Author Topic: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online - PRE-DISCUSSION  (Read 57477 times)

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #120 on: February 07, 2012, 08:19:29 AM »

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome to join in



FEBRUARY 7 -  As the world watches, Prince Charles and the  Duchess of Cornwall will lay a wreath in the south transept of Westminster Abbey where Charles Dickens is buried,  to comemmorate the bicentenary of one of Britain’s greatest writers.
   
We'll celebrate the day with a COSTUME PARTY - Dress as your favorite Dickens character.  See who can guess your identity!

Announcing Time Magazine's daily countdown rating Dickens' Top Ten Novels. Did you pick BLEAK HOUSE?  
   
Here is a short USA TODAY'S DICKENS  QUIZ - If you post your score, you MIGHT win a prize.  Guesses count!!

Please post below if you will be participating in a discussion of Dickens' BLEAK HOUSE.  We will begin on February 15 with  the first installment - Chapters 1-4.  



  Bleak House
 "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.


DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,   JoanK  




ginny

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #121 on: February 07, 2012, 09:03:16 AM »
Oh what a hoot! Bleak House WON? I am so excited for those of you who voted for it and don't you all have discerning taste to have chosen it before this vote?

I am so impressed with all of you, congratulations!!!!

That just shows you the caliber of our readership here!

Jonathan:

It can't be The Carol. It's too limited in scope. It flashes across the skies like a meteor in late December.

I could not disagree with you more. :) I am not sure, either, Joan K what you mean by it not being a full length novel, it's short? I do see it listed as a novella, but Animal Farm is short too.

I don't know what it IS? But I do think it  has influenced more people (and not coincidentally, our very Christmas customs which were in danger of actually disappearing if you read the history of that celebration) in the last 200 years than Bleak House ever will, but again, I don't know their criteria for "Great."

It meets mine.  hhahaa

 I am so excited that you've chosen Bleak House to read!! That's just amazing! Celebrate your good taste!



Babi

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #122 on: February 07, 2012, 09:43:45 AM »
Alas, or maybe hopefully, not all those things have been left
behind, BARB.  That's quite a profusion of words, too, perfectly
a la Dickens!
  Dress like one of the characters?  Hmm, I really don't have any
appropriate costumes.  A few things close enough to being rags to
pass, I guess.  My only 'long' dress is an Egyptian cotten sheath...in
orange!  

 An interesting news item; made me think of the olden days the we
are now reading about.
  David Cameron: Apprenticeships Are at the Heart of the Economy
We Want to Build
    
Over the past 18 months we've put a massive amount of effort and
investment into strengthening apprenticeships in this country -
and it shows. Last year more than 450,000 people started an
apprenticeship, roughly the same number as those who started in
higher education. The increase on the previous year is a whopping
63%. These are record numbers to reflect a real commitment. The
reason for that commitment is simple - apprenticeships are right at
the heart of the kind of economy we want to build.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

marcie

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2012, 10:43:43 AM »
Hello, all. What a wonderful party! It's so good to see all my fellow Dickens' characters. I can't stay long but I'll take a piece of cake. Not for myself, of course. I will bring it home to my dear father.

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2012, 11:26:55 AM »
Unfortunate circumstances make it impossible for me to be in the same country as the rest of you, but I will think of you from afar (very far afar). ;)

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #125 on: February 07, 2012, 01:14:40 PM »
Not sure who it is that wears a yellow gown at all times - now a white faded to yellow would fit Havisham in Great Expectations but in Bleak House - hmm maybe - no, Lady Dedlock wears a green and white stripped gown and a Burgandy gown - who ever it is she likes to be near food - Now her sister, Lady Barbary wears a wedding dress that has yellowed - hmmm maybe that is who we are welcoming to the party.

Sally your figure all in white reminds me too much of Wilke Collins but onward to Bleak House - maybe Esther when she is ill and housebound - not sure that is fitting though - another clue maybe?

Another clue my character - she regales folks with stories and ominously prophesies Richard's outcome.

Thanks for bringing to us the happenings in London - the photo of the Abbey is wonderful to open the day.

ah Babi just re-read your post - a long orange cotton sheath - hmmm
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #126 on: February 07, 2012, 01:40:04 PM »
My character isn't from Bleak House.  Is that OK?

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #127 on: February 07, 2012, 01:56:36 PM »
aha - thanks for the clue Pat - I just assumed the characters to the party were from Bleak House however the old saying ass- u-me - I can see now that this is a Dickens party not necessarily limited to Bleak House - Ok Pat another clue please...?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #128 on: February 07, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
I can't dress up--I'm a rough and ready sort--but I've plenty of money to send back to you.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #129 on: February 07, 2012, 02:31:17 PM »
OH my - send back - that sounds like you are not living presently in England - that you are making your fortune elsewhere hmmm unless just not in London - are you John Willet?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #130 on: February 07, 2012, 02:56:16 PM »
No, but you're right that I'm not living in England--I dassn't come back.

