Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin

[PatH]

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Ursula Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness A classic, groundbreaking science fiction novel, which explores issues of gender role, honor, trust and suspicion, against a background of survival in a cruelly harsh wintry climate. Discussion schedule: Oct 1-7       Ch 1-6 Oct 8-14     Ch 7-12 Oct 15-21   Ch 13-17 Oct 22-28   Ch 18-20; afterword and appendices for those who have them. Link to afterword. Oct 29-31   Thoughts about anything in the book or Le Guin's other works Questions for week 4 (October 22-28) 1. Traveling on the ice and coping with the weather is described in great detail here. How did this affect you? 2. In this section, Ai feels that he finally truly sees Estraven. What does he see? 3. Why does Ai want to teach Estraven mindspeak? When Estraven learns to mindspeak, why does he hear Ai speak with the voice of his dead brother? 4. Why do you think that the Ekumen sends an envoy alone to an alien planet? 5. Why does Estraven ski into range of the border guards? 6. What is Ai's reaction on seeing his fellow envoys again? 7. What did Ai want to accomplish by going to Estre? 8. Was the ending satisfactory? 9. What are your thoughts about the controversy regarding the use of masculine pronouns for the Gethens and the discussion/examples in the afterword and appendices? Previous Discussion Questions Ursula Le Guin website     Discussion Leaders:  PatH and Marcie

[JoanK]

Steph: how wonderful. I too love classical music, and have listened to many a CD at the library. My old library had a special section for classical music, arranged in alphabetical order. Unfortunately, the order was by whatever word came first on the CD, so Beethoven's fifth symphony with the Philadelphia Orchestra under Eugene Ormandy could be under Beethoven, Ludvig, symphony, fifth, Philadelphia, Eugene, Ormandy, or classical favorites.

I got my book yesterday, so I'm ready to go.

[PatH]

Great, JoanK.  I'll post what's the first chunk shortly.

[Frybabe]

I've started reading. The introduction itself could take a few days of philosophical discussion.

[marcie]

I've started reading. The introduction itself could take a few days of philosophical discussion.

Good point, Frybabe!

I'm glad you have the book, JoanK.

[PatH]

Only 6 days to go!  Let's take chapters 1-6 for the first week.

[Steph]

yes, The introduction is wild.. Lots of things to chew on.

[mrssherlock]

When I looked for the book I learned that it has been assigned to a class hereabouts and there are non available.  I'm hoping Amazon can get it here on time.

[JoanK]

Two days to go!

[PatH]

That's a bummer, Jackie.  I wouldn't have expected that.  I'm glad they read her in school, though.

[PatH]

The first time I read "Left Hand", I had trouble at the start with the many names and countries and conventions.  But it sorted itself out.  In the end, the amount of stuff you have to keep track of turns out to be manageable.

[salan]

I am glad you said that Pat H.  So far, trying to keep track on the names is giving me a headache!  I am struggling through this first part, and hope it gets better soon.
Sally

[PatH]

It doesn't help that the names are so complex.  For instance Estraven's full name is Therem Harth rem ir Estraven.  Therem is his first name, Harth is his last name, and Estraven refers to his family's land--Estre.  It's as bad as Russian novels.  Also, as in chapter 6, she occasionally changes narrator, and you have to catch the clues.  But it's worth it.

[Steph]

I remember struggling with the names before and I am again. But I know it is worth it as the story goes on.

[ursamajor]

I have had the same problem.  The first person voice for two different characters is very confusing in addition to the complex names.  I think I would have enjoyed the book more if I didn't remember the Cold War.  The politics is familiar in spite of the alien location.

[PatH]

Fortunately, the politics is only one aspect of a complex story.  Unfortunately, some of it is still relevant.

[marcie]

Yes, the first person is a bit confusing. You have to read a couple of sentences to get clues as to whether its Genly Ai or Estraven who is talking/writing.

Salan and Steph, I struggle with the names too. I usually don't remember names in the books I read. I just get ahold of the main characters and glide along from there, occasionally needing to look back to check on someone.

Politics is definitely a theme. Ursamajor, it definitely applies to the Cold War, during which it was written but, as PatH says, unfortunately it's also relevant today.

When we start our discussion tomorrow, we can make note of other themes we find in the book.

