Author Topic: Poetry Page  (Read 725089 times)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4120 on: July 25, 2016, 01:24:18 AM »
Our Poetry Page Reads
Shakespeare Sonnets


2016 the world commemorates
400 years since the death of William Shakespeare.



April, 1616. A man died, but a legacy was born; one which proved
so essential not only to the development of
drama and literature, but to language, to thoughts and ideas.


A Sonnet a Day
July 1, till December 1,
We read in order, from 1 to 154
A Shakespeare Sonnet each day.


Welcome
Please share your comments about the day's Sonnet.

Link: First Post of Our Discussion on July 1


Shakespeare Anniversary Links
Discussion Leaders: Barb
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4121 on: July 25, 2016, 01:27:19 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXV


Let those who are in favour with their stars,
Of public honour and proud titles boast,
Whilst I, whom fortune of such triumph bars,
Unlook'd for joy in that I honour most.
Great princes' favourites their fair leaves spread
But as the marigold at the sun's eye;
And in themselves their pride lies buried,
For at a frown they in their glory die.
The painful warrior famoused for worth,
After a thousand victories once foil'd,
Is from the book of honour razed quite,
And all the rest forgot for which he toil'd:
   Then happy I, that love and am beloved
   Where I may not remove nor be removed. 

William Shakespeare Sonnet 25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX3eC5wcQao
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4122 on: July 25, 2016, 10:54:32 AM »
Ah, yes, how we can sometimes be so quick to throw someone out of our hearts (frown) after a lifetime of praiseworthy behavior (a thousand victories) by giving greater weight to other less than honorable actions.

For at a frown they in their glory die.
The painful warrior famoused for worth,
After a thousand victories once foil'd,
Is from the book of honour razed quite,
And all the rest forgot for which he toil'd:


I love the final couplet for its confident recognition that he will never be thrown out of his beloved's heart.

Barb: Your neighbor's behavior is outrageous and shocking. I hope you are able to protect yourself and your property from further such attacks and intrusions. It sounds like he definitely has too much access! I wish you well!!




PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4123 on: July 25, 2016, 12:37:43 PM »
That's one of the joys of reading the sonnets this way--all of a sudden coming on something that particularly speaks to us.  We probably all have our favorites, the poems and lines that hit home.

Barb, the jerkin looks like either to me.  It seems to be mostly a bit stiffer than the sleeves, so it could be fur, but the way it curls around the armholes makes me wonder.  Who is the artist?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4124 on: July 25, 2016, 01:12:18 PM »
I don't know why Pat I did not think to look her up - turns out it is a self-portrait - and notable, it is the first self-portrait as an artist in front of their canvas done in Europe - she is from Antwerp and her father, Jan Sanders van Hemessen was a famous mannerist painter.

Where High Renaissance art emphasizes proportion, balance, and ideal beauty, Mannerism exaggerates such qualities, often resulting in compositions that are asymmetrical or unnaturally elegant. Mannerism is notable for its intellectual sophistication as well as its artificial (as opposed to naturalistic) qualities.

They both painted the well placed and the wealthy - Caterina married Chrétien de Morien, the organist of Antwerp Cathedral - somehow after her marriage she was close to the Queen, who after the death of the king renounced her title and returned to Spain where Caterina van Hemessen and her husband followed. After Queen Mary died they returned to Antwerp and for their service they were bequeathed funds to live the rest of their lives in comfort.

Another self-portrait painted in 1548

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4125 on: July 25, 2016, 01:34:57 PM »
Thanks Leah for labeling my neighbor - grrr but it helped to hear someone else say it - from the lines you shared the one line that to me is a ringer and could stand alone is... "And all the rest forgot for which he toil'd:"

Sounds like so much of our lives that we give it our best but the actual work is lost to even our own memory. Really an extension of "they in their glory die."

