Author Topic: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1  (Read 85083 times)

JoanP

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Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« on: March 30, 2011, 01:39:58 PM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.


Major Pettigrew's Last Stand  by Helen Simonson

April Book Club Online  

"When Major Pettigrew, a retired British army major in a small English village, embarks on an unexpected friendship with the widowed Mrs. Ali, who runs the local shop, trouble erupts to disturb the bucolic serenity of the village and of the Major’s carefully regimented life.
 
"As the Major and Mrs. Ali discover just how much they have in common, including an educated background and a shared love of books, they must struggle to understand what it means to belong and how far the obligations of family and tradition can be set aside for personal freedom. Meanwhile, the village itself, lost in its petty prejudices and traditions, may not see its own destruction coming."  New York Times  (best seller)

"...a wry and witty love story set in a little English village where small town prejudices, and race and religious intolerances are alive and well. With gentle insight, the author captures the thrill of falling in love after 60 and the disruption romance can introduce into a well-settled life."

Discussion Schedule:

April 1-7 ~ Chapters 1-6
April 8 - April 15 ~ Chapters 7-12
(E-readers ~ Last lines in Chapter 6:
 ..."his sandwich seemed as appetizing  now as two rubber mats filled with horsehair.  He pushed the plate away and signaled Tom to bring another lager.")
 
*****
Some Topics for Consideration
April 1-7~ Chapters 1 - 6

1.  Some of you have commented on H. Simonson's beautiful writing.  What is it about her writing style that you find so pleasing?

2. How do their differences make the Major and Mrs. Ali an unlikely pair?  What is their common attraction?

3. What do the Churchills represent to the Major so that he struggles with Marjorie’s legal claim to the guns? What in the Major’s mind, would he be selling if the guns were sold to the highest bidder?

4. There are differences in how families keep or dispose of their departed loved one's possessions. How did you or your family members make the choice? How did you feel using something your loved one held as special?

5 What are the Major's feelings for his son?  Do you think he's fair in his interpretation of Roger's motives and actions?

6. What sort of subtle prejudices or stereotyping do you find in these opening chapters?




   
  Discussion Leaders:  Barbara & JoanP


BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 05:07:33 PM »
Have you stopped smiling yet ? The Buffalo news says, the book is "Playful yet affecting" and I couldn't agree more - and like you, I am ready to play and be affected as we discuss this charming love story -  

Welcome - I would invite you to consider a cup of tea at your elbow while we discuss this story - However, it appears there are all sorts of drinks served during events described in the Major's story - and so make yourself comfortable with your beverage of choice and let's start.

Like many of you, I too have completely read the book and  yet, some among us will be reading chapter by chapter according to the weeks discussion and so please, let's try to keep our observations within the chapters we are/have discussed.

I must say the words used in many descriptions of this book include that it is a love story and that fits a broader description of love - we think of a romantic love story between two folks - and  yet, Major Pettigrew's Last Stand includes many love stories.  Love that at times is challenged or strained, romanticized and love that acknowledges loss. There is love for the land, the village, a way of life, traditional activities, cultural values; love between father and sons, mother and daughter, husband and wife, brothers, young modern love, even the love between landed gentry. The story includes unselfish love for family members as well as, the gentle love between old friends and golfing buddies.  

Well together we will be adding to the tradition of love as we share with each other our thoughts and our own experiences as we read together this well crafted book. I am really excited - I do not remember last enjoying a book so much that I truly looked forward to reading it again.  

Hurrah in advance to your posts and please, remember, as you read if a question for the author pops into your head jot it down and bring it here so we can have an appropriate list that will bring about a good discussion with Helen Simonson on April 11.

“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 09:17:31 AM »
Oh I agree with Barbara - "hurrah in advance for your posts."  As individuals we see things others have glossed right over.  These discussions are always so enlightening as we pool our ideas.  

In the prediscussion there was  talk of Helen Simonson's "beautiful writing." I always like to watch the writer as s/he weaves a tale.  I've been thinking of this author's style while reading the first chapters. Am really looking forward to hearing from you - a bit more specifically.  What is it about her writing style that draws you into the story from the git-go?

To echo Barbara - a great  big welcome to every one of you!

Frybabe

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 07:08:21 PM »
I've read as far as chapter 3 so far. Two things I want to comment on so far. One is that I immediately like these two; they are readers. Major Pettigrew with his "book lined living room" and Mrs. Ali, who has her book with her while waiting for the Major.

