The Library

[marjifay]

The Library Our library cafe is open 24/7, the welcome mat always out. Do come in from the cold and join us. We look forward to hearing from you, about you and the books you are enjoying (or not) right now. Let the book talk begin here! Everyone is welcome!

 Suggestion Box for Future Discussions


Aha!  Thanks, Marcie.  I found the other discussion groups.

[marcie]

That's great, marjifay. There are some very interesting discussions there!

[Sandy]

Long day and it is just a little over the sun..Husband had an endoscopy this am.. No food, doctor over an hour late.. Not a nice morning.. This has been the month or so of tests and tests and test. He feels fine, just lost way too much weight in a short time..Some problems swallowing, no saliva.. Mostly the doctors feel it is long term radiation problems, but they seem to want to test all sorts of things to be sure. I guess I see their point, but I get worn down when he gets so angry at lateness...mistakes...etc. Oh well. Excuse the whine..

Steph, you have been through so much with your husband and his tests and his to-be-expected anger at all he has been through, that I think it is healthy and normal  for you to share your feelings.  Just remember to take care of yourself. No one can nurture on empty. Hope there is good news somewhere ahead.
Sandy

[PatH]

Steph, your "whine" isn't even on the Richter scale when I think about what you are going through.  Sandy is right about taking care of yourself, though.  Someone once explained it to me very well.  When you are on an airplane and the cabin loses pressure, you are supposed to put on your own oxygen mask before helping your child or anyone else.  This is because if you don't, you may pass out and not be able to help them.  The same is true of caring for someone.  It's absolutely essential, and not selfish, to do for yourself whatever you need to give you the "oxygen" to have the strength to do what you have to.

[Steph]

Jean, thanks for reminding me life could be a lot worse. His radiation comes from Squamus and basal cell skin cancer on his forehead and right ear. They took most of the ear a few years ago, but everything seems to be in check just now.. I do the dermo, Mammo, no more gyn, since that all got cleaned out about 10 years ago,so all is needed is a quick check every 4-5 years, not much left to have wrong. Sort of funny,, I started out with blonde hair, then it darkened, first I dyed, then I streaked, then about 10 years ago, I said,, the heck with it.. Now as I grow more white and grey and blonde, it looks really sort of neat.. People ask me what kind of dye, and I keep telling them, I do nothing.. Now if I could convince the darned stuff to curl a little.

[Babi]

Bellemarie, I came so close to your own story of your 'Beautiful Boy', tears were gathering in my eyes. My own son slipped into drugs in his early teens, but I thank God we were able to find him the help that was able to turn him around. Keep praying for your grandson; the day may yet come when he 'hits bottom' and finds the motivation he needs to work his way out.

STEPH, it is hard, when one is anxious and stressed, not to be angry with delays and mistakes.  And of course, those who are closest to the fall-out get the brunt of it. Don't apologize for the 'whine'; that's what friends are for.
   By the way, congratulations on your hair.   After a  long spell of illness, mine is falling out like a cat shedding it's winter coat!  I can see a wig looming in my future.    

[JoanP]

I'm so glad we have this little corner of the world to share concerns and support.  Bellemere - {{{hugs}}} for you and your Boy! 

Steph - Bruce is going through the same thing.  They had to take cartilage from his ear and put it in the side of his nose this time.  I understand what you are going through.

uh, JOANP, what was this idea you had about Edwin Drood? Babi

Babi - Actually I had two thoughts about Drood.  When you said you felt you knew enough to guess how it must have ended, I thought it would be fun to read and discuss it (not sure how far Dickens got with it before his death - did you say he was over half finished?)...and then everyone come up with an ending.

Then I thought about the two authors who recently wrote mysteries on Drood - Dan Simmons, Drood and Matthew Pearl's Last Dickens.   I wonder what brought about this sudden interest?   I know Matthew would come in and talk about his book with us again as he did Poe Shadow and Dante Club.  Maybe we could read Dickens' Drood first, then come up with our own ending...and finally, read and discuss Matthew's book with him.  It would be interesting to see how he treated Drood, I think.  You can bet it would be a very different twist on Dickens...

