Author Topic: Tempest, The ~ William Shakespeare - PREDISCUSSION  (Read 41977 times)

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2012, 07:19:51 PM »
The Book Club Online is  the oldest  book club on the Internet, begun in 1996, open to everyone.  We offer cordial discussions of one book a month,  24/7 and  enjoy the company of readers from all over the world.  Everyone is welcome.

Please post below if you can join us on October 1.  :D


 October Book Club Online
The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play, was written in 1611 in the final period of his career.   The play is not really a comedy, but  combines elements of tragedy with comedy, a tragicomedy.

   Shakespeare set the play on an unnamed island in an unidentified age. In it, he  portrays an aging magician, Prospero,  who has been living in exile with his young daughter on a remote island for the past twelve years.

Over the course of a single day, Prospero uses his magic to whip up a tempest to shipwreck the men responsible for his banishment. He then proceeds to dazzle and dismay the survivors (and the audience) with his art as he orchestrates his triumphant return home where he plans to retire in peace.

For a lot of audiences and literary scholars, Prospero seems like a stand-in in for Shakespeare, who spent a lifetime dazzling audiences before retiring in 1611, shortly after The Tempest was completed. Its epilogue seems to be a final and fond farewell to the stage.

When Prospero (after giving up the art of magic he's spent a lifetime perfecting) appears alone before the audience he confesses, "Now my charms are all o'erthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own," we can't help but wonder of Shakespeare is speaking through this character here.
From multiple sources, including Shakespearean Criticism, Gale Cengage

Discussion Schedule
Act I October 1~7
Act II October 8~14
Act III October  15~21
Act IV October 22~28
Act V October 29~Nov.4

Relevant links:   BookTV: Hobson Woodward: A Brave Vessel

 
DLs: Barb,   JoanK , JoanP,  Marcie,  

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2012, 07:20:01 PM »
Jonathan, thank you for the recommendation of A BRAVE VESSEL. I've requested it from my public library.

Jonathan, Frybabe and Dana, I'm so glad that you'll be joining us.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2012, 08:10:53 PM »
Dana...so glad you found us - Folger edition in hand.  Welcome!

Barbara, I agree...linking The Tempest to the settlement - the attempted settlement of our country brings an awareness of Shakespeare's England at the time.  Imagine what that was like, waiting for word from the settlers who had ventured out for the New World!

Linda tells us that William Strachey's letter was sent to London right before Shakespeare wrote the Tempest in 1611.  Before writing The Tempest WS had read two pamphlets - defending the Virginia Company's venture - and also Strachey's account in his letter dated July 15, 1610.
Shakespeare would have seen this letter before it was printed - it was in circulation among those "in the know" -

Quote
"William Shakespeare had multiple connections to both the Virginia Company and William Strachey, and it is not at all surprising that he would have had access to Strachey's letter.  This letter saturates The Tempest, providing the basic scenario, many themes and images, and many details of plot and language. The first recorded performance of The Tempest was at Court on November 1, 1611, allowing us to date the play's composition with remarkable accuracy to the roughly one-year period between the fall of 1610 and the fall of 1611."
source:  http://shakespeareauthorship.com/tempest.html






JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 08:28:30 PM »
Other  facts to keep in mind...Shakespeare retired from the London stage in 1610 - and passed away at home in Stratford-upon Avon in 1616.  The man  was only 52 years old!

Although The Tempest is said by many to be his last play...there is the question of Henvry VIII - can anyone find anything on when he wrote this play - and when was it staged?  I think I remember that this is the play that was produced when the Globe theater burned down...Shakespeare was in Stratford at the time...

PatH

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10954
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2012, 09:57:20 PM »
I had an ancestor that was a sea captain between London and Virginia during the early 1600's, now we're entering HIS world...
Linda
That's exciting, do you have any details of his life?

As a devotee of Les Miserables, you will appreciate my story of my first exposure to it.  I was about ten or twelve I think, and got it out of the library.  I spent much of the weekend reading it nonstop, and then, when I had finished it, I saw somewhere in the fine print that it was ABRIDGED.  I was furious.  I missed some amusing details my father had described to me, and goodness knows what else, and I knew I probably wouldn't soon go on to read the complete text.  As far as I'm concerned, abridged books should have to have a big scarlet letter A for abridged on the front.  At least this made me very wary about checking for abridgements.

