Classics Book Club, The

[BarbStAubrey]

Welcome to

We have a winner!  Our first ever read in the Classics Book Club   to begin on February 15,  with the initial segment, schedule still to be decided but we'll break it up into parts,   of Homer's Odyssey!

If you have been casting about for a great book to lose yourself in this winter, you've come to the right place! Help us decide on a schedule, how far DO we want to go that first week? How to divide this? Whose translation do you have?

**NB: There are probably 50+ famous translations of the Odyssey. If you find the translation you have does not speak to you or does not convey to you what's happening, this book is too fabulous to waste on an old outdated translation: try a new one.

Everyone is welcome!  

  

Discussion Leaders:  Joan K & ginny  

Welcome to the circle that includes several of us newbies sandyrose...

[roshanarose]

babi (and others) - Here is a link about Zenobia and Palmyra you may find interesting.

www.atlastours.net/syria/palmyra.html

[bookad]

Sandyrose--good to have you in the  back with me....fascinating to see all the excitement around here....as you have seen I'm having a struggle regarding voting ...I always have a rapport with animal books, so the fables, or  The Golden Ass seem to feel a bit of comfort...and the Meditations seem more familiar English...hoping the vote will allow for a download from the Gutenberg site...

all the going ons feel something akin to being in grade one where the readers (books) are just put in front of the students holding a new world within their covers (am talking about the grade one of the 1950's)

[ginny]

Sandyrose!!!! Welcome, welcome, WELCOME!!  

As you can see, this is a great group!

The back row looks nicely populated, I myself like to sit on the back left seat. I don't know why that is, so shove down one place, All. hahahaa

Thank you Roshannarose for the Zenobia information, most interesting!

Babi, there were a lot of Roman women and women of the time of the Romans, who have passed into history, just for starters, Cornelia,  (she of "these are my jewels"), Turia,  Veturia, Pomponia, Octavia, Agrippina,  Livia, and Fulvia, just to name a few off the top of my head. Or course there's Boudicca as well, who, tho not Roman is certainly remembered for her hatred of them.

I loved this: fascinating to see all the excitement around here....

Me,  too, how well that's captured it, bookad! And this:

(books) are just put in front of the students holding a new world within their covers

That's exactly how I feel, too, how well you express things.

At the moment,  the voting is super exciting! There is one front runner and 5, count em, 5 tied for 2nd place! Golly, it's impossible to tell what will win. Will there be a late surge? Will the front runner hold on? Can't say WHAT they are, as that would sort of mess up the integrity of the thing, but boy it's a real horse race!

I'm glad I voted early as now we can watch it unfold.

Welcome, ALL!!! We can all sit in the back. hahahaha

[rosemarykaye]

Ginny, that so reminds me of my senior school Latin lessons - our teacher was really old school and absolutely terrifying.  She was infuriated when we turned up age 12 not knowing the parts of speech or what she meant by conjugating and declining - we had not been taught English like that (I wish we had), it was all airy-fairy "how do you feel about this?" etc.  Miss Edmunds' Latin lessons were the worst part of our week - she was, as I see in retrospect, a very well educated woman who had a great passion for the Classics, but at the time we were so scared that we regularly begged our mothers for sick notes on Latin days.

When she retired I was in 5th year - the class was taken over by a much milder-mannered woman, who couldn't understand why we were too scared to open our mouths.  We did, however, get over it and 4 of us went on to take A-level Latin.  I now appreciate that Miss Edmunds did teach me a lot, but what I remember most is sitting in those classes wishing the ground would swallow me up.  My friend and I didn't sit at the back because she was more likely to pick on you there than anywhere else - and if you got it wrong, blackboard erasers, books, anything would come flying your way - oh yes, this was years before PC was even heard of! 

Incidentally, has anyone seen the Simpsons episode when the school is divided into two -  girls' and boys' sections?  The girls' maths lesson is one of the funniest things I've seen for years - poor Lisa wanting to learn algebra, and the very right-on teacher asking them to wave their arms to show how the number seven made them feel     My school was NOT like that!

