Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online

[BooksAdmin]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE
PLEASE POST BELOW IF YOU PLAN TO JOIN US.  

As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together.  Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post

Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video;  
Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy;

Discussion Leaders:  Ella and Harold

[HaroldArnold]

All of you are invited to join us in the discussion of this great new book about the continuing interests, activities, and post presidential lives of the small fraternal groups of men (and in the future women) who have served as  President of the United States.  The story at times might be funny or serious, but it is always interesting.  Also the Book records details of the many perks and privilges, and even occasionally serious duty assignments attaching to this membership.

For this discussion to become a reality, we will need at least 5 or 6 people who will commit to reading and actively participate in the discussion.  Please join Ella and I by posting your intention here.

[Ella Gibbons]

As HAROLD says it is a very interesting book.   President Clinton said only a few know what life in the White House was truly like, only ex-presidents.  This book, so well researched, is their story; their passions, prejudices, relationships with each other.  Absolutely fascinating!

"It makes little difference how much they may have fought on the way to the White House; once, they've been in the job, they are bound together by experience, by duty, by ambition, and by scar tissue." (pg.2)

"Nixon, the man who eternally longed to belong, actually created a private clubhouse, a brownstone across the street from the White House, purchased discreetly by the givernment in 1969 for the use of former presidents.  It is still in operation. "(pg.6)

Four of the former presidents are in this YouTube picture, good sound, details of which are in the book:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkzjodKAQhA

JOIN US IN SEPTEMBER!

POST A MESSAGE NOW!

[JoanP]

Just got put on hold at library - 62.  I think there are 6 copies.  I should have it in time.

[kidsal]

 will order the book

[Ella Gibbons]

HELLO JOANP AND KIDSAL.  Happy to have you both in this discussion.  It promises to be interesting; the book gives us new insight into these men.  The first chapters deal with PRESIDENTS TRUMAN AND EISENHOWER. 

We are not going to mention AGE, but can either of you remember those two when they were in office?  If not, I'm sure you have read something about them. 

Do you think President Truman will always be remembered for being the one who made the decision to drop the atom bombs on Japan?  Do young people today know that? 

He didnt have to campaign for that job, but what a terrible decision to have to make.  It's not easy being a president, is it?

[CallieOK]

A neighbor has loaned me the book and isn't in a hurry to get it back. 

Marking my spot.    X

[pedln]

Callie, lucky you.  The title came up in my library's online catalog, but when I tried to put on a hold, I was told holds were not available.  Have sent library a note asking about the status.

Yesterday both Gibbs and Duffy were on Morning Joe, along with historians Doris Kearns Goodwin and Jon Meachem, talking about presidents past and present, those who emerged unbroken and those who were broken by the events of history.  Even if I can't get hold of the book, I want to follow the discussion along.

[mabel1015j]

That sounds like fun. I am sloowwly reading The Clinton Tapes by Taylor Branch - it's 600 pgs! - and is very interesting. You may want to take a look at that if you have some time thru the summer. I'm scanning some of the passsages about events, especially Bosnia, etc, but i find the discussions about the decision-making processes very interesting and the behind-the-scenes White House is insightful.

I have frequently said there is no training to take that job, it's all on-the-job-training and so much more complicated than we can imagine. That's why i am reluctant to be too critical of sitting presidents. I do disagree sometimes with idealogy, of course, but i just feel i'm probably missing a hundreds of pieces of information that they have at hand, to be able to criticize individual decisions.

Oh, yes! Definitely remember Truman and Eisenhower!

[CallieOK]

Pedlin, I suspect I will mostly "follow" and go back to the book to read details on comments.  I expect to have  'Aha!" moments - since I always seem to miss points that others see.

[maryz]

I've read the book, and will follow along - maybe even comment from time to time. 

