Poetry Page

[Frybabe]

Our Poetry Page Reads
Shakespeare Sonnets

2016 the world commemorates
400 years since the death of William Shakespeare.


April, 1616. A man died, but a legacy was born; one which proved
so essential not only to the development of
drama and literature, but to language, to thoughts and ideas.

A Sonnet a Day
July 1, till December 1,
We read in order, from 1 to 154
A Shakespeare Sonnet each day.

Welcome
Please share your comments about the day's Sonnet.

Discussion Leaders: Barb

 

Just popped in to see how things are progressing and read this last sonnet.

Well, that is a whopper, isn't it. Says a lot, encompasses a lot in a few words.

I think these lines, particularly, pop out at me.

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action;

Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;

   All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
   To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.


Lust, greed, intemperance (ex: gluttony), maybe envy. The sonnet covers several of the seven deadly sins.

Shame, in itself, has a powerful psychological impact on a person. And, it is transferable to others, particularly family members. 

[bellamarie]

Frybabe, WELCOME!!!  Great insight into seeing the seven deadly sins.  You are so spot on in your deduction of shame and transferring to others especially family.  I would add guilt into that mix as well.  So many times guilt can be such a driving force.  I struggle with feeling guilty if I do not help out certain family members who don't have as much as I do, although I know they are not living a life on the straight and narrow.  When do you say no, knowing it could be going for a not so good purpose? 

Anyway..... I loved waking up and seeing your post.  Be back later gotta get ready for church.

[BarbStAubrey]

Whee figured it out - yes I did not look closely last night and put today's Sonnet as the last post and then did not get the heading up on the first post of the new page - sorry Frybabe - you were caught - but glory glory hallelujah - I was able to get the heading included in your post by not putting lines between the heading and your message - the new upgrade has been a challenge to prepare and upload headings

I like how you saw the seven deadly sins in this Sonnet - i was so focused on passion over duty that I missed it so wonderful - so glad your fresh eye saw that - nice to read your thoughts Frybabe - all we have left is 25 more Sonnets - it has been quote an adventure - who ever started the rumor these were love Sonnets sure started a message of propaganda - even though the topic of this is about a love relationship it is anything but about love -some do not even have love as the topic but a lot of victimizing himself and as Bellamarie earlier said, OUCH!!!!   Is this what they call justifying, the unjustifiable. 

And yes, I too see the guilt you've mentioned Bellamaire - seems to be almost a constent theme with him doesn't it.

I'm seeing this as one long rant - the first 12 lines are all ONE sentence. Whew the ONLY period is after the word dream. Then a breath and a quick one two punch commenting on this rant in two lines. He sure has a head full of steam on this one...

For me I took this one step removed - instead of acting on lust for a lovelife I saw the passion as a lust for whatever grabs us that we end up pursuing rather than what is the responsible use of our time.

For me, the satisfaction that come from making contact with others and to share thoughts without interruption keeps me on facebook far too long - or how often I was in the middle of a good book and as a kid i delayed coming when mom called and now, that there is no one depending upon me, I read far too late into the night or do not prepare a proper meal because i do not want to leave what i am reading.

I'm thinking we lust after what brings us satisfaction and even joyfulness - but completing a task that is expected sometimes there is that feel-good moment but other times it is like finally finished and nothing i looked forward to nor will ever look forward to doing agiain; yet, like income tax all that paper work must be repeated next year. Will preparing tax receipts ever be a passion and yet, for some, like accountants, they love that kind of work.   

And so I too ask the question, how To shun the heaven that leads (wo)men to this hell of guilt over delaying responsibilities that the delay can even represent trouble. How do we avoid trouble by not reacting to our passions and lust for what pleases.

[PatH]

And speaking particularly of sexual lust, he's saying that as soon as it's over one is disgusted with oneself, ashamed, tormented.  Then the final couplet:

All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

We know we're going to regret it, but we can't make ourselves be sensible and not do it.

And as you point out, Barb, it applies much more widely than my narrow interpretation.

[BarbStAubrey]

He is sure different than the Romans isn't he Pat - as we read some of Ovid it appeared that lust had no ramifications of "perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame, Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust," except to the woman who would not submit or to the man after submission that angered the goddess - the difference in the Sixteenth century I'm thinking has to do with vows - marriage vows...

Between 2000 or so BC and the sixteenth century marriage became the accepted act of a couple in 'lust' so that the poet must feel all this shame because he is acting on his lust without marriage or a plan for marriage.

Is taking a vow to couple for life causing a harness that contains and retains a man's lust for another - vows for a women represented security - what was the benefit for the man I wonder - we may see love and lust for our beloved as one but we often hear for many the tie is not there - and so I wonder why a man entered into the vows of marriage other than for a dowry and if a farmer to have children to help with the work so the farm could be prosperous.

