shakespeare's plays.
Jonathan, sorry to be the bearer of distressing news but Washington did not have wooden teeth.
"George Washington, the first US President, did not have wooden teeth, although he had lost all but one of his own teeth by the age of 57 when he became President. Washington had several pairs of dentures, none wooden. The pair he wore when he was inaugurated were made from carved hippopotamus ivory and gold. They were made by Dr. John Greenwood, known as the "Father of Modern Dentistry".
The Smithsonian was donated a set of Washington's upper dentures in 1976, but they were stolen. Three sets of lower dentures are in various museums, including the Smithsonian's Dr. Samuel D. Harris National Museum of Dentistry, the New York Academy of Medicine, and the Mt. Vernon Visitors Center.
George Washington's teeth were not made of wood - they were made of ivory, various metals, and actual human teeth. He got various pairs, the first in 1789, the next in 1791, the next in 1796, one in 1797, and his last in 1798."
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_George_Washington_have_wooden_teeth#ixzz27GDUHvj4
Interesting, JUDE, and it makes great sense to me. Literature and art do naturally
burgeon in times of peace and prosperity.
Dare I wonder where the human teeth dentures came from? I can envision a scene. Some
poor sould selling a few teeth to the denture maker, in order to buy food he can hopefully
eat with the remaining teeth. And another bit of historical trivia exposed as false. ;)
I just logged in on my new tablet, since my computur needs to be retired.I'm so happy to be joining this group for The Tempest.I recently started with a free online course on Shakespears late plays
The instructor is wonderful and I have her text as well as Harold Blooms although I haven`t really started in earnest yet.
I find all of the online courses WONDERFUL! To add the Tempest to the list is like icing on the cake.
AMICAH
This morning I downloaded a newly translated int ebook article called "Shakespere and Typography". I skimmed but haven't yet read the whole thing yet. I did run across a comment by the author, William Blades, that Shakespeare did not care to see his plays in print. Then he speculates that it could be that he thought 1) that it would result in less people coming to see the play or 2) that he was just so tired of reading other playwright's manuscripts, that he didn't want to bother with his own.
I was hoping to find some remark about The Tempest, but there doesn't seem to be any. The author also comments on whether Shakespeare learned any Latin or more likely (and in some instances proved) used phrases he got from translations of Ovid, Plutarch and others. The author noted that Shakespeare did know a little French.
There is a theory that Shakespeare went to, or taught at, an illegal Catholic school. If that's true, then he probaly knew at least church Latin.
Having been discouraged by the small print and the yellowing pages of my Complete Plays of Shakespeare and given up also on the Library versions (on which I can't write or jot down thoughts) I went to Barnes and Noble and discovered a "Find". for $7.50.
The Barnes and Noble Shakespeare Collection of The Tempest is a separate volume which contains every possible thing that pertains to the play.It has a chapter on everything from Shakespeare and HIS England to The Tempest on the Early Stage.
The print is of the play is good sized and clear and on the opposite page any difficult word or time lost reference is explained.
The Editor is David Scott Kastan a Professor of Humanities in Columbia University and (it says) one of the world's leading authorities on Shakespeare. The few pages I have perused are insightful and very knowledgeable.
I hope others choose this volume. If you don't I'll be the only one quoting from this volume.
Jude, is the book that you have edited by Gordon McMullan with an introduction by David S. Kastan?
This keeps getting better and better! AMICAH is joining us too! Big Welcome!
Jude, that book sounds like a find! Thanks for your offer to share with those of us who don't have it. (Probably all of us!) Is there a reference in the book to Shakespeare's education - particularly the study of Latin and Ovid? References to the Aeneid and the Metamorphosis appear in a good number of his plays as they do in THE TEMPEST.
It is generally thought that due to his father's position in Stratford that he attended the excellent school there until he was 13 when his father's position changed.
Here's a description of that school from the Folger though there is no record that he attended -
"We wish we could know more about the life of the world's greatest dramatist. His plays and poems are testaments to his wide reading -- especially to his knowledge of Virgil, Ovid, Plutarch, Holinshed's Chronicles, and the Bible -- and to his mastery of the English language, but we can only speculate about his education. We know that the King's New School in Stratford-upon-Avon was considered excellent. The school was one of the English "grammar schools" established to educate young men, primarily in Latin grammar and literature. As in other schools of the time, students began their studies at the age of four or five in the attached "petty school," and there learned to read and write in English, studying primarily the catechism from the Book of Common Prayer. After two years in the petty school, students entered the lower form (grade) of the grammar school, where they began the serious study of Latin grammar and Latin texts that would occupy most of the remainder of their school days. (Several Latin texts that Shakespeare used repeatedly in writing his plays and poems were texts that schoolboys memorized and recited.) Latin comedies were introduced early in the lower form; in the upper form, which the boys entered at age ten or eleven, students wrote their own Latin orations and declamations, studied Latin historians and rhetoricians, and began the study of Greek using the Greek New Testament.
