Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[PatH]

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Bleak House                           
by Charles Dickens

                     

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

Mr. Guppy's Desolation  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT III IV

DATE of PUBLICATION    June 1852 July 1852

CHAPTERS 11-13 14-16

DISCUSSION DATES Mar.1-5  Mar.6-10

The Family Portraits at Bayham Badger's (click to enlarge)

                Some Topics to Consider

In this section Dickens sets up a lot of puzzles and throws out a lot of hints, without giving any answers, but we can have a lot of fun speculating.  If you've read ahead, please don't give away anything for those of us who haven't.  You can just chuckle with your superior knowledge. Chapter XI 1.  Why are we introduced to a character who has just died, yet seems to be of importance   to  Mr. Tulkinghorn?      Do you have any ideas about his possible role in the story? 2.  Have you ever attended an inquest?   Of course, you will have read about many of them.       Was Mrs. Piper’s testimony relevant?   And why was Jo’s testimony unacceptable? 3. What does Jo’s testimony reveal about the life of a homeless orphan? 4. What does Mr. Snagsby’s interview with Jo reveal about him. 5  What further prejudices, either Dickensian or English,  do you find in this section?  (Hint: ‘Caffre’ apparently is a corruption of Kaffir.) 6.  What is your first impression of Lady Dedlock?    7. Having met Mlle. Hortense, what do you think of her?  What do you expect from         someone like her? Chapter XII 8.  What did you think of Dickens’ dissertation on the fashionable ‘dandyism’ of the day? Does any of it remind you of attitudes today?   9. What is Mr. Tulkinghorn’s status at Chesney Wold?  What does it say about his  relationship with the present Lord? 10. What changes in the relationship of Mr. Tulkinghorn and Lady Dedlock on the occasion of this visit?  What do you think it portends for the future?  Chapter XIII 11.  What are we learning about Richard Carstone’s character?  12.  What do you think of the boisterous Mr. Boythorn?  Do you like him? Dislike him?  Why? 13.  Esther appears at a disadvantage here, in coping with Mr. Guppy.  Is this typical for a young lady of her times, or is it the result of her personal history?   How  does it compare with the way a modern young woman would have handled the situation? 14.  Share your impression of Mr. and Mrs. Badger. Have you ever known any couple like this?  Could you even have imagined a couple like this?   15.  Can you compare Mr. Jarndyce’s attitude toward his wards with Sir Leicester Dedlock’s attitude toward his dependents?

   

Related Links:
  Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                 

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,  JoanK  

[rosemarykaye]

Yes - that is why I bought it instead of borrowing it from the library.  As it is a boxed set I would have been paying something like £2 per 2 weeks, plus a 50p reservation fee, and it only cost £5.99 from Amazon - also I'd probably have ended up paying a fine when I forgot to take it back on time.  I usually do all I can to support the library, but in this instance I decided it was easier just to buy it.  I also think it's something I will watch more than once.

[JoanP]

Please don't watch too much, Rosemary...you'll have the mysteries solved before reading them in Dickens' own words!

I'm wondering how long it will be before we begin to check off some of the  UNSOLVED MYSTERIES on our growing list..

Jonathan asked a question yesterday that stays in the front of my mind - who is Esther?  We know she's Miss Barbary's niece...illegitimate, probably.  We know she's one of John Jarndyce's wards...but we don't know how that came to be.  She is living in Bleak House as a companion to Ada Clare, a cousin of Jarndyce and related somehow to Sir Leicester Dedlock.  She is also the housekeeper, who presides at tea.  
But who is she?  We can only speculate.

Barbara sees Esther "as a peeping Tom to her own life." That's a good description, Barb.  I think that's how Dickens is using her too.  Did you know that Esther is the only female narrator Dickens ever used?      Esther narrates that she has given up on the idea that her guardian, John Jarndyce is her father.  Have you?

There's another narrator in Bleak House - the omnicient narrator - who has described Lady Dedlock as "childless."  Does that rule her out as Esther's mother?  Or do we not believe the omnicient narrator?  Is this an omnicient narrator?

[Babi]

  PatH, I am beginning to spot some characters that seem to me to be possible
candidates for murder. It's too soon to pick a favorite, tho'. We'll have to watch
for our choice the nastiest, most deserving candidate.

   Why would we suppose that Mr. Guppy was 'pretending' to be a tourist, LAURA? His explanation seemed entirely reasonable to me. I imagine that is how a good many tourists came to arrive at the doorstep.  Then, his seeing the portrait of Lady Dedlock and seeming to
recognize it is entirely happenstance.  But important to the story, as Barb notes below.

 

This story is like weaving a basket with each reed a character that is related
to the whole and to each other.

 
 I think that is so important, BARB. Nothing in this story can be dismissed as
irrelevant. The comparison to weaving a basket is very apt.

[rosemarykaye]

Joan - don't worry, I'm only going to watch as far as I've read.  And I'll keep quiet if they give anything away 

[JoanP]

OK, I'll stop worrying about you, then.

I'm suspicious of Guppy's motives too, Babi.  Laura implies that he was only pretending to be a tourist to get inside of the Dedlock home.  That makes him suspect in my mind.  He has to have had another reason.  Then there's the sudden marriage proposal.  Did you believe that he fell in love with Esther that one time he saw her at the Chancery?  I could understand if Esther looked like Ada Clare - but she doesn't.  I could understand if Guppy was taken with Ada.  But based on that one meeting, we're to believe that Guppy is so in love with Esther that he proposes marriage.

