Old Filth by Jane Gardam ~ June Bookclub Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in.

June Bookclub Online  Everyone is welcome!

Old Filth
 by Jane Gardam

"The opening pages of the book find Filth (Sir Edward Feathers), a retired but still unassailable old barrister whose reputation has grown to such mythic proportions that it obstructs the hard truths of a man so damaged by his past that he has found himself forever unable to love. It's only as Filth toddles gracefully into old age that he can begin to rediscover the parts of himself that he has locked away and come to terms with the dark secrets that made him the man he became."   (Reviewed by Maggie O'Farrell) The novelist,  Jane Gardam was born  in Coatham, North Yorkshire on July  11. 1928. Her title character's late-in-life questions about whether his life has had meaning are especially moving—and universal, given this author's own experience and age. “Both witty and poignant, this work is more than a character study; through her protagonist, Gardam offers a view of the last days of empire as seen from post-9/11 Britain.  Borrowing from biography and history, Gardam has written a literary masterpiece that retraces much of of the 20th century's torrid and momentous history.”  Library Journal

click on map twice to enlarge

Discussion Schedule for the coming week:

- June 20 - 25  Part Two: Scene:Inner Temple; The Watch; To Columbo  p. 193-219
- June 26 - 30   The Donheads; Chambers; Last Rites;  The Revelation; The Inner Temple Garden  p 220-290

Some Topics for Consideration
June 20 - 25

Part Two
Scene:Inner Temple

1. On what basis do you think the author has divided the book into these two parts?  What new information is overheard in the opening scene in the Inner Temple?

2. "Nothing ever happened to Filth."  What more did you learn of his uneventful  life from the Benchers' conversation?

The Watch
3.   Why is Eddie  unable to eat - or to speak when he returns to High House in 1941?
 
4. What do you think of the deceitful  aunts ? Who  was responsible for the children 's ending up in  Wales?  And why ?

5.Why would their revelations regarding the Ingoldbys be particularly painful to him at this time?

6.  So Eddie is off to meet his father in "the safest place in the world." Why is this ironic?

To Colombo
7. How do you think this young man feels about being an evacuee from a war zone?
 In what ways does he seem to be  a child setting out for the unknown?  How are we reminded that he is not a child?

8. Does Eddie seem to treasure his father's valuable watch?  How close does he come to losing it on the trip home?

9.  What is your impression of the only other passenger on board this rickety boat ?
Can he be trusted ?

10  How would you describe Eddie's mental state after months at sea?  Why did the voyage take so long?  How does he feel about the sea after this grueling voyage?
 

Related Links:
  UK Legal System  (rosemarykaye);
  The British Empire;
  A Brief Biography of Rudyard Kipling;
  Kipling's "Baa Baa Black Sheep";

Discussion Leaders:  Traude  & Joan P

[rosemarykaye]

Here is a link to the Bar Council, the body that oversees all barristers in England and Wales (not Scotland)

http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about/innsofcourt/

This gives you some information about the Inns of Court.  As I probably explained before, only barristers can appear in the higher courts, though they can also appear in the lower ones (it's just that solicitors now have rights of audience in some lower courts, so clients do not always have to go to the sometimes huge cost of instructing a barrister).  Barristers can only be instructed via solicitors, you cannot approach one direct.  And they do wear wigs, though I think that these have been abandoned in some specialist courts - maybe some family ones where they might cause even more stress to young witnesses.

All judges are recruited from the ranks of barristers - mostly from Queen's Counsel, or "silks" as they are known.  These are barristers who, usually for a combination of skill and long service, have been appointed QC, which I think is largely a status thing, turning them into more important barristers who can charge even higher fees.

I may have mentioned before that I used at one time to work in the Middle Temple.  I do not mean that I was a member of the Inn - but several solicitors firms have their offices in the same courtyards.  It was all very beautiful and historic, but we were squashed in like sardines, roasted in summer and freezing in winter - quite Dickensian really!

If you have read Bleak House, the description of the courts in that does still bear quite a strong resemblance to how they are today!

Rosemary

[Jonathan]

How nice to hear from the author. What a magnificent response to our questions:

'Thank you for all your interesting questions. It will be a pleasure to answer them. But give me a little time. They cover huge territories!'