Since the records of the Stratford "grammar school" do not survive, we cannot prove that William Shakespeare attended the school; however, every indication (his father's position as an alderman and bailiff of Stratford, the playwright's own knowledge of the Latin classics, scenes in the plays that recall grammar-school experiences"
JoanK - here's the only thing I was able to find regarding the "illegal" Catholic education at this time -
Shakespeare probably began his education at the age of six or seven at the Stratford grammar school, which is still standing only a short distance from his house on Henley Street and is in the care of the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust. Although we have no record of Shakespeare attending the school, due to the official position held by John Shakespeare it seems likely that he would have decided to educate young William at the school which was under the care of Stratford's governing body. The Stratford grammar school had been built some two hundred years before Shakespeare was born and in that time the lessons taught there were, of course, dictated primarily by the beliefs of the reigning monarch. In 1553, due to a charter by King Edward VI, the school became known as the King's New School of Stratford-upon-Avon. During the years that Shakespeare attended the school, at least one and possibly three headmasters stepped down because of their devotion to the Catholic religion proscribed by Queen Elizabeth. One of these masters was Simon Hunt (b. 1551), who, in 1578, according to tradition, left Stratford to pursue his more spiritual goal of becoming a Jesuit, and relocated to the seminary at Rheims. Hunt had found his true vocation: when he died in Rome seven years later he had risen to the position of Grand Penitentiary.
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/shakespeareeducation.html
At least we'll have you, JUDE. I am green with envy from your description of that
book. Wouldn't it be great to have one of those for all Shakespeare's work? What a boon
to students!
Marcie
Yes, that's the book. Hope you share the joy of using it with me.
Babi
My B&N have a whole section of their editions of Shakespeare's works.
There are High School series and this general series.
Mine is a paperback of 282 pages. Theplay itself is 153 pages. That high number because the play is on the righthand
page and the special words and phrases are explained on the lefthand page.
Re: Shakeapeares education
I have not perused enough of the book yet but will do so today or tomorrow and will add as much as possible to what
has already been posted.
My statement about Shakespeare and catholic schools was based on a PBS program that Michael Wood did. The story he told was: Shakespeares family was catholic. Henry the 8 when he left the Catholic Church banned Catholic education, but there were many secret Catholic schools established. Woods tracked down records of one such school, where there is some indication that Shakespeare taught, at a period when little is known about what he was doing.
I'm sorry; I don't remember any more details than that, with my senior memory. Did anyone else see the show. I think it might have been called "Discovering Shakespeare" or "Following Shakespeare": something like that.
Ok JoanK - I thought i remembered also he may have attended a Catholic school - however, I have the book that went with that series - I do not have the video for reference - the book indicates that the reason there is no record he attended school is "early records of King Edward VI Grammar School in Stratford have not survived, because this is one instance where direct biographical evidence from the plays is indisputable...In these plays, the patterns of his quotation and his remembered reading betray the fact that the author was steeped in the Tudor grammar school curriculum. Although this does not prove that the school was in Stratford, it does offer very strong circumstantial evidence that he went to grammar school; and since..." - the text continues explaining who and how his father was entitled to send his son to the local school...
Then it says - "Education was chiefly in the language of authority, church and the law: Latin. Years later, in a back-handed compliment, Ben Johnson said Shakespeare had 'small Latin and less Greek.' This is often quoted as if to dismiss Shakespeare's education, but Jonson's remark needs to be taken in perspective. Jonson himself was a very good Latin scholar. What would be 'small Latin' in his day as much more than is mastered by many a classics graduate now. Even in country grammar schools from Devon to Cambria, boys were expected to 'speak Latin purely and readily;. The quotes in Shakespeare's plays show that he started with the nationally prescribed text Lily's Latin Grammar (which he sends up in the Merry Wives of Windsor), then books of 'Sentences', before moving on to Dialogues and, at eight or nine, to full texts of writers such as Ovid."
