Classics Book Club, The

[ginny]

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Now reading:

March 14---Book V:  Odysseus, Calypso, and Hermes  

A Fantastic Cave Landscape with Odysseus & Calypso
Jan Breughel the Elder (painted with Hendrick de Clerck)
c. 1612

Calypso offers Odysseus a chest
Lucanian red figure hydria
c. 450 BC
Museo Nazionale, Naples

 

Discussion Leaders:  Joan K & ginny 

Hermes' message to Calypso
Engraving and etching on paper
John Flaxman
1805
Tate Gallery

Useful Links:

1. Critical Analysis: Free SparkNotes background and analysis  on the Odyssey
2. Translations Used in This Discussion So Far:
3. Initial Points to Watch For: submitted by JudeS
4. Maps:
Map of the  Voyages of Odysseus
Map of Voyages in order
Map of Stops Numbered
Our Map Showing Place Names in the Odyssey

Hermes visits Calypso and Odysseus
Etching
Hubert Maurer (1738-1818)

A modern Calypso:
Tia Dalma aka Calypso, goddess of the sea
The Pirates of the Caribbean, At World's End
2007

[ginny]

Man o man, it's absolutely amazing how many references there are to Calypso today, this list is from IMdB and it doesn't even  include the most famous: the Pirates of the Caribbean which is absolutely full of classical references. I do think that their portrayal of Calypso in the last movie At  World's End (2007).  (I hoped to find it on Youtube but can't) was just brilliant.

But here are the others: (I bet Wikipedia has more):

Titles (Exact Matches) (Displaying 6 Results)
     
1.   
Manfish (1956)
aka "Calypso" - UK
     
2.   
"Calypso" (1999) (TV series)
aka "Calypso" - Hungary (imdb display title)
    3.   Calypso (1958)
aka "Calypso"
    4.   Calypso (2008)
aka "Calypso"
    5.   Calypso (2009)
aka "Calypso"
    6.   Calypso (2010)
aka "Calypso"
Characters (Exact Matches) (Displaying 4 Results)
    1.   Calypso (The Odyssey (1997) (TV), Vanessa Williams)

    2.   Calypso ("Spider-Man" (1994), Susan Beaubian)
 aka "Noir Calypso"
 aka "Calypso Enzili"
    3.   Calypso (Twisted Metal 4 (1999) (VG), Mel McMurrin)

    4.   Calypso (Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard, and the Wardrobe (1995) (VG), Roger Blake)

Keywords (Exact Matches) (Displaying 1 Result)
    1.   calypso (18 titles - Beetle Juice (1988), ...)
Companies (Exact Matches) (Displaying 1 Result)
    1.   Calypso (Talent Agent)
Names (Partial Matches) (Displaying 14 Results)
    1.   Lasso Calypso (Self, Crazy Horse - Le show (2002) (V))

    2.   Macbeth's Calypso Band (Self, House-Rent Party (1946))

    3.   Anthony S. Calypso (Miscellaneous Crew, Beloved (1998/I))
 aka "Anthony Calypso"
    4.   Paquita Calypso (Costume Designer, El futuro está en el porno (2005))

    5.   Calypso Eaton (Camera and Electrical Department, UK Green Party Election Broadcast (2004) (TV))
    6.   Louis Farrakhan (Self, The Shadow of Hate (1995))
 nickname "Calypso Gene"
    7.   George 'Calypso' Browne (Self, Rock You Sinners (1958))

    8.   Calypso Medeiros (Actress, Derrière la porte (1999))

    9.   Calypso Molho (Actor, Les sept péchés capitaux (1992))

    10.   Calypso Rose (Self, One Hand Don't Clap (1991))

    11.   McArtha Linda Sandy-Lewis (Self, Calypso Dreams (2004) (V))
 aka "Calypso Rose"
    12.   Calypso Barnard (Actor, Wings (2005))

