RUN by Ann Patchett ~ June Book Club Online

[JoanP]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

Everyone is welcome

RUN by Ann Patchett

Two families come together in a traffic accident during a snowstorm.  It quickly becomes clear that the families-a poor, single black mother with her 11-year-old daughter and a white, Irish Catholic, former Boston mayor with a biological son and two adopted black college-aged sons,  whose much-loved wife died over 20 years ago -have a connection.     "The book explores how these kids established their sense of belonging and self based on who raised them, and whom they gravitated toward as family.  It also conversely examines the notion of parenthood - what constitutes a parent? Is it simply genetics, or a history of nurturing and love? What role does race play in parenting and familial identity? There are clearly nature vs nurture issues at play here, which are interesting to trace and analyze." (Gayle Weisswasser)   And yet, in an interview, in the back of the paperback edition,  Ann Patchett said that to her, the book was about politics.  The book's central idea is how political responsibility plays out in the smallest and most intimate scale of family life. How did such an idea come to her? A: "I keep reading the newspaper and looking at all of the hardships in the world and it makes me think about issues of sacrifice and social responsibility.  Do we have a moral obligation to use our gifts to help people? These aren't questions that have a right and wrong answer, but I think they are ideas worth struggling with. Run is ultimately a novel about secrets, duty, responsibility, and the lengths we will go to protect our children."

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Discussion Schedule: June 15~17Chapters 1-3 June 18~20 Chapters 4-6 June 21-24 Chapters 7-9 June 25-26 Chapters 10 June 27-30 Chapter 11 and final thoughts

Some Topics for Consideration
June 15 - 30

Chapter 11 and Final Thoughts

1. Father Sullivan played a pivotal role in deciding the statue's owner and dividing the family. Did he continue to play a significant role in the book? What would the book have looked like without him?

2.  Understandable that Teddy would feel guilt and the need to do penance for both Tennessee's death and his uncle's collapse, but why did Tip feel so much guilt that he went to Med school for his penance?  What made him decide to go back to ichthyology on his graduation day?

3.  Did Tip expect that Doyle would give him the statue for a graduation present?  How did you react to his decision to bestow the heirloom statue on Kenya, a  girl who has literally shared nothing with his former wife, Bernadette? Do you think he made the same decision his wife would have made?

4. Towards the end of the story we see images of four mothers (including the Virgin Mary) on Kenya's dresser. What is the author saying about women and mothers to have them all there together?

5. The boys kept finding similarities in their "sister" Kenya – when the fact was…she wasn't related at all. Even Doyle was noticing the physical similarities….were they seeing it because of suggestion?

6. Did you squirm at the idea that Kenya will never know that Tennessee was not her mother or did this lack of information fit in with Ann Patchett's purpose?  What is she saying about nature and nurture here?

7. What is the author's underlying message here? Is she presenting a new definition of family, a commentary on socioeconomics or something totally different?

8. Run includes several incidences of doubling—two brothers who get adopted, two mothers who die, two men named Sullivan, two Tennessee Alice Mosers, two accidents involving hospital stays. What is the effect  of seeing similar characters and events repeated over the course of the book?

9. Of the many characters in Run, which did you feel most connected to on an emotional level? How do you explain that connection?

10. Are you satisfied with how the author tied up the issues of race, family, parental responsibilities? What would you want changed or delved in to with greater depth?

Contact:  JoanP,

[marjifay]

Joan wrote, "Marj, Doyle's wondering if they'd be sued for taking Kenya home from the hospital for the night and his insistance on whether the headlights were on  - sounds like questions a lawyer like Doyle would be concerned with.  It showed how his mind works - as opposed to Teddy - always wanting to help.   I think Patchett was trying to tell us what kind of a person Doyle was. To me, he doesn't sound like a person who would lie about who was driving the car."

Year, Joan, I think you're right-- that's what the author was trying to convey about Doyle's thinking as a lawyer.  Would have helped if she'd written something like, "but that's just the lawyer in Doyle's head speaking."  I guess I like things in black and white.  Perhaps that why I don't care much for most poetry.  lol.
I'm not so sure about Doyle not being one to lie.  Didn't he tell people that Natalie  (think that was her name), and not Sullivan was the driver of the car in which Natalie was killed?

Marj

 

[marcie]

JoanP, I was going to say what you said about the plot twist that the woman who raised Kenya was not her birth mother. You wrote: "I think she's saying something about what makes a family.  Is it blood ties - or something else?"