Frybabe

  • Posts: 10032
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2012, 01:31:40 AM »
I know what you mean PatH.

You reminded my that the version of The Three Musketeers I read was a children's version. I have yet to read the adult version, possibly because I've seen so many movie versions.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2012, 04:39:44 AM »
what a bummer to think you are reading the full story and then learn it was an abbreviated version -

The opposite there was a book I remember as a kid that I loved - it was 'what happened after' or something like that - it was filled with some of the childhood stories that you just did not want to end and this book continued with more - for a child it was fine and dandy to say and they lived happily ever after but you wanted to know how and what happened that made them live so happily - I don't remember any of the new endings but I do remember really enjoying that book.

There never seems to be too much of a good thing - I guess that is how we get all these sequels. I have never read nor have I yet cracked the book on The Tempest but I am already full of questions - is the Tempest a storm featured in the story or the name of a ship or the emotions of the characters or the experience they go through - I really want to wait and read the play fresh and new in October but learning of this connection to a failed venture at sea or at least a delay because of a storm at sea as the seed of Shakespeare's creativity I am now like a kid on a trip - are we there yet, how much longer, will it be hot, cold, will we know anyone when we get there, will we stay long, when will we eat... on and on.

A peek at history to find out what were some of the highlights happening in 1610 - Every year during Shakespeare's lifetime approximately 10,000 citizens migrate to London for higher wages, about 50 percent higher than in other parts of the country - Hudson sailed to Hudson Bay - Harriot is one of the first to observe Sun Spots - Ben Johnson's play The Alchemist is playing as is Shakespeare's play Cymbeline. Cervantes introduces the Second Part of Don Quixote - Caravaggio died at age 38 - El Greco is painting in Spain and John Donne is writing poetry - Wadham College, Oxford is founded as is Christ's College, Cambridge.

Common Law trumps Statuary Law in the Bonham Case so that Parliamentary Law cannot be against common right or reason. Out of this case we have in the U.S. Constitution judicial review - Civil war broke out in the Netherlands between orthodox and liberal Calvinists - The Ingrian War started over trying to put a Swedish Duke on the Russian Throne - Jamestown was abandoned in July - Champlain returned to France before Henry IV of France was assassinated in 1610, Louis XIII ascends to the French throne.

In 1611 The Tempest is performed and earlier in 1611 Shakespeare's Winter's Tale was performed - the King James version of the Bible is published - King James is the first of the Stuarts after a Tudor monarchy - mutiny leaves Hudson floundering and drifting on the Hudson Bay and he dies - Charter House School is established, one of the 9 original independent boarding schools, utilizing an old Carthusian Monastery -

Denmark, Norway and Sweden have war over taxes paid when Swedish ships sailed through Danish and Norwegian controlled sea straits and on Swedish controlled land used by the Lapps to herd reindeer that was within Norway - War was happening in Moldavia and another in Poland.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2012, 09:55:36 AM »
 Thank you, MARCIE. With those instructions I was able to read
the letter.  I wouldn't have thought it possible to write so
much about one storm, but is was so well done. As often happens
in a crisis, everyone showed their best natures, working and
supporting one another.
  My project for today...researching the Jamestown colony and it's last days.  Do you
suppose the same storm that ravaged the ship also hit Jamestown?  It could well
have been the finishing blow.
 
 
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

Art Hippy

  • Posts: 93
  • LINDA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2012, 07:14:20 PM »
PatH...
Yes, unabridged versions are the only way to go...my experienced with Les Miserables has always been the complete version.  Hugo descriptions, at times quite lengthy, of the Paris environs and political circumstances add true spirit to the story and reveal his great love of his city.  What a loss to miss it!  Did you ever go back and read the unabridged version?
Regarding Captain Varnell, my ancestor, I know a little bit more of his history...
His son was amongst those transported to the colonies from London in 1676 to avoid a death penalty for unknown reasons (possibly religious??).  Upon disembarcation from his father's own ship, he became responsible for the family's transfer to US soil. He settled in North Carolina.
...Servus sum? Schiavo suo? Ciao! :D

Lorac625

  • Posts: 159
  • Visiting the replica Parthenon in Nashville,TN,USA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2012, 11:17:55 PM »
i don't think I know how to post!