    13.   Dr. Calypso (Self, Amb el cor a la mà (2009) (TV))

    14.   calypso medeiros (Katabami)

Titles (Partial Matches) (Displaying 14 Results)
    1.   Bop Girl Goes Calypso (1957)
  
aka "Bop, rock och calypso" - Sweden
aka "Bop Girl Goes Calypso"
    2.   Calypso Cat (1962)
aka "Calypso Cat"
    3.   Calypso Is Like So (2003)
aka "Calypso Is Like So"
    4.   Calypso Dreams (2004) (V)
aka "Calypso Dreams"
    5.   Calypso Heat Wave (1957)
  
aka "Calypso paraati" - Finland
aka "Calypso-Fieber" - Germany
aka "Calypso Heat Wave"
aka "Cuban calypso" - Italy
    6.   Calypso Joe (1957)
aka "Calypso Joe" - Sweden
    7.   Cristobalito, the Calypso Colt (1970) (TV)
aka "Cristobalito, the Calypso Colt"
    8.   Island Women (1958)
aka "Calypso-saari" - Finland
    9.   Ulysses and the Giant Polyphemus (1905)
aka "L'île de Calypso: Ulysse et le géant Polyphème" - France (original title)
aka "L'île de Calypso: Ulysse et le géant Polyphème"
    10.   Ay... Calypso no te rajes! (1958)
aka "Ay... Calypso no te rajes!"
    11.   Calypso III (2010) (V)
aka "Calypso III"
    12.   Cowboy Calypso (1946)
aka "Cowboy Calypso"
    13.   Jeffrey's Calypso (2005)
aka "Jeffrey's Calypso"
    14.   Podwójne calypso (1987) (TV)
aka "Podwójne calypso"

[JudeS]

Joan K
The Greek poets I mentioned were from the 6th century BCE.
Here is a list of the known writers of the time:
580-Alcaeus and Sappho
544-Theognis
        Beginning of Attic tragedy
530-Anacreon
515-Simonides

The Illiad and Odyssey are listed as being written between 800-700.
To put it in perspective Sophocles is listed at 456 and Aristophanes as 410 while Plato is listed as 387 and Aristotle at 344.
This list has helped me put many Greek events and people in perspective. I hope it helps others.

[JoanK]

JUDE: that helps a lot! Thanks.

[JoanK]

Amazon has Ancient Greek Literature in its Living Context (used) for $2.99 plus shipping, so I ordered it.

[PatH]

I await tomorrow eagerly; I've already read chapters 5-7 (6 and 7 are pretty short) and am ready to go.

In the meantime, I'll comment further on Orestes.  Over 50 years ago I saw Aeschylus' Oresteia, put on by the excellent drama department of Catholic University.  I was unfamiliar with the play, and it completely blew me away; some of the scenes are still vivid in my mind.  The stilted conventions of Greek drama, in which most of the action takes place offstage and the time frame can't be more than 24 hours don't matter--it's incredibly powerful.

As Aeschylus tells it, after Orestes kills Aegisthus and his mother Clytemnestra for killing Agamemnon, he is punished by being pursued for years by the Furies as he wanders from place to place.  Finally he wins free by atoning and pleading to Athena and Apollo for forgiveness.

Homer doesn't mention this aspect; in the Odyssey, Orestes is mentioned to Telemachus as a good example.

[bookad]

I had this all set to post last night, but my server went down...
...................................................
hi there

I am so glad to have a 'catch up' day, though am keeping up with the chapters and the story...but the posts bring up lesser characters; must try to get them straight in my mind....I suppose another mind-map to sort out names might be in order...

