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Title: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: BooksAdmin on March 25, 2017, 01:16:18 PM: The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

April Book Club Online

Hidden Figures

by Margot Lee Shetterly

(http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hiddenfigures/hiddenfigurescvr.jpg)

Their work was crucial to the Space Program, but nobody knew their names. Join us as we learn the true story of these Black women mathematicians.

Schedule:

Apr. 1-7 Prologue, Chapters 1-6
Apr. 8-14 Chapters 7-12
Apr. 15-21 Chapters 13-18
Apr. 22-28 Chapters 19-23, epilogue

Discussion Leaders: PatH and Annie
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 25, 2017, 01:34:50 PM: Welcome, everyone. This is an amazing story, and I'm really looking forward to sharing it with you. How little I knew at the time what was going on behind the scenes! What about you? What do you remember?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on March 25, 2017, 07:14:29 PM: The story is, previously, unknown history! And quite a surprise. How could these "computers" (women, black and white) have accomplished so many important tasks for NASA and no one told the world? I hope "Hidden Figures" piques your interest and you will join us on April 1st.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on March 26, 2017, 02:03:27 PM: It doesn't look like I will have a copy of Hidden Figures for the discussion - but - I am about a chapter into Rocket Girls... which encompasses all the women going all the way back to JPL's predecessor at Cal Tech. JPL was under the US Army's wing until it was transferred to the newly created NASA in 1958. I expect to see some of the same people that you will run across in Hidden Figures.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 26, 2017, 03:59:28 PM: Welcome, Frybabe, I hope you will come in even without the book. There will be plenty of issues to talk about.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on March 26, 2017, 04:27:56 PM: And maybe some of the gals who worked on the A-Bomb at Oak Ridge, TN! Remember that story about The Women Who Won The War? Didn't Ella lead that discussion?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 26, 2017, 05:20:45 PM: I have my book and am anxious to begin. The movie is out in our theaters right now and I am so tempted to go see it. I don't think I have ever seen a movie and then read the book, but because we will be discussing it I may actually enjoy having seen the movie first.

Annie I was thinking of the Girls of Atomic City, and then here you go and mention it. I think many would question whether those women won the war. I know from the sounds of things they ended up not feeling so proud of being used and kept in the dark on what they were actually doing. But knowing women played a huge part in creating the atomic bomb was very interesting to read about. This also brings to mind Henrietta Lacks and how she was not given her rightful due in the living cells that are still being used today to cure diseases. It is sad to learn how the male/government took advantage of women and never gave them their rightful recognition. Not so sure that is happening today with women standing up for their equal rights and all.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 28, 2017, 10:51:16 AM: I think most American women helped win WWII--some of them directly, like Oak Ridge or in military service, but the greatly increased need for productivity and manpower, while manpower was being drawn off to fight, meant that if you did anything to keep the needs of ordinary life going you were helping. Not just in a factory, but even managing a checkout counter or driving a truck.

And it was a wonderful opportunity for women to break the mold of limited work choices and the expectation that they would stick to housework.

Bellamarie, if you see the movie, let us know what it's like.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on March 28, 2017, 01:20:18 PM: Have the book and can't wait for the discussion. I was a (woman, needless to say) computer programmer in the 50s and 60s, so I'm eager to compare these women's experiences to mine.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 28, 2017, 02:29:50 PM: JoanK, I too ushered in technology into our school, a first, and know how exciting it was to be on the ground level of something so new. Can't wait to read all about these women.

PatH., Well, said, women got an opportunity of a lifetime to break through many different job positions during the war that may never have came to them for many years had it not been for men going off to war.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 29, 2017, 04:47:06 PM: Saw the movie today and can't wait to see how the book reads now. All I can say is I thought the movie was amazing! I cried, laughed and cheered them on. A man told me after the movie was over it was his 19th time seeing it and will see it again if it's still on next week. I love that I will have some faces to put to the names of the characters.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Jonathan on March 29, 2017, 10:33:19 PM: Bellamarie, your post brought it all back for me. It's a thrilling movie. I believe everyone in the theater was strangely moved. It had me wishing for the continuous showings of long ago, when we used to sit through a movie twice if we really liked it. I'll be going again. And again. So much science. So much human interest. Such good photography. And all those clever people.

Just to see that segregation sign outside the 'Colored Ladies' coming down was worth the price of admission. And it brought it all back, that amazing race to the moon. Weren't we all glued to our TV's.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on March 30, 2017, 10:51:38 AM: I am just starting Chap 3. But I wanted to tell all that my granddaughter and her husband are reading HF out loud, to each other!! They are on Chap 4. With 3 kids around, I wonder where they find the time?😄😄
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 30, 2017, 11:13:57 AM: Nineteen times is a real labor of love, as well as a considerable financial expense. I'm glad the movie is so good.

Part of the fun of this story will be remembering--the excitement of those advances, and what we knew and didn't know at the time. Let's start with the prologue and the first 6 chapters. Shetterly has a lot of set-up to do, background to fill in, and issues to address, but by the end we will see Dorothy settling into her first job as a computer.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 30, 2017, 01:41:27 PM: Jonathan, You are so right, when Kevin Costner yanked that sign down off above the bathroom entry I wanted to cry and cheer at the same time.

I have to admit I was born in 1952, I told my hubby that I really did not realize how bad the blacks had been treated even in the 60's. I grew up in a small rural town in Michigan and our family had no prejudice. The first time I was even aware of the way blacks were hated was when my step father's brother from Tenn. came to live with us and he rolled the car window down and called a group of black people the n word. My mother was horrified and told him he better never let her hear him talk like that again. My grade school had no black students, my high school did and I became friends with them. One day I joined them in a "black sit out." Not sure if I was just wanting to get out of class, or wanted to show them support. They looked at me, the only white student sitting on the grass and asked what was I doing here. I said, "It's a sit out and I'm joining in." They laughed at me, afterwards we all got up and went to our next class. The principal called me into his office and questioned why I was not in class and I told him I was part of the sit out. He shook his head and told me to go on to my next class.

I live in Ohio and Senator John Glenn was from Ohio, so his part in this story really brought much pride to me and my hubby.

PatH., For me this is going to be a bit of a history lesson, since I was too young, and uninterested when it was actually happening. I read the prologue before going to see the movie and thought, oh dear what have I gotten myself into, it all seemed over my head. Now, after seeing the movie I think it will not seem as intimidating to me.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on March 30, 2017, 05:49:57 PM: y daughter has been saying and saying she wants to go to the movie with me, but it hasn't happened. I guess i'll miss the experience of sharing it with an audience.

