Emma~ Jane Austen ~ March - April Book Club Online

[PatH]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

March/April Book Club Online

Emma
by Jane Austen

"I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like”  Jane Austen of Emma. Will you like her, the heroine who Austen claimed was most like herself, and who inspired a movie called "Clueless"? If not, there's lots more to like in this classic novel of love, misdirection, and social class.

Schedule

March 1-5  Part I:  Chapters 1-7
March 6 - 12 Part I:  Chapters 8-17
March 13  Part I:  Chapter 18, Part II Chapter 1-6
March 19  Part II: Chapter 7-13  
March 23  Part II: Chapters 14-18 Part III Chapters 1-4
March 27  Part III: Chapter 5-9

QUESTIONS VOLUME II CHAPTERS 7-13

1. Does the fact that frank Churchill goes to London to get his hair cut change your opinion of him? Why or why not?

2. Why does Emma not want to go to the Coles? Do such class distinctions exist where you live? What is their basis? Why did her opinion of the Coles change when she got there?

3. Did Emma do wrong when she shared her suspicions of Jane Fairfax with Frank? What do you think of his efforts to tease Jane about them in chapter X?

4. Who do you think the piano came from? What do Jane's reactions while people are talking about it tell you?

5. Is Emma falling in love with Frank Churchill? Is it possible not to know if you're in love or not?

6. "A mind lively and at ease, can do with seeing nothing, and can see nothing that does not answer." Do you agree?

7. Harriet, tempted by everything and swayed by half a word, was always very long at a purchase." Have you ever gone shopping with a friend like that? How did it work out?

Text of Emma ~~~ Emma review ~~~ Austen related books ~~~ Jane Austen biography

Discussion Leader: JoanK

  

[PatH]

Hmmmmmm.....what can go wrong now?  

You know perfectly well Austen will think of something.

A comment on "brother and sister": you considered the husband of your sister as a sort of brother, and same with the sexes reversed .  So Emma thinks of John Knightly as a brother, and Isabella thinks of Mr. Knightly as a brother, he thinking of Isabella as a sister.  Emma and Mr. Knightly are one step away from this, but close enough to explain her remark.  It's amusing how indignant he is, and Austen emphasizes it by ending the chapter there.

[bellamarie]

Ah...thank you PatH., I was wondering about this.  I completely forgot Emma's sister Isabella, is married to Mr. Knightley's brother.

Austen has cracked the door, for us to see the relationship would be appropriate, should Emma and Mr. Knightley decide to go in that direction.

[JoanK]

Hmmmm.

[Jonathan]

Enjoy your company, Joan. How I envy you. I wish I could have someone dropping in to take me away from the arduous task of writing an answer to Bellamarie's good case for friendship with Emma. It's going to take something. I've never read anything that allows for more disagreement than EMMA. But first:

"Brother and sister! No, indeed."

This little expression with Mr. Knightley gave Emma considerable pleasure."

Doesn't Emma have two brothers? One, John, by marriage law. And one, George, Mr. Knightley, by propinquity. For so many years, growing up, Emma had Mr Knightley as a big brother. The pleasure she feels must be the sensation that  their relationship has gone to something new.

I'm so happy for Mr. Elton. 'He seemed not merely happy with her, but proud. He had the air of congratulating himself on having brought such a woman to Highbury, as not even Miss Woodhouse could equal...'

Augusta will turn out to be the perfect vicar's wife. Emma thinks only of matchmaking. Mrs Elton wants to raise the cultural and social level of Highbury. She wants only to be helpful, whether it's making connections for Emma and her father in Bath, or helping Jane to the best place as governess. Obviously Mrs Elton has many connections to a wider world. And she does have many in the community siding with her. She's a breath of fresh air in Highbury.

[JoanK]

In two hours, there'll be twelve people in this small apartment (including five kids ages 3 to 15). I doubt I'll be able to get near the computer for awhile. But PatH and others will be steering the ship.

Maybe it's time to back away from the plot a minute and look at the detailed picture Austen gives us of everyday life for the privileged in a small town. What has changed and what hasn't? Are the conversations less predictable now? Do we recognize any of these characters as people we know?