would it be of any interest to add to the list of translations being used for this discussion the year of initial publication so as to get an idea of the era of publication!!!
the books I am reading are:
   translated by   Lattimore/1967--initial publ in 1967
                         E. V. Rieu/1946--pub initially 1946

it perked my interest when Cook was mentioned and I wondered when this translation took place ...also wondered if anyone was pursuing an older translation

an old memory came back to haunt me this evening about being read comic books revolving around fairy tales and perhaps the classics, when I was age 6 in hospital(I was there for 3 months) and my father would come in to visit as I was in downtown Toronto, and they lived out of the city, from his office across the road, during his lunchhours, and read to me...and I can remember a comic with an older gentleman, Zeus and a younger lithe, agile man, maybe Hermes walking almost on air, with wings on his feet and sort of a helmet with wings on his head, both dressed in roman togs, with staffs... now I'll have to put my mind to work on what the story might have been; it evades me right now

my thoughts for today
take care
Deb

[PatH]

OK, Deb, I'll add

Lombardo, Stanley/ 2000
Fagles, Robert/ 1996

I have both, but am mostly sticking with Lombardo, which is probably the youngest of the lot.

Goodness, I wonder what that comic could have been.  I read a lot of comics, but don't remember it.

[Gumtree]

Deb - The Cook translation is 1967

[ginny]

Murray's translation is 1919 and the revised edition by Dimock is 1995, it's the Harvard Loeb series.

Deb, what a wonderful memory. (Your father, not the 3 months!) The guy with the wings on his feet was probably Mercury or Hermes, the wings on the hat also sounds right.

Don't you all remember the Classic comics? I've got one of Caesar's Gallic Wars which I love, it's in Latin and is so fun.

[JudeS]

Mystery solved! Not by me but by my husband who remembered the name of the Hero. 
THE FLASH!
He was somewhat fashioned after Hermes.
Go to Wikipedia and read all about him!
Perhaps all the superheroes of our comic book youth were fashioned ,to some extent, after the Greek Gods.
And yes Ginny. I read every Classic comic available for a period of my childhood. I remember when we had to read A Tale Of Two Cities by Dickens, I thought to myself: But that's a comic book for kids. Luckily I didn't say that aloud.

[JoanK]

HOMER AS BIRDWATCHER, PART I

Everyone gets out of reading things that resonate with there experience. As a birdwatcher, i'm fascinated by the many references to birds in Homer (here and in the Iliad). The descriptions are usually so spot-on, I feel that Homer (or someone) was observing these bird closely.

Not so in Chapter V. I've decided that while Homer was a birdwatcher, his translaters aren't! I need help.

In the beginning of Chapter V, Hermes is sent with a message: (l. 54 ff

Lombardo:

"Skimming the waves like a cormorant.
The bird that patrols the saltwater billows
Hunting for fish, seaspume on its plumage

Hermes flying low and planing the whitcaps"

Okay, I've seen dozens of cormorants, and haven't seen them hunt that way. They sit on the ocean and dive down underwater to catch fish.

PatH said that Fagles trnslated it "tern".
 Tern is better, although gulls skim more than terns.

help. What do your translations say? What is the Greek word?

[JoanK]

Cormorants and terns are nothing alike. I can't imagine they had similiar names in greek. Here are cormorants:

http://www.northrup.org/photos/cormorant/

And here are terns. They fly with a flitter, hover, and then dive, as the pictures show:

http://stock.tobinphoto.com/arctic-terns-photos.php

[ginny]

JoanK, Murray has a cormorant!

Butler has a cormorant!

My computer is just hanging on here till tomorrow at 10:30 when the repairman comes so I can't do the Greek word, maybe Sally can help.

Jude,
Imagine your husband remembering The Flash all these years!

And YES, the Classics Illustrated Comic books, YES! And I looked them up and lo and behold Amazon had one for the Odyssey and one for the Iliad, I could NOT resist revisiting my childhood!!



I don't know what Pope has, his lines are not numbered but in this section he seems to say right before Hermes meets Calypso: "the chough, the sea-mew, the loquacious crow,-/ And scream aloft, and skim the deeps below."

What on earth a chough and a sea-mew are I have no idea.

