Classics Book Club, The

[kidsal]

Welcome to

We have a winner!  Our first ever read in the Classics Book Club   to begin on February 15,  with the initial segment, schedule still to be decided but we'll break it up into parts,   of Homer's Odyssey!

If you have been casting about for a great book to lose yourself in this winter, you've come to the right place! Help us decide on a schedule, how far DO we want to go that first week? How to divide this? Whose translation do you have?

**NB: There are probably 50+ famous translations of the Odyssey. If you find the translation you have does not speak to you or does not convey to you what's happening, this book is too fabulous to waste on an old outdated translation: try a new one.

Free SparkNotes background and analysis  on the Odyssey

"I haven't felt this excited about a prospective read/discussion for years."--- Gumtree

  

Discussion Leaders:  Joan K & ginny  

Everyone is welcome!  

Pulled my copy of the Odyssey off the shelf.  Bought it in the 60's when I was purchasing books on a monthly basis which had leather covers on the spine  It is a 1956 translation by Alexander Pope with intro by Thomas Yoseloff and a postscript by Pope, a Conclusion by W. Broome.

[Mippy]

Aside on Kindle use:  
I also have started the bookmarking the start of chapters in the Odyssey on my Kindle, and that's ok as far as it goes.   The Alexander Pope translation is a difficulty of a different color.

But what I found to be a difficulty in reading groups is when someone mentions a phrase or a particular sentence, and one cannot easy flip through pages to find it.  It isn't like a real paper book using either sticky notes or light pencil marks.   I'm going to decide which translation to buy shortly.   The Lombardo Iliad was so good, that will probably be my choice.  

[Roxania]

I assume I'll get Lombardo or Fagles--with any luck Barnes and Noble will have both so that I can compare them, but they cut their inventory so drastically when the recession hit that they may let me down.  I had a falling-apart old paperback, probably from the 1960's, but it was disintegrating and we got rid of it before we moved, and my daughter claimed our set of "Great Books."

With everyone using different translations, it doesn't seem practical to assign readings by the number of pages, since different people could end up at different places.  Would it be better to  "read through the Cyclops part," or "read up to where Circe comes in"?

[ALF43]

WEll I have no idea what I am doing but I walked up to our library where I live and in the Classic section I found The Odyssey on the shelf so I borrowed it.  It was copyrighted in 1944 by Walter J. Black, Inc. (?)  It has an informative introduction and preface and then lists the principal personages of the Odyssey.
  Do they all have this feature?  I don't know if they are all the same but  I am assuming that they are all broken down into "books."  Is that correct instead of chapters?  After i have a funeral service for my computer I will sit down and glance through the intro.  I have no idea if this will be alright to read with the other translations.

[kidsal]

My Pope edition is broken down into books.  This edition has a copyright date of 1956.

[PatH]

The Odyssey wasn't my first choice either, but it was a very close second, so I'm happy.  I own Lombardo, but think maybe I'll get Fagles too, since it's been praised so highly.  My problem with Pope is that, while it's lovely poetry, it seems more Pope than Homer.

How long to take?  Why not figure out a reasonable size first chunk, dive in, then see how it goes before making a schedule for the rest?

[bookad]

hi there
-went out this morning to try and locate a copy of 'Odyssey' and came up with a 1946 published by penguin--translation by E. V. Rieu
-located it in a second hand bookstore in Rockport, and paid $1.89; it only cost 1.15 Canadian when first put on the shelves in 1946
--it is not prose or poetry but  reads like a book, & there are 24 chapters

the author writes in the introduction:

This version of the Odyssey is, in its intention at any rate, a genuine translation, not a paraphrase nor a retold tale. At the same time, and within the rules I have set myself, I have done my best to make Homer easy reading for those who are unfamiliar with the Greek world. Nevertheless they are bound to find here much that is strange and I beg them to bear with me patiently through a few preliminary pages so that I may provide them beforehand with the answers to some at least of the questions that will occur to them as they read.

even though this book was translated in the 1940s it looks very user friendly....I intend to follow online a poetic version as well...but at least the book will keep me on track with the story I believe or hope

**yesterday found a web site with many of the translations of the Odyssey so I thought I'd include that if it might help anyone wondering about varying translations--after Ginny mentioned the 70 some-odd versions from translations I just had to check into that

https://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/homer/homertranslations.htm

-seems strange to have passed by this book so many times on bookshelves now to be eager to begin this endeavour

Deb

[JoanR]

I'm so happy that we'll be reading the Odyssey!  Have had the Fagles translation sitting on my shelf for a few years now but have never tackled the whole thing and I know I've been misssing a wonderful experience..  I am familiar with some of the stories from it, of course, but that is absolutely nothing like reading Homer from beginning to end!!!!!!

