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The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 8 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 15 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone? Does it work?
2. Do you agree with Will’s statement – “You can no longer assume that anyone is reading anything”?
3 Do you have a favorite first line, or a first line that you always remember? Or any one line that has special meaning for you?
4. What do you think of Mary Anne’s habit of always reading the end of the book first? Do you ever do that?
5. In making difficult decisions, choose “ the road with the exit ramp”. Is this a good strategy? Do you do it this way?
6. “...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.” Do you have books like that?
7. Of J.R.R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: “Everyone seems to like one or the other” not both. Is this true of you? Which one do you like?
8. What do you think of “benign neglect" as a method of child-rearing?
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
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Welcome to SeniorLearn’s discussion of The End of Your Life Book Club, a book that is a son’s tribute to his mother. For me it’s also like a biography as we get to know both the author and his mother, through the books they read and what they say about them.
My local newspaper has really dumb obituaries. Born, married so and so, died, survived by, preceded in death by his parents – always preceded by parents, no matter what age. A cardboard individual .
And yet, I’ve read fascinating obits in other newspapers and often think, “Gee, I wish I’d known him (or her).” And that’s much the way I’ve felt while reading The End of Your Life Book Club. Mary Anne Schwalbe. Such an amazing woman. One who reached out to many and accomplished much. My first thoughts after starting this book were “Why didn’t I know of her before?” What are your first thoughts about this book?
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At last we can get going. What a remarkable family. What a remarkable book. What’s your strongest impression to start with? This book hits home to me in all sorts of ways, can’t wait to see what the rest of you think.
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Thank you for the picture of Mary Ann Schwalbe. She looks exactly as I expected!
I have no experience dealing with prolonged deaths so that part of the story isn't "hitting" me - but I am enjoying the author's comments on his Mother's life as well as his own.
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I was sitting in a doctor's waiting room when i started the book and i thought "Wow, what an interesting family." And then, he reminded me of John O'Hara. I liked his books when i was in high school and college, but i have not read Appt in S. i'm going to pick that up at the library. I started reading O'Hara after seeing the movie From the Terrace. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Paul Newman being in the movie! ;D. I also remember Joanne Woodward having a great wardrobe, probably by Edith Head.
I have a feeling all of our tbr lists are going to expand by the end of March.
I don't recall using a book to start a conversation, but i know that i have referenced many books in conversations. Most recently i have often recommended "Song of the Gorilla Nation", which is the memoir of an adult woman who has autism. She dropped out of high school because she just couldn't handle the stimulation. She would go to the zoo and watched the gorillas interacting and learned some clues in how respond to others by watching the gorillas interacting. The gorilla keeper saw her, allowed her to volunteer w/ the gorillas, encouraged her to go to college and when she wrote the book she has a Phd in English and is a college professor.
No, i would never read the end of the book first. For me there wld then be no point in reading the book.
Jean
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Hi,
I'll be reading your posts and will enjoy your talk about the various books you've read.
I agree with you Ella, about being irratated with the euphemism "passed" instead of "died."
Perhaps "expired" would be a better word for a book club group that reads lots of library books. LOL
Marj
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Yes, all of our TBR lists are about to grow. I've somehow missed out on John O'Hara, and that makes two of you who like him, so maybe I'd better give him a try. And The Etiquette of Illness is on hold for me at the library.
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Pat, i wld describe O'Hara as a slightly sophisticated 1950s soap-opera-in-a-book/movie. :)
A well-written book/movie. If you hv netflex add From the Terrace to your list. What was the other movie from his books? I'll check it out............
Ten North Frederick!!! That was the one i was thinking of, but there's also Butterfeld Eight and Pal Joey which we all probably saw in the movies.
Jean
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Wikipedia site for John O'Hara: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O'Hara
Novels
Appointment in Samarra (1934)
BUtterfield 8 (1935)
Hope of Heaven (1938)
Pal Joey (1940)
A Rage to Live (1949)
The Farmers Hotel (1951)
Ten North Frederick (1955) —winner of the National Book Award for Fiction[7]
A Family Party (1956)
From the Terrace (1958)
Ourselves to Know (1960)
The Big Laugh (1962)
Elizabeth Appleton (1963)
The Lockwood Concern (1965)
The Instrument (1967)
Lovey Childs: A Philadelphian's Story (1969)
The Ewings (1970)
The Second Ewings (1972)
There are also many short stories if you are a fan of those.
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Question 3. Do you have a favorite first line?
I do like the author's first line: 'We were nuts about the mocha in the waiting room at the Memorial Sloan-Kettering's outpatient care center.
I can imagine all of New York dropping in for a cup since the book came out. I wonder how many are leaving their own, favorite book behind for anyone interested. Have they done anything, I wonder, about the bad coffee and even worse hot chocolate? I doubt it. Better not to meddle with the mood that's been established.
Of course Mary Anne was curious about the ending. It shows her character. One can sense her wondering: what can we do about it?
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I'll try to peek in but I could not finish our last months selection with my time being gobbled up - everything takes me longer then it used to - but I am fascinated by this story.
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"The small boys came early to the hanging." (from Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett)
Marj
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Barbara, please do come peek in and join us whenever you can. With all these books there is much to talk about, and this book itself is easy to pick up and read, put down, and pick up again.
Jonathan, I’m so glad you mentioned first lines. I haven’t paid much attention them, but I think that is likely to change. When I was with the high school library one of the English teachers would give her students frequent “Mindstretchers” to be answered in the library and one of the favorites dealt with first lines. The only one I can remember is something like “Happy families are all alike, but unhappy ones are different, each in their own way.” It’s Tolstoy, but I’m not sure which book.
You have just sent me to the bookshelf where I find this first line from a book that Ginny has recently read and talked about in Fiction -- “The letter that would change everything arrived on a Tuesday.” And that is from The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry.
Jean, thanks for listing the John O’Hara books/films. I’ve just added From the Terrace to my Nlx queue. Nlx doesn’t seem to have any of his other film, nor does Amazon. I think I’ve seen Ten North Frederick (Spencer Tracy) at some point, but may have it confused with The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit. But anyway, like PatH, I’m going to have to give O’Hara try.
I was shocked at this morning’s news about Babi’s death, but am grateful that she wasn’t lingering and was able to be with us almost to the end. We were roommates at the 2002 SeniorNet get-together in DC, and I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to get to know her, then and through the years here at SeniorLearn.
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The "first line" I remember best certainly isn't from a book I ever read! In fact, I don't even remember the title or author.
In the early 1980's, I worked part-time as a Page at our public library. One of my duties was to help shelve the paperback romances and we Pages used to laugh at the pictures on the covers, as well as some of the texts. The comments here reminded me of a First Line that sent us all into stitches:
"The rats of panic scampered through her breast."
(Picture it!!!)
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I think we're all kind of numb today. I'm having trouble settling to anything.
First lines: there's always "Call me Ishmael" (Moby-Dick).
I make it a point not to read the end of a book ahead of time, but there are some occasions where I do. Sometimes I get impatient with a book and see I'm unlikely to finish it; then maybe I'll read the end. And sometimes that inspires me to go back and read the middle. And very rarely, I can't stand to wait and peek ahead, but not very often.
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Callie ;D
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PatH, I do the same thing re: jumping ahead to read the ending. There are books that get so bogged down with descriptions that I skip to the ending rather than slog through the details, metaphors and similies.
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Callie - i can see why you can't forget that line. :o
Altho, i don't think it would make me want to read the book!
One of my top five books, Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy starts, "My wound is geography. It is my anchorage, my port of call." and i had noted in the book, "Everybody?" meaning, " is that true for everybody." I think i did that for a book group i was reading it for. It was certainly true for me.
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LOL, Callie. That is a first line that's difficult to picture! I also have to laugh at many book covers. Many times covers of science fiction books have little to do with the book... more like a teen boy's vision of the book :D
I came back from the library this afternoon with a surprise. I was about 70 on the "hold" list for THE END OF YOUR LIFE BOOK CLUB but as I was browsing the featured books in the lobby, I found a "walk in" copy of the book! I'll now be able to read it and join you all for the start of this discussion.
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"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."
What book? I should know that, but I have that first line in my head.
I picked up the book yesterday, but then somehow I got disconnected from it - I will definitely read some pages tonight.
DEAR BABI! We will always miss you in our discussions.
A few months ago, I moved into a "retirement home." I am surrounded when I leave my apartment by folks on walkers, folks who walk slowly, awkwardly; I wish there was some way of addressing them, something to say when I pass them other than "How are YOu?" and invariably the answer - "Just fine" - and I know darn well they are not. And there are the younger ones also who stride along as I used to do.
My sweet neighbor, the one with cancer, has a port for the chemo, she showed it to me, she's quite frank about her condition and willing to talk about it. I admire her very much, she's on her second round of this stuff and was just about to refuse it, but..........
There are many reviews, articles about CROSSING TO SAFEY by Stegner, the first book discussed by mother/son: Here are two:
http://www.litlovers.com/reading-guides/13-fiction/230-crossing-to-safety-stegner?start=1
http://blogcritics.org/books/article/book-review-crossing-to-safety-by/
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Thanks for the pictures in the heading. What a lovely smile Maryanne has.
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"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities
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What a lovely smile Maryanne has.
Doesn't she? She looks just like one would think.
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In Chapter 2, Appointment in Samarra, Will learns of his mother's cancer while he's at a book fair in Frankfort. He feels guilty for being off somewhere where he can't help, and thinks of W. H. Auden's poem Musee des Beaux Arts; it's about Brurghel's painting The Fall of Icarus, and talks about how disasters happen while other people are going about their own business and not caring very much. Here's the whole poem, with the picture. Click on the picture to make it bigger.
http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/auden.html (http://english.emory.edu/classes/paintings&poems/auden.html)
Where's Icarus? He's in the lower right corner, a pair of legs disappearing into the water.
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Marcie, so glad you got a copy of the book. But what is a “walk in” copy?
Ella, thanks for the links to Crossing to Safety. That’s the only Stegner book I’ve read, years ago, and I don’t remember much other than it was a story of friendship and one of the characters got polio. But I do remember exactly where and when I bought it over 22 years ago. How interesting about Wallace Stegner – did you see his list of students listed in the LitLovers link?. That link will be useful to us during this discussion.
How devastating for Will to be in Germany when he receives news of Mary Anne’s diagnosis. One wishes that Mary Anne had not called him, but Will, no doubt, would have called at some point to ask about it. Sharp eyes there, PatH, to spot the legs of Icarus. It’s interesting to see the connectivity (?) between artist(s) and poet(s)
All the first lines here – fascinating . . . and Callie, unforgetable.
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Thanks for the link to Brueghel's painting, Pat - must add I appreciated the little magnifying glass AND your hint as to where to find Icarus. ;)
What a terrible way for this son to discover that his mother's cancer has spread. And instead of bemoaning the fact, she tells him to bring her a wonderful book - he does - Broughtman's Savage Detectives. I've never heard of the book, or the author - not sure I'd like it. Mom had read Michael Thomas' American Dream . (I've never heard of either book, or author, have you? Not sure I want to read them just yet - "both about disappointment." But this was how the little book club got started, the first books they read and discussed together after the diagnosis.
I'm going to admit, I was a intimidated when first reading about this family. They ALL seem bigger than life. I thought they would be "regular people" - like me and my son maybe. Mary Anne Shwalbe, a director of Admissions at Harvard, heading endless organizations - building a library in Afghanistan...and the son, Head of a big publishing house.
Like fiction, isn't it? I have just finished Wallace Stegnar's Crossing to Safety. - Could not put it down! This was fiction - Pedln, yes, about friendship - one of the characters had polio has a young mother, but the story was really about a strong-willed woman with the same diagosis as Mary Anne Schwalbe.
Will writes of his mother - "Mom always felt compelled to go ahead with any plan she'd made, whether she was feeling up to it or not."
He's describing Stegnar's Charity Lang to a tee. A wonderful book, compelling and beautifully written. If you haven't read it, I recommend it - highly.
Mabel - I think of John O'Hara in terms of his movies - as you say, a soap-opera in a book/movie. Have you read his books? Well written - or well-scripted? Should we read him - or are his movies enough?
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Thinking about question 1 –
1. Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone? Does it work?
Did we not, at one time, call this Biblio-therapy? I don’t think I’ve ever really used this technique with another person to solve either his/her or my problems, but I’ve sometimes found solutions to my concerns in my own personal reading. Back in the 1970’s there was a rash of self-help books published. One title in particular sticks –I May Not Be Much, Baby, But I’m All I Got. A friend and I were both going through some upheavals in our lives at that time. She was reading every self-help book she could get her hands on. I could not see the appeal there, but found comfort in books, mostly fiction, in the characters I met there.
And then there is the compliment from one of my kids that I treasure to this day. My young daughter was reading Mr. and Mrs. Bo-Jo Jones, the first “teen-pregnancy” book ever allowed to walk off the shelf. She was describing the parents. This one’s mother was an alcoholic, this one’s mother was a druggie,”you’re like so and so’s mother.” “Oh, dear.” “You’re normal.”
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Joan - i definitely liked O'Hara's books when i was young. I don't know how i'd critique them today :) After 30 or 40 more years of life experience, i may have a different take on the story. But, as i recall, the writing was excellent and he did win awards, and got the attention of Hollywood.
Jean
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I'm just starting to read the book so I'll comment later but, to respond to your question, Pedln, a "walk-in" copy is a copy of a book that the library sets aside to be available for anyone to check out. The rest of the copies are subject to "holds" that people place on them.
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I must admit I haven't read any of the books that have been mentioned so far in the book; have not read CROSSING TO SAFETY (but JoanP's recommendation is nudging me) or John O'Hara. I did like the epigram (I always forget that word when I need it in a book discussion) - Maugham's parable wherein the Speaker is Death. What to make of it?
And even more difficult to understand or apply: "Permanent is not; impermanent is not,; a self is not; not a self (is not); clean is not; not clean is not; happy is not; suffering is not." - pg.29
You read that one time and it makes no sense whatsoever, read it 3-4 something permanates, but I couldn't explain it.
I agree with all of you that it incomprehensible that Mary Anne would tell her son of her cancer when he was overseas at a convention. Strange, but, perhaps, it might have been easier?'
My oldest sister died of pancreatic cancer; it is very hard to diagnose and actually she didn't know what her trouble was until she was told she had a couple of weeks to live. She died in two days. No chemo, no radiation, just a lot of pain and her refusal to go to a specialist or the hospital until the end.
And although it is very understated, we know the son is a homosexual and possibly the daughter.
Do we know what year this happened? I have not finished our assigned pages yet but will tomorrow. Am so enjoying everyone's comments.
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Using books as a tool in discussing - I wish I were that witty. I admire those who do!
I not only "assume" people are reading, I know they are. I see them at the libraries, my library is building a new branch, putting on an addition to our Main Library downtown. And I go in the daytime when the crowds are not there.
And think of the popularity of Amazon and B&N online! Although I deplore the fact that Amazon has now grown into a department store.
And I would never, never read the end of a book first. However, if the book is very boring or I'm tired of it I might, out of curiousity and just to rid myself of the thing, I may go to the end to see if the author can polish it up a bit.
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Ella, I haven't read any of the books we've mentioned so far, but have read some that we are about to get to in this chunk. The appendix lists about 150 books mentioned, and I've read about a third of them. I have a lot of trouble even beginning to approach the Buddhist philosophy. It's based on ridding yourself of attachment to the things of this world, and I'm still too bound up with what seems to me to be the richness of the fabric of life as it is, and the emotional attachments. A Buddhist would say I have a long way to go.
It becomes quite clear later that Will and his sister are homosexual, and in stable, happy relationships. Don't know about the other son.
The Schwalbe family dynamics are a lot like in my family, so somehow I didn't even think of it as surprising that Mary Anne would break the news in this way.
Mary Anne was diagnosed in 2007.
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Here is a list of books mentioned and discussed from the first five chapters. Authors are also listed for those titles that received more than just a cursory mention.
Books Mentioned and Discussed
Crossing to Safety – Wallace Stegner
Appointment in Samarra – John O’Hara
Pillars of the Earth
A Prayer for Owen Meany
Howard’s End
On Chesil Beach -- Ian McEwan
Seventy Verses on Emptiness
The Diamond Cutter Sutra
The Savage Detectives – Roberto Bolano
Man Gone Down – Michael Thomas
A Thousand Splendid Suns – Hosseini
The Kite Runner – Hosseini
The Etiquette of Illness -- Susan Halpern
The Coldest Winter – David Halberstam
Marjorie Morningstar – Herman Wouk
Gone With The Wind
Death of a Salesman
Caine Mutiny
Winds of War
Billy Budd
The Hobbit – Tolkien
The Story of Ferdinand – Munro Leaf
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
The Chronicles of Narnia – C.S. Lewis
Five Finger Exercise
The Caretaker
The Family of Man
Couples
Profiles in Courage
Gulag Archipelago
The Tin Drum
The Autobiography of Malcolm X
Fear of Flying
Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex and Were Afraid to Ask
Johnny Tremain
Paul Revere and the World He Lived In – Esther Forbes
Where Eagles Dare
Guns of Navarone
Puppet on a Chain
The Book of Common Prayer
For those of you with Kindles or Kindle apps, one of the books from the next chapter is available for free from Amazon: Daily Strength for Daily Needs. Will refers to this title from time to time throughout the book.
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Pedln, I just checked - and found Daily Strength for Daily Needs - free on my iPad and look forward to the next section - to see if Mary Anne uses this little book for comfort and inspiration. Thanks.
I'd just read the passage in which the young woman asks Mary Anne and Will if she'd like "to participate in a survey about the spiritual health and support systems for people undergoing treatment for cancer that has spread to other organs or throughout the body, Stage Four cancers."
After she asked a number of questions regarding Mary Anne 's spirituality - and left, Mary Anne tells Will she learned something interesting - that she had stage four cancer! He had assumed she must know. It's all so new to her. It must be hard hearing these words, realizing they are describing YOU.
Ella, I am sorry about your sister - a blessing that she didn't suffer for long.
...the lines you quoted I explained to myself - nothing is permanent ...nothing is as it seems at the moment. So just accept that - and move on...
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Ella, I’m also having great trouble with those Seventy Verses On Emptiness. But I don’t think we’re alone, as both Will and Mary Anne found them somewhat confusing as well.
