Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[JoanP]

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Bleak House                            
by Charles Dickens

                   

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

Mr. Guppy's Entertainment  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT VII VIII

DATE of PUBLICATION    Sept. 1852 Oct. 1852

CHAPTERS 20-22 23-25

DISCUSSION DATES Mar.16-20  Mar.21-25

The Smallweed Family (click to enlarge)

               Some Topics to Consider

In this section Dickens sets up a lot of puzzles and throws out a lot of hints, without giving any answers, but we can have a lot of fun speculating.  If you've read ahead, please don't give away anything for those of us who haven't.  You can just chuckle with your superior knowledge. Chapter XX  A New Lodger 1.  What more do we learn about Guppy in this chapter? Why does he call Richard "The Enemy"? What do his relationships with Richard, Smallweed and Jobling say about him? 2. What do the names Guppy, Smallweed, and Jobling tell us about Dickens' attitudes and beliefs. 3. Do you think Jobling moving into Nemo's old room will prove important to the plot? How?  Chapter XXI  The Smallweed Family 4. Have you ever known people like the Smallweeds who were old without ever being children? What do you think of Dickens' portrayal of the old couple? What do you think accounts for Dickens' obvious contempt of the Smallweeds? What is the hint that they might have had money about? 5. Who is Mr. George? What is he paying Smallweed for? What does Smallweed mean by "Two good names would be sufficient for my friend in the City"? Why doesn't George supply them? To whom do you think those names belong? 6. Who is the mysterious Captain Hawdon? What incident in the past do you think Dickens is hinting at? 7. Here we have more characters who can't handle money. How are Richard, Skimpole, Jobling, Mr George and Captain Hawdon different in this respect? How the same? What in Dickens' life makes him so interested in how people (mis)handle money? Do you share that interest? Chapter XXII  Mr. Bucket 8. How does the tone of this chapter differ from that of other chapters? What is Dickens doing here? Why does he start with Allegory? What did you think of Bucket's appearance? 9. What is a "feverhouse" Why does Dickens portray the "crowd" as he does? 10. The two women give opposite opinions: one wishing her baby would die, the other that hers had lived. Why does one say :"but we mean the same thing, if we knew how to say it, us two mothers does in our poor hearts". 11. What have Tulkinghorn and Bucket learned from their experiment with Jo? Why are they so interested? 12. How did Bucket handle Jo and Snagsby? Do you think he's a good detective?

 

Related Links:
 Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                  

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,   JoanK  

[pedln]

Rev. Chadband does rather set one's teeth on edge, doesn't he? I'm afraid my opinion
of Mrs. Snagsby's intelligence and good sense dropped considerably at this point.

Yes, to the first, Babi. I think I’d rather listen to Skimpole than him.  And I’m going to have to review Mrs. Snagsby.  Right now it seems to me that Mr. Snagsby is a hen-pecked husband.

We don't see Mr. Guppy's reaction,[to Mrs. C’s news] do we?  That will be for another day

.

JoanP, Guppy must have been in 7th heaven when he heard her, as obsessed with Esther as he is.  I’m just starting chp. 21, but isn’t it convenient for Guppy that it’s vacation time and he more or less has Kenge and Carboy all to himself.  Richard won’t be paying any attention to him as he’s so caught up in reading J vs. J.

[Jonathan]

'Did his readers wait impatiently for the next installment?'

Some of them fired off letters to the author with all kinds of suggestions. Some no doubt thought this or that was a stretch of the truth, or likelihood. I believe Dickens was trying to show what a small world it really is. Even London.

Now if Mr Tulkinghorn, needing a wife, eventually gets Esther, and Mr Guppy, violently jealous, murders Mr Tulkinghorn....

Three hundred pages into the novel and still no action! It reminds me of the theater patron watching a drama with much clever dialogue and provocative ideas, complaining in a loud voice after the second act: Why doesn't the cast stop talking and get on with the play.

I think you are all being too hard on Mr Chadband. Trying so hard to raise the spiritual level of those around him. Learning lessons, seeing lessons himself in everything  around him. Seeing the noble soul in someone like Jo. Everything he says comes with a biblical echo. A dedicated man in his own way.