Bernadette WAS the mother of the two black boys. That's how they felt about her.

Tennessee Moser's friend who raised her baby, Kenya, WAS the mother of Kenya.

[Babi]

  Well, you got me to thinking, MARJ. There is Olympic quality Kenya running, of course.
There is Doyle trying to persuade one of his sons to enter politics and 'run' for office.
There is Sullivan, on the run from his past, until he can come to terms with it.
  I love that summation of Patchett's: "Sullivan is obviously not going to be the
fulfillment of Doyle’s political dreams. Tip was never going to pull his head out
of the aquarium long enough to vote, much less run, and Teddy , Teddy  had all the
political acumen of a Koala.”    
  Another insight into Sullivan. “This business of coming back to take your little part in the play you would never again be the star of was simply more than anyone should have to bear.”  Much as he loved the little boys,  he was no longer the star of his world.

  Interesting thought, JOANP. I'm looking forward to your conclusions on that. I'd
like to think there was a purpose in that 'twist'.  It occurs to me, though, that the
police would not necessarily have to lie about what they found. If both driver and
passenger were flung from the car, depending on where and how they landed, it might
not have been clear who was driving.

[Steph]

I have always had questions about who was driving.. .But then every book I have ever read by Patchett leaves questions. She simply does not explain or tie things up.She simply presents the story. I love that in the end.

[JoanP]

The relationship between Doyle and Sullivan is heartbreaking, isn't it? Babi's quote -  little Sullivan Doyle would never again be the star...indicates his problems, the separation between this father and son had begun before the accident. Can there relationship ever be repaired - will time heal it?  It seems the only thing that would make this remotely possible is if Doyle was honest with the son - But...does Doyle really believe Sullivan wasn't driving the car that night, Marjifay?  Does he have any proof?  If there is the slightest possibility that he wasn't driving, then Doyle will have to cling to it.
Do you see any hope that Sullivan will find his way, without his father, without facing the truth?

As we read about Tip and Tedd, I'm  seeing the same lack of real communication between father and sons.  Marcie, do you see the story more about "mothering" than fathering?  No matter how much time and attention Doyle gave to his sons, they didn't take the place of a mother.

Is Patchett saying something about the difference between mother-love and father-love?  I'm asking this for personal reasons, having lost my own mother at a young age (7) with four younger siblings, we never had a stepmother - or an aunt, or any mother substitute - though my father, like Doyle, did his best.

When Kenya comes into the Doyles' home- during this brief 24 hour period, she seems to introduce something that has been missing.  I'm trying to figure out what it is about her that makes all of them seem to take a second look as to how they are living their lives.  

[mabel1015j]

Patchett does a great job of giving us the "voices" of the characters and an insight into their personalities. On pg 231, at the museum, it's clear by the way P has worded the paragraph how excited and fearful Kenya is to realize there are vast unknowns in her world. Things she thought were settled - the species of fish in the world, symbolic of other things - obviously aren't and the reader knows how much that is true
. P uses short phrasing and questions to give us Kenya's excitement and awe.

But what was the long paragraph on pg 240 about the "cold" about?

I think the Tennessees conversation was delirium, a dream, but then, i'm an agnostic about an afterlife.

I don't like most of the characters of the story - in terms of wanting them for friends - other then Kenya. The men are boring, cold, silent and self-absorbed. Kenya brings them enthusiasm and emotion and another way to see the world. Isn't that what our grandchildren do for all of us?

Tip's surprise that Kenya does not know about Thoreau the way he does and his recognition that K's life has been very different from his is brilliant. I would start every semester with my students saying "each of you has had different experiences in your life and therefore has different knowledge and information in your computer brains. Don't let your mind say to yourself or to another 'you don't know that!?! Boy are you dumb/unsophisticated/illiterate  (pick a negative word) ' Knowledge  has little to do w/ stupidity or superiority. It has to do w/ what you have been exposed to in your life, sometimes by your choices, but often because of choices made by someone else."

 Tip learns a great lesson that opens his mind to other possibilities.