[PatH]

I have to see the book before committing, but if I like it, I'm in.  My library system has 17 copies; I put my name down just for fun, and I'm #95 in the queue.  I'll follow that just for laughs, and take my name off before I'm close to the top.  I wouldn't do it with a book I can only keep 3 weeks,  my memory isn't good enough.  I need to have the book in my hands for the whole discussion, so I'll buy it or borrow from a friend.

[PatH]

I do remember Truman.  In spite of having lived in the DC area my whole life, the only inaugural parade I saw live was Truman's.  My father worked at the Patent Office, and he took JoanK and me to the 8th floor of the building, where we looked down on it in comfort.

[Ella Gibbons]

CALLIE, you mustn't just follow - post your thoughts, we want opinions, good, bad, liberal, conservative, whatever comes to mind.  And.......

PEDLIN, buy the book, then give it to someone for Christmas telling them how good it was, or is that a bit  miserly?  I would love a present like that - from someone who likes history or politics and has told me it's a good book.  Spread it around the family, you'll find they like the book.

I'm so sorry I missed the authors on Morning Joe, I never watch the program, I never have TV on except in the evenings but I have no idea what I do, time just goes.  I'm slow I think.

And I hope PATH will either buy or borrow the book. Your library didn't buy enough copies, who was it said their library had 269 copies?  Was it me, I'll have to check. 

JEAN, I hope you get the book also.  I think we all agree how burdensome the job of being presidenet of our country is and I often wonder why they work so hard to get in that Oval Office.  In the book you'll read many remarks from the various presidents how they felt in their early days.  Fascinating reading.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS!  

[Ella Gibbons]

P.S. - My library has 58 copies with 65 requests waiting.

[maryz]

Ella, the authors have been interviewed on BookTV.  Click here to get to a page where you can click to watch the interview online.

[CallieOK]

Ella: from your post:  CALLIE, you mustn't just follow - post your thoughts, we want opinions, good, bad, liberal, conservative, whatever comes to mind.  And.......
 I never have TV on except in the evenings but I have no idea what I do, time just goes.  I'm slow I think.

Oh, I'll post if I have any opinions or comments.    However, I don't like to take up posting space with "I agree" or some such remark.   I'm looking forward to reading the book straight through and then meandering along with the discussion. 

I am the same as you re: TV on only in the evenings - and, sometimes, not even then. 
We are not slow; we do things leisurely.   

[HaroldArnold]

While I think we should have at least 5 who have the book during the discussion period, monitors are of course are welcome if it makes.  I bought the digital book from B&N for the nook.  Why I don't know, but I could not find a digital copy at the Apple store.  So I will bring the old Nook out of retirement for this occasion.

[JoanK]

I read the sample on my kindle, and found it very interesting. So I'll at least start the discussion. But I won't be able to spend major time on it.

[threadheadnet]

I would like to participate. Thank you.

[Ella Gibbons]

WELCOME THREAD, happy to have you on board!

And,JOANK, hope you have time to spend a few hours with us.

 We will all have a lot to talk about as we reminisce about our presidents.  Not only our own memories, but the book gives us details of the relationships between these ambitious men, particularly as they retire.  

Don't you think it would be difficult to go back to being a private citizen after the power of the Oval Office?  Of course, they still have many trappings, benefits galore and the money they can glean from speeches, sitting on boards, etc.  

Still, it's not the same........

[JoanK]

It must be frustrating sitting on the sidelines watching others make the decisions you used to make. Especially if you see them going through the same learning mistakes that you made.

[Ella Gibbons]

If you were smart (and many were) you would listen to all the past presidents, all the advice they could give you and then, of course, do it your way.  And pleasing your party, congress, the people with the media after you constantly, dogging you, whew!

The book gives us many examples of the "club" attempting to preserve the OFFICE, if not always agreeing with the current president and his policies.

[threadheadnet]

In recent TV interviews, Michael Duffy has shared vignettes from the book:
-Ronald Reagan showing Bill Clinton how to salute
-Eisenhower on tape telling John Kennedy not to worry about the Soviet Union's bomb threats
So touching, in these bitter times, that leaders from opposite parties actually trued to help each other. But a reminder of how lonely the job is (Ike's opinion of Krushchev's intentions was probably off the mark and contrasted with the military's chant to bomb pre-emptively).