[JoanK]

Jonathan: "Now if Mr Tulkinghorn, needing a wife, eventually gets Esther, and Mr Guppy, violently jealous, murders Mr Tulkinghorn....

Three hundred pages into the novel and still no action!"

I laughed and laughed! Good for you -- I'll bet we could have a great time making up endings in the style of various authors. Mmmm. How about a "three Musketeers" version where Guppy, Smallweed, and Jobling go around fighting duels. Guppy could duel with Tulkinghorn over Esther. Richard could challange Guppy, but forget to turn up. Mr. J could be everyones second.

But where is our D'Artagnan?

[JoanK]

Or a Jane Austen version, where Esther, having refused Guppy, becomes convinced of his worth? NAAAAAH.

[PatH]

Chadband is dedicated in his own way, but except for a limited following, he has no feel for the people around them, what will move them, how they are reacting, and he's horribly long-winded.  Guster knows him "...to be endowed with the gift of holding forth for four hours at a stretch...."  He sees the humanity in Jo (which a lot of them don't) but he has no idea how he is tormenting the poor boy.  After about a page of talk, "At this threatening stage of the discourse, Jo, who seems to have been gradually going out of his mind, smears his right arm over his face and gives a terrible yawn."  Chadband suggests that Jo come to see him on a regular basis to be harangued.  "Jo, whose immediate object seems to be to get away on any terms, gives a shuffling nod."

[PatH]

Here I was writing away while you were having more fun being clever.  What about Proust, where the sentences will all be a page long and in the end it will all seem pointless?

[JoanK]

 

[JoanK]

What do we think of our three small lawyers (Guppy, Smallweed and Jobling)? Why are they so small?

[JoanP]

"Proust, where the sentences will all be a page long and in the end it will all seem pointless"...pointless and without a period in sight, Pat?

I think Guppy is becoming a bit more into focus in this new chapter...but weren't you expecting him to use this new information about Miss Esther Summerson in some way?  WHen you think about it, what could he do?  At minimum, I thought we'd see him questionning Mrs. Chadband about Esther.  Instead, we see him dining at the Slam Bang with two  rather down on their luck characters.  Jobling has lost his job...and Smallweed, well I can't figure out what he's doing yet.  Does he work for his father in Mr. Smallweed's questionable, though profitable occupation?

Jude won't agree, but I really don't see him as that love-sick puppy, pining over Esther.  Has he given up following her around?  Stalking her?  She's part of the Jarndyce family in a way - and they're in a class above him.  The fact that Richard is now working in Kenge's law office is also intimidating...he feels that Richard will "depose" him.   But the question at hand, why is he pal-ing around with Smallweed and Jobling?  Is he paying for their dinner too?  I see Mr. Guppy as a climber.  I think he's going to use both of them to gain information to his own advantage.  But I can't figure what that is.  

[marcie]

What do we think of our three small lawyers (Guppy, Smallweed and Jobling)? Why are they so small?

Good question, JoanK. I hadn't noticed their stature. We know that Dickens did not like lawyers. Perhaps that is why they are short!

[JoanP]

I knew that the Smallweed family is small - all of them!  What an odd family!  Grandma and Grandpa, Bart and Judith...you couldn't help but notice them.  Was Guppy short in stature?  I didn't remember that about him - just that there was something going on with his hair all smashed down.  Jobling is another story.  He seemed to grow as each new dish was served at the Slam Bang....but I thought that reference had to do with his feeling better as his hunger was satisfied.  I remember being puzzled at his age too.  How old IS Mr. Jobling?  Both Smallweed and Jobling look UP to our Guppy.  Maybe because he has a job, a steady income? I think he's using their admiration...I think he's using them. 

The only reason I see him spending time with these two - is to use them for some plan he has in mind, not known to us.  He's managed to place one of them in Snagsby's office and another in Krook's Rag and Bottle.  Don't you wonder why?