Reminds me in a poignant way of the many homeless who die alone with no recognition of the work they did accomplish during their earlier life and the difference they did make. I used to help once a month at our local Mary House that is a place the homeless found in the streets who are very very ill who are going to die but the hospitals only allow them to stay 24 hours and often the gal that heads up Mary House would get a call and they would fetch these folks so they could at least die in a bed. Seldom was there any way to trace any family and if there was we all used to chip in to get, usually very poor family member to come and then they would be given the ashes but too many had no one and no way to acknowledge their value - they were not always homeless.

Another thought on this theme - I bet Shakespeare would be anxious about the many private libraries with thousands of books that are never read - the work of writers preserved but the purpose of their work was to be read - I think of places like the Biltmore house, built by Vanderbilt in Asheville NC with it huge two story library that as far as I know there is no system to borrow the books. I often thought with their turning everything about the estate into a money maker and with the extension of the University of North Carolina in Asheville and all the local artist bookmakers in the area they could have a gold mine of students getting credit for cataloguing the library and choosing 5 books a year from the Library that are not your everyday title to have copied into say 50 hand bound copies and sold with the same 5 made available as a general printing run with an annual weekend gathering centered around discussing the books and the authors.  Ha I'm good at coming up with ideas for others but never for myself - ah so... However, this sonnet and your choosing those lines Leah got me going didn't it ;)
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4126 on: July 25, 2016, 03:22:51 PM »
Barb, I'm feeling kind of ticked off at your neighbor too, and I've never even heard of him before.

In this sonnet Shakespeare is contrasting what happens to idols in public life, where the attitude is "so what have you done for me lately?" with him and his beloved, where he is firmly embedded in his love's heart, and can't be displaced.  Of course in real life, that's not always true.  People can fall out of love.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4127 on: July 26, 2016, 05:06:40 AM »
I know Pat, that neighbor is a doozy - usually feel no sense in sharing his over-reaching control and crazy midnight runs to do damage - just makes it more real than I want to acknowledge and prefer to keep the peace by carefully choosing when and how to say anything at all.

If I say anything the damage is worse and here of late it appears if I look at him without open friendliness he takes it as a snub and then I have more property damage - talked it over with my son who had managed 180 drivers so he knows a bit about human nature and together, we realized there was no winning with this guy and WWIII was not going to help me so I had to learn to forget it - it could be worse -

Some in this neighborhood have these weekend rent houses next to them where a bunch of wild collage age kids that sleep 8 to a room and have cases of beer and hard liquor delivered come for a few days for one of our citywide musical venues. It is a constant drunken party with girls, cars taking up the street, often nudity that with young children is not what you want so you have to leave your own house and go someplace everyday for the weekend. 

The Sonnet - Interesting how accepting we are that we can fall in and out of love - I wonder if that is love but some other attraction - I guess I like Clint Black's song that love is a verb.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4128 on: July 26, 2016, 05:08:10 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXVI


Lord of my love, to whom in vassalage
Thy merit hath my duty strongly knit,
To thee I send this written ambassage,
To witness duty, not to show my wit.
Duty so great, which wit so poor as mine
May make seem bare, in wanting words to show it,
But that I hope some good conceit of thine
In thy soul's thought, all naked, will bestow it:
Till whatsoever star that guides my moving,
Points on me graciously with fair aspect,
And puts apparel on my tattered loving,
To show me worthy of thy sweet respect:
   Then may I dare to boast how I do love thee,
   Till then not show my head where thou may'st prove me.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F14RvAZUKw
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanK

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4129 on: July 26, 2016, 04:37:42 PM »
Sounds like he's been bawled out by his patron, and is eating humble pie. Maybe his patron thought he was getting too big for his britches.

I love the picture.

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4130 on: July 26, 2016, 04:46:59 PM »
I didn't think of that.  You're right.  Patron or lover.  He's saying "Even if I can't express myself properly, my feelings of duty (and love in the later lines) are strong, and I hope these lines will tide you over until something makes you notice the strength of my feelings; then I can show my face again"

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4131 on: July 26, 2016, 04:50:21 PM »
I love the picture too.  Who is it?  I wonder why the kneeling man has no sword, just an empty scabbard.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4132 on: July 26, 2016, 07:57:11 PM »
Pat this is what I found...
Quote
In medieval Europe, the swearing of fealty took the form of an oath made by a vassal, or subordinate, to his lord. Feudalism describes a set of reciprocal legal and military obligations among the warrior nobility, revolving around the three key concepts of lords, vassals and fiefs.