I know it wasn't all sweetness and light but I'm really looking forward to reading this book, for the history but also for the balm.

[PatH]

I finally got ahold of the book, and it looks very interesting--well written, and a subject I care about, so I'm in.  I now own the book, so I'm well equipped.

I had put my name down to reserve it at the library, and in 10 days have advanced from #95 to #85.  At that rate, I'd get it about the time the discussion is over.  I'll leave my name on for a while, just for fun, but remove it well before my turn.

[bellamarie]

This sounds like a really interesting book.  I am a political junkie so I would love to read this book along with all of you.  I will purchase it on my nook and anticipate September.  Only not too anxious because I don't want my summer to fly by too quickly.

Ciao for now~

[PatH]

Hi, Bellamarie.  It's good to see you again; it's been a while since we were in the same discussion.

[Ella Gibbons]

Thanks for the post, THREAD, I'm sorry I have misssed hearing either author on TV.  Were they on BookTV?  I had it on a bit over the weekend, but nothing interesting - I even get notices from BookTV on my email and don't pay proper attention to it, time just goes past and fast!!  But you are right - in bitter times we need to read that rivals can be friends. 

I think that only history can prove it though; if perchance Obama and Romney were to meet the handshakes would be friendly but underneath that public persona what gives?  Only historians can examine the truth.

And that's what we will be reading and absorbing.

Hey, PAT AND BELLAMARIE, happy to have you both on board.  It's a good time to review old rivalries and friendships in politics.

[maryz]

Ella, the authors were on BookTV last month sometime.  You can go to the BookTV web site, search for the name, and watch it on your computer.   I posted a link a while back.

[Aberlaine]

I just bought the book from Amazon.  Count me in!

Nancy

[bellamarie]

Thank you Pat H. yes, its been  awhile for me.  I took on a couple of special needs children in my day care this past year so just getting through the day was a real challenge for me.  I'm looking forward to a bit less hectic year come Sept. so I really would love to get back to the book discussions.  I always enjoy sharing with all of  you. 

Marz, thank you for the heads up on the web site.  I like learning something about the authors if possible.

Ciao for now~

[JoanK]

Hey! Aberlaine and Bellamarie both with us. Hoorah!

[JoanP]

Welcome, everyone!  Ella asked me to add the two very interesting links you'll find in the heading today.  One of them is the BookTV production with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy that maryz told us about a few days ago.  It's really fascinating.  I'm listening to it as I go about my postings here this morning.  Thanks for bringing these links to our attention,  Ella and maryz!

[Ella Gibbons]

Thank you, JOANP!

And a hearty welcome to NANCY!

What a great group we have and isn't this an appropriate year to be discussing politics; although this is history -  still relevant.  Politics does not change too much over the years; the nation does, of course, and the decisions that are made by our presidents, but politics, campaigns, rivalries, that is what the book is about.

Does it seem to anyone other than myself that the president has gained too much power over the years? 

Maybe Harold can correct me, but I think Jefferson feared this might happen; whereas John Adams believed in presidential power.  It was he that wanted to call the presidenet - His Excellency.

HAROLD, am I correct?

[JoanK]

Harold will know better than I, but I believe you are. Although it was John Adams I believe who came up with the idea if "balance of Powers" between Executive, Legislative, and Judiciary, when he became President, he was not so balanced (for example, The Alien And Sedition Act, which allowed imprisonment of anyone critisizing the government. It was repealed under Jefferson).

In the whiole early period of our government, there was a great fear that in revolting we would have merely subtituted a new tyrant for the old. But in spite of those fears, and not withstanding the prefgerances of whoever was president, as the country baecame bigger, more complex, and its pieces mor interdependent, the Executive has, of necessity become stronger and stronger. 