R

[Babi]

 Thanks for that link, Roshana. A pity Zenobia let her ambition
lead her into conquests. She might have known that once Rome's
immediate problems were resolved, they would be coming to take
back their territory. She grabbed more than she could keep.

 GINNY, my remark was influenced by recent readings from the ancient
Greek and Roman historians. The was virtually no mention of women
in those excerpts. Do we actually know much about Cornelia, for
examble, other than that she was Caesar's wife and warned him of
danger? I have heard of Agrippina, Livia and Octabia, but know very
little about them. Boudicca, of course. There does seem to be more
written about her, tho' it's hard to say how accurate the stories
are.
 

"..the very right-on teacher asking them to wave their arms to show how the number seven made them feel."

  How the number made them feel?  I don't watch the Simpson's
ROSEMARY, so please tell me there aren't actually schools like that.
Fiction a la Simpson, right?   

[Dana]

Maybe Ginny was meaning Cornelia mother of the Gracchi, an idealized version of a truely noble woman who seems to have suffered great losses including the murder of both her sons whom she obviously brought up to believe in the right democratic ideals. (!)  It's just a pity that our female forebearers, burdened down by endless childbearing were usually only able to contribute in a behind the scenes kind of way and never got immortalized by being written about, as they surely deserve.

[JoanK]

I'm back online, after being off forever! It's sooooo good! I don't realize how much these discussions mean, til I don't have them.

ROSEMARY: you've added a case to my theory that the main result of literature classes in the States is to make the students feel they are too stupid to read literature. It sounds like the Latin class you took had the same result.

IT'S NOT TRUE! (here I go on my hobby horse again). Those books are OURS! YOURS! MINE! We can do anything we want to with them!!

If we can't understand something, it's not because we're stupid -- it's because 2000 years of history and culture and different ideas and language are standing betweeen us and the person on the other end who is trying to tell us something. And we can decide whether it's worth finding our way through, or asking guides who have been there.

I know I need all the help I can get! A few of us have been here before, and can help us, most of us will bumble along together. As long as we stick together, we're bound to have fun, and learn a lot.

[ginny]

What INTERESTING conversations here, love it, and a front runner has emerged from the 5 way tie for 2nd while the original front runner is holding on, this is becoming quite interesting! Very much like a horse race.

Rosemarykaye, our teacher was really old school and absolutely terrifying. What a hoot! I can sing that song, nothing beats those old school Latin teachers.  I think I've had some of the best and I know I've had some of the worst. hahahaa One year in high school our beloved Latin teacher, Miss Haas, had to retire mid year and we got this Harpy who moved me immediately to the front (I was quiet and shy) and stood over me and screamed at me, I can hear her to this day: NON AUDIO!! NON AUDIO!!  (I can't HEEAR you!)  in kind of a sing song drill sergeant mode. Wonder what the poor thing was thinking? At any rate she made our lives miserable.  Your post certainly brought back memories, I've just erased a paragraph of them. hahaha

Babi, you're possibly  thinking of Calpurnia who warned Caesar.  Of Cornelia (she of "these are my jewels,") there seems, for the times, to be a good bit known (let's put it this way: more than will be known of me in 2000 years, hahaa). The writings of the times,  however, as  you and Dana have said, do concentrate on the male figures, and the references to women seem often to be  scattered, and not all in one place; usually in a piece about men.

I am sure between all of us, hopefully somebody here will have a annotated text or some commentary, and that between all of us we can figure whatever we choose out. I'm proud of us for trying, it's an exciting undertaking, somewhat akin to setting off into the Underworld, what strange and wonderful things will we see?

[roshanarose]

babi - What sort of leader would Zenobia have been without ambition in that world?

[Babi]

 Oops! Quite right, GINNY. I was confusing Calpurnia and Cornelia. I'm expecting this
foray into the classics to refresh my memory on a lot of things.
  My worst teacher was an old, retired teacher who was drafted back into teaching when
WWII pulled so many teachers away. We were a group of 8-9 year olds and she expected us
to all sit still. She couldn't stand the creaking of the chairs and would yell at the
offending culprit...usually me.  She also instituted a little daily session of 'let's
all tell on each other', which had the kids backstabbing their playmates in order to
appease the dragon. Really, a horror.