I came out of college in 1954 with my shiny new math degree and was hired as a "computer" by a small research firm. When they got their first real computer later that year, they trained me on it.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 30, 2017, 08:30:50 PM: JoanK., You truly were on the groundbreaking of computers. Did you have an IBM? I know Apple did not come on the scene until 1976. The first computer I learned on was a Radio Shack TRS80 Tandy Coco Model which came out in 1980. I purchased the Coco computer and taught myself, then in 1984 I was offered the pilot program at my kid's Catholic grade school to begin a computer lab. The principal was a friend of mine, Sr. Myra and she knew less than me. We called it "our baby" project.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on March 31, 2017, 06:44:58 AM: My first computer, back in the mid-70s, was a little Timex-Sinclair with an extra 64k, yes 64k, module. Though I don't recall ever winning one, I used to like to play chess on it because I could make a move, go off and do some housework, and then come back for my next move. I forget whether I made my first pantry inventory on it or the next computer.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 31, 2017, 10:23:21 AM: Here is a little info on the very first computers invented.

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000984.htm

JoanK., Where were you working when you used your first computer in 1954?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on March 31, 2017, 02:05:50 PM: My husband and our two sons built our first computer in 1978 and I was their go-get person. I learned a lot of what I knew from reading their magazines. I would go to the nearest computer store and order what they wanted and bring it back, only hoping I had the right thing. We used that computer for a couple of years (my 15 yr old son even brought it with him when we moved to Atlanta on loan to Lockheed for 6 months in 1980.)It was a home made desktop! Just HUUUUUUGE! Well all the talk was whether to buy TRS-80 or Hewlitt-Packard or several other brands. We finally bought the Mac Plus! We fell in love with Apple then, have owned 10 different models over the years. My husband was an aeronautical engineer, oldest son, an IT man, and youngest son has his degree in Computer Technology.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Mkaren557 on March 31, 2017, 04:45:27 PM: At the time this was all taking place, I was a self-absorbed adolescent. I, of course, knew nothing of these women, a little about the space program and the astronauts, and a passing interest in the Civil Rights Movement. I did watch the news once in a while and I knew some names of people and events. I also lived in the state of Maine, minority population in the capital area, one family. I know there were more minorities in Maine, but I thought that minority meant black. I, for some reason, whatched the March on Washington in August of 1963, and two days later I left for college at Catholic University in Washington, D.C. I learned very quickly about racial inequality, violence, hatred, and soon could talk about the Civil Rights Movement. Everytime my family gets together and we begin talking about a book or movie about the late 50s and the 60's we look at each other and ask, "Where was I when all this was going on?" The movie Hidden Figures opened my eyes even wider and I have taught history for many years. I am sure the book will tell me even more.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on March 31, 2017, 07:05:36 PM: Annie, how exciting it must have been being a part of building your very own desktop computer, and look how it helped your sons to succeed in their future. When I was teaching Apple computers to my sons class I told them computers would be the way of the world so they need to take the opportunity to learn all they can about them. Today my youngest son works for UPS Logistics creating programs to route Ford Motor Company's vehicles through the railways, saving them millions of dollars. He has about thirty employees under him and prides himself on hiring young energetic millennials to teach them the knowledge and skills to move up in the company. I attended an award dinner in his honor this past summer and was talking to his supervisor and men above him and they asked where my son got his knowledge of computers. I humbly mentioned how I began the computer lab at his grade/jr high school and encouraged him to be very serious about learning technology. They said, "Well then, we have you to thank for his exceptional work." When our computer lab got our first Macs we thought it was Christmas day. I love Apple products and continue to purchase them, only I must admit I finally caved in and bought a Dell computer this past November.

MKaren, I like you was so unaware of what was happening during this time as well. I think there is so much we have to learn where history is concerned. Hopefully this book will have even more than the movie for us.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 31, 2017, 07:22:33 PM: Bellamarie, you should feel very good about your computer mentoring. You've changed lives, more than you'll know.

That was a really interesting link to early computers. It's been eons since I thought about the computers that took whole rooms. And they didn't use transistors, they used vaccuum tubes, which give off a lot of heat, so cooling the rooms was a problem. Plus tubes burn out and need replacing, so you have to keep checking them.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 31, 2017, 07:49:27 PM: Annie, that was exciting building computers. The closest I ever came was building hi-fi equipment 20 years earlier (anyone remember Heathkits?).

I wasn't any sort of pioneer in computers, like some of you, just used them in minor ways in work. When I switched labs in 1985, my new lab used Apple computers exclusively (unlike most of NIH) because their molecular modeling (which I didn't use) was superior. So I cut my teeth on the classic Apple II, with a breathtaking 1 MB of memory, and haven't looked back. I almost haven't ever used a PC.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on March 31, 2017, 08:07:18 PM: Karen, so you went to college in my home town. We're almost rivals, since I started at George Washington 13 years earlier. It changed a lot in those 13 years, and has changed dramatically since.

No one knew about the women in our book then, but as a lifelong science fiction fan, I eagerly followed every bit of the space program. When the first moon landing occurred, I was out of the country and had no access to TV, so had to console myself with radio broadcasts, but it was still pretty exciting.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on March 31, 2017, 08:25:35 PM: didn't realize how early I was in the field. This is a computer I used (from BELLAMARIE's article:

"First delivered to the United States government in 1950, the UNIVAC 1101 or ERA 1101 is considered to be the first computer that was capable of storing and running a program from memory."

{we then upgraded to a larger 1103, but basically the same computer).

The first program I wrote was written in computer language -- a series of long numbers in octal (numbers to the base eight, rather than base 10. I got so used to operating n octal that I bounced a check: working in my checkbook, I added 1 and 7 and got 10, amd thought I had more in my account than I did.

This program produced a table of 100 numbers. It took hours to run, and the output was a mess. IBM cards didn't exit: input and output was on punched paper tape: it took two lines of tape to contain one octal number. The 100 number output from my program produced tape yards long. It fell into a big bin. You tore off the end, rolled it up, and took it to another machine that translated it to paper (another hour's work).

If tou dropped the end of the tape, you were doomed! t would fall in the bin and create a terrible tape snarl, It was usual to go into the computer room and see people untangling yards of paper tape stretching from one end of the room to the other.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on April 01, 2017, 05:42:38 AM: Oh, Heathkit. Yes! I built a world radio kit. I was also taking, at the time, a basic electronics correspondence course.