I can see why she would weep at this proposal.  PatH notes that Esther never had the opportunity to consider her own feelings.  Is this all there is to love?  She has no feelings for this young man who wishes to marry her.  

"Perhaps Mr Guppy reminded her that there is love that has no logic. It just IS." Jude.

But doesn't there have to be more? Maybe she weeps because somebody loves her - for herself.  Maybe these are tears of joy.  I don't know -I  sense Esther's bewilderment here.  She doesn't feel anything.  Will this turn out to be a love story, as well as a mystery story?

Again, I'm suspicious of Guppy - I think he's come upon some information about Esther that makes her a person of interest...but what it is, I don't know.  How do you see him?  Are you sympathetic to the lovesick young man - or?

[Laura]

 
   Why would we suppose that Mr. Guppy was 'pretending' to be a tourist, LAURA? His explanation seemed entirely reasonable to me. I imagine that is how a good many tourists came to arrive at the doorstep.  Then, his seeing the portrait of Lady Dedlock and seeming to
recognize it is entirely happenstance.  But important to the story, as Barb notes below.

The idea that Mr. Guppy just happens to come to the Dedlock's country house as a tourist, in the pouring rain, just doesn't seem believable to me.  It is perfectly plausible, but seems too coincidental, given the story so far.  Now here’s another question --- what does Dickens want us to believe?  Coincidence or not?

[Laura]

I'm suspicious of Guppy's motives too, Babi.  Did you believe that he fell in love with Esther that one time he saw her at the Chancery?  I could understand if Esther looked like Ada Clare - but she doesn't.  I could understand if Guppy was taken with Ada.  But based on that one meeting, we're to believe that Guppy is so in love with Esther that he proposes marriage.

I wonder if Guppy is trying to strike before others do.  Esther is a ward of the generous Mr. Jarndyce now and may bring a substantial dowry to a marriage.  Marrying "into the Jarndyce family" would be a good financial move, I would think.

[BarbStAubrey]

OK Guppy hmmm - did he fall for Esther on sight - hmmm that to me is two questions - did he fall - that is assuming he has the capacity to fall - for Esther on sight - and that assumes that the appearance of Esther is a sight worthy of an fall.

OK yes, I repeat       OK - this is my impression without backup material from the book quoting who Guppy is or rather, the soul and feelings of Guppy - he is a Jr. something or other in this Law firm where he does the bidding of the more senior lawyers. He prides himself in being knowledgeable and efficient and even thorough as he guided the three Jarndyce clients to the Jellyby house and he is about the business of law when traveling all the way to Chesney Wold.

The way he proposes is as if he is developing a legal document - he shows no feelings - did not court Esther - acts like he is buying a desirable piece of furniture or barouche that he really wants and he wants guarantees that I get the feeling he would insist upon including in a marriage contract.

The man displays no feelings - romantic or otherwise - he only wants to secure a lack of embarrassment for himself if he is denied his request and further he wants the good opinion or at least a good working relationship if he fails to cement the deal.

He reminds me of someone who is as many books entitled say Up From...Slavery, Ashes, the Ground, the Grave, the Underground...He may be a Jr. lawyer but I get the impression his education and knowledge in lifeskills is very very limited. With a mother who is self-sufficient in her own house says they are not of the poor peasant class however, the middle class is a fairly new phenomenon and so his driving, striving, desire to succeed reminds me of the masculine version of Esther who wants to be liked and succeed by being the same source of help and assistance to others as Guppy. The difference she may not see abandoned intimate relationships for herself as a Richard type would bring but she knows she wants to feel more than admired like a new household fixture.

I also think to Guppy an Ada is too far out of his reach - a distant star if not a distant galaxy - in fact so far out of his reach he does not even take notice - he only notices what he has a chance at pocketing plus, I think he sees in Esther her desire to please others that he recognizes since he has embarked on this characteristic for his own success. I also think he likes the idea Esther appears to be able to take care of herself - he knows nothing about the duties she has taken on at Bleak House but, her very countenance that he would have observed in London as she got in and out of the carriage would have told him how capable she was rather than a dainty lady whose delicacy invokes solicitous care.

Esther blushed when she asked Mr. Jarndyce about Boythorn - leads me to think Esther likes an older man who is kind and cheerful that would make her feel secure and nurtured in addition to a need to fill the hole left by not having a father so that an older man in some ways can offer that kind of security.

[PatH]

Guppy's motives: he definitely was attracted on first seeing her.  He paid her an awkward and unnecessary compliment when she got into the coach to go to Mrs. Jellyby's.  But there's definitely something else.  He hints several times during his proposal that, although he has no knowledge now, he could find out things in her interest.

Did anyone notice that to get up the courage to propose he drank off 4 glasses of wine in a few minutes?  It's a wonder he could get up off his knees.

[rosemarykaye]

I agree that Guppy seems to be a bit of an opportunist, but at the same time, it must have been very hard to make your way in London in those days with no financial backing.  He needs a wife, he probably also needs money.  You do get the impression, however, that he must know more about Esther than she knows herself.

[Jonathan]

Right on. When his offer of love is rejected, Guppy offers to serve her interests. He seems to be aware of Esther's circumstances. He's a very industrious law clerk gathering facts in his curious travels. The intense scrutiny that Esther gets reflects the turning wheels in his head. An offer made without prejudice. Explain the fine points of that for us, Rosemary.

Guppy is not old enough to be her father. Hence, of no interest to her.