The other is a link to Corfe Castle, briefly mentioned on p5. Can't help it, I like castles. http://www.corfecastle.net/

CallieOK

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 08:18:28 PM »
X     Marking my spot until I get the book tomorrow and begin rereading to refresh my memory so I can respond to the questions.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 08:26:11 PM »
owww thanks for the link to the Corfe Castle Frybabe - lovely, just lovely - Looking forward to you posts Callie - I need to curl up for a bit tonight and refresh myself in these first few chapters - no tea tonight - I have a bottle of wine I opened last week and that is what it will be.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 06:05:47 AM »
I love the writing. She has such a gift with just the right phrase at the right time.
I am amazed in the book at the rudeness of the Majors son.. What a horrible person. He simply does not see any view but his own and he must realize that his father has opinions too. They just dont seem to count.. I am glad that my grown sons respect me as a human and dont try to assume that what they want is right and what I want doesnt count.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

salan

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 07:00:29 AM »
Yeah!  I'm here and am looking forward to this discussion.  Will post more later.
Sally

marjifay

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 07:36:24 AM »
This book did not immediately pull me in.  I was almost ready to return it to the library after the first couple of chapters.  Did not care for any of the characters, especially the Major's son, his girlfriend, and the Major's sister in law Marjorie.  But as I read on it became a bit more interesting.  I will stay with it for a while. It makes an easy read between John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman which I just finished and Wolf Hall which I am still reading.

I like Mrs. Ali and it was sad to hear her tell of her father's huge library of  books being sold or burned up after his death by her uncles.

I have not read any biographical info on the author.  Wonder if she has any friends/neighbors who are Pakistani.  She seems to understand the people.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

marjifay

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 08:09:40 AM »
Question 4.. There are differences in how families keep or dispose of their departed loved one's possessions. How did you or your family members make the choice? How did you feel using something your loved one held as special?

In their wills, my parents disinherited one of my brothers because he was gay.  My other brother and I simply disregarded that part of the will and shared our inheritance with our gay sibling.

Marj

"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2011, 09:15:40 AM »
It's all here.  The loss of a spouse, loneliness, the uncertainty and frustrations of age and the children who patronize.  The Major "mumbles."  I like the major, I understand the major.  And when he meets Mrs. Ali, who loves to read and they can discuss books he finds a companion and wants to see more of her.  Of course, he does!    She has a dreadful nephew, who being a Middle Eastener believes he is the decision maker in the family, the one and only boss.  I wonder if his attitude will change as the book continues.

HI MARJ.  How very sad for your family that your parents had an "attitude" towards your gay brother; understandable though.  In their era and, possibly, due to religion, it was sinful.  We have come a long way to understanding differences.


JoanP

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2011, 09:24:57 AM »
It's April!  April Fools' Day!  For those just joining us, the book cover that you see in the heading was taken from the 1924  April edition of  Life Magazine - What do you see on the cover?
It was called "April Fool" - can you tell why?  I wonder if Helen Simonson is aware of this title?

Marjifay, I love the idea...wonder how many "heirs"  disregard wills and share as your siblings did!  Somehow I don't think Marjorie is going to be quite as generous with the Major, do you?  

I too found the story itself a bit slow-going in these opening chapters - it was Simonson's writing that I found engaging.  Steph speaks of her use of just the right phrase at the right time.  I agree!  Those metaphors especially.  Did you note any in particular?

I love the way she is portraying the characters. Throught the eyes of the other characters.  I'm going to say this, knowing how you feel about Roger - I'm not so sure he is quite as bad as his father sees him...but what exactly has he done?   Or not done?

We were posting together, Ella!  I "get"  the Major too - but don't quite see him as a romantic match for Mrs. Ali yet.  As a friend, perhaps. Do we know her name?  I'd better run - late, as usual!  But I could stay here all day!

Looking  forward to your comments...Beware the April Fool!


marjifay

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2011, 10:27:38 AM »
It's April!  April Fools' Day!  For those just joining us, the book cover that you see in the heading was taken from the 1924  April edition of  Life Magazine - What do you see on the cover?
It was called "April Fool" - can you tell why?  I wonder if Helen Simonson is aware of this?

Very good, Joan!  Looks like a man and woman embracing, until you see it's a coat rack.  Looks like it might have been from a Norman Rockwell painting.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2011, 10:55:51 AM »
That April Fool cover sure had us going for awhile didn't it - wasn't it Ella that said something that tipped us off - that was funny how none of us were that observant.

And yes Joan - the writing - I love looking closer at the sentences while reading this the second time - there are some very lyrical sentences sprinkled throughout each chapter - and for me bang, right off the bat there was a word I was not sure of either its meaning or its pronunciation. Sorta got it as it was used in the sentence but "Senescence" is not a word I can ever remember hearing or seeing used before. I never would have guessed the last bit was emphasized and pronounced like cents.

Steph she does have a way with words doesn't she - I loved it - this one caught my eye immediately on the first page..."low, accented roundness of her voice when they discussed the texture and perfume of the teas she blended specially for him." Oh my - how sensuous is that.

And then on the next page to take such a hackneyed thought and convert it into a beautiful sentence. "The dawn chorus had still been chattering in the giant yew against the west wall of the cottage, the sky pink, when the telephone rang."

