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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
Starting March 1! Everyone is invited!
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bookthief/bookthiefcvr3.jpg) | "Fortunately, this book isn't about Death; it's about death, and so much else."
"Some will argue that a book so difficult and sad may not be appropriate for teenage readers. "The Book Thief" was published for adults in Zusak's native Australia, and I strongly suspect it was written for adults. Many teenagers will find the story too slow to get going, which is a fair criticism. But it's the kind of book that can be life-changing, because without ever denying the essential amorality and randomness of the natural order, "The Book Thief" offers us a believable, hard-won hope.
The Book Thief is a complicated story of survival that will encourage its readers to think." (Bookmarks Magazine)
"How can a tale told by Death be mistaken for young-adult storytelling? Easily: because this book's narrator is sorry for what he has to do. The youthful sensibility of "The Book Thief" also contributes to a wider innocence. While it is set in Germany during World War II and is not immune to bloodshed, most of this story is figurative: it unfolds as symbolic or metaphorical abstraction.
"The Book Thief" will be widely read and admired because it tells a story in which books become treasures. And because there's no arguing with a sentiment like that." (New York Times)
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1-2 ~ Prologue
March 3-7 ~ Part I & II
March 8-14 ~ Part III & IV
March 15-21 ~ Part V &VI
March 22-28 ~ Part VII & VIII
March 29-April 4 ~ Part IX & X
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Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Andy (mailto:WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM)
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At last! Do you remember many months ago when we had a vote - so many titles to choose from - for upcoming discussions? Markus Zusak's The Book Thief was an overwhelming favorite amongst the many SeniorLearners who voted - tied with Dickens' Mystery of Edwin Drood, remember? Did you vote for it?
At the time, I didn't know much about the book - honestly believed it was for young people, since that is how it has been marketed in the US. It was a surprise to learn that the Aussie author, Zusak wrote the book for adults. Those adults who have read it, put this book in the "life-changing" category.
Hopefully you will be able to pick up a copy and join us here in March. Andy and I look forward to your participation.
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I have to find my eloquent ( ::) ) post that I wrote the night I finished reading this book. Truly, it is the best story I have read in a long time. It is captivating and this writer is brilliant in his execution of this narrative during a tragic time in our history. The number of deaths in Germany in the 1930's can not make for easy language but Zusak has accomplished it with this tale that totally mesmerized me.
I have had it with "coming of age" stories and wanted to blow this one off. I am so pleased that I did not let that fact dissuade me from joining in with JoanP to discuss this wonderful piece of literature.
There is meat here.
There is tragedy and adversity that is riddled with love, hope and compassion. As nazi Germany and death march through every page, we stay tethered to a young girls wily and cunning survival- doing what she can do to lessen the burden.
Our narrator is death but you become fond of this 'grim reaper" as he struggles to complte his assignments with tenderness and affection.
Please come join us for a delicate, warm account of a young girls perseverence riddled with carefully crafted storytelling.
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I refuse to lend a book that I will be co-leading so I bought 3 additional copies to give as Christmas gifts. That is how strongly I feel that each generation can be affected by this story.
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Yes, I'd like to join you for the March discussion.
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Please count me in. WWII made more of an impact on me, than any other period of time, during my lifetime.
Sheila
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Please count on me for this discussion. I read the book over a year ago, thought it was excellent and am looking forward to reading it again (once I get it back from my sister).
Sally
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Oh look, look- here we are.
Welcome - Sally , oh yes by all means go fetch your book - ASAP. ::)
There are so many facets to this story, not only the impact of WWII as Sheila has mentioned but the whole concept of love and hope in the most desperate of times. Who of us (or is it whom of us) has not despaired, suffered adversity or affliction of some type?
The thing I loved the best about this story was the Zusak's method of describing it. I got all hung up while reading the story about his use of "colors." He used colors to describe people, situations and emotions. It was brilliant. I secretly fear that when I reread it it will not have the same impact on me. OR it could be twice as good, we will see.
Welcome as well to countryman- daily we will watch for more and more folks dropping by. I am excited about this one and JoanP (my very own slave driver) will be in soon. she's off having fun with the grandbabies for a few more days.
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Hi! I'd like to join you for this discussion. I have had the book for several years but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, despite having heard many wonderful reviews. I'll be glad to be back with you all for a discussion. It's been awhile.
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Laura welcome! Grab your book and get started.
He (death, our narrator) is as weary as many Germans became during Hitler's insane rule, as he moves on collecting all of the souls. Our grim reaper is believable and has a heart of gold.
Each and every page of this story is filled with images and provocative prose as HIS path crosses with that of our young heroine many times during those terrifying years.
I am so happy to hear that you'll be joining us fpr this story.
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Count me in.
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Oh wow! The prediscussion has started already. I am here. The book is here ready to be read.
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And none to soon, Frybabe! Have you looked at the book yet? 550 pages! But I hear it is a page-turner. I haven't read it yet - but will take the word from those who voted that we discuss it - who have read it. Especially, our Andy who has been enthusiastic about this book from the start.
My little grands are all back in school...much to the relief of their exhausted parents, who are eager to get the house back in order - they plan to put it on the market in March, so they are eager to "declutter" and fix up the place for the "staging" - not an easy task with four little ones under the age of eight - underfoot!
They did give me a copy of "The Book Thief" as a gift, I'm happy to say. Will get reading as soon as I make some headway with Kipling's "Kim."
I think a discussion schedule would help, don't you? - We'll get that up soon.
It's really great to see familiar friends checking in here. Laura, you have been missed! It is wonderful to have you back with us again. Will look forward to your Monday morning posts>
Hope your new year is off to a good great start! I'm curious to know how you are referring to 2010 - "two thousand ten" - "twenty ten" - or "o-ten." So far I'm noticing that what you call it is regional. I find it fascinating...
Happy 2010 everyone - no matter what you call it!
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I CALL IT-
"WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO 2009?"
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The most i can say about 2009? Thanks be it is over.
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I will 2nd that sentiment Jackie. It was the worst in the past 30 decades, IMO.
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I read The Book Thief early last year with my f2f book group. It is a long book but it will hold your interest with every page.
I'd like to join this discussion and read what people think about the story. I may even reread it, since I forget so much once I close a book for good.
I, too, am so glad 2009 is over. I really believe 2010 will be much better for everyone.
Nancy
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Well, so far 2010 isn't doing well.
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Wonderful Nancy (Aberlaine), wwe will be so hPpy to have you join us in the discussion of this book. I loved it and am just starting to reread it as we speak.
Cheer up, MrsSherlock, January is almost over and February will start "the best of the year" for you. :D
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This is my first time to read Book Thief - but am hearing good things about it from EVERYONE. Rave notices - "best book of the decade"...
Am finishing up with Kim - and just getting into Bruce Feiler's America's Prophet - and Jane Austen's Emma. Did you know that PBS is airing a new Emma starting Sunday night? And giving away copies of the book to the first ten who speak up for it. See the PBS discussion here - or email me and I'll send you one.
- Have just finished the Book Thief's Prologue and am hooked after listening to the narrator, Death - quite a personable fellow. Have been thinking all day about what death will be like - and it isn't at all frightening...
