The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Please post here if you can join us starting Nov. 12....
November Book Club Online
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hobbit/hobbitcover.jpg) | The Hobbit turns 75 this fall, an occasion likely to cause many thousands of people to reflect with fondness on their childhood memories of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins.
Though a much loved and widely respected children’s book, this work is too often overlooked by adults who relegate it to the nursery bookshelf. "The Hobbit is a brilliantly constructed story unfolding themes that adult readers will still find compellingly relevant to the modern world: themes such as the nature of evil and the significance of human choice, or the corruptive power of greed and the ease with which good people can be drawn into destructive conflict." Corey Olsen is an Assistant Professor of English at Washington College in Maryland
Bilbo Baggins begins as a cautious and conservative hobbit, well respected and considered a pillar of the hobbit community. When he reluctantly sets out on a quest to recover the stolen treasure of a band of dwarves, he encounters dangers of all descriptions. His adventures, which figure prominently in a prophecy of the dwarves, are like stepping stones on the inner journey Biblo must take to find his courage. Bilbo faces trials which again and again force him to look deep inside himself for the strength and resourcefulness he needs to complete the task expected of him |
Discussion Schedule
| Ch 1 - 3 |
Nov 12-16 |
| Ch 4 - 6 |
Nov 17-21 |
| Ch 7 - 8 |
Nov 22-26 |
| Ch 9 - 12 |
Nov 27-Dec 1 |
| Ch 13 - 15 |
Dec 2-5 |
| Ch 16 - 18 |
Dec 6-9 |
| Ch 19 and overall |
Dec 10-13 |
Discussion Leaders: PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net ); Marcie (marciei@aol.com), Babi (pmg371@aol.com), Barbara (augere@ix.netcom.com )
Welcome to our pre-discussion for The Hobbit, where you can let one another know you'll be joining the group when we start our discussion of the book on November 12.
What a timely choice of book. It's not only the 75th anniversary of the book but on December 14, "from Academy Award®-winning filmmaker Peter Jackson comes “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey,” the first of a trilogy of films adapting the enduringly popular masterpiece The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien.
The three films tell a continuous story set in Middle-earth 60 years before “The Lord of the Rings,” which Jackson and his filmmaking team brought to the big screen in the blockbuster trilogy that culminated with the Oscar®-winning “The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.”
I look forward to talking about the book (and perhaps the film too) with you.
Whether you've read The Hobbit before and want to get reacquainted, or are reading it for the first time, you have a treat in store fore you. There's always something new to discover in this beloved classic. Come with us on the journey, and we promise to get you "there and back again" in one piece, in spite of all the dangers on the way.
We have read together over the years many a quest novel. Although published in 1937, and greeted with acclaim immediately nominated for the Carnegie Medal for some reason it was not part of my childhood. The Hobbit followed by The Lord of the Rings, written by J. R. R. Tolkien, an Oxford Professor and scholar of Anglo-Saxon literature keeps us glued to a created Wilderland and its many odd sized creatures.
Not only did I miss the stories during my childhood, they was not part of my children's experience however, very much were all the books read and loved by my grandchildren. That was when I first read them, back in the early to mid 90s just in time to have opinions about Peter Jackson's version of The Lord of the Rings masterfully filmed in 2001 - 2002 - 2003
Jackson did not produce a film version of The Hobbit at the time. This stand alone Novel will be released in theaters as Marcie tells us in December - It appears our group on Senior Learn are again, on the cusp of latest in the arts -
When nights are early and the wind is blowing the last of the leaves how great to snuggle in with this delightful read that as I remember includes easy to tell good guys and bad guys. I am really looking forward to reading about Tolkien's world that can take us out of the gloom and doom that is the focus of most news today. Interesting, 1937 was almost a matching time when the affects of the Depression were still with us but we saw a bit of light.
Well, I've read the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and the Tolkien Reader. I have the Silmarillion and Tolkien's version of The Nibelungenlied, neither of which I have read. I've seen the 1977 cartoon version of The Hobbit and the Rings trilogy. But I don't have The Hobbit, so I guess I never read it. Odd that I missed it; either that or I misplaced the book.
