Author Topic: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online  (Read 72879 times)

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2010, 05:11:08 PM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.


             



Troublesome Young Men:
The Rebels Who Brought Churchill to Power
by Lynne Olson

The 1930's.  Depression years . Tough times for America.  The nation was self absorbed and little concerned in what was going in Europe.

And what was going on in Europe?  In England there was little interest in confronting the menace of Hitler and his invasion of neighboring countries.

The question is why?  Perhaps you think you know?  Not really, not until you read this book.  

Lynne Olson writes a story that comes alive with the history of England during one of its most perilous periods and bring us a fascinating tale of  TROUBLESOME YOUNG MEN, highly ambitious, powerful, wealthy young men, with their love of life, their love affairs, who put their careers in jeopardy to oust the old and bring in a new government willing to face the evil that was upon them.

JOIN IN WHAT PROMISES TO BE A GOOD DISCUSSION APRIL lst

______________________________

Reading Schedule

April l-8          Chapters 1-5
April 9-15       Chapters 6-10
April 16-22     Chapters 11-15
April 23-30     Chapters 16-end

Discussion Leaders:  Ella and Harold

___________________________________________________________________________________________



Hi, DEB!  Your first book discussion online - what a treat for you, well, I hope it is!  You are traveling by a motor vehicle and staying in campgrounds?  Oh, we did that a few years ago, way before the advent of the internet.

I hope you find internet service available; if not, be assured you can catch with us.  We take a month - a whole month - to discuss a book.  The discussion schedule will be posted under the picture of the cover in the heading above.  We take a few chapters a week.

So happy to welcome you!  

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2010, 05:22:38 PM »
"You have always been most kind to those of us who are ordinarily classed merely as troublesome young men."  Harold Macmillan to Winston Churchill, January 1928

Where the author got the title for the book.

And I thought DANA, particularly, might be interested in the quote.

HaroldArnold

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2010, 05:44:16 PM »
Bookad you are very welcome toJoin our April discussion of "Troublesome Young Men." We look forward to your active participation..  I seem to have had trouble counting the number of participants this morning.  Actually there were 10 including Ella and myself.  With Bookad the count now stands at 11.  Anybody else?

BooKad, our discussions generally run for a full months with maybe another few days or a week for final conclusion comments by all.

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2010, 07:32:53 PM »
DEB WELCOME, WELCOME!

My only contact with Churchill was when I toured the Queen Mary (ocean liner). We were shown a cabin where he stayed and I made a point of sitting at his desk.

I know very little of this period of time in England (we are reading about the same period in Germany in our March discussion of the Book Thief).

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2010, 11:11:14 AM »
Amazing isn't it, JOANK.  And no one planned that we would be discussing books about the same period of history.  THE BOOK THIEF about Germany  (fiction); our book about England.  However, when we discuss our book in April we will be talking about America also during this period.  I am so looking forward to it!

FlaJean

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2010, 05:25:20 PM »
I checked out the book this afternoon from the library.  Will try to join your discussion.

joangrimes

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2010, 07:40:20 PM »
Have to come out of my corner and speak but not about the book but to let Everyone know my good news for the day...My Granddaughter was accepted to Medical School today.  I may never come back to earth after this news...She will be attending the Medical School of West Virginia which is located in Lewisburg West Virginia.  This is near the famous resort area of Greenbrier where the famous secret bunker for US Presidents is supposed to be located.Joan Grimes
Roll Tide ~ Winners of  BCS 2010 National Championship

bookad

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2010, 08:29:03 PM »
Churchill is an amazing person and such good fortune that he was in the place as Prime Minister during the period of history when he was
 --there is a picture in the Orillia Legion with President Roosevelt, Prime Minister Churchill, & William Stevenson---(W. Stevenson was an amazing Canadian **book written by him titled 'Intrepid'**about his involvement with undercover work in world war 2)--between that book & 'Bodyguard of Lies', it is amazing what can be done under extreme desperate circumstances
-I also have 5 in a series of books  (there are more than 5 in the series) written by Churchill about the war & his slant on what happened, have not got around to those yet; so many books so little time scenario
--what really intrigues me is this amazing man, who was so important to the war & his battle with depression, I think he called
 it 'his black dog', and it really came back to haunt him following all the turmoil of the war 
Deb
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2010, 08:31:10 PM »
I know I've been to Lewisburg, WVA, but can't quite place it. Is the main University of West Virginia also located there?