[PatH]

I'll round off Fagles by quoting a bit more:

      ...skimmed the waves like a tern
that down the deadly gulfs of the barren salt swells
glides and dives for fish,
dipping its beating wings in bursts of spray--

It's not a trivial point.  In that economy, an accurate knowledge of nature and its creatures and their behavior was a necessary survival skill.  I don't know if terns were important, though bird behavior was a useful navigational tool, but you would expect people to have an acute awareness of all nature's workings and an epic should get it right.

[PatH]

In my dictionary, a chough is any bird of an Old World genus of crows (even less appropriate than cormorants) and a sea-mew is a seagull, esp the European Larus canis (quite appropriate).

[PatH]

Back to earth.  Now we meet Odysseus for the first time, and he's sure not a happy camper.  He spends his time sitting by the sea, weeping from frustration and homesickness.  Here he is, leading a life of ease and luxury, with a beautiful goddess to warm his bed, and the promise of immortality if he'll stay.  But that's not what he wants.  He wants the stony, inhospitable soil of his own Ithaca, and his own wife Penelope by his side.  He must also want a life with some purpose and action to it; he's hard-wired to be doing and fighting and accomplishing.

[bookad]

I am so intrigued by different translations; its something I must look into...

when I took home those different translated copies of Anna Karina by Tolstoy I never thought this might come back to haunt me, only more so...

sorry PatH but must get in my 2 cents worth in with my translations of the above..they are so different still
E. V. Rieu--like a sea-mew drenching the feathers of its wings with spray as it pursues the fish
Lattimore--like a shearwater who along the deadly deep ways of the barren salt sea goes hunting fish

Deb

[PatH]

Deb, that's exactly what we want--all the translations we can get.  I like Rieu better than Lattimore here.

[JoanK]

OK, we're all over the bird world. I suspect that it's not Homer's fault: I'm betting that he knew exactly what he was talking about. My guess (I love to make guesses like this, although I may be 100% wrong) is that the Greek word used is an orphan: a word that only appears once, or a few times, so that translators have to guess.

An example: remember the lines in the Song of Songs:

"Comfort me with apples,
For I am sick with love"  (King James)

Apples is such a Hebrew word. It only appears this once, and no one knows what it means.

[JoanK]

Homer as birdwatcher, part 2.

It gets worse on the next page: he's describing calypso's island"

Lombardo Book 5 67 ff

"Around her cave the woodland was in bloom,
Alder and poplar and fragrant cypress
Long-winged birds neested in the leaves,
Horned owls and larks and slender-throated shorebirds
That screech like crows over the bright saltwater."

"shorebirds" is the name of several families of birds that include sandpipers, and their larger relatives. Sandpipers do not nest in trees. What do the other translations say?

[PatH]

Fagles:

and there birds roosted, folding their long wings,
owls and hawks and the spread-beaked ravens of the sea,
black skimmers who make their living off the waves.

Joan, I think I know what you're going to say about skimmers nesting in trees with owls.

[roshanarose]

JoanK - I wish I could see these words in Greek.  Modern Greek and Ancient Greek share at least one name for a bird.  It is a "peristeri" περιστέρι, in English we call it a swallow.  All I could find in my MG to do with sea birds of passage was "diabatariko" διαβατάρικο.  It doesn't appear in My Ancient Greek dictionary though.  My Liddell and Scott is wonderful but it only has from Greek to English.  I need to get on the trail of terns, seagulls, cormorants and such. 

[PatH]

Roshanarose, you're just what we need to sort this out, assuming it's sort-out-able.

[bookad]

My translations were not too far removed from those cited

E. V. RieuThe cave was sheltered by a verdant corpse of alders, aspens, and fragrant cypresses, which were the roosting-place of feathered creatures, horned owls and falcons and garrulous choughs, birds of the coast, whose daily business takes them down to the sea.

Lattimore--There was a growth of grove around the cavern, flourishing alder was there, and the black popular, and fragrant cypress, and there were birds with spreading wings who made their nests in it, like owls and hawks, and birds of the sea with long beaks who were like ravens, but all their work is on the sea water.

it gives a nice dimension to the book to be able to visualize the environment especially when I can relate parts to what I am familiar with ...the types of trees,...the birds their habits,....

