Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[Babi]

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Bleak House                           
by Charles Dickens

                     

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

Sir Leicester Dedlock  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT XIV XV

DATE of PUBLICATION    Apr. 1853 May 1853

CHAPTERS 43-46  47-49

DISCUSSION DATES April 21--Apr.25  April 26-Apr.30

Tom-All-Alone's (click to enlarge)

                Some Topics to Consider

Chapter  XLIII  Esther's Narrative 1. How did Esther take the revelation of her mother's identity?  How do you think you would feel in this situation? 2. What is Richard's relationship now with Mr. Jarndyce? What has caused this change in Richard's attitude? 3. What do you think of Jarndyce's opinion of Skimpole's influence on Richard? Do you agree with Esther or Jarndyce? 4.  What does Skimpole's home tell you about him? 5.  Why is Esther so upset by the visit from Sir Leicester? 6. What reaction and words of Jarndyce at the end of this chapter cause Esther to love and value him even more?  Chapter XLIV  The Letter and the Answer 1.  What is the letter, and what is the answer? 2.  Why did Esther burn the old, dried bouquet?  What does it say to you about her?   Chapter XLV  In Trust 1. Richard's lawyer, Mr. Vholes. What would you 'trust' him to do? 2. What outcome would you hope for, or expect, from Esther's mission to Richard? 3. Why do you suppose Esther thought it would be 'so much better' to present herself to Richard unannounced? 4. What portent of the future does Dickens give us in this meeting? 5. What face from the past reappears in Deal? How does Esther's reaction strike you? Chapter XLVI  Stop Him!     1.  We see more of Allan Woodcourt's character here. How would you describe him now? 2.  Where has Jo been? 3.  What did he beg Jenny and Allen to tell Esther? 4.  Do we have any further clues as to who unlocked that door in the barn loft and got Jo away?

   

Related Links:
  Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                 

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,  JoanK  

Drat! I clicked on the 'compatibility' button and lost my post!

  Okay, to repeat (hopefully) I don't think I could say anyone 'deserves' to die, JONATHAN,
but there are a couple of characters I wouldn't be surprised to hear were murdered.  Lawyer
Tulkinghorn is certainly one of them.  The viciously greedy Smallweed is another.

 Dickens is giving us some interesting background in this next chapter, though I'm not sure why.
He refers to Polygon, in Somers Town, full of Spanish refugees.  A check of Spanish
history during this period shows a great deal of violent civic conflict.  Having driven Napoleon
out,  the people apparently turned to fighting one another over various issues.  Perhaps it is
simply more of his political commentary, tho' I'm not sure what point he is making.

  Speaking of puzzles, I'm going to back up a bit.  Does anyone have any idea what the author
is getting out when he refers to a 'wheel going round' with Ixion on it?  (pg. 150, my edition)Ixion, I learned, was a king of Thessaly who committed parricide and attempted to rape Hera and was punished by Zeus by being bound to a perpetually revolving wheel in Hades.  How does
this connect to the story?  Am I being really dense, here?  I wonder if I can find that particular
page in the on-line copy? I need to re-read that.




  

[PatH]

Vholes has said "A good deal is doing, sir.  We have put our shoulders to the wheel, Mr. Carstone, and the wheel is going round."

Richard snaps back at him "Yes, with Ixion on it."

I think he is complaining that the wheel is going to go around forever without getting anywhere.

[PatH]

My book has a footnote describing the Polygon as a ring of houses built in the late 18th century.  Here's more:

Polygon

I couldn't get those pictures with buttons to do anything.

It was on the edge of things when built, but not when Skimpole lived there.  Dickens himself lived there in the 1820s.

[pedln]

Did you wonder how he found that information about Lady Dedlock's background?

Yes, JoanP, I do wonder and spent part of yesterday afternoon searching backwards to see if I could find some missed clues.  We all know he noticed Lady D's reaction when he first brought some papers that Nemo had copied to the Dedlock home.  That's what started him investigating. But who spilled the beans -- Jo didn't know about any backgrounds, nor Snagsby, Guppy?  The unlikable Tulkinghorn has a way of injecting himself into someone and make them  squirm or bend to his will.  The paper Mr. George turned over?  I didn't think that was personal info about Hawdon.  Did Tulkinghorn sneak anything from Nemo's portmanteau?

So many questions, so few answers.  Where is Jo?

Tulkinghorn does not have feelings.  And what he did in front of all the Dedlock cousins and guests was plain outright cruelty.

[JoanP]

Pedln, the paper that Mr. George had to turn over to Tulkinghorn was only a sample of Captain Hawdon's handwriting.  For Tulkinghorn to have obtained the story of Lady Dedlock's past, he must have had his hands on those letters, don't you think?  When would he have seen them - before or after the "spontaneous combustion" scene?