[lucky]

   March is Women’s History Month.  We have never gotten our due, from Eve on up.  Elizabeth Stanton and her coterie wrote a feminist interpretation of the Bible called “The Woman’s Bible” which is wonderful reading and which puts Eve in a favorable light. Eve, she tells us was the smarter of the two, more intellectually curious and so ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.
The Middle Ages gave us extraordinary women such as Hildegaard of Bingen, a noted theologian, philosopher, musician and Margaret Hroswitha of Gandersheim who wrote verse, history  and is credited with having written the first play in Europe.
Christine de Pisan (14th century) wrote “The City of Women” in which she called for women’s rights.  She has been called the first feminist.  Her writings are readily available.   
The Renaissance brought horror to women.  The Great Witch Hunts of the 15-17 centuries brought death and destruction to  so-called witches, many of whom were midwives and healers.  It is estimated that 200,000 women were murdered.
   The modern age produced women scientists.  Marie Curie along with her husband Pierre won Nobles prizes for their discovery or radium and yet I have heard grumbling from male chauvinist pigs and piglets that her husband was the one who really discovered radium. During the First World War, Marie Curie toured the battlefields with a portable X-ray machine saving countless  .
   Rosalyn Franklin was ignored for the Noble prize although she worked with Crick and Watson decoding DNA and yet was ignored.
   There are a number of books that I would like to recommend
That deal with women’s history.
A History of Their Own, vol. 1& 2, by Bonnie Anderson, Judith Zinssi

The writings of Christine de Pisan
The Treasure of the City of Ladies

Madam Curie, Eve Curie

Uppity Women  (this is great fun)   Vickie Leon
Ancient times
Medieval
Renaissance

Century of Struggle, Flexner & Fitzpatrick

Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right, Linda Gordon  ( a good source of information on women’s reproductive rights)

Malleus Malificarum ( The Hammer of Witches, Spenger & Kramer)
This was written by two Dominican monks in the 15th century and deals with the question of identifying witches.  It reads like a source book on abnormal psychology, but it is fascinating.

[Steph]

A book that has helped and continues to help me with my body.. Our Body. Our Selves.. done by a cooperative in Cambridget and updated later. Excellent source for all sort of female type interests. When menopause struck with both feet at me back in my 50's, it literally saved me. I learned to walk, to eat healthy, to reach out to other women.. Oh me.. my book..
We are still learning to live with the long term effects of radiation. My husband had three bouts in three years and he has now managed to lose his saliva glands entirely,, and an inability to swallow with comfort. He is going through a huge battery of tests to help, but thus far.. nothing is seen, other than the long range and that cannot be fixed.

[Babi]

JOANP, both ideas sound good to me.  I have been curious as to what Matthew's book about 'The Last Dickens' was about; thanks for answering that question for me.

LUCKY, I would like to add to your list of influential women, the names of Hilary
of Poitiers, a 4th century educated woman who was elected Bishop of Poiters, and Julian of Norwich, a late 14th-early 15th century mystic and hermitess who wrote "The Sixteen Revelations of Divine Love", the first book published by a woman in England.

[lucky]

Hi Babi,

Are you familiar with the story of Pope Joan?  There are those who believe that the story of woman pope is just a myth, but "The Legend Of Pope Joan" by Peter Stanford makes a good case for her.  It is fascinating reading.

[pedln]

Steph, you're entitled -- to whine, and this is as good a place as any to do it because we understand.  So, as often as you need.  I'm sorry you and your husband have had to go through so much.

Interesting that you should mention Our Bodies Ourselves.  It came to mind while reading Lucky's post right before yours, and then there you mentioned it.  We first  had it in our high school library back in the '70's, and I remember there were some raised eyebrows, and some areas had it banned, but we kept it, even though the boys would think it fun to huddle and comment.  We eventually had to put it on the "reserve" shelf to keep it from disappearing.  The only problem with some reserve shelf books is that  some kids would be intimidated about asking for them.  Just looking at Google now, it's still being published, is now translated world wide, about to celebrate its 40th birthday, and the organization in charge,  the Boston Women's Health Book Collective, has an excellent website.

