Author Topic: Women's Issues  (Read 392185 times)

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1240 on: March 01, 2014, 09:59:07 AM »
That of course if why I became a quaker. I liked the fact that they are doers.. and that your behavior is up to you and your inner light. and we affirm and only do things in the meeting house if all agree. None of that voting rules stuff.. Buddist strike me as something of the same.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1241 on: March 01, 2014, 11:00:27 AM »
Yes, that is the way it strikes me, too, Steph.
One thing I think of as something of a surprise is this:  when I was a child and did the old fashioned Christian thing of Sunday School, church, the church family and community warm fuzzy feeling thing and the sense of goodness and belonging, with God being Love and children being safe, I think, although it really never came up, but I think I sort of felt in the recesses of my mind behind all of this, that if I were an agnostic, which I now am, that I would feel free to "sin" and be a bad person.
Well, in my church community, we were raised to love all souls, no matter what or who they were, and not to judge.  We were most especially cautioned that Jesus said it was a sin to judge.  Now I feel the Fundamentalists have ruined all of that aspect of Christianity with their constant judging and condemning and outright hating.
But to my great astonishment, now that I am indeed an agnostic (there may be a Creator!  But we cannot possibly describe such or personalize such or know such, much less think the ME is all important!), I find my total thoughts and emotions run to the fact that I am a member of this species, the human race, as we call it, and that I owe it to my entire species to be the very best person I can be and to be of infinite help to each and every other member of this species, beginning with those of my own blood, sensibly, I think, as I cannot possibly extend myself to the entire population out there on the skin of this planet.
In short, I believe I am a truly better person as an agnostic than ever I was as a Christian!  Who knew!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1242 on: March 01, 2014, 03:31:51 PM »
I think most organized religions have two sides - the spiritual wrapped up in ceremony, prayer that can involve silence, meditation and contemplation all which touches some inner core of our being and then there is the political side that includes the rules and regs established to enable members to stay 'good' within, what their society determined was 'good' and to assist members into mindful spiritual behavior.

And, because there are 'members' just as in a family or any small group but especially, as the group becomes larger politics, control, power enter the picture - Either a group believes as Aristotle that punishment is how to control or as Aquinas who suggests love, as in putting honey on the carrot that is showing the group how well they can blend, lead and serve, which is determined by our need to be loved. If we are 'good' and if we can make others be 'good' then we believe we are more loveable within the group.

I see this enacted in families - I see differences in my own children and the basic philosophy they used as parents - one expected the highest application of their boys talents to go for the brass ring in sports and academics developing their ability to think through the best behavior - misbehavior was not the issue, it was 'what were you thinking - where was your brain' - the church they chose was an intellectual approach to God - while the other child, as a parent saw sports as a tool to develop skills and attitude but essentially the children were to figure out their life on their terms and learn how to adjust after making a choice that did not work out - when they were learning how to behave as youngsters, they were never scolded without being kissed on the head - the aspect of life they were urged to excel in was being the best brothers to each other and to making friends and they were brought up in a traditional Anglican church with an emphasis on ceremony and bible stories.

And yes, I put it down to sibling rivalry, they each comment, not accepting or understanding each other's parenting thinking their's is better - ah so and is it any different among some clergy that judge who is doing it right or the best and is it any different among members of churches who become more concerned with how right their fellow members are behaving - it is as if we are all co-dependent - unless you act as I understand and approve I cannot be right, which means I may not be loved by those in the congregation as well as, the biggie, God may not love me.  

Because bottom line that is what it is all about - if I think, then I am loved - if I am a good brother and friend, I am loved - if I act as the group in the church suggest, I am loved - if I follow the rules and regs of the church or the government, I am loved and do not face being ostracized which in a judicial society means jail.

We can as Aristotle, who did not perceive God as the compassionate, he believes people are basically out for themselves and need to be punished into compliance or as Aquinas, when he was re-writing Aristotle given the message of Jesus that we can cajole good behavior with love appealing to their inner disposition for the common good and to address their fears.  