I like Will’s description of his family as an airline, with his mother being the hub, organizing, arranging, and managing all the activities of the spokes that stem from it. A very busy family indeed, with lots of contacts, many friends, one that reaches out to others, Mary Anne especially. People came first. Family was most important. I think Will was simply following Mary Anne’s examples when he sought out his sixteen-year-old nephew to be in the picture with his grandmother and the other younger children.
Question here – Douglas Schwalbe, the father, worked with or managed the Theatre at Harvard, but what brought the family back to New York? Something about the father’s job?
Will’s brother Doug is married to Nancy and they have three children. Doug is a film producer?
..the lines you quoted I explained to myself - nothing is permanent ...nothing is as it seems at the moment. So just accept that - and move on...
Thanks for that, JoanP. A good explanation. Much of the same philosophy is found in Daily Strength.
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I am enjoying all of your comments but have only read 34 pages. Spent yesterday in shock over our Babi. She was such a special lady and brought such interesting ways of thinking about the topic of the day. She will be sadly missed by all of us. I remember her being at the 2002 national Book Festival with our then SN book group.
Well onto our book. I am with Ella on first lines from Dicken's. "Tale of Two Cities". One hears those first lines quoted often.
On reading the end of the book first. Naaaah! Not my style. When I put down a book that I don't like, I don't really care how it ends!
"An Appointment in Samarra" sounds enticing. John O'Hara is an author that I remember reading or seeing the movies of several of his books but that was long ago. Jean has described them perfectly!
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BABI died? Just happened to come by to check out the new group read. I am terribly shocked and very sad. She always gave wonderful thoughts during a discussion. Condolences to her family and friends.
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Hats, there is a memorial page to Babi here:
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3747.0 (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3747.0)
if you want to read what people are saying, or post a comment.
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Annie and Hats, welcome. Now that you are here, I hope you’ll both stay
I’ve been wanting to set up a timeline that includes all of Mary Anne’s accomplishments, but I just found this link and think it does a great job. It’s a slide show, can be made automatic – up to you, I found full screen without automatic worked best for me.
Time-Line (http://prezi.com/fxh9ep4qs_83/mary-anne-schwalbe/)
A Mother’s Day NYT article by Will Schwalbe, seems like a short annotation with sections from various chapters of the book. Good review, good if you don’t have the book.
Reading Together Knowing the Ending (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/opinion/sunday/reading-together-knowing-the-ending.html)
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What an interesting TIMELINE - thanks for that, Pedlin. That's a very different way to set up a memorial for someone; Mary Anne certainly accomplished much in her lifetime. How busy she must have been and with three children.
Nothing changes, we do.
There's nothing new under the sun
And we could go and on with the permanent/impermanent phrasing.
HELLO HATS!! Good to see you here, STAY!
I went to the back of the book to look at the books mentioned. I recognize most of the authors, have perhaps read a fourth of the books. What treasure there is in books; how fortunate the reader.
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The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 8 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 15 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. Do you ever use talking about a book as a tool for indirectly discussing a problem with someone? Does it work?
2. Do you agree with Will’s statement – “You can no longer assume that anyone is reading anything”?
3 Do you have a favorite first line, or a first line that you always remember? Or any one line that has special meaning for you?
4. What do you think of Mary Anne’s habit of always reading the end of the book first? Do you ever do that?
5. In making difficult decisions, choose “ the road with the exit ramp”. Is this a good strategy? Do you do it this way?
6. “...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.” Do you have books like that?
7. Of J.R.R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: “Everyone seems to like one or the other” not both. Is this true of you? Which one do you like?
8. What do you think of “benign neglect" as a method of child-rearing?
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
So many dear, familiar posters. What a pleasure to be in your company.
From the link in pedln's post: Reading Together
'I privately dubbed our club “The End of Your Life Book Club,” not to remind myself that Mom was dying, but so I would remember that we all are — that you never know what book or conversation will be your last.'
And then he tells us about the books his mother read to him in his childhood! 150 books, authors and titles! For all ages and all occasions. Recreating his mother's life? And the reader is expected to match up the pieces? What a jigsaw. With even a go at denial. A thing is not, may be eastern philosophy, but it certainly sounds like western psychology to me. It seems interesting to me tht some books are intended for entertainment, some for comfort, and some for answers.
The transcript in the other link is certainly an amazing account of Mary Anne's life.
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My goodness, Pedln! That timeline link is simply astonishing! I just watched the video embedded in that link and came away realizing what an amazing woman she was!
You'd think with all these high-powered demanding positions she held, surely her children would have felt her absence -
And yet this book is a testimony to the kind of mother she was don't you think?
- each of the three children "a story every night."
Will writes that he wasn't aware he was one of the few kids in his class with a working mother. That says a lot, I think.
He tells us that "books loomed large in their lives." What I thought important in his memory of those early days was the fact that he remembered Mom and Dad spending hours - whole weekends reading themselves. He tells us that Mary Anne "was a little amazed at parents who thought their kids should be reading more, but who never read themselves."
I'm going to pass this on to my DILs when they complain about the video games...
Was I that sort of harried mom? Yes, my boys were readers, but was I at the time? I remember their grade school principal who mandated 20 minutes of reading time every day. Everything stopped, everyone read - from Dr. Miller to the custodian. This really made an impression on the kids. They always packed a good book for school.
Hey Hats ...good to see you. Please stay a while. We miss you.
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And yet this book is a testimony to the kind of mother she was don't you think?
Oh, absolutely. Definitely a very liberal mom, though I wouldn’t call her permissive. The kids knew what was expected of them and they pretty much adhered to all that. There were no limits on TV – they could watch as much as they wanted. It’s just that there wasn’t that much worth watching. So they followed the examples of their parents – and read.
As for being one of the few “working” moms in his class, wasn’t it Mary Anne who didn’t like her first oncologist because he asked her if she “worked outside the home?” I'm thinking I read that in this book.
My kids, while living in Puerto Rico, were somewhat disadvantaged in English language book selection. The only library near us was our church library, which while quite secular, was geared more to adults. So my mother, a supervising teacher, would send them boxes of discarded basel readers – and they loved them. My son, until he was in high school seemed to read only Boy Scout manuals and handbooks. My youngest, now in her 40’s, tells me she doesn’t read books, but devotes her free reading time to newspapers (NYT) and periodicals – New Yorker, Atlantic, etc. I think she's missing out, but can understand that choices must be made.
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Thank you for the welcome, Ella.
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PATH, thank you for the link.
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For some reason the timeline doesn't work for me; don't know if it's not Mac compatible or if I need some update.
Their childhood seems very appealing to me--left to their own devices, but expected to get to any appointments on their bikes, with a grad student somewhere in the background, vaguely paying attention.
Nobody does that now; everyone is scheduled to the hilt, and safety is too big an issue.
On weekends, the choice of reading or disappearing until supper. We were a reading family too, lots of times sitting around with everyone's nose in a book. We even brought books to the dinner table, though we talked then too.
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Marjorie Morningstar: Mary Anne lists this as one of her favorite books when growing up, and Schwalbe describes it in some detail. Have you read it? Do you agree with his take on the book? The book came out in 1955. Mary Anne was 21, so not quite growing up, but still definitely dealing with the issues Marjorie faces: what to do with your life, who to marry, etc. (Mary Anne married in 1959.) How do you think the book affected her?
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So many dear, familiar posters. What a pleasure to be in your company.
That’s so true, Jonathan. And you all have your stories to tell, too, and I hope you do. What books were important when you were growing up? And your kids? And what about those moments when thoughts of the days agenda got the better of you – as they did with Mary Anne when she swallowed the dog’s worming pill.
I like Will’s style of mixing the personal with the books. PatH, I never read Marjorie Morningstar, and it’s been too many years since I saw the movie. I wonder if Millie Dunnock was more of an influence on her than Marjorie Morningstar. (I just googled Millie and it’s interesting to note that all the pages about her are those primarily associated with Arthur Miller and Elia Kazan.) I'd never heard of her but it seems she was the first Mrs. Loman, and had had other successful acting stints before then.
Were you surprised when you read about Mary Anne's conversation with Rodger, their friend who had been a care giver to a cancer victim? Perhaps he thought he was being helpful, by being so candid. And while most of us would want some idea of what to expect during a serious illness, it seems it would be better to soften the description a bit. Mary Anne softened her answer to Will, "I didn't love my conversation with Rodger."
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Books at the dinner table! I'm trying to imagine that. I can see the potentiality of a clash of wills. Did you ever feel that something was being forced down your throat, Pat ? Did you ever wonder later why you felt so hungry? Our author describes the technique for not being disturbed while reading: look totally absorbed in the book.
'mixing the personal with the books' That's a good observation, pedln. I'm completely taken by that aspect of the book. Why is he doing that. How much is he revealing with that? Or is it serving as a smokescreen? What is the book about? His mother? Himself? But he does tell us that this is his story about Mom. The others, his brother and sister, and his father would surely have their own stories to tell, he says in his dedication.
One of us mentioned the phone call Will got from his mother while he was at the bookfair in Europe, informing him about the cancer diagnosis. What can be read into that? I believe she needed support and knew where to get it. I'm sure she must have hesitated, just as I feel that it was probably the first time she ever needed help.
What kind of person gets elected president to something like the Faculty Club at Harvard?
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I was sure i had read Marjorie Morningstar or at least saw the movie, after all Gene Kelly and Natale Wood???. Two of my favorites. But looking at Schwalbe's description, i then went to wiki and read about the story/movie in detail and i don't remember a bit if it!! Maybe i'm thinking of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, that i know i read and was disappointed in that soap opera. But i was a Herman Woulk fan - Caine Mutiny,etc, so i can't imagine why i wouldn't have read it. Guess i have to add it to the tbr list ???
My favorite books as a child were Heidi, Black Beauty, Robin Hood, then i got to Nancy Drew, Christie Ames, etc.
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“...favorite books stay with you for your entire life, no matter how long it’s been since you turned the last page.”
Jean...do you mean the nurse series - Cherry Ames? Helen Wells was my favorite...I'm not sure, but I don't think I missed one of the series in the forties, early fifties.. Then came Anne of Green Gables, etc. My sister read the Nancy Drew, I loved Cherry Ames (she likes cats, I love dogs)...just as Will loved The Hobbit, his brother, CS Lewis. "Everyone seems to like one or the other not both." Will, or was it Mary Anne, seemed to be saying that the sort of books kids gravitate towards reveal a lot about the child. Do you find that's true? Of course every child I know today has gone through the Hobbit obsession. Do you know any who haven't? What does that say about this generation of kids... I think this book will stay with these kids throughout their lives.
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Oh yes Joan Cherry Ames.
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My favorite books as a young girl were the Nancy Drew mysteries and the Tarzan books. And of course all the Batman and Superman comic books.
Marj
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That's amusing, JONATHAN! What kind of a woman is chairman of the Harvard Faculty Club?
What's your opinion? Mine would be a chatty sort of woman, who likes to be in charge, conversation-oriented; not the bookish person portrayed.
Somehow to me they don't mesh; perhaps it's my personality. I'm an introvert and have lost myself in books all my life. I've tried the social scene, disliked it and had very few, what I would call, friends my entire life. Don't really need them. Cannot remember when I was on a committee of anything; probably I was when my children were small.
I'll finish the assigned chapters this afternoon.
I probably read Marjorie Morningstar when it came out, it obviously did not make much of an impression on me.
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Two things, Ella.
1. I can't think of you as an introvert. I know, you know yourself better than I do, but still, I think of you as a strong woman with a strong sense of who you are. I also think of you as someone who is always willing to listen to others, not drown them out with your own opinions.
2. I see Mary Anne Schwalbe the seem way. She is quick to start a conversation with everyone - strangers on airplanes - and probably in the Harvard Faculty Club. She strikes up a conversation by asking others about themselves - and then she listens to what they have to say. Actually she does more than that - watch her. She goes beyond, solving problems in ways that most would not consider doing. It's the listening and responding to others that I see as her gift.
Marjikay - you're my sister, Kay, right? I just knew it from what you liked to read. :D
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JoanP, I'm dittoing you about Ella. You were posting while I was in WORD.
Ella, I would never think you or anyone else who makes the effort to travel to SeniorNet and SeniorLearn events an introvert. Just because folks manage well and are happy on their own doesn’t make them introverts.
It’s almost impossible to read this book without closing it periodically and thinking about what you’ve read and how some of that relates to parallels in your own life. Like the books y ou liked as a child. Elsie Dinsmore. Sob, sob, sob. A friend had raided her grandmother’s book shelf and we devoured them. But it was Caddie Woodlawn, Carol Ryrie Brink’s 19th century Wisconsin heroine who took center stage at my house. Miss Lynes of 4th grade read it aloud, and I relayed each chapter to my poor captive family at dinnertime. About the same time I saw the Margaret O’Brien film Our Vines Have Tender Grapes, also set in my home state of Wisconsin. And for the longest time I was sure those towns were real places, just down the road somewhere from my aunt’s house in Waupaca County.
Other than The Red Balloon nothing really reigned supreme with my kids (except the Boy Scouts) until my youngest met Encyclopedia Brown. Then her 16-year-old brother took her library copy because he was tired of hearing all about it and wanted to read it himself, causing much consternation and overdue library fines.
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1. I can't think of you as an introvert. I know, you know yourself better than I do, but still, I think of you as a strong woman with a strong sense of who you are. I also think of you as someone who is always willing to listen to others, not drown them out with your own opinions.
Whoa! I think you may have a misconception of the term introvert. That sounds like the perfect description to me. Introverts simply give out energy when w/ others and therefore need to recoup that energy at intervals, that's the reason they disappear, or prefer to be alone more often then extraverts (who gain energy by being w/ others, which is why they like to have LOTS of people around and are looking for the next party.) It doesn't mean they are shy or always quiet, altho some are. They tend to be introspective, observant and very good listeners.
In a previous discussion on the subject, several of us who i would consider strong personalities w/ a strong sense of ourselves acknowledged we were introverts. In reading the later assigned pages last night i was thinking that this whole Schwalbe family may be introverts. :)
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i was thinking that this whole Schwalbe family may be introverts.
That's an interesting perspective, Jean. It seems there are several definitions of introvert, and many degrees of introversion (and extroversion). Sometimes it's been used as a negative description with extrovert being used as a positive one. And that really isn't the case. The Schwalbe family may very well be introspective, but they definitely reach out to others and enjoy social celebrations.
I had never heard the term ambivert, but would guess that more fall into that description than either introvert or extrovert.
An ambivert is moderately comfortable with groups and social interaction, but also can enjoy time alone, away from a crowd.
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There's an interesting, short article about introverts and extroverts as the concepts relate to leadership at http://www.forbes.com/sites/karlmoore/2012/08/22/introverts-no-longer-the-quiet-followers-of-extroverts/
The article mentions the recent book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking (http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362534956&sr=1-1&keywords=quiet+the+power+of+introverts+in+a+world+that+can%27t+stop+talking) by Susan Cain.
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Oh my, where is Ella? I think we need her thoughts on Intro/Extro-verts after reading this yesterday's comments.
Jean, I've been thinking hard about what you said - "Introverts simply give out energy when w/ others and therefore need to recoup that energy at intervals, that's the reason they disappear, or prefer to be alone more often then extraverts (who gain energy by being w/ others, which is why they like to have LOTS of people around and are looking for the next party.) ... They tend to be introspective, observant and very good listeners."
From the book Marcie posted - Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking-
"At least one-third of the people we know are introverts. They are the ones who prefer listening to speaking; who innovate and create but dislike self-promotion"
I'm wondering who would want to admit to being an extravert?
Would you consider yourself an introvert rather than an introvert? Do you think all who are really into reading are introverts?
What of those who like to talk about what they are reading - who seek others to share ideas from what they are reading? (I like your term, "ambiverts," Pedln :D!) I wonder what Carl Jung would say - he's the one who came up with intro/extraverts...He says that Introvert/extravert are at each end of the spectrum.
"The whole Schwalbe family - introverts?" Do you agree with Jean?
Mary Anne agrees that a blog is a practical way to keep in touch with those who are concerned about her, but she thinks Will should write it for her. As it turns out, she is writing the blog...under his name. He is her "ghost writer." What does that say about her?
" Dad had proposed to mom on their first date - and she said yes." Introverts?
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The book, it seems, is an attempt at introversion - something new, I'm guessing, among the Schwalbes. What busy lives. Brother is a film producer. Sister is fighting the spread of tuberculosis around the world. Dad represents conducters, singers, and musicians. Mom - well,
'If our family was an airline, Mom was the hub...who directed the traffic flow and determined priorities...cleared for takeoff or landing....' p10 And yet, 'Books focused her mind, calmed her, took her outside herself.'
'The truth is tha people never realize their lives are about to change in unfamiliar ways....' p9
'I realize now that all of us had reached a mad, feverish pitch of activity in the days leading up to Mom's diagnosis.' p23
There must be a bit of introversion in all of us. The question is, why do we read? I can't believe my luck. Yesterday browsing in my favorite hangout, the book corner at the thrift shop, I picked up Crossing to Safety, and Suite Francaise. Another quote:
' "You can only do what you can, and what doesn't get done, just doesn't get done." Mom was forever giving advice that she would never herself take." p23
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I'm trying to remember my earliest reading. I enjoyed it but I preferred being out of doors with my chums. We all read a lot of the 'True' stuff: crime, cowboys, adventure generally. But two books have stayed with me. A Zane Grey, and the Bible. We were challenged in Sunday School to read the Bible from cover to cover. I must have been about twelve. I did it! I got the prize. Lasting impressions from both books. I will admit, the psalms at that age were like wheat fields, see one, you've seen them all. Life was uncomplicated at twelve.
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Yes, there is a spectrum from strongly introverted to neutral, to strongly extraverted. People see me as an extravert because they see me being comfortable speaking in front of groups, facilitating discussions, seemingly comfortable in social situations, being willing to speak up, but i love my quiet, alone time and i TAKE it. I'm a moderate introvert. Most of us have a bit of both in us, but have a preference - a little to a lot- toward one behavior or the other. Obama obviously has a preference for introversion, altho he seems outgoing in the situations when we see him on tv. Bill Clinton is an obvious extravert, no qualification needed. :)
Yes, there has been a couple books and articles touting introverts lately. They counter the push of the American idea that everyone should be social, outgoing, fun! Children are encouraged to "go play w/ the other children," to be participative in sports, dance, music, groups of all kinds. My Dad accused me of being lazy bcs i liked to read or be contemplative. If i wasn't doing something physical, in his mind i was being lazy.