It is a great lesson to the reader about the importance of diversity. If all the people around us are all reading, seeing,  hearing, talking about and  experiencing the same things we have a very narrow world and a narrow frame for understanding the world. Having to see different people's worlds helps us understand people and situations beyond our little box. Diverse classrooms and workplaces make us be in contact w/ people who have done, seen, experienced a different life than we have and therefore they have a different knowledge base in their brains then we do. That doesn't make them stupid, it makes them different. That's a plus, not a negative. They expand our world and our way of seeing the world, if we let them

[Babi]

  I can't say I see Teddy or Sullivan as cold and self-absorbed, JEAN. Both have shown
themselves alert to the needs of others. Tip is wholly absorbed in his work, which
could certainly be boring to everyone else around him. I don't think he's uncaring;
just not very demonstrative. Also, somewhat resentful of his father's constant
attempts to interest him in politics.
  I do admire your introductory speech to you students. You made a very important point,
right up front.  I can remember when my children first met a youngster who had great
difficulties in learning. My son was somewhat scornful, until I pointed out to him
that this boy had to work ten times as hard as they did for everything he learned, and
he deserved far more credit for all that he did learn. After that, they behaved toward
him with much more respect and friendliness.

 JOAN, I suspect any household that suddenly included a unknown 'sister', with a
very different background, and introducing another 'mother' into their awareness,
is bound to force some review of their own outlook on life.

 Then, the death of that birth mother, and the death of John Sullivan, resulted in feelings of guilt
in the two young men that changed their career decisions.  Teddy's interest in people and concern for them makes him popular in the political arena.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.
And Tip resolves to give up his beloved fish and become a doctor.  A decision which makes him
utterly miserable, and I was glad when he decided not to continue down that road.

[Steph]

As always Patchett leaves me wanting to journey further with the characters. To join in their lives and see what will occur.. She is an excellent writer to constantly surprise me with where she goes in the end.

[marjifay]

Jean said, "I would start every semester with my students saying "each of you has had different experiences in your life and therefore has different knowledge and information in your computer brains. Don't let your mind say to yourself or to another 'you don't know that!?! Boy are you dumb/unsophisticated/illiterate  (pick a negative word) ' Knowledge  has little to do w/ stupidity or superiority. It has to do w/ what you have been exposed to in your life, sometimes by your choices, but often because of choices made by someone else."

I really like that, Jean.  David Foster Wallace gave a great commencement address to some college students that you might find interesting. He talks about how people tend to operate on their default setting, the unthinking self.  You can find it by googling "David Foster Wallace's Kenyon Commencent Speech, 2005."  I liked it so much that I have decided to read some of Wallace's work.  (He was an award winning author and English Professor at Pomona College, CA.  Sadly, he killed himself not long ago at age 46 after suffering from years of depression.)

Marj

[ANNIE]

Babi,
One of my favorite parts of the book starts on pg.221 when Kenya and Tip go to the Museum of Comparative Zoology on Harvard's campus.  Her unexpected interest in fishes surprised Tip but first he had to succumb to her Girl Scout care for his hyerthermia.  She is such a nice surprise for Tip.  I loved the way she arranged a way for them to peruse the lab with Tip riding in his chair and trying to keep the leg's chair going in the same direction and putting the fish jars back where they belonged.  Didn't he promise to take her to Brazil with him when he went to search for more undiscovered fish?  

[JoanP]

We're back from a four day weekend south for 9 year old grandson's birthday party down in NC where the temps were nearly as bad as here in the DC area.  Birthday boy wanted an outdoor carnival party - his new backyard has no trees~  My job was to make the cotton candy for 15 sugar hungry little boys.  The machine only works if it is blazing hot!  You get the picture?

It was difficult to read your posts at the end of each day and to try to post back using only the iPad keyboard, so will try to catch up some today.  I missed you all!

[JoanP]

"I think the Tennessees conversation was delirium, a dream, but then, i'm an agnostic about an afterlife." Jean, I agree; it seems that Tennessee's mother was conflicted about revealing her relationship with the girl, hence this dream.  Was it ever made clear why she hasn't told Kenya about who her real mother was before this?  Can you understand why she hasn't?  Do you think it's important that Kenya know her background before Tennessee dies?  Does Patchett seem to know think it's important?

I'm wondering now about your thoughts about Fr. Sullivan and how those two women were "healed."

[JoanP]

"But what was the long paragraph on pg 240 about the "cold" about?" Jean

Kenya has been cold, really cold and tense since the previous night, crouching with her mother in the snow after the accident...cold in the hospital, cold in the Doyles' third floor bedroom, cold back in her own apartment when she picked up her things.  Now she's freezing in her little jacket as she walks painfully slow with Tip on his crutches.  Can't you just feel her relief when she hits the track and begins to run -

"Anger and sadness and a since of injustice that was bigger than ony one thing that had happened stoked an enormous fire in her chest and that fire kept her heart vibrant and hot and alive..."