 ROSHANA, I can't help wishing Zenobia had been a bit more modest in her ambitions. She
might have preserved all that she had built, instead of seeing it destroyed.  She was an
exceptional woman who created a marvelous world about her, but she obviously badly overestimated her military strength.

[straudetwo]

Ginny,  Wonderful nominations all.  I haven't had time to post but checked regularly and voted last night.  With some trepidation - because the Survey Monkey refused to cooperate on at least two previous occasions, and was not responsive to JoanP link. 

I was so see Cicero and De senectute added.  That was the spark, years ag, wasn't it?

[rosemarykaye]

Babi - yes, it was fiction a la Simpsons, as you say - but we have Waldorf schools in this country which are a bit like that.  I don't know if you have them in the US - they are part of the Rudolph Steiner Foundation.  Here in Aberdeen we have at least three "Camphill" communities run on the R Steiner principles, one is a community for adults with learning difficulties, who live there alongside helpers; it's a in a beautiful setting on Deeside, and they run a farm, a cafe, a gift shop, a bakery, toy shop, etc.  Another is a school for severely disabled children, and another is a sort of retirement community. 

The Waldorf school is connected to all of this, but is for "normal" children; the teaching is along Steiner lines, with a lot of "touchy feely" stuff and something called "Eurythmy".  The school does do the standard exam courses, but the children have to leave at 16 and go to another school for 6th year - I believe this has caused problems in the past as they found it hard to fit in at the local academy, but now I think many of them go instead to the International School (which is largely American) and that works better.  Some families absolutely love the Waldorf school - it is a real way of life, as the parents are expected to become involved in fund raising, etc - it's quite alternative, so it tends to attract that kind of person.  In his Scotland Street books, Alexander McCall Smith pokes fun at the Edinburgh Waldorf school that poor Bertie is forced to attend when he really wants to go to Watsons (one of the oldest independent schools in Edinburgh - many people are "Old Watsonians") and play rubgy.  His classmates have names like Tofu and Hiawatha, and although these are of  course exaggerations, they do give you a good idea of what the schools are like  .

Rosemary

[ginny]

Welcome, welcome, Traude!~ We are so glad to see you here! What a memory you have, and I believe you are right!

Welcome!

Babi, another bad one.  I think if we all put here our worst memories of bad teachers (being the age we are) people would be shocked. Today I would like to say there are more safeguards but I wonder, I really do.

RosemaryKaye, thank you for that explanation of The Waldorf Schools. I occasionally come across that term in reading and had no earthly idea what was meant.

The voting continues apace and is taking some interesting turns, a newcomer is closing fast but the lead horse has just gotten some support, it's truly fascinating. Can't say what they are, it would twist the deal.  3 more days, a great vote and representation!~

Everyone is welcome, join right in!

[Babi]

I don't doubt we have some schools like that here, too, ROSEMARY.
It's been so long since I had a child or young relative in school
that I've pretty well lost touch. I got a smile from your remark
about the kind of people attracted to 'alternative' whatever. I
know what you mean, and I must confess that I've found a few ideas
in 'alternative medicine' that were quite helpful.

[JudeS]

Rosemarykay
Yes-we have Waldorf schools here too. Quite expensive .
My niece went to the NYC Waldorf School from First Grade to end of High School.  It seems that you never have to learn things that don't interest you in that school..  It takes the utopian idea that a child knows best what is good for them to its zenith.
My niece went to acting school after High School and now is working as a waitress. Luckily she is beautiful and  sometimes gets short modelling jobs.

Somehow with all the horrible teachers we experienced in the public schools we did learn that you have to follow the rules, learn things that seem at first impossibly difficult and that there are subjects that seem hopeless at first and as you conquer them you find yourself interested and enriched.
But then again -to each his own.