Both attitudes seem to be alive and well and so the differences in how to be loveable are played out in just about every aspect of life, within the church and between church groups. I must admit when I became fearful for my children's ability to learn how to be loveable, Aristotle had my vote till they were older and punishment seemed over the top - but today, I realize how often I instinctively look at a punishment solution before I can see the humanity within someone who has hurt me or others.

As to a relationship with God, my best friend believes in, God will know her by her acts of Good Will where as my childhood was a training in God gave us everything including our ability to see where acts of Good Will are needed therefor, our relationship is based in a ceremony of adoration and an inner finding through contemplation, neither for my friend are the 'doing' she places as paramount to our purpose here on earth.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

JeanneP

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1243 on: March 01, 2014, 03:32:26 PM »
I live right bye a new building for a "Quaker Meeting house" would really like to see what happens in their meeting. I met some when they had a yard sale last summer , Should have mentioned that. Now a Pentecostal one bought the land next to me to build a church. They were very excited to know my name was Pentecost.  They sold for lack of funds. I was glad in away. A man from India bought the 20 acres as he owners the business west of it..

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1244 on: March 01, 2014, 11:26:13 PM »
For those of you who at any time have stopped in at "The Story of Civilization", we're in the middle if the "Reformation." I asked the question "has any institution ever created as much violence as religion has?" I just have no concern for organized religion any more. I am sick of hearing people say "Thank you god," or "god was with him, " when something good has happened, and every time i talk to the tv saying "Does that mean god didn't care about the people who had bad things happen to them?" It just infuriates me. I don't understand their rationalization. I wish someone could expain it to me.

I watched "Nixon" and "W" movies today. They could be very scary to a (small d) democrat. Both of those guys were so needy, which is what motivated them to try to be president. Bush said his becoming pres was "a divine plan"!!! So many people have used that as an excuse for whatever they wanted to justify. That's one of the reasons i have become an agonistic in my old age.

By the way, Paul Sorvino was fabulous as Kissinger in the Nixon movie. I can't believe he didn't get an Oscar nomination for it. His voice and accent were spot on.


Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1245 on: March 02, 2014, 10:14:37 AM »
Jeanne,, their are many types of quakers. I am a Philadelphia Quaker, we have no ministers, etc no preaching.The meeting house is a dedicated place of silence and contemplation. If you feel impelled, you can stand and speak., Many do every single week and many never say anything. Other than Viet Nam, I am in the silent ones..You learn how to rely on yourself,, look within and realize what and how you must act to remain true to the principles.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1246 on: March 02, 2014, 01:34:34 PM »
I too think this public thanking God for every good fortune is over the top...however, if God is everything, (I am not sure those who are publicly thanking God see God as a power since they usually say 'him') - then, if there is a major force that exploded with the big bang many consider that force God -

There were many figures throughout history who not only lived a spiritual life but also, influenced others to improve their spiritual life - the one in the western hemisphere that got the biggest press is Jesus - so much so that those who followed the ways of Jesus over many centuries embroidered the 'cult' to embrace their familiar culture till we have folks believing their version was set in stone those 2000+ years ago  - so that today, their concept of God is wrapped up in the Jesus 'cult' that includes the Bible telling his story and the added ceremonies and beliefs that became part of their belief system. All that to say who knows which version of God they are thanking - my gut says the one wrapped up in the story of Jesus - and interesting they seldom thank God for painful experiences. 

Our families way of coping with this phenomenon is - in our brain or thought pattern we substitute instantly the word God for Goodness -  The old serenity prayer comes in handy - there are too many of those who have adapted this habit to change - we can either let it get to us or find away around it and smile.

Others all have their opinion and that is fine - for me I prefer to think of God as a power much like the electricity that runs through out homes - when we need it we plug in - for some things like my Frig it is always plugged in - this power does not control good or bad but I can use the spiritual texts and ceremonies as plugging in a lamp that illuminates or like plugging in the furnace keeps me warm. I find these spiritual texts and ceremonies at times enlighten me, helps me dig deeper, is a guide for living with others and at times, probably it's the familiarity, brings me comfort.

