Presidents Club, The by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy~September Book Club Online

[mabel1015j]

The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

SEPTEMBER BOOK CLUB ONLINE
PLEASE POST BELOW IF YOU PLAN TO JOIN US.  

As we head into another overheated and polarizing presidential campaign, at least it's a comfort knowing that former presidents have learned to mostly put aside partisan politics and work together.  Thanks to the brilliant investigative work of Time magazine's Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy, The Presidents Club uncovers a powerful secret fraternity, in which ex-leaders stay in the game by counseling inexperienced successors. - USA Today

Realizing that membership in the Presidents Club bestows a singular perspective can help explain certain minor mysteries of our political life. How, for example, could Clinton ever forgive George H.W. Bush, who in the 1992 campaign all but charged him with being a traitor, if not a Soviet stooge, for visiting Russia as a college student and protesting the Vietnam War “from foreign soil”? Why has Obama, whose presidential quest embodied a repudiation of everything George W. Bush stood for, heard scarcely a grumble about his policies from his once-belligerent predecessor? The answer lies in what Kennedy said to Arthur Schlesinger when asked to rank the presidents: “Only the president himself can know what his real pressures and his real alternatives are.” It’s a sentiment that virtually every president voices at one point or another in this book. - Washington Post

DISCUSSION SCHEDULE:

Chapters 1-9           9/1 through 9/8
Chapters 10-14       9/9 through 9/15
Chapters 15-19       9/16 through 9/22
Chapters 20-26       9/23 through 9/30

 

Some Topics for Consideration

CHAPTERS 1 THROUGH 9 1.   You got to have ego, lots and lots of ego.  - “I don’t know anybody who can do it (the job of being president) any better than I can…..and the pay is pretty good” - JFK    Ego, money, a war hero, he had it all and yet...........................?? 2.    On a personal vote, did you vote for Kennedy?  What were your thoughts about that election? 3.   “Presidents inherit the foreign policy of their predecessors; they inherit their wars and their treaties ,,,,,and their covert operations.” - What examples can we think of? 4.    What were President Kennedy’s mistakes in his first year in office and how could he have avoided them? 5.    Do you think most presidents believe that foreign affairs is the most important issue to handle?   (see pg.160) 6.    Would you bring in your own crew or put experienced men as cabinet members or in powerful positions?  How loyal should one be to friends/financial supporters? 7.    What crises prompted Kennedy’s calls to the club? 8.    Lyndon Johnson had several strokes against him when he was catapulted into the presidency - did he ever conquer them? 9.    What has history taught us about LBJ?  His successes, failures in office. 10.   Johnson’s torment is understandable - could it have been avoided? Related Links: Secrets of the Presidents Club - Video;   Book TV with Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy; Discussion Leaders:  Ella and Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One note about why the President's Club starts with Hoover and Truman, in the 20th century there was not often that there was a healthy,living ex-president and almost never more than one ( Taft and TR are the only two that come to mind, oh no,Coolidge and Hoover could have advised FDR for a while - HAHA) McKinley died in office, Wilson was ill after leaving office and died in '24. Harding died in office in '23 and FDR died in office. Kennedy inherited the Bay of Pigs invasion. Johnson and Nixon inherited Viet Vam. We seem to be always planning, in the middle of, or just ending a military expedition. Jean

[bellamarie]

Truman stated that he had invented the White House office so efficiently that no future president could make a mistake.  What did he mean?

I think he was referring to the new executive order that was voted in that would give the president the power to over ride or by pass congress if need be.  I personally think it was an arrogant statement and not only does passing all the orders that followed NOT guarantee a mistake will not be made by presidents, but in fact we have seen that there are presidents to follow him that are questioned as to whether they have made mistakes.  NO man is infallible regardless of how perfect a design seems to be made.

Every president inherits the good with the bad when he takes the oath of office.  Some may be up to the challenge while others are not.  Having the president's club and being able to call upon their predecessors has to be an enormous help and support if the ex presidents are willing to be generous, and can set aside their partisan party views and loyalties.

So much more to say, but have to run.  Going to see the movie Hope Springs with one of my favorite actresses Meryle Streep.  Be back later. 