Don't want to say too much - but I can't wait for this discussion to begin. So eager to hear your thoughts on the subject!
Welcome, welcome everyone of you. Get your hands on the book now! It's a long book...but moves quickly. I think it will take us more than a month to discuss it.
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I think I've had enough of death. the earthquake has given him over 200/000 souls already..
I have the sample on Kindle and I'll look at it, but . . . .
claire
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Claire, I'm glad you are going to take a look at it - I think you'll be surprised. Just the Prolgue...very very different, not what you would expect.
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Claire, please give The Book Thief a chance. It was one of the best books I read last year. I recommended it to my ftf book group, but they didn't vote for it. It is a hard book to describe and is not as much a "downer" as it sounds. I had it on my tbr shelf for months before finally picking it up. Once I started, I was really hooked.
Sally
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Hi All,
The book description in the Book Bytes was so intriguing, I got it from the library. I haven't joined a discussion for a long time; I've gotten so busy since I moved to CA. But I'm hoping to find time to read "Book Thief" and join in or at least follow your posts. I do see a couple of familiar names here--JoanP and MrsSherlock.
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Hi Horselover, welcome!
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Horselover, it is so good to see you here this morning! You've been missed! Have you started The Book Thief yet? I just cannot get over the writing, the descriptions, the metaphor.
I'd like to echo Frybabe's welcome!!!
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Horse lover- Welcome! Welcome to our pre-discussion of the Book Thief.
I know that I have a tendency to ramble and rant (just a tad) BUT I keep trying to push this book on everyone that I meet. It is truly one of a kind and I was blown away by this guy's writing style. It flows with movement and beauty, even at its ugliest.
Each character becomes someone that you recognize- including our narrator -the grim reaper! We are happy that you have found your way back to us. We understand in life that there is plenty of chores and obligations making it difficult to get in here and read/discuss a book but you will not be disappointed with this story.
Now we've just to get winsumm to believe in us. :o
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I will be joining this discussion. Well I will be reading along and probably just lurking to see what you all have to say. This book sounds like it is one that I want to read.
Joan Grimes
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Great Joan. Be aware when you start reading it, you get sucked right in to his prose.
Welcome!
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Thanks for the Welcome Alf.
Joan Grimes
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Alf: Our narrator is death but you become fond of this 'grim reaper"
Even before I read Alf's above comment--while I was reading the heading, in fact--I thought to myself, "Death has already endeared himself to me by description."
I hope I can make it through this one. It sounds like a book that 'everyone' would profit from reading.
aliki (a.k.a. alliemae from "My Name is Red" days)
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Allimae- Welcome to our discussion (pre). One becomes fond of this grim reaper in The Book Thief. He has a kind, benevolent spirit which he demonstrates.
It certainly is not the way that we mere mortals face the topic of death, but the guy is just doing his job. Death alone can kill hope it has been said but let's face it, it is as natural as living.
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Aliki, Joan - echoing Andy's welcome - {{{welcome}}}}
I agree with you, Aliki, this book promises to make a difference in the way we view death - and life too.
Andy - that's an interesting assumption - that the grim (or not so grim) reaper is a "he"
Let's keep eyes open to see if author Zusak intends to portray "him" this way. ;)
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dUH jOAN- It couldn't possibly be a woman having to complete such a task now could it? ;D
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JoanP:
Andy - that's an interesting assumption - that the grim (or not so grim) reaper is a "he"
JoanP--funny you should notice that. When I was posting I was trying to decide whether it would be more correct to say her/him or wait till we read the book...and by the description of 'Death' in the heading, wasn't willing to write it as an 'It'...
p.s. who is Andy?
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Andy - ;)
Aliki - I do see that "he" in the heading - perhaps it is a clue. Or maybe Zusak has avoided revealing the gender - let's read carefully to see how he/she is portrayed in the opening chapters...
Who is Andy?
A good question for newcomers -especially for newcomers here. She will be the co-leader of this discussion. Our long-time discussion leader, Andrea, known to many as Andy goes by the username of Alf - her initials - ALF - and for some reason has added 43 after her name. Perhaps there are 43 other Alfs registered in SeniorLearn? Or maybe it is her AGE?
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Thanks for the welcome! I haven't begun reading yet, but do have the book. I suppose you have all learned that the "grim reaper" has taken J.D.Salinger at the age of 91. I remember reading "Catcher in the Rye" many years ago and being intrigued by its strange author.
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So sorry that Death has taken JD Salinger. He was one of my favorite writers.
Joan Grimes
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JoanP
Who is Andy?
A good question for newcomers -especially for newcomers here. She will be the co-leader of this discussion. Our long-time discussion leader, Andrea, known to many as Andy goes by the username of Alf - her initials - ALF - and for some reason has added 43 after her name. Perhaps there are 43 other Alfs registered in SeniorLearn? Or maybe it is her AGE?
Thanks, JoanP...I was so wrong!! Ever since I saw the name ALF in the reading groups and ALF's postings I was sure she was a man!! (A genius man, to be sure,) and never even heard of an Andy!! Oh dear...don't you just love blind communications!
JoanGrimes: So sorry that Death has taken JD Salinger. He was one of my favorite writers.
I felt sorry too JoanG...I think he and Veblen [sp] were the first authors I remember from my mid- and older teen years.
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Aliki, Andrea Lynn can hold her own with the best of them, male or female. Your mistake is understandable. ;) http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1038.0
We don't want to start the prediscussion too early - let's aim for mid month. We don't want to burn out. Since this is quite a hefty book, it would be a good idea for you begin to read the opening chapters before we begin the discussion on March 1. The first week we will be discussing the Prologue on March 1 & 2 - and then Parts I and II between March 3-7. Does that sound okay?
Of course you can always refer to early chapters during the discussion, but we ask that you do not reveal what you have read in later chapters out of consideration for those who are reading as we go.
This is such a special story - and yet I find that I am so engrossed in the writing, the story almost becomes secondary.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
The Book Thief - Coming March 1!
PREDISCUSSION Now!
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bookthief/bookthiefcvr3.jpg) | "Fortunately, this book isn't about Death; it's about death, and so much else."
"Some will argue that a book so difficult and sad may not be appropriate for teenage readers. "The Book Thief" was published for adults in Zusak's native Australia, and I strongly suspect it was written for adults. Many teenagers will find the story too slow to get going, which is a fair criticism. But it's the kind of book that can be life-changing, because without ever denying the essential amorality and randomness of the natural order, "The Book Thief" offers us a believable, hard-won hope.
The Book Thief is a complicated story of survival that will encourage its readers to think." (Bookmarks Magazine)
"How can a tale told by Death be mistaken for young-adult storytelling? Easily: because this book's narrator is sorry for what he has to do. The youthful sensibility of "The Book Thief" also contributes to a wider innocence. While it is set in Germany during World War II and is not immune to bloodshed, most of this story is figurative: it unfolds as symbolic or metaphorical abstraction.
