Author Topic: Tempest, The ~ William Shakespeare ~ October Book Club Online (Read 64086 times)

JoanP · « **Reply #40 on:** October 02, 2012, 09:57:02 PM »

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October Book Club Online

The Tempest, Shakespeare's last play, was written in 1611 in the final period of his career. The play is not really a comedy, but combines elements of tragedy with comedy, a tragicomedy.

Shakespeare set the play on an unnamed island in an unidentified age. In it, he portrays an aging magician, Prospero, who has been living in exile with his young daughter on a remote island for the past twelve years.

Over the course of a single day, Prospero uses his magic to whip up a tempest to shipwreck the men responsible for his banishment. He then proceeds to dazzle and dismay the survivors (and the audience) with his art as he orchestrates his triumphant return home where he plans to retire in peace.

For a lot of audiences and literary scholars, Prospero seems like a stand-in in for Shakespeare, who spent a lifetime dazzling audiences before retiring in 1611, shortly after The Tempest was completed. Its epilogue seems to be a final and fond farewell to the stage.

When Prospero (after giving up the art of magic he's spent a lifetime perfecting) appears alone before the audience he confesses, "Now my charms are all o'erthrown, / And what strength I have's mine own," we can't help but wonder of Shakespeare is speaking through this character here. From multiple sources, including Shakespearean Criticism, Gale Cengage

Discussion Schedule

Act I	October 1~7
Act II	October 8~14
Act III	October 15~21
Act IV	October 22~28
Act V	October 29~Nov.4

Some Topics to Consider
Act I. Scene 1
1. Are you finding unfamiliar vocabulary and expressions a problem? How are you handling them? Can you cite a few specific examples?

2. What words did Shakespeare use to describe the tempest in the opening scene? If you have access to William Strachey's letter describing a similar storm at sea, did you note similar descriptions, similar vocabulary usage?

3. Can you think of a reason Shakespeare may have set the scene in the Italian city states and the Mediterranean? What would happen if both the duke of Milan and the king of Naples went down in the storm? What do we learn of the relationship between the royals and the mariners on board the ship? Did you find any of the characters in the opening scene at all likable?

Act I. Scene 2
1. Miranda seems aware of her father's power over nature when she asks him why he's raised the storm now. Does he give her an answer? Do you have any ideas? Do you think belief in myth, magic and the occult was widely accepted by Shakespeare's audience in the early 1600's?

2. Can you sympathize at all with Prospero's brother, Antonio, or do you think Prospero should have continued on as the Duke of Milan? How did Prospero lose control of the government? Does he seem to regret the time he spent bettering his mind?

3. Is Prospero holding Ariel and Caliban on the island as prisoners? Is Ariel male or female? Caliban - "not honored with a human shape." How do you see these two inhabitants of the island? Who would you say has a claim on this island? Anyone?

4. What had been Prospero's relationship with Caliban when he and Miranda first came to the island? Why does he now regard him as a "poisonous slave got by the devil himself?"

5. Caliban's mother: the "foul witch," Sycorax, born in Algiers. Do you think this will be significant? If she was truly a witch, his father, the devil himself, what does this make Caliban? Has he special powers too?

6. Why does Caliban wish the red plague on Prospero for teaching him his language? What does language have to do with their animosity towards one another?

7. Why does Prospero send Ariel back to the shipwreck, this time disguised as a sea nymph? Can anyone see him/her? Was his/her mission accomplished?
Did Prospero plan on Miranda falling in love with the Prince of Naples on first sight? Is this part of his magic? Does their romance sound like a fairy tale?

8. Do you believe in love at first sight? - "A beautiful face and body reflect the beauty of the spirit within." Do you agree with Shakespeare?

Relevant links:
The Tempest (Electronic Version) , BookTV: Hobson Woodard: A Brave Vessel ,
Translation of W. Strachey's long letter describing the shipwreck to the Excellent Woman,
Listen to Ralph Vaughan Williams' "Full Fathom Five"
Memorable Quotes from The Tempest - a list in Progress

DLs: JoanP, Marcie, Barb, JoanK , Babi

marcie · « **Reply #41 on:** October 02, 2012, 10:47:19 PM »

Our quotes page is at http://www.seniorlearn.org/bookclubs/tempest/tempestquotes.html

JoanP · « **Reply #42 on:** October 02, 2012, 10:58:09 PM »

Thanks, Marcie! You are faaast! The list is now in the heading - sure to grow as we turn the pages...

kidsal · « **Reply #43 on:** October 03, 2012, 02:18:55 AM »

Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human by Harold Bloom. Chapter on the Tempist outlines many of the sources Bloom believes Shakespeare gleened for his Tempest. How much Strachey when he attended the performance recognized from his letters.
Miranda wonders if her father why he raised the storm -- he doesn't answer. Believe he raised the storm to bring people for Miranda -- a husband.
Prospero lost control of his government because he was more interested in bettering his mind. Don't blame Antonio as he was doing all the work.
Ariel doesn't appear to be male or female even though he takes the shape of water nymphs. He was Sycorax's slave until he disobeyed her -- then she locked him in a tree for 12 years -- she died before 12 years was up.
Caliban does all the household chores -- thinks the island belongs to him because was given to him by his mother. Prospero took care of Caliban until he tried to rape Miranda -- then locked him up in a cave. Caliban's father the devil but he can't use Sycorax's powers.
Language: All Caliban can do is curse. Caliban afraid Prospero will conquer Setebos the god his mother worshiped.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:08:00 AM »

Wow how great - to have all the quotes in one place - Thanks JoanP and Marcie - Dana sure started us on something - this discussion is so exciting -

I started to read using the links to the letter - found the print to be a bit larger therefore, easier on the Word PDF - lots to read and still reading. So far the beginning chapters of The Brave Vessel sticks close to and pretty much copies the letter.

OK Kidsal - you found another who is saying as Woodard in The Brave Vessel - You share Professor Harold Bloom saying How much Strachey when he attended the performance recognized from his letters.

For another viewpoint Project Gutenberg has a copy of The Virgina Company 1606 - 1624 by Wesley Frank Craven - Copywrite©, 1957 Jamestown 350th Anniversary Historical Booklet Number 5 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28555/28555-h/28555-h.htm

Page 12 tells us about Admiral Newport's five round trips between England and Virginia, with "planters" and equipment, bringing back to England reports and what commerce possibilities and waterways he finds -

In January of 1609 Admiral Newport plans the largest venture England has ever seen - he meets with several men among the group is Richard Hakluyt, geographer noted for his political influence, his voluminous writings, and his persistent promotion of Elizabethan overseas expansion, especially the colonization of North America..

In Hakluyt's book The Literature of the Sea The Cambridge edition includes this tidbit

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It is to Richard Hakluyt that we are indebted for our knowledge of many matters that have been alluded to above. Shakespeare undoubtedly studied his pages. Scattered treatises and manuscript descriptions alone existed when Hakluyt set to work. He had long been amassing material, and his writings, as we have mentioned, began to appear in 1582, while the first edition of the Principall Navigations was published in 1589. The latter is the first great body of information we possess relating to the voyages of the sixteenth century.

On page 18 of The Virgina Company 1606 - 1624 there is this... the 1609 charter incorporated by the name of "The Treasurer and Company of Adventurers and Planters of the City of London, for the first Colony in Virginia." Sir Thomas Smith was designated treasurer... The adventurers, "or the major part of them which shall be present and assembled..." were empowered to make grants of land according to "the proportion of the adventurer, as to the special service, hazard, exploit, or merit of any person so to be recompensed, advanced, or rewarded."

The connection to Shakespeare is, among the 50 members of the Council, which the book names 15 is Henry, Earl of Southampton, Shakespeare's patron and Sir Dudley Digges, named by William Shakespeare as one of the two overseers of his will. It appears Shakespeare would have intimate knowledge of reports and the Excellent Lady's Letter that was known to be passed around to the investors.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #45 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:11:34 AM »

All this and off the top the value is yes, the description of the storm but more, the attitude toward and description of the American Indian, of which there are two aboard the storm tossed ship that found safety in Bermuda. Then later in The Brave Vessel, the attitude of the Virgina Company investors and the colonists towards the Indians is similar to the description in the play of Caliban.

AMICAH wonderful link http://www.extension.harvard.edu/open-learning-initiative/shakespeare-after-all-later-plays - SHAKESPEARE AFTER ALL; THE LATE PLAYS, HARVARD WITH MARJORIE GARBER - Professor Garber talks about the four elements that were an important part of the sixteenth and seventeenth century cultural viewpoint.

She goes on to suggest Ariel as Fire and Air and Caliban as Earth and Water - and how we think of earth and water as the base necessity to support life - society does seem to associate marginalized groups with the earth, earthlike seldom said in reverent tones.

Babi · « **Reply #46 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:23:51 AM »

I think Prospero had a hand (the magical one) in putting Miranda to sleep, JONATHAN. He
wanted to discuss some things with Ariel without Miranda hearing.

I really liked the boatswain, JOAN, and totally sympathized with his efforts to get those
royal idiots to go below and get out of the way!

JOANP, it's from Miranda's opening lines. "The sky,it seems, would pour down stinking pitch
but that the sea, mounting to th' welkin's cheek, dashes the fire out." The footnote explains
that the 'welkin's cheek' is the face of the sky.
Thinking about it, I would say that Shakespeare would not want to set the scene anywhere
belonging to England. After all, people did have a tendency to try to associate his characters
with actual living persons. Can you imagine the speculation as to whom the treacherous duke
of Milan and the opportunistic Kind of Naples actually represented?