I hope that means you'll be joining us Frybabe!
Right!
Frybabe, maybe our books are off somewhere together. I couldn't find mine either, and I know I have a copy. Fortunately, my library has many copies. It seems to be on a reading list, and there are even Cliff Notes. ::)
I have an unread copy of Tolkien's Niebelungenlied too. I've read some of The Silmarillion; it's somewhat depressing.
I have never read any Tolkien but did see one of the movies.
I knew I would never read it by myself so voted forr it. Since it won, I will be joining you.
That's really great, Jude, that you'll be joining the group. It should be fun.
We are in for such a delightful time! I didn't know about the film, MARCIE, and reading
your post put a big smile on my face. I'm really looking forward to that, as well. To
those who are reading 'The Hobbit' for the first time, prepare to meet Bilbo Baggins...
a hobbit beloved by all who know him. Through him, you will come to know a fabled
world and many more memorable characters.
I'm curious to see how Peter Jackson stretches it out to three movies, when he only took three to do Lord of the Rings. (He had to make a lot of cuts in LOTR, though.) We will be all primed to see exactly what he does to the book, though. Whatever he does, it will be visually gorgeous.
Thought I had an old old copy of the book...somewhere. Maybe I should go through the boxes of sons' old books. :D Our Library and branches have 17 copies - and they are all out. Either there's been a school assignment - or there are 17 Seniorlearners planning to join our discussion in November. ;)
I'm looking forward to joining you - though we have several trips planned in November.
I've ordered a copy of "The Hobbit" from Amazon, since I would like to keep that one.
Also ordered "Travels with Herodotus" while I was at it. I suspect that is a book I would
need more than two weeks to really explore. And I have for reference the book on
the old classic historians, which of course includes sections of Herodotus' histories. I'm
looking forward to a most interesting fall/winter.
All 17 copies of The Hobbit checked out of your library, JoanP? I wonder if that's because the new film is coming out in December?
I trust you will find a copy to join us.
Marcie,
I made it in to Senior Learn, and look forward to the beginning of the discussion!
I've read The Hobbit, Trilogy, and other books by Tolkien. It's been a few years, so I can't wait to go back there again!
Great, majic, welcome to the discussion. As I'm sure you already know, all Tolkien's books can stand up to multiple rereading. Each time one finds something new. We usually spend the pre-discussion talking about preliminaries, then get down to business once the discussion starts.
When did you get acquainted with Tolkien, and how did it strike you?
My library does not carry "The Hobbit". It is listed under: children 4th to 7th grade. The Librarian said she would order it from the children's branch of the Main Library.
There is only one copy there and someone has it out till the 11th of Novembrt.
Guess I'll be buying my copy or reading it on Kindle.
I don't live in a small town. My city numbers close to one million inhabitants. Maybe some head librarian doesn't like Tolkien.
I first became acquainted with Tolkien's writings in the early 1970s, reading everything I could find at the time including The Silmarillion. I read the additional materials when his son, Christopher, released his notes, etc. I guess that was the 80s. I have returned to Middle-Earth as of fen as real life allowed. Then I was delighted to attend a class, taught at Western Carolina University through their department of Religion and Philosophy, a few years ago on Tolkien's Trilogy. It was a wonderful experience.
Welcome Majic. This promises to be another really super discussion.
so glad you are joining us Majic - what a great sounding class Tolkien's Trilogy and in a college located in a beautiful part of the country - how special - look forward to your jumping in and sharing your thoughts with us. I bet you even have tidbits from the class you will be wanting to share as well - how exciting is this...
Welcome, majic. I'm glad you made it into the discussion. It's great to have a new reader with us. We look forward to your thoughts about the book when we get started on the 12th. It will be great to hear some of what you learned in your class on Tolkien's Trilogy.
It's me, hats. I always thought of The Hobbit as an adult book. I would love to read this book with the group. Thank you for having me. Would like to send a special hello to Ginny.
Oredered the book -- will read along.
First off-------HATS, WELCOME BACK TO SENIORLEARN!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???
and second,------WELCOME TO MAJIC!! A NEW FACE IN THE CROWD! HOW SPECIAL IS THAT!!