Hmm this is a research item - why did a man take up marriage - what was the benefit because as the poet alludes, to follow his lustful feelings leaves him with shame and yet, so many men and women were unfaithful; even kings and queens, chiefs, statesmen, sailors, soldiers, men and women in all walks of life acted freely on their lust ignoring the constraint of a harness.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXX

 

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; Coral is far more red than her lips' red; If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head. I have seen roses damask'd, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks; And in some perfumes is there more delight Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. I love to hear her speak, yet well I know That music hath a far more pleasing sound; I grant I never saw a goddess go; My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:    And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare    As any she belied with false compare.

William Shakespeare Sonnet 130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJYwKUMXwDg

[PatH]

Men in all walks of life would have a need for legitimate heirs and someone to run their household.  Agreed, many marriages were practical arrangements having nothing to do with love.  I wonder whether most men felt guilty about infidelity.

[PatH]

Well, we have a lighter mood in #130.  He's making fun of the elaborate poetical praise of beauty popular at the time.  His love is none of these absurd comparisons.  But he ends sweetly; his mistress isn't beyond compare, but his love for her is incomparable.

[BarbStAubrey]

Do you think that is it Pat - the rational for men to marry - "Men in all walks of life would have a need for legitimate heirs and someone to run their household."

I forgot how property is passed to legitimate children - and so there would be an economic tie that only marriage would provide - most want to pass on something that is a legacy - hmm so that is maybe why we have many Sonnets talking about time and the very early Sonnets talking about having children - it is a legacy thing...!

Goodness it was said often enough wasn't it but it did not penetrate for me till I saw the connection to a desired legacy and for many that legacy would be their land - although, it seems to me in Shakespeare's will there was something about his bequeathing his bed - I remember seeing the bed - it was a four poster - a bit shorter than we are used to seeing today and of course not king or even queen size - Never thought to ask what wood from what tree was used to make the bed or who made it.

Few folks today have handmade furniture or even furniture valuable enough to include in a will and the few that do have valuable furniture, it is probably an antique rather than anything purchased today.   

I think the other information that helps me appreciate the idea of a legacy is after reading several books on the tribal culture in the middle east and how it relates to women wearing clothes that conceal themselves. The concept of Tribal Purity is an economic necessity to a family - controlling women is controlling the tribal purity of children -

Seems the tribes collectively own all sorts of assets that started historically owning land that included a well and then gradually today there are tall skyscrapers that the profits go to the tribe or oil that again, the profits go to the tribe that owns the mineral rights - down to park land - so that if someone marries outside the tribe (the smallest tribal group being in the thousands and the larger in the millions) the family no longer receives their annual share of the profits - not just the girl or boy who marry outside the tribe but the entire family - just as we can identify various cultural appearances the police in the middle east can identify if you are Tribal Pure and what tribe you are associated so that if you are not Tribal Pure you are not allowed in certain parks and the police will escort you out of the park. Of course the head scarf worn by the men is a give-away.

Reminds me of the many Indigenous tribes gathered at Standing Rock N.D. that folks can tell from appearance which tribe the belong - I look at the many not in formal tribal wear and cannot tell from which tribe they belong by their facial features and body shapes. 

Having learned how tribes value keeping the legacy of their genes I can appreciate how among westerners, men value legacy - thank goodness we have gone past the time when father's chose husbands and marriage provided the legitimacy of "legacy".

And yes, Pat this is a cute and fun poem isn't it - I can see it said dead pan as much as I can see it said with a wink and sly smile.

[bellamarie]

Well, PatH., this is why we need more members to participate in our discussions.  You have brought a new light to these sonnets I had not thought about.  I did have a problem with the fact Shakespeare professes his undying love for this young boy, yet then admits to having a mistresses.  So, if he took up a mistress for the purpose of an heir, are we to assume he is using the term mistress as in wife?  He never gives the impression he ever was married in these sonnets, unless I missed something.  But if he is using the word "mistress" as wife then it just didn't realize that.  And if that is the case why did he go on and on about all his infidelities?   

Ouch....  I do not see him being very kind whatsoever in any of these lines.  No, not so eloquent in my opinion.  Is he making fun of other poets as if they over do their descriptions and if so has he not done the same in all his prior sonnets?  Phew.....I may be a bit burnt out on these sonnets.   

[BarbStAubrey]

You are on target Bellamarie - not kind but a kind of banter - we do it here in this part of the country a lot in the opposite way - if someone is being rude or outrageous - we agree with them and make all these agreeing revelations that would support the person who is being rude and say it in an dead pan way so that everyone else in the group knows it is a put on to bring down the person who found fault or was rude - where as in this Sonnet he is doing almost the same by taking all her wonderful characteristics and coming up with the opposite - it is a tease that some still do to those they care about -

It is so hard to write voice intonation and body language - I see many take seriously what is a joke on social media - we really do not realize how much the way we say something influences its meaning do we.