JoanP, I like you ideas about the tie-in with the new Droods and the old one.

[mabel1015j]

Tomereader/Joanne and i have decided we're soul sisters because our lives have been so similiar, now i see i have many soul sisters here, AKA feminists! Do you remember when Our Bodies, Ourselves first came out it was self- published on newspaper print? And even for us adults, it was considered w/ some controversy.

Just last night i had a wonderful experience in women's history. Women's Way in Philadelphia, which is a "United Way" for women's agencies and issues, give an award each year to the author of a book which advances the dialogue about women's rights. It's given in the name of Ernesta Drinker Ballard who was the first president of Women's Way. W'sW was started in the 70's when the United Way of Phila was giving very little money to women's agencies and projects. Ballard was a dynamo for women in PHila, in many areas of life.

The winner of the award last night was Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, the author of sev'l books about colonial women, but is most famous for putting a phrase in a journal article in the 1970's about colonial funerals that said "well-behaved women seldom make history!" That phrase has been picked up and used on every surface - t-shirts, mugs, pens, banners, etc. etc. and is the title of her latest book.  This book focuses on Christine de Pisan, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Virginia Woolf, but goes on to chapters entitled "Shakespeare's Daughters," the Amazons," Slaves in the Attic," and others. She is really talking about all of us ordinary women who "make" history w/out ever having our names in history books. Gerda Learner has said everyone is making history. Do you think she's right?

I say to my students that everyone whose name is in a history book was/is a radical. Do you agree? They weren't behaving as normal, everyday people, or thay would not be noticed enough for us to still know their names.

Another of Ulrich's books i enjoyed was "The Age of Homespun." That was her first book and was about colonial women.

jean

[PatH]

I'm glad to learn that "Our Bodies Ourselves" is still going strong.  When it first came out, the only place you could find it around here was funky little health food stores, but then it really took off--the first book to fill an important need.

[Persian]

There may be some new posters appearing in The Library soon.  This week I did two presentations on Afghan culture at a local library's BookEnds group in connection with Greg Mortenson's Three Cups of Tea.  During the open discussion, I took the opportunity to mention this site to the audience, encouraged people to explore it, and make some new friends who share their book discussion interests.

I have spoken many times in the past about the richness of learning and friendships in the former SN.  This week I took advantage of a "rapt" audience (joking, of course) to talk a little bit about this site.  Several of the members of my audience are long-time experienced world travelers (two IBM retired executives come to mind) and, like me, retired from universities.  They were eager to learn about this site, explore new cyber learning opportunities and possible new friends.  I also mentioned the several book discussion groups.

Mahlia

[Sandy]

   March is Women’s History Month.  We have never gotten our due, from Eve on up.  Elizabeth Stanton and her coterie wrote a feminist interpretation of the Bible called “The Woman’s Bible” which is wonderful reading and which puts Eve in a favorable light. Eve, she tells us was the smarter of the two, more intellectually curious and so ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.
The Middle Ages gave us extraordinary women such as Hildegaard of Bingen, a noted theologian, philosopher, musician and Margaret Hroswitha of Gandersheim who wrote verse, history  and is credited with having written the first play in Europe.
Christine de Pisan (14th century) wrote “The City of Women” in which she called for women’s rights.  She has been called the first feminist.  Her writings are readily available.   
The Renaissance brought horror to women.  The Great Witch Hunts of the 15-17 centuries brought death and destruction to  so-called witches, many of whom were midwives and healers.  It is estimated that 200,000 women were murdered.
   The modern age produced women scientists.  Marie Curie along with her husband Pierre won Nobles prizes for their discovery or radium and yet I have heard grumbling from male chauvinist pigs and piglets that her husband was the one who really discovered radium. During the First World War, Marie Curie toured the battlefields with a portable X-ray machine saving countless  .
   Rosalyn Franklin was ignored for the Noble prize although she worked with Crick and Watson decoding DNA and yet was ignored.
   There are a number of books that I would like to recommend
That deal with women’s history.
A History of Their Own, vol. 1& 2, by Bonnie Anderson, Judith Zinssi