It's a very interesting concept to consider (said by a moderate introvert :D)
Jean
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I took the Myers-Briggs test some years ago while working at OSU; a psychology PHD student graded it for me and advised that I am sitting on the fence.
Perhaps we all are? I took the little test MARCIE posted and I am an "I" - my daughter did not believe me when I suggested to her that she also was one until she took the MB and tested the same.
The Schwalbes introverts? I wouldn't believe so; but it's too complicated for most of us to figure out and does it matter? Would we change who we are?
"CHUMS?" JONATHAN! Oh, British I think.
Life as a child was uncomplicated for most of us - the teens terrible. All those decisions; what am I going to do with the rest of my life?
I cannot understand how Mary Anne, mother of three, into endless projects, working fulltime, could still have time to "spend hours every week reading and whole weekend days." p. 68 Not what working mothers today describe as their lives. I think she had a parttime housekeeper? Possibly more help?
I've read a good many of the books in this chapter (the Hobbit one) haven't read a book specifically about Paul Revere though, must look one up. Fascinated (still) by the Autobiography of Malcolm X (perhaps we could discuss sometime).
We have a Current Events discussion group in my retirement home and sometimes our discussion centers on racism. We all believe it still exists as strong as ever. What do you believe?
Sometimes, methinks (and here I am subjecting myself to all kinds of criticism) that "Mom" Shwalbe is too good to be true? A son's love, etc.
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I love his paragraph on "printed books" on pg 42 & 43..."One of the things i love about bound books is their sheer physicality. Electronic books live out of sight and out of mind. But printed books have a body presence. Sure, sometimes they elude you by hiding in improbable places: in a box full of old picture frames, say, or in the laundry basket, wrapped in a sweatshirt. But at other times they'll confront you and you'll literally stumble over some tomes you hadn't thought about in weeks or years. I often seek electronic books, but they never come to me. They may make me feel, but i can't feel them. They are all soul with no flesh, no texture, no weight. They can get into your head, but can't whack you upside it."
I never found a book in the laundry basket, but i have been, and like being, confronted by books at the library. I haven't yet gotten an ebook from the library and i think it is because i can't hold the book in my hand and have it "talk" to me. I have walked past a bookshelf in my house and seen a book title and thought "I need to read that again."
Our library put out the idea that they were going to "store" some books that didn't get much readership, that patrons could ask for them to be retrieved. What a howl went up about that. People love walking by the shelves and latching on to a choice book they would never have thought to ask for - can't do that w/ ebooks.
Jean
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I tested out as an introvert--quite right. I'm shy and retiring, need a few good friends and some social contact, but am content to spend a lot of time alone--reading books of course.
Ella, I gather a lot of scientists question the accuracy of the Myers-Briggs test, though it's certainly widely used.
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Well, I took the test and ended up with a score of E/I, which was then described as an Ambivert, partaking of the best of both worlds. The two terms seem to describe one’s preferences as opposed to one’s actions. Actually, I prefer descriptions to labels.
Jonathan, what a coup – Crossing to Safety and Suite Francaise. And what an accomplishment at age twelve – reading the entire Bible. Your post sent me to our not-so-pristine neglected basement library to see if the Stegner might be there. But no, I’m sure I passed it on. But Hurlbut’s Story of the Bible, loose pages, loose cover and all was on the shelf. It had belonged to my father’s sister, published in 1904. I loved reading it so she let me take it. I doubt I read all 168 stories.
Electronic books live out of sight and out of mind.
Perhaps, but don’t you love it when you a free one. Or,upon hearing about a book, “I’d like to read that right now,” and voila – it appears.
Ella, I remember Esther Forbes’ Johnny Tremain because we read it as a class in Ninth grade English. And as I recall, it was well-received. Whether it was a challenging enough for high school freshmen, I don’t know. But I know we read other books and I don’t remember the titles. I’d like to read her biography of Paul Revere, which won a Pulitzer in 1942.
This book is sending me in many directions. Marjorie Morningstar to Herman Wouk, then to Winds of War and War and Remebrance. I remember the latter, but have no recollection of Winds of War, so have ordered the first disc of its mini-series from Netflix.
I'll be at the library tomorrow, so will pick up Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach. Will says it can be read in an afternoon. We shall see.
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I just got around to taking the little quiz in the link Marcie posted - that was difficult! True and False were not always satisfactory choices. I thought sure I'd turn out to be an Ambivert - like you, Pedln. But no, I was an "I"...
There were several books I thought of picking up at the library this afternoon. Maybe it will be Ian McEwan's On Chesil Beach. Pedln and I can share observations. I've read Atonement - have his latest, Sweet Tooth on the TBR pile... but I really want to get into the books Will and his mom are reading. By the way, I wish we could all be on the watch for a good book for a group discussion - the May Book Club Online, possibly? (No, Jonathan, not Fear of Flying ;)! I hope you have had a chance to VOTE FOR APRIL Book Club selection (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=309.msg186285#new)... the poll just opened yesterday - and already, there's a three way tie!
Some of us did just read The Hobbit together - I am struck by the parallels, the themes running through these books they swap. Mom says of Bilbo when he was left alone in complete silence and darkness - people and hobbits can find strength they didn't know they had. In Crossing to Safety we see the dying character, Charity Lang compelled to go ahead with any plan she'd made - whether feeling up to it or not. Sound familiar? Bilbo Baggins? Mary Anne Stegner?
When daughter Nina hesitates to go through with a move to Geneva at a time like this, Mary Anne gives her the same advice she's always given her children. Make the choice that has an exit ramp. Does Mary Anne have such a plan? I'm wondering if we are going to hear more about this ramp in her future.
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A question about those electronic books downloaded on IPad - and/or other similar devises, Jean. Is there a way one can delete them? Or do they just accumulate - out of site, out of mind?
Sometimes, methinks (and here I am subjecting myself to all kinds of criticism) that "Mom" Shwalbe is too good to be true? A son's love, etc.
I know exactly what you mean, Ella. The whole family sounds too good to be true - bigger than life. And yet, there is so much about them that is true - verifiable. I admit to feeling intimidated. Especially by Mary Anne. Where does she find the time and energy to do all she does. Where can I tap into some of that?
Perhaps Will, out of his great love and admiration for his mother, has made her into a much braver person than she was. She says she believes there are things that should be kept to oneself... I think we can hear her voice in the books she chooses and her reasons for loving them. The question is, does Will hear all she is saying, her secrets?
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Not what working mothers today describe as their lives. I think she had a parttime housekeeper? Possibly more help?
(Ella)
Well, we know she had Mrs. Murphy, she of the delicious meatloaf until her stroke.
But I wonder if Mary Anne was able to handle it all because she didn’t need to be involved in every aspect of each child’s life. They had their bikes, they got to various appointments. And when they were in high school, Will and his brother were at boarding schools, not living at home.
JoanP, Make the choice that has an exit ramp. I'm wondering if we are going to hear more about this ramp in the future.
Along with that is ask yourself, “What’s the best that will come from this, and what’s the worst?” And on p. 78 “Her new mantra was a piece of wisdom given her by a friend who specialize in pallative care – Make Plans, Cancel Them.” Not quite the same as an exit ramp, but workable.
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Pg 70 - "did you ever get obsessed about a book?"
Have you?
I'm not an obssessive kind of person, but there are a few books that i really liked. Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy and The Dollmaker by Henrietta Arnow are 2 of my favorite fiction books. Their characters are wonderful; both authors write terrific dialect so i could really "hear" the characters "talking." PoT is, of course, set in South Carolina and SC is a character in the book. TD is set in the hills of Appalachia and the city of Detroit during WWII, again the environment is key to the story. Both have wonderful human dilemmas and given the reader a lot to think about.
For non-fiction, On Understanding Woman by Mary Beard, a mid-twentieth century historian of the famous Beard family historians, wrote a terrific history of women from hunter-gatherers to 20th century, giving a persective that we didn't learn in our high school or college history courses and very readable. Doris Kearns Goodman's No Ordinary Time, about the Franklin Roosevelts during the WWII years reads like a novel. I loved it.
Jean
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My eye surgery is not cataracts, someone asked about it. Been there, done there, some years ago.
I'm having a cornea transplant.; otherwise I will lose the sight in my right eye. Can you imagine, I'll be a donor recipient! I have the fact that any part of me can be donated on my driver's license, if any part is at all worthwhile at the age of 85!
Will wel hear more about Mary Anne's living will or her plans for death, her "exit ramp", as Pedlin called it. I have one, and my husband did also, but it was not used. He died in two days at the hospital.
Dying should be talked about more, it is something we all face or plan for; Babi planned to say goodbye to us when she had her surgery. Wasn't that a grand gesture!
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JEAN, No, I cannot say I get obsessed by a book. At times, I cannot put a mystery down, I must know who did it. But I forget them after I read them, it's entertainment.
I read Goodwin's book, isn't she good. We discussed one of her books here some years ago, what was it? I forget so many of them.
I was at the library this morning and brought home two audio books for my surgery, I must lay on my back for two days and stare at the ceiling the doctor informed me, sounds medieval I got McCullough's Paris book, his latest, to listen to.
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I read Goodwin's book, isn't she good. We discussed one of her books here some years ago, what was it? I forget so many of them.
I can't ever forget that one; it was Team of Rivals. You and I co-led, and it was the first time I had ever led or co-led a discussion, so it made a big impression.
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That was one ot the best discussions here, Pat, thanks to you and Ella. Goodwin certainly is a good historian.
I've just come home with an unusual book. It won a prize this week as the best literary non-fiction by a Canadian author. He has taught at Yale, but now teaches U.S. history at Cambridge. (England, not the Cambridge, Mass, in our book). Here's a title for you: Sword of the Spirit, Shield of Faith: Religion in American War and Diplomacy.
Mary Anne's exit ramp policy alway makes me think of the preoccupation with an exit strategy among American policy makers since Viet Nam. I don't want it be a spoiler, but Mary Anne was prepared to change endings to suit her.
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Just read a good first line of a novel, not profound, but one that made me smile.........."I don't know why we gotta sit here baking in your car in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer, in the middle of this crummy neighborhood!" .
It's in Janet Evanovich's most recent Stephanie Plum mystery, Notorious Nineteen, and if you know the series, you know it's Lulu w/out having to read any further! And as i said, it made me smile, which is the number one reason i read this series. Often they make me laugh outloud!
Jean
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Thanks, Jonathan. That was a good book.
Tee hee, Jean. Yes, that's Lula, all right.
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Mary Anne's bravery--I noticed one coping mechanism. After the spiritual health survey woman first talks to Mary Anne, MA says she didn't realize she had Stage Four cancer even though she knew the cancer had spread. This sort of deliberate not connecting the dots between two known facts is a way of easing yourself gradually into something scary, while on some level you are coming to terms with it.
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Pat, I agree. Mary Anne does seem to be able to "control" a lot of what's in her environment. According to Will, her children are afraid to alter her expectations in any way. He says that once Mary Anne has set the plans for any event, they dare not alter them. She seems very kind but her kindness could potentially be seen by some as an invasion of their privacy and her exertion of control over their lives too.
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One of my regrets here on SeniorLearn -- that I did not read Team of Rivals with the group. I got the book, still on the shelf. I see Doris Kearns Goodwin frequently on TV, mainly Morning Joe and Meet the Press. She comes across as informative and authoritive in a very pleasing way.
Ella, when is your eye surgery? I'm glad you have good tapes to listen to. Perhaps there will be interesting things, a little gossip, etc. going on in the rest of yur building, and your neighbors can come and tell you the news. We here will be thinking about you and wishing you the best for a speedy and successful procedure.
Marcie, I think one reason the children hesitate to alter Mary ANne's plans is that one plan hinges on another -- i.e. "If we can't go a two, we'll miss seeing the so and sos" Perhaps she tends to overplan
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 9 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 16 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 9 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. When Will objected to Sunday School, his mother set up a plan whereby he could go anywhere he chose, but he had to go somewhere. What are your thoughts on children and their religious upbringing?
2. Do you agree with Anne Lamott that the two best prayers are “Help me, help me, help me” and “Thank you, thank you, thank you?”
3. Page 110 In talking about People of the Book Mary Anne says, “I love how Brooks shows that every great religion shares a love of books, of reading, of knowledge. The individual books may be different, but reverence for books is what we all have in common.” Do you think this is true, have you seen it demonstrated
4. Will tells Mary Anne that when David Halberstam was writing The Coldest Winter he found that the veterans hadn’t really talked to their families about the Korean War, But now with the book out, more are talking. “That’s one of the things books do,” says Mary Anne. “ They help us talk, but they also give us something we can all talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves.”
Have you experienced this with any one book?
5. “There’s something extraordinary about the first city you love....” Do you have such a city?
6. “Whatever beings there are, may they be able to protect their own happiness.” Mary Anne particularly liked this Buddhist prayer. How do we see her protecting her own happiness?
7. Will says that part of what made Mary Anne effective was that she worried about things sequentially. Can you manage that?
8. Brat Farrar is “silly”, but P. G. Wodehouse and Alice in Wonderland are “fun”. Is Mary Anne right?
9. What is your notion of courage? .
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
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I can see where the family hesitates to alter Mary Anne's plans now, now more than ever to avoid upsetting her. Do you notice Will's go-to word when Mom is not happy with suggestions he makes or a change of plans? She furrows her brow - and becomes "cross" with him. He never follows up, remembering the Etiquette of Illness suggestions.
Pedln, I remember how she used to make those elaborate plans, one hinging on another. Doesn't she seem to be doing less of that now?
It's the things she doesn't plan that catch my attention - like paying for that young woman's mother's expensive prescription while waiting in the pharmacy for her own. "Don't tell your father," she warned him. Still giving instructions to him and his siblings.
Last year a close friend of mine was given a similar prognosis - told she had two months to live. (She lived for four.) She had gone to the doctor because she was tired, and had a constant cough. The doctor sent her for tests - and the advanced lung cancer was revealed. (A fit, athletic, non-smoker all her life.)
OF course she was in shock, and went to a psychologist for help. She was told she was going to have to "teach her children how to die." Her response was, how do I do that, I don't know how to do that myself?"
Isn't that really what Mary Anne Schwalbe is doing here? Preparing her family for when she's gone and giving them a blueprint of how to live in the time left.
I've been trying to figure out the source of her strength at this time - she seems to be trying to prepare and support the family, but where is she getting her strength? There are some faint allusions to a supportive faith - I've been reading the Daily Strength for Daily Needs - downloaded it on the IPad. I can see where each day's message would be instructive and provide things to reflect upon. At the end of The "Hobbit"chapter, she tells Will she's reading a book that's about how people can find strength they didn't know they had...
The Book of Common Prayer. (http://www.episcopalnet.org/1928bcp/index.html) Will didn't seem to know the book - I didn't either. Should I? Has everyone read this book but me?
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If you're an Episcopalian, it's sitting in a rack on the back of the pew in front of you when you go to church, along with the hymnal. I have a copy somewhere, but can't find it. (The hymnal is easy--it's by the piano with other music.)
As you can see, it has the orders for all the different services in it, plus a lot of other stuff. I don't know if they've purged that bit by now, but it used to have a service for the "churching" of a woman after childbirth.
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'teach the children how to die'
Your friend, Joan, certainly got some hard advice from her counsellor. After the challenge of teaching them how to live, this sounds brutal. Who is the character in Shakespeare who went to his death in such a noble fashion that it was later said that it was the most remarkable, the most admirable thing about his life?
I found it strange that Mary Anne hears the cancer four diagnosis from the social worker.
The talk turns to dying in the next chapter, but who would have imagined it would be the 'death' of Will's stuffed turtle forty years ago.
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My little Common Prayer book has this this little prayer in it:
'O LORD our heavenly Father, high and mighty, King of kings, Lord of lords, the only Ruler of princes, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers upon earth; Most heartily we beseech thee with thy favour to behold our most gracious Sovereign Lady, Queen Elizabeth: and so replenish her with the grace of thy Holy Spirit, that she may always incline to thy will and walk in thy way: Endue her plenteously with heavenly gifts; grant her health and wealth long to live; strengthen her that she may vanquish and overcome all her enemies; and finally, after this life, she may attain everlasting joy and felicity; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Gosh. I didn't know she had enemies.
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I don't remember that in my prayer book, Jonathan. Maybe we yankees don't pray for British monarchs (or maybe I've forgotten it).
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Jonathan, That counsellor gave my friend other advice which I considered harsh at the time too - For one, she told her to have her picture taken now - while she still looked good. This hard advice reminds me of Rodger 's visit with Mary Anne. What was he thinking? Could it be he was preparing her for the reality of what is Soon to come? I had a hard time understanding Rodger's intent - as well as with the things the counsellor had to say to my old friend.
Mary Anne seems to be preparing herself in her own way. One book, apart from the books they share in the Bookclub, Will says, goes everywhere with her. He says an old Harvard friend sent it to her. Though he thought it "somewhat ridiculous" at first, he writes, "It would change what was left of her life." I read with interest of this mother/son perspective on religion. Hitting close to home.
I've been reading the short entries for each date in Daily Strength for Daily Needs.. This is what Mary Ann would have read on March 9:
"whatever seeming calamity happens to you, if you thank and praise God for it, you turn it into a blessing. Could you, therefore, work miracles, you could not do more for yourself than by this thankful spirit; for it heals with a word speaking, and turns all that it touches into happiness."
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We're moving on to the next section today, but I'm curious about one thing in this section we didn't get to. For anyone who has read both Tolkien and C. S. Lewis' Narnia, do you like one and not the other? Or both? Why?
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"whatever seeming calamity happens to you, if you thank and praise God for it, you turn it into a blessing. Could you, therefore, work miracles, you could not do more for yourself than by this thankful spirit; for it heals with a word speaking, and turns all that it touches into happiness."
The March 9 thought fits in neatly with the Buddhist prayer about protecting your own happiness--controlling your happiness by setting your own terms on it.
