Elephant's Journey by Jose Saramago ~ November Bookclub Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  everyone is welcome to join in.

The Elephant's Journey
by Jose Saramago

"History attests that in 1551, an elephant made the journey from Lisbon to Vienna, escorted first by officers of King João III of Portugal, then by officers of the Archduke Maximilian of Austria. Solomon the elephant and his mahout had already made a long sea voyage from Goa and spent a couple of years standing about in a pen in Lisbon, before setting off for Valladolid as a present from the king to the archduke, who travelled with him to Italy by ship and across the Alps to Vienna. In the novel, Solomon and his mahout Subhro (whom the archduke renames, with true Habsburg infelicity, Fritz) proceed through various landscapes at an unhurried pace, attended by various functionaries and military men, and meeting along the way with villagers and townsfolk who variously interpret the sudden enigma of an elephant entering their lives. And that's the story. It is extremely funny. Old Saramago writes with a masterfully light hand, and the humour is tender, a mockery so tempered by patience and pity that the sting is gone though the wit remains vital."  - Ursula K Le Guin

Discussion Schedule:  
Nov. 1 ~ 7  pages 1-46
   Nov. 8 ~ 14  pgs. 47-100
       Nov. 15 - 21  pgs. 101- 154
       Nov. 22 - 30  Final week   

   

*****

Some Topics for Consideration
Nov. 22 - 30 

1.  What was the mahout's more grievous offence, training the elephant to kneel before the basilica in Padua, knowing he was creating a "false miracle" or selling the elephant's hair for profit -  to cure baldness?   Do you see his relationship with Solomon changing after this?

2.  Why is the archduke  concerned that word of the "miracle" will reach Trent?      What did you understand by the reference to   his "painful melancholy" What is his relationship with the hierarchy gathered in Trent?
 
3. Did you notice the narrator's comment regarding a storyteller's use of periods, and sometimes even a comma?  Are you getting used to their absence in Saramago's novel? 

4. Was the act of heroism, saving the little girl,  due to Suleiman's quick thinking, or did  his mehout prod him to do it?  What was the outcome for the elephant and his mehout?

5.  Do you believe, as the narrator tells us, that history is selective?  Why is it better to be a novelist? What does he mean when he calls the novelist a "liar"?

6. As he considers the political situation in Europe, is it understandable why  Fritz is worried about his future in Vienna?  Why does he think of himself as a parasite?  Do you think Soloman notice if he was replaced?      

Contact:  Joan P

[JoanP]

Oh my, Jude...maybe we will have to read Don Quixote again!  There's always  something new in Cervantes! You simply must move him to the top of your MUST-READS.  Now you have left us to compare Cervantes and Saramago!

I'm thinking of those barbs that you see  aimed at many targets.  Perhaps as many targets as there are human follies?  And yet, I don't really see a vindictive or aggressive attack - but rather a humorous, tongue-clucking sort of cynicism.  I think he was a quite reserved and broader in scope  in his criticism - maybe this is why the tag, Saramago-Lite?

I noted this review a while back - I think the author's comments fit into this way of looking at the journey - As you have noted before, this author makes the same point -
"the journey is by far the most important component of this novel. Solomon’s role is less to bring meaning to the story than it is to provide context for the actions and motivations of its human characters.

The main focus here is how ridiculous and short-sighted human behavior can become when it is invisibly channeled by social and cultural forces. Human folly is the true raging beast in the novel

The compassion and love for a flawed humanity he brings to his work is much too rare in a literary world and broader society that seem to devalue these qualities at a time when they are desperately needed."
http://calitreview.com/11593

Do you see Saramago including himself in  "flawed humanity"?

[BarbStAubrey]

uwww I really like this sentence

The main focus here is how ridiculous and short-sighted human behavior can become when it is invisibly channeled by social and cultural forces. Human folly is the true raging beast in the novel

That is one for my Zooey wall.

With the comments made about hot water for the Archduke while others did what they could with ice cold river water the phrase often heard describing the greater percentage of humanity as 'the great unwashed' has real meaning - loved his description and logic to why the Archduke would not enter Vienna from the boat.

So glad you included that book review - I liked his way of assessing this book and he did it without being clever or witty - and yes, I agree this book can be enjoyed on so many levels including as a tale read to children.