The writings of Christine de Pisan
The Treasure of the City of Ladies

Madam Curie, Eve Curie

Uppity Women  (this is great fun)   Vickie Leon
Ancient times
Medieval
Renaissance

Century of Struggle, Flexner & Fitzpatrick

Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right, Linda Gordon  ( a good source of information on women’s reproductive rights)

Malleus Malificarum ( The Hammer of Witches, Spenger & Kramer)
This was written by two Dominican monks in the 15th century and deals with the question of identifying witches.  It reads like a source book on abnormal psychology, but it is fascinating.

[Sandy]

   March is Women’s History Month.  We have never gotten our due, from Eve on up.  Elizabeth Stanton and her coterie wrote a feminist interpretation of the Bible called “The Woman’s Bible” which is wonderful reading and which puts Eve in a favorable light. Eve, she tells us was the smarter of the two, more intellectually curious and so ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.
The Middle Ages gave us extraordinary women such as Hildegaard of Bingen, a noted theologian, philosopher, musician and Margaret Hroswitha of Gandersheim who wrote verse, history  and is credited with having written the first play in Europe.
Christine de Pisan (14th century) wrote “The City of Women” in which she called for women’s rights.  She has been called the first feminist.  Her writings are readily available.   
The Renaissance brought horror to women.  The Great Witch Hunts of the 15-17 centuries brought death and destruction to  so-called witches, many of whom were midwives and healers.  It is estimated that 200,000 women were murdered.

Uppity Women  (this is great fun)   Vickie Leon
Ancient times
Medieval
Renaissance

Your post made fascinating reading. There are quite a few of the women I would enjoy reading about. The Middle Ages has always been of  special interest to me, but I don't really know why.
Uppity Women is an irresistible title. Must check that one out. Bet it was fun to write.

Sandy

[JoanP]

This is a response to Bellemere's question posted yesterday in Introductions...

Hi Bellemere - I'm not a twin like Pat is, but did take part in the discussion of this book (Thirteenth Tale) , which we were fortunate to have archived.  The only problem is that the Archived text is quite small.  Are you able to increase the font size on your monitor - bottom right, over the time?  If so, you might want to scroll down through the discussion to the last section - Feb. 20.
Not sure if your ghost question will be addressed...I don't  remember there was one - this is a gothic tale, like Woman in White, so there could have been one...

"I have fallen into the habit of interpreting every movement out of the corner of my eye as evidence of their presence." (from Thirteenth Tale)

I'll stop in the Library later - but in the meantime - here's the discussion - remember it was a month long, so you may want to scroll down to Feb. 20 or so...

Archived Thirteenth Tale Discussion

[Steph]

Its so nice to read that many of you feel as I do about Our Body..OurSelves.. I always feel that as a reader, I am in such a minority with others around me. That is how seniornet and now seniorlearn helps me. I can reach out and read about all of you. Makes life somehow sweeter to know all around the world, there are many other women like me.

[Babi]

Yes, LUCKY, I have read about Pope Joan, though after doing so I was still unsure whether to believe the story.  I decided it needed a grain of salt. 

"I have fallen into the habit of interpreting every movement out of the corner of my eye as evidence of their presence." (from Thirteenth Tale)

 
 JOANP, my peripheral vision is quite good, and if I interpreted
 every movement there as ghosts, I'd have to acknowledge a numerous ghostly presence in my life. I think I would enjoy "The Thirteenth Tale", tho'. I'll
see if my library has it.

[JoanP]

Babi, if your library doesn't have it, I'll send you my copy. (Thirteenth Tale, not Pope Joan!)