JoanK, I used to know someone who worked with Grace Hopper. Unfortunately, I never pursued my curiosity nor do I remember anything else about her role in early computing. Molly and her husband, Herb, were both quite active and wonderfully curious about many things. I felt blessed to be able to spend time with them and was terribly sad when they passed away.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 01, 2017, 11:52:17 AM: I remember that paper tape. It was maddening; it would curl up around itself in horrible interlocked loops. Ugh.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 01, 2017, 12:06:32 PM: Today's the first, so we're officially discussing. I put up a schedule, but we can move it around depending on how we feel.

The first section has a lot of bits and pieces, background and orientation. To start, let's concentrate on a couple of things.

Things were very different then. How does what we read fit with your memories (if you were alive then) or with what you know from reading? How have things changed?

We see Dorothy making a number of important life decisions. How were her options different from those of a white woman? From a man? From someone living now? Would you have made the same decisions?

As usual, we're probably not going to stick to anything formal, but go all over the place. Questions just serve to get us started.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 01, 2017, 12:07:52 PM: Would you believe I still have a Heathkit radio and record player in Ralph's workshop? Don't know if he was going to fix it or he just stored it there. He built it in the 1960's. The cabinet is dark brown oak. Was a lovely piece of furniture. We certainly got lots of pleasure from it. I believe he also built a radio receiver that was another Heathkit product.

Do you remember firing up the Macs using floppy disks? I had Word on mine (yes mine) so was able to write our annual Christmas letter with it. My husband was designing a new air refueling system for his company and he would bring the paper work home and read it out loud to me as I typed it all up. They were getting ready to apply for a patent. Exciting stuff! When he was in the USAF, he was an air refueling specialist. So designing a new system was right down his alley!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 01, 2017, 12:30:39 PM: Hmmm. Wonder if I still have any Heathkits tucked in a corner behind stuff. Probably not, though I made a number of them, including some for work.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 01, 2017, 02:39:46 PM: I just sent a link for watching how we got to Mars! And all I could think while watching was how far we have have come since the HF girls and "computers" like JoanK and PatH and Frybabe wee doing their jobs! Proud of you all!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 01, 2017, 07:49:52 PM: Annie, I sure do remember those floppy disks, and now look at us using usb flash drives to store thousands and thousands of pictures and information on them no bigger than a matchbox in size.

Beginning today's discussion the first thing that jumped out at me in the first chapter was how they were in dire need for positions:

pg. 5 (In 1943) With even a modicum of analytical or mechanical skill, hoping for matriculating college students to fill the hundreds o f open positions for computers, scientific aides, model makers, laboratory assistants, and yes, even mathematicians."

Pg. 5 - 6 A. Phillip Randolph, the head of the largest black labor union in the country, demanded that Roosevelt open lucrative war jobs to Negro applicants, threatening in the summer of 1941 to bring on hundred thousand Negros to the nation's capital in protest if the president rebuffed his demand.

With two strokes of a pen__ Executive Order 8802, ordering the desegregation of the defense industry, and Executive Order 9346, creating the Fair Employment Practices Committee to monitor the national project of economic inclusion__Roosevelt primed the pump for a new source of labor to come to tight production process. Nearly two years after Randolph's 1941 showdown, as the laboratory's personnel requests reached the civil service, applications of qualified Negro female candidates began filtering in to the Langley Service building presenting themselves for consideration by the laboratory's personnel staff.

pg. 8 So, too, was A. Phillip Randolph, The leader's indefatigable activism, unrelenting pressure, and superior organizing skills laid the foundation for what, in the 1960s, would come to be known as the civil rights movement.

Had it not been for A. Phillip Randolph there is the possibility Dorothy, Katherine or Mary would never had the opportunity to apply for theses positions.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 02, 2017, 10:16:18 AM: Here's that link to incredible How we got to Mars. Its long but watch it to the end!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/XRCIzZHpFtY?rel=0
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on April 02, 2017, 12:08:21 PM: When the project that became JPL first started out, all of its "computers" were women. When they expanded their operation, again before they became known as JPL, the supervisor and all except for one were women. The man, as I recall, didn't stay around very long.

What time period does Hidden Figures cover?

I watched the video on my computer monitor. I will have to find it on YouTube to watch it on the big screen in HD.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 02, 2017, 01:05:18 PM: I think it started in 1935 with the hiring of "five white women by Langey's first computing pool and by 1946 400 'girls' had already been trained as aeronautical foot soldiers. Quoting the prologue: "Historian Beverly Golemba, in a 1994 study, estimated that Langley had employed 'serveral hundred' women as human computers. On the tailend of the research for Hidden Figures, I can now see how that number might tip one thousand."
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 02, 2017, 01:10:33 PM: And it ends with the moon landing in 1969, except for some of the epilogue.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 02, 2017, 02:09:30 PM: Did you watch the MARS video? My cousin in LA sent it to me and doesn't know anything about our discussion on SL! Must be de ja vous? Sp?🤓🤓
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on April 02, 2017, 04:17:19 PM: So this book focuses on the East Coast gang, and my book focuses on the West Coast gang.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 02, 2017, 07:42:17 PM: FRY: that's interesting. There were probably other "gangs" throughout the country that we'll never hear about.

I once did some research on "occupations that change sex", and computer programming is an example. I should have added "and race". I knew that the early programmers were women, but had no idea there were Black women,

Were the "west Coast gang black?

Of course, when programming became a prestigious high paying job, the women were replaced by men.

the Degree in Math, which was the entry card for the NAS "computers" became a means of keeping (now white, of course} women out of the field., since few white women hold such a degree. It was always stated as a requirement for the, always waived for men, and never for women. At one point, I was kept at a sub-professional grade, earning half of what the men doing the same work earned. when I complained, I was told it was because I didn't have a degree in math. I told the supervisor that not only DID I have a degree in math, I was the only one who did. None of the "professional" men I worked with had such a degree. It made no difference, of course, and I left that job.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 02, 2017, 09:48:02 PM: The Book Club Online is the oldest book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone. We offer cordial discussions of one book a month, 24/7 and enjoy the company of readers from all over the world. Everyone is welcome.

April Book Club Online

Hidden Figures

by Margot Lee Shetterly

(http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/hiddenfigures/hiddenfigurescvr.jpg)

Their work was crucial to the Space Program, but nobody knew their names. Join us as we learn the true story of these Black women mathematicians.

Schedule:

Apr. 1-7 Prologue, Chapters 1-6
Apr. 8-14 Chapters 7-12
Apr. 15-21 Chapters 13-18
Apr. 22-28 Chapters 19-23, epilogue

Discussion Leaders: PatH and Annie

JoanK., Good for you for not only speaking up and pointing out you were the only one with the Math degree, but good for you for leaving that job.

Frybabe, What book are you reading that is is happening on the West Coast gang?