"The Book Thief" will be widely read and admired because it tells a story in which books become treasures. And because there's no arguing with a sentiment like that." (New York Times)
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1-2 ~ Prologue
March 3-7 ~ Part I & II
March 8-14 ~ Part III & IV
March 15-21 ~ Part V &VI
March 22-28 ~ Part VII & VIII
March 29-April 4 ~ Part IX & X
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Some Questions for Your Consideration
1. What information can you find about the author, Markus Zusak? Where and when was he born? What drew him to the subject of Munich and life in Nazi Germany at the start of the second world war, years before he was born? What had he written before The Book Thief?
2. To your knowledge, did most of the German people share the same sense of hope, security and trust in Adolf Hitler under his presidency and Nazi rule in the 1930's?
3. What do you know of the spread of communism within Germany at this time?
Relevant Links ~ A Brief History of Germany Rule (http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/de.htm)
Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Andy (mailto:WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM)
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Hi ALF, I'm pleased to meet you too and am touched by your response! Yes, thanks to JoanP subject duly clarified! :D
Whether in jest or not, my sister was an astrologer and a reincarnationist and truly believed we can all change how we come back in our next life by meditating on it--just keep that in mind!
I have three choices but still weighing them against all the many choices available...
aliki (a.k.a. alliemae, in previous discussions), and my nickname, Justa...meaning Justa whatever/whoever I want to be at the moment!! ;) ;D
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Hi Everyone,
Haven't been able to read the last few books, but I'm going to give the Book Thief a try. You all make it sounds like a great read.
Lee
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Sorry Andy - went to elementary school with a Lynn Flannery - which explains why I messed up your name. Andrea Lee - that's almost as pretty a name as Andrea Lynn - :D
And speaking of Lee - Welcome back, Lee! We look forward to having you join us. This book is a real winner.
Also, you should know that we are now taking nominations for spring group discussion titles - We'll vote in two weeks - do drop in the Suggestion Box (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg57822#new) and see what's going on right now...
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Lee, Lynn- whatever. Here we all are. I am so-o-o-o looking forward to this discussion. Truly, it grabbed me from the first page and held my interest. Welcome back Lee, we are delighted that you are going to join in.
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This is a wonderful book and I will be happy to join the discussion. Although I read it once, the chance to reread and discuss it with others makes me happy.
What comes to mind is Emily Dickinson's poem:
There is no frigate like a book
To take us lands away.
Nor any courser like a page
Of prancing poetry.
This traverse may the poorest take
Without oppress or toll.
How frugal is the chariot
That bears a human soul.
For me this book carries a human soul.
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It is so good to see your face this morning, Jude~ Welcome! I agree, this book, has soul. It is poetry.
Again, welcome!
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I fear that our "fearLESS" leader Joan is attempting to dig her way out of the snow that has piled up along the east coast. I am quite anxious to get this discussion started as I would like to maintain interest. If you are anything like me, you are off and running to find something else interesting. I beg of you- do not lose patience (as I do) but hang in here with us until we begin this challenging best seller. Do any of you remember the first book that you loved or found when you were young Liesel's age?
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There are a lot of us digging out. It took me three days to dig out last week. I am NOT looking forward to this AT ALL. Looks like I will miss at least another two days of work. Every time I clear the side walk and driveway the snow plows plow me back in. I am on a state snow emergency route. The state drivers don't care too much about whether they plow people back in. The township crews, the few times they help out on the state road, are much more mindful of it. I hate having to reshovel two and three times especially since I can only do a little at a time.
In the meantime, I am trudging through one of the Mrs. Murphy cat mysteries. I say trudging because it is a bit boring. This is the first one I haven't cared for. Even so, it seems to be picking up a bit now after close to 100pages. I have not started The Book Thief yet.
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Well, Frybaby, if you get bored pick up The Book Thief. It will keep you company until the thaw. I loved it and couldn't put it down. ;D
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It's wonderful that so many are already enlisted for the discussion of this book. I was reluctant to read it at first, because of some of the descriptions I'd read about it on the Internet. I'm so glad that I gave it a chance. The book is difficult to describe. It's very imaginative and moving and ultimately uplifting, I think. I'll be glad to re-read and talk about it with you all.
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Hi, Andy - I'm looking forward to the discussion of this book. All the enthusiastic recommendations prompted me to borrow it from the library and start reading it. I think it's wonderful! I don't want to read it all before the discussion begins but I do hate to stop a quarter of the way through!! Not only that, but the book is due back at the libe on March 3 - hope they will renew it! This may be the book that makes me break my vow about not buying any more new books until I make some sort of a dent in the huge pile of unread books that threaten to overwhelm me!!!!
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That's great, Marcie and JoanR - so glad to have you join us. You're so right, Marcie, the book is an unexpected delight - not at all what I expected either - I think what surprised me most was that the book was written by one so young. His writing is lyrical - poetry, don't you think?
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Marcie AND Joan- well we blessed now with two of my favorite discussion ladies. You bring so much to the table, both of you and I am happy that you will be joining Joan and me.
Joan, I bought the paperback and it only cost me 11 bucks. I was so happy to buy it so I can mark in it. I started it at my sons house in New Mexico, over the Thanksgiving holiday and was reading it while making stuffing for our turkey. I haven't done that in a long while but I did not want to put it down.
1939 Germany was not a carefree, untroubled area in our history and I know that fact alone dissuades folks from reading this novel. It is too bad because it is astonishing what the author has done to capture this era through the eyes of an innocent.
Welcome to you both.
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I am going to my sister's for the week-end and will pick up my copy of the book then. I read it over a year ago, so I really need to refresh my memory. I thought it was an excellent book and did not understand why it was classified as youth fiction. I am eager for the discussion.
Sally
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I have started reading this book and I find it lyrical. I don't want to put it down. The writing is beautiful and the story is fascinating.
Joan Grimes
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Well said Joan.
Welcome back salan- read on.
I know what you mean, I read it 3 months ago and had to reacquaint myself with the story.
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Still reading. I cannot put this book down.
Joan Grimes
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Out of curiosity - what was it that made you decide to pick up this book? Is it what you were expecting? Why can't you put it down? Is it the author's expression, or the story itself?
We have such a fine, diverse group of participants coming together for this discussion. Two more weeks? Do you think it is too early to look into the author's background - or the setting for his story? Right now, we know that he is a young man, an Australian - in his 30's (early 30's?) - and yet he is capable of expressing himself - in such a "lyrical" manner as some of you have described his style. It must be something he was born with. Born in Australia? Why did he choose this setting - Munich, years before he was born?
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Not sure that I care about the author's background. However I do know that his mother was from Munich or that area. There is quite a bit about him and his background on Amazon. Anyone interested in that can go there and read it. I am very interested in learning all that I can about what, other than pure unadulterated fear , motivated the German people to follow Adolf Hitler. Looking at that it seems that is one of the reasons that I decided to read this book. When I discovered that the narrator was death that was another thing that grabbed my attention. Now I am very interrested in the growth and development of the Book thief . Just lots of things about this book to grab and hold my interest.
Don't know how much of this we should go into this early. You are the experienced one in that kind of thing.