I'd like to join this group.  I wanted to do the last half of Great Expectectations,but forgot about it.  Between a bored teenager and many medications...  Hopefully since I will be in Latin I will remember this!  Are we going to get into The Tempest as the New World and all that, or just discuss the play?
Lorac 625

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2012, 11:32:29 PM »
Welcome, Lorac625. Your message came through fine. I'm so glad that you will be joining us.

From our experience in past discussions, we sometimes talk about the background of the author or the story in our "prediscussion" while we are waiting for the date (October 1) that the discussion of the book will start. Then we focus on the book. Of course, if anyone finds any information that might shed light on any detail in the book, we do that too as we talk about the book.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2012, 11:44:27 PM »
Hi Lorac625 - glad you found us - we have another new poster, Art Hippy and you make two - Welcome, we are over joyed to have you join us -

In October we will discuss the play but when we discuss any book, play, poem any material we find that relates comes into the discussion - we will be finding out as much as we can before we discuss the play about this time in history which includes this connection to the Americas - we will probably go a bit more into the life of Shakespeare especially, these late years when he wrote The Tempest and he was about to retire - We will want to know more of the times and the Globe Theater and and and - the discussion becomes as full as we want to make it

Again, as I shared I have not yet read the play although, I bet others joining the discussion have read the play - my gut tells me that since the King James Bible was only published the same year as this play and the other earlier English translations of the Bible were not very good and since Shakespeare's Uncle was drawn and quartered for being a follower of the Pope when the Tudors were pushing Anglicism I bet this play has few references to the Bible - could be wrong but my bet is on the Greek or Roman myths and so they may become a topic of a few posts - we shall see the conversations have a life of its own as we discuss far more than Plot, Structure, Setting, Delivery etc.

Looking forward to your posts - why not bookmark the page and then you can more easily find us.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2012, 09:52:43 AM »
Glad you found us again, Lorac - I see your name is Carol, backwards.  Do you prefer we call you Lorac in the discussion? :D  You are very welcome - pull up a chair - no need to stand down there on the floor with the groundlings!

Quote
"In October we will discuss the play but when we discuss any book, play, poem any material we find that relates comes into the discussion - we will be finding out as much as we can before we discuss the play about this time in history." Barbara


Barbara's post on the period during which The Tempest was written - and the mention of King James, who was monarch at the time the play was written, have  sparked a nerve - and forced me to unleash a number of questions that you may or may not find interesting...But if we are to discuss them at all, I think now is a good time to do it.  Let me go get my notes...and second cup of morning coffee first.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2012, 10:20:34 AM »
First some dates ~
 
~Elizabeth I died in 1603; James I took the throne that same year.
~Shakespeare wrote The Tempest in 1610 - not much disputed.
~Shakespeare retired to Stratford-upon-Avon in 1610. not much disputed though he returned to London on occasion.
~On June 29th 1613 the Globe Theatre was burnt to the ground and re-built six months later - Shakespeare would have no doubt been involved
~ The Globe Theatre burned down during the first, or one of the first performances of Henry VIII in 1613
~Shakespeare died in Stratford in April, 1616.

  When we speak of The Tempest as Shakespeare's last play, as most scholars do, things gets interesting -especially when considering the climate in London in 1610 when The Tempest was written and the date that Henry VIII was first staged.

Do you want to get into all this? Questions about who actually wrote Henry VIII - and when and the impact of a play on the two monarchs, Elizabeth, Henry's daughter - Henry who beheaded Elizabeth's mother...and James, whose mother was beheaded by Elizabeth herself.  It's really fascinating stuff, but not sure how much delving interests you.
I just thought I should bring up the fact that there are arguments that Henry VIII was  Shakespeare's last play.


BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2012, 01:38:38 PM »
JoanP others here may have a different curiosity - for me the idea that this was his last play really makes no difference - the history around Henry VIII sounds fascinating - but it sounds like it would be better appreciated while reading Henry VIII - I wonder if we should consider following this read with an ongoing Shakespeare discussion where we share from time to time not only background info of Shakespeare's life and the history of the times but plan on discussing a few plays a year  - seems to me over the years we have discussed a few of the plays and there could be a link in the heading to those archived discussions - bottom line I guess I am thinking it would be neat to follow this discussion in say February or March with our reading Henry VIII and tie all this background info together. Again, others here may have different ideas...
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Art Hippy

  • Posts: 93
  • LINDA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2012, 02:59:43 PM »
A February, March reading of Henry VIII with ITS related history sounds good to me!
I don't want to lose focus on The Tempest...smile.
That doesn't mean we can't touch on it, BUT, feel I can't delve into it without distracting myself.
...Servus sum? Schiavo suo? Ciao! :D

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8685
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2012, 08:32:27 PM »
Not remembering The Tempest well, this may not come up. But we may want to revisit the question of "Last Play" after or while we are reading tempest, if we find tones of a farewell in it.

(Of course, Shakespeare coulf have THOUGHT it would be his last play, and then changed his mind, or had it changed for him. As a tennis fan, I'm watching the US Open where a popular player -- Andy Roddick-- announced that it was his last tournament, perhaps thinking he might be playing his last match. But he keeps winning, so getting to play one more match.)

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2012, 08:35:01 AM »
OK, I do hear what you are saying the questions surrounding Henry VIII - when it was written and by whom.  Yes, let's put off that discussion until a later date.  Good thinking.  There are just two things to say (without going into detail)  before putting Henry VIII on hold.

1.  There are questions about WHEN Henry VIII was written - some say Elizabeth was still alive (she died in 1603) - which would make The Tempest the last play Shakespeare wrote.

2. There are real questions about WHO actually wrote Henry VIII - how much of it Shakespeare actually wrote.  Scholars who have studied the writing style of the play, conclude that John Fletcher, who collaborated with Shakespeare, whenever it was written -  was probably the author of almost half of the play - the latter half.

It seems safe to conclude that The Tempest was the last play that Shakespeare wrote himself - and that he intended it to be his last play before his retirement.
What I don't understand - is why did this wildly successful, talented man retire so early?  Did he feel his best years were behind him?  He was only 49 years old.  He died three years later at 52.

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2012, 09:33:06 AM »
  Hmm, I don't know, BARB.  If we have a discussion forcussing on one author, other favorite
authors might be proposed by their adherents. That could sort of get out of hand. I enjoy
many, many authors, but I don't want to make a discussion of one of them a permanent thing.

 Joan, when you consider that the average life expectancy in England in the 17th century was 35,
49 seems a reasonable retirement age.  That low average was, of course, due mostly to the high
rate of mortality in children, but even so another 14 years seems good.
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2012, 10:03:43 AM »
From As You Like It.

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players,
They have their exits and entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
Then, the whining schoolboy with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden, and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice
In fair round belly, with good capon lin'd,
With eyes severe, and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws, and modern instances,
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose, and pouch on side,
His youthful hose well sav'd, a world too wide,
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again towards childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2012, 10:49:24 AM »
Babi, I hadn't thought of that - 49 a reasonable retirement age at this time~

Barb, that's interesting. Shakespeare is  describing what he thinks of the 7th age of man - sounds like time to retire, doesn't it?
I just had to look up his age when he wrote As You Like it -  He was born in 1564.
Found this:

"1599, though, was a particularly awesome year for our favorite dramatist. Aside from penning As You Like It, he also whipped up a few other plays – Julius Caesar, Much Ado About Nothing, and Henry V. (Did we mention that Shakespeare's theater company, the Lord Chamberlain's men, also built the Globe Theater that year?) In other words, by the time As You Like It hit the Elizabethan stage, Shakespeare was at the height of his productivity and was a true master of his craft. (It was also around that time that he wrote what many consider to be his greatest achievement, Hamlet.) "

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2012, 10:59:52 AM »
Just to add to the mix about authorship, many have proposed that Shakespeare of Stratford-on-Avon was not the author of any of the works we think of as "Shakespeare's."