Murder in the offing. We've had four deaths so far. All of natural causes?

[JudeS]

Sorry to those who suspect Guppy's motives.Begging your pardon, I strongly disagree.

He really is a lovesick puppy and true romantic even though he serves the law.He is young and has fallen head over heels.
Dickens convinced me that the young man is sincere in his love for Esther.  He tells her of his salary, his possible future etc.
Dickens has to put in a few likeable people along with the "bounders".

One of the mysteries is, who is Esther's father?
Here is a possibility I thought of. Remember, just a faint glimmer. Hope I am wrong.
I am suggesting Mr. Skimpole who has a dozen children that he doesn't know who they are or where they are.

The more I ponder on Skimpole the more I dislike him.

If he is not Esthers father he may just represent the "Bad Father". Not only are there bad Mothers but also Fathers who don't give a hoot for their offspring.

[BarbStAubrey]

Well chapter 10 is so far my least favorite - not sure why - somehow it was not going anywhere only that Mr. Tulkinghorn, like a blood hound is sniffing the trail of a short lived lack of composure by Lady Dedlock when she saw the handwriting on a legal document.

I was not prepared for the wretched condition of Nemo - Guster, for all her benighted trials in life comes across as a sour human being who has become all her many privations. - the Snagsby's are a mess - the description of Mr. Snagsby made me think of Quilp in the current PBS Old Curiosity Shop.

We are given a character study of these characters with an overhanging creeping sensation that is foreboding with a strangle hold on us that will not be a quick snap of the neck. Up till chapter 10 it read all of a piece but with this chapter there is a change suggesting sinister things to come.

Little things, like Tulkinghorn walking past Krook's shop after he was escorted there by Snagsby and then he secretly doubles back when he is sure Snagsby has departed. And again, Tulkinghorn when he leaves his out-of-date but well kept, organized and well locked office home not informing his help where he is going nor when he will return. And then the drug worn and ravaged Nemo living in abject squallier seems even more sordid since, somehow he is known by Lady Dedlock, one of the most glamorously preserved woman in the story. This chapter puts you in mind of scurrying rats in a desiccant, trunk and limping toy choked attic.

[PatH]

Wow, Barb, what a good, vivid, summing-up.

Tulkinghorn is very secretive.  Babi quoted: “Everything that can have a lock has one; no key is visible."  He deliberately loses Snagsby before going up to see Nemo, so he won't be seen or followed.  And is he going there to satisfy his own curiosity, or could he have been commissioned by Lady Dedlock?

And what a squalid setup indeed.  One shabby room, and no possessions but a few clothes and a pile of pawn tickets.

[JoanP]

"I am suggesting Mr. Skimpole who has a dozen children that he doesn't know who they are or where they are"
Wow, Jude, that's a thought!  If you let your imagination go even further - how about they are all three Skimpole's children - John Jarndyce is collecting them as a gesture to Skimpole - philanthropist that he is.  I'm sure Ada and Richard would not be pleased to learn they are related!
No seriously, Skimpole is as good a candidate as any.  I'm wondering why Esther has given up on the idea that John Jarndyce is her father.

Dickens convinced you that young Guppy is sincere in his love for Esther.  I think this is a good example of Dickens' art...and his ability as mystery writer.  Look how he has us picking out clues that convince us of one thing...or the other.  Pat's mention of those 4 glasses of wine - indicate a very nervous young man, throwing down the wine to calm himself.  This doesn't sound like a conniving fortune hunter, does it?  One who needs to be clear-headed if he is to win her hand.

And yet  we are left with the impression that he knows more about Esther than Esther knows about herself, as Rosemary points out.  Just an impression, though - nothing factual.  Dickens is being very careful here.  On the one hand he tells us that this law clerk would have access to  such information, as closely he works with the Jarndyce case.  On the other, he makes it ever so clear that the only one who really knows the family secrets  - Esther's background would be a family secret - is Tulkinghorn - and he is tighter than a nut.  Doesn't even let clerks handle the locked papers.  How would Mr. Guppy know anything about Esther?  Unless someone else besides Tulkinghorn knows. 

Barbara, I think that the implications are strong in Chapter X that Tulkinghorn knows more about Nemo's handwriting and its
importance to Lady Dedlock.  The very fact that he doesn't want Mr. Snagsby to know he's going to see him indicates that this is visit that must be kept secret.  Don't you wonder what he might have said to Nemo - if Nemo were able to speak?

 "Murder in the offing. We've had four deaths so far. All of natural causes?"   Help with this, Jonathan. Jog the memory - Neno appears to be dead - but was it murder?  And who were the other three?  Do you think Tom Jarndyce was murdered?  Who else?  

[Babi]

 My own personal conclusion re. Guppy and Esther is that while he may have admired
her in passing, he originally gave her no serious thought.  BUT, when the portrait of
Lady Dedlock got him to thinking of certain possibilities, Esther suddenly became a
treasure to be adored.  And having a touch of the romantic in him, he saw himself as
truly in love.
 Don't forget, GUPPY was not alone on that visit; he had a friend with him and they were looking
for some amusement.  And Londoners really are quite accustomed to going about in the
rain.  As much as it rains there, they'd be severely limited if they didn't.

 BARB, I noticed that as well. In fact,it seems to me as if these lawyers are so
very conscious of legal pitfalls, that they can hardly make a statement without first
assuring that no hearer can challenge it legally.
    I have to take exception to the comparison of Mr. Snagsby to Quilp, BARB. I watched
that movie the other night, and IMO Snagsby is not at all like the monstrous Quilp.