When my 47 yr old son was in third grade, we received a phone call from his teacher saying that David wasn't showing much interest in the reading class that she had put together for the first semester and he wasn't the only student having this problem. So we asked him about the class and he said it was really boring. The other students who complained were saying the same thing.That poor teacher had worked so hard on that class and here it was falling on its face for her top students. So, we told Dave that it would be good to try what she wanted for the class but that at home we would try a little more.
David and I read "The Hobbit" to each other every night from then on and when we were done with it, we started on the "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy. He and I both loved those books and later in the year or in 4th grade, we discovered that we both were cheating a little and reading ahead as the story was so fascinatin ! Wonderful books. We even owned a board game which followed "The Twin Towers??" and Dave and his friends played it endlessly.
Needless to say these were the same boys who played "Dungeons and Dragons" when in high school and still play it online as adults. Any games similar to D&D fascinate them plus now their own sons play.
Notice I am saying boys--sons only. No girls that I know of! I will put in a call later today and check up with oldest son of David to see if this younger group contains any young ladies. This group would be in high school.
I have my own copy of "The Hobbit" so will use it for this discussion. Its in its own leather box and is gold embossed. Pretty fancy!
Lots of old friends--welcome!
Hats--It's always good to see you here, and I think you will enjoy the book.
JudeS--I hope you can pick up a copy somewhere. Worst case, you can borrow from a neighbor's son or daughter.
Kidsal--your company will be welcome.
Annie--you probably know the book by heart. My daughter was a D & D player in the late 80s and early 90s, and also a Tolkien fan. Your book is much more impressive than mine. Does it have Tolkien's illustrations? If I find mine, it's a pretty battered paperback.
JudeS, how odd that your library does not carry The Hobbit. I hope you'll find a copy elsewhere so that you can contribute your good thoughts to the discussion.
Hats and Kidsal, I'm so glad that you will be joining us too.
Annie, it will be wonderful to have your participation with your gold embossed copy! Reading it will likely bring back great memories of your children's interest in it.
Hi PatH, Ginny, Marcie and all of you. Glad to be here.
hats, we're very glad YOU are here to join us. :-)
I'm getting a bit antsy about the books I ordered. It's now seven days since I got notice
that they had been mailed. Hopefully, they'll be in today's mail. Or maybe I'm expecting
too much. Is a week long enough? This is the first on-line purchase I've made in quite a
while, so I may be fretting over nothing.
Babi, it depends on where the books are coming from. They may have been caught in the hurricane stand still for a while. If the place you bought them at has a package tracking feature, you can see where your books were last scanned. I find that mighty handy so that I know to be home when they arrive. Some trackers are better than others. I like UPS because it actually tells me if the package has arrived at my local disto center and if it is listed as out on delivery yet.
Hats! This will be fun. So glad you'll be joining us - like old times!
Annie, loved the image of you and David reading the book to one another when he was in third grade. I asked granddaughter - a voracious reader - if she read the Hobbit She hadn't heard of it. I think I'll look for a nice edition for Christmas - usually get her a special book.
Picked up my Library copy today...only two week wait for one of the system's 17 copies. This edition is illustrated by the author. I'm trying to remember just what a "hobbit" is - without looking at Tolkien's own drawings.
I know hobbits live in the ground...seem to remember they they are part rabbit - but what is the "ho" or "hob" part of the word. Will that be explained? I read the whole series waaaaaaaaaay back in the early 60's I think it was.
ps. Let us know, Babi...I think that 7-10 days is reasonable...especially since the usual shipping times may be disrupted because of the east coast storm.
I find here of late I am not getting any package deliveries on Friday if it is coming ground mail by UPS so it may be Monday or Tuesday of next week in the best of circumstances but I have waited two weeks for a book.