JoanP · « **Reply #47 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:39:10 AM »

Good morning, Babi! We missed you yesterday...worried about the computer issues...thanks for looking up the context of the "welkin's cheek "...
So, "welkin" is "sky" - from the Old English, wolcen, weolcen, which meant "cloud."

Kidsal, you've brought up a number of good points for us to discuss today.

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Strachey when he attended the performance recognized from his letters. kidsal

Imagine how Strachey felt when/if he viewed Shakespeare's staging of the tempest, based on his description of the storm he had survived! He would have heard his own words, taken directly from the letters he had sent home!
Have you had a chance to read the letters - or Hobart Woodward's research into that whole episode? There are several links in the heading.

Now that we are getting into the play, I'm finding a contrast between Strachey himself and Shakespeare's character, Gonzalo. Did anyone else see that? Both men were level-headed in the face of mutiny. Babi, you liked the boatswain - he was doing his best to man the helm and save the crew in spite of battling egos aboard. I can see that. But it was Gonzalo who managed to intercede - I think we'll see more of this wise man.

Babi, I'm wondering what would it mean if the king and the duke both went down in the storm. Would Prospero have an opening to return as Duke? Is that why he brought on the tempest...was he trying to drown them all?

Quote

Miranda wonders if why her father raised the storm -- he doesn't answer.

Kidsal, you believe he did it to find a man for his daughter? Interesting.

JoanP · « **Reply #48 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:49:09 AM »

Isn't this a wonderful illustration? - the artist was 18th century George Romney. Miranda is concerned that her father is responsible for causing the tempest. she must know he has supernatural power over nature then? I'm wondering how accepting the people in Shakespeare's time were of magic, the mystical, the occult, devils, ghosts...etc. This is the early 17th century...

Dana · « **Reply #49 on:** October 03, 2012, 11:09:39 AM »

As I'm going to be away for most of October I have read all the play, and then I watched the BBC version. What interested me most about this rather uninspired but true to the original version, was that Ariel is depicted as gay, also attired in nothing but a loin cloth and gold paint. So I wondered if Shakespeare had intended that as a possibility. If you read the lines thru the play between Prospero and Ariel, I think he could have. I have to see how Ariel is portrayed in other versions now! There's another one on Netflix which is supposed to be true to the original also,so am looking forward to seeing it when I get back. (By the way, I thought the Ariel character could have been better played. He lacked charm somehow, not enough sparkle. He pouted well, which you would expect given the way Prospero treats him, but never dazzled.)

Lorac625 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 03, 2012, 01:04:40 PM »

I can't find anything on here like a discussion of the play,but I am in the hospital on IV Dilaudid and Benadryl,so I keep falling asleep. Nottyping to well either! Hope to be off thBenadryl at least by tomorrow.

Jonathan · « **Reply #51 on:** October 03, 2012, 01:42:52 PM »

Dana, I can't help feeling that you went straight to the reason for the 'uninspired' production. Depicting Ariel as gay would be just too distracting. The island is too wonderful a place for that. And how much of the wonder did William Strachey miss by listening only for his own lines?

Of course, Babi, Prospero put Miranda to sleep with his hypnotic powers. That would be child's play for someone who controls the elements, can free spirits and subjugate inferior beings, like Caliban. I'm surprised Sycorax didn't teach her boy any tricks. Was there a showdown between magician and witch?

A favorite line for me, are Prospero's words to his distraught daughter: "Tell your piteous heart there's no harm done."

Such power! Grander than any power he enjoyed as Duke of Milan, I would think.

I don't think Gonzalo is anything but a very clever man. He would rather see a good man hanged than lose his own life. And of course he expected Prospero to return some day and reap a reward.

Frybabe · « **Reply #52 on:** October 03, 2012, 01:59:39 PM »

Gosh, Lorac, sounds like you had a nasty reaction to something. Hope you are doing better real soon.

I think that since so many of us have read at least some of A Brave Vessel and other works regarding the time period in which The Tempest was written, that we haven't concentrated entirely on the play itself, by itself. I had hoped that we got most of that out of the way in the per-discussion. I do like all the research and background but hope it doesn't obscure the play itself.

I've finished reading Act I. Question: Did Prospero have foreknowledge of who was on the ship beforehand or is it by some whim of chance that the ship was carrying his brother et.al.?

JoanP · « **Reply #53 on:** October 03, 2012, 02:16:36 PM »

That's a good question, Fry. I'm wondering how Prospero would have known of the boating party. He doesn't seem to have contacts beyond this little island. This makes me wonder about his superhuman powers.

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"Such power! Grander than any power he enjoyed as Duke of Milan, I would think."Jonathan

Jonathan describes Prospero's ability to "control the elements, free spirits and subjugate inferior beings, like Caliban." That leads to another question- where did his powers come from? Did his study of the Liberal Arts lead him to what is referred to as "secret studies?" Can he also see into the future?