Pat suggests it might be interesting to speculate on Tulkinghorn's feelings, if he has any. Pedln thinks he  doesn't appear to have any feelings.  But everyone has feelings, don't they? ...Something motivates Tulkinghorn.   And Jonathan wonders if he's been disappointed in love.  I wonder if Dickens will reveal this.  He tells so much about everyone else's background, I can't believe he'd omit Tulkinghorn's.  This fierce protection of Sir Dedlock and the Dedlock name - where does this come from?  At first I thought that he once had feelings for Lady Dedlock - now I'm doubting that.

I'm finding Tulk to be the most interesting character in the book. How about you?  I hope he will be around at the end - although there are a number of characters who would be happy to see him go - and all his secrets with him.  Dickens has managed to sympathize with nearly all of his characters - with the exception of Tulkinghorn and those Skimpoles...the whole lot of them!  Perhaps they will prove to be expendable.

 Wait - I forgot to mention Hortense.  She's baaaack.  Loved the scene, the dialog between Tulkinghorn and Hortense.  How important will she be?

[Laura]

I appreciate everyone’s different opinions on the scenes between Mr. Tulkinghorn and Lady Dedlock.  I was of the opinion that he was being a jerk and holding the information he has over her, ready to blackmail her with it.  Your opinions gave me some different ways of looking at what was going on, which is why I like discussing this book with you all so much.

As usual, as it seems there is something confusing in each section, I couldn’t exactly follow the political “stuff.”  However, I just read the Sparks Notes summary and was good to go!   LOL!  I am convinced that Dickens does not expect his reader to completely understand everything he wrote.  After all, who could know all the Bible verses and mythology he alluded to in the book!

I’m heading outside to read the next installment, enjoying the sunshine before a lot of rain moves up the East Coast.

[Jonathan]

'He tells so much about everyone else's background, I can't believe he'd omit Tulkinghorn's...the most interesting character in the book.'

Interesting comments, JoanP, about Tulkinghorn. And we are all wondering how he got to know so much about Lady Dedlock, and why the story he tells in the drawing room at Chesney Wold. Along the way, I don't remember the page, we were told that he had misgivings about Sir Leicester marrying Lady D. Did he know something then about her. But that's the thing about Mr T. He is too secretive. Even the author seems friustrated at his inability to get at the man's character. Dickens draws on his prejudices about the legal profession to supply the answers, it seems. I'm amazed at the things he says that put Mr T into a bad light. He does give Tulkinghorn feelings, but they are all negative. I believe he is disappointed that he can't get Lady D to accept his professional services in finding a solution to a looming scandal. Of course we've been told several times that women only mean trouble. If anything should happen to him we know where to look. The way things are going it's easy to spot the prime suspect...that crazy French woman. Just can't understand the English way of things.

Could Richard get angry enough to say, give me a gun? To stop the wheel.

[Jonathan]

Of course, Lady D finds herself in a moral quandary, doesn't she? It's not a legal problem for her. She is in a perilous situation.

[marcie]

Babi, I'm sorry you lost the post you were composing. I don't know if it would have still been there if you clicked the Back arrow on your browser. Those are very good questions.
I'm in agreement with Pat, that the reference to the "wheel going round" with Ixion on it is a reference to the ongoing case of Jarndyce and Jarndyce which goes round and round down through the years and never is advanced.

Pat, thanks for the link to Polygon. It says on that page that:
"Two of the most famous residents of the Polygon were William Godwin and his wife Mary Wollstonecraft, who died giving birth to Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein. Another former Polygoner was Charles Dickens, who lived at No 17 in the 1820s shortly after his father, John Dickens, was released from debtors prison. Dickens later made the Polygon a home for his 'Bleak House' character Harold Skimpole, and he in turn may well have been modelled on Godwin."

Pedln and JoanP, Regarding  how Tulkinghorn found out about the relationship between Lady Dedlock (before she was married) and Captain Hawdon, I'm putting together the following:

Guppy told Lady D that Krook had a packet of letters which he was going to try to get.
Tulkinghorn has been trying to get a sample of Captain Hawdon's handwriting (which we know Lady D recognized when Tulkinghorn brought a legal document copied by "Nemo"). Why does he want to confirm that Captain Hawdon was, in fact, "Nemo"?
I'm making the leap that Tulkinghorn must have gotten his hands on the packet of letters and that the letters implicate Hawdon and Lady D in an affair.

[JudeS]

We have now read 67% of the book according to my Kindle.

We can put most of the main characters in one of three categories. I did so (You may or may not agree with me). This helps me see the book in a certain light and takes away some of the tension as to what will happen and to whom.
Here are my lists:

Good Guys: Esther,Ada, John  Jarndyce,Detective Bucket, Caddy and Allen Woodcourt

Bad Guys:Tolkinghorn, Vholes, Hortense,Skimpole and Smallweed.