I've been fascinated with and read the history of all aspects of both the eastern and western Church, especially as it relates to the history of Europe and Western Asia.

My high school classes taught that during the years when there is no history of Jesus and given where Paul preached that Jesus visited the east resulting in the adoption of contemplative practices and the establishment of the contemplative orders. True or not, there is a bit of similarity within all religions suggesting, there is a need that religion satisfies.

We all have a piece of our brain that wants to repeat what feels good - that need runs the gamete and there really are 12 step meetings for those who obsess in their religious practices - if we can be annoyed with the drunk and the drug addict who do not get treatment I guess we can also be annoyed with the public verbal display of their God causing their good fortune  ;)  Come to think of it the Greeks and Romans had their Gods controlling everything.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1247 on: March 03, 2014, 08:43:37 AM »
Actually I was always interested in the Greeks, who seem to have a certain familial relationship with their gods. It was as if they lived right down the street. An interesting take on how to worship.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1248 on: March 03, 2014, 11:09:25 AM »
The ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Persians, the Sumerians and Egyptians, all had many gods and attributed to them many human attributes, both good and bad.  And many super powers men wished they had!  Reminds me totally of our Super Heroes in comic books!
Yep, men have always fashioned their gods after themselves.  That is where the claim that God made man in His Image came from!  Fanciful, hopeful thinking.  Hubris, I call it!
Most fascinating to me are the many, many things the early Christians stole from the traditional items of worship of the peoples they came to designate as "pagans."  The Greek god Dionysis, for instance.  He changed water into wine.  In the worship of him, people ate bread and wine in commemoration of his body and blood!  Oh, the worship of all of the many gods was borrowed from, but most especially Dionysis and Mithra.  I can only guess that the reason more Christians do not question this is that they have not read a word about it!  Amazing!
Speaking of which, I read recently that quite a number of young Mormons are suddenly questioning the claim of The Book of Mormon that our Native American tribes are all descended from the lost and condemned tribe of Israel.  Seems these young Mormons have been reading on line and/or studying in Science classes that the DNA shows these people could not have come from the Middle East at all, but from Asia.  Closest in kin to the Mongolians.  And these kids are beginning to figure, hey, if the book that is perfect and perfectly true has THAT wrong, what else might not be true?

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1249 on: March 04, 2014, 08:41:42 AM »
Maybe the young Mormons will begin to look at the leaves of gold in the earth part of their religion and begin to think it through.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1250 on: March 04, 2014, 10:05:39 AM »
The golden panels which contained the Book of Mormon has always reminded me of the stone tablets with the ten commandments.
So odd that Joseph Smith had to be unseen behind a screen while translating them, and then had to rebury them (why?) and no one but he could ever see or touch them.
I could not experience, the very first time I read of this (back in 1961, I remember it well!) or even today, anything but the greatest skepticism.  It reeks of a snake oil type con job.
If Joseph Smith had been a holy man and if he had shared those golden panels, it would not seem quite so blatant.  But with 27 (or more) wives, and some of them only teenagers, with two being but 14, and his whole history and violent death, I cannot for the life of me figure out how he got to be a prophet and get such a multitude of people to buy into this "new and true" religion.
I studied it thoroughly when a first cousin who was close and dear to me moved out to Montana and was converted by the community she found there.  I think of it as needing desperately to be part of and accepted by your surrounding neighborhood.
I read every book about Mormonism and Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and the war with the United States and the walking numbers with handcarts clear out to Utah and so on and on.  Every book in the Montgomery County Maryland libraries, and then later in the Fairfax County Virginia libraries.  Bought some.  My cousin gifted me a Book of Mormon, which I still have.
So I have cheered them on in their painful trek out to Zion, and wept over the Mountain Meadow Massacre.  I visited their shrine here, dubbed Disneyland Castle, which was open to the public before its cleansing and dedication.  The temple, that is.  Gee, Chip, who will be 50 this month, was still a kid in school back then.  David and I took him out for the day to give him the experience.
I just don't get it.  But a thing is a thing is a thing.  And above all, people need to believe and belong, and get promised reward at the end of grappling with the hardships of a lifetime.