The Catholic education may have been because "four of the six teachers in Shakespeare's time had Catholic leanings, Two of them came from Oxford colleges with especially strong connections: St. John's (the Jesuit martyr Edmund Campion's college) and Brasenose (known until recently for its links with Lancashire Catholicism). Of these masters, Simon Hunt would have taught William in his upper school from about 1573. Hunt was a private Catholic, or at least Catholic in sympathies, who in 1575 retired to the seminary at Douai and became a Jesuit."
The text continues to explain how after Shakespeare left school, Elizabeth's Privy Council sent letters to all dioceses concerning the Catholic influences in education corrupting the instructing of youth. The text suggests in light of this evidence the presence of the Old Faith at Stratford grammar in 1570 is interesting and that Simon Hunt was recruited just after the Northern Rebellion where John Shakespeare was deputy bailiff and therefore was the hiring of Hunt a political act...?
Wow! I'm ashamed when I hear how much public school children then were supposed to know.
Sad, isn't it? One of my bugs is that I was able to get a job as account clerk right out of high school. I was responsible for Radio Accounts Receivable and Accounts Payable for the whole broadcast station. Now, for the same job today, they want someone with an Associates Degree. My question to one person, recently, was "Don't they teach anything in high school any more?" The response was NO. Kind of makes my getting a certificate a waste of time (at least for job hunting purposes).
So, now they don't teach as much? They pass kids to the next grade so as not to harm their self-esteem and they've lowered the grade standards. When I was in high school an A was 93-100, now it seems to be 90-100, and so forth. And then there are the "discretionary" points which can push an D to a C.
From the other side of the school house door - my daughter and daughter-in-law - both teachers, one in western North Carolina and the other north of Houston - a fifth to a quarter of the kids in each class have one or both parents in jail - (these are middle income type parents - not homeless or the very poor) another quarter of the students from about 6th grade on are on drugs - less than a third of the students come from a family with a father and mother as we knew back in the 50s and of those who do have two parents, some have a second mother or second father (divorce which often means a disruption as they visit the other parent) - and among those who do have both parents raising them at least half of those students both parents are working outside the house.
The idea of parents available to help with homework is a joke - that only applies to less than a quarter of the class - there are so many social aspects of life that a teacher is expected to teach well enough for them to pass a test all in a 60 to maybe 90 minute class. The lack of a students ability to focus is alarming and if you say something that disagrees with a parent's attitude about any of the social issues and the parent complains you can easily be dismissed. If the principle does not dismiss then the parents often bring it to the school board.
Teachers are now therapists, counselors, substitute parents, a friend the student turns to for personal advise on and on... Normal in school today is for a teacher to stock a shelf with peanut butter, crackers, juice boxes for the many kids who are not on some sort of program but the family is struggling. Both my daughter and daughter-in-law teach in areas of middle income with a few lower income and a few high middle income - we are not talking about poor kids - when we are thinking prison as a punishment think what it does to the kids - some crime would be better served with counseling or with a system of small cottage internment where families could easily and often visit rather than large institutions located far from the towns and cities where the families of most who are sent to jail live.
We need to think of after school mentors for these kids - teachers put in a full day - and are obligated to be a supervisor for an after-school program without pay and they often have to buy teaching aids and supplies from their own salary - they are bullied by parents, legislators and the tax structure does not cover the needs of today's student teacher ratio - plus, with better pay for the amount of education required of a teacher, the good teachers, without a partner making a decent income, would not be drifting off into better paying jobs. Teachers today are like glorified volunteers who can only do the work because there is sufficient income from another source. Schools need a bevy, not two or three, full time therapists in addition to the counselors who during high school were supposed to guide students to the classes and tests needed to get into college. Most counselors today are dealing with behavior and emotional issues.
With that we wonder why they are not learning what we learned - it takes a mature older teen to do it on their own and that puts them into a community college just to have the emotional stability based in taking care of themselves to learn what they need to know to get a career type job.
I was refraining from remarking about that Barb. Many years ago I knew someone who worked for an inner-city school. She said that she couldn't actually do too much teaching, she was to busy just trying to keep the students from being disruptive, that is the ones that showed up. She also complained that many parents were not cooperative. She felt that most of these parents either didn't give a hoot or, she emphasized, they felt threatened by children who knew more than them. This included proper English and speech. About ten years ago, one of the gals I knew who had worked at Fry with me the first few years I was there, came back after several years working in same area. She reported the same thing and added that she found the atmosphere threatening. Add to that the sad realization that many school boards and administrations do not truly support the teachers when something happens.