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Pat, I was interested to hear Will's idea that people usually like one or the other but not both Tolkien and Narnia. I like both but Tolkien seems to me to take a bit more commitment from the reader since he packs more allusions into his works, especially Lord of the Rings.
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Jonathan, that surprised me too, that it was the young woman social worker who first mentioned the stage four cancer. And JoanP, I was surprised that someone like Rodger would say the harsh things that he did, and what the counsellor told your friend.
I’ve been reading in The Etiquette of Illness, and am getting more out of it now that the author has stopped telling us that she is an expert. One thing comes through loud and clear. When you learn or know of the illness of a friend, an acquaintance, a family member, a colleague, whatever – YOU MUST DO SOMETHING. Even if you don’t know what to do or what to say. And the author gives some wonderful examples of people who called when first learning a friend was ill and said, “I don’t know what to say,” And that’s all that was needed. If you don’t call, then write, send a card, but do something. The author gives several first person narratives, from those who were ill, and those who knew them. And she describes "illness responsibilities" (my words, for lack of a better one) for both the patient and those who cared about her.
Will tells us in one of the chapters how his mother beamed when people said they were praying for her, that she was on the prayer list.
I’ve been reading Daily Strength for Daily Needs for about a month now. While each day seems to focus on one topic – patience, duty, love – the overall theme seems to me that God is looking out for you, leave your concerns in his hands.
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'one book went everywhere with her'
Touching, isn't it, to read about Mary Anne and her worn, underlined little book of comfort, printed the year she was born.
'Other people had turned the pages, had put their own book marks in and taken them out. Was it crazy to think that all of them had somehow left on the pages traces of their own hopes and fears?...The underlining was meticulous, in blue pen, and the underliner...had either ceased underlining or ceased living after January 5. But she or he left an indelible mark. 90-1
Prayer books are wonderful things. Heathens don't know what they're missing. The author admits to being a heathen. To please his mother he tells her he's going to pray for her. And she beams, confident that his prayers will help her.
This is a very balanced book on a difficult subject. Is it the answer to Rodger's advice on the subject. Mary Anne is determined to do it her way. We also find her posting to her blog: '(I've) read an amazing book about life in prison in Burma called THE LIZARD CAGE by Karen Connelly, which makes one forget any problems here. I'm looking forward to going to The Messiah...at Avery Fisher Hall.'
I was going to post some glorious thoughts from a Jewish prayer book I have on my shelf. Perhaps some other time. I'm ecumenical. I also have The Diamons Sutra somewhere. And of course those Veda hymns the Hindus sing at sunrise. I have a Koran, but I'm not sure if there is a prayer book used by the faithful.
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Will may have said he was going to pray for his mother to please her, but he actually DID it, and got some comfort from it.
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I think we we're getting to know Will, nearly as much as we are about his mother. We're learning about her as Will tells us about the books she chooses to read for the book club. Imagine knowing you have only months to live. The books you'd choose to read would be those important to you. I know I'd be very selective.
Will writes:
"Mom had started to steer our book club toward certain books where Christian faith played an important role."
He thinks she's doing this because she gets comfort from reading them. I think this is partially true, but doesn't she also want to see Will's reaction - open a dialog on his own faith and principles? I find I am becoming more interested in his reaction to the books she suggests and looking for the reasoning behind the books he's selecting for her to read..
Mary Anne suggests Gilead - a book some of us discussed in 2005 - Archived discussion of Gilead 2005. See many old friends there - you, Pedln, Maryal, Babi..
Will wonders if maybe she wants him to read it because it is in the form of a letter from a dying parent to his son. It sure does open an interesting dialog.
(http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/archives/fiction/Gilead.htm)
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She's thinking of her son's well-being more than her own with her choice of books. And the prayers will help him more than her.
Thanks, I've totally missed that aspect of the Book Club. And that side of Mary Anne.
This discussion does bring back memories of many who took part over the years but have left us. Just to mention one. I believe her name was Lorrie. She was preparing to lead a discussion of MOBY DICK! I can't think of one without thinking of the other.
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Speaking of Marilynne Robinson's Gilead, and Geraldine Brooks' People of the Book, I wanted to share this with you - the National Book Festival is scheduled for Sept. 21, 22 on the mall in Washington, DC. Here's the growing LIST OF AUTHORS (http://www.loc.gov/bookfest/authors/) scheduled to attend and speak -
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Will thought he would go back to The Etiquette of Illness to see what it had to say about the subject of death. Halpern, a cancer victim/survivor herself, has a lot to say and gives short summaries about people in various situations.
It is important to allow the person facing imminent death to do as much of the planning and deciding as possible. p168
Only the essentials matter. Feelings that are not spoken on ordinary days may be expressed at the end of a life. p. 166
Through my work with people who are facing their death, I have found that most people want to have a conversation about their feelings, at some point. p.173
Much of what Halpern says is about taking cues from the patient, letting the patient know you are there for him/her. That is what Will did when his mother was asking Dr. O'Reilly questions about her recent scan. Mary Anne had said she was going to ask the doctor how much time she had left. The news was good. The tumors had shrunk, the chemo was working. "Do you have any other questions, Mom," Will prompted. Mary ANne was lost in thought, then -- "Oh yes, are you taking a holiday Dr O'Reilly?"
JoanP, thanks for putting up the link to Gilead. It was good to look it over, see familiar names. It's weird sometimes, the things we remember from books. The one thing I remembered from Gilead is that the little seven-year-old son memorized the Beatitudes for his father's birthday.
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Here's a list of all the books mentioned in this section.
Daily Strength for Daily Needs—Mary Wilder Tileston
Full Catastrophe Living—Jon Kabat-Zinn
Love, Medicine and Miracles—Bernie Siegal
Gilead—Marilynn Robinson
Housekeeping—“ “
A Fine Balance—Robinton Mistry
Dickens
Thackeray
Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith—Anne Lamott
People of the Book—Geraldine Brooks
Death in Venice and The Magic Mountain—Thomas Mann
March—Geraldine Brooks
(The Lizard Cage—Karen Connelly)
I Am Sorrow—Sindy Cheung
The Uncommon Reader—Alan Bennett
Felicia’s Journey—William Trevor
Donna Leon, Dennis Lehane, Colin Cotterill, Alexander McCall Smith
The Railway Children—Edith Nesbit
Swallows and Amazons—Arthur Ransome
Iris Murdoch
The Lizard Cage—Karen Connelly
Diary of a Young Girl—Anne Frank
Night—Elie Wiesel
A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier—Ishmael Beah
Brat Farrar—Josephine Tey
The Last Lecture—Randy Pausch
Jane Austen, T. S. Eliot, Wallace Stevens, Elizabeth Bishop
Collected Short Stories—W. Somerset Maugham
Three Men in a Boat—Jerome K. Jerome
The Talented Mr. Ripley—Patricia Highsmith
Continental Drift—Russell Banks
A Streetcar Named Desire—Tennessee Williams
The Painted Veil—W. Somerset Maugham
Purgatorio--Dante
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Thank you, Pat, for the list. It's a big help.
Jonathan, I missed that aspect, too, of the book -- Mary Anne is doing this for Will. Good point, JoanP.
I remember Lorrie. She also led discussions on The Lovely Bones and The Ladies of Covington. Lovely lady, very strong woman. Is it this book, bringing so many thoughts of those no longer with us?
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There is a sadness about the book. The Uncommon Reader chapter left me melancholy. I can take it on a conscious level, but my dreams were gloomy. There are so many curious corners of our nature that are looked into that one feels like going on. Even on something like how to read a book. Setting priorities like Mary Anne. Reading the ending first. After the third reference on page 150, I went back to the references on pages 17 and 124.
The first reference has Will saying: 'The great thing about knowing that my mother always read the end of books first was that I never had to worry about spoiling them.' Mary Anne replies vaguely that the characters may have wished for a different ending.
The second reference has Will asking his mother about her reaction to a terrifying tale. Was she surprised by the ending? 'Of course not - I'd read it first. I don't think I could have stood the suspense if I hadn't known what was going to happen. I'd have been too worried.'
And the third. Mary Anne says: 'I think it's much harder for me now to read silly things...If you read the ends first, you have much less patience for wasting time with that kind of book.'
Now, taken to a philosophical level, isn't it problematical that we are given life with no clue to its ending. Does anyone know a good fortune teller?
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I don't need a doctor, thank God. I saw my doctor this morning to hear the results of a blood test. Excellent, she told me. And I replied that keeps me on the roll since New Years. Dr C. found my eyes in good shape in January. A week later I aced my Senior Driving Test. In February Dr P. was pleased with the respiratory test and told me to enjoy life. My car passed its emissions test. And my blood is coursing through my veins like it's in the fast lane. Come to think of it...there was no one reading in the busy waiting room. I certainly didn't want to be seen reading my book!!
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Congratulations for ace-ing all those tests, Jonathan! You go right to the top of the class - the honor roll!
Just today at lunch, Bruce and I were having this philosophical discussion (for us) - about how we'd like a quick glimpse into the future, just a peek - so we'd know how to handle a situation. That's akin to reading the end of a book first, isn't it?
Jonathan, taken together, those are sad observations, aren't they? Do you detect a change in Mary Anne? I find myself empathizing with Will. He's the one who is making these observations. He's trying so hard to do the right thing, to follow all the suggestions about how to talk to his own mother. This must hurt. She's a little more difficult to get close to - to figure out how she is taking the situation. About reading the end of books first, she always did that before, this isn't anything new...
And another thing - after reading their conversations, I find I'm thinking more about myself too - and how prepared I am - to go. I find myself sorting my books - those I'll never read, too "silly" for the amount of time I might have left...
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He never follows up, remembering the Etiquette of Illness suggestions.
I'm a little late with my comment since we've moved on to the next set of chapters, but I was struck by the suggestions in the Etiquette of Illness (p. 44):
1. Ask "Do you want to talk about how you're feeling?" (Not how are you feeling?)
2. Don't ask if there's anything you can do. Suggest things, or if it's not intrusive, just do them.
3. You don't have to talk all the time. Sometimes just being there is enough.
I especially love the first suggestion. It gives people the chance to say they don't want to talk.
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Nancy - not only is Will picking up practical advice on how to talk to his mother, but we're learning a lot too, don't you think?
I like the third suggestion you posted - I always think I need to keep talking to fill silence and make conversation.
I came in just now to bring you today's entry in Daily Prayers for Daily Needs. This is the one book that Mary Anne goes to - more than any other. Do you think she left it on the coffee table with a bookmark on the page she wanted Will to read? I do.
Here's the entry for today. I'm really affected at the thought that these are the same pages that Mary Anne reflected over before she died.
“The circumstances of her life she could not alter, but she took them to the Lord, and handed them over into His management; and then she believed that He took it, and she left all the responsibility and the worry and anxiety with Him. As often as the anxieties returned she took them back; and the result was that, although the circumstances remained unchanged, her soul was kept in perfect peace in the midst of them. And the secret she found so effectual in her outward affairs, she found to be still more effectual in her inward ones, which were in truth even more utterly unmanageable. She abandoned her whole self to the Lord, with all that she was and all that she had; and, believing that He took that which she had committed to Him, she ceased to fret and worry, and her life became all sunshine in the gladness of belonging to Him. H. W. "
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"whatever seeming calamity happens to you, if you thank and praise God for it, you turn it into a blessing. Could you, therefore, work miracles, you could not do more for yourself than by this thankful spirit; for it heals with a word speaking, and turns all that it touches into happiness."
The March 9 thought fits in neatly with the Buddhist prayer about protecting your own happiness--controlling your happiness by setting your own terms on it.
I'm seeing a pattern here--the quotes above and today's daily prayer. These are lessons in setting your own parameters on your life.
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Now, taken to a philosophical level, isn't it problematical that we are given life with no clue to its ending. Does anyone know a good fortune teller?
Jonathan, do you really want one? The end of life is more than death or dying.
I’m reminded of Joseph Monniger’s book Eternal on the Water, whose characters Cobb and Mary face a different end of life. Mary knew she had Huntington’s Disease, but didn’t know when it was going to take over her life. And then there is Alice, in Lisa Genova’s Still Alice, diagnosed with early onset Alzheimers, wondering when she will no longer know who she is. Medical science is becoming more able to make predictions, but do we really want to know?
Twice now, Mary Anne has had good news from Dr O’Reilly. No new tumors, some tumors have shrunk. That’s wonderful news . More time. But it won’t change the ending.
Nancy, it's good to see you here. Your comment is not late at all.
Jonathan, That's such a good feeling, to pass those tests. Rejoice!
Closing words for March 11 – Daily Strength for Daily Needs
Now our wants and burdens leaving
To His care who cares for all,
Cease we fearing, cease we grieving,
At His touch our burdens fall.
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Quotes: 'as often as the anxieties returned', 'her soul was kept in perfect peace'.
The book is certainly a good portrayal of the drama of life. I'm enjoying the quotes from Daily Strengths for Daily Needs. And so many had used the little book before Mary Anne received it from her Harvard friend. Most of us can benefit from the helpful words of encouragement. Every culture and belief system has its own variation.
I've always enjoyed S. T. Coleridge's discovery of peace in what he called 'reverential resignation', in his poem 'The Pains of Sleep'. Unable to sleep, 'My spirit I to Love compose,/ In humble trust mine eye-lids close,/ With reverential resignation,/ No wish conceived, no thought exprest,/ Only a sense of supplication;/ A sense o'er all my soul imprest/ That I am weak, yet not unblest,/Since in me, round me, every where/Eternal Strength and Wisdom are.'
That's put me to sleep many times. It works. I'm also impressed by the heathen Will's method. With anxieties keeping him awake, he writes them down on his ready paper on his bedside table, turns off the light to deal with his problem in the morning. It seemed to work for him.
I like the thought that we should enjoy life the way we enjoy a mystery. Without spoilers, thank you.
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Books, books, books are all centering on religion, the spiritual..the bond gets tighter. Do you think that Mary Anne is becoming more religious because of her illness? What of Will? Is their Bookclub making him more aware of his spiritual side or is he simply interested in his mother's state of mind that he enters into these conversations with her? Did you notice him looking into her little Daily Needs book when she left the room? This little book is not a Bookclub selection, is it?
This is included in the March 12 entry:
“There is a faith in God, and a clear perception of His will and designs, and providence, and glory, which gives to its possessor a confidence and patience and sweet composure, under every varied and troubling aspect ."
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ps Did you notice Will taking in His parents' paintings, drawings AND "Mom and Dad's collection of pots by English and Japanese potters."
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
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Yes, I did notice, and I'm thinking what you're thinking.
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On a lighter note: at the end of "Uncommon Reader", Will imagines the grandchildren reading books that Mary Anne had loved. One of these is Swallows and Amazons, by Arthur Ransome. This is the first of a series of children's books about sailing, mostly set in the Lake District, but some in Scotland or other parts of England, and two in other parts of the world.
How I loved those books as a child! I read and reread them, and they gave me a lifelong love for the mechanics of sailing. I've reread them as an adult. The stories are for children (good stories though), but the sailing is still excellent.
They made me really want to learn to sail small boats, but life intervened, and I never got a chance until 2004. Then I took a Coast Guard course in theory, and shortly after a hands-on course in sailing on the Potomac River here, plus some lessons on the Charles River in Boston.
It was just in time, since I've gotten stiffer since, so it's too hard to do the rapid position shifts necessary. But at least I got a taste of it, for which I'm very grateful.
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JoanP, I don't think Mary ANne is getting more religious because of her illness. I think she has always found strength and comfort in worship and prayer. As for Will, he's not against it, it's just not for him. He sees it's value for his mother.
I'm not sure I know what you are thinking, regarding the pots and paintings.
Will spoke of things relative, like the story of the CIA man who spent over twenty years in a Chinese prison. He thought he could tolerate a five year sentence. Then when he heard so many being sentenced to death, he thought he could tolerate a life sentence. ANd Mary ANne thought she was luckier than Randy Pausch, the last lecturer who also had pancreatic cancer. He wouldn't see his children grow up and he'd never know grandchildren. Mary Anne thought "no new tumors would be great news."
Those examples remind me of another young man with pancreatic cancer, a boyhood member of my church, a radiologist with two young children who died at age 40. But before his death he gave a lecture to young people and church members and in it he told how much better his life became when he could go from two IV poles to one pole. That gave him the freedom to walk without assistance.
I cried because I had no shoes
Until a met a man who had no feet.
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I've nothing to back up the feeling that Mary Anne is turning more to the spiritual in her reading, Pedln - you may be right in saying she has always turned to the spiritual for strength and comfort. Maybe she wasn't in such need for comfort before this illness? It seems that Will is giving her books to read that deal with illness and adversity. Am I imagining that too? Is he hoping to get her talking about how she's feeling - and her mental state.
(I can't say that I am interested in such books right now.) When in Vero Beach he picked up Brat Farrar, though. I thought it a strange choice for him. It sounds like fun though- about murder, spies and life in a British country estate. But why did Will choose this book to share with his mother?
The author, Josephine Tey, had died of cancer shortly after she wrote this book. Maybe she reminds him of his mother- who is able to concentrate on her current project, because she has taken care of important matters before getting sick. This was a wake-up call to me - the way everything was in order - the living wills, all the legal paperwork. I need to approach my lawyer husband about this. I think he thinks we've got years before we need to think of these things...are you as prepared as the Schwalbes?
Wouldn't it be nice to have everything in order like that? Mary Anne is free to focus on her project - building that library in Afghanistan. I'd love to know what's going on there today, wouldn't you?
ps - about the Schwalbes' collection of little Japanese and English ceramic pots. We just finished reading The Hare with Amber Eyes by Edmund de Waal, who is a famous English ceramicist, who studied in Japan. His little pots are much sought after by collectors. Could it be?
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Whether or not Mary Anne is turning more to the spiritual, she is definitely gently nudging her son. It's having a slight effect, too; he's now praying for her.
Will picked up Brat Farrar because it was a "staff recommends" book, which the family took seriously. Then after Will read and liked it, Mary Anne read it.
IMHO, this is Josephine Tey's best book, and definitely something you want to read straight through, as Will did. The protagonist is involved in a scam, pretending to be the missing heir to an estate, who disappeared at age 13, leaving a cryptic note. He gets more and more bound up in trying to figure out what the boy was really like, and what happened to him, and there is mystery and suspense.
