Bleak House by Charles Dickens - February Book Club Online

[JoanP]

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Bleak House                            
by Charles Dickens

                   

Bleak House is the 10th novel by Charles Dickens, published in twenty monthly installments between March 1852 and September 1853. It is held to be one of Dickens's finest novels, containing one of the most vast, complex and engaging arrays of minor characters and sub-plots in his entire canon. The story is told partly by the novel's heroine, Esther Summerson, and partly by an omniscient narrator. The story revolves around the mystery of Esther Summerson's mother and it involves a murder story and one of English fiction's earliest detectives, Inspector Bucket. Most of all, though, the story is about love and how it can cut through human tangles and produce a happy ending. The house where Dickens lived spent summers with his family, beginning in 1850, is said to have inspired his novel of the same name.  Among others, he wrote David Copperfield in this house.

A New Meaning in the Roman  (click to enlarge)

INSTALMENT XV XVI

DATE of PUBLICATION    May. 1853 June 1853

CHAPTERS 47-49  50-53

DISCUSSION DATES Apr. 26-Apr. 30  May 1- May 5

Friendly Behaviour of Mr. Bucket (click to enlarge)

               Some Topics to Consider

Chapter  XLVII  Jo's Will 1. Was it just a coincidence that  Allan Woodcourt took Jo to Miss Flite's and then to Mr. George's shooting range for his last days, the same path Gridley followed?    2. Why does Mr. George risk taking Jo in?  And why does Allan Woodcourt send for John Jarndyce? 3. What did you understand by the title of the first  chapter of this Installment: Jo's Will? 4. How does the doctor show that he regards Jo as more than a sick animal in need of comfort?   5.  "Dead your majesty, lords and gentlemen.  Right/Wrong Reverends.  Dying thus around us everyday"  Is Dickens' message  to his readers clear enough?. Chapter XLVIII  Closing In 1. Lady Dedlock, her pride beaten down, ready to flee.  But where can she go?  Do you understand why she is sending Rosa away at this time? 2. Why does Sir Leceister speak in favor of keeping Rosa at Chesney Wold, while Mr. Rouncewell speaks in favor of dismissing her from the Dedlock patronage?  An interesting turn of events! 3. Why does M. Tulkinghorn disapprove of Lady Dedlock's decision?  How does this violate their agreement?  Do you believe he really intends to   "undeceive"  Sir Leceister? 4. Where has Lady Dedlock gone when she left the garden?  Do you believe she was just going for a walk or might she have had another destination? 5. What was that Roman on the ceiling, a paralyzed dumb witness, pointing at?  Can you find Dickens' exact words? Chapter XLIX  Dutiful Friendship  1.  Mrs. Bagnet's happy  birthday celebration. Where did Mr. George find the money to get her that beautiful brooch? 2. Do you believe that Detective Bucket showed up at the Bagnets' looking for a wiollencellar or did he know that Mr. George would be there? 3.  When did you become aware that the detective had something else on his mind, other than wiollencellars? 4. A good question - "What is public life without private ties?" Do you think this is Dickens asking, referring to his own life?  Does Bucket seem to have both? 5.  Does Bucket seem to have  a good case against Mr. George?  Do you think he'd try to get the reward if he believed there was a chance George was innocent?.

 

Related Links:
 Characters in Bleak House by Groups;  Map of London  1851 (double click); UNSOLVED MYSTERIES ; Interactive Map of London

 

                                                  

Bleak House  "A dreary name," said the Lord Chancellor. "But not a dreary place at present, my lord," said Mr. Kenge.

DLs:  JoanP, Marcie, PatH, Babi,   JoanK  

[Babi]

  I loved Jo's (Dickens') comments, PATH. Unfortunately, they are all too accurate.

Another quote from Dickens..this one delighted me...“The fashionable world, tremendous
orb, nearly five miles around ---is in full swing, and the solar system works respectfully
at its appointed distance.”

 You're right, BARB. In the hands of a master, such scenes become very real and touch us
very closely. I suspect scenes that would sound melodramatic take place somewhere every
day; we have just insulated ourselves for our own protection.

 Finally, the murder we've all been expecting.  Now we shall see what manner of detective
our author has created. 