I know first hand that spending too much time during class being buddies with the students is detrimental to class grades. I had an English teacher in high school who spent about half the class shooting the breeze with students (mostly boys) who were interested in road rallying. Then one day, she asked me why most of the students weren't doing well grade wise. I was one of the few who got high grades in her favorite subject, Shakespeare. We students picked the play we wanted to read, but most didn't put any real effort into it. The guys egged her on to avoid being taught anything and the girls lost interest by the time she did try to teach. She was very good when she did teach. Too, bad.
My son was in "gifted" classes in elementary and middle school,and still the students were too disruptive to learn anything. One year the teacher's son was in the class,and I was appalled by the behavior his father tolerated from him. If I had seen my son acting like that he would've been in big trouble. That was in an elementary school in Naples,FL, where only 20% of the kids were from lower than middle income families,and about 15% were from non-English speaking households. He hated school- still does- because it goes so slow. His dad and I were the same,but in the 60's they didn't have 'gifted classes' or move people ahead grades because "everyone was equal"... Not getting the concept of equal but not the same,I guess.
I guess this is a subject that hits buttons - of course we all have loads more to say how modern life is affecting kids and their experience attempting or not, to learn a thing or two but lets go forward with The Tempest ;) :D ::) We obviously know of The Tempests in the Classrooms - Oh lordy talk about corn -
Well anyhow most of us may be the last of the dinosaurs when we were expected to take years of Latin or Greek in High School - for me it was Latin - and I understand it does not help with on-the-job skills but that is a whole other discussion - for now I doubt I could any longer translate a page from Virgil but at least these ancients are not unknown to us - anyone having taken English Lit would know these authors - reading the Aeneid reminds me more of The Brave Vessel
In book one So he spoke and, turning his spear,
smote the hollow mount on its side;
when lo! the winds, as if in armed array,
rush forth where passage is given,
and blow in storm blasts across the world.
They swoop down upon the sea,
and from its lowest depths upheave it all –
East and South winds together, and the Southwester,
thick with tempests – and shoreward roll vast billows.
Then come the cries of men and creaking of cables.
In a moment clouds snatch sky and day from the Trojan’s eyes;
black night broods over the deep.
From pole to pole it thunders,
the skies lighten with frequent flashes,
all forebodes the sailors instant death.
Straightway Aeneas’ limbs weaken with chilling dread; he groans and,
stretching his two upturned hands to heaven, thus cries aloud:
“O thrice and four times blest, whose lot it was to meet death before their fathers’ eyes
beneath the lofty walls of Troy! O son of Tydeus, bravest of the Danaan race,
ah! that I could not fall on the Ilian plains and gasp out this lifeblood at your hand – where,
under the spear of Aeacides, fierce Hector lies prostrate, and mighty Sarpedon;
where Simois seizes and sweeps beneath his waves
so many shields and helms and bodies of the brave!”
As he flings forth such words, a gust, shrieking from the North,
strikes full on his sail and lifts the waves to heaven.
The oars snap, then the prow swings round and gives the broadside to the waves;
down in a heap comes a sheer mountain of water.
Some of the seamen hang upon the billow’s crest;
to others the yawning sea shows ground beneath the waves;
the surges seethe with sand.
Three ships the South Wind catches and hurls on hidden rocks –
rocks the Italians call the Altars, rising amidst the waves,
a huge ridge topping the sea.
Three the East forces from the deep into shallows and sandbanks,
a piteous sight, dashes on shoals and girds with a mound of sand.
One, which bore the Lycians and loyal Orontes,
before the eyes of Aeneas a mighty toppling wave strikes astern.
The helmsman is dashed out and hurled head foremost,
but the ship is thrice on the same spot
whirled round and round by the wave and engulfed in the sea’s devouring eddy.
Here and there are seen swimmers in the vast abyss,
with weapons of men, planks, and Trojan treasure amid the waves.
Now the stout ship of Ilioneus, now of brave Achates, and that wherein Abas
sailed and that of aged Aletes, the storm has mastered; with side joints loosened,
all let in the hostile flood and gape at every seam.
Meanwhile Neptune saw the sea in turmoil of wild uproar,
the storm let loose and the still waters seething up from their lowest depths.