Before a lord could grant land (a fief) to someone, he had to make that person a vassal. This was done at a formal and symbolic ceremony called a commendation ceremony, which was composed of the two-part act of homage and oath of fealty.

During homage, the lord and vassal entered into a contract in which the vassal promised to fight for the lord at his command, whilst the lord agreed to protect the vassal from external forces. Fealty comes from the Latin fidelitas and denotes the fidelity owed by a vassal to his feudal lord. "Fealty" also refers to an oath that more explicitly reinforces the commitments of the vassal made during homage.

"Fealty" are duties incumbent upon a vassal that were owed to the lord, which consisted of service and aid. One part of the oath of fealty included swearing to always remain faithful to the lord. The oath of fealty usually took place after the act of homage, when, by the symbolic act of kneeling before the lord and placing his hands between the hands of the lord, the vassal became the "man" of the lord.

Typically the oath took place upon a religious object such as a Bible or saint's relic, often contained within an altar, thus binding the oath-taker before God. Fealty and homage were key elements of European feudalism.

Fealty is distinct from other parts of the homage ceremony, and is usually used only to refer to that part of the ceremony where the vassal swore to be a good vassal to his lord.

Could find nothing about the empty scabbard except that symbolically it is feminine energy - my guess is it shows having less power than the liege as well as the age old ceremony shown in art where the vassal's own sword is used to knight him so it could be next to the king or who ever he is and we just do not see it.

And Joan I like your idea that he may have been eating humble pie but the other thought that makes me wonder if it is a love poem saying he was like a vassal to her - these lines have me question what he is saying...

And puts apparel on my tattered loving,
To show me worthy of thy sweet respect:


If nothing else it is a radical change to the Sonnets we have been reading.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4133 on: July 27, 2016, 01:35:26 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXVII


Weary with toil, I haste me to my bed,
The dear repose for limbs with travel tired;
But then begins a journey in my head,
To work my mind, when body's work's expired:
For then my thoughts (from far where I abide)
Intend a zealous pilgrimage to thee,
And keep my drooping eyelids open wide,
Looking on darkness which the blind do see:
Save that my soul's imaginary sight
Presents thy shadow to my sightless view,
Which, like a jewel hung in ghastly night,
Makes black night beauteous and her old face new.
   Lo, thus, by day my limbs, by night my mind,
   For thee, and for myself, no quiet find.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRL7vM9EFXk
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4134 on: July 27, 2016, 02:30:18 PM »
The poor poet--he's traveling long hours, (away from his love?) getting bone-tired, lying down to rest, hoping to get a good night's sleep.  What happens?  There, in total darkness, he imagines his love, and the sight lights up the whole world, and he can't sleep.

Lo, thus, by day my limbs, by night my mind,
For thee and for myself, no quiet find.

I like that most of these sonnets, though presumably still written to the unknown young man, work equally well if you assume they are addressing a woman.

Leah

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4135 on: July 27, 2016, 03:58:09 PM »
You summed it up well, Pat, and brought light to the darkness of my sightless view! I was having a hard time connecting the meanings in this one.

Almost immediately, though, I noticed the grouping of faces in the upper right quadrant of the painting. Does anyone else see them? They seem to be manifesting out of the tree limb.

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4136 on: July 27, 2016, 04:32:13 PM »
Sorry I have been away for a few days.  My hubby and I escaped to Maumee Bay State Park and Resort for my birthday.  Oh how lovely it was to wake up to a sunrise on the bay, and watch the sun set on the bay. 