Worst case you can get started by downloading a free copy from this site
http://www.onread.com/reader/191038
or this site which you can download on Andoid
http://www.freebooks2u.org/fantasticfiction/The_Hobbit/
Which by the way here is the link for the trailer of the movie
http://www.ovguide.com/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey-9202a8c04000641f80000000046abcfc
EDIT: BEFORE YOU CLICK THE LINKS, SEE MESSAGES BELOW RE THE SITES LISTED
Barb, FYI, I tried the onread.com site. Two things I noticed. I had to sign up to download and then they wanted an introductory fee for the service. I did try to download the book anyway without paying, but my antivirus blocked it because it said it detected a trojan horse virus.
ah thanks for that I did upload the first page without any message so I better go clean out my computer - I thought you could read it on their site without having to download - which I prefer so as not to fill up my hard drive
It looks like you can read it online, Barb, but it keeps popping up a request to join every time I turn a page.
I will order it from the library next week and I have bookmarked the sparknotes page.
In the terms of service for the "onread" website, it says that you have to follow the "laws of your country" regarding downloading the books. That site is likely owned in a country where they don't have the copyright laws of the U.S., England, etc.
Just looked up the domains:
onread.com is in Azerbaijan(AZ) in region Northern and Central Asia
freebooks2u is in France
I have reserved the book at my library. Hopefully they will have it for me early next week. Do we have a schedule set up yet. I hope to join you.
Sally
Welcome, Sally. Early next week should be plenty of time. Once you start reading that book it sucks you in, and it's hard to put it down. When we start on the 12th, we'll be talking about the first 3 chapters, plus any background anyone is interested in.
You 're right Pat - I can't put it down either. Opened the book to look for the dedication - love to read those - and to read the first sentence. Love novels' opening lines too. Though there was no dedication, I did go way past the opening line. I see I shouldn't have asked what a hobbit looks like. Mr.Tolkien does that very carefully in the opening chapter.
The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
Please post here if you can join us starting Nov. 12....
November Book Club Online
| (http://seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hobbit/hobbitcover.jpg) | The Hobbit turns 75 this fall, an occasion likely to cause many thousands of people to reflect with fondness on their childhood memories of the adventures of Bilbo Baggins.
Though a much loved and widely respected children’s book, this work is too often overlooked by adults who relegate it to the nursery bookshelf. "The Hobbit is a brilliantly constructed story unfolding themes that adult readers will still find compellingly relevant to the modern world: themes such as the nature of evil and the significance of human choice, or the corruptive power of greed and the ease with which good people can be drawn into destructive conflict." Corey Olsen is an Assistant Professor of English at Washington College in Maryland
Bilbo Baggins begins as a cautious and conservative hobbit, well respected and considered a pillar of the hobbit community. When he reluctantly sets out on a quest to recover the stolen treasure of a band of dwarves, he encounters dangers of all descriptions. His adventures, which figure prominently in a prophecy of the dwarves, are like stepping stones on the inner journey Biblo must take to find his courage. Bilbo faces trials which again and again force him to look deep inside himself for the strength and resourcefulness he needs to complete the task expected of him |
Discussion Schedule
| Ch 1 - 3 |
Nov 12-16 |
| Ch 4 - 6 |
Nov 17-21 |
| Ch 7 - 8 |
Nov 22-26 |
| Ch 9 - 12 |
Nov 27-Dec 1 |
| Ch 13 - 15 |
Dec 2-5 |
| Ch 16 - 18 |
Dec 6-9 |
| Ch 19 and overall |
Dec 10-13 |
Discussion Leaders: PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net ); Marcie (marciei@aol.com), Babi (pmg371@aol.com), Barbara (augere@ix.netcom.com )
Thanks for the soothing words, FRYBABE and PAT. I figure to wait until Monday, and if it still
hasn't shown up I will see what I can find out. I can always begin with a library copy if
necessary. Or, considering the number of people that are having to reserve the book, maybe
not. :-\
JOAN & PAT, I well remember how enraptured I was when I first read Hobbit. I stil remember how
delighted I was with the little farewell song that was sung by one of the hobbits when Bilbo started his journey.
He hopped up on the table at the pub and started singing. I swear I could imagine the tune as well. (Can't
remember if it was Bilbo himself who did the singing.)
Babi is the book coming directly from Amazon or from the Marketplace and a private seller? I get so many of my books used from the Marketplace and find the delivery to be all over the time table - some come as quickly as if I ordered prime from Amazon and others take the 3 weeks - here of late I have not had to wait more than 3 weeks although in the past is was not unusual. I find if I email the seller Amazon gets a copy of the email and they get on top of it for me.