[rosemarykaye]

I agree, each to his own - but my elder daughter has said more than once that she's very glad we didn't send her there!  There are quite a few Waldorf children in one of her choirs and quite honestly the behaviour of the little boys is appalling.  The girls seem more subdued, but that is probably just coincidence - in McCall Smith's books, Bertie's classmate Olive is by far the worst offender, a real tyrant of the playground who even manages to convince poor Bertie that in the course of a game of doctors and nurses he has "tested positive for leprosy".

Babi - I think alternative medicine is different.  For one thing, it is between you and the practitioner, and doesn't affect other people the way those boys' behaviour does!

I forgot to say that, in the Simpsons episode I was speaking about, Lisa finally escapes over the wall into the boys' section - dressed as a boy.  The boys' school was, IMO, an equally brilliant caricature - they were all charging around the playground making anything and everything into weapons (mostly guns) or just fist fighting on the floor.

Rosemary

[Dana]

Hi JoanR,
 I am just wondering how you are getting on with daphnis and Chloe.  I'm plodding along slowly with the translation.  But I really enjoy it.  The words are so beautiful.  I don't know any german but I am wondering if it has something in common with ancient Greek as I know words are strung together to make up compound words and this happens in Greek too--at least in this book--it is the first really long piece of unmodified translation that I have done--for example, "clap of the hands,  reaching down to the feet, carry on one's back, chatter at random, with the beard just growing," are all single words made up of strings of other words, maybe its just this author that does this, or maybe all the authors make up their own words, because my text book made a great point of explaining how words are put together, as if training one to figure them out for oneself at some point,--that's a trouble with learning on your own, no one to ask.  Anyway, Daphnis and Chloe is really beautiful in Greek, like a poem in prose. And funny too, but that may not come across in translation.  I hope the translation you have is captivating.

[Babi]

 Actually, JUDE, I discovered early on...to my great benefit...
that the teachers with a reputation for being tough were usually
the best teachers. I made a point of getting them if I could.
Probably one of the smartest moves I ever made.

  Good point, ROSEMARY. I must say, however, that I have never
seen an alternative med. physician. I have a book on alternative
medicine, and have used it in matters of diet, helpful herbs,
and similar practical suggestions. I've found it most useful in
resolving some problems.

[roshanarose]

Dana - Is the Daphnis and Chloe you are translating online?  It is often the case that Greek uses compound words.  They also add  "infixes" , something I had not encountered until I learned Greek.

[ginny]

We have a winner!! The voters have spoken and our first ever selection is probably one of the greatest books ever written:

A wise choice, a great read, an inventive,  great plot with countless modern  allusions in literature, art and our world today, including but not limited to Ulysses by James Joyce, Tennyson's Ulysses (who can ever forget: Telemachus?)

This is my son, mine own Telemachus,
To whom I leave the scepter and the isle—
Well loved of me, discerning to fulfill
This labor, by slow prudence to make mild
A rugged people, and through soft degrees
Subdue them to the useful and the good.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson, "Ulysses"

And THEN  there's the Honda Odyssey, the faithful Penelope, O Brother Where Art Thou by the Coen Brothers,  Star Quest, the Odyssey, the Odyssey of Pat Tilman.....and...and... we'll find there are countless allusions to the Odyssey in your own lives, but would we have known if we had not read the original?  Talk about the Pirates of the Caribbean,  Homer rocks!

The Odyssey led the ballot the entire vote, but there were two others as close seconds  closing in when the voting ended.   Here's the final ballot: http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/classicsbookclub/ClassicsBookClubFirstVote.jpg

We had 32 votes which is spectacular for a book club and even if YOUR choice did not prevail this time, we hope you'll read with us starting on February 15.  (Who lives who does not love The Odyssey?  No matter how many times a year he reads it he'll always discover something new he did not see before). Especially in this company.

Now we have much to decide here!

First off we want as many different versions as we can get, we'll not read any one translation from the Greek, we'll each read one which we prefer.  Hopefully somebody will have an annotated version or commentary, we'll rely upon you to fill us in on the details we need to know.

Hopefully we can compare translators.  Those of you who read ancient Greek are a bonus, we may call upon you to help us in some of the translations or you may find a word which you want to bring to our attention as well.