I feel kind of sorry for calyspo, spelled Kalypso by Lattimore/ losing her
companion in this chapter
Deb

[kidsal]

Bird         ορνις ιθος ο/η
Crow         κορας ακος ο
Hawk         ιερας ακος ο
Lark         κορυδος ου ο
Owl         γλαυξ γλαυκος η
Raven         κοραξ  ακος ο
Swallow                          χελιδων ονοσ η

[Gumtree]

JoanK : This is fascinating about the birds ...

Cook has V lines 51-53:
Then he hastened upon the wave as a sea gull does
That over the terrible gulfs of the barren sea
Dips its rapid wings, while catching fish, in the brine.

and then lines 63-67:
Wood was growing in abundance around the cave,
Alder and black poplar and fine-scented cypress,
Where the birds with their long wings went to sleep,
Horned owls and hawks and, with their long tongues,
Salt water crows, who are busy with things of the sea.

Seems to be a lot of variance in translations for the names of birds but in the main they agree on the names of the trees - alder, black poplar and cypress.

[roshanarose]

Ooops mea culpa regarding swallow.  It is "helidon (ia)" as Sal says.  Same in MG.  The word I put forward was "peristeri" which on second reading means dove or pigeon in AG and MG, only in AG it is a feminine noun and in MG it is a neuter noun.  There is a legend in Macedonia about a custom involving the helidon.  It is off-topic, but I will post the link if anyone is interested.

btw I checked out some Homer links today about Hermes and his encounter with sea birds on his way to Kalypso's isle.  They all agree that the bird mentioned was "cormorant".  If anyone can find that in their lexicon, they are to be congratulated!

Etymology of Kalypso

The etymology of Calypso's name is from καλύπτω (kalyptō), meaning "to cover", "to conceal", "to hide".[10] It is the opposite of apocalypse, meaning to reveal, which suggests that Calypso may have originally been a death goddess.[11] According to Etymologicum Magnum her name means καλύπτουσα το διανοούμενον, i.e. "concealing the knowledge", which combined with the Homeric epithet δολόεσσα, meaning subtle or wily, justifies the hermetic character of Calypso and her island.

The spelling of Calypso music reflects a later folk-etymological assimilation with the mythological name[12] and is not otherwise related to the figure from the Odyssey.

From Wikipedia

[ginny]

Thank you so much Sally. I tried half the night to scan in those lines. Could you scan in the actual line in question? I love the discussion here on the difference in birds, who knew?

I found a site on Birds in Greece. It appears there are 40 species of Cormorants extant and one in Greece called the Pygmy Cormorant (which looks like an elephant to me) which is almost extinct.

I am unable to copy and paste suddenly,  good thing I have a service call scheduled for today, but somewhere I did read the etymology of cormorant is surprising, it's Latin sea raven or something like that. Jeepers how vague, hopefully I can soon back up with copying what I'm seeing.

But on a Birding site of Greece I found that there IS no tradition or history of birding  in Greece, so that may account for the variance in description of the habits of the bird. It's fascinating, I think.

I love Book V. Lombardo's cormorant  notwithstanding, he appears in good company, I love his translation here, it's so Robinson Crusoe. Could you just build that raft yourself?

I woke up thinking I believe I could draw it. I'm going to try.

LOOK at these characters!!!!

Odysseus, the sad (when we meet him he's in tears on the shore). The Man of Constant Sorrow. That does not keep him from sleeping with Calypso, note.

But note the wily Odysseus, always thinking, always...I loved the bit about, here's help from the goddesses, er.... no, I don't think I will do what you want, I'm going to think for myself. How many times does he do this? He's definitely a thinking man. What good does it do him? Man proposes, god disposes.