I'm thinking that this Peter Brueghel painting, although from 1567 would give us a glimpse of what it must have been like in the snow covered villages of Austria - http://breughel.8m.net/huntersnow.jpg

Then over 60 years later a Franz Hals of some folks above the peasant category but not on the level of the Archduke or the King of Portugal -
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/h2/h2_14.40.605.jpg

Oh and look our Archduke painted by Beck von Leopoldsdorf - http://www.wga.hu/art/b/beck/maximili.jpg
and here is his father, Emperor Ferdinand I, 1550-55 - http://www.wga.hu/art/b/bocksber/ferdinan.jpg

ah and the often pregnant Maria in 1555 with her eldest daughter - http://www.wga.hu/art/s/seiseneg/archduch.jpg

and talk about lush - my oh my what we would give for vegetables free of pesticide that look like this today - not painted much later - 1564 - Beuckelaer - http://www.wga.hu/art/b/beuckela/market_w.jpg

Ok here we are Home Sweet Home - Vienna 1559 -
http://www.wga.hu/art/b/bellotto/3/bello303.jpg

View from the Palace in 1559 -
http://www.wga.hu/art/b/bellotto/3/bello302.jpg

[BarbStAubrey]

Couldn't quite figure it out but Saramago sounded like he thought that Fritz the mahout stayed with the elephant and according to this excerpt from Plimpton's book The Elephant that Walked Vienna the king was away much of the time and there were no Indian caretakers left and so the elephant died of neglect.

http://tiny.cc/myurs

[BarbStAubrey]

aha so this is how the road may have looked - this is the Danube in 1525 -
http://www.wga.hu/art/a/altdorfe/1/3danube.jpg

[JoanK]

BARB: thanks so much for the pictures.

Now we have a third version of what happened to the mahout. barb's link said that all the Indians died, and there was no one to look after the elephant.

Perhaps it's best if we just cut off the story when he gets to vienna, and consider it a story of a journey. after all, it's better to travel than arrive.

[BarbStAubrey]

I like that Joan - the Journey which is in keeping with the title...

[JudeS]

Barb
You are a serious researcher. Thanks for all the art!

Many novels are based on journies. The essence is the journey itself. We are alone with the characters as we read. Our imagination furnishes much of the background . This is the story of a journey which I thoroughly enjoyed. I am wiser than before I read  Elephants Journey.
I certainly can't say that about every book I read.
You have all added perspectives I had not thought of. So my knowledge has grown even more.
I will never forget the elephant Solomon or the Mahout Subhro.They are unforgettable. For me, that is the mark of a good story. Even though the outcome is   sad the journey itself was mind bending.

[JoanP]

Yes, Jude - both Saramago's story and all of you have made Solomon's journey a memorable one.  It was you who kept us focused on the journey, while others dove into the historical, political and religious foundation of the story.  I think this made the experience such a rewarding one. Thank you!  Thank you, everyone!

Oh goodness, Barbara, you have pushed so many buttons this morning as I look at the artwork, and the excerpt from George Plimpton's book of stories told at the Explorers' Club.  I gather  the story of Suleiman's long journey was quite well-known through the ages -
I have a good George Plimpton story - will save for another time.  Plimpton loved a good story.  Remember when we were talking about Saramago and his relationship with his grandfather?  He loved his storytelling too, from the time he was a boy....

Recently I read a comment from Saramago regarding his lack of punctuation.  Did you ever get used to it?  I know this is what scared away a number of those who had planned to join us on this journey.  Recently I read that  Saramago urged the reader to “hear” his novels by reading them aloud, rather than silently.I wish I had known that earlier!  If you read a few passages aloud, you get the rhythm and the meaning and from then on, you are good to go.  Remember that if you pick up another of his books in the future.

From George Plimpton's telling of the story:  

"The elephant, bereft of proper keepers, all of the Indians having apparently departed, died of neglect on Dec. 18, 1553, to the grief of its. owner."

JoanK, maybe you understood that to mean  that the Indians had departed departed this life?  I guess it could have meant that, I read another version of the story this morning - I'll see if I can find it...I think there were two mahouts in this one...but they BOTH left town before Solomon died...

[JoanP]

This is from someone's blog - he seems to have much factual knowledge of the actual journey.  It lacks Salamago's portrayal of the characters, the elephant and his impact on those along the way.  In other words it is lacking the very elements that made Saramago's story  memorable. If you want to read the whole thing, the link is at the bottom of this post...