My edition has a long introduction by Bernard Knox.  At the end of the book there is a translator's postscript and notes on the translation.  There are maps too.   This looks like a pretty useful book - also I understand that the Fagles translation has been much praised - so I'm going with this one, for sure.

[roshanarose]

Hi fellow travellers (Odysseians). 

My "Odysseus" is the prose translation by T.E. Lawrence.  It is divided into 24 books.

I am not too sure of how we are going to handle this, but to my eye, at least, it would appear that concentrating on "the books" would be the way to go.  This is open to debate, of course.

[JudeS]

After researching on Google and Amazon I ordered the Fagle translation since so many readers couldn't stop praising it. 
Also it is definitely not the version we read in high school since the Fagle edition wasn't yet published. With shipping it cost only ten dollars and that will undoubtedly provide me with many hours of pleasure.
Although my husand has a Kindle and I could read it that way, having a book in my hand is still too great a joy to give up.
Having already read the book it seems that at least two months are necessary to have a serious discussion, with background provided by those of you with a grounding in Classical literature.
Perhaps there are some articles that some of you may suggest as preparation?

[Gumtree]

My "Odysseus" is the prose translation by T.E. Lawrence

Roshanarose Aha! that's one of the ones I have too - It's very readable. I just opened it at random and Lawrence's take on the rosy fingered dawn leapt off the page at me -

He says, At dawn's first redness in the sky...  I think it will be fun as we read to discover how different translators word the epithets here and there.

The Samuel Butler translation is also readable and online. For me,  a major drawback is that he uses the Roman names for the gods so that Zeus is Jove/Jupiter  - Athene becomes Minerva etc. which is OK but for a Greek text I prefer the Greek names for the pantheon of gods.

Bookad/Deb I like the Rieu translation - I have it in a glossy coffee table book with colour plates etc and am thinking of using it along with the Albert Cook version - one prose / one verse. Although I am tempted to look out for the Fagles as well as everyone speaks so highly of it.

The reading will divide easily into a number of books each time - and I'm sure the DLs will sort that out for us.

As for how long to take I like PatH's idea -
  Why not figure out a reasonable size first chunk, dive in, then see how it goes before making a schedule for the rest?

Oh Boy! Such fun!
 

[pedln]

Roshana, I think your suggestion of the "books" is the way to go.  At least we can all keep on track that way.

And Jude, yes I hope we take it slowly.  Why set any time limits?  We are a mixed bag here, backgroundwise -- like a computer class where some are getting acquainted with the mouse and others are writing software.

[ginny]

Oh wow what a discussion here, just love it. I enjoy reading the posts about as much as I anticipate the book!

Ok first up for me, since we're going on our own odyssey, or any trip,  is to make  a list.  I'll be the traveling list maker or...secretary. I am so excited about this!  I think I'll make a list for the heading of what translation each of us is reading, we'll want to hear how the different translators did it, and it will be interesting to see the different ones, I am not thinking we've ever done this before. Seems like we all used the same version in 1996. I like this better, it's different and exciting.

I'll go back thru and read all the posts again and get that up over the weekend.

Golly moses, Bookad, what a list of translations!  I had no idea there had been so many, and look at the new ones!! Doesn't that make you curious? Supposedly each age deserves its own translation, I have  never heard of some of them.

Gum, T.E. Lawrence? THE  Lawrence of  Arabia? Wow.  Rieu? Will somebody put in something of his?

The Butler sounds very user friendly and reassuring, that's what we need. Everybody keep him in mind if your own copy gets tedious, it appears there are tons of them online.

I'm always in favor of everybody in a book discussion having the same info from the get go. To that end, you do know that Spark Notes is online free? And they do have the Odyssey: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/odyssey

Now for those who want a Character List, there it is.

I like the idea of going by books and seeing how it goes, taking our time and deciding as we go.  Love it. I can see this is the right group to read this with, just love all the suggestions here.