Oh on the communist issue in Germany at that time...communism was an issue all over Europe at that time. The communists were fighting against the facists everywhere. Hitler had supported the facist in the Spanish Civil war and supplied Franco the Spanish Fascist leader in Spain with planes , etc for fighting the communist rebels in Spain. The well known French Resistance was mostly communist. So it only stands to reason that the Germans had the communists who were resisting Adolph Hitler. I am sorry my spelling and typing leave a lot to be desired here. I am having a hard time typing this.
Joan Grimes
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Thanks, Joan. I too am curious about the German people duirng the 30's - and why they followed Hitler, elected him to the Presidency. Was it fear? Did it start out that way?
Thank you too for addressing the question of communism in Germany. I can understand if Hitler opposed the presence of communism in Germany, then he would go to extremes "to eliminate" them. I'm not sure how he accomplished that. Did he simply expel Communists from Germany?
I agree with you, it is a bit early to go into the book itself - we need to wait a bit until others have had a chance to read the opening chapters. But we can use this time to get to know one another - and to become familiar with the setting and also with this heretofore unknown author - from the "antipodes."
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JoanP: unknown author from the antipodes - I heard that :)
I don't know much about the period when Hitler came to power but I have the impression that the German people elected Hitler because he offered the general populace a way out of unemployment and poverty with his building programmes. And they found him charismatic. Seems a combination hard to beat. By the time he was in power and had got his vision started his ruthless methods became obvious and the fear kicked in.
From memory - haha -I believe it was Marcos Zusak's grandparents who came to Australia as 'displaced persons' after the war, liked what they found and settled here. I think his parents were both born in Aust. or at least raised here. Marcos is an Aussie boy and loves all the things that are good about this country - sun, sand, sea and surfing. He seems to be a rather well rounded young man with interests in many areas.
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I have the book from the library - going to follow your posts.
Interestingly - all the books in my lib system are in the teen fiction. It even says
in book reviews he wrote it for adults!!!!!
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Have been trying to post here for hours this morning.I am dealing with low blood sugar this morning and just needed to get that taken care of first or I would have been here in my house alone on the floor. I stated before I do not care anything about this author. What I posted about his mother being from the Munich area I found on Amazon in an extra blurb about him. I am going to write my posts in note pad annd then post them here because I am composing all these long posts and having them disspear before I get them posted. The answers to your questions are complicated Joan P. So look for my answers to you later. When my blood sugar gets into a safe range and I have time to post.
Joan Grimes
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There is a very interesting short video of the author talking about his reasons for writing the book, and for writing in general, on his website at http://www.randomhouse.com/features/markuszusak/. It doesn't give away anything of the plot.
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Thank you Marcie for the video URL. I hadn't seen that one before.
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Oh good! Gum is here - and MarjV too! Welcome, both of you!!! This is going to be a fine discussion with so many different interests and viewpoints~
For those of you who don't know Gumtree, like the author, she is posting from Australia and usually posts while many of us are sleeping. It is always such a pleasure to read her posts with breakfast.
Gum, can you tell us if Markus Zusak was well-known in Australia, to you, before the publication of The Book Thief?
Thank you for the link to the Zusak video, Marcie. I hadn't seen that one before either. I did have a little trouble viewing it - but once I successfully loaded Quick Time, I was glad I did. I see that Zusak is the award-winning author of four previous books for young adults and the recipient of a 2006 Printz Honor for excellence in young adult literature.
MarjV, I too think it's interesting that the book is classified as "teen fiction." Did you get the feeling that Zusak himself was somewhat bewildered that his US publisher, Random House, decided to publicize it as a book for Young Adults?
"The Book Thief was published in September 2005 in Australia to wide acclaim, and was positioned as Zusak's adult debut. In the USA, Random House have chosen to publish it as a young-adult novel, which Zusak is comfortable with saying, "For a teenage audience, it's clearly for sophisticated readers. You just hope it gets into the right person's hands, whatever their age". (author's homepage)
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So, we learn that the author's mother grew up in Germany - but he was born in Australia. He grew up hearing stories of what it was like growing up there and decided he just had to write about what he heard. Eyewitness account of history! Secondhand eyewitness account...from a child's point of view. He mentions that his mother's memories go back to the age of six.
I'm interested to hear more about Hitler's "charisma." I suppose he must have been or so many would not have been attracted to him.
"because he offered the general populace a way out of unemployment and poverty with his building programmes." Gum
Well, I can see that people would be attracted to someone who had the power, the vision and the know-how to do that!
Do you think that everyone jumped on his bandwagon? There must have been some who questioned his leadership?
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Here I am, JoanP, Andy, and all participants. It's good to be in your company again.
According to information on the web, Markus's father was Austrian and his mother German, the youngest of four children. Markus was born in Sydney in 1975. That makes him 35 !And all along I had thought of him as much younger!
He has written two other books, one is titled I am the Messenger. According to the video Marcie shared with us, he is working on another book, which would be his third, is that right?
We are give to understand that Markus based the story on the memories and experiences of his mother. Of course, she shared them with her children, and how could she not? That is what I have done with my children. The memories of war, bombing, destruction, uncertainty, hunger are indelible. And they have to be felt; even the most eloquent description is inadequate.
We cannot escape history and must go back, briefly, to WW I.
Until the end of itGermany was a monarchy, its head Kaiser Wilhelm II, Emperor of Germany and King of Prussia. In November of 1918, the war lost, he fled to the Netherlands.
Germany became a parliamentary Republic in 1919. It lasted for 14 revolutionary, tumultous years. In January of 1933 came to power. Fraudulently, it was learned later. Hitler was Austrian.
Yo may ask: Austrian, German, is there a difference? Don't they speak all German?
Yes, there is. And I'll explain tomorrow.
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Traude, I am so glad to see you are here telling us all about this from first hand experience. That means so much more than my trying to tell it from my studying about it all. I am so fascinated by your telling us about all this.
Thank you so much.
Joan Grimes
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I think Zusak's mother was just a young child when the war ended and the family left Germany. If she was say, 35 when she had Markus (the youngest of four) in 1975 she would have been born in 1940 ( or thereabouts). I believe most of the stories he heard originated with his grandparents.
I didn't know much about Zusak before The Book Thief . But he had already written several young adult or children's books which had received prestigious prizes and considerable critical acclaim. The reason The Book Thief was promoted as for younger readers is probably because he was known as a writer for young adults.
He was very hot stuff when Book Thief was first published. Locally it became the choice for our summer Arts Festival's One Book Club. Everybody read it and there were discussions and talks by the dozens in local libraries, book groups etc etc. So he had great exposure here. Haven't heard much about him in the interim.
Traude How wonderful to see you. Hope you are well. I'm looking forward to your contributions to this discussion.
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Oh Traude- I can not thank you enough for agreeing to come into this discussion to share your memories and your thoughts.
With you, we are blessed with firsthand and honest recollections of this tumultuous time. Your input will add a real depth to our discussion. I only hope that it does not become too burdensome for you and if it does we will understand your discomfort and embrace you.
Thank you again.