{{{Lorac}}} yes! We all hope you are feeling better tomorrow and come back to us real soon. No wonder you are having trouble staying awake. Do you have your copy of the play with you? Just in case you don't, I'll put a link to the play in the heading. When you don't know where we are in the discussion, just scoll to the top of the page to the heading...or ask questions here and someone will let you know.

Dana! You will be away for the MONTH of October! Heavens! Let's hope you'll be able to tune in on someone's computer now and then? We'll miss you. An interesting comment on Ariel's gender. Do you think Shakespeare may have been deliberately ambiguous in portraying him/her? How about a male Ariel, disguised as a female water nymph. Is there such a thing as a male water nymph?

Dana · « **Reply #54 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:08:14 PM »

Prospero does have magical powers learned in his "secret studies", and possesses a magic cloak and (presumably) his magic books--"he furnished me from mine own library with volumes which I prized above my dukedom." The ship came by the island by chance, but he learned about it (with his magic powers) and is using the opportunity to get his revenge on his enemies (but we don't yet know what kind of revenge he wants....except part of it involves Miranda and Ferdinand falling in love....)
"By accident most strange, bountiful Fortune, now my dear lady, hath mine enemies brought to this shore; and by my prescience (foreknowledge) I find my zenith (peak of good fortune) doth depend upon a most auspicious star, whose influence if now I court not, but omit, will ever after droop."

This reminds me of the bit in Julius Caesar, "There is a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries."

JoanK · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:13:59 PM »

LORAC: {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}. hOPE YOU ARE BETTER SOON.

"where did his powers come from? Did his study of the Liberal Arts lead him to what is referred to as "secret studies?""

I think that's the implication. he was too busy learning magic to pay attention to his job. Now that he's lost it, he wants it back. (Why, I have to wonder? he seems better off on the island. Or he could easily commendeer the ship by magic to take him back).

JoanK · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:16:06 PM »

The sex of Ariel: I think of Ariel as being like the Greek young boys -- like Eros, the cupid who shoots arrows of love.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2012, 06:22:35 PM »

I see a light around a gossamer Greek style pleated dress on a young woman with long golden hair. Regardless of any description in the play that is my image - I have a difficult time even if Ariel were a young boy to see how that matches with some of the timidity Ariel expresses.

Dana · « **Reply #58 on:** October 03, 2012, 08:17:08 PM »

Oh yes, I agree to a point, but having seen him gay is perfect really except he should dazzle--shiney, beautiful, golden and youthful. Cheeky as well as pouty and timid. Maybe really camp would do it.

kidsal · « **Reply #59 on:** October 04, 2012, 02:52:15 AM »

Lorac -- hope you are feeling better - at least have access to a computer. Dana -- sorry to hear you will be gone for most of the month --

JudeS · « **Reply #60 on:** October 04, 2012, 01:04:29 PM »

My questions , to myself, from the beginning of our discussion were :
Why is this play called a Comedy? Why is it # one in the Folio of Comedies? Why do some call it a Romantic Comedy and others a Tragicomedy?

My research up to this point is as follows (I have gleaned this material from so many sources that I am not even going to quote specific sources). Most of all , if others have pondered this question please add to what I am presenting.

Prospero is a magician who whips up a storm .The play is Whimsical, Magical, Dreamy and Hopeful at the end.(It ends with
Miranda saying:"O Brave new world, that has such people in it".)
Prospero is meant to represent Shakespeare and the Island, many say, is the Globe theatre itself. The Globe is the place that Shakespeare has created his storm and magic.

In 1600 Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake for his occult studies. Shakespeare makes sure that Prospero's magic is based on rationality and divinity rather than the occult which is symbolized by the witch Sycorax who worshipped the devil and was full of "earthy and abhorrent commands". She is unable to control Ariel because he is "too delicate"for her dark tasks."
Prospero's rational goodness allows him to control Ariel.
Prospero seeks to set things right by using his magic and Ariel is his servant.
During the Renaissance their was a theory that there is a Tripartite soul consisting of vegatative,, sensitive and rational spheres. In the play We have representing :Vegatative--Caliban, Sensitive--Ariel, Rational--Prospero.

Some say that Freud's divison of Id, Ego and Superego was derived from this tripartite.
I still haven't fnished searching for answers but I think finding those moments of humor (sometimes disguised as something else) will, by the end of the play, lead us to see it as a comedy ,which means that their must be a happy ending rather than a tragic one.

JoanP · « **Reply #61 on:** October 04, 2012, 01:41:42 PM »

A busy morning...in case you haven't noticed, we're gathering nominations for November's group discussion. Hopefully you can take a few minutes to look over the nominations in the Suggestion Box. Note that the nominations will remain open for a few more days before we vote. If there is something you would like to add please post in the Suggestion Box and we'll add it right away. Thanks!