PatH

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2010, 09:12:51 PM »
JoanG, I congratulated you elsewhere, but didn't know where your granddaughter was going.  That's incredibly beautiful countryside, not that she'll be able to look up from her books much.  You said elsewhere that she wants to be a pediatrician.  That's got to be one of the best possible specialties--getting young lives off to a good start.

Thanks for sharing your joy with us.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2010, 11:57:37 AM »
I, too, want to congratulate JOANG and her granddaughter.  Wonderful.

And you brought up Greenbrier, W.VA; the resort was featured in our paper not long ago.  They are attempting to lure middle-class Americans to what has been certainly a hotel for the privileged, the politicians and "those-in-the-know."  Maybe all those wealthy people have found a new gathering hole?  The article told how much the tour though the bunker was and now I can't remember.  Was it $25 or more?

Dana

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2010, 03:00:13 PM »
Congrats on your granddaugher, Joan.    She won't regret it, its a great profession because once you get your MD you can do anything from patient care to administration, to public health, you name it.  I started out doing obgyn, switched to psychiatry, ended in administration with a part time career now as a surveyor.  I'd do it all again !

Speaking of Churchill, it's interesting how so many Americans think he's great, yet he has never been so widely admired in the UK.  He was rapidly kicked out of power after the war, looked down on as a turncoat in the 20s, who  "crossed the floor" (from liberal to conservative) for his own advantage, ordered troops to fire on striking miners and believed in the antiquated glory of Empire and was responsible for major loss of life in the Dardanelles

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2010, 09:34:58 PM »
You're right, of course, DANA.  When most of us think of Churchill it is in terms of WWII, but that is just a few short years of his life and if you are an American we think of Churchill, FDR and Stalin together; quite a few dramatic war years in which so many gave their lives that we may have ours. 


joangrimes

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2010, 01:49:28 AM »
I believe that  we  Americans love him because his mother was an  was an American and we feel that he is part ours.  Just my humble opinion.  There are many things that he did that I did not like but I still love him.  I read a non fiction book about how he ordered the British navy to push the French army of the ships and back into the sea.  According to that account the French Army could have been brought to England and kept fighting from there and France would not have had to surrender to Germany.  It was a fascinating account.  I don't remember the author's name but he was a respected historian.   I wish I knew where my copy of the book is but I don't.  I would really like to look it up but right now I am not in a condition physically to go through my many books.  Of course there is a well known hate relationship between the British and the French.  Some fascinating history to study there also.  I love history.  
Roll Tide ~ Winners of  BCS 2010 National Championship

joangrimes

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2010, 01:58:17 AM »
I do want to thank all of you who congratulated me for my granddaughter being accepted into med school.  She is a special young lady and really deserves to be able to accomplish her goals. I am really proud of her as you can tell. sometime when I am able I will show you a photo of her.  She described the area in which the School is located to me. Pat H.,  She says it is and area that reminds her of the country side in Virginia around Washington and Lee.  Joan K.  the Med school is down the road several miles from the regular University.  Several miles down the road from the Med school is Greenbrier, the bunker for presidents.  Seems to be an interesting area to visit.  Maybe I will be able to do that sometime.  Joan Grimes
Roll Tide ~ Winners of  BCS 2010 National Championship

dixierose4

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2010, 05:32:01 PM »
I have been reading all the posts regarding "Troublesome Young Men" and find the entries interesting.  Will try to get a copy and read before April.  So many things to ponder.  Later.
Another Alabamian.

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2010, 09:11:26 PM »
DIXIEROSE: WELCOME WELCOME!!

Babi

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2010, 09:02:06 AM »
 Ah, here you are!  I've been watching for a link to this site. My thanks
to BookBytes.  I'm looking forward to reading the book and the posts.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

FlaJean

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2010, 11:35:42 AM »
I've started reading "Troublesome Young Men".  Interesting.

bookad

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2010, 12:56:40 PM »
hi there

my book arrived in the mail today, looking forward to reading it!
I knew that Churchill followed Prime Minister Chamberlain, but didn't realize
there was anything other than an election behind everything--I was so impressed with
Churchill after reading 'Bodyguard of Lies'; scary to think how things might have turned out if
Chamberlain had remained the Prime Minister!!
Deb
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

Frybabe

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2010, 12:57:44 PM »
My book arrived yesterday. Looking forward to the discussion.

Dana

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2010, 01:05:19 PM »
Actually the delaying tactics of Chamberlain gave Britain time to rearm.  It was in no shape militarily to go to war any earlier.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2010, 04:21:27 PM »
Thanks, DANA, for the comment.

We will start discussing the book on April lst and be assured that your statement is one we will be debating; there are differing points of view on that subject and it will be very interesting to see what we all conclude!