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Although Hitler was Austrian by birth, he always considered himself a German. Due to the Versailles Treaty, the two countries were not allowed to unite and were protected early on from German occupation by Italy. Once Mussolini withdrew his support and became friendly with Germany, Austria became vulnerable in her wish to remain free.
Hitler threatened to invade and the proposed vote (plebisite) to remain free was withdrawn. Shortly after that, Hitler's military entered Vienna making Austria the first nation to be annexed. The spread and influence of the nazi party began and Hitler's mission to create this "grand Nazi Party" was in full swing.
Don't you think it is important for us to consider how all of this came about before we start our discussion?
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Well Alf, being of the mind that yes, it is important to know something about the background of Nazism I would like to add a few tidbits of info.
If anyone is interested in Hitler as a person and what made him tick, try the chapters in Erik Erikson's "Childhood and Society". Adolph was a severly abused child.
The Nazis, a far right party, presented its 25 point program in 1920. The key elements were: anti -parlatmentism, Pan German racism,Social Darwinism, antisemitism, totalatarism and opposition to any form of liberalism. They claimed that the treaty of Versaille at the end of WW1 , was a Jewish Communist plot to humiliate Germany. The party began in 1919 and Hitler became its head in 1921.
Many branches of the Nazi Party are alive, well and thriving in the USA today. Although they have no political power (as yet)they attract thousands of people, many of them ex-cons. They even have their own singing stars called "Prussian Blue'.
There was some talk of them approaching the TEA party for admission as a group or as individuals.
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Oh good grief Jude-- The Tea Party?
The American Nazi Party (http://www.americannaziparty.com)
If you look at how the neo-nazis in America today slightly twist the beliefs of the typical American society, one can truly learn why these organizations are a real danger to the world.
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Andy,. I agree.
If we want to fully grasp the setting and "atmosphere" of the story, we need to go back to the post-World War One era, step by step, as briefly as possible, and take a good look at the events before Hitler came to power.
First the answer to the rhetorical question I posed last night.
German is a pluricentric language - like English, French, Portuguese, Spanish, and Chinese, among others. The languages so identified are shared indifferent geographic locations..
The written word is the same for all, but the spoken word can and does vary significantly in pronunciation, orthography, sometimes the grammar.
In Austria and in the German-speaking cantons of Switzerland, German is spoken in a different way, which includes specific inflections (very characteristic of the Viennese).
Andy, Germany and Austria-Hungary were empires until the end of WW I and political allies, but not united. The end of the war was the end of both empires and of the reigns of the Hohenzollerns and the Habsburgs.
In Versailles, the maps were redrawn, the territories of Germany and Austro-Hungary redistributed and new autonomous states created, among them Yugoslavia and the former Czechoslovakia.
More to come
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I finished the book. I did not put it down. I finished it! Wonderful poetic Book. I will go back and start from the beginning again now. I will read it again before the discussion starts. I loved it.
JoanGrimes
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Andy, my #75 was in reply to your # 72. I didn't see Jude's # 73 or your # 74 until I came on line a little while ago. Actually, a LONG time ago, because I just timed out twice.
A good chance to check for typos.
In Germany the possession of Nazi paraphernalia is illegal; anyone who violates the law faces severe penalties. How very sad then, how unfortunate, that there is said to a high a demand for these things in this country!! Who might the suppliers be?
I don't remember who told us, but in the mid- fifties when we lived in our first house in North Arlington, Virginia, we heard of a man who openly displayed just such stuff. We were incredulous but decided to check it out. It was within walking distance.
On a lovely summer afternoon we walked by the house ... and saw through the large open picture window a huge Nazi flag that covered the whole wall. We could not believe our eyes. We were aghast. My stomach turned. I felt as if I had been hit. We hurried home.
We never went back. We told no one. I do not recollect the man's name or the street he lived on.
Question 3.
A large number of political parties existed in the German Empire since 1830: liberals and radicals, centrists and rightists -- none ever achieve a decisive constructive majority. In the Weimar Republic the parties regrouped, some merged with the major ones, some disappeared.
In the nineteentwenties, the most dominant were the SPD = the socialists, the KPD = the Communists, and the NSDAP = the Nazi party, for short. The national democratic party was losing ground.
I've found an interesting, revealing timeline in a German wikipedia entry, which shows the growth of the Nazi party from 1919 to 1933. It makes the hair at he back of head stand up. I'll post a translated one tomorrow.
Thank you, Jude, for your post about Erickson. ere's more to be said about that subject.
Thank you, Gumtree, many thanks to all.
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JoanG- I can not tell you how happy it makes me to hear of someone else's fascination with this book. When I attempt to tout its beauty, I stumble over my own thoughts. It is also amazing how much more you will get out of the 2nd reading.
Straude- you will bring a wealth of information and validity to this discussion. Thank you.
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Under the map on the left of this url is a brief synopsis that interested me. Check it out.
A Brief History of German Rule (http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/de.htm)
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. everyone is welcome to join in.
The Book Thief - Coming March 1!
PREDISCUSSION Now!
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/bookthief/bookthiefcvr3.jpg) | "Fortunately, this book isn't about Death; it's about death, and so much else."
"Some will argue that a book so difficult and sad may not be appropriate for teenage readers. "The Book Thief" was published for adults in Zusak's native Australia, and I strongly suspect it was written for adults. Many teenagers will find the story too slow to get going, which is a fair criticism. But it's the kind of book that can be life-changing, because without ever denying the essential amorality and randomness of the natural order, "The Book Thief" offers us a believable, hard-won hope.
The Book Thief is a complicated story of survival that will encourage its readers to think." (Bookmarks Magazine)
"How can a tale told by Death be mistaken for young-adult storytelling? Easily: because this book's narrator is sorry for what he has to do. The youthful sensibility of "The Book Thief" also contributes to a wider innocence. While it is set in Germany during World War II and is not immune to bloodshed, most of this story is figurative: it unfolds as symbolic or metaphorical abstraction.
"The Book Thief" will be widely read and admired because it tells a story in which books become treasures. And because there's no arguing with a sentiment like that." (New York Times)
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1-2 ~ Prologue
March 3-7 ~ Part I & II
March 8-14 ~ Part III & IV
March 15-21 ~ Part V & VI
March 22-28 ~ Part VII & VIII
March 29-April 4 ~ Part IX & X
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Some Questions for Your Consideration
1. What information can you find about the author, Markus Zusak? Where and when was he born? What drew him to the subject of Munich and life in Nazi Germany at the start of the second world war, years before he was born? What had he written before The Book Thief?
2. To your knowledge, did most of the German people share the same sense of hope, security and trust in Adolf Hitler under his presidency and Nazi rule in the 1930's?
3. What do you know of the spread of communism within Germany at this time?
Relevant Links ~ A Brief History of Germany Rule (http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/de.htm)
Discussion Leaders: JoanP (jonkie@verizon.net) & Andy (mailto:WFLANNERY@CFL.RR.COM)
JoanR:Good morning!
Thank you so much for the background material, Traude! It is most helpful.
I have to return my library copy but I have ordered a paperback from Amazon - it should be here in a few days.
I love the way this book is written - so lyrical. And somehow, with such economy of words, this author puts a scene vividly before your eyes. Very pictorial. I'm just plain crazy about this kind of writing.