[Babi]

 Interesting question about the names Guppy, Smallweed and Jobling. I don't exactly
see 'attitude' in the choices, but more of 'identification'.  These are more minor
characters with perhaps 'small' 'job' contributions to make to the story. Guppy...
a small, fairly common, but popular fish. 
 Oh, and definitely yes! Jobling moving into Nemo's old rooms is bound to have a
purpose. Dickens would never have made a point of it otherwise.

 We do seem to have at least three hen-pecked husbands in this plot. I wonder why
that is an issue with Dickens? He has at least as many children as Jellyby, but he
is far from defeated.  And what little I know about his wife does not give the
impression of a domineering, or even particularly capable woman. That would seem to
eliminate her as Mrs. Jellyby, or Mrs. Snagsby who capably runs their business. So,
why all the timid husbands?

 JOANK, I loved that bit about Richard challenging Guppy, but failing to show up! How
perfect.

 You know, PatH, Chadband's harangue of Jo struck me as a grandstand play for the
admiration of his listeners. They were supposed to admire his fervent interest in
the boy and be moved by his pastoral concern. Yeah, right. IMO, his interst in Jo
was the opportunity to strut, orate and preen. Obviously, another character I really
don't like.

  Speaking of awful characters, old Mr. Smallweed is another. Talk about a perfect
candidate for murder! He joins my short list of potential victims, which so far
only contains Mr. Tulkinghorn. The latter keeps poking his nose into the affairs of
others, and taking cruel action against anyone who dares annoy him. Anybody care to
add to the list?

[Jonathan]

Unbelievable drama in the way Dickens tells it. Doesn't he make a scene out of  the legal triumvirate appeasing their appetites at tha Slap Bang dining house. Of course, Mr Guppy has a plan. Of course he pays for the dinner. Jobling is broke, and I can't see a Smallwood ever picking up a tab. They're just amazingly fast at figuring costs and dividends. Poor Grandma Smallwood, driven crazy by all the numbers she has heard all her life.

Jobling seems to be on the run. His lifestyle, I take it, has gotten him into a lot of debt. Guppy has found him a place to stay, at Krook's, a source of income with with Mr Snagsby, and a false name to secure anonymity. He's being planted at Krook's. There's stuff at Krook's that's worth reading. Even Krook knows that. Jobling could be helpful. Just as he was with the portrait of Lady Dedlock at Chesney Wold. Jobling with his collection of pictures is an expert  in a social who's who sort of way. Knows many things about socialites.

Guppy is still in love. Has to be, with the many references to those 'chords in the human mind.' Strange. Esther, too, once mentioned an early chord. Guppy declines to take his dinner guests to the theater. Bad memories from the time he was following Esther around.

[JoanK]

Yes, I agree that Guppy, our small fish, is up to something! What, I'm not sure.

I hated the picture of the two old people in Chapter 21. How did you all feel? And the Mr. George episode confused me completely. Who are the names that he refuses to give up? mIt sounds more like he's paying blackmail than for a loan. but why? Who is he? AAAAARRRRGH!

[JoanP]

There was only one little clue...the big man in London - his last name begins with "D"...I can think of only one name so far that starts with "D" - but nah, it couldn't be him - or could it?

OH...I missed that - it was Jobling who turned up at Chesney Wold with Guppy?

[PatH]

Yes, Jobling remarks on that (he wasn't named at the time).  I checked back to see which one recognized the picture.  It was Guppy.

What's Guppy up to?  He seems to be planting Jobling at Krook's deliberately.  Is getting Jobling copying work from Snagsby also part of a plot?  When you come to think of it, the copying of legal documents by a bunch of miscellaneous outsiders is a breach of security that could lead to lots of trouble.  Perhaps Nemo had already seen something he shouldn't.

Jobling and Smallwood seem ideally suited for whatever Guppy wants.  They're old acquaintances, so Guppy knows what he's dealing with,

[JudeS]

Don't all attack Guppy. If he is a villain, he is , as his name implies, a very small one.

What I want to mention here is one of the worst horrors Dickens has yet to present us with,
The girl Judy (Sensitivity because she bears my name?) who is the result of a childhood without toys or stories. A child that doesn't know how to laugh.  Such barreness.