Running is her passion - filling a need.  Tip is there watching her, remembering how he used to run.  Why has he stopped?  Teddy was a runner too.  Aside from that, do Tip and Teddy seem to have much in common?
Do you find Patchett explaining more the differences between Teddy and Tip than their similarities?  And Kenya, is she more alike these two than she is different?  Is this intentional on Patchett's part? 

 Annie, the two of them in the Harvard campus museum was quite moving wasn't it?  Especially when Tip is surprised that Kenya is asking him questions that no one else ever has. She's impressed with his knowledge (no one else is) and impressed with the size of the museum's collection of fishes.  As he is.

Back in a bit - it's good to be home.

[bookad]

Marj--how ironic, that you should mention David Foster Wallace--I looked him up online...thinking something is familiar here...then it hit me his book Infinite Jest--a book I just got out of the library named a number of books that were excellent reading in various categories....and the book 'Infinite Jest' was mentioned...I take it is a rather lengthy book that is said to be an amazing read...only one library in our system owns this book and in about 2 weeks I should be able to land my hands on their copy...really looking forward to reading it

Deb

[Steph]

Patchett wants you to discover what you think of what she writes. She does not explain.. She expects you to run along with her.

[JoanP]

Marj- I read that David Foster Wallace was  known for Infinite Jest. In 2005, Time magazine included it in its list of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to the present.
I wondered why I never heard of it..Good for you in locating a copy, Deb. I'm going to check our library today.

"Patchett wants you to discover what you think of what she writes. She does not explain.. She expects you to run along with her."

Love the way you put that, Steph! . I'm "running" right along with her much of the time, but really need to hear what you thought has happened in the hospital room with Fr. Sullivan when he touches Tennessee's leg?   I thought he was going to die then, too, Babi- but what actually happened?  Was Patchett being amiguous here, or were we to believe that he experienced someting akin to a miracle?

[Babi]

 He did, indeed, ANNIE. And I think she will hold him to it. She was against his
decision to go to medical school, as a sort of atonement. I was so relieved when he
returned to his first love, the fishes. Kenya was a constant surprise; so multi-faceted.

 JOANP, I do hope Dad put up a tent for the outdoor party. And a chair by the cotton
candy machine...not too close. I'm amazed you were able to do that. I can get tired
just tromping around a dept. store.

 Actually, I though John Sullivan had died that day, too, but apparently he lived for a while
longer.  My impression from the events of that day was that when he touched Tennessee to
pray for her, he knew she was dying.  The strain caused him to collapse for a short while, but
as soon as he recovered he tried to send Teddy to alert the doctor that Tennesse needed
immediate help.  But Teddy was so absobed in his guilt over his uncle's collapse that he
couldn't understand what he was saying.  He assumed the old mand was confused and just kept insisting that he rest.  By the time John Sullivan made him understand, it was already too late
to save Tennessee.  All of which, of course, contribued to the huge sense of guilt that turned
him away from his old plans and into politics.
   A final observation.. 
  “Politics, just at the moment that Teddy had finally picked it up, had ceased to be his father’s driving interest.  He had Kenya’s spring meets now, her fall meets, her state championships.” Is this a pattern for Bernard Doyle?  When Sullivan disappointed, he turned his attention to the boys.  When they no longer needed his 'steering’ of their careers,  he found an outlet for his supervisory energies in Kenya.   He needs to be involved; he needs to be a director.  That’s not a bad thing, but I wonder how he will cope when no one needs his support and 'help' any more.

[Steph]

I think by that time, that Kenya or the boys or someone else will claim him. His need is to guide.. He will guide forever.

[JoanP]

No Babi - no trees and no tent for shelter.  Though the cotton candy machine was hot, there was a breeze and the looks on the faces of those little kids they watched me fluff up the confection made it all bearable.  I felt like their fairy godmother or something.  Two hours in the sun - no shade, no sunscreen and no sunburn either!  That was a miracle of sorts, wasn't it?

"My impression from the events of that day was that when he touched Tennessee to
pray for her, he knew she was dying."