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Me Too ! I read the book a couple of times when it was first published and am really looking forward to reading it again - especially with this group. All I have to do is to locate where I've stored the book - or maybe mount a search party to comb over my sons' shelves in case one or other has purloined it.
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Good morning! Traudee, so glad you made it here during the Pre-discussion. Your experience and knowledge of pre-war Germany are so valuable in setting Zusak's story.
Am I correct in understanding that there are still penalties in Germany for the possession of Nazi paraphernalia? I can't imagine how shocking it must have been for you to see that Nazi flag on display - right here in Arlington, VA. That was in the early 50's - war memories still fresh. Somehow I'm not surprised - I can still remember an American Nazi Party here in Arlington...
under the leadership of George Lincoln Rockwell. He even ran for President - (of the US!) in 1964 Needless to say he only received about 200 votes, but his anti-communist and his Marxian anti-semitic views were well known. He even ran for Governor of VA. I guess you could say that he suffered severe penalties for his blatant Nazi displays - he was assassinated in 1967...
I'm interested in hearing more about the communist party in pre-war Germany. Jude, from what you posted of the key elements of 25 point program in 1920 - anti -parlimentism, Pan German racism,Social Darwinism, antisemitism, totalatarism and opposition to any form of liberalism. They claimed that the treaty of Versaille at the end of WW1 , was a Jewish Communist plot to humiliate Germany. The party began in 1919 and Hitler became its head in 1921.
I get the impression that since there were so many living in Germany who might fall into any of these categories, the country was not united in a happy state under Hitler's presidency in the years preceding the war. Traudee, what happened to those who fell into these categories - were they imprisonned, exiled or simply put on a watch list. I sense an atmosphere of FEAR under all the professed optimism of the German people under Hitler.
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Those of you who have finished the book - and praise its poetry, its lyricism with such obvious delight - are proof that the book is not an oppressive story, another holocost story. Considering the backdrop, this is indeed heartening. It is important that we understand what is going on around the story, I agree.
JoanR, your mention of the author's "economy of words" reminds me of Markus Zusak's admiration for Hemingway...
Oh, I think this is going to be a rich marvelous discussion as we share this rich and marvelous book!
Gum, we wait for the news that you have located your book!
The link to German Rule that Andy supplied is in the heading now so you can refer to it whenever.
Traudee, when you bring in the link to which you referred earlier, we'll put that up too...
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Thanks for the link to that overview of German history, Alf.
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what happened to those who fell into these categories - were they imprisonned, exiled or simply put on a watch list. I sense an atmosphere of FEAR under all the professed optimism of the German people under Hitler.
I am not sure this is what you had in mind but here is some of what went on before WWII.
http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/knacht.html
I first learned of Kristallknacht (Night of the Broken Glass) in an article(not this one) in Hamodia. It left quite an impression. The above goes a little farther to explain the progression leading to the Halocaust.
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So much to day - where to begin?
I'll start with Frybabe's last post. Thank you for the lnk. The information is absolutely vital.
Kristallnacht was a carefully planned attack against Jewish businesses, carried out systematically in the entire country. It actually began in the daytime, and I was a witness.
I tutored in my high school years; the girls came to my house, except for one whose mother asked me to come to theirs. We both lived in suburbs at some distance from the city on opposite banks of the river Neckar. To get there I had to take the streetcar into the city and then ride another out of the city all the way to the city's airport on the other bank of the river - a time-consuming trip. The girl's father was commandant of the airport- not a person one could say "no" to.
On th afternoon of November 9, 1938 I was in the streetcar back in the city and on the way home. In the middle of the business district the tram suddenly slowed, an angry crowd was shouting, shaking fists, as hordes of burly men smashed the windows of storefront busisnesses. A picture or senseless destruction.
That night, the Jewish cemetery on our side of the river was vandalized. So were synagogues all over the country. After that the persecution of Jews started in full force. Many were expelled. Those who stayed had to wear a yellow star. At the end of that year, none of my Jewish classmates were left. They vanished - like the friendly butcher on the corner, who was simply gone one day. ...
JoanP, aha, Rockwell was his name. It's all coming back to me now. But I never cease to be amazed by the outrages voiced and committed under the protection of the First Amendment.
The Nazi government was the most repressive except for Russia. The individual was nothing. The State was everything. The party was almighty and an intimidating presence even in the smallest municipalities, in charge of every single institution. Informers were everywhere, even the churches. The original concentration camps were actually established for non-conformists (!), including members of the church, for example Pastor Martin Niemöller (q.v.)(who survived) and Dietrich Bonnhöffer (q.v.),who was executed.
More to come
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Oh Traude- how horrifying for you- a young, impressionable high schooler. This is a horrible account for a young woman to have embedded into the psyche.
Do you believe that the the German people were as passive as depicted? Did they and their families believe that silence might make it all go away?
Do you think that it is true what the article above states:
the Kristallnacht made it clear that the Nazis would encounter little opposition?
Your first hand account enables us to see so much clearer how the progression of this era unfolded and WHY.
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Traude Thank you. How painful the memories must be. I was just a child living here in the antipodes and to a large degree insulated from the war but my heart aches for those caught up in such a maelstrom. {{{{hugs}}}}
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OhAndy, , thank you.
There was plenty of opposition before Hitler became Chancellor in January of 1933. After that any and all opposition was brutally suppressed. Contrarians were silenced, imprisoned, an unknown number killed.
As I said, the early Nazi concentration camps were built originally for civilian political opponents: Communists, Socialists, "sexual deviants", and others. Between 1933 and 1945, 20,000 such camps were built in Germany and in the occupied countries (Poland, the Netherlands for example).
There is a wealth of information on the web, under Nazi Camps, for example. Perhaps you would link pertinent information here. I have trouble deciphering and transmitting long URLs. Thank you.
That's why I make typos, no matter how hard I try not to.
A massive, universal, unstoppable indoctrination of the populace began in 1933. In 1938 there was no more OPEN [/b]opposition. Now the main target were the Jews and their extermination. I choke when I say this, but it is the truth.,
Re question 2 "... did most of the German people share the same sense of hope, security and trust in Adolf Hitler under his presidency and Nazi rule in th 1930s?"
I don't know about most people, I was a child.
In 1931, my father was transferred from the idyllic small town in the Rhineland at the confluence of the Rhine and Moselle Rivers, where I was born, to Mannheim, a large industrial city. We lived in quiet suburb in a handsome house built of lovely sandstone in Jugendstil[=German Art Nouveau) on a corner of main street. We rented the apartment on the first floor (in Europe that means one flight up from the ground floor. The latter is called parterre).
This was two years before Hitler became chancellor.
I remember different groups of people marching by the house, always a man ahead waving a flag. There were different flags, a red one with hammer and sickle, a red-black-gold one (the Socialists), and a red-white-black one (the Nationalists).
"Rowdies", said my mother. "Close the windows! " My father gently explained.
There were also Catholic processions; there was a Catholic party endorsed by the Catholic Church = The ZentrumPartei. Despite its name, "centric" it was not.