Do you think the week before the discussion starts (we'll want a new discussion just for the Odyssey)  we might try to each bring something of the history which the book references?   Like the Trojan War? And what caused it? And Homer himself? The Oral Tradition?

I think if we start with some background we'll enjoy the book more, what do you think? In this we'll hope that each person will bring something of the history or background here to share.

***Now here I go off on another limb? *** Wikipedia is not the best source. I know it comes up first?  But it's full of inaccuracies. Why take your time, feel good about what you have found and bring it, only to find it's not true?

 You have to keep looking sometimes, sometimes 3 pages to find somebody who is reliable. Usually something with .edu at the end of it (but not always) is good?

All right, books it is for a schedule.  JoanK is having computer problems but I'm sure she'll agree, it makes perfect sense. My books are not here yet, they come tomorrow, but I have the Pope. There's no  long introduction, just a Note Upon the Translation, and it starts right in. I've got 14 pages in Book I, they are BIG pages, this is a BIG book but it's 14 pages for Book I?

Those of you with LONG introductions, how do you normally approach them? Joan R, a long introduction by  Bernard Knox. Do you feel duty bound to read it now, or later?

And then there's an "Argument, "  short, which explains the opening plot and it's FULL of names we need to know before we start too: Nestor, Minerva, Telemachus, Taphians, Menelaus, Penelope, Phemius, Calypso, Mercury, Ulysses, Pallas, Ithaca, Mentes, Ulysses, and I see Troy and Muse in the first  20 lines. We need  to get some background here unless the name Menelaus means as much to you as your own name?

So we need to include them also, in our background week, it's hard to read about Menelaus and Mercury without knowing who they were and why they are in the story.

 I also see Orestes and Pluto and AEgysthus, in the first two pages.  Don't you think if we get these first we can add on any others as they come up? We want to start out reading enjoyably, not stopping at every capitalized word wondering now who or what is this? And why is it here? That can sometimes be a turn off or a discouragement. One of the joys of group reading is there are so many hands on the plow, it goes better.

I guess just like we have the Honda Odyssey and it refers back to the Odyssey they also referred back to things and people they knew like the  Trojan War and the gods and they expected everybody to know what it was, just like the Honda, but we may not. AEgysthus?  Maybe in the week before we can all get some of these ironed out?

So are we looking at Book I for starters, no matter how many pages it is in your book?  I don't have an "Introduction," what will those of you with them do?

[Babi]

 My copy is the Robert Fitzgerald translation. No notes, no introduction..just plunges right in.
It's quite readable, but I have no idea how accurate the translation might be. I will no doubt
discover that as we compare notes.  The only additional information offered is occasional
numbers referring back to the original Greek text, which of course is of no use to me at all. Even
if I had the original Greek text I couldn't read it, but behold!!.. I will be discussing the book with
people who actually can!! 

[ALF43]

As mentioned:  My book has a preface, a very comprehensible introduction, an all inclusive cast of characters and an idiot trying to read it.
I agree Ginny, I think that the week prior to our start we should discuss the background information about the tragedy of this youth.

[Gumtree]

Rieu? Will somebody put in something of his?

Glad to, Ginny -   Beginning of Book II

As soon as Dawn with her rose-tinted hands had lit the East, Odysseus' son put on his clothes and got up from his bed. He slung a sharp sword from his shoulder, bound a stout pair of sandals on his comely feet and strode from his bedroom looking like a god. He at once gave orders to the clear-voiced criers to call his long-haired compatriots to Assembly. The herald cried their summons and the people quickly mustered. When all had arrived and the assembly was complete, Telemachus himself set out for the meeting-place, bronze spear in hand, escorted only by two dogs that trotted beside him. Athene endowed him with such magic charm that all eyes were turned on him in admiration when he came up. The elders made way for him as he took his father's seat.

Here's the same passage from Albert Cook:

And when the early born, rosy-fingered dawn appeared,
The dear son of Odysseus rose up out of bed,
Put on his clothes, and set the sharp sword round his shoulder,
Bound the lovely sandals beneath his shining feet
And went on out of the bedroom, like a god to look at.
At once he ordered the heralds with their piercing voices
To summon the long-haired Achaians to an assembly.
The herald made summons, and they gathered together quickly.
And when they were gathered and had come together
He went to the assembly and held his bronze spear in his fist -
Not alone, but the swift footed dogs went along with him.
Moreover Athene shed a divine grace around him.
The people all marveled at him as he was coming up.
He sat down in his father's seat, and the old men gave way.