Ciao for now~

[JoanK]

Haven't quite finished the reading, but so far i'm fascinated. No idea that Hoover had contributed so much. Reminds me that every person (president or not) has their strengths and weaknesses. Hoover may not have known what to do about the sudden depression, but he knew how to handle food shortages, and was there when that was needed.

[PatH]

It's fun watching Truman and Hoover coming to work together--Hoover very touchy, both of them suspicious, and with many different views.  But they made it work, and ended up with respect and affection for each other.

[HaroldArnold]

8.     IF PRESIDENT TRUMAN WAS THE FIRST MEMBER OF THE “CLUB WHAT PRECEDENTS DID HE ESTABLISH?

It would seem to me that Technically Hoover has to be counted as the first member of the Club.  He was the only Ex President still living through the entire length of the Truman Presidency.  For Me Truman was very much the founding father of the Club. Knowingly or unknowingly it was He, who first conceived the Club when he as the sitting President ask Ex President Hoover to study and develop a plan to feed starving post war Europe.  He chose Hoover for this task because of Hoover’s experience in the same task after WWI.  Truman reinforced his commitment to the development of the Club when later in his term he gave Hoover another assignment, the preparation of a comprehensive study developing a new modern plan for the operation of the Federal Government.  It was interesting to read in our book how President Truman tried to get Eisenhower to run for the Presidency in 1952 as a Democrat.   At the same time Hoover was supporting Eisenhower as a Republican.  In the end Ike choose to run as a Republican with Truman bitterly disappointed.  

Truman became the 2nd member of the Club when his term ended with the inauguration of Eisenhower in January 1953.  This made Truman the second member.  The Club seems to have continued its informal, unofficial existence throughout the Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson administrations to the Nixon’ s administration and beyond.  Along the way it has obtained a more legally defined existence with Congressional legislation involving ex Presidential pensions and other perks pertinent to the Club. As a result The accumulated experience of all living ex Presidents are now available to the current president should he or she choose to ask for it.  I find this process an interesting revelation of our governmental evolutionary process.  

[PatH]

Truman stated that he had invented the White House office so efficiently that no future president could make a mistake.  What did he mean?

I don't think Truman meant just one think.  He meant the massive number of improvements , reforms, and changes resulting from the Hoover Commission.  These not only saved money, they made the Executive Branch more efficient and effective, so it was easier to do what one intended.  It's a silly remark, though; if someone is determined to make mistakes they'll find a way no matter what.

[HaroldArnold]

3.    Truman stated that he had invented the White House office so efficiently that no future president could make a mistake.  What did he mean?

Ella I too, like bellamarie above, am confused by this point.  Where was this statement in the book?  If Truman actually stated this he was certainly wrong?  Under our Constitution both the President and Congress are independent branches of the Government.  Hence Presidents can send troops to Viet Nam and a shooting war might result.  In that case there was a form of authorization in the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. During the past half century there have certainly been at least a half dozen incidents where a Presidents has on his own ordered Air strikes or other military intervention for one purpose of another (Clinton Bombing Yugoslavia 1996, Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan to name a couple).   Nixon’s problem was not what he did in Viet Nam.  He was in fact trying to conclude our involvement there.  His problem was his violation of rather common U.S. laws that all of us, Presidents included, are expected to respect.  

[PatH]

It's on page 51, a little over half way down.  He said it on his last night in office.

[PatH]

Ooops, you probably don't have page numbers in your ebook.  It's at the end of the second paragraph under "Rebirth of a President", the next to last heading of chapter 2.

[pedln]

3.    Truman stated that he had invented the White House office so efficiently that no future president could make a mistake.  What did he mean?

I agree with PatH, that Truman refers to the reorganizations that came out of the Hoover Commission.  Was this a shrinking of government, a consolidation of sorts.  Just the agencies established during WWII must have added to the size of government.  Perhaps Truman felt that these were now blueprints for his successors to follow.

Am learning so much here.  I thought it interesting (p44) to learn that the government owned a quarter of the continental US, including a distillery in the Virgin Islands. And since my FIL had been associated with the Virgin Islands Corp, I googled and found Truman's statement about his signing the act that incorporated VICORP in 1949.  One teeny bit of govt. that has to be dealt with.

[JoanK]

"I thought it interesting (p44) to learn that the government owned a quarter of the continental US."