Why does Mary Anne think it’s silly? Maybe because all the characters are obsessed with horses—the right way to train them, the proper manners to use riding them, their personalities, etc. This isn’t frivolous; they are keeping the place solvent by training and breeding the horses, but if you aren’t willing to take their obsession seriously, you would find them silly.
I'd hate to lose the pleasure of suspense by reading the ending first, but I've reread the book with pleasure, so it still has merit when the suspense is gone.
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What about those pots -- it sounds like too much of a coincidence . Some must be de Wall's. (I've just tweeted Will, to ask. He might answer.)
Are all of you finding books to add to your TBR list? My bridge foursome has all read this book. And one checked out Brat Farrar right away, and now is reading Sweet Tooth by Ian McEwan. I'm going to add Brat Farrar to my list, have never read any Josephine Tey. I'll skip the McEwan. I really didn't care for his Atonement, and am not enamoured with On Chesil Beach, which I started because of Will's prompting.
I will add Brooks' People of the Book, another book where Will and Mary Anne don't see eye to eye .
Will: "I felt quite a lot of sympathy for Hannah's mom."
MA: "I didn't. . . . That's really not a good excuse for not being kind."
Mary Anne has much to say about kindness and it come's out in more than one chapter.
"I think everyone needs to be kind. . . .That's partly why I like Dr. O'Reilly so much more than the first oncologist I saw -- not because she's a woman, but because she's kind. . . . You can be gruff or abrupt and still be kind. Kindness has much more to do with what you do than how you do it. . . I didn't have sympathy for Hanna's mother. She was a doctor and a mother and she wasn't kind."
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We discussed People of the Book here. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it.
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Oh I agree, Pat - People of the Book is not to be missed! Do you really think Mary Anne Schwalbe didn't like the book? Simply because she didn't like the mother - who really had such a minor role in the story!
I had made up my mind to skip the Josephine Tey book after reading of Mary Anne's reaction to it. She didn't like it because she didn't like the characters, I thought. Couldn't relate to any of them. The Wodehouse on the other hand is "fun" - meaning, she liked the characters. When there is not much time left, you really don't want to spend your time with people you don't like, I guess. And this from a woman who likes about everyone she meets! Besides the horses, did you see anything not to like in Tey's characters?
Pedln, I've Sweet Tooth here - ready to go. Will let you know how it compares to Atonement, although I've heard the endings compared. No, I won't read the ending first, just to see if I'll like the beginning. :D
That's exciting - maybe you will hear back from Will! I noticed de Waal's quote on the back of The End of Your Life bookjacket. It made me wonder if Will mentioned the ceramic pots because he knew de Waal. Please tell me it wasn't because they share the same publisher. I'd rather believe Will's parents had collected de Waal's pots long before the diagnosis and Will's book!
In case you don't have the book jacket, here's what de Waal had to say:
"I was so moved by this marvelous book. Schwalbe has done something extraordinary: made a personal journey public in the most engaging, funny, and revealing way possible. It is a true meditation on what books can do." Edmund de Waal, author of The Hare with Amber Eyes
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'besides the horses'
I'll suggest that Mary Anne didn't like the imposter in the Tey book, trying so hard to be truthful herself. And she has been religious all her life. Will makes certain that we know that her feeling have always been in that direction. Her present circumstances have only intensified her feelings. When she was young she would write from London to a friend:'...and I've been going to church regularly on Sundays, because the services are so beautiful, and the choirs are so well trained, and there is a real peace and quiet about it.' p122
Can you imagine what it took to write this book?
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Can you give us a link to "People of the Book" discussion. I'd be very interested to see what you folks had to say about it.
Jean
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There you are, Jean! Hope you are catching up. I've been looking forward to your impressions of Will Schwalbe's book and his amazing mother.
Have you read The People of the Book? We had a really good discussion of that one in 2009. Here's a link to the entire archived discussion. I see old friends in that discussion who are no longer with us - Babi, Gumtree, Charlie - soreley missed, but their words live on in our archives.
http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=680.0
What is your notion of courage?
I just finished The Painted Veil chapter - and wonder how long it's been since I read any of Somerset Vaughn's novels. THe Painted Veil was chosen for the book club - because it was about doctors - and because Will is trying to get his mother to talk to him about her courage - and where she gets it from. The question above - when considering my own notiion of courage - has me comparing my own life with Mary Anne's. If this was fiction, it would be a whole different matter. The woman is bigger than life. After reading this chapter, I am so intimidated by her energy and her...charity. Maybe that was Mary Anne Schwalbe's very special gift - she was an inspiration to all she came into contact with. I find myself pondering - is it too late to do something more than I'm doing now?
Did you notice - the Harvard friend who gave her the Daily Prayers/Daily Needs book - was the same perosn who donated a million dollars to building the Afghanistan library! Honestly, this is not fiction! I really want to know what's going on with that library today.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
|
Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 9 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 16 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 16 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. Working with and helping refugees throughout the world was a significant part of last third of Mary Anne’s life. Have you had any experiences that involved refugees or other people in developing countries? If you were to become involved now, what would you choose to do?
2. Mary Anne shows Will a thank you card for condolences received, and tells him exactly how she wants it. Do you know anyone who's written his own obituary or planned his own funeral?
3. Jhumpa Lahiri skillfully describes the ways people communicate or don’t. What ways can you think of?
4.Do yoga and/or meditation have a place in your life? Will and his mother read Jon Kabat-Zinn's books on meditation and mindfulness. Do you have a favorite writer who deals with this subject?
5.“Loneliness is the price we have to pay for being born in this modern world, so full of freedom, independence, and our own egotistical selves.” How does Mary Anne deal with the possibility of loneliness? How do you?
6. Will and his siblings figured out their childhood by comparing notes as adults. If you have siblings, have you gained insight this way?
7. “A thank you note is...an opportunity to count your blessings.” Do you agree?
8. Feminist Eleanor Rathbone “had to figure out a life for herself”. Is this still true for women, or have things improved?
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
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Mary Anne really is bigger than life, isn't she? And he can't be exaggerating; it's all a matter of public record. One thing he does downplay is her bad days and uncomfortable symptoms. He says just enough in passing that you can figure out how much she must really be suffering.
JoanP, I get tired just thinking about all the things you do. One thing I'm very grateful for is the amount of time you spend on SeniorLearn. It's very time-consuming to do what you do, and it's crucial.
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'I'm feeling a little sad. I know there is a life everlasting - but I wanted to do so much more here.' p168
Isn't that inspiring? And she's 74, and still so active. Surprising Will at every turn. He's kept awake all night wondering if Continental Drift was a poor choice, while she was awake much of the night enthusiastically wondering to whom she could reccommend it. Her reading seems an opportunity to be made aware of the cruelties and evil in the world. Why close ones eyes to them?
'And what I love about Dickens is the way he presents all types of cruelty. You need to learn to recognize these things right from the start. Evil almost always starts with small cruelties.' p151
Shakespeare, too, is sensitizing. Consider the mischief started by Goneril tormenting her father King Lear, or Iago leading Othello on to murder.
Will writes about 'big-themed books that also tell a great story' He has written a pretty good one himself.
A minor detail. How did a million-dollar donor to a worthy cause come up with a battered, dog-eared old book of encouraging thoughts for his friend Mary Anne? Sounds like {People of the Book stuff to me.
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Let's say a prayer for Ella. Wasn't she having the eye surgery done today?
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I thought it was earlier, but extra prayers never hurt.
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Jonathan asks
Can you imagine what it took to write this book?
No, I can’t. Tough question. Tough to answer.
The emotional toll in writing this is huge. Every line that Will wrote is from reflecting on his mother, bringing thoughts from his past. We’ve seen him beat himself up a bit over books, over church, so I think he might encounter that again. We know there were more bad days that he didn’t write about, but writing about the good days is hard too. I hope the responses he’s received since publication have salved the distresses from the writing. Thousands of readers now know Mary Anne, what she stood for and what she accomplished.
I thought it was earlier, but extra prayers never hurt
I agree.
One of the questions in the heading asks "what is your notion of courage?" In the Painted Veil chapter Mary Anne says, "I think the other people who are brave are the ones who take unpopular stands." It makes one ask himself, "am I brave? Did I speak up? Did I keep my mouth shut?"
This chapter gives many examples of courage. Are you brave?
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Pedln, I'm looking again at Mary Anne's comments on "brave" in order to attempt to answer your question. Mary Anne really gets "cross" when people say she has "courage" doesn't she? She says it's the people who do things they don't want to do, but do so because they felt they had to do it, because it was the right thing to do. She says she is not one of these, because everything she does is because she wants to do them. Now that's something to think about.
As to her cancer, she says she's getting the most expensive care in the world. That's not brave - if really brave she'd do without the care - and give the money to research and preventative care.
I can't even think of comparing myself with this woman. No, I'm not all that brave.
Did you notice the fact that she is a breast cancer survivor too? Didn't look upon that as bad luck, but thought it good fortune that she survived. They say that people with her upbeat disposition are much more likely to count themselves among the survivors. I think it was more than good luck. Somehow, I find myself believing the book club will go on, that her cancer will continue to be "treatable" if not "curable"... Mary Anne Schwalbe is living her life, not waiting to die.
Raising money for that library in Kabul is one of the things she is passionate about right now. I've been looking for information on the library during these troubled times...
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Found this Interview with Will and a link that is fairly up to date - but not complete.
BBL: Throughout her illness, your mother worked very hard trying to get a library built in Afghanistan. What is the status on the project?
WS: Mom really wanted to help her friend Nancy Hatch Dupree fulfill her dream of building a national research and cultural center in Afghanistan on the grounds of Kabul University. I’m delighted to say that the building is finished and they are just fixing up the inside to get it ready. It should be fully open at the very end of this year or in the early part of 2013. Also, portable libraries have gone to more than 200 villages in all 34 provinces of Afghanistan. There’s great information on the Dupree Foundation at dupreefoundation.org.
And here's a video featuring Nancy Hatch Dupree at the Library (http://dupreefoundation.org/blog/?d=17)in January, 2013.
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Quote: 'It should be fully open at the very end of this year or in the early part of 2013.'
That will be a wonderful commencement. If only Mary Anne could be there.
Murder in the Cathedral. What a fascinating chapter. For the reader there is the strange feeling of being on holy ground, as mother and son talk about living and dying. It's as if Will feels part of himself dying as he observes his mother, reading 'the verbal and visual clues' in the 'gestures, tone and language' of her experssions. Mary Anne, however, is reminded of her college days and her happy part in the Harvard and Radcliffe production of the T. S. Eliot drama.
And now she really stars as she returns to Avery Fisher Hall to receive her honorary degree. Just a couple of months ago she had been there, taking in the glory of Handel's MESSIAH.
'Now the auditorium was packed with graduating students, in cap and gown, and their families, draped with cameras. Mom looked tiny behind the podium on the vast, brightly lit stage. She started her speech....' p178
What an emotional moment for Will: 'I couldn't stop crying...I thought about Mom's instructions....'
Commencement, the author seems to imply, is whatever you make of it, an end or a beginning. Mary Anne's last words to the students: get out and vote. More instructions!
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I've counted them. The author made use of 133 specified books and an additional 37 authors and poets, to write this book. Strange how he worked them all into his theme.
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Thanks for the update on the library, JoanP. That's a happy ending, even if Mary Anne didn't get to see it.
133 books plus 37 authors--thanks for counting, Jonathan. This section has the most obscure and unlikely book of the lot: Eton Repointed, about fixing grout.
Mary Anne is following Becket's model in this chapter: calm, although not enthusiastic, about accepting death when the time comes.
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There are new questions for the new section. Mary Anne is getting sicker, but her spirit is stronger than ever.
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That’s a marvelous video about Nancy Hatch Dupree, JoanP, and the work she has done in Afghanistan. How little we know about what has gone on and what is going on in some of these conuntries. It’s shocking to learn that China is going to mine copper on the site of an ancient monestary in Afghanistan. How close we came to losing knowledge about an ancient language. How fortunate that there are people who not only care, but have dedicated themselves not only to preserving antiquities, but to provide a means for others to learn about them.
In the video, Nancy Dupree talks about the digitalization project, which is now available online.. Link below.
http://www.afghandata.org/ (http://www.afghandata.org/)
Jonathan, thanks for counting. I hope to have a list of titles read and/or mentioned in this section -- tomorrow or Monday.
And yes, Will did respond to my Tweet with a direct message, whatever that is. “View the conversation” below.
@WillSch Your parents' Japanese and English ceramic pots -- were any made by ceramicist Edmund de Waal ? My book group is asking.
They were very lucky to be able to buy a few Edmund de Waal pots when he was young and starting out. His book is one of my favorites EVER
Those of you who have read deWaal's book, what do you think makes it one of Will's favorites.
I think the Schwalbes and de Waal knew one another.
Are you surprised or standing in awe at the diversity, the depth, and breadth of Will and Mary Anne's reading? I am, and am beginning to wonder if my reading adventures have been voluntarily circumscribed.
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Pat, I've added Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral to my TBR list - and feel it might be a good one for discussion here - what do you think? Can see where Mary Anne would find comfort in it now - Like Becket, "not happy about death but can accept it." She tells Will - "funeral and memorial services are just a part of life."
I'm really missing Babi, aren't you? I can imagine her comments on these passages.
Speaking of Memorial services - Babi's daughter was quite touched by the messages from those of us who wrote on the Memorial page here -
We love the messages . My brother added some of them to his eulogy for Mom so you all could be there with us . They will be very special reminders of the friends she had . I have a lot of books I will be needing to find homes for . I will get a list and put them in Senior learn when the time comes to see if anyone would like any of them .
I do know of people who plan their own funeral services - one friend even selected the pictures for the slideshow to be shown at her wake. Sometimes I think of hymns I'd like sung at my own service - and think of writing them down - someday.
But I've never heard of preprinted sympathy cards - engraved~ in blue ink! I guess if you are known world-wide, this would be a help to the family. Her concerns right now seem to be on her survivors.
That's what is attracting her to Jhumpa Lahire's books on immigrants and refuges - the emphasis on their children, their survivors.
- Will writes that these characters are telling each other important things - not necessarily in words - the gulf between what pople say and what they mean. That seems to be her purpose with this book club - to communicate with her survivor(s) - not necessarily in words. Do you think Will realized this at the time he was writing this book?
Pedln, I wasn't so surprised at the diversity in Will's reading - publishing has been the way he's made his living. It's HER! I suppose she was the catalyst in every group she ever joined - imagine what it would have been like to have her join our book club here! I wasn't surprised that her children turned out to be "bookish" too - but oh, what a wonder she was!
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It's been too long since I read Murder in the Cathedral--I remember almost nothing about it. I'll try to dig it up and have a look.
They have preprinted almost everything now, so I'm not surprised at preprinted thank-you-for-your-sympathy-card cards. But you notice that Mary Anne told Will to hand-write a note on each one referring specifically to what the person said in their note.
Yes, I miss Babi too.
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Here's a list of the books from the chapters in this section. I hope Ella will be back soon. She is quite interested in The Reluctant Fundamentalist and no doubt will want to comment on it.
JoanP, thank you for posting Valerie's comments about the memorial pages for Babi. I miss her too.
Murder in the Cathedral – T.S. Eliot
Interpreter of Maladies – Jhumpa Lahiri
Unaccustomed Earth
The Namesake
Wherever You Go, There You Are – Jon Kabat-Zinn
Full Catastrophe Living
Coming to Our Senses
World Through Mindfulness
Joseph and His Brothers – Thomas Mann
Death In Venice
Magic Mountain
Tonio Kroger
Mario and the Magician
Home – Marilyne Robinson
Kokoro – Natsume Soseki
“The Verger” – Somerset Maugham
The Price of Salt – Patricia Highsmith
Strangers on a Train
The Talented Mr. Ripley
Big Russ and Me – Tim Russert
The Duke of Deception – Geoffrey Wolff
The Great Santini – Pat Conroy
The Color of Water – James McBride
The Tender Bar – J. R. Moehringer
A Handbook for Constructive Living – David Reynolds
The Reluctant Fundamentalist -- Mohsin Hamid
The Year of Magical Thinking – Joan Didion
Olive Kitteridge – Elizabeth Strout
In Other Rooms, Other Wonders – Daniyal Mueenuddin
Girls Like Us – Sheila Weller
The Bolter – Frances Osborne
Saint Joan – George Bernard Shaw
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I keep expecting to see a post from Babi.
I have two sisters. Mary and Anne. Mary died very suddenly several years ago. Anne suffers from Parkinsons, but 'carrrys on' like Mary Anne.
Thanks, Pedln, for the impressive list of titles. How interesting to puzzle over each one to find the reason for its inclusion. There must be something significant about each to find a place in the life and death of Mary Anne.
Murder in the Cathedral is a good example. Somehow I feel that Becket's death had little meaning for MA. Of course she admired his moral courage, but I can't see her admiring his accepting death as an example for herself. She was too much of a fighter. She simply would not give up.
The next chapter, Wherever You Go, is a heartbreaking account of her fight with the angel of death. Try this. Try that. Yoga and meditation. Chemo and prayer. Ritalin and politics. The drive to continue doing what needs doing.
But Murder in the Cathedral, I believe, was just fun to remember. And Obama's win put her on a high for a week.
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I think Mary Anne is seeing Becket's attitude towards death as a model for the future, not for now. She's still fighting, but she knows she will have to give up sometime. She says "He's also able to accept death. He's not happy about it, but he's perfectly calm. When I stop this treatment, it will be because it's time to stop."
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Jonathan, how interesting that your sisters carry the same names as our heroine. Have you read Mary McFadden’s So Happy Together? That was one of the books, along with Bruce Frankel’s that we read for out SeniorLearn trip to New York a few years ago. The protagonist’s father has Parkinsons, and while he was not a main character there was quite a bit about his illness and the coping techniques he and family members used.
I’ve been thinking a lot of Will’s question about going to a funeral service and Mary Anne’s answer – “If you need to think about whether you should go or not, you should go. But if you can’t go, you can’t. Then you write a nice note as soon as you can.” A friend of a friend died this week, and I could not go to either the visitation or service, both today. The obituary was much more informative about her life than is usual for our local paper, but what struck me was that her husband was the only named survivor. She was an only child, she and her husband lost their only child a few years ago. I will write a “nice note.” But I wonder if the husband understands and who will take care of him.