Some of us may want to focus (this is a HUGE undertaking) on one particular theme or aspect of the book. It's a great story, just the right thing to lose yourself in this winter, and there's nothing else like it in the world.

What aspect will interest  you in addition the absorbing plot of this  fabulous story?

--The Trojan War? The background history?
--Homer himself?
--Mythology? The role of the gods in this saga of the man of constant sorrows?
--The representations in art of this saga over the last 3000 years?
--Penelope as a representative of faithfulness in marriage?


First up we need to figure out how long we want to take to discuss this book and how many pages or chapters we want to read each time. What do you think?

For my part, I'm going to order the Fagles, shown here.  I've never read it and apparently it's fabulous: Robert Fagles's translation is a jaw-droppingly beautiful rendering of Homer's Odyssey, the most accessible and enthralling epic of classical Greece. Fagles captures the rapid and direct language of the original Greek, while telling the story of Odysseus in lyrics that ring with a clear, energetic voice. The story itself has never seemed more dynamic, the action more compelling, nor the descriptions so brilliant in detail. It is often said that every age demands its own translation of the classics. Fagles's work is a triumph because he has not merely provided a contemporary version of Homer's classic poem, but has located the right language for the timeless character of this great tale. Fagles brings the Odyssey so near, one wonders if the Hollywood adaption can be far behind. This is a terrific book. (Quote from Amazon).

***I'm going to be blunt here and go out on a limb. What IF you have tried and failed, in the past, to read one of the great ancient works,  and thought it was either YOU or the ancients whom you found difficult or uninteresting?

I have the Pope/ Flaxman Odyssey here, a gorgeous leather bound gold tooled volume. My Pope here is in rhyme, English rhyme, it rhymes for heaven's sake.  . I started this morning to try to read a bit of it. It was written in the 1700's and is stilted, formal, the eye wanders, the mind wanders, despite its being one of the famous translations.

One puts it down. One KNOWS this is an incredible story, one knows it's SUCH a good read,   but one's translation is almost 300 years old itself and shows it.

If you find with whatever copy you get, whether from Gutenberg or online free and you begin to doubt your own ability, give yourself a chance? Get a more modern translation? We don't live in the 1700's. If you are an expert in the speech patterns of 1700 or prefer them, by all means enjoy. I'm addressing this to those who don't find Pope palatable.  Get a copy of  Fagles or  Lombardo. Lombardo, a distinguished scholar in his own right,  does his in modern cadences and expression, here's his bit on the Cyclops, for instance:

"Lombardo's Odyssey offers the distinctive speed, clarity, and boldness that so distinguished his 1997 Iliad. From the translation:"

"And when the wine had begun to work on his mind,

I spoke these sweet words to him:

'Cyclops

You ask me my name, my glorious name,

And I will tell it to you. Remember now,

To give me the gift just as you promised.

Noman is my name. They call me Noman-

My mother, my father, and all my friends too.'

He answered from his pitiless heart:

'Noman I will eat last after his friends.

Friends first, him last. That's my gift to you.'"

If you find your TRANSLATOR does not convey clearly to YOU what's happening you need another one, period.

I love Lombardo, I love the way he translates. I think I'll get him, too, just in case I need a translator for the translations. hahaha If you've read the Odyssey every year, try a new translator and see what it brings to your experience. I bet you'll be surprised.

Let's decide, whichever translation YOU like, how far we want to read the first week!

If you've been longing for a good book to lose yourself in, long no more, sign in and join us!

A wise choice to get our feet wet, voters, huzzah!

[Babi]

YIKES!  We start Feb. 15th?  That means I'm going to be working with
both Odyssey and Quanah Parker's "Empire of the Summer Moon".
Oh, boy.  I hope my brain cells are up to it.    

[pedln]

I hope my brain cells are up to it.

You and me, both, Babi. My first choice is tied for second, but Odyssey almost got my vote.  I'm in -- for the duration?  We'll see.  Probably more like a silent partner or quiet lurker.  Now to check out these different translations.  A freebie, probably a Gutenburg, has been, untouched, on my Kindle for quite some time.  Thanks for the input on Fagles and Lombardo, Ginny.