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #131 on: February 07, 2012, 02:56:27 PM »
Barbara - glad you liked the Westminster Abbey photo - I hope you can see this.  I had to download something in order to see it...but you might be able to see it right off.  It's a video of Charles, laying the wreath - and a reading - from BLEAK HOUSE!

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #132 on: February 07, 2012, 03:18:09 PM »
If I'm not missing anyone, it appears that we have a two-way tie with JoanK and Jonathan guessing Bleak House as Time Magazine's #1.  Good work!  You will share the prize!

If you are planning to read Bleak House, watch out for a spoiler in the blog in which Time explains the reason for choosing BH.  I read it - and wish I didn't.  Don't say you weren't warned!

There'a another opportunity to win a little something...do you see the link to the Quiz in the heading?  Barbara let us know that the link to the quiz isn't working - that's probably the reason no one has entered the little Dickens contest. ;D

I think it's fixed now - try it again - and post your score when you are finished.  The honor system.

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #133 on: February 07, 2012, 03:20:20 PM »
Loving the costumes...will be back later to admire them all.  Poor Babi in those rags - you MUST be poor little Caddy Jellyby!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #134 on: February 07, 2012, 03:26:25 PM »
Do you think that was Max von Sydow looking on or a very good look-a-like...

Whoops got the quote incorrect - I chose the one about not putting a fine point on it... - and so 9 out of 10 - I was not sure another but I guessed correctly and so actually knowing would be 8 out of 10

Oh my is that correct Babi - are you Caddy?
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JudeS

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2012, 03:39:27 PM »
Babi
If you are truly Caddy Jellyby you must not only be in rags but covered in ink with a pen between your teeth.
I'd love to see a photograph.

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2012, 03:51:26 PM »
I got 9 out of 10 too, but a couple were guesses.

JoanK

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »
I'm the Lord High Chancellor from Bleak House, sitting in court "with a foggy glory round his head" (that's my wig -- if I'd remembered it was foggy, I wouldn't have bothered to wash it, but it still has more curls than anyone else's), "softly fenced in with crimson cloth and curtains, ... and outwardly directing his (that is my) contemplation to the lantern on the roof, where he can see nothing but fog."

Don't expect much chit-chat from me during the party. But I may utter a judicial "We shall take it under advisement" from time to time. And if there's a lot of port, i might loosen up a bit.

JoanK

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #138 on: February 07, 2012, 04:07:07 PM »
I got it right! BH first, GH second! I never get these things right.

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2012, 04:27:25 PM »
The LINKS work!  Good - and just to make it clear - guesses COUNT as "right"...  They were "educated" guesses.   I'm so proud of you! 9/10 - both PatH and Barb!  Wow!

 JoanK, that was quite an accomplishment!  You and Jonathan weren't dissuaded by arguemen ts for Great Expectations and Christmas Carol at all!  Congratulations!

nancymc

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2012, 05:13:44 AM »
I was one of the group who voted for Bleak House though I do not usually take part in the book discussions.  It is my favourite Dickens only vying with Pride and Prejudice for top favourite.  I searched for my copy this morning and found it!!!  complete with my name and date of purchase ..."Nancy Moulton (my maiden name) Tuesday 11th May 1948"  I was just finishing school and must have bought it with my pocket money.  The owner before me was " Mabel Ivory, 26th July, 1905".     It says on the fly leaf.  Complete Edition in Twenty-two Volumes with Illustrations by Cruikshank, Phiz etc.  further in it says 40 illustrations by Phiz.  There is a list of the characters and a list of Illustrations

There is a lovely illustration of Miss Jellyby.   
 

I cannot wait to get started.

Nancy

PatH

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2012, 07:50:20 AM »
Nancy, I'm really in for a treat then, since Pride and Prejudice IS my top favorite, and I haven't yet read Bleak House.  I envy you your beautiful copy.

pedln

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2012, 10:25:30 AM »
Sorry I missed the party yesterday.  I spent the day with a friend and her new knee.

Congratulations to all the good pickers -- the twins, Jonathan, anyone else?  As one who was sure BH wouldn't make the cut, I'm eating crow.  But it's tasty crow 'cause I'm really glad BH is Number 1.

Babi

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2012, 10:57:23 AM »
  Actually, I was just explaining the dearth of costumes available
to me for the party.  Now that some have thought of Caddy, I would
certainly be happy to come as that remarkable small lady.
 There's no ink around the place...everything is ball point or computer!  I
could probably manage a pen between my teeth, JUDE. ;)
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2012, 11:04:07 AM »
Pedln, don't feel bad - you had good reason to think that Blink House is not as popular as Great Expectations or Christmas Carol.  The challenge was to guess which of Dickens' novels would place in Time Magazine's top ten.  No one told you that this was not a popularity contest.  I can tell you now that the selections and the rankings were made by Time Magazine's executive editor, Radhika Jones.