Will be right back...am reading your interesting posts first.

JoanP · « **Reply #62 on:** October 04, 2012, 02:18:25 PM »

Dana, happy that you are still with us! I'd forgotten Prospero's magic cloak. I wonder how Shakespeare's audience responded to the magical elements in the play- remembering that alchemy was still prevalent, though fading. Does the audience still accept magic, devils, ghosts, etc as possible realities? Or are they viewing the play as a fairy tale? What do you think?
Hypnotizing Miranda was one thing, but turning the young male servant into a female would require really special powers.

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In 1600 Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake for his occult studies. Shakespeare makes sure that Prospero's magic is based on rationality and divinity rather than the occult which is symbolized by the witch Sycorax who worshipped the devil and was full of "earthy and abhorrent commands". She is unable to control Ariel because he is "too delicate"for her dark tasks."

This is really helpful, Jude and adds to the way Shakespeare's magic was viewed at the time.

I combed through Scene 2 of the first act, looking for any indication of Ariel's gender. Pronouns/adjectives describing Ariel are male: "to thy strong bidding task, Ariel and all his qualities..." etc.

But then Prospero tells him to "make thyself a nymph of the sea." I thought that was strange. I thought Prospero had the power to do that...but can Ariel make himself into a nymph? Prospero also tells him that he will be invisible to all but the two of them. Hmm... That would require magic, wouldn't it?

So how does Ariel appear on the stage? Keep in mind that the cast would be all male. Men - and young boys too. I can see Ariel as the boy that JoanK describes...
But the sea nymph? Ferdinand hears a voice singing the "sweet air" as he describes the singing of "Full Fathom Five" that that lures him to the island.
I'm more inclined to picture this nymph as Barbara describes, rather than a young boy dressed as a maid. MAYBE the audience never sees Ariel...remember only Prospero can see him as the nymph. Ferdinand only follows the sweet voice.

Dana, I can't see where the sexual orientation of Ariel is relevant here. I'm going to guess BBC production is probably one of those modern adaptations to appeal to modern audiences. I saw a production of Midsummer's Night's Dream long ago, at Christmas time it was - with my four young sons...All the dancing fairies were portrayed as gay men, dressed in white jockey shorts ... I don't want to think about that again. But it was some director's decision, who thought the old play needed updating.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #63 on:** October 04, 2012, 02:25:45 PM »

Jude you too - I was trying to figure out why Comedy - my thought with no research that it had to do with at the time there are only two types of plays - either Tragic, which I have read that it is tragic because the hero was destined for what happens and so, does that mean with no predestination to a bad ending the only other choice is Comedy?

I am finding some satire in the dialog but I wonder if the meaning of Comedy has changed since Aristotle - We think of Comedy as humorous and maybe when these categories were defined Comedy was not tied to the ridiculous or outward corrupt that challenges us to laugh. I will really be curious and anxious to find out what you uncover Jude.

I am remembering visiting several old homes in England, especially in Norwich and Leeds where remodeling of sixteenth century homes was happening and they would find all manner of corn dollies and other amulets hidden under stairs and in the rafters - I've been reading several books on the history of Germany. One book goes into the way the villagers accepted the Reformation. It was very slow process because the old traditions were practiced and incorporated with their belief and celebrations of luck and magic in the Catholic Church where as, the various Protestant sects were about reading the word and separating from the traditions of keeping bad luck at bay.

There is a book called Religion and the Decline of Magic - I thought this buzz on the book was an eye opener...

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Astrology, witchcraft, magical healing, divination, ancient prophecies, ghosts, and fairies were taken very seriously by people at all social and economic levels in sixteenth- and seventeenth-century England. Helplessness in the face of disease and human disaster helped to perpetuate this belief in magic and the supernatural. As Keith Thomas shows, England during these years resembled in many ways today's "underdeveloped areas." The English population was exceedingly liable to pain, sickness, and premature death; many were illiterate; epidemics such as the bubonic plague plowed through English towns, at times cutting the number of London's inhabitants by a sixth; fire was a constant threat; the food supply was precarious; and for most diseases there was no effective medical remedy.

In this fascinating and detailed book, Keith Thomas shows how magic, like the medieval Church, offered an explanation for misfortune and a means of redress in times of adversity. The supernatural thus had its own practical utility in daily life. Some forms of magic were challenged by the Protestant Reformation, but only with the increased search for scientific explanation of the universe did the English people begin to abandon their recourse to the supernatural.

Science and technology have made us less vulnerable to some of the hazards which confronted the people of the past. Yet Religion and the Decline of Magic concludes that "if magic is defined as the employment of ineffective techniques to allay anxiety when effective ones are not available, then we must recognize that no society will ever be free from it."