Greatly troubled was he, and gazing out over the deep he raised a composed countenance above the water’s surface.
Straightway Aeneas’ limbs weaken with chilling dread; he groans and, stretching his two upturned hands to heaven, reminds me of the passengers and crew of the Sea Venture battening down the hatches pumping and praying for a God to save them - as Strachey wrote, "It pleased God to bring a greater affliction yet upon us."
I wonder if this description of the land where the ancient ship with Aeneas aboard seeks safety after their storm is close to the description of Shakespeare's Island for The Tempest - it sure does not fit Bermuda.
The wearied followers of Aeneas strive to run for the nearest shore and turn towards the coast of Libya.
There in a deep inlet lies a spot, where an island forms a harbour with the barrier of its side,
on which every wave from the main is broken, then parts into receding ripples.
On either side loom heavenward huge cliffs and twin peaks,
beneath whose crest far and wide is the stillness of sheltered water;
above, too, is a background of shimmering woods with an overhanging grove,
black with gloomy shade.
Under the brow of the fronting cliff is a cave of hanging rocks;
within are fresh water and seats in living stone, a haunt of Nymphs.
Here no fetters imprison weary ships, no anchor holds them fast with hooked bite.
Here, with seven ships mustered from all his fleet.
Aeneas takes shelter; and, disembarking with earnest longing for the land,
the Trojans gain the welcome beach and stretch their brine-drenched limbs upon the shore.
At once Achates struck a spar from flint, caught the fire in leaves,
laid dry fuel about, and waved the flame amid the tinder.
Then, wearied with their lot, they take out the corn of Ceres,
spoiled by the waves, with the tools of Ceres,
and prepare to parch the rescued grain in the fire and crush it under the stone.
another tidbit - By 1600, at least one-third of the male population could read, and Puritans pushed for significant increases in funding for grammar schools.
Interesting - earlier in our per-discussion we learned that there were enormous numbers of people moving into London from the countryside because of better wages - just read a great percentage of the immigrants were French Huguenots -
Another reason for the many moving to the city which affected the ease that the Virginia Company thought they could attract planters is that those who worked the land and who for generations lived in the same cottage with hearsay and tradition giving them rights to their home but with no document giving them any legal or land rights to the cottage and garden were affected as the Feudal system was breaking up. The aristocrats who owned the land were kicking these folks out of their cottages so they could control what and how and where they farmed or what acres they devoted to protected parks for deer and other game for shooting parties.
All this movement of humanity going on and London goes through a phase of intense Xenophobia so that many immigrants realizing the difficulty put before them to obtain licenses etc. decide to move to Holland.
JUDE, I checked on-line with B&N, and while they had many, many versions of
Shakespeare's works, I could not identify the one you described. Knowing it's a
paperback may help. Can you give me any cover identifiers? Other than a picture
of Shakespeare, of course!
Babi, a few days ago Marcie asked here:
Jude, is the book that you have edited by Gordon McMullan with an introduction by David S. Kastan?
Jude then answered in the affirmative. Does this help you?
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
PREDISCUSSION
October Book Club Online
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/tempest/tempestgraphic.jpg) | The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play, was written in 1611 in the final period of his career. The play is not really a comedy, but combines elements of tragedy with comedy, a tragicomedy.
Shakespeare set the play on an unnamed island in an unidentified age. In it, he portrays an aging magician, Prospero, who has been living in exile with his young daughter on a remote island for the past twelve years.
Over the course of a single day, Prospero uses his magic to whip up a tempest to shipwreck the men responsible for his banishment. He then proceeds to dazzle and dismay the survivors (and the audience) with his art as he orchestrates his triumphant return home where he plans to retire in peace.
For a lot of audiences and literary scholars, Prospero seems like a stand-in in for Shakespeare, who spent a lifetime dazzling audiences before retiring in 1611, shortly after The Tempest was completed. Its epilogue seems to be a final and fond farewell to the stage.