SHE, Calypso,  for her part,  is quite irritated about the orders from on high, Zeus. Much in Lombardo about the "aegis," that is an important concept to the ancients, do we all know what it is? Zeus has the "aegis," so they all have to do what he wants, but not before Calypso lets loose with her own HEY, you...and then you.... how come the male gods have all the fun, double standard here!

Is she right?

Here are some fabulous beginning questions from Temple:

Book 5

152 Second council of the gods. Note the reference to Athena's plan. Hermes to order Calypso to send him home, and Hermes delivers the message. When was the first council? Are there any real differences from the first one? Why Hermes? Think about his functions.

What is the etymology of Calypso?

Roshanarose has done this one, thank you!

Try to comment on the description of her domain. Is she a good hostess? Note her "feminist" complaint.

Why has Homer kept Odysseus from us for 4 books?

152-7 Calypso agrees, tells O to build a boat, and reassures him when he suspects treachery. The next day he departs. What is O's first utterance in the epic and what does it say about his attitude to other humans and to the gods? Why is he like this? Why does he reject Calypso's offer of immortality? Does this situation remind you of any other myths? Can they guide your interpretation of this episode?

161-7 As O sights the island of Scheria after 17 days, the home of the Phaeacians, Poseidon wrecks his boat. Why? The sea-goddess Leucothea (Ino) saves him, but in his near-paranoia, he almost rejects her help; again, as you read, think about how he has reached this point. Athena stills the storm, and he reaches the coast, finds shelter and falls asleep.

Note the similes in this book; are they different from the similes in the Iliad?. To what is O being compared?Why are these comparisons made?

In this book you read (at least) 2 indications of the seasons. What time of year do you think it is? (This is important for understanding some of the underlying mythic patterns).

What are your thoughts on any of the above, particularly the question in red here? I'm going off to draw the boat. If you can scan or take a photo of your own work,  give it a shot: draw your conception of his boat and scan it in. Might be a hoot?

They are coming out here at 10:30, cross everything you've got they can fix what ails this BRAND NEW computer, and I can scan in my hilarious boat. I love love love the description here. But I loved Robinson Crusoe, too.

[kidsal]

CORMORANT:  κορμορανοσ

I don't understand what line you want me to scan???

Why did Homer wait to bring Odysseus into the story?  Believe it was to set up suspense.  Will Odysseus make it home in time to save Penelope?  Will Telemachus find his father?

Question -- why did Hermes tell Calypso that Zeus sent him against his will??

Feminist complaint?  Gods may mate with mortals but they begrudge goddesses this right.

[ginny]

I think JoanK identified it as l. 54 ff. In Murray it's right before Hermes went to see Calypso: On to Pieria he stepped (this is beginning with 49) from the upper air and swooped upon the sea, and then sped over the waves like a bird, the cormorant, which in quest of fish over the frightening gulfs of the unresting sea wets its thick plumage in the salt water.

The simile there? LIKE a bird? If you can, thank you so much. I simply cannot.

I note here that Murray is not saying it flies and watches and swoops along but rather only that it wets its plumage which it would do if it sat in the water and dived. Maybe it's the rest of the translation which are at fault?

I guess it's also possible if Homer were blind that he did not know what a bird did but went by descriptions?

[Babi]

   I love Calypso’s  island.  Woods, birds,  a fireplace smelling of cedar and thyme,  grapevines,  clear springs,  the sea.    With some books, I could happily spend a month there.

    It is clear that while their may be gods, there is one supreme God.  Hermes  is quite clear on that. 
“But it is not to be thought of--and no use--for any god to  elude the will of Zeus.” 

  Calypso’s tirade, when told she must give up Odysseus, is interesting.  She makes a point I hadn’t recognized before.  As much as Zeus/Jupiter played around, fathering children all over the place,  there was little tolerance for the love affairs of other gods with mortals.  She points  to two  examples.  Were there others?   If so, why this hypocrisy?   Is Zeus the only one allowed to indulge himself?