I found that interesting too. I wonder if it's still true.

To give truman the benifit of the doubt, perhaps by "can't make a mistake" he meant can't do something by mistake, due to some snafu in the system.

Or maybe he meant he can't do anything without being thoroughly informed by his subordinates, and he was being sarcastic: like "yeah, then he'll always know exactly what to do."

[bellamarie]

Regardless of what or how Truman meant it in making the statement, there never will be a way to guarantee any process to prevent a president from making a mistake.  Even the Supreme court justices get it wrong sometimes.  

I was very impressed with how Truman utilized Hoover's knowledge in feeding the people.  Interesting how Hoover seems to have played a large part in Truman's presidency even though he was bitterly hated.  Then years later Truman becomes bitterly hated.  When the people turn on a president its OVER, they know their time has come and gone.  Jimmy Carter and Bush come to mind, in the most recent years.  Truman sounded like he could not wait to leave the office and was offering it to Ike without even knowing his party allegiance.  

“Presidents inherit the foreign policy of their predecessors; they inherit their wars and their treaties ,,,,,and their covert operations.” - What examples can we think of?

The Navy Seals capturing Bin Laden is the most recent one.  Bush's administration had designed and laid out the plans for the capture, and Obama gave the go ahead. 

Haven't finished my reading, just up to Ike deciding to run, so catch y'all tomorrow.  

Ciao for now~

[threadheadnet]

from http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html
page last modified Feb 2011

"The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Federally-owned and managed public lands include National Parks, National Forests, and National Wildlife Refuges."

[PatH]

from http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html
page last modified Feb 2011

"The Federal Government owns nearly 650 million acres of land - almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. Federally-owned and managed public lands include National Parks, National Forests, and National Wildlife Refuges."

That's interesting--I wouldn't have thought it to be so high.

[threadheadnet]

I understand that the authors alternated writing chapters but shared research duties/material. They did a good job writing with one voice. Loving all the anecdotes. The one I can't get out of my mind is Truman ordering Ike's son be given leave from his military unit to attend his father's inauguration and Eisenhower's initial negative response. Methinks we want our presidents to shoulder all that responsibility, to operate autonomously, yet the strongest of them know when/how to accept a helping hand.

[HaroldArnold]

Regarding Truman's order bringing Eisenhower's Son home on leave from his front line post in Korea to attend Eisenhower's swearing in as President I remember the incident and a most unfavorable reaction of some local friends who  also had close family members in Korea at the time.  The son  had his own successful Army career ending not so spectacular as the father but he made it up to Brigadier General rank at retirement.  

Regarding Federal ownership of Federal Land it is quite true that major portions several Western states are federal owned.  Under the Constitution all land outside the jurisdiction of the original 13 states was federally manage.  Most of the mid-west was distributed to settlers under the federal land policy.  Much of the western mountain and desert states judged too unsuitable for agriculture is still in federal hands.

In Texas under the Annexation Agreement  bringing the Republic of Texas into the Union it was agreed that the new State of Texas would retain ownership of its Public Land.  The new State of Texas use this land to attract new settlers much as the Federal Government settled other Western States.  Much of the Texas desert regions unsuitable for agriculture is still in State hands and the State retains some mineral rights over other lands now in private hands.  These mineral interests have been a major contributor to the favorable economic outlook for the State today.

[pedln]

And Truman felt that way at one time, Harold, for wasn't it Truman who said "no" to Ike's request to bring Mamie to be with him in post-war Europe.  That would not be fair to the other service personnel who did not have their familiesl with them.  

MacArthur, however, sent for his wife without asking.  Now I'm trying to remember -- which president fired MacArthur -- "old soldiers never die, they just fade away."

[mabel1015j]

Question #1 - generally wartime heroes do not get into ELECTED politics. Just because a handful became presidents gives us more of the sense that most men of their generations were in the military. Many more of these heroes were in appointed political jobs. We see both types after the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and both World Wars when so many of the general population of men were involved.

Question #2 - about the derogatory terms used on Truman reminds us that all presidents, and sometimes First Ladies, have been viciously attacked. Our selective memory, or sometimes lack of historical knowledge, leads us to think that "this campaign", whenever it is, is the worst ever. Harry Truman appealed to the voters on his famous train journey throughout the country, talking about "the do-nothing Congress" that endeared him to the voters.

