Novel Bookstore, A. by Laurence Cossé

[BooksAdmin]

Welcome to our July Discussion of

A Novel Bookstore by Laurence Cossé

What is a good novel? A classic, a book that was a landmark, a difficult book? We have all read books that include all the basics for a 'good' novel however, it became a novel without genius. Will ‘A Novel Bookstore’ move us toward a definition? A Utopian Paris bookstore, without the constraints of market realities and financial constraints, triggers jealousies and threats in Cossé's self-described, elegantly written novel. Ivan "Van" Georg and Francesca Aldo-Valbelli, the heroes, establish ‘The Good Novel’, a bookshop that will stock only, well written French fiction. A secret committee of eight French writers is conscripted to submit annual lists of titles that become the bookstore’s inventory. We, the readers are immediately thrust in the middle of solving secret attacks on the lives of three committee members. As the story continues, we join the friends of the ‘The Good Novel’ to also track down who is behind the attempts to de-rail the success of the bookstore that is protecting artistic excellence from being submerged by mediocrity.

Links are underlined.
Lunchtime Literary Conversations: with Laurence Cossé and author Hervé Le Tellier, moderated by Rakesh Satyal
In French, with great photos illustrating her books… Laurence Cossé dans La Grande Librairie du 12 février 2009
Quotes by Laurence Cossé

Week 1: Part 1 and Part 2 through Chapter 14 (about 102 pages)
Week 2: Part 2 from Chapter 15 to the end (about 97 pages)
Week 3: Part 3 (about 123 pages)
Week 4: Part 4 (about 86 pages)

Discussion Leaders BarbStAubrey and Marcie

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR WEEK 4 - PART 4

• We learn something about the writing process, and what constitutes a good novel, through discovering more about the committee members, especially the members who were attacked. What made an impression on you?

• What are some of the cynical aspects of the book publishing and book selling businesses that we learn about through the investigation of possible culprits? Have you experienced any negative aspects in your pursuit of books?

• What do we learn about Francesca? Is her situation, reactions and how she "took her leave" a reflection of novels you've read or heard about?

• What parallels are there in the relationships between Van and Anis and Van and Francesca?

• How do Van and Anis change after Francesca "takes her leave" and they read Francesca's notes?

• What are your thoughts as  you finish reading the book?

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR WEEK 3 - PART 3

• How do the various settings – forest, hillside trail, mountain ski resort, Paris, hospitals, police station, a seventeenth-century building add mood, tone and meaning to the text?

• What recurring patterns, images/symbols, images, metaphors, similes, have you noticed and Why – What is their purpose – How do they develop or impact the characters?

• What clues made you suspect those behind the denigration of Francesco and Van

• How do the attacks on the values inherit in the book store remind you of other literary and scientific attacks

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR WEEK 2

• In this section (middle to end of Part 2) we learn something about the personal lives of Van and Francesca. What impressions are you forming of them? What does the Bookstore mean to them?

• What do you make of Anis?

• What are your impressions of the 8 members of the committee?

• What are your thoughts about the importance of literature that Francesca learned from her grandfather?
  "Literature is a source of pleasure, he said, it is one of the rare inexhaustible joys in life, but it's not only that. It must not be disassociated from reality. Everything is there. That is why I never use the word fiction. Every subtlety in life is material for a book. He insisted on the fact. Have you noticed, he'd say, that I'm talking about novels? Novels don't contain only exceptional situations, life or death choices, or major ordeals; there are also everyday difficulties, temptations, ordinary disappointments; and, in response, every human attitude, every type of behavior, from the finest to the most wretched. There are books where, as you read, you wonder: What would I have done? It's a question you have to ask yourself. Listen carefully: it is a way to learn to live. There are grown-ups who would say no, that literature is not life, that novels teach you nothing. They are wrong. Literature performs, instructs, it prepares you for life."

• Are there books that are mentioned in this section that you are thinking about reading?

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS FOR WEEK 1

• Who is telling the story?
• How many stories within stories have you noticed?  What books have you read that use a narrative embedded in the story, often told by a character in the story? This is sometimes called a Metadiegetic Narrative (a back story).

• On page 23 Marcellin heard Paul deliriously mutter “Mina green and pink.” When he spoke of it to Madame Huon, she assumed Paul “was referring to one of his visitors and the color of her eye shadow or her lingerie.” What was Paul referencing, and why is it important?

• Several of the names that are sprinkled in chapter 4 are names known to the French. Who among the names is a well-known skier and whose Sur name is a famous cookie even sold here in the US?
• What causes a chuckle reading the Doctor and Suzon attacking the beaufort? What is beaufort?
• What is the history of the name Montbrun?

• Suzon says Paul is a very cultured man who goes by the name Néant. In French Néant means ‘nothing - void’ which could describe what he lives on but more, how does his name link the concept of void to: ~ Charles Baudelaire ~ Alexandre Grothendieck, mathematician ~ a Cabaret  ~ Phantasmagoria

• What book have you read that was so powerful when you finished reading you realized you never read anything like it? What about the book you read was outstanding? Was it the use of language, the unforgettable characters who spoke to you in a new way, a theme that reached beyond your imagination?

• Why does Armel write checks to Maritime Rescue or Handicap International?
• Van speaks highly of Armel as a storyteller. What is the difference between a storyteller and a stylist?
• What are the various meanings for Paul’s pseudonym, Brother Brandy?
• What motivates, scares, upsets Anne-Marie?