[BarbStAubrey]

Not my vote either but it is being read by so many now that it has become a 'must-read' by the many returning from Iraq.

Need to look first - it could be buried someplace on one of shelves - but if not I am inclined toward the Everyman publication - the translation gets high marks and not only does it fit my love of a hardback but it goes right up there with the many other Everyman publications I own.

Isn't there a section of this story where he relates his journey - that is what I would be most interested in discussing - the war - uh - and for sure not listening to yet one more 'faithful' wife who really had no choice unless she wanted to be on the garbage heap of society describe all the times the guys gave her a hard time hoping to knock her off her pedestal - then for him to come home after what 20 years and rather than falling into her arms and smothering her with 20 years of longing and love - with weak knee heartfelt admiration for her sticking by him while tumbling out his words and kisses outlining dreams for their future - oh no - first thing he does is 'SECRETLY' test her faithfulness - sheeesh...that is when I lost all respect for the guy but I'll put up with him in hopes that his long journey home is interesting with all sorts of mythical symbolism included as he describes each event ...

[Dana]

Oh great, I'm very pleased.  I shall get the Fitzgerald.  The Greek is available on the Perseus website. Can't wait, really.  Its been on my to read list for ever.

Roshanarose--the Daphnis and Chloe I am translating is not on line (tho I expect its on the Perseus site too) but is a book published by Bolchazay-Carducci edited by Byre and Cueva.  really user friendly, vocab. on facing page, exellent notes, but they don't go too far ( i hate these notes that translate the thing for you, I just like hints!!)

[ALF43]

THE ODYSSEY BY HOMER-   HOOORAH

!

Pedln and Babi- I have singed up for the Empire Moon as well.  Oh boy and my college roommate wilL be here from Feb. 14th thru March 1st.  Oh dear, so much to do, so much to read.  Isn’t this fun? 
I, for one, still plan on sitting in the back row with Sandy and Rosemary.  I have to check out the Odyssey at our library and see which translation it is.  I don’t think that I could do this with my e- reader.  I need to get up and move around and emote while reading.  Ginny’s Lombardo sounds like that would be right up my alley.  Maybe I’ll order that one.  Today is a big play off day so I am tied up for the day BUT tomorrow watch out Homer, here she comes!

[Gumtree]

YIPPEE!  YIPPEE!  At last we know the verdict. I didn't vote for it but it was my second choice so I'm truly happy with the outcome.

I just checked my shelves and found four copies - translated by -

1.Samuel Butler in prose 1900 in a Great Books edition.
2. T.E.Lawrence better known as Lawrence of Arabia in prose 1932
3. Albert Cook of Brown U in verse 1974 - this is a Norton Critical Edition and has some backgrounds and short critical pieces etc. It has very little annotation.
4. E.V Rieu in prose originally for Penguin Books 1946 but in a hardback, glossy, illustrated edition of 1980. Great colour and black and white photos of artifacts and places.

Despite having these I'm intrigued by the Fagles and Lombardo translations and might have to seek those out - oh boy!

First up we need to figure out how long we want to take to discuss this book and how many pages or chapters we want to read each time. What do you think?
- Ginny

My answer to how long we want to take is simply as long as it takes - but in reality it comes down to how long the DLs can spare to the project.
As for how many pages or chapters each time  - that's best left up to the experts here.

I haven't felt this excited about a prospective read/discussion for years.

[Frybabe]

Hurray! Not the one I voted for, but it is not unexpected that it is No. 1.

I am off to the Project Gutenberg site to see which translations (and there are more than one) are available. I plan on reading it on my Kindle. My Modern Library editions of The Odessey and The Illiad disappeared from my bookshelves long ago in one of my periodic sweeps/moves. I don't know who translated them.

[JudeS]

I didn't vote for this book but in a way am pleased to reread it .  The last time I read it I was 16 and hopefully I have learned something since then.
I like annotated classics so I will research and find one that appeals. This is an exciting project!

[ALF43]

Wow, I just checked my ereader and The Odyssey is a free download by Homer.  There is also one that says Homer and Alexander Pope.