I have to tell you the movie started out nothing at all like this book.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Frybabe on April 03, 2017, 05:43:05 AM: I am reading The Rise of the Rocket Girls: The Women Who Propelled Us, from Missiles to the Moon to Mars. I expect that at some point my book will converge with yours since JPL became part of NASA in1958. Rocket Girls begins, not at Langley, but at CalTech as a research project that eventually became JPL. Here is a review in Smithsonian: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/nasas-rocket-girls-are-no-longer-forgotten-history-180958791/

Both books were published in 2016, Rocket Girls in April of that year and Hidden Figures in September. Funny how books with similar or the same subject matter get published about the same time but through different publishing houses. Rocket Girls focuses on all the women, not just the black women.

Johnathan, is the book you read Rocket Men: The Epic Story of the First Men on the Moon by Craig Nelson? I am putting it on my library wish list.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 03, 2017, 09:33:08 AM: At the moment, where we are in the book, we haven't even touched rockets. The Black women are still making our WWII fighting planes the best in the world by refining their shapes with calculations and eliminating drag.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 03, 2017, 12:05:25 PM: Path.,
Quote
We see Dorothy making a number of important life decisions. How were her options different from those of a white woman? From a man? From someone living now? Would you have made the same decisions?

The first chapters of our book is introducing Dorothy, and Katherine and their entry into NASA. I am shocked that Dorothy took a position that would take her away from her home and children for such a long length of time, but back then I understand how if you were going to have any type of job making double your income and getting to use your talents for such an esteem project you couldn't refuse. Dorothy knew this was a chance of a lifetime and would give her the opportunity to make money for her children's future.

A quote from this article: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2734898/meet-the-black-women-behind-oscar-nominated-hidden-figures-who-put-white-men-on-the-moon-but-couldnt-eat-in-the-same-canteen/
Quote
Ann said: “The salary was double what she earned as a teacher but the hours were long — she often worked 24-hour shifts.

“So us six kids stayed with our grandmother for the next nine months while she worked 130 miles away and lived in a boarding house. When the job became permanent she moved us.”
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: mabel1015j on April 03, 2017, 01:11:36 PM: To keep adding to the list of women computers, the Army was spending way too much time during WWII trying to figure out the trajectory of the many new weapons they were developing. Women mathematicians had been hired to do the job manually as men were serving in the military. So a group of those women were asked to configure and program the ENIAC, a room-sized computer at the U of Pa. they had some diagrams, but little else to show them how to do those jobs.

I remember reading of one women's account of their crawling around the floor (in dresses and hose) to try to figure out how to put it together and then trying to figure out which vacuum tube had blown when it stopped working. (Like trying to figure out which bulb had blown in the old string if Christmas tree lights.)

I talk about them in my presentation on women scientists.

http://www.witi.com/center/witimuseum/halloffame/298369/ENIAC-Programmers-Kathleen-McNulty,-Mauchly-Antonelli,-Jean-Jennings-Bartik,-Frances-Synder-Holber-Marlyn-Wescoff-Meltzer,-Frances-Bilas-Spence-and-Ruth-Lichterman-Teitelbaum/

Jean
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 03, 2017, 02:48:46 PM: Jean, as we learn Dorothy was concerned about her job and the the thirty other black women that were computers manually losing their jobs once she heard the huge IBM was coming in. She was smart enough to know to go to the library and teach herself, and the women, so they would be ready to transition into the positions that would be needed once the IBM was up and running.

Can you imagine how many pairs of nylons those women went through?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 03, 2017, 03:05:45 PM: Nylons were almost impossible to get; all the nylon went for parachutes. there were some rayon stockings, and women resorted to such devices as putting tan makeup on their legs and drawing the stocking seam down the back with eyebrow pencil. It was a real tragedy to get a run.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 03, 2017, 03:48:03 PM: Later, I escaped SOME of that. The fifties was a time of conformity, when men were expected to wear dress shirts and ties, women dresses and stockings. But a free-wheeling culture developed among the programmers, probably similar to that in Silicon Valley later: we were free spirits and above such things. For men, that meant no ties, for me, no stockings
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 03, 2017, 03:50:29 PM: Women who took their careers seriously all at some time had to face choices like Dorothy between career and family. my daughter is still facing those choices today.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: Jonathan on April 03, 2017, 06:31:51 PM: '"Where was I when all this was going on?" The movie Hidden Figures opened my eyes even wider and I have taught history for many years. I am sure the book will tell me even more.'

Quoting Mkaren, and I do believe she has seen the vast scope of the social and scientific changes and developments dealt with in the book. Wasn't a lot of history made in those years! The posts following hers bear that out. Computing technology, space adventures, civil rights, desegregation, equal rights for everyone. There certainly were many tough choices for women of course. And I'm very proud of my wife, my daughter and two grandaughters, all of whom did or are pursuing professional careers. I'm mired in my tax return and am blessed to have a corporate accountant in the family.

I suppose as a Canadian I see some of the history from a different angle. aware that for some, many years ago, Canada was seen as the Glory Land. Our sympathies were certainly with those seeking equal rights and equal opportunities, but feeling denied.

With that in mind, I would like to share a story. It was in the sixties. As a family we were driving south to Cape Hatteras, our favorite ocean beach. It was hot. Time for an ice cream the kids suggested. The large black community was so evident. So it was not surprising that the roadside stand was run by blacks. Let's have a double-decker...chocolate and vanilla. We got them with a wink...with the chocolate on top. We wished him a good day and left with a chuckle.

Yes, Frybabe, Rocket Men is by Craig Nelson.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 03, 2017, 08:15:57 PM: Quote from: JoanK on April 03, 2017, 03:50:29 PM
Women who took their careers seriously all at some time had to face choices like Dorothy between career and family. my daughter is still facing those choices today.
This choice was made easier for Dorothy by the fact that her children were already being cared for by their grandparents while she worked as a schoolteacher. They were in a close-knit community, with loving aunts and uncles, and caring neighbors who formed a safe and comfortable environment. So although it must have really hurt to be separated from her children, she knew they were safe, loved and taken care of.

Earlier, she had been faced with the decision not to get a math degree at Howard, but instead got a teaching degree. It was the Depression, nobody was sure of having a job, and teaching was the best way to have an income to help out.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 03, 2017, 08:33:45 PM: Johnathan That is such a cute story! ;) ;)

PatH., Yes, Dorothy was blessed to have the grandparents to be there for the grandchildren. When my first grandchild was born my son was eighteen just graduated high school. He and my daughter in law the mother was not even dating anymore, and she was only seventeen still in high school. I decided to leave my computer teaching job at the school and begin my in home day care so I could care for my grand daughter for free. I knew if these two had a chance at being successful they would need a stable loving place for the baby. I did all six of my grandchildren over sixteen years so my daughter in laws could pursue their careers.