When Prospero (after giving up the art of magic he's spent a lifetime perfecting) appears alone before the audience he confesses, "Now my charms are all o'erthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own," we can't help but wonder of Shakespeare is speaking through this character here. From multiple sources, including Shakespearean Criticism, Gale Cengage |
Discussion Schedule
| Act I |
October 1~7 |
| Act II |
October 8~14 |
| Act III |
October 15~21 |
| Act IV |
October 22~28 |
| Act V |
October 29~Nov.4 |
Relevant links: BookTV: Hobson Woodward: A Brave Vessel (http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/288623-1)
DLs: Barb (augere@ix.netcom.com), JoanK (joankraft13@yahoo.com), JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net), Marcie (marciei@aol.com),
Babi, I think that this is the book that Jude recommended:
http://www.amazon.com/Tempest-Barnes-Noble-Shakespeare/dp/1411400763/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348584092&sr=1-1&keywords=barnes+and+noble+tempest
Babi
The ISBN # listed on the back of the book is:
978-1-4114-0076-4
Gordon McMullan is Editor
David Scott Kastan is the series editor.
There is no picture on the cover-just writing:
The Tempest in huge Red letters and other words in black
Shakespeare is also in red.
Is this enough info? Let me know.
I promised to look for info on Shakespeares education.
Meanwhile you all have covered all the points I could have added and then some.
I will note some of the important events happening in the world at that time. (If you remember
my remark about the "Times" being the frame and the play itself the picture within the frame.
1577-1580 Sir Francis Drake sails round the world
1584 Failure of the Virginia Colony
1587 Execution of Mary Queen of Scots
1588 Defeat of the Spanish Armada
1590 First three books of Spenser's Fairy Queene published
Marlowe's Tamberlaine published
1592 Shakespeare is 27 and his play HenryVI is performed. From here we can follow his written career.
Jude do you have any information if Spenser's Fairy Queene influenced Shakespeare - by any chance have you read it - or has anyone here read it - it has been on my list forever and one of those book I am afraid of tackling on my own but since it was written before Shakespeare wrote his plays I just wonder if you had come across any info that he knew of Spenser and or read the Fairy Queene
Barbara, I think that Shakespeare was influenced by Spenser's Fairie Queen when he wrote King Lear. (I wonder if he lifted directly from it. :D ) Will look it up later if time...but I think the answer to your question is a definite yes!
Re Spenser & The Faerie Queene.
I have not read any of the six books of this title. Spenser planned to write 12 books but died in1599 at the age of 37.
The story is incomplete because of this,
Each book represents a specific Christain virtue.
Spenser was a very devout Protestant and his books are thought to represent the religous battles between Rome and London that raged during these early years of the Protestant Reformation.He was also a devotee of Queen Elizabeth and
resented greatly the Catholic propaganda against her.
I have not read anywhere of Spenser's influence on our Will. However I am always willing to learn.
JUDE & MARCIE, thank you for that information. I'm sure I can find it now, if it's there.
I'm just guessing, since I haven't read Spenser, but I can't help feeling that Spenser could not have taught Shakespeare anything about fairies and queens. Both make many appearances in his plays. And I would have a bigger problem with fairies and queens that are used to promote virtue. Shakespeare would have had little use for that. Flawed characters are Shakespeare's metier. Cardinal sins count for much of the motivation: ambition, greed, jealousy, gluttony, ad infinitum. Too, too worldly wise. Makes one wonder with amazement at Shakespeare's schooling.
Does this sound familiar?
From Spenser’s Faerie Queene, an opening scene similar to Leir is played:
The eldest Gonorill gan to protest,
That she much more then hew owne life him lov’d:
And Regan greater love to him profest,
Then all the world, when ever it were proov’d;
But Cordeill said she lov’d him, as behoov’d:
Whose simple answer, wanting colours faire
To paint it forth, him to displeasance moov’d,
That in his crowne he counted her no heir,
But twixt the other twaine his kingdome whole did share.
(Bullough, 333)
The first mention of Cordelia’s death by hanging is introduced by Spenser, and was probably here that Shakespeare received the idea. After replacing King Leyr to his throne, Gonorill and Regan have her in imprisoned where, "Through proud ambition, against her rebeld, / And overcummen kept in prison long, / Till wearie of that wretched life, her selfe she hong." http://king-lear.org/spensers_the_fairie_queen
That does sound familiar, Joan. That's amazing. Almost word for word. What can make of that?
From the list of characters in Spenser's Faerie Queene I found these that I wonder how close any of them are to the Harpy or Caliban in The Tempest.
Sansfoy, Sansjoy and Sansloy (names from the old French meaning "Faithless", "Joyless" and "Lawless"), three saracen knights who fight Redcrosse in Book One.
Satyrane, a wild half-satyr man raised in the wild and the epitome of natural human potential. Tamed by Una, he protects her, but ends up locked in a battle against the chaotic Sansloy, which remains unconcluded. Satyrane finds Florimell's girdle, which she drops while flying from a beast.