OH dear Marj - that is sad and colors the memory of a loved one doesn't it - it looks like your family was given a struggle that y'all needed, to find the silver threads of love and goodness under the tarnish.  Has to be there or everyone would not have hung together to include the brother. I'm thinking that kind of loyalty and affection did not come out of the blue, it had to be taught.

Marj my guess is if Helen Simonson spent her childhood in Britain she would have had a close window to the Pakistani culture - I haven't been in the past few years but I was a regular for awhile taking in the shows and when I was teaching Needlework traveling all over England and Wales to see museum collections. Then, there were not many Pakistani families in the villages but already, whole swathes of London were centers of Pakistani culture. What was great being in London over Christmas at least the Pakistani stores and restaurants were open

Isn't there a saying that the English are a nation of shopkeepers - looks like those from the east add to the notion.

Sally hope you are enjoying the read AND hope you are feeling better - are your bruises still visible?

Ella, YES...  :D on everything you said in  your post - Does your book have an interview in the back with the Random House Reader's Circle? Mine does and I love her statement about toning down rhetoric, which must have been on her mind since she wrote her story with such a 'Civil' tone.

You moved didn't you from the house you lived in most of your married life - did you have a difficult time letting go of things? I only had a few things that belonged to my son, including a small oriental carpet and would you believe an old piano that needed work along with a few baskets that he intended to bring back with him the next time - they are still as he left them in the storage room off the garage but what is precious to me is, I have a few of his books that were in his house in New Mexico. I like to feel them from time to time. And I notice my good friend, Charlotte often throws over her shoulders when she fills the bird feeders a heavy flannel shirt that belonged to Bill.  

This is going to be a great month I am looking forward to reading something that will make me laugh and even shed a tear but will not be filled with some horrific events.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

jane

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2011, 01:35:35 PM »
Quote
Does your book have an interview in the back with the Random House Reader's Circle? Mine does and I love her statement about toning down rhetoric, which must have been on her mind since she wrote her story with such a 'Civil' tone.

Although this was not asked of me, my library book does not. It ends with a page and a half of Acknowledgements and then a paragraph About the Author.


Quote
How do their differences make the Major and Mrs. Ali an unlikely pair?

Mrs. Ali appears to me to be a thoughtful, kind woman.  The Major, however, seems to me to be very "stiff upper lip,"  old fuddy-duddy / stern.  His views on how he felt Roger should have been raised, his views of Roger's life now, seem out of touch with the reality of the world today

jane

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 02:03:32 PM »
ahh Jane too bad it in not in your copy - the interview is a nice plus however my paperback edition was only  purchased a couple of weeks ago and they may have added it along with the Random house Reading Group questions and  topics for discussion.

Jane, tip - link in the heading - here it is - Churchill Method: Rules of Shooting and read the remarks about the book written by Ken Gartrell, especially the list he includes in his post and then think of the Major - can you see the similarity  ;) - I guess we would call it a metaphor - I love it - it is a great bit of writing and it makes me smile as I think of this proper British Major retired - in his wife's penny [housecoat] ;)  :D
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

pedln

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 05:54:07 PM »
Barbara, what an excellent point -- the writings in the Churchill Book

Quote
It matters far less how well you shoot than how well you behave. Hunting is a universal pleasure. Regardless of social class, shooters are true gentlemen.


Roger is not a bad sort underneath, but I think the Major finds him lacking in gentlemanly behavior.  Showing up late, after the funeral, and the fact that Roger was putting his work plans ahead of committment to family.  Also, I think the Major is appalled at Roger's extravagances -- the ostrich couch, for instance.  The sweet little boy has not turned into the young man the Major expected.

And what about Sandy -- "Ernest?"  Does anyone ever call the Major "Ernest?"  What a jolt to his good breeding.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 07:03:13 PM »
Oh pedln I am so glad you caught it - yes, yes, yes, we are not a hunting society here - and less so are we wingshoot hunters - so that it was easy for most of us to overlook the real importance of this gun - but the more you see the Churchills mentioned in this story the more important the Churchill method of shooting is an analogy to the story - it is so much fun to see the story from that point of view.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

marjifay

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 10:09:58 PM »
I'm not much interested in guns, hunting, or teapots, so I'll probably not finish this book.  But when they were talking about going to the Duke's (Double D--what's that?) pond and shooting those cute little ducks they'd raised for the purpose,  it reminded me of my dad and the one little duck that frequented the small pond on our farm in Iowa.  My dad's joke, tongue-in-cheek, was that he could hardly wait till hunting season started so he could blast that little duck off our pond. 

Our neighbor liked to shoot and eat pheasant and did so, even in the off-season.  So that their little girl would not give them away to the sheriff (it was a small town), he never spoke of "pheasants" but always called them  "stubble-ducks." 

Is Jemima a common name in England?  It reminds me of the pancake lady, except I think that one liked to smile.

Marj
"Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill."  Barbara Tuchman

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 10:41:19 PM »
Do you have any legal heads in your family Marj - what do you think of his attitude on not dragging the Pettigrew name through the courts? Sounds like he and Bertie had a pretty good shared childhood that changed over time with their respective marriages.