Jonathan · « **Reply #64 on:** October 04, 2012, 02:53:14 PM »

Wow, Jude, what a pandora's box of suggestive possibilities in your post. Tragedy? Comedy? Romance? I believe Shakespeare would laugh at the thought. I'm convinced he was trying his hand at a mystery. Sexual, cosmological, existential mystery. No doubt Freud found it very fruitful soil for his budding ideas. Perhaps Prospero himself is the unholy trinity of earth, air and rationality. Ariel and Caliban are aspects of his own personality.

Did Prospero have foreknowledge? If he did, it came to late. Could he never see what his brother was up to, before he was put out to sea? He talks about his secret thoughts. But he also mentions, 'good fortune', 'providence divine', and 'auspicious stars'. Clearly, there is a lot of chance in his life.

It's interesting to hear that Miranda talks about 'a brave new world' later in the play. That's curious. She has already talked about 'a brave vessel'. And Prosper refers to 'my brave spirit'. I,2, 206. Do the annotations say anything about that. Surely there's no mention of Shakespeare's limited vocabulary.

JoanK · « **Reply #65 on:** October 04, 2012, 03:02:11 PM »

JoanP · « **Reply #66 on:** October 04, 2012, 03:04:47 PM »

Oh wow, wow, wow - thank you, Barbara~ such valuable information - puts us right into the Globe theater and helps us view Shakespeare's magic much as the audience would.

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Why is this play called a Comedy? Why do some call it a Romantic Comedy and others a Tragicomedy? Jude

A good question to keep in mind as we get further involved in the play. Surely we have seen examples of humor already in the opening scene.

I read something this morning in Hobson Woodward's "A Brave Vessel." He writes of an article published in 1610-11 of "the Virginia Company's triumpant account of the survival of its colonial governor. The company called the loss and return of the Sea Venture' survivor a "tragical comedy." He adds that in the hands of England's preeminent playwright, it would become just that."

Maybe this bit of information that the survival of the shipwrecked was described as a "tragical comedy" in 1610 helps. OR maybe it adds another question...why did the Virginia Company think of it as a tragi-comedy?

ps. In the First Folio, first collection of Shakespeare's plays, The Tempest was included with Comedies. I think "comedy" was defined differently back in Shakespeare's time - not what we think of as comedy. I think that's where to go to continue your search.

Jonathan - you always bring a smile. Where did the term "brave vessel" appear? I know it's the name of Hobson Woodward's book - he took it right from the first act of The Tempest? I must have read right over it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Dana · « **Reply #67 on:** October 04, 2012, 04:59:31 PM »

There's a very nice summary of the meanings of "comedy" in wikipedia. very different in the past from now. Worth a read.

I didn't know what to make of the play at first reading. However I've decided to call it a fantasy entertainment.
His last play, a real crowd pleaser because its so topical to the time and because of the special effects,and the monsters, nymphs and spirits,and the humourous scenes and a happy ending. I think he went out with a bang.

Interestingly, JoanP, the BBC version with the gay Ariel is a very straightforward traditional production, not at all modern. That is really my point. If it had been modern I wouldn't have been so interested in the depiction. I think it really does add a depth to the character of Ariel.

Babi · « **Reply #68 on:** October 04, 2012, 07:55:28 PM »

Really enjoyed your post, JUDE. I hadn't seen that particular 'tripartite soul' before.
And I very much like the idea that the island represents the Globe Theatre, and Shakespeare
is the magician who whips up 'storm and magic'.

Is Prospero really turning a male Ariel into a female, JOANP? It seems to me Ariel is
almost a non-material being, without gender. He can take any form he, or Prospero, desires.
The use of 'his' in referring to him may simply be the fall-back we all use when the
gender is non-specific. As in, 'Anyone would do his best in such a situation."
(Gay men in white jockey shorts as the fairies in 'Midsummer Night' Dream'? I shudder
to think! This is a classic people have been taking their children to see for generations.)

I suspect that a 'comedy' was anything that did not end in tragedy. The old masks
portraying drama only had the two; no in-between.

JoanP · « **Reply #69 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:07:58 AM »

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I suspect that a 'comedy' was anything that did not end in tragedy. The old masks
portraying drama only had the two; no in-between.

Babi, that's probably a simple rule of thumb...Maybe that will help Jude?

Here's more on the characteristics of Shakespeare's "Comedies":

•Comedy through language: Shakespeare communicated his comedy through language and his comedy plays are peppered with clever word play, metaphors and insults.

•Love: The theme of love is prevalent in every Shakespeare comedy. Often, we are presented with sets of lovers who, through the course of the play, overcome the obstacles in their relationship and unite.

•Complex plots: The plotline of a Shakespeare comedy contains more twists and turns than his tragedies and histories. Although the plots are convoluted, they do follow similar patterns. For example, the climax of the play always occurs in the third act and the final scene has a celebratory feel when the lovers finally declare their love for each other.