Our discussion schedule is now in the heading of this discussion.
What a great adventure book "The Hobbit" is! Why have I not read it before now? I started reading it yesterday and have read 5 chapters already. I plan to join the discussion. This should be fun.
Oh, great, dean69, it's good to have you with us.. Indeed, I suspect our main problem will be not reading too fast. Of course, if everyone wants to, we can speed (or slow) the schedule.
Hurray! Both books turned up! Naturally, I opened "The Hobbit" immediately,...and'
immediately fell under it's spell once again. In fact, I can see where it's going to be
a bit of a chore taking notes, when I just wnat to keep reading!
Oh, yes, DEAN69! You are in for a treat! You can see where a child would be delighted with
with the hobbit and his cosy burrow, while at the same time the adult is finding still more to
appreciate.
dean69, it's wonderful that you will be joining us. I think that even if some of us read the whole book and then discuss the sections according to our schedule, above, we'll likely have much to talk about. There seems to be a lot going on "between the lines."
For example, I found the following information in wikipedia:
The novel draws on Tolkien's knowledge of northern European historical literature, myth and languages. The names of Gandalf and all but one of the thirteen dwarves were taken directly from the poem Völuspá of the Poetic Edda. Several of the author's illustrations (including the dwarven map, the frontispiece and the dust jacket) make use of Anglo-Saxon runes. The names of the dwarf-friendly ravens are also derived from Old Norse for raven and rook, but their characters are unlike the typical war-carrion from Old Norse and Anglo-Saxon literature. Tolkien, however, is not simply skimming historical sources for effect: linguistic styles, especially the relationship between the modern and ancient, has been seen to be one of the major themes explored by the story.
On the other hand, as PatH says, we can adjust the discussion schedule as we go along.
Oh,yeah! I have never heard of "There and Back,Again..." but it sounds like a great follow up to The Hobbit; which discussion I am going to try to stay optimistic and alive enough to join in. I failed on The Tempest,but I'll try again. I have so little life I bury myself in books and ignore what oppotunities I have to be with others(physically or digitally!)
Lorac625, I was beginning to get worried about you, so it's good to see you here. Do try again, at whatever level you're comfortable with. This is going to be fun.
Magic here.
For some reason, my email stop getting notifications on the postings, so I just caught up.
I have a secret to tell, but when I tell - everyone will know and it won't be secret any longer. There's been a person, who has been lurking among the group members for many years now. She is my mother. Today she asked, if I had been keeping up on reading the posts. This is how I knew that they were not coming into my email. She also tell me how to correct the problem.
And now, I've told everyone she's out here. Know that she loves this group, knows everyone here by name and talks about each of you as personal friends, but remains in the background. LOL Hi Mom!
I think it's great that some are reading ahead, but I really think we should keep the schedule like it is. There's so much to discuss, I'm sure we can use the time for the good.
.
Hi, majic's mom. I'll remember there's another silent friend out there. Enjoy.
Lorac, I'm so glad you will try again to participate in our conversations about The Hobbit. As Pat says, it should be great fun.
Majic and Majic's mom, you can't leave us dangling!! What a nice mystery to have a "secret" mom and daughter team here.
My copy arrived today - beautiful edition -- annotated by Anderson
I thought some of the dwarf names were vaguely familiar, MARCIE. I was pleased to see
that they been used elsewhere. Not that I ever read 'Voluspa', but no doubt they have
turned up elsewhere in literature.
What fun! Now we can all play "I wonder..." from time to time, esp. as we get to know Majic
better. Who knew a half-secret might be more intriguing than the secret. ;)
Barbi
You are right, they have appeared elsewhere. I don't know if you, or anyone else, read any/all of the Harry Potter series but there were many times I had the déjà vu experience. There are many pieces of Tolkien which appear in Harry Potter, too. Hum, so much for total originality.
This morning, I woke up to... "You told!". Well the secret is out, but she chooses to remain in the "closet". LOL Some of you probably know what I mean by "the old group" that existed before this one started. Well, she's been around that long and I feel as if I know many of you from all our conversations. It took the Hobbit to get me roped in to actually becoming a real participant.