Love the name of the Solicitors - they sound like they should be in a novel by Dickens "Tewkesbury and Teale" and then he is referred to as, "Old Mr. Twekesbury" how much fun.

Another word I do not remember ever seeing before - "oleaginous" - does anyone do crossword puzzles? The Major sees the word in the Sunday Times Crossword puzzle.

Another great turn of phrase -  "...had squatted like a well-fed cuckoo in the midst of the Twekesbury clan" and the "strawberry-pink villa full of accountants" what a happy mix of  pictures - we usually think of accountants in dark brown or grey - Helen Simonson must have a twinkle in her eye.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 11:03:25 PM »
Marj don't you think the story is making Ferguson into the loud crass businessman into Real Estate that is the typical characterization in a cartoon and since the Lord's name starts with a D  - Lord Dagenham - the double D is a take off on Dallas, the American TV series that involved a large piece of land - that way Ferguson can make his company appear small in comparison so that Lord Dagenham can appear more important - 'Land versus Money' so that Ferguson can be "oleaginous". ;) I used it - I used it -  :D

Unless, someone has another thought - maybe I missed Lord Dagenham's first name and he is a double D - However, Ferguson sure lays it on thick doesn't he in the next bit trying to make himself seem the lowly and rough, bricks and mortar kind of guy.

So different than the Major who fantasizes seeing Kipling walking on the promenade and reading Keats, Wordsworth and Samuel Johnson from his own library.

Don't you think it is fascinating that a young women could write about mature men's thinking as well as Helen Simonson has in this story? I wonder how she does  that?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2011, 06:12:30 AM »
Since the book is on my IPAD, I dont know about interviews, etc until I finish the book.. I dont like shooting, but the description of the guns was quite interesting.. It does seem to me that the Major resented his parents decision to split the guns. As the older, he seems to have believed he was the rightful owner.. The son simply amazes me,, why would he think his father should give him the money from an inheritance..
Simonson is young>> Now that is surprising. I was thinking more of a woman in her mid 40's or so..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

rosemarykaye

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2011, 07:45:40 AM »
Hello,

Sorry I am joining in so late - and I'm not sure that I will be able to stick with it, as we move from Aberdeenshire to Edinburgh tomorrow, and will be staying in husband's rented flat until we find somewhere to buy - flat has no real internet (occasionally get signal from upstairs!), so my only access will be when I go to the local library.

Having been brought up in England - even if not in a village - I find all of Simonsons' descriptions completely convincing.  The solicitors' firm in the pink building reminds me of so many small country towns, where professionals have set up in lovely old houses -Saffron Walden, in Essex, is a particular example as any of the houses there are different colours, very pretty, but it happens everywhere:

http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Essex/Saffron_Walden/pictures/1129452.

  The name of the firm is absolutely typical of many, many law firms - there used to be one in Cambridge, where I trained, called Few & Kester - locally known as Queue & Fester, as it was a shade fuddy-duddy.

I also find the portrayal of the major very accurate - there are so many retired army men who are just like him.  Even the apron is just right.

As Barb has already said, there are huge Pakistani populations in the UK.  Some have been here for generations.  Some adhere very strictly to their Muslim beliefs, the women are covered from top to toe and walk behind the men, etc - there are still far too many "honour killings" when a girl runs away to avoid an arranged marriage - but others are much more "westernised".  Meera Syal, who is an English born Pakistani comedian and writer, has written a good book about her childhood in the Pakistani community in (I think) Yorkshire - it's called "Anita and Me".

England may have been a nation of shopkeepers (I think that is attributed to Napoleon?) but these days almost every corner shop or convenience store is run by Pakistanis or Indians.   I think the reason for this is that they are prepared to work very hard indeed, and to keep open very long hours, to make a go of things - which they generally do.  In the village that I lived in in rural Aberdeenshire some years ago, there was a village shop run by a late middle aged Scottish couple who had taken it on, as so many people do, as some sort of retirement project.  It was a miserable place, as the wife in particular seemed to resent you asking for anything - no matter what time I went in (and they were only open quite short hours) I was interrupting her soup making, hair washing, housework or whatever.  They did not make you feel at all welcome.  In the end they shut the shop, which was the only shop in the village, because they said it did not pay - but the reason for that was their attitude to everyone.  Most Pakistani and Indian shops are much more welcoming and obliging, will get stuff in for you, deliver it, etc.

I don't think Mrs Ali's nephew is a bad person - I feel he's much more caught up by the rules of his own culture.  He feels obliged to be the "man in charge" because Mrs Ali has no husband.