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1251 on: March 04, 2014, 01:14:12 PM »
This arrived on my FB page from the Alice Paul Institute this morning. Gloria Steinem's  brief assessment of where the women's movement is today. Months ago some of you asked if the Equal Rights Amendment was dead, read the response in the comments section.

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2014/02/27/gloria-steinem-why-our-revolution-has-just-begun/

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1252 on: March 05, 2014, 08:51:15 AM »
 MaryPage,, Sometimes I do wonder if somehow we are related.. I became quite obsessed with Mormon.. Ihad a good friend in college, who was Mormon and I got interested . Like you, I read and read and studied and since I am also a genealogist, I was inSalt Lake years ago for several research visits. I think it is the closeness. don't see why or how they believe what they do, but I do see the strong ties between the families and the joy they get in the closeness. Not something I could begin to believe is true.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1253 on: March 05, 2014, 10:01:33 AM »
Yes, Steph, I do not do genealogy, but this cousin works at it almost full time, with myriad trips to Salt Lake.  Everyone in our huge extended family loves her and we all profess to not understand her at all, at all, and everyone shudders and then just laughs a bit over the fact she has baptised our staunch Episcopalian and Church of England forebearers.  We confess to having a pretty good picture in our minds of what their reaction would be were they alive to express themselves as vehemently as once they did!

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1254 on: March 05, 2014, 03:50:53 PM »
Back about 20 years ago now I had a business link that brought me to Utah where I met several women who were the daughters of a Morman man with more than one wife and then, since it was supposed to be illegal, each wife lived in a separate home - all three women, two who were friends and knew each other's story, all were ironic in their assessment of their situation growing up - how as young children life was all roses till the Dad married another women and then 'want' was at their doorstep - not only the want of a Dad but the want of adequate food and clothes and the want of a mom who became silent, dull and somewhat removed for anything but keeping busy. All this haunted these women and some of their siblings - seems they all came from families of a minimum of 4 and one was among 8.  And so I learned that scrubbed look is more often the work of a woman lost to herself, whose main task was to please a man as her expression of God's Love and when left in the brambles to scrub the sinks and floors.

My other brush with a Mormon couple was in the 1960s - a more raciest family I never met - to say that when living in Kentucky as blacks were laying on the downtown sidewalks and streets in front of certain stores, while the police silently picking them up and putting them on buses and onlookers so silent you could hear a pin drop it was surreal - in spite of this background I still say they were the most raciest folks I ever met. Not just blacks. In order to keep my kids from playing with them - I know... but I did not want my children exposed to that kind of thinking or the language used to describe others - I insisted they could only go down as far as the third house away from our house - the Mormon family lived down the other end of the street but more, he worked in the same department with my husband and was a part of the neighborhood carpool - I still shake my head in amazement over that whole experience.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1255 on: March 05, 2014, 07:52:55 PM »
Tomorrow night, Thursday March 6,  on MSNBC at nine o'clock EST Rachel Maddow is showing a brand new documentary that should make history.  It is to show the truth that George Bush wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11;  that it was his main ambition.  This is a documentary laying out all of the facts with witnesses, and not a hate piece.

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1256 on: March 05, 2014, 08:51:17 PM »
I'll be watching, MaryPage.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1257 on: March 05, 2014, 09:21:25 PM »
There was a book about this I thought - but it is a story I remember - they were going to grab Iraqi oil and make a killing on producing and trading arms.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1258 on: March 06, 2014, 05:58:24 AM »
Well obviously I have not seen the documentary, nor do I know any of the people or facts associated with it, but from the teasers Maddow and others have been putting out this week, I do not get the impression that is the theme.
My impression is that they had a vain, over the top vision of the strength and grandeur of this nation, our USA,  and felt it would be a piece of cake to go in and conquer a Middle Eastern nation and topple its leader and government.  So Saddam was the chosen target and the invasion was on, with no plan whatsoever for the aftermath.  No sense of setting up a governmental entity to take the place of the one there already.
Their main belief seems to have been that it would be a good and noble thing to go forth and create countries just like ours with Democracy and Christianity and make the whole world a better place.
Missionary zeal and hubris.
And Colin Powell is one of those who testifies to the fact that they spoke of toppling Saddam immediately upon George Bush being elected and taking over the office of President;  in other words, long before 9/11/2001.  There are others, as well, who remember this being the case.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1259 on: March 06, 2014, 08:42:15 AM »
I always thought that George was showing Daddy, that he was braver and stronger, etc. What a silly man he is..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