I think we should mention that Truman is now often mentioned by historians as one of the top five best presidents. If you read even short bios about him, his list of accomplishments/decisions made - even w/ a stubborn, oppositional Congress - is amazing.
Let me see if i can find such a list online.

Truman fired MacArthur for taking the fight in Korea into N. Korea, potentially involving the Chinese even more, when he had been told by Truman to not cross the S Korea border.

Jean

[mabel1015j]

This is a good summary of Truman's major decisions.......

http://www.answers.com/topic/what-are-the-key-accomplishments-of-harry-s-truman-s-presidency

[HaroldArnold]

Pedin and all.  My I-Pad digital edition of the book does purport to preserve the print edition page numbers.  The way I have my font size set there are generally 3,  I pad pages to complete each print edition page.  Even so I did not find the material sought on my page 51 that did concern Truman's last night as President

That is an interesting bit of information threadheadnet gave us in message #94 about how each of our authors drafted alternate chapters in the writing of the Book.   I suspect this would be a more productive procedure that the two sitting around in the same room writing together.  Of course it would require an extended rewrite session with the two together .  I think in this case it worked out well.  In my reading, I certainly never noticed  any evidence of conflict between the two authors

[mabel1015j]

I had actually tagged that paragraph when i read it for another reason..........the paragrapgh reads...

"And so (my ninth grade English teacher would not approve of this sentence started with a conjunction  ) it went:an unlikely partnership had produced a new kind of presidency. It was an arrangement that favored them both; by 1951, T and H ranked 3 and 5 on Gallup's list of most admired men. Together, the 2 presidents had pushed through the greatest transformation of the presidency in history A commission created to kill the New Deal instead helped save it, by making the structures it created more effective. In fact, the last night in office ... T was said to have observed proudly that he had reinvented the WH office in such a manner that no future president could make a mistake."

A little grandiose, but he was reminescing in his own house.

Jean

[Ella Gibbons]

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS, HOW INTERESTING THEY ARE TO READ!  And how timely!  In addition to the book, I have learned from you.

Gosh, we need to read and discuss political history in an election year, don't we?

Personally I was very amazed by the editors writing so much in the first chapter about HOOVER!  Going back in time that far without mentioning FDR at all.  When I look back to that era, I am a teenager writing letters to fellows overseas, the greatest war of all time was being fought.

And no one knew Harry Truman and no one remembered Hoover.  Just my own history.

But, of course, we all soon knew Truman, now thought of as one of our greatest.  How many times have you discussed the bombing of Japan with your friends?

And the Hoover Commission was born - a commission which "produced the greatest transformation of the presidency in history, a concentration of power that ultimately yielded the CIA, the National Security Coucil, the Council of Economic Advisors, the General Services Administration, a unified Defense Department, and much more."

Every president who followed would have reason to thank Truman and Hoover.  That's what the book says! 

Personally I think the presidency has become too powerful, just a personal opinion

[HaroldArnold]

Ella It is good to have you back as this afternoon and early evening I will be out of pocket principally at my work at the local National Historic Park Mission Espada site.  I'll check back in  probably a bit after 8:00 PM (Central)

[Ella Gibbons]

JEAN, we were posting at the same time and thinking along the same lines.   Thanks for your insights.

And a thank you to THREAD for that map.  You can preview what the FED owns in your own state, very interesting.  I'm very glad so much of the country is in "our" hands, "our" children's future, saved from developers.  Teddy Roosevelt comes to mind when I think of saving our forests, our streams, our land.

PEDLIN, I remember very well Truman firing MacArthur, it had never been done; our generals have always been put on pedestals, well, most of them.  And soon enough, one becomes a president!!!  

BELLEMARIE gave us examples of people turning on/off their presidents.  In what ways do we show our "people power?"  

Hi HAROLD!  

[mabel1015j]

FYI - Michael Beschloss is at the moment on Booktv/CSPAN2 talking about his books on the presidents. It is a live call-in show on from 12-3:00 EST.

He just made the point that until presidents get into the office they do not have all the facts about what's happening in the world and often have to readjust what they said as campaigners.