Spoken like a true author. We would be dilighted if our questions were to inspire another book. My perception is that we're only getting half of Sir Edward's story. When the full story is told, I hope that Filth is not too hard on Mrs Didds. Fostering is such a difficult business. Ruddy Kipling could be a real brat, as you no doubt know. Filth, in the SCENE, is given a most intriguing line:

Have I the courage to write my Memoirs?

Would the old Benchers in the smoking-room have hearts strong enough to hear the truth about Filth's stormy life?

QR comes up with the best line in the book:

What do the likes of us know, creeping round the Woolsack at Home and round the Inns of Court.

Woolsacks sound so comfortable. What exactly are they? It's all so amusing/confusing. I love the writing style. The author outdoes Shakespeare. Look at what she has a Seventh Ager doing! The last scene of all! Thanks for the quote from As You Like It, Bellamarie. The best is yet to come. At the end of The Wooden Hat, when Filth and Veneering take on heroic stature.

[ursamajor]

We saw the Woolsack when we visited the House of Commons.  It is a very ancient symbol of English government.  One of our Brits can tell you more about it.

[bellamarie]

What do the likes of us know, creeping round the Woolsack at Home and round the Inns of Court.

Well here are two links showing and explaining what the Woolsack and Inns of Court are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolsack

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/288741/Inns-of-Court

If I understand what they are saying after looking at the link, I am impressed with the Woolsacks and Inns of court and so they seem to be sounding sarcastic and snobbish. 

Memoirs???  Oh please tell me he attempts to write them, I would LOVE to read what he has to say.  Jonathon if the children were abused at Ma Didds or horrific acts were committed there, then I am afraid I would be very hard on Ma Didds.  She had a responsibility to keep these orphans safe from abuse.  There is enough hinting bad thinks happened and Sir mentions those kind of things don't happen in his school.

[straudetwo]

Sheila,  in reply to  your question about "the inner temple".
We were confronted with this  (to us) unfamiliar term in the first chapter. It was one of JoanP's first questions for consideration.

In view of the context,  I suggested that this might be the hallowed halls of court, specifically  the dining/smoking rooms therein,  a sort of  'inner sanctum'. Rosemary confirmed that assumption and provided details.

Thank you, Rosemary, for being here. May I ask two questions on the first chapter in Part Two, The Inner Temple.It's obviously years later since the smoking room is "much refurbished".

* Is "conchie".  short for conscientious objector ?

* I checked Google on the word  "Woolsack" but wonder bout the meaning of "creeping round the  Woolsack", which seems to be an idiomatic phrase.

It took me two days for me to catch up with posts, now I'm ready.

Ursa,  I'm glad you're with us and agree with you about the loathsome,,  utterly contemptible  aunts. They took advantage of their physically and emotionally damaged brother and Eddie, their nephew.  From a moral and ethical perspective, their behavior was insensitive and inexcusable,  all the more so because they were Raj orphans themselves.

JoanP,  thank you for pointing out the locus of O.F.'s remark, will re-read.  I have yet to check the passage but I believe a explanation us coming from Eddie, and  some justification for his saying he has been more sinned against than sinning.
Yes, prandial from the Latin prandium means luncheon.

Regarding the companion book, I heartily agree  with you.  When O.F. was proposed,  the existence of TMITWH as not known.  The majority chose O.F., and that is what we have before us.

It's true that, in answer to a question in the pre-discussion I said that I had read other books by JG and that two of them had to do with O.F. I used my " foreknowledge" of TMWTWH only twice : (i)  to say that the man in the wooden hat is not Veneering, and (ii)  to discourage the notion that O.F. could have killed his wife.

Babi, I agree with what you said i #239.

Steph,  the events were terrifying for Eddie and make the reader gasp, but in Part Two the curtain comes up to reveal  a few amazing (and funny) events that, if not true, are wonderfully and inimitably well invented.  And very fast, too. We need to hold on to our hats !

More on the questions ASAP.

P.S. Bellamarir
Just saw your post ahead. I too googled Woolsack, but wonder exactly what "creeping rounds the Woolsack" means, and asked Rosemary.