Today the word mistress has an entirely different meaning - a women of ill repute is the most polite way of saying it - even during the twentieth century, men who had a paramour on the side would call her his mistress where as, in the sixteenth and seventeenth and even on through the nineteenth century it was referring to a woman who has power, authority, who employs or supervises servants or was in charge of a school or simply the head of a household.   

I think the word mistress is no longer in style - too bad - the nursery rhyme  “Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary” for me, always involves a double take - why are they so chauvinistic or, maybe simply a dummkoph or, did they not have anyone to teach them the rhyme is, “Mistress Mary, Quite contrary”. Ugh how banal "Mary, Mary..." - no dignity, completely lacks the elevated opinion describing the sauciness of a girl having the chutzpah and courage to being contrary. Humph... My rant for the day about the subtle ways the public brings down women by lowering our admiration for the acknowledged ability a girl-child has to be contrary.

It is a poem like this Sonnet 130 that makes us aware of how far we are removed from the language and thinking of Shakespeare's time - I'm beginning to think we still have lots of differences as we communicate - how much is tomorrow, Election day, based in how we understand and interpret what the Candidates say - and yet, we really do not want a homogenized society or language. A conundrum...

Well, only 24 more Sonnets AND 24 more days till the first of December - Wow - that is all the time we have, 24 days to make things for the holidays - after the first of December there are traditional celebrations starting with the 4th the feast of St. Barbara - the 6th the feast of St. Nicholas - the 7th it is 75 years since Pearl Harbor, golly that long ago, I guess most of the population was not alive in 1941 to hear FDR on the radio say, the day would go down in infamy - December 8 feast of the Immaculate Conception - the 11th starts Shevat - 12th feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe - 14th feast of St. Lucia - 18th Rose Sunday - 24th both Hanukkah starts and Christmas Eve - Christmas on the 25th and the start of Kawanzaa - the 26th the feast of St. Stephens and Boxing day - the 28th the feast of the Holy Innocents.   

For a dark month on this side of the equator it sure is a month filled with celebrations and what a coup - we can finish out the year saying we read all 154 of Shakespeare's Sonnets - and they were NOT love poems, the word that is often used to describe them.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXI

Thou art as tyrannous, so as thou art, As those whose beauties proudly make them cruel; For well thou know'st to my dear doting heart Thou art the fairest and most precious jewel. Yet, in good faith, some say that thee behold Thy face hath not the power to make love groan: To say they err, I dare not be so bold, Although I swear it to myself alone. And, to be sure that is not false I swear, A thousand groans, but thinking on thy face, One on another's neck, do witness bear Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place. In nothing art thou black save in thy deeds, And thence this slander, as I think, proceeds

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 131
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaLOyq2N0PY

[bellamarie]

Barb,  I have to say I have occupied yesterday and today to prayer over this election.  Yesterday I spent doing progress reports for my CCD students, lesson planning and preparing for showing a video in class tomorrow on the "Safety of Touching."  This is new in our Diocese this year mandatory to bring awareness to students, parents, faculty and anyone who is in contact at any capacity in the Catholic school and church activities invloving children/ teens.  It is under an insurance program Virtus.  It will be ongoing in order for the Diocese to be insured.  Then I prepared for my Biblle Study for today.  Today I got up, went to Bible Study, voted, went to purchase items to prepare me to begin writing my novel, and also put together a three ring binder of all my past years of Bible Study material.  I have not turned the tv on all day, no radio or social media on the computer.  I am very anxious and worried where this election will take us in not just the next four years, but into the future with the soon to be Supreme Court appointees.  As a Christian I place all my faith in God, and know come tomorrow morning it will either be over or contested depending on today's outcome.  But the ads and phone calls will finally end.

I don't celebrate all the days ahead you speak of but I am considering decorating for Christmas in the next week since it takes me almost an entire week to complete the inside.  I love having it all done so on Thanksgiving we take family photos to use for ordering our Christmas cards.

Now, back to Shakespeare.... I may find myself groaning after reading this.  What on earth is he rambling on about?  I don't see it flattering or playful how he is referring to people finding her looks and actions as being ugly.  Men in all the arts have always used women in objectifying ways throughout all of history. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Voted today as well - ugh - I did not even take a sticker - I have never been less proud of voting - a nightmare - and like you - who cares - it will be what it is - I noticed a quiet intensity at the voting station where there were 16 machines all full - no one left smiling or joking with the poll workers who we all know - also noticed everyone was taking a long time which said that no one voted a straight ticket - we had only 1 amendment so that plus a straight ticket would have been two turns of the wheel and out the door - those outside the school waiting for their ride or a child after voting all just shook their heads - the chatter was mostly about picking up a bottle of wine or a six pack and watching a movie.