kidsal

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1260 on: March 07, 2014, 04:15:09 AM »
OIL, OIL, OIL

They planned secretly involving the major oil companies on how to take over Iraq's oil industry.   Found out that their oil industry was in such poor shape - held together by string and tape that it took ten years to bring it up to modern standards.  They made few plans on how to govern the country once we invaded which is why it turned out to be such a mess.  Guarded the  Oil Ministry building while letting looters destroy the Museum and Library.  Was listening to a Senate hearing today on Foreign Affairs.  Oil/gas governs the  foreign policy of the entire world.  

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1261 on: March 07, 2014, 08:25:47 AM »
Barbara was right, and I was wrong.  I kind of sort of sometimes got a whiff of the sense that Steph had, that is to say, that it had all to do with the father/son relationship and he could go one better.
But it seems that may have only been an additional nudge for George W.
And the ideology that I feel rules this bunch of blindered human beings was no doubt in play, but not the chief stimulant.
I feel kind of stupid and that I should have known better.  For simply decades and decades now, I have been admonishing my family and friends in every instance to "Follow The Money."
And I forgot that here.
Oh well, same old, same old.
And in the meantime, we invaded a sovereign nation for no reason whatsoever.  No legitimate cause.  And left it in ruins and at civil war, killing and severely wounding thousands of our own children in the service of their country.  Noble cause?  Absolutely not so!

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1262 on: March 07, 2014, 09:09:32 AM »
I think that Iraq wins the "Stupid war" rule with flying colors. We had absolutely no right to be there. Why oh why do we think we must be the policeman of the world.. and that democracy is the only way to go.. Our dominant males are just flat out stupid.
Stephanie and assorted corgi

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1263 on: March 07, 2014, 11:01:56 AM »
I assumed it was always about the oil.  There were no surprises really for us - just the fact that there was finally documentation.  Unfortunately, we had to see and hear that vile evil (anagrams - interesting) man who was the vice-president at the time.  (I don't even like to say or write his name.)
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1264 on: March 07, 2014, 03:39:44 PM »
John Stewart asked "why is anyone asking this man's advise? (About present day events) He's been wrong on everything and he ended up shooting an old man in the face!?!"

My addition to that is this is a man who got something like six exemptions from being drafted, but in every governmental position he was in, he voted for, or advised for going to war!!! What a hypocrite! And that's the nicest word of many i could label him. I just think he's beyond words. I don't understand how he has the chutzpah to say one word about sending others into war.  Which i also think is true about all the war-hawks in Washington today who have NEVER been in the military but are bashing Obama for being cautious and deliberate in his decision making.

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1265 on: March 07, 2014, 08:44:13 PM »
Bravo!

I agree with and second your every word.

Steph

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1266 on: March 08, 2014, 08:41:17 AM »
Yes, I am willing to listen to Bob Dole and John McCain, but that is about it on the republican side. That evil horrid man is terrifying with his words on what a great person he is.. But Bush is the one who gave him power.. sad..
Stephanie and assorted corgi

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1267 on: March 27, 2014, 10:27:59 AM »
Well, I am missing Barbara and Steph and wondering where Jean has disappeared to.  Here I am, dying to yell and scream about this week's arguments re contraception before the Supreme Court, and no one to talk to!
June will eventually arrive, and it will all be down to Justice Kennedy.
4 justices all for women
4 justices all against women
and Justice Kennedy.  I am putting my nickel on Kennedy being pro women and we win this round!
How 'bout Your nickel?

jane

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1268 on: March 27, 2014, 10:48:04 AM »
I'm afraid to wager even a nickel on what they will decide.   >:(

After their, to me, wrong decision on political funding being free speech, those people scare me!