Going back to look at other things i had tagged as i read....in the intro they mention that Eisenhower instituted the presidential pension in 1957. That surprised me. I knew Congress had granted Mary Lincoln a special pension, but i assumed their would be a presidential pension at least by the 20th century.

I liked their comments about memoirs and how memories differ. One of the reasons we need to read more then one source about history.

On pg 21, ".....many people were blaming Hoover for the depression as though he caused it all by himself.....Roosevelt decided that he was smarter than Hoover in every way.....". I think R believed he was smarter than everyone, but was that one of his pluses? Would he have been able to cope with all that he did if he didn't have that enormous ego? I guess we have to thank his Mother for that. And we have Eleanor to thank for reigning him in on occasion!

Re the first part of the phrase, it is seldom that one person is responsible for any event. Presidents are easy targets because they are right there in front of us, but there are only a few things that a president can do all by themselves. Unfortunately most people have not learned enough about how the govt works to understand that. The opposition often talks as tho we have a dictatorship and the president should just speak and things get fixed.

Jean

[threadheadnet]

starting ~p 110: The Club Brokers a Cease-Fire: the authors describe the machinations that lead to Nixon's graceful concession just days after the election. Though Nixon did not pursue a popular vote recount, I thought the Republican Natl. Committee did ... a process involving 11 states and not ending until mid-1961. The only change, however, was Hawaii being moved to Kennedy's column, so Nixon was probably wise not to pursue the recount. Imagine all that the authors decided to omit!

[JoanP]

Thread - do you think the authors omitted such information because they didn't know about it - or because they didn't think it was important enough to mention? Or?

[threadheadnet]

Thread - do you think the authors omitted such information because they didn't know about it - or because they didn't think it was important enough to mention? Or?

The book's been criticized for omissions but I bet the authors made a conscious decision (with the help of editors, no doubt) to focus on what these Presidents actually did and their interactions with each other. For example, there's not much in the book, so far, about the spouses. BTW, Kati Marton's book, Hidden Power: Presidential Marriages that Shaped our Recent History, is a good read about First Ladies from Woodrow Wilson through George W. Bush administrations.

Kathleen

[JoanK]

I notice that the reading goes through Chapter 9 but the questions only go through Chapter 5. Did you just run out of room?

Chapter 5 is about where I am. I figured I'd talk abou Truman for a few days before I read on, so I wouldn't get confused.

I admit that I was afraid reading a political book so close to an election would make it hard not to fall into bitter political debates. But now I'm reading it, I see the opposite. While there are real important differences in party position on many issues, being the President is so multi-faceted that there are many commonalities. And we see presidents united or divided on things that have nothing to do with party. personality, experience, self-confifence. One simple thing is that some people want advice and to bring in others: some do not.

 

[Ella Gibbons]

You are all going so fast, but, of course, we must if we intend to only take a week on the first 9 chapters.  I could take a month on those alone.  How can we ignore such a towering figure as Eisenhower, who wasn't interested in the job of president at all.  He had been a world figure, was it a comedown to be USA president, no, no, no.  Just kidding.

Eisenhower - the former president whom President Kennedy liked the least and consulted the most. (p.103)

I'll put more questions up today.

[Ella Gibbons]

Just a note - "executive privilege" - aren't we all a bit suspicious when a president claims this privilege?  I thought you might be interested in the history of it - from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_privilege

"Justice Anthony Kennedy noted "Executive privilege is an extraordinary assertion of power 'not to be lightly invoked.' United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 7 (1953).
 
"Once executive privilege is asserted, coequal branches of the Government are set on a collision course. The Judiciary is forced into the difficult task of balancing the need for information in a judicial proceeding and the Executive’s Article II prerogatives. This inquiry places courts in the awkward position of evaluating the Executive’s claims of confidentiality and autonomy, and pushes to the fore difficult questions of separation of powers and checks and balances. These 'occasion for constitutional confrontation between the two branches' are likely to be avoided whenever possible. United States v. Nixon, supra, at 692."[9]"

[bellamarie]

Jean

Re the first part of the phrase, it is seldom that one person is responsible for any event. Presidents are easy targets because they are right there in front of us, but there are only a few things that a president can do all by themselves. Unfortunately most people have not learned enough about how the govt works to understand that. The opposition often talks as tho we have a dictatorship and the president should just speak and things get fixed.