[Babi]

My library does have it, JOAN, and I checked it out yesterday morning.

Speaking of Dan Simmons and Drood, I found a review of that book in 'Bookpage', a paper my library offers free to patrons.  The reviewer had commented that Simmons is one of those writers who does well in a number of genres. He goes on to say that in "Drood", he seems to use them all!
   "Drood is at once an intimate view of the amours of two beloved Victorian writers, and extensive and meticulously researched piece of English historical fiction, a fantasy of doppelgangers and Egyptian rites, a quaint exercise in 19th-century science fiction.., a dark and bloody detective story, a novel of purest horror..and the latest in a long line of impossible efforts to finish Dickens last, unfinished novel..."

   Frankly, I don't know whether to be intrigued or appalled! 

[PatH]

Sounds great to me, Babi.

[JoanP]

Babi, I would like to wait until March 19 when Matthew Pearl's Drood story - the Last DIckens comes out --and compare the two, wouldn't you?

[Steph]

I remember at least one book on Pope Joan. I was left still unsure of what actually happened. But then the early Popes are truly different than the current ones.

[catbrown]

uh, JOANP, what was this idea you had about Edwin Drood? Babi
Babi - Actually I had two thoughts about Drood.  When you said you felt you knew enough to guess how it must have ended, I thought it would be fun to read and discuss it (not sure how far Dickens got with it before his death - did you say he was over half finished?)...and then everyone come up with an ending.

Then I thought about the two authors who recently wrote mysteries on Drood - Dan Simmons, Drood and Matthew Pearl's Last Dickens.   I wonder what brought about this sudden interest?   I know Matthew would come in and talk about his book with us again as he did Poe Shadow and Dante Club.  Maybe we could read Dickens' Drood first, then come up with our own ending...and finally, read and discuss Matthew's book with him.  It would be interesting to see how he treated Drood, I think.  You can bet it would be a very different twist on Dickens..

I just finished reading Dan Simmon's "Drood," and have to say that it's a very, very strange book. It's very post-modern in that it's told from the point of view of a most unreliable narrator, so you don't really know which fantastic event is "true" and which is not. I kept reading, not so much for the somewhat ridiculous story, but because it's filled with biographical details about both Dickens and Wilkie Collins (who is the so very unreliable narrator). My overall take is that it's a failure as a novel, but since I read all 765 (or so) pages, something must have kept me glued. Anyone else read it?

Also, I have on my bookshelf a "finished" version of "The Mystery of Edwin Drood" published in 1980, which from my check on Amazon appears to be no longer in print. Anyway, I would be up for re-reading "Drood" as part of a group and then going on to "The Last Dickens."

Cathy

[lucky]

One of our most honored women politicians was Frances Perkins, the first woman member of a presidential cabinet.  She has been called “the most dangerous woman in America”.  She was the “most dangerous woman” in American because she championed the underdog.  She was the most dangerous woman in American because she was the architect of the Social Security act.  In l934 she was the first to advocate health insurance as part of the Social Security Act.  She fought for u unions, decent wages, and child labor laws. Despite hate mail, harsh treatment by the press and a resolution of impeachment against her because she refused to enforce immigration laws  she nevertheless  fought for the little man/woman.  She fought for unemployment insurance, minimum wage laws, maximum hours, and safety regulation.  A pioneer in labor reform, she served twelve years as Secretary of Labor, the second  longest term of any cabinet member in history.  Perkins was intimately involved in developing many of the New Deal measures, including the CCC, the development of FERA and the NIRA which contained a substantial federal public works program, the PWA  (Public Works Administration) which provided work for many of our unemployed population.  She was indeed a woman of valor.

[lucky]

I neglected to speak of Women's History month when I posted my piece about Frances Perkins.  I think she has been largely forgotten which is a shame.  My little piece is in her honor not only as a great woman but as a great American.

