Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard - March Book Club Online

[HaroldArnold]

March Book Club Online

Destiny of the Republic
Candice Millard

A New York Times Notable Book of 2011 - "One of the many pleasures of Candice Millard’s new book, Destiny of the Republic, is that she brings poor Garfield to life—and a remarkable life it was…..Fascinating… Outstanding….Millard has written us a penetrating human tragedy.” -  - The New York Times Book Review

"A passionate abolitionist, Garfield was not only hailed a hero in the Civil War, but was a fierce champion of the rights of freed slaves. At the same time, he was a supremely gifted scholar who had become a university president at just 26 years of age, and, while in Congress, wrote an original proof of the Pythagorean Theorem.

With each diary entry and letter I read, each research trip I took, Garfield came more clearly and vividly to life. It was not until I visited the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Washington, D.C., however, that I began to understand the extent of the suffering that Garfield, and the nation with him" - Candice Millard

Discussion Leaders:   Ella  & Harold

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Joan and all regarding the functioning of the Government during G.s confinment:  I too wonderd about this particularly what Congress was doing?  The following Wikipedia link shows that the 47th Congress was in session but no major legislation became law during the period.  I suspect that Garfield approved routine legislative acts since he was most often conscious with a gopod measure of his mental capacity intact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_United_States_Congress#Major_events

[JoanK]

It was very interesting to me the pains they took to get him there. I'm sure he loved being able to see the sea at the end.

As a child, my family used to summer on Long Beach Island, NJ. Is Long branch near there?

[Ella Gibbons]

Good questions, HAROLD!

I must go back to the book - I just realized that this is our last week, am I correct?  Is March coming to an end.  What a March!!!  How warm it's been in Ohio, in the 70's.  Strange weather all around the country.

I remember that Garfield had a very good secretary or assistant, a young fellow I think.  I'll look him up.  He, no doubt, could take care of the mundane tasks of government and as HAROLD said Garfield could have made some decisions up until the end.

I understand that it is not at all right to compare today with yesteryear, particularly with the late 19th century, but in thinking of Dr. Bliss, the doctor who took over the care of the president, I am reminded that today with our specialists there would have been quite a different scene.  Think of it!  And in no way would a president be taken to the White House.

And I doubt if  any would be taken to Walter Reed Army Hospital today either!  Of course, they probably have cleaned that up considerably, wouldn't you  have imagined??

We've hardlly mentioned Lucretia, Garfield's wife.  From what I have read in the book I would have liked her, wouldn't you?

Back later............

[JoanK]

"And I doubt if  any would be taken to Walter Reed Army Hospital today either!"

Heads of state were taken there when I worked there 20 years ago. It was the outbuildings, not the hospital, that were infected. The building where I worked had cockroaches as big as mice.

[HaroldArnold]

Ella see your Reply #168 above about shortening the discussion by one week per our e-mail discussion last week.  That would be Friday, March 23.  Now I suggest that we hold it open through the following Monday (1 week from today, March26th).  We here at Chandler have a day trip this Friday, March 23 to visit the hill country North of Fredricksbutg TX to see the blue bonnet that are back this year in large numbers after last year's drought. Lets close it then any time after 6:00 PM march 26th.

[HaroldArnold]

Regarding Civil War Military Medicine it was pretty much the luck of the draw.  One of my great Grandfather's brothers died of dysentery in an army field hospital.  It wasn't a rebel bullet that dropped him, it was U.S. Army chow.  Despite the poor recovery odds, our book pointed out that in 1881 there were hundreds of civil war veterans living with a bullet tucked away somewhere in the body cavity.

[HaroldArnold]

We need to discuss Guiteau's mental outlook on the day of the shooting.  I think he really believed that he would be received  as a hero after the President's death..  Apparently on the morning of the shooting he even sent a letter to General Sherman telling his plans including the prison where he wanted to be held for a while to protect him from possible lynch mob. violence .  He also made arrangements with a carriage driver to take him to the prison of his choice immediately after the shooting.  His long term plans included marriage, and a respected leadership career in post Garfield America. His plans even included a future run for U.S. Presidency. I do not doubt that as the prison door slammed shut behind him that afternoon he had no doubt that in a few days he would emerge a free man, the hero of the nation.  

[Ella Gibbons]

Yes, he was definitely insane, HAROLD! 

We will be closing this discussion very soon and we want to thank all who participated!!! 

If you stop by, tell us if you enjoyed the book!!

Would you recommend it to a friend?

THANK YOU AGAIN, AND WE HOPE TO SEE YOU IN ANOTHER NONFICTION BOOK IN THE FUTURE!!