Not in a clear category:LadyDedlock,Richard, Guppy (and Weevil),Mrs. Rouncewell, George Rouncewell.

Still guessing:Lord Dedlock,Mr &Mrs. Snagsby,Mathew Bagnet.

If this is like other mysteries, then one of the bad guys will be doing something (a murder probably) to one of the good or uncategorized folk.  Now I (we) have to wait patiently to see who does what to whom. (Is my grammar correct?)

Did I calm anyone but myself with this summary?

[marcie]

Laura, re Tulkinghorn's hold over people. Like you, I do think that he's not merely doing his duty to protect his employer, Sir L. He goes out of his way, and involves a lot of people, to dig out the truth. Then, he doesn't just keep it to himself. He threatens Lady D with exposure in front of the group of people at Sir L's house. Pedln, I too would have said he didn't have any feelings but JoanP, you are making me think more, when you say everyone has some feelings. Jonathan surmises that "Dickens draws on his prejudices about the legal profession to supply the answers, it seems." And Jonathan also points out that Tulkinghorn has a terrible opinion of women or marriage. He's always lurking in the background and never part of the "society" at Sir L's house. It's as if he's a fixture that Sir L. acknowledges as  useful but doesn't have any affection for. They don't always remember that he is in the room. Lady D has never gotten along with Tulkinghorn. Does Tulkinghorn resent her? Could it be that he even resents Sir L, who is not as smart as Tulkinghorn but has a higher place in society? Whatever his reasons, he does seem cold blooded and heartless toward those from whom he wants to learn secrets.

It also seems that Tulkinghorn has a big role to play in the book. He's the one behind digging out the biggest secret in the novel. Does that make him the evil antagonist?

[JoanP]

Babi - you're quoting from Chapter XXXIX- the one called Attorney and Client...Here's a link to that chapter so you can read it again -

 http://www.online-literature.com/dickens/bleakhouse/40/

Pat quoted the part that relates to the novel

Vholes has said "A good deal is doing, sir.  We have put our shoulders to the wheel, Mr. Carstone, and the wheel is going round."

Richard snaps back at him "Yes, with Ixion on it."

I think he is complaining that the wheel is going to go around forever without getting anywhere.  And I think he's right!  Richard is blinded by the prospect of earning a lot of money - except he needs the money immediately!

[JoanP]

Jude -  yes, thank you - calming to see them grouped this way.  I think I'd put Guppy and Mr. Snagsby in the good guy column, simply because I don't think them mean to harm anyone - although somehow they have become implicated. .  I guess they belong in a gray area - can you make a third category?

Tulkinghorn - is a bad, bad guy.  Marcie sees him with "a big role to play in the book." "He's the one behind digging out the biggest secret in the novel." 
A good question, Marcie -

"Does that make him the evil antagonist?"

All the signs and omens are indicating that he is going to be knocked off - not any of the good guys.  Does the evil protagonist get killed when the story is only 67% over?

.  If it is to be Tulkinghorn, I'm back to the list to see if there are any likely suspects.  Hortense - a little too obvious.   Skimpole?  Nah, after reading the next installment, I'm convinced that he really is a child.    Sir Leicester?  Hmmm

Things are beginning to  pick up - I think we need a reason to call Bucket into the picture...like a murder.  I'll be disappointed if its Tulkinghorn - but he seems the obvious - everyone hates him, everyone has a motive.   I just found a copy of the next installment on my doorstep!

[marcie]

Jude, I missed your post. What a great idea to try to sort out the characters that way.

Your categories make me wonder who the characters are that have practiced the most "good"?  Here are my nominations:
John Jarndyce: He is benefactor to many people.
Allen Woodcourt: He has dedicated himself to a life of service to the health of others. He goes out of his way to treat the whole patient, as exemplified by his care of Miss Flite.
Esther: Her goal in life is to do good and be of service to others. Everyone who gives an opinion of her seems to care for her, or at least recognize her goodness.

[BarbStAubrey]

Well it took me all week - what a slog but I am finally caught up - I must say though I was feeling the depths of astonished emptiness as if falling into a black hole that never ends when I read the end of chapter XXX - the betrayal - her own sister - never to have had the chance to hold alive your own child much less have the opportunity to decide the sacrifice it would take to raise and love your own child -

Despair is too mild - Bleak is too tame -

I was annoyed reading the next chapter about Caddy's wedding - it is as if nothing the others do in the story matter - as she says "I must travel the dark road alone, and it will lead me where it will." She is so isolated in her grief and bitter betrayal that she can not even let on to Esther when she tells her what happened - she simply tells Esther, as the elegant and noble lady she is, that she did not know that her child was living. How could she tell Esther of her sister's, [Esther's guardian] secret betrayal.