[bellemere]

Mt. Holyoke College, the alma mater of Frances Perkins, established athe Frances Perkins program for older women returning to college for an undergraduate degree.  It includes substantial financial and child care assistance for those accepted.  I live not far from Mt. Holyoke, and a friend of my daughter was one of the first in the program.  She went on to law school, andpractices here in Western Mass.

[Babi]

I don't know, JOAN. From Cat's review of the book, I don't think I would like it.
Matthew Pearl's book is still an option, tho'.

Thanks for the post on Frances Perkins, LUCKY. I'd heard of her before, but had no idea how much we owe to her work. I'm glad to see Bellemarie's notice that Mt. Holyoke, at least, has done something in her honor.

[mabel1015j]

Perkins birthday is Apr 10, we should declare Apr 10 Frances Perkins Day here and think about the issues that she championed on that day................any body want to take bets on our remembering to do that   .................i'll put it on my computer calendar and maybe i can recall this on Apr 10 ................. wish me luck  .................thanks for remembering her Lucky.............jean

[Aberlaine]

Hi Bellemere - I'm not a twin like Pat is, but did take part in the discussion of this book (Thirteenth Tale) , which we were fortunate to have archived.  The only problem is that the Archived text is quite small.  Are you able to increase the font size on your monitor - bottom right, over the time?  If so, you might want to scroll down through the discussion to the last section - Feb. 20.

I'll stop in the Library later - but in the meantime - here's the discussion - remember it was a month long, so you may want to scroll down to Feb. 20 or so...

Archived Thirteenth Tale Discussion

Thanks so much for the link to the archived discussions.  I had the archives at SeniorNet bookmarked, but the website has disappeared.  Good to know that some of the discussions were saved.

[marjifay]

Lucky, thanks for your post regarding Frances Perkins.  I vaguely remember her when I was young, but only knew she was FDR's Secretary of Labor.  I see my library has a new book about her, THE WOMAN BEHIND THE NEW DEAL; THE LIFE OF FRANCES PERKINS by
Kirsten Downey.  Sounds very interesting and has received very good reviews from Amazon readers.

[mabel1015j]

Marj - another book for my TBR list, thanks for mentioning it...............

Hey! You kindle uses! Did you hear V.P Cheney say he has one now - on an interview on CNN this morning, he said he now has a blackberry and a kindle! ....................jean

[maryz]

Oh, yuck!  jean, you didn't have to tell me that.

[pedln]

MaryZ    , some things are without gender, politics, religion, race, and even approval ratings.

[maryz]

pedln, of course, you're right. 

[BarbStAubrey]

Wheee a NEW DISCUSSION - in fact an whole new area of discussion - we pushed this through quickly - this was ONLY thought about the past Tuesday or Wednesday but  here we are - as soon as I have links or know how to use them I will bring the links to this discussion

The discussion is a two for -  yep a twin discussion - the main discussion will be to explore Humor Wit and Satire in Literature but to narrow it down we chose the short story -

Each middle of the month there will be a new short story to read ON-LINE that encapsulates either Humor Wit or Satire or all three - lots of great authors like Mark Twain and Wells and Eudora Welty - the list goes on - and so for 10 days each month we will explore one of these short stories while learning  how writers make  us laugh or get a message across without beating us over the head by using satire or their wits using language.

I am really excited and hope you will look in - WE START TOMORROW - can you believe TOMORROW - and sun comes up tomorrow as the song goes - we strike while the iron is  hot around here - and the story is tra la la laaa a P.G.Wodehouse story - do I see a smile already? - one of his early Bertie Wooster and Jeeves tales called  Jeeves in the Springtime - hope to see you tomorrow.

[Steph]

Cheyney... Oh me, that puts a kindle far down on my list. To have anything that man likes is a bit more than I can deal with. only time in my life that I have actively disliked a politician.
Short stores.. Hmm. got to think of that one.

[Judy Laird]

Steph its way too good for you to pass up because of "that man"
Besides it takes some doing to figure it out and get to all the hidden things that are in there.

Besides that someone would have to help him because he REALLY couldn't do it by himself.