Would Dorothy have been able to make that choice without those grandparents?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: mabel1015j on April 04, 2017, 11:33:07 AM: I have said on more than one ocassion that the toughest thing about having young children and having a job was finding child care. In the late 70s there was not yet a day care center in every town and we were not living near family. Women in the neighborhood, wanting to earn some money were the first option, butour first sitter, who was very good and responsible, decided after the first year that she was going to work outside her home, and so on, and so on. We did find a very good program for our son when he was three, and his nephew, our first grandson went to the same daycare 25 yrs later. I didn't have to make a choice between working outside the home and staying with our children, but there were some tough days.

Jean
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 04, 2017, 12:18:15 PM: I'm enjoying learning the history of the civil rights and all in the first six chapters, but I do feel it's a bit repetitive. The movie touched on the different racial inequalities but it did not cover as much as the book. I wonder why the producers and writers decided to eliminate most of it? Do you think it would have been too much of a hot button today considering Black Lives Matters and all the violent protests we have had in the past few years? It makes me wonder, because six chapters into this book and it's more on race than on NASA. The movie definitely was more about NASA. I remember reading the book The Help finishing it the night before going to see the movie. Again, the movie eliminated almost all of the racial issues and abuse that took place in the book and actually turned it more into a comedy. I was very disappointed in the movie version, where as with this book I am finding I enjoyed the movie version.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: jane on April 04, 2017, 01:01:25 PM: Ann..do you have a word processing program or Notetab or Notepad on your device?

If so, write your post on that and save it.

If you don't, write your post in an email and email it to yourself.

Write out the whole post, of course. What you sent me was just the link back here.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 04, 2017, 01:19:05 PM: Jane, I have saved it to my email and will repost it (with your help, no doubt). I also have removed g it from the posts that are going on nocew. I also removed the question I asked you. Now I will read your directions for saving it for a later date. Thanks a bunch!😘😘

Here is a very interesting article about Mary Jackson. Another computer but one who went farther.

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/mary-jackson-at-nasa-langley

JANE!!! Is there anyway I can recover or SM can recover those deleted posts that I have now lost. When I deleted them on SL Post they disappeared from my existing email page also. :( :(
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 05, 2017, 10:44:12 AM: I think we will meet Mary Jackson in the coming chapters. In the movie Katherine, Dorothy and Mary were the women of focus with the NASA program in getting Glenn in space. This article you posted left out how in order for Mary to become an engineer she had to first go to the court and petition to be allowed to attend the all white school night classes. It was a very moving part of the movie and I'm hoping we see it in the book.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 05, 2017, 05:54:22 PM: Here's a story that JoanK will identify with :

http://www.popsci.com/planets-and-prejudice?dom=editorspicks&src=syn&google_editors_picks=true
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 06, 2017, 02:37:36 PM: BELLAMARIE: good for you, taking care of your grandchildren. t just goes to show (to rephrase an old saying) "behind every woman is a good women."

Yes, I do indeed relate to that story. But what a thrill, hearing Jupiter!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 06, 2017, 02:50:49 PM: The first six chapters are very vague about what the "computers" were actually doing. PatH and I are guessing that the author doesn't have a technical background.

'm guessing they are doing what I did before the place got a computer: that is acting as a human computer. my memories are vague (I only did it for a few months, before I changed to computer programming. But I was given a calculator and a spreadsheet, with data, and a series of steps to feed into the calculator. The calculator was programmable, but lacked the essential feature that would have made it a computer: the ability to make decisions and modify what it was doing based on the data or the results of it's previous calculation. So every time a decision point was reached, it would give me the output, and I would tell it what the next step was.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 06, 2017, 03:31:53 PM: JoanK., How you explained what you thought their job was is exactly what I understood it to be in the movie. The girls sat at desks with little machines much like calculators punching in numbers they were given. Dorothy had a good insight to go to the library and get a book on programming computers once she got knowledge the huge IBM machine was in the building. Luckily for the rest of the women, she prepared them by teaching them, once she taught herself, so they were ready to switch jobs when needed.

Are we ready to move on to the next chapters?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 06, 2017, 05:02:37 PM: Chap 5 & 6 brought back memories of being given a tour of the Ames Aeronautical Lab at Moffat and walked the entire length of their wind tunnel. Very impressive!

Having graduated from Purdue U. as an Aeronautical Engineer, my husband spent his entire career designing control systems for many different airplanes, even a helicopter. To test those planes, he and his crews, would go to Pax River and Ames Lab and spend long hours and days testing their newest planes. When a company wants to do serious and complete testing they send the test crew, mechanics, engineer and a test pilot. Its a big deal!

He was also a pilot, small planes.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 06, 2017, 08:40:53 PM: Quote from: Annie on April 06, 2017, 05:02:37 PM
He was also a pilot, small planes.
I bet that was useful to him in the testing. He would have the right mindset to know what was important from the pilot's point of view..
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 06, 2017, 09:03:30 PM: Quote from: bellamarie on April 06, 2017, 03:31:53 PM
Are we ready to move on to the next chapters?
The schedule says we're moving on Saturday anyway. No reason why anyone who's read on can't move on now. Chapters 7-12.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 06, 2017, 09:33:08 PM: Sorry PatH., I missed checking on the schedule, I didn't realize it was posted. I'll read the next chapters and hold off commenting on them til Saturday.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 06, 2017, 10:41:19 PM: Surprise of the nicest kind happened today! My granddaughter and her three kids came down from Ann Arbor, Michigan for an overnight!! So I will not be here until evening tomorrow!! Makes me feel so thrilled and loved!! Ages-11, 9 and 1!! 🤓❤❤
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 07, 2017, 12:58:39 PM: Oh Annie there is nothing more fun than a surprise visit from your loved ones. Enjoy every second with them.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 08, 2017, 04:43:53 PM: Annie, you deserve every speck of love they're giving you.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 08, 2017, 04:44:39 PM: A lot of changes happen in chapters 7-12.

We focus on some new people, including Katherine Goble (just glimpsed before) and Mary Jackson. What are they like? Are they different from those we’ve already met?

The work focus changes, some during the war, and much more afterward, as new aeronautical issues come to the fore. Do you remember the fuss over breaking the sound barrier? How do the changing needs of the research affect the organizational structure, and what does this do for the women’s chances for advancement?