Her sister is dead so she cannot even confront her - Lady Deadlock reminds me of a brave and noble women on the floor of Caesar's Colosseum being devoured by the lions.

Tulkinghorn like Vholes are like Paper Moons and now that Tulkinghorn has uncovered for us another part of Lady Deadlock's story he can leave the stage after he uses his courtroom skill to stay Lady Deadlock and protect his client Leicester Deadlock -

We still only have a 'public' view, a con man's view nosed out of Nemo, captain in the army, Captain James Hawdon and his love for Lady Deadlock who may have been a lady of the evening. If the captain was such a cad I cannot imagine him being dependent on copying legal papers for his money or dependent on drugs. And if it were a night in passing for them I cannot imagine Lady Deadlock paying Jo to see where he lay after death.

I see this entire story with all its characters whirling like bits and pieces, roofs, lumber, cows and vehicles in a tornado around the wounded and desolate Lady Deadlock so that even the birth of her child was an event that was ripped from her control. Her only act in life may have been loving a captain for a time and becoming pregnant and then all those years later opening her wounded heart to her daughter - her life as a Deadlock seems to be about looking exquisite and acting like a beautiful mannequin. We finally get a view of her pain described in this chapter that has Tulkinghorn spilling the story and talking her into a life of supper for the lions.

Still, we do not know how Leicester Deadlock came into the picture - we can only imagine that the Deadlocks were a married couple when Lady Deadlock gave birth and the sister took matters into her own hands and then with a dark mind made sure the child was brought up to know she was a blight on her family.

Guppy bless his heart is as weak as water but at least he is real, reacting in shear panic to the change in Esther after her illness and honoring his word about no longer providing evidence to either Esther or Lady Deadlock.

As to Krook's death - the chapter refers to the build up and spewing of creosote on their sleeves and its yellow dripping on the outside of the house. Wood creosote goes from clear to yellow and tar creosote from coal starts as an amber color and goes to black. Creosote burns upwards to just over 500 degrees Fahrenheit. Enclosed cremations are usually between 900 degrees and 1400 degrees however outdoor cremations are around 500 degrees - it does not seem plausible that even if he was coated with creosote which can spark into a flame very very easily [chimney fires burn down 100s of homes every year] that he could have burned without setting the room on fire especially, with all the bits of paper and rags about. But I think Dickens included all the references to creosote to give a possible explanation to those who did not buy the concept of spontaneous combustion.

The desolation that Ada expresses to Esther during her illness only reminded me of the words of desolation Lady Deadlock must have held in her heart and thoughts.

Another thought when catching up reading the18 chapters, I thought that either a few of our US Senators of late either had read and were quoting Skimpole's tirade about Jo and his 'kind' when Jo needed care or they need to read Bleak House.

[Babi]

 I wonder if Richards sees himself as Ixion, miserably punished by the gods?
I could see why he might feel that way.
 Richard does have some insight into himself.  ‘Call it madness, and I tell you I can’t help it now, and can’t be sane. But it is no such thing; it is the one object I have to pursue. It is a pity I ever was prevailed upon to turn out of my road for any other. It would be wisdom to abandon it now, after all the time, anxiety, and pains I have bestowed upon it! ‘
  In spite of all this, Esther still remember the Richard he once was. “Dear Richard! He was ever the same to me. Down to — ah, poor poor fellow! — to the end, he never received me but with something of his old merry boyish manner." Richard, perhaps more than Lady Dedlock,
is the truly tragic character in this story.

I fully agree with most of your sorting, JUDE. I do think Mrs. Rouncewell belongs
in with the 'good guys'. And George Rouncewell seems an honorable man, well-loved
by his friends. That says 'good guy' to me.
 (Thank you for taking the trouble to find that page for me, JOANP.  You are the most helpful
lady!)

[PatH]

Lady Dedlock's affair must have taken place before her marriage to Sir Leicester.  Tulkinghorn's anonymous story says "she had in early life been engaged to marry a young rake".  So she was unmarried, and probably quite young.  Whether or not Hawdon was serious about it, I'm sure she was; she was engaged to him.  She is of the same social class as Jarndyce and Boythorn--they moved in the same circles--and she would not take such things lightly.  When she married Sir Leicester, she hid her past from him, but that was the only dishonorable thing she did.  She was free of encumbrances (or thought she was).  He loved her.  We aren't told whether she loves him, but she has been a good wife to him, making him happy and being the center of his life.

Why did her sister hide the child's existence from her?  I'm guessing to preserve the family from scandal.  Her buttoned up morality would see that as the greatest evil of all, never mind the damage done to three lives.