I would have agreed with you maybe a decade ago on "most people have not learned enough about how the govt works to understand that."   Today,  I think the American people are very much aware of the workings of the govt and they have shown either their satisfaction or dissatisfaction by making the effort to balance the power by their voting.   Americans are aware that the president alone can not do the things he wants to accomplish in policy making. (Unless he exercises his executive privilege power) I am not especially one who cares much for "polls" but if you look at any poll its shows the American people's favorabilty toward congress is around maybe 20% or lower.

Ella, the most important way we "show our people power" is by casting a ballot.  Voting is our most strongest power we have because that is how the people running for election truly hear our voices.  IMO

I think I agree with Ella, I also think the presidency has too much power.  The men elected to the presidency are men with very large egos.  In reading this book I am realizing how so much alike these presidents are when it comes to wanting and needing power.  I'm not liking Eisenhower much, even given he was a war hero. 

They all seem to be filled with a lot of spit and vinegar.  lolol

Got to run having our end of the summer annual Labor Day cook-out/swim party!!!  Where did summer go? 

Ciao for now~

[HaroldArnold]

My final comment on Truman as President concludes with his interesting  talks with Eisenhower concerning the possibility of Ike becoming the Democratic Party Candidate for President in the 1952 election.  I had not previously realized that this possibility was open to Ike.   Truman certainly considered it a serious possibility.  Didn’t he even offer to join the ticket in the Vice Presidential slot?  Truman was bitterly disappointed when Ike committed to seek the  Republican nomination.  Hoover of course had been a principal recruiter of Ike as a Republican and was over joyed by his party's success.

1952 was the year Adlai Stevenson became the Democrat Party Nominee.  I was much drawn to him, but in the end I cast my vote for Ike.  In 1956 Stevenson once again won the Demo nomination, but again he was defeated by Ike.  That was the last time that an unsuccessful candidate was given a second opportunity by his party.   

[mabel1015j]

I read the Eisenhower chapter last night and just wanted to slap his head and say "grow up!" but then i remembered the first five years i worked for Dept of Army. The first commander i worked for was Gen Tom Kelly, you may remember him as the spokesperson for the Pentagon during the first Gulf War, Desert Storm. He had the same arrogance, bull-headedness, "don't challenge me, i'm the general/cmdr" that we see in Ike's response to HT. The fragile egos of who outranks who and "did you just disrespect me?" must have been taught to earlier generations of military officers. The three following cmdrs were more concerned with team work and very gracious at giving credit to their soldiers and civilians. By the way, when i read Thomas Flemings novel "Officer's Wives" i laughed thruout thinking of Tom Kelly. It's a good novel stereotyping that personality of some officers.

I thought it was a thoughtful gesture on HT's part to bring John from Korea and just a macho response on Ike's part. "We're tough, we're not sentimental, family comes after duty!" Now,  there are times that is true and we should be grateful for it, but John was not uniquely  important to the mission in Korea. Even if Ike disagreed w/ T's action, he could have appreciated the intent.

Bellmarie - we do see a lot of interest in govt these days, but those folks are still a small percentage of our population. When asked questions about govt operations, or who is vice-president, or which document such statements as "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" come from, or which branch of govt does what............it's appalling to listen to the answers. Of course, most K - 12 schools teach very little civics these days. I was a history professor for 16 years and the wide range of knowledge - or lack of - was very spotty. I spent a lot of time on the constitution so students could understand the rest of Amer History.

Jean

[pedln]

I'm not liking Eisenhower much, even given he was a war hero.  

 
I agree, Bellamarie.  It's interesting how he was so loved by the American public, but yet many who were closely associated with him described him as cold and unfeeling.

Just a note - "executive privilege" - aren't we all a bit suspicious when a president claims this privilege?

Ella, I don't know.  I am sympathetic to Eisenhower's use of it in connection with the Army/McCarthy hearings.  Am not sure I understand just what it is, other than the priviledge of not having to answer to subpoenas.  Does this include matters of security and confidentiality?

[HaroldArnold]

>the most important way we "show our people power" is by casting a ballot.  Voting is our most strongest power we have because that is how the people running for election truly hear our voices.  IMO

>I think I agree with Ella, I also think the presidency has too much power.  The men elected to the presidency are men with very large egos.  In reading this book I am realizing how so much alike these presidents are when it comes to wanting and needing power.  I'm not liking Eisenhower much, even given he was a war hero.