And finally, Lawrence of Arabia:

So soon as rosy-fingered morning came forth from the first grey dawn, the beloved son of Odysseus sprang from bed, dressed, threw the sling of his cutting sword over one shoulder, and tied the rich sandals round his nimble feet: stately as a God he stepped out and down from his bed-chamber. On the moment he had called his heralds and told them to sound with their ringing voices, the assembly amongst the long-haired Achaeans. As he bade, the heralds sounded: and as they bade, the Achaeans assembled speedily. Telemachus waited till all had come together into place and then, tightly gripping his copper-bladed spear, he strode through their throng. For company he had just his two flashing-footed dogs at heel: but Athene poured about his form so significant a glory that upon his approach the eyes of the crowd were held at gaze. The elders yielded him way and in his father's great chair he sat him down.

So which one do you like best...

[JoanR]

Here's the beginning of Book 2 from Fagles:

When young dawn with her rose-red fingers shone once more
the true son of Odysseus sprang from bed and dressed,
over his shoulder he slung his well-honed sword,
 fastened rawhide sandals under his smooth feet
and stepped from his bedroom, handsome as a god.
At once he ordered heralds to cry out loud and clear
and summon the flowing-haired Achaeans to full assembly.
Their cries rand out.  The people filed in quickly.
When they'd grouped, crowding the meeting grounds,
Telemachmus strode in too, a bronze spear in his grip
and not alone: two sleek hounds went trottting at his heels.
And Athena lavished a marvelous splendor on the prince
so the people all gazed in wonder as he came forward,
the elders making way as he took his father's seat.

[Mippy]

For comparison, and thanks to Gumtree and JoanR for the above
here's A. Pope's version     (typed as poetic lines, from Kindle)

Now reddening from the dawn, the morning ray
Glow'd in the front of heaven, and gave the day
The youthful hero, with returning light,
Rose anxious from the inquietudes of night.
                        
A royal robe he wore with graceful pride,
A two-edged falchion threaten'd by his side,
Embroider'd sandals glitter'd as he trod
And forth he moved, majestic as a god.
                                              
Then by his heralds, restless of delay,
To council calls the peers:  the peers obey.
Soon as in solemn form the assembly sate,
From his high dome himself descends in state.
                                                  
Bright in his hand a ponderous javelin shined;
Two dogs, a faithful guard, attend behind;
Pallas with grace divine his form improves,
And gazing crowds admire him as he moves,
                            
His father's throne he fill'd; while distant stood
The hoary peers, and aged wisdom bow'd.

[JoanR]

I wonder why Alexander Pope thinks Telemachus is "anxious"!!  The other versions show a rather confident young man.
 I find Lawrence's diction too flowery - the term "Greek" brings "clean-cut " to my mind,  Rieu's prose version rather leaves me cold so I guess I'm prejudiced in favor of R.Fagles!!!

Other opinions??

[Frybabe]

Oh I do like Pope's poetry version. I haven't the time just now to compare with the Butcher and Lang. Will be back this evening.

[Dana]

really all these translations are fine, aren't they.  Your comment JoanR about the anxious youth is interesting and prompted me to look up the Greek and I cannot see where anxious comes from in that ,maybe anxious meant something different in Pope's day, like enthusiastic to get on with the day, or something.  The word for rosy fingered dawn is nice tho--rododactulos--rosy fingered!!

[ALF43]

This is the beginning of Book II that I have.

Now when the child of morning, rosy-fingered Dawn appeared.
Telechamus rose and dressed himself.
He bound his sandals on to his comely feet, girded his sword about his shoulder and left his room looking like an immortal god.
He at once sent the criers round to call the people in assembly, so they called them and the people gathered thereon.  Then, when they were go together, he went to the place of assembly spear in hand- not along, for his two hounds went with him. 
Athene endowed him as he went by and when he took his place in his father's seat even the oldest councilors made way for him.

Holy smokes, who know which to choose?  I like Alexander Pope's version I think.

[Roxania]

OK, at Barnes and Noble this afternoon, I speed-dated Fitzgerald, Fagles and Lombardo, and came home with the latter.   It was a tough call.  I liked Fitzgerald's, too--his translation had almost an Anglo-Saxon feel, but in the end I went for the vigor.  Fagles was my least favorite, except that the printing in his version was the easiest on my eyes. 