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1269 on: March 27, 2014, 11:16:39 AM »
I've totally written off H.L. as a store to patronize. 
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1270 on: March 27, 2014, 01:27:52 PM »
If you don't want to provide full insurance to all the needs of your employees - get out of business ownership! I'm sure there are other things they have to do as business owners that they don't like, but are not willing to give up the big bucks for. Huuumm, religious principle vs money!?!

 I want to know if they fund insurance for Viagra - do i even need to ask? It opens the door for way too many other dust-ups! What about medical marijuana? And, of course, all those areas that others brought up like blood transfusions and vaccinations.

Jane - i'm feeling nostalgic for the days when we really could depend on the SC to right the wrongs FOR THE COUNTRY!

From the "books into movies" site where the Morning Joe Show was mentioned by MaryPage and others, i responded to the discussion:
Since i don't sleep very well i'm seldom up to watch Morning Joe, but the few times i've seen it i've been appalled at how the guys run over Mika. I asked a friend who watches if that always happens and she replied "pretty much." Last night on the Daily Show Samantha Bee did a funny bit about the show and she ran through a long list of "boys" who come on to comment. Am i misconstruing this machoism? How do you see it?

Hope you are all warm and cozy, looks like our weekend is going to be dreary and rainy - good time to read.

Jean

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1271 on: March 27, 2014, 02:20:35 PM »
Oh Jean!  Didn't you KNOW?  The Congress put Viagra as a must be covered into all health insurances policies the very minute it came out!
It is SO popular with our old white males!  That is why there are so many ads for it!

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1272 on: March 27, 2014, 03:54:56 PM »
Jean, I think it was last year, HL wouldn't carry "holiday" items for Jewish holidays.  There was a big outcry, and they belatedly decided to do so.  This is not a good company.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1273 on: March 27, 2014, 05:20:27 PM »
So many are becoming caught in their own value system so that buyers and sellers alike are sorting themselves out because of their most often religious beliefs and their intolerance  - I am thinking the habits not broken about how women are viewed would have us crossing off so many places of business we would have to be like a pioneer self sufficient - that said HL seems to be one of the only ones left that sell craft supplies - for me it is easy to boycott them since I never shop for that kind of product any longer but I wonder about all the grade school children and their parents who are into expressing themselves with crafts.

I was amazed to hear how Jimmy Carter and Rosalynn left the church they have been so tied to for generations because of the churches intolerance to women and gays. When i saw the interview he did with Charlie Rose it did my heart good and put a bigger platform under my feet since I stopped supporting the Catholic Church where I am still tied to much of the theology, individual prayer life and to the exploration of much of the history but what is coming out of Rome, even with this new Pope is intolerance towards women using ancient history and new biology to justify their words and actions. Plus, Rome and many Bishops have never owned up and addressed their role in sexual abuse - they sound just like every guy who is ever caught more concerned with themselves, their reputation even to wanting forgiveness from their victim (sicko) but who are never as aware and concerned for their victim.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1274 on: March 27, 2014, 05:27:43 PM »
Has anyone noted that 5 of the Supreme's are Catholic - I am sorry I cannot see how your upbringing does not affect your viewpoint - even going to all the classes in the world you are still the product of your upbringing and see things from the viewpoint of your experience - I think Sotomayor this time is seeing the issues through her gender before her religious background - did we not read that 95% of all catholic women in the US and Europe use contraception pills or devices.
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