[marcie]

Welcome everyone! We look forward to talking about this unusual but delightful book with you.

We've posted some possible discussion questions in the heading here for Part 1 and midway through Part 2. You need not respond to them all. They are just there to serve as a guide.

[BarbStAubrey]

Wheee we are on Our Way...seems apropo to me that we start on the weekend we celebrate 4th of July - so much has been written of late just how much the French was part of the early creation of our Independence.

This book has been a joy and one of the more fascinating I've read in quite awhile - I love researching what I do not know and there was tons to research - someone reading this in France would immediately pick up on all the connections and droll remarks - and I hope I've uncovered a few to share with you as we go along as I bet you will be finding and sharing what you learn.

During the pre-discussion there was a comment about trying to keep all the characters straight - we could start a list of the characters but I am hesitant to enter yet, another list in the heading - it may only be a temporary need and so before the day is over I will post a list of characters chapter by chapter for the pages we are reading during week one. My guess is it will fairly quickly become a moot point.

The first interview in the heading with our author - Lunchtime Literary Conversations - is a real eye opener to her approach to writing - the interview is 51 minutes but I think you will be please you watched it. The second is actually an online newspaper clip that is a delight as it shows, as if a clip for a movie, some of the settings for a few of her books including a wonderful shot of a Paris - jammed to the ceiling - bookstore. Laurence Cossé dans La Grande Librairie du 12 février 2009

If you are open to an adventure in reading and literature we have it in this book - so let's get started - I am so excited - really...!

[Frybabe]

Claiming my seat.

Got my book renewed so now I can relax and take a little more time with it.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh good Frybabe because this one is not easy to talk about just remembering the story - it seems to be more about all the allusions and quotes from the characters.

Ok I promised a list of characters so I better get started... 

[JoanP]

Here you are!  The first day of a new discussion is always such fun, isn't it?

Right off I need to say that I love this translator - Alison Anderson - the woman who also translated Elegance of the Hedgehog.  I hope to discover the reason why I hear her voice in both novels - written by two different French authors.

She sure does use the word, "ordinary" often, doesn't she?  I'm noticing that the people she describes are not really ordinary at all - once you get to know them.

I'm really curious to learn the identity of the narrator.  At first I thought it was a matter of the omniscient narrator, but in time, the narrator enters the story using the "I" pronoun - as in: "I haven't read as much as Van and Francesa." 

So much more than a story about good books - but a mystery, and maybe a love story as well.  And such pleasant, interesting  company to share it with.

[BarbStAubrey]

So far - looks like chapter 4 is the challenge with so many lending a hand - I'll get it however this so far. What is fun about all these names is to Google the last name and you can start to pickup the quiet humor - also, the nods to various well known areas in France.

1.
Paul Néon – one of the committee of eight and one of three who are attacked

Jules Reveriaz is young and later finds his scarf

Suzon Petitbeurre who visits Paul and drives in turn: a cherry colored Twingo, a black Fiat and a gray-blue Nissan.

Good ladies of Les Crêts Village  
Madame Huon from L’Etoile des Alpes
Madame Antonioz formerly librarian at the High School in Albertville

Proprietor of seedy café - no name
Alfred from L’Alpette
Old Mr. Parmentier keeps to himself and knows the woods by heart

2.
Anne-Marie Montbrun – one of committee of eight and one of the three who are attacked
Monsieur Menthaleau - a neighbor needing a butane bottle
Madame Ageron - old lady neighbor needing transportation to the super market
Anthony Fabre - a child Anne-Marie regularly drove home
Diane Ottaviani - a child Anne-Marie regularly drove home
Monsieur Montbrun - whose business took him abroad,
Arthur Montbrun – their 9-year-old child

3.
Armel Le Gall – one of the committee of eight and one of the three who are attacked
Maïté - Armel’s partner

[marcie]

Joan, I had the same reaction as you to the narration. I had assumed an omniscient narrator and was sort of startled when I noticed the "I" was an actual person (though I don't know who!).

[Frybabe]

I thought the shift in narrative to a "live" narrator rather than the passive third party odd. I thought I had missed something in the beginning, but I see I didn't.

On page 23 Marcellin heard Paul deliriously mutter “Mina green and pink.” When he spoke of it to Madame Huon, she assumed Paul “was referring to one of his visitors and the color of her eye shadow or her lingerie.” What was Paul referencing, and why is it important?

A cursory investigation came up with only these facts. Both are novellas, however Stendhal never finished The Pink and the Green which had it's genesis in Mina de Vanghel . Mina de Vanghel was made into a movie (French,1956), but IMDB doesn't have any real info about it. Several essays I ran across about Mina de Vanghel indicate it is regarded by some (including Simone de Beauvoir) as feminist in nature.

Right now, I don't have a clue how this is important to the story except that Paul was fond of reading them. I have an urge to add them to my To Buy list. Maybe the library has a copy somewhere.

[BarbStAubrey]

She sure challenger us right off the bat doesn't she - so glad you are part of this discussion JoanP and Pedln - and Marcie thanks for being a partner in this read - yes, who is telling the story - they seem to be there as an observer - do they know all or are they simply an observer - we shall see what we shall see as the phrase goes -

The biggie - the first chapter - First let me say you can enjoy and understand this entire book without making sense of the first few chapters - the author does throw us because her first chapters are not typical of how a story opens and is set up...