HaroldArnold

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2010, 06:25:31 PM »
Thanks everyone for your comments posted here .  We appear to have an interesting group poised to begin the discussion by my quick mental calculation a day less than two weeks from today.  How close did I come?

I think there have been some good comments made particularly regarding Churchill.  He certainly made an impression on 1939-40 Americans, me included.  I suppose as one of you said in a post, the year's delay following the Munich agreement did give England some time to rearm, perhaps not much regarding the army and navy, but I know the year did bring the spitfire fighter into operational status.  Also his American Mother seemed to endear him with Americans.  In his war time speech to the US. Congress, he noted that if his father had been American, he might have got there on his own.

kidsal

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2010, 05:31:57 AM »
My book is on the way.

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2010, 12:46:56 PM »
My book has come!!

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2010, 01:27:42 PM »
OH, GOOD, KIDSAL AND JOAN, we have a wonderful group to begin our discussion on April 1st.

Tomorrow I am going to see the movie THE LAST STATION which stars Helen Mirren and while at the Library last week I got a lovely, lovely book written by her with photographs and stories of her life.  Her father, grandfather, were Russians and immigrated to England where because of lack of language skills, etc. both were taxicab drivers.  I must get a couple of her movies at the library and watch them. 

I've seen THE QUEEN, have any of you?

Do you think America still has a fascination with England and all that it represents?  And just what does it represent to us?

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2010, 02:01:06 PM »
I loved "The Queen".

Pat and I grew up with an Anglophile mother, and have been absorbed in things English all our lives. I don't know if it's true of the rest of you, and not of this generation. I don't think the English contribution to literature will soon be forgotten.

marjifay

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2010, 02:03:54 PM »
I just ran across a couple of new books at Amazon.com and Powell's Books that I want to read as kind of a supplement to the book we will be reading.  Thought you might be interested: 

MUNICH, 1938; APPEASEMENT AND WORLD WAR II by David Faber (2009).  "David Faber offers a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at how Hitler outwitted the smug and curiously naïve Chamberlain to win control of much of Czechoslovakia and start down the road to war. Dramatic, exciting, and at times almost unbearably poignant, Munich, 1938 puts a human face to a key turning point in history and makes it come alive." -- per Lynne Olson, author of Troublesome Young Men

1938; HITLER'S GAMBLE by Giles Macdonogh  (2009)  Per Booklist's review, "Nineteen thirty-eight was the year the Nazi regime went into radical high gear, when its leader destroyed two countries and unleashed the worst pogroms yet against Jews. In a journalistic rendering of the year, MacDonogh begins with the shake-up of German army leadership that replaced skeptics of Hitler’s course in foreign policy with reliable lackeys.  Hitler wanted a war in 1938, not the peace brokered by Neville Chamberlain.  For the moment, then, fanatical Nazis had to remain content with persecuting Jews, which escalated drastically toward the notorious genocidal threat Hitler publicly prophesied in early 1939.  An accessible chronicle of crisis and atrocity that should especially interest readers who want to review the gathering storm of World War II."

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2010, 02:55:07 PM »
Well, of course JOANK.  And literature, well, where would you begin?  

And historically.  You mentioned the present generation; have you noticed a change in their outlook of England by any chance?

Particularly in politics or a political nature?

Oh, WOW, MARJ, do those books sound great!  And your comments about them will be greatly appreciated.  Do you have any children/grandchildren - young ones that have studied history (or slept through lectures) - that have any interest in England and America's connection to it; whether from 1620 or 1942?

Isn't England our greatest ally in Europe?  What is our present relationship to Germany?

We can start a conversation about our two countries before we start the book; a preface to April, shall we say?


Dana

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2010, 08:59:32 PM »
I am reading a very fascinating book right now--Hitler by ian kershaw.  It puts Hitler in perspective with his times and shows what an unusual personality he had ( I mean, as well as being totally evil and all that which goes without saying, or which we could not NOT say,politically correctnesswise, even if he wasn't.  Not that Ithink there is anything to say in his favour, don't get me wrong.....)
 But he seems to have cocooned himself into isolation, surrounding himself only by those who agreed with him, and to have become completely  to believe in his own propaganda and invincibility.  Always convinced that he had special gifts, never able to buckle down and work like a regular person, very much ashamed of his failures, very able to seize the moment and dare all, and initially his gambles paid off, increasing that sense of invincibility.  Agreat book except it's two humungous volumes, I just started vol 2.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #71 on: March 21, 2010, 09:20:29 AM »
wHAT AN AMBITIOUS UNDERTAKING, DANA!