[fairanna]

Well I AM HERE and my book arrived  Have yet to open it since the mailman left it today...Funny though the other day I called Joan K and told her it had arrived  It was a hardback ( I didnt know it was a paperback) so I put ti somewhere so I would know where it was ...Yesterday I couldnt find it and was so upset  SO this am I TORE up the house trying to find the book We have been having torrential rain and the mail man was late ...when i went out doors to bring it in there was a small package from B&N I couldnt imagine what it was YES when I opened it ..it WAS THE BOOK  I called Joan and I believe I dreamt it had arrived because I wanted to have it before today..Joan and I laughed and when I told my daughter the storyshe said "Sounds just like you!"  this eve I will read the chapters suggested and be back tomorrow to see whatever one is saying ...when I read the synopsis I thought O GREAT I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED ADULT FAIRY TALES  I love to visit someones mind and imagination and it would seem from the remarks I just read this is going to be  good/un   Best to all.. anna

[mrssherlock]

Anna:  My book arrived today also.  Lots of reading to do plus my Latin 101 homework, I may not get to my knitting at all!

[PatH]

Jackie and Anna, hooray!  I was hoping for that.  I'm hoping we'll take things vaguely in order, so if you can even read a bit you'll be set to go.  Just for fun I checked my library, and I guess it isn't assigned anywhere, because I had my choice of 12 copies.

[PatH]

Jackie, was it you who used to have the quote from Socrates: "The misuse of language induces evil in the soul." at the bottom of your posts?

Turns out it's one of Le Guin's favorites.

[marcie]

That's great, Anna and Jackie, that your books arrived. We're all set for tomorrow.

Anna, the book isn't exactly what I'd call a fairy tale or fantasy-science fiction. There are some mythic elements that Ursula Le Guin weaves into the book. It is very imaginative. Le Guin does create a whole other world in a lot of detail. We'll be going through the same journey as the emissary to the world, trying to understand its people and cultures with our own perspectives on things influencing us.

[mrssherlock]

Pat:  Wish I could claim the Socrates quote, but it wasn't me.

[PatH]

At last!  Here we go!  Good morning, everyone. I can hardly wait to get started on this meaty book.  Where shall we begin?  The introduction?  Genly Ai?  Those of you reading the book for the first time, how do you find it?  Rereaders, does it still seem good?

[marcie]

yes, welcome everyone. Where are you in the book so far? Are you reading an edition that has appendices at the back (which you don't have to read until the end; we'll save them for the last few days of October). My own book is an early edition without appendices but my library has the 25th anniversary edition with an afterword and appendices.

[JoanP]

 I was so pleased when my Library sent an email telling me that my name came up in the queue for "Ursula Le Guin's "The Left Hand of Darkness."  With an Introduction by Harold Bloom, no less.

Well, I finally settled down to read the first 6 chapters two nights ago, but was dismayed to find the WHOLE book is full of essays on  Le Guin's work.  But NOT the actual work.  Sooo, I got on the queue for her book again...I'm #3 in line for the book - library owns two copies.  Can't tell how long I'll have to wait.

 I intend to read these essays so that I won't be too far behind when I finally get the book.  Marcie, there is a  index at the back.  How about I become your Harold Bloom resource - when you have a puzzling question, which might be often,  I could look to see what Harold has to say...

He had this to say early on about Left Hand -
"Le Guin's greatest accomplishment, certainly reflecting the finest balance of her powers is The Left Hand of Darkness.  Conceptually and stylistically, Left Hand is the strongest of her dozen or so major narratives.
It is a book that sustains many rereadings partly because its enigmas are unresolvable, and partly because it has the crucial quality of great representation,
which is that it yields up new perspectives upon what we call reality."

[JoanR]

I found my copy of Left Hand of Darkness - knew it had to be somewhere here in this house since it's the sort of book you never let go.  I read it back in the 70's, I think, and loved the writing - such strong images!  The very "otherness" of the story was most intriguing and gave one much to ponder over.  I'm so glad of this nudge to re-read it.  Re-reading is something that I feel forced to give up usually since, now that I have so very many years behind me and who knows how many ahead, I look at all the books on my shelves that I have yet to read and wonder how I'll ever catch up!
I've up through chapter 2 in our reading and already find myself stopping to enjoy a particular word (such as "tillth") or a scene as the one in which Getheren was in the center of the blizzard or the one of setting the central stone in  an arch.
The introduction makes my head spin!  Of course all novelists are liars - I can understand that.  What will take a lot of analysis is the bit about metaphor.

Glad to hear about Bloom's book, JoanP - I'll have to see if I can get it from my library!

[PatH]

"Partly because it's enigmas are unresolvable"--oh, good, that means that whenever there's something we can't figure out, we can say "that must be one of the unresolvable enigmas".  There are lots of things in the book that are open to several interpretations, and it's fun to play with them.  Ai says in the first page or so "...if at moments the facts seem to alter with an altered voice, why then you can choose the fact you like best; yet none of them are false, and it is all one story."

It'll be good to have a resident expert, JoanP, but be careful in your reading.  There are several plot twists that it would be better not to know ahead of time.