[EvelynMC]

I absolutely love this.  I just love reading all the versions, they are all good. My Butcher & Lang is similar to all of them... in this version he has "smooth feet and goodly sandals".   

This is going to be such a great discussion. It's going to be such fun to compare the different versions.

Evelyn

[bookad]

Rieu version of Odyssey-1946
I am amazed that my version is so readable and I can follow it as a story...I was afraid with a poetry version I would get lost in the story among the flowery language...but as I said I intend to follow one of the online versions alongside the penguin-Rieu hardcopy I have
-he writes an intro of 10 pages
chapter 1 is titled 'Athene Visits Telemachus-pg 25-- 36

at the back of the book is a sort of crib sheet
Greek Gods in the Odyssey
i.e.
name                  relationship to Zeus             functions
Aphrodite             daughter of Zeus & Dione    Goddess of Love
(Venus)
Apollo                  son of Zeus & Leto             God of light, music, archery
 (Apollo)                                                                             prophecy

and so on......            

Ginny-thank you for mentioning the'sparks' notes online-I was all set to go to half-priced books again
to get a copy of something like that to help me
I am really eager to begin this, I think it will be fun...
Deb                                                                            

[kidsal]

Anchialus      Antinous      Atrides
Calypso                   Eurymachus      Hermes
Icarious                   Ilus         Jason
Jove                        Laertes                  Menelaus
Mentes                  Mercury                  Minerva
Muse         Neptune                  Nestor
Ops         Orestes                  Pallas
Penelope      Phemius                  Phorcys
Pluto         Polybus                  Pisenor
Polypheme      Taphians               Telemachus
Thoosa                   Ulysses                   Zacynthus
PLACES, ETC.
Achaian coast                Brutian strand               Duliehium
Ephyre                   AEthiopia               lion
Ilus         Ithaca         Neion
Ogygia                   Olympus      Phrygian shore
Pyle         Reithrus                  Reithrian port
Samos                   Sparta                 Stygian gloom
Taphian relm                Temese                 Troy
Zacynthus Island
NAMES FOUND IN BOOK I OF POPE EDITION!! WHOOPS MY NICE COLUMNS WON'T STAY PUT!!

[ginny]

I will have to say the Spark notes are very impressive. For instance look what they do with Sally's character list:

Penelope -  Wife of Odysseus and mother of Telemachus. Penelope spends her days in the palace pining for the husband who left for Troy twenty years earlier and never returned. Homer portrays her as sometimes flighty and excitable but also clever and steadfastly true to her husband.

Read an in-depth analysis of Penelope.

Athena -  Daughter of Zeus and goddess of wisdom, purposeful battle, and the womanly arts. Athena assists Odysseus and Telemachus with divine powers throughout the epic, and she speaks up for them in the councils of the gods on Mount Olympus. She often appears in disguise as Mentor, an old friend of Odysseus.

Read an in-depth analysis of Athena.

And so on, those are not real links, in my post but they are on the website. We need Spark Notes in the heading, it's quick and easy and germane to the story.

I don't actually SEE them saying Athena is Minerva  as Pope mentions in Sally's post, but maybe that's in the longer explanation.

Now the business about "anxious," is exactly what I am hoping those who know ancient Greek here (I believe there are three of you) will help us with.

What IS the word in Greek? Why,  one wonders do three translators put here by  Gum, JoanR and Mippy, thank you, mention nothing of anxiety but Pope does? What is the definition of that word? Are there circumstances when it's used for "anxious" and when it's not? That was a very good question, by JoanR: I wonder why Alexander Pope thinks Telemachus is "anxious"!!  Why indeed?

I liked Dana's response, she thought it was Pope and the times he lived in what IS the word and what are the definitions?

What a trip to be able to find out here, maybe our three Graiae (just kidding KIDDING!)  Greekists can figure it out, argue it out, between them, pass it about like the one eye,  and present us with a solution.

Failing that, failing a consensus between our Greekists, I think this type of thing would make a perfect question for Dr. Lombardo, and he'd answer, you can bet on that, but let's see if we can work it out ourselves and not ask him anything we can't manage. I can't wait to see what HE has for that passage.

Some of those translations put here are VERY readable, this is exciting, I agree, Evelyn.