I also don't see Roger as a bad person.  Again, he is a person caught up in what he thinks are society's expectations of him - to be financially successful, fit in with the social climbers who want to go on shoots, etc because they think it makes them look upper class.  In this area - Deeside - lots of the estates have pheasant shoots, and the salmon fishing is also very popular.  The people who come up to do it like to think they are joining the landed gentry - of course they aren't!  The landed gentry - like Lord whatever he is called in the novel - are all on their uppers and need to pander to the whims of overpaid bankers, etc from London, because they need their money.  They will never be admitted to the inner circle of the local aristocracy.

 I know that Roger sounds money grabbing when he asks the major for money upfront, but I think many children are in this position - they feel, rightly or wrongly, desperate for money to get on the property ladder or whatever, and they see their parents sitting in valuable property (often far too large and expensive to heat) or hanging onto money.  It's not surprising that they feel this way, when society seems to value people - at  least in the UK - by the house that they have, the car that they drive, etc.  Roger is just as oppressed in his way as Mrs Ali's nephew.

Marjifay - Jemima isn't a common name exactly, but it is one of those Victorian names (viz Beatrix Potter's Jemima Puddleduck) that is coming back into fashion, perhaps more especially amongst the upper middle classes - a bit like Ruby, Mabel, Maud, Violet, etc.  My daughter is 16 and she used to have a school friend called Jemima.  Marj, do stick with the book, it's not all twee teapots, or hunting - there is a real story underneath, and it develops as you go along.

Rosemary

marjifay

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2011, 11:17:52 AM »
Oh dear, just when I was ready to send this book back to the library, along comes Rosemary with such an interesting post that put me in the mood to continue.   I, too, am "in my uppers" LOL (love that expression).  Interesting how you explained the motives of Roger and Mrs. Ali's nephew.  Makes them more human.  I loved your description of the Scottish couple who couldn't make a go of their shop because they definitely were not customer-oriented!  Can't imagine a shop keeper who resented being asked for something!  Funny, but sad.  I will look for that book by Meera Syal. 

Marj
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CallieOK

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2011, 11:27:08 AM »
Rosemary,  Good luck with the move.  Thank you for the information; I'll miss your wonderful explanations of how the characters/scenes relate to the "real world".

Marj, thank you for commenting that you didn't care for the book.  You motivated me to say I wasn't really impressed the first time I read it.
Hoping for some "Aha" moments as I try to see the characters - and, particularly, the writing style - through the eyes of more interpretive readers than I.   :)

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2011, 11:33:58 AM »
Marji!  Good!  Good!  Good!  I just knew you would find much to like in this book - Listen to Callie!  I too was turned off at the description of the ducklings trained to come at the sound of the whistle and then lured into the hurnters' path to be shot down as sport.  But that's not the heart of the story.  Thanks to Rosemary's post, you decided to hang on to the book a bit longer.  I promise you, you will not regret it!

Rosemary - don't know how you manage with the move and all, but so happy that you were able to find some time for this discussion - your English background adds to our understanding and enjoyment. Thank you so much!  Hopefully you will be able to get a signal on April 11 when the author comes here to visit with us.  She plans to be here at 11 am, EST. to answer questions.  If you are unable to be here, not to worry.  We'll keep a list of questions that arise from this discussion in the heading  for her consideration .  If there is anything you'd like her to address, please post here and we'll add your questions to the link in the header

I sense shades of Barbara Pym in the village ladies, as they try to match Grace, the only single woman in the crowd, with the Major.  Loved Simonson's descripton of the poor woman, as related by the Major after the "date" ..
"she "looked as ruched and tied as a holiday pork roast."
Oh my, the writing.  Doesn't it make you feel so sorry for the woman?  We will hear more about Grace as the story goes on, but she is doomed by the advice from the village ladies, isn't she?  If only she had ignored the ladies, I sense the Major may have been interested in her.


Do you know if Edgecombe St. Mary is a real place?  Or the seaside town of Hazelbourne-on-sea?  When I search, I keep coming up with references to Helen Simonson's story, so I'm assuming these are fictitious names.  Thanks for the picture of Saffron-Walden. Something to envision as we read.


JoanP

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2011, 11:41:33 AM »
Barbara asks: Don't you think it is fascinating that a young women could write about mature men's thinking as well as Helen Simonson has in this story? I wonder how she does  that? Shall we include this question for her, Barbara?

Steph, about Helen Simonson's age -   When inviting her to join our discussion, I asked her how she came to understand the mind of a 68 year old man so well - whether the Major was based on someone she knew.  (She didn't respond to that question but here is what she did say -
 "I am 47 and I simply refused to think that the Major would think any differently just because he is twenty years older.  I assume I will be the same sould at 90 that I was at 29, though perhaps a bit smarter. "

What do you think?  I'm not quite so sure I agree with her. Do you think the Major was much the same person twenty years ago?

So many good thoughts expressed in the opening day excitement.  Please come back, everyone.  Your observations are adding so much to the discussion. I would love to hear more about the attraction between Mrs. Ali (will she remain Mrs. Ali throughout the story?  Mrs. Ali and the Major?)  I don't understand what she sees in him.  I know, I know, she knows that he reads books.  She is sympathetic because he has just lost his brother.  Is there anything else?   He likes the sound of her voice, her laugh...he thinks  "it sounds like singing." - But what does she see in him?. Does she pity him?  Is he sick - what do you think is wrong with him?