Yes, Shakespeare is at it again isn't he - at minimum bantering again - the only truth that he does say is...
Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place.
In nothing art thou black save in thy deeds,

Reminds me, I may be repeating myself but the music is in my head - the old mountain words we sang in Kentucky.

Black Black Black
is the color of my true love's hair, 
Her cheeks are like some rosey fair.
with the prettiest face and the restest hands 
I love the ground whereon she stands.

I love my love as well she knows
I love the ground on where she goes
If I know more on earth shall see
I won't serve yee as you serve me

I go to Troublesome for to mourn and weep
but satisfied I never can be
I'll write you a letter in a few short lines
I'll suffer death ten thousand times

Pleasures invade my eyes and ears
and all my senses feasted here
I'll surely per-ish by your charms
Un-less you save me in your arms.

I shall count my life begun,
when he and I shall be as one.
I love my love and well he knows
I love the ground whereon he goes.

Love that mournful sounding song - Some of the same pleading we heard from Shakespeare in other Sonnets are in this song as well as, what should be love and happiness is laced with mournful thoughts - "suffer death ten thousand times" goodness - so I can see clearer how Shakespeare included some of this with none of his sonnets totally positive but rather, as if throwing salt over your shoulder to not let the evil eye know that you say anything wonderful or his love will be struck down with something - in those days probably the Black Death. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXII

Thine eyes I love, and they, as pitying me, Knowing thy heart torments me with disdain, Have put on black and loving mourners be, Looking with pretty ruth upon my pain. And truly not the morning sun of heaven Better becomes the grey cheeks of the east, Nor that full star that ushers in the even, Doth half that glory to the sober west, As those two mourning eyes become thy face: O, let it then as well beseem thy heart To mourn for me, since mourning doth thee grace, And suit thy pity like in every part. Then will I swear beauty herself is black And all they foul that thy complexion lack.

Shakespeare Sonnet 132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uJ1L8xeZUk

[PatH]

Barb, you really got to me with that ballad, which I've always loved. Now it's rolling around in my brain too.  I tried to find a good youtube version, and most of them fancy it up, which is wrong.  Here's a version by Susan Reed which keeps the simple purity of the tune, but is too slow for my taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scnfjo9MPLQ

[BarbStAubrey]

Pat this is what I was used to hearing in Kentucky - Jean Ritchie is well loved and well known - I used her book on playing the Dulcimer to learn and had the good fortune to hear her play over in Barea - if you notice her voice when it hits the high notes sounds almost forced - that is typical of the singers of these old old ballads that go back way before Shakespeare - more like the 12th through to the 14th century.

When those who love the music but are not from the mountains and hollows of Appalachia attempt to sing these ballads they use their best voice and miss the technique of forcing the high notes - most think that is a sign you are singing in too high register therefore you must be straining your voice rather than understanding it is a admired technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLE_AnTMUMI

Hitting those higher notes with a forced voice is so admired that the rest of the melody is almost rushed over as secondary.

Many of these old ballads were collected without music by Francis James Child in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales during the late nineteenth century - I'm pleased to say I do own all 5 volumes and what is fascinating is to see the various versions of the same ballad - some, it is only a phrase change and others they appear as almost a different ballad. Without collecting the tunes, as many of the ballads went out of favor and 100 years later were resurrected or those that came to our mountains they had new tunes composed if possible based on the memory of the elders -

John Jacob Niles was famous for doing that - his versions were lush because he was also best known for his high forced singing voice and for playing the 8 string dulcimer which is a very unusual version of the mountain dulcimer. The tune most folks sing to the words of Black is the Color of my True Love's Hair is a version John Jacob Niles wrote which is a bit slower and more familiar, sung by many folks singers in the 60s and 70s. Susan Reed is not only singing slower but she is singing the John Jacob Niles tune which we are more familiar than the tune that is close but different sung by Jean Ritchie. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh yes - need to share this line confused me and confused me - "Looking with pretty ruth upon my pain." turns out "Ruth" means Pity.

And using the word "pretty" before Ruth/Pity I smiled - so typical of the south were pretty is used so often - meaning, more than normal - a child's face is "pretty" a splinter is "pretty" deep - the dog is letting out a "pretty" howl - a "pretty" rain is falling - on and on it goes. Never realized but now I can see - using pretty as we do goes back to the predominant ethnic roots of the South whose heritage is mostly Scot, Irish, English, along with Cherokee, Creek and Black Folks that did not come from the plantations but came into the mountains with some of the English who owned slaves. The Irish were too poor and the Scots were too tight is the fun sayings about those who in the seventeenth century populated the Appalachians. 