Two years later there was no more Catholic party, or any other save the NSDAP, no more processions.
Much worse was in store.
More soon about hope, security and trust.
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History as factual, distant and debatable I like; emotional and dramatical I avoid. Nevetheless, while at B&N today I bought a copy of this book, knowing it was on the schedule for this month and although I have read your posts and have been assured that it is not sad, I hesitate to read it. I don't find "death as natural as living" as ALF indicated although I can understand her view. I have no idea how to describe death other than in adjectives such as terrible, awful, etc.
Traudee's posts, while not depressing or meant to be, are indicative of Germany's children, a decade or two depicted all too well in The DIARY OF ANNE FRANK.
I also purchased a thin book titled IN THE WAKE OF THE PLAGUE by Norman Cantor (14th century plague). Factual.
Perhaps it is a matter of fiction and nonfiction for me?
I've skimmed a few pages of the book, which I will reread, but am a bit nonplussed at the language for teenagers? I know, I know, they are different than we are, but..................
GUMTREE, how we, in American's white-covered North, envy your sun, sea, sand and surf and how interesting that the author's grandparents, from Munich, settled there as discplaced persons from Germany? Were there many that did the same?
FRYBABE, I know it wasn't at all funny, but you made me smile at your description of the snow plows plowing you back into your driveway. The stuff of cartoons.
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Ella I finally had to hire a couple of kids to finish digging me out after the second snow storm. Total number of days off work - five. The snow is very slowly melting. The squirrel and birds are quite happy with the bird seed I put out. I see my neighbor has put up a squirrel station in his front yard. The ground is still very much covered with snow.
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"...but am a bit nonplussed at the language for teenagers?"
Ella, I know we are not getting into this story until next week, but would really appreciate it if you could expand on what you meant? Do you mean you thought the language too strong for today's teens to read? I'm still puzzled over why Random House decided to publish this as a book for young people - and why our public libraries shelve it in the Y section. Zusak seems puzzled with this too - he did not write the book for teens.
Frybabe, thank you so much for the link - it really helped to understand that the Jews were being persecuted years before the war ever began - and Traudee, how can we thank you for sharing these memories. Ella wonders how Zusak's story can be considered "poetic, lyrical"...even, "beautiful." Can those of you who have already read the book assure Ella that it will not be another holocaust story? How does Zusak tell such a story? I realize that I'm on real thin ice here, because I don't want to spoil things for those who haven't read the book yet, - but I really want to keep Ella with us!
Traudee, from what you've written, we see there were many others besides the Jews who lived in fear during the 30's under Hitler's rule -
"Communists, Socialists, "sexual deviants" - and once such a list gets started, it keeps growing, I would imagine.
This site tells of the first of the "political prisons" - Dachau (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005214). Since it is located a few miles outside of Munich and the story is set in Munich, it might be worth reading up on it.
I can see that this was not an easy time for a child to grow up in Germany. If parents were concerned about what was going on all around them, they surely must have conveyed this nervousness to their children, even if they told them to "shut the windows and doors" whenever something unpleasant was going on.
Our snow has begun to melt, though it is at that really ugly city-snow stage - piled 5-6 feet high at intersections and so black you can hardly tell it is snow. My grandson, who spent much of his "snow" days on his own unplowed street was struck by the black snow when he finally saw what old snow looks like. I don't think he really believes it is snow. Our last storm was 10 days ago - and still have streets, sidewalks that are not navigable.
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I read this book over a year ago. It is one of the best books I have ever read. I, too, wondered how it got classified as youth fiction. I have just started reading it again for next month's discussion and I am already noticing things I missed the first time. I very seldom re-read books as there are so many out there just waiting to be read; but this one is definitely worth a second go round. Ella, please give the book a chance and join us in March.
Sally
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GUMTREE, how we, in American's white-covered North, envy your sun, sea, sand and surf and how interesting that the author's grandparents, from Munich, settled there as discplaced persons from Germany? Were there many that did the same?
Ella: Yes indeed, they came in their thousands from right across Europe and UK. Initially Australia welcomed its 'New' Australians as refugees on humanitarian grounds. Once the recovery from the war got going and became boom times the skills shortage hit hard and so Govt then sought skilled workers. Migrants from a diversity of trades and professions were actively encouraged. By 1950 200,000 people had arrived. They and their descendants have become an integral part of our society and have added a richness to our culture.
Australia has always had successive waves of migrants and is very active in settling refugees today. In addition thousands of newcomers still arrive each year seeking a life better or perhaps just different from the one they leave behind. Most find what they seek and become naturalised citizens within about five years. Of course the disgruntled ones hate it here and go back home but amazingly a large percentage of those return to Aust within a year to settle permanently. Our current mining boom has seen the skills shortage scenario being repeated as the Govt again seeks migrants to fill gaps in the workforce.
Here's a fact sheet if you're interested:
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/04fifty.htm
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Thanks, GUMTREE, that's interesting information, do you know how many Jewish refugees Australia took in during the NAZI years and WWII?
I know our country has been severely criticized for restrictions of Jewish immigration during those years. FDR's reasoning was that the depression limited the number of jobs for Americans, consequently there would have been no jobs available for refugees. Maybe I can find something onlline about that.
I'll continue reading this book, I have fallen in love with PAPA. In my lifetime I have known a few men who have his character traits; not all in one person but scattered throughout.
JOANP, words like "asshole" and "lick my ass" are startling to read (for me, anyway). I would not recommend this book for teenagers because of such language.
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Probably more than anyone wanted to know, but:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007411
http://www.historynet.com/fdr-st-louis.htm
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Thanks, GUMTREE, that's interesting information, do you know how many Jewish refugees Australia took in during the NAZI years and WWII?
I know our country has been severely criticized for restrictions of Jewish immigration during those years. FDR's reasoning was that the depression limited the number of jobs for Americans, consequently there would have been no jobs available for refugees. Maybe I can find something onlline about that.
Ella Between 1933 and 1945 Australia took in 8,200 Jewish refugees.
The thinking here was much the same as in US - unemployment etc and also Australia favoured British immigrants which reflected our origins as a British colony. All others nations were considered 'alien' though originally settlers had come from all over the world.
Try these links for more detail:
http://www1.yadvasham.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/docs/refugeeweek/2009
The Jewish people here are well integrated into the community and have made tremendous contribution to our society. I grew up in a suburb which had a large Jewish component so many of our near neighbours and of course, some of my classmates were Jewish. Their race and religion was never a topic of conversation. In fact, our next door neighbour was the Rabbi and his family. They were regarded as no different from the Scottish Presbyterian family on the other side.
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Ella
Thanks for those two interesting articles. It was material I had not read before and adds nicely to the background material
about WW2. Although they deal with the USA it shows an overall Attitude to the saving of the Jewish population.
Many Jews from Germany escaped to Shanghai (I know two personally) , to Cuba, Mexico and other South American countries.