I will try to catch up but before I do I have got to say,  Barb the actions of you neighbor is despicable for a human being.  The fact you feel you can not do anything for future retaliation from him almost scares me.  For you to even act as though nothing has happened and address him friendly to keep the peace gives him a clear understanding that you are submissive and afraid of his bully actions.  You are much more tolerant than me because I would have involved the authorities and let him know with no unmistaking clarity his actions will be punishable by law if he persists.  When I first moved into our house we dealt with neighbors who were bullies, and their teen children exposed themselves to my younger children.  My hubby and I went away for a week-end leaving a very age appropriate, trustworthy, mature capable girl to care for our three young kids and the boys in the neighborhood between the ages of 14 - 16 actually forced their way in our home, held the kids and our sitter hostage the entire day.  When we got home and heard what happened I immediately called the police.  They approached each set of parents, and a child detective interviewed all the kids involved.  A neighbor parent had the nerve to come to talk to me and my hubby and say if we expected to be friends and be a part of our neighborhood we must understand bringing the authorities into kid's matters will not be tolerated.  I told him I do not want to be a friend or a part of any such neighborhood who has young boys who act like this, and for him to take his advice and self and leave my house.  I warned the parents and children that if we have any further problems I will be videotaping and prosecuting.  That ended all my problems.   I detest bullying, and you should not ever have to feel intimidated by a neighbor or neighborhood.  That rental property sounds a nightmare.  So very sorry you feel you have no recourse.  I am so glad to hear you are okay from all the reactions to the solution you came into contact with.  I still would consider making out a report to have on file.  I would consider having a camera installed outside your home so he can see his actions in the night time will be caught on tape.  Nothing stops bullies quicker than them knowing their actions will be taped and used as evidence against them.
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bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4137 on: July 27, 2016, 04:41:19 PM »
Sonnet XXVll

Lo, thus, by day my limbs, by night my mind,
   For thee, and for myself, no quiet find.


Oh dear seems our Shakespeare has gotten himself into a quandary with his unrequited love. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

JoanK

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4138 on: July 27, 2016, 05:31:37 PM »
And once again, BARB has found a picture for it: a youth lying in bed with all kinds of figures (presumably imaginary) intruding.

I like this poem a lot, too.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4139 on: July 27, 2016, 07:50:19 PM »
Ok Joan the picture - painted in 1908 by Russell Flint and called, La Belle Dame sans Merci - after the poem of the same name by Keats.

The poem is considered by many to be one of the loveliest of the literary ballads. It begins when a person passing by on the side of a hill comes upon a knight at arms who seems lost and dazed. The knight describes his meeting with a beautiful lady without mercy.

LA BELLE DAME SANS MERCI

O what can ail thee, Knight at arms,
Alone and palely loitering?
The sedge has withered from the Lake
And no birds sing!

O what can ail thee, Knight at arms,
So haggard, and so woe begone?
The Squirrel’s granary is full
And the harvest’s done.

I see a lily on thy brow
With anguish moist and fever dew,
And on thy cheeks a fading rose
Fast witherest too —

I met a Lady in the Meads,
Full beautiful, a faery’s child.
Her hair was long, her foot was light
And her eyes were wild —

I made a Garland for her head,
And bracelets too, and fragrant Zone
She look’d at me as she did love
And made sweet moan —

I set her on my pacing steed
And nothing else saw all day long
For sidelong would she bend and sing
A faery’s song —

She found me roots of relish sweet
And honey wild and manna dew
And sure in language strange she said
I love thee true —

She took me to her elfin grot
And then she wept and sigh’d full sore,
And there I shut her wild wild eyes
With kisses four.

And then she lulled me asleep
And there I dream’d, Ah Woe betide!
The latest dream I ever dreamt
On the cold hill side.

I saw pale Kings, and Princes too
Pale warriors, death pale were they all;
They cried, La belle dame sans merci
Thee hath in thrall.

I saw their starv’d lips in the gloam
With horrid warning gaped wide,
And I awoke, and found me here
On the cold hill’s side

And this is why I sojourn here
Alone and palely loitering;
Though the sedge is withered from the Lake
And no birds sing —

~ John Keats (1795-1821), English Romantic poet

However, there is more in the painting - yes, Leah the figures in the trees that if you notice, adjacent to the tree a long staff or totem that is nicely carved although we cannot see the top - it disappears beyond the painting - for our purposes as a sleeping man who is dreaming the painting works - and to associate it with the Keats poem works - however, there is more... and those figures and the totem tell another story.