What was Hawdon like, and why did she fall in love with him?  His ex army friends think he was an unprincipled schemer, but they are still loyal to him.  Maybe he was one of those men with so much personal charm you can't help liking them.

[BarbStAubrey]

Pat you must have read further than I have - but the idea Hawdon was a rake is from Tulkinghorn and he has his socially acceptable opinion of people - at the time if they were not married Hawdon would be called a rake by society and she would be a loose women if not a prostitute. But then maybe there is more here and I just need to read where you found this about Hawdon's army buddies.

If this happened before her marriage to Leicester Deadlock all the more of a betrayal by her sister - she may have decided to raise her daughter even if it meant leaving England or living in poverty. Did not sound like the sister lived in comfortable circumstances - not as poor as the bricklayers but it did not sound as comfortable as Boythorn so that Lady Deadlock may have been able to manage that lifestyle - but regardless she should have had a choice - it was her child - cannot get past that her child was taken without her even knowing. I should find the quote again but as I remember the sister stopped all contact with Lady Deadlock.

[PatH]

The stuff about the army buddies comes from way back, mostly from the time when George is having trouble with Smallweed about his debts.  Don't remember the details, but there is talk of how Hawdon took them all in and cheated them, but George is still unwilling to give up a sample of Hawdon's handwriting for fear it will harm H. (even though he thinks H. is dead) and expresses loyalty to H., who was his commanding officer.

[BarbStAubrey]

aha -thanks - need to go back and find that...

[PatH]

Barb, I like your description of events and characters swirling around one as if in a tornado.  I feel that way too, in fact I've probably read most of the chapters 3 or 4 times through going back to get things straight.

[pedln]

JUde, thanks for the character rankings -- a good idea.  I think I'd probably move Matthew Bagnet up to the good guys.

PatH, I've been going back trying to find out more about Hawdon.  The scheming reference comes from Old Smallweed--

"Besides, he had taken us in. He owed us immense sums all round. I would sooner have strangled him than had no return. If I sit here thinking of him," snarls the old man, holding up his impotent ten fingers, "I want to strangle him now."       

  'course my feelings here are that Smallweed deserves every bad move that comes to him.

    "I don't need to be told,"  [said George, speaking with Smallweed]   "that he carried on heavily and went to ruin. I have been at his right hand many a day when he was charging upon ruin full-gallop. I was with him when he was sick and well, rich and poor. .    .   . he had been young, hopeful, and handsome in the days gone by”

    Mr. Guppy casts up his eyes at the portrait of Lady Dedlock over the mantelshelf

  -- when waiting with Weevle in Nemo’s old room.  No doubt Tulkinghorn saw that same picture on the night Nemo died.  Tulkinghorn already knows that it was Lady Dedlock that sought out Jo to show her where Nemo was buried.  And if Guppy could find out that Esther Summerson was actually Esther Hawdon, no doubt Tulkinghorn could too.

[JoanK]

Our May book club online is "Women in Greek Drama": reading three Greek plays featuring strong women. Find out why these women have been famous in literature for two thousand years. Join us for the pre-discussion here:

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=3156.0

[Jonathan]

I can't remember reading a novel in which past, present and future were so cunningly interwoven as in this one. And I really enjoy reading the great commentary on the unfolding of the touching human drama, or dramas, in Bleak House.

What a great sacrifice the sister made to allow Honoria to get on with her promising life. What a great burden for Esther's little heart to be constantly reminded it would have been better had she never been born. The haughty Lady Dedlock living a lie for so many years.

'Did I calm anyone but myself with this summary?' Jude, 809. Yes, your soothing question did smooth my ruffled feathers. I'm in violent disagreement about several characters.

'If it is to be Tulkinghorn....we need to call Bucket into the picture.'  It won't be him, JoanP. Mr Tulkinghorn already enjoys Mr Bucket's protection, having been called in after the threats on Mr T's life by Mr Gridley. Buckley would naturally keep all Mr T's contacts under surveillance.

[Jonathan]

On the other hand, a woman scorned...hell hath no fury like her. Not likely to allow a police detective to get in her way.

[PatH]

Pedln, thanks for tracking down those references--no easy job.

The picture of Lady D.  would not have been in the room when it was Nemo's.  It was part of Weevle/Jobling's Galaxy Gallery of British Beauty, which he put up when he moved in.

[BarbStAubrey]

Didn't Tulkinghorn come in the room when Guppy and Weaver were clearing out just as Guppy took that particular picture off the wall - no words in the book that said Tulkinghorn saw the picture but you have to wonder.

OH Jonathan the haughty Lady Deadlock - sorry but to hold first to her station that god knows how she got there with the background that Dickens is alluding and then to her pain - she is like an open wound - she needs to be perfect - it is her only shield - and in that Tulkinghorn is correct that she would not hurt Leicester Deadlock - OH OH OH I grieve at your judgment of her and thinking you probably mis-understand others like her today...