[bellamarie]

"What do the likes of us know, creeping round the Woolsack at Home and round the Inns of Court?"  What should they know of England Who only England know."

I just feel like these two are being snobby, they are talking about O.F. getting help moving up in his career by the dicey Gloucester, and how he pretends to know social people,  and then they ask the question pointing out they were brought up in the elite society around Woolsacks and the Inns of Court, and O.F. like Kipling were Raj orphans causing...crack ups, stammers and psychological blindness.

Rudyard Kipling: in his poem "The English Flag" from 1891 when it first appeared in the Scot's Observer. The whole poem may be seen at the source below, here is the first verse which contains your quote:

Winds of the World, give answer! They are whimpering to and fro --
And what should they know of England who only England know? --
The poor little street-bred people that vapour and fume and brag,
They are lifting their heads in the stillness to yelp at the English Flag!

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/2727/

I could be way off base but that is what I saw the whole Inner Temple conversation to be.  Two men putting O.F. down and bragging about themselves.

[straudetwo]

Bellamarie,
 

This is what I've derived from the chapters that are titled "The Inner Temple".

Only barristers have access to the court, as Rosemary made clear.  Hence they are all equal in standing - though not all are as famous as O.F. or as rich, or as mysterious, and he's the oldet by far.  When it comes to the question of "elite",  they all belong to  it,  so how could there be  snobbishness? They're just curious, possibly awed and perhaps a little envious of his success and reputed wealth.

I believe what  these people are saying is of little importance to the story,  their comments are merely an accompaniment, a sort of modern Greek chorus in the background. Just my opinion, of course.

[bellamarie]

straude~

When it comes to the question of "elite",  they all belong to  it,  so how could there be  snobbishness?

Some people feel the NEED to think they are more important.  They aren't merely standing around talking down about O.F. for NO reason.  They obviously feel inferior to him and so their idea of being more socially acceptable because he was a Raj orphan and they weren't is how they overcome their jealousy of him.

I believe what  these people are saying is of little importance to the story,  their comments are merely an accompaniment, a sort of modern Greek chorus in the background.

I tend to think our author is much too genius to write the Inner Temple for little importance.  If that were the case, why write the chapter at all? 

Only barristers have access to the court, as Rosemary made clear.

I am imagining these men are talking about growing up in the social families of being round the Woolsack at HOME, and round the Inns of Court.  They are comparing their upbringing to O.F. and Kipling.  This is what I see.

[rosemarykaye]

Straude - "conchie" is indeed an abbreviation for conscientious objector, but as for "creeping round the Woolsack", all I can think of is that it is some allusion to wanting to become the Lord Chancellor (ie top lawyer) who, in Westminster, sits on the woolsack.  Either he is aspiring to it, or  - perhaps more likely - he wants to impress the Lord Chancellor in some way. I have looked up the office of the Lord Chancellor, and it is he who used to approve recommendations for barristers to "take silk" or become Queen's Counsel, and he who approves the appointment of senior judges.  Most barristers presumably want to take silk, so they would maybe have had to suck up to the LC to get it.

I love the idea of those old barristers as a Greek chorus.

Rosemary

[Steph]

Aha..Rosemary, I too love the barristers as a Greek Chorus.. You hit it on the head. I am not fond of Kipling and dont think the book is like his at all, but then I dont like his books and I love this one and will look for the second one as soon as we finish.

[Babi]

 ROSEMARY, I've just been reading a description of the courts of India in a book by Tarquin
Hall. He compare them to Dickens, also, and truly they are a horror. I would want to avoid
them at all costs!

 Thanks for the link to the woolsack, BELLA. I hadn't a clue as to what it was.  I think
ROSEMARY's ideas about what it meant to 'creep about' the woolsack make perfect sense.
   It has been my impression in both the 'Inner Temple' vignetttes, that Gardam was stressing
the wide gap between what OF's colleagues believed about him and the true story. How often do
we think we know all about a person, yet we really haven't a clue.

 Are we ready to tackle the 'Watch' chapter yet?  There were some things there I want to ask/talk about.