This whole family gave me the willies. The Father throwing the pillow at the Mother.  The Mother
sleeping through it all. This is the ultimate nightmare family.  Dickens brings these horrors to life and makes me aware that there are people like this. I felt as if I was in anightmare while reading these pages.
I wonder why Dickens gave us these people to ponder. Perhaps just because he could. Or because he was upset and writing of these creeps calmed him down,

[JoanK]

JUDE:  "A child that doesn't know how to laugh.  Such barreness".

No one could mistake YOU for thar Judy! Yes, each member of that family is creepier than the last.

The man in London whose name begins with "D". When I read it, I assumed that there was no man in London: Smallweed was using that excuse to avoid  any argument or taking resposibility. And that "D" stood for the Devil. But maybe I'm wrong. Could it be .....?

[BarbStAubrey]

particulars but they drive me nuts till I find out what they mean

A blue bag as in

In short, in his bringing up he has been so nursed by Law and Equity that he has become a kind of fossil imp, to account for whose terrestrial existence it is reported at the public offices that his father was John Doe and his mother the only female member of the Roe family, also that his first long-clothes were made from a blue bag.

A bag made of blue fabric, used by law students as a sort of briefcase for carrying legal documents and occasionally garments.

Near the end of the chapter when Mr. Weevle/Mr. Jobling hangs his Divinities of Albion - Albion is the oldest known name of the island of Great Britain.

tapis - Tapestry or comparable material used for draperies, carpeting, and furniture covering.

[BarbStAubrey]

Looks like Mrs. Perkins and Piper see no good in Mr. Weevle assuming he is after Krook's money.  

I think Guppy is always thinking and is a two edge sword - I think he sees how he can help another down and out lawyer while also helping himself, he hopes, to inside information that can see his position elevated at the firm.

At this point I do not see anything that indicates his curiosity about Krook is more than curiosity about secrets Krook may have if only the secret as to who Nemo was and also, that Jobling will be reading the papers from another law firm that again could be beneficial to Guppy - We see the connection between Jobling, Guppy, the trip to Chesney Wold and the painting of Lady D. but I do not think Guppy has put any of that together yet and is simply a very ambitious man who will go to any end to get some insider information that can further his career.

In the very beginning I think this bit helps us see Guppy has no plot - just stabbing in the dark looking for something, anything.

He has blunted the blade of his penknife and broken the point off by sticking that instrument into his desk in every direction...

...He is clear that every such person wants to depose him. If he be ever asked how, why, when, or wherefore, he shuts up one eye and shakes his head. On the strength of these profound views, he in the most ingenious manner takes infinite pains to counterplot when there is no plot, and plays the deepest games of chess without any adversary.

Oh yes, Guppy cannot be named for the fish - Robert John Lechmere Guppy discovered this tiny fish in Trinidad in 1866 - and so with the sur name Guppy it must be a name that had been around in 1852.

[BarbStAubrey]

Guppy eats with his mother and they have Lobster and lettuce

1845 cookbook Modern Cookery of Private Families, Eliza Acton

Take off the large claws of the lobster, hold each of them firmly with the edge upwards, and with a quick light blow from a cutlet bat or ought else convenient for the purpose, crack the shell without disfiguring the fish. Split the tail open with a very sharp knife and dish the lobster in the manner shown in the engraving, either with, or without a napkin under it. When the soft part of the body is required to mix with the dressing, take it out before it is served, and add it to the remoulade.

For lobster salad, you must have lettuce instead of celery. Cut up the two cabbage heads of lettuce as small as possible.

REMOULADE. This differs little from an ordinary English salad-dressing.

Pound very smoothly indeed the yolks of two or three hard-boiled eggs with a teaspoonful of mustard, half as much salt, and some cayenne, or white pepper. Mix gradually with them, working the whole well together, two or three tablespoonsful of oil and two of vinegar.

             Should the sauce be curdled, pour it by degrees to the yolk of a raw egg, stirring it well round as directed for the Mayonnaise.

A dessertspoonful of eschalots, or a morsel of garlic, very finely minced, are sometimes pounded with the yolks of eggs for this sauce. A spoonful of tarragon, cucumber, or eschalot-vinegar, may be added with very good effect; and to give it increased relish, a teaspoonful of cavice, or a little of Harvey's sauce, and a dessertspoonful of chili vinegar may be thrown into it.