What we do know just reading the pages for this week - we ask - why start the book with these three short chapters about secondary characters? Usually, in the first chapter or chapters,  you get a sense of what the story is all about. When I read the book for the first time I was sure it was a Fantasy novel - with a disappearance - rotting leaves - forest roads - finding a scarf 50 feet away - the sound like water spiders - come on if that is not the kind of opening for a fantasy novel I do not know - then we have a bottle found 6 days later and a man, Paul passed out in the black leaves of this forest with a pale moon.

After all this atmosphere we get the first glimpse of the life of this man called Paul - his plan to read a couple of books by Stendhal - OK the title of this book is the Novel Bookstore so titles of books are probably going to be included and where we on Senior Learn have read a book written by Stendhal I know I hadn't and I bet no one else has read either of these two books - so what I say and read on.

Only reading this the second time did I pick up an the clue how important those books were with the quote from Madame Huon - and seeing the both books mentioned again in another early chapter - by then on the hunt I was switching back and forth translating as much French as I could find - and pulling up whatever I could remember of how a book is organized.

Writing a first chapter is an important skill for anyone writing a Novel - and an important chapter for the reader to determine if the book is worthy of their time and to find out what is the thesis of the story. Here are some links describing what the first chapter of a book includes -

I prefer using this link - It is clear and easy to read but I will list a few others that I referred to on my trail of figuring this out.
Write and Publish Your Book - writing the first chapter

Fict-On; Opening Chapters
The Business of Writing
Contemporary Lit. First Chapters, Excerpts

So let's see what we have comparing our first chapter to the inclusions recommended for a first chapter.

1. Introduce your main character.Your protagonist. In the case of stories with multiple points of views and multiple main characters this might not necessarily apply, but if your story is about 'someone' it is a good idea to have them appear somewhere on the first page.

So is Paul our protagonist - is the forest with the pale moon a central character - is the young Jules Reveriaz or Suzon, the main characters?  

Well there goes the first page - how about the second page - The two books and the author Stendhal - the names of several vehicles and an unknown proprietor of L'Alpette.

Before we track, let’s look for more clues of what we should expect to find in the first chapter...Because you guessed it the first thing was to Google L'Alpette, the vehicles named and finally the two books...

2. Do not give too much away. The first chapter should be a teaser. It should intrigue and create anticipation and suspense, whilst also giving enough detail on the character and the world of the story to keep the reader interested.

Ok she does that in spades...

3. Set the tone and style. Is there a strong voice coming through in the first chapter? How are you marking yourself out from all those other stories and writers out there? Try to establish your own unique style and tone, make your authorial voice loud and clear, but without bashing people over the head. Readers are wise, and have probably read as much, if not more than you have. They know what to expect from a story, so it is better if you can upset that expectation somehow by giving them something a little bit different. However, make sure that your style is consistent with the rest of the book.

Ok tone - definitely French - I am thinking I better get a good handle on what is meant by tone so I turn to this link Writing Tone and Pace which among other tips says, "# The tone and pace should match the novel's theme and intention. If you open in a literary voice, the reader expects this voice to be fairly constant. -The main character should set the tone. Is the character bitter, funny, desperate?"

hmm is Paul the main character? Well having read some 100 pages he does not appear to be the main character - definitely a mystery about this that the description of the Forest in the pale moon helps to set and finding things days later along with things happening that other folks are not aware of when they happen and even Paul has no clue what happened or who did it. That is when the concept is made evident this is a story within a story - what happened to Paul is like that play in the middle of - was it Hamlet or Macbeth - one had the witches as a scene separate from the main story and the other had a traveling group or even in One Thousand and One Nights, Scheherazade tells stories separate from what she is experiencing with the king.

More and more those two Stendhal books seem to hold the clue and if we were up on our Stendhal we would know without all this fal da rah of looking up - talk about writing a mystery - we are in the middle of one of our own and we haven't read past the first chapter.

4. Stakes.What is at stake here? What is the story about. The first chapter should satisfy the reader's need to understand what the story is going to be about, what challenges the character will face, the odds stacked against them. Can you establish empathy with the main character in those first vital few pages?

Well we are not yet sure, who is the main character or what the story is about - so far, it is a mystery that has us by the tail.

Can you establish empathy with the main character in those first vital few pages? This should be one of your main goals. If the reader does not care about the character, they might well give up on your story.

Well we care about this poor man who has stumbled out of the forest... but he must be symbolic of something if we decide this is a story within a story.

5 Make your character human. Presenting the character as a fully-dimensional person with believable attributes, who is in a situation that the reader can relate to. It sounds obvious enough, but is easier said than done. Try and speak to the reader as if you are talking to them on a personal, one-to-one level; make it intimate, intense and present them with a character and situation that is unique, intriguing and makes them want to read more.

Until we know who this main character or characters are - plus the next two chapters brings us face to face with a few more sympathetic characters and a whole host of characters that bring a smile to your face as they are described - you can almost see the tableau of village life.

OK the two books must be found - they seem to hold the key - well here is a nice short review translated from the French - this is the link to the translated page - Culture et Debates

A Project Muse, Journal 19th C. French Studies, Mina de Vanghel

Here are pieces of the novel since Google does not reprint an entire book Pink and Green and Mina de Vanghel

And finally here is the entire 28 page story Mina de Vanghel

I must come up for some air - yes the PDF link to the story is in French - yes, I found the book at Amazon and purchased it AFTER would you believe running the entire story through Babel to get that crude translation. - a second post will follow of a 'quick' - yes, I can do quick -synopsis but more, the quote that say something meaningful and the quote is repeated in various ways throughout the story.