 

[bellamarie]

Babi,   

It has been my impression in both the 'Inner Temple' vignetttes, that Gardam was stressing
the wide gap between what OF's colleagues believed about him and the true story.

I agree, and it seems they want to think Betty was Okay, yet they do mention Veneering.

Yes, I am ready to go on to the "Watch"  if everyone else is ready.

[JoanP]

Steph, I like Traude's description of barristers in the Inner Temple as a Greek Chorus too - though I agree with Bella, their role here does seem to have some importance in advancing the story.  They seem to be questioning the earlier premise in the opening Temple scene in Part ONE :

"Nothing has ever happened to him"
"Never put a foot wrong."

In that scene, Filth had no reaction, but there is a difference in the opening of Part TWO-

Ther chorus -

"Nothing much ever happened to him."  
"Nothing ever did go wrong."

This time the Queen's Remembrancer brings up the question - what do we know?  We're so concerned with local matters -  will sit upon the woolsack in Parliament - what do we know of what goes on in the colonies? (thanks for the woolsack links, Bella.)

The  response, introduces Kipling into the discussion -
"What should they know of England, Who only England know?"

This time, there IS a reaction from FILTH -as he questions whether he has the courage to write his memoirs.  Or will he keep his secrets?

Has he ever "put his foot wrong?"

 

Do you get the feeling that something bad happened in India that nags at him - that he needs to set straight?  If he writes his Memoirs - how far back will he go?  Hopefully he will go all the way back to childhood, to Wales - but maybe that part will remain repressed.  Maybe the real secret will be what went on in India...

[JoanP]

Yes, yes, let's go on to the WATCH chapter-   Eddie is on his way "home" with only a few pounds in his pocket and that obviously expensive watch!  Will he still have it when he reaches his father?
The aunts are of interest - sometimes described as "old women"  (of forty) and other times, "Les girls."  If they are 40 now - and Eddie is 19- how old would they have been when Eddie arrived...in Wales - or did he come to stay with them? This must be shocking to the boy, who seems convinced that Auntie May brought him to Ma Didds.  At this point, I'm not sure who or what to believe, do you?  I don't think Eddie does either.

The engaged aunties  seem completely unaware  how their revelations are affect the young man, who had just learned that his only friend in the world has been killed in the war....

[bellemere]

I can't believe I read the whole thing!  Delayed gratification was never my forte  and I brought the book on vacation and could not put it down.  So now I know about Ma Didds, and Eddie's start in Hong Kong and have to disqualify myself as a collaborative group reader.  I knew this would happen!
I loved the book. I read everthing you are all witing.

[Jonathan]

Bellemere, I'm with you. What do you think? Did Betty marry him for his money? Did those clever young women, who all knew each other at Bletchley Park, the wartime think tank, all wonder which one of them would get Sir Edward?

[Jonathan]

And how did Eddie Feathers go about choosing the one he wanted - or needed?

[bellamarie]

JoanP,  

At this point, I'm not sure who or what to believe, do you?

That pretty much sums up the way I have felt throughout this book.  Mama MIA!!  lol

Imagine how Eddie must have felt going back to the Ingoldby's to find their house deserted.   This makes me so sad,  

" Eddie walked round the resting, deserted house and met nobody.  He began to try the familiar door handles; the side door from the passage into the garden with its dimpled brass knob; the door to the stables; the kitchens.  All were locked.  He grew bolder and stood beneath a bedroom window and called, " Mrs. Ingoldby?  Is anyone there?"  It's Eddie."  He rattled the door of the bothy where the gardener lived.  Nothing.  No dog barked.  In the garage, there was no old car, the car in which you had to put up an umbrella in the back seat when it rained.  The Colonel's vegetables stood scant and scruffy, Brussels sprouts like Passchendaele.  The beehives had disappeared."

One more time in his life he is alone.  The people he thought were like family......all gone.  

So, off to the greedy aunts to find they are going to be getting married, moving away, and he is to go to Singapore to his father.  And, yes, he is given the watch!

His whole life has consisted of traveling from one place to another.  It's no wonder he could never get emotionally attached to any one place or person.  This chapter just seemed so eye opening to me of just how sad it had to be for a child/young teen to be shuffled around so much.