             This last is an excellent addition to all cold sauces, or salad-dressings.

A few minutes before it is to be eaten, pour the dressing over the lobster and lettuce and mix it very well. Serve before lettuce become flabby.

[BarbStAubrey]

The beginning of the next chapter

but where there yet lingers the stump of an old forest tree whose flavour is about as fresh and natural as the Smallweed smack of youth.

In Victorian times natural means, a mentally handicapped person.

photo and description of baize - http://www.historicstyle.com/classic_fabrics/woolbaize.html scroll down to photo of baize table cloth.

The sergeant (British spelling) a soldier, in modern society of  'middle class' origins, fulfilling a slightly junior role to the knight in the medieval hierarchy. Sergeants could fight either as heavy to light cavalry, or as well-trained professional infantry, either spearmen or crossbowmen. There are several stories of black serjeants brought back to their village after their death in battle through the late nineteenth century.

[BarbStAubrey]

Porter's chairs - http://g-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/1274186/3-25-rhversailleschair_rect540.jpg - originated in 16th-century France, and were known as "guérites" ( "sentry") with high backs and sides. These chairs were commonly used for invalids and the elderly to protect them from droughts. Their true original purpose was for hall porters.

An essential position in the homes of the well-to-do, the hall porter was the gatekeeper, admitting or refusing callers based on his memory for faces and names of his employer's acquaintances, his knowledge of the acceptable members of high society, and even on his learned understanding of class attributes and distinctions. In an 1857 book, The Household Manager, Charles Pierce writes of the hall porter:

"If his master be a rich man, and a charitable one, that master is being for ever applied to by the distressed, the needy, and the impostor … Hence is called into exercise the necessity for the porter's searching and discriminative eye, and his scrupulous pause before receiving a letter or answering an inquiry."

The hall porter trusted with the security of the household was expected to maintain his post at all times, even sleeping in his chair after dark, and occasionally taking meals there, as well. Some porter's chairs were equipped with drawers under the seat where supplies could be kept, or where hot coals could be placed keep them warm (they were often stationed in chilly, damp entrance halls). The chairs occasionally had a hinged shelf that could be propped up at night to hold a lantern.

Many porter's chairs were hooded, or at least were ample, with high sides, in order to protect him from droughts. The hooded chairs were also thought to be acoustically helpful, so as to help the porter be as vigilant as possible.

[BarbStAubrey]

Nice site with history of the street organ http://www.floraco.com/organs/history/

This site has a photo of a barrel organ that many of us remember from our childhood
 http://www.barrelorgangrinder.com/root.php?id=history

Pouring tea in Victorian kitchen - looks a bit cleaner and more genteel than at the Smallweed's
http://gallery.nen.gov.uk/assets/0812/0000/0545/p1060930_mid.jpg

[BarbStAubrey]

aha - found where some would buy the next addition of the paper with the series of Bleak House - Here is a bill with the photo of the shop - the shop being a Printer, Bookbinder, Stationer, Paper Bag and Label Maker, Music and Book Seller, News Agent & Co.
http://gallery.nen.gov.uk/assets/0704/0000/0003/f_copy.jpg

[Babi]

JoanK, Mr. George was identified as a son of Mrs. Rouncewll. Apparently he went away to war and now owns and operates a shooting gallery. That's pretty much all we know at this point, but it's fairly evident he is going to be deeply involved in this story. He, too, presents a mystery!

 I think Dickens has a reason for everything he does, JUDE. Since he is telling us so
much about this very unpleasant family, they must be important to the story.

 I love that photo/print? of the printing shop, BARB. So detailed, and such an inviting
shop.

[Jonathan]

Barb, thanks for the help with those many, puzzling phrases and expressions. They do slow down ones reading. The Norton Critical must be a big help with that sort of thing.

Dickens certainly finds the drama in everything, with childhood very high on the list. We've looked into the lives of many children; but at the Smallweeds we find children who never had a childhood at all. How bleak.