I think a girdle is not as we imagine today but after looking it up it is sort of a wide belt worn low and used to hook a small tasseled satchel that contains a book called a girdle book.
I don't know, Barb,,,that Satyrane looks like a candidate.
I hope no one is confused about the other Tempest discussion. it's locked until Monday. You can continue to post here until then, though.
Interesting that the Satyrane is battling Sansloy, the 'lawless' one. I wonder if we will see a parallel
there? Might find a couple of characters 'without faith' and 'without joy', too.
Interesting article about Shakespeare using the Geneva Bible - He lived with a French Huguenot Family in London and the Bible would have been spread out on the table - there are three plays mentioned in the article, including Hamlet where there are quotes that point to Shakespeare having read this version of the Bible but no reference that the Bible was used affecting The Tempest -
From the mid sixteenth century, from about 1540 the French Huguenots were flocking to London in addition to other places like the Netherlands, South America in Brazil, South Africa and later Florida where the colony was wiped out, Wales, Ireland, Germany - during the early migration they were Calvinists, later even in London some were Catholic - the religious wars were taking place all over Europe and Stewart James becoming King in 1603 had Catholic leanings compared to the House of Tudor.
Here is an interesting link of how Shakespeare was acquainted with the Bible and how the Geneva Bible was used in some of his plays.
http://www.reformation21.org/articles/shakespeare-and-the-geneva-bible.php
My stepmother's family emigrated from Switzerland, and they always thought the name 'Chatoney' (accent on the 'chat')
was German. They were much surprised when a Chatoney stationed overseas discovered the name was pronounced
'Cha-to-nay', accent on last syllable, and they were descenndents of French Huguenots.
I have read the first act, and I got great pleasure from reading a scene first, following footnotes as needed to get the meanin, and then reading it straight through aloud. Just straight deadpan reading (no hamming it up). It made me appreciate it more, and still did not take much time.
(I avoided what has been a trap for me -- thinking I have to read all the forwards and background material in my book first, before I read the play. No. I dived right in!)
Sounds like diving in rather than inching in the cold water - however, we filled up a month of getting a handle on this or that tidbit didn't we...Monday it is and JoanK thanks for suggesting reading it aloud will be so satisfying.
I must say it is so nice to have words translated into meanings that help make sense of the book....I have a couple of copies of the book (from the library of course), one with translations of English words into our usage today/1, (amazing how much the English language can transition thru the years; fascinating!) and one crib book you might say that has Shakespeare's English on one side of the page, and a current translation on the other/2 (interesting to think one must translate English to English)
1/..2008-Modern Library paperback edition..The Tempest by W. Shakespeare edited by Jonathan Bate and Eric Rasmussen (978-0-8129-6910-8)
2/..No Fear Shakespeare The Tempest edited by John Crother...'Spark's Notes'
(13:978-1-5866-3849-8)
the above along with all the insight gained from the group, I hope i have all my bases covered ....looking forward to tomorrow and beginning....................
Deb
I like that idea, too, JOAN. I've started reading the play but I think it would
be a great idea to read it aloud.
By amusing coincidence, I had a "Tempest" clue in a crossword puzzle yesterday.
The 'King of Naples'. Voila! Alonso!
My copy is written in the original English,too, BOOKAD, but there are footnotes
to tell me the meaning of words I can't figure out from context and/or similarities.
Fair weather. Calm seas. The King of Naples and his distinguished company are sailing home after the royal wedding of his daughter. What could possibly happen to spoil the festive atmosphere?
Fair weather indeed Jonathan -
Interesting Babi you had a crossword puzzle and lo and behold if this weekend our local PBS station at the end of it donation drive didn't repeat following each other all 4 episodes of Michael Wood tracing the life of Shakespeare.
Dana you sound like the old saying, you have come loaded for bear - what a nice collection of resources you have accumulated.
I am anxious to read how closely the description of the storm in The Tempest resembles the description of the storms in either The Brave Vessel or the Aeneid.
This has been a remarkable pre-discussion, jam-packed with so much information we could not be better prepared to set off on this journey. If you are jus joining us now, do not worry. Though we are locking this discussion now, it will won't go anywhere and we can refer to it often as we go along.
Our discussion of Shakespeare's play begins HERE, TODAY (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3499.msg169528#msg169528)Come join us! We're looking for you!