The seven stages of life in the play "As You Like It," so reminds me of Eddie's life.  So, what will his seventh stage reveal?   In the final scenes of the play:

Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans* teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

The word "sans" means without....Is O.F. without everything?  Now that Betty is gone, he is alone.  No amount of money, or success can fill the void of the loss he has experienced in his lifetime.  I'm feeling sad for him.

[Steph]

I must confess that I am champing at the bit to finish the story, so will try to do that this weekend. Eddie seems to have had a history of loss.. Betty interests me, so I would love to know more about her.
I am so sorry for Eddie. He loved the Ingoldsby family and they walked away. They lost both sons and it was just too hard for them to think of him.

[Babi]

 I believe..and someone once told me this...that the Aunts understand the strategy of
THE BIG LIE. Tell it your way, tell it loudly and often, boldly and outrageously...and
most people will assume you must be telling the truth.

 


   

[rosemarykaye]

Babi - absolutely, isn't that what politicians do?  Tony Blair and the WMDs come to mind (for some reason...)

Rosemary

[straudetwo]

Babi, oh yes,  and it they tell the big lie often enough, they'll come to believe it themselves.

[bellamarie]

I wish this had a "like" button on here I would be clicking away....lolol  Yes, I agree with all three of your comments about the Big Lie!  These aunts led Edward's father to believe he was living with them??  How on earth could his father be so out of touch and not visit him once?  Oh please don't get me started.   I just have way too many frustrated feelings about this entire story to even begin to know where to start.....

Ciao for now~

[JoanP]

bellemere - don't go too far. We're near ready for the last section, when all will be told.  Your post was heartening - at least some of our questions will be addressed.  I'm ready to start reading it too - but want to spend a bit more time on the boat to Colombo where I think Eddie's transformation is taking place.  Ashamed to admit I don't know where Colombo is located...

So you all seem to be convinced that the aunts are lying.  They were honest with Eddie about accepting money from their brother, at least.  The question is - did they ever keep  Eddie with them when he was young - "tiny"...   Didn't his father know where he was?  Did he think Eddie was with his sisters?   How was Auntie May involved?  Did she bring the boy directly to Ma Didd's?  Or did she take him to the aunts -- and Eddie forgot abut that?  I'm hoping that we meet up with Auntie May in the last section.  She could certainly set the record straight.

"I am so sorry for Eddie. He loved the Ingoldsby family and they walked away."  I wonder where they did go, Steph  - and where Isobel called from? She tried to get in touch with him.  
The aunts told Eddie that the Ingoldbys had been helping them out with him.  Did Eddie know the Ingoldbys were doing the aunts a favor by letting him stay with them?  (He thought it was because they liked him.)   Eddie didn't even know the aunts knew the Ingoldbys...I didn't either, did you?   I know it's wartime - but was puzzled to see the army vehicles in the drive - army huts on the property, though High House is  locked and empty.  We don't know where they have gone.  (Evacuated?)  Do you think we will learn that?  From Isobel, maybe...

Slowly JG is providing examples of the boy's steady mental decline.  The most noticeable is his loss of speech, which seems to have begun with the news of Patrick's death and then when he arrived at the locked and empty High House.  Clearly he is regressing...can't speak, can't eat either -

Does Alice seem to know him well?  Obviously she cares for him.  The aunts have been quite heavy-handed in letting her go - She's old -   - much too old to move in with them.  Well, maybe they are right - she deserves something better at her age, better than waiting on Les Girls, don't you think?  But the way they talk about this faithful servant - "past it, " Hilda whispers...  Can't "old" Alice tell him the truth about his early childhood years?

I think it has to be a painful decline, Bella -  Eddie must sink lower, before he puts the pieces together again.   Jonathan's humpty dumpty story - in reverse.  This isn't easy to watch, is it?  Like a child the aunts have sent him off on this journey, totally unprepared, in the cheapest possible accomodations.  With one pound in his pocket.  By all appearances a man -   Especially hurtful to me was reading of the incident with the buttermilk girl. Traumatic? How can he get past the shame to become the man we know as OLD FILTH?