[JoanP]

Do you have any thoughts on the meaning of the title, "Jo's Will"?   The subject of "wills" seems to be a recurrent theme...from the Jarndyce will on...

There was an allusion to workhouse in this chapter - which Allan Woodcourt quickly ruled out.  The workhouses seem worse, far more inhumane than debtors'  prison.  Actually, living in the workhouse sounds worse than living in Tom-All-Alone's...

"Before 1834, poor people were looked after by buying food and clothing from money collected from land owners and other wealthy people.
The Poor Law Amendment Act of 1834, ensured that no able-bodied person could get poor relief unless they went to live in special workhouses. " http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/homework/victorians/workhouses.html

Dickens has been calling  for a reform of the  Poor Law Ammendment - and the conditions in the workhouses in several novels, you'll remember Oliver Twist.  I think he is addressing the shortcomings of the workhouses and the need for reform  again here.   The poor would do anything to avoid the workhouses.  Those of the  "fashionable world" believe that they are under no obligation - under the existing law.  I think Dickens is putting the  blame and responsibility where it belongs here -

"Dead your majesty, lords and gentlemen.  Right/Wrong Reverends.  Dying thus around us everyday."  

[JoanP]

"For Mr. Tulkinghorn's time is over for evermore, and the Roman pointed at the murderous hand uplifted against his life, and pointed helplessly at him, from night to morning, lying face downward on the floor, shot through the heart."

So, at last, we have the murder..., Barbara - and quite a few suspects - with motves.  Dickens seems to be pointing at Lady Dedlock, although I don't believe it for a second.  But she has no alibi. ?  I can't see her getting into his house - shooting a gun.  And she's on foot as she leaves the garden at Chesney Wold.  How far is Chesney Wold from London?  Do we know that?  Was the now-deceased Mr. Tulkinghorn on foot when he left Chesney Wold?

We need Mr. Bucket on the case!  Although he seems to have made up his mind about the murderer...
 

[BarbStAubrey]

JoanP, I do not think they were at Chesney Wold because if you remember Tulkinghorn walked home after his infamous private visit with Lady Deadlock - seems to me that bit where he tried to put Lady Deadlock on the defense took place in the London TownHouse and so if he can walk home I would imagine Lady Deadlock could walk to his home.

[JoanP]

OK, you're right, Barb...LadyD has no alibi.  Unless she had made an arrangement to meet someone else when she went out the garden gate.  that person could provide her with the needed alibi.

  I went back to the first paragraph of the chapter -

"The place in Lincolnshire has shut its many eyes again and the house in town is awake..."

[PatH]

This was one of the very early detective stories, and the readers were not yet sophisticated.  It will be interesting to see how good it is by modern standards.  Bucket certainly looks promising as a detective; he's pretty sharp.

[JudeS]

Just finished the chapters.

In Chapt. 47 a "Fitz Jarndyce" is mentioned by Miss Flite. Who is this person? Anyone know?

Dickens is such a good writer. He pulls us through the murder of Tulkinghorn in a chapter that is all darkness. Then he thrusts us into the comedy of Mrs. Bagnet's Birthday which is all so real and so light that you forget the dark that has just passed. That is until Mr. Bucket arrives.  It is obvious from the first that he is acting and has come for George. He does so in a way as to not disturb the happy Bagnet family.
A nice guy detective.He is clever and subtle but does his job.

Jonathan: You have my sympathy in the loss of your BIL.
 

[JoanP]

Jude, Miss Flite has frequently called Esther Miss Fitz-Jarndyce - going back to the day she first met the Fitz-Jarndyce wards.  She regards them as the Jarndyce clan, it seems.   I wonder if she'll call her Mrs. Fitz-Jarndyce once she marries John.  Have they talked about setting a date for their wedding yet?

You're right about the abrupt change in mood and tone - especially so following the intense scenes.  I find I'm looking forward to the lighter scenes as  relief.  Sometimes I find it odd how the action proceeds after the dramatic ones -  characters seem to be the last to know about things that happen in the same vicinity -  like Jo's death or Tulkinghorn's murder.
You'd think Mr. George would have heard about Tulkinghorn's murder, wouldn't you?  Whoops?  Maybe he did?  Could that be why he is acting so jumpy, looking so strange when he arrives for Mrs. Bagnet's birthday party.  That just occurs to me now.