??  Hello, wasn't Pope from the 1700'S?  Pedln- which one of them are you going to use?

[bookad]

Ginny:  am glad you mentioned the 2 translations that are kind to readers who might be intimidated by the old language of the 1700s...I admit I was worried when I looked at the book online thru Gutenberg...think I will go looking at some of the newer translations, and perhaps use that alongside the Gutenberg

Jude: can you tell me more about the 'annotated' books, is this like someone writing in the margins, who looks like they know what they are talking about, or
sounds interesting!!

Deb

[ginny]

Gosh yes, isn't this exciting? I LOVE the reaction here! Whoop!

 I am thrilled as it's SUCH a good read, and such an interesting group, I like just reading the comments now for heaven's sake, and such excitement here!  And  yes we definitely want to get something readable. If you CAN get one with notes or annotations or commentary, please please do, we need all the commentary we can get! We need so much brought to the table!

Gum with 4 of them!! YAHOO and some of us have the Pope,  his Cyclops is not bad but it's not Lombardo, here he is on the same thing as I put above for Lombardo:

"Thy promised boon, O Cyclop! now I claim,
And plead my title; Noman is my name.
By that distinguish'd from my tender years,
'Tis what my parents call me, and my peers."
"The giant then: 'Our promis'd grace receive,
The hospitable boon we mean to give:
When all thy wretched crew have felt my power,
Noman shall be the last I will devour.'"

I dunno, it may be me, but I think as pretty as this, (and it is pretty), sort of jingly, I find myself looking for the next rhyme and marveling at the cleverness of Pope instead of paying attention to what the story says.

Barbara, hahaha listen,  I can see right now, we are all  really going to have the discussion at the end, the climax of the book,  because when the Odyssey was first mentioned I thought,  I wonder, if it gets chosen,  what they will think of Penelope? She definitely had an interesting reaction about his return.   I have some trouble understanding her attitude toward him, to be honest, so I look forward to hearing what this group says:  I bet this group can understand her and explain it;   but let's not spoil the ending, let's get there together.


Next  we must decide how MUCH we're going to read each week and for the first week. And it's hard to do that without the book we will be using.

I love the excitement here! Now we must decide this:

First up we need to figure out how long we want to take to discuss this book and how many pages or chapters we want to read each time. What do you think?


Gum says: My answer to how long we want to take is simply as long as it takes - but in reality it comes down to how long the DLs can spare to the project.

As for how many pages or chapters each time  - that's best left up to the experts here.

I haven't felt this excited about a prospective read/discussion for years.

Me either, I'm afraid to breathe lest I break the spell and the excitement. We've got all the time in the world, we can take it as fast or slow as you all  like and really enjoy it.

Let's get a copy we can actually read and enjoy, because the book is marvelous, and then see how much we'd like to read?

We're going on our own Odyssey, that just occurred to me!  

A little indecision about the dates here, now resolved, February 15th it is. It will be our own little Valentine to ourselves in the new year.

[BarbStAubrey]

Goodness - without the book in hand to determine length I have no clue what would be a comfortable pace - one thing for sure I do not intend to learn any Greek during this read - and so those of  you who are looking forward to polishing up your Greek please have at it but I am not joining that part of the conversation - I do love to research symbolism and history and that is how I see contributing to the conversation -

Reading the reviews for the various translations on Amazon it appears some of the translations are in a poetic form and others took it one step further into a narrative like reading a novel today. I will be curious to read the poetic and as a result often a music with a different set of beats says as much as the actual words - yes, I am looking forward - at first it felt daunting but Ginny you are so right - the enthusiasm and reaction by this group is contagious - I am so glad to be a part of all this.

For those who do have the book on hand - can you give us an idea how many pages are devoted to the story? As of right now I would hope we could be finished by mid to late June - although our July and August because of high Temps can be like winter for those who live up north. We very often stay close to home and only get out when we must - therefore if this read takes 6 months so be it. I do think it is 'The' basis for all Greek and Roman literature therefore  in my mind it is worth whatever time it takes.

hmmm an annotated copy hmmm need to look into that...