There are social and political changes; how do they affect the women’s work?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 11, 2017, 02:59:34 PM: Oh dear it seems we are not getting very many people posting for this book. I have been a bit busy getting things prepared for Easter Sunday, I still make Easter baskets for all six of my grandchildren ages 21, 15, 14, 12, 8, 6 yrs old. I do the Easter dinner and egg hunt at my house so needless to say it requires much shopping. I always do my Spring cleaning with getting carpets done this week so I decided to check in while waiting on Stanley Steemer to arrive. I do hope we can give a little more attention to this book after the holiday, seems a shame it is not drawing more posts considering what important events are taking place.

In chapter 7 Dorothy has rented herself an apartment and has brought her four children and the babysitter to live in Newport News with her. After V-J Day August 15, 1945 layoffs began and women returned to their homemaking.

Chapter 8 Katherine Goble comes on the scene a mathematical whiz. In 1940 Katherine was hand picked one of three to desegregate West Virginia University, the other two were men.

Chapter 9 In 1946 the army decided to make Langley Field the headquarters of its Tactical Air Command, one of the major commands of the US Army Air Corps. One year later the importance of the airplane to US defense was underscored when the Army Air Corps was elevated to the status of an independent branch of the military: the United States Air Force. Dorothy was made a permanent Civil Service employee. In 1949 Dorothy was appointed acting head of West Computing. In 1951 Dorothy was given the position a head of that unit.

In the movie is showed how disappointed Dorothy was having to be acting head of all the girls in the West Unit but not be given the title or pay. I am surprised I am up to chapter 10 and still very little mention of Katherine when in the movie was was more of a major character than Dorothy.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 11, 2017, 05:06:08 PM: I think Katherine will become more and more prominent as the book progresses.

Not only is Sunday Easter, but the income tax is due Tuesday. And I think JoanK has a fair bit of family stuff going on.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 12, 2017, 11:06:34 AM: I'm noticing the book has spent much time about the race issues and how it progresses or in some ways does not progress. Now that the war is over we seem to be getting more into the aerodynamics part of the story where NASA should become the focus. Katherine played a large part in John Glen's orbit into space, if the movie stayed true to the book then it was her calculations Glen trusted over the men.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 13, 2017, 07:40:54 AM: I'm traveling this morning. See you later in the day.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 13, 2017, 05:00:33 PM: Safe travels Path. I went to my grand daughter's class acting out the Stations of the Cross today and am heading back to church tonight for the Washing of the Feet celebration for Holy Thursday. The Triduum marks the end of the Lenten Season and the beginning of the Easter Season. Everyone have a Happy Easter!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 15, 2017, 11:22:52 AM: Quote from: bellamarie on April 12, 2017, 11:06:34 AM
I'm noticing the book has spent much time about the race issues and how it progresses or in some ways does not progress.
Yes, Bellamarie, it certainly was a central fact around which they all had to arrange their lives. The women really show their class inn how they deal. Look at Katherine,when she first arrives at 1244, and the engineer walks away as soon as she sits down. She knows that, whatever his motives, the best way to make things work is to keep it sweet, so she does. And whatever his motives had been, they soon became good friends.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 15, 2017, 11:34:14 AM: Bellamarie, it'been just the two of us for a week, so we can arrange things to suit ourselves. How would you like to play it? Shall we take a break until Monday, and then start on the third section? The Easter flurry will be over, and on Tuesday everyone will turn in their taxes, so maybe things will pick up. As you point out, the book seems to be starting in on the heart of the story now.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 15, 2017, 11:39:32 AM: I'm finding this a very interesting book to read, but a very hard one to discuss. It's such a mass of details, and although they fit together into a story, I'm having trouble pulling coherent themes out if it.

It doesn't help that I'm in Portland trying to settle what to do about a rental apartment that might or might not work out.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 16, 2017, 08:55:08 AM: Yes, PatH., I am fine with setting the pace what ever way you want to. Monday is a good day to begin the next section. I am so glad to hear you are finding this book difficult to discuss because I thought it was just me. As you stated there are way too many details to even try to fit together a story. I am so glad I saw the movie first because it grabbed my attention immediately and kept it throughout the entire movie. This book has not done that what so ever. I can't even get a feel for the characters because they have bundled way too many themes into the story. Good luck with all your business in Portland. I hope it all goes the way you want it to.

Happy Easter!!!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: mabel1015j on April 16, 2017, 11:14:59 AM: I'm not reading the book, i'm still on the list at the library, but I'm enjoying lurking and reading your comments.
I'm sure many women can identify with the offensive actions of people around us who have thought "we", whoever "we" are, didn't "belong", wherever it might have been. It is probably especially true for women over 60, probably not as bad as these women had to deal with, but it may now be more subtle.
When I worked for Dept of Army, there were three times, once I had some authority, that men told me I was "intimidating", "not going to change my mind," "too strong." (I have a voice that is lower in tenor and strong, which has served me well as a teacher or presenter) Two of these men had just met me, the third was very frightened of authority and my position and work were backed by the chief-of-staff. Fortunately in the first two cases, people who I had worked with and knew me spoke up to say "I don't think anybody here is intimidated by Jean Perry, " and a young woman captain said "jean did just what we as officers are trained to, to be assertive and be confident, not aggressive."
The subtle message, of course, was we don't like women being so sure of themselves/being in control/having authority. I worked very hard at walking the line between those behaviors and being a person people wanted to work with/for. Most of the people I worked with were accepting of my authority/program, but a couple of men not being o k with me could be a hindrance.

It sounds like those women at NASA had to work even harder to get respect for what they knew and were capable of.

Jean
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 17, 2017, 09:12:26 AM: Here's another story about a woman in science during the time of our book that I read in The Week

http://news.mit.edu/2017/institute-professor-emerita-mildred-dresselhaus-dies-86-0221

Just retuned from Indianapolis where we welcomed two new members (9 & 7 yrs old) into our church. Very long and beautiful mass-8 to 11:30pm on Saturday night. Then yesterday we visited with the family for a few hours and gave the children their welcome gifts. There were 11 new members welcomed.

So I am just now starting our new chapters so will try to comment later today.

Hope you all had a nice Easter. :) :)
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 18, 2017, 06:27:21 PM: Yes, this is a hard book to discuss. TMI!!

Jean, it can't be very comfortable when people point out mis-read actions. Why are some men so intimidated when a woman is in charge.

I am getting to the end of the book and so glad we have read it. I really liked how Katherine's hard work was so appreciated especially John Glen and by the men she worked with.

Pat, does this mean you are moving to Portland? Remember to get measurements for each room and then you will know what to part with!
I am going to have to do that soon when my apartment becomes available. I am on the list for a one or two bedroom size in a retirement village. The list is long so it won't be ready very soon.