"This was one of the very early detective stories, and the readers were not yet sophisticated."

.  They weren't looking for DNA evidence at the murder scene, PatH?  Can you compare this murder mystery to any others Dickens wrote?

[PatH]

They weren't looking for DNA evidence at the murder scene, PatH?  Can you compare this murder mystery to any others Dickens wrote?

Right.  Somehow DNA wouldn't be Dickens' sort thing even if it had been known then--too mechanical.  He's more people-oriented.  I meant two things: whether a bit of sensationalism alone would satisfy his audience, and how much Dickens played by the sort of rules mystery readers have come to expect.  The crime should be puzzling.  The detective should do real detecting, (either with logic or clues or physical stuff like following people), not just somehow know who did it.  The writer should sort of play fair--the reader should have some hope of guessing the solution, the criminal should be a character in the story, not someone who appears at the last moment, and so on.  It looks like a very satisfying mystery by any standards, and Bucket is clever and subtle.

The only other Dickens mystery I've read is Edwin Drood.  The murder there is the main part of the plot, not just one segment, as here.  It's unfinished, but depending on how you think it was going to turn out, it's heading toward a satisfying detective story, a good psychological study of a murderer, or both.

[BarbStAubrey]

No mystery but there is the murder by Bill Sikes and Nancy and then there is a short story about a trail for murder http://www.dickens-literature.com/The_Trial_For_Murder/0.html - but no other mystery except as you say Edwin Drood.

Mysteries seem to be fairly new - looked it up and they give credit to Edgar Allan Poe for 'Murder on the Rue Morgue.' and then the first full length mystery novel is a toss up because of publishing dates versus when the books were actually written - the two are Doyle's 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' and Collin's 'The Moonstone'.

[BarbStAubrey]

That whole bit with Lady Deadlock and Tulkinghorn after she dismissed her maid to Mr. Rouncewell was quite a human chess match wasn't it - she had few moves but played them well and had Tulkinghorn on the run. I don't for a minute think she broke any agreement - it was a ruse to allow Tulkinghorn to attempt to have more power over her and she saw the game for what it was outwitting him with silence. Brilliant.

[marcie]

Yes, Barbara, Lady D and Tulkinghorn were well matched in not showing the other any emotion or betraying what was on their mind. Tulkinghorn admired her power. That's one of the reasons I don't think that Lady D would shoot Tulkinghorn. She has too much restraint. Why blow everything now after keeping herself in strict check for all of her adult life?

[Babi]

 A good question, JUDE. Miss Flite has mentioned 'Fitz-Jarndyce' more
than once, I believe. She has been around so long, I have come to suspect that she
sees connections that others do not. Perhaps Esther reminds her of someone attached
to the case from the past. Perhaps Lady Dedlock's family??  Just speculating.
 I like your observation on Bagnet.  Nice,..but he does his job.

 Another reason George might have been acting so oddly, JOANP, could be that he is
greatly worried over the debt he owes Smallweed, for which his old friend co-signed.
He is afraid he will be the cause of harm to that family. That would certainly have
me in a jumpy state.

 Good definition of a good mystery, PatH.  Just the way I like them.  I can't believe Lady Dedlock killed Tulkinghorn, much as she might have wished to see him dead.
I agree she just doesn't seem the type, plus, she is the most obvious suspect, which to me
rules her out at once.    Then there is a George, who is one of Dickens'  'good guys' and imo
not likely to be the guilty party.  I can see Hortense committing murder, but what is her motive?

[PatH]

The confrontation between Lady D. and Tulkinghorn is a battle of giants.  He is very admiring of her strategy and self-control, in fact he comes dangerously close to feeling actual emotion.

But she does not win.  He holds all the cards, and when he goes, she is left with the knowledge that he will reveal her secret when he chooses, the only concession being that it will not be that night.

Of course this gives her the perfect motive for the murder.  T. dies during her short safe time, and with luck her secret is preserved.  I too find it hard to believe she did it--she's too sympathetic, and she's the heroine's mother.