The "morning sun of heaven" - called "The Host of Heaven" referred to in the bible include; the "seven stars" and "Pleiades," "Orion," "Arcturus," the "Great Bear", "the crooked serpent," Draco, the Dioscuri, or Gemini, "Castor and Pollux".

Orion is near the place in the sky of the summer solstice and is hidden behind the blue glow of the sky during the summer. Orion is most visible in the wintertime, when the Sun is near the opposite solstice.

He includes "east" and "west" in the Sonnet which could be referring to the morning star - not a star at all but the planet Venus that for ages was thought to be two separate stars since it was noted in both the eastern sky in the morning and western sky in the evening.

The Morning Star, when it appears in the east during sunrise and the latter when it appears in the west during sunset has figured prominently in the mythologies of many cultures.
            
In ancient Sumerian mythology, it was named Inanna (Babylonian Ishtar), the name given to the goddess of love and personification of womanhood.

The Ancient Egyptians believed Venus to be two separate bodies and knew the morning star as Tioumoutiri and the evening star as Ouaiti.

The Ancient Greeks believing Venus was two stars called the morning star Phosphoros (or Eosphoros) the “Bringer of Light” (or “Bringer of Dawn”) and the evening star Hesperos (“star of the evening”).

By Hellenistic times, they had realized the two were the same planet, which they named after their goddess of love, Aphrodite. The Phoenicians, named it Astarte, after their own goddess of fertility.

The Romans, who derived much of their religious pantheon from the Greek tradition and near Eastern tradition, maintained this trend by naming the planet Venus after their goddess of love.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXIII

Beshrew that heart that makes my heart to groan For that deep wound it gives my friend and me! Is't not enough to torture me alone, But slave to slavery my sweet'st friend must be? Me from myself thy cruel eye hath taken, And my next self thou harder hast engross'd: Of him, myself, and thee, I am forsaken; A torment thrice threefold thus to be cross'd. Prison my heart in thy steel bosom's ward, But then my friend's heart let my poor heart bail; Whoe'er keeps me, let my heart be his guard; Thou canst not then use rigor in my gaol: And yet thou wilt; for I, being pent in thee, Perforce am thine, and all that is in me.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdnj5qyibJw

[bellamarie]

Ugh....  I think I have election fatigue, and these sonnets are of no help.

Sonnet 133

Whoe'er keeps me, let my heart be his guard

He sounds like he is saying, "Eenie, meenie, minie mo,  to which of you will I go?"

I may need another day or so to get back into the right frame of mind.  I am happy with the results of this election, but I am not happy with the protestors and the desecrating of the burning of our flag, and destroying our veteran's memorial/burial place.     

[BarbStAubrey]

A torment thrice threefold thus to be cross'd.
Prison my heart in thy steel bosom's ward,

Bellamarie sounds like your election woe - Trump Hillary and the electorate could be the three that are crossing and criss crossing and they have created a prison for your heart as they are still pulling against each other like a steel bosom's ward - will it ever end - maybe the holiday's will help settle things down.

Not sure of the story on this Sonnet - sounds like he and his young lover have a third interloper who may be the lady with the two mourning eyes

[bellamarie]

There is no prison for my heart, I am at peace with my decision and the decision of the American people.  The fatigue I'm feeling is staying up way too late, 4:00 a.m. waiting for it to be called, and then having a nice glass of Reunite' wine 🍷with cheese & crackers.  🧀🍞.  I don't think I have stayed up that late since I was a teen, not to mention I needed another round of antibiotics trying to rid myself of what has taken prisoner of my voice.  😷

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes, I too waited - interesting - no comment from Hillary till the next day - today has been madness as so many including two of my grands are hysterical predicting the end to this or that and one suggesting the electorate collage does not vote till December something or other - sheesh - I like you have always been a Dem - I knew when I voted for a third party I was helping Trump but I looked into him and his life history from childhood on and decided he was a grown up version of what military school boys were like back in the 50s which is exactly what he was for 7 years and he had a degree in economics from the UofPa - so he could not be that stupid and yes he talked like they did in military school but look at his family - he could not have those kind of kids if he was that awful - no one was getting pregnant at 16 - so like you I was at peace - if we lived through GW Bush we can live through another Pub plus Bill sold us down the river more than any of them - so let's not turn this into a political discussion but I think we both needed to vent.

I wonder if the lady in yesterdays Sonnet with the morning eyes is the lady they talk about in so many web sites when they talk about the Sonnets - they all refer to her as the Lady with Dark eyes - if so I did not realize she would be a third member of whatever it is he has going.