What about the snobbery? It has seemed to me, as I've moved about quite a bit in my life, that everywhere I go, there are people who have decided that they are better than someone else on some grounds or other. (The ones that include me in the "better" class. Presumably those that don't, don't talk to me). Have you had that experience? 

[JoanK]

More on rank and snobbery: there is more to this horror of the landed gentry of those who are "in trade" than just the difference between "old money" and "new money" that exists in most societies.

Historically, the source of wealth in England, as in all countries, was in the land, and it was the people who owned land who had the money and power. But England, like all countries, was undergoing the transition where trade became more important. England had become the leading trading and mercantile country in the world. These new rich people showing up with their wealth from trade were the future, and the landed gentry were the past, hanging on to their position with both hands.

Again, we see that in Downton Abbey a hundred years later, where the lord of the manor has to invest his money in something else in order to keep his landed estate going.

In Austen's time, the only access the landed class had to that money was through navel officers who acted as privateers, capturing trading ships of other nations. And through those who maintained plantations in the Caribbean, using slave labor to grow sugar, and bring it to England. Austen has characters in some of her books doing both those things.

[JoanK]

On slavery: there is a brief mention of the slave trade in Emma (I forget if it's in this section or the next ). England itself did not have slaves, but they were very active in the slave trade. Their was a growing abolitionist movement in England aimed at abolishing the slave trade, and Austen was very sympathetic to it. Although she may not have fully realized how horrible it was. There is also a brief anti-slavery mention in the book where her characters make their money from a Caribbean plantation.

These are rare times when the outside world intrudes into Austen's cameo world.

[Halcyon]

Augusta will turn out to be the perfect vicar's wife. Emma thinks only of matchmaking. Mrs Elton wants to raise the cultural and social level of Highbury. She wants only to be helpful, whether it's making connections for Emma and her father in Bath, or helping Jane to the best place as governess. Obviously Mrs Elton has many connections to a wider world. And she does have many in the community siding with her. She's a breath of fresh air in Highbury.

Jonathan, Jonathan
Surely you jest? 

Does anyone know what the qualifications were to be a vicar?  And how does "parish business" fit in with Mr Knghtely and Mr Weston?  Is it political, religious or both?

[BarbStAubrey]

here we go with a couple of helpful links

Hierarchy of the Church of England in the 1820 period
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Definitions/Church.html

Vicars' Close, in Wells, Somerset, England, is claimed to be the oldest purely residential street with its original buildings all surviving intact in Europe. John Julius Norwich calls it "that rarest of survivals, a planned street of the mid-14th century".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicars%27_Close,_Wells

In effect, an advowson is the right to nominate a person to be parish priest (subject to episcopal approval), and such right was often originally held by the lord of the manor of the principal manor within the parish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advowson

By the 1630s, however, it seems that most parishes, at least in the south of England, had a clergyman with a university education. Most stemmed from the middle ranks of society. In the north of England and the north Midlands, however, many clergy came from humbler social backgrounds, were educated locally, often in recently founded grammar schools, and never went to university. That broad generalization seems to have been valid even into the 19th century.From the 18th century onwards the younger sons of country gentleman came to fill the majority of the higher and best remunerated positions in the church (as they did in the state), though there were always occasional exceptions.

From the 17th century many more clergy were ordained than could be provided with permanent benefices and the less well connected clergy spent their lives as assistant curates doing duty for others, often supplementing an inadequate stipend by acting as the local schoolmaster.
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Clergy_of_Church_of_England_%28in_England%29

[Halcyon]

Barb,  Thank you so much for the links. Helps explain Mr Elton's behavior. He really didn't have to have a "higher calling".

[PatH]

Barb, thanks for all those links.  So, a vicar would have to have some level of education to enter the clergy, and of course he would have to be ordained (made a priest).  Then he would have to be appointed to a "living".  This would include the vicarage, where he could live, and a stipend, from the tithes of the congregation.  Sometimes it also included some land, "glebe", which could be farmed for more income.  Usually a "patron", someone of great importance in the area, has the power to make the appointment.  Often in Austen's novels you know who the patron is, and it may even be a plot point, but here it isn't mentioned.