The NY Times writes obituaries that are fascinating (I sent an investment club buddy a copy of Lillian Cahn’s obit – she helped found Coach, and the club just bought some) and thought they might have an obit for Mary Anne, but no, but paid death notices, yes, from the two day schools in NY and from the Women’s Rescue Commission.
However, the London Times had a very nice one, and in addition to a summary of her life, showed the world a glimpse of the real Mary Anne.
Mary Anne (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/obituaries/article2086432.ece)
This dynamo of energy was contained in a small, quiet, smiling elegantly dressed woman, who could appear as conventional as a lady who lunches, but who travelled the world, often in desperately trying circumstances; her journeys included being an electoral observer in the Balkans, as well as being shot at in Afghanistan.
She was sustained by a strong faith and was an elder of the Madison Avenue Presbyterian Church, but she never proselytised or imposed. Her implacable goodness was leavened by a sharp realism, and a subtle wit. She had an ineffable charm, and a lightness of touch.
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Pedln, fresh from the advice in The Etiquette of Illness, I would say YES, write the nice note. It doesn't matter if it's awkward, the gesture matters. If you know the husband well, call him, say whatever you can, but if you don't know him that well, the nice note is it.
Did you notice the term implacable goodness in your obit excerpt?
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quote: 'Will’s question about going to a funeral service and Mary Anne’s answer''
The answer, imo, is classy but evasive. I took the question as a probe to discover Mary Anne's physical and emotional resources to attend the funeral of a friend. How would it affect her? Hardly necessary, since her resources were great obviously. But the son is constantly wondering about her ability to handle dinners and parties. Very well as it turns out. I had to wonder about Will's problems with the birthday party at Daisy May's on Eleventh Avenue. He got himself into a panic over the seating arrangement and other details, with visions of a family fiasco at Disney World.
Thanks, Pat, for the evidence to support your view of the significance of Beckett's death for Mary Anne, but I'm still hung up on her love for the theater and the memory of her part in the college production of the play. When to quit was no option for Beckett, as it is for Mary Anne.
Thanks, Pedln, for the link to the London Times obit. I could only get the first two paragraphs. Do I have to subscribe. I would love to know more about her amazingingly busy life. There must be thousands of colleagues and friends who are reading this book with great interest. I wonder what they think of it.
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I wonder what they think of it.
My guess: they're each thinking Will left out some aspect of her life they knew about, while at the same time thinking "I never knew that about her".
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'The answer, imo, is classy but evasive. I took the question as a probe to discover Mary Anne's physical and emotional resources...'
Jonathan, don't you think Will is getting better at interpreting his mother's feelings? - he's learning to listen and observe. He writes about "Lahiri's skill in capturing subtle ways people communicate - or don't...
The gulf between what people say and what they mean."
Such observation takes an attentive listener. Mary Anne is teaching him this - when she says the doctor will "let them now" - rather than "tell them" when it is time...
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Pedln, I meant to thank you for posting Will's response regarding Edmund de Waal's ceramic pots. Don't you love the way we're picking up these things from previous discussions? And wasn't it fun to get a personal note from the author?
What did you think of Will's choice for a second career, his new venture? - a cooking website! That made me realize that I really don't know him very well at all. Need to peck around to see what's up with that.
A rather cold rainy night here in Arlington. I intend to curl up with Mann's Death in Venice and see if I recognize any of the Venice I once visited. Not Joseph and His Brothers - will save that for the day I come upon some ritalin.
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A follow up on the tangent - Will's cooking website actually did get started, at www.cookstr.com
Will Schwalbe, Founder and Chairman of the Board. Will left his job as SVP and Editor in Chief of Hyperion Books to found Cookstr and served as its CEO until March 2011
Although the Internet is already flooded with recipes, Will Schwalbe, who stepped down as editor in chief of Hyperion Books in January, is starting Cookstr to showcase the recipes of star chefs like Jamie Oliver, Nigella Lawson and Mario Batali, as well as those of less-well-known but highly regarded cookbook writers. The idea, ultimately, is to sell copies of these authors’ books.
"Our Mission
Cookstr’s mission is to organize the world‘s best cookbooks and recipes and make them universally accessible.
We are setting the standard for innovation in the delivery of 100% trusted, tested, recipes to home cooks around the world. Our online recipe library offers thousands of recipes by hundreds of the top chefs and cookbook authors, that are free for everyone on Cookstr.com. This year alone, Cookstr.com powered recipe searches in over 20,000 cities and 200 countries!"
I'm not sure what Will's role in Cookstr is right now - or what he is doing. Will keep looking.
Off to Venice and Thomas Mann. What are you reading?
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It sounds like he's easing out of cookstr. As probably the resident cookbook maven (I read cookbooks for pleasure, own five shelves worth, and try new recipes a lot) I checked out the site. It's kind of overwhelming in terms of quantity, but looks very good indeed. I spot-checked three recipes I was familiar with, and they looked good--workable and complete. They are assigned difficulty levels, cost levels, and time of preparation. I particularly like the complete nutritional information for each recipe. You can sort by many parameters in your browsing. There's a huge list of recipe contributers; with a spot check, I noticed a local (DC) restaurant dessert chef who gets good reviews wherever she goes. (JoanP, it's Anne Amernick. I see she's written a book, which I didn't know.)
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Jonathan, I'm sorry you couldn't read the entire obit. Yesterday it was fine, but apparently after one visit you must subscribe. At least that was my experience today.
Pat, you've done a great analysis of Will's Cookstr.Com site. I've visited it a few times and have actually made one of the recipes -- Tuscan Bean Soup, which was quite tasty -- and am ready to try Lentils in Red Wine. I was having trouble manipulating the data base and a member of the team was quite helpful. P. 183 -- Will talking about the new venture.
One of my friends who has also read the book has tried Cookstr as well and we both were asking each the same question -- how does Will make a living from this? In the book he mentions his two partners and also says he has poured much of his savings into this venture. And in the final section we see him in California meeting with the venture capitalists.
Do you find yourselves applying things from the book to things in your life? I do.
Today I played a monthly marathon bridge game and the opposing couple was one I've known for years. Now in their 80's they live in a nice retirement facility, but prior to that they lived in an old Victorian maintained in pristine condition. They've travelled the world, much through his membership in Rotary, made a point to attend every city council and school board meeting and most local artistic performances, and for years chaired the church mission committee. Whatever was going on, they were a part of it. So today I watched them climb the steps to my porch and front door. She's had hip replacement, still bothered by it. He's over 6'6", uses a very tall ski pole for balance, wears an orthopedic shoe that's three times the size of a normal shoe, and has braces on his ankles. And I thought (holding my breath), as I watched them leave, clinging for dear life to the railing, "the lessons of Mary Anne -- you carry on, you just do it."
JoanP, I love all the connections we find in our reading here. Perhaps they're the "little bursts" that Olive Kitteridge speaks of. Like Mildred Dunnock from the Brearley School, who went on to star on Broadway as the wife of Willie Loman. Like learning about David Rohde, his kidnapping and eventual release. Not to mention all the books.
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How do you make a living from cookstr? They seem to sell ebooks, but there aren't any details. Maybe there is a charge for putting recipes on the site? or a Commission from sales of the cookbooks quoted? It seems pretty precarious.
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In the chapter "Wherever you go there you are", Will talks about the Prodigal Son, and his feelings of jealousy and unfairness, that a fuss should be made over the bad son, while the good son was taken for granted. I always felt that unfairness too (not personally; neither of us was prodigal, and our parents treated us evenhandedly). But a few years ago I ran across a sermon that partly explained things. The prodigal had asked for his inheritance. In that culture, this was a totally unacceptable thing to do--the equivalent of writing off your father as dead--and someone who did such a thing would be ostracized. It was absolutely necessary for the father to make such a show over his son in order for him to be accepted at all; it was a clever ploy of reinstatement.
I still sympathize with the good son, though.
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As the mother of four sons, I have to say if any one of them, especially the youngest, had behaved as the prodigal, I'd still have welcomed him home - with open arms. So would his father. Not so sure about his older brothers. ;)
I was surprised to hear Will consider brother Doug as the prodigal son, weren't you? First born - churchgoer, big family man. I guess we really don't know him like we know Will. I'd forgotten how that story came up here - reread and see that Will and Mom were reading Marilynne Robinson's book, Home - the story of a prodigal - and Doug points out that Mom had finally got Will to discuss a biblical story.
Last night I made some headway into Thomas Mann's Death in Venice. It's only 76 pages - did you know that? It took me a while to get into it - but once Ashchenbach got on the boat for Venice, it was clear sailing. The first pages I had to read each paragraph several times to grasp the meaning. I later remembered Mary Anne telling Will to skip the early pages of Joseph and his Brothers and then go back and reread opening pages later. Same thing. I'm not in far enough to see how the theme works itself into Will's theme - Ashchenbach is making this trip to Venice outside of Germany alone - something he's been dreaming of doing before he dies...
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Have you read a good cookbook lately? How I would like to look over your five shelves, Pat. There's a cookbook that I have been looking for, for many years. The best cookbook ever written, I've been told. By the famous French writer, Dumas. (Three Musketeers, Count of Monte Cristo, etc.) With dinner in mind, he starts out with the reader, takes him to Les Halles for the careful selection of assorted ingredients...it's mouth-watering from cover to cover. Have you got it.
There must be lots else on your shelves. For example: 'a few years ago I ran across a sermon'. I keep wondering where that may have been. Was it in Hay-on Wye, in England, with its many bookstores? I spent a day there once. One can't help but run into them there. Many 19c stuff, when every preacher published his sermons. Charing Cross was more fun. I was directed to a lower floor. I could hear the Underground rumbling by, under my feet. A few more floors down, and I could hear it rumbling overhead.
What hasn't been made of the prodigal theme. Intended to make one feel homesick. And at home, what joy! As they say, there is more joy in heaven over the return of black sheep, lost sheep, penitent sinners....Prayers from same, especially welcome.
I thought it was Will who thought of himself as the prodigal, who ran off to Hong Kong, and who was wished back in the fold. There is a thread of tension that runs through the book. I don't know what to make of the scene with Curt at the care center. Will gets impatient with his mother. Is he jealous of Curt? Why would Curt remind him of Mussolini, with his jutting jaw?
Today is a time to remember. Mother's 111th birthday. She set out on a long journey, 38 years ago. And never returned. Love you, Mom.
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I just brought three more home to read. The Olive Kitteridge. The Moonstone, in case that's chosen. I have the other two. And, Slavomir Rawicz's The Long Walk, away from Stalin's gulags. Some of my family did that.
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Jonathon, I appreciate your mentioning the tension in this story.
Although I did see touches of an Ode To My Mother, I began to feel that this book was a bit of a mea culpa for Will.
Unfortunately, my copy was due back to the library for the final time and I don't have it here to consult for specific examples.
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Callie, and Jonathan, you're picking up on nuances I hadn't noticed; I'll look for them. It must be hard not to have the book anymore. It's so full of detail that I find myself referring back to it a lot.
Jonathan, I didn't run across the sermon in a book. Some years ago, when my daughter lived in San Francisco, the church she went to had a remarkable minister. When I visited, I would make it a point to go to church because I wanted to hear the sermon. I bet that's not a common reaction to going to church, but every one of her sermons had something of interest in it, and most of them addressed problems that I had been thinking about. I found that particular sermon on a church website.
I hadn't heard of the Dumas cookbook, but you have me yearning; he was indeed famous as a gourmet. One oddity I have is French Cooking in Ten Minutes, 1930, by Edouard de Pomaine. He was a scientist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, author of many cookbooks. The premise of this one is: you walk into your apartment with an hour for lunch (which in France is a more dinner-like meal) you want to cook lunch, eat it, and still have half an hour to sit drinking your coffee. Plus you have a two-burner gas stove. Plus you want at least a two course meal, maybe more. You walk into your apartment, put a pot of water on to boil (you know you will want it for something) and get going. He produces some surprising results, and he's amusing too. "White sauce. This is a horrible sauce. Fortunately, you can add whatever you like to it and transform it into a very nice one."
For lush writing about food, Elizabeth David is great, and I also use many of her recipes; Ludwig Bemmelmans and Joseph Wechberg are good for reminiscences.
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Jonathan, it sounds like you have a story there, with your family walking away from Stalin’s gulags. And what a lovely tribute to your mother.
Callie, don’t worry about specific examples from the book. We’re just glad to see you here and hear what you think about the book. I like your “ode to the mother” touch and tend to agree. But I think it’s more than that too, more Meet my mother, get to know her.
Hay-on-Why. A good one for the bucket list. How lucky for you Jonathan to spend a day there. Several years ago SeniorNet read Paul Collins’ Sixpence House, about his family’s experiences when they spent a year in Hay-on-Why. Every so often one hears rumors that the man who started Hay-on-Why is going to start another book town in the US, last I heard was somewhere in Nebraska. I’d go.
Pat and Jonathan, SUNY at StoneyBrook is where you want to go for cookbooks – the largest and most important collection in the country.
Slashfood: What makes The Fales Library Food Studies Collection the largest and most important in the country?
Marvin J. Taylor: First, sheer size. We hold more volumes than any of the other collections. It's most important because our collection looks at food from a cultural standpoint, not just from nutrition, science, women's studies, etcetera, but from all these viewpoints at once.
How many cookbooks are in the collection?
MJT: I'm not sure, but we estimate that there are 55,000 volumes and counting.
Read more:America's Largest Cookbook Collection (http://www.slashfood.com/2011/03/01/americas-largest-cookbook-collection/#ixzz2O2fagSyW)
Pat, it sounds like you have some interesting reading on your shelf. Bemmelmans? Madelaine?
I keep thinking back to Sister Mater from Thailand, the nun who copied down all the addresses from the postcards that Mary Anne’s student had asked her to send. Was it just by chance that Mary Anne responded to the first piece of correspondence from Sister Mater, which in time led to her involvement with refugees in other parts of the world. Did she always read all charitble requests that she received? Do you? I know I don’t.
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Have been reading the book and have been reading all your comments, but haven't posted very much. I just don't seem to have much to say. Huuummm, that's unusual. :) Why is that? Is it the topic? Is it bcs i have a SIL with pancreatic cancer? Is it that i don't want to be a downer. You all seem to be enjoying the book so much and i'm glad for that. I just can't identify w/ either of these characters, except that we will all die. Only a couple of the books have ended up on my TBR list. As has been said on annother of the SL sites, i'm longing for something lighter in my reading just now than what Mary Ann and Will are reading.
As someone else said, Mary Ann's life is overwhelming and exhausting to me. I have never had the ambition, or the urge for that kind of adventure, or the opportunity to be a world traveler, or to be involved in world wide issues, or had the money to do so, or the opportunity to know people who did. I feel like i do when watching any of the reality shows - like they are an anthropological study for me, i would not make any of the decisions for my life that they are making. That's not a judgmental statement, just one of fact. I often say "I don't want to do that (go into bug invested jungles to study the gorillas for ex) but i'm really glad someone wants to do it."
There is one piece that got me thinking - the discussion of courage and how we do things that other people see as hard to do or even courageous. There have been actions that i've taken in my life that others have said "you do that so well", or "i couldn't do that, you're brave to do that." To me it just seemed like the thing to do, or i think that when we have talent for some tasks, it doesn't seem so difficult or brave to do them. I'm sure each of you has had the same experience about something in your lives.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad i'm reading the book and am enjoying your comments. One of the nicest things about SL is to have the perceptions of persons who have had very different lives and experiences than i have had.
Jean
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That's a very thoughtful post, Jean. With many thoughts that have passed through all our minds, surely. All of us, surely, have been in a similiar situation, or been close to others travelling that dark valley. All the more reason, it seems to me, to be impressed by what Will Schwalbe has done with a doleful subject. I forget the page, but at one point he thinks out loud, and wonders what he's writing about: living or dying. I find it amazing how he walks the fine edge dividing celebration and sorrow, between fond memory and gloomy prospect.
Read on. It's therapeutic.
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Pat, aren't sermons an art form. And cultures can be judged by the preachers they call forth. For many it has been the only theater available to them. I often wonder why the preacher didn't make it to Shakespeare's 'all the world's a stage.
I'm reading a fascinating book, just out, about religion in American war and diplomacy, covering four hundred years. It has promise of being a modern de Tocqueville look at an aspect of American life. What I find interesting is the use the author makes of sermons preached by eminent practitioners.
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Why, of course. For Shakespeare, preaching was the competition.
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We've heard from Ella! Her corneal transplant has gone very well - she just needs to take it easy and be very careful. Hopefully, she'll be back to us soon.
And Jean, so glad to hear from you. Sorry to hear about your friend. It must be very difficult reading about Mary Anne Schwalbe at this time. I agree with Jonathan, we are all finding her bigger than life - and like you, very difficult to relate to her. We just don't know people like this - before or after such a diagnosis. I do find that I'm learning ways to prepare - on a much lesser scale, of course. While admitting at the same time, that I will NEVER have the projects that MA Schwalbe has to keep her occupied.
And such a support system! A close, tight-knit devoted family, friends - (maybe too many friends?) - her yoga, mindfulness, religious conviction. Honestly, who among us has ever known a woman like this?
Pedln, no, I don't open most of such mail...let alone respond with a letter as Mary Anne did to Sister Mater. I admit to having a difficult time tossing requests for helping kids - Indian children's schooling Father Flannigan's Boys Town, Easter Seals, the list goes on. Mary Anne Schwalbe would be writing letters to each who sent her such requests.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 9 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 16 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish]
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. If Will hadn't known that there was little time left in which his mother could see the results, do you think Will would have quit his job and started his website?
2. When they see an apartment, Will and Mary Anne imagine how they would live in it. Do you do that?
3. Although momentarily dismayed, the Schwalbes accept Will's gayness (and later that of his sister) with love and support. How would you feel in such a situation?
4. Christopher Isherwood's Christopher and His Kind helped Will make sense of his life. What books have done that for you?
5. "Everyone doesn't have to do everything" Mary Ann says of her lack of creativity. Where do you concentrate your efforts?
Windup: What will you bring away from this book--books to read, things learned, resolutions made, ways of looking at things, etc?
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
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A quick question - does anyone remember the reason Mary Anne wants Will to stick with Thomas Mann's Joseph and His Brothers? Was it along the same line as the jealous elder brother of the prodigal - Joseph's jealous brothers and their resentment because his father loved him more? How does this fit? Is Mom trying to assuage Will's feelings in some way?