 JUDE, I heartily detest Skimpole, but I simply cannot imagine him as Esther's father.
No, I feel confidant that Dickens would insist on a nobler character as his beloved
Esther's father.
 

[Jonathan]

What a fog Dickens has got us into. What endless incitement to speculation. And our imginations are up to it. Marvellous how Dickens establishes rapport with his readers. But how will he ever resolve all the questions in our minds. Oh,well, one can guess at his intentions. Perhaps Boythorn murders Skimpole. Drone meets busy bee. At the very least, Skimpole is sure to lose all his teeth.

Guppy, surely, is head over heels in love with Esther. Coincidence had him seeing her in Lady D's portrait. Is this author allowed the use of coincidence?

Tom Jarndyce's death makes it five. I had forgotten about him. First there was Esther's godmother's demise. Then the doll was put  obsequiously away. After that Jenny's baby dies. And now Nemo has come to a sorry end. Perhaps no murder here, perhaps only an author's style.

[BarbStAubrey]

Babi the Quilp connection - only in looks not in character - you are so right on Quilp is a monster but it was him as a shop keeper that I was seeing the look and thought of Snagsby.

Jonathan I am not sure that this Nemo is dead - when I read it again, it sounds more like he is in a haze and stupor from Opium. But we do have the Ghost, the wife of Charles I that can be added to the list.

I do not see Mr. Tulkinghorn having advanced suspicion of a worked out theory only, that something was ajar when Lady Dedlock reacted so that, as a man who puts everything in its place and will use desk items to represents conflicting ideas till he settles on his next step I think this reaction by Lady Dedlock for him needed to be categorized and understood and so, he goes to nose it out -

So far from the story I am not getting a hint of murder in the offing and so I wonder at this point if the mystery murder y'all are talking about is the murder of a spirit - that actually was murdered a couple of hundred years ago. So far all I am seeing is many characters introduced - they all need an incident for us to see their characteristics - at this point I wonder why so many characters - it does follow what we realized earlier about so many scenes showing discombobulation so that many characters could  be following that theme.

I am wondering if any of these secondary characters are shadow characters with similar characteristics to the main characters. Or what seems obvious they all allow another incident so that we can see another side or make a point of a characteristic of the main characters.

What I mean is take that whole bit with Mrs. Pardiggle - why - she was not a main character and she disappears with the next few chapters - she may be resurrected later in the story but we do not know and we seem content that she and the bricklayer were a side cul-de-sac. - so why - Well it does highlight for us the caring nature of Esther and we do have a glimpse at how she values Ada. Ada says little so we can only assume the feelings are reciprocated because they both together do what they can for the dead baby.

We can also compare the children of Mrs. Pardiggle to those of Mrs. Jellyby and see two ways of women affecting life beyond their homes. But again, Why - what has that to do with any of the main characters. Maybe it highlights how isolated, offering little philanthropy is Lady Dedlock but that is a stretch - maybe they offer a foil to the characteristics of Esther who was not admiring the lifestyle of either of these two women.

OK Guster I can see as an example of  'there for the grace of God' she could have been Esther except Esther had a Godmother and attended a boarding school - both girls are at a loss for parents.

How many of these secondary characters are simply allowing one character to interface with another and like messengers, they bring one to another as Snagsby brings Turkinghorn to Nemo or is it that these secondary characters move the story along.

Since Guppy has been mentioned in several chapters and has talked directly to Esther and John Jarndyce he must be a sorta main character but no sure how he fits the inner circle that is developing.

We have Richard related somehow to Lady Dedlock, who is legally represented by Turkinghorn, who is in the same profession as Guppy, who not only professed his love for Esther but also brings to our attention that he somehow knows Lady Dedlock as well as, Guppy's office represents Jarndyce and Jarndyce which includes Ada and Richard who are both living with Esther in the home of John Jarndyce - is John Jarndyce also part of the law case Jarndyce and Jarndyce? - and then the mysterious Nemo must be a main character since Lady Dedlock knows his handwriting and Turkinghorn thinks that his observing that is important -

In Bleak House we have had Skimpole and visiting Boythorn, of course Guppy [he sure gets around] in addition there was Mrs. Pardiggle however, I do not see her as a main character. For a bit with Esther's inquiring after Boythorn I thoght he was going to be added to the main circle but it appears he too has faded into the pages of the story.

So far I think Dickens has circled up the wagons as to who is not a pawn - we seem to have at least two houses and two queens but so far no one has stood out as the king - there is much mystery but that to me is how Dickens gets us to turn the page and ask what is next. The greatest mystery seems to be surrounding Nemo and Turkinghorn because of his buttoned up ways - he is as circumvent and evasive as Guppy is crassly effusive.

[pedln]

I’m with the rest of you about Guppy.  He knows something more about Esther, or he’s speculating about her future.  And he would like to be in it.  Is he scheming?

Guppy is not old enough to be her father. Hence, of no interest to her.

Interesting point, Jonathan.  And romance is not for her right now, as she has more important things to discern.  But she is interested in romance, and love, particularly that of Ada and Richard.

For a bit with Esther's inquiring after Boythorn I thoght he was going to be added to the main circle but it appears he too has faded into the pages of the story.