Back this evening.  Love hearing from you!

pedln

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2011, 12:40:14 PM »
Quote
I was thinking more of a woman in her mid 40's or so..
Somewhere it said she was 46.  Young is in the eyes of the beholder.  I think my crew or 40 and 50 somethings are young.  But they’ve been young for a long time.

Quote
It does seem to me that the Major resented his parents decision to split the guns. As the older, he seems to have believed he was the rightful owner..

Yes, Steph, and I’m thinking maybe Bertie had a few resentments of his own regarding the inheritance.  I thought it interesting, the Major’s explanation to Nancy about the inheritance  laws (what’s the legal term?) and why they were important.

Regarding Roger – perhaps he’s more his mother’s boy than his father’s son.  I think that Nancy was not held to defined ways of society.

JoanP, I just saw your posts now.  I'm not sure I would agree with Simonson about  thinking the same in 20 years.  That's almost like saying that nothing is going to influence over a 20-year period.  Will have to ponder that a bit more.

Good luck with the move Rosemary, and as always for your marvellous and very pertinent input. Re:  the names.  I'm glad to see Ruby is making a comeback in the UK.  And here too, as my youngest grand (age 4) is Ruby, after her great-grandmother. (Her mother had to decide between Nana and Aunt Violet.) I haven't seen any young Mauds or Mabel yet.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2011, 01:33:57 PM »
Thank you so much Rosemary for helping us have a better picture of the life represented in this story - I would never have guessed the colorful houses as an ordinary part of the English landscape - it does sound cheery and fun. Having the photo of how the houses look painted these Birthday cupcake colors helps - I wonder if neighbors get together and decide their color choices - Joan thanks for uploading the photo for us - it also prettied up the page  :)

Rosemary I was particularly pleased to hear your interpretation of Roger, the Major's son - even the niece, Marjorie's daughter sounds as if they have little respect for their respective parents - later, in the story I thought Roger becomes a sympathetic character however, the green eyes over parent's lifetime accumulations maybe understandable in the competitive society they live but is sure is not how most of the older generation thought they were raising their children. That, and the flagrant lack of concern for what the older generation  assumed were manner set in stone sure is jarring.

Having only completed a 2 day class on working with the senior's selling or buying homes we were divided into age groups with a full day devoted to understanding the 'differences'  between how the various age groups operate, their attitude about money, possessions, responsibility etc.  Amazing to learn those who are very technologically savvy with an attitude that life should include a large amount of play are the  generations who in many ways think like and understand those over age 67. This is the generation that has accumulated the fastest the most wealth and delay marriage - this is the group who are under the age of 30 where as, for various reasons the two groups between feel overwhelmed with responsibility and would like the assistance that money can bring as well as, feeling they, like Mrs. Ali's  nephew, should be in charge of their parents. Having your picture of that in this story is certainly a thought provoker. Thanks...

Marj it is hard to read how we treat animals as play things - it is different when we needed the hunt to provide food or, as we know, we need the hunt to manage the size of the animals population since we have taken away all the natural predictors and it is cruel to animals to allow them to over populate - I am so glad you see other aspects of the story and that Rosemary's post was such a help.

Rosemary your story of the older couple who purchased the small grocery in their retirement was almost the same story of the store in my daughter's small town. Charlie, the owner was a living icon, well loved and when he passed away a newly retired couple purchased the store that still had a section left by Charlie with the 1920's and 30's products as a museum and tribute to his father - everyone was saddened that the new owner got rid of most of it and they also were unfriendly, gruff acting put upon. So with modern transportation more folks drove the 20 minutes to the next town and these folks in just over a year closed the store.

Steph so you have chosen to read this on your Ipad - do they offer links to enlarge on the story like the photo that Joan uploaded for us or, is it because the story is on a device where the Internet is at your beck and call that it is easy to stop as you read and research something? I noticed a few folks sitting in the library last week reading on their Ipad or Kindle or Nook and they all had smiles on their faces. I am thinking it is because they are getting a kick over using a new technical devise not imagined a few years ago. Does the devise allow you to scoot back and forth breezing through the entire book before settling in for the read with chapter one?

Callie I sure hope you do have a couple of those aha moments - for me I have already had one with Rosemary's explanation of the thinking of Roger keeping up with the competitive life of his generation.

Joan you did it - wonderful - the author will be visiting on April 11 at 11:  - let's see - in the mid-West that would be at 10: CDT and the Mountains states it would be 9:  and the West coast will still have their coffee in hand at 8:  - is Scotland 6 hours ahead of the East coast? With daylight savings it gets all mixed up - but assuming so maybe 5: BST in the evening would be the time to turn on the computer???