 
OKay, I understand that Fr. Sullivan was overcome with the surprise and the joy of meeting Tennessee again and really wanted to give her some comfort.  But how did he know she was dying?  I remember reading that he wanted Teddy to find her doctor so that he could "cut out" whatever was inside her.  How did he know that?  I also remember that he realized at that moment that he really had "helped" the two women who claimed he had cured them.  Obviously he doesn't believe he can cure Tennessee - that's why he wanted a doctor to see her.  But what do you think Ann Patchett intended for us to think happened at that moment? 

[JoanP]

Good morning, Steph!  We were posting at the same time -

I was thinking about what Babi wrote yesterday about Doyle's need to direct and wondering how he would cope when no one needs his "help" any more...Ann Patchett has really made these characters come alive, hasn't she?  At first I was seeing them as stereotypes and was willing to accept that, but here we are talking about how they will do in the future, after we have closed the book and there is no longer a novelist writing the story.

I want to know about Sullivan.  Do you think he will find his way?   Remember when he said that he hated coming home, how tired he was of his family?  He swore he'd only come back every ten years or so - and stay in a hotel when he did.  Well, he's still home four years later.  That implies that he's changed too.

Was it you, Marjifay who said a while back that you could not relate to any of these characters? Or was it Jean, who didn't like anyone except Kenya?  I don't think they were very likeable either.  Even Ann Patchett seemed to dislike them as they were.  But do  you still feel this way, or do you see a change in them that makes you reconsider?

[JoanP]

We're coming to the end of our time together - several days left to consider what we read in the epilogue in Chapter 11, four years after the accident that brought Kenya into the Doyle's household - and our over-all impressions of Ann Patchett's book.

In the back of the paperback edition there are several questions for consideration - I've chosen a few of them to add to our questions in the heading at the top of this page.  You may find them interesting.

The first one on the list got my attention, because we were left in the hospital room thinking that Father Sullivan was dying...the poor man, it would have been easier for him if he had.  Why do you think Ann Patchett let him live?  He is the character in the book that I can relate to - on several levels -
Here's the question - it really made me think of his role in the book:

"1. Father Sullivan played a pivotal role in deciding the statue's owner and dividing the family. Did he continue to play a significant role in the book? What would the book have looked like without him? "

What would the book have looked like without him?

  

[Babi]

 JOAN, I think Patchett hoped we would understand exactly what you did from that
passage. I did not find it surprising that John Sullivan could do that, though of
course most of us could not. I have become wholly convinced over my years that we
have minds that are capable of far more than we realize at present. Once we get over
our 'practical' mind-sets as to what is possible and what is not, I predict we will
blossom in a remarkable way.
  Actually, I like all of them. They were real, they were individuals. I didn't find
it hard to accept each of them as they were, and each one of them grew and developed
throughout the events of this story.

[mabel1015j]

Joan, i still don't want to "have a beer" w/ any if those guys. I still like Kenya the best and i liked Tenneesse. I don't think i'm being a female chauvinist in that assessment. I think that's the way Pachett wrote them and why she has the four women "on the dresser". All of the women were very "motherly", moving the families, and therefore the story, forward. The women are insightful, sacriificial, compassionate and curious. Much more interesting then the seemingly one-dimensional men.

I may have missed it, but i'm not sure how different the story would be w/out John Sullivan. I'm not seeing that if that character wasn't in he book it would have made much difference to anyone but Teddy. I'm waiting for all of you opinions on that.

All in all i think the premise of the story had great possibilities, the elements she presents in the first 50 pages had the promise of great drama and conflict and insight..........i was very dsappointed. I was left wanting more depth. STEPH, i like your concept of Patchett's writing, i guess i want more from the writer, more flushing out of the story. Having us "run along w/ her" works o.k. when i'm reading w/ a book group where i can hear others analysis of the story. I still thought it left the story a little thin. I'd like to read the sequel. 

[ANNIE]

Wow, Babi,
I agree with you completely.  The characters all had their part to play in the lives of their families and our author did a great job keeping them busy and much in our minds as she presented a dysfunctional family that I can certainly connect with. As aren't most families dysfunctional in some way or other??
As to what would the book look or read like without the Irish Uncle Sullivan?
Don't we all have relatives who play a bigger part in the life of a family than others?  Our author didn't dwell on the aunts who wanted the statue but chose to make us aware of Father Sullivan.  He was the peacemaker and possible miracle worker in the Doyle and Moser families.  
I read an article somewhere that claims when the human race finally realizes how little of our brain is developed, they will realize that the body can heal itself if we just develop our brain further.  Quite a premise.  Hmmm, maybe?