Two volumes!  Have you read MEIN KAMPF?  We found it all on the WEb in another conversation.  I'll go bring it here.

Mein Kampf:   http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2010, 09:27:50 AM »
PLEASE NOTE THE READING SCHEDULE IN THE HEADING.  IF YOU ARE GOING TO START READING A FEW DAYS BEFORE APRIL, PLEASE STICK TO THE SCHEDULE WE HAVE PLANNED.  

IT IS SO MUCH EASIER TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION IF WE DO THIS.  

Thank you, thank you, all.  I watched Lawrence of Arabia last night, until it got too late, and so I am in the "bowing" mood.  I bow to you and say SHALOM - is that what those members of the tribes were saying to each other before they left to conquer the Turks in Aqaba.  My hearing is not all that good.

Frybabe

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2010, 01:09:13 PM »
Ella, I hope you enjoyed Lawrence of Arabia. It is one of the very few movies that I found actually stay with the book. I could only find one incident where the book and the movie didn't agree. O'Toole did an exceptional job of capturing T.E. Lawrence IMO.

JoanK

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2010, 02:01:44 PM »
SHALOM is the Hebrew version. In Arabic, it's similar, I'm not sure exactly.

Wish I had seen it.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2010, 05:40:27 PM »
Well, I know the British had the EMPIRE during this period, FRYBABE!  So, of course, Lawrence was sent to Arabia to do exactly _____________?  And what did he do?

I confess when it came to INTERMISSION I went to bed so did not see the end of it and I haven't read the book.

JOANK:  I watch TCM often at night if they look like they were made in this century, hahahahaaa.  They beat all the violence and sex on other stations. 

Dana

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2010, 05:47:48 PM »
I think the movie captures some of the possible truth-- that Lawrence did his own thing, promising the Arabs more that he could possibly gaurantee, and the Brits were still looking towards empire expansion, so the Arabs were sold down the river by him.  Great movie!!  SO handsome....back then....


I have not read Mein Kampf except extracts in various books.  I will take a look.  Thank you for the website.   What I have read of his speeches and quotes from Mein Kampf is grandiose repetetive and nothing you'd think anyone could swallow.  But it was a best seller and made him a millionaire!

Frybabe

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2010, 07:42:23 PM »
When the Arabs revolted against the Turks, Lawrence was sent out to Arabia on a fact finding mission and then became liaison officer. He was a bit of a rogue and made promises to the Arab leaders on behalf of the British government without their authorization. And, of course, the government only gave or held out promises just enough to keep the Arab tribes fighting against the Turks. After the war Lawrence advocated Arab independence, but the British and French governments had other ideas.  You may want to look up the Sykes-Picot Agreement made in secret between France and Britain which was made in 1916, also, the Paris Peace Conference where Lawrence lobbied for Arab independent states. Woodrow Wilson also advocated Arab autonomy. Of course Wilson and Lawrence and ultimately the Arab states lost out.


I have my book and intend to start reading the first five chapters next weekend.

bookad

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2010, 10:04:42 PM »
hi there
have my copy of 'Troublesome Young Men', and beginning to read it--am lurking in the fiction group reading 'the bookthief' and enjoying the links pertaining to it, and also by time period, this book --amazing that it appears Germany really became an entity slowly, like many countries as gradually town/city meshed with the next town/city,  by whatever means
--history to me seems such a puzzle, and I guess there is no way to complete the border so things fit neatly in place sense wise; with history always some new perspective, a new uncovered fact changing my way of looking at the world.  Every new bit of information just pushes me to want to know more, & why, & ....,
--well I guess you get my enthusiasm
-hope to contribute when the book gets going, but find in 'the bookthief', its like double-dutch skipping, and I am forever trying to get into the ropes where the action is.....
  Deb
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wildflower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Troublesome Young Men ~ by Lynne Olson ~ April Book Club Online
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2010, 11:06:40 AM »
Okay, I get what Lawrence was expected to do and what he did, but I will look at the Sykes-Picot Agreement and, of course,  now I want to know how all these Arab countries, the ones America is involved with paqrticularly, came to fix borders anad became Saudi Arabi, Iraq, Afghan, etc.  Perhaps I knew at one time and have forgotten?  Anyway, like

DEB said - I want to get in the ropes where the action is!  I LIKE THAT!

We will be getting there soon, today being the 22nd.

But back to England - and Parliament.

Who understands how Parliament works?  The difference between it and our own Congress?  I know, the Queen, but how much influence does she really have?