Dickens is sure allowing this French Character to go over the top expressing anger and wanting her form of justice - is she his emblem character of the French Revolution or the traditional English view of the French that allows the English to be seen in a superior light.

Having read some of Thakeray's Christmas stories I was shocked at how openly he puts down the Irish and other nationalities where as his friend Dickens does not usually run in that direction but I wonder if Hortense is an exception as she is called the foreign women.

[marcie]

I'm trying to find the place in the book where we learn that Lady Dedlock thought that Captain Hawdon was lost at sea. That seems like the excuse she had for not telling Sir Leicester about her affair with Hawdon before their marriage. Since she thought that her lover and child were dead, why bring it up.

I think that the reason Lady L's sister didn't tell her about the birth and decided to raise the child in secret could have been to protect the family name from disgrace as much as to protect her sister. I don't know if we'll find out whether her sister cared about Lady L at all. She certainly had a very strict code of morality. She gave up her own relationship with Boythorn to raise Esther.

[Laura]

Still a third of the book to go!  Who knows what else is in store for us!

I agree with your categorization of characters, Jude.  Marcie, I would agree that Mr. Tulkinghorn is the evil antagonist.  Barbara, I liked your logical analysis of spontaneous combustion.

What I liked best about this installment was that the web of characters is being tied together in new ways.  Mr. Woodcourt appears again, as does Jo, and one of the bricklayers’ wives.  It’s nice to revisit some of the same characters repeatedly after being introduced to new ones for so much of the book.

I was surprised to read the Mr. Jarmdyce didn’t think Mr. Skimpole meant anything, let alone any harm, by introducing Richard to Mr. Vholes.   Mr. Skimpole is playing an elaborate game in which he has convinced himself and others that he is incapable of being an adult.  I think it is a case of people enabling his behavior.  I am beginning to find the whole situation with Skimpole to be ridiculous.  If you combine Richard, with his money issues, Skimpole, with his money issues, and Vholes, who is looking to make money, the result cannot be good. 

[Babi]

 It was Smallweed who claimed Hawdon and cheated them all, PAT. George didn't feel that
way. I got the impression Smallweed is furious because Hawdon died and left his debt to
Smallweed unpaid.
  oH, beautiful. I see PEDLN has found and quoted the relevant passage. Thanks, PEDLN!

 JONATHAN, you are too kind. Lady Dedlock's sister did not sacrifice herself so that
lady could 'get on' with her life.  She was mortified about her sister's "shame" and
acted to save the family reputation. She cut her sister off completely, and IMO thought
she deserved to suffer.

 I had some similar thoughts about Dickens description of Hortense, BARB. I think it
does reflect a common British view of the French temperament.

 Dickens gives us a lovely description of the town of Deal, the harbor and the ships.
     It does not appear to be relevant to the story.  I suppose he simply likes the place and
    wanted to share it.  Now he uses this as the site to re-introduce Allan Woodcourt to the
story.  And as Laura notes,  Jo emerges again.  He has returned to ‘Tom All-Alone’.  And who has found him but Jenny and Alan Woodcourt.  So many threads, so intricately interwoven.

   We already knew someone must have had a hand in getting Jo out of the Jarndyce barn loft.
But who is still a mystery.  The thing is,  Jo was taken to a hospital, and I can’t see Skimpole
caring in the least whether Jo got care, so long as he was gone. So what do we think now?

[Laura]

   We already knew someone must have had a hand in getting Jo out of the Jarndyce barn loft.
But who is still a mystery.  The thing is,  Jo was taken to a hospital, and I can’t see Skimpole
caring in the least whether Jo got care, so long as he was gone. So what do we think now?

Based on Jo talking at the end of Chapter 46, I have a complete guess --- Rev. Chadband.

The quote I referred to is:
"You move on," he ses.  "Don't let me ever see you nowheres within forty miles of London, or you'll repent it."

Seeing the word repent made me think of the only religious figure --- Rev. Chadband.  I haven't gone back to see what he was doing at that time in the book to know if my guess is even plausible!

[Jonathan]

'She was mortified about her sister's "shame" and
acted to save the family reputation.'

Thanks, Babi. It's more complicated than I thought. Her sister's 'sin' kept her from marrying herself, (Boythorn) but allowed her sister to marry Sir Leicester. The detail in the book is just too dense. It's easy for the characters to be misunderstood. Skimpole least of all. Seeing him, along with Richard and Mr Vholes as a machinating trio is just too funny. Should we add Mr Smallweed to the group. One theme of the book is certainly learning to live with poverty. We now learn why Skimpole is always looking for a home away from home.