For non-Anglicans, priests in the Church of England, and Episcopalian priests here, can marry.  Austen doesn't seem to use the word priest.

More about parish business after supper.

[PatH]

Halcyon, you were posting while I was writing.  You're right, often it wasn't a "higher calling", just a way to make a suitable genteel living, or move up to gentility.  There were books of sermons published to help out those who couldn't be bothered to write there own.

Mr. Elton is away from the parish for many weeks while looking for a wife and arranging his marriage.  Who took care of the parish?  It isn't mentioned, but there were hordes of curates who hadn't gotten livings glad to fill in for whatever the vicar could pay.

[PatH]

And how does "parish business" fit in with Mr Knghtely and Mr Weston?  Is it political, religious or both?

The parishes were administrative districts too.  Mr. Knightly and Mr. Weston would be taking care of secular business concerning local affairs.  Knightly's estate, Donwell Abbey, although close to Highbury, is in the adjacent parish, but he seems to do a lot of business in Highbury.  Perhaps his parish doesn't have a real village.

In addition, Mr. Knightly is a magistrate, which means he is the main legal authority locally, and judges run of the mill cases.  more serious ones would go to a London court.

Maybe that explains his tendency to be judgmental.  

[Halcyon]

Maybe that explains his tendency to be judgmental.

Haha.  PatH. Thank you for the explanation. 

[Halcyon]

JoanK
Maybe it's time to back away from the plot a minute and look at the detailed picture Austen gives us of everyday life for the privileged in a small town. What has changed and what hasn't? Are the conversations less predictable now? Do we recognize any of these characters as people we know?

Every town seems to have its social hierarchy.  Where we live there is a distinction between Northsiders and the rest of the town, the Northsiders being lower on the class scale.  The dividing line is the railroad tracks, tracks that were torn up fifty years ago!  Same thing in the small town I grew up in, the division was the railroad tracks.  Not good to live on the other side of the tracks.  I have lots of good memories living near the tracks, finding pieces of coal to write on the sidewalk with, walking on the railroad ties (especially over the bridge), watching the caboose go by, waving to the engineer and hearing stories about long ago hobo camps further down the line.  We were always told not to play near the tracks but, of course, that never stopped us.  I remember once crawling under a stopped train to take a shortcut home from school.  Lucky no one saw us do that!

[bellamarie]

Halcyon I echo your sentiment.
 

Jonathan, Jonathan
Surely you jest?

 Why is it that when Emma tries to help someone she is meddling, and it's thought to be negative, yet Mrs. Elton comes to Highbury, seems to want to tell everyone how to live, and it is not meddling.  Well, Jane sure wishes Mrs. E., would butt out of her business.  She argues with her about no longer walking to the post office, and then about applying for governess jobs.

I get the feel Jane has some other plans for herself once the Campbells return, and she tries to make Mrs. Elton see she does not want her to rush her into things.  Jane seems to be getting letters from the Campbells.

pg. 502 Jane's solicitude about fetching her own letters had not escaped Emma.  She had heard and seen it all; and felt some curiosity to know whether the wet walk of this morning had produced any.  She suspected that it had; that it would not have been so resolutely encountered but in full expectation of hearing from someone very dear, and that it had not been in vain.  She thought there was an air of greater happiness than usual__a glow both of complexion and spirits.

She could have made an inquiry or two, as to the expedition and the expense of the Irish mails; it was at her tongue's end__but she abstained.  She was quite determined not to utter a word that should hurt Jane Fairfax's feelings; and they followed the other ladies out of the room, arm-in-arm, with an appearance of good-will highly becoming to the beauty and grace of each.

pg. 503  "Colonel and Mrs. Campbell are to be in town again by Midsummer,"  said Jane.  I must spend some time with them; I am sure they will want it; afterwards I may probably be glad to dispose of myself.  But I would not wish you to take the trouble of making any inquiries at present."