[Steph]

Patchett. I actually liked these characters much more than I did the ones in Bel Canto..Which is my least favorite books of hers. I guess the idea with her is that you need to fill them out yourselves. Ihave found myself in every single book of hers, fleshing out the character mentally.Adding what I feel about them.. To me,, the mark of a good author since that means to me, I believe in them.

[JoanP]

Babi says each of them "grew and developed throughout the events of the story."
Maybe if we consider the story in terms of the 24 hour period in which the story takes place, we get more of an idea of just how much happened. Rather than find  the plot "thin" we may have to consider whether it is believable that so much happened during this short period.  Did this child, no matter how exceptional, beautiful and swift, really have the power to bring about so much change in all of the adults with whom she came into contact?

Father Sullivan's role in the story - how important was he? How different would the story have been without him?  Annie describes him as "the peacemaker" - but when you think back to the dispute over Bernadette's family heirloom, there was no longer peace in the extended family. Fr. Sullivan did not insert himself in the argument - he was called upon to make the decision, after which the aunts are no longer heard from.  They were not present in the lives of their sister's boys as they grew up in a home without a mother or a woman's presence, though the statue looked over them...  

Do you remember whose idea it was for the feeble priest to brave the snowstorm to come to the hospital?  It was Teddy's, wasn't it?  He wants Fr. Sullivan to heal the woman he now knows is his mother.  (Would Teddy have done this, had he not known she was his mother?  I guess that's another story - one that we would have to write ourselves.)

9. Of the many characters in Run, which did you feel most connected to on an emotional level? How do you explain that connection?

I'm going to choose Father Sullivan...because he doesn't realize his power, his power to heal, his power to bring people together - realizing too late that he might have done more good while he lived.  Isn't that something we all fear - that we aren't doing enough with our lives while we are still able?

[ANNIE]

My connection is Kendra when she tells what she did to take piano lessons.  My story is similar to hers.  When I wanted to take lessons and we had no piano at the time, my teacher, Sr Emily Marie, gave me to permission to practice on the piano in the community room in the school basement. This went on for a few months, when my parents found a used piano that they could afford.  It served me, my brother and my younger sister. 

[Babi]

 I like your idea of considering the impact of a 24-hour period, JOAN. If it had been
simply a matter of meeting Kenya for the first time, I doubt she would have made that much of an imprint. But it must have shaken them all up a great deal to discover the boys birth mother had been so close all those years, and that this child was a sister who had a very different life. Yes, I think all of them would find those 24-hour events made a definite change in their lives.
  You ask how important was Father Sullivan's role. Yet he is the character you feel
most connected with. How much would be missing from the book if he was not there? 
  Between him, Teddy and Kenya herself, I don't know if I could choose my favorite.
As to 'connected', Father Sullivan and Teddy are so much alike in character that I
feel I can choose them both.

[JoanP]

Ann Patchett has a gift - she can  find something in her characters,  the human denominator that we can recognize, relate to, and respond to.  Annie, you've chosen Kenya as the one you related.  I've got a few Kenya questions -  

From the git go - that very first night,  the boys kept finding similarities in their "sister" – when the fact was…she wasn't related at all. Even Doyle was noticing the physical similarities….were they seeing it because of suggestion? Would they have noted these similarities if she hadn't told them Tennessee was Teddy and Tip's mother?

Did you squirm at the idea that Kenya will never know that Tennessee was not her mother or did this lack of information fit in with Ann Patchett's purpose?  What is she really saying about nature and nurture here?

Babi - interesting that you see Teddy and Father Sullivan alike.  Do you see differences between the two?  What would Father Sullivan have said to you if you told him that?

[Steph]

I still puzzle over why they thought that Kenya and the boys were so alike. I think it was simply discovering that they thought she was their sister. Doesnt matter in the end, since she is in emotional life..

[mabel1015j]

I think we naturally look for similarities to relatives. Haven't we all said of a grandchild "oh, you are definitely your mothers/fathers son/dgt?" Or, "s/he's got those __(family name) gene's!" i'm sure we could find "similarities" if we were looking for them.

Joan asks -Maybe if we consider the story in terms of the 24 hour period in which the story takes place, we get more of an idea of just how much happened. Rather than find  the plot "thin" we may have to consider whether it is believable that so much happened during this short period.  Did this child, no matter how exceptional, beautiful and swift, really have the power to bring about so much change in all of the adults with whom she came into contact?