•Mistaken identities: The plot is often driven by mistaken identity. Sometimes this is an intentional part of a villain’s plot, as in Much Ado About Nothing when Don John tricks Claudio into believing that his fiance has been unfaithful through mistaken identity. Characters also play scenes in disguise and it is not uncommon for female characters to disguise themselves as male characters.

http://shakespeare.about.com/od/thecomedies/a/Shakespeare_Comedy.htm

Babi · « **Reply #70 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:16:02 AM »

Excellent summary of the characteristics of Shakespeare's comedies, JOAN. I have read far enough to find that we have most of those characteristics already. Word play is everywhere. Two characters appear to be for the purpose of broad comedy, which of course includes insults and metaphors. We have a pair of lovers in Act I, so that's well in train. And I fully
expect a celebratory ending.

JoanP · « **Reply #71 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:24:28 AM »

Good morning, Babi!
I too can see how The Tempest was classified as a comedy. Not sure why some call it a tragi-comedy yet, though.

In some of Shakespeare's comedy, there's real slapstick, easy to identify as "comedy." So far, I'm not seeing that here. The humor is subtle in Scene 2 when Prospero tells Miranda how they came to be on this island. (Funny she's never asked...) He tells her that her father was the Duke of Milan -

"Sir, are you not my father?"
"Thy mother, a piece of virtue
She said thou wast my daughter."

Miranda asks why now...why cause the storm now? I'm wondering that too. Some suggested it's because Prospero feels it is time to find a mate for Miranda...other than Caliban.

He has Ariel lure Ferdinand to the island and allows them to fall in love - immediately. I guess I don't understand this. Isn't Ferdinand the son of the King of Naples? Hasn't Prospero described this king - Alonso, as his "enemy"? Why then would he want his daughter to marry his enemy's son? Does this make sense to you? And how would this work - would he send her back to Naples with Ferdinand - after the "celebratory ending?" Will they stay here in this New World and live happily ever after?

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #72 on:** October 05, 2012, 09:34:58 AM »

Ah the difference in a few centuries at least for Western women. - Why arrange to marry the son of thine enemy - the old saying keep your enemies close - and how much closer than by marriage - also, marriage was not typically because of love for a full two centuries after the time of Shakespeare.

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12th-century Europe: Marriage is good for loving...someone else—Upper-class marriages are often arranged before the couple has met. Aristocrats believe love is incompatible with marriage and can flourish only in adultery.

   14th-century Europe: It takes a village—Ordinary people can't choose whom to marry either. The lord of one Black Forest manor decrees in 1344 that all his unmarried tenants—including widows and widowers—marry spouses of his choosing. Elsewhere, peasants wishing to pick a partner must pay a fee.

   16th-century Europe: Love's a bore—Any man in love with his wife must be so dull that no one else could love him, writes the French essayist Montaigne.

   1690s U.S.: Virginia wasn't always for lovers—Passionate love between husband and wife is considered unseemly: One Virginia colonist describes a woman he knows as "more fond of her husband perhaps than the politeness of the day allows." Protestant ministers warn spouses against loving each other too much, or using endearing nicknames that will undermine husbandly authority.

   18th-century Europe: Love gains ground—In England and in the salons of Enlightenment thinkers, married love is gaining credibility. Ladies' debating societies declare that while loveless marriages are regrettable, women must consider money when choosing a partner.

Here is the entire article... http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/marriage-history

JudeS · « **Reply #73 on:** October 05, 2012, 12:13:37 PM »

here is another Historical nugget that might help us gain insight into the time of Shakespeare and this play specifically:

Italy, in Shakespeare's time was not a single country but a series of city states, of which Milan in the North and Naples in the South were two of the most prominent. In the 16th century, however, Milan was under the control first of France and then of Spain, and by the time of The Tempest was written , the Neopolitan Dynasty of the Argonese family had been displaced by the Spanish Governors.
The dominant family in Milan in the Renaissance were the Sforzas, and their palace, the Castello Sforza is one of the cities tourist sites till today.
Perhaps Prospero is envisaged as a member of this family.
Perhaps we have two families joined together if Miranda and Fernando marry. He the son of the King of Naples while Miranda is the daughter of Prospero who was the Right Duke of Milan.

JoanK · « **Reply #74 on:** October 05, 2012, 05:22:44 PM »

Maybe it's simple. Prospero doesn't have a son, but maybe he wants the Dukedom to continue in his line. A perfect solution for him: he doesn't have to do the boring work of ruling, but he can pass the position on through his son-in-law (the heir) and grandchildren.

Never mind that the young lovers are related. That wasn't the barrier to marraige then that it would be now.

Jonathan · « **Reply #75 on:** October 05, 2012, 05:48:46 PM »

These research nuggets on the times, on history, politics, drama, romance, and marriage customs are very helpful in enjoying the play.