My problem with the first point is that people vote their emotions for what appears to best satisfy their immediate needs.  What is best for the long term gets little recognition.

Regarding Presidential Power I agree the Constitution makes our president a very strong, powerful executive leader.  In fact the framers in enumerating presidential powers pretty well listed the executive power of the 18th Century English King..  Stripped of  the royal preoperative of the English King the President still enjoys  the  principal executive powers including Commander in chief of the armed services, control  of foreign relations,  the right to approve or veto  new laws passed by Congress (subject to Congressional 2/3 majority override and possible later Supreme Court override).  Finally the president is the CEO of what might be the biggest and most complex business structure in the World, the United States Government.

Don’t get me wrong!  I am not suggesting the need for any major change.  The system requires a manager, and the constitution has provided for the President with the powers required to do his job. 

[Ella Gibbons]

JEAN, what courses in history or government, civics, whatever, are taught in our high schools?  I know very few, if any, young people today,  but I have heard that our history is not being taught or absorbed, sad to learn.  And yet, I have great faith in the future of the country and I know good leaders will emerge.  

HAROLD, I can't remember who I voted for in 1951.  I agree with BELLEMARIE and PEDLIN that Ike was a cold fellow, distant, and even our authors didn't warm too much to him.  They recall Ike removing Truman's picture from the public rooms, petty behaviors (p. 93) his romance overseas and his unbelievable ignorance of ordinary life (p.98).

Years ago while we were in Gettysburg, PA. we toured Ike's home; his last painting that he was working on is sitting in the sunroom facing his lovely farmyard.  However, the guide told us quite a number of things which disgusted my husband who had seen Ike as a war hero.  Ike had never chosen his own clothes, had never dressed himself - he had a valet at the farmhouse and had always had one in the service.  Remember he designed the battle jacket worn in WWII.

JEAN, yes, those egos of officers.  That you respect me!  Perhaps it is deserved by some though!

IKE will live on in history as one of our most decisive leaders of WWII.  Remember D-Day.  Ambrose (was his first name Stephen, a senior moment here) built a museum in New Orleans I believe in remembrance of those days.

[mabel1015j]

Unfortunately (depending on how much of a state's rights or home-rule person you are) there is no national standard about teaching history or civics. In NJ, all third graders have NJ history, in high school in ninth grade there is a semester of NJ history and a semester of civics, altho the content varies a great deal from district to district. Sophmores are to have a year of world culture, juniors a year of Am History - this applies to public schools, but we have a lot of private and charter schools in NJ.

Perhaps even sadder is that the majority of college students thruout the country take NO histry. Business majors, science, math and technical majors seldom are required to take any history courses.

Family coming to celebrate son's birthday..... Be back later.....jean

[JoanK]

" The men elected to the presidency are men with very large egos.  In reading this book I am realizing how so much alike these presidents are when it comes to wanting and needing power. "

I think you have to be that kind of person to WANT to be president, at least enough to keep doing what you have to do when you get it. But there are different ways of handling power when you have it: anyone who feels that to delegate power or be open to contrary opinions threatens their power is a problem.

[HaroldArnold]

LBJ was quite a character.  I first heard his name in the summer of 1948 .  I voted for the first time in July 1948 in the Texas Democratic Party primary.  LBK was on the ballot for the first time as a candidate for the U.S. Senate.  He was opposed by a popular former Texas Governor who got my vote.  That was the last time I voted against LBJ who won to begin his long Senate tenure ending Vice President and President.   

LBJ's senate career is detailed in the Manchester biography in the 2nd volume, “Master of the Senate.”  This volume details his successful decade of Senate leadership that led to theVice-  presidency.  His enemies view him as crooked as Nixon, but if that be true he had the skill to avoid getting caught.   

It was the quagmire of the Viet Nam war that marred his presidency.    Our book notes (p 274) that as a member of the Club, just before his death,  Johnson who previously had been of some help to Nixon, refused Nixon’s request he join him in a bi partisan denunciation of the NY Times Publication of the leaked Pentagon Papers.  Johnson died in Jan 1973