See the interesting article at http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2011/10/did-shakespeare-really-write-his-plays-a-few-theories-examined/

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2012, 11:42:43 AM »
Interesting the time when Shakespeare was his busiest is immediately after his son Hamnet at age 11 is buried in Stratford.

Hamnet is one of the twins, born after Susanna, the oldest daughter. Susanna was born 6 months after the marriage of William and Anne -

Hamnet was raised in his grandfather's house predominantly by his mother. There are no records that show that Hamnet Shakespeare ever attended a school although it was customary for a boy from Hamnet's background to have had an education.

Get This... Neither of Hamnet's sisters had an education and neither of them were able to read or write.

There were constant outbreaks of the  Bubonic Plague, (Black Death or the Black Plague), during Elizabethan times and in 1596 Hamnet contracted the deadly disease and died at the age of eleven. Shakespeare's son Hamnet was buried in Stratford on August 11, 1596.

Five years later in 1601 his father, John Shakespeare died and in 1607 his brother Edward died. There is much speculation as to how these deaths affected his writing - most scholars suggest Hamlet written immediately after the death of Hamnet is an expression of his grief. Also noted, all the comedies are written during these years.

There is no direct line to William Shakespeare - all grandchildren or great grandchildren born to his girls and their husbands or born to the children of the girls died in childhood.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Art Hippy

  • Posts: 93
  • LINDA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2012, 02:30:58 PM »
Since my major in college was Spanish, and not English (literature), aside from my own personal quest to read the classics, I really have done very little research into the background information of such classics.  Thus, this conversation, to me, is freshly fascinating!  A mystery in its own right!
I watched the excerpts and found them very revealing!  Authenticity ALWAYS has at least some residual footprints, regardless of how minute.  You've got me hooked on a bit of a quest now...
...Servus sum? Schiavo suo? Ciao! :D

nfarm

  • Posts: 109
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2012, 04:16:06 PM »
Can't wait to begin although I have no clue as to how all this will work but I am trying to figure it all ou and hope this registers me  :'( ??? ??? :D :D :D

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2012, 04:37:07 PM »
nfarm, you did it!  You are registered just fine - and you are WELCOME to this discussion of THE TEMPEST, which isn't due to begin until Oct. 1  You have time to brush off a copy and get to learn your way around.  We're just talking background information about "HIMSELF" - the Bard, as we make ourselves comfortable.  If you have any questions at all, just speak up and you will get more help than you need! :D

Barbara, I am quite surprised that Hamnet didn't go to school.  It seems that Shakespeare left the care - and education of the children up to his wife.  It has been assumed that he himself attended the very good school for boys in Stratford.  The question is, why didn't his son attend the same school...

Frybabe

  • Posts: 10032
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 04:51:48 PM »
Welcome, nfarm.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2012, 05:24:37 PM »
Glad you found us nfarm - it appears this is going to be a terrific group with you making the third new poster to not only this discussion but to Senior Learn - We shall look forward to your posts and to getting to know you - Getting to know all about you.  ::)  ;) If we are true to form we should have a wonderful time so as others have said, pull up a chair and your drink of choice and join the gathering...

JoanP My guess is just because there is no record that may not preclude he did not go to school - I read that many Tudor towns and villages had a parish school where the local vicar taught boys to read and write, because girls did not go to school they were not able to read or write. Which explains the two girls -

As to Hamnet I have read in Michael Wood's Shakespeare that there is evidence William Shakespeare was a secret Catholic and if so he may not have wanted his son educated in the local school and he may not have wanted his son exposed to the local Vicar, although, it sounds like Anne made the decisions about the children and the Grandfather could have been his early teacher -

About the time he died is when the boys went to Grammer school where they spoke only Latin. However, I do not think we can assume - all we know is there is no record of his attending school. The information said the girls could not read or write but it did not say that Hamnet could not read or write.