When you speak of the vicar's wife, is it standard this person has the place to try to tell the townspeople how to live since she is indeed the wife of the vicar?  Or is Mrs. Elton overstepping her place?  Mr. Elton the vicar, has gone off and found the first girl who would have him, his character is in question, and his new wife sure does not seem to have high ratings especially by her attitude and behavior so far, so how does one respect, and allow this woman, tell them how to live?

I stopped to give what Mr. Woodhouse says a bit of pondering:

"Yes; but a young lady__a bride__ I ought to have paid my respects to her if possible.  It was deficient."

"But dear papa, you are no friend to matrimony; and therefore why should you be so anxious to pay your respects to a bride?  It ought to be no recommendation to you.  It is encouraging people to marry if you make so much of them."

"No, my dear, I never encouraged anybody to marry, but I would always wish to pay every proper attention to a lady__and a bride especially is never to be neglected.  More is avowedly due to her[/i].  A bride, you know, my dear, is always the first in company, let the other be who they may."

"Well, papa, if this is not encouragement to marry I do not know what it is.  And I should never have expected you to be lending your sanction to such vanity-baits for poor young ladies."

"My dear, you do not understand me.  This is a matter of mere common politeness and good-breeding, and has nothing to do with any encouragement to people to marry."

Emma had done.  Her father was growing nervous, and could not understand her.  Her mind returned to Mrs. Elton's offenses and long, very long, did they occupy her.

Even though Mr. Woodhouse is so against young people marrying, I am with Emma, I do feel his words say differently.  I understand his stance on the proper attention to congratulate the newly married couple, but his ending statement sure makes a young girl wonder if being a bride is more important......  "A bride, you know, my dear, is always the first in company, let the other be who they may."



 

[bellamarie]

JoanK.,   Wow!  A houseful of relatives of all ages, now that truly sounds exciting to me.  I love it when my grandkids spend the night, and I especially love when both my sons families, and my hubby and I, all go to the water park/hotel for a weekend getaway.  We all end up in one big room, lounging around, laying in one big huge bed, and just enjoying each other's company.  I cherish those times with family.

Maybe it's time to back away from the plot a minute and look at the detailed picture Austen gives us of everyday life for the privileged in a small town. What has changed and what hasn't? Are the conversations less predictable now? Do we recognize any of these characters as people we know?

Oh indeed we do know people like this, and I fear there could be those, who could also see us like this, depending on their places and feelings in our church/community.

My hubby and I were just speaking on this subject the other day.  We have lived in this community and gone to the same church since 1977.  I have taught CCD classes, worked in the parish/school, been best friends with the Pastor and Associate Pastor who was a nun and my best friend.  We have been extremely involved throughout the years in all church activities, and school functions, from me being a Brownie leader when my daughter was young, to coaching the cheerleading squad, and my hubby has been either a head coach or assistant coach throughout these years, and is now helping our sons, who are head coaches for the sports at the school.  

But....in saying this, I know there are families, that see ours as the ones over involved, we too have had to deal with families that appear to have more money, more status, and do not want to show us respect for all the work and time we put in.  Their income seems to give them the idea, they do not have to put in the volunteer time, and yet expect their children to be treated better, and given more playtime in sports, than other children.  So, I suppose the point I am making is.....no matter which situation, or position you hold in your community/church, there is always going to be those who do, and those who feel their money or status trumps everything.  My hubby at the age of sixty-five felt the stinging of being snubbed in the church golf league, by a new younger guy, and not shown respect for being a member, just recently.  I told him, this is always going to happen, no matter where you live.  Just shake it off, and let it go.  

Halycon,  

Not good to live on the other side of the tracks.

This is so interesting you mentioned this.  I am from a very small rural town.  The railroad tracks were truly a dividing line of poverty vs. status quo. Where I lived was a long country road, with the railroad tracks just across my road. We would lay across our beds many a nights and days, and look out the window, and wave to the conductor of the trains that went by.  Oh did the trains drive me nuts when I wanted to sleep.  We knew we were poor, and realized there was a better society of people when we went to school, and saw the kids in our classrooms.   I wrote a small story about my childhood, with a line diagonal through the cover of the book, and the title is, "Crossing Over the Line."  The gist of my story is about growing up rural and poor, meeting my hubby and marrying him, moving to a city, living in a modest nice church/community.  We are far from wealthy, but are rich in the people we know, and the family we have.