[JoanP]

None of us believe that Mr. George is the murderer, is that right?
 Babi mentions Hortense - but she wants something from Tulkinghorn, so she wouldn't have killed him.  Where's the motive?
I'm remembering a comment Mr. George made - many chapters ago - regarding the people who came to his shooting range for target practice.  Remember he mentioned "French women" specifically.  The only French woman in this piece is Hortense.  I can see more trouble for Mr. George on the horizon if it turns out that the gun that killed Tulkinghorn is somehow traced back to George's shooting range.  But again, what would Hortense's motive have been to shoot Tulkinghorn.

I find it hard to believe Lady D did it, too, Pat.  In dismissing Rosa, she planned to leave, rather than wait for Tulkinghorn to "undeceive"  Sir Leicester.  I've been trying to figure out where she would have gone.  It would have to be a place where she is not recognized.  We know she left the London townhouse.  I guess we need to read further to find out if she returned home that night. IF she did not return, then maybe she'll have an alibi as to where she was at the time of the murder.

PatH, I think that Dickens, the "master of construction" has thought out his plot very carefully from the beginning - and that the clues will have all been planted earlier in the story - no unfair surprises.  Even though this is an early mystery, I really don't think he's going to disappoint his modern reader.  I have to admit that I was a bit diappointed in Poe's mysteries - never being able to figure out the denouement from the clues he provided.

[JudeS]

JoanP
Your remarks about Poe made me think.
I know he is considered by some to be the first mystery writer but I always looked at his works as stories, not mystery stories for precisely the reasons you laid out. The clues don't lead to the denoument.
I am a fan of Poe's potry but not of his stories. He probably wrote them for monetary purposes but his great talent was in his verse.
Dickens , on the other hand, is a serious planner in his novels and if he chooses to present a murder he has laid his plans well before the event actually happens in the novel.
So, yes, we will remember clues after the denoument of this murderer.
We are, according to my Kindle 77% into the story. It is a new way of thinking about plot development and what happens when in a Dickens novel.

[JoanK]

I admit I'm confused as to why Tulkinghorn would have thought that "saving" Rosa was so serious as to cause him to reveal all to Sir L. Or is it just that he sees that with Rosa taken care of, Lady D. is free to flee somewhere?

Anyway, she is clearly desparate. Dickens makes a very convincing case that she is guilty. I hope it is what we mystery readers call a "red herring": clues that send you in the wrong direction.

Best would be if Smallweed turned out to have done it: we'd be rid of both "bad guys" at one swoop. But I can't imagine the motive.

Anyway, if I know Dickens, he'll leave us hanging for awhile. I don't expect to find the answer yet.

[JoanK]

Pat did a grerat job of describing the conventions that we mystery readers expect. I wish more modern writers took them seriously. I read a lot of mystery stories, and too often, there is no detecting at all -- in the last chapter, suddenly someone says "I killed him and now I'm going to kill you, heh, heh" and the detective says "Oh no you're not", and bops him/her on the head.

Lazy writing.

But mysteries are still good reading. Any of you who like them and aren't in the mystery discussion, come on over.

http://seniorlearn.org/forum/index.php?topic=807.3640

[BarbStAubrey]

Well 77% or not I am becoming impatient - the book has turned into a page turner - the early 70% was paced leisurely but held my interest and the writing was the highlight for me however, since Jo dying the story seems to have attained another level that has me wanting to know what next...I am tempted to read on...the plot has taken over my imagination...the characters are well defined and we know there will be some fabulous description of setting but now I just want to know what happens next, why this one is acting as they are and for me the big question still looms - when did Lady Deadlock and Sir Leicester marry in relationship to her being pregnant - at least part of my curiosity is answered that she probably married thinking the Capitan was lost or died at sea and being pregnant she better hurry up and marry.  

If Babi is right, Hortense seems such a minor character and Tulkinghorn such the major character I guess that would be how a small thing can trip up the great everytime  - lots of good quotes about small things - like: "If you can't do great things, do small things in a great way." Or better yet, in 1813, nine small out-gunned ships defeated a Royal Navy fleet of six heavy vessels in the Battle of Lake Erie.  

[JoanK]

"If you can't do great things, do small things in a great way."