Roxania you scare me with the Fagles, didn't care for it? Good thing I ordered the Lombardo too, I know he's readable. With so many on Amazon in the "look inside" situation you really can read a bit of each, too,  speed date hahaha

It just boils down to what speaks to YOU, really. Nobody is translating the Odyssey who doesn't know what he is  doing, that's what makes it so exciting: the differences. What fun!

Welcome, All! Today my books  should be here!

So we're looking at Book I for the 15th? and the 7th to the 15th for background, which we'll all bring here?

[kidsal]

My Greek dictionary shows  φροντιζω - for being anxious


επιμελεια ας η - for anxiety

[Babi]

 Oh, GUM, that was great. I can see how much it's going to add to my enjoyment to have other
versions for comparison.
  Naturally, I had to go read that passage in Fitzgerald's translation. Fitzgerald presents
a more human aspect, I believe. There seems to be more emphasis on the man and less on the
influence of the gods.
  Just comparing the translations given here, it seems to me that Pope is sounding more like
Pope than Homer.

[roshanarose]

Oh my goodness.  Φροντίζω (Attic Greek / Ancient Greek) has several meanings according to my Liddell and Scott p.768.  It can mean to think; to consider; give heed; to care about; to devise.  I would have to read the original Greek to get an idea of the context.  Φροντίζειν περί τίνος means to be concerned or anxious about something.  The ω or omega ending in Greek verbs always signifies "I".  The ειν would indicate a he/she/it ending.

Η Επιμέλεια according to Liddell and Scott p.255 is a feminine singular noun meaning  care, attention, diligence,  or all of the above paid to a thing.

My Modern Greek dictionary (J.T. Pring p. 208) has the same verb Φροντίζω which means to look after; take care of; I will see to it. 

Is it really necessary at this stage to concern ourselves about the intricacies of translation?  Personally, I find it fascinating, but I have the feeling that other participants in this discussion may not.

[pedln]

This is what my Crowell’s Handbook of Classical Mythology says about Athena and Minerva

Minerva, a Roman goddess regularly identified with Athena. Minerva was the patroness of the arts and crafts and therefore of the intelligence and skill reqauired in their practice.  These qualities were extended to the skills of war.  Her funtions were so similar to those of Athena that the two goddesses were readily equated, but Minera was an important deity in her own right.

That doesn’t sound like they were one and the same.  I grew up knowing Minerva as the Goddess of Wisdom;  my poor mother had been given the name of Ruby Minerva.  As a little girl 100 years ago she lorded that title over her little sister Violet Thora, who was only the goddess of thunder.  (My grandmother picked out some doozies for her girls.     )

[JudeS]

I wanted to figure out which translation we had read in class so many years ago.  Since some of the pages (the ones with drawings) are still imprinted on my brain, I remembered that the pages opposite the drawings were in verse.  Therefore , after reading the verses presented here (they seemed somehow more familiar than the other translations) I went to find out about Pope and who he was and why  he translated this book.
Besides finding out about his many maladies, the fact that he was only four feet six and that he was one of the great writers of his time I came upon this:
"Encouraged by the success of the Illiad,Pope translated the Odyssey in 1726. Confronted by the arduous ness of the task
he enlisted the help of William Broome (8 books) and Elijah Fenton(4 books).  Pope (12 books) tried to conceal this collaboration but the secret leaked out. It did not effect the commercial success of the book which was one of Popes main concerns."
So praising Popes translation might be praising Pope-Broome-Fenton translations.
 Sorry, didn't really want to be a spoil sport.

[Frybabe]

That was interesting, Judi.  I wonder if anyone can tell the difference between the three, or if Pope did an overall edit of the others to make and differences in style consistent with his translation.

[roshanarose]

Pedln - I think Ruby Minerva is a gorgeous name, but not so sure I would want to be saddled with it for life.  Names like Ruby are enjoying something of a revival these days.  So Minerva as a second name would be quite fitting.

As I understand it the Romans adopted the Greek deities as their own but gave them different names, and possibly a couple of extra attributes? e.g. Hermes/Mercury; Aphrodite/Venus; Hephaestus/Vulcan; Hera/Juno; Mars/Ares etc.  

For sure Minerva was a Goddess in her own right in Rome.  So were all the others.  The Romans adopted them from Greece to suit their own purposes.  I don't know the politics regarding the name changes, but I bet they were there.  The conquerors' prerogative, no doubt.  But Athena was also the Goddess of many crafts, weaving being one.