Joan you picked up on Grace - she seems like a by-product of the typical English village story doesn't she - in many ways she and the Major seem to have more in common than the Major and Mrs. Ali - Grace does know roses - at this point in the story they all are fitting a stereotype that as the story goes on maybe that will become the tug and pull setting us up for the climax.



“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Ella Gibbons

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2011, 01:44:36 PM »
What good posts, so fun to read!  

The cottages - how many rooms do you imagine are contained in one of the two-story cottages.  So colorful, so pretty.  Do they just  hose them down now and then to keep them so clean?  Is that middle structure in the picture an overhead garage door?  

I have a question about a village; how it is designated a village?  Is it by population?  I'm curious because when we moved in 1961 from the city, we bought a house in a "village" and it was so classified because it had less than 3000 people.  When it moved past that figure - and too quickly it seemed to us - it became a city and now is about 50,000 population.

When I read about the Major's disappointment over not inheriting the gun from his brother,  I felt he was being a bit foolish.  What does he think is going to happen to the guns when he is gone?  Will Roger inherit and keep them in the family?  Unless Roger improves his relationship with his father, I wouldn't trust him with the guns, would you?

As many of you have said, guns are not too popular - well, I should say - in parts of America.  As I thought about what I was typing I remember all the hullaboloo over gun control by the NRA.  Our right to bear arms!  We've heard that enough haven't we?






BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2011, 01:45:23 PM »
Just saw your post Pedln - Nancy is interesting - part of me thinks it is so easy to make a deceased loved one into our own  image of who they were. So I am not clear on Nancy - but I thought it endearing the battle the Major had over using the tea cups that he remembered and associated with Nancy. I have a table cloth and my Grandmother's china that I use when we have Thanksgiving or a family meal in November and I can never to this day start the meal without saying something about my Grandmother - I can see her hands smoothing out the cloth when she laid a table. Little things that keep the lives of folks meaningful - and for most of us it is just that - not big life changing events that we remember but the little things. Maybe it says something about our living little lives but I find it a gentle comfort to have these memories of little things.

Ella - glad to see your post - and so, you are not sympathetic to the Major's attachment to those guns - ah another view point - I wonder what his attachment is all about - do you think it is left over sibling rivalry for his father's attention - he certainly thought as eldest he should be treated as historically the eldest is given a special nod. Do you think it had something to do with his caring of the guns as compared to his opinion of Bertie's, a  younger brother's willingness to care for the gun?

I guess that is often what happens and why families have a difficult time during the reading of the will - we all think this one or that one is more or less capable of carrying on the family traditions, heritage and memories by what is entrusted in their care.  

Yes, the NRA had us all concerned as if showing us as a people where every home was a stockade ready to fight and kill anyone who crosses the property line - I must say the difference in guns is how many of us measure gun control - the concern here is for animals that are allowed to multiply indiscriminately - it is not pretty - the species becomes weaker, more prone to decease and under stress biology kicks in with even more births - most cities do not have this concern but there are many, including Austin as well as ranches where this is a balancing act.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2011, 02:24:04 PM »
Ella I thought I heard somewhere that a town has a church and a city has a cathedral where as a village has neither - I am thinking of the PBS  Lark Rise to Candleford that we get to see every Saturday night - the village, Lark Rise is small - a gathering of cottages - and Candleford is larger with a Tavern and a Post Office and now a new clock tower that is part of the story - hmmm maybe that is the difference - a Post Office - but come to think of it there are places here in Texas where a wide place on the road has a post office/gas station/coffee bar/ grocery store in a building the size of a one bedroom condo and that is not a town much less even a village. Hmm there must be an answer...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

CallieOK

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2011, 02:48:59 PM »
Barb, I found these definitions:

Village A small group of dwellings in a rural area, usually ranking in size between a hamlet and a town.
Hamlet: A small village.   
Town:
a. A population center that is larger than a village and smaller than a city.  (Gee, these are being helpful!  ::)
b. A territorial and political unit governed by a town meeting, especially in New England.
c. Informal A city: New York is a big town.
d. Chiefly British A rural village that has a market or fair periodically.
e. The residents of a town: The whole town was upset at the news.
2. An area that is more densely populated or developed than the surrounding area: going into town to shop.
3. The residents of a community in which a university or college is located, as opposed to the students and faculty: a dispute pitting town against gown.
4. A group of prairie dog burrows.


BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2011, 03:04:31 PM »
 :D :D :D I love #4 -  you've been to Lubbock lately hehehe. Do you have a few 'towns' of such inhabitants in OK?

Thanks Callie, looks like you found some keys to the differences. The idea of a fair or market makes sense.  Some of the English towns have a permanent covered almost arbor like stone structure that was the old market site - they are  usually small so it must have been the center of the market where everyone probably came with their cart or laid out their goods on the ground nearby.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2011, 03:30:46 PM »
You've got a wonderful discussion going on here. I am in fact surrounded by hunters.   In some ways she was quite bold in including "hunting." It's somewhat in some places and societies  anachronistic. I wonder if the Major is too.