[kidsal]

According to Temple U's timeline we are in day 31 of the adventure at end of Book V.


POPE’S TRANSLATION
The god who mounts the winged winds
Fast to his feet the golden pinions binds
That high through fields of air his flight sustain
O’er the wide earth, and o’er the boundless main.
He grasps the wand that causes sleep to fly,
Or in soft slumber seals the wakeful eye:
Then shoots from heaven to high Pieria’s steep,
And stoops incumbent on the rolling deep.
So watery  fowl, that seek their fishy food,
With wings expanded, o’er the foaming flood,
Now sailing smooth the level surface sweep,
Now dip their pinions in the briny deep:
Thus o’er the world of waters Hermes flew,
Till now the distant island rose in view;

[ginny]

Man o man, I hope this is visible, it's taken me an hour and a half on my tiny little travel computer with no photo editing software and NO FTP. Boy photobucket has become quite the run around, can anybody see this? This is the line wanted I hope about the cormorant?



Also you may like to see this, it's another Trojan Horse, this one from the Latin 300 class, I just found it and it may conform more to our ideas of what the Trojan Horse looked like:

[Frybabe]

I can see it fine, Ginny, except that I can't read Greek.

I think that is a marvelous passage Kidsal.

I can feel Calypso's pain at having to send Odysseus on his way.

[sandyrose]

Deb...I am using E.V. Rieu (initial translation 1946) revised translation by D.C.H. Rieu, 1991, 2003
and Lombardo 2000

and the revised Rieu translation regarding the birds says...
...swooped down on the sea, and skimmed the waves like a sea-gull drenching the feathers of its wings with spray as it pursues the fish down fearsome troughs of the unharvested deep.  So Hermes rode wave after wave.......

And speaking of cranes, the sandhill cranes are back. Spring is near.

JoanK says..

"shorebirds" is the name of several families of birds that include sandpipers, and their larger relatives. Sandpipers do not nest in trees. What do the other translations say?

My revised Rieu.. The cave was sheltered by a copse of alders and fragrant cypresses, which was the roosting place of wide-winged birds, horned owls and falcons and cormorants with long tongues, birds of the coast, whose business takes them down to the sea.

[roshanarose]

ginny - Thanks for the Greek (I think ).  I have made no attempt to make this a pretty verse, all I have done is translated the words quite literally.  Anyway, it reads something like this:

"rapidly upon the wave(s) a bird resembling a (ravenous sea bird; gull or cormorant)in/before the terrible/wondrous swelling salt wasteland."

I looked more closely into My Lexicon and the first entry told me that λάρως (laros) means gull; the second entry, same word means ravenous sea bird; gull or cormorant.  Go figure.  Unless the second entry is meant to be it more "poetic". 

Let me say I stand in awe of the first person who translated Homer into English!  I think it was a medieval monk bent over his desk, sitting on one of those stools, his eyes completely ruined.  I am similar, only I bet the monk didn't have to do the housework, attend to emails, do the washing and then go shopping . 

If anyone would like to check out their lexicons and find more elegant ways of writing this, please do so.

[BarbStAubrey]

Whew get tied up for a few days and there is a ton of posts to review - SXSW and the Rodeo are both in town - both groups include many investors with political influence - the Mortgage lender I work with is working on getting a new Texas Mortgage Guarantee Corporation and so, we were all over the place meeting and getting proposals into helpful hands - plus, the Texas Book Festival committee called to help them man their SXSW room at the Hyatt for a few hours - then on top of it the Save the Deer group had a meeting on Saturday - needless to say, Odysseus and Penelope and their saga was last on my mind - all that to explain that this group requires a bit more than an off the top of your head remark to respond and so now it is catch up time.

Let me work backwards - Birds...

According to 'An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols' they are the symbol for Transcendence; the soul; a spirit; divine manifestation; spirits or the gods; spirits of the dead; ascent ot heaven; ability to communicate with gods or enter into a higher stat of consciousness; thought; imagination.