MaryPage

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1275 on: March 27, 2014, 06:06:13 PM »
I have to tell you a funny story about that very subject.  I mean, Gals, we have to laugh sometimes.
Picture this.  I was fresh out of 2 years in a Catholic school run by cloistered nuns just for girls.  You talk about sheltered and uninformed!
Was brand new married and innocent as all get out.  The conversation was lively, and everyone joined in at the sewing circle I had just been invited to in our neighborhood.  In those days, if women did not have at least 1 night a week to get together without the men and children, they went nuts.  This was pre TV and we were all poor as church mice.
Then the gal sitting next to me told an uproarious story about her mother-in-law coming to visit and finding her diaphragm on the side of the bathroom sink, where she had forgotten it.  (We only had one bathroom;  remember those days?).  We all laughed, but mine was timid.  When I had a chance, I whispered in Jean's ear:  "I thought you were Catholic.  So how can you use a diaphragm?"
She spoke right up without whispering, and I almost fell out of my chair:  "Oh, MaryPage!  I wouldn't DREAM of telling the priest!"
By the way, it took me 3 children in fast succession, and then I was a convert.  There is a world of men and a world of women, and never the twain shall meet.

BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1276 on: March 27, 2014, 06:13:36 PM »
Amazing is how most spokesmen for the Catholic Church want to completely forget and ignore the commission on Birth Control - it was overwhelming approved of with a majority of Bishops and Cardinals except of a few in the curia who used their political know how to squash along with Pope Paul who took over Vatican II when Pope John died and he did not want it brought public to be discussed during the conclave. Any doubts read both

Turning Point: The Inside Story of the Papal Birth Control Commission and How Humanae Vitae Changed the Life of Patty Crowley and the Future of the Church by Robert McClory  

What Happened at Vatican II by Father John W. O'Malley
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe

maryz

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1277 on: March 27, 2014, 06:27:19 PM »
Barb, craft supplies are readily available at Michael's - actually probably older than HL - and a goodly amount at WalMart, Target, K-Mart, etc.  I'm not into crafting either, but I do check for some things there.  We have a new Michael's in our immediate area, so I have options.
"When someone you love dies, you never quite get over it.  You just learn how to go on without them. But always keep them safely tucked in your heart."

mabel1015j

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1278 on: March 27, 2014, 08:22:10 PM »
"Come on over to our house!!!"

Never in my 36 yrs of living in the Phila area have i seen a tv ad for A. C . Moore,.........just 10 minutes ago there was one! A looonngg one! Isn't capitalism wonderful!?! "You're mad at HL? Let us take advantage of that, we'll be happy to have your business, and we won't fight over ACA!"

I have never been in a HL store and obviously never will be. I think they have blown their plan to open stores in the northeast. They had just begun. I think there is now ONE within driving distance of me. But w/in a mile i have ACMoore, Michaels and Joanns, too much competition to be so narrow-minded as a business owner.

My list gets longer of places i will never shop in - Walmart, Chick Filet, H L, there are probably more, just not on my mind.  Interestingly, as i hear about these narrow minded owners i begin to hear about good ones - Costco, etc. and fortunately, i'm not fond of shopping, so it's not a great hindrance.

I was being facetious in the viagra comment! Of course i know that all those guys are making sure there buddy Bob Dole can get his viagra (that also is tongue-in-cheek.)  ;D

Jean




BarbStAubrey

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Re: Women's Issues
« Reply #1279 on: March 27, 2014, 10:26:29 PM »
Had not heard of A.C.Moore so it must be craft stores in your part of the country - and yes, forgot we do have a Michaela.

Wow look what I found as an E-Book online - not the Turning Point but The politics of Sex and Religion which is bringing us up-to-date on the outdated talk by Bishops wanting to remove contraceptive aids from Obamacare - the book is about "How the people of God, not the pope, changed the Catholic Church's teaching on birth control. A history of the papal birth control commission of the 1960s and its aftermath narrated by a man who was there, Time magazine's correspondent at Vatican II."

http://www.smashwords.com/extreader/read/151118/1/the-politics-of-sex-and-religion

http://www.robertblairkaiser.com/biography/index.html

I learned something that I had no clue - there is "canonical doctrine of reception, broadly stated, asserts that for a law or rule to be an effective guide for the believing community it must be accepted by that community." In the first pages of the E-book there is a link to this document filled with the minutia explaining in essence canon law must be accepted by the laity not just a proclamation by the hierarchy.  hmmm

 
“A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.” ~ Goethe