[dean69]

Yes, Harold, I believe Guiteau thought he would be called a hero with monuments erected to honor him.  One always thinks of what might have been.  Garfield might have become one of the great presidents such as Lincoln or Roosevelt, but we will never know because of Guiteau's deed and the doctors' incompetence.  

I have enjoyed this discussion.  Although I have not been as active as some others, I have learned much from their comments.  I would enjoy reading and discussing more nonfiction books. Many thanks to the leaders.

[maryz]

We didn't get to any discussion about Guiteau's trial.  As with Douglas being at Garfield's inauguration, I was surprised that  there was a black man on the jury.  Blacks were systematically excluded from juries for quite a long time, but I guess that started a little later.

Anyhow, it was a good discussion, and thanks for picking the book.  I enjoyed it, and probably wouldn't have picked it up without the prospect of the conversation here.

[JoanK]

"Blacks were systematically excluded from juries for quite a long time, but I guess that started a little later,"

There was a period after the Civil War when blacks had more rights than later. Also, the trial would have been in the District of Columbia (the DC of Washington, DC), which, being outside of all the States, has it's own laws. They may have been more liberal than the laws elsewhere. (Although I noticed that one of Garfieeld's accomplishments was to change the DC law that said that all negro men found outside had to carry passes. So maybe DC wasn't THAT liberal.

Saying the District of Columbia reminds me: when I moved to California, I had to show my birth certificate. When she saw that I had been born in the District of Columbia she aske "Where is that? Alabama?

I've enjoyed this discussion a lot and appreciated the opportunity to learn history that I knew nothing about. Keep up the good work, Ella and harold.

[HaroldArnold]

Regarding Insanity Plea's, I think that in the U.S. and particularly in my state, Texas they are verry hard to sustaine.  In particular I remember a 1950's local case in which the defence used 5 or silx renown psycholgists each of whom testified the defendant was insane under the statute defination.  The main witness for the prosecution was the Sheriff of Bexas County who testfied, "He seems sane to Me."
The jury returned its verdict , Guility, 1st degree murder, sentence Death in the Electric Chair.

In Europe too there were a number of high profile killings of Royals including a King of Spain and a Czar of  Russia.   I don't know how the killer's faired but I suspect if they were caught, it wassn't pleasant.  In England there were a total of 5 attempts on the life of Queen Victoria during the course of her long reign.  I don't think any of these resulted in a death sentence but of course they never killed her.  As I remember it, 1 or 2 of these an insanity plea was sustained resulting in confinment in an assalum instead of a prision.  Probably not much different.  

If any of you want to go deeper in this subject go to Wikipedia and search on Queen Victoria or Insanity Plea's in Murder cases.









for the Procequ

[HaroldArnold]

I think now that our present plan is to close this discussion this coming Monday afternoon  (about 4:00 PM EST).  There is at least one more major point concerning the results of the Garfield/ Arthur Administratsion that requires our discussion.  This of course concerns the changing position of President Arthur that transformed him from Conkling's go too guy for enforcement  of Stalwart policy, to a reformer President that even Garfield could be proud of.  How did this change come about and what major piece of reform legislation emerged before the term ended.

[JoanK]

I was wondering about that, too. If you remember, Truman was considered a party machine hack when he was chosen Veep, but his administration didn't show it.

[HaroldArnold]

I remember taking an economics history course  at Trinityand one of the Chapters in the text was about the first federal Civil Service legislation that was Signed By President Arthur.  I vaguely remember the fact that his approval of it came as a surprise in view of his strong previous support of the "Spoil System" past.  I don't remember it discussing Garfield's Murder or the reason for his change that were certainly made clear in our book.  Isn't it interesting how some lady citizen took on herself to correspond with Aurthur urging him too conduct his presidency as Garfield might have done?  Conkling of course was furious but
Arthur approve the Bill serving some 3 1/2 years of the 4 year term after which he retired from Politics to die in just a couple of years.

Living here at this seniors only Apartment on the near north side of San Antonio is interesting.  This morning I participated in a 2 mile seniors walk at  Brackenridge park.  Me and my friend Marie Grace completed the 2 miles in 38 minutes.  Tomorow we will have a day trip through the hill country to see and photograph the bluebonnets.  So I'll be out to touch here all day but will check in during the evening.

[JoanK]

Harold: it sounds like you have found a lovely spot. 38 minutes for 2 miles is faster than I was able to do when I was much younger, and 2 minutes faster than army marching speed. Congrats.

Interesting for Arthur: he had his moment in the sun,

[mabel1015j]

Thank you Ella and Howard for all your work in leading the discussion. I wasn't very involved due to only having the book for a short time and this last week we've had a stomach flu running thru the family, so i was playing nurse.

You two always do a good job of keeping us moving along. Thanks again.

Jean