[bellamarie]

Steph,

"I am so sorry for Eddie. He loved the Ingoldsby family and they walked away."

When I read the Ingoldby's house was deserted, and the army vehicles in the drive, it led me to believe they were evacuated from their home.  I can't imagine them leaving on their own.  With the war and the loss of their two sons I can not see them walking away....more so being driven off, out of the comforts of their home.

Yes, JoanP that is true, Isobel did indeed try to make contact with Eddie, at least that is what the aunts told him.  I was confused when the aunts said they knew the Ingoldby's.  At first I thought I had misread it and had to go back and reread it.  I suppose the saying is you must hit rock bottom, in order to climb back up.  Indeed this is sad, I would be scared to death being sent off on a ship with little to no money, knowing no one. 

[rosemarykaye]

The army vehicles in the drive reminded me of Brideshead Revisited, when Charles is sent there with his unit, and walks around the empty halls remembering times past.

Rosemary

[Jonathan]

I feel the unmarried aunt gets a real break in this story. Les Girls are living their own lives, and not serving the pleasures and needs of others. Family ties do seem tenuous. Did Eddie's father ever come up the river to see his son those first four years of his life in the Orient? Very happy years, which left happy memories. The six months or so Eddie spent with his father, he was ignored.

We musn't ever feel sorry for OF. He had a most distinguished , successful career in Law. The Woosack could have been his if he had stayed in London.

So, what will his seventh stage reveal? lol We're witnessing it right now, Bellamarie. Eddie's last stage is remembering, reliving the first six with the help of the author.

A few unhappy English childhood years shouldn't be sentimentalized. Very often they served a purpose, intended to develop character and independence.

Keep your eye on the dwarf. He may turn out to be the smartest guy in the room.

[Jonathan]

Yes!!! That's what came to mind. Brideshead.

[ursamajor]

I read on and finished the book, and so have been waiting impatiently until I could post again.

My biggest unanswered question is why Old Filth?  Yes, I remember the "Failed in London Try Hong Kong" acronym, but the name is absolutely pejorative and undeserved.  What was Jane thinking of?  Edward, in spite of his success, is a rather pathetic old man who has suffered a great deal and done little harm.  He has spent his life isolated, even from Betty, by his childhood experiences.  Why call him by what can only be described as an epithet?

[bellamarie]

Jonathon, So, what will his seventh stage reveal?

lol We're witnessing it right now, Bellamarie. Eddie's last stage is remembering, reliving the first six with the help of the author.

I suppose you are correct, but....I am hoping he attempts the memoirs and gives us the truths, and details we all are so anxiously awaiting to hear from his perspective.  Guess Betty takes a stab at it from her perspective in the companion book.

ursamajor,  PLEASE don't give away spoilers there are some of us who have not read ahead.  I want to turn every page and be disappointed or surprised, which ever emotion it draws from me at that moment I read these final chapters!!!!  

Rosemarykaye,  I have never heard of "Brideshead Revisited"  gosh sometimes I sure wish I would have found a book club such as this in my twenties, instead of in my fifties....you all have so much more knowledge.  Chug a lug-- - I'm coming.  

[rosemarykaye]

Bellamarie - the only reason why practically the entire UK population of my age or older has heard of Brideshead is because it was famously adapted for TV about 30 years ago.  It was shown in weekly hour long episodes and was absolutely wonderful - Anthony Andrews and Jeremy Irons played the lead parts, and will always be remembered for that more than anything else they have ever done.  You can get it on DVD, at least you can here, and it is well worth watching IMO.  I have also read the book!  But I must admit that it's the TV series that stays with me - I think it was made in the days when production companies seemed to have money to burn, and there are beautiful scenes of Venice, Oxford, "Brideshead" (Castle Howard, and English stately home) and the English countryside.

The book starts in the war, with Charles Ryder (Irons) arriving at Brideshead, Sebastian's family home, with his army unit, which has been billeted there.  It is then told in a series of flashbacks, which describe Charles's first meeting with Sebastian at Oxford, and his subsequent involvement with the aristocratic Flyte family, who are all devout Catholics - Catholicism features large in the book, as it did in the author, Evelyn Waugh's, own life.