"This is the sad story of Soliman the Elefant, one that is quite familiar to Europeans of an older era, and they are reminded of it constantly by museums, pictures, hotels where Maximillian stayed and where the elephant is still being proudly shown off in a sculpture or a picture

To summarize, its voyage took it from Malabar to Goa, thence to Losbon, from there a walk to Valladolid, and a longer walk to Barcelona. Then the voyage to Genova and finally the walk from Genoa to Milano, Mantova, Trent then through the Alps to Brixen, Innsbruck, Tirol, Salzburg, Passau, Linz and finally Vienna. The travel took the time between Summer 1551 to Spring 1552.The total distance covered would have been many thousands of miles, some 7,000 miles from Malabar to Lisbon by sea, 300 miles to Valladolid by walk, 400 miles to Barcelona again walking, 500 miles to Genova by sea and then the arduous walk through the mountains for another 650 miles. In total it covered close to 9,000 miles.

The fresco shows not only the elephant, but also two Indian mahouts wearing Turbans and smocks, holding ankuses.

In January 1552, Soliman crossed over the pass to Innsbruck and after a long trek reached Vienna in March in time for a grand parade on May 7th in Vienna. Not surprisingly the monarch was disgusted by the people lining up to see Soliman, not him or his wife.

The elephant soon endeared itself to the public, after it was put up in a huge shed ‘elefant house # 619” on the corner of Grabenm and Stefensplatz for display (the building was demolished in 1866). In the melee to see the animal, a child in the crowd fell over into the pen (unconfirmed story). Soliman apparently drew a circle around the child with its trunk, lifted the child gently and handed it over to the hysterical mother. The onlookers were spellbound.

 The news coverage it got was even more than the visiting monarch or the queen, wherever they went. But the king soon saw the expenses growing and I understand that the mahouts were sent back home soon after.  With that the poor elephant had by now lost its last two friends, the two who could talk and calm him down now & then or take care of him. Neither was it given the food it wanted nor was it properly cared for."

http://maddy06.blogspot.com/2010/01/soliman-elefant.html

[JudeS]

JoanP
After reading the blog you suggested and watching the short videos the book suddenly turned into a movie in my mind.

Each scene is vivid and fascinating.

Too bad there is no http into my mind.
But perhaps you can make your own movie.

[BarbStAubrey]

I kept following links from the blog thinking I could see this documentary online - not to be but it did lead to a wonderful site - first the bit about the documentary.

http://www.artfilm.ch/rajasreise.php

and the wonderful site - it is all in German but follow the various links - there are all sorts of bits from various concerts, the literature links are great - I know you cannot understand but you can dope out the title and hear the music and see what they are wearing and how the interact with each other and what is going on in Luzern versus Appenzell - the various choral groups are a joy to hear - I spent a couple of hours on this site - it is a window to a world we can only visit if our time and pocket book allows and even then we may not see these events.

http://www.art-tv.ch/47-0-Home.html

[JoanP]

"After reading the blog you suggested and watching the short videos the book suddenly turned into a movie in my mind.
Each scene is vivid and fascinating."  JudeS

Jude, exactly!  A good way to put it.  Each vivid scene portrayed interaction with different groups of people - from the,  villagers, the poor porters, the royalty, the parish priest, the archbishop, immigrants, militia ...  Each responded to Solomon in a different way.  I was especially impressed with the good-bye scenes when the porters left the convoy - and the commanding officer.  They were moving.  We never did know what Solomon was thinking, but those goodbyes showed what he was feeling.

Someone said earlier, perhaps it was you, Barbara, that Solomon represented a curiosity - and that once the curiosity wore off, he was forgotten.  I would think that after the long  and difficult trek, that would have been the case with the porters and the commanding officer.   BUT, it was just the opposite.  Curiosity had turned into affection.

I'm wondering now how Solomon would have said goodbye to Subhro, after a lifetime together...  

[JoanP]

Barbara, after reading those links, I came away frustrated at my inability to understand the German language.  Maybe like Subhro must have felt as he rode deeper and deeper into Austrian territory.  He didn't like the sound of the language - felt uncomfortable in his new surroundings.  There were a number of negative comments about the harsh-sounding German words.  Saramago himself, as narrator, drew our attention to his own negative feelings whenever the Austrians or the language were mentioned.  How did you understand his portrayal of the relationship between Portugal and the Austrians?  Sometimes I thought he was referring to the line of secession back in the 16th century and the fragile relationship between the royal families, united by marriage.  But then I began to wonder if Saramago's feelings towards Germany were more contemporary...  What did you think?

[BarbStAubrey]

I think there has always been a pull or push or something between those nations to the South of Europe versus Germany - It was out of what is Germany now that most of the 'hoards' rampaged and took Europe in their grip from the Visigoths to the Saxons. The German language influenced most of Northern Europe including England. The Germanic language does not have the soft vowels of Southern Europe -

Southern Europe was more influenced by Rome both the Empire and the Church and had different historical enemies like the Moors. And so, long before twentieth century history the tension between North and South in Europe was a factor.