Thanks everyone for the warm welcomes, I am excited about the upcoming discussions!
I'm sure we have a number of silent friends out there. Once in a while we catch a glimpse of one. I like to think of them being there.
Majic, does your mom know about the other spin-off group from the old group?
http://www.seniorsandfriends.org/index.php (http://www.seniorsandfriends.org/index.php)
There is some overlap in membership.
Names aren't all that Tolkien took from Finnish. It doesn't appear in this book, but one of his elvish languages, Quenya, owes a fair bit to Finnish.
It occurs to me, especially in writing fantasy, that including references to other fantasy
places and creatures would tend to make it all more 'real'. What do you think? Why not
watch for such figures in 'Hobbit', and see what our reaction is?
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/air-new-zealand-the-hobbit-safety-briefing/201sjr5w?ogvars=bWt0PWVuLXVzJmZyPWZhY2Vib29rLWxpa2Utc2VuZCZhcD10cnVl&from=en-us_fblike
Tee hee, Dana, that's better than the unintelligible safety briefings I get on airplanes. ;D
A riot and yet so wonderful it brings smiles and tears of delight.
Thanks Dana. That was delightful.!
That was great, Dana. Thanks.
The Hobbit is waiting for me to pick up at the Library tomorrow.
Is anyone planning to pick up Corey Olsen's Exploring J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit" . I think it was just published in September.
I didn't know about Corey Olsen's Exploring J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Hobbit", but after checking up on its author I found a web site he established back in 2009. It looks like something we might want to explore:
http://tolkienprofessor.com/wp/
After lookin into the above website further I thought I'd post this link, as it would narrow hinges down to just information on "The Hobbit". A great set of lectures on the book, well worth listening to.
http://www.tolkienprofessor.com/wp/lectures/the-hobbit/
The Hobbit airline briefing is very cute, Dana.
Frybabe, Exploring J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit by Corey Olsen is "in transit" to my local library. Thanks, majic, for the link to the author's website. It looks like it has lots of good information.
Wow great background links found and recommended - love it... and yes, Dana I had to email the link to the airline tutorial to my list - heard back from several who thought it was great.
That link came just in time for me, Dana. At my f2f sci-fi/fantasy book group last night someone brought it up, and I got credit for having seen it. (I'm the oldest one there, and like to show I'm still current. They're very accepting of me, though.)
This PDF link fascinates me and I am tempted to swing for a copy of the book... this is the first chapter, plus intro etc.
http://files.tyndale.com/thpdata/FirstChapters/978-1-4143-0596-7.pdf
Barb, the very first line of the forward got me: "No child should grow up in a world without hobbits."
I've had my books for ages. When I asked my sister if her children would like them, she said she didn't want her children to be reading about wizards, etc. before they were well grounded in their religious faith. So, I have kept them (except, apparently, The Hobbit) all these years.
I also just downloaded Phantastes (mentioned in the Introduction) from Project Gutenberg.
BARB, I was much taken by these word from the Introduction in your link: "inspire our hearts with realities best experienced in the land of fantasy..."
What a great insight. Fantasy can play this role with children, to introduce them to some realities in a way, and a place, that allows them to learn without endangering them.
Yes, and I think a bit of that stays with us or why would we be reading so many novels - all fantasy yet, we are seeing the happenings as if real learning along with the characters the pitfalls and the lessons.
Exactly. I learned more about people from reading than from socializing, espcially when
I was young. Inexperience tends to accept everything at face value. The insight, I think,
comes only with experience and learning about the human condition...often from books.
I don't think there is any doubt that Tolkien used 'The Hobbit' to draw attention to
certain human behavior and social flaws.
For Dana and anyone else who enjoyed the New Zealand Air Hobbit Commercial:
My newspaper (SJ Mercury News) had an article on the commercial today. They praisedit highly and mention that it has had million s of hits. Also that two of Tolkien's Great Grandsons are acting in it (wearing big hairy feet).
The discussion is open at last. We've moved to here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3623.0 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3623.0)