Halycon, My siblings and I also played on the railroad tracks, for some reason they made up a song or knew from some place and decided to tease me with it, and tag me with the nickname Memo.  To this day my sisters will laugh and call me Memo.  The song went like this...

Memo, Memo, broke her toe, on the way to Mexico
On the way back, she broke her back
Sliding down the railroad tracks.

[Halcyon]

Memo, that's a great little ditty. Even though I live miles from the traks now, I can hear still hear the trains when the weather is just right. I love the sound. Makes me think of all the travellers and the places they're going to. Whenever I get the chance I travel by rail. We even travelled by train cross country in a sleeper when was son was young. Such fun.

[bellamarie]

I do love the sound of trains as well.  But, I have never traveled on them.  I have a huge fear because my Daddy was killed by a train when I was only two years old.  He and a group of men, who worked for the railroad company in our small town, were in a pickup truck, some in the front and others in the back, and the train struck the truck and some were killed, others maimed or badly injured.  I don't know the entire story, but I think the truck stalled out on the tracks, as the train was coming. 

[PatH]

Goodness.  I'm not sure I'd love the sound of trains after that.

It's funny how people manage to find some basis for feeling they are better than others.  As JoanK points out, in Austen's time they were running scared; the landed class was afraid of losing power, money and influence to the "upstarts".

[Jonathan]

You have our sincere condolencies, Bellamarie, even though it happened so many years ago.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh my - that is an empty spot you have been living with - sorry Bellamarie

PatH from other reading I understand the reason they were running scared in the early nineteenth century was because of the French Revolution that they did not want that experience to hop over the channel and it was thought cementing in place the ship shape exactness of protocol, manners and place would be their shield.

That concept has influenced me while reading this to see Mr. Knightly as protecting Emma, who is more inclined toward a looser behavior that probably resembles the community relationship between family, friends and neighbors in the earlier eighteenth century. For example, I just do not see a Moll Flanders being published at this time and getting much traction.

[Halcyon]

I'm so sorry Bellamarie. Your fear of train travel is certainly understandable.

[PatH]

For example, I just do not see a Moll Flanders being published at this time and getting much traction.

Goodness, it's been decades since I read Moll Flanders.  It's a far cry from Robinson Crusoe, the other book of Defoe's that's still read.  I presume you're referring to the fact that Moll, who was born in Newgate Prison and starts out as a servant, marries into the gentry.  That doesn't last, and Moll has her ups and downs, eventually going to jail and being transported to the Colonies (Virginia) and ending up prosperous and respectable.  The subtitle of the book gives a good summary:

The Fortunes and Misfortunes of the Famous Moll Flanders, &c. Who was Born in Newgate, and during a Life of continu'd Variety for Threescore Years, besides her Childhood, was Twelve Year a Whore, five times a Wife (whereof once to her own Brother), Twelve Year a Thief, Eight Year a Transported Felon in Virginia, at last grew Rich, liv'd Honest, and died a Penitent. Written from her own Memorandums.

I don't know if Austen read the book, but I'm sure she wouldn't have approved of the immorality, and Moll's lighthearted approach to it.  Like many, Moll finally got her chance in Virginia, when she could start over.  We have truly been the land of second chances.

[BarbStAubrey]

I am trying to put my finger on it and what I see is, those authors who were born in the preceding century and publishing in the early part of the nineteenth century, were narrow in their character and plot without including a second chance as a solution for their characters. There is Blake, Burns, Coleridge, Shelly and Wordsworth - it is not till mid century and later when we get to Wilde and Dickens or even the Bronte's that we see characters with a seamy side or born into a lower class as an acceptable character in the storyline - there is less rigid behavior where as, when Jane Austen was writing in addition, to stories about this period, everyone is in their proper place with duty to society at the core as well as, fear of what can be brought by an unknown. The second chances during this time seems to be when someone or a family is raised out of a temporary poverty by someone in a high position. The mannerisms of the poor are not as acceptable as they are later when Elizabeth Gaskill and Dickens tell stories.