Barb, I’m not so sure about that. I was wondering if there were a bit of mystery about Mr. Boythorn.  Who was the lady love that he lost before he ever had her?  And he is also in battle with Sir Dedlock, over a gate, a path.  We’ll probably see more of him, but I hope only in small doses.  He does come on strong.

Jude, I do hope you’re wrong about Skimpole possibly being Esther’s father.  A detestible man, even though the people at Bleak House seem to find him attractive.

Rosemary, I have the PBS DVD of Bleak House – 15 episodes, with Gillian Anderson.  Am tempted to start watching.

I'm findinfg the reply section very weird here  It keeps bouncing around and I can't see what I'm typing.  I did not have this trouble with latin this morning.

[JoanP]

Pedln, it sounds to me like you've inadvertantly clicked the "compatability" box - way up at the top of your screen on the right - a little box that looks like a torn piece of paper.  Try clicking it to see if that helps.  You can't do it when you're in the middle of a post, though.

Didn't you lend me the DVD set years ago?  And I kept it for nearly two years before giving it back to you?  (sorry about that)  If the same, I don't think I watched it because none of what I'm reading seems at all familiar.  But that really doesn't mean anything...  Did you ever watch it before now?

During the  prediscussion, kidsal brought us this great interactive map of the area we're talking about.  I'm amazed that Tulkinghorn's sumptuously furnished home is so near to Krooks, aren't you?  Walking distance.  If you click on this map, look up at Oxford Street - and before it comes to Holburn you'll see Bloomsbury.  Look down from there and you'll see Lincoln Inn Fields , where Tulkinghorn lives and then a block or two to the right of the Fields, you'll see Chancery Lane where Krooks is located. Am I reading the map right, Rosemary?  Click the yellow buttons on the map and you'll see text describing the area.  Interactive Map of London

In Chapter X we read of Tulkinghorn's home - in this same installment there are some other references we might consider- before moving on to the 4th Instalment tomorrow -
These are all found in Chapter VIII

1.   A Jarndyce in an evil hour made a great fortune and will.

2.   Everybody in this will EXCEPT ONE MAN knows what's in the will.

3.  John Jarndyce tells Esther of a house in London - a  property of "ours"

4. The house in London is what Bleak House used to be - dilapidated.

Aren't those fascinating comments?  They read like a riddle, don't they?  Especially the second one...

I can't wait for the next instalment!

[PatH]

I don't want to leave this section without commenting further on Guster.  Dickens says of her:

"...who, although she was farmed or contracted for, during her growing time, by an amiable benefactor of his species resident at Tooting, and cannot have failed to have been developed under the most favourable circumstances, 'has fits'--which the parish can't account for."

This seems a little obscure, but a footnote says there was an orphanage farm at Tooting.  Parishes paid a small fee for boarding orphans.  It was notorious for maltreatment, overcrowding, and lack of food and sanitation.  Eventually the deaths of 150 children in a cholera outbreak led to criminal charges against the "amiable benefactor".

So Guster has seizures, and we learn a few pages later that her hair doesn't grow.  She has been damaged by mistreatment and malnutrition.

[PatH]

I can't wait for the next instalment!

Dickens knew a thing or two about cliffhangers.  It's a good thing we don't have to wait a whole month to find out more about Nemo.

[Babi]

There seems to be quite a bit of that juxtaposition in the London streets,JOANP. I
get the impression that the homes/offices of the well-to-do are on the quiet squares
or major streets. But down every alley there may be old, dark, dreary apartments or
even hovels.
  I was suspicious about Guster's upbringing as soon as I saw the phrase "farmed or
contracted for", PAT. It didn't occur to me there was a real 'Tooting'. Love learning
that sort of background.
  I am enjoying this so much.  I'm getting so much more from book than when I first read
it years ago.  In fact, it has inspired me to pick up and start re-reading "Tale of Two Cities".
I'm enjoying that even more, also.
  So, today we start the next installment!  And this first chapter continues the incident of the
death of the mysterious Nemo, who has died of an overdose of opium.
 Opium is freely available during this period.  One can purchase it from any physician.    And like many another who succumbs to narcotics, we discover that the deceased believed he could control his intake.  He started out keeping a careful record of how much and how often he used the opium until, of course, he reached the point where he no longer had the judgment to care.
  Now comes the inquest!  The beadle, I learned,  in those days, was a messenger of the court.  He apparently made all arrangements,  summoned the official parties, notified the appropriate people, and generally oversaw the 'due process’.  Nowadays,  a beadle is a church official, an usher, and charged with
keeping order during services.  So apparently Dickens was correct in picturing this as an outdated office.
But tradition was everything!

[BarbStAubrey]

Well I'll be snookered - Jonathan you were right! Last thing in the world I expected was the death of Nemo who we barely knew but the story kept him like a dark horse ready to come into the light - never in this world did I expect he was going to enter more fully into the story as a corpse.

What really gets me, like many of you I thought I knew something about this story having seen it a few years back on TV - not only have I forgotten most of it - certainly I did not pick up the nuances that reading this story offers nor the wonderful writer that is Dickens - I also researched and learned the original series was 16 hours and the US only purchased 10 hours and from that many a PBS station truncated it further to 8 hours - that is half the original - so no wonder - like seeing the newest PBS version of Old Curiosity Shop in one night as compared to the older one that was shown over several nights.

Well this is teaching me that to see a book on TV or in the movie is no replacement for reading it - one more reason to not have cable - I get all I want from the basic channels plus we have 4 channels of PBS one being in Spanish. I've been down to watching TV 3 days a week except for NewWeek which I switch on every evening for my news and now that this Book has shown me the glories I can find in the written and ultimately spoken word more of my time will be with a book in my hand.