BarbStAubrey · « **Reply #76 on:** October 05, 2012, 05:59:12 PM »

Interesting because a look into the history of Naples also shows at this time it is under Spanish control

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The kingdom continued to be a focus of dispute between France and Spain for the next several decades, but French efforts to gain control of it became feebler as the decades went on, and Spanish control was never genuinely endangered. The French finally abandoned their claims to the kingdom by the Treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis in 1559. With the Treaty of London (1557) the new territory of "Stato dei Presidi" (State of Presidi) was born and was governed directly by Spain, as part of the Kingdom of Naples.

After the War of the Spanish Succession in the early 18th century, possession of the kingdom again changed hands.

And so we have both Naples and Milan under Spanish control which prompted me to look at the relationship between England and Spain in 1610 - voilà we may have found a clue as to what Shakespeare may be alluding.

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John Digby - King James I sent Digby to Madrid as his ambassador to Spain during the early 1610s, and Digby was a leading figure in the unsuccessful Spanish Match, the effort to marry Prince Charles to the Infanta Maria Anna of Spain. Digby was made the scapegoat, recalled and ordered to reside on his estates. Charles after his accession offered Digby his favour if he would admit his fault : Digby, always a stubborn and hot-tempered man, refused. Charles, infuriated, impeached him and sent him to the Tower of London;...

JoanP · « **Reply #77 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:16:35 PM »

Jonathan - how many times have we attended a production of the Tempest without having any idea of what was going on politically. i know that Shakespeare drew from current events and accounts of real people...but never had an idea of who they were. Now we are beginning to understand some of the tension on the stage. Thanks, Jude - and Barbara . Undoubedly Shakespeare's audience was well aware of what was going on with Digby.

And the plot thickens. I just read this in Hobart Woodward's book...A Brave Vessel. The king of Naples, Alfonso, had married a daughter of the Duke of Milan and abdicated in favor of his son Ferdinand. it wasn't clear when this happened, before or after the shipwreck. Joank, i'll agree with what you said...right up until you said that Miranda and Ferdinand were related. How so?

By the way, Jonathan, you asked if there were any footnotes on "the brave vessel' Miranda referred to at the opening of Scene 2 - I checked the Folger Edition - and the only note footnote said that 'brave' = 'splendid.'

JoanP · « **Reply #78 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:22:05 PM »

A question about the Duke and his brother Antonio... did you blame him for taking over the governance of Milan - as his brother was off in dreamland, letting affairs of state slide? i admit feeling sympathy for this brother - until he set his brother and little three year old niece adrift in the sea without a mast or sails. He was leaving them for dead, wasn't he? What kind of a brother was this?

nfarm · « **Reply #79 on:** October 05, 2012, 08:36:15 PM »

Quote from: JoanP on October 04, 2012, 02:18:25 PM

Dana, happy that you are still with us! I'd forgotten Prospero's magic cloak. I wonder how Shakespeare's audience responded to the magical elements in the play- remembering that alchemy was still prevalent, though fading. Does the audience still accept magic, devils, ghosts, etc as possible realities? Or are they viewing the play as a fairy tale? What do you think?
Hypnotizing Miranda was one thing, but turning the young male servant into a female would require really special powers.

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In 1600 Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake for his occult studies. Shakespeare makes sure that Prospero's magic is based on rationality and divinity rather than the occult which is symbolized by the witch Sycorax who worshipped the devil and was full of "earthy and abhorrent commands". She is unable to control Ariel because he is "too delicate"for her dark tasks."

This is really helpful, Jude and adds to the way Shakespeare's magic was viewed at the time. I thought the BBC production was very very difficult to understand -they seemed to be almost mumbling at times

I combed through Scene 2 of the first act, looking for any indication of Ariel's gender. Pronouns/adjectives describing Ariel are male: "to thy strong bidding task, Ariel and all his qualities..." etc.

But then Prospero tells him to "make thyself a nymph of the sea." I thought that was strange. I thought Prospero had the power to do that...but can Ariel make himself into a nymph? Prospero also tells him that he will be invisible to all but the two of them. Hmm... That would require magic, wouldn't it?

So how does Ariel appear on the stage? Keep in mind that the cast would be all male. Men - and young boys too. I can see Ariel as the boy that JoanK describes...
But the sea nymph? Ferdinand hears a voice singing the "sweet air" as he describes the singing of "Full Fathom Five" that that lures him to the island.
I'm more inclined to picture this nymph as Barbara describes, rather than a young boy dressed as a maid. MAYBE the audience never sees Ariel...remember only Prospero can see him as the nymph. Ferdinand only follows the sweet voice.

Dana, I can't see where the sexual orientation of Ariel is relevant here. I'm going to guess BBC production is probably one of those modern adaptations to appeal to modern audiences. I saw a production of Midsummer's Night's Dream long ago, at Christmas time it was - with my four young sons...All the dancing fairies were portrayed as gay men, dressed in white jockey shorts ... I don't want to think about that again. But it was some director's decision, who thought the old play needed updating.

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