During the Viking Age, “warrior-shamans” typically fell into two groups: the berserkers (Old Norse berserkir, “bear-shirts”) and úlfheðnar (Old Norse for “wolf-hides”). These groups were of the earlier Germanic warband, and had in common the shamanism of other circumpolar peoples.

Circumpolar is one of five groups of stars always visible above the horizon and it also refers to being surrounded or located at or near either of the earth's poles. The Norse early religion includes a tree as the earths axis or pole that was often symbolized in ceremony as a staff and a totem.

Both the berserkers and úlfheðnar shared a common set of shamanic practices - the difference - the totem animal of the berserkers was the bear, the úlfheðnar was the wolf. Our painting does not show us which animal is on top of the totem.

Now the good stuff - an initiation process using a symbolic death and rebirth, when the shaman-to-be acquires his  powers. In preparation they spent a period in the wilderness, living like their totem animal and learning its ways, sustaining themselves through hunting, gathering, and raiding the nearest towns. They ceased to be ordinary human being and became instead a wolf-man or a bear-man, more a part of the forest than of civilization.

On the battlefield, the berserker or úlfheðinn would enter the fray armor-less and naked wearing only his animal mask and pelts into battle and were as crazed as dogs or wolves and as strong as bears or bulls. They bit their shields and slew men, while they themselves were not harmed by fire nor iron. This is called “going berserk" howling, roaring, and running amok with godly or demonic courage.

A warrior’s shield and weapons were the emblems of his social identity and status. They were given to a young man who had come of age by his father to mark his arrival into the world of rights and responsibilities of his society’s adult men.

Biting or discarding the shield, the mythical beast triumphed over the petty man, and “Odin’s men” tore through the battle, in a trance impervious to pain.

Notice in the picture his shield hangs in a tree - I would guess the other male figures in the trees represent Odin or his men, such as Egill Skallagrímsson and Starkaðr, warrior-poets. Although our young warrior is dressed he is not in typical fighting gear however, there is a metal helmet near his feet.

If this is the real story behind the painting then the woman is probably a Valkyrie, a female supernatural figure associated with fate and in particular, chooser of the slain. Viking Age stylized silver amulets depicting women with long gowns, their hair pulled back, sometimes presenting drinking horns have been found throughout Scandinavia. These figures are commonly considered to represent valkyries.

So have your pick - weary traveler - Keats, sleeping knight - or one of the Norse fighting men either dying or living in the forest and going into his trance



“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4140 on: July 27, 2016, 08:03:33 PM »
Bellemarie - thank you for your concern and oh my what a horrible experience for you and your family - safe neighborhoods can sometimes be playgrounds for those who we cannot imagine their behavior being anything more than something we read about - certainly not living next to us...

And yes, our weary traveler is in a quandary isn't he...

Pat you started us off today and that is a great reminder that these Sonnets can be read as being spoken to either a man or a woman. Because if we were to use the Norse interpretation of the art work it would be a message about the sleeping knight or if the message was to a women the thought of the weary traveler seeing within the blackness could even be a premonition or dream of a beckoning valkyrie.

Looking on darkness which the blind do see:
Save that my soul's imaginary sight
Presents thy shadow to my sightless view,
Which, like a jewel hung in ghastly night,
Makes black night beauteous and her old face new.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4141 on: July 27, 2016, 11:10:50 PM »
Leah, I didn't see the faces in the tree until you pointed them out, but I saw the cat and some other spooky stuff.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4142 on: July 28, 2016, 01:46:18 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXVIII


How can I then return in happy plight,
That am debarr'd the benefit of rest?
When day's oppression is not eas'd by night,
But day by night, and night by day, oppress'd?
And each, though enemies to either's reign,
Do in consent shake hands to torture me,
The one by toil, the other to complain
How far I toil, still farther off from thee.
I tell the day, to please him, thou art bright,
And dost him grace when clouds do blot the heaven:
So flatter I the swart-complexion'd night,
When sparkling stars twire not thou gild'st the even.
   But day doth daily draw my sorrows longer,
   And night doth nightly make grief's strength seem stronger. 