Back to Bleak House - I smiled at how no one wanted the others to see their curiosity about what was in that suitcase and they all wanted someone else to do the bidding to verifying he was dead and find evidence to who he was. Reminds me of a bunch of kids - you do it - no, you do it - and then they wait and stare and it starts again - then they say let's get Mikey or some small kid to do it - till finally someone just guts up and does it.

Seems to me even when I was a kid before WWII medicine for kids included Laudanum - I guess when there are no meds to cure a problem at least it can be masked with either whiskey or drugs.  

Yes, Babi - poor Guster - I say it again, she has become as the Dickens labeled "her many privations." I could not help compare her childhood to Esther's - Esther may not have had the best of worlds but far different than Guster. Interesting how easily we forget - we had a friend who served in WWII in the underwater demolition group that after the war became the Navy Seals and yet, he had small epileptic fits that grew worse as he aged. In civilian life he had to hide his affliction or he would not have been accepted in his job - his problem was a source of embarrassment kept hidden  by him and his family till around the late 1980s. That was only 25 to 30 years ago.

Well back to finish the chapter - I guess one of the mysteries will be who is Nemo, where did he come from, where is his family, why was he in this single room living on Opium?

[JoanP]

I'm enjoying it too, Babi - reading Dickens' words - which surely are missed in the filmed versions, Barbara.   I mean, how do you portray Tulkinghorn in the room of the deceased, taking it all in, looking for every bit of information he can see in the dim light of the candle - and allowing the conclusion that there was nothing of importance to be found?   We know, because Dickens lets us know - that he didn't miss that portmanteau.  It was right there by his own feet!  The unknown dead man had only this small travel bag with him.  He must have left wherever he was before in a hurry.   I'll even bet Tulkinghorn was able to discern whether or not it was a bag of quality.There was nothing else of note in the room - except that bag.  

Did Dickens' readers conclude that the pawn tickets and the newspaper scraps were irrelevant to the story?  Did you?  Do you think Tulkinghorn dismissed them as unimportant?  The narrator describes the news scraps as referring to "Coroners' Inquests."  Wasn't this odd?  Really odd.  Why would the deceased collect such articles?

So he died of an opium overdose.  Was he murdered, did he intend to kill himself?  It probably has nothing to do with it - but I remembered Skimpole, who as a physician, had trouble filling perscriptions accurately.  Any number of things could have happened to poor Nemo.  I don't believe he killed himself...but then again, why would anyone want to kill him?

[JudeS]

At the begginning of Capt.12 Dickens does with sunshine what he did with fog in former chapters. He uses his "poet self" for a few paragraphs and it is beautiful:
"The clear, cold sunshine glances into the brittle woods and approvingly beholds the sharp wind scattering the leaves and drying the moss.......It looks in at the windows and touches he ancesral portraits with bars and patches of brightness never contemplated by the painters. Athwart the picture of my Lady, over the great chimney piece, it throws a broad
bend-sinister of light that strikes down crookedly into the hearth  and seems to rend it."

The above paragraph leads us into the inner world of Lady Leicester.  She is obviously an important figure in the story.
Dickens in the next few paragraphs shows how very depressed she is especially by capitalizing the words "Grand Despair" and "Boredom". he wants to make sure we know what is wrong with her but he does'nt really say why she is in such a state.
"Weariness of soul lies before her as it lies  behind her".
Dickens could be a forerunner of Freud with his sensitivity to mood and the inner workings of people ; rich and poor alike.

The maturity Dickens has acheived in his life when writing Bleak House makes it a contender for one of the worlds great books .  Here he reaches the same depths that Dostoyevsky reached in his 19th century works.

[Jonathan]

Great ideas from all of you. Many helpful insights which I find a great help in beginning to appreciate Dickens' art.

Isn't Guster a good example of someone showing all the symptoms of  PTSD?

[BarbStAubrey]

I thought for sure either Krook or Turkinghorn would make a grab for the pawn tickets - Your ahead of Me Jude just giving us a few attractions that grab the romantic in us and our love of well placed words - Now I will have to get into the rest of 11 and read 12.

[PatH]

The scene in Nemo's room has a lot to comment on.  First, the physical drama.  Tulkinghorn arrives, sees Nemo lying inert on the bed, and his candle goes out, leaving him in darkness.  (If we were the original readers, leaving us in darkness for a whole month.)  A light is brought.  Amid the sordid scene we see the staring eyes of Nemo, mirrored by the staring eyes of the shutters.  The shutter eyes close.  Nemo's do not.  He is dead.

There are mysteries in what follows.  Krook tells Tulkinghorn to call for Miss Flite to get a doctor.  While Tulkinghorn is on the landing, "Krook follows him with his eyes, and, while he is calling, finds opportunity to steal to the old portmanteau, and steal back again."  Did he take something?

Miss Flite comes back with a doctor, who says Nemo is dead.  At this point, a "dark young man , on the other side of the bed" says he knows Nemo, has sold him opium.  Who is he, and how did he get here so opportunely?  He is a surgeon, but he didn't come with the doctor, who doesn't know him.

Tulkinghorn makes sure the search of Nemo's belongings is made in an orderly way.  I'm sure he didn't miss the significance of the tickets and clippings; he never misses a trick.  The tickets could be just evidence of Nemo's desperation, selling everything he has, but checking what was pawned could give evidence of Nemo's identity.  The clippings will surely turn out to be significant in some way.