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Gum, Ella, thanks to your posts and links on migration to Australia from Germany, we get a clearer idea of the kind of stories the author heard from his German mother. I can imagine how she must have felt - she could exhale now, and feel free to relate what she and her neighbors had been through in Germany. Let's remember that this book was based on mama's stories. Don't you think it must have been difficult for the former enemies - German and UK immigrants to exist side by side in Australia at that time? How about the Germans and the Jewish refuges? 8600 of them? Gum, you say they are well integrated now, so many years later. Can you tell if they settled in the larger cities when they first arrived? Hopefully they assimilated and did not form their own tight knit community - although I can see that would be a natural thing to do.
Ella - thanks for those examples of the language that had startled you. All the more shocking when you consider who was using such language! I won't go into the story, except to say that it wasn't PAPA! I haven't read very far into the book - perhaps we will learn where such talk came from. I would imagine that young people reading this book are familiar with such talk - but not coming out of the mouth of...an adult.
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I would imagine that young people reading this book are familiar with such talk - JoanP
Oh, I think so too. And they probably use that language sometimes around each other, but not with their parents I would hope. They certainly would not have used it in our home!
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Oh I think maybe Random House made a mistake in designating the book as meant for Young People because the Author himself seems surprised that it was designated as such. I am sure that none of us would be comfortable with the use of such language with anyone and certainly not with our children.
Joan Grimes
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Don't you think it must have been difficult for the former enemies - German and UK immigrants to exist side by side in Australia at that time? How about the Germans and the Jewish refuges? 8600 of them? Gum, you say they are well integrated now, so many years later. Can you tell if they settled in the larger cities when they first arrived? Hopefully they assimilated and did not form their own tight knit community - although I can see that would be a natural thing to do.
JoanP: that's a very difficult question as there are so many variables. Many of the refugees or 'displaced persons' and indeed later migrants responding to the skills shortage were initially required to work in rural areas or to work on major engineering projects such as the Snowy River Hydro Electric Scheme for a couple (maybe up to five) years before they could settle wherever they liked.
Some chose to stay in the country towns or regional centres but many wanted city life and it is only natural that those of any nationality would wish to be among their own and they congregated together or joined existing groups in the cities.So like most of the world, we have ethnic communities within our cities but whose members are simultaneously Australians as well..
Some immigrants do not easily assimilate even now, but their children do especially if they attended school here - the grandchildren are usually dinkum Aussies. Foreign nationalism comes to the fore at some sporting events such as the soccer....even the tennis.
I have many friends who are German or Jewish by birth or extraction. There is no overt antagonism between them but one cannot know how they feel personally.
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Gumtree, many thanks for our posts rabout the successful integration of DPs in Australia.
For more information here is a link about displacement camps in general
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displaced_Persons_camp
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I'm relieved that the link transmitted in my preceding post worked. :)
The first paragraph in that URL is of particular importance. In this connection the information given under "Resettlement of DPs" is also of interest.
Here is what Albert Camus said in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech in 1957:
"Do you know that over a period of twenty-five yers, begween 1922 and 1947, seventy million Europeans - men, women and children - have been uprooted, deported, killed?"
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Ella,
I was not aware that the book contains strong terms uttered by some (?) characters because I have read only excerpts on line, which didn't contain any.
Well, I was a teenager in Europe at the same time as the author's mother, the source of his information.
But the incontrovertible truth is that I did not grow up with objectionable words, never heard any from my parents, classmates or anyone else. They simply did not exist. Eventually I learned what the French "merde" means, and what the German equivalent is, but I was never tempted to use either.
The sad truth is that four-letter words have become part of every-day language. There are people who can't seem to do without. Just today, surfing the TV, I happened on an episode of Supernanny where half of the children's utterances was bleeped out.
Last year I borrowed a CVD from the library of the highly lpraised movie The Squid and the Whale with Jeff Daniels and Laura Linney, based on a true story by Noah Baumbach,who directed the film.
Whatever merit the story had, it was ruined for me by the truly appalling language used by the four main characters, mother, father, two sons. Thank goodness I did not buy the thing! Mercy.
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Getting back to question 2 regarding hope, security and trust.
I cannot answer the question satisfactorily. Raised in the twenties, I was very close to my fahter, an officer in the First World War, wounded at Verdun in France. He who told me about the horrors of the war, the trenches, the attacks with toxic gas hich left an uneven and permanent facial discoloration.
He also told me of the chaos that awaited the troops - or what was left of them - when they walked back on foot from the western front across the Rhine. He talked about the revolution, an inflation of a magnitude never seen before, and of the consequences of the Treaty of Versailles and the (eminently reasonable, he thought) Fourteen Points proposed by President Wilson.
On the other hand, France (under GeorgesClėmenceau) and Britain (under David Lloyd George) insisted on harsh "punishment" (Margaret MacMillan) so she she would never rise again.
Historical analysts have said then, and later, that the conditions imposed on Germany were indeed one of the reasons why an exhausted country that had lost part of its land on all sides, all its colonies, obligated to pay reparations , laboring through a deep depression, was "fertile territory" for Hitler and his demagoguery.
Margaret MacMillan discounts that theory in her book Paris 1919, and Richard Holbrooke seconds her opinion in his Foreword.
From what I learned, Hitler did bring hopeinitially. Just as Gumtree said in an earlier post, he did put people back to work on building an elaborate highway system, the Autobahnen.
In all of his excessively long rants on radio he hectored against the Versailles Treaty and the unfair treatment of Germany. (Say anything often enough and you will be believed ...)
Under the stipulations of the Versailles Treaty Germany was allowed no more than 100,000 men in arms. The Rhineland was a demilitarized zone and under French occupasion (with French Moroccon sldiers) until 1931.
Austria lost Hungary, Romania, Bohemia, Moravia, Istria, Slovenia, and other countries east of the Danube river. Only the core of ethnic Austrians was left. The peace-makers in Versailles denied an incorporation of that core of Austria into Germany. It became an independent republic.
In March 1938 Hitler informed the Reichstag, the German Parliament, of the "Anschluss" of Austria, a "REconnection" with Germany that had never existed and was in fact an annexation.
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This is a map of the Austria-Hungary Empire in 1914 :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austria-Hungary_map.svg
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Thanks to both Straude and Gum for their own personal opinions and the wonderful links provided. It is so important that our review encompasses this build up to the horrors that follow.
Hitler took complete control of the government and pursued an aggressive policy that eventually sparked the tragic events of World War II.
In less than a week our discussion will commence.
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What chapters will we be covering the first week? I am re-reading the book and don't want to get too far ahead.
Sally
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Sally, we'll begin on Monday...gee, that's only three days away! Look in the heading of this discussion for the discussion schedule. We promise to keep it current.
Thanks for all the information setting the stage for the story...and Traudee will be with us as an eye witness. It doesn't get any better than that. Markus Zusak had his mother, we have Traudee!
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I started the prologue last night and ordered the book on my Kindle, so I'm ready to get started! ;)
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Countrymm we are discussing the book over on the following link. When a book goes from pre-discussion to active discussion they open a new link so follow me over:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=1190.0
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Thanks for the message directing to countrymm to the discussion, Frybabe! We can give her a big welcome when she shows up. In the meantime, I'll close this Prediscussion, but leave it up because it contains some really good information about Germany at the time.