[Jonathan]

'Mr. Knightly is a magistrate...

Maybe that explains his tendency to be judgmental.'

You're right, Pat, in seeing Mr. Knightley as judgmental, and no doubt his experience as magistrate made him a good judge of character, but I see hm becoming the jealous lover and jealousy is affecting his opinions and his judgment.

I'm so caught up in this tale that I've become oblivious to its place in English literature. I can see the hilarity of contrasting Emma Woodhouse and Moll Flanders as heroines. I like to think that Austen read the Defoe book written a hundred years earlier, just as she must have read The Vicar of Wakefield. There was a wider world out there, but it's amazing how much of lovable, rollicking and perverse human nature Austen got into her prim and proper tales.

Interesting quotes again, Bellamarie. Isn't Emma curious about whose letter Jane is expecting, running out into the rain to fetch it herself. And who writes the best letters? We learned that early on didn't we. And sure enough we find Frank Churchill writing letters  farther along in this chapter.

Don't you think Mr. Woodhouse has got himself into trouble by making brides look attractive. Until now all we have heard him say about married women is 'Poor Mrs So-and-So., And why is that? He's afraid of losing Emma. But his social obligation has clicked in...and Emma does not understand...or does she?

But let's give class structure and church hierarchies a whirl. By the way,  there was no railway track running throug Highbury. That devisive device was still missing in the English social landscape

[bellamarie]

I think Emma is confused with her father's statement about "a bride is first in company, let the others be who they may."

She questions his contradictory remarks.  Even though it is customary, and the proper etiquette, Emma sees his remark more as praise and glory to the bride, and the last part of his remark seems to be saying, all the others are insignificant.  For someone like Emma, who is used to having her father's attention, approval, and praise, this could cause her to think marriage would bring her into the spotlight, as he has pointed out, a bride's place to be.

When I read this I could not help but think about how young teen Mothers get so much attention, and once the baby arrives it is showered with attention, that sisters and friends tend to think that if they too get pregnant it will achieve the same attention.  I have seen this repeatedly happen with families.

So, considering the fact Emma and Mr. Knightley have seemed to advance a bit in their feelings for each other, and Mr. Woodhouse has praised "the bride," do you suppose this will bring more thought to Emma, about never wanting to marry?

[PatH]

I have a slightly different take on the scene between Emma and her father.  It was indeed customary to make a big fuss over brides and put them first--to visit them promptly, give them precedence over others in the order of going in, etc.  Mr. Woodhouse is polite and proper, and feels guilty for not doing what he knows is his duty.  Emma is trying to tease him into feeling better, by pointing out the inconsistency, and trying to get him to laugh.  It doesn't work, but it shows her affection for him.

[bellamarie]

That's interesting PatH., I never saw Emma trying to humor Mr. Woodhouse, although she did not want him to feel bad for not coming sooner.  The paragraphs directly before this conversation is about Emma being very angry, and not liking Mrs. Elton, so I sense she was not in a very humorous mood, hearing her father give Mrs. Elton, "the bride," all this praise and attention.

pg. 493 Happily it was time to be gone.  They were off, and Emma could breathe.  "Insufferable woman!"  was her immediate exclamation.  "Worse than I had supposed.  Absolutely insufferable!  Knightley!  I could not have believed it.  Knightley!  never seen him in her life before and call him Knightley!  and discover that he is a gentleman.  A little upstart, vulgar being, with her Mr. E.  and her caro sposo, and her resources, and all her air of pert pretension and underbred finery.  Actually to discover that Mr. Knightley is a gentleman!  I doubt whether he will return the compliment, and discover her to be a lady.  I could not have believed it!  And to propose that she and I should unite to form a musical club!  One would fancy we were bosom friends!  And Mrs. Weston!  Astonished that the person who had brought me up should be a gentlewoman!  Worse and worse!  I never met with her equal.  Much beyond my hopes!  Harriet is a disgraced by any comparison.  Oh! what would Frank Churchill say to her if he were here?  How angry and how diverted he would be.