[Mippy]

Ginny ~  What an interesting vote!  Although I did not vote for this, I'm game.
I assume the discussion will take months and months!
Are you planning to travel this spring?  Will we take a break if so, or are you game, Joan, to
take this DL task in hand if Ginny is away?  

Margie/Frybabe ~  I can't attempt this on my Kindle.  How do you find you are able to page back and discuss details that others mention?   I tried it in the discussion of Zeitoun by Dave Eggers, and it didn't work out well for me at all.
    p.s. for anyone reading this ~  I love my Kindle, but only for lite reading, so far.

[Dana]

If you get Fitzgerald there is a commentary you can get to go with it.  I like the Fitzgerald Iliad very much.  It's older (late 50s or early 60s I think), so it hasn't got the hype of the more recent translations, but it got plenty hype when it first came out--i remember my latin teacher raving about it !

[EvelynMC]

I found a copy of The Odyssey on my bookshelves.  Unread. It is the Great Books version (copyright 1955) and reads like a narrative. (Translated by S.H. Butcher and Andrew Lang (1879), based upon the third edition, 1888.)

I will be in the back row, listening to all of you and may raise my hand and make a comment now and then. But most of the time I'll be quietly learning.  I just wanted you all to know, I'll be here.  March 1.

Evelyn

[ginny]

Evelyn, welcome welcome, WELCOME!!  So good to have you, and isn't this a fabulous group and variation of translations already? I love it!~

It's February again, February 15, had to move it back to avoid conflict with another discussion so February it is, our own personal Valentine.

What matters is not the year the translation was done but only if you understand it, that it's written in such a way that resonates with YOU,  that's all that matters. If one begins to feel this is over one's head then one is not reading the right translation.  It's very readable and enjoyable, inventive and creative.  There's nothing like it in the world, Pirates of the Caribbean notwithstanding hahahaa.

OH I can't wait!~ Welcome,  All!

[BarbStAubrey]

Ok found some information on length - it appears Everyman has this broken in to essentially 24 chapters while the Loeb library addition breaks it into 12 chapters - another synopsis I read - forget what addition - says there are between 12000 and 15000 lines - like it or not looks like for me to be content I am going to have to consider a passing foray into Homeric Greek that is evidently not the same as even the Greek spoken by the populace, rather an Ionic Greek .

Here is a good link without going to Gutenberg - an on-line translation in 24 chapters - this site has many of the classics

http://www.online-literature.com/homer/odyssey/

[pedln]

Oh boy, I can see I'm going to have Odysseys coming out of my ears.  Andy, the one on my Kindle is a freebie and is an Alexander Pope translation.  Pope's introduction is very very very long.  I'm assuming this is a Gutenburg and there is no table of contents.  So, I spent part of the afternoon learning how to make bookmarks, and can now jump to Books I,  II,  III, and IV.

That's an interesting site, Barbara, and the Samuel Butler translation shown there is what I checked out from the library today, mainly because it looked like it had a list of the players, something I will definitely need.

Let me see if I have this straight.  First came the Illiad, which is about the Trojan War?  Then came the Odyssey, which took place AFTER the war?  I am remembering bits and pieces, some from Latin class and some from earlier isolated readings.  It will be good to get it all connected.

[Frybabe]

Evelyn, after going back and forth between the available translations on Project Gutenberg, I finally settled on the Butcher and Lang too. I liked the Pope translation, but wasn't sure how he managed to make it rhyme all the time without changing things a little. Cowper is there in a what looks like a semi-poem/semi-prose mode. Church was interesting if you want to try reading it in King James English. In the forward of the Gutenberg version of Samuel Butler, it said it was meant as an supplement to an earlier work of his, so I thought it might not be complete. There are several Greek versions and a French version. There is a very interesting version translated from a primary school reader from Athens, Greece. This last one is written as a story narrative. The audio version is read from Samuel Butler's translation.

Mippy, I haven't tried the bookmark feature yet. I understand that you can use that to bookmark pages you want to go back to. There is also a highlight and personal notes feature which I have not tried yet.