[HaroldArnold]

I just completed a review of all the above post and am happy to report that we now have at least five participants who will have a copy of the book during the September discussion.  These five plus Ella and myself should have the material available to make the discussion interesting.  Others who may not have the book during the discussion will be welcome to participate to the extent that they desire.

I have a digital copy of the book on my 1st generation nook and am in the process of reading it and highlighting and noteing particular discussion threads for posting.  I was surprized at the amount of detail included in the book.  It has been a long time since one of our projects ran to over 600 pages in the print edition.  There will be many interesting points to talk about.  

[HaroldArnold]

Regarding Ella's question in her message#33 concerning the views of Jefferson in contast with those of John Adams and  George Washington (the federalists) on the degree of popular democracy guaranteed in the new nation.  I will offer the following off the cuff comments.

True the Jefferson view (there were other prominant supporters) certainly appears more favorable to what today might be considered a popular democracy.      Many of these views were incorporated in the original written Constitution.  This document was circulated for approval by the 13 State Governments.  During the approval debates opposition developed on the fear that the words allowed loopholes for Federal abuse of power.  To insure approval of the constitution the first 10 amendments were written to specifically deney the federal government the power to pass laws limiting certain basic civil rights (speach, religion,press etc).  It also specifically stated that any powers not specifically granted to the federal government were reserved for the States and the people.  This is the package that was approved by vote of the people resulting in the first Congress and the Washington administration launching the United States in March 1789.

The Uniited States began its history aparently with limited enumerated Federal powers.  Since the first 10 amendments did not apply to the states they began their function with soverign powers limited only by the specific powers granted to the Federal Government.  Some of the enumerated federal powers proved significant; for examble the federal power to regulate interstate commerce and of course Foreign relations. Also the Supreme Court early claimed the power to declare a Federal Law passed by congress and the President unconstitutional and vioid.   Some of the 19th/early 20th century amendments also increased federal power (particularly the Civil War amendments). Finally in the 1960's a series of Supreme court decisions made the civil rights limitations of the first 10 amendments applicable to the States making possiible the United States governance as it now functions today.










ella's question

[JoanK]

Adams and Jefferson are interesting in another context as well. Looking at a bit of the Presidents Club made clear to me something I'd long wondered about.

Adams and Jefferson were bitter political enemies. They fought the first contested presidential election, and it was bitterly contested, complete with dirty tricks, bitterness afterwards, the whole nine yards. And yet, years later, in their retirement, they started a correspondance that continued for years and made them fast friends. That correspondance is still read today.

This always seemed paradoxical to me: now seeing the other unlikely alliances, it seems natural.

[HaroldArnold]

On July 4, 1826 John J.Audubon was six weeks at sea on the Dellos, a sailing ship taking him to Liverpool where he intended to publish his Birds of North America.  That afternoon, slightly drunk on porter (a strong beer) he awoke from a dream in which some great undiagnosed calamity had befallen his adopted country, the United States.  Weeks later in Liverpool he read that  such an event had occurred; John Adams and Thomas Jefferson had both died that day, in their respective Massachusetts and Virginia homes.  

[mabel1015j]

Jefferson was concerned about the power of the federal govt. ironically, when he became president he took at least two actions that were probably not constitutional at the time - doubling the size of the country by agreeing to the La Purchase before it was approved by Congress and establishing an institution to train military officers, West Point, as a federal entity.

It's always easier to state opinions when they are a candidate. The job gets much tougher once they are on the job. Almost every president has done things he said he wouldn't and was not able to do things he said he would. The powers of the executive branch have increased in every war time, so Lincoln, Wilson and FDR have expanded excutive powers the most.

Ella, at this point in our history we see the legislative and judicial branches very much balancing the powers of the executive branch. The legislative branch has stymied the president's legislation and the court has given financial power to his opposition. The reasons many presidents have worked hard at foreign relations is because that's pretty much his ballywick, unless the Congress has to approve a treaty. Wilson discovered his opposition can clobber him with that "right to consent."

Jean