Or how about Mother Theresa saying that you can't do great things in this life but you can do small things with great love.

[BarbStAubrey]

I know what you are saying Joan and it is a wonderful bit of wisdom but stop and laugh a bit - do you think if it is Hortense that murdered Tulkinghorn she did it out of great love?   

[JoanK]

Good question.

[Jonathan]

If, If, If....'do you think she did it out of great love?'

I can't stop laughing, Barb. Of course. It would take a great love to find the heart that was never there. As you pointed out in another post, how interesting...the man with no heart is shot through the heart. Was that fact intended as a clue? I took it as meaning, look for someone capable of deadly marksmanship. Someone looking for the heart in Tulkinghorn? What a supreme irony.

Why Mr Tulkinghorn? Is he made to pay for all the misery in the book? It's grossly unjust. This is no common murder mystery. Dickens is playing for higher stakes. His book could as easily be seen as a ghost story. Even as a romance.

Thank you, all, for the kind thoughts

[BarbStAubrey]

Welcome back Jonathan - I hope your week was not just somber but filled with the bitter sweet memories that can take us past the loss of a good friend - your post expressing your admiration for Bill kept you among us.

[Babi]

Even though I don't know of a motive for the French maid to kill Tulkinghorn, it
has been apparent that she is emotionally volatile, easily offended, and vengeful by
nature. I can well imagine her committing murder. If so, we may have to wait to
discover why.

 Why Mr. Tulkinghorn, JONATHAN?  He seems a very likely candidate to me. He has been
the cause of misery to a number of people, any one of whom would probably greet his
death with relief and a heartfelt 'good riddance'. If he has a friend in the world,
Dickens hasn't introduced him to us. Between Tulkinghorn and Smallweed, it was a
toss-up in my mind which  would be the victim.  Both were living lives that made them
hated on all sides.  It's a wonder to me that Smallweed's own family hasn't put him out of
their misery.  (The 'their' was intentional.)

[BarbStAubrey]

OK a Tulkinghorn today - we had Hoover, probably the CIA although, I do not put Panetta or Petraeus in that catagory except the job may have them worming out and keeping untold secrets - Now I do think Dick Cheney without a heart was similar to Tulkinghorn.

And Smallweed, today we have to include the big bankers who are taking back homes without giving folks a chance to recoup or they take them back just because their investment is not the percentage of the value they expected.

And so Dickens lives on many fronts, again 160 years later. Sheesh...

Which says it is not systems or even governments it is people who take advantage of systems and others in the wider community which is really all a government is - in a book like Bleak House it is easy to ID the bad guys but on a national scale we punish the easy crooks and leave the ones who do mostly paper damage go.

Well the Birthday party was a welcome relief - is that it - we would be as well off celebrating our life. The Bagnet's seem like good people trying to bring up a family and helping a friend but their family's safety is tied to that friend - an example of how we are all connected as today the mortgage crises has lowered the value of just about everyone's property and sent many into the lines of the un-employed.

No wonder this is a classic - nothing changes - the book is really more about people and their moral values - He is saying, no matter the government system and increased knowledge people react to life with their own concern and their own inner compass - we cannot get our arms around everyone to create the peace-loving utopia we all desire.

Even as dislikable as is Smallweed - you almost can see how he has to make a dime as the saying goes and with his physical handicap along with his lack of advanced education he had few avenues opened to him. When it comes down to it at this time in history we had no attitude or laws about spousal abuse - heck, even here in the US it was only 27 years ago when the law changed so that a fine for spousal abuse was no longer a $25 fine - yes, not a mis-print, $25 dollars, equivalent to most traffic tickets at the time. Doesn't make the character Smallweed any more likable or acceptable but there is some reason to his choices.

Pahleeeaassse someone tell me what is a wiollencellar I have looked it up 6 ways from Sunday and cannot find what it is - some kind of cellar that... - maybe it is a colloquial dialect for several words but it is beyond me...

[PatH]

That's Bucket's cockney accent saying the musical instrument violoncello, usually called a cello.  Bagnet evidently sells musical instruments.