William Shakespeare Sonnet 28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG6O-UTauv8
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4143 on: July 28, 2016, 11:14:45 AM »
Sonnet XXVIII

But day doth daily draw my sorrows longer,
   And night doth nightly make grief's strength seem stronger.


From what I can gather is he is on a journey to return to his lover and is finding it unbearable to be away. 

I agree, I think these sonnets can surely be looked at either for a man or woman.  Knowing he was writing them for his young male does not take away the possibility these sonnets could be given to a female from a male, or vise versa.  Regardless, they speak of a love so deep it pains you from being absent from your lover.

Barb,
Quote
safe neighborhoods can sometimes be playgrounds for those who we cannot imagine their behavior being anything more than something we read about - certainly not living next to us...

These words could not be more truer.  We have had more experiences that would blow your mind, thinking living in these picture perfect neighborhoods exempts you from sick, deranged people is a falsehood. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4144 on: July 29, 2016, 02:02:39 AM »
I appears Shakespeare is writing a flury of Sonnets about being alone - yesterday, in sleep and today, traveling a long distance away - both Sonnets are a bit depressive - he sees his loneliness caused by being separated from the one he loves

I agree Bellamarie the lines you chose are lovely - I especially like the last one you chose. And night doth nightly make grief's strength seem stronger - in times of grief I do not remember being more stricken at night but then it can be calling us to think on the night of our soul so that day or night our inner being is in a dark place.

I had to laugh aloud as I read, "I tell the day, to please him, thou art bright," I remember that about Fiddler on the Roof when Tevye talks to and even shakes his fist at his God - I never think to give a personality to the day or the night or a tree or even God. My God is an energy rather than a man who is a superman in disguise with all his power hidden beneath his robes. Other aspects of nature to me I never think as having a personality but how much fun to think that way and to have a conversation with these entities.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4145 on: July 29, 2016, 02:05:40 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXIX


When, in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state,
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries,
And look upon myself, and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur'd like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least;
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCL_NEgf0g
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4146 on: July 29, 2016, 02:08:03 AM »
Stay with the Youtube link if you want to hear Sonnet 29 - it is by a younger Matthew Macfadyen and it starts off a bit slow as he appears to be shopping in a video store before he is actually speaking the Sonnet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOCL_NEgf0g
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4147 on: July 29, 2016, 11:29:18 AM »
Sonnet XXIX

Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featur'd like him, like him with friends possess'd,
Desiring this man's art and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least;


Shakespeare seems to not be satisfied with what he has, or maybe where his life is at this moment.  He seems to desire what others have.  This reminds me of the 10th Commandment

Exodus 20:17  "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
http://biblehub.com/exodus/20-17.htm

Then in the last lines:

Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings

 
Shakespeare is able to get out of his funk by remembering what he has had.  Isn't that true in all of us?  We tend to forget what he have or have had at times and look at what others seem to have and begin to feel depressed and down.  Yet, once we take the time to stop dwelling on what others have and we don't, and really appreciate what is or has been in our lives, we can see the love, beauty and grace we have been given.

Barb, Yes, I think from time to time we all tend to put entities as beings to talk to or relate to in a physical sense.  I took a photo while watching a sunset on the Bay while away these past few days and it is amazing what the cloud formation shows.  Have a look:



I see the profile of God with open mouth, looking at the white dove Holy Spirit with wings in flight.  I showed this picture to our parish priest who happened to be visiting us the other day and he was simply in awe.  I said I do believe God likes to show off and reveal himself to us in many ways.  It's okay if no one else sees this, I just feel pretty special that my eyes can.

p.s. Still not sure how to resize pics so feel free to make this smaller.
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PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4148 on: July 29, 2016, 05:05:10 PM »
Shakespeare seems to be having a rough time.  After several poems in which he's separated from his love, now we learn he's had some setbacks in life.  His whole outlook is blighted.  Look at the last line of Bellamarie's quote:  "With what I most enjoy contented least".  He can't even take pleasure in the things he normally likes.  But then he thinks of his love, and his sense of joy returns.  The lark is a powerful symbol here; you hear it unexpectedly, because it's so high in the sky you don't see it, and its song is beautiful and joyous.