P.S. Just read, I did not know - Cervantes died on the same day in the same year as Shakespeare.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

marcie

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 7802
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 09:27:52 PM »
Welcome, nfarm! Let us know if you have any difficulty. We're glad to have you participate in this discussion of THE TEMPEST.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2012, 04:30:25 AM »
Goodness it appears suppositions abound - several sites say there is no information as to how Hamnet died - and one says it is only supposed he had contracted the Black Plague.

JoanP I bet you would have some inside as to what is considered the most researched account of William Shakespeare and his family... Also, attached as you are to the Folger Shakespeare Library and Theater have you seen or read all the plays - do you have access to lectures on the plays - please share with us some of what you experience because of your attachment to the Institute.

I thought I read a year or so ago on the BBC news that they had put to rest the claim that Shakespeare was not the author - do you think some of these sites that continue to explore this question are so in love with their theory they continue to leave for public review the question and research...

Been reading some about James I - interesting I read a few years ago the book about him getting together 54 men that was later reduced to 12 to translate and include in the King James Bible the stories that all 12 could agree on and those stories that were the least offensive. It appears he must have been known for  bringing people together - Forgot the name, I think Thur but a Frenchman asks James to be as concerned with European Religion that was still in the midst of Religious wars. James I and in Scotland he is James IV, was asked to unite or bring closer the National Religions/Governments of England, Scotland and France which are the three nations that James has deep ties. One bit I read says he had some success till the 30 Years War (1618–1648) blew it all apart.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Babi

  • Posts: 6732
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2012, 08:49:50 AM »
That makes sense to me, BARB. Burying oneself in work is how many people cope with a loss.
I had forgotten that Hamnet was a twin. Considering how vulnerable children of those times
were, it occurs to me that Hamnet may have always been the weaker twin, possibly too sickly
to attend a school. What puzzles me is how one child could have contracted the plague, but
the rest of the household did not.
 
"I go to books and to nature as a bee goes to the flower, for a nectar that I can make into my own honey."  John Burroughs

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2012, 09:38:21 AM »
Oho, don't get me going on James I and how he came to follow Elizabeth to the throne.  That's where it gets complicated - and we need to stick with The Tempest or we'll go far afield.  Let's just say that Elizabeth was the daughter of Henry VIII.  Henry had her mother, Anne Bolyn beheaded.  So how did Elizabeth feel about her father?  James was the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, who was  beheaded by Queen Elizabeth (with  cause.)  His relationship to Henry VIII is a bit more complicated - he was the great grandson of Henry VII, Henry VIII's father.

James was responsible for the King James translation of the Bible during his reign, (his reign began in 1603.)  I wonder whether Shakespeare ever read this translation of the Bible before his death in 1616.  It was published in 1611.

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2012, 09:47:58 AM »
Barbara - lots of questions on the Folger's view of the the authorship question for later... :D.

Babi - good point on Hamnet's death.  I don't think anyone suspected the Black Plague killed Hamnet and skipped over his two sisters.  Here's the Folger's response anyway - this the result of much study into the issue - and William Shakespeare's background.

 
"We don't really know how Shakespeare's young son Hamnet died. He had a twin sister named Judith, who lived to adulthood and married, but Hamnet died at the age of eleven and a half. Child mortality was high in the sixteenth century; there were no antibiotics and many childhood diseases might therefore prove fatal, such as scarlet fever, whooping cough, diphtheria, and even measles. He was buried on August 11, 1596."

palmtree

  • Posts: 411
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2012, 11:53:38 AM »
I've always loved "The Tempest," and will be happy to join the group.

BarbStAubrey

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 11350
  • Keep beauty alive...
    • Piled on Tables and Floors and Bureau Drawers
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2012, 12:30:51 PM »
palmtree - we are so glad you will be joining us - Welcome.

OK JoanP looks like there is more insight into Shakespeare and his writing that will make this an interesting read and conversation.

And Babi that does make sense - as contagious as this disease is you have to ask how could only one child contract it and die when no one else in the family is reported to be ill.