I guess my question to Patchett would be "why did you place the story in a 24 hr period?" joan is right, that may be my problem w/ the story, thinking it too "thin".
Jean

[ANNIE]

When Sullivan went to see Tennessee after her surgery, he had no problem seeing his brothers' facial features in her face.  So where do we find any comparable thoughts coming from those who are looking at Kenya?  Did Doyle, who took Kenya to pick up some clothes for wearing at his home, compare Kenya to Tennessee?  No where can I find such a comparison.  Even when Tip takes her to the museum and she helps to put away the fish jars, does he compare her facial features to his own or Teddy's?  We know she's tall, leggy and runs like the wind.  Oh, and she had  a habit of pulling on her braids when she's rattled and that's attributable to the ghost of the real Tennessee  Moser.
Hmmm, even when she runs at the Harvard track, we don't get a picture of her.
So all that she has for us comparing to Tip and Teddy, is her slimness and her height.  Do you suppose Kenya had the same father that the boys had? That would be Ebee and he sounds like he would have skedaddled as soon as he saw that baby.
When Tennessee Alice Moser appears to and talks to  the boys' mother, they talk about how much Kenya looks and acts like this ghost, Tennessee. But  they don't mention the girl's height which she didn't get from her mother who was very short compared to her friend, Tenessee.?

[JoanP]

I remember reading an  Interview in which Ann Patchett was asked that very question, Jean.  I made a note of her reply just in case it came up in our discussion.


Q: Why did you decide to compress the action of this novel into twenty-four hours, an exceedingly short period of time by novel standards?
A: For all of the characters in the book this car accident set in motion a series of life-changing events. They were all so overwhelmed by what was happening that I never found a point at which I could take a break from the action and say, "Three days later . . . " Because Sullivan has jet lag and Tennessee is in the hospital, their sense of time is shaken up. It meant that at least one of the characters was awake through the entire 24 hour period. By switching the point of view from person to person I could keep the story going around the clock.

This is fiction and it is a good story - but do you think something like this could happen in real life?  Could one action trigger so many changes and realizations?  All I can think is that the car accident started something during  the 24 hour period that followed - when it came out that Tennessee is the boys' mother - every thing else happened gradually in the years that followed.  One shocking incident can set later events in motion...

[JoanP]

Oh my goodness, Annie, it never occurred to me that the father of those two boys was also Kenya's father!  Did anyone else consider this?

It sounds as if you are saying that you see no real physical resemblance, but that Kenya shares the same passions {running} and interests {music, fish} as the boys.  Does this mean that you are coming down on the side of "nature" as opposed to "nurture"?  Does anyone think that Tennessee was nurturing, was teaching Kenya to love the same things she knew the boys loved?

What do you think Ann Patchett was telling us here?

[marcie]

I think that Tennessee was trying to learn some of the same things as the boys (eg, the fish book). Perhaps some of that rubbed off onto Kenya.

I can't find my copy of the book right now (I have to find that library book!!) but I was wondering if anyone else felt a sense of dread near the end of the book when Kenya was running in the parking lot and a car pulled out or there was some movement with a car (wish I could find the book!). It made me think that Kenya was going to be hit by the car. I was wondering if the author included that bit of tension on purpose. Did anyone else read it that way?

[Steph]

Having been involved in a horrible auto accident, I can attest that a lot of people can b e affected in the blink of an eye and it will continue forever.

[Babi]

 JOANP, I think Father Sullivan would have been delighted. Teddy was his great favorite,
and I'm sure it is because both of them cared for other people. They were kindred souls,
regardless of the differences in dna. The one time Teddy failed to heed what John
Sullvian said was entirely due to his fear for his Uncle and his guilt over having
exposed him to danger. He could think of nothing else.
  The business about 'Tennessee' not being Kenya's mother is the one part of this
story that, to me, does not fit at all. Everyone noticed the physical resemblance. As
I said before, what earthly purpose did this digression serve? I would like to hear
Patchett's explanation on that.
  It appears we all have a question or two we'd like to have Patchett explain. 

[mabel1015j]

Thank you Joan for facilitating the discussion. You kept us moving at a nice speed. Altho i found some fault w/ the story, i'm glad i read it.

Jean

[Steph]

I really believe that Patchett led us down the garden path with resemblences and then finding that Kenya is not in fact related to the boys at all.