Was this book really planned and worked out in advance, or is it a marvellous example of spontaneous creation? Or is it just the fog?

[BarbStAubrey]

Her sister's 'sin' kept her from marrying herself, (Boythorn) but allowed her sister to marry Sir Leicester.

We still do not know if Lady Deadlock was pregnant when she married and had the baby in secret or if this all took place before she married Leicester Deadlock - to have the baby with public knowledge would have been a huge, horrible no-no back in those days - granted but, then why would Miss Barbary secretly from the mother, her own sister, that evidently for Miss Barbary sibling love is not as strong as her moral righteousness, take matters into her own hands without even confirming with her sister - she robs her sister of choice, her ability to give love by either raising the child or giving the child up for a better life and she robs her sister of her baby no different than these weirdos today who take babies from mothers -

How could she marry anyone and keep her secret betrayal - sure she could pass the baby off as someone she adopted but then she could not heap on the child the pounding guilt of being a shame to her mother and father. How does someone become so vindictive - they may be characters in a story but they are too close to what we know is real and the question of evil is never satisfied for most of us. Where and how does evil come about? The church says a devil - others say upbringing or want - still others say childhood trauma  - but somehow, after birth not just choices that end up negatively affecting others but choices that reach down into the being of someone or even taking their life - where does that come from? And sicker yet, is how as onlookers we cannot cope so we try to justify evil - even calling it just.

I am looking at the character Jo and his open antagonist Skimpole. Jo reminds me of Ignorance and Want from the Christmas Carol all rolled into one - but more - do not know if that was Dickens plan however, the characters in Bleak House show us how easily the plight of the poor, with few opportunities to see a life other than through the eyes of want and ignorance, are not so much caste aside as Skimpole recommends but are superfluous to what seems more important to the life as described for each character.  

The characters think of their own wants and needs without a true understanding of how they ignore if not negatively affect those who are on the lowest rung of the economic ladder and who can only view the world through their limited understanding. I may be a romantic but I really think there are more folks who do not realize the damage they create, both the poor and the rest of us because we must all move along - we all pay a fiddler. Folks like the Deadlocks even if they do help have no clue and as Lady Deadlock gave Jo a coin she had no awareness of how others would view someone like Jo having that much money.

Is that part of it - we have no conception of what it is like to live with want and ignorance - we can guess but are we always judging others based on our own values and moral lifestyle - hmmm this book has me by the tail - sorry folks but maybe some of you are asking similar questions.

[marcie]

Barbara, it seems that once Lady Dedlock married Sir Leicester, they became inseparable in their residence and travels. I don't see her being pregnant and hiding it from Sir L. It seems that she must have had the baby (and thought it died) before she was married. It would make sense that her sister would be among the only people to witness the birth since her affair and the birth of her baby must not be made public.

Sir Leicester doesn't know of the affair or the birth of the child (dead or alive).

[BarbStAubrey]

I do see that Sir Leicester does not know but I still do not know when Esther was born - was it before or after her marriage - given her travels she could easily have used an excuse to go to France for the last 6 weeks and some women do not show that much till the last 2 months.

Somehow I cannot go back and re-read so much of this book to find it but wasn't Captain Hawdon thought to have been lost at sea - we still do not know how or when Sir Leicester meets and marries Honoria Barbary, later Lady Deadlock. I could be wrong as the story I hope unfolds but I just cannot imagine Lady Deadlock having an affair after her marriage. The question is she in the early stages of pregnancy or is the birth and death of the father in her past when she meets Sir Leicester.

Regardless, even with all the scandal and shame we could imagine heaped on her head the secret keeping and raising of Esther was beyond the pale. They both should have been part of the decision - Miss Barbary had to have known she did wrong or else she would not have cut off her sister Honoria Deadlock never seeing or communicating with her again nor would she have so shamed that little girl if she was raising her out of protection for Honoria.

[JoanP]

When Lady Dedlock conceived and then "lost"  that child is still very much a mystery.  I agree, Barbara, I don't believe she had an affair after her marriage.
Somehow I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Sir Leicester knows the "secret", Marcie - or even to learn that Sir Leicester knew the secret at the time he married Lady Dedlock.  But that's my own suspicion - it occurred to me after reading the strange way he's acting in Chapter XLIII -
 
He turns up unexpected at Bleak House - just happened to be on the way from Lincolnshire, to apologize for not inviting them to Chesney Wold when they were visiting Boythorne.  He goes on to say that he regretted Mr. Skimpole had been turned away from his home when he came to examine the family pictures.  ((Am I forgetting something?  Did we read that Skimpole had made this visit?))  Why this sudden interest in John Jarndyce and his wards?  Did he know John Jarndyce?  Or is he only interested in him now that he has learned that Jarndyce knew Lady D in the past?
The east winds are blowing stronger...
I don't think Mr. Tulkinghorn gave him any of this information.  He wants to keep him in the dark.   Do you suppose the loyal Mrs. Rouncewell keeps him informed?