Last night I finished Mann's Death in Venice. That is one strange book - and I'm not exactly sure what happened at the end, except that the old man died. Has anyone read it? What happened to the young boy? If you don't know - or don't want to give that away, can you explain the message, the meaning of the story?
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I don't open many appeals either, but they aren't from nuns in Thailand; they're all known quantities. At intervals I contribute to the same few.
The only Thomas Mann I've read is Buddenbrooks. It's long, but I read it straight through in about two days. It's about the decline of a family of German merchants over several generations in the 1800s, and a picture of the society. The characters have leitmotifs, as though they were in a Wagnerian opera. I've tried to read The Confessions of Felix Krull, Confidence Trickster, but I dislike the main character too much to get into it.
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That's good news about Ella and her surgery. I hope we'll see her here soon.
Jean, it’s good to see you here. And we’re always happy to hear what you have to say because it’s always something worth hearing. I doubt very much that you’d be a downer. Just out of curiosity, what are the books that made the cut to your TBR list? I hope at some time to read some of Josephine Tey and John O’Hara, authors mentioned early on, and perhaps dip into some of the suggested short stories.,
Mary Anne’s life certainly is overwhelming, but I think that we have seen certain aspects of her life show up in others, even though most would not follow the paths she has taken.
There have been actions that i've taken in my life that others have said "you do that so well", or "i couldn't do that, you're brave to do that." To me it just seemed like the thing to do, or i think that when we have talent for some tasks, it doesn't seem so difficult or brave to do them.
(Jean)
And that demonstrates a trait of Mary Anne’s that has come up more than once. When something needs to be done, and she thinks she can do it, she does it, without fanfare and what-have-you. “No, sometimes I don’t [want to meet people], but it’s not very hard to make yourself.”
Many have said, “oh, that book sounds so depressing,” and I agree that it can be sad. But I think that Will has done well in keeping the sad things, the bad things, at bay. They’re there, but are kind of a backdrop – “On, not so good today.” but then goes on to tell about family plans and what others are doing.
This isn’t a defense of the book as it doesn’t need it. In some ways Mary Anne is a role model. It’s just opinion, but I think this is a wonderful book for young women to read because it portrays a strong woman who, without fanfare, accomplished much in her life. And there are lessons to be learned here. I must recommend it to my recent college grad granddaughter, starting her adult working life with a consulting firm, currently working with a humanitarian foundation.
Re: Will. I find it amazing how he walks the fine edge dividing celebration and sorrow, between fond memory and gloomy prospect.
How true, and you say it so well, Jonathan.
A close, tight-knit devoted family, friends - (maybe too many friends?) - her yoga, mindfulness, religious conviction. Honestly, who among us has ever known a woman like this?
Look around you, JoanP, and you will see. I lost a very good friend to Stage 4 lung cancer a little over a year ago. Never smoked. Diagnosed in Sept., gone in Dec. I see lots of glimpses of her in this book. She was always reaching out to others and to her community. A few years ago she broke her right wrist. When it was time to get all the wrappings off, I drove her to the doctor. When that was done she said she wanted to go to her hairdresser who lived out in the country. I offered to take her, to little avail. She would drive herself! No problem! She told me later she couldn’t turn the key on and for several weeks afterwards had to use her left hand to do so.
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Good morning. Reading the morning Twitter news – how the mind goes click, click, click from one thought to another. Just finished the article about the gene therapy break-through in treating leukemia patients at Sloan-Kettering.
No, the article did not mention Dr. O’Reilly – her area of expertise is another cancer, but here is a picture and short bio of the doctor described by Will as tiny, with blue eyes and Irish.
The Doctor (http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/doctor/eileen-o-reilly)
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Well she certainly fits, though I had imagined her with dark hair. She's pretty impressive.
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I think Dr. O'Reilly looks exactly as I pictured her, Pat. Good on you for finding the photo, Pedln. Can't you just imagine the smiles lighting up the two faces - the doctor and Mary Ann
e Schwalbe's? Electric!
I've been thinking of the question about loneliness - "How does Mary Anne deal with the possibility of loneliness?" First off, I can't imagine her having to "deal" with loneliness. But I suppose everyone is lonely sometimes. I get lonelier with the loss of each dear friend. Not desperate or really down, but there are times I want to pick up the phone and talk to one of them about something we always laughed and talked about - only to realize the void all over again. My little world seems to be shrinking as the years go by and I realize I'm doing nothing to expand it.
How does Mary Anne deal with this? Her world is so full of people - it's exhausting to read about sometimes. For one thing, she reads a lot - learns about people, and makes new friends that way. Probably contacts authors too, don't you think?
And then there are all the people she meets each day. Will comments about the fact that she's always stopping to smile and talk to strangers. He asks her if she doesn't ever want to be quiet - and alone. I think we could learn a lesson from Mary Anne - constantly open and aware of others - talking to them, and perhaps making a new friend. A friend a day... Isn't that Mary Anne's motto? I'm going to try it - start with a smile. Will let you know the reaction when I get back. :D
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Right, JoanP, Mary Anne deals with the possibility of loneliness by making it impossible--always making new friends, taking care of the old friendships by putting effort into them. If anything, she has the opposite problem from loneliness.
I'm kind of an opposite to Mary Anne. I'm a fairly solitary type, and don't mind being alone a lot of the time so long as I have a few good friends and a certain amount of casual social contact.
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Mary Anne and loneliness? Unthinkable. For most of her life. Even now, at the end, innundated with cards, letters and flowers from her many friends and students. What a life. She couldn't have had time to feel lonely. And what a reader. She loved Dickens for what he taught her about life. And I started thinking.
I've also started reading Suite Francaise. It begins with the refugees fleeing Paris, which is underattack. One is a mother thinking of her son somewhere in battle. She remembers him saying to her once: "It's your Dickensian spirit, Mother." The author explains that by saying: "She had always taught him to see the funny and moving side of people. She liked to laugh and felt sympathy for others."
Reading about Mary Anne's busy life, I have to wonder how Dickens might have immortalized her. Mrs Jellybe of Bleak House fame comes to mind.
Among her dying words to Will: If you guys fight after I'm gone, I'm coming back.
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Thanks, Pedln, for the link to the photo of Dr O'Reilly. Very interesting, after reading about her professional role in Mary Anne's sickness. What a caring look in that wonderful Irish face.
And talking about Ireland. My teenage granddaughter is due back from Ireland in an hour or so. After marching with her band in the ST Patricks day parade in Dublin, and assorted concerts all week long. They are one smart marching band.
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Pedln, So far the books now on my TBR list bcs of this book are Appointment in Smarra, Man Gone Down and People of the Book.
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What a thrill for your granddaughter, Jonathan, to travel to Ireland to be in Dublin’s St Patrick’s Day parade. And for her grandfather, too.
Mary Anne asks, “How can you be lonely, when there are always people who want to share their stories with you, . . . and tell you about their lives and dreams.”
The teacher in Soseki’s Kokoro says, “Loneliness is the price we have to pay for being born in this modern world, so full of freedom, independence and our own egotistical selves” In 1914!!! One might think he was referring to a world 99 years later.
My brother has done very well as a widower for the past 10 or 12 years, and I think, as Pat has said about herself, that both he and I are happy or at least content pursuing solitary activities, not the least of which is reading. My hearing keeps declining and my captioned landline phone is a big help. That technology has not yet reached the mobile phone industry and it doesn’t really bother me that much, but everyone else has one and expects you to have one too.
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Jean, we were posting close together. Yes, People of the Book -- I'm really sorry now that I did not read it with the SeniorLearn group, but certainly want to someday. And, would you believe, I have Man Gone Down checked out from the library. But I've been reading On Chesil Beach, which I'm liking better than when I first started it, so have neglected the other.
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People of the Book - now that was a book! I strongly recommend that you check out our Archived SeniorLearn discussion as you read the book - lots of great points, links to photos, etc. in there at your fingertips!
Jean, I just picked up Appointment at Samarra from the library yesterday - read the first 50 pages last night. I wonder what you will think of the women in this book. I'm also wondering how Somerset Maughnn's story of the appointment with death will tie into O'Hara's novel - I was struck by the fact this was O'Hara's first novel - first of many. AND considered to be his best! I think that's sad. Reading it, I'm reminded, once again why I never would made it as a writer. I'm reading his story, but his written expression keeps distracting me - simply marvelous.
I'm looking forward to hearing your reactions to Man Gone Down. It didn't make my TBR list. Should it be?
Jonathan - I'm looking forward to hearing your granddaughter's reaction to St. Patrick's Day in Ireland - having been in Dublin several years ago for that once in a lifetime experience!
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Reading O'Hara, I'm reminded how far women have come since the thirties/forties when he was writing. I'm wondering how feminists view him today. We're reading of Mary Anne's role as wife, Mom, friend, grandma - and extensive volunteer work during her last months. I'm exhausted reading about the way she soldiers on - travelling abroad (with difficulty), riding the bus to doctor appointments,unescorted, working in her office at the International Rescue Committee. She's 75, she's 18 months into her diagnosis of a terminal cancer.
I notice the book club books seem to be centering on feminists - on women who refuse to accept limitations. Shaw's St. Joan Susan Pedersen's biography of Eleanor Rathbone.
Mary Anne has always been a trailblazer - first woman president of the Harvard Faculty Club, first female Director of Admissions to Radcliff/Harvard, etc. etc.
Now her concerns are for the generation that follows. She's concerned about "the special burden" on them (?) She writes of their choices and opportunities. She writes of how exhausted she was as a young woman, trying to be the working mother - trying to do it all. She concludes that today's woman can do it too - but only with help. What of those women who don't have help? Is that what worries Mary Anne?
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Did you notice that a lot of people, when they realized Mary Ann was dying, stopped touching her, and didn't talk to her directly, but addressed the person with her instead?
This phenomenon is very familiar to wheelchair users; JoanK often has this problem. When she was buying her condo, it was perfectly plain that she was the person who had the money, and was the one making the decision, but her real estate agent would talk to Joan's son, or caregiver, or whoever was with her, sometimes where Joan couldn't even hear them. Finally Joan said "any conversation that doesn't include me hasn't happened as far as this transaction goes." That made things a little better.
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Good for JoanK for setting people straight. I've heard others complain about the same situation. I think in Mary Anne's case that people thought of her as fragile because of her illness. But in some other situations folks think if you have some kind of disability you're on the road to dementia.
It's interesting, JoanP, that you post about Mary Anne's concerns about the young women of today and tomorrow.
Now her concerns are for the generation that follows. She's concerned about "the special burden" on them (?) She writes of their choices and opportunities. She writes of how exhausted she was as a young woman, trying to be the working mother - trying to do it all. She concludes that today's woman can do it too - but only with help. What of those women who don't have help? Is that what worries Mary Anne?
Just today something came up on Facebook that sent me to Morning Joe on MSNBC -- comments about young women "leaning in" (Sheryl Sandberg) or "leaning out" (Campbell Brown). Even Mary Anne said more than once, "you don't have to do everything."
Lean In / Lean Out (http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/03/21/campbell-brown-breast-milk-flying-everywhere-how-do-you-lean-in/)
I think back to my mother, widowed with an 8 year-old and a 14 year-old. My small family merged with my aunt and uncle who had no children. My mother taught, my aunt ran the house, and everyone around ran me. My mother said more than once, she didn't thing she could have done it by herself.
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But in some other situations folks think if you have some kind of disability you're on the road to dementia.
Too true. JoanK has had to deal with that too. Some people treat her as though she isn't all there. Since she is the most formidable intelligence I've ever known, and is still as good as ever, it's pretty inappropriate. Joan handles it gracefully, but it's irritating.
Thinking of Mary Anne as fragile excuses not touching her, but doesn't excuse not talking to her directly. I think people who aren't used to illness or disability can't figure out how to handle it, and so shy away from it, turn away.
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The last section, where we hold hands with Mary Ann to the end. There are new questions for anyone who wants them.
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'Windup: What will you bring away from this book--'
Many things, but primarily the confirmation that reading books, thinking about them and exchanging thoughts about them with others, will not only add quality to your life, but will also buy you time.
And of course great admiration for Mary Anne who always kept the end in mind, and kept being her noble self until the end.
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There aren't as many books mentioned in this section:
Suite Française--Irène Némirovsky
A long way gone--Ishmael Beah
Lord of the Flies--William Golding
The Elegance of the Hedgehog--Muriel Barbery
Poems of Mary Oliver, Nikki Giovanni, Wallace Stevens
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo--Stig Larsson
Sue Grafton, Val McDermid, Sara Peretsky
Brooklyn--Colm Toíbín
The Master, The Story of Night, The Blackwater Lightship
Christopher and His Kind--Christopher Isherwood
My Father's Tears--John Updike
Big Machine--Victor LaValle
Thomas Pyncheon
Too much Happiness--Alice Munro
The Miracle at Speedy Motors--Alexander McCall Smith
Feasting the Heart--Reynolds Price
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I had been wondering if we would learn how the Schwalbes felt about two of their three children being gay, and in this section we learn more. Mary Ann was upset at first, but quickly adjusted, and after a short period of awkwardness, everything was OK. The fact that they never talked about it in person, only the original exchange of letters, suggests some residual unease, but the Schwalbes gave complete love and support to their children, and welcomed their partners to the family.
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Pat, thank you for listing the books in this section. Now I'll print out all the sections and keep them with the book. So helpful.
Windup: What will you bring away from this book--books to read, things learned, resolutions made, ways of looking at things, etc?
Books to read, certainly. But when I think of Mary Anne, I think of something she has said in more than one place in the book. A place I can locate is where she and Will are talking about People of the Book and Mary Anne does not like Hanna's mother because she was unkind. " Be kind," she says. And when life's little irritations pop up, I try to think to myself, "be kind."
the Schwalbes gave complete love and support to their children, and welcomed their partners to the family.
That's the kind of family they were. So Will and Nina are gay. As long as they are happy, what's to talk about In their circle the Schwalbe's probably did not encounter a lot of narrow mindedness and prejudice, but would have some concern over how their children would be treated by others. Will's coming out first probably made Nina's coming out easier.
I had to laugh about Douglas hoping that Will would not want to talk about his gayness all the time. My youngest daughter likes to joke that when I met her partner Liz I was not concerned about the relationship , but was more concerned that Liz might be a witch. (Liz was driving a borrowed car that had some pamphlets about wiccans in it, and I commented on them to Judy.)
No offense meant.
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Pat says " The fact that they never talked about it in person, only the original exchange of letters, suggests some residual unease"
I'm not so sure about that either. Does not talking about it made it mean it's
normative -" it's perfectly o.k., so it's not something we need to talk about" and would talking about IT make it seem not normative? I don't know. I can compare it to our interracial family, we talk among ourselves when issues arise for family members, generated from external events, but would i write about it in a book about my mother dying? Probably not. That's another whole book. :)
Interracial families seem like a perfectly sane/normal/ordinary situation for us, we don't think much about it and the same is true for the gay couple in our family.
Jean
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"I had been wondering if we would learn how the Schwalbes felt about two of their three children being gay."
Along those same lines, I was wondering if it was unusual that two of the three Schwalbe children were gay. Can anyone comment on this?
I'm not so sure that Will wasn't hoping for a real face to face talk. He writes of an email from Mom - in which she gives him the advice - "'one of the most important things - tell your family you love them, make sure they know how proud you are of them."
But he also writes - he is aware that each book may be the last, each conversation their last one.
He kept waiting for their big talk - he'd tell her how much he loved her, how proud he was of her, how she'd always been there for him, what a great mother she was. Then she'd tell him how proud she was of him...
"There had been many days we'd almost had the big talk, but didn't."
I sense some regret here...and I'll take Mary Ann's advice from this discussion.
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You're probably right, Jean. I was going by the fact that Mary Ann was upset at first, and they had an initial period of awkwardness, but still didn't talk.
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That's true, Pat, i wasn't looking at it from that immediate perspective.
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I sense some regret here...and I'll take Mary Ann's advice from this discussion.
from JoanP
They may not have had the “big talk,” but Will was still able to tell his mother he was proud of her. And yes, Mary Anne’s advice is well worth taking.
4. Christopher Isherwood's Christopher and His Kind helped Will make sense of his life. What books have done that for you?
I don’t know that any specific books have made sense of my life. At least no particular titles come to mind. But I think we frequently glean, without thinking about it, methods and maxims and ways of living from the books we read. How did this person cope with loneliness, how did this one talk with an adult child gone astray, what made their marriage strong or weak, etc. One title does come to mind, not as a way of life, but perhaps as something to take comfort in. In William Maxwell’s So Long, See You Tomorrow the narrator commits an act against another boy that plagues him through adulthood. Maxwell closes this novel with the thought that we are forgiven for the acts we commit when young. I often think of Maxwell’s book, especially when I think of shabby things I did when young.
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Will, making sense of his life. His self-realization is certainly part of his own book. I've found myself wondering if it's more a soul-searching autobiography of himself than an obituary of his remarkable mother. Of course we all look into ourselves when we find ourselves losing someone we love. How much he reveals of himself in a moment of parting from his mother. Page 282.
'Mom looked at the floor. I was due to leave soon, so I hurriedly kissed her on the cheek - gently, for fear of bruising her skin - and before I knew it, I was outside the door of the apartment. For the longest time, I stood there, unwilling or unable to push the elevator button and go home. I stared at the her door and for the first time let myself realize fully that soon would come a day when she wouldn't be behind it, when she'd be gone, when I'd be unable to talk to her about books, about anything. I felt a sharp pain and for a moment thought I was having a heart attack, but it was just panic. And finally, grief. I rang for the elevator and took the subway home.'
In his being gay and feeling a compulsion to talk about it, I sense a whole range of emotions with which I am unfamiliar.
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That's indeed a touching and revealing moment, Jonathan.
I think Will keeps talking about being gay in proportion. I'm not familiar with the emotions personally either, but I can imagine the relief when you finally come out, and can talk about something that's such an important part of what you are, but you have had to keep bottled up for so long.
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Do you get the feeling that Mary Ann knowing that the end is coming -is not concerned so much on how she is going to get through these last days - but how Will is going to cope when she's gone? She seems to know what Will is going through...and is trying help him through...