I wonder if anyone took the Sonnets one by one and found if they were part of the story line for one of his plays - I cannot believe it is the 10th of November all ready - there is only 3 weeks today till the last Sonnet - Wow I am impressed - we really did this - 14 days till Thanksgiving and 21 days till the first day of December - I need to put on some Advent music - I have about 3 Cds of Advent music - I know it is early but I am doing what I can to shake all the political stuff out of my head - I swear this time it is embedded in my body. It is as if I need to stand in the shower for hours and it still would not wash off completely.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXIV

So, now I have confess'd that he is thine, And I myself am mortgaged to thy will, Myself I'll forfeit, so that other mine Thou wilt restore, to be my comfort still: But thou wilt not, nor he will not be free, For thou art covetous and he is kind; He learn'd but surety-like to write for me Under that bond that him as fast doth bind. The statute of thy beauty thou wilt take, Thou usurer, that put'st forth all to use, And sue a friend came debtor for my sake; So him I lose through my unkind abuse. Him have I lost; thou hast both him and me: He pays the whole, and yet am I not free.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycxILA0Cxds

[BarbStAubrey]

Lordy he has himself in a mess and dragged a youth and his mistress into it and blames the mistress since he believes she was after the youth all along and now he thinks he lost both - oy - talk about a soap opera - plus frankly it is too sleazy for me - onward - next Sonnet - this story is not what I need to be reading this time of the year or for that matter probably ever...

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXV

Whoever hath her wish, thou hast thy Will, And Will to boot, and Will in overplus; More than enough am I that vex thee still, To thy sweet will making addition thus. Wilt thou, whose will is large and spacious, Not once vouchsafe to hide my will in thine? Shall will in others seem right gracious, And in my will no fair acceptance shine? The sea all water, yet receives rain still And in abundance addeth to his store; So thou, being rich in Will, add to thy Will One will of mine, to make thy large Will more. Let no unkind no fair beseechers kill; Think all but one, and me in that one Will.

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS6vWqJHXmo

[BarbStAubrey]

hahaha If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, how many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick?

[BarbStAubrey]

Ok cannot post the next Sonnet with a few rhetorical finds included in this one repeating not only the word Will but also many words beginning with the letter W

There is Ambiguity when the presence of two or more possible meanings in any one word or passage and if the ambiguity is risqué than it is called a Double Entendre

We also have Anaphora - the repetition of a word or phrase at the beginning of several successive clauses, paragraphs or verses.

Polypteton is the repetition of the same word with different grammatical functions or forms.

Autolog in a sentence the same word appears countable times. Will appears 14 times in this Sonnet.

Anaphora a repetition of a word or phrase in successive clauses or sentences

Love this one - a Homonym A word having the same pronunciation as another, but differing from it in origin and meaning.

What fun he must have had writing the puns in this Sonnet.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXVI

If thy soul cheque thee that I come so near, Swear to thy blind soul that I was thy 'Will,' And will, thy soul knows, is admitted there; Thus far for love my love-suit, sweet, fulfil. 'Will' will fulfil the treasure of thy love, Ay, fill it full with wills, and my will one. In things of great receipt with ease we prove Among a number one is reckon'd none: Then in the number let me pass untold, Though in thy stores' account I one must be; For nothing hold me, so it please thee hold That nothing me, a something sweet to thee: Make but my name thy love, and love that still, And then thou lovest me, for my name is 'Will.'

William Shakespeare's Sonnet 136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz9cf9LPou0

[BarbStAubrey]

Well instead of Will - this short tale is a bit raunchy but then so are some of his plays - and what I realize is Donne wrote around the same time and became a priest with a group of raunchy poems to his credit - I wonder if our twenty-first sensibilities are more refined - I'm remembering as a child during parties and gatherings there was more raunchy talk than any I hear today - maybe because folks lived closer to the earth and animals. Well we sure get a glimpse into the reading for the early seventeenth century. 

Like this that is actually in honor of Leonard Cohen but it could be showing us that we have happened onto a crack that brings light to the popular thinking of the seventeenth century.

“Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in. “

Leonard Cohen

Thank you all, for keeping my blog alive while I am dying a thousand deaths everyday. My heart has a heaviness that darkens all I see and feel. I keep looking for that “crack” to let the light in.

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXVII

Thou blind fool, Love, what dost thou to mine eyes, That they behold, and see not what they see? They know what beauty is, see where it lies, Yet what the best is take the worst to be. If eyes corrupt by over-partial looks Be anchor'd in the bay where all men ride, Why of eyes' falsehood hast thou forged hooks, Whereto the judgment of my heart is tied? Why should my heart think that a several plot Which my heart knows the wide world's common place? Or mine eyes seeing this, say this is not, To put fair truth upon so foul a face? In things right true my heart and eyes have erred, And to this false plague are they now transferr'd.