[Laura]

While Tulkinghorn is on the landing, "Krook follows him with his eyes, and, while he is calling, finds opportunity to steal to the old portmanteau, and steal back again."  Did he take something?

Yes!  I wondered the same thing, Pat!  I think he did take something out of the suitcase.

The young surgeon comments about Nemo, “I recollect once thinking there was something in is manner, uncouth as it was, that denoted a fall in life.”

That makes sense to me.  A person who had lived all his life as Nemo did during his last few months would be unlikely to be able to write well.

Then Lady Dedlock comments to Mr. Tulkinghorn, “I can’t imagine what association I had, with a hand like that; but I surely had some.”  She is referring to the handwriting of Nemo.  How did they know each other?  It must have been before his fall in life.

I am not sure which left me feeling sadder --- Nemo’s state of living and his death or the testimony and actions of Jo about Nemo. “He wos wery good to me, he wos!” 

On a much lighter note, this comment about Sir Leicester was laugh-out-loud funny:  “Sir Leicester is generally in a complacent state, and rarely bored.  When he has nothing else to do, he can always contemplate his own greatness.”

Now to read Chapter 13…

[JoanP]

I missed that, Pat...Krook, the acquisitive Krook, of course he had time to take something - but what?  We know he didn't take the pawn tickets though.  

The dark young doctor who appeared out of nowhere.  I assumed that he came in with the older doctor summoned by Miss Flite. But now, after reading it again, I see the older doctor asking the younger if he's in the "maydickle" professoin - which he wouldn't have done that if he knew the man, would he?  
The young man has been selling opium to Nemo.  I wonder why he didn't get called to the hearing about that. Or did he?  I forget.
What I didn't forget - at the end of chapter XIII that same young doctor shows up for dinner at Bleak House!  Doesn't that give us something to think about?

 Laura, it fits, doesn't it?  At least Dickens is making  it seem to fit.  This wild looking, unkempt man has undergone  a fall in life.  Now fast forward to the burial - the body of the dead man - "in brighter days the now-extinguished fire within him ever burned for one woman who held him in her heart, where is she, while these ashes are above the ground..."  

What a way to segue into the Dedlock household in Chesney Wold...and the ever-bored Lady Dedlock.

[rosemarykaye]

Sorry - I have been keeping up with the reading (by reading a chapter a day before 6am!) but life has been ultra-hectic here over the past few weeks - Anna is involved in so many concerts and competitions just now, plus her Highers/AS Levels, and various other things have been on the go; I think I find all this rushing around far more stressful than I would have done 10 years ago, but I'm not sure if that is age or just the fact that I've got used to my peaceful little life!

Anyway:

Jonathan:  "without prejudice" is something that lawyers put at the top of letters if they don't want them to be referred to in court.  For example, if you are being sued, and you want to try to stop the case going to court (which is of course very expensive), you might offer a sum of money to the other side to make them settle.  BUT is they refuse that offer, and insist on taking you to court, you do not want them to bring your letter out in court, because it could be taken as a sign that you think you were in the wrong.  Insurance companies' lawyers do it all the time - "we will offer you £10,000 to settle now - without prejudice".  This puts the other person on the back foot, as if they take the money, they will always think that they might have done better in court, but if they don't take it, and they go into court, they might not only get nothing, but end up having to pay both sides' horrendous legal costs (traditionally, the loser in court pays a large part of everyone's costs).  Also, if you proceed to court and win, but are awarded less than the offer that was made earlier, you can be stung for the other side's costs from the date on which the first offer was made - because you should have taken it and saved everyone's time and money.  Insurance companies are geniuses at working the system like this.

Re the map - I had a look at it.  I think in Dickens' time things were obviously very different - abject squalor existed cheek by jowl with affluence.  Even in my childhood, large parts of London were slums - but nowadays just about anywhere within easy reach of the centre has been yuppified and is horribly expensive.  The kind of people who would have lived in the slums in even the 1960s/70s now live in the outer suburbs, which in my childhood were v respectable, but have now become quite dreadful in some cases.  Many of them were moved out by councils eager to sell off valuable sites.  My own cousin used to live in a nice council flat in Camberwell, a part of London that my mother would almost have died rather than live in - the council persuaded them to accept a flat outside London, so that the block (it was a solid 1950s building, not a high rise monstrosity) could be redeveloped and sold off.  Camberwell, like Brixton, Dalston, Hackney, Islington, etc has become very des res and expensive owing simply to its proximity to the centre.

So yes, Tulkinghorn could have lived in a very smart house just walking distance from a slum - and of course in those days slums were a lot worse than they are now, although maybe not as threatening, I don't know.

And there are still parts of inner London that are very poor indeed.  In the 1980s I worked in the Elephant & Castle - only 10 miles from the suburb in which I grew up - and I had honestly never seen such poverty in this country.  In the morning there were long queues of people waiting for their benefits, some of them just stood there in their carpet slippers.  I had clients who came to ask me about buying their council flats - the 'right to buy' was a big thing back them - and when I worked out what it would cost them to repay very small loans (if you had lived in the property for a long time, you bought it at a massive discount - people who did this then sold the flats on at massive profits just 3 years later, it was an appalling policy and decimated London's public housing stock) - they were horrified, as they could hardly afford to pay their utility bills.  Some people made a lot of quick profit at that time, but others simply could not afford to do so; they could hardly afford to live.