It's a lovely poem.

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4149 on: July 29, 2016, 09:05:07 PM »
PatH.,  I kind of felt a bit melancholy for him in this poem.  He sure has changed in the past few sonnets.  Much more forlorn and somber.  It's as though he has lost his lover. 
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__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4150 on: July 29, 2016, 11:44:42 PM »
Interesting how we each have a different reaction reading these Sonnets - yes, Bellamarie they are more somber aren't they.

For me that first line I thought set the mood and I could taste the shame and depression knowing at that time in history to be without a fortune or to have lost a fortune is to be so low in the eyes of others, in addition there would be the possibility of prison -  When, in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes, although to me he was not comparing himself competitively or being envious of others but rather feeling alone and crying to God much like Tevya cried to God in his frustration and that in-spite of his feeling his fate was cursed he still had hope. I saw his saying he still had hope when all around him was failure as his ability to have 'hope in the unknown' which, as you read St. John of the Cross is the definition of hope. 

Bellamarie, your admiring the cloud formations reminded me of when we were kids and a few of us would lay on our backs in the grassy spot on top of the hill where we usually flew our kites and we made things out of the clouds. Almost meditative doing that.

And yes, as you can see made the lovely photo just a bit smaller - nice photo of the clouds which reminded me of the clouds we see here in October - as of now the sky is either clear with a sun that is so bright and hot you cannot look at the sky or huge monster clouds that blow up from the coast full of moisture but looking more like a child's nursery rhyme book or piles of ice cream and whipped cream.

Pat that thought you shared "He can't even take pleasure in the things he normally likes.  But then he thinks of his love, and his sense of joy returns." so true isn't it - when we are down thinking of even something we love that we can see in our minds eye brings a smile to our hearts.

Need to remember that when there seems like too much crowding in - to think of my family or something I love - read today that thinking positive thoughts and most important saying positive rather than negative words actually affects our brain so that we become motivated to take charge of our life and our choices. No wonder we gravitate to folks who are upbeat and positive.

Bellamarie you also see these last few Sonnets as feeling forlorn and somber - he lost something - or at least he is writing about losing - this could be a theme or it could be Shakespeare is writing from his personal experiences. Knowing how writers often disguised things that could not be said aloud in a metaphor these poems of loss could be about anything couldn't they.

 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4151 on: July 29, 2016, 11:47:52 PM »
Oh yes, in the heading there is another link added - found this great BBC special from Michael Wood on Shakespeare's mother - all the places she lived and how life was for women during her time in history living in Britain, the show is an hour long and lovely - just lovely - The Secret Life of Tudor Women - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpiY5kssU4
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4152 on: July 30, 2016, 01:01:49 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXX


When to the sessions of sweet silent thought
I summon up remembrance of things past,
I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought,
And with old woes new wail my dear time's waste:
Then can I drown an eye, unus'd to flow,
For precious friends hid in death's dateless night,
And weep afresh love's long since cancell'd woe,
And moan the expense of many a vanish'd sight:
Then can I grieve at grievances foregone,
And heavily from woe to woe tell o'er
The sad account of fore-bemoaned moan,
Which I new pay as if not paid before.
But if the while I think on thee, dear friend,
All losses are restor'd and sorrows end.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LDIFwejTr8
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4153 on: July 30, 2016, 11:50:37 AM »
Sonnet XXX

But if the while I think on thee, dear friend,
All losses are restor'd and sorrows end.



It's a continuation of Shakespeare in sorrow.  He seems to be reminiscing about lost relationships, be it friends, family, or lost loves.  It appears that he finds comfort and solace in the memory of his dear friend.

Yes, Barb I agree we do tend to gravitate to those who bring positive feelings in us rather negative.  As I have gotten into my sixties I have found I am so much more selective in who I want to spend my time with.  I am more tolerant of debbie downers, but spend far less time in their company.  It's so much easier to enjoy positive people who reciprocate your joy. 