Shakespeare Sonnet 137
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQWvMChOxo

[bellamarie]

Barb,  I am so sorry I feel like I have deserted you.  I did have election fatigue, but I have also had this horrible annoying infection that has kidnapped my voice.  It comes and goes, and so I have tried to rest it as much as possible.  My hubby and I  got so busy these past few days I didn't have time to blink.  Glad I finally got a chance to check in on Shakespeare.

Sonnets 134 - 137 

Shakespeare in these sonnets is really seeming desperate and a bit vulgar.  I feel as if he is in a manic state, ranting on and on about the mistress being a prostitute, yet he still wants her, and he still wants "Will" his young desired boy, whom this mistress has.  Has he finally put a name to his young boy he has been obsessed with?  He seems to be spinning out of control, feeling he has lost both the mistress, and the young boy, and now is just begging for one or the other.  Gosh why do I get a weird feeling that by him using two "Wills" he is seeing himself as the young boy, and the older man in these sonnets?  I have always felt these sonnets have been a written interpretation of his fantasies, not real true life.  In these past sonnets I think I am seeing the "mistress" as NOT his wife, but as a mistress in all sense of the carnal meaning.


I have been reading online about how the democrats are pressuring their state electorates to go against the voters and cast their state's electoral votes on December 19th for Hillary.  Trump clearly won this election.  Depending on which site, or newspaper etc., you read he even won the popular vote with 6.9 million to her 6.2.  Some news media refused to add in Michigan and Arizona for him so it will look differently.  I voted for him largely because I agree with his policies and he is Pro Life.  His antics, and other character flaws I did overlook because, if we wanted to compare the two on character and past failures and successes, he far out beats her in my humble opinion.  I truly do feel I have seen a transfiguration in this man throughout the past three months.  He has actually apologized for his inappropriate words and actions.  I have never heard Hillary once apologize for a single thing that she has done wrong.  I just pray now that this country can begin healing and close the divisive gap we have amongst us.  This is the best nation in all the world and we all need to recognize overwhelmingly will of the people, and help the newly Elect President Trump.  I can't say I was always a Democrat or Republican, but I can say I have always been an Independent.  If any state goes against the votes and will of their spoken voters and change their state's electoral votes keeping Trump from being president I do fear a civil uprising.  The protesters at this time are just sore losers not willing to accept the election results.  If it were to change, the uprising would have validity because it would be going against the will of the election/people.  I don't see that happening, but in today's politics, anything is possible.

Here is the site that explains the electorates and their responsibilities: 
https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/roles.html

[BarbStAubrey]

Yes Bellamarie, interesting turn of events - I ended up voting for Jill - not because I thought she was great or would ever be a serious contender but because I was not comfortable with either candidate - in order to make that choice I knew it was helping Trump so looked into his life and learned that he has a degree in Economics from the UofPa and a lot more about his background I was OK - frankly I never took all that ranting seriously - seeing it all as theater to get attention which gave him free press. It seems those who had wrapped themselves in Hillary I think want to take anything he said and blow it up - but it unfortunately has given permission to some who still had problems respecting others the feeling now they can do and say as they did 40 and 50 years ago - so we start all over only with probably less than a quarter of the population - the rest got it back at least 20 years ago. 

Yep I had looked into the electoral collage and learned about half the states have laws that will not allow this to happen the other half are a free for all with NY state being one of them - Texas as well but she never had a chance in this state.  Reading and hearing more about the shadow government that is more than just Wall Street and evidently includes Soros, who is not someone to pooh pooh, which I did for years - I did not know Chelsea is married to the nephew of Soros - it appears to me that Soros is behind all this - I think they are scared because they do not have a hold on Trump - who has to figure out how to appease so he can get things done and cannot announce for attention that he is draining the swamp - it will be an interesting next 4 years.

I was also surprised to learn his slogan Make America Great was the title of one of his books written several years ago and the 10 point plan that has been in several newspapers mostly saying, it is the plan to support the Black Community is the titles of 10 chapters in that book. Of course ordered a used copy.

So interesting times ahead...

I like that you saw Shakespeare's Sonnets as his fantasies and thought of Will being himself as a young boy - hmm need to read some of those earlier Sonnets with that thought in mind.

Hope your infection clears up - I bet you have meds and it will take a few days - my daughter used to get bladder infections - not fun... In fact when she moved to SC before they later moved to NC - Gary and a friend drove the truck and I accompanied her with the two boys, Ty the oldest was only 7 or 8 and Cade was 4 anyhow she ended up getting an infection on the road and we had to stop at a Doctor in either Mississippi or maybe it was still only Louisiana - a female doctor that prescribed the antibiotics knowing she could not follow up. Be well... 