[JoanP]

In the  car  can't post much now   But it just occurs
Could it mean a violin seller

[BarbStAubrey]

Never would have guessed a violin seller but could be - I was thinking with the wi starting the combenation of sounds that it has something to do with a wine celler - please after y'all are safely home and have a minute would you see if Norton's gives us some insight - the violin cello or seller sounds as good as can be but it would be so nice to nail this - now you have me curious as to what Mr. Bagnet does to earn his money.

Wouldn't it be lovely if you could hit a character and have all of the pages and chapters that include that character listed...ah so we can only dream...

[Laura]

As for the meaning of the chapter title, Jo’s Will, I think there are two possibilities.  Will could mean his last will and testament, what he leaves behind to those left on earth.  Certainly, Jo touched a number of people, as evidenced by the emotions displayed by those who cared for him, especially at the end of his life.  Will could also mean Jo’s desire, or what he wanted.  He didn’t want to go to the workhouse and did everything in his power to live his life on his own terms.

Lady Dedlock didn’t commit murder.  I think George was acting oddly because of Jo’s death, or so he says.  I believe him.  I don’t believe he was the murderer either.  I don’t know who did the deed.  I am just going to read onto the next section.  I have a feeling it won’t be revealed in that section either, but I can wait.  You have to be wiling to be patient with a long book like this, and I am.

[JudeS]

BarbST...
Bagnet, according to our character chart and chapt.49 is an ex-artillery man and at present a Bassoon player.

However the chart has  what seems to be a mistake.  Malta and Quebec are Bagnets daughters, not Bayham Badger's daughters as listed.

Jo reminds me of the movie, "Angels With Dirty Faces", about poor children .in N.Y. City (If I remember correctly).

[PatH]

In chapter XXVII, More Old Soldiers than One, Bagnet's residence, in a street of little shops, is described as a "...musician's shop, having a few fiddles in the window, and some Pan's pipes and a tambourine, and a triangle..."  Later he and his son leave to play the bassoon and the fife at a theater.

InXLIX, Dutiful Friendship, Bucket looks in the shop window, he says because a friend wants a second-hand wiolincellar, of good tone.  As he leaves, he reminds Bagnet of the second-hand wiolincellar "A good tone, mind you!  My friend...saws away at Mo-zart and Handel, and the rest of the big-wigs...."

So Bagnet makes his living by playing the bassoon and selling instruments, and the wiolincellar is a cello.

[JoanP]

We're home -one  thought on "wiolinsellar," Barb.  Norton doesn't mention it at all.  I did one more search and found that there was a very fine violin made in Romania in the nineteenth century by Andreas Zeller.  It was well known in England at the time.  Do you suppose Bucket was asking Mr. Bagnet to find him one of these "wiolinzellers"?  It sounds right - if you don't see the word...

But wait - I think PatH got it - look at this - the Italian word - wiolonczela.
Look at these   pictures of wiolonczela
- an Italian word, Dickens probably couldn't spell it! No wonder Norton couldn't find it!

Looks like a cello to me, Pat.  I think that's Ginny when she was just starting her cello lessons...
What do you want to bet that Mr. Bagnet locates a nice wiolonczela for Bucket before the story ends?  - Provided he doesn't get his friend, Mr. George, convicted, of course.

[JoanP]

Are there any  small details mentioned in passing that you think are going to gain in importance as the plot unravels?  How about that "beautiful brooch" that Mr. George brought as a gift to the party for Mrs. Bagnet?  I thought it strange that Mr. George would show up with expensive jewelry when he's in such dire financial difficulties. There isn't too much beautiful jewelry talked mentioned in this story...except of course, Lady Dedlock's. I think that brooch will turn out to be of interest.

ps  Jude, of course you're right about those Bagnet children's names.    Do you remember where their son, Woolwich's name came from?  I fixed the character link just now.
I don't remember if the Bayham Badgers had any children - she was the wife with all the husbands...

[JoanP]

Laura, I think we'll think we've solved the mystery several times, but  Dickens needs to sell a few more installments, so he can't reveal all.  But we are getting closer, don't you think?  Babi thinks it was Hortense.  I'm leaning towards Sir Leicester, right now.  What do you think?