[BarbStAubrey]

Well it has been awhile since we had to review how a book is organized in order to see what the author is doing. Seems to me it was when Atonement was published that knowing English Lit 101&2 needed to be in our hip pocket.

The way I am reading this book the author introduced the main characters to us by way of another book.

There was a stage devise used that I cannot remember the name for it – but it was used in the stage production of Evita, where the journalist tells the story and before every change of scene or important event on stage out he comes, across the stage or to one side and talks to the audience – I am seeing that in who ever is telling the story and within the story, I am seeing  that role played by Paul as he points to the characteristics and circumstances in the life of Francesca and Van.

From what I have read, Stendhal wrote Mina de Vanghel and realized it had problems – he set aside for a few years and then used it to write Le Rose et le Vert

There may be many more similarities however, Mina’s father, who she adored died when she is age 12, leaving her a very wealthy German aristocrat. She cannot leave her rooms because of young men in pursuit – she is wise beyond her years and realizes they will abandon her to the woman’s world once she marries any of them and they have their hands on her wealth. Her mother wants her to marry for protection suggesting older ‘Baron’ types.

In her teens – I think 16, she manipulates letters that allow her and her mother to travel. Before anyone can stop them, during the night they are off to Paris. Within 6 weeks, Mina realizes everyone is nice to her in Paris but she has neither friends nor the prospect of being accepted as a friend.

This is where Stendhal has much to say about the difference between the French and the Germans – the one phrase that is included several times with just a bit of difference to make it not a direct repeat is…

This represents a couple of translations – but you get the gist…

The fear of the small French irony l did not have obliged, at every moment, to throw a veil on its so full German thought of frankness.

Mina did not adopt the manners of a young Frenchwoman. While admiring their seductive graces, she preserved the naturalness and the freedom of her German ways.

The fear of French irony had not compelled her, at every moment, to draw a veil over notions replete with German frankness. Monsieur de Larcay dispensed with a host of little phrases and gestures required by elegance.

The Stendhal story is taking place during the days of the 'Salon' when in France, women were with great success offering all that was theirs; house, time, daughters, intellect and, above all, manners and wit to the glorification of all that was beautiful, artistic and idyllic, exploring the newest thought of economic and scientific questions.

In response to Mina noticing her difference she decides owning property would put her among the right circles – she finds a château and arranges the purchase – her mother dies and Mina completes the purchase. She focuses her attention on Alfred (we have Alfred the proprietor of L’Alpette in our book) a married man who is basically weak. She covers her German blond skin with some concoction and hires herself as a maid to the family pursuing a relationship and marriage with Alfred, Monsieur de Larcay.

She uses what she has to go after what she can pursue giving the opportunities for women in the late 1800s. She is independently wealthy and adored her father. Veiling her German frankness literally by dying her skin and hiding her position as a German aristocrat where as Francesca is more enigmatic keeping her life and wealth veiled.

[Frybabe]

Unfortunately, Google translation does not work for me. It tried it yesterday.

Regarding the French/German interplay: When reading the excerpt in Amazon, I found a passage where a gentleman (don't remember the name) made a rather disparaging comment about the French saying that they took every opportunity to put down the Germans. Funny, that is what he was doing about the French.

My very first impression at reading Chapter One of A Novel Bookstore was, "I thought this was about a bookstore".  It is a mysterious beginning. The next two chapters add to the mystery as two more seemingly isolated incidents occur before someone sees a connection. Something menacing, something sinister appears to be happening. What a start!

[BarbStAubrey]

Interesting Frybabe what we take away from what we read - fun - you could have fun with the idea of a bookstore filled with rotten leaves as in pages of a book being leaves. And the light of wisdom a pale moon - oh my - but seeing the scene through the eyes of a Harry Potter movie it is rather sinister isn't it -

As to the German/French thing I guess I was not seeing the difference as competitive so much as different - that each has their specialness - if I likened Ivan to the German frankness and naturalness with his elbow worn sweater and Francesco with her elegant gestures, seductive grace and small ironies - I like them both and see a benefit for both. I do think we all note differences - not sure though if seeing and remarking about those differences means one is assuming a power position over the other although, I agree we often do just that.

I do think - and I laughed out loud with the realization that most often we/me read for information and we expect our novels to be written in a frank and open way that we consider the natural or 'right' way that tells the story as opposed to seeing the work as an artistic opportunity to brush up against elegant small phrases that will gracefully seduce us into a mélange of metaphors, allusions and word associations.

[JoanP]

My very first impression at reading Chapter One of A Novel Bookstore was, "I thought this was about a bookstore".  

Frybabe

My feeling exactly! But the story opened with a heavy-set 50 year old body lying in a forest. Are we beginning with a murder?  This changes expectations of this novel - into something sinister.  Wait, the man is in bad shape, but he survives!.  Neither does the mother of four, involved in a bizarre car accident.  She comes away with only shattered ribs and a broken sternum.   It turns out these incidents are related. - They both involve writers...and now we are getting into books, and where there are books - there are bookstores.  Here we go.

 Did Stendhal really write La Rose et Le Vert, Barbara?  I know  his Le Rouge et Le Noir - years ago some of us discussed it here.  What a great book - a "good novel."  But this obscure work!  I'm willing to bet that it relates to the story as we get into it...otherwise why use it here in the introduction?

From a link Barbara provided on this work - "Stendhal is not condemning his heroine to immorality because she is a woman and can have no sanctioned freedom; he is demonstrating how society condemns those who have the courage of their convictions, be they male or female."