Radhika Jones edits many of the magazine’s special issues, including TIME’s Person of the Year and the annual TIME 100, featuring the 100 most influential people in the world.

She holds a Ph.D. in English and Comparative literature from Columbia and has written introductions to Barnes & Noble Classics editions of Great Expectations, David Copperfield, and A Room with a View.

Knowing that, I was as surprised as everyone else (except JoanK and Jonathan) when Great Expectations came in second to Bleak House...though not surprised that this PHD in Literature chose Bleak House over Christmas Carol.
It was fun, I thought - and how very wonderful for us - that we chose Bleak House - in a squeaker - over Great Expectations!  I'm going to write to Radhika this morning and tell her about this and our discussion site.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2012, 11:16:16 AM »
Marvolous JoanP - wonderful to elevate what we do here as a possible interest to someone who edits for Time Magazine - reminds me of how years ago we let our local newspaper know all our happenings.

OK are we going to fess up or how are we going to determine the characters that showed up yesterday dressed to tease our knowledge of Dickens...?

Is there a list of the characters or at least of those who came in costume - gotta run or I would make the list myself...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2012, 11:28:03 AM »
"I cannot wait to get started."

Nancymc - we are so happy that you are here - and cannot wait for you to get started either!  Welcome!  The pre 1948 edition sounds wonderful.  Did young Nancy Moulton underline the pages?

Pedln
asked who won the Dickens' quiz - PatH and Barbara tied, as far as I can see.  Answered 9/10 questions correctly.  There's still a little wiggle room if you or Pedln want to try to beat these two leaders.  You can find the link to the quiz in the header...Good lucK!
 

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2012, 11:31:54 AM »
Barbara...on my way out too - will get back for a closer examination of those costumes later!  Maybe someone else will slip in while we are gone too.

Jonathan

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2012, 02:57:19 PM »
I did feel so inclined and sympathetic with those who picked Christmas Carol as Dickens' best. Especially after being reminded by Ginny that the Carol revived the celebration of Christmas in a very unique way. And Scrooge is, according to a recent Penguin poll the best-known of all Dickens' characters. Scrooge, by stirring up the world of ghosts with his Bah! Humbug!,  made as great a commotion as the heavenly hosts in the sky over Bethlehem with their glorious halleliuahs.

And now, a very crowded coach leaving for Bleak House. Thanks, Barb, for the synopsis of things to come in your post #112. Will we really be leaving all that behind? Let's not get discouraged. Remember Dante and the dire proclamation he found posted at the gate to the Inferno. ' Abandon all hope who enter here.' Wasn't that fun.

Still, some of us will always think of him as 'Carol' Dickens, even if he did plagiarize Dante.

JoanK

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2012, 03:24:58 PM »
Oh, what a headache. Did I drink too much port yesterday? I can't remember. We shall take that under advisement.

JudeS

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2012, 07:07:39 PM »
Newsweek also had an interesting essay on Dickens by Simon Schama. For those unfamiliar with Schama, he is a British Art Historian who is a Professor at Columbia and cultural essayist for the NEW YORKER.  He is the Prize winning author of more than 30 documentaries for BBC and PBS. He has written some wonderful books, including "Rembrandt's Eyes" and "A History of Britain".
I will quote part of  one paragraph:
"We make much of the collapse of English into the squawk of the tweet and the text. To read Dickens now, more than ever, is to experience the opposite: to be caught up in an abundant tumble of words- and in language juicy with the flux of life. Sometimes it's used to drag us to places we would rather not go......... .....in truth he had no program for altering the atrocities of his time beyond  a passionate craving for decency. Out of that simple instinct he made imperishable masterpieces."


JoanK

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2012, 08:21:44 PM »
Schema at his best. I loved "rembrandt's Eyes" (although sometimes wished there wasn't so MUCH of it), and his programs on art for PBS.

Babi

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2012, 08:32:55 AM »
 I finally took time to take that test, and I'm happy to say I did get 9
out of 10.  Truthfully, tho', one of them I think I only got right because
of something someone posted here earlier.  Maybe that doesn't count.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

nancymc

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #153 on: February 09, 2012, 08:37:55 AM »
Just discoverd I have two more old Dickens, one, Martin Chuzzlewit bought by my Alter Ego Nancy Moulton on 29th March 1949, the other Pickwick Papers printed 1911  In the Preface Dickens says "It has been observed of Mr. Pickwick that there is a decided change in his character, as these pages proceed, and that he become more good and more sensible.  I do not think this change will appear forced or unnatural to my readers, if they will reflect that in real life the peculiarities and oddities of a man who has anything whimiscial about him generally impress us first and that it is not until we are better acquainted with him that we usually begin to look below these superficial traits and to know the better part of him"   How true.   Nancy

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #154 on: February 09, 2012, 08:46:20 AM »
Babi - yes indeed, your score counts - and you are part of a 3-way tie with Barbara and PatH...unless someone comes in to top the three of you!