Mr Smallweed's Mr D could well be the devil. Surely not Sir Dedlock! Mr S is in such an unsavoury business he would naturally pretend he is only the messenger. Like the guys at Chancery: it's not us, it's the system.

[JoanP]

"Surely not Sir Dedlock!"

 Remember this is Dickens, Jonathan.  Stranger things have happened.  Well, almost!
More coincidences - Mr. George is Mrs. Rouncewell's son - remember she's the Dedlock's housekeeper.  Dickens' pen is drawing all of these formerly introduced characters into a tighter circle, isn't he?
Guppy and Jobling have also visited the Dedlock estate - remember Mrs. Rouncewell let them in for a look-around, even though they dropped in without an appointment.
I enjoyed those links, too, Barbara.   The drawing of the Print Shop looks to be from the time period, judging from the woman's dress.

Jude defending Guppy again, though he seems to have a scheme in mind.  Guppy bears watching - though I'm going to admit, anyone who takes his mother out to eat can't be all bad.  Lobster and lettuce, no less!  I wonder if lobster was something special back then - as it is now.  IS lobster plentiful in London.  I wouldn't think so  - but don't know.

Did you notice the reference to Guppy and Miss Flite's rent money?  The reason he knows there is a room available at Krooks is because he "pays Miss Flite's rent to Krook - in her presence."  Do you think  he paying her rent himself, or using someone else's money to pay for her little flat?  

[JoanP]

I'm having trouble placing Mr. Guppy in the scheme of things?  Is he a law clerk?  Studying the law like Richard Carstone?  Does this put him in the Middle Class?
And Jobling?  I can't figure Tony Jobling at all.  He's been fired from a job at Lincoln Fields and will now work copying documents for Mr. Snagsby.   His clothers are threadbare - he's hungry when we meet him for dinner with his friend, Mr. Guppy - but oh my goodness, look at how he's decorating his little flat at the Rag and Bottle - under the assumed name of Mr. Weevle.

He's making curtains, shelving...setting out his musical instruments, fancy dress, prized collection of copper-late and magnificent portraits.  It is said he is familiar with the original paintings featured in the Galaxy Gallery.   
What do you make of this dandy?  It seems he will be able to make himself at home in the Rag and Bottle on Chancery Lane - as well as in polite society in those fancy duds...

[BarbStAubrey]

The Smallwood household - I remember as a kid there were a couple of families who lived in our area who were mentally handicapped and some of their antics described by Dickens reminded me seeing them on their front porches - seems to me to send a family member to a home of sorts was like sending them to a snake pit therefore, many families simply lived with the mentally handicapped.

From the reaction of Bart - he does not appear really upset at them and Judy with resignation and anger she hold inside that only is released at the help, Charley she soldiers on taking care of her Grands...sad but noble realizing the handicap that family lived with and they did not abandon their duty to each other - no Skimpole's in this family.

Knowing now what a Porter chair looks like I can better see the effect of the shenanigans between the two older Smallwoods - the chair would keep them from rolling on the floor. And all that Tea preparation even if with only a sheet-iron tea-tray just for tea and toast - wow - makes me realize how little ceremony we put into our eating - I often sip my coffee or drink tea - more likely iced than hot - while working or standing at the kitchen island - to stop, sit and serve a pot of tea with even bowls or nice cups and saucers hmmm makes me think.

And bless his heart Bart is really trying to be and do something with his life - with all the talk and non-talk of money in his home he grew up knowing money - no wonder he could rattle off the cost of each serving at the restaurant.

Well left off in the middle of the chapter on Bucket - so onward...

[JoanK]

Barb: I love all the pieces of "Dickenalia", really brings the period to life. And we've been neglecting the food! Lobster and lettuce? Sounds yummy.

And did you notice all those cakie things at the tea serving? Wonder what the puffy one was? (why does reading books always make me want to eat?)

Mr. george is Mrs. Rouncewells son? I missed that completely. Why would he want to "cover up" for some of the swells? I admit, I'm lost?