[marcie]

Frybabe, I was wondering the same thing about the start of the novel and how the incidents related to a bookstore. Why should a novel bookstore attract danger? Maybe we're getting somewhere with that quote, JoanP, from Barbara's link, about "how society condemns those who have the courage of their convictions." Is the act of expressing one's taste/preferences perceived to be harmful to others and, thus, elicit vengeance?

[BarbStAubrey]

owww I do like the quote you found - perfect for 'The Novel Bookstore' - "how society condemns those who have the courage of their convictions."

The Amazon link to both Stendhal stories Pink and the Green followed by Mina de Vanghel

[BarbStAubrey]

Have any of you figured out why all the village type characters in the first few chapters - many are only mentioned one time and what they have to do with the story is beyond me except if it was a painting it would remind me of one of the paintings by dutch artist, Pieter Bruegel.

Looking up the names is fun and can shed a bit of light on who are the some well known figures in France with similar names - is that the only reason for say a Colonel de Billepint or a Madame Antonioz to be included in the story?

[JoanP]

Most of the characters living near the three victims seem to me to serve one purpose - they provide information on the comings and goings of the three, proving that even though you think you're living a private life, you are always being watched.  I can't say I made a note of any of their names with the exception of one - Armel's companion of 17 years - Maite.
He knew she was watching him -  and it was only a matter of time that he had to let her know why he was afraid to go out for his usual walk.

So are we to assume that each of these three writers have been followed by two men who are threatening them bodily harm?  Did they also attack the other five members of the committee?  Why these three, in particular?  And   what did they hope to accomplish?  Get them to drop off the committee that selects the book titles that are sold in the Novel Bookstore?  Can you think of any other reason?  And who would know their identity?  That's the real mystery, isn't it? 
Who would have it in for this little bookstore?  Who had access to their real identity and where they lived?

[BarbStAubrey]

He knew she was watching him

A lot of watching going on isn't there JoanP - villagers that don't knock and check up on neighbors but they sure do watch knowing what vehicles and who visits Paul - as you point out, Maïté watches Armel - two unknown men watch Armel- Armel watches his watch for his appointment with Ivan and then watches for Ivan's arrival- almost feels like we should be expecting a Fahrenheit 451 storyline with book banning as the next initiative with all this watching...

There is no one seen watching Anne-Marie and no one sees her mystery vehicle that she believes caused the accident - it has disappeared...yes, who is behind all this and why...?

Have any of you had fun looking up the many departments and officers in your police department - I smiled when I realized since we are split between the Travis County Sheriff and the Chief of the Austin Police Department a decision would have to be made where to start - not sure of the comparison titles between the Paris police and some of the combined efforts of both the Sheriff and the Police department - we do not have any "30 units specialized in a variety of crimes and offenses." But then being small there is the advantage of calling or dropping in and telling the deputy what is what and knowing we would be directed to the right officer. Now to find one who reads literature hmmm, but then you never know and I always get a kick out of waiting in line at the grocery store and a casual conversation with those in line most often includes a line of thought along with a few literary quotes sprinkled in that can only come from readers.

[Frybabe]

Nah, I didn't look up police department organization, but I did start to check out two of the towns mentioned, Les Crets and Meribel. Both are ski areas with the former also known for paragliding. I am curious to see where each of the committee members resides. What I haven't done yet is find me a street map of Paris.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Fourth of July.

[BarbStAubrey]

What map did you use Frybabe - for the life of me I could not find Les Crêts - found several towns that could fit.  One was situated with access to Lyon but it looked like more than a 2 hour drive to Chambéry which is south of Geneva - the town was situated though in a forest in the Haut Jura National Park. And then another that was west of Lyon and again a hike to Chambéry but could maybe be done in 2 hours however, no virtual tour in this Les Crêts and the nearby road that you can see with the virtual tour does not show a forested mountainous area. Then another, way too far although in the mountains, located not too far for Thonon les Bains on Lac Léman that separates France from Switzerland.

Now when I Google I found Les Crêts as an apartment complex in Méribel - fabulous views of the mountains for Les_Crets-Meribel_Savoie_Rhone_Alpes Do you think that is it and our author used the name of this complex as the name of the village in her story - The first chapter did say the last house in Les Crêts but I do not get a picture of a man alone in the middle of all these apartment units...What do you think...or did you find something that would work better.

Here we are trying to nail this down as if it were a travel-advisor or someone's biography rather than a piece of fiction. But it is fun isn't it

[Frybabe]

I just used Google maps, Barb. This is confusing. While it came up with a Les Crets not too far below Geneva, in France, it appears that the name is attached to a bunch of apartment/resort complexes in a number of diffierent places in France and Switzerland when I just Googled the name. There is one in Meribel. So my question is, when I input Les Grets in Google Maps, why did I only got one southwest of Geneva. Well, at least we know where Meribel is.

[BarbStAubrey]

Its gotta be that she used the name of the complex for the name of the village because when you Google Méribel it is too perfect - right in the middle of la Vanoise National Park and a straight shot west  to Chambéry that looks more like a 2 hour trip considering the terrain and the Lyon further west. Oh and using Google's little yellow man to create the virtual tour - what a treat...

[Frybabe]

I didn't know about the little yellow man.

I found my travel guides (many countries, courtesy of an old friend) for France. As late as 2000, Meribel is not listed in Frommers, nor is the name Les Crets on any accommodations (the "newest" of the guides). I do have a huge street map of Paris, however. Yea! If you've ever seen me struggling with a paper map, you'd understand why I like Google maps and Google Earth.