My DIL has offered to spend a day or two every month helping me to decide what to take with me. EGAD!! I do need help!🤓🤓🙏🙏
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 18, 2017, 06:51:17 PM: PatH, sending lots of ❤❤❤ and 🙏🙏🙏🙏!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 18, 2017, 07:55:00 PM: I just finished the book today. I have to admit I scanned and skipped a lot of the pages. I was telling my hubby how I feel the author took on way too many subject matters causing this book to read more like a research book. The author crammed way too much info into the book so much so it bogged me down. I am glad I watched the movie it was so much more enjoyable. I felt like I was able to connect to Dorothy, Mary and Katherine on a more personal level in the movie. In the book the author skims over the lives and professions trying to hit the high points leaving me feeling like I would never connected to them if I had only read the book.

Jean, I hope you do get a chance to read this book. You being a History teacher and a woman's activist in teaching your classes I think this will prove to be an excellent source of information to help encourage, inform and inspire women of all ages, race and creed.

These three black women and all the computers may be considered an exception to the norm at this time in the 1940s, but then again maybe there were far more women like them, and the women of atomic city, and even Henrietta Lacks who just got overlooked or as this title suggests "Hidden".

Annie, If you get the chance see the movie. It has a part in it where John Glen goes up to these ladies and shakes their hands. It was very moving for my husband and me being from Ohio as I know you are too, and the pride we have for John Glen being from our state. He put his trust, faith and life in the hands of Katherine, trusting her final calculations above everyone else's. She did not falter, she never let him down. She had complete faith, trust and certainty in herself.

PatH., My prayers are with you that all works out with your move to Portland. It seems it's been a long process for you but you will be so happy to finally be near your family.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 19, 2017, 03:09:05 PM: Bellamarie, you've summed up nicely what's wrong with the book. And Annie--TMI. When you read about where one more character went to high school and college, you know that by the time she reappears you won't remember her. And it's hard to get a feel for what the characters are really like.

I hoped things would tighten up with the space race, but that doesn't seem to be happening so far. We are getting a more vivid picture of Katherine though, with her fierce intellectual drive, her determination, and her way of defusing conflict.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 19, 2017, 03:26:07 PM: Since it doesn't seem easy to discuss the book in depth, let's all read the rest of it,mor whatever fraction we're going to, and make whatever comments we want.

The space race is starting. What does anyone remember about it?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 10:33:04 AM: Here is an interview of Dorothy Vaughn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gJqKyIGhE
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 10:34:55 AM: Here is Katherine Johnson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-IR3RYYaE
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 10:42:58 AM: And here is: Mary Jackson's story:

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/mary-jackson-at-nasa-langley-1
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: mabel1015j on April 20, 2017, 12:07:12 PM: You may be interested in what Shatterly is up to now. This was in a women's history newsletter I recieved this morning......

https://www.bustle.com/p/hidden-figures-author-is-writing-two-more-books-about-overlooked-black-americans-50113

Thanks for the links to the interviews, very interesting.

Jean
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 20, 2017, 02:38:41 PM: Annie and Jean thank you for the links. When I have some free time I will go watch them. My grandkids are here on Spring break and I can't find a few seconds to myself.

PatH., It takes us all the way to chapter twenty-one to finally get to the space mission and the author only allows a few pages for it. This was a huge disappointment for me.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 20, 2017, 03:06:19 PM: Where I've gotten to, the book is coming up to the sixties, when I left programming for other things. they still seem to be "computing" by hand -- surely NACA (now NASA)had real computers by then. I'm confused.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 03:08:13 PM: In the final pages of this book, the study of Fluid Dynamics, is finally mentioned. My granddaughter and her husband are reading the book to each other and his PHd studies are not mentioned until then! He is a "rock star" in his field! He and my hubby became close friends because they both knew about these studies.
I just noticed that I don't have the right link up for Mary Jackson. I will try to find it now!
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 03:46:42 PM: Here is Mary Jackson:

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/mary-jackson-at-nasa-langley-1
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 20, 2017, 03:47:50 PM: Thanks for the links, Annie. I started with Katherine Johnson. My, her quality shines out. I can see why, whatever his motives in walking away from her the first day, her office mate became a good friend. She's gentle and elegant, with a soft-spoken dignity.

It's interesting how she downplays difficulties. Was this a deliberate philosophy? And her teaching philosophy is what you hope to find in teachers and too seldom do.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 20, 2017, 03:56:12 PM: Mabel, thanks for finding out what Shetterly is doing next. Those are stories that need to be told. I hope she learns to tighten her narrative.

Annie, a rock star fluid dynamics man. I'm impressed. Did your granddaughter meet him through your husband?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 20, 2017, 04:34:07 PM: No, we met him when he visited to tell us that he and Sarah were getting married. They are the
couple who were tangoing in front of the Eiffel Tower In Paris. Remember that pic?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 21, 2017, 12:51:34 PM: For all you who have not checked into the Library section recently I just want to let you know that HBO has a free week end offer and the movie The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks with Oprah Winfrey playing the daughter Debra is on various times Saturday and Sunday. I have Direct TV but I would imagine all providers will be having this same FREE HBO week end. You do not pay anything or need to sign up it is automatically available Fri - Sun. I am taping it. I can't wait to watch. I saw Oprah on The Talk last week promoting it and it looks really good.

Here is a link for the trailer and times:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS722US722&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=the+immortal+life+of+henrietta+lacks+movie
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: JoanK on April 21, 2017, 05:34:16 PM: BELLAMARIE: thank you. I'll go for it.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 23, 2017, 03:44:10 PM: So finally, in the last chapters, we get to the space race, and see what a big part Katherine's calculations played. Every bit of each trajectory had to be exact. One near miss and the astronauts would have been stuck in space, or crashed. One thing I don't understand: during the actual moon landing, Katherine is calculating by hand, comparing with the huge computer, which had also done all the calculations. JoanK, do you know why this was necessary?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 23, 2017, 08:24:24 PM: PatH., In the movie John Glen was adamant that Katherine double check the computers calculations by her own method. He had complete confidence in her moreso than those who entered numbers into the computer. My understanding is one decimal point could make a difference of life and death and her doing it by hand was more trusted.

I hope you get a chance to see the movie you will be amazed at the walls of calculations Katherine worked on by hand daily. Every day the calculations would change. She used a floor to ceiling mobile ladder to reach to the top. The book does not do her justice, nor does it give the space race the attention it so deserved.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 23, 2017, 11:30:51 PM: That makes sense. Can't get good answers if your input is bad.