More recently, a new film adaptation was made - but I have to say it wasn't a patch on the original.

Rosemary

[JoanR]

Dear Bellamarie - Most of us here have a good many more years than you - more years of reading, traveling, etc. - so don't worry about what you haven't read or know - you have plenty of time to catch up!!  I for one must be about 30 years older than you are  and that's a ton of reading!
All I have to worry about is keeping my memory up to snuff so I can deal with Latin, heck of a lot there to memorize!!!!!!!!!!  Maybe you should join one of Ginny's classes!
I hope you can borrow the DVD of "Brideshead Revisited" from your library.  I think that it's just about the best thing I ever saw on the TV screen - watched it several times over the past few years.  As Rosemary said, it is probably more enjoyable than the book although I did like that too.
It's good to see your enthusiasm!

[bellamarie]

Thank you Rosemarykaye and JoanR, I will indeed look for the DVD this week end.  It sounds like a movie I would enjoy!

Ciao for  now~

[straudetwo]

Ursa,   it was rather courageous of JG to give the bopk that title.  It could well have been a 'turnoff' for some readers  when it was first published and when the paperback came out. Yes, of course Edward himself coined it, he was quite a quite a wit, sometimes a bait cynical even, and the name stuck to him. But even Betty called him "Filth"
We know he coined it himself. But even Bette ended up calling him 'Filth'. We have every reason toa belive  for Betty and others it was used with affection without malice.
As we well know, very little was known of his personal life - and exactly that caused the barristers at the Inner Temple  to endlessly wonder about him.  They had not the slightest idea what his life had been like and blithely concluded (wrongly) that "nothing ever happened to him."
These chapters are a clever writing device by JG by arousing the reader's interested without giving anything away.

Question 3.  
A lot of unexpected  things happen at the end of the school year.  One night there's a false alarm and much confusion,  but no invasion. Pat contracts pneumonia and is isolated in sick bay. Eddie manages to sneak in to see him.  Pat tlls him he's going to join up as soon as h is discharged.wings. From his old professor Oilseed Eddie learns that his father wants him to join him in Singapore an that Oxford will have to wait.  He also learns that Pt's brother is MIA. e tries to call the Ingoldbys but fails and writes a note instead.

While waiting for the papers at his aunts, he prepares for the Oxford entrance exam. One winter's day he take the train up, arrives at dark and gets lost in the snow looking for Christ Church  A friendly guide (whom we'll meet again) points him in the right direction.  He leaves after the exam without breakfast. On the way to the train station he stops at a cafe meets Babs there. She begins talking to him;  he does not reconiza him until she tells him.
Transportation was difficult. in war time trains run at a different schedule, or none at all. He went as far as one would take him and took what was available.  Getting back took all night. The trains,  though filled with young troups,  were cold and damp. one traveler handed him a newspaper. Glancing at the obituaries of war dead he spotted Pat's name.
He got off the train and went on foot in the direction of High House. It was empty. The factory had been requisitioned by the army
 The factory has been requisitioned for the war effort,  exactly as Colonel Ingoldby had anticipated.

He arrived at the aunts; wet and numb, left his hisbaggage in the hall. A surprised Alice came up from the kitchen. She put a finger over her mouth and nurmured something about impending changes. Soon after the aunts returned and,, spoting the baggage, clled for him.  They immediately sprang the news of their wedding, told h him his passport was ready his departure was imminent.

Is it any wonder he was unable to speak ? What was there to say ?Under the circumstances, how could anyone enjoy a meal with such perfidious people?

Question 7.  Only small children were evacuated and Eddie was keenly embarrassed and self-conscious to be ine.

Question 8.  Edde treasured hus father;s watch. The buttermilk girl asked him for money, and when he told her he had none, she asked for the watch.

Question 9.  The other passenger is a Chinese dwarf and a card-sharp.  He tells Eddie that he is not an evacuee, and  not white and says vaguely that he's of Hakkar stock. When Eddie asks him how old he is he is outraged. Then softens snd says 14.  Who knows whether it's
true ?