I am going to go through Chapters 1-14 tonight and list all the places I see in the book, maybe the books listed and authors named that I don't know. Sounds like a nice after dinner project assuming there isn't anything worth watching on TV again tonight.

[BarbStAubrey]

Frybabe on the Google map there is usually on the left side a slide that allows you to zoom in by degrees and on top of that slide is a little yellow man - If you use your curser to move him every street that has been photographed turns blue on the map and where you place the little yellow man will give you a photo of what is there - every building  - tree - street sign - pedestrian - vehicle - everything like a youtube video

On the street in the photo are white arrows that if you use your curser to hit the arrow in the direction you want to go the video of all you pass will be as if you are driving a vehicle - if you stop as if stopping your vehicle you can use your curser to turn the picture 90 degrees and get a shot of the front of a building or the landscape.

Frybabe I use Firefox and I have a very old computer - over10 years old running Windows something or other so that most things will not even come up on Explorer where as Mozilla Firefox accommodates this old version of windows and so if you have a new computer you should have no difficulty using this Google feature.

[BarbStAubrey]

Oh yes, great on listing the places - books and authors - Frybabe as long as you are taking on that huge task I will continue to list the people mentioned in Chapter 4 on - and then see if I can find a link to their names - something about the author including the actual names of so many characters is nudging me to think there is more to it than their being their to further the story of our 3 victims - that could be done with nameless villages - but there are these scenes with Suzon and the Doctor and all this about the 'plumb' hanging out her laundry when Paul comes weaving from the forest - why would we need to know she is shy, has 3 children and her husband modern enough to insist she not wear her scarf after they wedding day and yet because he is Moroccan he has conservative ideas - why do we need all that for a character to be there when Paul comes into the village - I just think there is more and so I want to look up names and see if that can be a clue. I just think there are sublet hints that go over our head because we are not living in France knowing the culture of the country.

[JoanP]

Frybabe, I'll be very interested in that list - especially the books that you list. Could you list the books that you recognize as well as thouse you've never heard of?  Before we began this discussion, it was my hope that we'd turn up some titles of "good novels"  for future discussions...

Did you notice the American author   both Van and Francesca considered to be the best living author?  What do you think of him?
I loved Van's little basement bookstore- what a great job...reading all the time - and stocking only the best.  Listening to Van and Francesca go on about their love of books - and then their plans for a new book store, I really thought these two were so well suited for one another.   I don't really see Van's attraction to young Anis - except she likes to read books - and is "exquisite."  Francesca - much more gravitas, I think.  But why is she so sad!

Here's a photo of the little town of Meribel - I can see why Van loved it here.

Barb, I am not seeing the significance of the names - but maybe they will turn out to be important later on, but I can't see  how - there are so many of them.  Perhaps because the names of the people and the places are foreign to you that you think that their use might mean something more?

Years ago one of my sons came here - skiing in nearby Val d'isere.  He was overcome by the mountains -  way beyond his skill level. Thought he was going to die.  He took out his camera and took a picture of the slope, his last view on earth. Maybe this is why Anis decided not to ski when she came with her school friends... I don't remember why she comes at all...

[BarbStAubrey]

Well JoanP - like you say the names may all prove to be nothing - Néant - but there is support characterization for some of them and that intrigues me - no rock unturned kind of thinking - what can I say I am hopeless when it comes to examining the details.

Ah the mountains - I'm not a skier - never been there in winter - have wanted to visit the Christmas fairs in Germany in winter - however I hiked several times in Austria, Germany, Switzerland and France.  One year I too hiked these mountains - what is great making European hiking so much easier is most of the hiking trails in Europe have huts that are very inexpensive to stay for a night - so you can hike from hut to hut.

The huts on the high mountains are usually only two rooms - the lower part is booths and benches with a ceramic stove for heat and the kitchen plus a small add on where the hut master sleeps and then upstairs is one bed for 14 to 20 people with pillow and folded blanket at the foot defining everyones spot - across the isle may be another bed for 6 or 8 and an upper deck for about 4 - that side is shorter because at the end is a room with one John and sink that everyone shares.

Folks stay in these huts from all over Europe. I was fascinated meeting many from the Netherlands who bike ride to the mountains in either Switzerland or northern Italy using the huts and hiking trails. Several young people were meeting grandmothers or aunts at some location like Zermatt where together they will climb part of the Matterhorn.

The other astonishing thing is to hike in the forests for a few hours and just when you think a nice sit down with a cold beer or hot coffee would be perfect, like in a fairy tale - out of no where - is this huge seventeenth or eighteenth century chateau in front of you or down the trail a bit - with umbrellaed tables outside and other hikers, head back against the wall resting in the sun - there is nothing around - a single lane road that must be how delivers are made - hiking is a very different experience than the Appalachian trail.

[BarbStAubrey]

Cormac McCarthy page on Amazon Read All the Pretty Horses - loved it however, he includes man's brutality in just about all his stories - seems to me it was made into a movie - I have The Crossing in my pile of books but I have to be in the right emotional place to tackle what I know will be a brutal portrayal of someone.

Not mentioned in this book however, I was blown away when I read the excerpts for the new book of unfinished work by David Foster Wallace entitled The Pale King... his writing - oh my...I sure do hope we come up with some recommendations of books to read - I am thinking we need to be just a bit further into this book to get the flavor of what is a 'Good Novel'...