[JoanK]

""...if at moments the facts seem to alter with an altered voice, why then you can choose the fact you like best; yet none of them are false, and it is all one story."

Sounds like Six Characters in Search of an AuthoR" ? It's been years since I saw that -- I may be wrong.

I like the idea of unresolvable enigmas.

Had tried to read the book earlier, and was stopped by the unrememorable names. I have a blind spot about names. But it didn't seem so bad this time.

[fairanna]

Well I am not sure how  far I went I will have to check tonight  I read until I felt tired enough for sleep and then read this am for a bit..What can I say ? I LOVE IT and am so glad to be here -----one thing I felt some of the conversations between the two men who were having it could be heard today I cant say but I feel from the whatever I read when I am finished I will feel you could say the same thing about all civilizations  ..past, present future   People wherever they are ,in what ever time frame are going to be  and authors wherever they choose to tell thier story have to use what they know about the people they have known and know...you can put us in the future  the past in imaginary places .. that never existed , dont exist and wont likely insist but even our imaginations can be and are affected by what we have seen in life  and if you are a reader than you most likely have seen it all....but that is what I love about reading .to see what the author is going to tell us and how they use what they already know or imagined... AND FOR ME THAT GIVES ME JOY  I CAN BY THE AUTHORS STORY BE WITH THEM AND LIVE IN THIER TIME FRAME AND "FEEL" what they  tell us.. people who dont read are missing a lot! GLAD I AM ME AND HERE WITH YOU>...

[marcie]

JoanP, I'm sorry that your book doesn't include the actual novel but it's great that you have Harold Bloom's commentary on the novel. It's great that you'll provide that resource to the discussion.

LOL, PatH. I like your take on the "unresolvable enigmas."

JoanK, I'm glad you're forging on.  I hope anyone who is frustrated by the names will just keep going. It will get better.

JoanP, I really like the part of Bloom's description of Le Guin's work that you quoted: "it yields up new perspectives upon what we call reality." That's one of the main aspects of the book that I love. That may be similar to what your experience of the book is Anna. I love what you said!

[PatH]

  ...and authors wherever they choose to tell thier story have to use what they know about the people they have known and know...

Anna, you are so right.  An author who is extrapolating, no matter how fantastical or far afield, is extrapolating from something, and that something has to be the present and the people that he knows.  I'm glad you are liking the book.  I hoped you would.

JoanK, I don't think it's as bad as Pirandello.  You pretty much know the facts of what is happening, it's the details and motives and philosophy that are up for interpretation.

JoanR, I'm glad you are enjoying Le Guin's language and imagery.  It can get pretty intense, as in the story of Getheren (chapter 2).  Really unearthly.

[fairanna]

Well I just finished  the 5th chapter ...I could read faster BUT then I wouldnt be there  and that is the way I feel I KNOW these people and I think we all do because however the author decides  what they say and how they act I keep feeling in some of my reading since I was a child and that they are people I have read about and not always in the past I keep thinkig ok who is living now that I am reminded of....NOW that is a good book!What a great 1st of October today has been ! Hope all of you have had a great day.....

[Frybabe]

I am somewhere in chapter 3, I think. Having had to deal with an accounting test and a paper due today has slowed down my reading time.

What did you all think of the tale of Getheren's exile? I found the description of the world of white and his meeting with Hode fascinating. What we might call a near death experience perhaps?

[Steph]

I have read the first six chapters as that is what someone said for the first week. I want to go on, but am trying not to read ahead this time.
The two narrators was annoying at first, but now I am into it..A winter world.. and as it is hinting,, all people everywhere came from a common source, but that is way too disturbing for these people.. I love the idea.. genetic drift is always an interesting subject.

[PatH]

Now that you mention it, Frybabe, it does have the feel of a near-death experience.  Did you notice that the only part of Getheren to suffer permanent damage from the frost was the part that Hode touched?

I'm glad you're enjoying it, Steph.  What do you like best so far?

[JoanK]

  Faxe tells Ai that they perfected Foretelling "To exhibit the perfect uselessness of knowing the answer to the wrong question."  What do you think of this? 

Fascinating. Myths are full of instances where people asked the wrong question of an oracle, and it distroyed them. But I've never seen it expressed so like this before.

[JoanK]

"4.  Le Guin interrupts her narrative with many bits of Gethenian myth, religion and history.  What does this do?  Does it work for you?

It didn't work for me, because it was so sudden and unexpected. I couldn't shift gears fast enough. Now I am warned, and also realize that the whole story has a mythic quality, I'll reread the story.

[PatH]

JoanK, you'd better oil up your gears.  You'll be shifting them a lot.

[Frybabe]

The questions are ambiguous. They seem clear enough to the asker. To the Forteller, they are not precise enough. I've had that happen to me on occasion.