Rosemary

[Babi]

  Look at the inquest.  The coroner’s inquest had a very familiar sound.  On the frontier in America, inquests were generally held in saloons, where there was ample room and seating.
The bar was generally closed for the proceedings, tho'.   At 'Nemo's' inquest, the officials enjoyed
a beer and business was very good indeed with the place full of curious neighbors.
     I loved this glimpse of the neighborhood life, which has changed not at all!
  “Mrs. Perkins, who has not been for some weeks on speaking terms with Mrs. Piper, in consequence of an unpleasantness originating in young Perkins having ‘fetched’ young Pipe “a crack’, renews her friendly intercourse on this auspicious occasion.”
  Dickens makes it so easy to identify with the various characters and personalities. It makes
the events so real and present for us.
   And what about Jo and his mantra for all occasions.  "I don't know nothin!'"  Which, sadly, is pretty much the case.

[rosemarykaye]

Re beadles - they are not only in church:

http://thebeadlesoflondon.com/TheModernBeadle.aspx

http://www.londonlives.org/static/Policing.jsp#toc7

[Jonathan]

Now why can't Dickens write as clearly as that? Thanks, Rosemary, for walking us through that legal maze. Applying it in Guppy's case makes his proposal even more interesting. What's he trying to foresee? That Esther may someday sue him for breach of promise?

About the 'dark young doctor.' AsJoan puts it: the man who also came to dinner. And Pat asks: Who is he, and how did he get here so opportunely (at Nemo's deathbed)?

One more secondary character? I liked Barbara's comments about  all these people the author brings into his tale. To provide another incident. Another point of view. To serve as a foil to a main character. It's all amazingly clever. But it's soon obvious that Nemo is someone of significance. Jo's only friend. Lady Dedlock's concern. Tulkinghorn's great curiousity. Even Sir Leceister wonders why Lady D is so upset.

[JoanP]

OH Jonathan...those characters!  And now we have some new ones that are sure to play a part. I'm counting Nemo of course.  Since he shows up at Bleak House at the end of this instalment, we probably must include the dark doctor...does dark indicate an ominous presence?  Blond, light, virtuous, beautiful?  And little Jo...though he was dismissed by the Coroner because he is poor, uneducated, unimportant to no one.  I'm betting that Tulkinghorn will not forget this boy who seems to be the only one Nemo talked to.  The boy says as much.  He used to talk to him all the time, he says - and "he wos wery good to him, he wos."  What does this tell us about Mr. Nemo?

Once I visited one of Dickens' London homes - the one on Doughty St. where he lived when first married with first child.  There was a huge painting there - "Dickens' Dream" teeming with   charcters from many of his works.   - I think how difficult it would be for Dickens to keep all of these characters straight as he wrote - and don't forget he was writing with those 10 children of his own underfoot!

Here's the painting that stays with me as I read Bleak House -

"Dickens' Dream ~ painted by RW Buss - the artist who illustrated Pickwick Papers

[JoanP]

Can't forget words of thanks to you, Rosemary - keeping up with your busy schedule  - and your daughters' -  and helping us out with an understanding of these references to British streets and courts.
My son lives in central London until next week - in what was once public housing.  Now for quite a large sum, folks are buying apartments in the housing.  My son is renting this apartment from a young man who bought one  of these apartments to rent out.  What interests me is that some of the apartments are still public housing, others are privately owned and rented at premium prices because of their location.  They distinguish whch apartment is public, which private - by painting the doors a different color.  The public are always green.
This weekend he'll be moving west - to Portabello Rd.  His new apartment looks out on the famous weekend market.  He's really thrilled about the move.

Loved the links describing the "beadle."  I've come across the term in other reading but never fully understood their function.  From one of the links Rosemary put up, I read -

"In Westminster, beadles were appointed by the Court of Burgesses and held similar responsibilities. They were expected to patrol the streets, drive out vagrants and beggars, and supervise the watch."

Surely then, this beadle has seen the boy, Jo - who seems to have lived off the street - with no fixed address.  Did he look the other way?  There must have been quite a few vagrants and beggars at this time.

So Mr. Tulkinghorn goes right from London out to Chesney Wold - to bring word of the death of the man whose handwriting Lady Dedlock reacted so violently?  Really?  Is this the only reason he's made the trip? Does the death of the unnamed man seem to warrant the attention of each of them?  Unless...what?

[JoanK]

I'm so glad to have a working computer again: I've spent the last hour catching up with all your comments. So a few reactions:

Jonathan: " With a mother who is self-sufficient in her own house says they [Gupp y and family]are not of the poor peasant class however, the middle class is a fairly new phenomenon and so his driving, striving, desire to succeed reminds me of the masculine version of Esther who wants to be liked and succeed by being the same source of help and assistance to others as Guppy."

I think that's a very interesting observation. Esther's class position interests me, too. She is neither upper or lower, and is treated, and treats herself as somewhere between an equal and a servant to Jarndice and the young people. She is likeable (loveable, even) but her male equivelant, Guppy, is somehow despicable and laughable. Is this a reflection of the attitudes toward the emerging middle class in Dickens' day?

[JoanK]

Barb: I like your point that the beginnings and ends of chapters send us somewhere new. I found the switch between Chesney Wold and Bleak house confusing, too, and wonder what Dickens is doing with presenting us with these two houses.Especially since Bleak house isn't, and Chesney Wold is! (Bleak,that is). What other comparisons do we see?