[marcie]

I am in awe of the rest of you doing research on the locations mentioned in the book. I have no sense of geography.

 I found the following information about the author's inspiration for the "novel bookstore." The bookstore seems to be based on an actual place:

Q: What inspired you to write A Novel Bookstore? Is The Good Novel based on an
actual bookstore?
 
Author: For a long time, I planned to open a bookstore in Paris with the name “Au bon roman”
[The Good Novel] that sells novels, nothing but novels, and all of them excellent. But the
years passed by and my plan remained only a dream. I told myself that at the very least I
could write about it, I could tell the story of The Good Novel.
 
I often ask myself: Where did the idea for such a utopia come from? And my answer is that
it is not a utopia. In my mind, it was a plan, a real one, and one that I believed could be fully
realized.
 
Some years ago I encountered an exemplary bookseller in Val d’Isère, a famous ski resort in
the French Alps. At the time, he managed a small walk-down treasure trove that was full of
novels, all of them remarkable; I was inspired by this man, Jean-Paul Shafran, and based
Van’s bookstore, located downstairs from the offices of M. Bono’s small press, on this store.
(By the way, Shafran subsequently opened his own bookstore in Val d’Isère.)
 
Since the publication of A Novel Bookstore I have received numerous letters from booksellers
in France and all over Europa, all saying, Come to my store (meet our readers), and you’ll
see: it’s The Good Novel.
 

[BarbStAubrey]

How fabulous marcie - not only that you found this goodie but that there really was a prototype for Ivan and more, that he opened a bookstore in the mountains as well as hearing that all over Europe similar bookstores are serving readers - looks like there is room for both the big chains and the smaller specialized bookstore - seems to me there is a bookstore I visited in London that had nothing but cookbooks so the idea of a bookstore shelving only good novels sound reasonable doesn't it...

[BarbStAubrey]

The health report about Eloïse is difficult and yet, we were so enriched by her posts since most of the books we read she found and read written in French and would join a conversation with us in English - amazing - we embraced what was French as well as, through Eloïse's son the French speaking part of Switzerland.  Somehow I am not feeling that intimacy with all things French that was a part of our reading and discussing books. Does anyone remember what French books Eloïse led in discussion - I am remembering for awhile there was a French speaking discussion led by Eloïse. I do not want that special privilege we enjoyed to fade from my memory.

[JoanP]

The last book discussion with Eloise that I can remember was Elegance of the Hedgehog - funny, the same translator of this book.  I also remember her participation of Le Rouge et Le Noir.  I'm trying to remember which one she may have been leading - in French, Barb.

I'm wondering about the reading clientele of such a bookstore - in the mountains.  Don't you think it must be the young who come to ski?  Young people like Anis?  Don't jump on me, I'm probably wrong about this.  There are probably many Seniors who come to Val d'Isere to ski.  What do I know?  I think that Val and Francesca are planning a bookstore in a larger urban area - Paris, isn't it? Because most of the books they are talking about are written in French, is that right?  I've only done one bookstore in Paris - Shakespeare and Company, near Notre Dame.  Have you ever been?  Don't get me started on that experience!   It's got two separate departments - one for very expensive rare books - the other used.  I remember buying  a copy of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight there.  My memory is not great, but I have the book on my shelf, with the Shakespeare and Company stamp inside - to help my memory.

I love the way Francesca and Van  channel one another, as they plan.  If one wants to open such a bookstore, it's good to have Francesca as a partner.  Unlimited funds, it appears - and the building they can use for the store.  Wow!  Her husband seems to be footing the bill.  I don't understand why she doesn't leave him though - is it the money?

Barbara - Yes, Colmac McCarthy.  Did you read THE ROAD with us several years ago?  That was quite an exhausting experience.  I did read Pretty Horses - but not The Crossing. Do you know the title of the third novel in the trilogy?  Were you surprised they both feel he is the greatest living author?  I mean, they read just about everything and they singled out McCarthy.  I wonder if Laurence Cosse feels this way about him too?

[BarbStAubrey]

Joan I never tire of hearing about your experience in Paris at Shakespeare and Company - what a memory to have and pull out to dust off from time to time - just fabulous. Seems to me being a part of that book store you were expected to read a book a day - whew - I do not know how to do that and still have time for other things in life but then they are not maintaining a garden or keeping a family other than those in the store along with many of our other responsibilities that keep our days full.

Joan I could be wrong but I am remembering way back before the Stendhal discussion, maybe 10 years ago, there was a time when Eloïse led a discussion in French and there was at least one if not a couple of books discussed - vaguely I am remembering The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas.

[marcie]

JoanP, I too like the way that Francesca and Van are "on the same page" although they don't seem to have exchanged much personal information about their lives. The book is pretty mysterious about everyone so far.

I too was surprised that they singled out Cormac McCarthy's Border Trilogy. I'm wondering if Laurence Cosse is directing our focus to something within those books rather than on the "greatness" of the author or books themselves. I looked up a bio of McCarthy and it says:
"The third volume of The Border Trilogy was published in 1998; Cities of the Plain, unites John Grady Cole, the main character of All the Pretty Horses, with The Crossing's Billy Parham, and centers on Cole's doomed relationship with a Mexican prostitute. Not as well-received by critics as the first two books in the Border Trilogy, Cities of the Plain is nonetheless notable for its epilogue, which reaches back to Suttree [my note: Suttree is McCarthy's fourth novel and, according to some critics, his best] in its imagery and simultaneously casts the entire Border Trilogy in a new and fascinating light, unifying the previous two volumes of the trilogy."