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his?
I loved The Elegance of the Hedgehog...for different reasons than Will describes. Mary Ann Schwalbe is looking for a change for their bookclub reading - away from death and dying. I think it was she who chose Hedgehog. She likes to read hotel's concierge and the effect that the new Asian tenant and the decor of his apartment had on her. Mary Ann changes the subject of her conversations to the different kind of life the concierge is able to imagine for herself as she experiences the Eastern decor for the first time. Escapism? This seems to me to be an escape from their usual topics of discussion. Didn't Will spend time in Japan - isn't this where he met David? She's changed the subject. She's talking about the future - the concierge's future, Will's future. I'd better not give away the end of Hedghog, but...
I must say I admire this mother's care and concern for her son's future - do you think she's as worried about her other son and daughter as she is about Will?
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do you think she's as worried about her other son and daughter as she is about Will?
Will said early on that he was only telling his own story of the last days--that the others' stories were theirs to tell if they wanted to. So we won't really know unless they do tell.
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"Everyone doesn't have to do everything" Mary Ann says of her lack of creativity. Where do you concentrate your efforts?
I think Mary Anne sets a high bar for the terminally ill. But basically, she appears to be trying to live as she has always lived, doing what she does best – reaching out, supporting those who need help, being kind, and sharing herself with her family and friends, telling them she loves them and is proud of them. She’s not going to take up painting, nor will she become a writer of things other than letters.
I think she has always scheduled herself, even on the bad days, but more on the days when they see the manatees. She knows what she’s capable of, what she’s good at, “everyone doesn’t have to do everything, referring to writing, but she comes close.
Although she is weakened and dying, often in pain, it’s hard to keep in mind that she is someone who is terminally ill. And I think that’s the way she wants it.
Personally, I couldn’t begin to keep up, but will do anything to avoid schedules, although they are often a necessary piece of life.
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quote: - 'do you think she's as worried about her other son and daughter as she is about Will?'
Of course she is. Will is constantly telling the reader how much all the others are constantly on her mind. And Will has brought them all into the story throughout. His book will forever remain a family treasure.
You're right, Pedln. Right to the very end, Mary Anne is determined to stay in control, directing air-traffic, as Will puts it. The irony and humor, of distributing her air miles!!
Does Will have it right about his mother's anger when he flies back from San Fransisco to be by his mother's side. She is gravely ill.
'I saw a look of real anger flash across Mom's face....the anger, I'm convinced, was her anger at death. She wasn't quite ready to go. She still had so many things to do. And my rushing back made it that much harder to believe that there was world enough and time.'
I can hear the family forever wondering about that and exchanging opinions.
Later the same day, we read about her dressed for dinner, not eating, but 'still making plans...looking like herself, just a paler smaller version. Frail but strong.'
What an amazing woman!
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Jean, I just saw this on twitter -- fits right in with your comments on interracial families.
Andrea Mitchell @mitchellreports 4m
Nicolle Wallace: #SCOTUS #Prop8 today "Reminds me of those who had to defend bans in interracial marrage in 1967" #mitchellreports
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I think, whatever the family situation might be, if it's different from the norm, that parents will worry about how their chidlren are perceived and treated.
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That's true. But even if they are both straight, white-anglo-saxon-protestants we parents still worry about something. :)
But the SCOTUS statement is accurate.
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What an amazing secular and religious diversity in Mary Anne's sick chamber. Bible and prayer book, bat mitzvah poem and glowing Buddha. It surely reflects her lifelong, world-wide, humanitarian preoccupations.
And all those books!
'They were Mom's companions and teachers. They had shown her the way. And she was able to look at them as she readied herself for the life everlasting that she knew awaited her.'
Ones sympathy goes out to Will, who abjectedly exclaims:
'What comfort can be gained from staring at my lifeless e-reader?'
Is Mary Anne taking the books with her? That's the way I want to go.
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Mary Ann Schwalbe was able to read - right to the final days of her life. What a blessing, Jonathan. That's the way I want to go too! I was interested in what she was reading at the end. For their book club, she had just completed Alice Munroe's new collection of short stories - Too Much Happiness. A coincidence, but we've been talking about reading some short stories in June - I wonder these short stories were chosen for the bookclub because longer readings might tire Mary Ann at this time? Are you a short story reader?
I was quite moved when Will quoted the Sept.11 passage from Daily Strength for Daily Needs where her bookmark lay when she died on September 14 -
"If you do not wish for his kingdom, don't pray for it, but if you do, you must do more than pray for it; you must work for it."
Will says he believes these were the last words she ever read. I think that's the lesson, the message I will take from reading this account of this amazing woman - who never believed she had worked hard enough. It's not enough to wish - or even to pray - you've got to actively work to accomplish what you hope for.
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A guest on today's Morning Joe brought on thoughts of Mary Anne. Bob Dotson, a name unfamilar to me but apparently known to many, has a book recently published -- American Story: A Lifetime Search for Ordinary People Doing Extraordinary Things -- about the people he met in 40 years of travelling America, searching for those who have changed our lives, made them better. I don't think I would call Mary Anne "ordinary," but she certainly wore many hats -- wife, mother, teacher, friend, volunteer, humanitarian, reader. And she changed many lives, made them better. She would fit well in Dotson's book. She would fit well in Bruce Frankel's book.
One trait that showed throughout the book was that instead of having a round tu-it, she would do-it. Towards the end Will told his mother that he might write something about the books they'd read.
"Oh sweetie, you don't want to spend your life doing that. You have so many other things to do and write" And then the very next day, and in the time she had left, was her list of the books they'd read, along with notes and suggestions for Will's forthcoming book.
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Hasn't this been an unusual book. A great paean to an indomitable human spirit, under huge stress in a body wracked by cancer and the massive invasion of modern medicine. How she must have welcomed that open window for the flight of her noble soul.
May 'flights of angels sing thee to thy rest' Mary Anne.
I took up the book with curiousity. I'm putting it down with melancholy wonder.
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The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.
The End of Your Life Book Club
Will Schwalbe
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/endlifebookclubcover.png) | “That’s one of the things that books do. They help us talk. But they also give us something we all can talk about when we don’t want to talk about ourselves. ”Will Schwalbe
In The End of Your Life Book Club, Will and Mary Anne Schwalbe share their hopes and concerns with each other—and rediscover their lives—through their favorite books.
| (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/afghanlibrary.jpg)
Afghanistan Center at Kabul University (http://www.acku.edu.af/) | (http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/endoflife/maryanneschwalbephoto.jpg)
Mary Anne Schwalbe (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2009/oct/25/mary-anne-schwalbe-obituary) |
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Discussion Schedule:
March 1 - 8 -- to page 83 (end of The Hobbit)
March 9 - 15 -- to page 169 (end of The Painted Veil)
March 16 - 22 -- to page 249 (end of Girls Like Us)
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish)
For Your Consideration
March 23 - 31 -- to page 329 (finish]
To think of throughout: When he describes a book, have you read it? If yes, how does your take on the book compare with his? If no, does this make you want to read it?
1. If Will hadn't known that there was little time left in which his mother could see the results, do you think Will would have quit his job and started his website?
2. When they see an apartment, Will and Mary Anne imagine how they would live in it. Do you do that?
3. Although momentarily dismayed, the Schwalbes accept Will's gayness (and later that of his sister) with love and support. How would you feel in such a situation?
4. Christopher Isherwood's Christopher and His Kind helped Will make sense of his life. What books have done that for you?
5. "Everyone doesn't have to do everything" Mary Ann says of her lack of creativity. Where do you concentrate your efforts?
Windup: What will you bring away from this book--books to read, things learned, resolutions made, ways of looking at things, etc?
Related Links::Pre-Discussion Comments (http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3730.0); Will Schwalbe Interview (http://www.curiousbookfans.co.uk/2012/creative/10524/qa-with-will-schwalbe); Women's Refugee Commission (http://womensrefugeecommission.org/)
DISCUSSION LEADERS: Pedln (ann.bartlett@att.net) & PatH (rjhighet@earthlink.net)
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One thing I will take away from the book: In The Price of Salt, a saleswoman's life is changed because one customer gives her a kindly, friendly greeting. Olive Kitteridge thinks in terms of "big bursts" and "little bursts". Big bursts, marriage, children, etc are the important things that keep you going, but they are also scary and fraught with danger. Little bursts, things like a casual nice gesture from someone, keep you going in between. You need both.
This reminds me to keep up a campaign I have of trying to make this town (DC) less grumpy, one smile at a time. In casual exchanges, I try to be pleasant, smile, phrase the conversation in a way that's positively reinforcing to the other person (for example "you're right" instead of "yes"). I let people in in traffic (DC traffic is particularly grumpy) and so on. I figure the slight bit of pleasantness might travel on to the next exchange or so before it dies out. It's a drop in the bucket, but the bucket is filled by drops.
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Those are good things to take away from this reading and discussion, Pat. I like the idea of "big bursts" and "little bursts." As you say, those little bursts are what keep you going. Be kind, and if something needs to be done, do it. Don't just think about it. Reach out. There are so many things to take away.
Thank you notes. Write them, the sooner the better. And we do remember, don't we. I'm thinking right now of a note from Libby, a church leader, who wrote me because my high school son (now 51 years old) pitched in and helped wash dishes after a church dinner. If it hadn't been for the note I would never have known.
I want to take away/remember so many books. And Will gets the credit for that -- his words, making them come alive. I want to know what happens to Teza in The Lizard Cage, and Nita in the Alice Munro short story. And even if it will be hard and unsettling, I want to know Mariatu Kamara and Ishmael Beah through their own words.
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Back to The Lizard Cage:
MA: I particularly like that last phrase, about protecting your own happiness.
Will: But how can you protect your own happiness when you can't control the beatings?
MA: That's the point, Will. You can't control the beatings. But maybe you can have some control over your happiness. As long as he can, well, then, he still has something worth living for. And when he's no longer able, he knows he's done all he can.
In his mind Will replaces "beatings" with "cancer". Mary Ann kept control of her happiness to the end. You could say that when she went into hospice she felt she had done all she could, but that's not altogether true. She couldn't control the weakness, the pain, etc, but right up to the end she was still setting her own parameters. She died on her terms, all honor to her.
What all of us are going to carry away from this book is the indelible memory of an amazing woman and her remarkable family. I don't think any of us will forget her.
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You're right Pat, i won't forget her or Will, what a wonderful son and how nice to read of a lovely mother/son relationship, even with some bumps along the way.
I also like your campaign, can you go down to the capitol and spread a few little bursts? Maybe they'll take the hint. :)
Thanks for pointing me toward this book, i will go back and reread some passages. Thanks for leading the discussion and to all of you who commented, i enjoyed your persectives.
Jean
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I'm surprised to hear about grumpy Washington. I'll have to accept that coming from a native. Good luck, Pat, with your efforts to do something about it. Setting a good example is surely the best way.
How about Will's feelings about the hypocrisy he encounters on New York City streets the rudeness of pedestrians in a hurry and being held up by a frail senior? And Mary Anne was having a lot of difficulty the last while, but determined that her own feet would take her across the busy streets.
That reminds me of a chance encounter many, many years ago in a wilderness camp in the Adirondacks, with a couple of guys from NYC. I was envious. I asked about life in the big city. They were unenthusiastic. As for life on the street, I was told there were only a few basic rules to survive. Primarily, never make eye contact with anybody, and apologize profusely if you accidently make physical contact.
There is so much one can take away from this book. Naturally, many of the books sound interesting. I've already got several. And I must get around to reading some of Thomas Mann. But in the end, I find the books providing only a gilded frame for a sorrowful picture.
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Washington isn't as grumpy as New York, it's about average. But the traffic is VERY grumpy.
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But in the end, I find the books providing only a gilded frame for a sorrowful picture.
But oh my, what if there had been no books, no book club. Mary Anne would not have slouched around under any circumstances, but the books made everything so much better, and gave her another chance to reach out
"Mom showed me that books can be how we get closer to each other, and stay close, . . . . even after one of them has died."
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All of us have probably said at least once, "That's the way I'd like to go," Usually after hearing about the sudden death of someone we knew. Like the friend who went to visit a niece in Prague with her daughter and SIL and died of a heart attack right after saying how wonderful she felt. Or like my 80-something aunt who woke up on a Sunday, went out for dinner with her sisters after church, then attended a play in the afternoon, went to bed and didn’t wake up on Monday. Unexpected, hard on the family, no suffering, but a life cut short.
Then there are deaths like Mary Anne’s and others who have terminal illnesses. The benefits of time battle with the illness itself, the side effects of medication, the changes in the body. Will shared some of that with us, but overall his tone was more positive, albeit realistic. I think Mary Anne was fortunate in many ways. She had a loving family that was free to be with her when needed. She had a doctor who treated her kindly. She was able to travel, she could make realistic plans and carry them out, and she had the joy of knowing that her efforts for others were bearing fruit, and that a project most near and dear to her would be completed. She could read almost until the end, and was able to die in her own home.
Tough choices here for sad endings.
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Grumpy? That's not the way I remember Washington. I sensed the power and the beauty. The architecture supplied the power and the cherry blossoms the beauty. Just the other day I took a book of the shelf I hadn't looked into in twenty-five years and there they were, beautiful pink blossoms. The dropped onto the page that long ago while I sat under one of the famous cherry trees reading the book. Let me see. I think that was the year President Reagan was in Moscow and it was announced that he had signed a nuclear weapons accord. I remember the senators coming out to meet the media with their congratulatory statements. Ted Kennedy, Carl Levin, and others. I remember the young man who wanted his book autographed by a senator. Naturally the senator wanted to know what he was signing. It was Plato's Republic. Wasn't that neat.
I have my own opinion of New York traffic. Snarly. The citizens alway seemed friendly after the New York fahion.
Quote: 'but the books made everything so much better, and gave her another chance to reach out.'
Just so, Pedln. I've felt all along that it was the books that gave her life meaning and purpose, and the will to live, and did her more good than the medication. And the books do something wonderful for Will's book. It's certainly a novel way of handling grief. Just as long as one doesn't lose sight of Mom. Her life deserves another book. With photos. Can you imagine an illustrated edition of this book? Not the treatments. The diversions.
'Thy Kingdom Come.' The last words she may have read. Her own hard work made it seem possible for so many refugees and unfortunates.
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Jonathan, the power and the beauty don't ever get old. I still get a lump in my throat when I see some parts of my fair city.
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It's hard to believe this is the end of the month. Probably because it is also Easter, which makes me think of new life, new beginnings. But, nevertheless, it is time to end what has been a very positvie discussion, providing much for all of us to think about. Thanks to everyone who posted and helped make it so.
We'll keep the site open for another day or so, so please feel free to make any additional comments.
Both the discussion and the book have given us lots of recommendations for future reading AND re-reading. Not just us, but people from all over, as can be seen in these Tweets sent to Will Schwalbe. His words have brought a certain excitement to books and reading.
I cannot tell you how much your book moved me. It inspired me to read/re-read some classics - and exposed me to some I'd not known
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Just read ur End of Life Book Club.fell in love with ur mom. Sobbed w/ u at the elevator.Now will read so many books u mentioned.
We loved End of YOur LIfe Book Club so much that we started a group challenge to read books that you read w/your mom! KUYH book club
Today's Review from Bahrain (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=350471&utm)
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Oh good! The lights are still on and you are still here! The last few days have been hectic around here and I really wanted to thank Pedln and PatH for their splendid job leading what has to have been a difficult discussion to lead at times. You managed to keep our focus on the books, while acknowledging what the remarkable son and his amazing mother were feeling as her life came to an end.
I feel such an awareness of the need to make each day count after reading of Mary Ann 's approach to life and can think of no greater gift from Will.
Thank you both, and thank you, Will Schwalbe for sharing your story with us.
ps Off to the library to pick up Alice Munro's short stories - Too Much Happiness
pps How fitting to learn before we close, that the Library in Kabul (http://www.wcax.com/story/21843196/afghanistan-centre-at-kabul-university-acku-officially-opens-doors-of-cutting-edge-library-and-research-center-in-kabul) officially opened a few hours ago today!
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The lights are still on. Oh good! I can't help feeling that Mary Anne Schwalbe would want them left on so that we could finish the book we're reading. And she certainly left us with a pile of them.
I've just picked up the Munro stories. What do you make of them, JoanP? Are you finding the happiness suggested by the title? Too Much Happiness. After reading the first story I find the title ironic. A most unusual story.
Will writes: 'We then talked about the books. She'd finished the Alice Munro stories and loved them. "They kept me happy all weekend," she said
That's a mystery that baffles me. How did she read the stories? She has left me feeling guilty about my life. I've done so little with it. Took early retirement in fact, twenty-five years ago, thinking my work on earth was finished. At that age she set out with her new mission, to make the world a better place. Oh, well. Perhaps I'll be given a second chance. She felt everyone deserved that.
A profound discussion. Thanks to everyone.
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Can it possibly be that her happiness is an example of the old adage that misery likes company? No. She never had time to feel that way. Better to feel that it showed her compassionate nature.
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Jonathan, I puzzle too over the fact that Alice Munro's stories made Mary Ann Schwalbe "happy all weekend." I have to admit I'm not finding the happiness suggested by the title. I find them fascinating though. Mary Ann wants Will to read the story, "Free Radicals"...I plan to read that now. It's about Nita, a woman who is a big reader, dying of cancer. "Books save "Nita's soul, and a story saves her life, or at least it does so temporarily."
I read the last story in the book - the "Too Much Happiness" story after which the collection is named. As she loses conscientousness, Sophia says the words - "too much happiness." I found I had to go back and reread the whole story - and still don't see the happiness. Either it's meant to be ironic, as you suggest - OR she truely believes she has something to be happy about - although it doesn't appear to be so to us. Will stayed up the night finishing the book and says "I could see why Mom liked that story the most. All readers have reading in common."
That leaves me with a consoling thought - and hope for such a happy ending with a good book that makes me happy at my side.
I agree - a profound discussion. Thanks for coming back in and sharing with us, Jonathan.
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Thank you Jonathan and JoanP for your comments about "Too Much Happiness." That's another title that is joining so many others from this book on my TBR list. There is something special about reading about readers, and their books.
Thanks again to everyone who posted here and made this such a worth while discussion. This is the final post, but the entire discussion can be found in Archives after today.