That section reminded me of how exciting the space race was at the time, and how closely we followed it. When Grissom's capsule disappeared from tracking and communication, we couldn't leave the radio until we knew what went wrong. He managed to come down safely, which made it ironic that he was one of the three killed in a capsule fire later.

More later.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 24, 2017, 09:38:00 AM: Watching the movie when John Glenn goes off radar and communication after he says it's beginning to get hot in there, makes you realize how in an instant something could go wrong and a life could be lost. Knowing Glenn was successful before this part of course let's you breathe a little easier, but knowing he could have burnt up inside that capsule still gave me goose bumps.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 24, 2017, 11:33:53 AM: So many times their lives were hanging by a thread. In the epilogue, Shetterly describes the Apollo 13 near disaster. An onboard explosion messednup the electrical system, making the computer unusable. Katherine and Al Hamer had worked out a backup plan for computer failure--navigation by the stars. Unfortunately, although they had the necessary calculations, they couldn't use the method. Debris from the explosion made a field of glittering bits that looked just like stars. Fortunately, astronaut Lovell had checked out another method on a previous mission--using the boundary between light and dark on the earth's surface as a navigation tool--and knew how to do the calculations. So plan C got them home.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 25, 2017, 02:58:50 PM: Yes, they were only 40 miles off their calculated trajectory when it landed!! Amazing how it all worked out.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 25, 2017, 04:20:42 PM: Well couldn't resist putting this story about Hedy Lamar and her invention(having to do with WWII and the Allies. Amazing story! We were discussing her over in the Library. So here you go:

Inventor[edit]
Main article: Frequency-hopping spread spectrum
Although Lamarr had no formal training and was primarily self-taught, she worked in her spare time on various inventions, which included an improved traffic stoplight and a tablet that would dissolve in water to create a carbonated drink. The beverage was unsuccessful; Lamarr herself said it tasted like Alka-Seltzer.[20]

Copy of U.S. patent for "Secret Communication System"
During World War II, Lamarr learned that radio-controlled torpedoes, which could be important in the naval war, could easily be jammed, thereby causing the torpedo to go off course.[22] With the knowledge she had gained about torpedoes from her first husband, she came up with the idea of somehow creating a frequency-hopping signal that could not be tracked or jammed. She contacted her friend, composer and pianist George Antheil, to help her develop a device for doing that, and he succeeded by synchronizing a miniaturized player-piano mechanism with radio signals.[21] They drafted designs for the frequency-hopping system which they patented.[23][24] Antheil recalls:

We began talking about the war, which, in the late summer of 1940, was looking most extremely black. Hedy said that she did not feel very comfortable, sitting there in Hollywood and making lots of money when things were in such a state. She said that she knew a good deal about munitions and various secret weapons . . . and that she was thinking seriously of quitting M.G.M. and going to Washington, D.C., to offer her services to the newly established Inventors’ Council.[14]

Their invention was granted a patent on August 11, 1942 (filed using her married name Hedy Kiesler Markey).[25] However, it was technologically difficult to implement, and at that time the U.S. Navy was not receptive to considering inventions coming from outside the military.[20] Only in 1962 (at the time of the Cuban missile crisis) did an updated version of their design appear on Navy ships.[26] The design is one of the important elements behind today's spread-spectrum communication technology, such as modern CDMA, Wi-Fi networks, and Bluetooth technology.[5][21]

In 1997, they received the Electronic Frontier Foundation Pioneer Award and the Bulbie Gnass Spirit of Achievement Bronze Award, given to individuals whose creative lifetime achievements in the arts, sciences, business, or invention fields have significantly contributed to society.[27] She was featured on the Science Channel and the Discovery Channel.[10] In 2014, Lamarr and Antheil were posthumously inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame.[28]

Wartime fundraiser[edit]
Lamarr w
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: ANNIE on April 26, 2017, 11:31:11 AM: Did this come up?
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: mabel1015j on April 27, 2017, 05:42:23 PM: I ran into this book review today as I revise my "Women Scientists" presentation for next week. I originally formulated this one about a year ago before I heard about the NASA women, so I'm revamping the narrative and the powerpoint. I'm sure there will be others, if they have any different information, I'll pass them along

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/hidden-figures-the-true-story-of-the-black-women-at-nasa-daring-fearlessly-to-pursue-their-dreams/

Jean
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on April 27, 2017, 09:30:59 PM: Nice interview, thank you Jean. I think this sums up my feeling about reading the book:

"Melfi’s much buzzed-about adaptation, on which Shetterly served as an executive producer, has inspired fans to seek out the book — which spans from World War II through the Cold War, the Civil Rights movement, and the Space Race — and to delve deeper into these women’s stories. But readers must be forewarned: Shetterly references a lot of technical aeronautical terms and procedures. The jargon is there to better illustrate the work these women actually did, but some may find it pace-stalling."

This explains why in the book Shetterly's emphasis is more on Dorothy, although the movie is focused more on Kathrine.

" I am most emotionally attached to Dorothy Vaughan. She was ambitious but didn’t see all of her ambitions realized. She really helped fuel the careers of Mary Jackson and Katherine Johnson, both of whom got a lot of credit. Until now, Dorothy Vaughan hasn’t gotten a lot of credit. So I was determined to create this platform to tell her story."
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on April 28, 2017, 03:56:19 PM: Thanks for the interview, Jean. Indeed, it illuminates some of what Shetterly was about. You can see how she was caught up in all the stories (rightly so; each one was important) and couldn't bear to cut stuff out, which made the book confusing.

I don't quarrel with the amount of technical stuff in the book, but I do quarrel with the presentation. I think it could be described in a way that would make clearer what was actually going on, which would make that part more approachable.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: bellamarie on May 01, 2017, 11:30:12 AM: Where did the Library section go in our Home section? Is there a glitch?

I see the May discussion is carrying on with Sci Fi. I'm not a fan of sci-fi so I will opt out.

PatH., and Joan I want to thank you for moderating the Hidden Figures discussion. It turned out to be a very difficult book to discuss due to the author's over zealous need to cover so many interesting topics all in one book. I'm glad you brought this book to the book club because I never would have went to see the movie had we not had this for our April read.
Title: Re: Hidden Figures ~ Margot Lee Shetterly ~ April Book Club Online
Post by: PatH on May 01, 2017, 02:04:24 PM: It wasn't one of our more successful discussions, but I'm glad to have learned more about these remarkable women. nthanks, Bellamarie, for sticking with it to the end.

The May discussion isn't your cup of tea, but I think you'll like the June-July and August discussions.