[Laura]

I have to say, I’m with Jonathan --- “Three hundred pages into the novel and still no action!”  Well, a little bit at the end of Chapter 22, but not much.  I won’t say more yet as the discussion hasn’t moved that far.

Mr. Jobling (aka Mr. Weevle – love that name!) moving into Nemos’ former residence is happening for a reason.  I think he will find something hidden in the room and/or will observe things from his room, situated as it is near Mrs. Flite and Mr. Krook.

And, I agree with Jude on the Smallweeds --- “This whole family gave me the willies.” I couldn’t quite believe what I was reading!  The action that stood out most to me was when Judy collected the outside fragments and worn-down heels of loaves, and worse yet, the tea left in the bottoms of cups and saucers and from the bottom of the teapot, and gave those to Charley as her meal.  Unbelievable!

Joan P. asked “Did you notice the reference to Guppy and Miss Flite's rent money?  The reason he knows there is a room available at Krooks is because he "pays Miss Flite's rent to Krook - in her presence."  Do you think he is paying her rent himself, or using someone else's money to pay for her little flat?”

I think Guppy is using someone else’s money to pay the rent.  He says, “Now it has been one of my duties of late, to pay Flite a certain weekly allowance, deducting from it the amount of her weekly rent: which I have paid (in consequence of instructions I have received) to Krook himself, regularly in her presence.” 

The fact that it is a duty suggests that it is a job.  He also says he received instructions about how the transactions were to take place, so he is not doing this of his own accord or with his own money.

[pedln]

Whoever caught the Mr. George/Mrs. Rouncewell relationship is pretty sharp.  That does come up in Chp. 7 or 8 --  Mrs. R, speaking to Watt --    (Kindle on the PC makes for easy searching.)

"You are a fine young fellow. You are like your poor uncle George.

    "They say I am like my father, grandmother."     "Like him, also, my dear—but most like your poor uncle George!”     Why poor, I wonder.

And then nothing more about George until he comes to the Smallwood home.

Barb, I loved the food references.  That lobster salad could almost be found in one of today’s cook books.  Two cabbage heads of lettuce – what an interesting choice of words.  Are they speaking of cabbage or lettuce?

We’ve been talking about figures of speech in Latin class, and I’ve been wondering about a few here in Dickens.  His descriptions of the Smallwoods – is it sarcasm that he is using, especially when he talks about “that benevolent  gentleman?”  That chapter has left me in some confusion.  Mrs. Smallwood – has she always been thus, or could this be age-related dementia?  And just what was going on between Mr S and George?  Is Mr. S a money-lender, a broker of sorts, or does he just steer people in the direction of such?  And as for Mr. D, I got the impression that he was a figment of Mr. Smallwood’s imagination.

Laura, do you think that it's really Mr. Jarndyce who's paying Miss Flite's rent.  He would most likely use his lawyer (Mr. Kenge) who would most likely assign the job to an underling.

[BarbStAubrey]

Jonathan I looked for an annotated copy without success - but then I get the impression Norton's Critical is not a true annotated copy but one with lots of footnotes - frankly it is such fun seeing something while reading and saying to myself I wonder what that is or what that means or how that looks and I can be off in no time to the most fascinating web sites.

I just love seeing how the author uses these what appears to be insignificant details to further his characters and his description of their lives. He even says something about they being sentries in their chairs before the fire. With the description for Bart, his sister and his dead father it appears the family is suffering -

The grandfather in one instance seems bright as a penny and annoyed with his wife but yet, does not read books or the paper or gets out of his house much less his chair.  hmmm is that another allusion to the Chancery where no one moves but they know their intricate paper that can be delayed and the costs that they can rack up as their earnings. And if someone complains just throw a symbolic cushion at them by complaining about the paper they sent to the courts.

JoanP, didn't we learn to our surprise that it was Doc Woodcourt who couldn't make enough money in London so he went off to India to increase his fortune and he was the one supporting Miss Flite.

Yes, I agree that was an eyes wide open catch Babi that George was the eldest lost son of Mrs. Rouncewell - they all have their purpose and place like a giant jigsaw puzzle.

I love the way Dickens starts the chapter characterizing an allegory as if a character rather than a literary devise to further meaning. And here we have poor Jenny back in of all places Tom-all-Alone's.