[bellamarie]

Barb, I have to giggle a bit seeing you ordered a used copy of Trump's Make America Great Again book.  Today I spent part of my day cleaning my basement/family room preparing for Thanksgiving with the family.  I was arranging and sorting through books on my book shelves and came across both Bill and Hillary's books I had read years ago.  I actually contemplated throwing them in the trash, which I can honestly say I have never done to any book to my knowledge except for Sarah Palin's book, I never did finish reading.  In hindsight, I decided to keep the books for the sake of history.  I also have many Kennedy books as well, he and his family will remain my all time favorite, who could ever forget Camelot!  I do agree that looking at the well behaved, successful lives of Trump's children it says much about the man he is.  I've listened to his daughter Ivanka and sons Eric and Donald talk about how he made them start at the bottom and work their way up so they would appreciate what everyone on the bottom feels like.  They seem very unspoiled, loving, caring and hard workers, not to mention loyal.  Hmmm....could we have another Camelot in the White House?  We shall wait and see..... 

Yes, I am into my second prescription of antibiotics and still the voice is froggy.  I am trying hard to be patient.  UTIs are the worst,  I have had three in my lifetime and they need immediate antibiotics, I don't think any doctor would deny anyone meds to treat one.   

I don't want to rush the days away, but I am ready to be done with Shakespeare.  These sonnets are not what I would consider love letters what so ever.  He either is wrapped up in idolizing this young boy, or criticizing the mistress for taking him away from him, and not being with him.  It really gives me no desire to purge into his plays anytime too soon.  Not wanting to sound completely unfair or negative, there were a few lines in a few sonnets that I did really like, but mostly, I find him a bit too obsessive, whiny, and very depressing. 

[BarbStAubrey]

We shall see what we shall see with Trump and  Shakespeare - Like you, I did have different expectations for Shakespeare.

I think my problem was I have read and seen a few of his plays and they took me by storm so these Sonnets are not at all what I expected - I must say though I am glad for the knowledge and glad also that we did one a day - I think the slow read allowed us to see what is really there instead of focusing on the few that are repeated over and over as examples of his wonderful writing.

As to Trump, not sure what to expect but looking forward to a clash between him and the traditional politician as well as him and the wall street mavens - again expectations so we shall see...

Frankly I never liked the Clintons even before the scandal - they came across to me like what we call Trailer Park Trash - no class - remember the camera catching them on the way to his inauguration with Bill out by the car yelling through the open door at her to hurry up they were going to be late - not helping her with Chelsea but  yelling out loud - trashy - especially, remembering Jimmy Carter, the gentleman whose young daughter was lovingly looked upon as much of a tomboy and pain in the neck as she was - but no low life public scolding nor did he ever reduce either of them by his yelling at his wife.   

[bellamarie]

Wow, Barb I had not known that about Bill yelling at Hillary, but it does not surprise me in the least.  They are not very well talked of or liked by those who knew them as they were up and coming, nor do you hear much praise and positive from those who has served with them throughout their years in the White House or after.  I was not the political junkie back then, as I am now, so my opinion changed less and less, as my knowledge grew more and more.  The just released book by their secret service man does not hold either of them, her especially in a kind light what so ever.  Trailer trash would probably be his description of them as well. 

I too am glad we read Shakespeare once a day.  Now at least I feel I know his style, and even a bit of the man he was.  I will say in the best of my manner, I think he was a very self indulgent person and writing poems, sonnets and plays allowed him to express his alter ego, and deal with his demons through his writings. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Shakespeare Sonnet CXXXVIII

When my love swears that she is made of truth I do believe her, though I know she lies, That she might think me some untutor'd youth, Unlearned in the world's false subtleties. Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young, Although she knows my days are past the best, Simply I credit her false speaking tongue: On both sides thus is simple truth suppress'd. But wherefore says she not she is unjust? And wherefore say not I that I am old? O, love's best habit is in seeming trust, And age in love loves not to have years told:    Therefore I lie with her and she with me,    And in our faults by lies we flatter'd be.

William Shakespeare Sonnet 138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYFymOqLjXc

[BarbStAubrey]

Well he accepts her as is, even if she does lie - wonder if she really lies or is simply saying unflattering things - but that is only conjecture from me - but to top it off they are both guilty of infidelity - so mutual deception it is - hmm sounds like he needs a good confession - maybe that is his problem - with Catholics persecuted to death there is no readily available confessional nor Sunday Mass or guidance and so, he is slipping over the abyss - plus he has been too long in London with his wife and children in Stratford upon Avon.   

[BarbStAubrey]

Here we go again, near the end of the page -

We saw the last embers of daylight die And in the trembling blue-green of the sky A moon, worn as if it had been a shell Washed by time’s waters as they rose and fell About the stars and broke in days and years Yeats

[BarbStAubrey]

They laugh at me because I’m different;
I laugh at them because they are all the same