Nancymc - you were a true Dickens' reader as a youngster!  Do you think you purchased these editions from your own pocket money?  I urge you to take the quiz - will copy the link here, since you have just joined us -

Is there anyone else who would like to try...we'll be open for the next day or so...Party on!



Here is a short USA TODAY'S DICKENS  QUIZ - If you post your score, you MIGHT win a prize.  Guesses count!!



ginny

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #155 on: February 09, 2012, 09:19:16 AM »
Johnathan :) Congratulations to you and Joan K, discerning readers both! What a group you have here!

I love Nancy's story of the books. The Simon Schama article that Jude quotes is marvelous, thank you for mentioning it, Jude. His own father,  who was "self educated," spent money saved up  for his first seaside vacation on a "complete Chapman and Hall edition of Dickens that he picked up from a cart vendor on the way to Waterloo station.

"Every Saturday evening he would read aloud to the family, doing all the parts. Occasionally, as I grew a bit, he would let me do Davy, or Oliver, or Jo."

Can you imagine that scene and the impact it must have had on young  Simon? Today he  knows intimately all the Dickens characters. I just can't get this scene out of my head. What a terrific investment  that deferred seaside trip  was.

Frybabe

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #156 on: February 09, 2012, 02:02:12 PM »
Hah! Nine out of ten on the quiz. Surprised me.

Jonathan

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #157 on: February 09, 2012, 03:57:44 PM »
Congratulations, all you high scorers. I did poorly. Too embarrassed to tell you my test result. Count me among Dickens' favorite people, the underprivileged.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #158 on: February 09, 2012, 05:22:21 PM »
Congrats Jonathan your experience was a teaching/learning experience that is so much more valuable don't you think... OK folks we missed it - did anyone look in their collection of cookbooks to see what would be served during a Victorian Party. It looks like the great great grandson of Charles Dickens among his many books includes one about dinning and one about drinking that includes the recipes for the foods mentioned in the stories written by Charles Dickens. Also, there is a book on Amazon of the recipes from Mrs. Dickens' kitchen who the author laments was not treated kindly by history saying she was not such a bad sort at all.

link to Cedric Dickens book on Dinning -
http://www.amazon.com/Dining-Dickens-Cedric/dp/0906552311/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328825100&sr=1-2

OH and all those attributes that were left behind that I can see left behind by the law case were really left because they would make a mess at the party swooping over our heads, perching on the cakes and puddings maybe even covering shoulders of black suit coats with their droppings - and so I keep them all caged up in my rooms which seems appropriate. I wonder if captain Nemo has any left over crumbs from his dinner that he would give to me for my caged friends - shall I knock on his door and ask...? For sure my landlord would not give me a speck of a crumb - it is best that I try to come and go without disturbing him and his daughter.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

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Re: Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online
« Reply #159 on: February 09, 2012, 06:51:49 PM »
Barbara...that just whets my appetite.  I want to learn more!  I tried to find some of the recipes in the great grandson's book...you have to wonder how much he remembers from those days at the Dicken's homestead.  And did he include great grandma's recipes?
 
I did find this book - about Catherine Dickens own household - the write-up  states this book contains recipes, but not a one is mentioned.

 Let's do this - let's keep our eyes opened for any mention of dining at Bleak House and the type of dishes served.

 "Catherine, the wife of Charles Dickens, was herself an author, but of just one book: What Shall we Have for Dinner? Satisfactorily Answered by Numerous Bills of Fare for from Two to Eighteen Persons. As the title indicates, it was a cookery book, in fact a pamphlet containing many suggested menus for meals of varying complexity together with a few recipes. It went through several editions after 1851, under the authorial pseudonym of ‘Lady Maria Clutterbuck’ with a brief introduction that was, commentators aver, the work of Charles Dickens himself.

In this book, Susan Rossi-Wilcox has investigated the life of Catherine Dickens, the domestic arrangements of the Dickens family, the composition of this menu-book and how the various changes in succeeding editions reflect both Catherine’s own development and the state of play in Victorian cookery, entertainment and food supply.

At the same time, it contains a transcript of the menu-book itself and the appendix of recipes. It would not be sensible to claim the little book changed very much about Victorian cookery, but it serves as a potent marker of what was going on at the time, for example the modes of service, the sorts of dishes cooked, the domestic organisation necessary to maintain a reasonably well-off household."

I should add that this book can be yours for $50.00