Large birds are identified with solar; thunder and wind gods; their tongues are lightening. Birds are a feature of tree symbolism; the divine power descends into the tree or on  to its symbol, a pillar. E.G. Two birds in a tree, sometimes one is dark and one light, are dualism, darkness and light, night and day, the unmanifest and the manifest. Birds frequently accompany the Hero on his quest, giving him secret adviste (the little bird told me)

Flights of birds are omens - to understand the omen is to communicate with celestial powers, (talking to angles) The ability to understand the language of birds symbolizes heavenly communication. Flocks of birds are magic or supernatural powers connected with gods or heroes. The direction of a flock of birds is an omen.

Raven - is a talking bird hence prophecy; either solar or darkness of evil, as wisdom or destruction of war. Greek longevity, sacred to Helios/Apollo, a messenger of the son god; also an attribute of Athene, Cronos, and Aesculapius, invoked at weddings as fertility. In Orphic art the raven of death is depicted with the pine cone and torch of life and light.

Peacocksacred to Hera, the protector of marriage and takes special care of married women.

Vulture, symbol of Ares, God of War.

Owl, Athena, goddess of the city, handicrafts, agriculture; invented the bridle; trumpet; flute; the pot; the rake, plow, yoke; the ship, chariot;  embodiment of wisdom, reason, and purity.

Apollo, god of music, playing a golden lyre. The Archer, far shooting with a silver bow.; god of healing, taught man medicine; god of light; god of truth, (can not speak a lie). His tree was the laurel. The crow his bird. The dolphin his animal.

Aphrodite, goddess of love, desire and beauty. Her tree is the myrtle. The dove, the swann, and the sparrow her birds.

Artemis, goddess of the hunt, lady of wild things.

Sirens, Birds with women's heads.

 A nice web page about Birds in Mythology

[roshanarose]

Hi Barb - Busy girl.  Did that book say anything about cormorants?

[BarbStAubrey]

Whooops saw  your post after the fact - cormorants follow

This web site includes many of the ancient texts as well as others who have gleaned bits and pieces that make up the so called history of the time since it all comes from stories that as archaeologists uncover hundreds of years of soil they are piecing together a different story and time frame than the oldest of texts tell us - most of the early history is based on Homer which is a story and so far no one has been able to connect the dots that suggest it is factual -  

Sacred Texts Archive: the Classics

In this site there is an article accompanying one of these ancient books - sorry I was into all this last Friday and I just cannot remember which - but the author of the article wrote it in I believe 1809 and his scholarship included work on the gods associated with stars as well as the calendar - at the time Homer using to tell his story there was no knowledge of months or the years - they did know seasons and the four cardinal points - they did not understand how to sail from place to place using stars for direction -

To find a fishing ground they lined up landmarks, such as a near rock against a distant point on land; doing that in two directions gave location on the surface of the sea. They took 'sounding' using a lead and line. From Herodotus in the 4th B.C."When you get 11 fathoms and ooze on the lead, you are a day's journey out from Alexandria."   The Greeks navigated from one island to the next in their archipelago, a Greek word meaning "preëminent sea." - They may have followed clouds (which form over land) or odors (which can carry far out to sea).

Here is a link to an early Trojan horse on a pot from 670 BC which is after Homer's time frame Pot with Trojan Horse

I have been trying to get a picture in my mind of these people - learning that a comb was often a teasel I am thinking how do you get these picture-perfect folks and statues of goddesses with flowing hair when they used a teasel as a comb. Now there are plants that can act as soap but did they have any knowledge of how to make soap I wonder - shampoo?!? OK we read of oils but oil on the scalp in the heat? hmmm ...

I did learn that the ground being so rocky meant little to no farming - that scrub land is fine for cattle and therefore, the emphasis we read about animals - so many, they are used for sacrifice - they seem to be the mainstay of the feasts that are prepared at the drop of a hat.