Interesting how we all still bristle with national pride - here in the states and by those who view this country it is down to regional pride - to be considered tops in culture, education and business - even morally you gotta be from the Northeast - from California maybe - your OK if you are from any of the mountain states - the jokes start with the mid-west and then land full force if you are from the South - even southerners know to make fun of themselves. And so we all jockey for a sense of worth and in the US the closer to the NY and Boston the more respect.  ah so... I think this is the cloud Saramago was working under - the concept most of us have of Portugal is that it is a cheap place to retire. Certainly, we do not see Portugal with the same power or influence of Austria that now we associate closely with Germany and in 1551 was all one.

The sites I can never dope out are both the Arab and the Russian sites - even when they Anglicize the language I cannot make heads or tales of any of it - probably because I have the least knowledge of their culture, authors, music, theologians  etc. A few that the west has proclaimed but the greats we have decided upon are a drop in the vast greats proclaimed by both the Arab and the Russian culture.

Interesting that Saramago still rides the Austrians when it was and still is the Germanic culture that rebels against the very church and its hierarchy that Saramago finds riddled with less than admirable qualities. ah so... no accounting for our view of how we want others to act...

Funny how I never noticed the lack of punctuation till you posted and I looked more closely - I liked that every time there was another voice a capitol letter was used - but I didn't find the lack of punctuation and paragraphs a barrier -   too many emails that seem to forget the normal rules of English.

The best for me reading this book was finding out more history that still blows my mind how easily a summery of what happens takes on significance without the back story and without all the fact so that a whole new picture of what was going on emerges in our collective history banks.

I remember reading one of his books a few years ago - something about him being a copywriter or editor and the teller of the story of some huge battle in the history of Portugal that the historian he was I guess editing had many incorrect facts and use of historical tidbits that were not yet known to man - again a direct critique on the Bible and the many stories that were inserted as the books were hand copied and other inaccuracies that remain because as he realized with the history the power of the event falls apart with the truth.

I prefer reading this kind of truth telling written as a farce but Saramago does it well without the humor of the French or English. Now that is magic to take irony and sarcasm and to turn it into humor - for that give me Trollope any day, especially the Barchester Chronicles. Oh dear and our holy days pepper the calender for the next few weeks - ah so... have a happy... and many thanks - this was a stimulating book and I really enjoyed our month -

[JoanK]

I can't believe this month is over already. Reading this book has been a great eexperience: I'll certainly read more of him. JOANP, thank you so much for the wonderful job you did, finding things for us to think about, and ways to look at things. And BARBARAs research really helped too. We are the greatest group ever!

[kidsal]

Although I was unable to participate the last three weeks, I enjoyed the book very much and am glad it was offered.

[JoanP]

kidsal, there you are!  We've missed you.  Have you finished the book?  If not, I suggest you follow the discussion as you read - there's quite a bit of information that shed needed light on the historical period in which Solomon took his journey.  

JoanK,  that's what it has been - an experience!  Almost as if we've been on the journey along with Solomon.  I found myself questioning some of my own beliefs as we walked together.  Saramago had a way of making this happen - a gentle way, hinting and suggesting - always with humor.

Barbara, well said -  
"I prefer reading this kind of truth telling written as a farce but Saramago does it well without the humor of the French or English. Now that is magic to take irony and sarcasm and to turn it into humor."  
Did you sense, as I did, that the sarcasm was never directed at the reader, always at someone else, but in a way that you somehow felt included in the criticism?  I think that is an art.
Thanks for all you brought to this discussion!  Not an easy book to read alone and fully appreciate on so many different levels.  We needed one another to bounce our ideas back and forth!

[PatH]

I found this an easy book to read, but a difficult book to talk about.  And though it was easy on one level, it was a lot of work to go down deeper.  JoanP, I thought you did an amazing job of digging and finding meanings.  Barb, your knowledgeable, deep expositions of the religious issues and your historical research opened up some levels I would have missed completely.  With all of us working together, Judy and JoanK putting in their pithy points, we got so much out of the book.  And it sure was fun.  Thank you.

[JoanP]

With all of us working together... it sure was fun.

An excellent concluding statement, PatH!  Fun and rewarding.  Hope to see you all again in the Ship of Fools discussion in January.  I think you'll find it full of unexpected surprises.  (I guess all surprises are "unexpected," aren't they! )