[roshanarose]

Aaaarrrgghhhhhh!  I just wrote up a whole summary of Athena, my own words, not cut and paste, and the whole bloody thing disappeared into cyberspace.  Don't you just HATE it when that happens?  It was information about the great Goddess that I gleaned from about 6 websites.  

btw φροντίζω is pronounced fronteezo; and  φροντίζειν is pronounced fronteezeen.  Modern Greek has dropped the ending of "ν" which is actually pronounced n. 

[kidsal]

I have had so much disappear into cyberspace that I now make two copies of everything I value keeping.  Keep wondering if I'm hitting the Control key or something?

[ginny]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

I got my copies of Fagles and Lombardo. I think the Fagles cover (in our heading) is the prettiest book I ever saw.  In Edit: yes it is but it's not Fagles, see below. The Edit: Butler  paperback edition  has a fairly short preface as has been said, but lots of great notes. The Lombardo has a  HUGE introduction and I know from experience that Lombardo's will explain what he's doing and why so I need to read it.

Fagles  Edit: Butler see below: uses the Roman names for the gods, Minerva, Jove, Neptune.


Lombardo uses the Greek for the same people: Athena, Zeus, Poseidon.

Pope uses Minerva, Jove, etc. Roman names.

The differences in Minerva and Athena? An interesting point. If we do bring anything here as research, we'll need to put the source. No matter how many sources , or how  summarized, so others can see it too.

What an interesting point you bring up, Pedln. What was WITH those old names? Love it.  My grandmother's name was Arsinoe, which  is quite a name in Greek. She was told it meant water nymph but it has other connotations also.  People called her Sina. It would appear our ancestors were well read?  Now we will be too.

On the  Greek language bits, why yes indeed, we do want to hear any points of interesting contention or clarification. It can only add to the overall picture.  To do this somebody has to have a copy of the Odyssey in Greek so we can (or you can) examine the actual word as it occurs in context.

I am truly excited about this adventure! These books look eminently readable and understandable (wasn't that interesting about Pope and the other collaborators, that's fascinating, Jude, where did you read that? Does it say why Pope tried to hide the collaborators? I need to hear more about Pope, I think.

This is like a launch of a rocket ship, the countdown has begun, but do we have everything in place, everything checked? We'll start February 7 with some background and launch right in on the 15th with.... Book I? Books I and II?

Everyone is welcome, and obviously if I don't even know whose translation I bought, take heart from my example and join us, you'll love the adventure and there's nothing to be intimidated about. hahaha

The Countdown Begins! (Can you hear them counting in the distance?)_  T-18 is it? And counting!

[JoanR]

Gee, Ginny - I think someone sent you a fake Fagles !!  The introduction by Bernard Knox in my edition (Penguin) is a full 61 pages long and Fagles is using all the Greek names for the gods and goddesses.  There is a pronouncing glossary at the end with no Roman names in it - only the Greek with identification. 
  I've reserved the audio version of Fagles' translation from our county library and should have it soon. I'm looking forward to hearing it.

It's interesting seeing the Greek words  that those of us who study Greek have been putting up but I can only look at them, not hear them in my head, since I haven't the faintest idea of the pronunciation.   

[roshanarose]

JoanR - I can help with pronunciation if you have any queries.  But pronunciation of AG is a contentious issue.  How can we be sure of how it was pronounced when we have never heard it?  I do know that the pronunciation of AG and MG differ with certain letters.  Having more than one source of pronunciation is very helpful, if that is your interest, and can be found in reputable dictionaries/lexicons.

[ginny]

Oh DUH ? Hello, the one in the heading? The glorious cover? The "fake" Fagles? Is not by Fagles at all, you really have to look and see who DID do it, his name is almost nowhere,  not on the cover or the back,  it's a 2010 edition of Butler! Hello? One had done a search for Fagles and ended up with a page of his displayed and this one was right there, and one hahaha went for the glory and  never thought to double check that it was his hahahaha and  behold! It's Butler. Very readable I must say, no Greek names. Sigh sigh, off to B&N tomorrow to get the  Fagles, but I must say now that gives me Butler, Lombardo and Pope. They are very easy to compare, too.

I swear maybe I am a Capricorn after all, my year as one is certainly starting out goatish.  Sheesh.