[Laura]

Pedln and Barb, I think Barb is right about Mr. Woodcourt paying Mrs. Flite’s rent.  I knew Guppy wasn’t doing it, but I wasn’t sure who was until I read Barb’s post.  I am having trouble keeping track of all these people who work in the area of law!

Chapter 21 is confusing, trying to sort out what is real and what is not.  I took everything at face value and assumed that everyone was telling the truth and that people referenced really exist.  We’ll see how those assumptions work out!

[JoanP]

Good morning!

I don't see  a conflict here regarding Miss Flite's support.  I believe that Guppy is actually bringing the money for her rent and paying Krook "in her presence." We don't know yet from whom he is getting the money.    That had been going on for some time before Nemo's death and Dr. Woodcourt was called in.  Shortly after that, Miss Flite began to receive an extra seven shillings.  We're told that Woodcourt is suppling these additional funds- but  Esther assumed it was her Guardian.  I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be John Jarndyce who is  giving Woodcourt the money for Miss Flite's living expenses.  Remember when Esther noticed how little food she had?  I think she described her living situation to Jarndyce that night when the dark medical man came to Bleak House for dinner.
 I think that everyone is taking care of dear Miss Flite. (I'm wondering "why" - we don't know what her law suit is about, do we?  That's another mystery for another day.)

I've got the Norton Critical Edition - heavily footnoted and will be glad to share any of the information there.  Just ask when you are puzzling over something and I'll see if it's there.

[JoanP]

Laura, I too believe  that the characters described in Chapter XXI are based on real people.  These were hard times in London.    People turned to borrowing money out of desparation.  Money lending was big business.  The Smallweeds were making money off of this situation - but they were just one part of a huge crime operation.  I'm still looking for the big man in the city whose last name begins with "D", Jonathan.

When we were discussing Dickens' last novel,  The Mystery of Edwin Drood, we talked about the author's insomnia.  One hundred and fifty years ago.  At the time he was writing Bleak House, Dickens took to walking the streets of London after midnight - and it is then that he came face to face with the night life of the city - the poverty, the drunkenness, the illness, the crime, the homelessness - he called it  "houselessness"

Dickens wrote an essay called NIGHT WALKS, which you might find interesting.

[Babi]

 I don't find the delay in introducing the murder troubling. After all, a murder mystery
is not the purpose of the book. It does serve to hold the interest of the serial readers
and introduces a novelty.
  I totally agree with LAURA about Judy's idea of feeding the servant. Judy is definitely
on my list of unpleasant characters. If there were any readers of Dickens behaving like
that, I hope they had the grace to blush.

 The "cabbage heads of lettuce" caught my eye, too, PEDLN. So odd. I assume it refers to
the lettuce, like iceberg, that are round like cabbage.  Someone wondered if lobster was
common in England. Being an island, I assume all kinds of seafood would be readily
available.
  "That benevolent gentleman", Mr. Smallwood, is IMO definitely sarcasm. Dickens does
that quite a bit, especially in reference to his more unsavory characters.

 I don't think Dr. Woodcourt was supporting Miss Flite financially, BARB. My impression
was that he was providing medical care free of charge, and also simply being a friend to
her, on call whenever she needed him.

[BarbStAubrey]

Did we jump to conclusions - the chapter when Mr. Woodcourt came to say goodby bringing his mother with him is where we thought he was seeing to the shillings a day to Miss Flite

"For you," said Caddy with a kiss. "They were left behind by somebody."

"Left behind?"

"At poor Miss Flite's," said Caddy. "Somebody who has been very good to her was hurrying away an hour ago to join a ship and left these flowers behind. No, no! Don't take them out. Let the pretty little things lie here," said Caddy, adjusting them with a careful hand, "because I was present myself, and I shouldn't wonder if somebody left them on purpose!"

"Do they look like that sort of thing?" said Ada, coming laughingly behind me and clasping me merrily round the waist. "Oh, yes, indeed they do, Dame Durden! They look very, very like that sort of thing. Oh, very like it indeed, my dear!"