Jude, I'm interested to hear if your opinion of Mr. Skimpole has changed since this new installment - now that we have visited his home, met his family?  Is he really just a child, unaccountable for his actions  - as John Jarndyce persisits in seeing him?  What do you think blinds Jarndyce to his faults?  Esther, and even Ada are beginning to see him as a poor influence on Richard.

[JudeS]

Joan P
I put Skimpole in the "Bad Guys" category in my post on this page.
If we had any doubts whatsoever about Skimpole being what is known in Yiddish as a" Schnorrer".
A person who lives off of others , never giving back and always looking for more people he can "Schnorr" from.
In XLIII we see how horrible Skimpole really is.
Skimpole  compares money to Moorish, "Which I don't understand".
Esther sees through him.  She thinks:"the more I see of him the less agreeable it wasto think of him having anything to do with  anyone for whom I care".
I wonder if she and John will ever discuss this matter, and if they do how will it affect their relationship?
Skimpole has taught his daughters well.  As the guests leave the girls say :"Live your practical
wisdom, and let us live upon you!".
Although all the girls live in the house and the oldest with her husband and two children, Skimpoles own apartment was a palace compared to the rest of the house.

Dickens sure is pouring it on thick about Skimpole.  Will we finally find out what his hold is over John Jardyce?

[Babi]

 Maybe, LAURA, but I don't remember Rev. Chadband being anywhere around when all this
took place. I do remember Jo having problems with the local constable always telling
him to 'move on'. 
  I agree with those of you who believe Lady Dedlock did not have her affair after her
marriage. Wasn't she described as quite young and in love with a dashing young officer?
It happens all the time. But in her time, and her social group. the discovery that she
was pregnant and her lover missing was a catastrophe. Secrecy was all-important.

 Oh, yes, JUDE! A 'schnorrer', is it. Love it. Know hereabouts as a 'moocher'. I really
think John Jarndyce needs to believe Skimpole is a 'child', simply as a relief and
contrast to all the avarice and cycnicism he sees in the world.

 Dickens is again making  his points about society’s notions of charity.  Much speechmaking and proposals both in and out of Parliament.  What is to be done with the poor, who are an unpleasant and disturbing spectacle, to be sure. “In the midst of which dust and noise, there is but one thing perfectly clear, to wit, that Tom only may and can, or shall and will, be reclaimed according to somebody’s theory but nobody’s practice.  And in the hopeful mentime, Tom goes to perdition head foremost in his old determined spirit.”

[JoanP]

"What is to be done with the poor, who are an unpleasant and disturbing spectacle, to be sure."

Good morning, Babi!  Dickens makes an important point here, doesn't he?  I think he'll end the story with consideration for the poor one way or another.  How did the Beatitude go?  "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven."  Hmmm

Just out of curiosity, I went to the list of our Unsolved Mysteries - to see how we are doing.  We're reading the 16th installment (out of 20) and the only thing that's clear - Lady D. is Esther's mother.  Are we 100% certain that Captain Hawdon is her father?

One question that caught my eye -

"What was in the document that Mr. Tulkinghorn was reading, while Sir Leicester was dozing, that made Lady Dedlock faint? "   She recognized the handwriting, so we've assumed it was Captain Hawdon's.  But do we have any idea what was in that document?  That's still  a question - and the man has supposedly died!

[JoanP]

 

Another question --  was Dickens trying to elicit sympathy for Skimple...even a little bit, when he describes his home - this man who has not two pence in his pocket - has a piano, a table covered with spongecake, hothouse nectarines, grapes...a bottle of wine" to offer his guests. 

"This is his birdcage."

  He is described as a caged singing bird.  How did you understand this image?

Will we finally find out what his hold is over John Jardyce?"  Jude   Right now, to me, John Jarndyce and Sir Leicester are the two biggest mysteries.  I think that once Dickens pulls these two from the shadows, we'll have the story we've been waiting for. I still don't understand why Jarndyce is pretending to be blind to Skimpole's faults.  He's got to be pretending, don't you think?  Otherwise he seems to be a very insightful man.   I suspect that Jarndyce sits on a pile of secrets - including the details of Esther's parentage.


I agree with Babi - I don't think the Reverend had anything to do with "kidnapping"  Jo from the barn.  The clue is at the end of this Installment.  It was not Mr. Tulkinghorn, was he behind it?  What hold does he have over this man to get him to do his will?  Or maybe Jo was carried away to the horsepittle to help him, to  protect him from Mr. T?