  Let's see where we stand after reading the next installment. The next chapters are all Bucket.  Can you believe he'd arrest Mr. George if he doesn't believe he's guilty?  Can you think of a reason why he'd do that?  Do you believe he'd do it for the reward money?  Is this dutiful friendship?

Barb, this is getting to be a page turner, wanting to know who dun it.  BUT there's so much more to this novel than solving the mystery, don't you think?  Dickens is telling a story, multiple stories, actually.  Only one of them involves a murderer.  Dickens has so many ends to tie up in the upcoming chapters.

[bookad]

hi there

this discussion is....fascinating....
ordinarily when reading there is no where near the dimensions I am getting from everyone's ideas and thoughts...good side pieces of info as I found reading Joan P's web site about poverty and the poor house  (a gloomy side of the Victorian era)

we have a great TV program in Canada, called 'Murdock Mysteries' based on a Toronto local, though filmed near 'Niagara on the Lake, I believe...based on mystery books by Maureen Jennings...situated in the 1890's; but it gives a great visual of those involved in solving mysteries in a much earlier time....i.e. racing to the scene of a crime on a bicycle...new technologies as fingerprinting...a woman pathologist with a bib apron checking a cadaver with her hands bare of gloves

it all gives a good time essence of an unhurried pace and much less population...and lots of courtesy

I bought a blackberry playbook and managed to download a copy of bleak house from the Gutenberg site before we left Florida (and I love it as it has decided breaks between paragraphs making it much easier to keep the thread of Dickens's 1850's English)so have been keeping up with chapters ....

anxious to know 'who dun it'

Deb

[BarbStAubrey]

Hurrah on so many counts - the biggie for me is I have service again - the phone and Internet is with U-verse and both were down since around 6: Just got back in here and lo and behold Pat and Joan you solved it - and went above the salt solving it with a possible Italian instrument - - thanks you, thank you - terrrifffic -

I did learn before the service went down that London cockney does turn a V into a W so that was a help but never would have found what both of you found because I have gotten in such a muddle trying to find things in the book that at the time seem inconsequential and end up being a key to understanding something 5 or 8 chapters later.

I am surprised there is not a good annotated copy of Bleak House much like the one done for Alice in Wonderland.

Was it Laura that said she was patient - better reader than I am - as you say JoanP there are so many loose ends and I want to get more of those ends understood NOW - yes, NOW!  

As to Tulkinghorn - what about Bucket himself - I am thinking maybe someone who works for Tulkinghorn and has a grudge - he may have assistance that would love to strangle him but my guess is the shooting had to be someone who we have already been introduced to in the story.

Don't see how Richard would be a suspect since he is working with Vholes and Ada I just do not see even having the ability to pick up a gun much less shoot it. Could Leicester Deadlock know how much Tulkinghorn is harassing Lady Deadlock so that all loyalty and dependence on him as his attorney are gone - shooting him in the heart though seems like a rageful act and I just do not see Sir Leicester any more than Lady Deadlock filled with that kind of emotion.  

Smallweed couldn't carry it out alone but he would have a motive being angry that George gave Tulkinghorn the writings of Captain Hawdon without going through Smallweed so that Smallweed did not get his commission. Could he talk his daughter into shooting Tulkinghorn?

[Laura]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Guppy is the murderer.  We know that he knows the secret of Esther’s parentage.  We know he is uncomfortable having to keep secrets.  We also know he had/has a crush on Esther.  While he may have moved past wanting to marry her, I don’t think he would want anything damaging about her revealed.

[Babi]

 

No wonder this is a classic - nothing changes

 BARB, that is probably the best nutshell description of a classic that I've seen.  A book is a classic, read through many generations, because people can still identify with what is happening.

 Sorry about the error, JUDE. There were so many 'B' names, I must have gotten my
wires crossed between Badger and Bagnet.

 Hortense seems to have the potential for a murderess, JOANP, but at present she is
just a suspect. I still fail to see a motive. But then, that can be something that
isn't explained until the guilty party is caught and confesses.

 Interesting theory, LAURA, but I can't see Guppy risking his future...his life...in such an act. He
is so cautious!  He couldn't even speak to Esther about his change of heart without prefacing his statement with all kinds of safeguards and legal insurance.