Maybe there is a clue about A NOVEL BOOKSTORE for us there.

[JoanP]

Barbara - I'd forgotten about the "readers"  in the Shakespeare and Company bookstore in Paris.  Mostly students, they were.  With no place to stay in Paris - no money.  In exchange for a bed, a cot or a mattress in the bookstore itself, - (mostly on the second and third floor)  - they had to read a book a day and stock the bookshelves.  So, when you visit the store during the day, you find them - reading.  Van would have loved this store.

I thought it was funny that V. and F. put aside talk of the bookstore and traded information of a personal nature on the 7th day.  Funny, Van shared very little with  Francesa.  She spilled her heart out to him -  about her daughter and her unhappy marriage.  Not sure why she stays the husband, though. Did I miss something? She is very unhappy.

Oh.  My!  Marcie, I never questioned the importance of Cormac McCarthy's work to The story.  I see what you mean.  So many book titles by noted authors have been mentioned - it is odd that both Van and Francesca point to him as the greatest living author.  Let's  see where this goes.

Another lingering question - how did Suzon know to go into the woods after Paul's incident. Was that explained? She was looking for the bottle - and found it.  How could she know it would be there?  Unless she's in on the plot?

[Frybabe]

I'm wondering if Laurence Cosse is directing our focus to something within those books rather than on the "greatness" of the author or books themselves.

Marcie

I was thinking pretty much the same thing about the Stendahl books. Most, if not all are listed.

Funny, Van shared very little with  Francesa.  She spilled her heart out to him...

JoanP

I must be too used to George. It didn't strike me as odd that Van didn't share much personal info.

Good questions about Suzon, JoanP. I just assumed that she was familiar with his drinking habits and the forest path. What struck me as odd was why she would pick up the bottle. It sure seems like she wanted to hide evidence. Maybe she thought his story was a drinking induced imagining and/or wanted to spare him the embarrassment of the police not taking him seriously because of his state at the time.

[marcie]

Frybabe, I think you're right about the Stendahl books providing clues about this book. Barbara has provided links to some of them at the end of her post #9.

[BarbStAubrey]

I think you are on to something Frybabe - I do have and I'm reading the two Stendhal stories - the Mina... is a quick read the other, Le Rose et le Vert is Mina being the same as she was in the other short story but it goes on as she, in disguise seduces Monsieur de Larcay - I need to get back and read more - the book is too long to simply be a seduction piece. I see a lot of similarities between Mina and Francesca - where we hear more about her private life we really do not have an understanding of how much wealth and how it is administered - I thought it came from her father or grandfather - I think next weeks read goes into some of that but it still is not as laid out as for instance the way the bookstore will be laid out and what books they will stock.

I wonder if the 7th day they rested is what the seven days are all about - a lot of numbers and counting going on - what I wonder is that all about - I only see that now - it seems to emanate more from Ivan - is that an outward sign of his German frankness - it has to have some connection or why would an author keep it in the book...

Let's see in All the Pretty Horses it is the two friends John Grady and Rawlins are riding to Mexico when they notice a kid, thirteen year old Jimmy Blevins following them - sounds like Annis in the story as both Van and Francesco are on their journey towards opening the bookstore. The whole odyssey for John Grady is built on his love and knowledge of horses - the land where his family ranched is pulled out from under him by his mother the sole heir to the land - he raises his status quickly at a Mexican Ranch with his ability to quickly break horses - he oversteps his position when he allows the willful headstrong daughter to fall in love with him and the father arranges not only for his daughter to go to France but for some gunmen to take Grady and Rawlins to jail where they are accused of horse stealing. The story then gets rather intense with a lot of brutality - Rawlins is killed - Grady is in a knife fight - lots of 'stuff' happens - he does get a night with Alejandra before she leaves him to take the train on her way to France and after he learned it was she who signed the papers for his arrest - there is a whole backstory about a grandaunt's lost love - the kid was in the jail and he is killed - Grady leaves Mexico with what he had when he started his journey - his horse and his pride - back in Texas he stops to inform the kid's family and finds Jimmy's father is dead - all his ties in Texas are gone so he goes off into Mexico where he experienced all the confusing brutal aspects of life and where he again could negotiate life and not loose his Pride and where he is dependent on a land owner in order to do what he does best - handle horses.

And so some of the similarities I can see is Ivan is dependent on Francesco's wealth to do what he does best just as he was dependent on the shop owner in Méribel to do what he does best. Maybe Van has feelings for Francesco that cannot be realized as Grady had feelings for Alejandra - certainly we get a sense that Francesco is not in his class with her staying at chateaus, owning a building in Paris and other signs of wealth while his prized possession is a sweater with holes at the elbows and his knowledge of what is a good book. We start to wonder is it Francesco, like Alejandra, who behind Van's back is arranging for all these mysterious attacks... is it Francesco's husband who also seems to be a man of wealth and is outspoken with his disdain for the success of the bookstore...is Annis a kid who cannot take care of herself when the going gets thick and ends up like Blevins no longer in Van's life...

I have not read any other Cormac McCarthy written book so I'm limited to just this story to try and find any clue to how his books could be a  shadow to the story Laurence Cossé is telling.

[serenesheila]

I signed up for this disussion, but will not be able to concinue.  I am having vision problems.  On the 19th I will see my opthamologist, to evaluate if I am ready for my cataract surgery.  Hopefully, things will then improve.

Sheila