I absolutely love looking to the clouds and seeing if there are any images formed.  It's truly amazing what people have posted on social media of the different formations visible to the eye.
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4154 on: July 30, 2016, 01:51:19 PM »
His sorrow seems to be shifting: first, having to travel away from his love, then disappointment in his ambitions or accomplishments, and now he adds regret for absent and dead friends.  It's fun to compare the different sonnets saying the same thing, some better than others.  Do you have any favorites?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4155 on: July 30, 2016, 08:01:16 PM »
Finding the photo of the sculpture in New York made from only the material left at ground zero, the World Trade Center after 9/11 brought this Sonnet to another level for me.

Yes, Bellamarie "about lost relationships, be it friends, family, or lost loves" does makes it personal doesn't it and yet, the losses that we pay homage to on the anniversary of a date - not only 9/11 but Armistice day and Memorial Day and the Wall in D.C. - all the sacrifice offered by those in this nation who was someone's friend or family member or love. I wonder how many who have lost a loved one to the cause of this nation feel comforted reading this Sonnet - probably not many know the Sonnet but those who do , sure hope the words of Shakespeare helps.

For precious friends hid in death's dateless night,
And weep afresh love's long since cancell'd woe,
And moan the expense of many a vanish'd sight:
Then can I grieve at grievances foregone,
And heavily from woe to woe tell o'er
The sad account of fore-bemoaned moan,

Like most of us I have not often felt "The sad account of fore-bemoaned moan," except when looking at something like a memorial however, that line sure hits home, sinking deep into the pain of sorrow as we think on personal losses of family and friends.

I can see Pat what you are saying - yes, his sorrow has been shifting - Never have read all the Sonnets and now reading them one after the other there is a pattern - you have to wonder how they were written - did he write a group at once or did he take Sonnets written over time and place them in a continuum. I am sure there are many theories written by the many who study his work but not actually being there they are theories and so, we can wonder until a note surfaces from Shakespeare explaining his plan, which allows us a wondering mind.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4156 on: July 31, 2016, 01:02:27 AM »
Shakespeare Sonnet XXXI


Thy bosom is endeared with all hearts,
Which I by lacking have supposed dead;
And there reigns love and all love's loving parts,
And all those friends which I thought buried.
How many a holy and obsequious tear
Hath dear religious love stolen from mine eye,
As interest of the dead, which now appear
But things remov'd, that hidden in thee lie!
Thou art the grave where buried love doth live,
Hung with the trophies of my lovers gone,
Who all their parts of me to thee did give;
That due of many now is thine alone:
Their images I lov'd I view in thee,
And thou (all they) hast all the all of me.   

William Shakespeare Sonnet 31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu7UT6vHFpc
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4157 on: July 31, 2016, 12:42:18 PM »
Sonnet XXXI

And there reigns love and all love's loving parts,
And all those friends which I thought buried.
How many a holy and obsequious tear
Hath dear religious love stolen from mine eye,


I'm not sure who Shakespeare is directing this sonnet to, is it God?  He seems to be saying that he has lost all his loves to him (religious love stolen from mine eye), and they have taken all his love with them.  It appears he is acknowledging that God is of all love, and to look to God, he is able to see all love, and those past loves still alive.  I get a very spiritual sense in this sonnet. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden

PatH

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4158 on: July 31, 2016, 02:43:15 PM »
I had made the opposite assumption: that he was addressing his beloved.  The qualities he mourned in his former loves are enshrined in his present love, and the pieces of himself--his heart, his love, etc, that he had bestowed on the former loves are now gathered together as the property of the current love.

The wording could fit either interpretation.  What does everyone think?

bellamarie

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Re: Poetry Page
« Reply #4159 on: July 31, 2016, 06:23:24 PM »
Yes, PatH., I can see it fit either interpretation. 
“What on earth could be more luxurious than a sofa, a book, and a cup of coffee?...Was ever anything so civil?”
__Anthony Trollope, The Warden