Question 10, The long voyage proceeded slowly in a convoy and in stages, always on the lookout for U-boats. Eddie had done no rese beforehand and no idea of how long it would take.  By the time they reacahed Singapore, the Japanee had taken it over. Albert Ross (or Loss, since Chinese cannot pronounce rs) decided to stay and look for his uncles, all lawyers he aid.  The ship refueled in Singapore and sailed all the way back. Eddie was on it. The watch had been swiped by Ross/Loss.

We come to the most interesting part of the story next. I assure you you will not be disappointed. Pazienza, as the Italians say. Patience.
Not all things are what they seem, certainly not in this book.  

Rosemary,  we are all big fans of Masterpiece Theatre opresentations productionby PBS, and familiar with Evelyn Waugh's Brideshead. In 2007 we discussed the movie Brideshead Revisited. Ginny led the discussion.

[JoanR]

Bellamarie - be sure you get the DVD of the television production of "Brideshead Revisited" with Jeremy Irons.  It's much better than the movie!

[rosemarykaye]

Re the title Old Filth - I read one review that said, in conclusion, "there are some sorts of filth that time cannot wipe away" (or something like that).  So I wonder if it is a play on words - yes, it means what we are told it means (Failed in London, etc), but perhaps it also means that some of the bad things in Edward's past cannot easily be forgotten.

Rosemary

[serenesheila]

In my opinion, Eddie deserves my understandinh, my compassion and my sympathy.  I think that whenever a child is abused, including neglect, that emotional wound remains in the adult.  I find it so  sad, that so many British children experienced that kind of neglect, including Eddie.

Today, I finished the end of the chapter on Colombo.  I only remember one mention of his companion being a dwarf.  Did I miss something?  I wonder, too, how Eddie would know where his father was? 

For years I have watched TV programs, and read about the effect of WWII having on individuals.  Until I read this chapter, I had never been aware of the effect on people in transit on the high seas.  That information, really impacted on me, today.

At this point in my reading, I find this book quite depressing.  I hope that several loose endings will be tied up.  I find the comments Eddie overhead while napping, to be a real joke.  How little, most of us know about anyone else's life.

Sheila

[Steph]

Edward is so ill on the boat. It is like he has willed himself to die.. I know he survives, but at what cost.. I think this has to be the low point and I will hope that the book goes up.. Since he seems to have had a successful life, why could we not have a little more of that and a little less of Candide..
I loved the book..Brideshead, but not so much the movie.







E

[JoanP]

Steph,  I preferred the book too - maybe because the story - AND the writing were Waugh's own?  But the movie was very well done, though it left  out some of what I felt were important scenes.

The trip "home" was miserable, more than miserable, wasn't it?  First of all, his father has ignored his letter, begging him to let him stay in ENGLAND.  The aunts have booked this trip for him - a trip on the seas that will send him right into the war zone - totally unprepared on a rickety boat that never would have been approved to take evacuees to safety.  Here's a question - do you think his father even sent for him to come to Shanghai, knowing of the danger awaiting him?  I'm wondering if the aunts didn't just want to be rid of him and sent him off - could that be what happened?

The incident with the buttermilk girl made me sick.  Poor Eddie doesn't know what's going on - but hasn't the strength to resist her.  At first I thought she, as other women (girls) in the book, found him incredibly attractive.  But then it turns out she was simply looking for money - OR that watch.  Sheila, do you think it was this experience that scarred him for life?  Or the abuse at Ma Didds'?  

I wonder why the aunts had his father's watch in the first place?  Maybe his father sent it to them to give to the boy? Can you tell if it means anything to him?  He seems more upset at losing his address book than the watch.  What did you make of the dwarf?  Was he good for Eddie - or an..albatross?

Rosemary, I'd agree with that review.  I'm finding enough examples that indicate FILTH does see himself as "filth" even though others use the name with affection.  It's more important how he sees himself - though he's probably been too hard on himself.

Are you wondering what made him so sick?  We know he'll survive - because this is just a flashback.  I would like to know where Colombo is located.  How far did he get before the boat made landfall?

Sheila - take heart - his situation will improve, I'm sure. They have to - things can't get much worse for the young man, can they?