When they were not dying of disease and even simple illness, they were dying of poor diet, or contaminated water and then on top their answer to differences, there are no words to even think about the horrors. Even James, not only is his mother publicly killed but in addition, from childhood he experiences 4 murders, two of which were his successive guardians.

I can see views in politics are wrapped up in Religion since they were still at this time in history one and the same and how those with influence or wealth could gather others so that there is anything from a skirmish to a field battle as they fight for supremacy but, must everything so life and death. I guess we still do it - the only difference there are so many of us now that we are removed from the battle scenes where as in the seventeenth century with fewer people everything was very intimate including the life and limb battles over differences.

I do not get any impression that The Tempest is a historical play and so getting into all this history is really us only trying to have a glimpse of the times so that I am wondering more now about the average people. With so many moving to London and paintings from the time that include houses still did not seem to be the brick structures of a century later - I wonder how long it took to build a timber frame house - aha researching construction I found that Brickwork was developed in - yep our focus years - in 1610. However, I am imagining what we would call shanty towns springing up on the outskirts of town as folks prob ably built themselves crude structures - 10,000 folks a year moving to London requires a lot of living space - without public works what a mess especially in the rain...  
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JoanP

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 10394
  • Arlington, VA
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »
Oh good, palmtree!  This is going to be a great discussion, I can tell!  It sounds as if you are quite familiar with The Tempest . Knowing that it was his last play and that it is said to be autobiographical, I think we can consider the play with new eyes this time.
Welcome!  There are a few good seats left! Take your pick.

Barb, we know the roof of the Globe was thatched...which burned so quickly when a cannon was fired on stage during a production of Henry VIII.   That must have been a memorable evening!

Did you notice Branagh quoting The Tempest at the start and again at the end of the Olympics?  Can anyone find these quotes?

JudeS

  • Posts: 1162
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2012, 01:53:55 PM »
Wow!
I read the four page article and found it fascinating. Bermuda had no Inhabitants! The shipwrecked settlers built new ships.
This influenced Mr. S but also ,I think, Robert Louis Stevenson.
Having loved RLS's poems as a child I had never read his novels since they were known to me as "boy's books".
Making up for lost time , last year I started a project to read RLS and Jules Verne (another "boy's writer").
This letter by Strachey sounds like much of the material of Treasure Island...with Pirates added instead of the slackers who refused to help build the new boats.

But the fact that a colonial matter could effect Mr. S. That was a wonderful surprise.

Thanks to all who put the material on the board for all of us to enjoy.

Jonathan

  • Posts: 1697
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2012, 02:48:45 PM »
It's looking very promising, especially with all the new faces. Welcome all. We'll never get too many opinions about this poet and his works.

I liked JoanP's question: did Shakespeare ever read the new King James translation of the Bible? I doubt it, for several reasons. The first, I found in the link provided by Marcie (61) in which Malcolm X is quoted: 'Shakespeare was the top poet around. If he existed, why didn't King James use him?'

So Shakespeare could have been sore for not being asked. Besides Shakespeare himself wrote things which served many as a bible. I was reminded of that reading the 'all the world's a stage' quote posted by Barbara.

We are familiar with many of Shakespeare's sources, such as Plutarch, Froissart, and letters from Bermuda. He found many a fine plot in these sources. If he had read his bible, mightn't we be enjoying, for example, ADAM AND EVE, instead of ROMEO AND JULIET? JOB instead of KING LEAR?

JoanK

  • BooksDL
  • Posts: 8685
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2012, 03:25:31 PM »
NFARM, PALMTREE: WELCOME, WELCOME. Do tell us about yourselves.

I saw michael Woods' program on Shakespeare where he argues that S was from a Catholic family, and went, even taught in an illegal Catholic school. He was living at a time when religious persecution was very bad in England.

JudeS

  • Posts: 1162
Re: The Tempest by William Shakespeare
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2012, 05:39:17 PM »
Joan P
Re: Shakespeare and the King James Bible.
The KingJjames Bible was published in 1611. Therefore  Mr. S may have read it, but only in his retirement.

I have another question,
Why were so many of Shakespeare's plays made to take place in foreign lands and in different eras?

Any ideas? This is not a trick question and I have no idea what the answer could be.