All this ran so glibly through her thoughts, that by the time her father had arranged himself, after the bustle of the Elton's departure, and was ready to speak, she was very tolerably capable of attending.

So, the ball is over, and Emma is so very happy the next morning, thinking of dancing with Mr. Knightley, when all of a sudden in comes Frank Churchill and Harriet, with the story of the gipsies assailing poor Harriet.  And who comes to her rescue, but none other than Frank Churchill!  Emma sees him as Harriet's knight and shining armor, to the rescue.  Well, that fits perfectly in the match ups!

Are we ready to move on to the next chapters?  I can barely wait to see what happens next.   

[PatH]

I'll consult with the boss, if I can tear her away from my grandchildren.  Where is everybody?  Are you ready to read more?

[bellamarie]

That is so cute that JoanK., is busy with your grandkids, PatH.      I will wait to hear what the boss has to say. 

[Halcyon]

I'm ready to move on.

[JoanK]

The boss is ready to move on. The tide of people has washed in a different direction for a few hours, so let me see where the next break should be.

By the way, PatH's grandchildren, (my great nephew 6 and great niece 3) are indeed GREAT. My three grandsons, who are older, have adopted them, and are showing them a great time. Pat may not get them back!

[JoanK]

Let's do a short read: through Chapter IX. This includes the picnic at Box Hill. we won't stay on it long.

[bellamarie]

Thanks JoanK., for taking some time out to give us some more chapters.  Sounds like you are in Seventh Heaven!

[Jonathan]

pg. 493 'Happily it was time to be gone.  They were off, and Emma could breathe.  "Insufferable woman!"  was her immediate exclamation.  "Worse than I had supposed.  Absolutely insufferable!'

Another wonderful quote, Bellamarie. That's the sort of thing we've come to expect from Emma. Her conclusion came after a  visit that lasted all of fifteen minutes. What a rush to judgment! Isn't she a control freak. Even the author seems mesmerized by her character, judging by the lopsided narrative. And she claimed to like her!

We're all envious of the fun you're having, Joan.

[PatH]

While we're all eagerly reading to find out what twists and turns Austen's characters will take next, I'd like to comment further on JoanK's earlier questions.  One thing that certainly hasn't changed in villages, or other small contained groups of people, is the gossip.  No one can do anything in Highbury without it being noticed, and the news spreads like wildfire.  Anyone who wants to live a life that doesn't fit in to the rules of behavior (extravagant, indolent, ill-mannered, snooty, or worse) is asking for trouble.

[bellamarie]

PatH.,  You could not have chosen a better time to post your comment:

One thing that certainly hasn't changed in villages, or other small contained groups of people, is the gossip.  No one can do anything in Highbury without it being noticed, and the news spreads like wildfire.  Anyone who wants to live a life that doesn't fit in to the rules of behavior (extravagant, indolent, ill-mannered, snooty, or worse) is asking for trouble.

It was a short read, and I have to say, I am typing through tears of disappointment.  For you who have read Emma, before, or have read ahead,  I can see where your comments, and feelings have been coming from.  I just never understood, until now.  

I, like Mr. Knightley, loves Emma.  But at this point, I am appalled at her behavior.  I will not go any further, until I see others have completed these next chapters.  By then, I may have collected my thoughts, and feelings, enough to express some of my suspicions as to what, and why, things took place in these chapters.

Jonathan,  I still have not changed my views on Mr. and Mrs. Elton.  Only if, or until, she shows me better, I still stand by not wishing to be friends with her, and agree with Emma choosing not to as well.  She still remains an insufferable woman to me.

For now, I shall leave to sit in sadness, and dismay.  

Thank goodness March Madness is on tonight, and I can get involved in rooting for my hubby's basketball teams to win, since he is in 1st place in our brackets.  I need a distraction, about now.

[PatH]

Hang in there, Bellamarie, it isn't over until it's over.