There are hunters and then there are hunters. They don't all shoot pet ducks. (I don't know anybody who would shoot as described here.  I wonder why that bit is in the book, actually). However  I have heard and read  about shooting situations  which one would normally think unfair  extended to  other game, depending on who shoots it and where they shoot. I think hunting including fox hunting plays a large part in some British society, doesn't it? With all the distaste that hunting in general can bring in some.

 I seem to remember the movie   Queen with Helen Mirren and the stag. I recall that Prince Philip took the boys out hunting after their mother died, or so I read.

The prized family gun, what an issue!  How well she wrote about the stupendous, if you are  a hunter or gun collector,  PAIR of them, in this book.  A matched  pair of Churchills in your family, belonging to the father,  passed down. Imagine such a thing!   We could picture if it if were the Krupp diamond, perhaps, or a silver service belonging to the family. An old prized gun is the same to a hunter. If you had a matched pair and you were a father, how would you leave them to two sons?  How would you show favoritism or avoid doing that? Should the oldest get them both? (You could probably write a book on that alone, the ramifications of wills and leaving the prized guns belonging to an ancestor). I LOVED the different sons' reactions to the guns, the thread runs throughout the entire book, and the Major's pride in his which led to all kinds of things, and the difference in the generations as to how they regarded them, such fine writing.

I am amazed at the accuracy I've seen in her book and just reading your posts it appears there is a lot more than I ever suspected!  I would read anything she wrote, there's a lot of truth, to me, under the plot. You've picked a winner. :)
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CallieOK

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2011, 04:33:23 PM »
Barb,  I remember prairie dogs well from when I lived in Amarillo.  And, yes, western Oklahoma certainly does have prairie dog towns! 

While eating lunch, I remembered that I'm to do the Children's Sermon at church tomorrow.  Oops!
I've been working on it and, so, haven't yet delved into the book.

However, reading the posts about the guns makes me wonder if the Major considered the gun heritage as a primogeniture thing?

JoanP

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2011, 06:01:10 PM »
Callie, I think he does regard it as a primogeniture thing. He'll keep the guns as a pair until he dies, and then leave them to his son, to pass on to his son.  Somehow, Roger doesn't understand this - any more than Bertie did. Ella, I seem to remember Roger telling his father that Jemina wants them to sell them - the two cousins - and split the money.  I'l bet Marjorie would go for that.  Roger says he could really use the money.  I'll bet he does, considering the high maintenance girl friend of his.   Did you notice what those guns are worth? 100,000 pounds - for the pair?  Am I remembering that right?  When would you say this story is set?  Were there any details that date the story?  Today they would be worth around $160,000 - if sold as a pair.  Can't see Marjorie just handing over Bertie's gun to the Major.  It's understandable that she would go to extremes to hold on to the one - but the real value is in the pair.  Can't understand why Bertie failed to mention this in his will.  Had Marjorie convinced him that the days of primogeniture were over?  It seems that the Major must face the fact - he's not going to get the matching gun.

Ginny, what do you think of rabbit-hunting?  I used to call it "bunny hunting"  when one of my son's friends would brag about the fun he had rabbit hunting with his father.  

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2011, 06:04:04 PM »
Callie I wonder too if that is what is behind the Major's nose being out of joint for evidently years over his father splitting the set. Had to look up the word you used - I love it don't  you when we have to look up a word - I love how quickly we can do this online to the point recently I realized how much I was missing fetching the heavy old Dictionary and propping it up to thumb through...more examples of saving energy that may not be the best course of action at this stage in life.

pri·mo·gen·i·ture
   /ˌpraɪməˈdʒɛnɪtʃər, -ˌtʃʊər/ Show Spelled[prahy-muh-jen-i-cher, -choor] –noun

1.the state or fact of being the firstborn of children of the same parents.
2.Law . the system of inheritance or succession by the firstborn, specifically the eldest son.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

ginny

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2011, 08:13:20 PM »
Ginny, what do you think of rabbit-hunting?  I used to call it "bunny hunting"  when one of my son's friends would brag about the fun he had rabbit hunting with his father.

I personally am opposed to hunting in any form. :) I  don't know anybody who hunts rabbits, tho I do seem to remember vaguely it was quite popular where I grew up in Bucks County Pennsylvania. (Not named for,  but home to,  Pearl Buck).

That's a wonderful point, Callie.
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CallieOK

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Re: Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by Helen Simonson - April 1
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2011, 09:14:20 PM »
I'm caught up! Have read the first six chapters. 

Someone wondered about the time frame of the story.   Roger's girlfriend, Sandy, says her apartment is "near the new Tate".  On   the Tate web site
I found that the Tate Modern opened in May, 2000.
Of course, Sandy could have meant the new Tate being developed.
However, Roger has a cell phone.  Would that mean early 2000's?